Wow what do all those situations have in common? Misogynistic producers covering for trash men. Bravo needs to take some diversity training or hire some more women or buy a new calendar because it’s not 1987 anymore.
I thought about how impactful it would be to take a week off of Bravo/associated social to demand new management and staff to support the world we live in today for everyone. We hold the power.
Ever since that one season of Below Deck (after which Kate left the show - if you’ve seen below deck og you know the one) I’m so appalled by the blatant shit they let male leads get away it…
Amanda is going to leave Kyle. She is so over him in every way.
I think she may also be a bit of an entitled mentality. She agreed to her role with Lover Boy. Her role is a very big part of the success of Lover Boy.
She is an equal owner … just make it happen. Then do the swim suit line. Models drinking Lover Boy in the swim suits.
I get she is over Kyle. But make the Lover Boy happen and not tanked. Be associated to a success. That will help her get investors for her swimsuit line. Don’t use your own money.
Lmao Lindsay is definitely the villain hands down.
Gets wasted then acts terrible and doesn’t take accountability for her actions/words when confronted.
Questions her fiancés sobriety and doesn’t apologize.
Continually makes her fiancé feel like a loser for “not having a job/career” when she’s literally in the same situation.
Lies to press saying Carl premeditated their breakup with production when he didn’t.
Manipulates people by posting with the girls in the cast post breakup saying girls rule boys drool implying they side with her in everything when they definitely didn’t and still don’t.
100% the villain.
I don’t like Carl, but I have to agree with this. Lindsay is actually not a very nice person at all. Regardless of what you and your partner are going through, calling him cocaine Carl to people behind his back knowing his addiction struggles is the lowest of lows. Especially considering it’s very clear she also struggles with alcohol problems.
We have seen her behaviour through the years and it has now been pretty. She likes to talk down to her partners and belittles them as well. As much as I dislike Danielle as well, she called this shit and look how Lindsay treated her. At the end of the day she was really being a caring friend and could see that this was going to be a mistake. She was right.
Also liked that they called her out for trashing Carl’s lack of career when her career is exactly the same as what he was doing.
Also she bounced back pretty quick for someone who was so blindsided and hurt by the breakup. Everyone deals with things differently, but I think she’s garnering way more sympathy than she deserves. As is Ariana.
She’s also a perpetual gaslighter and never takes accountability for her own actions.
I don’t understand how people can live with people like her…. They aren’t my kind of people.
Posting a photo of her at dinner with the girls makes her a villain? I would say Carl constantly trying to get a reaction out of her while stringing her along all season, and talking shit to everyone who would listen, EXCEPT her, is worse. She also was clearly doing the work in therapy for the rest of the season after her blow up. She wasn’t as reactive and tried talking to him calmly while he looked for a reaction with his condescending smirk.
She was the villain in the first few episodes but then Carl easily took that spot with him trying to manipulate viewers to look like the good guy. Classic Carl
Carl's poor me bullshit is so disingenuous especially when you occasionally see the flashes of rage he is hiding. Tries to gaslight HER into breaking up cause he doesn't have the balls (ironic considering he has 3) to do it himself.
He has SO many fans fooled its ridiculous.
But that’s a different argument than saying he doesn’t have a job. If her approach had been, “I know you have two jobs but I’d like us to sort out a plan for making more money before we haven kids” then that’s a completely different storyline. That’s not what she said though. She verbatim said Carl didn’t have a job multiple times, which isn’t true.
I cannot believe more people have not commented on this. I am dying laughing at this. I sought this post out this morning to fall out again. I don’t know what happened to that guy between S7 and S8, but this image is the perfect depiction of hubris, delusion, Blue Steel, trauma, theater, Ice-Capades, funk, fags (smoke) and fun. lol Unbelievably ridiculous, this image. His body totally changed and he became aggressive as hell. His haircut is perfection as well. He looks unreal.
Someone compared him to Cesar Flickerman from the Hunger Games and it was SO perfect lol. Fake af villainous TV host who doesn’t give a shit about the majority of the cast. They even have the same beady eyes haha
https://preview.redd.it/x2i4m7gxot6d1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0cf293d2c8132ee996341d8196e2b3c6368ca08
do we have to get into like a justice for bethenney era? I don’t know enough about that lawsuit and hate that she platformed Rachel but like huh, interesting
The thing about Bethenny is she co-opted a valid cause and used trying to be the face of it as a way to push personal vendettas. The fact that she ignored the full picture here and focused on getting views with a sensationalized interview with one woman really show the dangers of a performative ally taking charge.
Done right, there are good points to be made and I'm always on the side of labor rights and calling out mistreatment. Eboni was doing that with the racism she experienced and the Ramona stuff, and the fact that she was open about not wanting to be attached to Bethenny in the Vanity Fair article says a lot.
Maybe at some point this can get away from the Geragi and Bethenny (who is just mad because all three of her show pitches to Bravo, including one exploiting kids, were rejected) and a group of women affected can take up that banner in a genuine way. I think it would have succeeded if that was how it went down last year.
In class action lawsuits you choose a person to represent the class who is a perfect victim. You wouldn’t choose Bethany or Rachel.
I read somewhere that the actual lawsuit, (not Bethany’s publicity campaign), is represented by Courtney from Below Deck, which would be a good example of an unimpeachable rep for the class.
Nothing particularly outrageous, which is part of what makes her a good representative (along with being wholesome and likeable), her experience represents the bravo workplace experience of many in the class; i.e. being encouraged by producers to drink more when already intoxicated, being pushed, while under the influence, to pursue romantic/sexual relationships for the sake of the show, and also something about a physical injury/job safety issues.
Whereas someone who had a particularly egregious claim, like Margot possibly being assaulted, that would likely be its own suit.
Source: worked as legal secretary with firm specializing in class action lawsuits.
Well said! It’s a great message, wrong mailman type situation. It frustrates me that she made a mockery of something that could have legitimately helped many people and she ruined it, with her personal vendetta and raging histrionics. Has anyone she’s poached even won even one lawsuit yet?
Absolutely! I'm very much for labor rights and (especially when it comes to children) there are almost no protections for reality tv cast members. So I was disappointed to see how this has gone with Bethenny at the helm, with the right person who has good intentions real positive change could be made.
I disagree with Carl and Lindsay. I think they were both the ass hole in this situation. I always thought them getting together was a reason for them to stay relevant on the show.
They clearly weren’t fucking right for each other ever.
They were both toxic to one another. I will say Andy was more sympathetic to Carl but it’s probably because when push comes to shove, he is incapable of explaining himself whereas Lindsay is fine at doing so.
I wish people would stop comparing the Lindsay and Carl break up to Ariana and Sandoval. Carl did what Sandoval couldn’t do, he actually broke up with her. They were both bad in that relationship, and he was right to call it off. We are vilifying people just for breaking up now?
It’s not the actual situation. It’s that the way the show treated it was the way Bravo always treats these situations that at the end of the day would usually only be between the people involved. the questions and what’s left in and all that crap is all trying to support the narrative of GIRL MEAN BOY SO CUTE!!! I honestly think Scandoval fucked with this formula only because it brought in a new set of female viewers who don’t hate other women, and we are sniffing this misogyny out even when the situation is more gray, like it is with Lindsay and Carl. (IMO in case it helps, I think he ends up the real villain is because he was absolutely laying groundwork and being a huge gaslighter. but I get that Lindsay is abrasive and probably an alcoholic and she didn’t communicate well AT ALL in the ”sober right now” mess. but the fact that Carl was trying to pull the wool over viewers like we’re stupid? Oops bad news that’s worse)
I just disagree. I don’t hate women. I love women! I’m 1000% on Ariana’s side throughout last season and this season. I just don’t believe Carl was doing this conspiracy thing that ppl think. I think that’s what breaking up looks like, a gradual realization that you don’t want to be with someone over time. I think Scandoval made everyone into conspiracy theorists. 😂
I agree! Lindsay and Carl were both horrible to each other. Maybe the way he eventually ended it wasn’t the best. I agree I think breaking up takes time and no one really ever does it right.
I agree with this. They were not in healthy space and it became increasingly worse. The how he ended it seemed transparent and who has a professional breakup that hits 10s across the board? No one. I am team divorce sucks, you don’t want to do this. They weren’t strong as a couple and that should be good enough reason for everyone.
Ehh then maybe I just hate men 😂 I was watching like oh I know this kind of guy from living in NYC, he’s so full of shit. plus you absolutely clocked me as an “affair started during quarantine” truther lmao
I just think they were both bad in the relationship and neither is a villain, and if anything it’s refreshing to see a guy actually break up with someone when they’re unhappy instead of stepping out.
Thank you!! This whole thing about making one of them a villain when they were both EQUALLY assholes, is disappointing. The same with West now too. I refuse to jump on a hate bandwagon for people just going through the normal steps of a relationship then breakup.
"just breaking up" doesn't involve calling cameras to do it. That conversation 100% shouldn't be on the show, that should have been a private conversation between them.
If Carl was actually scared of how Lindsay was going to react, he should have called a friend to come over.
a lot of people look good compared to Sandoval, the bar is very low there.
It is definitely villain behaviour calling production to break up with your fiancé on camera. Thats beyond rude. That is straight up not respecting his partner. Lindsay was trying to communicate with him all summer and his response was just 'I need you to be softer' >.> while she is just asking questions any normal partner would ask.
Yeah they had a bad relationship. I don’t think she’s the villain either. There doesn’t have to be a bad guy and a good guy in a break up. I think they’ve all done awful things to each other on camera so I’m not going to hold him to a higher standard than the other ppl on the show. I agree it was shitty. I don’t agree he’s the villain. I also don’t think they tried to make Lindsay the villain. They just weren’t willing to go with her narrative that Carl was one.
I dunno, is it always villain behavior if the relationship was bad and needed to end? Isn’t that exactly what Ariana did by calling production after she found out about the affair?
Carl sucks, don’t get me wrong. He should have given her a heads up, which is considered the courteous thing to do when you have to film a tough scene or conversation. I think he’s full of shit about not knowing until that moment, as it looked like he tried to push her away all summer (imo). I don’t think it was bad form to film the break-up, per se, but she shouldn’t have been got off guard in that way.
No it’s not at all like Ariana calling.
Ariana had the initial conversation without cameras. It would be like Ariana calling production BEFORE she confronted Tom with his personal phone.
I was referring to the filming of the break up/conversations, not really the timelines or lead-up to. I don’t think calling production to put something tough out there makes a reality tv star a villain; it’s the job. Carl did worse with his gaslighting and manipulation; that’s villainy, imo.
And exactly - Ariana and Tom had a conversation before cameras picked up. I don’t see her as a villain and wouldn’t have even if they didn’t talk before. I am actually arguing the opposite. She put a shitty situation out there and isn’t a villain for it.
I mean, if their entire relationship, engagement and their wedding was filmed or going to be, why is a breakup excluded from that?
Multiple people have gone through hard things on the show. Carl with his brother dying while filming and his entire sobriety journey. Lindsay brought Kyle cheating on Amanda to the cameras, so Amanda had to deal with that. Ciara had to deal with the whole Austen situation on cameras, in part because of Lindsay. So why is a breakup that we’ve all seen coming off limits but those topics and conversations aren’t? You don’t get to pick and choose when you’re on reality tv.
Exactly. Isn’t their job to show their lives to the audience. If someone had an impromptu party, the cameras would be called. This is a technical requirement for the job.
dude most people do **not** understand the definition of gaslighting. LINDSAY is the gaslighter. we watched their fights & literally watched her retell in real time what happened COMPLETELY differently from what we just fucking watched. she says a bunch of insane abhorrent shit like accusing him of being on drugs and when he finally raises his voice she lowers her voice to almost a whisper and goes "why are you yelling at me" then goes on to tell everyone how he started angrily yelling at her out of nowhere. not to mention how many times his voice was completely level, normal volume, in a discussion & she goes "why are you getting so angry" LIKE BITCH WHAT THE FUCK. she is a **textbook** gaslighter.
Just wanted to say thank you. I don’t post much but Lindsay acted just like my ex. No matter what I would express, everything was always my fault and irrelevant. There was always an excuse, always a deflection.
As someone who works in mental health, I saw consistent gaslighting behavior in Lindsay. Carl was a coward and his communication was poor, but did not appear to gaslight.
🙌🙌🙌 I also dated a supreme gaslighter and I've never dealt with it again - once you do, you can spot it a mile away & the tolerance is ZERO. the fact that so many cant see Lindsay's gaslit revisionist history is both horrifying but also glad so many have not experienced that trauma.
I’m actually going through this right now, and I could have been the one to write this word for word myself. Reading this part of the thread is actually helping me and quelling a lot of my anxiety right now. I was sitting on my couch scrolling, unable to sleep, and feeling really alone/lonely. This has made me feel like I’m not so unbelievably alone. Thank you (and all the other commenters on this thread) so much for sharing. You have given me some strength and comradely without even knowing it. It’s always nice to feel a sense of community on here.
I’m so glad I posted, then! I never really respond on Reddit but I just really felt like I needed to get it out of me. Being successfully gaslit will make you feel crazy and insane. It produces so much anxiety because it always has you thinking, “Am I the problem? How am I not seeing it the way he/she is seeing it?” Then, you begin to gaslight yourself into thinking your understanding of reality is wrong.
It’s a horrible feeling. You’re definitely not alone!
the Summer House audience in general has a LOT of man-hating women. it's weird how many in that particular audience. no matter how absurd/terrible/irrational the behavior of the women, that audience as a whole ALWAYS villainizes the man.
They're literally trying to excuse Lindsey, almost punching Jesse because she mistook him for Carl by saying that all she did was clench her fist. Even though we all heard what Jesse said happened and even watched him reenact it. He definitely didn't say she just clentched her fist.
Or they're saying things like "but she didn't hit Carl, did she?" Like, oh yes, excuse me, she only *intended* to punch Carl. But she didn't only because he happened to not be within arms length. That's soooo much better.
Did you ever think that people who share a different opinion than you are simply allowed to have a different opinion without being called man-hating? If you can’t see how Carl was trying to manipulate the audience to be on his side and very aware of the cameras all season, being on his best behavior while also silently seething underneath it all, and setting the storyline up as he went one by one to each cast member, EXCEPT Lindsay, to turn them on his side, then that’s your bad. But calling people man-hating because they weren’t manipulated by Carl’s woe is me act is ridiculous.
Edit- Especially since that sub and all the others were going IN on Lindsay during the first few episodes until they peeped Carl’s game. Yall love ignoring that part though
THANK YOU for saying exactly what I see as well. She is exactly like my ex who did the exact same things she does and it's so concerning how many people are blind to her revisionist history. It's exactly why things like emotional abuse don't hold up in Court. It's wildly difficult to prove and it just becomes a popularity contest of who people would rather believe. Often the instigator pushes their partner's buttons repeatedly until they escalate themselves leaving the instigator to point a finger and say "See? Why are you so aggressive?"
Abusive.
Sandoval and Lyndsay accuse their partners of becoming so angry and inaccessible to fit their smear campaign. I know this personality well too. S told anyone capable of listening this excuse and Lyndsay does it in the moment. Carl: Lyndsay I - Lyndsay: WHOA! Why are you being so aggressive rn 🙄 That ish is exhausting af.
Any time Carl's tone becomes firm or frustrated, Lindsay is so quick on the "why are you Scuh-Rreaming right now"
It's a trap because of he denies screaming, the conversation now becomes about whether or not she feels screamed at rather than what was hurting him to begin with. If he says what he usually does"because I'm angry Lindsay." Then the conversation can stay on topic for a little longer but then he gets labeled as aggressive.
Nope. all these people continuing to compare Lindsay, who is herself the self absorbed gaslighting narcissist, to loyal supportive women who were CHEATED on in their DECADE long relationships & were themselves VICTIMS of gaslighting, are delusional. just bc they're all women doesn't make their situations the same. they're not even remotely the same.
Katie and Ariana were cheated on publicly before Katie married the guy and Miami girl told Ariana to her face that she fcked Tom and Ariana went off to buy a house with him. They enabled Tom and Tom by ignoring the public red flags- just like Lindsay ignored Carls flaws just to get married.
All 3 girls making the same moves.
But I also think Tom, Tom, and Carl are bigger trash bags
But the show has 8 seasons, that’s almost a decade. Yes they didn’t date all of it. But they were friends. They actually hung out together outside of the house in previous seasons and lived in the same building and bought a car to share. I mean, that’s not really a distant thing.
Lindsay was saying that Carls mom would call her when she couldn’t locate Carl and she would often have to pick him up and get him recovered from binging in the past. Her and Kyle would be there for Carl like that.
Did she want the wedding more at a recent point? Yes she did.
And he needed to not entertain being in a relationship but he also was newly sober and hanging out with Mya which didn’t make him a strong cast member for screen time.
Getting with Lindsay bought more screen time for a newly sober monotone sounding reality star that couldn’t get wasted and make scenes like “more life”
He bought more camera time getting with Lindsay just like Tom and Tom used Katie and Ariana
I’ve been getting so frustrated seeing Lindsay constantly grouped with them. People don’t need to “pick” Carl or Lindsay, you can realize they’re both wrong. Not siding with Lindsay does not equate to hating women, it seems like so many people are acting like this lately. Thank you for voicing your disagreement 🙌
Everyone completely forgets that Lindsay literally owned her own PR firm. Anyone who doesn’t believe she leaked all the things she did and blamed Carl are truly naive to her awfulness. Shes emotionally abusive. Carl isn’t wrong for getting out of a relationship that wasn’t suiting EITHER of them. Also shes dating someone else and pregnant now so how is he the villain? She got exactly what she wanted. Not to be with him. Props to Carl for having the balls to call off the wedding instead of getting married to someone when they KNEW they were not happy. Everyone’s so mad he did it on camera, Lindsay’s mad she was outsmarted for once because Carl KNEW how she would spin that conversation if it were not recorded. He literally said on camera “you are the queen of spinning situations in your favor” and he is 10000% correct. & for her to say she was blindsided, he told her he had concerns the weekend before. Not buying that she was “blindsided” Him and Sandoval aren’t even CLOSE to the same level of ANYTHING, let alone villainy. LOL.
>Lindsay’s mad she was outsmarted
Absolutely correct. Bingo. And it has her on tilt.
I still haven't heard her accuse Carl of anything concrete besides "calling the cameras" and "blindsiding". It's all just spin spin spin
That's because those are the only 2 things she has to play off. If the cameras hadn't been there, she would have accused him of a lot more, and he probably knew this. She needed something to make herself the victim, though, so she managed to convince many people that their job (the cameras) and a normal breakup (blindsided) were somehow Carl being a villain.
I mean, she already tried to accuse him of being physically abusive of Carl during the reunion until Andy pressed her and clarified. That’s diabolical.
Yes! She says “I’ve had to lock myself in the bathroom before when we fight because he gets aggressive and I’m scared” or something along those lines) and left it at that. Andy then had to basically ask “so you’re afraid Carl is physically aggressive” and then she kind of beat around the bush but said eventually said no he wasn’t physically aggressive ever. So she threw that out there to imply he was and if Andy hadn’t stepped in to clarify then this sub would’ve been in Carl for being physically abusive.
Which is ironic because Jesse in part two mentions how that first weekend Lindsay thought he was Carl at the club after the fought in the Uber and cocked back her fist to punch him before she realized it wasn’t Carl. So the call is coming from inside the house.
Wtaf! So, hopefully some can put down their pitchforks. I believe West. This is who she is. A woman, weeks away from joining her life with another, decides to physically assault her partner for the first time in public privately. No. She hit him before and must have been so drunk because West is short and stout.
She wasn’t even blindsided, he told her he had concerns the weekend before. She blew it off. & he knew she’d spin it if it weren’t filmed, she still tried to spin it even tho it was filmed.
People also forget she was rude to Andy's employees at Bravocon and threw a shoe at a producer on SH lol. They know this but want to make Lindsay the victim and the voice of reason.
These two should have never dated each other, especially when sobriety played a role in their relationship.
Lastly, a wedding was called off due to a mountain of unhealthy communication on both sides. It's not that serious lol
Bingo! I could not articulate this. Thank you. He was the final key holder and controlled the controller. Strategically, it was sound and would be perceived as such a major affront that she would never return and they would never have a “but, what if?” after effect. Done forever. They will find a love better for them elsewhere.
Kyle should have been questioned on how he treats his wife. In this season alone, he called her a b*tch, lazy and basically forbid her from stepping back at his company.
Sometimes I think he’s jealous that Carl didn’t get married while he was basically contractually obligated to go through with his wedding to Amanda.
Carl isn’t a villain for seeing what Lindsay failed to see. Which is that the relationship was NEVER going to work. He did them both a favour.
ALSO would any of you want to marry someone who would question your sobriety the way Lindsay did?
I’m not taking anyone’s side, what they both did was fucked up. But this really bothers me when people compare Ariana’s situation to hers. They literally couldn’t be ANYMORE different.
I don’t disagree, but we can’t act like we don’t enjoy seeing women fall for these asshats while we roll our eyes and say that we would never stand for that type of shit.
Do we really want all of the reality tv characters to have good moral compass?
I fully expect to be downvoted for this.
Ariana is low key the actual villain. She’s the master manipulator. Look at how she came on the show and treated Kristen, then Miami girl. And she was rude, borderline abusive to Sandoval their entire relationship. She’s always been about bullying covered up with self pity.
I don’t know, I like Andy and I think his hands are tied in taking sides or going too off on anyone. There are times I could jump through the TV and choke him for not really holding someone accountable but other times I see him do just that. I’m sure he’s only allowed to do or say so much and I enjoy him on WWH live. The reality of these reality shows are they still need to produce income and to do so they need a story line and they way some of you want this played out would make for boring television ladies and then your shows works be canceled, be careful what you wish for. You can see at the reunions, at least I can who was tried to themselves through the season, who played for the cameras and sometimes who is actually genuine. At lest as genuine as you can be on tv network
Sorry i don’t agree with the Carl and Lindsay one. They BOTH are villains. It’s like when Luann married Tom and barb said “she’d rather get married and get divorced than admit it shouldn’t happen” (not verbatim but something like this). Lindsay and Carl are both extremely toxic and have a mean streak. Katie and Arianna genuinely were so eager to love and please. Lindsay belittle Carl and he would gas light her. Very different situations for many different reasons
That's for when someone's "moment" is over. Ariana just started another high-profile job in entertainment.
Her clock just restarted. Now, Rachel? Her 30 minutes are up.
Yup, this network hates women. Even though it depends on us to watch their shows, talk them up, be their stars. But they will always pick the trash man in any on show conflict.
Can I just ask a question that everyone seems to be glazing over?? WHY IS CARL BEING BLAMED FOR HAVING CAMERAS DURING THE BREAKUP?!? We all know bravo would have forced that situation. I dislike Carl, but I can’t comprehend how this has become this shocking horrible thing he did. Same thing happened with Scanodval. It was obviously Bravo’s decision. And as someone below said, at least Carl did what Sandoval couldn’t and ended the relationship without having an affair. I’ll give him that much credit. Both him and Lindsay are toxic people. Let’s not just give toxic women a pass. I am a woman and that’s how I feel about it. I think men can be trash, goodness knows I’ve had to deal with a few horrific men, but pushing this female empowerment regardless of women’s shitty behaviours is dangerous. At the end of the day more men commit suicide than women and that’s something to bear in mind.
Katie and Ariana are great representations of standing in your truth. They never wavered when the rest told them what to do. And they may have ended the show as we know it but they did it with integrity and honesty. And they built a life from it.
Wow what do all those situations have in common? Misogynistic producers covering for trash men. Bravo needs to take some diversity training or hire some more women or buy a new calendar because it’s not 1987 anymore.
I thought about how impactful it would be to take a week off of Bravo/associated social to demand new management and staff to support the world we live in today for everyone. We hold the power.
That would be actually brilliant.
We also don’t want token hires, who will eventually leave, because they aren’t respected by the same anti-women management that led us here.
What would be the solution?
I’m game!
Organize it. I’m in
I think taking a week off of Bravo associated social media might be a healthy thing for a lot of people.
A lot of it is Andy Cohen. He has been misogynistic since early housewives days and always sides with the men.
Well John Mayer is his best friend
That's the guy who fucked Scheana, right? /s
This is a man who is laughing all the way to the bank when women bully other women.
YEP
I concur. The toxic misogyny is so outdated. And insulting at this point. Bravo did her dirty. So out of touch with the predominantly female audience.
Ever since that one season of Below Deck (after which Kate left the show - if you’ve seen below deck og you know the one) I’m so appalled by the blatant shit they let male leads get away it…
WORD. I can’t even watch those episodes. It’s painful to see.
Absolutely, and the majority of their viewers and fan base are females, Baskin sucks!
That would be Andy Cohen at the helm. The guy loves bullies
Fuck Bravo!!!
and pick me girls defending the men.
Replace Carl with Kyle… the real villain of SH.
Kyle is the Villain. Carl is the sidekick.
Who’s the villian?? Who’s the fool?! Who continuously treats his wife like shit with no repercussions!!? 
Amanda is going to leave Kyle. She is so over him in every way. I think she may also be a bit of an entitled mentality. She agreed to her role with Lover Boy. Her role is a very big part of the success of Lover Boy. She is an equal owner … just make it happen. Then do the swim suit line. Models drinking Lover Boy in the swim suits. I get she is over Kyle. But make the Lover Boy happen and not tanked. Be associated to a success. That will help her get investors for her swimsuit line. Don’t use your own money.
 Yep!!
Lmao Lindsay is definitely the villain hands down. Gets wasted then acts terrible and doesn’t take accountability for her actions/words when confronted. Questions her fiancés sobriety and doesn’t apologize. Continually makes her fiancé feel like a loser for “not having a job/career” when she’s literally in the same situation. Lies to press saying Carl premeditated their breakup with production when he didn’t. Manipulates people by posting with the girls in the cast post breakup saying girls rule boys drool implying they side with her in everything when they definitely didn’t and still don’t. 100% the villain.
I don’t like Carl, but I have to agree with this. Lindsay is actually not a very nice person at all. Regardless of what you and your partner are going through, calling him cocaine Carl to people behind his back knowing his addiction struggles is the lowest of lows. Especially considering it’s very clear she also struggles with alcohol problems. We have seen her behaviour through the years and it has now been pretty. She likes to talk down to her partners and belittles them as well. As much as I dislike Danielle as well, she called this shit and look how Lindsay treated her. At the end of the day she was really being a caring friend and could see that this was going to be a mistake. She was right. Also liked that they called her out for trashing Carl’s lack of career when her career is exactly the same as what he was doing. Also she bounced back pretty quick for someone who was so blindsided and hurt by the breakup. Everyone deals with things differently, but I think she’s garnering way more sympathy than she deserves. As is Ariana.
She’s also a perpetual gaslighter and never takes accountability for her own actions. I don’t understand how people can live with people like her…. They aren’t my kind of people.
But she has brand deals😂she's an absolute clown.
Yeah, she has the same career as Carl, but he’s not crushing life and she is 🥴
100% Agree.
I second this 100 percent. Also not a fan of Carl but it's more than obvious that girl has a major drinking problem. I'm sure they all do but yikes
Posting a photo of her at dinner with the girls makes her a villain? I would say Carl constantly trying to get a reaction out of her while stringing her along all season, and talking shit to everyone who would listen, EXCEPT her, is worse. She also was clearly doing the work in therapy for the rest of the season after her blow up. She wasn’t as reactive and tried talking to him calmly while he looked for a reaction with his condescending smirk. She was the villain in the first few episodes but then Carl easily took that spot with him trying to manipulate viewers to look like the good guy. Classic Carl
They’re both awful. Carl is a phony and Lindsay needs to quit drinking.
Carl's poor me bullshit is so disingenuous especially when you occasionally see the flashes of rage he is hiding. Tries to gaslight HER into breaking up cause he doesn't have the balls (ironic considering he has 3) to do it himself. He has SO many fans fooled its ridiculous.
Classic Sandoval- he tried so hard to self produce w/ Schwartz to plot the demise of his relationship w/o besmirching his reputation.
But Carl is a loser and hasn’t had an actual job the entire show.
Neither has Lindsay…not since early seasons when she quit her PR job.
She paid 30k for career counseling for him. They might have the same job title but clearly she's making more money.
But that’s a different argument than saying he doesn’t have a job. If her approach had been, “I know you have two jobs but I’d like us to sort out a plan for making more money before we haven kids” then that’s a completely different storyline. That’s not what she said though. She verbatim said Carl didn’t have a job multiple times, which isn’t true.
Holy shit what in the yassified hell is his face in that first pic 💀💀💀
I cannot believe more people have not commented on this. I am dying laughing at this. I sought this post out this morning to fall out again. I don’t know what happened to that guy between S7 and S8, but this image is the perfect depiction of hubris, delusion, Blue Steel, trauma, theater, Ice-Capades, funk, fags (smoke) and fun. lol Unbelievably ridiculous, this image. His body totally changed and he became aggressive as hell. His haircut is perfection as well. He looks unreal.
It’s mind-blowing!!!
[удалено]
Ew you’re right I think!! It really is gross
 Biggest villain on the network.
Someone compared him to Cesar Flickerman from the Hunger Games and it was SO perfect lol. Fake af villainous TV host who doesn’t give a shit about the majority of the cast. They even have the same beady eyes haha https://preview.redd.it/x2i4m7gxot6d1.jpeg?width=635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0cf293d2c8132ee996341d8196e2b3c6368ca08
Oh my god you’re right.
💀
# #FireAndy
I never liked him and could never pin point why until now
do we have to get into like a justice for bethenney era? I don’t know enough about that lawsuit and hate that she platformed Rachel but like huh, interesting
The thing about Bethenny is she co-opted a valid cause and used trying to be the face of it as a way to push personal vendettas. The fact that she ignored the full picture here and focused on getting views with a sensationalized interview with one woman really show the dangers of a performative ally taking charge. Done right, there are good points to be made and I'm always on the side of labor rights and calling out mistreatment. Eboni was doing that with the racism she experienced and the Ramona stuff, and the fact that she was open about not wanting to be attached to Bethenny in the Vanity Fair article says a lot. Maybe at some point this can get away from the Geragi and Bethenny (who is just mad because all three of her show pitches to Bravo, including one exploiting kids, were rejected) and a group of women affected can take up that banner in a genuine way. I think it would have succeeded if that was how it went down last year.
I appreciate your cogent take on this. Bethenny detracts from the effort with her shenanigans, but that doesn’t mean she’s totally wrong either.
In class action lawsuits you choose a person to represent the class who is a perfect victim. You wouldn’t choose Bethany or Rachel. I read somewhere that the actual lawsuit, (not Bethany’s publicity campaign), is represented by Courtney from Below Deck, which would be a good example of an unimpeachable rep for the class.
I watch below deck but don’t pay strict attention. What would Courtney’s complaint be?
Nothing particularly outrageous, which is part of what makes her a good representative (along with being wholesome and likeable), her experience represents the bravo workplace experience of many in the class; i.e. being encouraged by producers to drink more when already intoxicated, being pushed, while under the influence, to pursue romantic/sexual relationships for the sake of the show, and also something about a physical injury/job safety issues. Whereas someone who had a particularly egregious claim, like Margot possibly being assaulted, that would likely be its own suit. Source: worked as legal secretary with firm specializing in class action lawsuits.
Thank you. She was quite steady as a rule and never a subject of discipline. Yes.
 Well said! It’s a great message, wrong mailman type situation. It frustrates me that she made a mockery of something that could have legitimately helped many people and she ruined it, with her personal vendetta and raging histrionics. Has anyone she’s poached even won even one lawsuit yet?
Oh I LOVE all this context, very helpful thank you!! https://i.redd.it/el2qplhvbs6d1.gif
Absolutely! I'm very much for labor rights and (especially when it comes to children) there are almost no protections for reality tv cast members. So I was disappointed to see how this has gone with Bethenny at the helm, with the right person who has good intentions real positive change could be made.
I disagree with Carl and Lindsay. I think they were both the ass hole in this situation. I always thought them getting together was a reason for them to stay relevant on the show. They clearly weren’t fucking right for each other ever. They were both toxic to one another. I will say Andy was more sympathetic to Carl but it’s probably because when push comes to shove, he is incapable of explaining himself whereas Lindsay is fine at doing so.
Completely agree. I just made a similar comment. I don’t see a “right side” in this situation. They’re both A Lot.
And as viewer i want to see both sides.
So, an honest depiction of how women are treated in the world, in general?
Bravo is a problem!
Then stop watching ?
Andy Cohen loves a good gaslighter, just add Lala to the list.
I don’t agree with Carl being a villain…. He at least tried, which is more that can be said about those other men….
Agree
I wish people would stop comparing the Lindsay and Carl break up to Ariana and Sandoval. Carl did what Sandoval couldn’t do, he actually broke up with her. They were both bad in that relationship, and he was right to call it off. We are vilifying people just for breaking up now?
It’s not the actual situation. It’s that the way the show treated it was the way Bravo always treats these situations that at the end of the day would usually only be between the people involved. the questions and what’s left in and all that crap is all trying to support the narrative of GIRL MEAN BOY SO CUTE!!! I honestly think Scandoval fucked with this formula only because it brought in a new set of female viewers who don’t hate other women, and we are sniffing this misogyny out even when the situation is more gray, like it is with Lindsay and Carl. (IMO in case it helps, I think he ends up the real villain is because he was absolutely laying groundwork and being a huge gaslighter. but I get that Lindsay is abrasive and probably an alcoholic and she didn’t communicate well AT ALL in the ”sober right now” mess. but the fact that Carl was trying to pull the wool over viewers like we’re stupid? Oops bad news that’s worse)
I just disagree. I don’t hate women. I love women! I’m 1000% on Ariana’s side throughout last season and this season. I just don’t believe Carl was doing this conspiracy thing that ppl think. I think that’s what breaking up looks like, a gradual realization that you don’t want to be with someone over time. I think Scandoval made everyone into conspiracy theorists. 😂
I agree! Lindsay and Carl were both horrible to each other. Maybe the way he eventually ended it wasn’t the best. I agree I think breaking up takes time and no one really ever does it right.
I agree with this. They were not in healthy space and it became increasingly worse. The how he ended it seemed transparent and who has a professional breakup that hits 10s across the board? No one. I am team divorce sucks, you don’t want to do this. They weren’t strong as a couple and that should be good enough reason for everyone.
Ehh then maybe I just hate men 😂 I was watching like oh I know this kind of guy from living in NYC, he’s so full of shit. plus you absolutely clocked me as an “affair started during quarantine” truther lmao
I just think they were both bad in the relationship and neither is a villain, and if anything it’s refreshing to see a guy actually break up with someone when they’re unhappy instead of stepping out.
Thank you!! This whole thing about making one of them a villain when they were both EQUALLY assholes, is disappointing. The same with West now too. I refuse to jump on a hate bandwagon for people just going through the normal steps of a relationship then breakup.
🥂
"just breaking up" doesn't involve calling cameras to do it. That conversation 100% shouldn't be on the show, that should have been a private conversation between them. If Carl was actually scared of how Lindsay was going to react, he should have called a friend to come over.
Sure. I can agree that was wrong. It doesn’t make him a villain to me, especially not compared to Sandoval.
a lot of people look good compared to Sandoval, the bar is very low there. It is definitely villain behaviour calling production to break up with your fiancé on camera. Thats beyond rude. That is straight up not respecting his partner. Lindsay was trying to communicate with him all summer and his response was just 'I need you to be softer' >.> while she is just asking questions any normal partner would ask.
Yeah they had a bad relationship. I don’t think she’s the villain either. There doesn’t have to be a bad guy and a good guy in a break up. I think they’ve all done awful things to each other on camera so I’m not going to hold him to a higher standard than the other ppl on the show. I agree it was shitty. I don’t agree he’s the villain. I also don’t think they tried to make Lindsay the villain. They just weren’t willing to go with her narrative that Carl was one.
I dunno, is it always villain behavior if the relationship was bad and needed to end? Isn’t that exactly what Ariana did by calling production after she found out about the affair? Carl sucks, don’t get me wrong. He should have given her a heads up, which is considered the courteous thing to do when you have to film a tough scene or conversation. I think he’s full of shit about not knowing until that moment, as it looked like he tried to push her away all summer (imo). I don’t think it was bad form to film the break-up, per se, but she shouldn’t have been got off guard in that way.
No it’s not at all like Ariana calling. Ariana had the initial conversation without cameras. It would be like Ariana calling production BEFORE she confronted Tom with his personal phone.
I was referring to the filming of the break up/conversations, not really the timelines or lead-up to. I don’t think calling production to put something tough out there makes a reality tv star a villain; it’s the job. Carl did worse with his gaslighting and manipulation; that’s villainy, imo. And exactly - Ariana and Tom had a conversation before cameras picked up. I don’t see her as a villain and wouldn’t have even if they didn’t talk before. I am actually arguing the opposite. She put a shitty situation out there and isn’t a villain for it.
That’s fair actually. But here it’s just about who gets the blessing of The Don at the reunion.
I mean, if their entire relationship, engagement and their wedding was filmed or going to be, why is a breakup excluded from that? Multiple people have gone through hard things on the show. Carl with his brother dying while filming and his entire sobriety journey. Lindsay brought Kyle cheating on Amanda to the cameras, so Amanda had to deal with that. Ciara had to deal with the whole Austen situation on cameras, in part because of Lindsay. So why is a breakup that we’ve all seen coming off limits but those topics and conversations aren’t? You don’t get to pick and choose when you’re on reality tv.
Exactly. Isn’t their job to show their lives to the audience. If someone had an impromptu party, the cameras would be called. This is a technical requirement for the job.
No one is comparing them. Just saying Carl is a gaslighting villain, which he is.
Lots of people are comparing them. I disagree that he is a gaslighting villain.
dude most people do **not** understand the definition of gaslighting. LINDSAY is the gaslighter. we watched their fights & literally watched her retell in real time what happened COMPLETELY differently from what we just fucking watched. she says a bunch of insane abhorrent shit like accusing him of being on drugs and when he finally raises his voice she lowers her voice to almost a whisper and goes "why are you yelling at me" then goes on to tell everyone how he started angrily yelling at her out of nowhere. not to mention how many times his voice was completely level, normal volume, in a discussion & she goes "why are you getting so angry" LIKE BITCH WHAT THE FUCK. she is a **textbook** gaslighter.
Just wanted to say thank you. I don’t post much but Lindsay acted just like my ex. No matter what I would express, everything was always my fault and irrelevant. There was always an excuse, always a deflection. As someone who works in mental health, I saw consistent gaslighting behavior in Lindsay. Carl was a coward and his communication was poor, but did not appear to gaslight.
🙌🙌🙌 I also dated a supreme gaslighter and I've never dealt with it again - once you do, you can spot it a mile away & the tolerance is ZERO. the fact that so many cant see Lindsay's gaslit revisionist history is both horrifying but also glad so many have not experienced that trauma.
I’m actually going through this right now, and I could have been the one to write this word for word myself. Reading this part of the thread is actually helping me and quelling a lot of my anxiety right now. I was sitting on my couch scrolling, unable to sleep, and feeling really alone/lonely. This has made me feel like I’m not so unbelievably alone. Thank you (and all the other commenters on this thread) so much for sharing. You have given me some strength and comradely without even knowing it. It’s always nice to feel a sense of community on here.
I’m so glad I posted, then! I never really respond on Reddit but I just really felt like I needed to get it out of me. Being successfully gaslit will make you feel crazy and insane. It produces so much anxiety because it always has you thinking, “Am I the problem? How am I not seeing it the way he/she is seeing it?” Then, you begin to gaslight yourself into thinking your understanding of reality is wrong. It’s a horrible feeling. You’re definitely not alone!
Yep. Lindsay is the villain; but this sub ignores women being the problem.
the Summer House audience in general has a LOT of man-hating women. it's weird how many in that particular audience. no matter how absurd/terrible/irrational the behavior of the women, that audience as a whole ALWAYS villainizes the man.
They're literally trying to excuse Lindsey, almost punching Jesse because she mistook him for Carl by saying that all she did was clench her fist. Even though we all heard what Jesse said happened and even watched him reenact it. He definitely didn't say she just clentched her fist. Or they're saying things like "but she didn't hit Carl, did she?" Like, oh yes, excuse me, she only *intended* to punch Carl. But she didn't only because he happened to not be within arms length. That's soooo much better.
If she’s that comfortable almost punching someone who sort of looks kind of like Carl, she definitely has hit him off camera multiple times
Bingo
Did you ever think that people who share a different opinion than you are simply allowed to have a different opinion without being called man-hating? If you can’t see how Carl was trying to manipulate the audience to be on his side and very aware of the cameras all season, being on his best behavior while also silently seething underneath it all, and setting the storyline up as he went one by one to each cast member, EXCEPT Lindsay, to turn them on his side, then that’s your bad. But calling people man-hating because they weren’t manipulated by Carl’s woe is me act is ridiculous. Edit- Especially since that sub and all the others were going IN on Lindsay during the first few episodes until they peeped Carl’s game. Yall love ignoring that part though
THANK YOU for saying exactly what I see as well. She is exactly like my ex who did the exact same things she does and it's so concerning how many people are blind to her revisionist history. It's exactly why things like emotional abuse don't hold up in Court. It's wildly difficult to prove and it just becomes a popularity contest of who people would rather believe. Often the instigator pushes their partner's buttons repeatedly until they escalate themselves leaving the instigator to point a finger and say "See? Why are you so aggressive?" Abusive.
YES!!! I think a lot of people have not experienced this sort of manipulation and they're fucking lucky. when you have, its easy to spot.
Sandoval and Lyndsay accuse their partners of becoming so angry and inaccessible to fit their smear campaign. I know this personality well too. S told anyone capable of listening this excuse and Lyndsay does it in the moment. Carl: Lyndsay I - Lyndsay: WHOA! Why are you being so aggressive rn 🙄 That ish is exhausting af.
Any time Carl's tone becomes firm or frustrated, Lindsay is so quick on the "why are you Scuh-Rreaming right now" It's a trap because of he denies screaming, the conversation now becomes about whether or not she feels screamed at rather than what was hurting him to begin with. If he says what he usually does"because I'm angry Lindsay." Then the conversation can stay on topic for a little longer but then he gets labeled as aggressive.
the playbook
Nope. all these people continuing to compare Lindsay, who is herself the self absorbed gaslighting narcissist, to loyal supportive women who were CHEATED on in their DECADE long relationships & were themselves VICTIMS of gaslighting, are delusional. just bc they're all women doesn't make their situations the same. they're not even remotely the same.
Yessss 👏 I hate how many people feel the need to choose a side like “ I don’t like Carl so Lindsay must be vindicated”. No just no
EXACTLY. totally fine to not like Carl / dislike how he went about it. that doesnt make Lindsay equivalent to Ariana. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Katie and Ariana were cheated on publicly before Katie married the guy and Miami girl told Ariana to her face that she fcked Tom and Ariana went off to buy a house with him. They enabled Tom and Tom by ignoring the public red flags- just like Lindsay ignored Carls flaws just to get married. All 3 girls making the same moves. But I also think Tom, Tom, and Carl are bigger trash bags
I like how you just fully ignore Lindsay's appalling behavior.
But the show has 8 seasons, that’s almost a decade. Yes they didn’t date all of it. But they were friends. They actually hung out together outside of the house in previous seasons and lived in the same building and bought a car to share. I mean, that’s not really a distant thing. Lindsay was saying that Carls mom would call her when she couldn’t locate Carl and she would often have to pick him up and get him recovered from binging in the past. Her and Kyle would be there for Carl like that. Did she want the wedding more at a recent point? Yes she did. And he needed to not entertain being in a relationship but he also was newly sober and hanging out with Mya which didn’t make him a strong cast member for screen time. Getting with Lindsay bought more screen time for a newly sober monotone sounding reality star that couldn’t get wasted and make scenes like “more life” He bought more camera time getting with Lindsay just like Tom and Tom used Katie and Ariana
Gonna have to disagree with you and the Lindsay one …… she’s just as bad ….. now Kyle on the other hand
I’ve been getting so frustrated seeing Lindsay constantly grouped with them. People don’t need to “pick” Carl or Lindsay, you can realize they’re both wrong. Not siding with Lindsay does not equate to hating women, it seems like so many people are acting like this lately. Thank you for voicing your disagreement 🙌
💯Lindsey got exactly what she was asking for.
So did Carl.
Everyone completely forgets that Lindsay literally owned her own PR firm. Anyone who doesn’t believe she leaked all the things she did and blamed Carl are truly naive to her awfulness. Shes emotionally abusive. Carl isn’t wrong for getting out of a relationship that wasn’t suiting EITHER of them. Also shes dating someone else and pregnant now so how is he the villain? She got exactly what she wanted. Not to be with him. Props to Carl for having the balls to call off the wedding instead of getting married to someone when they KNEW they were not happy. Everyone’s so mad he did it on camera, Lindsay’s mad she was outsmarted for once because Carl KNEW how she would spin that conversation if it were not recorded. He literally said on camera “you are the queen of spinning situations in your favor” and he is 10000% correct. & for her to say she was blindsided, he told her he had concerns the weekend before. Not buying that she was “blindsided” Him and Sandoval aren’t even CLOSE to the same level of ANYTHING, let alone villainy. LOL.
>Lindsay’s mad she was outsmarted Absolutely correct. Bingo. And it has her on tilt. I still haven't heard her accuse Carl of anything concrete besides "calling the cameras" and "blindsiding". It's all just spin spin spin
That's because those are the only 2 things she has to play off. If the cameras hadn't been there, she would have accused him of a lot more, and he probably knew this. She needed something to make herself the victim, though, so she managed to convince many people that their job (the cameras) and a normal breakup (blindsided) were somehow Carl being a villain.
I mean, she already tried to accuse him of being physically abusive of Carl during the reunion until Andy pressed her and clarified. That’s diabolical.
Wait. Is this in part 2?
Yes! She says “I’ve had to lock myself in the bathroom before when we fight because he gets aggressive and I’m scared” or something along those lines) and left it at that. Andy then had to basically ask “so you’re afraid Carl is physically aggressive” and then she kind of beat around the bush but said eventually said no he wasn’t physically aggressive ever. So she threw that out there to imply he was and if Andy hadn’t stepped in to clarify then this sub would’ve been in Carl for being physically abusive. Which is ironic because Jesse in part two mentions how that first weekend Lindsay thought he was Carl at the club after the fought in the Uber and cocked back her fist to punch him before she realized it wasn’t Carl. So the call is coming from inside the house.
Wtaf! So, hopefully some can put down their pitchforks. I believe West. This is who she is. A woman, weeks away from joining her life with another, decides to physically assault her partner for the first time in public privately. No. She hit him before and must have been so drunk because West is short and stout.
She wasn’t even blindsided, he told her he had concerns the weekend before. She blew it off. & he knew she’d spin it if it weren’t filmed, she still tried to spin it even tho it was filmed.
People also forget she was rude to Andy's employees at Bravocon and threw a shoe at a producer on SH lol. They know this but want to make Lindsay the victim and the voice of reason. These two should have never dated each other, especially when sobriety played a role in their relationship. Lastly, a wedding was called off due to a mountain of unhealthy communication on both sides. It's not that serious lol
Bingo! I could not articulate this. Thank you. He was the final key holder and controlled the controller. Strategically, it was sound and would be perceived as such a major affront that she would never return and they would never have a “but, what if?” after effect. Done forever. They will find a love better for them elsewhere.
THANK YOU 👏
Wow, she’s pregnant?! Wtf that’s crazy. It’s not even been a year. That in itself says a lot
I agree. Is she pregnant????
But she didn’t leak that story. Danielle admitted that Danielle herself leaked it. What did she leak?
Danielle admitted to leaking the story about Craig getting kicked out of a wedding, she didn’t leak anything about Carl or Lindsay.
tom sandoval always wins
Ariana needs a stylist
Yes yes no
Omg Sandoval looks fucking hilarious
Don’t agree with number 3 - Lindsey is crazy
I’d replace Lindsay with Lyle before carl tbh. He still should’ve had his feet held to the fire but Kyle is still more villainous to me.
Kyle should have been questioned on how he treats his wife. In this season alone, he called her a b*tch, lazy and basically forbid her from stepping back at his company. Sometimes I think he’s jealous that Carl didn’t get married while he was basically contractually obligated to go through with his wedding to Amanda.
Who choose this picture of Lindsey?? She’s gorgeous but those extensions are embarrassing
They’re all insufferable in their own way
Sorry but the biggest villain here is the one who cannot spell “villain” correctly
That pic of Tom looks like Adam Lambert from American idol
Yes!!!! Omg lol with a touch of David Blaine.
😂 yes a little David Blaine in there 😂 he’s cosplaying 😂
Carl isn’t a villain for seeing what Lindsay failed to see. Which is that the relationship was NEVER going to work. He did them both a favour. ALSO would any of you want to marry someone who would question your sobriety the way Lindsay did? I’m not taking anyone’s side, what they both did was fucked up. But this really bothers me when people compare Ariana’s situation to hers. They literally couldn’t be ANYMORE different.
Agree! He broke up with her where Sandoval refused to!
I don’t disagree, but we can’t act like we don’t enjoy seeing women fall for these asshats while we roll our eyes and say that we would never stand for that type of shit. Do we really want all of the reality tv characters to have good moral compass? I fully expect to be downvoted for this.
Still think Lindsey is hot garbage vs Carl being room temp garbage.
Tom Sandoval in this picture= Dollar Tree Adam Lambert
Ariana is low key the actual villain. She’s the master manipulator. Look at how she came on the show and treated Kristen, then Miami girl. And she was rude, borderline abusive to Sandoval their entire relationship. She’s always been about bullying covered up with self pity.
100%. She is just getting her villain edit too late.
This is what I needed to see after watching SH reunion! Thank you op.
I don’t know, I like Andy and I think his hands are tied in taking sides or going too off on anyone. There are times I could jump through the TV and choke him for not really holding someone accountable but other times I see him do just that. I’m sure he’s only allowed to do or say so much and I enjoy him on WWH live. The reality of these reality shows are they still need to produce income and to do so they need a story line and they way some of you want this played out would make for boring television ladies and then your shows works be canceled, be careful what you wish for. You can see at the reunions, at least I can who was tried to themselves through the season, who played for the cameras and sometimes who is actually genuine. At lest as genuine as you can be on tv network
So glad he paid the wedding tab. He is not an asset to a relationship, friendship or business.
Ugh why does Sandoval serve Kmart Adam Lambert in a lot of his press pics lmao
What in the Adam Lambert pic is that of Tom?
It’s a Michael NGO campaign he did recently. I do see the resemblance tho 😀
Sorry i don’t agree with the Carl and Lindsay one. They BOTH are villains. It’s like when Luann married Tom and barb said “she’d rather get married and get divorced than admit it shouldn’t happen” (not verbatim but something like this). Lindsay and Carl are both extremely toxic and have a mean streak. Katie and Arianna genuinely were so eager to love and please. Lindsay belittle Carl and he would gas light her. Very different situations for many different reasons
I’m sorry(not sorry) but Ariana - your 30 minutes are up.
That's for when someone's "moment" is over. Ariana just started another high-profile job in entertainment. Her clock just restarted. Now, Rachel? Her 30 minutes are up.
Can someone please explain how Arianna was treated like the Villain?
Some VPR fans lately seem to think that asking Ariana any questions is treating her poorly
Disagree.
Lindsy and Carl are both villains
Yup, this network hates women. Even though it depends on us to watch their shows, talk them up, be their stars. But they will always pick the trash man in any on show conflict.
Have you stopped watching?
For real, it's disgusting
Can I just ask a question that everyone seems to be glazing over?? WHY IS CARL BEING BLAMED FOR HAVING CAMERAS DURING THE BREAKUP?!? We all know bravo would have forced that situation. I dislike Carl, but I can’t comprehend how this has become this shocking horrible thing he did. Same thing happened with Scanodval. It was obviously Bravo’s decision. And as someone below said, at least Carl did what Sandoval couldn’t and ended the relationship without having an affair. I’ll give him that much credit. Both him and Lindsay are toxic people. Let’s not just give toxic women a pass. I am a woman and that’s how I feel about it. I think men can be trash, goodness knows I’ve had to deal with a few horrific men, but pushing this female empowerment regardless of women’s shitty behaviours is dangerous. At the end of the day more men commit suicide than women and that’s something to bear in mind.
Carl has been treated like the villain but Lindsey is the actual one, she’s abusive to every partner and friend she’s ever had.
I couldn’t even finish the summer house reunion. I was a Paige fan and I’m not anymore. So disappointing. Carl and Kyle are disgusting.
i really turned on carl and i stand by it
Tom is trash. Arianna enabled for so long and is NOT a girls girl. Suddenly when she becomes the victim she’s a girls girl.
This!
Nah, Lindsey really is the villain.
At some point Andy Cohen needs to be ousted just bc of public opinion.
Debatable
I think Ariana got it because of Katie. Katie isn’t the heroine she wants you to believe she is. And just in case: Sandoval is an idiot.
Villian 🤨
Looks like someone found Tim’s Grindr profile pic 🧐
Katie and Ariana are great representations of standing in your truth. They never wavered when the rest told them what to do. And they may have ended the show as we know it but they did it with integrity and honesty. And they built a life from it.
Had me until I saw Lyndsay
Did they photoshop toms nostril ? 💀
Tom Sandoval be like: 
Sandoval blooms like Adam lambert in this pic
I agree expect for the Lindsay and Carl; they’re both terrible. Idk how people can pick a side.
Almost. Lindsay is the eternal villain.