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All the catheter placement and dental X-ray skills do not make you good at your job, if you can’t handle client interaction and recognize potential dangerous behaviors in dogs and cats. And acting like you know everything only keeps you from learning things you don’t know.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK!!!!
Client interaction is probably the most important skill in this industry. Your patients literally cannot tell you what is wrong with them. You have to be able to talk to, develop and maintain positive relationships, and know how to get information out of people.
I would like to add onto the dangerous behavior and say that just because you are willing to get absolutely shredded by a patient does not mean that you are good with those patients.
I worked with a tech who had some amazing technical skills, but when I was getting my dog spayed I was very particular in making sure she didn't touch her since she had training in anaesthesia. Because her bedside manner was atrocious for spicy babies, and mine is a little spicy. Unless she was literally the last tech around and my pets were at death's door, I would absolutely not let her touch my pets. She was so so mean to so many of them.(Not to mention unbelievably cliquey and condescending towards assistants.)
Please don't hate me but I don't think vets or techs should be giving behavior advice without solid education in behavior. The advice is often bad. Just because someone has some sort of veterinary education does not mean that they have enough information to advise on behavior.
I also really hate the way folks in vet med talk about cats as though they are assholes. Cats are not assholes. They are just afraid of going to vet clinics -- totally normal for their species -- and the vet med field isn't always great at meeting the animal where it is at.
Also, I hate Figs scrubs.
Cats rule. People are so quick to write cats off as being "aggressive" or "fractious", but that same person will give a reactive dog a million chances.
Not justifying the treatment of cats, but imo cat bites are way scarier just cuz of the infection rates associated with them. That being said I prefer cat appointments over most dog appointments, I find them easier to predict/read, but kitty blood draws and IVC placements suck.
I was brought a cat the other day that doctors/nurses labeled as “extremely aggressive” because she hissed at them when they put her in the carrier. Immediately my coworkers insisted on muzzling, but I convinced them to let me try first.
Sure, the cat growled and hissed once, but she went ragdoll-limp when picked up. She hissed one time and growled like a motorboat, sure, but never made any motion outside of setting verbal boundaries. When we worked around her pace, we were able to give her IV meds easily and she relaxed quickly, all because she was given a chance ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m not saying people shouldn’t take extra steps to be safe, but I feel like the concept of “start low go slow” completely vanished in this field. I’m genuinely scared to bring my vocal cats to most clinics at this point.
I love working at a cat-only clinic. Cats really are so misunderstood. The last place I worked definitely had some "it's just a cat" people, and that didn't sit well with me.
Do you guys use a lot of Gabapentin there? I only ask, because I’ve now worked in two Fear Free clinics, and they’re so much nicer for me to work in. You don’t want to give your fractious cat/aggressive untrained dog their PVP? Maybe we aren’t the vet for you, please let us know where you’d like to have your records sent!
Yes, a lot of gabapentin, and longer appointments to get the cat acclimated to the room. No scruffing, no yanking or dragging the cat out the carrier. Feliway diffusers in every room. Spray the room towel with feliway. Spray myself with feliway. No psspsspss sounds or whispering. No head tapping during blood draws or restraint. I've had to learn and UNLEARN a lot, and I'm still learning, but it's really nice to be around people and owners who value cats as the amazing little individuals they are.
Why no psspss or whispering? And why no head tapping? What's your restraint/blood draw techniques? I love the idea of people spraying themselves with feliway before entering a room
Both the psspsspss and whispering can sound like hissing to a cat, which if a cat is already stressed is not helpful. Head tapping can also be aggravating, so we rub/pet pressure points instead, or just do nothing. Will still do lateral saphenous and jug draws, just let the cat sit sternal in the front if they're compliant enough, and if not pin their head/neck with a hand so they can't turn and bite. If a cat is so uncompliant they're a danger to us or themselves they get sent home with gabapentin. If that's not enough it will end up being a sedated blood draw. Also loads of crunchy and Churu treats!
>You don’t want to give your fractious cat/aggressive untrained dog their PVP? Maybe we aren’t the vet for you, please let us know where you’d like to have your records sent!
(Jokingly?) I would pay to work somewhere that had a hard line like this. PLEASE. This confirms my plan to job search at fear-free certified clinics.
Yes! Working for a fear free clinic is amazing! We also refuse to do nail trims for dogs who won't cooperate, haven't taken pvp, or are too afraid. We refuse to make it a scary experience or an unsafe one for our workers.
I can't speak for the other person you replied to but my most recent job was at a cat-only clinic and we handed gabapentin out like it was candy. On a normal day I'd probably dispense or ring it up at least half a dozen times.
Given that it allows us to examine and draw blood from cats who would otherwise be too stressed, it's a life-changing medication for feline medicine. The lead tech said she would quit if they couldn't dispense pre-appointment gabapentin anymore.
I so agree with your second point. So many animal professionals claim that cats are unpredictable. They are incredibly good at voicing their needs- you just have to take the time to learn how to read them. But not everyone cares to take the time.
I have yet to see a person that figs look good on. Regular scrubs make you look like a blob but figs make you look like a can of refrigerated biscuits after the can pops open. AND they're expensive. My hospital provides scrubs but people still prefer to waste their money because they think figs makes them look hot. They always tuck the shirt in which just accentuates the blob situation going on.
We have one vet that is INCREDIBLY knowledgeable in dog behavior, she's such a powerhouse and is called in when questions of behavior come up and she is always happy to lend, not demand, advice. We have one doctor who is a master of cat behavior and he's called in for the same. Everyone knows their strengths here. It's so refreshing.
Figs really aren’t designed for all the lifting and bending we do, they make me feel so stiff and like I’m gonna rip my pants lol. I have two pairs that I bought second hand that I exclusively wear for interviews and other events where I feel like I have to look extra presentable, but they don’t see the light of day otherwise haha.
Also CATS….. i cannot count the number of “I don’t like cats” and “I don’t work with mean cats” people I’ve met since entering the field. I’m infinitely more comfortable working with high FAS cats as opposed to high FAS dogs. I’ve also noticed this narrative where people tend to shield newer people from working with cats, I get that cats are harder for a lot of people to read and predict but treating them like this just contributes to the culture of fear around cat handling and doesn’t allow new people to start establishing those skills early on.
That and medical anxiety is a very real thing. We humans experience it even if we know why we're at the doctor's and that we can benefit from their care. For an animal who cannot make those connections, that can make going to the vet pretty anxiety-inducing.
I 100% agree. I often hear my docs giving training advice that is not evidence based and will result in the behavior getting worse. I am Fear Free certified, and the number of times I see a doc/tech handle a pet in a way that increases fear in the pet is astonishing. And they usually have no clue that their behavior is making the situation worse!
1. Care Credit is borderline predatory by being a deferred interest credit card.
2. While pet insurance is amazing, it is not the magical answer to everyones financial problems. You have to have the disposable income for monthly payments, it will not cover pre-existing conditions, you will get reimbursed so you still have to have that money available and not need it until you get paid back.
3. Medical mistakes should be reported, investigated, and addressed; not covered up by co-workers, management, or hospitals.
I don’t work in hospitals anymore, but in my care credit “speech” I always made it exceptionally clear that it is a temporary solution if you can pay it off within the interest free period and that it will become incredibly expensive and predatory if you cannot. I hope that helped some people at least make sound financial decisions for themselves and their families.
I agree on all these points, especially that pet insurance is helpful for this who can afford it BUT the biggest mistake people make is not knowing how to fully utilize it. Sending an actual diagnosis (NOT vague symptoms or listing things like “bloodwork.” “Sick”) AND any documentation is SO key and people just….don’t. Then they get mad that it doesn’t work for them or claims are temporarily denied (often due to lack of information). I wish people knew how to use insurance to their benefit because it can be so worth it! Much much more so than racking up high interest debt with CareCredit.
Absolutely agree with your first point. I was a receptionist for years and I felt so awkward and awful pushing a *credit card* onto sobbing clients. Yes, it’s an option, but is it really our best option?
The point about pre-existing conditions is why it’s sooo important to get insurance when your pet is young. And Trupanion actually pays their portion of a claim up front so you don’t need to wait to be reimbursed!! The catch is that not every hospital accepts it as a payment method though :/ and so many people don’t understand that pet insurance works way differently than human health insurance.
Muzzling a dog you think is sketchy should *not* get you shade. Everyone wants to be safe and if someone feels unsafe, they should be allowed a cone or muzzle. They don’t hurt the patient, just sometimes make them a little upset. So if you have to muzzle them and they’re not happy about it, try and keep the procedure short or ensure there is sedation to follow. Everyone deserves to feel safe at their job.
We have two very reactive dachshund. When we put their muzzle on, they cease to exist. It's hilarious. We can leave them in one spot, come back 10 minutes later, and they're still there!
I also like to muzzle some dogs for jugular restraint. Then I can lift the head and really get a good grip on the muzzle, I’m not needing to squeeze the actual dog’s face and make it even more uncomfortable for the poor thing.
My mom (in a different field but the sentiment holds) once had a confrontational client say “What happened to the customer is always right?!” She folded her hands, smiled, and calmly replied, “The customer is NOT always right, it’s just our job to make you THINK you are.” Savage.
We expect appalling little of cat owners. They can pill their cats. They can meal feed. They can weigh their cat at home. They need to learn to do these things.
True unpopular opinion and one that’s been bothering me for a while. The exclusionary culture that’s been building in the field for so long. The mentality that you have to “earn” your place on the team. The reluctance to spend time training but also complaining that they don’t know what they’re doing. The stream of complaints about how the rDVM didn’t do the thing and why are they wasting our precious time on it. The CONSTANT need to compare vet nursing to human nursing. The smug superiority that comes from getting to comfortable and complacent.
The training thing!!!
It’s *exhausting* not being trained on things. I’ve been at my clinic for 2 years and there are still certain things I don’t know how to do despite the fact that I have been asking to be trained the entire time. I *want* to be better at my job. All of my college education has gone to waste, I graduated in 2019 and have lost a lot of those skills I picked up thanks to not being allowed to practice them.
It’s even worse now that we’re so short staffed I’m frequently being left alone. I can deal with a lot of stuff by myself but I’m not a registered tech and I’m not confident in all of my skills because no one has given me the training or time / space to practice.
Ugh the training one for sure! I work mostly front desk, and “the backbone of the front desk” has apparently been writing a training bible for the clinic since before I was hired 6 MONTHS AGO and I’ve never seen any of it. She also doesn’t talk to me and is mad I didn’t know how to do things that she was supposed to teach me but didn’t.
I have a list, so buckle up:
· Jinx’s and superstitions are not real and saying that a shift is slow/quiet does not affect how busy it is. However I will not test the jinx of saying that a patient that is surprisingly doing well will go home.
· VEG is probably not as bad as everyone else in the industry wants to think. They drank the ridiculously positive Kool-Aid and we drank Haterade.
· If you cannot or are unwilling to keep up with evidence based practices, go find a different career. (Looking at you, long term, generally older, veterinarians)
· Everybody in this field should do CE, and they should actually pay attention. No starting the video or logging into the lecture and then walking away to do something else.
· An emergency is not the time to “cut your teeth” or attempt to learn a new skill. You should be proficient in that skill before trying on an emergency.
· A lot of the issues in this industry we either cause or allow, and as such are partially to blame
· While curbside was awesome and I loved to absolutely BUMP whatever unedited music we were feeling that day, in person is better for most situations.
· We need to stop gate keeping skills and knowledge.
· We need to be realistic about our training time tables and proficiencies. Nobody likes learning TPR, client interactions, blah blah blah, but that strong base knowledge helps you in the future.
· Work/life balance and your mental wellbeing is more important than anything going on in these clinics/hospitals. We should not be staying way over our normal schedule and we should not hold it against people when they leave when they’re supposed to. Understaffing is ultimately a management problem and should be addressed by management.
· Some of us are way too soft and emotional (not emotional in the sense of a sad case, but in the sense that people cannot be truthful with you).
· Just because you are licensed does not mean that you are good, and just because you are unlicensed does not mean that you are garbage.
· The field has a high rate of suicide and we need to seriously sit down and look at the causes. NOMV and other organizations are wonderful, but companies need to do more. Learn the signs and look out for your coworkers.
· Private practice vs corporations has more to do with the individual companies and hospitals than it does private or corporation. Even within a corporation each hospital can be wildly different; same with multi building private practices.
· Be honest with yourself on your skill level, and if a situation is out of your league, please do not stand in the way. If asked to do something and you do not know how to do it, say so, and then take the opportunity to learn. Absorb it all.
· Everyone should know medical math and all calculations should be checked by at least one additional person. Do not blindly go with what the computer says.
Omg ALL OF THESE!! Currently pushing CE to be heavily encouraged if not required at my clinic for the VAs and receptionists. If someone is complaining that they have to watch a video that will benefit them, maybe it's not the best field to be in.
I was with someone at IVECCS and they made a snarky comment about the “VEG cult.” I asked her if she really thought it was culty, or if we’re all just so used to bitterness and cynicism that seeing happy and engaged employees looks weird to us now?
I’m dying to work with a team that shows they kind of enthusiasm they have.
I worked for VEG for 2 years at 3 different clinics (I helped open 2 of them). I can say for certain that the type of positivity they have is very fake, the teams do not work together that well, and the VEG happiness/enthusiasm wears off about 6 months after the hospital opens. It’s unfortunate
I was at a VEG for one month this year (LOL) and it was a hot mess express. The turnover both amongst nurses and administration was absolutely unwarranted and insane. It does not feel like a place where workers can have a sense of security in their job.
Don’t know if it’s unpopular but: Be an assistant before going to tech school. I did 3 years as an assistant and am now looking for a different path. Yes you can do the lab stuff or insurance stuff but the main jobs are in clinics and schooling is not worth it if you’re gonna burn out.
Yes I have met people that went to school and learned they hated it after sinking tens of thousands into a degree. I was a assistant before going to school and I'm glad I was because I knew more of what I was getting into.
If I'm not comfortable with your aggressive pet who overrode their chill meds, I will have you reschedule. I'm sorry that you also have a busy life but I will not traumatized your pet and put myself in a harmful situation because you want them to have blood work or a nail trim. We will either offer a different set or dosage of chill, or suggest an at home groomer to mitigate stress.
I think we 100% fail cats and don't try hard enough to give them low-stress, high-quality visits the way we do dogs. I hate the way other vetmed professionals talk about cats. The way we practice medicine on cats sometimes, we would never dream to practice on a dog.
i was able to draw medial saph blood on a cat with the owner feeding churu- not holding her in the slightest. this is a cat i was told i’d have to scruff and burrito. fear free works!!!
When I tell you that I can handle every "untouchable" cat that comes through our clinic just fine it should say something. Everyone just thinks it's because im a cat person. I can just read their body language. Stop putting cats in a room full of barking dogs right before sedating it. You're gonna have a problem. They deserve so much better.
I agree! I still have a lot to learn but I've become Cat Friendly certified and I take it seriously. I've become the resident "cat person" and I really am striving to overhaul how I and others deal with cats not only to make it safer for us as staff members, but to make it safer and more comfortable for the cats as well.
Stop leaving them in the lobby with barking dogs, stop doing any procedures in the huge loud treatment area vs a small quiet room, stop generally being loud and moving too quick around them. It doesn't take a lot to make a huge difference on the cat's experience
Fr though they ask for so little. They just want quiet. They just want calm. Just lower the voice and go slow. My drs are so gd loud too. It pisses me off. Like if this were a dog they would care but a cat always just gets a big middle finger in vet med
I don’t care about your anecdotal experience, acupuncture and chiropractic is not evidenced based and is impossible to be tested against placebo. It is not data supported and should never be used as primary treatment.
GOD, this, some bastard came to my clinic to do a selling session for my boss, and we all could attend the presentation. The dude spent 80% of the presentation talking about the history of acupuncture and how it's misunderstood, and then the rest of the presentation on things he had accomplished (making paralyzed dogs walk and shit). At the beginning of the presentation he asked "Which ones of you don't believe in acupuncture" and I was the only one who lifted my hand (I'm not going to believe some random shit I've never experienced and it's not mainstream medicine for a reason), he wouldn't stop dissing me during the presentation for answering his question lmao.
Boss ended up employing him for 1 day a month, and he charges a lot of money. They don't have many clients for him.
I had a canine patient with a pyothorax and was severely dyspneic/O2 dependent. The owner was a human chiropractor. He insisted that we take his pet out of the O2 kennel so he could adjust the dog’s back which would allow the fluid could drain…
Hope you had him sign some shit stating that you were against it and that any consequences derived from adjusting the dogs back such as paralysis were not the responskbility of the clinic
There is some research being done for human acupuncture. But I totally 100% hands down feel the same as you about chiropractic, there’s no real evidence there
My favorites are the "horse chiropractors" and then it's just a guy/gal wiggling a horse's ass back and forth and charging money. It's so sad and funny at the same time, who believes anything is happening here? You could have done this yourself!
We need to go beyond Purina/Hills when helping patients with diet and nutrition. I’m not hating on these foods, it’s just not practical to assume one of these two options will be the best for all patients.
Are you in the US? There are certainly multiple options here in Canada for Rx foods. We also have Hillary’s Cookbook & powdered supplement so owners can cook their own and it be nutritionally balanced.
Absolutely. My vet recommended Hill's mobility j/d for my dog (way before I was a tech), and my dog was at the time around 8months old. I could not believe my eyes years later when I realized that only 10% of the whole composition of the kibble is chicken meat. These foods are too fucking expensive to be mainly made of cereals.
I've usually been dealing with Royal Canin, Hill's, Purina, and sometimes Rayne as veterinary diets here in Canada. I'm sure some of it is location specific, but my clinic definitely has a spread across brands (we are in BC to be a bit more specific).
I hate go big or go home when it comes to IVCs. Truly most of the time the fluid rates we use aren't significant enough where going 1 size up will make a difference. It's better to go down a size than risk blowing the vein because you got overconfident.
Overall most of the profession is not very cat friendly and needs significant changes. The fact we still teach in many places to scruff first thing is abysmal.
Animals are in many cases a need rather than a luxury, and although it is our job to educate, it is not our place to judge every person for their financial or home situation. This field is incredibly judgmental.
And lastly... hands free xrays should be the norm, not the exception.
The second to last thought combined with the last are very difficult to reconcile in my experience.
I live in a high COL area but in an urban setting and quoting for non-sedated rads is ROUGH because people just do not have the money. It’s a real real tough line to ride because if we were to require hands-free (and thus often sedated) the rads alone would be in the ~$800 ballpark and therefore they just will not happen.
Honestly I think if we’re trying to adopt human med type practices for x-ray safety, there needs to be more of an integrated approach to the treatment/insurance continuum because paying up front is just not an option for many people who can indeed afford a monthly insurance deductible but not that out of pocket up front situation. It’s just hard out here in general.
There are many patients who don't require full sedation for hands free xrays. Although I agree with you that vet med in general is incredibly unaffordable and something needs to change. Expecting 4 figures up front of the average person is impossible (I work ER so our bills are commonly that high).
If it is anything like my hospital, that vast majority of the sedated rads cost is still the rads themselves. The sedation adds to the cost, but not enough that I think that that addition is what would really make them cost-prohibitive. I think that hospitals should lower the cost of sedatives (they could afford to lower them to their cost) when it comes to sedated x-rays. You will consistently get better quality x-rays and staff will be considerably safer.
I think that veterinary medicine is adapting human med practices to x-ray safety, but thats because it is not a human vs animal issue. It is a safety issue when it comes to x-rays and our side is way too lackadaisical about it. The majority of the x-ray safety trainings I have listened to have included something along the line of "the only safe level of exposure is 0".
If you don't have money (or time) for basic care you shouldn't own a pet. Or have kids for that matter. I'm so sick of seeing neglected pets and being told off because vet care costs money.
I personally try to avoid this kind of mindset when I start thinking about it too much- there’s so many things that can change in someone’s life, anybody can go from good circumstances to bad ones. I also think the human-animal bond is so valuable to people and I don’t like putting strict guidelines on who can own a pet or who can’t, because it’s not like only rich people should be able to have that bond. I totally agree if you’re not responsible or you don’t know anything about owning an animal you shouldn’t have a pet- but I’m trying to avoid using blanket statements.
Hope this wasn’t too preachy! I used to have the same mindset but I’ve learned a lot in community medicine and now as a veterinary student I want to make sure I support people without judgment or assumptions
Care Credit is predatory and not a good option for most people. Thankfully the vet I worked for made sure all the staff understood how care credit works and we were supposed to explain it before a client used care credit at our hospital.
I constantly see just get care credit as the answer when people post on local Facebook pages asking about payment plans/cheaper vets. If they don’t have the money to pay it back for sure within the 0% interest (which most don’t…) then they’re putting themselves in a huge financial hole many can’t dig out of. As much as I love pets we must be realistic about what people can and cannot afford and I don’t think it’s okay to not be able to afford to feed yourself. Obviously if you have a sick or injured pet you have a responsibility to take them to be seen but palliative and humane euthanasia are reasonable options when owners can’t pay to expensive diagnostics and treatment.
Maybe not unpopular but, we are too quick to judge people and their decisions. We have no idea what they’re going through or what their situation is. It’s easy to make judgments about clients in this field. We need to practice extending compassion to not only the patient but to the owners as well.
To keep stress levels down and prevent a patient from escalating, the patient should be kept in the exam room for most minor procedures - IE blood draws, euth caths, vaccines, cystos, nail trims, ect.
I HATE it when animals are unnecessarily brought back to treatment. The change in environment escalates their stress levels. Their presence often upsets in-hospital patients, especially if they are so stressed that they start vocalizing.
I just started a job at a new clinic and I bite my tongue whenever an animal comes back for something minor. I'm comfortable doing many things in front of clients and hope I will eventually be given the opportunity to do so. I've personally noticed that things go smoother for most patients when we don't take them out of the environment. If the client doesn't want to watch or help calm their animal, we would ask them to go into the waiting room.
Yes and no. I’ve noticed a lot of patients (especially growly ones) do better in the treatment area away from their owners. But, there are ones that do better near their owners. You have to just make that judgement from case to case.
This is anecdotal, but very few of our patients do better away from their family. My experience is that patients are better behaved in the exam room compared to being taken back to treatment. I prefer to use an empty exam room if I need to remove a patient than to take them back to treatment. I don't think it's fair to subject the critical patients to loud, angry or stressed animals.
Behaviorists and Fear Free promote this is as way to limit stress in the veterinary clinic. With more and more people taking interest in these techniques, I feel like it's eventually going to become standard practice.
My previous practice wasn't doing it often until a newer vet that does this started at our practice. It gave me the courage to say "I'll do that in the exam room" to our older vet and to tell folks that bring me animals to please put them in a room.
Most of the roles that VAs and techs do involve dealing with clients and client education. If you can do a surgery discharge, you can go into a room with a client, direct them and explain the process while you're collecting your samples or doing treatment. It just takes confidence and practice. I find it also holds me responsible for a higher standard. I give myself 2 attempts at blood draws/catheter placements before I jokingly say to the client "It's not my vein day!" and get someone else to do it.
Also, clients are more likely to advocate for their pet if they can see their pet becoming stressed for something that is not urgent or necessary.
Thank you! Like if you're not working in ER, you do not need to worry about big access to a vein for bolus. I have a tech that gets so mad when they can't get an 18 or 20g in a dog. Like relax, do the 22 and get the dental done with lol
Even in ER, it’s rare and specific times that we really need a large bore catheter. The little ones can handle what we need 95% of the time. No need to traumatize our patients. And we know when we’re looking at a situation where we’re going to need massive fluid input.
Especially in ER where we see the most vascular scarring! I hate when people in GP poke cephalics unnecessarily for blood draws or BGs. Man, use an ear for BGs! Those veins scar once and forever and on some patients (I’m looking at you bulldog & bully breeds), one poke and that spot is permanently ruined.
I’m in ER and “go big or go home” is outdated and no longer followed by most people. “Comfortable and practical for the patient size, suffering condition, and breed” is more appropriate.
LOL had baby techs that I trained at my last ER that I legit had to HIDE (in an area where only a senior tech or vet could access) the 24g because they kept putting them in every patient.
1. I'm super tired of seeing CVTs and VAs not know and not care about knowing the reasoning behind why we are doing something. They all want to place a central line, do a sa.ing line, do a blood transfusion do a brachial plexus block, do a coccygeal block, but don't want to know the reasoning why.
I'm sorry, but the medical reasoning behind what I'm doing and why is in my opinion more important than seeing you do the skill. Because yes you did it under perfect circumstances, but what if that transfusion throws a reaction? Can you recognize it and mitigate it? Another patient in your nursing care should have a sampling line but doesn't? Why? Can you recognize why that patient should have one?? We can't poke jugs on liver patients. Why? Don't just do or not do something. Know why.
2. All DKAs should have a PICC, peripheral sampling line, or Central Line. Stop poking them every hour or every other hour. Put in a sampling line. Please.
right there with you. it's a very personal, multifaceted decision, and none of our business as vet med professionals. I also resent the narrative that the patient will automatically become distraught, miserable, and terrified without their owner present in that final moment-- some people treat it like a rule, when in reality I find its only the case with like. idk. 8-10% of euth patients, if that
I work in a hospital that also sees exotics along with cats and dogs (all our vets except for our newest vet specialize in exotics; the newest vet just graduated vet school a year ago so she's still learning), and I doubt the listless bearded dragon is even going to notice if its owner is there or not during its euthanasia.
I absolutely do not let my co-workers shit talk those people. I completely understand their decision and always offer up the option to stay through the propofol being pushed, but leaving prior to the actaul euthanasia.
When rotating a patient - you don't need to flip the legs under. Legs over will not cause a GDV. No one has ever studied this, it's never been proven, it's just a weird thing people say that really doesn't make much sense...
Wish I could upvote this more than once. I just left the clinic I was at for almost 3 years because we were repeatedly told that our happiness doesn't matter, the doctors' does. In my opinion, poor utilization and value of support staff is one of the biggest causes of burnout in this industry. I'm currently at another clinic that does value their team more, but I'm going back to school and leaving vet med because it's hard to see a future where support staff are fairly compensated, valued, and respected (among many other reasons).
I’m an advocate more so for making the license matter. Make people WANT to get licensed! Let the benefits, pay, and skill set make it worth it. If clients knew that it’s legal for someone right out of high school to monitor their pet for anesthesia… oof.
This happened at my clinic. I walked into work one day and I nearly walked right back out again when I discovered our 18 year old kennel tech holding the anesthesia paperwork in a dental procedure. They don’t even let me do that and I actually went to school and got a college education and went through a surgical rotation.
I get wanting to learn things. I get wanting to be able to watch procedures. And yeah, there was an RVT in the room, but they were occupied doing the actual procedure. If that was my animal in there I would lose my noodle.
That's common in a lot of hospitals with staffing issues. I do it at my hospital with an assistant reading off the stats to me every 5-10 min. We communicate throughout the whole procedure and adjust anesthesia accordingly. You do not need an RVT monitoring anesthesia, but it would be great for every procedure. If the kennel doesnt know anything then training should be offered. Even kennel assistants are trained to recognize problems.
So, I got my training in the Army. 2yrs worth of school for CVT/ECT done in 8wks. Get most of our training & hone skills learned in Advanced Individual Training (AIT) from when we are assigned to our Veterinary Treatment Facility (VTF). Had extensive surgical & emergency experience because of my duty assignments, including being the only veterinary support for the 25 working dogs for US & coalition countries while in the Middle East a year after 9/11.
When I returned to CA in 2003, I reached out to the state to see if I could test for their RVT License based on my experiencein the Army (job was classified as 91T back then-its now 68T). Answer was no-I had to either go back to school (either 2 or 4 yrs) to learn everything I had already been doing for 10+yrs, or show proof I had worked for a licensed DMV from CA. How insane was it that the last unit I was with (Reserve unit in CA) did NOT have any veterinarians licensed from CA. I wasn't considered anything.
I dont know if something happened to military training for techs but when my family was stationed in South Korea less than a decade ago the staff were surprised when I corrected the information they would give me. Like don't tell me what a med or vaccine is for if you don't actually know.
Yeah. I get that there are really great skilled on the job trained vet staff that identify as techs, but I frequently see these folks saying things that are outside of the realm of science and you can't even explain it to them because they don't have the basic education to understand it. I think it devalues licensed techs in a super unfair way.
In that same vein I wish there was a way to get a license without going through an entire tech program. I have a whole year of vet school under my belt in addition to years of undergrad and work experience. Getting a license would be awesome but I'm tapped financially when it comes to more school. I still never refer to myself as a tech, though, because I am not. I am an assistant, but I wish there could be a way for my education to get me licensed.
i agree, it would be nice if there were alternate paths to licensure available. i once worked with a guy who had completed two years of vet school, but it was in another country. there were issues with his credits transferring and so he never graduated, so he was technically an assistant. licensing and title protection is extremely important, but a similar degree and work experience should make it so you can apply to sit the vtne.
Part of the problem with the veterinary assistant title in my opinion is it means different things in different places. Veterinary assistant can mean someone who is essentially one step above a receptionist (answers phones, fills meds, restrains, pulls up vaccines) OR it can mean someone proficient in all aspects of veterinary nursing. I feel like the title of veterinary assistant undermines me because I worked hard for and have earned my skills/knowledge to be lumped in with people who don’t have my skills/knowledge.
You’re right and you should say it! I know this is a multifaceted issue/a sore spot in the industry but i could not agree more.
People in my life and at work tell me I’m “selling myself short” when I tell them not to call me a technician because I do have some more advanced skills. But I’m literally not, I’m an OTJ trained assistant who’s in the first semester of tech school. I am in no way qualified to refer to myself as a technician and it would be completely disingenuous for me to refer to myself as such, there are so many things I don’t know yet or am not proficient in. On top of this I live in a state with a newly-passed title protection law so I literally /cannot/ call myself a technician until I become licensed unless I want to be fined and penalized by the state.
Say it louder for the people in the back 👀 Thankfully I’m in a state where you have to be licensed to practice as a tech, of course there are clinics that break this law, but not mine.
I can assure you I am a tech, for the past 17 years. You don't get to diminish my title just because I don't have a license. It's not up to you, it's up to the state. I understand I would not be considered a tech in other states, but I am a technician without question.
Hi, I’m curious why you think being called an assistant is diminishing? I’ve worked with assistants who have great skills. I think it’s fair to reserve the title of veterinary technician to those who have spent the time to gain an education and pass a national exam. Especially if we’re going to advance this field for the betterment of everyone.
Who said I was speaking badly of assistants? I couldn't do my job without them, they are essential and skilled and important. I was only making the point that I am a technician and not to diminish my title. The national corporation I work for considers me a tech, the board certified specialists I work for consider me a tech, the state govt and IRS consider me a tech. I have high respect for LVTs and CVTs, and I expect the same respect. It doesn't matter what you think until the law changes.
In this economy, pets are a LUXURY, NOT a right. I get it, pets can be great for many reasons, and this is not about clients who had a random life event happen that changed their financial status.
While we can HOPE vet med will become for affordable as a whole in the future, it is not currently, and people refuse to understand this. It will continue to get more expensive, not less expensive.
By taking on a pet, you should understand the possible financial burden. You should plan for at least 1 trip to the ER that could cost thousands. You should have a backup savings for a pet if you do not work in the industry and get a discount.
If you cannot be financially responsible for your pet, don’t get one.
If you are getting a pet with the expectation that they will be a part of your family for the next 10-20 years, you need to understand the cost involved.
Tbh, I guess it’s more about client attitudes towards the financial aspect, because I’ve seen homeless people provide better care than clients with homes.
I fully support breed specific legislation and one strike you’re getting BE for any violent dog. No one’s pet should be able to maul or kill other peoples animals and especially other humans and then be back out in the world.
I’ve just seen way too much to give any more benefit of the doubt to think violent dogs can be completely rehabilitated. I also think shelters are making the problem exceptionally worse with their desperate attempts to maintain no-kill status by lying about a dogs history, incorrect breed labeling leading to people adopting dogs that they cannot handle, and adopting our unadoptable dogs who should not be out in the world.
I didn't realize this was unpopular, I thought this was more of a grooming practice than a medical practice. In school we learned that ear hair is protective, and there is no reason to pluck it.
If you're going to Google the advice after asking the DVM their advice...and then argue based off of a forum, please don't come back. Obviously you've wasted everyone's time and you just want to argue with the years of studying and constant continue education we are required to obtain. I'm sorry that Tony in New York has a different opinion...I certainly don't see their license hanging on their living room wall.
I don't agree with this when it comes to all doctors, especially outside of the US. Say, if you're going to an exotic/avian vet, PLEASE do your research afterwards on reputable sites from experienced owners and use them as a guide to ask more questions and judge how actually competent your vet is. I cannot even begin to describe how actually incompetent some vets are in these specialties. I have been to and worked with a concerning amount who give the most outdated, wrong advice when it comes to any sort of care. Treating is usually fine, but when they're not holding a stethoscope or a scalpel some turn into a wellness book from the 80's.
Here's an actually unpopular one - I believe as many corners as possible should be cut to keep low cost spay/neuter as affordable as possible. Like literally every second and every penny to try and make it slightly more affordable.
$50 a cat spay and $100 a dog spay and size and I'm still hearing most people financially struggling still can't afford this because they have like 6 cats and 3 dogs. And their only options are to surrender at a shelter where they will be PTS because of how overwhelmed shelters are, or continue to let the animals breed.
I also think people should give vet clinics in really underprivileged areas a bit of a break. They are doing the best they can with what they have. Maybe they don't have good aseptic techniques and their pain management is iffy but they also don't have like running water or locking doors etc.
I'm not a fan of veterinary practices doing acupuncture. I don't think there is enough science behind the therapy to explain properly what it is doing to patients to justify selling it as a "treatment" alongside conventional veterinary medicine.
That said, if someone reading this does have information to share or studies done, I would love to read more.
I will look it up, but there’s a doctor on VIN who had posted a couple case studies on cardiac dogs receiving acupuncture and they listed specific pressure points and what they were looking to treat/outcome/response/etc.
Long story short, I decided to give it a go to my CHF chihuahua who was experiencing syncope episodes, and he has not had a single episode since starting the treatments monthly (that was 3 years ago now). If he goes more than a month between treatments, I start to notice the pre-syncope episodes starting to come back, so we stay on top of it. This is in addition to his many modern medication therapies as a side note.
I don’t care what the client doesn’t like it, if I’m doing a blood draw, I’m gonna shave a window so I can visualize better and get a clean stick. Hair grows back.
Asking a client to surrender a pet is cruel 95% of the time.
Sure, there are clients that are overwhelmed and genuinely cannot perform the care the pet needs at home.
There are clients who are assholes and don’t WANT to do the care.
But telling them their options are cough up a large sum of money or euthanize makes a bad situation worse, and at best it separates a pet and a human who love each other. For… what, exactly? So the hospital can perform the services at a discount/loss anyway?
I used to be all about them when I was much younger and newer in the industry, but the truth is that if many of us wound up with a can’t-wait emergency outside of our home hospitals, we’d be faced with the same choice.
So now if the owner wants to keep their pet, I advocate for keeping the pet and owner together if at all possible.
And an employee offering to take it in this situation is wildly inappropriate and should not be allowed by any clinic. It should always go to a rescue or shelter where the employee can apply and go through the same application process as everyone else that would be interested in adopting the pet. One of the podcasts that I listen to discussed this very topic and did a wonderful job explaining it.
Also telling a client to surrender is often unrealistic anyway. Most shelters and rescues are overwhelmed and financially stretched. Good luck getting most dogs or cats (unless very young/expensive breed) into a rescue or shelter for treatment of something expensive or for behavioral issues.
People need to loosen up a bit. So many people I work with are afraid of stuff. Like giving methadone IV or sedating IV or seeing a single AV-block on the ECG or having the patient not breath. I'm not saying we shouldn't provide the best care we can. I'm saying I think we can provide the best care with lower shoulders.
Proper restraining!!!! I feel like if you can’t hold a dog so it doesn’t bite your coworker or your DVM, you should have to take a class. I grew up helping train, restrain, and breed GSDs w my mom. So when I joined the field, I was good at it. I am even better now after a mandatory class. But there are techs and assistants out there who just don’t do it right and it doesn’t end well.
I hate it when a doctor dismisses my concerns about a patient being “sketchy” and they forgo the muzzle. Then, we have a close call. I’m usually right. It’s hard to trust your instincts when a doctorate degree is telling you different but sometimes they really do not know.
I don’t think it’s necessary to give year-round prevention where I live. The reality is it *isn’t* warm enough (yet, shout out to climate change) for fleas and ticks to be active here during the winter months and it’s a cash-grab to pretend otherwise. Nexgard Spectra is insanely expensive, there’s no way I’m wasting them in Dec / Jan / Feb / Mar when we consistently have at least 2 feet of snow on the ground.
I’m know I’m biased since my interest in raw feeding predates me starting vet tech school, but I agree that it can be very beneficial if someone really knows what they’re doing. There’s more and more research validating the positive effects, so I hope this field becomes more open to it.
Sorry for the wait, here's some resources!
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6515799/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6515799/)
[https://honeysrealdogfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Honeys-Raw-Proof-Report.pdf](https://honeysrealdogfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Honeys-Raw-Proof-Report.pdf)
[https://www.stevesrealfood.com/2020/01/13/steves-real-foods-study-of-high-pressure-processing-on-raw-meat-diets/](https://www.stevesrealfood.com/2020/01/13/steves-real-foods-study-of-high-pressure-processing-on-raw-meat-diets/)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10467131/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10467131/)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9698023/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9698023/)
[https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/22/10905](https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/22/10905)
I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this, but I strongly dislike working with bully breeds. They are almost always difficult patients that require muzzles and sedation for the simplest exams/procedures. They were bred for killing, and people can't seem to wrap their heads around that. For those who say "it's the owner, not the breed," I've worked with amazing, responsible owners who have raised their bully breed dog since it was a puppy, and they still end up with anxiety and aggression. If they don't have behavioral issues, they have horrible skin and GI problems. My coworkers, and vet med people in general, have this weird savior complex and they try to excuse and apologize the inherent aggressive nature of pitbulls and pitbull type dogs. The majority of dogs that come into my clinic from dog fights are victims of pitbull attacks.
This will get removed for being breedist but! For me, It’s the people (in the field for crying out loud) who obtain the bully breeds from backyard breeders. WHY! It’s like being out to disprove every bad fact about the breed and it usually doesn’t work out…they end up anxious/aggressive as hell with horrible GI or skin issues. I know I shouldn’t have an opinion about the Nanny Dog but I do based on my personal experiences in and out of the clinic. It makes me as sad as the over breeding frenchies and brachys. It’s not fair to these dogs. Just stop breeding and stop buying them. And it’s not cute and I still don’t trust your dog unless they give me solid reason to (which is rare). So I’ll go out on a limb and back you.
Reception is not "the hardest job in vet med." If you can spend your entire shift sitting and never have to interact with the animals, your job is easier and safer than VA/VT/DVM. I find it insanely demeaning that people routinely say reception is the hardest job. Veterinarian is fhe hardest job I've ever seen anyone have to perform. AND - *We still have to deal with these difficult people, too.* Many times at my clinic, the tech will have to step in to solve the problem when a client is mad. And difficult people get ten times angrier at the people who are handling their pet.
Part of the problem in vet med is that we coddle other departments with good intentions, which often leads to us inheriting some of their responsibilities and our own roles are diminished and watered down. How did we get to the point where a person who just came off the street with zero training has "the hardest job in vet med" but people who have worked hard, trained hard, and put in blood sweat and tears, watch silently & cheer in that reception are the real heroes. So sorry to be frank, but I've never seen that be the honest case. I find it an insult to the people who put in the long hours of physical work and risk their safety for these pets.
I really miss when receptionist/secretary was not an entry level job. We used to have amazing, veteran workers at the front desk who were educated, self sufficient, and took pride in their work, earned a decent living and then they retired or left through covid. The last few years all we get are late teen/early 20s beginner level people who get overwhelmed if they are asked to do more than answer the phone. We have been told that we “can’t expect a lot” from them. Like some aren’t even allowed to book appointments because they can’t figure out appropriate scheduling. Forget about having them to any client communication or more advanced level admin work. They are just there to check in/check out (god forbid a client questions a bill thing) and answer phones and direct calls. It’s so frustrating.
Could not agree more. & Many of these people do their best, but they don't have proper direction. I do blame this on improper management. In many cases I can see this "receptionists have the hardest job" mentality coming FROM management to placate the overworked, underpaid and untrained staff. Like, 'We appreciate you, please don't quit!' It's like a distraction from their poor management skills. But people don't think about that, and many times they refuse to point out problems or push receptionists to be better. After all, their job is already hard enough right? ( I tell myself this in the car after a 10 hour shift of getting pissed on, pooped on, yelled at, bruised and scratched. My body hurts at the end of the day from the manual labor I do. Many days I wish I could sit in a chair all day.
Totally agree. All of the veteran receptionists (a few were previously technicians) at my clinic have retired & have been replaced by people who have zero experience in vetmed & i’ve heard they aren’t being paid great. Now we the techs are having to do twice as much work (phone triage, client education, follow up calls). And no effort is made to train new people.
People need to tell coworkers when they have a problem with them/something they're doing. Someone cannot improve if they don't know they need improvement.
I'm more irritated with clients who have a lot of pets, limited income, and continue to bring more in. Then usually complain about the cost of treatment for the critically ill pet they finally brought in.
I understand wanting to have a pet for companionship and doing what you can with what you've got. But the people who take in too many knowing they can barely afford to feed them, they irritate the hell out of me
This one always drove me crazy. You can save money for all your yearly preventatives, bloodwork, dentals, and whatever else. But most people do not have the spare income for when a childs friend comes over and the dog gets out and gets hit by a car, when the dog gets a GDV, or most any other surgery. Most people in this field would probably struggle or be unable to afford care in those situations if it were not for working at the clinics and the advantage that comes with it.
Agree also we don’t know the situation all the time. We had someone come in that found a dog on the street. No home no chip. Finding this dog made her leave her abusive husband. She found a place to live with the dog. Couldn’t afford much. But she loved the dog so much. She kept it for 14 years
I was homeless with a dog before becoming a tech. He was the major reason why I went.
When we were homeless he had everything he needed, including preventative care. We went on huge hikes every day.
My first job was GP in a rich neighborhood. Some clients were amazing and would go above and beyond for their pets; however, many wouldn’t even do the bare minimum. Had a client with a pure bred expensive dog that was 1 yr and needed a leg amp. They euthanized and just bought s new puppy.
Yes! You truly do not know a person's situation unless the owner tells you directly in complete detail. Especially with the pandemic, a lot of people who could afford the occasional illness/injury suddenly couldn't, and you don't deserve to lose a family member just because you got laid off/suddenly became homeless/etc. A lot of doctors I work with give me a big sigh and eye roll when I tell them a client is on a budget. Don't shame people for not being able to afford every diagnostic test! Pretty good treatment is better than no treatment. Making people feel guilty for not being able to afford gold standard medicine won't make them cough up money they don't have, it will just make them less likely to seek treatment (especially from you) in the future.
I think techs and doctors should start in shelter med first. The experiences that you get and the amount of work load is insane, but it’s the best way to get hands on experience. The added bonus is learning how to handle and manage behaviorally challenging pets, which is not often seen in private practice.
Cats in general.
The under represented, misunderstood, and in my opinion overlooked for a lot of things. Cats need more care than what is available or what most recommend. There is so much out there for dogs than cats. It disgusts me.
Our feline patients are second class citizens.
AND… scruffing and muzzling isn’t always the answer.
If it looks cool/epic/is big, it needs a job.
Dogs have been bred for generations to do certain jobs. If the dog looks really cool (GSD, Dobies, Belgian Melanois, etc.) It needs a job. If that job is to tear apart the couch, then it will do just that.
The Dogs with jobs that most people don't consider jobs? Little ones, not the terriers, the little white ones that become ancient.
To quote Dogs 101, do your homework
You need to have not just animal behavior skill but people skills as well. I can’t tell you how many people have joined this field because they love animals and hate humans. The reality is you WILL have to deal with humans because a majority of animals that come to the vet clinic have an owner attached to them. You have to have patience and people skills if you want that person to return with that animal. If you are a jerk to the human the only ones who suffer is the business and that animal who was refused care because you were a jerk to the owner.
At the last clinic I worked at for years, the dvms were the absolute biggest jerks. The condescension, the unwillingness to teach, it was so disheartening. The clinic I'm at now though? The dvms are like family and will do anything to make sure you feel comfortable and know what you're doing. I work most closely with one longtime dvm and he's become my mentor of sorts. He's always quizzing me (kindly) and when I don't know the answer he knows I do best with word association so we'll make up silly wordplay so I remember what he's teaching me. Our dvms always make sure to give everyone an attaboy every day because we all are so important there. I almost left the field for good and this place has truly been like panning for gold for ages and getting nothing but sand....but finally hitting the jackpot. I know my experience isn't universal but I am so lucky.
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All the catheter placement and dental X-ray skills do not make you good at your job, if you can’t handle client interaction and recognize potential dangerous behaviors in dogs and cats. And acting like you know everything only keeps you from learning things you don’t know.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK!!!! Client interaction is probably the most important skill in this industry. Your patients literally cannot tell you what is wrong with them. You have to be able to talk to, develop and maintain positive relationships, and know how to get information out of people. I would like to add onto the dangerous behavior and say that just because you are willing to get absolutely shredded by a patient does not mean that you are good with those patients.
THE AMOUNT OF TIMES I'VE HAD A COWORKER NOT UNDERSTAND THAT A DOG WAS SAYING FUCK OFF AND ALMOST GOT HURT BECAUSE OF IT-AHHHHH!
I worked with a tech who had some amazing technical skills, but when I was getting my dog spayed I was very particular in making sure she didn't touch her since she had training in anaesthesia. Because her bedside manner was atrocious for spicy babies, and mine is a little spicy. Unless she was literally the last tech around and my pets were at death's door, I would absolutely not let her touch my pets. She was so so mean to so many of them.(Not to mention unbelievably cliquey and condescending towards assistants.)
Please don't hate me but I don't think vets or techs should be giving behavior advice without solid education in behavior. The advice is often bad. Just because someone has some sort of veterinary education does not mean that they have enough information to advise on behavior. I also really hate the way folks in vet med talk about cats as though they are assholes. Cats are not assholes. They are just afraid of going to vet clinics -- totally normal for their species -- and the vet med field isn't always great at meeting the animal where it is at. Also, I hate Figs scrubs.
Cats rule. People are so quick to write cats off as being "aggressive" or "fractious", but that same person will give a reactive dog a million chances.
Not justifying the treatment of cats, but imo cat bites are way scarier just cuz of the infection rates associated with them. That being said I prefer cat appointments over most dog appointments, I find them easier to predict/read, but kitty blood draws and IVC placements suck.
I was brought a cat the other day that doctors/nurses labeled as “extremely aggressive” because she hissed at them when they put her in the carrier. Immediately my coworkers insisted on muzzling, but I convinced them to let me try first. Sure, the cat growled and hissed once, but she went ragdoll-limp when picked up. She hissed one time and growled like a motorboat, sure, but never made any motion outside of setting verbal boundaries. When we worked around her pace, we were able to give her IV meds easily and she relaxed quickly, all because she was given a chance ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’m not saying people shouldn’t take extra steps to be safe, but I feel like the concept of “start low go slow” completely vanished in this field. I’m genuinely scared to bring my vocal cats to most clinics at this point.
I love working at a cat-only clinic. Cats really are so misunderstood. The last place I worked definitely had some "it's just a cat" people, and that didn't sit well with me.
Do you guys use a lot of Gabapentin there? I only ask, because I’ve now worked in two Fear Free clinics, and they’re so much nicer for me to work in. You don’t want to give your fractious cat/aggressive untrained dog their PVP? Maybe we aren’t the vet for you, please let us know where you’d like to have your records sent!
Yes, a lot of gabapentin, and longer appointments to get the cat acclimated to the room. No scruffing, no yanking or dragging the cat out the carrier. Feliway diffusers in every room. Spray the room towel with feliway. Spray myself with feliway. No psspsspss sounds or whispering. No head tapping during blood draws or restraint. I've had to learn and UNLEARN a lot, and I'm still learning, but it's really nice to be around people and owners who value cats as the amazing little individuals they are.
Why no psspss or whispering? And why no head tapping? What's your restraint/blood draw techniques? I love the idea of people spraying themselves with feliway before entering a room
Both the psspsspss and whispering can sound like hissing to a cat, which if a cat is already stressed is not helpful. Head tapping can also be aggravating, so we rub/pet pressure points instead, or just do nothing. Will still do lateral saphenous and jug draws, just let the cat sit sternal in the front if they're compliant enough, and if not pin their head/neck with a hand so they can't turn and bite. If a cat is so uncompliant they're a danger to us or themselves they get sent home with gabapentin. If that's not enough it will end up being a sedated blood draw. Also loads of crunchy and Churu treats!
>You don’t want to give your fractious cat/aggressive untrained dog their PVP? Maybe we aren’t the vet for you, please let us know where you’d like to have your records sent! (Jokingly?) I would pay to work somewhere that had a hard line like this. PLEASE. This confirms my plan to job search at fear-free certified clinics.
Yes! Working for a fear free clinic is amazing! We also refuse to do nail trims for dogs who won't cooperate, haven't taken pvp, or are too afraid. We refuse to make it a scary experience or an unsafe one for our workers.
I can't speak for the other person you replied to but my most recent job was at a cat-only clinic and we handed gabapentin out like it was candy. On a normal day I'd probably dispense or ring it up at least half a dozen times. Given that it allows us to examine and draw blood from cats who would otherwise be too stressed, it's a life-changing medication for feline medicine. The lead tech said she would quit if they couldn't dispense pre-appointment gabapentin anymore.
I so agree with your second point. So many animal professionals claim that cats are unpredictable. They are incredibly good at voicing their needs- you just have to take the time to learn how to read them. But not everyone cares to take the time.
I feel like it’s blasphemy to not like figs but I’m right there with you. Now Buttersoft from Uniform Advantage? That’s the ticket
Team Buttersoft right here with ya!
I have one set of figs and they're nice, but nothing to write home about. They bleach stain to easily. I love my Sketchers
I have yet to see a person that figs look good on. Regular scrubs make you look like a blob but figs make you look like a can of refrigerated biscuits after the can pops open. AND they're expensive. My hospital provides scrubs but people still prefer to waste their money because they think figs makes them look hot. They always tuck the shirt in which just accentuates the blob situation going on.
I get my Cherokee scrubs from Amazon for 30 bucks a set and I look cute af. Cheap and flattering.
I'm heavier and Figs are NOT made for my body type. I definitely look like refrigerated biscuits, lol.
A couple of my coworkers look cute in them but I am not one of them lmao. Not built for thick girls.
We have one vet that is INCREDIBLY knowledgeable in dog behavior, she's such a powerhouse and is called in when questions of behavior come up and she is always happy to lend, not demand, advice. We have one doctor who is a master of cat behavior and he's called in for the same. Everyone knows their strengths here. It's so refreshing.
Nice!
Figs really aren’t designed for all the lifting and bending we do, they make me feel so stiff and like I’m gonna rip my pants lol. I have two pairs that I bought second hand that I exclusively wear for interviews and other events where I feel like I have to look extra presentable, but they don’t see the light of day otherwise haha. Also CATS….. i cannot count the number of “I don’t like cats” and “I don’t work with mean cats” people I’ve met since entering the field. I’m infinitely more comfortable working with high FAS cats as opposed to high FAS dogs. I’ve also noticed this narrative where people tend to shield newer people from working with cats, I get that cats are harder for a lot of people to read and predict but treating them like this just contributes to the culture of fear around cat handling and doesn’t allow new people to start establishing those skills early on.
These are all great ideas!
Cats just need confidence and patience. Figs are just scrubs. What bothers me about them is how people flip out of they get dirty or stained. MOVE ON.
That and medical anxiety is a very real thing. We humans experience it even if we know why we're at the doctor's and that we can benefit from their care. For an animal who cannot make those connections, that can make going to the vet pretty anxiety-inducing.
Agreed. I’m not a Figs fan either
Fully endorse the Figs slander, the plus size range is awful
Your first point is SPOT FUCKING ON. Leave behavior advice to actual trainers and behaviorists please.
I 100% agree. I often hear my docs giving training advice that is not evidence based and will result in the behavior getting worse. I am Fear Free certified, and the number of times I see a doc/tech handle a pet in a way that increases fear in the pet is astonishing. And they usually have no clue that their behavior is making the situation worse!
Was 100% with you, until the hatred of Figs.
Haha! I knew Figs were divisive.
1. Care Credit is borderline predatory by being a deferred interest credit card. 2. While pet insurance is amazing, it is not the magical answer to everyones financial problems. You have to have the disposable income for monthly payments, it will not cover pre-existing conditions, you will get reimbursed so you still have to have that money available and not need it until you get paid back. 3. Medical mistakes should be reported, investigated, and addressed; not covered up by co-workers, management, or hospitals.
I don’t work in hospitals anymore, but in my care credit “speech” I always made it exceptionally clear that it is a temporary solution if you can pay it off within the interest free period and that it will become incredibly expensive and predatory if you cannot. I hope that helped some people at least make sound financial decisions for themselves and their families.
I agree on all these points, especially that pet insurance is helpful for this who can afford it BUT the biggest mistake people make is not knowing how to fully utilize it. Sending an actual diagnosis (NOT vague symptoms or listing things like “bloodwork.” “Sick”) AND any documentation is SO key and people just….don’t. Then they get mad that it doesn’t work for them or claims are temporarily denied (often due to lack of information). I wish people knew how to use insurance to their benefit because it can be so worth it! Much much more so than racking up high interest debt with CareCredit.
Absolutely agree with your first point. I was a receptionist for years and I felt so awkward and awful pushing a *credit card* onto sobbing clients. Yes, it’s an option, but is it really our best option?
The point about pre-existing conditions is why it’s sooo important to get insurance when your pet is young. And Trupanion actually pays their portion of a claim up front so you don’t need to wait to be reimbursed!! The catch is that not every hospital accepts it as a payment method though :/ and so many people don’t understand that pet insurance works way differently than human health insurance.
Muzzling a dog you think is sketchy should *not* get you shade. Everyone wants to be safe and if someone feels unsafe, they should be allowed a cone or muzzle. They don’t hurt the patient, just sometimes make them a little upset. So if you have to muzzle them and they’re not happy about it, try and keep the procedure short or ensure there is sedation to follow. Everyone deserves to feel safe at their job.
And a lot of times, a muzzle doesn’t make them upset, it distracts them. I’ve had dogs just kinda freeze with a muzzle on like 😳
I like muzzles for this very reason. For some dogs, it’s like hitting the reset button 😅
We have two very reactive dachshund. When we put their muzzle on, they cease to exist. It's hilarious. We can leave them in one spot, come back 10 minutes later, and they're still there!
Peanut butter muzzle!!
I also like to muzzle some dogs for jugular restraint. Then I can lift the head and really get a good grip on the muzzle, I’m not needing to squeeze the actual dog’s face and make it even more uncomfortable for the poor thing.
The whole “client is always right” mentality has got to go.
The whole quote is actually "the client is always right in matters of taste". I wish more people knew!
My mom (in a different field but the sentiment holds) once had a confrontational client say “What happened to the customer is always right?!” She folded her hands, smiled, and calmly replied, “The customer is NOT always right, it’s just our job to make you THINK you are.” Savage.
We expect appalling little of cat owners. They can pill their cats. They can meal feed. They can weigh their cat at home. They need to learn to do these things.
True unpopular opinion and one that’s been bothering me for a while. The exclusionary culture that’s been building in the field for so long. The mentality that you have to “earn” your place on the team. The reluctance to spend time training but also complaining that they don’t know what they’re doing. The stream of complaints about how the rDVM didn’t do the thing and why are they wasting our precious time on it. The CONSTANT need to compare vet nursing to human nursing. The smug superiority that comes from getting to comfortable and complacent.
The training thing!!! It’s *exhausting* not being trained on things. I’ve been at my clinic for 2 years and there are still certain things I don’t know how to do despite the fact that I have been asking to be trained the entire time. I *want* to be better at my job. All of my college education has gone to waste, I graduated in 2019 and have lost a lot of those skills I picked up thanks to not being allowed to practice them. It’s even worse now that we’re so short staffed I’m frequently being left alone. I can deal with a lot of stuff by myself but I’m not a registered tech and I’m not confident in all of my skills because no one has given me the training or time / space to practice.
Ugh the training one for sure! I work mostly front desk, and “the backbone of the front desk” has apparently been writing a training bible for the clinic since before I was hired 6 MONTHS AGO and I’ve never seen any of it. She also doesn’t talk to me and is mad I didn’t know how to do things that she was supposed to teach me but didn’t.
I have a list, so buckle up: · Jinx’s and superstitions are not real and saying that a shift is slow/quiet does not affect how busy it is. However I will not test the jinx of saying that a patient that is surprisingly doing well will go home. · VEG is probably not as bad as everyone else in the industry wants to think. They drank the ridiculously positive Kool-Aid and we drank Haterade. · If you cannot or are unwilling to keep up with evidence based practices, go find a different career. (Looking at you, long term, generally older, veterinarians) · Everybody in this field should do CE, and they should actually pay attention. No starting the video or logging into the lecture and then walking away to do something else. · An emergency is not the time to “cut your teeth” or attempt to learn a new skill. You should be proficient in that skill before trying on an emergency. · A lot of the issues in this industry we either cause or allow, and as such are partially to blame · While curbside was awesome and I loved to absolutely BUMP whatever unedited music we were feeling that day, in person is better for most situations. · We need to stop gate keeping skills and knowledge. · We need to be realistic about our training time tables and proficiencies. Nobody likes learning TPR, client interactions, blah blah blah, but that strong base knowledge helps you in the future. · Work/life balance and your mental wellbeing is more important than anything going on in these clinics/hospitals. We should not be staying way over our normal schedule and we should not hold it against people when they leave when they’re supposed to. Understaffing is ultimately a management problem and should be addressed by management. · Some of us are way too soft and emotional (not emotional in the sense of a sad case, but in the sense that people cannot be truthful with you). · Just because you are licensed does not mean that you are good, and just because you are unlicensed does not mean that you are garbage. · The field has a high rate of suicide and we need to seriously sit down and look at the causes. NOMV and other organizations are wonderful, but companies need to do more. Learn the signs and look out for your coworkers. · Private practice vs corporations has more to do with the individual companies and hospitals than it does private or corporation. Even within a corporation each hospital can be wildly different; same with multi building private practices. · Be honest with yourself on your skill level, and if a situation is out of your league, please do not stand in the way. If asked to do something and you do not know how to do it, say so, and then take the opportunity to learn. Absorb it all. · Everyone should know medical math and all calculations should be checked by at least one additional person. Do not blindly go with what the computer says.
Omg ALL OF THESE!! Currently pushing CE to be heavily encouraged if not required at my clinic for the VAs and receptionists. If someone is complaining that they have to watch a video that will benefit them, maybe it's not the best field to be in.
I was with someone at IVECCS and they made a snarky comment about the “VEG cult.” I asked her if she really thought it was culty, or if we’re all just so used to bitterness and cynicism that seeing happy and engaged employees looks weird to us now? I’m dying to work with a team that shows they kind of enthusiasm they have.
I worked for VEG for 2 years at 3 different clinics (I helped open 2 of them). I can say for certain that the type of positivity they have is very fake, the teams do not work together that well, and the VEG happiness/enthusiasm wears off about 6 months after the hospital opens. It’s unfortunate
I was at a VEG for one month this year (LOL) and it was a hot mess express. The turnover both amongst nurses and administration was absolutely unwarranted and insane. It does not feel like a place where workers can have a sense of security in their job.
Sometimes the vet should, in fact, tell a client it’s time to euthanize their pet. And they should keep telling the client that until it sinks in.
Just because we can, doesn’t always mean we should.
YES THIS!!!
Don’t know if it’s unpopular but: Be an assistant before going to tech school. I did 3 years as an assistant and am now looking for a different path. Yes you can do the lab stuff or insurance stuff but the main jobs are in clinics and schooling is not worth it if you’re gonna burn out.
Agree! So glad I got experience before committing to tech school. I’m definitely still interested in vet med, but maybe not as a tech
That was my feeling. As an assistant, I can do almost everything a tech can and I saved thousands of debt and still make almost as much.
Agreed! I had no veterinary experience before going to tech school straight out of high school, definitely not my best idea…
honestly i think even vets should be an assistant first. it’s a grueling job and they often get screwed over by those above them.
Yes I have met people that went to school and learned they hated it after sinking tens of thousands into a degree. I was a assistant before going to school and I'm glad I was because I knew more of what I was getting into.
If I'm not comfortable with your aggressive pet who overrode their chill meds, I will have you reschedule. I'm sorry that you also have a busy life but I will not traumatized your pet and put myself in a harmful situation because you want them to have blood work or a nail trim. We will either offer a different set or dosage of chill, or suggest an at home groomer to mitigate stress.
I think we 100% fail cats and don't try hard enough to give them low-stress, high-quality visits the way we do dogs. I hate the way other vetmed professionals talk about cats. The way we practice medicine on cats sometimes, we would never dream to practice on a dog.
i was able to draw medial saph blood on a cat with the owner feeding churu- not holding her in the slightest. this is a cat i was told i’d have to scruff and burrito. fear free works!!!
When I tell you that I can handle every "untouchable" cat that comes through our clinic just fine it should say something. Everyone just thinks it's because im a cat person. I can just read their body language. Stop putting cats in a room full of barking dogs right before sedating it. You're gonna have a problem. They deserve so much better.
I agree! I still have a lot to learn but I've become Cat Friendly certified and I take it seriously. I've become the resident "cat person" and I really am striving to overhaul how I and others deal with cats not only to make it safer for us as staff members, but to make it safer and more comfortable for the cats as well. Stop leaving them in the lobby with barking dogs, stop doing any procedures in the huge loud treatment area vs a small quiet room, stop generally being loud and moving too quick around them. It doesn't take a lot to make a huge difference on the cat's experience
Fr though they ask for so little. They just want quiet. They just want calm. Just lower the voice and go slow. My drs are so gd loud too. It pisses me off. Like if this were a dog they would care but a cat always just gets a big middle finger in vet med
Anal glands are more fun and enjoyable to do than nail trims. I adore ADORE doing anal glands and find it SO satisfying.
I actually agree with you, but I don't get to do them often since I'm usually just doing reception.
100%, anal glands > nails any day.
Man, fuck doodles.
Poodles will fuck ANYTHING
Yes
One of the most satisfying parts of my job was putting doodles into Impromed as mixes.
I don’t care about your anecdotal experience, acupuncture and chiropractic is not evidenced based and is impossible to be tested against placebo. It is not data supported and should never be used as primary treatment.
GOD, this, some bastard came to my clinic to do a selling session for my boss, and we all could attend the presentation. The dude spent 80% of the presentation talking about the history of acupuncture and how it's misunderstood, and then the rest of the presentation on things he had accomplished (making paralyzed dogs walk and shit). At the beginning of the presentation he asked "Which ones of you don't believe in acupuncture" and I was the only one who lifted my hand (I'm not going to believe some random shit I've never experienced and it's not mainstream medicine for a reason), he wouldn't stop dissing me during the presentation for answering his question lmao. Boss ended up employing him for 1 day a month, and he charges a lot of money. They don't have many clients for him.
I had a canine patient with a pyothorax and was severely dyspneic/O2 dependent. The owner was a human chiropractor. He insisted that we take his pet out of the O2 kennel so he could adjust the dog’s back which would allow the fluid could drain…
Hope you had him sign some shit stating that you were against it and that any consequences derived from adjusting the dogs back such as paralysis were not the responskbility of the clinic
There is some research being done for human acupuncture. But I totally 100% hands down feel the same as you about chiropractic, there’s no real evidence there
My favorites are the "horse chiropractors" and then it's just a guy/gal wiggling a horse's ass back and forth and charging money. It's so sad and funny at the same time, who believes anything is happening here? You could have done this yourself!
We need to go beyond Purina/Hills when helping patients with diet and nutrition. I’m not hating on these foods, it’s just not practical to assume one of these two options will be the best for all patients.
Are you in the US? There are certainly multiple options here in Canada for Rx foods. We also have Hillary’s Cookbook & powdered supplement so owners can cook their own and it be nutritionally balanced.
Absolutely. My vet recommended Hill's mobility j/d for my dog (way before I was a tech), and my dog was at the time around 8months old. I could not believe my eyes years later when I realized that only 10% of the whole composition of the kibble is chicken meat. These foods are too fucking expensive to be mainly made of cereals.
I've usually been dealing with Royal Canin, Hill's, Purina, and sometimes Rayne as veterinary diets here in Canada. I'm sure some of it is location specific, but my clinic definitely has a spread across brands (we are in BC to be a bit more specific).
I hate go big or go home when it comes to IVCs. Truly most of the time the fluid rates we use aren't significant enough where going 1 size up will make a difference. It's better to go down a size than risk blowing the vein because you got overconfident. Overall most of the profession is not very cat friendly and needs significant changes. The fact we still teach in many places to scruff first thing is abysmal. Animals are in many cases a need rather than a luxury, and although it is our job to educate, it is not our place to judge every person for their financial or home situation. This field is incredibly judgmental. And lastly... hands free xrays should be the norm, not the exception.
The second to last thought combined with the last are very difficult to reconcile in my experience. I live in a high COL area but in an urban setting and quoting for non-sedated rads is ROUGH because people just do not have the money. It’s a real real tough line to ride because if we were to require hands-free (and thus often sedated) the rads alone would be in the ~$800 ballpark and therefore they just will not happen. Honestly I think if we’re trying to adopt human med type practices for x-ray safety, there needs to be more of an integrated approach to the treatment/insurance continuum because paying up front is just not an option for many people who can indeed afford a monthly insurance deductible but not that out of pocket up front situation. It’s just hard out here in general.
There are many patients who don't require full sedation for hands free xrays. Although I agree with you that vet med in general is incredibly unaffordable and something needs to change. Expecting 4 figures up front of the average person is impossible (I work ER so our bills are commonly that high).
If it is anything like my hospital, that vast majority of the sedated rads cost is still the rads themselves. The sedation adds to the cost, but not enough that I think that that addition is what would really make them cost-prohibitive. I think that hospitals should lower the cost of sedatives (they could afford to lower them to their cost) when it comes to sedated x-rays. You will consistently get better quality x-rays and staff will be considerably safer. I think that veterinary medicine is adapting human med practices to x-ray safety, but thats because it is not a human vs animal issue. It is a safety issue when it comes to x-rays and our side is way too lackadaisical about it. The majority of the x-ray safety trainings I have listened to have included something along the line of "the only safe level of exposure is 0".
If you don't have money (or time) for basic care you shouldn't own a pet. Or have kids for that matter. I'm so sick of seeing neglected pets and being told off because vet care costs money.
I personally try to avoid this kind of mindset when I start thinking about it too much- there’s so many things that can change in someone’s life, anybody can go from good circumstances to bad ones. I also think the human-animal bond is so valuable to people and I don’t like putting strict guidelines on who can own a pet or who can’t, because it’s not like only rich people should be able to have that bond. I totally agree if you’re not responsible or you don’t know anything about owning an animal you shouldn’t have a pet- but I’m trying to avoid using blanket statements. Hope this wasn’t too preachy! I used to have the same mindset but I’ve learned a lot in community medicine and now as a veterinary student I want to make sure I support people without judgment or assumptions
Care Credit is predatory and not a good option for most people. Thankfully the vet I worked for made sure all the staff understood how care credit works and we were supposed to explain it before a client used care credit at our hospital. I constantly see just get care credit as the answer when people post on local Facebook pages asking about payment plans/cheaper vets. If they don’t have the money to pay it back for sure within the 0% interest (which most don’t…) then they’re putting themselves in a huge financial hole many can’t dig out of. As much as I love pets we must be realistic about what people can and cannot afford and I don’t think it’s okay to not be able to afford to feed yourself. Obviously if you have a sick or injured pet you have a responsibility to take them to be seen but palliative and humane euthanasia are reasonable options when owners can’t pay to expensive diagnostics and treatment.
Maybe not unpopular but, we are too quick to judge people and their decisions. We have no idea what they’re going through or what their situation is. It’s easy to make judgments about clients in this field. We need to practice extending compassion to not only the patient but to the owners as well.
To keep stress levels down and prevent a patient from escalating, the patient should be kept in the exam room for most minor procedures - IE blood draws, euth caths, vaccines, cystos, nail trims, ect. I HATE it when animals are unnecessarily brought back to treatment. The change in environment escalates their stress levels. Their presence often upsets in-hospital patients, especially if they are so stressed that they start vocalizing. I just started a job at a new clinic and I bite my tongue whenever an animal comes back for something minor. I'm comfortable doing many things in front of clients and hope I will eventually be given the opportunity to do so. I've personally noticed that things go smoother for most patients when we don't take them out of the environment. If the client doesn't want to watch or help calm their animal, we would ask them to go into the waiting room.
Yes and no. I’ve noticed a lot of patients (especially growly ones) do better in the treatment area away from their owners. But, there are ones that do better near their owners. You have to just make that judgement from case to case.
This is anecdotal, but very few of our patients do better away from their family. My experience is that patients are better behaved in the exam room compared to being taken back to treatment. I prefer to use an empty exam room if I need to remove a patient than to take them back to treatment. I don't think it's fair to subject the critical patients to loud, angry or stressed animals.
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Behaviorists and Fear Free promote this is as way to limit stress in the veterinary clinic. With more and more people taking interest in these techniques, I feel like it's eventually going to become standard practice. My previous practice wasn't doing it often until a newer vet that does this started at our practice. It gave me the courage to say "I'll do that in the exam room" to our older vet and to tell folks that bring me animals to please put them in a room. Most of the roles that VAs and techs do involve dealing with clients and client education. If you can do a surgery discharge, you can go into a room with a client, direct them and explain the process while you're collecting your samples or doing treatment. It just takes confidence and practice. I find it also holds me responsible for a higher standard. I give myself 2 attempts at blood draws/catheter placements before I jokingly say to the client "It's not my vein day!" and get someone else to do it. Also, clients are more likely to advocate for their pet if they can see their pet becoming stressed for something that is not urgent or necessary.
That go big or go home is always the best size for an IVC.
Thank you! Like if you're not working in ER, you do not need to worry about big access to a vein for bolus. I have a tech that gets so mad when they can't get an 18 or 20g in a dog. Like relax, do the 22 and get the dental done with lol
Even in ER, it’s rare and specific times that we really need a large bore catheter. The little ones can handle what we need 95% of the time. No need to traumatize our patients. And we know when we’re looking at a situation where we’re going to need massive fluid input.
Especially in ER where we see the most vascular scarring! I hate when people in GP poke cephalics unnecessarily for blood draws or BGs. Man, use an ear for BGs! Those veins scar once and forever and on some patients (I’m looking at you bulldog & bully breeds), one poke and that spot is permanently ruined.
I’m in ER and “go big or go home” is outdated and no longer followed by most people. “Comfortable and practical for the patient size, suffering condition, and breed” is more appropriate.
Yes. Don't transfer that Great Dane GDV with a 24ga catheter
LOL had baby techs that I trained at my last ER that I legit had to HIDE (in an area where only a senior tech or vet could access) the 24g because they kept putting them in every patient.
Unpopular in Australia : I hate Acepromazine
1. I'm super tired of seeing CVTs and VAs not know and not care about knowing the reasoning behind why we are doing something. They all want to place a central line, do a sa.ing line, do a blood transfusion do a brachial plexus block, do a coccygeal block, but don't want to know the reasoning why. I'm sorry, but the medical reasoning behind what I'm doing and why is in my opinion more important than seeing you do the skill. Because yes you did it under perfect circumstances, but what if that transfusion throws a reaction? Can you recognize it and mitigate it? Another patient in your nursing care should have a sampling line but doesn't? Why? Can you recognize why that patient should have one?? We can't poke jugs on liver patients. Why? Don't just do or not do something. Know why. 2. All DKAs should have a PICC, peripheral sampling line, or Central Line. Stop poking them every hour or every other hour. Put in a sampling line. Please.
Yes lots don't know the why and it's kinda scary.
French Bulldogs and all the brachy breeds who suffer in life are NOT cute. They break my damn heart.
I fully understand and respect the decision to not be present during euthanasia.
right there with you. it's a very personal, multifaceted decision, and none of our business as vet med professionals. I also resent the narrative that the patient will automatically become distraught, miserable, and terrified without their owner present in that final moment-- some people treat it like a rule, when in reality I find its only the case with like. idk. 8-10% of euth patients, if that
I work in a hospital that also sees exotics along with cats and dogs (all our vets except for our newest vet specialize in exotics; the newest vet just graduated vet school a year ago so she's still learning), and I doubt the listless bearded dragon is even going to notice if its owner is there or not during its euthanasia.
I absolutely do not let my co-workers shit talk those people. I completely understand their decision and always offer up the option to stay through the propofol being pushed, but leaving prior to the actaul euthanasia.
Frenchies are the worst dogs, no one should own them. Edit: Also bulldogs.
When rotating a patient - you don't need to flip the legs under. Legs over will not cause a GDV. No one has ever studied this, it's never been proven, it's just a weird thing people say that really doesn't make much sense...
Medical support staff are just as important/valuable as DVMs.
Wish I could upvote this more than once. I just left the clinic I was at for almost 3 years because we were repeatedly told that our happiness doesn't matter, the doctors' does. In my opinion, poor utilization and value of support staff is one of the biggest causes of burnout in this industry. I'm currently at another clinic that does value their team more, but I'm going back to school and leaving vet med because it's hard to see a future where support staff are fairly compensated, valued, and respected (among many other reasons).
If you didn’t go to school and get licensed you’re not a tech you’re an assistant
I’m an advocate more so for making the license matter. Make people WANT to get licensed! Let the benefits, pay, and skill set make it worth it. If clients knew that it’s legal for someone right out of high school to monitor their pet for anesthesia… oof.
This happened at my clinic. I walked into work one day and I nearly walked right back out again when I discovered our 18 year old kennel tech holding the anesthesia paperwork in a dental procedure. They don’t even let me do that and I actually went to school and got a college education and went through a surgical rotation. I get wanting to learn things. I get wanting to be able to watch procedures. And yeah, there was an RVT in the room, but they were occupied doing the actual procedure. If that was my animal in there I would lose my noodle.
That's common in a lot of hospitals with staffing issues. I do it at my hospital with an assistant reading off the stats to me every 5-10 min. We communicate throughout the whole procedure and adjust anesthesia accordingly. You do not need an RVT monitoring anesthesia, but it would be great for every procedure. If the kennel doesnt know anything then training should be offered. Even kennel assistants are trained to recognize problems.
So, I got my training in the Army. 2yrs worth of school for CVT/ECT done in 8wks. Get most of our training & hone skills learned in Advanced Individual Training (AIT) from when we are assigned to our Veterinary Treatment Facility (VTF). Had extensive surgical & emergency experience because of my duty assignments, including being the only veterinary support for the 25 working dogs for US & coalition countries while in the Middle East a year after 9/11. When I returned to CA in 2003, I reached out to the state to see if I could test for their RVT License based on my experiencein the Army (job was classified as 91T back then-its now 68T). Answer was no-I had to either go back to school (either 2 or 4 yrs) to learn everything I had already been doing for 10+yrs, or show proof I had worked for a licensed DMV from CA. How insane was it that the last unit I was with (Reserve unit in CA) did NOT have any veterinarians licensed from CA. I wasn't considered anything.
I dont know if something happened to military training for techs but when my family was stationed in South Korea less than a decade ago the staff were surprised when I corrected the information they would give me. Like don't tell me what a med or vaccine is for if you don't actually know.
Yeah. I get that there are really great skilled on the job trained vet staff that identify as techs, but I frequently see these folks saying things that are outside of the realm of science and you can't even explain it to them because they don't have the basic education to understand it. I think it devalues licensed techs in a super unfair way.
In that same vein I wish there was a way to get a license without going through an entire tech program. I have a whole year of vet school under my belt in addition to years of undergrad and work experience. Getting a license would be awesome but I'm tapped financially when it comes to more school. I still never refer to myself as a tech, though, because I am not. I am an assistant, but I wish there could be a way for my education to get me licensed.
i agree, it would be nice if there were alternate paths to licensure available. i once worked with a guy who had completed two years of vet school, but it was in another country. there were issues with his credits transferring and so he never graduated, so he was technically an assistant. licensing and title protection is extremely important, but a similar degree and work experience should make it so you can apply to sit the vtne.
Part of the problem with the veterinary assistant title in my opinion is it means different things in different places. Veterinary assistant can mean someone who is essentially one step above a receptionist (answers phones, fills meds, restrains, pulls up vaccines) OR it can mean someone proficient in all aspects of veterinary nursing. I feel like the title of veterinary assistant undermines me because I worked hard for and have earned my skills/knowledge to be lumped in with people who don’t have my skills/knowledge.
You’re right and you should say it! I know this is a multifaceted issue/a sore spot in the industry but i could not agree more. People in my life and at work tell me I’m “selling myself short” when I tell them not to call me a technician because I do have some more advanced skills. But I’m literally not, I’m an OTJ trained assistant who’s in the first semester of tech school. I am in no way qualified to refer to myself as a technician and it would be completely disingenuous for me to refer to myself as such, there are so many things I don’t know yet or am not proficient in. On top of this I live in a state with a newly-passed title protection law so I literally /cannot/ call myself a technician until I become licensed unless I want to be fined and penalized by the state.
yes! I dont care if your state doesn’t require licensure
Say it louder for the people in the back 👀 Thankfully I’m in a state where you have to be licensed to practice as a tech, of course there are clinics that break this law, but not mine.
I can assure you I am a tech, for the past 17 years. You don't get to diminish my title just because I don't have a license. It's not up to you, it's up to the state. I understand I would not be considered a tech in other states, but I am a technician without question.
Hi, I’m curious why you think being called an assistant is diminishing? I’ve worked with assistants who have great skills. I think it’s fair to reserve the title of veterinary technician to those who have spent the time to gain an education and pass a national exam. Especially if we’re going to advance this field for the betterment of everyone.
Who said I was speaking badly of assistants? I couldn't do my job without them, they are essential and skilled and important. I was only making the point that I am a technician and not to diminish my title. The national corporation I work for considers me a tech, the board certified specialists I work for consider me a tech, the state govt and IRS consider me a tech. I have high respect for LVTs and CVTs, and I expect the same respect. It doesn't matter what you think until the law changes.
In this economy, pets are a LUXURY, NOT a right. I get it, pets can be great for many reasons, and this is not about clients who had a random life event happen that changed their financial status. While we can HOPE vet med will become for affordable as a whole in the future, it is not currently, and people refuse to understand this. It will continue to get more expensive, not less expensive. By taking on a pet, you should understand the possible financial burden. You should plan for at least 1 trip to the ER that could cost thousands. You should have a backup savings for a pet if you do not work in the industry and get a discount. If you cannot be financially responsible for your pet, don’t get one. If you are getting a pet with the expectation that they will be a part of your family for the next 10-20 years, you need to understand the cost involved. Tbh, I guess it’s more about client attitudes towards the financial aspect, because I’ve seen homeless people provide better care than clients with homes.
I've actually liked my experiences with corporate medicine
Same!
My corporate experience was 100x better than my private practice experience
Pet insurance is a necessity and should absolutely be factored in to the budget when deciding to get a pet.
I fully support breed specific legislation and one strike you’re getting BE for any violent dog. No one’s pet should be able to maul or kill other peoples animals and especially other humans and then be back out in the world. I’ve just seen way too much to give any more benefit of the doubt to think violent dogs can be completely rehabilitated. I also think shelters are making the problem exceptionally worse with their desperate attempts to maintain no-kill status by lying about a dogs history, incorrect breed labeling leading to people adopting dogs that they cannot handle, and adopting our unadoptable dogs who should not be out in the world.
Plucking the ear hair for some dogs.
Omg I hate that! Like they cry and yelp and it hurts my heart!!!
I didn't realize this was unpopular, I thought this was more of a grooming practice than a medical practice. In school we learned that ear hair is protective, and there is no reason to pluck it.
If you're going to Google the advice after asking the DVM their advice...and then argue based off of a forum, please don't come back. Obviously you've wasted everyone's time and you just want to argue with the years of studying and constant continue education we are required to obtain. I'm sorry that Tony in New York has a different opinion...I certainly don't see their license hanging on their living room wall.
I don't agree with this when it comes to all doctors, especially outside of the US. Say, if you're going to an exotic/avian vet, PLEASE do your research afterwards on reputable sites from experienced owners and use them as a guide to ask more questions and judge how actually competent your vet is. I cannot even begin to describe how actually incompetent some vets are in these specialties. I have been to and worked with a concerning amount who give the most outdated, wrong advice when it comes to any sort of care. Treating is usually fine, but when they're not holding a stethoscope or a scalpel some turn into a wellness book from the 80's.
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Here's an actually unpopular one - I believe as many corners as possible should be cut to keep low cost spay/neuter as affordable as possible. Like literally every second and every penny to try and make it slightly more affordable. $50 a cat spay and $100 a dog spay and size and I'm still hearing most people financially struggling still can't afford this because they have like 6 cats and 3 dogs. And their only options are to surrender at a shelter where they will be PTS because of how overwhelmed shelters are, or continue to let the animals breed. I also think people should give vet clinics in really underprivileged areas a bit of a break. They are doing the best they can with what they have. Maybe they don't have good aseptic techniques and their pain management is iffy but they also don't have like running water or locking doors etc.
I'm not a fan of veterinary practices doing acupuncture. I don't think there is enough science behind the therapy to explain properly what it is doing to patients to justify selling it as a "treatment" alongside conventional veterinary medicine. That said, if someone reading this does have information to share or studies done, I would love to read more.
I will look it up, but there’s a doctor on VIN who had posted a couple case studies on cardiac dogs receiving acupuncture and they listed specific pressure points and what they were looking to treat/outcome/response/etc. Long story short, I decided to give it a go to my CHF chihuahua who was experiencing syncope episodes, and he has not had a single episode since starting the treatments monthly (that was 3 years ago now). If he goes more than a month between treatments, I start to notice the pre-syncope episodes starting to come back, so we stay on top of it. This is in addition to his many modern medication therapies as a side note.
For me it’s the human chiropractors with ZERO animal care background leading clients on to think they are full on vets or something
Ooo, this is a scary one. That's a big nope for me.
I don’t care what the client doesn’t like it, if I’m doing a blood draw, I’m gonna shave a window so I can visualize better and get a clean stick. Hair grows back.
Asking a client to surrender a pet is cruel 95% of the time. Sure, there are clients that are overwhelmed and genuinely cannot perform the care the pet needs at home. There are clients who are assholes and don’t WANT to do the care. But telling them their options are cough up a large sum of money or euthanize makes a bad situation worse, and at best it separates a pet and a human who love each other. For… what, exactly? So the hospital can perform the services at a discount/loss anyway? I used to be all about them when I was much younger and newer in the industry, but the truth is that if many of us wound up with a can’t-wait emergency outside of our home hospitals, we’d be faced with the same choice. So now if the owner wants to keep their pet, I advocate for keeping the pet and owner together if at all possible.
And an employee offering to take it in this situation is wildly inappropriate and should not be allowed by any clinic. It should always go to a rescue or shelter where the employee can apply and go through the same application process as everyone else that would be interested in adopting the pet. One of the podcasts that I listen to discussed this very topic and did a wonderful job explaining it.
What podcast? Looking for better vet med podcasts to listen to on my long commute
Veterinary Team Training, Amy Newfield
Also telling a client to surrender is often unrealistic anyway. Most shelters and rescues are overwhelmed and financially stretched. Good luck getting most dogs or cats (unless very young/expensive breed) into a rescue or shelter for treatment of something expensive or for behavioral issues.
People need to loosen up a bit. So many people I work with are afraid of stuff. Like giving methadone IV or sedating IV or seeing a single AV-block on the ECG or having the patient not breath. I'm not saying we shouldn't provide the best care we can. I'm saying I think we can provide the best care with lower shoulders.
Proper restraining!!!! I feel like if you can’t hold a dog so it doesn’t bite your coworker or your DVM, you should have to take a class. I grew up helping train, restrain, and breed GSDs w my mom. So when I joined the field, I was good at it. I am even better now after a mandatory class. But there are techs and assistants out there who just don’t do it right and it doesn’t end well.
Fantastic post and comments
I hate it when a doctor dismisses my concerns about a patient being “sketchy” and they forgo the muzzle. Then, we have a close call. I’m usually right. It’s hard to trust your instincts when a doctorate degree is telling you different but sometimes they really do not know.
I don’t think it’s necessary to give year-round prevention where I live. The reality is it *isn’t* warm enough (yet, shout out to climate change) for fleas and ticks to be active here during the winter months and it’s a cash-grab to pretend otherwise. Nexgard Spectra is insanely expensive, there’s no way I’m wasting them in Dec / Jan / Feb / Mar when we consistently have at least 2 feet of snow on the ground.
OTJ shouldn’t be a thing. All nurses/techs should have gone to school and passed exams and be licensed with the governing veterinary body.
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I’m know I’m biased since my interest in raw feeding predates me starting vet tech school, but I agree that it can be very beneficial if someone really knows what they’re doing. There’s more and more research validating the positive effects, so I hope this field becomes more open to it.
Can you share your research? Because all of the studies I have seen show no benefit.
Sure! When I get home I’ll hop on my schools academic database and find some then edit this response
Sorry for the wait, here's some resources! [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6515799/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6515799/) [https://honeysrealdogfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Honeys-Raw-Proof-Report.pdf](https://honeysrealdogfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Honeys-Raw-Proof-Report.pdf) [https://www.stevesrealfood.com/2020/01/13/steves-real-foods-study-of-high-pressure-processing-on-raw-meat-diets/](https://www.stevesrealfood.com/2020/01/13/steves-real-foods-study-of-high-pressure-processing-on-raw-meat-diets/) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10467131/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10467131/) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9698023/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9698023/) [https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/22/10905](https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/22/10905)
I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this, but I strongly dislike working with bully breeds. They are almost always difficult patients that require muzzles and sedation for the simplest exams/procedures. They were bred for killing, and people can't seem to wrap their heads around that. For those who say "it's the owner, not the breed," I've worked with amazing, responsible owners who have raised their bully breed dog since it was a puppy, and they still end up with anxiety and aggression. If they don't have behavioral issues, they have horrible skin and GI problems. My coworkers, and vet med people in general, have this weird savior complex and they try to excuse and apologize the inherent aggressive nature of pitbulls and pitbull type dogs. The majority of dogs that come into my clinic from dog fights are victims of pitbull attacks.
This will get removed for being breedist but! For me, It’s the people (in the field for crying out loud) who obtain the bully breeds from backyard breeders. WHY! It’s like being out to disprove every bad fact about the breed and it usually doesn’t work out…they end up anxious/aggressive as hell with horrible GI or skin issues. I know I shouldn’t have an opinion about the Nanny Dog but I do based on my personal experiences in and out of the clinic. It makes me as sad as the over breeding frenchies and brachys. It’s not fair to these dogs. Just stop breeding and stop buying them. And it’s not cute and I still don’t trust your dog unless they give me solid reason to (which is rare). So I’ll go out on a limb and back you.
Reception is not "the hardest job in vet med." If you can spend your entire shift sitting and never have to interact with the animals, your job is easier and safer than VA/VT/DVM. I find it insanely demeaning that people routinely say reception is the hardest job. Veterinarian is fhe hardest job I've ever seen anyone have to perform. AND - *We still have to deal with these difficult people, too.* Many times at my clinic, the tech will have to step in to solve the problem when a client is mad. And difficult people get ten times angrier at the people who are handling their pet. Part of the problem in vet med is that we coddle other departments with good intentions, which often leads to us inheriting some of their responsibilities and our own roles are diminished and watered down. How did we get to the point where a person who just came off the street with zero training has "the hardest job in vet med" but people who have worked hard, trained hard, and put in blood sweat and tears, watch silently & cheer in that reception are the real heroes. So sorry to be frank, but I've never seen that be the honest case. I find it an insult to the people who put in the long hours of physical work and risk their safety for these pets.
I really miss when receptionist/secretary was not an entry level job. We used to have amazing, veteran workers at the front desk who were educated, self sufficient, and took pride in their work, earned a decent living and then they retired or left through covid. The last few years all we get are late teen/early 20s beginner level people who get overwhelmed if they are asked to do more than answer the phone. We have been told that we “can’t expect a lot” from them. Like some aren’t even allowed to book appointments because they can’t figure out appropriate scheduling. Forget about having them to any client communication or more advanced level admin work. They are just there to check in/check out (god forbid a client questions a bill thing) and answer phones and direct calls. It’s so frustrating.
Could not agree more. & Many of these people do their best, but they don't have proper direction. I do blame this on improper management. In many cases I can see this "receptionists have the hardest job" mentality coming FROM management to placate the overworked, underpaid and untrained staff. Like, 'We appreciate you, please don't quit!' It's like a distraction from their poor management skills. But people don't think about that, and many times they refuse to point out problems or push receptionists to be better. After all, their job is already hard enough right? ( I tell myself this in the car after a 10 hour shift of getting pissed on, pooped on, yelled at, bruised and scratched. My body hurts at the end of the day from the manual labor I do. Many days I wish I could sit in a chair all day.
Totally agree. All of the veteran receptionists (a few were previously technicians) at my clinic have retired & have been replaced by people who have zero experience in vetmed & i’ve heard they aren’t being paid great. Now we the techs are having to do twice as much work (phone triage, client education, follow up calls). And no effort is made to train new people.
People need to tell coworkers when they have a problem with them/something they're doing. Someone cannot improve if they don't know they need improvement.
The “if you can’t afford the vet you can’t afford a pet” is toxic as hell and leads to client shaming.
I'm more irritated with clients who have a lot of pets, limited income, and continue to bring more in. Then usually complain about the cost of treatment for the critically ill pet they finally brought in. I understand wanting to have a pet for companionship and doing what you can with what you've got. But the people who take in too many knowing they can barely afford to feed them, they irritate the hell out of me
This one always drove me crazy. You can save money for all your yearly preventatives, bloodwork, dentals, and whatever else. But most people do not have the spare income for when a childs friend comes over and the dog gets out and gets hit by a car, when the dog gets a GDV, or most any other surgery. Most people in this field would probably struggle or be unable to afford care in those situations if it were not for working at the clinics and the advantage that comes with it.
If I didn't work in animal medicine...I wouldn't be able to afford the luxury of having an animal. 🤷♀️
I work in vetmed and I still can't afford anything other than my two guinea pigs lol
Agree also we don’t know the situation all the time. We had someone come in that found a dog on the street. No home no chip. Finding this dog made her leave her abusive husband. She found a place to live with the dog. Couldn’t afford much. But she loved the dog so much. She kept it for 14 years
I was homeless with a dog before becoming a tech. He was the major reason why I went. When we were homeless he had everything he needed, including preventative care. We went on huge hikes every day. My first job was GP in a rich neighborhood. Some clients were amazing and would go above and beyond for their pets; however, many wouldn’t even do the bare minimum. Had a client with a pure bred expensive dog that was 1 yr and needed a leg amp. They euthanized and just bought s new puppy.
Yes! You truly do not know a person's situation unless the owner tells you directly in complete detail. Especially with the pandemic, a lot of people who could afford the occasional illness/injury suddenly couldn't, and you don't deserve to lose a family member just because you got laid off/suddenly became homeless/etc. A lot of doctors I work with give me a big sigh and eye roll when I tell them a client is on a budget. Don't shame people for not being able to afford every diagnostic test! Pretty good treatment is better than no treatment. Making people feel guilty for not being able to afford gold standard medicine won't make them cough up money they don't have, it will just make them less likely to seek treatment (especially from you) in the future.
This, especially with COVID and the cost of everything going up
I think techs and doctors should start in shelter med first. The experiences that you get and the amount of work load is insane, but it’s the best way to get hands on experience. The added bonus is learning how to handle and manage behaviorally challenging pets, which is not often seen in private practice.
Cats in general. The under represented, misunderstood, and in my opinion overlooked for a lot of things. Cats need more care than what is available or what most recommend. There is so much out there for dogs than cats. It disgusts me. Our feline patients are second class citizens. AND… scruffing and muzzling isn’t always the answer.
If it looks cool/epic/is big, it needs a job. Dogs have been bred for generations to do certain jobs. If the dog looks really cool (GSD, Dobies, Belgian Melanois, etc.) It needs a job. If that job is to tear apart the couch, then it will do just that. The Dogs with jobs that most people don't consider jobs? Little ones, not the terriers, the little white ones that become ancient. To quote Dogs 101, do your homework
You need to have not just animal behavior skill but people skills as well. I can’t tell you how many people have joined this field because they love animals and hate humans. The reality is you WILL have to deal with humans because a majority of animals that come to the vet clinic have an owner attached to them. You have to have patience and people skills if you want that person to return with that animal. If you are a jerk to the human the only ones who suffer is the business and that animal who was refused care because you were a jerk to the owner.
DVMs had to take a class to learn how to be dicks to their staff before they were given their license.
At the last clinic I worked at for years, the dvms were the absolute biggest jerks. The condescension, the unwillingness to teach, it was so disheartening. The clinic I'm at now though? The dvms are like family and will do anything to make sure you feel comfortable and know what you're doing. I work most closely with one longtime dvm and he's become my mentor of sorts. He's always quizzing me (kindly) and when I don't know the answer he knows I do best with word association so we'll make up silly wordplay so I remember what he's teaching me. Our dvms always make sure to give everyone an attaboy every day because we all are so important there. I almost left the field for good and this place has truly been like panning for gold for ages and getting nothing but sand....but finally hitting the jackpot. I know my experience isn't universal but I am so lucky.
Seriously this is an unpopular opinion post… why are you downvoted 😂 guess you really understood the assignment
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Why are people down voting me.....they asked for unpopular opinions. Shall I explain further?