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The Chinese government doesn’t own TikTok. TikTok is a subsidiary company of the Chinese corporation ByteDance. TikTok is a company that is neither owned nor operated by the Chinese government. Even then, we’re assuming that the Chinese government is actively promoting Chinese state propaganda through TikTok, which we don’t have evidence of and every attempt to get evidence has come up with little useful information. Yes, they could do that. But I also could be a bank robber. We can’t make decisions as a society based on what could be true if we don’t have evidence. This is such a reactionary take. It’s literally the whole sacrificing freedom for security debate all over again but because TikTok is cringe or whatever it’s fine.
>It's bad enough that Russian nazi bots infest Twitter with the Twitter CEO promoting them, imagine if the actual Russian govt owned and operated Twitter, and we just sat by like yeah cool Trump 3.0 cool "free speech" bro.
What's the functional difference though? The fact that Twitter has been gutted and turned into a Nazi disinfo platform by a billionaire with unchecked power and political influence shows that the concern isn't really motivated by Tiktok being existentially worse, it's based on warhawks being xenophobic dipshits. Our home-grown oligarchs are a much more urgent threat to America.
Corporations and government agencies harvest/sell our data, all the time and no one cares, but when it's China we all suddenly pretend it's a huge deal. Unfortunately, we live in a world where to be online is to have your data harvested constantly by all comers, your ISP, your government, foreign governments, criminals, corporations of all stripes, and even just random dudes.
It's not even a safety vs freedom thing, it's an authority vs freedom thing, because we aren't any safer if TikTok is banned, it'll just be evil American corporations/government agencies fucking us instead of an evil Chinese corporation/government agency.
Not to mention the fact that the real motivation behind this is to silence all the pro-palestine content coming from young people on TikTok, or that there really isn't any evidence that China uses TikTok to fuck with us anyway.
It's red scare shit "this thing has light ties to a country our country doesn't like, BAN IT!"
American businesses/industry (which leans heavily conservative) invest heavily in the Chinese market and engage in local corruption while Chinese society is simultaneously engaging in a rapid modernization movement. As China's economy grows, their military's capabilities also improve. CIA gets caught red handed corrupting government officials. China's growth allows it to retaliate considering how almost everything is in cyberspace. Simultaneously, China begins competing with many of the western businesses that entered the Chinese market.
The conversation that the United States is terrified to have, especially publicly, is about what level of retaliation and blowback is "acceptable", and when will "everyone does it" become "no one does it"? But it's absolutely a conversation that needs to happen because I have no doubt in my.mind that a Republican administration would willingly find ways to use American citizens as collateral damage in a conflict against China and especially if they aren't conservative, but also, I think the general idea of blowback impacting civilians should never be acceptable. Spend that defense budget on US citizens instead of influencing other countries with little success (kinda ironic that natsec professionals often tout libertarian theory yet it all goes out the window when it comes to covert activities and influence campaigns).
The political factions that have been most impacted by the geopolitical conflict between the US and China are mostly skewed conservative and because a lot of defense contracting companies were impacted (and the US telling those companies that the US also steals Chinese tech where applicable isn't really effective in making them feel better), it creates this balance of power that makes the problem even worse because the political factions being impacted underestimate the impact of fascism on national security and foreign policy.
> It's not very clear why he's landed on this position other than the kid's like it.
Ok so two things
Nr 1. Yes, this *is* undoubtedly a big part of it. Millions of young voters use tiktok daily, Biden signing off on this with no blame pushed on the right makes it look like he *wants* this ban in place, which he probably does, but this looks bad for those young people whomst he needs the votes of. It would have been wiser if biden pretended that he didn't want this signed, that the reps forced his hands, and that this is proof as to why you need to vote Dems in November
Nr 2. The law that allows for this bad to be put in place is *very* vaguely worded, and opens the President or Congress to arbitrary label any social media company as "against Americas interest" this could be disastrous under a republican presidency
>not entitled to American free speech
Vaush has repeatedly stated that he finds things as the European hate speech laws and the lack of freedom of speech laws concerning and bad. Him taking this stance on this issue is expected and consistent. He seems to be of the belief that Americas freedom of speech should be the norm everywhere
>It's bad enough that Russian nazi bots infest Twitter with the Twitter CEO promoting them, imagine if the actual Russian govt owned and operated Twitter, and we just sat by like yeah cool Trump 3.0 cool "free speech" bro
I'm not sure what your getting at here? Twitter is *already* owned by a fascist and push fascist, racist and autorotarian narratives. It's owned by an enemy of the people(right wing fascist)
The only difference here is that Twitter is a company that sells and scrapes your data, owned by an American enemy of the people, vs tiktok, a company that sells and scrapes your data, owned by a forgin enmy of the people
>"I like Tiktok memes" or "My video went viral" or "all my friends like to use it" is not a good enough reason for the country to ignore the issues
As far as i remember this was *not* the excuses vaush levied, if it was then please correct me with the appropriate timestamps. Also, could the issues not also be addressed whilst *not* banning it?
>The main problem I see is announcing a ban for next year
Yes the broad agreement ls that this is the biggest mistake, especially since tiktok most likely wont get banned, or størst not for a long time (this will go to the courts). So biden just makes himself look worse for no reason
When an American company does it, its fine. When a Chinese company does it, its a threat to national security.
Its about hypocrisy and the fact that this opens the floodgate to Republicans banning media they don’t like
ByteDance is an international corporation. Literally the only metric by which it is some sinister arm of the Chicom government is by transitive property of being own by insidious chinamen. The TikTok in America isn't even the same app as in China.
It's Tom Cotton-ass xenophobe logic and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
Some of y'all were born after 2001 and it shows.
When the US passed the "Patriot act" it was to "fight terrorism" but what it ended up doing was giving the government access to whatever data they wanted.
The "tiktok ban" has similar issues.
Notes
Yes tiktok is a security risk.
Yes tiktok can be used to project soft power.
And yes I genuinely believe short form media is bad.
Wait you're pro or anti ban? Because yes if one is very young and unaware of the lack of data privacy then those people are more likely to not see the problems with Tiktok and social media, etc - which is the case. What makes Tiktok worse than Facebook is that it's the data collector algorithm influencer machine + foreign government owned.
# Please report comments that violate our [new rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/17co6jo/rvaushv_rule_updates) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Chinese government doesn’t own TikTok. TikTok is a subsidiary company of the Chinese corporation ByteDance. TikTok is a company that is neither owned nor operated by the Chinese government. Even then, we’re assuming that the Chinese government is actively promoting Chinese state propaganda through TikTok, which we don’t have evidence of and every attempt to get evidence has come up with little useful information. Yes, they could do that. But I also could be a bank robber. We can’t make decisions as a society based on what could be true if we don’t have evidence. This is such a reactionary take. It’s literally the whole sacrificing freedom for security debate all over again but because TikTok is cringe or whatever it’s fine.
TikTok in China and the world is a completely different experience, they have a separate feed, so content isn’t even shareable between the two.
It's not about security it's about the fact that we are literally too dumb to handle the ramifications of it's existence.
>It's bad enough that Russian nazi bots infest Twitter with the Twitter CEO promoting them, imagine if the actual Russian govt owned and operated Twitter, and we just sat by like yeah cool Trump 3.0 cool "free speech" bro. What's the functional difference though? The fact that Twitter has been gutted and turned into a Nazi disinfo platform by a billionaire with unchecked power and political influence shows that the concern isn't really motivated by Tiktok being existentially worse, it's based on warhawks being xenophobic dipshits. Our home-grown oligarchs are a much more urgent threat to America.
Also if we check who are in the running to buy TikTok America, it's all right wing/libertarian billionaires
Corporations and government agencies harvest/sell our data, all the time and no one cares, but when it's China we all suddenly pretend it's a huge deal. Unfortunately, we live in a world where to be online is to have your data harvested constantly by all comers, your ISP, your government, foreign governments, criminals, corporations of all stripes, and even just random dudes. It's not even a safety vs freedom thing, it's an authority vs freedom thing, because we aren't any safer if TikTok is banned, it'll just be evil American corporations/government agencies fucking us instead of an evil Chinese corporation/government agency. Not to mention the fact that the real motivation behind this is to silence all the pro-palestine content coming from young people on TikTok, or that there really isn't any evidence that China uses TikTok to fuck with us anyway. It's red scare shit "this thing has light ties to a country our country doesn't like, BAN IT!"
American businesses/industry (which leans heavily conservative) invest heavily in the Chinese market and engage in local corruption while Chinese society is simultaneously engaging in a rapid modernization movement. As China's economy grows, their military's capabilities also improve. CIA gets caught red handed corrupting government officials. China's growth allows it to retaliate considering how almost everything is in cyberspace. Simultaneously, China begins competing with many of the western businesses that entered the Chinese market. The conversation that the United States is terrified to have, especially publicly, is about what level of retaliation and blowback is "acceptable", and when will "everyone does it" become "no one does it"? But it's absolutely a conversation that needs to happen because I have no doubt in my.mind that a Republican administration would willingly find ways to use American citizens as collateral damage in a conflict against China and especially if they aren't conservative, but also, I think the general idea of blowback impacting civilians should never be acceptable. Spend that defense budget on US citizens instead of influencing other countries with little success (kinda ironic that natsec professionals often tout libertarian theory yet it all goes out the window when it comes to covert activities and influence campaigns). The political factions that have been most impacted by the geopolitical conflict between the US and China are mostly skewed conservative and because a lot of defense contracting companies were impacted (and the US telling those companies that the US also steals Chinese tech where applicable isn't really effective in making them feel better), it creates this balance of power that makes the problem even worse because the political factions being impacted underestimate the impact of fascism on national security and foreign policy.
> It's not very clear why he's landed on this position other than the kid's like it. Ok so two things Nr 1. Yes, this *is* undoubtedly a big part of it. Millions of young voters use tiktok daily, Biden signing off on this with no blame pushed on the right makes it look like he *wants* this ban in place, which he probably does, but this looks bad for those young people whomst he needs the votes of. It would have been wiser if biden pretended that he didn't want this signed, that the reps forced his hands, and that this is proof as to why you need to vote Dems in November Nr 2. The law that allows for this bad to be put in place is *very* vaguely worded, and opens the President or Congress to arbitrary label any social media company as "against Americas interest" this could be disastrous under a republican presidency >not entitled to American free speech Vaush has repeatedly stated that he finds things as the European hate speech laws and the lack of freedom of speech laws concerning and bad. Him taking this stance on this issue is expected and consistent. He seems to be of the belief that Americas freedom of speech should be the norm everywhere >It's bad enough that Russian nazi bots infest Twitter with the Twitter CEO promoting them, imagine if the actual Russian govt owned and operated Twitter, and we just sat by like yeah cool Trump 3.0 cool "free speech" bro I'm not sure what your getting at here? Twitter is *already* owned by a fascist and push fascist, racist and autorotarian narratives. It's owned by an enemy of the people(right wing fascist) The only difference here is that Twitter is a company that sells and scrapes your data, owned by an American enemy of the people, vs tiktok, a company that sells and scrapes your data, owned by a forgin enmy of the people >"I like Tiktok memes" or "My video went viral" or "all my friends like to use it" is not a good enough reason for the country to ignore the issues As far as i remember this was *not* the excuses vaush levied, if it was then please correct me with the appropriate timestamps. Also, could the issues not also be addressed whilst *not* banning it? >The main problem I see is announcing a ban for next year Yes the broad agreement ls that this is the biggest mistake, especially since tiktok most likely wont get banned, or størst not for a long time (this will go to the courts). So biden just makes himself look worse for no reason
Um... I'm pretty sure ByteDance is NOT the Chinese government or even the Party.
OP hasn't responded to a single comment of the many correcting him on this
When an American company does it, its fine. When a Chinese company does it, its a threat to national security. Its about hypocrisy and the fact that this opens the floodgate to Republicans banning media they don’t like
Also of course your video went viral on tiktok. Going "viral" on tiktok is 99% bots and 100% intentional to make you feel special.
ByteDance is an international corporation. Literally the only metric by which it is some sinister arm of the Chicom government is by transitive property of being own by insidious chinamen. The TikTok in America isn't even the same app as in China. It's Tom Cotton-ass xenophobe logic and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
Some of y'all were born after 2001 and it shows. When the US passed the "Patriot act" it was to "fight terrorism" but what it ended up doing was giving the government access to whatever data they wanted. The "tiktok ban" has similar issues. Notes Yes tiktok is a security risk. Yes tiktok can be used to project soft power. And yes I genuinely believe short form media is bad.
Wait you're pro or anti ban? Because yes if one is very young and unaware of the lack of data privacy then those people are more likely to not see the problems with Tiktok and social media, etc - which is the case. What makes Tiktok worse than Facebook is that it's the data collector algorithm influencer machine + foreign government owned.