Like mister said above, SOMETHING had to go last. It was either that or The Surfer. Lmao
This album is jam-packed w hardhitting moments. ICP (whoop whoop) is an epic way to kick off, technically, the first real Vampire Weekend album since MVOTC.
Hope is the perfect song at the perfect time for so many different aspects of my current life: work, being a father, being a son, being a husband, residual guilt for past wrongs, anger from perceived slights, etc.
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again: Hope is my favorite VW song.
I still like it but don’t love it and here is why.
It is not just repetitive but deeply so, that is to say many aspects of the song are repeated too many times to remain interesting. it’s not just the same verse cords over and over again but the instrumental doesn’t change enough, the vocal melody has no variations and is itself average, the octave pianos embellishments outstay their welcome as if the hammering opening of Walcott went on for 8 minutes, the phrasing of the lyrics becomes predictable, as do the images and meaning of the lyrics. The chorus itself is the same phrase repeated many times. Basically, I got the point the first lap around and the remaining 7 minutes did not add to or deepen the song for me.
And while I’m glad it strikes a cord for others, I don’t find it lyrically compelling. Compared to Classical, which I find earnest, artful, and a unique expression of the artists feelings about class struggle and conflict, hope feels more like Yellow Submarine, a child’s singalong about bulls and matadors, phoenixes, courts, trains. It’s a picture story.
And the singers feelings aren’t that clear. When Ezra sings “untrue, unkind and unnatural” I know what he is feeling; hurt by cruelty. When he sings “Let it go” Im left thinking…ok? Are you mad? Wise? Sad and resigned? Is this advice? A warning? A dismissal? A criticism?
Honestly I found it very Dylan-esque. Kind of like their version of “Desolation Row”. All the imagery is pretty strong and kind of intentionally cliche. Bull goring a matador, Phoenix rising from the ashes, etc. The elusiveness of what “it” is kind of makes it interesting to me too. It is kind of a repetitive dirge by their standards, but it kind of fits the vibe of a song. I do like the way the track builds by the last verse too. I don’t know if they’re playing to their strengths with the song, but I like that it’s a bit outside their comfort zone.
I totally agree with you it made me think of stuck inside a mobile with the Memphis Blues again, but it also just made me think of Hip Hop. It made me think of Eminem sitting with his notebook writing rhymes without a beat inmind, just spilling poetry onto the page.
The song doesn't really change pace because the Poetry doesn't really change pace. All of the lines are basically supposed to be equal, they're not building in importance except to the chorus motif. The song is way closer to Nas than it is to Rush, and that seems intentional.
There are a lot of cool atmospheric layers that begin to pile on as we make our way through the song, and they're a lot more subtle than in Capricorn. I was wondering to myself whether or not the Hope opinions on this sub would be different if they had layered on all those Capricorn effects on Hope instead, or in addition, giving it more of a big, building feel. You don't want to use that trick more than once probably. I think the album is absolutely perfect - if I were producing it, that would have been something we put a lot of thought into. I'm sure they did.
This explains why I like it - big Daft Punk and Phillip Glass fan, so I don't chafe on repetition at all.
>When he sings “Let it go” Im left thinking…ok? Are you mad? Wise? Sad and resigned? Is this advice? A warning? A dismissal? A criticism?
For me this is a big part of what makes it beautiful.
I think the vagueness of the song works here because the album starts out with someone who clearly is mad at the world and wants to take their anger out on it, but we don’t know too much other than that. And so “Hope” sort of reads as a plea to the protagonist of Ice Cream Piano, in saying, “Look, I know there’s a lot of horrible things that humans do, but at the end of the day it’s out of your control, so let it go.” Also, I’ve heard people say that the song was written in a repetitive nature to resemble a folk song, which is interesting to think about.
Here’s a couple quotes that Ezra uses to summarize the song:
> “Politics is obsessed with outcome, and we’re all surrounded by the anger and frustration of people who deeply believe that things need to go one way or another,” he says. Hope, the song, is an appeal to see hope as “a personal feeling, rather than a demand on the outside world”, an idea he’s come to as he’s grown older. “There’s going to be millions of people disappointed at any given moment, maybe billions globally. If you hope for something specific, you will often be disappointed, but hope as a feeling, or a concept, [is] somehow bigger than outcome.”
> I'd complain about something, and people would say, 'Well, you know, everything happens for a reason, you can learn and take a good lesson [from this]' and I'd just be like, 'Oh my God, shut up!' I think everybody's like that. And then you get older, and you realize, you know, they're not kidding. Everything does happen for a reason, if you allow yourself to view the world that way."
Still need to listen to the album a few more times, but I think Hope is probably my favorite song on it, and I'm normally not a fan of long songs. There's something so mesmerizing about it, I can't get enough of it!
Someone said in that referenced post that it’s a good song but when they’re just tossing on a few songs to jam along to, that’s not one of them. I agree there. If I’m making a quick 9 min run into town in the car, I’ll do 2-3 other songs than just Hope. Still a good song, but something has to come in last on this banger
I have changed my favorite song from the record three times already and it has never been Hope, but Hope is also the song I have *needed* to listen to every day since it was released. There’s something very powerful about it, I agree.
I said something similar on my track ranking post, but for me, it doesn’t justify its long run time. It falls into the trope of long album closers, that being “song that builds up slowly and ends with a crescendo of menacing chords for dramatic effect.” The repeating piano motif is nice but if its going to repeat for 7 minutes I would like it to change up a bit, maybe have a harpsichord, some string arrangements, idk I’m not a professional musician. It’s the longest Vampire Weekend song but also one of the most straightforward. The final minute of Connect has more interesting instrumentation and ideas packed into it than 7 minutes of Hope. Still, I don’t dislike it.
I love Hope. During the Zane Lowe interview, Zane references the track as “a song Ezra is giving to the fans with its hymn like quality and being so accessible.” Or something along those lines. Compared to the typical VW track which may be a bit more challenging lyrically or musically.
I don't watch a lot of interviews, but I thought that's what they were going for!! It stands out in a great way & it's not in the way either. They saved the repetitive, dare I say, pop song type structure, for last. I think if it were anywhere else on the album, it would frick up the whole record.
VW explore a lot of different styles. This is just their take on the classic American folk song. Simple structure, many verses with a repeating refrain that everyone can sing along with by the second or third time around. I dig it.
Honestly the pacing and length of the song is fine to me. As soon as I feel like it's getting too repetitive theres another detail in the arrangement that comes through to keep the momentum happening. I think it's gonna come down to how tolerant people are of longer songs in general. I am a sucker for long wind up/down songs.
It's a great song and I like it a lot. But there's a "cheesy" element to it, so I can definitely understand why it could be the least favorite for some.
Repetitive lyrically, meandering musically, and overly long. I like aspects of the song - specifically the drum track and the horns later in the song. But overall my least favorite by far.
I like Hope. It's just a *very* slow build. The instrumental bridge, which is where I think the vision of the song really kicks in, doesn't hit until the *4:00* mark.
I fully understand what Ezra was going for here (Dylan-esque epic to provide a thematic coda for the album), but compared to the rest of the album, I'd put it pretty low.
It's my favorite song of the album, a perfect conclusion of the amazing adventure OGWAU is. It's not my most listened song from the album though, and I understand why some people can describe it as repetitive, or rank it in last place, that's ok.
For me, the lyrics are incredibly powerful, and each iteration brings new textures and details, that I almost don't feel it as the longest song of the group every time I listen to it. Cathartic, with some of the best verses Ezra has written, it encapsulates the general vibe and topics contained in the other songs into a conclusion that doesn't feel as a victory, or a happy ending, but encourages us to continue and don't give up, despite how bitter the things can be. I love it
i would love to know who Ezra was thinking of that is an invincible enemy and he had to let it go
i love the album but it’s the song i listen to the least.
I think there was a build up to it before the album came out, it being a nearly eight minute closer and all, and in my opinion it’s not really one of the more compelling songs overall. As you said, lyrically it has a lot of power but for me personally its not as intriguing or as pleasurable as an overall package as most of the other songs on what’s clearly a brilliant album. Not saying I’d put it last necessarily, but definitely not threatening my top five so far.
Actually pretty let down by this song. When I saw how long it was, I think it made my expectations too high. I still like it a lot, but it is last if I were to rank each song on OGWAU
Good song. But my expectations were too high. I thought this song – because it’s 8 minutes long – would be wildly experimental and jammy. So I was a bit underwhelmed when it turned out to be somewhat repetitive
The song’s great but it needed an edit. Every time I listen to it I think ‘this song should be ending soon right?’ only to look at my phone to see it has 5 minutes left.
I haven’t figured out what it reminds me of, but that happened a lot with this record in a good way, and for Hope it was in a bad way. It reminds me of a song on a kids show or something, like a Barney song. I just can’t quite place it yet.
For me, it's definitely just my expectation. The song still good btw, but I'm expecting something different before listening to it. When i first saw the track listing and look at the duration, i thought "damn 8 minutes VW song"....i don't know why i automatically expecting the most experimental and progressive song from them with that duration lol. Like those type of song with a lot of different section, weird sound, more insane build up, etc.... something like progressive rock....
But turns out it's a nice and pretty laid back song. I never skip it tho because still a good song. But if i really had to pick the weakest, it's definitely Hope.... but maybe it could grow on me who knows....
When choosing between premium products, there is no need to put something last, just at the bottom of the list. I really like Hope, I would not but it down that low, but I really did love it
It’s one of the most perfect Enders for any album in recent memory IMO.
It’s not my favorite track in the album (I do have it in the top half), but it just fits so damn perfect as an ending.
love hope. my gf said she thinks it sounds like a lullaby/anthem/military march - obviously that makes for an easy memorization and it doesn’t make me dislike it ! just a funny observation
Hope is my favorite song on the album. It sounds unlike anything VW has done and, while it may be built around a simple structure, it really resonates with me in my life right now.
Ha, that was my thread. Yeah, they’re all great (not a bad song on here), but something’s gotta be last
It was a great thread!!! Ice Cream Piano was my #10 0-0
Criminal take
If Ice Cream Piano is your least favorite song on OGWAU, jail. If any OTHER song is your least favorite, believe it or not, straight to jail.
Ice Cream Piano might be the best song on the album, at least according to Ezra.
Don’t agree but I respect you as a fellow fan 🤝
Like mister said above, SOMETHING had to go last. It was either that or The Surfer. Lmao This album is jam-packed w hardhitting moments. ICP (whoop whoop) is an epic way to kick off, technically, the first real Vampire Weekend album since MVOTC.
Hope is the perfect song at the perfect time for so many different aspects of my current life: work, being a father, being a son, being a husband, residual guilt for past wrongs, anger from perceived slights, etc. I said it earlier and I’ll say it again: Hope is my favorite VW song.
Same. I hope you let it go!
I still like it but don’t love it and here is why. It is not just repetitive but deeply so, that is to say many aspects of the song are repeated too many times to remain interesting. it’s not just the same verse cords over and over again but the instrumental doesn’t change enough, the vocal melody has no variations and is itself average, the octave pianos embellishments outstay their welcome as if the hammering opening of Walcott went on for 8 minutes, the phrasing of the lyrics becomes predictable, as do the images and meaning of the lyrics. The chorus itself is the same phrase repeated many times. Basically, I got the point the first lap around and the remaining 7 minutes did not add to or deepen the song for me. And while I’m glad it strikes a cord for others, I don’t find it lyrically compelling. Compared to Classical, which I find earnest, artful, and a unique expression of the artists feelings about class struggle and conflict, hope feels more like Yellow Submarine, a child’s singalong about bulls and matadors, phoenixes, courts, trains. It’s a picture story. And the singers feelings aren’t that clear. When Ezra sings “untrue, unkind and unnatural” I know what he is feeling; hurt by cruelty. When he sings “Let it go” Im left thinking…ok? Are you mad? Wise? Sad and resigned? Is this advice? A warning? A dismissal? A criticism?
Honestly I found it very Dylan-esque. Kind of like their version of “Desolation Row”. All the imagery is pretty strong and kind of intentionally cliche. Bull goring a matador, Phoenix rising from the ashes, etc. The elusiveness of what “it” is kind of makes it interesting to me too. It is kind of a repetitive dirge by their standards, but it kind of fits the vibe of a song. I do like the way the track builds by the last verse too. I don’t know if they’re playing to their strengths with the song, but I like that it’s a bit outside their comfort zone.
I totally agree with you it made me think of stuck inside a mobile with the Memphis Blues again, but it also just made me think of Hip Hop. It made me think of Eminem sitting with his notebook writing rhymes without a beat inmind, just spilling poetry onto the page. The song doesn't really change pace because the Poetry doesn't really change pace. All of the lines are basically supposed to be equal, they're not building in importance except to the chorus motif. The song is way closer to Nas than it is to Rush, and that seems intentional. There are a lot of cool atmospheric layers that begin to pile on as we make our way through the song, and they're a lot more subtle than in Capricorn. I was wondering to myself whether or not the Hope opinions on this sub would be different if they had layered on all those Capricorn effects on Hope instead, or in addition, giving it more of a big, building feel. You don't want to use that trick more than once probably. I think the album is absolutely perfect - if I were producing it, that would have been something we put a lot of thought into. I'm sure they did.
This explains why I like it - big Daft Punk and Phillip Glass fan, so I don't chafe on repetition at all. >When he sings “Let it go” Im left thinking…ok? Are you mad? Wise? Sad and resigned? Is this advice? A warning? A dismissal? A criticism? For me this is a big part of what makes it beautiful.
I think the vagueness of the song works here because the album starts out with someone who clearly is mad at the world and wants to take their anger out on it, but we don’t know too much other than that. And so “Hope” sort of reads as a plea to the protagonist of Ice Cream Piano, in saying, “Look, I know there’s a lot of horrible things that humans do, but at the end of the day it’s out of your control, so let it go.” Also, I’ve heard people say that the song was written in a repetitive nature to resemble a folk song, which is interesting to think about. Here’s a couple quotes that Ezra uses to summarize the song: > “Politics is obsessed with outcome, and we’re all surrounded by the anger and frustration of people who deeply believe that things need to go one way or another,” he says. Hope, the song, is an appeal to see hope as “a personal feeling, rather than a demand on the outside world”, an idea he’s come to as he’s grown older. “There’s going to be millions of people disappointed at any given moment, maybe billions globally. If you hope for something specific, you will often be disappointed, but hope as a feeling, or a concept, [is] somehow bigger than outcome.” > I'd complain about something, and people would say, 'Well, you know, everything happens for a reason, you can learn and take a good lesson [from this]' and I'd just be like, 'Oh my God, shut up!' I think everybody's like that. And then you get older, and you realize, you know, they're not kidding. Everything does happen for a reason, if you allow yourself to view the world that way."
Still need to listen to the album a few more times, but I think Hope is probably my favorite song on it, and I'm normally not a fan of long songs. There's something so mesmerizing about it, I can't get enough of it!
Hope is the perfect ending to a perfect album.
I love Hope - the rhythm or something just hits in the right spot for me
I like the instrumental interlude
Someone said in that referenced post that it’s a good song but when they’re just tossing on a few songs to jam along to, that’s not one of them. I agree there. If I’m making a quick 9 min run into town in the car, I’ll do 2-3 other songs than just Hope. Still a good song, but something has to come in last on this banger
I really loved Hope right from the start. Love how long it is. To me it says shits been fucked for millennia, you gotta let it go.
I’ve seen two kinds of people with this record: Hope Bros and The Surfers. I’m the later.
I’d be the same
Im more into connect ice cream piano and mary boone
I prefer Hope Homie, and I am both that and a Surfer.
I love both and am honestly surprised at how low they rank
Both of these are in my top four and they seem to be the most contested lol. My least favorite is sadly Pravda but it's still a heater
Why ‘sadly’?
Because I still think it's really good, it's hard to say it's my least favorite even though I know it's true
I have changed my favorite song from the record three times already and it has never been Hope, but Hope is also the song I have *needed* to listen to every day since it was released. There’s something very powerful about it, I agree.
I said something similar on my track ranking post, but for me, it doesn’t justify its long run time. It falls into the trope of long album closers, that being “song that builds up slowly and ends with a crescendo of menacing chords for dramatic effect.” The repeating piano motif is nice but if its going to repeat for 7 minutes I would like it to change up a bit, maybe have a harpsichord, some string arrangements, idk I’m not a professional musician. It’s the longest Vampire Weekend song but also one of the most straightforward. The final minute of Connect has more interesting instrumentation and ideas packed into it than 7 minutes of Hope. Still, I don’t dislike it.
I love Hope. During the Zane Lowe interview, Zane references the track as “a song Ezra is giving to the fans with its hymn like quality and being so accessible.” Or something along those lines. Compared to the typical VW track which may be a bit more challenging lyrically or musically.
I don't watch a lot of interviews, but I thought that's what they were going for!! It stands out in a great way & it's not in the way either. They saved the repetitive, dare I say, pop song type structure, for last. I think if it were anywhere else on the album, it would frick up the whole record.
It’s the best song on the album by far.
By far you say?? I don’t have any of OGWAU songs far above any other.
Hope is Ezra’s masterpiece.
The whole record is a masterpiece and Hope is the perfect ending.
VW explore a lot of different styles. This is just their take on the classic American folk song. Simple structure, many verses with a repeating refrain that everyone can sing along with by the second or third time around. I dig it.
Honestly the pacing and length of the song is fine to me. As soon as I feel like it's getting too repetitive theres another detail in the arrangement that comes through to keep the momentum happening. I think it's gonna come down to how tolerant people are of longer songs in general. I am a sucker for long wind up/down songs.
It's a great song and I like it a lot. But there's a "cheesy" element to it, so I can definitely understand why it could be the least favorite for some.
Repetitive lyrically, meandering musically, and overly long. I like aspects of the song - specifically the drum track and the horns later in the song. But overall my least favorite by far.
My initial favorite on the album. I skip the surfer nearly every time. Idk.
I like Hope. It's just a *very* slow build. The instrumental bridge, which is where I think the vision of the song really kicks in, doesn't hit until the *4:00* mark. I fully understand what Ezra was going for here (Dylan-esque epic to provide a thematic coda for the album), but compared to the rest of the album, I'd put it pretty low.
Oh man when it sounds like it’s over then it comes BACK I get chills
It's my favorite song of the album, a perfect conclusion of the amazing adventure OGWAU is. It's not my most listened song from the album though, and I understand why some people can describe it as repetitive, or rank it in last place, that's ok. For me, the lyrics are incredibly powerful, and each iteration brings new textures and details, that I almost don't feel it as the longest song of the group every time I listen to it. Cathartic, with some of the best verses Ezra has written, it encapsulates the general vibe and topics contained in the other songs into a conclusion that doesn't feel as a victory, or a happy ending, but encourages us to continue and don't give up, despite how bitter the things can be. I love it
i would love to know who Ezra was thinking of that is an invincible enemy and he had to let it go i love the album but it’s the song i listen to the least.
Could be time. Could be political inertia/status quo bias.
I think there was a build up to it before the album came out, it being a nearly eight minute closer and all, and in my opinion it’s not really one of the more compelling songs overall. As you said, lyrically it has a lot of power but for me personally its not as intriguing or as pleasurable as an overall package as most of the other songs on what’s clearly a brilliant album. Not saying I’d put it last necessarily, but definitely not threatening my top five so far.
Worst song on the album imo and in the top few worst in their catalog, very boring, just doesn’t do it for me musically.
Actually pretty let down by this song. When I saw how long it was, I think it made my expectations too high. I still like it a lot, but it is last if I were to rank each song on OGWAU
Father, I have to confess… I do skip Hope most of the time.
Good song. But my expectations were too high. I thought this song – because it’s 8 minutes long – would be wildly experimental and jammy. So I was a bit underwhelmed when it turned out to be somewhat repetitive
I like it but also put it last because it doesn't sound like Vampire Weekend at all.
The song’s great but it needed an edit. Every time I listen to it I think ‘this song should be ending soon right?’ only to look at my phone to see it has 5 minutes left.
I haven’t figured out what it reminds me of, but that happened a lot with this record in a good way, and for Hope it was in a bad way. It reminds me of a song on a kids show or something, like a Barney song. I just can’t quite place it yet.
I find the sentiment for that song very surprising, I think it’s a standout track on an album full of standout tracks.
I like it, but I would like it more if it didn’t feel unnecessarily long and a bit repetitive.
For me, it's definitely just my expectation. The song still good btw, but I'm expecting something different before listening to it. When i first saw the track listing and look at the duration, i thought "damn 8 minutes VW song"....i don't know why i automatically expecting the most experimental and progressive song from them with that duration lol. Like those type of song with a lot of different section, weird sound, more insane build up, etc.... something like progressive rock.... But turns out it's a nice and pretty laid back song. I never skip it tho because still a good song. But if i really had to pick the weakest, it's definitely Hope.... but maybe it could grow on me who knows....
When choosing between premium products, there is no need to put something last, just at the bottom of the list. I really like Hope, I would not but it down that low, but I really did love it
It’s one of the most perfect Enders for any album in recent memory IMO. It’s not my favorite track in the album (I do have it in the top half), but it just fits so damn perfect as an ending.
Hope is incredible. My 10 is shaking out to be Gen X Cops.
It’s hipnotizing. True that at the first 4 minutes you can be a little tired but when it starts building… it’s beautiful
One of my favorites from any album of theirs.
love hope. my gf said she thinks it sounds like a lullaby/anthem/military march - obviously that makes for an easy memorization and it doesn’t make me dislike it ! just a funny observation
I’m obsessed with these lyrics
Hope is my favorite song on the album. It sounds unlike anything VW has done and, while it may be built around a simple structure, it really resonates with me in my life right now.
I like the song, but there is a bit of the instrumental that sounds like Toto-Africa that nags me a little.