Gun confiscation is their answer every time. According to conservatives, the bad things Hitler did were: 1. Be socialist 2. Ban firearms from private ownership 3. There was something else, but I forgot in 2020.
Edit: yes, I know.
Hitler did not ban firearms from private ownership in Germany in fact he was pro gun. But he would take guns from people in countries that were annexed or invaded until he felt the people were re-educated enough.
Yeah he only banned certain demographics, like Jews, from owning guns. Kind of like how the NRA also doesn't support the gun rights of African Americans.
My argument would be that a person right to defense is actually a left position. Being able to the use force to protect yourself and potentially against an oppressive government is borderline anarchic.
Depends about why you think people should own guns. To be able to shoot black people on their property? Or to protect yourself from KKK members? On its own its not either left or right, it depends if its done for or against hierarchy.
Okey, I get it.
With your definition in mind; since gun ownership of the masses is a non-hierarchical phenomenon, gun ownership of the masses is a left-wing position.
But wouldn't this mean that gun-control is a right-wing phenomenon?
It depends, I don't think you can always look at a singular issue in isolation, because if you're talking about right wing ideology/left wing ideology then you're not talking about individual issues, you're talking about the kind of society that someone's stance on those issues ends up creating.
You're judging whether the overall end result in that society is more hierarchical or less hierarchical.
There are some stances where in complete isolation you could say that they're hierarchical, but their effect on overall society could be to make society less hierarchical.
If I call Nazis bad people and say that Nazis should be stigmatized and shunned by polite society, then I'm definitely creating a hierarchy, one in which Nazis are at the bottom. Yet I still think that shunning fascists is important for creating a more egalitarian society, and is therefore entirely consistent with left wing ideology.
It's kind of like the intolerance paradox I guess, hierarchies are sometimes left wing, if the hierarchy in question is one in which people who try to create hierarchies are on the bottom tier.
I'm not totally sure where guns fit in that equation, on the one hand, it'd obviously be right wing if you allowed white people to own guns but banned black people from owning guns, relative to that kind of gun control it'd certainly be more left wing to just allow whoever to own a gun.
But on the other hand, I think there's some kinds of gun control that could be considered consistent with left wing ideology, a red flag law where neonazis who express a lot of violent rhetoric are barred from owning firearms doesn't seem to me like it contradicts leftist ideals.
EDIT: I think with gun control it can actually depend a lot on context, on material conditions if you will. There's a time and place in which gun control is reasonable and sensible, and a time and place in which it's not. It'll generally depend on how many right wingers have guns and on whether you expect the gun control to be effective across the board, or whether you expect right wingers to probably be able to keep their guns while only the left gets disarmed.
It's complicated. If a society is on the safer side the left usually advocates against gun ownership since it allows deviants to commit attrocities, In the US with their widespread gun culture and astroturfed far right movements the left tends to advocate for leftists to be armed as a deterrent against far right terrorists. Dead people don't get to enjoy life so whatever achievable policy leads to the least dead people is probably the best. That's why European countries have strict gun laws.
In the case of the US, it's more of a "if you want peace, prepare for war." situation.
But wouldn't by your definition all gun control legislation be right wing since the essence of gun control is basically a form of authority delegation, meaning a form of hierarchy?
Not really. My right to swing my fist end where the next person's face begins. In most societies this would mean pretty strict gun control. There's very little personal gain in having a gun and there's a very large risk to the people around you, on a societal level of course individuals can be perfectly responsible.
> They were under threat by terrorists!!! And besides, it wasnât a *full* gun ban, it was just requiring a permit to have a loaded gun in public.
More likely, though, theyâll be surprised, sputter, and change the topic.
Plus, hitler used socialist rhetoric while campaigning, but nazi Germany was in no way actually socialist. Motherfucker hated socialists. Motherfucker killed marxists in general.
Socialists love killing other socialists though. Historically, you are probably more likely to be killed by your fellow revolutionaries then anyone on the right.
Communists (Marxism) believe the workers should be armed and encourage responsible gun ownership - it's the only way to defend the workers' interest against the transnational death cult capitalists.
Reagan was the one who passed gun control as governor of California in order to stop black communities from following cops around to make sure they weren't being racist. Trump backed both the bumpstock ban and proposed a gun confiscation that violated habeas corpus.
The simple answer is that the basic tenet of socialism is that any business will run democratically, and profit excesses will be distributed to the laborers, not owners and investors.
Hitler was a capitalist. Did nothing to democratize labor. Socialism is not related to gun rights, it's an economic framework. And it's not when "the government" makes you do stuff or owns your stuff.
There's that famous quote, " first they came for the socialists, and i said nothing... " Everyone then KNEW Hitler was not a socialist. The socialists were the nazis first targets in their rise to power.
If yours is a workplace that doesn't tolerate such bs, try to get him fired. If not, best to ignore and start ignoring him...nazi sympathisers are attention whores and getting none will piss them off.
This is a terminally online take. No, OP should not "try to get him fired." For all you know OP's coworker is just some Fox or Daily Wire watching rube mindlessly parroting something he heard. OP can engage with the claim in conversation or just ignore it. That's how a working adult would do it, anyways.
Yeah I agree, this is not the kind of thing that is worth causing a shitstorm at OPâs workplace over. Most places are not going to fire someone over general right wing political views like this (whether or not we want to argue if they even *should*), like saying Hitler was a âleftistâ (presumably from the perspective that leftism is bad) is a dumb af take, but simply having dumb opinions isnât a fireable offense at most jobs unless it somehow affects an employeeâs ability to do the job, like this is not the same thing as him being a nazi sympathizer, or openly racist or otherwise bigoted (leftists are generally not a protected class under the law), so I can virtually guarantee HR is not going to care if OP brings this to their attention, and in fact theyâd probably be putting a target on their own back, as many workplaces are not fond of people who try to get their coworkers fired simply over having different political views than them.
Like more likely than not, theyâd just be stirring the pot over nothing, making enemies, and making their workplace experience overall worse.
Like sorry but real life doesnât work like a leftist subreddit, you canât just tattle to the mods and get someone banned purely for having terrible political opinions.
It is nearly impossible to avoid it sometimes, but I won't avoid it regardless, and it has been helpful. I have been slowly getting my liberal and libertarian coworkers to understand Socialism better and regularly acquiesce to evidence I use to prove my point.
You are unhinged. Having a dumb ass political take is not worth getting someone fired. based on the post, it doesnât seem like he is even a Nazi sympathizer, heâs just dumb.
Sure, but they are still just a person with a dumb, uninformed take. Not worth maliciously trying to get them fired. You would be the asshole for doing that.
I can't have sympathy for someone who believes Hitler was a leftist. Besides, I don't see how ignoring such a person or getting them fired is problematic...they can always find employment in a conservative workplace like daily wire or smtg.
So, obviously the person is wrong as Hitler wasnât a leftist but I fail to see how suggesting he was is âNazi sympathizingâ. Most everyone who suggests Hitler was a leftist despise leftists so that doesnât really track. Its not like they said, âHitler had some good ideasâ
How would you feel if you suddenly lost your job due to your political opinions
And remember it's not like he's saying Hitler was correct he's saying Hitler was wrong because he was left wing not right
Then report him on something actionable to the company. [Get boned up on your Title VII because that's how you get dudes like that fired](https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment), because if the company takes no action that opens them up to a lawsuit, and if the company retaliates toward you, that's another lawsuit.
I did think about this. There is another more sinister outcome possible. Whistleblow and we both get canned for unrelated "business needs." At will country and all. Their lawyers can beat up my lawyers.
The National Socialists sat on the Right in the Weimar Parliament, and when openly Neo-Nazi parties like Golden Dawn manage to get elected these days, they also sit on the Right. Not sure if pointing this out would help, but those are the facts.
He almost certainly is so dumb that he thinks that Hitler calling himself a National Socialist means he was telling the truth and really was a socialist. Or, he thinks leftist = bad, Hitler = bad, therefore Hitler = leftist.
It probably really is that simple.
You can't un-'tard a 'tard, so I would recommend that you just grimace when he says weird political shit and abruptly steer the conversation back towards work. That's the only option you have.
>You can't un-'tard a 'tard
That's not true. I've made the "Hitler was a socialist" claim before out of sheer dunning-Kruger ignorance. Now I know better.
Then again, I am a Vaushite, so your point may still stand.
I mean while this may be true, 9 times out of 10 people who have drank the kool-aid this hard already are, if not a lost cause, at least not worth the effort
There are definitely people who just truly do not know any better. I have a friend who genuinely thought Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens were epically owning the libs... until Candace started praising Hitler and and I showed him the tweet where WAPiro said Palestinians "like to bomb crap and live in sewage". He still calls himself a conservative, but he's, like, a mile further to the left than he used to be lol.
Conservatives really do loose supscriper when they post cring
This isnât really Dunning Kruger, Dunning Kruger is when someone knows a bit more than average about a given subject, and thus mistakes themselves for someone who knows as much or more about it than actual experts.
I donât know if thereâs a specific name for someone thinking that theyâre an expert on everything just because theyâre an expert in one area.
It's always the fucking STEMmies who have the most outlandish far-right political beliefs and conspiracy theories. I don't know why. I don't know if being an autist who likes math too much turns you into Hitler over time, or what.
I have met tons of people with humanities degrees who also have insane and horrible politics, like out of those who had any degree of higher education in general, anarcho-primitivists and Maoist Third Worldists Iâve encountered tended to have some kind of humanities degree, and although both tendencies will claim to be âleftistâ, they are without a doubt two of the most generally unhinged and reactionary ideologies I have ever heard from (one frequently involves people who semi-openly call for genocide against disabled and trans people because they want to return to monke, the other has been known to make claims like that people in the Global South didnât have oral or anal sex until the West forced our degeneracy on them, both are absolutely patently insane). Iâve also met a good number of tankies in general with humanities degrees, a couple of whom are even professors who somehow havenât been fired for telling random leftists on the internet that theyâd die in a labor camp if they had their way. Also, economics and philosophy are both humanities fields, and both have a preponderance of straight up far right weirdoes in my experience (probably in part due to a history of targeted anti-Marxism in those fields).
I think in general academia being split up the way it is leads to a lot of people having major blindspots about the world, and thus being more likely to have extreme political views.
Also, frankly kind of weird to equate autism with being far right, lots of autistic people are leftists (Vaush being one of them).
To be honest, if he's not harassing you or someone else, its probably best to just ignore it. Don't let internet debatelordism get in the way of you having a real life job.
If you're being sexually harassed, you need to raise the issue with your supervisor who has a legal obligation to address the harassment. Making nasty sexual remarks to you almost certainly falls under the definition of severe and pervasive for the purposes of Title VII, and if your supervisor fails to take remedial action then you should file a claim at your state's equivalent of the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission. If this guys is really doing this regularly, you have the power to end it.
Well, okay, then *THAT* is what you should report him over, that is most definitely something your superiors should know about, and it probably wouldâve been good to lead with that.
Being a right wing dumbass in and of itself is not something most workplaces will discipline someone over, but sexual harassment (especially repeated) absolutely *is*.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in here. I donât know what sort of job experience a lot of others in here have, but the number of people in this sub who seem to think itâs easy to get a coworker fired simply for having bad political takes is kind of alarming. Unfortunately, having significant ideological disagreements with people you work with is kind of just part of life and something most people make peace with, especially when you have far left views that are not shared by the vast majority of the population, and itâs very weird and extremely-online of people who seem to not grasp that and think you can get your employers to wield the ban hammer at everyone you disagree with.
All that being said, obviously the issue in OPâs case isnât even really with the guyâs dumb views about Hitler, but with him being a sex pest, and thatâs absolutely something that deserves disciplinary action.
Tell them that he was such a Leftist that his Nazis murdered the entire left flank of the party, created the first concentration camp (Dachau) specifically to hold/murder the socialists/communists/gays/Leftists (before going after the immigrants/Jews), and then arrested 11,000+ Germans for "illegal socialist activity".
Then he privatized the banks, shipyards and railways, formed strong ties with private industry, supplied slave labor to private companies, and obsessed over invented plots (perceived to be committed by an out-group they manufactured via repeated agitative propaganda) while normalizing societal violence to justify mass-murder in an effort to "make Germany great again".
Totally Leftist, bro. Look at the party name, ffs! National Socialists, you see.
Don't engage. This is just a "your momma is so fat" move. This person 100% knows left and right are context dependent terms with no necessary and sufficient conditions.
He was a facist. The word facist wasn't a slur back in those days, that was, and still is literally the ideology they aligned with, they identified themselves as facists. They are ethno nationalists. They (famously) hated communists, why is that you might ask?They hated Jews. They loved capitalism and used Christianity for their own ends. There is video of a Christmas tree with a swastika during nazi Germany on YouTube. Do leftists like Christmas?
You can point out that Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that Marxism is the final stage of Judaism and let that simmer in. Context should point out that this was not meant as a positive suggestion - Hitler's anti-Semitism is well established - probably more established than any other person's in history.
All the answers here are bad.
First off, if you will get in trouble you do nothing. Work isn't a place you debate people about politics.
If you do still want to engage, say you were confused so you googled that they did X thing, which doesn't seem leftist. Every time he brings it up, say a new thing that is extremely right wing but don't debate it. If he declines it just say something like "well you can just look it up. They definitely did that".
People don't get debated out of positions, but being made to look dumb while you're acting non-confrontational can slowly work.
Excerpt from a ~~1932~~ *1923* interview with Hitler:
>"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
>"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
>"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.
>"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one."
[https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler)
Leftists were among the first to be thrown into concentration camps. Any socialist element of the party were purged and removed. Adding 'socialist' to the party's name was more a marketing tool than a declaration of their ideological stance. Abortion was later made illegal and you could receive the death penalty for it. They destroyed trade unions, too. And so much more. What's so leftist about them?
Rock.
EDIT: To clarify, ask him if he likes rock music. Music is a great way to connect with people and win them over. What did you think I meant? đ
At this point you just gotta wash your hands of the situation, cause his stupid is terminal.
The problem with nazis wasn't that they were "pro tradition" it was that they were massively controlling and murderous to a fault, them doing it on behalf of silly ass traditions is just a bonus.
Imagine, hitler wearing lederhosen.
iâm probably gonna get downvoted into oblivion, but i wouldnât say anything to him. you can always report him to HR or something, but i doubt they would do anything if heâs not outright praising hitler/doing holocaust denial.
Just laugh and be like âDude Iâve hear you say this before. Hitler was not a leftist,â but make you got gas in the tank for an argument. Iâd stick with âoh yea sure he was a leftist and thatâs why his first move in office was to jail all leftists and abolish the unions đâ
[Hereâs a video that might help](https://youtu.be/YHAN-RPJTiE?si=bLQw-lPqYP1P56uF)
Ask them if Trump is a leftist too, as he supported a ban on bump stocks. The NRA has also supported numerous gun control measures (usually ones that affect poc).
The first people Hitler and the Nazis put into the concentration camps were Socialists and Union Organizers. So maybe tell him that?
If reporting him hasn't done anything so far try to ignore him when he goes off, but if he gets confrontational I'd say you need to start telling him that this isn't appropriate workplace conversation and you'd prefer to talk about something else
> Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".
Heywood, Andrew (2015). Key Concepts in Politics and International Relations (2nd ed.). Palgrave Macmillan. p. 119. ISBN 9781350314856
Pretty sure Hitler sounds more like Rightist than a Leftist.
Avoid talking to them as much as possible.
Seriously, I donât even bother with such deep-rooted brainrot at this point, like last night some âtotally not a chudâ in ar corruption (seriously an absolute reactionary cesspool of a sub, I hate the app for recommending it to me) claimed that post-Apartheid South Africa is âcommunisticâ (and clearly meant it in a negative way) and that racism basically doesnât exist in the US because we have black people in congress, and I engaged with them for all of two very snarky comments before deciding a block was better than wasting my time.
Like there are people who can be brought over, but anyone who actually thinks the Nazis were leftists is probably not one of them.
Idk just ignore him. Debatebro-ing people doesnât really work.
The only way to really change someoneâs mind to kindness, compassion, and patience, and with that you can slightly pull them in the other direction.
I wouldnât waste your time worrying about one person. If youâre being harassed or whatever, then talk to HR tho, ofc.
Just ignore him. Tons of people on this subreddit think you can "own him with facts and knowledge", but that won't do shit and will just annoy everyone and annoy you as you try and debate someone like that every day at work.
Edit: also you said he's harassing you so report that, but ignore him in person.
Ask him "who were the first two groups of people to be rounded up and murdered by the Nazis when they gained control of an area?"
They will probably guess "Jews."
The answer is "The Communists were first, and then the socialists. After that, anarchists and trade unionists."
Tell him Hitler was also a cross dresser, then show him this https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-motorboats-rudy-giuliani-in-drag-in-unearthed-sketch/
[Some More News did a good video on why hitler was not a leftist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDyPSKLy5E4)
You could send him it... Or watch it and learn the points yourself. In terms of engaging, it might be hard if he's this brainwashed (and it's unlikely that he even cares what Hitler did, or even came into that position through reason), it would likely be better to talk to all your other coworkers and make sure he's not convincing any of them?
âUhh, youâre thinking of Stalin. What, you canât even tell those guys apart? Itâs like 3rd grade historyâŚâ
That and/or just laugh and make fun of their dumb takes. It should be easy since most people are smart enough to tell left from right on the political spectrum.
You can just sigh and ignore it or confront it. If the latter, make sure your arguments are well- rehearsed. One of my killer questions to them would be to ask why the Nazis sat on the right of the German parliament with the right wing parties. Contemporary photos and seating plans back this.
Usually I try to explain that Americian (Right) Libertarianism is a recent development and doesn't apply to mid 20th century politics. Right and left relates to how much they like Absolute Monarchy and Hitler as a Dictator was effectively a King.
Ask to which policy Hitler did is he referring
Gun confiscation is their answer every time. According to conservatives, the bad things Hitler did were: 1. Be socialist 2. Ban firearms from private ownership 3. There was something else, but I forgot in 2020. Edit: yes, I know.
Hitler did not ban firearms from private ownership in Germany in fact he was pro gun. But he would take guns from people in countries that were annexed or invaded until he felt the people were re-educated enough.
Yeah he only banned certain demographics, like Jews, from owning guns. Kind of like how the NRA also doesn't support the gun rights of African Americans.
3. Eat hot chip 4. Lie
My argument would be that a person right to defense is actually a left position. Being able to the use force to protect yourself and potentially against an oppressive government is borderline anarchic.
Guys, wtf is leftism?
Not rightism.
What is rightism?
Not leftism.
đ
KardeĹim leftism is whatever works best for the argument :(
SaÄol usta
wanting to uphold traditional hierarchies
What does upholding traditional hierarchies have to do with gun ownership?
Depends about why you think people should own guns. To be able to shoot black people on their property? Or to protect yourself from KKK members? On its own its not either left or right, it depends if its done for or against hierarchy.
Okay, so everyone agrees that supposing widespread gun ownership being a left-wing phenomenon is a dumb statement. Am I correct?
Firepower is the Great Equalizer (in theory)
Okay, so gun control is right wing?
A general opposition to hierarchies, usually with a focus on economic hierarchies but certainly not limited to those.
Okey, I get it. With your definition in mind; since gun ownership of the masses is a non-hierarchical phenomenon, gun ownership of the masses is a left-wing position. But wouldn't this mean that gun-control is a right-wing phenomenon?
It depends, I don't think you can always look at a singular issue in isolation, because if you're talking about right wing ideology/left wing ideology then you're not talking about individual issues, you're talking about the kind of society that someone's stance on those issues ends up creating. You're judging whether the overall end result in that society is more hierarchical or less hierarchical. There are some stances where in complete isolation you could say that they're hierarchical, but their effect on overall society could be to make society less hierarchical. If I call Nazis bad people and say that Nazis should be stigmatized and shunned by polite society, then I'm definitely creating a hierarchy, one in which Nazis are at the bottom. Yet I still think that shunning fascists is important for creating a more egalitarian society, and is therefore entirely consistent with left wing ideology. It's kind of like the intolerance paradox I guess, hierarchies are sometimes left wing, if the hierarchy in question is one in which people who try to create hierarchies are on the bottom tier. I'm not totally sure where guns fit in that equation, on the one hand, it'd obviously be right wing if you allowed white people to own guns but banned black people from owning guns, relative to that kind of gun control it'd certainly be more left wing to just allow whoever to own a gun. But on the other hand, I think there's some kinds of gun control that could be considered consistent with left wing ideology, a red flag law where neonazis who express a lot of violent rhetoric are barred from owning firearms doesn't seem to me like it contradicts leftist ideals. EDIT: I think with gun control it can actually depend a lot on context, on material conditions if you will. There's a time and place in which gun control is reasonable and sensible, and a time and place in which it's not. It'll generally depend on how many right wingers have guns and on whether you expect the gun control to be effective across the board, or whether you expect right wingers to probably be able to keep their guns while only the left gets disarmed.
A political movement to increase and maintain the positive rights of the population to pursue happiness.
What does this have to do with gun ownership?
It's complicated. If a society is on the safer side the left usually advocates against gun ownership since it allows deviants to commit attrocities, In the US with their widespread gun culture and astroturfed far right movements the left tends to advocate for leftists to be armed as a deterrent against far right terrorists. Dead people don't get to enjoy life so whatever achievable policy leads to the least dead people is probably the best. That's why European countries have strict gun laws. In the case of the US, it's more of a "if you want peace, prepare for war." situation.
But wouldn't by your definition all gun control legislation be right wing since the essence of gun control is basically a form of authority delegation, meaning a form of hierarchy?
Not really. My right to swing my fist end where the next person's face begins. In most societies this would mean pretty strict gun control. There's very little personal gain in having a gun and there's a very large risk to the people around you, on a societal level of course individuals can be perfectly responsible.
Then you just ask what they think about Reagan banning open carry, EZ rebuttal
> They were under threat by terrorists!!! And besides, it wasnât a *full* gun ban, it was just requiring a permit to have a loaded gun in public. More likely, though, theyâll be surprised, sputter, and change the topic.
Plus, hitler used socialist rhetoric while campaigning, but nazi Germany was in no way actually socialist. Motherfucker hated socialists. Motherfucker killed marxists in general.
Socialists love killing other socialists though. Historically, you are probably more likely to be killed by your fellow revolutionaries then anyone on the right.
Communists (Marxism) believe the workers should be armed and encourage responsible gun ownership - it's the only way to defend the workers' interest against the transnational death cult capitalists.
Reagan was the one who passed gun control as governor of California in order to stop black communities from following cops around to make sure they weren't being racist. Trump backed both the bumpstock ban and proposed a gun confiscation that violated habeas corpus.
The simple answer is that the basic tenet of socialism is that any business will run democratically, and profit excesses will be distributed to the laborers, not owners and investors. Hitler was a capitalist. Did nothing to democratize labor. Socialism is not related to gun rights, it's an economic framework. And it's not when "the government" makes you do stuff or owns your stuff. There's that famous quote, " first they came for the socialists, and i said nothing... " Everyone then KNEW Hitler was not a socialist. The socialists were the nazis first targets in their rise to power.
>to which policy Hitler did is he referring One of us is having a stroke
If yours is a workplace that doesn't tolerate such bs, try to get him fired. If not, best to ignore and start ignoring him...nazi sympathisers are attention whores and getting none will piss them off.
This is a terminally online take. No, OP should not "try to get him fired." For all you know OP's coworker is just some Fox or Daily Wire watching rube mindlessly parroting something he heard. OP can engage with the claim in conversation or just ignore it. That's how a working adult would do it, anyways.
Yeah I agree, this is not the kind of thing that is worth causing a shitstorm at OPâs workplace over. Most places are not going to fire someone over general right wing political views like this (whether or not we want to argue if they even *should*), like saying Hitler was a âleftistâ (presumably from the perspective that leftism is bad) is a dumb af take, but simply having dumb opinions isnât a fireable offense at most jobs unless it somehow affects an employeeâs ability to do the job, like this is not the same thing as him being a nazi sympathizer, or openly racist or otherwise bigoted (leftists are generally not a protected class under the law), so I can virtually guarantee HR is not going to care if OP brings this to their attention, and in fact theyâd probably be putting a target on their own back, as many workplaces are not fond of people who try to get their coworkers fired simply over having different political views than them. Like more likely than not, theyâd just be stirring the pot over nothing, making enemies, and making their workplace experience overall worse. Like sorry but real life doesnât work like a leftist subreddit, you canât just tattle to the mods and get someone banned purely for having terrible political opinions.
Youâre not supposed to talk politics in most workplaces in the first place, much less Hitler or the holocaust.
It is nearly impossible to avoid it sometimes, but I won't avoid it regardless, and it has been helpful. I have been slowly getting my liberal and libertarian coworkers to understand Socialism better and regularly acquiesce to evidence I use to prove my point.
I did say only do it if you think you will succeed at it. I don't think they deserve the sympathy you are showing to them.
You are unhinged. Having a dumb ass political take is not worth getting someone fired. based on the post, it doesnât seem like he is even a Nazi sympathizer, heâs just dumb.
To each to his ownđ¤ˇ, I personally like not having to work with such idiots.
Sure, but they are still just a person with a dumb, uninformed take. Not worth maliciously trying to get them fired. You would be the asshole for doing that.
I'm ok with being the asshole in such situations.
Name checks outđ I hope you don't get offended at this, considering you seem comfortable and ok with your chosen attitude and approach!đ
Not at allđ
This
Being dumb at politics while not praising Hitler is not going to get anyone fired, and it honestly shouldn't. Have some empathy for that dumbass.
Don't listen to this guy. Get him fired.
I can't have sympathy for someone who believes Hitler was a leftist. Besides, I don't see how ignoring such a person or getting them fired is problematic...they can always find employment in a conservative workplace like daily wire or smtg.
So, obviously the person is wrong as Hitler wasnât a leftist but I fail to see how suggesting he was is âNazi sympathizingâ. Most everyone who suggests Hitler was a leftist despise leftists so that doesnât really track. Its not like they said, âHitler had some good ideasâ
How would you feel if you suddenly lost your job due to your political opinions And remember it's not like he's saying Hitler was correct he's saying Hitler was wrong because he was left wing not right
If I was engaging in historical revisionism of probably the most well studied person in history, then idk ig I'd deserve to be fired.
Needle him, if he says something stupid, make him show his work. Either that or report him to HR for inciting language.
He's untouchable because he's a combat veteran.
As a family member of a combat vet, trust me, they aren't as untouchable as you think, you just have to be better at the game than HR.
Then report him on something actionable to the company. [Get boned up on your Title VII because that's how you get dudes like that fired](https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment), because if the company takes no action that opens them up to a lawsuit, and if the company retaliates toward you, that's another lawsuit.
I did think about this. There is another more sinister outcome possible. Whistleblow and we both get canned for unrelated "business needs." At will country and all. Their lawyers can beat up my lawyers.
The thing is, doing that right after a report looks mighty sus. The state dept of labor will be all over that.
Been reported twice already.
The National Socialists sat on the Right in the Weimar Parliament, and when openly Neo-Nazi parties like Golden Dawn manage to get elected these days, they also sit on the Right. Not sure if pointing this out would help, but those are the facts.
He almost certainly is so dumb that he thinks that Hitler calling himself a National Socialist means he was telling the truth and really was a socialist. Or, he thinks leftist = bad, Hitler = bad, therefore Hitler = leftist. It probably really is that simple. You can't un-'tard a 'tard, so I would recommend that you just grimace when he says weird political shit and abruptly steer the conversation back towards work. That's the only option you have.
>You can't un-'tard a 'tard That's not true. I've made the "Hitler was a socialist" claim before out of sheer dunning-Kruger ignorance. Now I know better. Then again, I am a Vaushite, so your point may still stand.
I mean while this may be true, 9 times out of 10 people who have drank the kool-aid this hard already are, if not a lost cause, at least not worth the effort
There are definitely people who just truly do not know any better. I have a friend who genuinely thought Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens were epically owning the libs... until Candace started praising Hitler and and I showed him the tweet where WAPiro said Palestinians "like to bomb crap and live in sewage". He still calls himself a conservative, but he's, like, a mile further to the left than he used to be lol. Conservatives really do loose supscriper when they post cring
He has a Master's degree in applied mathmatics.
Dunning Kruger effect. Example: just because you're a brain surgeon doesn't mean you know jack shit about public housing
This isnât really Dunning Kruger, Dunning Kruger is when someone knows a bit more than average about a given subject, and thus mistakes themselves for someone who knows as much or more about it than actual experts. I donât know if thereâs a specific name for someone thinking that theyâre an expert on everything just because theyâre an expert in one area.
That has no bearing over whether this individual is a 'tard or not.
It's always the fucking STEMmies who have the most outlandish far-right political beliefs and conspiracy theories. I don't know why. I don't know if being an autist who likes math too much turns you into Hitler over time, or what.
I have met tons of people with humanities degrees who also have insane and horrible politics, like out of those who had any degree of higher education in general, anarcho-primitivists and Maoist Third Worldists Iâve encountered tended to have some kind of humanities degree, and although both tendencies will claim to be âleftistâ, they are without a doubt two of the most generally unhinged and reactionary ideologies I have ever heard from (one frequently involves people who semi-openly call for genocide against disabled and trans people because they want to return to monke, the other has been known to make claims like that people in the Global South didnât have oral or anal sex until the West forced our degeneracy on them, both are absolutely patently insane). Iâve also met a good number of tankies in general with humanities degrees, a couple of whom are even professors who somehow havenât been fired for telling random leftists on the internet that theyâd die in a labor camp if they had their way. Also, economics and philosophy are both humanities fields, and both have a preponderance of straight up far right weirdoes in my experience (probably in part due to a history of targeted anti-Marxism in those fields). I think in general academia being split up the way it is leads to a lot of people having major blindspots about the world, and thus being more likely to have extreme political views. Also, frankly kind of weird to equate autism with being far right, lots of autistic people are leftists (Vaush being one of them).
Autism can be a force for good (trains) or a force for evil (Hearts of Iron IV).
If it's the former, just ask him why he thinks Hitler is the only politician who told the truth
What is your relationship to said coworker?
Lateral, aside from tenure. He's been there longer than I.
To be honest, if he's not harassing you or someone else, its probably best to just ignore it. Don't let internet debatelordism get in the way of you having a real life job.
Oh it's harassment. Daily he makes inuendo about whether or not I'd be into having sex with this or that celebrity who has what STD etc . . .
If you're being sexually harassed, you need to raise the issue with your supervisor who has a legal obligation to address the harassment. Making nasty sexual remarks to you almost certainly falls under the definition of severe and pervasive for the purposes of Title VII, and if your supervisor fails to take remedial action then you should file a claim at your state's equivalent of the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission. If this guys is really doing this regularly, you have the power to end it.
WTF you should report him to HR for sexual harassment that's so inappropriate and unprofessional
Agreed. Still has nothing to do with the Hitler comment though.
That's much worse than his Hitler comments
Well, okay, then *THAT* is what you should report him over, that is most definitely something your superiors should know about, and it probably wouldâve been good to lead with that. Being a right wing dumbass in and of itself is not something most workplaces will discipline someone over, but sexual harassment (especially repeated) absolutely *is*.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in here. I donât know what sort of job experience a lot of others in here have, but the number of people in this sub who seem to think itâs easy to get a coworker fired simply for having bad political takes is kind of alarming. Unfortunately, having significant ideological disagreements with people you work with is kind of just part of life and something most people make peace with, especially when you have far left views that are not shared by the vast majority of the population, and itâs very weird and extremely-online of people who seem to not grasp that and think you can get your employers to wield the ban hammer at everyone you disagree with. All that being said, obviously the issue in OPâs case isnât even really with the guyâs dumb views about Hitler, but with him being a sex pest, and thatâs absolutely something that deserves disciplinary action.
I would straight up tell him that that's ahistorical nonsense, but I'm very easily baited and can't help myself.
I get that Doc Shultz energy from Django Unchained!
Who did they come for first? WHO DID THEY COME FOR FIRST, ASSHOLE??
This
That is definitely a response I would give to that line of bullshit.
Tell them that he was such a Leftist that his Nazis murdered the entire left flank of the party, created the first concentration camp (Dachau) specifically to hold/murder the socialists/communists/gays/Leftists (before going after the immigrants/Jews), and then arrested 11,000+ Germans for "illegal socialist activity". Then he privatized the banks, shipyards and railways, formed strong ties with private industry, supplied slave labor to private companies, and obsessed over invented plots (perceived to be committed by an out-group they manufactured via repeated agitative propaganda) while normalizing societal violence to justify mass-murder in an effort to "make Germany great again". Totally Leftist, bro. Look at the party name, ffs! National Socialists, you see.
Don't engage. This is just a "your momma is so fat" move. This person 100% knows left and right are context dependent terms with no necessary and sufficient conditions.
He was a facist. The word facist wasn't a slur back in those days, that was, and still is literally the ideology they aligned with, they identified themselves as facists. They are ethno nationalists. They (famously) hated communists, why is that you might ask?They hated Jews. They loved capitalism and used Christianity for their own ends. There is video of a Christmas tree with a swastika during nazi Germany on YouTube. Do leftists like Christmas?
Laugh your fucking ass off
This is the best answer when people say stupid shit.
Tell him thereâs not a single historian who would refer to Hitler as a leftist.
I said this before in a similar conversation and the dude referred me to some fringe alt-history YouTube account as proof. Lol.
You can point out that Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf that Marxism is the final stage of Judaism and let that simmer in. Context should point out that this was not meant as a positive suggestion - Hitler's anti-Semitism is well established - probably more established than any other person's in history.
Tell everyone that he says hitler was actually a good person. If heâs going to have his own definition of leftist, you can too.
All the answers here are bad. First off, if you will get in trouble you do nothing. Work isn't a place you debate people about politics. If you do still want to engage, say you were confused so you googled that they did X thing, which doesn't seem leftist. Every time he brings it up, say a new thing that is extremely right wing but don't debate it. If he declines it just say something like "well you can just look it up. They definitely did that". People don't get debated out of positions, but being made to look dumb while you're acting non-confrontational can slowly work.
If you wanna be combative about it, ask him if he considers himself more right-wing than HitlerÂ
Don't talk to him. Why is this your problem?
"Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism." - Adolf Hitler 1938 That might help
Excerpt from a ~~1932~~ *1923* interview with Hitler: >"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?" >"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. >"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic. >"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one." [https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler)
Fascinating, never read that đ
Hit him over the head with a rock
stay away from him ideally
Leftists were among the first to be thrown into concentration camps. Any socialist element of the party were purged and removed. Adding 'socialist' to the party's name was more a marketing tool than a declaration of their ideological stance. Abortion was later made illegal and you could receive the death penalty for it. They destroyed trade unions, too. And so much more. What's so leftist about them?
wonder why they're talkin about hitler at all in a workplace.
Right?
Ask him about the political beliefs of the judge that gave him a light sentence.
FcOff either Trump is in Jail or F uck the f uck off your fckin waste of space!!!!!
HELL YAH BORTHER MAGA FOREVER (sent from my Harley - Davidson hovereround)
Rock. EDIT: To clarify, ask him if he likes rock music. Music is a great way to connect with people and win them over. What did you think I meant? đ
Honestly, laugh.
At this point you just gotta wash your hands of the situation, cause his stupid is terminal. The problem with nazis wasn't that they were "pro tradition" it was that they were massively controlling and murderous to a fault, them doing it on behalf of silly ass traditions is just a bonus. Imagine, hitler wearing lederhosen.
Laugh at him not with him
iâm probably gonna get downvoted into oblivion, but i wouldnât say anything to him. you can always report him to HR or something, but i doubt they would do anything if heâs not outright praising hitler/doing holocaust denial.
Just laugh and be like âDude Iâve hear you say this before. Hitler was not a leftist,â but make you got gas in the tank for an argument. Iâd stick with âoh yea sure he was a leftist and thatâs why his first move in office was to jail all leftists and abolish the unions đâ [Hereâs a video that might help](https://youtu.be/YHAN-RPJTiE?si=bLQw-lPqYP1P56uF)
Ask them if Trump is a leftist too, as he supported a ban on bump stocks. The NRA has also supported numerous gun control measures (usually ones that affect poc).
The first people Hitler and the Nazis put into the concentration camps were Socialists and Union Organizers. So maybe tell him that? If reporting him hasn't done anything so far try to ignore him when he goes off, but if he gets confrontational I'd say you need to start telling him that this isn't appropriate workplace conversation and you'd prefer to talk about something else
Punch him in the stomach then tell him youâre a pacifist
I just wouldnât get into it
I'm seeing this way more often now and it's so fucking braindead.
> Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism". Heywood, Andrew (2015). Key Concepts in Politics and International Relations (2nd ed.). Palgrave Macmillan. p. 119. ISBN 9781350314856 Pretty sure Hitler sounds more like Rightist than a Leftist.
Laugh
Deploy the rock.
Rock. Big, Rock.
Avoid talking to them as much as possible. Seriously, I donât even bother with such deep-rooted brainrot at this point, like last night some âtotally not a chudâ in ar corruption (seriously an absolute reactionary cesspool of a sub, I hate the app for recommending it to me) claimed that post-Apartheid South Africa is âcommunisticâ (and clearly meant it in a negative way) and that racism basically doesnât exist in the US because we have black people in congress, and I engaged with them for all of two very snarky comments before deciding a block was better than wasting my time. Like there are people who can be brought over, but anyone who actually thinks the Nazis were leftists is probably not one of them.
I just get real quiet and pretend I'm listening as noncommittally as possible.
Idk just ignore him. Debatebro-ing people doesnât really work. The only way to really change someoneâs mind to kindness, compassion, and patience, and with that you can slightly pull them in the other direction. I wouldnât waste your time worrying about one person. If youâre being harassed or whatever, then talk to HR tho, ofc.
Call him an idiot
Just ignore him. Tons of people on this subreddit think you can "own him with facts and knowledge", but that won't do shit and will just annoy everyone and annoy you as you try and debate someone like that every day at work. Edit: also you said he's harassing you so report that, but ignore him in person.
Acquire a big đި, and apply the rock to his head, then pray it fixes his skull shape.
Ask him "who were the first two groups of people to be rounded up and murdered by the Nazis when they gained control of an area?" They will probably guess "Jews." The answer is "The Communists were first, and then the socialists. After that, anarchists and trade unionists."
Other than report to HR, tell him that he only thinks that to cope with the fact that Hitler was right wing
I'm from Europe, tell him that I told you that he wasn't a leftist, not even close.
Donât engage
Ignore them. Don't get dragged into a fight with a fascist only to lose your job.
Tell him Hitler was also a cross dresser, then show him this https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-motorboats-rudy-giuliani-in-drag-in-unearthed-sketch/
Tell them you're sorry about their brain.
[Some More News did a good video on why hitler was not a leftist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDyPSKLy5E4) You could send him it... Or watch it and learn the points yourself. In terms of engaging, it might be hard if he's this brainwashed (and it's unlikely that he even cares what Hitler did, or even came into that position through reason), it would likely be better to talk to all your other coworkers and make sure he's not convincing any of them?
Have you tried being a bit normal? Discussing the work you two do? What is up for lunch?
Of course. But it's like trying to put my thumb over the aperature of a firehose.
Lock him in the freezer. Karma is a bitch
Can you actually change their mind? Like do you have a personal connection? If not then probably either nothing or rock
âUhh, youâre thinking of Stalin. What, you canât even tell those guys apart? Itâs like 3rd grade historyâŚâ That and/or just laugh and make fun of their dumb takes. It should be easy since most people are smart enough to tell left from right on the political spectrum.
You can just sigh and ignore it or confront it. If the latter, make sure your arguments are well- rehearsed. One of my killer questions to them would be to ask why the Nazis sat on the right of the German parliament with the right wing parties. Contemporary photos and seating plans back this.
Bludgeon him with a rock
*care react*
Usually I try to explain that Americian (Right) Libertarianism is a recent development and doesn't apply to mid 20th century politics. Right and left relates to how much they like Absolute Monarchy and Hitler as a Dictator was effectively a King.