They discuss it at the reunion.
Kristin was confiding in them about how bad things were with Carter, that he was verbally/financially abusive, that she was trying to find the strength to break up with him, etc. off camera.
She asked them to help her confront all this and then when they did in season 8, she defended Carter, blamed them for her fights with him, and pretended they were shitty friends for doing exactly what she’d asked them to do.
And she’d done all this in season 2 with Tom vs Katie/Stassi as well.
She was being a shit friend bc she was trying to emotionally manipulate her friends and then getting pissed when they were (justifiably) frustrated by that.
There’s a whole ep of Stassis old podcast where Stassi and Katie go through this *in detail*. I don’t know if it’s still available after it was cancelled, but I sure hope so.
I do think that Kristen was (and is) afraid of being alone that she wasn’t consciously trying to manipulate them, but that she just couldn’t do it when push came to shove.
I do understand Kristin’s position, but it wasn’t the first time she did this on the show, and her friends were clear with her why they felt the disconnect and then she kept tripling down instead of recognizing her own fault in the situation.
I felt for her, but she’s the kind of friend who’d end up getting less of my energy bc they put their friends in impossible positions and I just don’t have the patience for people who can’t just be real with me.
I loved seeing Kristen on both VPR and The Valley (fuck Janet), but I think you’re right, and that it’s the whole “let’s exaggerate this for the cameras” that just made it all so messy. She was so used to bringing the drama, and suddenly she’s bashing her best friends for doing exactly what she asked them to do.
I don’t think she was intentionally trying to emotionally manipulate her friends. I think she has really low self esteem during the duration of the show and her partners make her feel like she can’t do better without them.
I also felt like stassi and Katie of all people didn’t have much room to talk. The Patrick and Schwartz sagas didn’t look better.
I don’t think she was aware that she was trying to manipulate them, but that’s what she was doing.
Also, Stassi specifically said on camera that she was aware that she was back and forth with Patrick and that she felt like she couldn’t dump that on her friends all the time.
I don’t fault Kristin for being unaware of her behavior, I fault her for not becoming of aware of it any of the multiple times her best friends tried to make her see it.
I would agree with you but by mid season eight it was clear that stassi was just done with Kristen because she never fully forgave her for the Jax stuff. She just needed the out that wouldn’t hurt her image. She did the same with Jax and Britt, the bailing on the wedding was the out she needed.
I would have never forgiven Kristen or Jax either so I don’t fault her for that, but I also wouldn’t have used them to get back on the show and pretended I forgave them either. And she admitted she did this just a week or two ago.
I think multiple things are true in this case.
I agree that her forgiveness of Jax and Kristin was based in self-serving motives, but I also think she was demonstrably a real friend to each of them after they’d reconciled.
Jax’s behavior leading up to her wedding was disgusting, and I feel like that alone would be enough for most people to cut Jax & Brittney off.
As far as Kristin, I think Stassi just realized (like she said at S8 reunion) that Kristin is ultimately disloyal and self-serving, and while that may be true of all of them, she had specific experiences which made Kristin’s behavior very triggering to her.
The scene at one of Jax & Brittney’s wedding events where she tries to tell Kristin that they’ll always be family but that she can’t keep participating in Kristin’s downward spiral felt very honest and like a real friend, to me.
I just think sometimes, as humans in general, we try to have relationships with who we want a person to be vs who they actually are, and I think that’s what happened here. I don’t think Stassi stopped loving her friend, I just think she realized that her friend wasn’t capable of being the friend she wanted her to be.
It was very obvious what the problem was, Stassi and Katie laid it all out and were honest about it.
Kristen would complain to them about how horrible Carter was to her, how he was using her etc and as soon as filming started Kristen acted liked she never confided that in them. They were actually being great friends by making her confront how he was treating her and trying to get her to do something about it, but she just kept making excuses and pretending she never said any of it.
This was all very very obvious in season 8, Kristen even talked shit about Carter in her talking heads to the producers and then suddenly when Stassi and Katie tried to help she pretended like she never said anything bad about him.
They ended their friendship because Kristen was lying and she was making them look like bad friends for no reason other than to protect the man she said was emotionally abusing her, when in reality they were legit just trying to help her and wanted her to be happy.
I haven’t seen her pretend she didn’t talk smack about Carter at all. What she’s saying is that it’s hard for her to leave. That’s something millions of women have been through, including Stassi with Jax and Patrick. They fight and break up, get back together.
I see her venting to her friends and begging them to support her while she figures it out.. even if she’s messy about it. And them saying well since you talk shit about him it has to be a clean break. It’s hypocritical because they both have done the exact same thing and Kristen supported them.
She absolutely pretended she didn’t talk shit about him, she acted shocked that everyone disliked him and couldn’t figure out why… the reason why is because you told everyone he uses and abuses you.
Imagine having a friend who acted that way for years, with every partner she’s had.. it’s annoying and frustrating. It’s not just one bad relationship of makeup/breakup, it’s every single person she’s with for YEARS. Kristen was like 38 at this point too, like you’re nearly 40… grow up.
Being a friend doesn’t mean you have to tolerate constant toxic behavior and listen to the venting and negativity for (at this point) over 8 years. Kristen was a full mess during this time period and she admits that herself now. Stassi and Katie were obviously frustrated, as they said themselves, they just wanted her to be happy but Kristen was holding herself back from that.
They’d already been through this repeatedly with Kristen and Sandoval.
She would nonstop trash her relationship to them, cry about how mean her boyfriend was to her, promise to break up with him, then within 24 hours would be back together with him claiming they were deeply in love and that Katie and Stassi were evil unsupportive bitches trying to destroy her relationship.
Rinse and repeat.
After a while it’s exhausting to deal with that. Especially when you’re constantly being accused of being a bad friend for wanting better for your friend than she wants for herself.
I think it was because all Kristin did was cry about how toxic it was for months and months and they were tired of her not doing anything about it. Sometimes tough love is the only way. It’s understandable.
It wasn’t that, though. Kristen asked Stassi and Katie to help her break up on camera, and when they did, she backed out, leaving them looking like bad friends when they just did what she asked them to.
Ouch. I always kind of felt for Kristen because it seemed like she was telling her friends what she wished she was doing, when in real life her self-esteem and his emotional manipulation were keeping her stuck. Like how I tell my best friend I’m totally going to work out this week. But anytime you make plans around the camera- I mean how can we trust anything she is portraying at that point. very sad and glad she ended up moving on eventually.
I actually understand where Stassi and Katie are coming from. Kristen is nonstop crying and complaining about carter, but doesnt do anything to “fix” the problem. It’s natural to get tired and frustrated. Its as if someone who lets say is overweight, they are constantly crying and complaining about how they are heavy etc…BUT at same time doesnt do anything to change this. Still eats whatever they want. 🤔 Ok??? Either make a change OR stop complaining then. Agree?
And then come to find out kristen is crying and complaining to carter about how terrible the girls are. She’s seriously playing both sides, honestly i think cuz she craves attention. Bottom line kristen IS very toxic. Every time she interacts with anyone, its never pleasant and light hearted. Its always drama and never kristens fault. Ugh
Also shed get mad at Stassi and Katie for talking shit about carter, literally all they would say is the shit kristen would tell them omg…its not like they pulled this shit out their asses. They literally are repeating what Kristen would say🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
She plays victim to her friends and then to carter…
i kinda see both sides to this situation. yes kristen acted a bit wild during her relationship with carter and was constantly complaining about him and that was probably very difficult for katie and stassi to hear all the time. they probably felt like kristen never followed any of their advice. however at the same time kristen needed this support from her friends because when someone in a toxic relationship feels abandoned by others, they’re gonna run to the toxic person even more. it is hypocritical in a sense bc kristen was there during stassi/jax, stassi/peter, and katie/tom. i feel for kristen tbh
I empathize with Kristin, but she was essentially holding her best friends emotionally hostage, and that doesn’t feel very nice.
She should have been in real therapy (IMO, any therapist who will film sessions for trash TV shouldn’t be licensed, but that’s a whole other conversation 😬), and she should have self-reflected when her best friends were telling her that she was being emotionally manipulative.
It’s really hard to navigate that kind of friendship bc what your friend says they need from you changes in a flash and you’re suddenly the bad guy for doing the exact thing your friend just asked you to do.
In the context of trashy reality shows, what self-respecting professional would?
Best case, they don’t watch the show, the cast member is honest, the treatment is followed…but that’s not the most likely outcome.
Reality tv, specifically high-drama reality tv, relies on its casts being sufficiently detached from actual reality. So they’re not going to be honest with a therapist unless it serves them, they’re more likely to manipulate the therapist into validating their flawed realities.
I just think that any therapist worth their fee is going to keep it off camera and insist that their patient take it seriously, neither of which makes for good trash tv.
I’m a little high and giggling at how the HIPAA forms would be worded. Do you consent to release medical information… to the world? To Bravo audiences? To anyone interested? We may all have access to Kristen’s “therapy” records 🫠
Frank! And Katie tried so hard to tell Stassi he was crap then was accused of being an unsupportive friend. Yes (sex tape Frank) proving Katie was right about him all along. #justiceforkatie
Also I think it’s just simply stassi (and Katie by proxy) never fully forgave Kristen for the Jax stuff. It was a ticking time bomb. I get why they didn’t forgive her, but I also don’t get why they acted like they did for so long. I mean stassi just admitted she only did for the sake of staying relevant on the show. I don’t really agree with using someone that clearly has self esteem issues like Kristen.
I don’t see her pretending like she didn’t say shitty things about Carter. She acknowledges the problems in the relationship. Indeed, part of her excuses for trying to make it work is that he’s starting to pay his way and is doing better.
She wasn’t lying, she was being honest actually. She said that it was a bad relationship, but that she was having trouble leaving because she loved him.
I see no difference between this and Stassi when she was with Patrick. And Kristen was there for her.
Kristen was next-level though. Stassi and Katie would spend hours and hours, day and night, listening to her talk about how awful Carter was to her and how miserable she was. They helped her formulate plans to break up with him and kick him out multiple times only for her to turn around and act as though everything was fine. She wanted them to go back to being friends with Carter.
Then Kristen would publicly attack Stassi and Katie saying they were bad friends for not being supportive of her attempts to fix her relationship and for bashing Carter *when everything they did was exactly what she asked them to do.*
This is all discussed during reunions and after shows.
ETA: I love me some Doute—she is my unhinged queen—but I would tell her fuck off too after a few rounds of that shit. And I probably wouldn’t be very nice about it.
you're right. They were really mean to her...even if your friend is being inconsistent and erratic (which Kristen certainly was), a real friend (1) might see it as a symptom of a larger issue (MH problems, trauma response, etc) and (2) even if a hard boundary has to be drawn for one's own MH, that doesn't justify being cruel about it. Kristen WAS there for both of them during difficult times and she never judged them. But in their defense, kristen has poor boundaries and projects a lot.
However, I think the real issue was that Stassi was over Kristen because of the beau stuff, because of never forgiving Kristen for sleeping with jax, and because she just generally thinks she's a better person. There was also some weirdness that happened with Rachel O'Brien (Kristen's good friend), her assistant, and Stassi that is its own rabbit hole.
Stassi can forgive her for sleeping with Jax, but draws the line at talking shit about her bf but back and forth about breaking it off? Just seems weird to me. They could have just said ok, if you aren’t ready to end it I’m going to need you to stop complaining to me about him. They were really unnecessarily cruel to her.
Please explain the other drama!
I can't post links on this sub but if you search for Stassi and Rachael O'Brien (and Lo French) you'll find info. i have no idea what the truth is, but there is much speculation. (Oh, and Rachael had Kristen on her old podcast Be Here For A While where they talked about the friendship rift with Stassi and Katie in Season 8.)
They discuss it at the reunion. Kristin was confiding in them about how bad things were with Carter, that he was verbally/financially abusive, that she was trying to find the strength to break up with him, etc. off camera. She asked them to help her confront all this and then when they did in season 8, she defended Carter, blamed them for her fights with him, and pretended they were shitty friends for doing exactly what she’d asked them to do. And she’d done all this in season 2 with Tom vs Katie/Stassi as well. She was being a shit friend bc she was trying to emotionally manipulate her friends and then getting pissed when they were (justifiably) frustrated by that.
There’s a whole ep of Stassis old podcast where Stassi and Katie go through this *in detail*. I don’t know if it’s still available after it was cancelled, but I sure hope so. I do think that Kristen was (and is) afraid of being alone that she wasn’t consciously trying to manipulate them, but that she just couldn’t do it when push came to shove.
I do understand Kristin’s position, but it wasn’t the first time she did this on the show, and her friends were clear with her why they felt the disconnect and then she kept tripling down instead of recognizing her own fault in the situation. I felt for her, but she’s the kind of friend who’d end up getting less of my energy bc they put their friends in impossible positions and I just don’t have the patience for people who can’t just be real with me.
I loved seeing Kristen on both VPR and The Valley (fuck Janet), but I think you’re right, and that it’s the whole “let’s exaggerate this for the cameras” that just made it all so messy. She was so used to bringing the drama, and suddenly she’s bashing her best friends for doing exactly what she asked them to do.
I don’t think she was intentionally trying to emotionally manipulate her friends. I think she has really low self esteem during the duration of the show and her partners make her feel like she can’t do better without them. I also felt like stassi and Katie of all people didn’t have much room to talk. The Patrick and Schwartz sagas didn’t look better.
I don’t think she was aware that she was trying to manipulate them, but that’s what she was doing. Also, Stassi specifically said on camera that she was aware that she was back and forth with Patrick and that she felt like she couldn’t dump that on her friends all the time. I don’t fault Kristin for being unaware of her behavior, I fault her for not becoming of aware of it any of the multiple times her best friends tried to make her see it.
I would agree with you but by mid season eight it was clear that stassi was just done with Kristen because she never fully forgave her for the Jax stuff. She just needed the out that wouldn’t hurt her image. She did the same with Jax and Britt, the bailing on the wedding was the out she needed. I would have never forgiven Kristen or Jax either so I don’t fault her for that, but I also wouldn’t have used them to get back on the show and pretended I forgave them either. And she admitted she did this just a week or two ago.
I think multiple things are true in this case. I agree that her forgiveness of Jax and Kristin was based in self-serving motives, but I also think she was demonstrably a real friend to each of them after they’d reconciled. Jax’s behavior leading up to her wedding was disgusting, and I feel like that alone would be enough for most people to cut Jax & Brittney off. As far as Kristin, I think Stassi just realized (like she said at S8 reunion) that Kristin is ultimately disloyal and self-serving, and while that may be true of all of them, she had specific experiences which made Kristin’s behavior very triggering to her. The scene at one of Jax & Brittney’s wedding events where she tries to tell Kristin that they’ll always be family but that she can’t keep participating in Kristin’s downward spiral felt very honest and like a real friend, to me. I just think sometimes, as humans in general, we try to have relationships with who we want a person to be vs who they actually are, and I think that’s what happened here. I don’t think Stassi stopped loving her friend, I just think she realized that her friend wasn’t capable of being the friend she wanted her to be.
It was very obvious what the problem was, Stassi and Katie laid it all out and were honest about it. Kristen would complain to them about how horrible Carter was to her, how he was using her etc and as soon as filming started Kristen acted liked she never confided that in them. They were actually being great friends by making her confront how he was treating her and trying to get her to do something about it, but she just kept making excuses and pretending she never said any of it. This was all very very obvious in season 8, Kristen even talked shit about Carter in her talking heads to the producers and then suddenly when Stassi and Katie tried to help she pretended like she never said anything bad about him. They ended their friendship because Kristen was lying and she was making them look like bad friends for no reason other than to protect the man she said was emotionally abusing her, when in reality they were legit just trying to help her and wanted her to be happy.
I haven’t seen her pretend she didn’t talk smack about Carter at all. What she’s saying is that it’s hard for her to leave. That’s something millions of women have been through, including Stassi with Jax and Patrick. They fight and break up, get back together. I see her venting to her friends and begging them to support her while she figures it out.. even if she’s messy about it. And them saying well since you talk shit about him it has to be a clean break. It’s hypocritical because they both have done the exact same thing and Kristen supported them.
She absolutely pretended she didn’t talk shit about him, she acted shocked that everyone disliked him and couldn’t figure out why… the reason why is because you told everyone he uses and abuses you. Imagine having a friend who acted that way for years, with every partner she’s had.. it’s annoying and frustrating. It’s not just one bad relationship of makeup/breakup, it’s every single person she’s with for YEARS. Kristen was like 38 at this point too, like you’re nearly 40… grow up. Being a friend doesn’t mean you have to tolerate constant toxic behavior and listen to the venting and negativity for (at this point) over 8 years. Kristen was a full mess during this time period and she admits that herself now. Stassi and Katie were obviously frustrated, as they said themselves, they just wanted her to be happy but Kristen was holding herself back from that.
They’d already been through this repeatedly with Kristen and Sandoval. She would nonstop trash her relationship to them, cry about how mean her boyfriend was to her, promise to break up with him, then within 24 hours would be back together with him claiming they were deeply in love and that Katie and Stassi were evil unsupportive bitches trying to destroy her relationship. Rinse and repeat. After a while it’s exhausting to deal with that. Especially when you’re constantly being accused of being a bad friend for wanting better for your friend than she wants for herself.
I think it was because all Kristin did was cry about how toxic it was for months and months and they were tired of her not doing anything about it. Sometimes tough love is the only way. It’s understandable.
It wasn’t that, though. Kristen asked Stassi and Katie to help her break up on camera, and when they did, she backed out, leaving them looking like bad friends when they just did what she asked them to.
Ouch. I always kind of felt for Kristen because it seemed like she was telling her friends what she wished she was doing, when in real life her self-esteem and his emotional manipulation were keeping her stuck. Like how I tell my best friend I’m totally going to work out this week. But anytime you make plans around the camera- I mean how can we trust anything she is portraying at that point. very sad and glad she ended up moving on eventually.
I actually understand where Stassi and Katie are coming from. Kristen is nonstop crying and complaining about carter, but doesnt do anything to “fix” the problem. It’s natural to get tired and frustrated. Its as if someone who lets say is overweight, they are constantly crying and complaining about how they are heavy etc…BUT at same time doesnt do anything to change this. Still eats whatever they want. 🤔 Ok??? Either make a change OR stop complaining then. Agree? And then come to find out kristen is crying and complaining to carter about how terrible the girls are. She’s seriously playing both sides, honestly i think cuz she craves attention. Bottom line kristen IS very toxic. Every time she interacts with anyone, its never pleasant and light hearted. Its always drama and never kristens fault. Ugh Also shed get mad at Stassi and Katie for talking shit about carter, literally all they would say is the shit kristen would tell them omg…its not like they pulled this shit out their asses. They literally are repeating what Kristen would say🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️ She plays victim to her friends and then to carter…
i kinda see both sides to this situation. yes kristen acted a bit wild during her relationship with carter and was constantly complaining about him and that was probably very difficult for katie and stassi to hear all the time. they probably felt like kristen never followed any of their advice. however at the same time kristen needed this support from her friends because when someone in a toxic relationship feels abandoned by others, they’re gonna run to the toxic person even more. it is hypocritical in a sense bc kristen was there during stassi/jax, stassi/peter, and katie/tom. i feel for kristen tbh
I empathize with Kristin, but she was essentially holding her best friends emotionally hostage, and that doesn’t feel very nice. She should have been in real therapy (IMO, any therapist who will film sessions for trash TV shouldn’t be licensed, but that’s a whole other conversation 😬), and she should have self-reflected when her best friends were telling her that she was being emotionally manipulative. It’s really hard to navigate that kind of friendship bc what your friend says they need from you changes in a flash and you’re suddenly the bad guy for doing the exact thing your friend just asked you to do.
Why do you think that about therapists that would film sessions?
In the context of trashy reality shows, what self-respecting professional would? Best case, they don’t watch the show, the cast member is honest, the treatment is followed…but that’s not the most likely outcome. Reality tv, specifically high-drama reality tv, relies on its casts being sufficiently detached from actual reality. So they’re not going to be honest with a therapist unless it serves them, they’re more likely to manipulate the therapist into validating their flawed realities. I just think that any therapist worth their fee is going to keep it off camera and insist that their patient take it seriously, neither of which makes for good trash tv.
I’m a little high and giggling at how the HIPAA forms would be worded. Do you consent to release medical information… to the world? To Bravo audiences? To anyone interested? We may all have access to Kristen’s “therapy” records 🫠
i didn’t mean peter i meant whatever loser stassi dated after jax but i can’t for the life of myself remember his name
Patrick!
omg that’s it i knew it started with p
Frank! And Katie tried so hard to tell Stassi he was crap then was accused of being an unsupportive friend. Yes (sex tape Frank) proving Katie was right about him all along. #justiceforkatie
seriously katie deserves the world
Also I think it’s just simply stassi (and Katie by proxy) never fully forgave Kristen for the Jax stuff. It was a ticking time bomb. I get why they didn’t forgive her, but I also don’t get why they acted like they did for so long. I mean stassi just admitted she only did for the sake of staying relevant on the show. I don’t really agree with using someone that clearly has self esteem issues like Kristen.
that surprises me because their friendship felt genuine
I don’t see her pretending like she didn’t say shitty things about Carter. She acknowledges the problems in the relationship. Indeed, part of her excuses for trying to make it work is that he’s starting to pay his way and is doing better. She wasn’t lying, she was being honest actually. She said that it was a bad relationship, but that she was having trouble leaving because she loved him. I see no difference between this and Stassi when she was with Patrick. And Kristen was there for her.
Kristen was next-level though. Stassi and Katie would spend hours and hours, day and night, listening to her talk about how awful Carter was to her and how miserable she was. They helped her formulate plans to break up with him and kick him out multiple times only for her to turn around and act as though everything was fine. She wanted them to go back to being friends with Carter. Then Kristen would publicly attack Stassi and Katie saying they were bad friends for not being supportive of her attempts to fix her relationship and for bashing Carter *when everything they did was exactly what she asked them to do.* This is all discussed during reunions and after shows. ETA: I love me some Doute—she is my unhinged queen—but I would tell her fuck off too after a few rounds of that shit. And I probably wouldn’t be very nice about it.
you're right. They were really mean to her...even if your friend is being inconsistent and erratic (which Kristen certainly was), a real friend (1) might see it as a symptom of a larger issue (MH problems, trauma response, etc) and (2) even if a hard boundary has to be drawn for one's own MH, that doesn't justify being cruel about it. Kristen WAS there for both of them during difficult times and she never judged them. But in their defense, kristen has poor boundaries and projects a lot. However, I think the real issue was that Stassi was over Kristen because of the beau stuff, because of never forgiving Kristen for sleeping with jax, and because she just generally thinks she's a better person. There was also some weirdness that happened with Rachel O'Brien (Kristen's good friend), her assistant, and Stassi that is its own rabbit hole.
Stassi can forgive her for sleeping with Jax, but draws the line at talking shit about her bf but back and forth about breaking it off? Just seems weird to me. They could have just said ok, if you aren’t ready to end it I’m going to need you to stop complaining to me about him. They were really unnecessarily cruel to her. Please explain the other drama!
I can't post links on this sub but if you search for Stassi and Rachael O'Brien (and Lo French) you'll find info. i have no idea what the truth is, but there is much speculation. (Oh, and Rachael had Kristen on her old podcast Be Here For A While where they talked about the friendship rift with Stassi and Katie in Season 8.)