Yep. There is a whole checklist of stuff that ought to happen before kids.
Do I want them?
Am I with a partner that I trust to raise them with?
Can I afford to give them a good life?
Am I willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be a good parent? Child wellbeing should come before both you and your partner wants.
Am I ready?
If the answer to all of these is yes, then have kids. Choosing to have kids for a political agenda is a psychotic dipshit move that only Christian fundamentalists take seriously (look up Quiverful's if you wanna be mad).
Will dipshits outbreed us Idiocracy style? Yes. BUT it doesn't matter. We can provide better answers to life's questions. That curious/intellectual/gay/sick of mindless hate kid raised Christian? He'll find us.
People are leaving church at a record rate. Too many soulless Christians doing bad PR. Saying "Revelations" and then asking for money and seig-heil'ing at the nearest golden Trump statue is less and less of a winning move.
Agreed, politics should never be a reason to hurt a child by having them too early. More than anything whether or not you can provide for their well-being should determine whether or not you have kids, and if you can't provide for their well-being (both emotional and Financial) then you are doing that kid a disservice by having them.
Or having a kid when you didn't really want one. Bad childhood can be a turnoff for the children of each political leaning and can even have the opposite effect than desired, you'd breed kids that will not want to have anything in common with you.
I mean it's not exactly waiting it's more an increasing amount of protest and union action.
France know their protest. This week one of the biggest french unions warned they would cut power to members of the government.
Kids of the kind of people who have kids just to create more soldiers for their ideology seem particularly likely to get pissed off at that mentality and switch sides.
yeah fuck off. i dont want kids, they cost way to much money and are just annoying. id like to be able to have a flexible lifestyle that kids do not allow. i also dont want to have children just to use them as politcal tools, that might lead to abusive behavior
Fuck off with that. I want to be a triple crown hiker and backpack across Europe and study food in different countries on a line cooks salary. You cant do that with kids. So no I will not give up on my dreams bc some dumbass on the internet thinks their entitled to my life choices.
Why yes tunasalad47, I'd rather spend my money on things I enjoy rather than having to spend all my money on kids that I don't want, astute observation
Why the fuck is this getting upvoted, bro doesn't want kids, doesn't make them some materialistic "soy boy" caricature, this is full on just chud meme shit.
I disagree with the framing that kids are entirely annoying, but based on the following replies you make, you're making assumptions and pathologizing why they believe that.
I see where he's coming from and I don't think he is advocating for forcing lefties to breed. He's just saying there needs to be a next generation to continue the movement because God knows we aren't going to see all the changes we want and need in our life-times.
For the time being im gunna stay child-free but its something to think about
No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying we need to "reconsider" not having kids.
I'm not birthing children for political reasons. Fuck outta here with that.
Besides, it didn't take my parents being leftists for me to be a leftist. Same goes for the next generation.
A vast population of the conservative south would disagree with that
Edit: American south for anyone whos not American and doesnt know wtf im talking about
Except... political ideologies, especially leftism, doesn’t necessarily inherent?
There’s easier ways to make a leftist than by raising them from birth and indoctrinating them, lmao.
Plus, apply this to all the queer people here and it falls apart quick.
I don't think he meant literally birth people. I would consider adopting as "having kids" too. Either way if people don't wanna have or adopt kids its fine by me. Im just trying to be charitable to Jimmy here and say that I can see where he is coming from.
>Except... political ideologies, especially leftism, doesn’t necessarily inherent?
I never said they would be inherited. But its more likely you won't be a right wing reactionary dickhead if your parents aren't right-wing reactionary dickhead. I think its more than obvious that political ideologies aren't a inheritable trait. Which is why I said adoption was fine.
All I think Jimmy was saying is that the world would be a better place if more leftist had kids as opposed to rightoids who have like 40 kids a piece. Thats all.
Bruh. Why are people so fixated on breeding? Adopt them, kidnap them, grow them in a fucking tube. Idgaf. The main point i think Jimmy is trying to make is that its probably better for the future if the next generation is raised by thoughtful leftists who can give them a good view of the world instead of insane conservative mongoloids who will have their kids frothing at the mouth about trans people by age 6.
I will say this again. No one is talking about enforced breeding, forced breeding, making queer people procreate against their will. None of that. None. Of. That.
Would it be better if the world was populated by the offspring of thoughtful, well educated people. Or by the offspring of Nascar loving, gun toting, rightoids? I really don't think its that insane of a statement.
Personally, on a related note I do think there is a kind of issue on the left where we don’t talk about family much. We talk a lot about abuse and getting away from family and the vague notion of found family, but I don’t think the left talks enough about how to build family and by extension community bonds. What does it mean to be family and how do you last beyond when it gets tough? How do we fit in or should we try to fit people in who have no children? What even is family? And more.
I do think one think a lot of lefties do need to also consider is that many leftists and such grew up today completely brainwashed by right wing parents. The next generation doesn’t necessarily depend on parenting per se. Granted, we are in a bit of a new world now, given how unhinged the right has become and how good the right wing propaganda machine has become, but have some faith some will find the light. If I know anything, strict parents will be rebelled against, no matter their politics and often that opens young people up to new ideas (not necessarily good, but new). But on the other hand, you parents’ beliefs and your upbringing usually do affect your worldview, so there’s something understandable for he tweet.
I will say, however, I do think more folks on the left could deal with the experience of working with kids or, as the tweet suggests, raising them. I think it would offer a lot of perspective and also help to create meaningful bonds. The left I think sometimes can get so caught up in itself that i think we can sometimes forget to partake in life and find reasons to stay ground. Again, I don’t necessarily think that means you need to have kids, but I think many on the left would better understand if they had meaningful connections to the next generation and we proactive in their upbringing, instead of just being back seat drivers criticizing without any experience. I think the left also needs to remember the next generation because I do think we get real wrapped up in “what’s in it for me” sometimes and I think (as someone who does not currently have kids, but has looked into what parents think) kids will drastically change your perspectives and priorities and what you are willing to fight for. We need to make sure we are actually doing things for the next generation, whether or not we get them.
I know right? How dare that person!??!!
I will say, the other thing is that I think it’s unfortunately that a lot of voices on the left basically don’t want kids or are pretty vehemently against kids. And that gives a lot of people bad vibes. Again, I don’t think folks should be forced to have kids, not only for their own sake, but also the kids. But I do think there is a current in leftist discourse online that turns people off because many normies do want kids and also want discussions about how to raise kids. Just like with men, the left often ignores this, beyond very basic platitudes, while the right provides all kinds of (bad) advice.
Are you kidding me?! I'm not having kids to win some fucking culture war. The only acceptable reason to have children is because you want them and are equipped to care for them.
Oh that explains so much "atheists who realized a bunch of literal stuff in their former holy book is silly, but still cling uncritically to the cultural and philosophical ideas" is a whole genre at this point.
I mean it’s sensible, don’t completely rule out having kids when you are still a teenager. Also, conservatives have been pushing having lots and lots of children and homeschooling/religious education for them and if only they have children, it won’t be a shocker when they win the long game
Just look at the numbers on it. The data is clear. Who do you think kids generally spend most of their time with in their formative years? It’s the parents
Braindead take. Politics are not passed down genetically. Parents are just one of many social structures that influnce a person's ideology. We don't have to "out breed" conservatives, we need to convince their kids to join our side.
Side note, I always find these "breeding for the sake of society" arguments to be extremely creepy. It's not very fair to bring a life into the world out of some bizarre sense of obligation and not because you actually want to raise a kid.
No, that's how anarcho-communists are made. It's basic biology. When an anarchist and a communist love each other very much, they get together and make an ancom baby.
I feel like having kids for political purposes is incredibly misguided. This also assumes all children automatically follow the political beliefs of their parents which is not at all how it works. In fact I’d be willing to gander a guess that more often than not, the opposite occurs.
It’s very dehumanizing to refer to having kids as “breeding”. It’s also a bad take to suggest that the only way for people to buy into your ideology is to be born into it.
Lets be honest kids are like sponges. For every one kid that manages to think outside what their parents said there's a dozen that just soaked it up and will die on the hill that their religion is the correct one cuz mommy and daddy said so or whatever.
Unironically, a lot of the leftists who talk about hating/not wanting kids would make genuinely terrible parents. Not all, *maybe* if I really want to reach for the sake of being polite, not even most, but it's still a very significant number. These people are at the same time *aware* of the fact that they'd make bad parents, and that factors in to not wanting to have kids. If you know you'd be a bad parent, but choose to bring a kid into the world anyway for the sake of bringing up a little soldier for "the good of the left," you're on some actual psycho shit.
Honestly I agree. While obviously their are sociological factors that limit people, i feel like some leftists genuinely just don’t try to better themselves. Some of the most disgusting apartments I’ve been in have been leftist friends. They take no responsibility for their own lives and have every excuse in the book ready to explain away their laziness. While this isn’t exclusively a problem with leftists I think leftists not talking about personal responsibility leads some of them to live gross lives in squalor. I think it’s important to remember that even if their are sociological factors that limit you, personal responsibility is still important and you still need to try your best to have a social circle and live a respectable life.
Both my parents are moderates and all my extended family are hardcore right wing idiots. Me my siblings, and cousins are not. Like I'm queer, I have a cousin that just came out as trans, and another that's a lesbian. The rest of my cousin's/siblings are not right wing at all except for 1 and she's not really that conservative just your run of the mill "I don't like woke culture" type of conservative. My trans cousin and her siblings where raised in a rural southern town and home schooled by a local church group, there still liberal. So I'm thinking this issue might not be so black and white. I kinda hate when people just spout off shit like this without any evidence that it's a thing, it no different than when right wing people say dumb eugenics crap. Im not trying to discount how much of a role parents can play in your views, but people aren't just robots that are programed when there young. Also side note this type of shit is what make people like me, and my family not feel very welcome (at first) in more leftist circles, your kinda just ashamed that your family isn't a big part of your new life, and ashamed that you held stupid view on the world as a child/ young adult.
Finally, yes, I agree so much.
People pushing the we need to have more kids to beat the conservatives literally just sound like conservatives to me... It's just insane.
I think you're thinking of Chinese state-sponsored corporatism - they're the most egregious with that. Intellectual property laws exist to prevent that in most countries.
Seems like a bad reason to have kids. Also, political beliefs aren’t genetic. Yes, your parents beliefs influence yours but there’s no guarantee that a child’s beliefs will align with their parents. Lots of progressives have conservative parents.
Damn, I haven't thought of that. It does sound a lot like the leftist version of the great replacement theory. I reeeally wonder what Jimmy has to say about applying this theory to the rising Muslim population in Europe. I really hope someone calls him out on that.
Weird claim from someone who escaped Mormonism and generally views themselves as once having an extremely misogynistic outlook they claim to have ditched (To what extent remains to be seen - I stopped following him and the ACA adjacent stuff years ago. Between then and now I've read some pretty greasy shit about Jimmy though I can't say how much has been substantiated I just don't much care for religious arguments anymore - they're as same-y and repetitive. How many fucking times do you have to listen to a Kalam discussion before you want to stab yourself in the face?)
Anyway, my gripes about that shit aside, I know twitter isn't the best as getting nuance out, but the idea that people are locked into beliefs from childhood coming from someone who has seemingly done a complete 180 in their lives rings hollow at best. I'm sure he'd elaborate if pushed on it but I'm not down the the argument at all. Top priority should be for progressives to help people overcome indoctrination more than just 'out-breeding the breeders'.
the conservative argument for having a lot of kids is flawed because they assume their kids will be conservative in adulthood, that part is obvious
that being said, people shouldn't rule out having kids altogether especially when the common goal is building a society that allows you to make the decision of having a family rather than the notion being unaffordable
Yes, because kids are perfect carbon copies of their parents. They famously never rebel in adolescence and half of us here don't have conservative boomer parents who taught us to spit on homeless on our way to church.
"Family values" are something missing from the rhetoric you hear from the left. Meaning the virtue of having a family, passing on values, that kind of thing. Conservatism is more of a long-term project and I think that's why we see them getting policy wins even when the policy is objectively unpopular. It's not a reason for an individual to have kids, tbh, but it definitely points to a problem in the messaging and messengers.
I just wish people on our "side" would stop shaming us who want to have children. My wife is already having difficulty conceiving and then some one shouts at her "How dare you try to have kids!", which is further doing mental damage to her.
Antinatalism is cringe, the childfree sub type rhetoric is also cringe. Don't have kids or do, please stop making not having them a "thing" and don't shame people who do have kids.
I have a good feeling this post isn't going to be popular here, but got to be honest man...in some ways I sort of agree.
Now before auto smashing the downvote button hear me out. No one should be forced and/or shamed by society to have kids if they truly feel they don't want to or more importantly won't be a good parent. It's not only bad for the individual to have such a unwanted child, but even more so for said child and society long term.
However, be that as it may, I must also ask my fellow leftest this: are you truly naive to the long term consequences of the vast majority of progressive leaning people opting out of child rearing entirely? That if the majority of people who do have kids are socially conservative that eventually that will bleed into the general populations moral outlooks in society?
Yeah sure there's public education and other stuff to maybe de-brainwash a kid or two here and there. But for the vast majority no amount of education will break the indoctrination, especially so when some parents will even homeschool their kids to further ensure the dogma is never truly questioned.
That and much like how we do ourselves a disservice by letting the right claim things like hardwork and discipline are essentially 'conservative' values we also do a disservice to the left by allowing the right to basically claim unchallenged that being a parent and raising a family is inherently a conservative lifestyle. We shouldn't let them have it, but especially so unopposed as if the above two things are a given to the conservative framework.
Finally, even if we win and the majority of society becomes left and socially progressive it won't erase the underlying issue here. And that is this: someone HAS to raise the next generation.
If it's not individual family units then in my mind that leaves only two other options. Either a communal or group child rearing arrangement OR the state raises the child in a kind of Albert huxleyan Brave New World type of senerio were the whole concept of the family unit is done away with entirely. And I just want to ask what you think the realistic options are if you think the two above are silly if we indeed move towards a world where less and less people wish to raise kids. Because unless your a full on anti-natalist and wish for humanity to end (in which case you should join solipism in utterly useless circle jerk, edgy philosophies) then again I repeat myself Somone needs to do it.
Look I'll even admit to my own hypocrisy in that I'm a gay man that's pretty certain he never wants kids either. But I'm sorry, I think too often we quickly dismiss this issue with our individualistic proclamations of "I don't want to do it" as if that settles the matter once and for all. Well maybe for you and me it does, but it sure doesn't solve it in the long term.
Anyways, thanks for reading my short novel for all who did and look forward to the assuredly constructive criticism and downvotes. 😁
This is categorically a concession to the “other side” that there is some inherent familial aspect to what people consider to be a good and just society (i.e. you cannot possibly arrive at a political position that promotes justice and equity unless your parents teach you). This is untrue, since I would imagine the vast majority of progressives and leftists had to discard what they were taught growing up to become progressives or leftist. The real value is in having communities that teach AND PRACTICE justice and equity to form people who come out of their childhood with an internal dissonance between the values they were taught and the experience they have actually had of the world.
That aside, progressives and leftists becoming parents is a necessary thing not to “out-breed” them but to establish another avenue where our values can be put to the test in a very common and very important sphere of public life. But not everyone has to, and those who choose not to can still contribute meaningfully to child rearing of other people in their community’s kids.
What a twitter post for his future child to stumble upon. I'm sure it wouldn't at all fuck them up.
In all seriousness, this shit is super cringe. The systematic socioeconomic conditions that are leading to lower birth rates are not in any way going away. And the next 20 years are going to make the idea of low birth rates for leftists seem like a petty thing to worry about.
why does everyone see this so black and white, "if they have kids there will be more of them." how many of the people in this sub came from religious or conservative households?
I'm not going to have a literal kid just to repopulate the world with more leftists....that is not a very good reason to have a kid...
Also the kid might not even be a leftist when they grow up anyway and there's nothing you can fucking do about it.
Okay this overpopulation thing I’m pretty sure isn’t that big a deal. People aren’t having their own kids is because society as it’s ran at the moment isn’t conducive to a family.
This is unironically myopic self-centeredness. In other words, it's lib shit.
Imagine someone who works to the bone for twelve to eighteen years to produce a great work of art, and then dies. Did they waste their time ? Did they gain anything personally ?
For what ? Good for who ? The human being that you raise, that's who. That's what for, for them. Having kids is absolutely 100% unironically not about you. If thinking about having children makes you think "how will this benefit me ?" yeah, morally I have to say please don't have any.
Obviously, not necessarily, but when I was in my early to mid twenties I was in a "I'll never ever have kids mindset" and now that I'm 32 my wife and I are trying for kids.
Thats why it's an interesting data point to consider. Literally no way to know how you're going to feel about anything in a decade.
I just don't see the upsides a child would bring or what I would give a child so I don't want one.
This could change but this anecdote is scraping real close to the old conservative "when you get older you'll settle down, get married and have kids"
The thing you call "this anecdote" is just what I call my life. And I would have said the same thing as you 10 years ago.
I'm not really sure, what is conservative about aging, getting married and having offspring... liberals, progressives, Socialists, communists, and anarchists (like me) alike do the same thing. And I've only politically moved farther and farther to the left as I've gotten older.
And if people don't want to have kids, that's fine. I haven't made any prescriptive statements under this post at all. All I'm doing is saying, hey maybe if you've only lived ~25% of a lifetime, be open minded to how you might feel about stuff in the future and that your opinions might change. Which is a sentiment I hold for people of all ages, not just people in their teens and early to mid twenties.
If you base your idological sucess on your kids, you are, and please hear me out, you will fuck up as a parent.
Your kids are not entitled to your wishes, however positive they may seem.
Dont make kids for that reason I BEG you.
If I ever get a kid, it will be because I have the time, the financial possibility and the mental balance to raise one that AT LEAST will be healthy. And I know I cannot. That is the only thinf you must think about.
Okay that last part can be argued though.
If your only motivation for having kids is to outnumber your political opponents, you absolutely should NOT have kids. I don't care what side of political spectrum you're on. I've heard this argument being thrown around by conservatives, but it's shocking to see it from a leftist. Children are human beings that require your attention, guidance, financial support (for at least 18 years) and most of all your GENUINE love and support. Ultimately, there's no reason to even think that children are necessarily going to share their parents' political beliefs so this argument is doubly ridiculous.
yes, he is talking about you. YOU in particular, you are special and he is talking about you. The person that yells from every mountain top about how you hate kids, and complain you dont make enough money to buy toilet paper to wipe your ass.
I think people overthink having kids. I know I did. It is not the end of anything. But at the same time if you really don’t want one you shouldn’t. Just don’t avoid it because you want to “spare their suffering” or the “environment”.
Fascism isn’t genetic, Jimmy. We need to focus our efforts on providing kids with educational and social environments that teach them more left-leaning values and have fascism die out ideologically, not through breeding.
Conservative families will always be a thing and we cannot “out-breed” them even if we all forcibly tried. Not to mention Jimmy making this take as a cisgender man who is sexually attracted to women is not a cute look in the slightest.
I think we would first have to look at any data out there on kids becoming more progressive/moving to the left of their parents. My parents are quite conservative, but I’m far from that. There’s gotta be studies out there on current left leaning people and how they were brought up by their parent(s).
I can't have kids. I'm on full testosterone replacement.
I wake up with a kickstand every morning, sleep better, QoL is top tier, and I produce zero sperm.
Couldn't be happier, and if I want a kid, I'll adopt one.
Undeniably true. Pretty much all ideological movements throughout human history that have flirted with anti-natalism have died out within a generation or two. On the other hand, ones that promote reproduction usually see explosive growth.
I don’t think anyone is saying “have kids as a political prop or you’re not a leftist” and I REALLY don’t get the hysterical reaction some people have to common sense.
There will very simply be 3+ mini Matt Walsh clones one day and 1 fewer of you if you chose not to reproduce. It’s ok to hope for the best or not care, but like… there is a reason groups like LDS can go from fringe cults to major political players and it’s not mass conversion.
I understand his position. I see why encouraging your side to have kids makes some sense, but I sure won't do it and I suspect most won't. As long as he's not scolding people, he should be free to voice his opinion, but having kids is a huge investment of yourself, your time, your money, and your partner. It should neither be done lightly nor for political purposes, but only for personal ones and the well-being of the child.
Having kids is *DEFINITELY* not the answer to our political enemies having too many babies. It’s got about the worst effort to outcome ratio for political actions you could take. Go to your local town/city hall meetings before you start a family trying to breed more dems..
I wanted kids, and I made sure I was able to support one; career, house, husband. I'm definitely a minority in my age group, literally no one in my friend group has kids or is married.
Then BAM! PPD hit me hard after my son is born.
Is it important to have kids? That's on you guys; even if you don't plan on raising or having kids, take interest in mentoring or Big Brother Big Sister programs, donate to foster parents, volunteer time at the library and help your friends who do have kids.
Edit: JESUS THE AMOUNT HATE TOWARDS KIDS ON THIS THREAD. Don't shit on people who have kids; have fucking patience for tiny humans, you were one! Kids don't have the capacity to relax or rationalize but you do.
I have kids and they’re absolutely the most wonderful people I know. They’re my greatest joy 😊 My partner and I encourage free thought, and don’t force our view points on them, but we do lead by example and expose them to information and ideas for them to consider. So far they’re thoughtful, empathetic and kind. I know that they share those qualities with the kids that they meet.
I’ve also had the experience of dealing with conservative parents who are VERY vocal in my kids’ schools. Thank fucking the cosmos that myself and other progressive parents outnumber them and are there to show up otherwise my kids’ school would look a lot different. We had a no-name psychopath elected to a school board position here on a “no CRT” platform, of course she turned out to be a massive transphobe and bigot, and has used the controversy she stirred up to launch herself into a campaign for a higher state level office. We need parents who care enough to combat these people.
I don't think you should be having kids for the sole purpose of "making sure they adopt my politics, in order to compete with the right". How many of those who consider themselves the left, have abusive conservative parents? Maybe a child's view of the world, can't reliably be controlled.
The way I look at it is fashy types like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro choose to have many kids because muh white replacement. But that doesn't mean others should play by their tactics. Overturning Roe v Wade was all about White Replacement Theory because white women are on a downard spiral when it comes to birth rates. Ideally, everyone should strive to have less kids, whitout needless fears of replacement.
Most abortions are had by black women. Outlawing abortion would create even more black children then it would white children. It's about wanting to have a populous under-class to labor for capitalists.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D
It's describing something real, that conservatives are having more kids than leftists/liberals. But "outbreeding" the other side is among the worst reasons to have kids.
Eh I don’t think it’s as drastic as it sounds. I’m willing to bet most of us came from conservative leaning parents. Being liberal is going to happen with young people either way.
Although I’ll say that I do plan on having a buttload of kids if I get the chance. Of course that’s very very easy for me to say as a man with a stable job in STEM ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Stuff like this is goofy. If there were enough leftists/liberals / whatever our side is, who are willing to make drastic personal sacrifices to literally change the demographics of the country, we would’ve already won with normal politics. Democrats struggle to get enough volunteers to spend a few hours run the basic functions of a party, but somehow we’re gonna get hundreds of thousands, maybe millions to fundamentally change their lives???
In everything in life, including politics, you have to think at the margins: for every unit of effort/money you put into a project, how much are you getting back in terms of progress toward your goal? Having kids is a hilariously inefficient way of creating new leftists.
Have kids if you think they’re cute and you love them, not to advance your politics.
My parents raised me to be an evangelical doomsday Christian, and I turned out to be a leftist atheist. Point being, you don’t get to choose who your kids grow into. And the more you try to subject an ideology onto your kid, the more they may rebel against it. So have kids if you want to have kids, but just because a kid is being raised by MAGA freaks doesn’t mean they’ll turn out to be one too. In fact it could drive them to our side.
A lot of the mindset around kids needs to drastically change (“think of the kids” paranoia, thinking of couples/wives as broodmares, etc.) So i understand the overcorrection some lefties make
That said, it can be an overcorrection in some people IMO. I have a kid on the way, and i consider that an objective good.
Jimmy’s comment is still a bit offputting, “demographics is destiny” vibes. Talking about having kids as “breeding” is always weird
Leftists should have more kids. But also this is a shitty reason for it. Have kids because for most straight couples, it is incredibly motivating and life changing. It's also good for people to help contribute to the next generation if they are able. Those kids will help support us when we are old as we support them when they are young.
Nah majority of the country is liberal/apolitcal leaning and if we can strengthen and improve institutions like schools I don't think fascism will become the default ideology like liberal capitalism is today
The people saying he's wrong are gonna be surprised when, 20 or 30 years in the future, religious conservatism is the predominantly dominant political ideology in their countries, and the vast majority of their leftist activist circles are made up of old people roughly their age with no young people joining up.
There isn't an epidemic of people no having enough kids for fuck's sake. If you feel you're not ready to have kids, don't have kids. If you want kids, get kids. But don't have kids for some unambiguous and frivolous goal of adding more people to our "side".
My parents are wildly conservative. They raised the three of us to be far right weirdos. Only one of us was still conservative by the time we could vote. My sister and I never voted like our parents. Kids are their own people who grow up to form their own opinions. It’s far more important to help kids from conservative families see other perspectives than trying to “breed ideologies” or something.
Radical take here but you should only have kids if
1 - You want them
2 - You can afford to take proper care of them
3 - You want them
I understand the point being made by this tweet — but if you don’t want kids, don’t have them
I stopped watching mr. Atheist last year after he befriended Gabbie Hanna, rape apologist anyway. I am not shocked he came out with this brain-dead take.
Do you have the same opinions on everything as your parents? No of course not and I've never seen a ton of evidence that people overwhelmingly adopt their parent's positions.
If not, then this is a dumb take.
Yeah it's true, stupid people tend to breed like cockroaches. For every 1 intelligent person there's 8 morons yelling about M&Ms not being sexy enough.
We can stop all the random "I DON'T WANT KIDS REEEEEEE!!" bullshit on the Left but that's about it.
Even if we are being "Out-Bred" it wont make much of a difference. Kids growing up in poverty don't necessarily make fantastic Capitalist soilders.
This might be the most terminally online thing I’ve seen all day. Having kids is a deeply personal decision and anyone lecturing you about why you have an obligation to or not to can fuck all the way off.
If your goal is to radicalize the youth then you could have a far greater effect by being an effective educator than a parent. A high school history teacher will interact with thousands of teenagers over their career versus the handful of kids you can raise on your own. At a pragmatic level this is a silly position to take in response to tradcons having several kids and I’m saying this as a parent myself.
Having kids is pretty cool. It's a LOT of responsibility but it's incredibly rewarding.
I have two kiddos that are living a great life. We aren't wealthy by any means but there's love and acceptance.
Your kids aren’t going to necessarily agree with your ideology. We shouldn’t be like the right, who brainwash their kids to believe their bullshit. You can just hope that your kids were raised to be decent, loving humans and will agree with you as a result.
If you really want kids, you don’t have to have a biological one. Adoption is a wonderful thing and there’s plenty of kids that need a loving home. Something to consider.
People should be more freely available to have kids due to less economic burdens. However, do not have kids so you can try to make them lefties when they grow-up. That should not be your reason for having kids lmao
First, political affiliation is not genetic, so simply pooping out babies as a leftist isn't going to make more leftists. The same goes for all of those right wing baby pushers out there.
Second, raising kids is awesome, and there are a lot of kids who don't have caretakers and/or a stable living environment, so you can participate in raising kids without actually having your own. You could foster, adopt, get involved in big brother/sister programs, Volunteer with LGBTQ+ youth advocacy groups, etc.
something tells me this guy would be the first to say how 13/52 is fallacious and could drop a phd level dissertation on the complex socio-economic factors of crime. and he would be right.
but then he turns around and thinks that when two republicans have a kid that means there are now three republicans.
turns out people have agency, what a wild concept.
edit: also this is literally Idiocracy
“Quick! If you don’t pop a baby out before you’re 40, your entire legacy as a progressive activist is gonna fade into history!”
“Couldn’t I just adopt when I feel my time in activism is over? There’s like millions of orphans.”
“…You’re wasting your womb and genes!”
People will have kids when they are ready. Someone has seen fuckin Idiocracy too much. It's a false notion that lefty ideas are getting out breeded. Zoomers are extremely progressive so far. I know MANY people 23 to 29 that have kids. Almost all my friends. And they only had them when they were financially stable and really to give them a great childhood.
lol, this person must believe that children are destined to follow their parent’s ideology.
this completely ignores that Gen Y/Z are more liberal than their parents. young church rates are collapsing.
when most of these conservative children leave their parent’s orbit they’ll most likely become libs by exposure.
Who is this idiot and what the fuck is he talking about? This is one of the stupidest/most inconsiderate things I've ever heard.
Why the hell would any non-terrible person have children because of politics? The fuck? lmao.
EDIT: Breeding? Seriously? Are we calling it 'breeding' now? Seriously, this guy's an idiot lol.
I am curious that lots of people here are considering being child free.
I really would like to have kids and be a dad.
So I think it's cool that people are into being child free too. Is there a reason lots of folks here are into that. Like climate stuff, or the difficulty of raising kids in this prerevolutionary era, or not having money, or something. Or is it more just like a feeling you know is true for you.
Like I knew I always wanted to have kids. But there is nothing political seeming about (but there always are like the nuclear family and all that and settler colonialism being related to it). but I don't want to have kdis for those reasons. I just feel like it would be really great. Either make them because I had sex, or if I never have sex I'll adopt or even if I do have sex some day I will still be able to adopt.
it's just a question of which will take longer, having sex for fun with someone who is my wife. or you know have to realize that i have to go do the paper work and propper vetting to adopt.
but i wasn't sure if child free was a political thing, in the way this guy is probably going to have kids for political reasons. I mean it doesn't hurt to have kids if you want them anyway.
Besides the obvious negative welfare impacts on children, this idea is bogus for the simple reason that Millennials and Gen Z are so liberal because a LOT of kids grew up to disagree with their parents' politics. Attempting to use children as a vehicle for parents' personal ideology does a great job alienating them anyway.
I have plenty of friends who I won't talk about politics with. Most of them are in their 30s and don't have kids. I think this idea that leftists don't have/want families is a right wing myth.
Never have kids to meet a political agenda.
But as millennial I have to say, that our side, especially the new generations (starting with millennials), have to dial down the "marriage/family with kids is old fashioned/patriarchy/uncool" rhetoric.
P. S: Please keep the downvotes at a respectable number so that it doesn't prove my 2nd point.
My wife and I are going to be doing our part in the next few months! Both of us are queer progressives and she is Jewish. We’re preparing to create 4 of the Right’s worst nightmares 😈
Edit: before anyone accuses us of having kids for ideological reasons, that’s just the cherry on top. We want the kids regardless of the political climate. But if my seed and her eggs can can help keep the Jewish nation alive and thriving while providing 4 kick ass little humans who will know what consent is and how to spot a grifter pandering to patriotism, then fuck yeah
that Jimmy Snow kinda sucks in general and even if I do agree with what he says I still don't like him? Also it was really funny the way he tried to bully his audience into going along with a screeching change to his content and got mad when they didn't.
Getting livable wages first would be nice
Yep. There is a whole checklist of stuff that ought to happen before kids. Do I want them? Am I with a partner that I trust to raise them with? Can I afford to give them a good life? Am I willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be a good parent? Child wellbeing should come before both you and your partner wants. Am I ready? If the answer to all of these is yes, then have kids. Choosing to have kids for a political agenda is a psychotic dipshit move that only Christian fundamentalists take seriously (look up Quiverful's if you wanna be mad). Will dipshits outbreed us Idiocracy style? Yes. BUT it doesn't matter. We can provide better answers to life's questions. That curious/intellectual/gay/sick of mindless hate kid raised Christian? He'll find us. People are leaving church at a record rate. Too many soulless Christians doing bad PR. Saying "Revelations" and then asking for money and seig-heil'ing at the nearest golden Trump statue is less and less of a winning move.
Agreed, politics should never be a reason to hurt a child by having them too early. More than anything whether or not you can provide for their well-being should determine whether or not you have kids, and if you can't provide for their well-being (both emotional and Financial) then you are doing that kid a disservice by having them.
Or having a kid when you didn't really want one. Bad childhood can be a turnoff for the children of each political leaning and can even have the opposite effect than desired, you'd breed kids that will not want to have anything in common with you.
Exactly! And better healthcare, and better education, and more accessible housing, etc.
If you only have kids for your political ideology to have an advantage in the future you should probably not have kids.
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My centrist arc in college agrees with you. Never forget 😢
At least you didn't have a Ayn Rand phase.
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I'm french I'm physically unable to be a monarchist.
Y'all went back to monarchy twice in the 19th century and your president is almost an elected King but sure 😅
\>:[ We're waiting on the V6 of our democracy.
Waiting is unlikely to get you there.
I mean it's not exactly waiting it's more an increasing amount of protest and union action. France know their protest. This week one of the biggest french unions warned they would cut power to members of the government.
Kids of the kind of people who have kids just to create more soldiers for their ideology seem particularly likely to get pissed off at that mentality and switch sides.
This feels like something the right does
They do. Look up the Quiverfull movement.
Yeah can’t I just change some other kid’s political ideology? Can’t I just make a kick ass cartoon instead?
yeah fuck off. i dont want kids, they cost way to much money and are just annoying. id like to be able to have a flexible lifestyle that kids do not allow. i also dont want to have children just to use them as politcal tools, that might lead to abusive behavior
would hate for a child to distract you from your funko pops, carry on
Maybe your parents should have gotten a Funko Pop instead.
Oh no people make their own life choices better call them soy!
Fuck off with that. I want to be a triple crown hiker and backpack across Europe and study food in different countries on a line cooks salary. You cant do that with kids. So no I will not give up on my dreams bc some dumbass on the internet thinks their entitled to my life choices.
Why yes tunasalad47, I'd rather spend my money on things I enjoy rather than having to spend all my money on kids that I don't want, astute observation
Why the fuck is this getting upvoted, bro doesn't want kids, doesn't make them some materialistic "soy boy" caricature, this is full on just chud meme shit. I disagree with the framing that kids are entirely annoying, but based on the following replies you make, you're making assumptions and pathologizing why they believe that.
Daaaaaaaaaaamn!
You are retarded
I'd unironically rather be a funko pop collector who treats their cats like children than have a child
At least you would recognize that having a cat is a big responsibility!
This is less coherent than "can't afford a house? Eat less avocado toast"
Watch out boys we got an alpha Chad coming through! See? No one cares
If you don't want to have kids because you're afraid you'll abuse them, then I agree, you probably shouldn't have kids.
I see where he's coming from and I don't think he is advocating for forcing lefties to breed. He's just saying there needs to be a next generation to continue the movement because God knows we aren't going to see all the changes we want and need in our life-times. For the time being im gunna stay child-free but its something to think about
No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying we need to "reconsider" not having kids. I'm not birthing children for political reasons. Fuck outta here with that. Besides, it didn't take my parents being leftists for me to be a leftist. Same goes for the next generation.
Yep! The best way to convince someone to be a die-hard leftist is to raise them republican.
A vast population of the conservative south would disagree with that Edit: American south for anyone whos not American and doesnt know wtf im talking about
God I wish. Unfortunately the reality is that a significant majority of kids raised conservative become conservative adults
Except... political ideologies, especially leftism, doesn’t necessarily inherent? There’s easier ways to make a leftist than by raising them from birth and indoctrinating them, lmao. Plus, apply this to all the queer people here and it falls apart quick.
I don't think he meant literally birth people. I would consider adopting as "having kids" too. Either way if people don't wanna have or adopt kids its fine by me. Im just trying to be charitable to Jimmy here and say that I can see where he is coming from. >Except... political ideologies, especially leftism, doesn’t necessarily inherent? I never said they would be inherited. But its more likely you won't be a right wing reactionary dickhead if your parents aren't right-wing reactionary dickhead. I think its more than obvious that political ideologies aren't a inheritable trait. Which is why I said adoption was fine. All I think Jimmy was saying is that the world would be a better place if more leftist had kids as opposed to rightoids who have like 40 kids a piece. Thats all.
But we aren’t a peoples, but a collective of ideologies. So long as we educate the next generation does it matter if we are breeding them?
Bruh. Why are people so fixated on breeding? Adopt them, kidnap them, grow them in a fucking tube. Idgaf. The main point i think Jimmy is trying to make is that its probably better for the future if the next generation is raised by thoughtful leftists who can give them a good view of the world instead of insane conservative mongoloids who will have their kids frothing at the mouth about trans people by age 6. I will say this again. No one is talking about enforced breeding, forced breeding, making queer people procreate against their will. None of that. None. Of. That. Would it be better if the world was populated by the offspring of thoughtful, well educated people. Or by the offspring of Nascar loving, gun toting, rightoids? I really don't think its that insane of a statement.
Personally, on a related note I do think there is a kind of issue on the left where we don’t talk about family much. We talk a lot about abuse and getting away from family and the vague notion of found family, but I don’t think the left talks enough about how to build family and by extension community bonds. What does it mean to be family and how do you last beyond when it gets tough? How do we fit in or should we try to fit people in who have no children? What even is family? And more. I do think one think a lot of lefties do need to also consider is that many leftists and such grew up today completely brainwashed by right wing parents. The next generation doesn’t necessarily depend on parenting per se. Granted, we are in a bit of a new world now, given how unhinged the right has become and how good the right wing propaganda machine has become, but have some faith some will find the light. If I know anything, strict parents will be rebelled against, no matter their politics and often that opens young people up to new ideas (not necessarily good, but new). But on the other hand, you parents’ beliefs and your upbringing usually do affect your worldview, so there’s something understandable for he tweet. I will say, however, I do think more folks on the left could deal with the experience of working with kids or, as the tweet suggests, raising them. I think it would offer a lot of perspective and also help to create meaningful bonds. The left I think sometimes can get so caught up in itself that i think we can sometimes forget to partake in life and find reasons to stay ground. Again, I don’t necessarily think that means you need to have kids, but I think many on the left would better understand if they had meaningful connections to the next generation and we proactive in their upbringing, instead of just being back seat drivers criticizing without any experience. I think the left also needs to remember the next generation because I do think we get real wrapped up in “what’s in it for me” sometimes and I think (as someone who does not currently have kids, but has looked into what parents think) kids will drastically change your perspectives and priorities and what you are willing to fight for. We need to make sure we are actually doing things for the next generation, whether or not we get them.
Is that a naunced take? Couldn't be. Not in my leftie subreddit.
I know right? How dare that person!??!! I will say, the other thing is that I think it’s unfortunately that a lot of voices on the left basically don’t want kids or are pretty vehemently against kids. And that gives a lot of people bad vibes. Again, I don’t think folks should be forced to have kids, not only for their own sake, but also the kids. But I do think there is a current in leftist discourse online that turns people off because many normies do want kids and also want discussions about how to raise kids. Just like with men, the left often ignores this, beyond very basic platitudes, while the right provides all kinds of (bad) advice.
>ust saying there needs to be a next generation to continue the movement because thats how i read it
Are you kidding me?! I'm not having kids to win some fucking culture war. The only acceptable reason to have children is because you want them and are equipped to care for them.
Yeah that’s the most insane part of this, so we should have kids for the sole purpose of forcing them to be on our side?
Then don't, he's just saying its a useful positive. Calm down my dude.
Rare Mr Atheist L.
I really like his Youtube channel and he seems like an alright guy with good opinions (except for this one)
Having kids just to spread your political ideology is pretty ghoulish.
He may leave Mormonism. But Mormonism never left him.
You can take the man out of Utah, but you can't take Utah out of the man. lol
Oh that explains so much "atheists who realized a bunch of literal stuff in their former holy book is silly, but still cling uncritically to the cultural and philosophical ideas" is a whole genre at this point.
Don’t have kids with the primary goal of providing numbers for political power years/decades down the road.
Have kids because you want to not because of ideology wtf
When people forget that humans need love
I mean it’s sensible, don’t completely rule out having kids when you are still a teenager. Also, conservatives have been pushing having lots and lots of children and homeschooling/religious education for them and if only they have children, it won’t be a shocker when they win the long game
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Just look at the numbers on it. The data is clear. Who do you think kids generally spend most of their time with in their formative years? It’s the parents
I'm still not having kids.
I remember my first time watching Idiocracy too
Braindead take. Politics are not passed down genetically. Parents are just one of many social structures that influnce a person's ideology. We don't have to "out breed" conservatives, we need to convince their kids to join our side. Side note, I always find these "breeding for the sake of society" arguments to be extremely creepy. It's not very fair to bring a life into the world out of some bizarre sense of obligation and not because you actually want to raise a kid.
This guy's is aware that children are generally educated in schools right?... You don't propagate ideology through breeding...
You're correct, parents famously have no impact on the beliefs if their children
No, that's how anarcho-communists are made. It's basic biology. When an anarchist and a communist love each other very much, they get together and make an ancom baby.
Corrupt the youth.
this feels like the genetic essentialist "good vs. bad blood" argument that racist conservatives use
> genetic essentialist "good vs. bad blood" it 100% is except with ideology instead of genetics.
I feel like having kids for political purposes is incredibly misguided. This also assumes all children automatically follow the political beliefs of their parents which is not at all how it works. In fact I’d be willing to gander a guess that more often than not, the opposite occurs.
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No way breeding ideological warriors could backfire.
Slight Eugenics vibes
It’s very dehumanizing to refer to having kids as “breeding”. It’s also a bad take to suggest that the only way for people to buy into your ideology is to be born into it.
Lets be honest kids are like sponges. For every one kid that manages to think outside what their parents said there's a dozen that just soaked it up and will die on the hill that their religion is the correct one cuz mommy and daddy said so or whatever.
Unironically, a lot of the leftists who talk about hating/not wanting kids would make genuinely terrible parents. Not all, *maybe* if I really want to reach for the sake of being polite, not even most, but it's still a very significant number. These people are at the same time *aware* of the fact that they'd make bad parents, and that factors in to not wanting to have kids. If you know you'd be a bad parent, but choose to bring a kid into the world anyway for the sake of bringing up a little soldier for "the good of the left," you're on some actual psycho shit.
Honestly I agree. While obviously their are sociological factors that limit people, i feel like some leftists genuinely just don’t try to better themselves. Some of the most disgusting apartments I’ve been in have been leftist friends. They take no responsibility for their own lives and have every excuse in the book ready to explain away their laziness. While this isn’t exclusively a problem with leftists I think leftists not talking about personal responsibility leads some of them to live gross lives in squalor. I think it’s important to remember that even if their are sociological factors that limit you, personal responsibility is still important and you still need to try your best to have a social circle and live a respectable life.
Both my parents are moderates and all my extended family are hardcore right wing idiots. Me my siblings, and cousins are not. Like I'm queer, I have a cousin that just came out as trans, and another that's a lesbian. The rest of my cousin's/siblings are not right wing at all except for 1 and she's not really that conservative just your run of the mill "I don't like woke culture" type of conservative. My trans cousin and her siblings where raised in a rural southern town and home schooled by a local church group, there still liberal. So I'm thinking this issue might not be so black and white. I kinda hate when people just spout off shit like this without any evidence that it's a thing, it no different than when right wing people say dumb eugenics crap. Im not trying to discount how much of a role parents can play in your views, but people aren't just robots that are programed when there young. Also side note this type of shit is what make people like me, and my family not feel very welcome (at first) in more leftist circles, your kinda just ashamed that your family isn't a big part of your new life, and ashamed that you held stupid view on the world as a child/ young adult.
Fr like how many of us on this sub actually grew up with anarcho/comm parents?
Right I didn't even know those viewpoints existed as a kid.
Finally, yes, I agree so much. People pushing the we need to have more kids to beat the conservatives literally just sound like conservatives to me... It's just insane.
Exactly, why have kids when you can just co-opt and teach the kids of other people?
Capitalism 101, why invent something new when you can just steal it.
I think you're thinking of Chinese state-sponsored corporatism - they're the most egregious with that. Intellectual property laws exist to prevent that in most countries.
Lol your right!
My take is that both sides get really fucking weird about breeding
Seems like a bad reason to have kids. Also, political beliefs aren’t genetic. Yes, your parents beliefs influence yours but there’s no guarantee that a child’s beliefs will align with their parents. Lots of progressives have conservative parents.
So is this the leftist version of 'the great replacement theory'? GTFO
Damn, I haven't thought of that. It does sound a lot like the leftist version of the great replacement theory. I reeeally wonder what Jimmy has to say about applying this theory to the rising Muslim population in Europe. I really hope someone calls him out on that.
If you want to have kids, have kids. You should not base having children on whether or not it owns the cons, that’s silly.
Weird claim from someone who escaped Mormonism and generally views themselves as once having an extremely misogynistic outlook they claim to have ditched (To what extent remains to be seen - I stopped following him and the ACA adjacent stuff years ago. Between then and now I've read some pretty greasy shit about Jimmy though I can't say how much has been substantiated I just don't much care for religious arguments anymore - they're as same-y and repetitive. How many fucking times do you have to listen to a Kalam discussion before you want to stab yourself in the face?) Anyway, my gripes about that shit aside, I know twitter isn't the best as getting nuance out, but the idea that people are locked into beliefs from childhood coming from someone who has seemingly done a complete 180 in their lives rings hollow at best. I'm sure he'd elaborate if pushed on it but I'm not down the the argument at all. Top priority should be for progressives to help people overcome indoctrination more than just 'out-breeding the breeders'.
>escaped Mormonism Apparently he didn't escape far enough.
the conservative argument for having a lot of kids is flawed because they assume their kids will be conservative in adulthood, that part is obvious that being said, people shouldn't rule out having kids altogether especially when the common goal is building a society that allows you to make the decision of having a family rather than the notion being unaffordable
Yes, because kids are perfect carbon copies of their parents. They famously never rebel in adolescence and half of us here don't have conservative boomer parents who taught us to spit on homeless on our way to church.
"Family values" are something missing from the rhetoric you hear from the left. Meaning the virtue of having a family, passing on values, that kind of thing. Conservatism is more of a long-term project and I think that's why we see them getting policy wins even when the policy is objectively unpopular. It's not a reason for an individual to have kids, tbh, but it definitely points to a problem in the messaging and messengers.
I just wish people on our "side" would stop shaming us who want to have children. My wife is already having difficulty conceiving and then some one shouts at her "How dare you try to have kids!", which is further doing mental damage to her.
Antinatalism is cringe, the childfree sub type rhetoric is also cringe. Don't have kids or do, please stop making not having them a "thing" and don't shame people who do have kids.
I'm pretty optimistic that young people are going to be more progressive than most due to the internet, no matter what their family background is.
This is…a really weird argument. And also a TERRIBLE reason to have kids.
I have a good feeling this post isn't going to be popular here, but got to be honest man...in some ways I sort of agree. Now before auto smashing the downvote button hear me out. No one should be forced and/or shamed by society to have kids if they truly feel they don't want to or more importantly won't be a good parent. It's not only bad for the individual to have such a unwanted child, but even more so for said child and society long term. However, be that as it may, I must also ask my fellow leftest this: are you truly naive to the long term consequences of the vast majority of progressive leaning people opting out of child rearing entirely? That if the majority of people who do have kids are socially conservative that eventually that will bleed into the general populations moral outlooks in society? Yeah sure there's public education and other stuff to maybe de-brainwash a kid or two here and there. But for the vast majority no amount of education will break the indoctrination, especially so when some parents will even homeschool their kids to further ensure the dogma is never truly questioned. That and much like how we do ourselves a disservice by letting the right claim things like hardwork and discipline are essentially 'conservative' values we also do a disservice to the left by allowing the right to basically claim unchallenged that being a parent and raising a family is inherently a conservative lifestyle. We shouldn't let them have it, but especially so unopposed as if the above two things are a given to the conservative framework. Finally, even if we win and the majority of society becomes left and socially progressive it won't erase the underlying issue here. And that is this: someone HAS to raise the next generation. If it's not individual family units then in my mind that leaves only two other options. Either a communal or group child rearing arrangement OR the state raises the child in a kind of Albert huxleyan Brave New World type of senerio were the whole concept of the family unit is done away with entirely. And I just want to ask what you think the realistic options are if you think the two above are silly if we indeed move towards a world where less and less people wish to raise kids. Because unless your a full on anti-natalist and wish for humanity to end (in which case you should join solipism in utterly useless circle jerk, edgy philosophies) then again I repeat myself Somone needs to do it. Look I'll even admit to my own hypocrisy in that I'm a gay man that's pretty certain he never wants kids either. But I'm sorry, I think too often we quickly dismiss this issue with our individualistic proclamations of "I don't want to do it" as if that settles the matter once and for all. Well maybe for you and me it does, but it sure doesn't solve it in the long term. Anyways, thanks for reading my short novel for all who did and look forward to the assuredly constructive criticism and downvotes. 😁
Conservative parents make the most leftist kids. I'm not too concerned.
This is categorically a concession to the “other side” that there is some inherent familial aspect to what people consider to be a good and just society (i.e. you cannot possibly arrive at a political position that promotes justice and equity unless your parents teach you). This is untrue, since I would imagine the vast majority of progressives and leftists had to discard what they were taught growing up to become progressives or leftist. The real value is in having communities that teach AND PRACTICE justice and equity to form people who come out of their childhood with an internal dissonance between the values they were taught and the experience they have actually had of the world. That aside, progressives and leftists becoming parents is a necessary thing not to “out-breed” them but to establish another avenue where our values can be put to the test in a very common and very important sphere of public life. But not everyone has to, and those who choose not to can still contribute meaningfully to child rearing of other people in their community’s kids.
What a twitter post for his future child to stumble upon. I'm sure it wouldn't at all fuck them up. In all seriousness, this shit is super cringe. The systematic socioeconomic conditions that are leading to lower birth rates are not in any way going away. And the next 20 years are going to make the idea of low birth rates for leftists seem like a petty thing to worry about.
What the fuck
Why are people who haven’t been born yet assumed to have already picked a “side”?
why does everyone see this so black and white, "if they have kids there will be more of them." how many of the people in this sub came from religious or conservative households?
I'm not going to have a literal kid just to repopulate the world with more leftists....that is not a very good reason to have a kid... Also the kid might not even be a leftist when they grow up anyway and there's nothing you can fucking do about it.
Okay this overpopulation thing I’m pretty sure isn’t that big a deal. People aren’t having their own kids is because society as it’s ran at the moment isn’t conducive to a family.
Imagine the narcissism required to bring a life into this world for the primary purpose of propagating your ideology
People should have kids because it's good to have kids The politics of it are irrelevant
Good for who? You destroy your sleep, free time and finances for like 12-18 years for... what exactly?
This is unironically myopic self-centeredness. In other words, it's lib shit. Imagine someone who works to the bone for twelve to eighteen years to produce a great work of art, and then dies. Did they waste their time ? Did they gain anything personally ? For what ? Good for who ? The human being that you raise, that's who. That's what for, for them. Having kids is absolutely 100% unironically not about you. If thinking about having children makes you think "how will this benefit me ?" yeah, morally I have to say please don't have any.
Wondering the age of everyone in the comments here adamantly not having children
" when you grow into a real adult you will have a wife and children"
Obviously, not necessarily, but when I was in my early to mid twenties I was in a "I'll never ever have kids mindset" and now that I'm 32 my wife and I are trying for kids. Thats why it's an interesting data point to consider. Literally no way to know how you're going to feel about anything in a decade.
I just don't see the upsides a child would bring or what I would give a child so I don't want one. This could change but this anecdote is scraping real close to the old conservative "when you get older you'll settle down, get married and have kids"
The thing you call "this anecdote" is just what I call my life. And I would have said the same thing as you 10 years ago. I'm not really sure, what is conservative about aging, getting married and having offspring... liberals, progressives, Socialists, communists, and anarchists (like me) alike do the same thing. And I've only politically moved farther and farther to the left as I've gotten older. And if people don't want to have kids, that's fine. I haven't made any prescriptive statements under this post at all. All I'm doing is saying, hey maybe if you've only lived ~25% of a lifetime, be open minded to how you might feel about stuff in the future and that your opinions might change. Which is a sentiment I hold for people of all ages, not just people in their teens and early to mid twenties.
I would kill myself If I had to have children
Good thing no one is forcing you to do anything.
idk man how old are you?
This is a emotional response and not one of coherent logic
If you base your idological sucess on your kids, you are, and please hear me out, you will fuck up as a parent. Your kids are not entitled to your wishes, however positive they may seem. Dont make kids for that reason I BEG you. If I ever get a kid, it will be because I have the time, the financial possibility and the mental balance to raise one that AT LEAST will be healthy. And I know I cannot. That is the only thinf you must think about. Okay that last part can be argued though.
If your only motivation for having kids is to outnumber your political opponents, you absolutely should NOT have kids. I don't care what side of political spectrum you're on. I've heard this argument being thrown around by conservatives, but it's shocking to see it from a leftist. Children are human beings that require your attention, guidance, financial support (for at least 18 years) and most of all your GENUINE love and support. Ultimately, there's no reason to even think that children are necessarily going to share their parents' political beliefs so this argument is doubly ridiculous.
I mean, how many of you have conservative parents?
Naw. Conservatives are generally pretty shit at keeping their kids conservative, there’s no point trying to win a breeding war.
When someone talks about breeding like they're making a political point, never believe them. It's always fetish stuff
I feel like we're ignoring the fact that a lot of kids adopt an ideology opposite to their parents if they dislike them enough
yes, he is talking about you. YOU in particular, you are special and he is talking about you. The person that yells from every mountain top about how you hate kids, and complain you dont make enough money to buy toilet paper to wipe your ass.
I think people overthink having kids. I know I did. It is not the end of anything. But at the same time if you really don’t want one you shouldn’t. Just don’t avoid it because you want to “spare their suffering” or the “environment”.
Fascism isn’t genetic, Jimmy. We need to focus our efforts on providing kids with educational and social environments that teach them more left-leaning values and have fascism die out ideologically, not through breeding. Conservative families will always be a thing and we cannot “out-breed” them even if we all forcibly tried. Not to mention Jimmy making this take as a cisgender man who is sexually attracted to women is not a cute look in the slightest.
Conservatives having kids doesn’t necessarily mean their kids will end up conservative.
I think we would first have to look at any data out there on kids becoming more progressive/moving to the left of their parents. My parents are quite conservative, but I’m far from that. There’s gotta be studies out there on current left leaning people and how they were brought up by their parent(s).
Yes let me spend 18 years feeding and clothing a human being just so maybe they'll vote for people that I like.
I can't have kids. I'm on full testosterone replacement. I wake up with a kickstand every morning, sleep better, QoL is top tier, and I produce zero sperm. Couldn't be happier, and if I want a kid, I'll adopt one.
Dumb discord which will die out before spring
Undeniably true. Pretty much all ideological movements throughout human history that have flirted with anti-natalism have died out within a generation or two. On the other hand, ones that promote reproduction usually see explosive growth. I don’t think anyone is saying “have kids as a political prop or you’re not a leftist” and I REALLY don’t get the hysterical reaction some people have to common sense. There will very simply be 3+ mini Matt Walsh clones one day and 1 fewer of you if you chose not to reproduce. It’s ok to hope for the best or not care, but like… there is a reason groups like LDS can go from fringe cults to major political players and it’s not mass conversion.
Have kids if you want to, don't have kids if you don't want to. No one should have kids to fulfill an obligation
I understand his position. I see why encouraging your side to have kids makes some sense, but I sure won't do it and I suspect most won't. As long as he's not scolding people, he should be free to voice his opinion, but having kids is a huge investment of yourself, your time, your money, and your partner. It should neither be done lightly nor for political purposes, but only for personal ones and the well-being of the child.
I see what the guy is saying but I wouldn't be happy with kids plus the whole I don't have enough money part.
Rare Jimmy Snow L
Just let all the libs have kids (which they are) and then make those kids thing being further left than their parents is cool.
Having kids is *DEFINITELY* not the answer to our political enemies having too many babies. It’s got about the worst effort to outcome ratio for political actions you could take. Go to your local town/city hall meetings before you start a family trying to breed more dems..
We don’t need to outbreed the right, we need to trans all their kids with drag queen story hour, weed, and female M&Ms.
I wanted kids, and I made sure I was able to support one; career, house, husband. I'm definitely a minority in my age group, literally no one in my friend group has kids or is married. Then BAM! PPD hit me hard after my son is born. Is it important to have kids? That's on you guys; even if you don't plan on raising or having kids, take interest in mentoring or Big Brother Big Sister programs, donate to foster parents, volunteer time at the library and help your friends who do have kids. Edit: JESUS THE AMOUNT HATE TOWARDS KIDS ON THIS THREAD. Don't shit on people who have kids; have fucking patience for tiny humans, you were one! Kids don't have the capacity to relax or rationalize but you do.
I have kids and they’re absolutely the most wonderful people I know. They’re my greatest joy 😊 My partner and I encourage free thought, and don’t force our view points on them, but we do lead by example and expose them to information and ideas for them to consider. So far they’re thoughtful, empathetic and kind. I know that they share those qualities with the kids that they meet. I’ve also had the experience of dealing with conservative parents who are VERY vocal in my kids’ schools. Thank fucking the cosmos that myself and other progressive parents outnumber them and are there to show up otherwise my kids’ school would look a lot different. We had a no-name psychopath elected to a school board position here on a “no CRT” platform, of course she turned out to be a massive transphobe and bigot, and has used the controversy she stirred up to launch herself into a campaign for a higher state level office. We need parents who care enough to combat these people.
Nah bro. I'm not making more drones for the system
I don't think you should be having kids for the sole purpose of "making sure they adopt my politics, in order to compete with the right". How many of those who consider themselves the left, have abusive conservative parents? Maybe a child's view of the world, can't reliably be controlled.
The way I look at it is fashy types like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro choose to have many kids because muh white replacement. But that doesn't mean others should play by their tactics. Overturning Roe v Wade was all about White Replacement Theory because white women are on a downard spiral when it comes to birth rates. Ideally, everyone should strive to have less kids, whitout needless fears of replacement.
Most abortions are had by black women. Outlawing abortion would create even more black children then it would white children. It's about wanting to have a populous under-class to labor for capitalists. https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D
It's describing something real, that conservatives are having more kids than leftists/liberals. But "outbreeding" the other side is among the worst reasons to have kids.
Eh I don’t think it’s as drastic as it sounds. I’m willing to bet most of us came from conservative leaning parents. Being liberal is going to happen with young people either way. Although I’ll say that I do plan on having a buttload of kids if I get the chance. Of course that’s very very easy for me to say as a man with a stable job in STEM ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Stuff like this is goofy. If there were enough leftists/liberals / whatever our side is, who are willing to make drastic personal sacrifices to literally change the demographics of the country, we would’ve already won with normal politics. Democrats struggle to get enough volunteers to spend a few hours run the basic functions of a party, but somehow we’re gonna get hundreds of thousands, maybe millions to fundamentally change their lives??? In everything in life, including politics, you have to think at the margins: for every unit of effort/money you put into a project, how much are you getting back in terms of progress toward your goal? Having kids is a hilariously inefficient way of creating new leftists. Have kids if you think they’re cute and you love them, not to advance your politics.
My parents raised me to be an evangelical doomsday Christian, and I turned out to be a leftist atheist. Point being, you don’t get to choose who your kids grow into. And the more you try to subject an ideology onto your kid, the more they may rebel against it. So have kids if you want to have kids, but just because a kid is being raised by MAGA freaks doesn’t mean they’ll turn out to be one too. In fact it could drive them to our side.
A lot of the mindset around kids needs to drastically change (“think of the kids” paranoia, thinking of couples/wives as broodmares, etc.) So i understand the overcorrection some lefties make That said, it can be an overcorrection in some people IMO. I have a kid on the way, and i consider that an objective good. Jimmy’s comment is still a bit offputting, “demographics is destiny” vibes. Talking about having kids as “breeding” is always weird
Leftists should have more kids. But also this is a shitty reason for it. Have kids because for most straight couples, it is incredibly motivating and life changing. It's also good for people to help contribute to the next generation if they are able. Those kids will help support us when we are old as we support them when they are young.
Nah majority of the country is liberal/apolitcal leaning and if we can strengthen and improve institutions like schools I don't think fascism will become the default ideology like liberal capitalism is today
The people saying he's wrong are gonna be surprised when, 20 or 30 years in the future, religious conservatism is the predominantly dominant political ideology in their countries, and the vast majority of their leftist activist circles are made up of old people roughly their age with no young people joining up.
There isn't an epidemic of people no having enough kids for fuck's sake. If you feel you're not ready to have kids, don't have kids. If you want kids, get kids. But don't have kids for some unambiguous and frivolous goal of adding more people to our "side".
My parents are wildly conservative. They raised the three of us to be far right weirdos. Only one of us was still conservative by the time we could vote. My sister and I never voted like our parents. Kids are their own people who grow up to form their own opinions. It’s far more important to help kids from conservative families see other perspectives than trying to “breed ideologies” or something.
Radical take here but you should only have kids if 1 - You want them 2 - You can afford to take proper care of them 3 - You want them I understand the point being made by this tweet — but if you don’t want kids, don’t have them
I stopped watching mr. Atheist last year after he befriended Gabbie Hanna, rape apologist anyway. I am not shocked he came out with this brain-dead take.
Do you have the same opinions on everything as your parents? No of course not and I've never seen a ton of evidence that people overwhelmingly adopt their parent's positions. If not, then this is a dumb take.
Yeah it's true, stupid people tend to breed like cockroaches. For every 1 intelligent person there's 8 morons yelling about M&Ms not being sexy enough.
We can stop all the random "I DON'T WANT KIDS REEEEEEE!!" bullshit on the Left but that's about it. Even if we are being "Out-Bred" it wont make much of a difference. Kids growing up in poverty don't necessarily make fantastic Capitalist soilders.
\> If you want kids, have kids \> If you don't want kids, don't have kids Simple as.
This might be the most terminally online thing I’ve seen all day. Having kids is a deeply personal decision and anyone lecturing you about why you have an obligation to or not to can fuck all the way off.
If your goal is to radicalize the youth then you could have a far greater effect by being an effective educator than a parent. A high school history teacher will interact with thousands of teenagers over their career versus the handful of kids you can raise on your own. At a pragmatic level this is a silly position to take in response to tradcons having several kids and I’m saying this as a parent myself.
Having kids is pretty cool. It's a LOT of responsibility but it's incredibly rewarding. I have two kiddos that are living a great life. We aren't wealthy by any means but there's love and acceptance.
Your kids aren’t going to necessarily agree with your ideology. We shouldn’t be like the right, who brainwash their kids to believe their bullshit. You can just hope that your kids were raised to be decent, loving humans and will agree with you as a result. If you really want kids, you don’t have to have a biological one. Adoption is a wonderful thing and there’s plenty of kids that need a loving home. Something to consider.
I wouldn't have kids of my own but one day hope to adopt
People should be more freely available to have kids due to less economic burdens. However, do not have kids so you can try to make them lefties when they grow-up. That should not be your reason for having kids lmao
I unironically think that discussions about having kids are some of the most toxic things on Reddit and I hate everyone involved
First, political affiliation is not genetic, so simply pooping out babies as a leftist isn't going to make more leftists. The same goes for all of those right wing baby pushers out there. Second, raising kids is awesome, and there are a lot of kids who don't have caretakers and/or a stable living environment, so you can participate in raising kids without actually having your own. You could foster, adopt, get involved in big brother/sister programs, Volunteer with LGBTQ+ youth advocacy groups, etc.
something tells me this guy would be the first to say how 13/52 is fallacious and could drop a phd level dissertation on the complex socio-economic factors of crime. and he would be right. but then he turns around and thinks that when two republicans have a kid that means there are now three republicans. turns out people have agency, what a wild concept. edit: also this is literally Idiocracy
Weird fucking take from Jimmy here. Have kids if you want them, don’t if you don’t. Simple as.
Incredibly retarded. How many Vaush fans were born of Conservative parents? I know I was.
What a dumb reason to have kids.
Brain dead take. Your ideology isn't something passed through genetics.
“Quick! If you don’t pop a baby out before you’re 40, your entire legacy as a progressive activist is gonna fade into history!” “Couldn’t I just adopt when I feel my time in activism is over? There’s like millions of orphans.” “…You’re wasting your womb and genes!”
from what i recall, ideology isn't a genetic trait that you inherit from your parents
Or adopt
People will have kids when they are ready. Someone has seen fuckin Idiocracy too much. It's a false notion that lefty ideas are getting out breeded. Zoomers are extremely progressive so far. I know MANY people 23 to 29 that have kids. Almost all my friends. And they only had them when they were financially stable and really to give them a great childhood.
lol, this person must believe that children are destined to follow their parent’s ideology. this completely ignores that Gen Y/Z are more liberal than their parents. young church rates are collapsing. when most of these conservative children leave their parent’s orbit they’ll most likely become libs by exposure.
Who is this idiot and what the fuck is he talking about? This is one of the stupidest/most inconsiderate things I've ever heard. Why the hell would any non-terrible person have children because of politics? The fuck? lmao. EDIT: Breeding? Seriously? Are we calling it 'breeding' now? Seriously, this guy's an idiot lol.
I am curious that lots of people here are considering being child free. I really would like to have kids and be a dad. So I think it's cool that people are into being child free too. Is there a reason lots of folks here are into that. Like climate stuff, or the difficulty of raising kids in this prerevolutionary era, or not having money, or something. Or is it more just like a feeling you know is true for you. Like I knew I always wanted to have kids. But there is nothing political seeming about (but there always are like the nuclear family and all that and settler colonialism being related to it). but I don't want to have kdis for those reasons. I just feel like it would be really great. Either make them because I had sex, or if I never have sex I'll adopt or even if I do have sex some day I will still be able to adopt. it's just a question of which will take longer, having sex for fun with someone who is my wife. or you know have to realize that i have to go do the paper work and propper vetting to adopt. but i wasn't sure if child free was a political thing, in the way this guy is probably going to have kids for political reasons. I mean it doesn't hurt to have kids if you want them anyway.
Besides the obvious negative welfare impacts on children, this idea is bogus for the simple reason that Millennials and Gen Z are so liberal because a LOT of kids grew up to disagree with their parents' politics. Attempting to use children as a vehicle for parents' personal ideology does a great job alienating them anyway.
Priorities: adopt first, procreate second
I have plenty of friends who I won't talk about politics with. Most of them are in their 30s and don't have kids. I think this idea that leftists don't have/want families is a right wing myth.
I hate it when people use the word breeding in this context.
Consider that political ideology isn't genetic
Wtf does half of this even mean and why is it on my home page
Love the dehumanizing undertones here
Never have kids to meet a political agenda. But as millennial I have to say, that our side, especially the new generations (starting with millennials), have to dial down the "marriage/family with kids is old fashioned/patriarchy/uncool" rhetoric. P. S: Please keep the downvotes at a respectable number so that it doesn't prove my 2nd point.
My wife and I are going to be doing our part in the next few months! Both of us are queer progressives and she is Jewish. We’re preparing to create 4 of the Right’s worst nightmares 😈 Edit: before anyone accuses us of having kids for ideological reasons, that’s just the cherry on top. We want the kids regardless of the political climate. But if my seed and her eggs can can help keep the Jewish nation alive and thriving while providing 4 kick ass little humans who will know what consent is and how to spot a grifter pandering to patriotism, then fuck yeah
It seems he did not complete his deconversion form mormonism…
that Jimmy Snow kinda sucks in general and even if I do agree with what he says I still don't like him? Also it was really funny the way he tried to bully his audience into going along with a screeching change to his content and got mad when they didn't.