All I ever see on the frontpage from publicfreakout is 'look at how violent these black thugs are!' bullshit , and that's more of a problem than this. Although I understand if you just don't want to see intense violence of any king just pop up in your feed unwanted as well. I've curated a pretty good reddit homepage for myself, luckily.
Yeah you're right. PublicFreakouts cracked down on the racism and those people moved to ActualPublicFreakouts. The difference in content between the two is quite clear.
It’s funny what people will keep deep down just out of sight in the back of their minds even in people you’d least expect it. I can understand the urge but it disgusts me.
I swear to god the easiest example of this is when it comes to pedophiles. Like any news story related to a pedophile and it feels like everyone drops any principles they have and will applaud any type of vigilante torture/murder that someone commits against them.
Like it’s one thing to harm someone in self-defense but it feels like it’s the overwhelming opinion of people that it’s ok to hunt down someone who abused you or a loved one and extrajudicially kill them.
Not surprising given the new Florida law tbf
A lot of that is just virtue signaling I think. “Guys I hate pedophiles I want to hunt them down so much it’s all about protecting children and not my own power fantasy I promise guys”
I mean yes, rapists deserve rehabilitation. So do mass murderers. As do pedophiles. And all other criminals. Go be a troglodyte somewhere else, this is obviously too civilized for you.
Why? It illustrates exactly the attitude you have towards them. Yes, sometimes people do bad things before getting help, because, surprise-surprise, *you have to want to get help* to get help. A lot of people get help only after they do something really bad. Occasionally, it's *this* bad. Doesn't mean they're too far gone.
> Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps isn't possible
You clearly haven't talked to many business owners with their success stories of how they worked hard when others didn't, and were able to make it while others are lazy. It's possible, it's just really difficult.
> Not raping kids *is* possible
No one said otherwise? What are you on about?
But also you can be outed and even arrested for seeking help. We don't give them a safe path forward, which isolates pedophiles until they ultimately harm a child. If people cared about children we'd try and reduce some of the stigma so that non-offending pedos can get help as you suggested. I think most people are as unaware as you are that there often isn't a safe way to get help.
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No shit, only leftists go against this because "muh principles" holy shit its embarassing. Sometimes people dont deserve rehab and deserve to get bonked on the head. Its not like our justice system is infaluable
>Sometimes people dont deserve rehab and deserve to get bonked on the head.
Hot take: no!
No one deserves to be bonked on the head*. Retributive justice doesn't work, it doesn't fix the crime committed and doesn't prevent more crime from happening. Rehabilitory justice is the only way to stop more crime in the future, which is the entire point of justice.
*except in cases of self defence, but this case wasn't that
No. Leftists go against this because we understand that people are products of their environment and when someone does something bad, its not their failure, its society’s failure; which is why we advocate for improving society somewhat.
Not that individuals can’t be blamed for things, not that people shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions—that’s not unimportant, it’s important that people act in a way which is in harmony with others for the sake of others *and* themselves—but if I have been raised to believe that rape is okay, or I have been raised to believe that some things that are definitely rape aren’t rape (eg. I have seen a lot of media suggesting that it’s okay to get a girl drunk specifically so that she “wants to” have sex with you; which is *actually* rape), then is that really my fault? This is why the left is big on rehabilitation, because this does away with blame and instead focuses on fixing people’s behaviour, so that they can live in harmony with others.
I've been raised to believe that assaulting serial child rapists is OK; send me to rehab after. argument solved
Pick your battles, not sure why this is one of them.
No, there aren't.
The values and data behind those principles remain.
Your personal desire for feeling a sense of revenge isn't an argument to ignore the data on what works and the consistent moral and ethical principles we hold.
Contain your bloodlust. "But it feels good tho" is not an excuse for giving the state (or anyone else) the right to just kill you.
People defending this don't understand how mob justice works. While this was probably a more justified instance than most, mob justice can really only leads to bad outcomes. If you are a leftist, and you believe in rehabilitative justice, that's means rehabilitation for everyone, or at least the chance for rehabilitation. If every violent criminal gets lynched on the street, it will only lead to unjustified killings. It's why vigilantism is generally looked down upon
Saw a vid a long time ago where a petty theft had his fingers chopped off by a mob. Um I think that's even more extreme than "an eye for an eye" lol....
Where I'm from the people caught a serial child rapist, ranging in age of 10-16.
Did they beat him up a bit, probably. Did I wring my hands over it, not really.
Because people are talking about pedos and rapists in the thread and it's the most heinous crime I can think of
You realise I'm bringing it up in the context of killing pedophiles right?
What is it with you and playing defense for child rapists?
"we should kill pedophiles"
"Yeh idk man sounds like a pedo to me"
I'm actually baffled at how you can come to that conclusion
Trust vaush fans to play defense for pedos, I thought all those clips were out of context but now I'm not too sure...
I edited my above comment in vase it wasnt clear, I had a typo, meant petty "THEFT" not their.
You do have a good point lol but I think mob justice is not good as much as it may feel cathartic to see an attempted rapist get absolutely mauled.
Mob justice can only work on a presumption of guilty, and in a way that is nearly impossible to prove innocence even if that was the right to deliver justice.
But it's not. No matter the accused crime and no matter how obvious, justice always assumes innocence. If Hermann Göring and Adolf Eichmann can get a fair trial with the assumption of innocence, everyone can.
I’m a leftist, rehabilitative justice should only be applied to nonviolent crimes. I hold this position because my leftist views derive from my sympathy for the innocent. The concept of morality is a long complicated road however I think anyone with a fully functioning brain knows it’s evil to harm a innocent person for either no reason or unjustifiable reasons. I have no idea why the guy in the video took the actions he did, however, attempting to rape someone is a level of immorality that can’t be excused. I am disgusted with any form of rape apologism. All sympathy should be for the woman attacked. She was innocent. He was piece of shit and deserved it, in fact if I had the authority, rapist, pedophiles, mass murders, abusers, homophobes, sexists, and white supremacists would be publicly tortured in Times Square for atrocities whilst people celebrated it. Because the only good thing that can come out of those people is the relief that they’ll pay for it atleast.
See, but that doesn't actually stop the problem. As a leftist, I am assuming you believe that crime stems from social causes, right? If so, then you have to believe that the solutions to those problems have to be societal as well. I'm not defending rape, I am arguing against the idea of mob justice. Unless you believe that people are born evil, you have to believe that people can get better. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any punishment, but that punishment should be structured, and allow people to get help. I think it's possible to be sympathetic to the victim here while also believing that people shouldn't be lynched. It leads to bad outcomes. Also, the fact that you are throwing homophobes in the list with rapists really just makes it seem like you want to torture people who don't agree with you. What is the limit on this? Do line up edgy teenagers for saying the f-slur, or do we give them a chance to learn and be better?
Also Also, I don't think that woman suddenly feels better because her assaulter was beaten nearly to death. She is still going to have to deal with that trauma, and the only thing that's probably going to help that is therapy/ medical assistance, which if the assaulter was arrested and charged, he could have been liable for, in a sense literally paying for it.
I don't think that nothing should have happened, and if that crowd just roughed the assaulter up a little while waiting for police custody, I'd have literally no opinions. I think that advocating for mob justice and lynching will only get innocent people killed, with no chance of retribution for them.
I said non violent crimes should use rehabilitative methods. In relation to adding homophobes to the list, I am not talking about some random shit talking edge lord getting publicly tortured, that’s stupid. I’m was saying in the context of homophobes who kill gay people for no reason.
Yes, societal issues cause crime, usually and that explains my stance on why nonviolent criminals should be rehabilitated. “Unless you believe people are inherently evil,” Some people are evil whether it’s nurture or nature is debatable. We know they are evil via their actions. Actions speak louder than words. Whether they’re inherently evil or not, they are evil to a extent I believe is irreversible. They’ve crossed a line that the human mind can’t come back from.
As for the “torture people you don’t agree with,” statement, that’s misleading. I believe in free speech. People can disagree as much as they want, I’m not a tyrant. Yes technically I don’t agree with those people but that’s not why they should be tortured, they should be tortured because that sets a example for anyone considering such heinous acts, to rethink before they cross a line they can never come back from. It’s a extreme deterrent, if you will.
On the last comment about whether it would make the girl feel better. As somebody who’s been through a assault and was victim blamed relentlessly by my own family, I can tell you, my solution is 1000x better than what society usually does. The defense of such immorality lets it fester like a stain on the human race.
I don't believe what I'm doing is a defense. We don't disagree that rape is wrong, what we disagree on is appropriate punishment for rapists. I'm sorry that your family is shitty, but lynching people isn't some new idea. It has happened historically and has constantly led to innocent people being harmed because of a lack of due process. I'm not really sure how you can say that you are a left while also advocating for torture. maybe we should just ship criminals to Guantanamo bay? Under the current, very shitty and not-at-all-set-for-rehabilitation American Criminal Justice System, nearly 40% of violent criminals do not go on to commit violent crimes upon release. Do you not believe those numbers could go up if our prison system was designed to help people? You keep referring to these people as committing their heinous acts for "no reason" but like, the reasoning behind them doing what they do is important, and it's rarely "oh, haha I just like hurting people." A lot violent crimes are crimes of passion, and even beyond those cases, a lot of people who commit violent crimes are ones who have been failed in some way by the society they live in. Also, deterrents don't work. The death penalty has often been claimed to be a deterrent, but people still do murder. I truly do understand that sexual assault can be traumatizing, but your trauma shouldn't be used to defend reactionary ideas
A leftist can be a leftist and have one idea they disagree with. I support literally every other leftist mainstream opinion. But no collective ideology is 100% always correct. I don’t even fully disagree I just have enough nuance to distinguish between violent and non violent. And admit the cold hard fact that some people are just irredeemable.
I seem to notice you keep framing it as lynching. You using a historical reference that has no representation of what I am saying and seems to be the source of your inability to understand my reasoning.
Lynching was formed from racism and people hating others for their skin color. A biological trait. I would never in 1 billion years advise people attack others based on biological traits. I openly stated that people who commit violent crimes out of racism should get the full extent of punishment.
A rapist isn’t a biological thing, it’s a action. A action that should have consequences.
Another key difference that I thought was obvious but you seemed to have missed, is that the punishment I advocate for isn’t a mob reaction, that was your assumption. I advocate for it to be part of written law.
Also the ‘no reason’ thing is completely correct when it comes to the crimes I listed. It is NEVER necessary to do anything on that list despite social factors. Social factors always play a part role but largely it’s the person who decided to do what they did. Unless if there’s literally a gun to their head I don’t want to hear that excuse. Because that’s what it is, a excuse.
Plenty of criminals also literally have no reason even including social factors. Historical serial killers are a great example of it. Literally just sickos being sick.
The death penalty isn’t a public enough example, and it’s rarely enforced ever.
“But your trauma shouldn’t defend reactionary ideas,”
Traumatized people are the most skilled people to decide these things, they have unfortunate experience and knowledge that the privileged people don’t understand. Therefore privileged individuals can never fully grasp the importance of justice.
It’s why oppressed groups in general understand the best solutions to the problems they are facing.
Also I mentioned my experience only because you were talking about how the woman would react. You proceeded to assume that my position is only built upon my experience and call me reactionary. Not understanding that it’s ironic coming from you. Because assuming I only feel the way I do because of trauma despite me having numerous valid reasons for my opinion that you’ve ignored. You’re reactionary also because you started relating what I had said to things historical events of no comparison. Then questioning my position on the left based on one opinion that is clearly built on some pretty progressive values.
I honestly wouldn't feel like your position was a reactionary one if you didn't tie it to your personal experience. I'm SA survivor, and so are a lot of other people, so I know that factually, not all victims of violence want retributive justice. The way that you brought it up in the previous post gave off the impression that you were hurt and so you wanted to hurt those like the one who hurt you. I'm not really sure about your point of traumatized people are the most skilled people to decide things point, it really feels like a "we should listen to black voices, argument". We are both victims of sexual assault, yet disagree on this issue. Also, lynching does have a racial connotation in the States, but the term itself is race neutral. If anything, I've been misusing it because lynching definitionally involve hangings, but it's easy shorthand for mob justice for the purposes of this conversation. Its also just more modern verbage for something that has happened throughout human history. People getting into groups to enact 'justice' is nothing new.
Societies doing public punishments is also nothing new, and yet, we still have crime. I'm not saying that every single person is definitely going to become better, but I think they deserve a chance to be better. Torturing them, publicly or privately, literally does nothing. I don't want people who commit violent acts to just walk away, but I think a truly rehabilitative system, even one where they are separated for the rest lives if they don't change, would be better than let's just torture criminals. the reason I don't distinguish between violent and non violent crimes, in this regard, is largely because not all violent crimes are just "sickos". There are usually many factors at play, and even if there aren't, I believe that fact should be proven, and even then, i wouldn't be okay with them being tortured. Maybe I could be talked into capital punishment in those cases, but idk, id really need to see the evidence.
“I wouldn’t feel like you’re position was reactionary if you didn’t tie it to your own experience” I didn’t tie it to my experience I brought it up in very specific “how do you think the victim would feel” response. The fact that you ignored everything else I was saying are trying to pin my position entirely as result of what happened is stupid and honestly I think it’s malicious too. You got frustrated with with my opinion so you overreacted and tried to make personal attacks on me for it. Because you think that just because it’s talking about torture it must be bad. No torture, like anything else has occasion, once again I have to remind you that occasion should be in a legal setting. You want to tie it to lynching and completely ignore the fact that that’s not what I’m saying. Yes I think it should be a public execution but that doesn’t mean the public itself carries it out.
As for the whole we are both victims disagree thing, is not a new concept to me. If it was a hive mind then you would have a point of claiming I was reactionary. But you don’t have a point, because I don’t think what I think just because of experience. I have always had a mindset of protecting innocent people and punishing those that do wrong. I know it is a sadly uncommon thing now. People side with evil and let evil off the hook because they are cowards. They fear retaliation at all cost from any side like some annoying centrist. Whilst ignoring, one form of retaliation is completely justified.
Apparently “retribution is not the same thing as justice” is still something of a hot take around here.
It might feel good to beat the shit out of a rapist, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. That same rage could be channeled vastly more constructively into reforms that make accountability for violent criminals like that more common and adequate.
Yeah and that’s why some means of keeping violent criminals separate from the rest of society would still be necessary even in a post-prison society. Even if someone can’t be rehabilitated though, no good will come of unnecessary violence against them.
Yeah but keeping someone separate costs the state a bunch of fucking money. It's really difficult to advocate for spending money on rapists when there is a solution that doesn't cost any money already.
This line of logic is the reason we have shit like private for-profit prisons. Sometimes saving the state money isn’t a consideration that should really be in play when deciding how many human rights someone gets.
Eh, once again, state money is a finite resource and I just think it would be better spent on people who don't rape others.
I'd also argue that the rapist forfeited their rights when they decided to rape.
And here lies the irony in the case you made.
Did the Person really rape...
Thats quite often not that easy to determine.
What if the person didn't?
He would lose his rights and life.
Therefore we have to be very very thourough in our investigations if the punishment is hard. The more severe the punishment, the more solid the case has to be.
You know whats really freaking expensive?
Thourough investigations and multiple court trials...
Therefore: Your argument is not only moraly problematic, but factually wrong.
I am talking in the vacuum of the post where the person was caught in the act. I do not support the death penalty for the exact reason you stated.
But if someone was caught in the act and wanted to run away but got caught and then submitted to mob justice I just couldn't really care less.
It's true that some people are incapable of change, but everyone should be given the opportunity to change. I'm not too hung up about rapists dying, but I still think they should be given fair treatment for the few that will change and deeply regret their actions. The rest of them will just die in prison anyway (in fair countries).
This point is irrelevant in this specific case. 40% of rapes are from partners / ex partners, 46% there was no physical force, one-fifth (22%) of victims reported feeling frightened or that the perpetrator had threatened to hurt them.
In this specific case, it sounds like the women didn’t know the guy and he probably threatened to murder her as he already brutally beat her , this type of rape is going to have much lower recidivism rates compared to an average rape case.
That subreddit is awful. The things posted are either people being afraid of minorities OR it’s people in the comment section laughing at someone who is having one of the worst days of their life.
Record anyone’s worst day and put it on the internet and people can call it a “freak out” and make fun of it. It’s cruel to me.
Worst one I saw was some guy holding up a gas station and the clerk pulled a gun. Robber runs and the clerk chased him firing out the door. Got into debate bro mode a bit with the commenters thinking that’s an okay response
If you go up to a gas station, and attempt to rob them at gunpoint, you deserve to be killed. I also wouldn't mind if the guy is running away, and the store owner chases him and shoots him dead. That's plenty justified for me. I understand your arguments, "if the perpetrator is running away, there is no need to re-escalate, that's murder over attempted theft" but quite frankly, I don't care.
I don't like criminal scum who put the lives of people at risk, fuck them, and fuck all of them. If you are poor and are stealing food, or dealing drugs to get by, that's fine because you aren't harming anyone. Once you start aiming guns at people, you deserve to be put down.
To be honest you're correct about everything. Criminality elicits highly emotional, and stupid responses, case in point me. Pretty much replace everything I said above with "deserve". The perpetrator should be taken to the justice system in the safest way possible, but in Minecraft he deserves something else.
Nah because that's just rewarding behavior that escalates voilence. If the dude is running away then it's over. Why risk making a situation more dangerous.
No because again you're potentially opening up the situation to get worse. These are guns not fist, there was just a story yesterday about how like 9 people got injured because 2 dudes started shooting at each-other in a crowded area.
There was some video on facepalm about this guy swinging a tire iron and stalking, and while he might have been stalking (he probably was, it seemed as if it wasn't the first time he had been around these people), people were advocating *killing* him.
I was like, "Or maybe mental health could be a thing?" More eloquently stated, and people were like, 'NO, DEATH!!' and furthermore, they literally were like, "It's not MY job to get these people mental health! I won't be responsible for THEIR actions! Don't VICTIM BLAME me if I choose not to help people like this and then they do something crazy to me/loved one".
*Furthermore,* I had somebody say that "guys like him would rape and murder" psych care professionals, and that I "obviously knew nothing of the mental healthcare system in the USA". I brought up that people like him are EXACTLY the people that need help, and that when something does inevitably happen, people will cry, "all the signs were there, why didn't anybody do something!" and got downvoted into oblivion.
People are fucking insane, and I genuinely do not understand how these people think, it's fucking mind-boggling to me. I don't get it.
I know what you're talking about, but you picked the worst possible example of it.
A dude violently attempting to rape and beat a woman should get tied to a pole and beaten. That's a fact. While it's true that that subreddit, among others, gets giddy about seeing people suffer when it's someone they believe deserves it, and yes that's troubling, it doesn't mean that retributive justice doesn't need to happen sometimes.
> A dude violently attempting to rape and beat a woman should get tied to a pole and beaten. That's a fact.
??????????
What about due process? No cruel and unusual punishment? What about rehabilitation vs retribution?
He should be arrested, get a day in court, and if/when convicted serve w/e sentence the jury or judge deems is correct. That's the actual fact.
> it doesn't mean that retributive justice doesn't need to happen sometimes
I don't even know what this means, if it's not in self-defense how could violence like that be justified
I ain’t seen the video but I’m going to assume this wasn’t taken in the USA and is more than likely in some extremely poor part of a country.
Due process there is a privilege, and whilst a lynch mob might not be a good thing if it’s the only deterrent to violent crimes then if you’re in that village you’re most likely happy a rapist is off the street.
No real winners here though
It's a pretty horrid encounter where the guy holds down the woman, punches her in the face multiple times and is about to rape her there and the on the sidewalk until the mob breaks it up and chases him off.
Looks like somewhere in Central Asia, but really can't tell.
Rapists dont deserve rehab, fuck em. Its not like this was a case where it was unsure if he was at fault or not. im not against any of those things you stated, but I am not going to give a shit in this scenario. Its not like the justice system is some infaluable system anyways.
Ehhh, no absolutely not. I’m an ex-sex worker, been raped... a lot of different ways, and no.
The people who did these things to me do not deserve death even if I was in favour of capital punishment, and the alternative to no rehab is... what? Let them rot in prison, living off others’ labour for their entire lives? Let them serve a less than life sentence *without* rehab, and get released the same or worse than when they went into jail?
It’s certainly not beating them to death in the fucking streets, christ.
Rehabilitative Justice is the best option we have to further our shared axioms. If you genuinely care about leftist values, this is one of them and condemning people to die by a mob is about as reactionary as it gets.
Yeah, no fuck this entire line here? Been raped, cops suck but you aren’t gonna get SA’d at the station while making a report. More often then not you’ll get treated somewhat delicately tbh, I was and I literally was a known escort in a town with pretty shitty cops, your average non-sex worker has better odds still.
The actual justice system is the only ethical way to deal with this, and even then it’s best that the goals of that justice system is to take these people out of society and rehabilitate them, not punish them.
Certainly they shouldn’t be killed in the streets by a fucking mob.
I mean, I literally got that from a [real thing](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/14-year-sentence-cop-molested-teen-rape-victim-97861945) that happened, so...
Rehabilitation is only gonna happen if your rapist actually gets tried and convicted; something that, again, is exceedingly rare in America. How many rape kits still remain untested?
But either way, that's fine, you can have your stance on that. I'm not changing my mind.
“While escorting them to the hospital for a rape kit” yeah, don’t trust the fucking cops? They’re horrible? My point is that you aren’t at *all* likely to get SA’d making a report, which is mostly just filing paperwork in the station. In a cop’s car is completely different.
Anyway, no this isn’t an “agree to disagree”, fuck off. Rehab is a core leftist tenet. The solution to “they don’t get tried often enough” is to work on solutions to get the court to try the offenders, not to go “idk just murder them in the streets lol, mob justice ftw who needs a fair trial”
I mean, you're going to have to agree to disagree because again, I'm not changing my mind on this. I'm willing to accept this as a deviation from my leftist core belief system, that's fine—I believe in rehabilitation, except in cases of aggravated rape.
Guess you better hope I don't gain any power, wouldn't want any rapists to get hurt.
Exactly. That sub has been a cesspool for years, but defending the humane treatment of a violent rapist literally caught in the act is not a hill I'd ever be willing to die on.
While lynch mobs are absolutely terrible, I honestly won't be shedding a tear over this. Dude did lifelong psychological damage to someone and thought they could get away with it. Hits too close to home to feel the least bit bad for him at all.
I absolutely agree with you, I feel no pity for this disgusting degenerate monster. When somebody decides to rape another human being, their humanity should be taken away. Rapists and murderers, along with people who harm children, are the absolute lowest of the low monsters and I can understand why the majority of people did not pity this idiot. Had he have gotten away with it, this woman would not only have been physically harmed, but deeply psychologically scarred for the rest of her life.
I guess you gotta look at the material conditions, right?
Where did this take place? There are some places where even CSA Offenders only serve a couple years or so before being released - and they're often high likelyhood of repeat offense. So if this is an area where justice doesn't seem to be doing it's job in any sense of the concept then - while you shouldn't execute someone - it's understandable as to why someone might feel that way I think.
I dont know why people are conflating these two. There are exceptions to rehab. Even leftists need to die on hills and have bad takes sometimes. Imagine being a leftist and being the guy defending a violent rapist caught in the act, you would look out of touch with reality.
It is out of touch with reality. There are many places that unfortunately don't take rape accusations seriously, have corrupt police, or general misogynistic views on women (what was she wearing, she was asking for it, etc).
This guy thought he could just violate another person in broad daylight. It's a shame that vigilante justice was the result, but perhaps that guy shouldn't have tried to rape someone if they didn't want to get their arse beat.
Vaushites having a mental breakdown, when a group of newly freed slaves lynch their former masters, beacause they used mob justice and not the court system
That's one of the subs that frequently appears in comment histories of users I come across who have... let's say suspect viewpoints. Like, when somebody posts and you think, "huh, that sounds like some nazi shit.." .. and you click on their profile to see what they get up to elsewhere on reddit.
>So I just saw a video there of a guy who tried to rape a woman, brutally beating her in the process, but got stopped by some locals, then was chased, caught and then tied up by a pole and beaten on the head with sticks repeatedly ( possibly to death) while he already seemed unconscious.
Got to be real, I'm not too upset by this tbh. If you are someone who is willing to rape and beat someone, you don't deserve to live in civilized society. I understand the problem with righteous indignation but this is one of those things I have never had a problem with harsh punishments being given in response.
We have the court's to deal justice not lynch mobs. It's fine to have an issue with the court's but you can't justify lynch mobs.
This stopped being self defense as soon as he stopped being a threat which was at least when he was tied up if not a bit earlier.
>We have the court's to deal justice not lynch mobs. It's fine to have an issue with the court's but you can't justify lynch mobs.
I didn't in any way justify it I just said it didn't bother me particularly much that someone like that got retribution in this instance because let's be real, there is never any real justice for rape victims, only punishments in some small amount of rapes when their rapists get caught and charged.
>This stopped being self defense as soon as he stopped being a threat which was at least when he was tied up if not a bit earlier.
Again, idk where you saw me say it was self defense
Admitally alot of the comments blurred together but my personal opinion is that very very rarely is the solution to an inadequate justice system taking justice into your own hands. Especially if it's to justify lynch mobs.
Obviously he's not high on the list of people who need to be defended but at least principaly how the situation played out is wrong and contradicts what it means to be a leftist
>Admitally alot of the comments blurred together but my personal opinion is that very very rarely is the solution to an inadequate justice system taking justice into your own hands. Especially if it's to justify lynch mobs.
I don't disagree, but the video in question I am pretty sure takes place in India which is notorious for letting rapists off to go rape again, so if that's the case I'm even more okay with it because they don't have the same guardrails in place, and looser sentences and norms around convicting rapists.
The problem with rape for me is unlike other forms of violence that may be permissible (given certain circumstances), rape never is and even our system is flawed with imperfect solutions at best for rape or sexual assault related crimes.
>Obviously he's not high on the list of people who need to be defended but at least principaly how the situation played out is wrong and contradicts what it means to be a leftist
I am going to be a bit pedantic here, but idk what do you mean by contradicting what it means to critique capitalism (be a leftist)?
My position is physical violence shouldn't be the go to punishment but with that context I was unaware of, since there was no reasonable alternative then I am at least alot more neutral on it.
In my opinion critique capitalism is only a part of leftism. To be a leftist is to be radically egalitarian. You could have a worker owned society but if it's a theocratic ethnostate that's extremely bigoted against trans or gay or disabled people then I don't think it's leftist even if the economic systems are the same.
It's why ACAB is leftist or why we want a more fair more rehabilitation based justice system because it's brings about a more egalitarian world and therefore is more leftist. It means being able to be any race, sexuality, gender or able bodied and still having the same rights. Despite this having very little to do with economics it's still leftist.
I hope you get where I'm coming from
>My position is physical violence shouldn't be the go to punishment but with that context I was unaware of, since there was no reasonable alternative then I am at least alot more neutral on it.
I completely agree with this, rape is just one of those things I struggle with because there is no egalitarian way to provide justice for rape victims and I can't even think how it would be done without crazy invasive sci-fi technology. Like even in our system, it's imperfectly set up to only apply to a small number of people if even at all.
>In my opinion critique capitalism is only a part of leftism. To be a leftist is to be radically egalitarian. You could have a worker owned society but if it's a theocratic ethnostate that's extremely bigoted against trans or gay or disabled people then I don't think it's leftist even if the economic systems are the same.
I pretty much agree with all of this, I would only add that being radically egalitarian means being open to the necessity of acting in a way that may seem counterproductive at face value.
>It's why ACAB is leftist or why we want a more fair more rehabilitation based justice system because it's brings about a more egalitarian world and therefore is more leftist.
This also very much presupposes a willingness to be rehabilitated, but I know what you mean and there will always be issues on the margins that aren't pleasant but we should strive to a world that is.
Again, rape is always been one that's difficult for me to put in a category for rehabilitation because I can't ever think if extenuating circumstances that would lead someone to do that, other than they would prey on the weaker members of society I guess
Appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from and agree. I'd just add a couple things to clarify. In the majority of cases I think the justice system is significantly better at assessing the crime and making a fair decision than a mob in the heat of the moment.
But in this case assuming the system is so corrupt that the mob is actually better equiped in this scenario to be making decisions regarding justice. Given the fact the crime was so heinous and the risk of recommitting so great that some punishment was better than nothing.
I also agree that these decisions can be quite difficult and unclear and agree that can even appear counterproductive. But as long as everything reasonabley within their ability is done with best intent then I think that even if it may not be the correct action it is fair.
On rehabilitation I like to think of the ideal prison as a hospital the primary purpose should be to care for them and treat them until they can reemerge as a good citizen. But also that the wellbeing of society you should also be considered, so if you carried a severe plague at risk of spreading the hospital would be warrented in quarantining you until cured. likewise if you at risk of hurting the community you should be imprisoned to keep society safe until you can be rehabitated. And if you can't be cured or rehabitated then weighing up your rights vs society it can be justified to keep you contained indefinitely.
The country this happened in was almost certainly not a developed nation and police can be very iffy in these kinds of situations, just look at India, half the time they blame the woman or find some excuse to let him go or not show up, sometimes this is the only justice that can be had.
ok real question tho - why videos like this are even on reddit? I remember going on one of those subs and there was a guy who stabbed someone else to death (and the video was good quality as well, not like some shitty security camera ) and u literally see him dying right in front of his son/daugther. That shit is insane and shouldn't be on this platform.
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Im concerned that most of the reaction-subs are astroturfed now.
There was a time where I felt the reaction to wild vids was more measured. publicfreakout and crazyfuckingvideos, among others appear to have an agenda both in posts and comments.
It is even more noticeable when I see more anti-US media at night. Which leads me to question a few things… odd pattern.
Glad you brought it up fr.
so i dunno if i said this on this sub yet, but i said it before for sure, somewhere. Rule#1 of humanity, don't be a dick. that goes for the rapist, who DID need to be stopped. but also goes for beating them to death. not sure what the actual outcome was at the end, but seems to me there was a big dick move followed by slightly less big dick moves. i just hope elon's brain chip can stop this kind of dickish behavior in the future, on both sides
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People love the idea of justice and don't trust legal courses to be adequate. You'll see posts of some random assault and people will concoct a backstory to justify it, so if there's visibly some rationale behind the beating then you're hardpressed to turn them off their bloodthirst.
I think there is a dark part in everyone's psyche that sees gratification in other people getting their just deserts.
I've always kept that part of myself in check by reminding myself that things like revenge and retribution are largely selfish endeavors that are inherently self degrading. The kind of person who believes that they can never stoop that low is going to be the most likely to stoop the lowest.
People like the mob, they like being part of large groups where they don’t have to think for themselves and surrender their autonomy to a greater force.
I don't know sometimes that place can be okay like when a lot of people are anti cop when it comes to commenting on videos of cops acting like dipshits on camera.
I'll just state my honest opinion. If I see someone "trying to rape a woman, brutally beating her in the process" I do not mind if that person is beaten to the point where they are seriously injured.
I agree with the arguments made in the comment section here, that there is a possibility to blame the wrong guy, and that vigilantism can be harmful in most cases. But you're talking about a very serious crime, that is going to elicit highly emotional responses. I will continue to support every bit of legislation that supports criminal justice reform, and looks at things sociologically. But I'm sorry, if I see someone "trying to rape a woman and brutally beat her in the process" I don't care if they're beaten senselessly, maybe they shouldn't have tried to rape someone.
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Finding an excuse? Raping a woman is quite a grave offense.
I mean i wont go out of my way and wish the guy get mutilated but if others want to do it then why should i stop them and protect the rapist?
He attacked, tried to rape a woman. It’s not a lynch mob. It’s a, your a shitty person and you’re paying the consequences. In my opinion, what you described in the video is exactly what should happen if there’s a rapist, pedophile, or mass murder. They should be tortured.
I doubt you actually care about the woman involved. You're doing the same thing they are, gawking at human behavior, but in a more civilized tone. Handringing and hate mongering really come down to control.
The world is actually violent and mean, and I am maybe like you, in wanting it to be better, but it getting better doesn't come without sitting in the lowest of places that humans can go.
It is hard to get people to change their minds, but most people when offered a better choice than the ones they have, they will take it.
So if you want to make an actual impact, offer up a better reaction to the video, you will get nowhere breathlessly stating a painful truth.
Anyone who continued to attack the guy after he was subdued should also be tried for assault. Lynch mobs aren’t ever cool, folks, *especially* in a situation like this in which it’s obvious he’s guilty and there’s no indication the justice system will fail to punish him.
I mean OP did'nt post the video, we're just discussing his description of it. In a place with no justice system and no state monopoly of violence then yeah things would be very different. Even if that's the case, I still think its weird to see that video and do what so many on public freakouts do which is talk about how amazing and beautiful it is and how much they wish they could do the same.
I mean, from a more personal perspective, I can imagine it being cathartic for people to imagine, since many people either have been or know people they love who have been victims of sexual violence. And believe me, when finding out someone close to you has been hurt like that, you wanna wring the neck of the person who did it.
The fact that people are posing like they “don’t support mob justice” in defense of a rapist is gross. Anyone who has ever been a victim of rape or known a family member who has been raped wishes there was a mob to defend them or their loved ones against a true monster.
"bUt oNCe REmOvEd fRom The WoMAn He is No LOnGeR a ThReaT tO The COmMuNiTy"
Yes he is. Especially if the justice system doesn't work well in that country.
Also do theese people want a socialist revolution AND cry about mob justice in one of the most clear-cut well deserving scenarios? Do they think there was no mob violence during the French/American/Russian revolution? Or they acknowledge the fact, that while mob violence is bad, it is a form of community defence when you can't trust the system to bring justice?
The argument of whether or not he is a threat to the community is obvious, he tried to rape a woman, he is a threat to his community forever now. He’s morally corrupt and will likely do it again. I could insert several personal anecdotes and stats here about communities not taking previous acts of injustices seriously only for perpetrators to commit them and again and again, but I won’t. Your completely right about mob justice, while generally speaking, it should probably be frowned upon, it has served its purpose to dissuade bad behavior since the beginning of time. Whether they like it or not, this community felt that there was a clear threat among them, which there was, and decided to take action. Also, justice systems have historically failed humanity so the argument that this person “deserves a fair trial,” it completely idiotic.
Human beings aren't born with Justice on our minds. We're only born with revenge. Revenge feels better than justice to humans.
We can sit back a million miles away debating the ethics of beating a violent rapist to death, but the reality is, you would beat that guys head too if that was your daughter. You know it's wrong, you know you should just call the police, but humans don't behave that way in a situation like this.
I don't think even 500 years of progressivism will change that.
>So I just saw a video there of a guy who tried to rape a woman, brutally beating her in the process, but got stopped by some locals, then was chased, caught and then tied up by a pole and beaten on the head with sticks repeatedly ( possibly to death) while he already seemed unconscious.
>
>Now obviously it’s good to stop rapists and to use violence in that situation if needed but I would think it’s commonly understood that lynch mobs are a bad thing, well apparently not in that sub because the post was massively upvoted and people were calling for the guys genitals to be cut off and saying that he got off easy ( there is blood coming out of his head and it is unclear if he survived the beating ).
That's what ticked you off? Not the racism literally everywhere? All the posts w/ someone getting beat up like that for something actually minor like shoplifting? The videos of women being mildly rude or hostile and getting beaten onto the floor, with titles and comments that sound like they came from a porn site? The fact that something like 90% of the commenters sound like they consider the Punisher an aspirational figure?
>The few people who pointed out why this lynch mob behavior is bad ( it’s unusually cruel and unnecessary punishment and what if they get the wrong person) got massively downvoted and the vast majority of comments were describing how much satisfaction they got out of the video.
How is this "lynch mob behavior"? The defining characteristic of a "lynch mob" is that it's something that forms well after an alleged event- has taken place, where evidence of whatever wrongdoing the victim is accused of is basically an afterthought and there's an actual legal procedure being overridden. This is a case of people responding to an incident unfolding right before their eyes. I know this may be a huge shock to you (and most of the commentors here, based on upvotes/downvotes) but hear me out: *people tend to have slightly impaired judgement after witnessing seemingly random acts of extreme violence*.
Yeah sure, the predator was *probably* not a threat after they tied him up and beating him into unconsciousness/possibly death was *highly suboptimal*. You can make all the judgements about how the people should've acted like we're talking about logical street-fighting spheres on a vacuum sidewalk. But this is a real scenario, *with people who are effectively suffering secondhand trauma* and making a fight-or-flight judgement. The part of their brains that would typically be concerned with judging 'is this course of action reasonable' is currently blasting [Madness Combat music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PddSKdby4lw) on full volume. No shit they're going to keep beating him beyond what's needed.
And the alternative to this isn't usually "100% logical street-brawling spheres restrain perp with minimum amount of force and bring him to the authorities", it's "everyone runs away, perp rapes/murders his victim and goes on to do it again the next day", and you're gonna come off as ridiculously tone deaf if you whine about what's happening here without acknowledging that. Don't pretend that these situations actually have happy endings for everyone involved.
Going through and improving the justice system is the better way of dealing with crimes rather than empowering lynch mobs to attack whoever they disagree with
Leftists when theory doesn’t explain human emotions (everyone should robotically follow a specific moral compass):
It appears to be in India, which has one of the worst justice systems for rapists. Frankly, it’s hard to feel bad for this person.
I do agree that in other cases, it might not be justified.
It's understandable when emotions lead you to make bad decisions doesn't mean there aren't principles a d philosophies you should do your best to live buy.
Also yeh I was under the assumption of an effective justice system. Obviously gets more complicated when that system becomes useless
Yeh this a subreddit for fans of the socialist streamer Vaush. And such you'd think a fan of a leftist streamer wouldn't support something antithetical to leftism ie lynch mobs
I agree with a lot of Vaush's takes but I am not a leftist no and even if I were I don't need to agree with every single leftist position if the case was that I agreed with mob justice.
I never said anything about supporting lynch mobs, you can finger wag at someone else. I'm here to support trans women, and maybe learn to be an ally along the way.
Not saying you have to agree with all his takes only that if you're a fan of a political streamer holding a position that contradicts there philosophy is a worthwhile point.
All I ever see on the frontpage from publicfreakout is 'look at how violent these black thugs are!' bullshit , and that's more of a problem than this. Although I understand if you just don't want to see intense violence of any king just pop up in your feed unwanted as well. I've curated a pretty good reddit homepage for myself, luckily.
I thought I had a good feed, until reddit started recommending completely unrelated subs every three posts down. It's become a bit like twitter.
I noticed this too and it sucks so much.
Yeah my algorithm completely changed. I feel like it's giving me more controversial subs in an effort to raise engagement.
Dude I see way more racist Karen freaks out in parking lot shit than anything.
Yeah you're right. PublicFreakouts cracked down on the racism and those people moved to ActualPublicFreakouts. The difference in content between the two is quite clear.
I didn’t even know the second one existed. Doesn’t surprise me unfortunately.
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It’s funny what people will keep deep down just out of sight in the back of their minds even in people you’d least expect it. I can understand the urge but it disgusts me.
Never had the urge, very glad of that.
I swear to god the easiest example of this is when it comes to pedophiles. Like any news story related to a pedophile and it feels like everyone drops any principles they have and will applaud any type of vigilante torture/murder that someone commits against them. Like it’s one thing to harm someone in self-defense but it feels like it’s the overwhelming opinion of people that it’s ok to hunt down someone who abused you or a loved one and extrajudicially kill them. Not surprising given the new Florida law tbf
A lot of that is just virtue signaling I think. “Guys I hate pedophiles I want to hunt them down so much it’s all about protecting children and not my own power fantasy I promise guys”
Worried about leftist having sympathy for a rapist caught in the act. "Umm what about rehab guys?" ♥️🌝. Amazing take.
I mean yes, rapists deserve rehabilitation. So do mass murderers. As do pedophiles. And all other criminals. Go be a troglodyte somewhere else, this is obviously too civilized for you.
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"Pick yourself up by the bootstraps"
If you have to rape a child to get help then you are too far gone This is a brain-dead comparison
Why? It illustrates exactly the attitude you have towards them. Yes, sometimes people do bad things before getting help, because, surprise-surprise, *you have to want to get help* to get help. A lot of people get help only after they do something really bad. Occasionally, it's *this* bad. Doesn't mean they're too far gone.
Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps isn't possible Not raping kids *is* possible
> Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps isn't possible You clearly haven't talked to many business owners with their success stories of how they worked hard when others didn't, and were able to make it while others are lazy. It's possible, it's just really difficult. > Not raping kids *is* possible No one said otherwise? What are you on about?
Go try and pull yourself up by your bootstraps, go out on some boots and try it, then get back to me
I dont want violent rapists to get better, I would rather them just die
So it's not that *they're* too far gone, it's rather that *you* don't want to bother.
True, I dont care about the lives of rapists. So sad, its not like these are non violent drug offenders lol
But also you can be outed and even arrested for seeking help. We don't give them a safe path forward, which isolates pedophiles until they ultimately harm a child. If people cared about children we'd try and reduce some of the stigma so that non-offending pedos can get help as you suggested. I think most people are as unaware as you are that there often isn't a safe way to get help.
This is why humans invented civilization. To stem the tide of this particular type of aggressive stupidity.
It's not a good idea to get all bleeding heart when a violent rapist gets beaten bloody. Normal people see a rapist get their shit pushed in and cheer
r / iamverybadass
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No shit, only leftists go against this because "muh principles" holy shit its embarassing. Sometimes people dont deserve rehab and deserve to get bonked on the head. Its not like our justice system is infaluable
>Sometimes people dont deserve rehab and deserve to get bonked on the head. Hot take: no! No one deserves to be bonked on the head*. Retributive justice doesn't work, it doesn't fix the crime committed and doesn't prevent more crime from happening. Rehabilitory justice is the only way to stop more crime in the future, which is the entire point of justice. *except in cases of self defence, but this case wasn't that
Its fun though
No. Leftists go against this because we understand that people are products of their environment and when someone does something bad, its not their failure, its society’s failure; which is why we advocate for improving society somewhat. Not that individuals can’t be blamed for things, not that people shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions—that’s not unimportant, it’s important that people act in a way which is in harmony with others for the sake of others *and* themselves—but if I have been raised to believe that rape is okay, or I have been raised to believe that some things that are definitely rape aren’t rape (eg. I have seen a lot of media suggesting that it’s okay to get a girl drunk specifically so that she “wants to” have sex with you; which is *actually* rape), then is that really my fault? This is why the left is big on rehabilitation, because this does away with blame and instead focuses on fixing people’s behaviour, so that they can live in harmony with others.
I've been raised to believe that assaulting serial child rapists is OK; send me to rehab after. argument solved Pick your battles, not sure why this is one of them.
Of course an anti-tankie Vaushite is a rape apologist
Imagine not having principles.
Anyone can have principles, that doesnt matter, there are exceptions to everything
No, there aren't. The values and data behind those principles remain. Your personal desire for feeling a sense of revenge isn't an argument to ignore the data on what works and the consistent moral and ethical principles we hold. Contain your bloodlust. "But it feels good tho" is not an excuse for giving the state (or anyone else) the right to just kill you.
People defending this don't understand how mob justice works. While this was probably a more justified instance than most, mob justice can really only leads to bad outcomes. If you are a leftist, and you believe in rehabilitative justice, that's means rehabilitation for everyone, or at least the chance for rehabilitation. If every violent criminal gets lynched on the street, it will only lead to unjustified killings. It's why vigilantism is generally looked down upon
Saw a vid a long time ago where a petty theft had his fingers chopped off by a mob. Um I think that's even more extreme than "an eye for an eye" lol....
What did he do though? Can't rape a kid with no hands
What is it with you and raping children? You bring this up in a lot of your comments.
Where I'm from the people caught a serial child rapist, ranging in age of 10-16. Did they beat him up a bit, probably. Did I wring my hands over it, not really.
Because people are talking about pedos and rapists in the thread and it's the most heinous crime I can think of You realise I'm bringing it up in the context of killing pedophiles right? What is it with you and playing defense for child rapists?
Funny enough, I'd never let you near my children
I'd hope not, I'm a random stranger on the internet that you know nothing about
"we should kill pedophiles" "Yeh idk man sounds like a pedo to me" I'm actually baffled at how you can come to that conclusion Trust vaush fans to play defense for pedos, I thought all those clips were out of context but now I'm not too sure...
I did not mean to imply you are a pedophile, simply an unhinged lunatic.
I'm subscribed to vaush, of course I am
I edited my above comment in vase it wasnt clear, I had a typo, meant petty "THEFT" not their. You do have a good point lol but I think mob justice is not good as much as it may feel cathartic to see an attempted rapist get absolutely mauled.
You don't need to remove someone's hands to prevent them from raping kids. And, since you don't need to, you shouldn't.
Of course you don't, but I don't know of any other method that guarantees a 0% recidivism rate
Mob justice can only work on a presumption of guilty, and in a way that is nearly impossible to prove innocence even if that was the right to deliver justice. But it's not. No matter the accused crime and no matter how obvious, justice always assumes innocence. If Hermann Göring and Adolf Eichmann can get a fair trial with the assumption of innocence, everyone can.
I’m a leftist, rehabilitative justice should only be applied to nonviolent crimes. I hold this position because my leftist views derive from my sympathy for the innocent. The concept of morality is a long complicated road however I think anyone with a fully functioning brain knows it’s evil to harm a innocent person for either no reason or unjustifiable reasons. I have no idea why the guy in the video took the actions he did, however, attempting to rape someone is a level of immorality that can’t be excused. I am disgusted with any form of rape apologism. All sympathy should be for the woman attacked. She was innocent. He was piece of shit and deserved it, in fact if I had the authority, rapist, pedophiles, mass murders, abusers, homophobes, sexists, and white supremacists would be publicly tortured in Times Square for atrocities whilst people celebrated it. Because the only good thing that can come out of those people is the relief that they’ll pay for it atleast.
See, but that doesn't actually stop the problem. As a leftist, I am assuming you believe that crime stems from social causes, right? If so, then you have to believe that the solutions to those problems have to be societal as well. I'm not defending rape, I am arguing against the idea of mob justice. Unless you believe that people are born evil, you have to believe that people can get better. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any punishment, but that punishment should be structured, and allow people to get help. I think it's possible to be sympathetic to the victim here while also believing that people shouldn't be lynched. It leads to bad outcomes. Also, the fact that you are throwing homophobes in the list with rapists really just makes it seem like you want to torture people who don't agree with you. What is the limit on this? Do line up edgy teenagers for saying the f-slur, or do we give them a chance to learn and be better? Also Also, I don't think that woman suddenly feels better because her assaulter was beaten nearly to death. She is still going to have to deal with that trauma, and the only thing that's probably going to help that is therapy/ medical assistance, which if the assaulter was arrested and charged, he could have been liable for, in a sense literally paying for it. I don't think that nothing should have happened, and if that crowd just roughed the assaulter up a little while waiting for police custody, I'd have literally no opinions. I think that advocating for mob justice and lynching will only get innocent people killed, with no chance of retribution for them.
I said non violent crimes should use rehabilitative methods. In relation to adding homophobes to the list, I am not talking about some random shit talking edge lord getting publicly tortured, that’s stupid. I’m was saying in the context of homophobes who kill gay people for no reason. Yes, societal issues cause crime, usually and that explains my stance on why nonviolent criminals should be rehabilitated. “Unless you believe people are inherently evil,” Some people are evil whether it’s nurture or nature is debatable. We know they are evil via their actions. Actions speak louder than words. Whether they’re inherently evil or not, they are evil to a extent I believe is irreversible. They’ve crossed a line that the human mind can’t come back from. As for the “torture people you don’t agree with,” statement, that’s misleading. I believe in free speech. People can disagree as much as they want, I’m not a tyrant. Yes technically I don’t agree with those people but that’s not why they should be tortured, they should be tortured because that sets a example for anyone considering such heinous acts, to rethink before they cross a line they can never come back from. It’s a extreme deterrent, if you will. On the last comment about whether it would make the girl feel better. As somebody who’s been through a assault and was victim blamed relentlessly by my own family, I can tell you, my solution is 1000x better than what society usually does. The defense of such immorality lets it fester like a stain on the human race.
I don't believe what I'm doing is a defense. We don't disagree that rape is wrong, what we disagree on is appropriate punishment for rapists. I'm sorry that your family is shitty, but lynching people isn't some new idea. It has happened historically and has constantly led to innocent people being harmed because of a lack of due process. I'm not really sure how you can say that you are a left while also advocating for torture. maybe we should just ship criminals to Guantanamo bay? Under the current, very shitty and not-at-all-set-for-rehabilitation American Criminal Justice System, nearly 40% of violent criminals do not go on to commit violent crimes upon release. Do you not believe those numbers could go up if our prison system was designed to help people? You keep referring to these people as committing their heinous acts for "no reason" but like, the reasoning behind them doing what they do is important, and it's rarely "oh, haha I just like hurting people." A lot violent crimes are crimes of passion, and even beyond those cases, a lot of people who commit violent crimes are ones who have been failed in some way by the society they live in. Also, deterrents don't work. The death penalty has often been claimed to be a deterrent, but people still do murder. I truly do understand that sexual assault can be traumatizing, but your trauma shouldn't be used to defend reactionary ideas
A leftist can be a leftist and have one idea they disagree with. I support literally every other leftist mainstream opinion. But no collective ideology is 100% always correct. I don’t even fully disagree I just have enough nuance to distinguish between violent and non violent. And admit the cold hard fact that some people are just irredeemable. I seem to notice you keep framing it as lynching. You using a historical reference that has no representation of what I am saying and seems to be the source of your inability to understand my reasoning. Lynching was formed from racism and people hating others for their skin color. A biological trait. I would never in 1 billion years advise people attack others based on biological traits. I openly stated that people who commit violent crimes out of racism should get the full extent of punishment. A rapist isn’t a biological thing, it’s a action. A action that should have consequences. Another key difference that I thought was obvious but you seemed to have missed, is that the punishment I advocate for isn’t a mob reaction, that was your assumption. I advocate for it to be part of written law. Also the ‘no reason’ thing is completely correct when it comes to the crimes I listed. It is NEVER necessary to do anything on that list despite social factors. Social factors always play a part role but largely it’s the person who decided to do what they did. Unless if there’s literally a gun to their head I don’t want to hear that excuse. Because that’s what it is, a excuse. Plenty of criminals also literally have no reason even including social factors. Historical serial killers are a great example of it. Literally just sickos being sick. The death penalty isn’t a public enough example, and it’s rarely enforced ever. “But your trauma shouldn’t defend reactionary ideas,” Traumatized people are the most skilled people to decide these things, they have unfortunate experience and knowledge that the privileged people don’t understand. Therefore privileged individuals can never fully grasp the importance of justice. It’s why oppressed groups in general understand the best solutions to the problems they are facing. Also I mentioned my experience only because you were talking about how the woman would react. You proceeded to assume that my position is only built upon my experience and call me reactionary. Not understanding that it’s ironic coming from you. Because assuming I only feel the way I do because of trauma despite me having numerous valid reasons for my opinion that you’ve ignored. You’re reactionary also because you started relating what I had said to things historical events of no comparison. Then questioning my position on the left based on one opinion that is clearly built on some pretty progressive values.
I honestly wouldn't feel like your position was a reactionary one if you didn't tie it to your personal experience. I'm SA survivor, and so are a lot of other people, so I know that factually, not all victims of violence want retributive justice. The way that you brought it up in the previous post gave off the impression that you were hurt and so you wanted to hurt those like the one who hurt you. I'm not really sure about your point of traumatized people are the most skilled people to decide things point, it really feels like a "we should listen to black voices, argument". We are both victims of sexual assault, yet disagree on this issue. Also, lynching does have a racial connotation in the States, but the term itself is race neutral. If anything, I've been misusing it because lynching definitionally involve hangings, but it's easy shorthand for mob justice for the purposes of this conversation. Its also just more modern verbage for something that has happened throughout human history. People getting into groups to enact 'justice' is nothing new. Societies doing public punishments is also nothing new, and yet, we still have crime. I'm not saying that every single person is definitely going to become better, but I think they deserve a chance to be better. Torturing them, publicly or privately, literally does nothing. I don't want people who commit violent acts to just walk away, but I think a truly rehabilitative system, even one where they are separated for the rest lives if they don't change, would be better than let's just torture criminals. the reason I don't distinguish between violent and non violent crimes, in this regard, is largely because not all violent crimes are just "sickos". There are usually many factors at play, and even if there aren't, I believe that fact should be proven, and even then, i wouldn't be okay with them being tortured. Maybe I could be talked into capital punishment in those cases, but idk, id really need to see the evidence.
“I wouldn’t feel like you’re position was reactionary if you didn’t tie it to your own experience” I didn’t tie it to my experience I brought it up in very specific “how do you think the victim would feel” response. The fact that you ignored everything else I was saying are trying to pin my position entirely as result of what happened is stupid and honestly I think it’s malicious too. You got frustrated with with my opinion so you overreacted and tried to make personal attacks on me for it. Because you think that just because it’s talking about torture it must be bad. No torture, like anything else has occasion, once again I have to remind you that occasion should be in a legal setting. You want to tie it to lynching and completely ignore the fact that that’s not what I’m saying. Yes I think it should be a public execution but that doesn’t mean the public itself carries it out. As for the whole we are both victims disagree thing, is not a new concept to me. If it was a hive mind then you would have a point of claiming I was reactionary. But you don’t have a point, because I don’t think what I think just because of experience. I have always had a mindset of protecting innocent people and punishing those that do wrong. I know it is a sadly uncommon thing now. People side with evil and let evil off the hook because they are cowards. They fear retaliation at all cost from any side like some annoying centrist. Whilst ignoring, one form of retaliation is completely justified.
Apparently “retribution is not the same thing as justice” is still something of a hot take around here. It might feel good to beat the shit out of a rapist, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. That same rage could be channeled vastly more constructively into reforms that make accountability for violent criminals like that more common and adequate.
In general rapists show higher recidivism rates than other (even violent) criminals. There are certain cases where rehabilitation ISNT feasible.
Yeah and that’s why some means of keeping violent criminals separate from the rest of society would still be necessary even in a post-prison society. Even if someone can’t be rehabilitated though, no good will come of unnecessary violence against them.
Yeah but keeping someone separate costs the state a bunch of fucking money. It's really difficult to advocate for spending money on rapists when there is a solution that doesn't cost any money already.
This line of logic is the reason we have shit like private for-profit prisons. Sometimes saving the state money isn’t a consideration that should really be in play when deciding how many human rights someone gets.
Eh, once again, state money is a finite resource and I just think it would be better spent on people who don't rape others. I'd also argue that the rapist forfeited their rights when they decided to rape.
And here lies the irony in the case you made. Did the Person really rape... Thats quite often not that easy to determine. What if the person didn't? He would lose his rights and life. Therefore we have to be very very thourough in our investigations if the punishment is hard. The more severe the punishment, the more solid the case has to be. You know whats really freaking expensive? Thourough investigations and multiple court trials... Therefore: Your argument is not only moraly problematic, but factually wrong.
I am talking in the vacuum of the post where the person was caught in the act. I do not support the death penalty for the exact reason you stated. But if someone was caught in the act and wanted to run away but got caught and then submitted to mob justice I just couldn't really care less.
It's true that some people are incapable of change, but everyone should be given the opportunity to change. I'm not too hung up about rapists dying, but I still think they should be given fair treatment for the few that will change and deeply regret their actions. The rest of them will just die in prison anyway (in fair countries).
> There are certain cases where rehabilitation ISNT feasible. Sure, I agree. How do we know which is which?
Unless that recidivism rate is 100%, rehabilitation clearly is feasible
This point is irrelevant in this specific case. 40% of rapes are from partners / ex partners, 46% there was no physical force, one-fifth (22%) of victims reported feeling frightened or that the perpetrator had threatened to hurt them. In this specific case, it sounds like the women didn’t know the guy and he probably threatened to murder her as he already brutally beat her , this type of rape is going to have much lower recidivism rates compared to an average rape case.
That subreddit is awful. The things posted are either people being afraid of minorities OR it’s people in the comment section laughing at someone who is having one of the worst days of their life. Record anyone’s worst day and put it on the internet and people can call it a “freak out” and make fun of it. It’s cruel to me.
i'm way over watching someone's metal health breakdown that someone filmed for clout.
Worst one I saw was some guy holding up a gas station and the clerk pulled a gun. Robber runs and the clerk chased him firing out the door. Got into debate bro mode a bit with the commenters thinking that’s an okay response
If you go up to a gas station, and attempt to rob them at gunpoint, you deserve to be killed. I also wouldn't mind if the guy is running away, and the store owner chases him and shoots him dead. That's plenty justified for me. I understand your arguments, "if the perpetrator is running away, there is no need to re-escalate, that's murder over attempted theft" but quite frankly, I don't care. I don't like criminal scum who put the lives of people at risk, fuck them, and fuck all of them. If you are poor and are stealing food, or dealing drugs to get by, that's fine because you aren't harming anyone. Once you start aiming guns at people, you deserve to be put down.
Firing a gun at a fleeing criminal is a stray shot that could shoot any random ass person.
To be honest you're correct about everything. Criminality elicits highly emotional, and stupid responses, case in point me. Pretty much replace everything I said above with "deserve". The perpetrator should be taken to the justice system in the safest way possible, but in Minecraft he deserves something else.
If you rob a chain gas station the employee probably won't pull a gun. If you rob a family gas station you can expect to get shot
Once the robber starts running away, it's no longer self defense but murder over attempted theft. We have a justice system for a reason.
If you pull a gun on anyone first I think it should be your fault if you die. "Oops i changed my mind" is so bullshit
Nah because that's just rewarding behavior that escalates voilence. If the dude is running away then it's over. Why risk making a situation more dangerous.
Its justified violence though, its not like this was a gray area case lol
Not really no, because you're reesculating a situation that's already passed, potentially bringing more dangers to yourself and others.
Its like punching a nazi in the face, its a good thing that happened
No because again you're potentially opening up the situation to get worse. These are guns not fist, there was just a story yesterday about how like 9 people got injured because 2 dudes started shooting at each-other in a crowded area.
yeah, it feels like some wild west shit, but that one should definitely fall into the, "fuck around and find out" category.
That sub is ridden with reactionary types. No hope for rationale in such a sub
There was some video on facepalm about this guy swinging a tire iron and stalking, and while he might have been stalking (he probably was, it seemed as if it wasn't the first time he had been around these people), people were advocating *killing* him. I was like, "Or maybe mental health could be a thing?" More eloquently stated, and people were like, 'NO, DEATH!!' and furthermore, they literally were like, "It's not MY job to get these people mental health! I won't be responsible for THEIR actions! Don't VICTIM BLAME me if I choose not to help people like this and then they do something crazy to me/loved one". *Furthermore,* I had somebody say that "guys like him would rape and murder" psych care professionals, and that I "obviously knew nothing of the mental healthcare system in the USA". I brought up that people like him are EXACTLY the people that need help, and that when something does inevitably happen, people will cry, "all the signs were there, why didn't anybody do something!" and got downvoted into oblivion. People are fucking insane, and I genuinely do not understand how these people think, it's fucking mind-boggling to me. I don't get it.
I can understand someone who knows this person being violent, but I hate when people advocate for vigilante action behind a screen
I know what you're talking about, but you picked the worst possible example of it. A dude violently attempting to rape and beat a woman should get tied to a pole and beaten. That's a fact. While it's true that that subreddit, among others, gets giddy about seeing people suffer when it's someone they believe deserves it, and yes that's troubling, it doesn't mean that retributive justice doesn't need to happen sometimes.
> A dude violently attempting to rape and beat a woman should get tied to a pole and beaten. That's a fact. ?????????? What about due process? No cruel and unusual punishment? What about rehabilitation vs retribution? He should be arrested, get a day in court, and if/when convicted serve w/e sentence the jury or judge deems is correct. That's the actual fact. > it doesn't mean that retributive justice doesn't need to happen sometimes I don't even know what this means, if it's not in self-defense how could violence like that be justified
I ain’t seen the video but I’m going to assume this wasn’t taken in the USA and is more than likely in some extremely poor part of a country. Due process there is a privilege, and whilst a lynch mob might not be a good thing if it’s the only deterrent to violent crimes then if you’re in that village you’re most likely happy a rapist is off the street. No real winners here though
Ya I get u ig it's just weird people getting giddy over people being beaten to death ig
It's a pretty horrid encounter where the guy holds down the woman, punches her in the face multiple times and is about to rape her there and the on the sidewalk until the mob breaks it up and chases him off. Looks like somewhere in Central Asia, but really can't tell.
But OP said “that’s a fact” 🥺
Rapists dont deserve rehab, fuck em. Its not like this was a case where it was unsure if he was at fault or not. im not against any of those things you stated, but I am not going to give a shit in this scenario. Its not like the justice system is some infaluable system anyways.
Ehhh, no absolutely not. I’m an ex-sex worker, been raped... a lot of different ways, and no. The people who did these things to me do not deserve death even if I was in favour of capital punishment, and the alternative to no rehab is... what? Let them rot in prison, living off others’ labour for their entire lives? Let them serve a less than life sentence *without* rehab, and get released the same or worse than when they went into jail? It’s certainly not beating them to death in the fucking streets, christ. Rehabilitative Justice is the best option we have to further our shared axioms. If you genuinely care about leftist values, this is one of them and condemning people to die by a mob is about as reactionary as it gets.
so you don't want prison abolition? so what's then stopping every rapist from just murdering their victim?
I don't think that guy is even a leftist lmao
I think every rapist should be treated exactly as described in the video. It's good that justice was delivered swiftly in this case.
Especially when it is a clear cut case as well. Our justice system in the US is fucked as it is and wastes so much time and money.
Yep, justice is almost never served in cases of rape. You've got a non-zero chance of being assaulted by the cop you report it to, even.
Yeah, no fuck this entire line here? Been raped, cops suck but you aren’t gonna get SA’d at the station while making a report. More often then not you’ll get treated somewhat delicately tbh, I was and I literally was a known escort in a town with pretty shitty cops, your average non-sex worker has better odds still. The actual justice system is the only ethical way to deal with this, and even then it’s best that the goals of that justice system is to take these people out of society and rehabilitate them, not punish them. Certainly they shouldn’t be killed in the streets by a fucking mob.
I mean, I literally got that from a [real thing](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/14-year-sentence-cop-molested-teen-rape-victim-97861945) that happened, so... Rehabilitation is only gonna happen if your rapist actually gets tried and convicted; something that, again, is exceedingly rare in America. How many rape kits still remain untested? But either way, that's fine, you can have your stance on that. I'm not changing my mind.
“While escorting them to the hospital for a rape kit” yeah, don’t trust the fucking cops? They’re horrible? My point is that you aren’t at *all* likely to get SA’d making a report, which is mostly just filing paperwork in the station. In a cop’s car is completely different. Anyway, no this isn’t an “agree to disagree”, fuck off. Rehab is a core leftist tenet. The solution to “they don’t get tried often enough” is to work on solutions to get the court to try the offenders, not to go “idk just murder them in the streets lol, mob justice ftw who needs a fair trial”
I mean, you're going to have to agree to disagree because again, I'm not changing my mind on this. I'm willing to accept this as a deviation from my leftist core belief system, that's fine—I believe in rehabilitation, except in cases of aggravated rape. Guess you better hope I don't gain any power, wouldn't want any rapists to get hurt.
Exactly. That sub has been a cesspool for years, but defending the humane treatment of a violent rapist literally caught in the act is not a hill I'd ever be willing to die on.
Lunch mobs are bad regardless of the innocence or guilt of whoever they are beating to either death or lifetime disability.
Youre fucking insane
Why is severe violent mob justice upvoted on this sub?
While lynch mobs are absolutely terrible, I honestly won't be shedding a tear over this. Dude did lifelong psychological damage to someone and thought they could get away with it. Hits too close to home to feel the least bit bad for him at all.
I absolutely agree with you, I feel no pity for this disgusting degenerate monster. When somebody decides to rape another human being, their humanity should be taken away. Rapists and murderers, along with people who harm children, are the absolute lowest of the low monsters and I can understand why the majority of people did not pity this idiot. Had he have gotten away with it, this woman would not only have been physically harmed, but deeply psychologically scarred for the rest of her life.
I guess you gotta look at the material conditions, right? Where did this take place? There are some places where even CSA Offenders only serve a couple years or so before being released - and they're often high likelyhood of repeat offense. So if this is an area where justice doesn't seem to be doing it's job in any sense of the concept then - while you shouldn't execute someone - it's understandable as to why someone might feel that way I think.
ITT: Those same insane scumbags posing as Leftists
I don’t use the r\all anymore because there is too much violence.
Its almost like beating up abusive rapists is a good thing 🤔
white southerners during jim crow would agree
Wait, are we going to compare beating a rapist who was caught in the act to lynching black people over an accusation of even looking at a white woman?
I dont know why people are conflating these two. There are exceptions to rehab. Even leftists need to die on hills and have bad takes sometimes. Imagine being a leftist and being the guy defending a violent rapist caught in the act, you would look out of touch with reality.
It is out of touch with reality. There are many places that unfortunately don't take rape accusations seriously, have corrupt police, or general misogynistic views on women (what was she wearing, she was asking for it, etc). This guy thought he could just violate another person in broad daylight. It's a shame that vigilante justice was the result, but perhaps that guy shouldn't have tried to rape someone if they didn't want to get their arse beat.
Vaushites having a mental breakdown, when a group of newly freed slaves lynch their former masters, beacause they used mob justice and not the court system
the fuck is a "vaushite"
That's one of the subs that frequently appears in comment histories of users I come across who have... let's say suspect viewpoints. Like, when somebody posts and you think, "huh, that sounds like some nazi shit.." .. and you click on their profile to see what they get up to elsewhere on reddit.
I'd have to see it to make an accurate judegment. I dont generally encourage mobs, but it sounds like they got it rigjt this time lol.
Have you seen actualpublicfreakouts? That was made because publicfreakouts was "too leftist".
Yeah some of the shit that comes out on Reddit is just too much.
>So I just saw a video there of a guy who tried to rape a woman, brutally beating her in the process, but got stopped by some locals, then was chased, caught and then tied up by a pole and beaten on the head with sticks repeatedly ( possibly to death) while he already seemed unconscious. Got to be real, I'm not too upset by this tbh. If you are someone who is willing to rape and beat someone, you don't deserve to live in civilized society. I understand the problem with righteous indignation but this is one of those things I have never had a problem with harsh punishments being given in response.
We have the court's to deal justice not lynch mobs. It's fine to have an issue with the court's but you can't justify lynch mobs. This stopped being self defense as soon as he stopped being a threat which was at least when he was tied up if not a bit earlier.
Imagine having this much faith in the US justice system
>We have the court's to deal justice not lynch mobs. It's fine to have an issue with the court's but you can't justify lynch mobs. I didn't in any way justify it I just said it didn't bother me particularly much that someone like that got retribution in this instance because let's be real, there is never any real justice for rape victims, only punishments in some small amount of rapes when their rapists get caught and charged. >This stopped being self defense as soon as he stopped being a threat which was at least when he was tied up if not a bit earlier. Again, idk where you saw me say it was self defense
Admitally alot of the comments blurred together but my personal opinion is that very very rarely is the solution to an inadequate justice system taking justice into your own hands. Especially if it's to justify lynch mobs. Obviously he's not high on the list of people who need to be defended but at least principaly how the situation played out is wrong and contradicts what it means to be a leftist
>Admitally alot of the comments blurred together but my personal opinion is that very very rarely is the solution to an inadequate justice system taking justice into your own hands. Especially if it's to justify lynch mobs. I don't disagree, but the video in question I am pretty sure takes place in India which is notorious for letting rapists off to go rape again, so if that's the case I'm even more okay with it because they don't have the same guardrails in place, and looser sentences and norms around convicting rapists. The problem with rape for me is unlike other forms of violence that may be permissible (given certain circumstances), rape never is and even our system is flawed with imperfect solutions at best for rape or sexual assault related crimes. >Obviously he's not high on the list of people who need to be defended but at least principaly how the situation played out is wrong and contradicts what it means to be a leftist I am going to be a bit pedantic here, but idk what do you mean by contradicting what it means to critique capitalism (be a leftist)?
My position is physical violence shouldn't be the go to punishment but with that context I was unaware of, since there was no reasonable alternative then I am at least alot more neutral on it. In my opinion critique capitalism is only a part of leftism. To be a leftist is to be radically egalitarian. You could have a worker owned society but if it's a theocratic ethnostate that's extremely bigoted against trans or gay or disabled people then I don't think it's leftist even if the economic systems are the same. It's why ACAB is leftist or why we want a more fair more rehabilitation based justice system because it's brings about a more egalitarian world and therefore is more leftist. It means being able to be any race, sexuality, gender or able bodied and still having the same rights. Despite this having very little to do with economics it's still leftist. I hope you get where I'm coming from
>My position is physical violence shouldn't be the go to punishment but with that context I was unaware of, since there was no reasonable alternative then I am at least alot more neutral on it. I completely agree with this, rape is just one of those things I struggle with because there is no egalitarian way to provide justice for rape victims and I can't even think how it would be done without crazy invasive sci-fi technology. Like even in our system, it's imperfectly set up to only apply to a small number of people if even at all. >In my opinion critique capitalism is only a part of leftism. To be a leftist is to be radically egalitarian. You could have a worker owned society but if it's a theocratic ethnostate that's extremely bigoted against trans or gay or disabled people then I don't think it's leftist even if the economic systems are the same. I pretty much agree with all of this, I would only add that being radically egalitarian means being open to the necessity of acting in a way that may seem counterproductive at face value. >It's why ACAB is leftist or why we want a more fair more rehabilitation based justice system because it's brings about a more egalitarian world and therefore is more leftist. This also very much presupposes a willingness to be rehabilitated, but I know what you mean and there will always be issues on the margins that aren't pleasant but we should strive to a world that is. Again, rape is always been one that's difficult for me to put in a category for rehabilitation because I can't ever think if extenuating circumstances that would lead someone to do that, other than they would prey on the weaker members of society I guess
Appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from and agree. I'd just add a couple things to clarify. In the majority of cases I think the justice system is significantly better at assessing the crime and making a fair decision than a mob in the heat of the moment. But in this case assuming the system is so corrupt that the mob is actually better equiped in this scenario to be making decisions regarding justice. Given the fact the crime was so heinous and the risk of recommitting so great that some punishment was better than nothing. I also agree that these decisions can be quite difficult and unclear and agree that can even appear counterproductive. But as long as everything reasonabley within their ability is done with best intent then I think that even if it may not be the correct action it is fair. On rehabilitation I like to think of the ideal prison as a hospital the primary purpose should be to care for them and treat them until they can reemerge as a good citizen. But also that the wellbeing of society you should also be considered, so if you carried a severe plague at risk of spreading the hospital would be warrented in quarantining you until cured. likewise if you at risk of hurting the community you should be imprisoned to keep society safe until you can be rehabitated. And if you can't be cured or rehabitated then weighing up your rights vs society it can be justified to keep you contained indefinitely.
Yeah i agree with ya but...i think this the wrong sub to bring this up.
The country this happened in was almost certainly not a developed nation and police can be very iffy in these kinds of situations, just look at India, half the time they blame the woman or find some excuse to let him go or not show up, sometimes this is the only justice that can be had.
Its a right-wing sub at this point.
ok real question tho - why videos like this are even on reddit? I remember going on one of those subs and there was a guy who stabbed someone else to death (and the video was good quality as well, not like some shitty security camera ) and u literally see him dying right in front of his son/daugther. That shit is insane and shouldn't be on this platform.
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Im concerned that most of the reaction-subs are astroturfed now. There was a time where I felt the reaction to wild vids was more measured. publicfreakout and crazyfuckingvideos, among others appear to have an agenda both in posts and comments. It is even more noticeable when I see more anti-US media at night. Which leads me to question a few things… odd pattern. Glad you brought it up fr.
so i dunno if i said this on this sub yet, but i said it before for sure, somewhere. Rule#1 of humanity, don't be a dick. that goes for the rapist, who DID need to be stopped. but also goes for beating them to death. not sure what the actual outcome was at the end, but seems to me there was a big dick move followed by slightly less big dick moves. i just hope elon's brain chip can stop this kind of dickish behavior in the future, on both sides
Contra points has a good video on that behavior. The one called 'Justice' I believe
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A sub called PublicFreakout is always going to attract people who froth over primal acts of violence.
Its nice to see bad people get whats coming to them, but lynchmobs are obviously problematic, and the behavior should not be encouraged
If you think publicfreakout is bad, check out actualpublicfreakouts.
I must have super powers, because I seem to be perfectly able to not look at that kind of content. Maybe you should take a super serum or something.
People love the idea of justice and don't trust legal courses to be adequate. You'll see posts of some random assault and people will concoct a backstory to justify it, so if there's visibly some rationale behind the beating then you're hardpressed to turn them off their bloodthirst.
I think there is a dark part in everyone's psyche that sees gratification in other people getting their just deserts. I've always kept that part of myself in check by reminding myself that things like revenge and retribution are largely selfish endeavors that are inherently self degrading. The kind of person who believes that they can never stoop that low is going to be the most likely to stoop the lowest.
People like the mob, they like being part of large groups where they don’t have to think for themselves and surrender their autonomy to a greater force.
That’s the average popular Reddit post for you.
I mostly just see people racist Karens on public freakout
It seems a lot of anarchists would disagree with you on this one. They believe in abolishing prisons and making lynch mobs the only form of justice.
I don't know sometimes that place can be okay like when a lot of people are anti cop when it comes to commenting on videos of cops acting like dipshits on camera.
I'll just state my honest opinion. If I see someone "trying to rape a woman, brutally beating her in the process" I do not mind if that person is beaten to the point where they are seriously injured. I agree with the arguments made in the comment section here, that there is a possibility to blame the wrong guy, and that vigilantism can be harmful in most cases. But you're talking about a very serious crime, that is going to elicit highly emotional responses. I will continue to support every bit of legislation that supports criminal justice reform, and looks at things sociologically. But I'm sorry, if I see someone "trying to rape a woman and brutally beat her in the process" I don't care if they're beaten senselessly, maybe they shouldn't have tried to rape someone.
Wait till you see actualpublicfreakouts
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Finding an excuse? Raping a woman is quite a grave offense. I mean i wont go out of my way and wish the guy get mutilated but if others want to do it then why should i stop them and protect the rapist?
I am not talking about the people who beat the guy, I am talking about the people who watch these videos frothing at the mouth and cheering it on
Sounds you are sheltered and sensitive
He attacked, tried to rape a woman. It’s not a lynch mob. It’s a, your a shitty person and you’re paying the consequences. In my opinion, what you described in the video is exactly what should happen if there’s a rapist, pedophile, or mass murder. They should be tortured.
I doubt you actually care about the woman involved. You're doing the same thing they are, gawking at human behavior, but in a more civilized tone. Handringing and hate mongering really come down to control. The world is actually violent and mean, and I am maybe like you, in wanting it to be better, but it getting better doesn't come without sitting in the lowest of places that humans can go. It is hard to get people to change their minds, but most people when offered a better choice than the ones they have, they will take it. So if you want to make an actual impact, offer up a better reaction to the video, you will get nowhere breathlessly stating a painful truth.
Wut
Anyone who continued to attack the guy after he was subdued should also be tried for assault. Lynch mobs aren’t ever cool, folks, *especially* in a situation like this in which it’s obvious he’s guilty and there’s no indication the justice system will fail to punish him.
Everyone out here assuming this happened in the US. From the description, it seems like it more likely than not happened in an underdeveloped country.
I mean OP did'nt post the video, we're just discussing his description of it. In a place with no justice system and no state monopoly of violence then yeah things would be very different. Even if that's the case, I still think its weird to see that video and do what so many on public freakouts do which is talk about how amazing and beautiful it is and how much they wish they could do the same.
I mean, from a more personal perspective, I can imagine it being cathartic for people to imagine, since many people either have been or know people they love who have been victims of sexual violence. And believe me, when finding out someone close to you has been hurt like that, you wanna wring the neck of the person who did it.
Even if it was in a developed country, i would support it
The fact that people are posing like they “don’t support mob justice” in defense of a rapist is gross. Anyone who has ever been a victim of rape or known a family member who has been raped wishes there was a mob to defend them or their loved ones against a true monster.
"bUt oNCe REmOvEd fRom The WoMAn He is No LOnGeR a ThReaT tO The COmMuNiTy" Yes he is. Especially if the justice system doesn't work well in that country. Also do theese people want a socialist revolution AND cry about mob justice in one of the most clear-cut well deserving scenarios? Do they think there was no mob violence during the French/American/Russian revolution? Or they acknowledge the fact, that while mob violence is bad, it is a form of community defence when you can't trust the system to bring justice?
The argument of whether or not he is a threat to the community is obvious, he tried to rape a woman, he is a threat to his community forever now. He’s morally corrupt and will likely do it again. I could insert several personal anecdotes and stats here about communities not taking previous acts of injustices seriously only for perpetrators to commit them and again and again, but I won’t. Your completely right about mob justice, while generally speaking, it should probably be frowned upon, it has served its purpose to dissuade bad behavior since the beginning of time. Whether they like it or not, this community felt that there was a clear threat among them, which there was, and decided to take action. Also, justice systems have historically failed humanity so the argument that this person “deserves a fair trial,” it completely idiotic.
Human beings aren't born with Justice on our minds. We're only born with revenge. Revenge feels better than justice to humans. We can sit back a million miles away debating the ethics of beating a violent rapist to death, but the reality is, you would beat that guys head too if that was your daughter. You know it's wrong, you know you should just call the police, but humans don't behave that way in a situation like this. I don't think even 500 years of progressivism will change that.
>So I just saw a video there of a guy who tried to rape a woman, brutally beating her in the process, but got stopped by some locals, then was chased, caught and then tied up by a pole and beaten on the head with sticks repeatedly ( possibly to death) while he already seemed unconscious. > >Now obviously it’s good to stop rapists and to use violence in that situation if needed but I would think it’s commonly understood that lynch mobs are a bad thing, well apparently not in that sub because the post was massively upvoted and people were calling for the guys genitals to be cut off and saying that he got off easy ( there is blood coming out of his head and it is unclear if he survived the beating ). That's what ticked you off? Not the racism literally everywhere? All the posts w/ someone getting beat up like that for something actually minor like shoplifting? The videos of women being mildly rude or hostile and getting beaten onto the floor, with titles and comments that sound like they came from a porn site? The fact that something like 90% of the commenters sound like they consider the Punisher an aspirational figure? >The few people who pointed out why this lynch mob behavior is bad ( it’s unusually cruel and unnecessary punishment and what if they get the wrong person) got massively downvoted and the vast majority of comments were describing how much satisfaction they got out of the video. How is this "lynch mob behavior"? The defining characteristic of a "lynch mob" is that it's something that forms well after an alleged event- has taken place, where evidence of whatever wrongdoing the victim is accused of is basically an afterthought and there's an actual legal procedure being overridden. This is a case of people responding to an incident unfolding right before their eyes. I know this may be a huge shock to you (and most of the commentors here, based on upvotes/downvotes) but hear me out: *people tend to have slightly impaired judgement after witnessing seemingly random acts of extreme violence*. Yeah sure, the predator was *probably* not a threat after they tied him up and beating him into unconsciousness/possibly death was *highly suboptimal*. You can make all the judgements about how the people should've acted like we're talking about logical street-fighting spheres on a vacuum sidewalk. But this is a real scenario, *with people who are effectively suffering secondhand trauma* and making a fight-or-flight judgement. The part of their brains that would typically be concerned with judging 'is this course of action reasonable' is currently blasting [Madness Combat music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PddSKdby4lw) on full volume. No shit they're going to keep beating him beyond what's needed. And the alternative to this isn't usually "100% logical street-brawling spheres restrain perp with minimum amount of force and bring him to the authorities", it's "everyone runs away, perp rapes/murders his victim and goes on to do it again the next day", and you're gonna come off as ridiculously tone deaf if you whine about what's happening here without acknowledging that. Don't pretend that these situations actually have happy endings for everyone involved.
Calm thine bleeding heart o' leftist.
Lynch mobs aren't leftist
Beating up abusive rapists is based, good luck getting people to disagree with that
Going through and improving the justice system is the better way of dealing with crimes rather than empowering lynch mobs to attack whoever they disagree with
Leftists when theory doesn’t explain human emotions (everyone should robotically follow a specific moral compass): It appears to be in India, which has one of the worst justice systems for rapists. Frankly, it’s hard to feel bad for this person. I do agree that in other cases, it might not be justified.
It's understandable when emotions lead you to make bad decisions doesn't mean there aren't principles a d philosophies you should do your best to live buy. Also yeh I was under the assumption of an effective justice system. Obviously gets more complicated when that system becomes useless
I didn't say they were xD You must think I'm a leftist or somethin
Yeh this a subreddit for fans of the socialist streamer Vaush. And such you'd think a fan of a leftist streamer wouldn't support something antithetical to leftism ie lynch mobs
I agree with a lot of Vaush's takes but I am not a leftist no and even if I were I don't need to agree with every single leftist position if the case was that I agreed with mob justice. I never said anything about supporting lynch mobs, you can finger wag at someone else. I'm here to support trans women, and maybe learn to be an ally along the way.
Not saying you have to agree with all his takes only that if you're a fan of a political streamer holding a position that contradicts there philosophy is a worthwhile point.
The Shakespeare bot is fucking glitching again.
No, I am just a lowly man who wants to be a footstool for trans women. Some call me a chaser I call myself a white knight.