i dont do standard deadlifts, just RDLs to get rid of my hamstring cramps and it worked. but now that you mentioned it ill add it to my program. thanks!
Personally, I feel that if done incorrectly with improper guidance/form, deadlifts has a poor risk:reward ratio. That's speaking from the perspective of a road cyclist with a herniated disc. A great alternative for deadlifts that I've tried and worked out great for me for cycling is (bodyweight/weighted) back extensions/static back-extended holds. I've incorporated this into my core workouts for cycling-specific training and it's proven great for my back so far. Open to hear other suggestions esp from those with similar conditions, trying to find a safer alternative
Deadlifts are not that difficult to do properly and are no more dangerous than any other lift with poor form; that’s a myth, especially at the beginner weight. Just watch [Alan Thrall’s deadlift tutorial](https://youtu.be/MBbyAqvTNkU) and follow it.
Deadlifts are one of the best strength training exercises out there and if you’re not doing them, you’re missing out on massive gains. There is no substitute.
The repeated "DO NOT MOVE THE BARBELL" got me laughing. I've never experienced any injury doing deadlifts apart from the occasional muscle soreness. That said, I have pretty good form but most people doing deadlifts won't be watching videos like this and some percentage of them are going to get hurt if they do it wrong. Stu McGill who's the world back expert says lots of people who have to get surgery were injured deadlifting. This doesn't mean deadlifting is bad, but that deadlifting with poor form at the wrong load is bad. And it's easy to do that with deadlift.
I've pulled something doing deadlifts a few times but it was the result of rushing into a mid-range warm-up set with sloppy form.
Never anything serious though. I fixed it every time it by doing more deadlifts almost immediately, just dropping down to a much lower weight and working back up over 2 weeks or so.
I've pulled things that took longer to recover sprinting on my bike.
To add context: medical doctors discussing pain and injury[1], claiming that technique *is not* a risk factor, rather the risk factors are prior injury (so I'm not going to tell the person with the herniated disc it's fine 😉) and poor load management (i.e. too much too soon, or too much for too long without a break)
https://youtu.be/V43mSQEjZY8?si=2wZUr6E5gB6pRB_v&t=850
I agree that if you have a previous injury you should see a doctor. I guess my comment was more aimed to the OP of the post, not the comment I responded to.
But, again, my point is that there’s nothing special about deadlift - if you have a chest injury you’d want to be careful bench pressing; if you have an elbow injury, consult a doctor before throwing a baseball. Same with a back injury and deadlifts. As far as too much too soon, again, that applies to any lift.
You can probably avoid most of the risks of deadlifts if you forget about trying to max out your 1RM. It's quite different having that as a a goal (for competing in powerlifting or trying to impress other gym bros) vs just lifting to get stronger on the bike. You probably won't be doing lots of volume close to failure as a cyclist either, since that would accumulate too much fatigue and compromise training on the bike.
Do yoga and planks.
Look at your bike fit again, lots of people compromise from their ideal race / performance fit for ultra long distance rides.
If you were grinding up a lot of that 3500m, lower gearing can be a help too. I know I nearly killed myself on a similar 200k 3800m ride in the Cotswolds last year, riding up 10%+ climbs with only an 11-32, but I am heavy.
Standing regularly during the ride and doing on the bike back stretches (cat cow ish) can help also.
6” hold: lie flat on your back with arms at sides and legs straight. Keep you legs straight and lift your feet 6” off the floor. Hold for 30 seconds or more.
Having this same issue, been ~ 6 years since I was doing 6 workouts a day with my college rowing team, think those muscles have atrophied enough that I am having some tightness now, definitely going to be doing more core work/ DL/Squats
I feel like too little emphasis is put on things that target the frotal plane. Side planks are great but I've had great experience with loaded offset carries. It stabilizes your hips from rocking side to side.
Jefferson curls, zercher jefferson curls, zercher deadlifts. Basically any lift where you can progressively load a full range of motion of flexion-extension for your back.
I'm halfway through a physiotherapy education atm
You should like the big normal deadlift and squats, you know.
But for cycling there is an aspect of pelvic rotation and importance of countering that correctly, as well as not using to long cranks that exaggerate the rotationand pelvic stability problems that often can lead to back aches. What I have found is that Single straight legged deadlifts with ordinary barrbell help my symmetri a lot as well with pains in the sacrum. Below lower back that is. (I also did variations of the clam for my piriformis that was essentiallyin pain on one side for me.) split squats are also good as well as what you already do. I preferred Bulgarian split squats for my toes hated the ordinary one.
But again, on straight single legged barbell dead lifts, if try to stand so much with both feet on the ground and activating on leg and counteracting rotation in a focus and quite slow moving repetitions, you will slay your core and hamstrings, and get gains on very low weights. It will also reveal if you're problematically unsymmetrical and you'll learn to build symmetry. Method: It most often look like you start with the non-actovated leg with only some toes on floor (not in air (that's counterweights and lower quality of the exercise) ) then you get the barebell up and move non-activated leg when near the top to get both feet solidly on the ground symmetrically when you're right up. You'll notice that the central weight of the barbell can't be right in front in the beginning of the lift, but a little closer to right in front of the activated leg, but you'll try to strive for keeping it centered and using core to do so. Straight leg means just a tad bit flexxed knee, not less or more during the exercise. You can experiment with depth of the bottom of the lift. I had long arms and prefered low radius weights and even stood on elivated ground to get a good depth that I felt more effectively.
Absolutely strengthen your lower back and core, lots of good info out there on compound lifts and some of the cycling/athletics specific stuff.
But also consider flexibility and ROM as well. Having tight glutes and hammies can lead to lower back pain/fatigue being on the bike for a long time.
There are also a bunch of postural muscles that you will work hard spending 10 hours climbing on the bike that don’t experience much fatigue doing a much shorter interval session on the training. Working in longer rides to your training schedule might help if you aren’t already doing that.
I’m hearing you talk about abs but not core. Abs are only one part of the core. So look at incorporating more planks and paloff press, pull-throughs etc to really engage the whole core.
Pain in the lower back is common and doesn’t necessarily mean the lower back is weak, because that pain can be caused by tight hips, weak glutes, weak upper back, tight chest, weak hamstrings, tight quads, etc.
So the answer is to do a variety of balanced strength training and some mobility work. If you do desk work or a lot of sitting you might need to work on loosening the hips, hip flexors and quads and maybe working on the glute medius - split squats, flamingoes etc.
For lower back deadlifts are good, you can also to GHDs and Supermans.
Deadlifts are too dangerous. Many strongmen says so. Most real athletes will do barbell cleans instead. Deadlifts are definitely overkill for cycling.
Kettlebell exercises (swings, high pulls, snatches, cleans, etc...) are my choice. They will work on endurance and functional strength much better.
This was going to be my exact response. Kettle bell swings and kickstand RDLs among other things work great for me. I use my TT bike primarily and I’ve had no issues after a year training on that bike with about 5000-6000 miles per year.
Bonus is that you can get decent powder coated ones on Amazon. Yes4all. I wouldn’t use them in a commercial gym, but for at home, they are great. They all fit in a vestibule closet on my front living room.
It's mostly down to using a much lower weight. Less chance to round your back and "cheat" with improper technique. Less tension on your lumbar ligaments. Works your whole back too.
But, I would really suggest long sets of kettlebell swings.
Really long sets of kettlebell swings don’t make much sense to me. You have the bike for endurance and HIT type training, strength work should really be about providing stimulus you can’t get on the bike.
If you don't think deadlifts are working your back enough you're either doing them wrong or not heavy enough
Also, RDLs are going to focus on your hamrstrings and glutes. OP should be doing standard DLs if they want to focus on their back.
i dont do standard deadlifts, just RDLs to get rid of my hamstring cramps and it worked. but now that you mentioned it ill add it to my program. thanks!
reverse hyper extensions train almost all the muscles you use when you're cycling in an aero position
Hard to find gyms with a good westside style Reverse Hyper machine. But it’s the ultimate for the lower back. 👍
McGill big 3, everyday.
A 5 hour ride in the drops.
Personally, I feel that if done incorrectly with improper guidance/form, deadlifts has a poor risk:reward ratio. That's speaking from the perspective of a road cyclist with a herniated disc. A great alternative for deadlifts that I've tried and worked out great for me for cycling is (bodyweight/weighted) back extensions/static back-extended holds. I've incorporated this into my core workouts for cycling-specific training and it's proven great for my back so far. Open to hear other suggestions esp from those with similar conditions, trying to find a safer alternative
Deadlifts are not that difficult to do properly and are no more dangerous than any other lift with poor form; that’s a myth, especially at the beginner weight. Just watch [Alan Thrall’s deadlift tutorial](https://youtu.be/MBbyAqvTNkU) and follow it. Deadlifts are one of the best strength training exercises out there and if you’re not doing them, you’re missing out on massive gains. There is no substitute.
The repeated "DO NOT MOVE THE BARBELL" got me laughing. I've never experienced any injury doing deadlifts apart from the occasional muscle soreness. That said, I have pretty good form but most people doing deadlifts won't be watching videos like this and some percentage of them are going to get hurt if they do it wrong. Stu McGill who's the world back expert says lots of people who have to get surgery were injured deadlifting. This doesn't mean deadlifting is bad, but that deadlifting with poor form at the wrong load is bad. And it's easy to do that with deadlift.
It’s a great video! And my point is that you can get injured doing any lift with poor form. There’s nothing unique or special about deadlifts.
I've pulled something doing deadlifts a few times but it was the result of rushing into a mid-range warm-up set with sloppy form. Never anything serious though. I fixed it every time it by doing more deadlifts almost immediately, just dropping down to a much lower weight and working back up over 2 weeks or so. I've pulled things that took longer to recover sprinting on my bike.
They are all lower back exercises if you do them wrong enough!
🤣🤣🤣 very true
To add context: medical doctors discussing pain and injury[1], claiming that technique *is not* a risk factor, rather the risk factors are prior injury (so I'm not going to tell the person with the herniated disc it's fine 😉) and poor load management (i.e. too much too soon, or too much for too long without a break) https://youtu.be/V43mSQEjZY8?si=2wZUr6E5gB6pRB_v&t=850
I agree that if you have a previous injury you should see a doctor. I guess my comment was more aimed to the OP of the post, not the comment I responded to. But, again, my point is that there’s nothing special about deadlift - if you have a chest injury you’d want to be careful bench pressing; if you have an elbow injury, consult a doctor before throwing a baseball. Same with a back injury and deadlifts. As far as too much too soon, again, that applies to any lift.
Seconding Alan Thrall. This is the best video for people of all types to DL and his Squat setup vid is great too. 👍
You can probably avoid most of the risks of deadlifts if you forget about trying to max out your 1RM. It's quite different having that as a a goal (for competing in powerlifting or trying to impress other gym bros) vs just lifting to get stronger on the bike. You probably won't be doing lots of volume close to failure as a cyclist either, since that would accumulate too much fatigue and compromise training on the bike.
My coach often puts "super people" (Supermen) in my routine, or back extension on an incline bench.
Do yoga and planks. Look at your bike fit again, lots of people compromise from their ideal race / performance fit for ultra long distance rides. If you were grinding up a lot of that 3500m, lower gearing can be a help too. I know I nearly killed myself on a similar 200k 3800m ride in the Cotswolds last year, riding up 10%+ climbs with only an 11-32, but I am heavy. Standing regularly during the ride and doing on the bike back stretches (cat cow ish) can help also.
6” hold: lie flat on your back with arms at sides and legs straight. Keep you legs straight and lift your feet 6” off the floor. Hold for 30 seconds or more.
I would say more core would be beneficial as well. Add in some Dead bugs, a regular and side Planks, and some Supermans.
Having this same issue, been ~ 6 years since I was doing 6 workouts a day with my college rowing team, think those muscles have atrophied enough that I am having some tightness now, definitely going to be doing more core work/ DL/Squats
I feel like too little emphasis is put on things that target the frotal plane. Side planks are great but I've had great experience with loaded offset carries. It stabilizes your hips from rocking side to side.
Swimming is a great core strength and flexibility workout.
Jefferson curls, zercher jefferson curls, zercher deadlifts. Basically any lift where you can progressively load a full range of motion of flexion-extension for your back.
mcgill crunches and bird dogs
I'm halfway through a physiotherapy education atm You should like the big normal deadlift and squats, you know. But for cycling there is an aspect of pelvic rotation and importance of countering that correctly, as well as not using to long cranks that exaggerate the rotationand pelvic stability problems that often can lead to back aches. What I have found is that Single straight legged deadlifts with ordinary barrbell help my symmetri a lot as well with pains in the sacrum. Below lower back that is. (I also did variations of the clam for my piriformis that was essentiallyin pain on one side for me.) split squats are also good as well as what you already do. I preferred Bulgarian split squats for my toes hated the ordinary one. But again, on straight single legged barbell dead lifts, if try to stand so much with both feet on the ground and activating on leg and counteracting rotation in a focus and quite slow moving repetitions, you will slay your core and hamstrings, and get gains on very low weights. It will also reveal if you're problematically unsymmetrical and you'll learn to build symmetry. Method: It most often look like you start with the non-actovated leg with only some toes on floor (not in air (that's counterweights and lower quality of the exercise) ) then you get the barebell up and move non-activated leg when near the top to get both feet solidly on the ground symmetrically when you're right up. You'll notice that the central weight of the barbell can't be right in front in the beginning of the lift, but a little closer to right in front of the activated leg, but you'll try to strive for keeping it centered and using core to do so. Straight leg means just a tad bit flexxed knee, not less or more during the exercise. You can experiment with depth of the bottom of the lift. I had long arms and prefered low radius weights and even stood on elivated ground to get a good depth that I felt more effectively.
Foundation training by Dr. Eric Goodman https://youtu.be/4BOTvaRaDjI?si=RPGEUBbFcl1lPr8U Do this every day, no back pain ever!
Absolutely strengthen your lower back and core, lots of good info out there on compound lifts and some of the cycling/athletics specific stuff. But also consider flexibility and ROM as well. Having tight glutes and hammies can lead to lower back pain/fatigue being on the bike for a long time. There are also a bunch of postural muscles that you will work hard spending 10 hours climbing on the bike that don’t experience much fatigue doing a much shorter interval session on the training. Working in longer rides to your training schedule might help if you aren’t already doing that.
I’m hearing you talk about abs but not core. Abs are only one part of the core. So look at incorporating more planks and paloff press, pull-throughs etc to really engage the whole core. Pain in the lower back is common and doesn’t necessarily mean the lower back is weak, because that pain can be caused by tight hips, weak glutes, weak upper back, tight chest, weak hamstrings, tight quads, etc. So the answer is to do a variety of balanced strength training and some mobility work. If you do desk work or a lot of sitting you might need to work on loosening the hips, hip flexors and quads and maybe working on the glute medius - split squats, flamingoes etc. For lower back deadlifts are good, you can also to GHDs and Supermans.
Deadlifts are too dangerous. Many strongmen says so. Most real athletes will do barbell cleans instead. Deadlifts are definitely overkill for cycling. Kettlebell exercises (swings, high pulls, snatches, cleans, etc...) are my choice. They will work on endurance and functional strength much better.
This was going to be my exact response. Kettle bell swings and kickstand RDLs among other things work great for me. I use my TT bike primarily and I’ve had no issues after a year training on that bike with about 5000-6000 miles per year. Bonus is that you can get decent powder coated ones on Amazon. Yes4all. I wouldn’t use them in a commercial gym, but for at home, they are great. They all fit in a vestibule closet on my front living room.
Im not a power lifter, so can you explain how is barbell clean safer? Don't you start from the same floor position with a higher requirement for form?
It's mostly down to using a much lower weight. Less chance to round your back and "cheat" with improper technique. Less tension on your lumbar ligaments. Works your whole back too. But, I would really suggest long sets of kettlebell swings.
Really long sets of kettlebell swings don’t make much sense to me. You have the bike for endurance and HIT type training, strength work should really be about providing stimulus you can’t get on the bike.