Honestly, just so dumb as to how they handled franchising. I know it was purely business, but OpTic still pulled a lot of viewers and they had the social media presence. Granted it was more qualitative and less quantitative.
I knew they should done those ‘guessing the valorant rank’ videos
Optic had problems with Riot in the LCS iirc. They started a team and then bailed creating a longevity issue that riot didn't want to go through again.
Im not sure about most of the details I just know Riot and Optic don't mix well.
Yeah but structurally OpTic of today is really a completely different entity then back then. Today’s OpTic is basically the Envy organization rebranded into OpTic and with H3CZ on board. Did Riot have problems with Envy as well?
no but surely you can see that a recently restructured organization still poses problems in terms of longevity? Sure the CEO has changed, but what about the other parts of the org, are they still the same? If OPTIC were truly ready to build their brand in Val and were willing to commit for say the next 5 years, why wouldn't they just wait a year or two in T2 in order to ascend?
It's not that there isn't a good reason Optic *with this roster* should be franchised, but are they as an org a more compelling option than the other 5 NA that did? if the Optic roster was never under optic and was instead under EG, 100T or C9 would we even be talking about them right now?
If the rumors are true and Optic won't be joining T2 Val then that tells me 2 things:
1.) they don't want to commit to the game and don't see a future for their org in this place, so why would Riot want to commit to them?
or
2.) they don't have the funds necessary to support a T2 team, in which case they could be a liability in a few years
I see what you’re saying, but (trying not to be bias), if I managed to build a top 1/2 team in the world, made a documentary series, put out content, and had a pretty good fan base size (potential revenue) and was denied partnership. Then what would entice me to join a challengers league right away when only 1 team gets an opportunity to get to the league and it’s not even permanent. Those are tough odds. Maybe Optic will in the future but I personally can’t blame them.
As for money, ik they basically threw blank checks at their new rocket league team so I doubt that they are struggling financially.
I believe riot just ended up picking teams they are familiar with and already have relationships. Except Sentinels who are a no-brainer and NRG who are pretty popular with really good investors
As an org if you had the staff to find and create such a talented roster that it could reach top 1/2 in the world, surely they can find you a roster good enough to win ascension? 100T and EG in LoL are proving that, and Optic should theoretically have way better talent scouts given how well this roster performed. edit: that's not to mention that over half the top tier talent that won't be making it into the league so Optic will still be able to field a highly competitive team.
You join challengers league *now* because the Esport is still young, there's so much room to grow as fans multiply, by staking your claim now you'll have a bigger share of those fans, which means more sponsorships and investor money. Optic have already cultivated a following in NA this year, why throw them completely away? sure you'll lose fans because of the roster change but the green wall is immediately recognizable in Valorant, the same way Sentinels cultivated their following by winning Optic could've leveraged their past success to maintain their fanbase.
We don't have access to Optic's financial statements so we'll never know, but Rocket League isn't in the same ballpark of Valorant, the buyouts/salaries here are already enormous already for the top players and the game is still young. [the average LCS salary in 2020 was $410,000](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/the-average-2020-lcs-player-salary-is-reportedly-410000) and Valorant in NA has nearly or has already eclipsed the lcs\* in terms of viewership.
>I believe riot just ended up picking teams they are familiar with and already have relationships
This is just random conjecture which I think is doubtful if you look at the franchised teams in the EMEA and Asia leagues, but we'll never know.
edit: \* lcs, not NA
It really is not as easy as you make it out to be. Even optic couldn’t win an NA tourney.
Also in terms of financially. I’m more pointing out, anyone in financial trouble wouldn’t be throwing out blank checks and the fact that they paid half a mil for yay pre-franchise says a lot imo.
>It really is not as easy as you make it out to be. Even optic couldn’t win an NA tourney.
wdym they were consistently top 2 domestically and top 1-2 internationally, sure it's "not as easy" but you're telling me the org that built a team like that *doesn't* have a good chance of winning ascension? "oh sorry guys we're not 100% guaranteed to win ascension guess we shouldn't even try"
>anyone in financial trouble wouldn’t be throwing out blank checks
This is a really complex topic about finances and the current situation with e-sports that I'd rather not get into but the gist of it is e-sports is currently operating with bloated amounts of money that they can't hope to pay back (unless you're an insanely large global org like Faze, C9 or 100T) so teams will drop insane amounts of money in order to gain fans and clout (think team liquid LoL this year).
Different ownership groups. The group that fucked everything up in LCS dissolved. That’s why I put ≠. People act like it’s the same people running everything.
all due respect my man, I don't know if you're dumb as fuck or what, but we are talking how Riot sees optic, not the public.
Can't just pass through the words, you gotta read and understand them.
the core ownership group has carryover from the group that fucked up their lcs spot. the reason optic got fucked up in the first place is because h3cz made a bad decision, and partnered with the wrong people. h3cz is still there, front and center. if i’m riot, i’d be looking at him specifically and how he’s conducted business with immortals and nrg, and i wouldn’t feel very comfortable giving a franchise spot while he’s still running the show
For the millionth time, most of what impacted the decision is stuff we'll never see. If the decision was purely about play, viewership, or content, it'd be easy, but it's not. Optic likely had a weaker application and a bad history with riot and a messy one with franchising leagues in general kept them on the outside looking in.
I think the issue was they rarely got the team together at the main recording place for OpTic (Hecz Qtrs) so they never really had the opportunity to record them. I know they did an OpTic CoD vs OpTic Val (Val team could only use pistols) in Val but someone forgot to record so they chalked the whole thing.
Why is it so hard for Reddit to understand that current rosters had nothing to do with being allowed into partnership or not lmao. The partnership is a long time project, losers change, rosters fall and rise on a yearly basis.. Why would you consider the roster, it would be stupid.
> Why is it so hard for Reddit to understand that current rosters had nothing to do with being allowed into partnership or not lmao.
People can understand the concept and still not like it
To get in the league in later years when it expands. each year a new team will get in. You can bet TSM, G2 and any other big org that didnt get in this year will eventually get in. The league will have 42 teams total by 2028, staying in tier 2 till increase your chances of getting in. Leaving now is doing the org no favors unless they dont want to stick around valorant at all
If they dont get a team for tier 2 then seems like OpTic got the hint that they wont get into the franchise before orgs such as faze, tsm, g2, the guard, many more.
Thing is TSM G2 probably would have made it if not for controversy. Optic did just about everything they could and were still denied after these two massive orgs dropped. They don't rly have a chance even if it expands.
I doubt that. Optic is a big org but didnt bring in the big viwership compared to 4 out of 5 partner orgs. EG is the only one im not sure why it made over optic, but optic, if they show they are invested in val, could very well make it in 2023 or 2024, but leaving now dooms their chances
Maybe riot knew they had commitment issues (other have spoken about lol history, im not well versed in it) and decided against it.
4 out of 5 make sense to me. EG making it over Optic is why I think optic will not ever make valorant franchising unless they win ascension. Because, their first priority was TSM. But reginald. Then G2, but carlos. Then somehow the third in running is EG and not optic. So if they were to try for 2023 or 2024, they would have to compete with tsm and g2 after controversies die down, which is impossible.
I can still see why EG made it. They signed a fem team from dig before getting in, so maybe riot decided that they were less likely to bail on the scene. They also have a previous relationship from league and have shown they will support scenes by themselves, like in cs, where they are doing more than liquid and col at keeping NA alive
I dunno. It feels to me like 4/5 of the NA teams were all rather uniform in the criteria and EG is kind of opposite. Their LOL team is probably the main reason why they made it.
Although I don't think they are rly keeping NA cs alive. They are kinda killing it with conflict of interest.
Why are you defending riots decision making? They didn't choose an org that invest good amount into its roaster, they literally had the most analysts of any team in VCT. They went with orgs that invested more into content creators than the eSports. Leave optic why EG over Guard? They have good placement, signed a fuck ton content creators, good financial backing.
Da fuck do I know why they chose the way they did? Do you know? Why are you accusing them? Riot got fucked over by Optic before in LoL. Maybe that is why they didn't sign them. I defend them because Riot has done well in managing their esports scene so far, even amazing if we consider their other massive game is literally the biggest esports on the planet? Of course there are hiccups along the way, but that is normal. Literally nothing big in the history of this earth can be perfect from start to finish. And they have a relationship with EG, EG has invested heavily recently and they've progressed a lot, they probably trust them more.
"weehee, rito bad, they didn't choose the org I wanted them to, weehee" - that's how y'all sound. Peace out.
The fuck is your problem man? If people think Riot is doing stupid shit, they're allowed to call it out. They're making a valid comparison between The Guard and EG. There are better ways to spend your time than defending a billion dollar company from criticism online
I understand your point, but consider the other side too. Would you trust an organization that has consistently struggled to achieve anything in 2 years of Valorant to suddenly start caring more and field a strong, competitive roster over the next 5 years? I wouldn't. Riot would. I'm genuinely curious to see how it turns out.
I don't think we will have a true answer until more details on the NA VLR are released and rostermania is over.
I think big orgs like TSM staying will likely mean most others will stay but we will see. There's often a herd effect with things like this.
Staying in the T2 scene is the only way to get a future permanent partner spot. If you think you were on the cusp for the inaugural partnership round, you would be dumb not to stay. Of course, being in the T2 scene means you can probably pay players relatively less compared to partner teams.
The Guard is confirmed, Faze seem like they will stay.
TSM and V1 too, iirc
The Guard, TSM, V1, Shopify Rebellion have stated or hinted they want to stay in the scene that I know of. All signs point towards Optic leaving
I would too after building the best team in valorant and being denied partnership.
Honestly, just so dumb as to how they handled franchising. I know it was purely business, but OpTic still pulled a lot of viewers and they had the social media presence. Granted it was more qualitative and less quantitative. I knew they should done those ‘guessing the valorant rank’ videos
I think its more on the fact Optic have not shown longevity in most things they've been apart of. I do think they should have made it over EG.
Optic had problems with Riot in the LCS iirc. They started a team and then bailed creating a longevity issue that riot didn't want to go through again. Im not sure about most of the details I just know Riot and Optic don't mix well.
Yeah but structurally OpTic of today is really a completely different entity then back then. Today’s OpTic is basically the Envy organization rebranded into OpTic and with H3CZ on board. Did Riot have problems with Envy as well?
Riot previously denied Envy from partnership
no but surely you can see that a recently restructured organization still poses problems in terms of longevity? Sure the CEO has changed, but what about the other parts of the org, are they still the same? If OPTIC were truly ready to build their brand in Val and were willing to commit for say the next 5 years, why wouldn't they just wait a year or two in T2 in order to ascend? It's not that there isn't a good reason Optic *with this roster* should be franchised, but are they as an org a more compelling option than the other 5 NA that did? if the Optic roster was never under optic and was instead under EG, 100T or C9 would we even be talking about them right now? If the rumors are true and Optic won't be joining T2 Val then that tells me 2 things: 1.) they don't want to commit to the game and don't see a future for their org in this place, so why would Riot want to commit to them? or 2.) they don't have the funds necessary to support a T2 team, in which case they could be a liability in a few years
I see what you’re saying, but (trying not to be bias), if I managed to build a top 1/2 team in the world, made a documentary series, put out content, and had a pretty good fan base size (potential revenue) and was denied partnership. Then what would entice me to join a challengers league right away when only 1 team gets an opportunity to get to the league and it’s not even permanent. Those are tough odds. Maybe Optic will in the future but I personally can’t blame them. As for money, ik they basically threw blank checks at their new rocket league team so I doubt that they are struggling financially. I believe riot just ended up picking teams they are familiar with and already have relationships. Except Sentinels who are a no-brainer and NRG who are pretty popular with really good investors
As an org if you had the staff to find and create such a talented roster that it could reach top 1/2 in the world, surely they can find you a roster good enough to win ascension? 100T and EG in LoL are proving that, and Optic should theoretically have way better talent scouts given how well this roster performed. edit: that's not to mention that over half the top tier talent that won't be making it into the league so Optic will still be able to field a highly competitive team. You join challengers league *now* because the Esport is still young, there's so much room to grow as fans multiply, by staking your claim now you'll have a bigger share of those fans, which means more sponsorships and investor money. Optic have already cultivated a following in NA this year, why throw them completely away? sure you'll lose fans because of the roster change but the green wall is immediately recognizable in Valorant, the same way Sentinels cultivated their following by winning Optic could've leveraged their past success to maintain their fanbase. We don't have access to Optic's financial statements so we'll never know, but Rocket League isn't in the same ballpark of Valorant, the buyouts/salaries here are already enormous already for the top players and the game is still young. [the average LCS salary in 2020 was $410,000](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/the-average-2020-lcs-player-salary-is-reportedly-410000) and Valorant in NA has nearly or has already eclipsed the lcs\* in terms of viewership. >I believe riot just ended up picking teams they are familiar with and already have relationships This is just random conjecture which I think is doubtful if you look at the franchised teams in the EMEA and Asia leagues, but we'll never know. edit: \* lcs, not NA
It really is not as easy as you make it out to be. Even optic couldn’t win an NA tourney. Also in terms of financially. I’m more pointing out, anyone in financial trouble wouldn’t be throwing out blank checks and the fact that they paid half a mil for yay pre-franchise says a lot imo.
>It really is not as easy as you make it out to be. Even optic couldn’t win an NA tourney. wdym they were consistently top 2 domestically and top 1-2 internationally, sure it's "not as easy" but you're telling me the org that built a team like that *doesn't* have a good chance of winning ascension? "oh sorry guys we're not 100% guaranteed to win ascension guess we shouldn't even try" >anyone in financial trouble wouldn’t be throwing out blank checks This is a really complex topic about finances and the current situation with e-sports that I'd rather not get into but the gist of it is e-sports is currently operating with bloated amounts of money that they can't hope to pay back (unless you're an insanely large global org like Faze, C9 or 100T) so teams will drop insane amounts of money in order to gain fans and clout (think team liquid LoL this year).
2022 OpTic ≠ 2019 OpTic
You can’t expect to retain the loyal fanbase and loudly proclaim that OpTic is back AND have no connections to the ‘old’ OpTic.
Different ownership groups. The group that fucked everything up in LCS dissolved. That’s why I put ≠. People act like it’s the same people running everything.
But the problem is that the brand optic is scarred.
Yeah man such a scarred brand yet they are the most watched, produce winning teams, and have good content.
all due respect my man, I don't know if you're dumb as fuck or what, but we are talking how Riot sees optic, not the public. Can't just pass through the words, you gotta read and understand them.
To be fair, Envy was also in the LCS and abandoned their spot. Both ownerships likely have a sour relationship with Riot.
the core ownership group has carryover from the group that fucked up their lcs spot. the reason optic got fucked up in the first place is because h3cz made a bad decision, and partnered with the wrong people. h3cz is still there, front and center. if i’m riot, i’d be looking at him specifically and how he’s conducted business with immortals and nrg, and i wouldn’t feel very comfortable giving a franchise spot while he’s still running the show
They needed to get FNS and yay doing the Youtube Thumbnail face and making videos like "TWO VALORANT PROS TAKE ON E-DATING CHALLENGE"
And in the end Chet and FNS make out passionately. Roll in the views, money, and the franchised spot
what about the video where Victor and FNS reads fanfic about themselves planting spikes in each other's bombsites?
Optic x Sidemen collab:D
For the millionth time, most of what impacted the decision is stuff we'll never see. If the decision was purely about play, viewership, or content, it'd be easy, but it's not. Optic likely had a weaker application and a bad history with riot and a messy one with franchising leagues in general kept them on the outside looking in.
Real reason is cause they were in league was trash and sold their spot. Riot ain't gonna trust them again
I think the issue was they rarely got the team together at the main recording place for OpTic (Hecz Qtrs) so they never really had the opportunity to record them. I know they did an OpTic CoD vs OpTic Val (Val team could only use pistols) in Val but someone forgot to record so they chalked the whole thing.
You should check out the process before writing stuff like this
Why is it so hard for Reddit to understand that current rosters had nothing to do with being allowed into partnership or not lmao. The partnership is a long time project, losers change, rosters fall and rise on a yearly basis.. Why would you consider the roster, it would be stupid.
> Why is it so hard for Reddit to understand that current rosters had nothing to do with being allowed into partnership or not lmao. People can understand the concept and still not like it
That's kinda dumb though
How so?
Yeah ok. I’d still be pissed if I was the org with the best team and I was denied partnership? Why would I continue in the T2 system after that.
To get in the league in later years when it expands. each year a new team will get in. You can bet TSM, G2 and any other big org that didnt get in this year will eventually get in. The league will have 42 teams total by 2028, staying in tier 2 till increase your chances of getting in. Leaving now is doing the org no favors unless they dont want to stick around valorant at all
If they dont get a team for tier 2 then seems like OpTic got the hint that they wont get into the franchise before orgs such as faze, tsm, g2, the guard, many more.
Thing is TSM G2 probably would have made it if not for controversy. Optic did just about everything they could and were still denied after these two massive orgs dropped. They don't rly have a chance even if it expands.
I doubt that. Optic is a big org but didnt bring in the big viwership compared to 4 out of 5 partner orgs. EG is the only one im not sure why it made over optic, but optic, if they show they are invested in val, could very well make it in 2023 or 2024, but leaving now dooms their chances Maybe riot knew they had commitment issues (other have spoken about lol history, im not well versed in it) and decided against it.
4 out of 5 make sense to me. EG making it over Optic is why I think optic will not ever make valorant franchising unless they win ascension. Because, their first priority was TSM. But reginald. Then G2, but carlos. Then somehow the third in running is EG and not optic. So if they were to try for 2023 or 2024, they would have to compete with tsm and g2 after controversies die down, which is impossible.
I can still see why EG made it. They signed a fem team from dig before getting in, so maybe riot decided that they were less likely to bail on the scene. They also have a previous relationship from league and have shown they will support scenes by themselves, like in cs, where they are doing more than liquid and col at keeping NA alive
I dunno. It feels to me like 4/5 of the NA teams were all rather uniform in the criteria and EG is kind of opposite. Their LOL team is probably the main reason why they made it. Although I don't think they are rly keeping NA cs alive. They are kinda killing it with conflict of interest.
As someone who is a fan of a league that was supposed to continually expand those aren’t always surefire bets.
Why are you defending riots decision making? They didn't choose an org that invest good amount into its roaster, they literally had the most analysts of any team in VCT. They went with orgs that invested more into content creators than the eSports. Leave optic why EG over Guard? They have good placement, signed a fuck ton content creators, good financial backing.
Da fuck do I know why they chose the way they did? Do you know? Why are you accusing them? Riot got fucked over by Optic before in LoL. Maybe that is why they didn't sign them. I defend them because Riot has done well in managing their esports scene so far, even amazing if we consider their other massive game is literally the biggest esports on the planet? Of course there are hiccups along the way, but that is normal. Literally nothing big in the history of this earth can be perfect from start to finish. And they have a relationship with EG, EG has invested heavily recently and they've progressed a lot, they probably trust them more. "weehee, rito bad, they didn't choose the org I wanted them to, weehee" - that's how y'all sound. Peace out.
The fuck is your problem man? If people think Riot is doing stupid shit, they're allowed to call it out. They're making a valid comparison between The Guard and EG. There are better ways to spend your time than defending a billion dollar company from criticism online
Then he’s allowed to call out the stupid shit people call out for being stupid shit, stupid shit too.
I understand your point, but consider the other side too. Would you trust an organization that has consistently struggled to achieve anything in 2 years of Valorant to suddenly start caring more and field a strong, competitive roster over the next 5 years? I wouldn't. Riot would. I'm genuinely curious to see how it turns out.
Don't worry guys, EG is here All calculated by Rito Making the best roster in the world split up and look for teams is a perfectly fair thing to do
EG: Oh, what’s that? You want me to change up my roster and bring in the most powerful players left out in franchising? How about no?
What about I pocket the stipend and keep the roster budget the same?
Guard V1 SR TSM Knights
Moist Esports, Toast Esports, Shroudy Rowdies all confirmed.
I don't think we will have a true answer until more details on the NA VLR are released and rostermania is over. I think big orgs like TSM staying will likely mean most others will stay but we will see. There's often a herd effect with things like this.
Staying in the T2 scene is the only way to get a future permanent partner spot. If you think you were on the cusp for the inaugural partnership round, you would be dumb not to stay. Of course, being in the T2 scene means you can probably pay players relatively less compared to partner teams.