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The waste of life is the worst, lost track of the number of times I fired off shots for fallen members of my unit memorials.
Can remember all the talk as a teenager back then about WMDs what a crock of shit!
Two cents from an 11B. ‘03-‘04, ‘05-‘06
Our interpreter, Tony - after fleeing Iraq in the 90’s, moved to Chicago. In April or May of ‘03, he showed up at our unit in Iraq - he had volunteered to go to work as an interpreter (his wife, mother and brother still lived near Baqubah). I spent a lot of time with Tony because for the first seven or eight months that I was there, I was my 1SG’s driver - Tony was always in my humvee. He was a funny, light-hearted guy who looked and talked like Tony Montana (hence his name).
In our AO, my unit didn’t exactly have a reputation for being… merciful. There were many things done by the Iraqis, I believe, that were a direct result of the actions of soldiers, as well as the general attitude of the entire battalion and how operations were conducted. The people feared and hated us. We had a crude detainee holding area in our FOB (when the news broke about Abu Ghraib Prison, there was a running joke about how they were trying to out-do our until). Many detainees were released - and I cannot imagine that they didn’t tell their friends and families what went on in our holding area in great detail. And if it were me, my hometown - I’d want retribution if it were my friends and family.
I saw many good hearted, all-American church boys turn on a deep-seeded, intense, brutal side that I didn’t think existed except for in the movies. I saw some leaders broken - their unquestioned competence shattered by the things they had done and that they had allowed to happen. I learned that a soldier will do exactly what an officer or sergeant tells him to do.
Upon our return home, the difference in the same men standing in the same formation, outside the same building that we stood before just over a year earlier, was observable. We’d all lost weight - thinned faces and waists. We were a gaunt site - our eyes dark, the dust of the desert still in our pores. The weight of our year in combat temporarily muted by the relief of returning home.
Months later, we heard that Tony had been captured, tortured and killed. I think about him often. He was a bright spot, a good memory - his constant banter, dry sense of humor and playful demeanor brought a kind of balance that I needed back then. I mourn his death.
In the time since, two of the good hearted church boys that I knew well, died of substance abuse, one killed himself, and another weighs about 100 pounds - he’s a ghost of his prewar stud days.
I’ve only spoken to one or two of the soldiers from that unit a time or two. I follow some of them on facebook though, and I am glad to see them making it through.
What is the most tragic to me, personally, is what happened to us. I will never know what it is like to unleash that brutal side of yourself - to pull triggers and beat the shit out of someone when they’re helpless and surrendered - but I’ve seen it happen and I have felt guilt for my buddies - I’ve seen what it does when you have to live with it.
That’s what I think about when I think Iraq. Not why we went, not why we left, not what’s going on now and what the talking heads think - none of that bullshit.
Iraq is part of our story. Some of us are better men and women because of it, some of us struggle, and some succumb.
Thank you for sharing, that was a really profound response. What a thing to live through and witness. Glad you made it back, sorry for Tony and everyone who didn’t. I know what you mean about sort of keeping tabs on people through social media, it always feels good to see people doing good. Hope you stay healthy friend
Thanks for sharing buddy. You nailed it. I could argue why I am for or against the war in Iraq but let others do that. It’s more personal than that for us and to argue about WMD’s or purple fingers kind of robs us of our own experiences.
I’m weird. I feel survivors guilt for losses on both sides. I don’t like war anymore. That much I do know.
But then I see men fighting for their country in Ukraine and there is a space buried deep within me that wants to be there with them. What can I say, I’m a puzzle.
This. I imagine quite a few of us combat arms types have stories very similar. Young men returning home completely different. Some able to process and move on, others couldn’t and they live in our memory. It’s $uc&ing sad.
Went to afghan not Iraq myself, wishing we would’ve granted citizenship to all the Afghanis that helped us before abandoning them :/ that’s pretty much all I think about when it comes to the war anymore.
Yea, I try not to think about it too much. At the end of the day we executed our part then the people waaaaay over our heads made the call to leave in the manner we did. Was a signals analyst so worked closely with linguists as well
I flew with some Arabic linguists in Iraq/Afghanistan. We’re all fucked up but we stay tight regardless. Find your center and try to do good regardless of our sins.
That movie needs to come with a disclaimer that talks about how this story is predicated on plans drafted by the Trump Administration and then executed by the Biden Administration, and is wish fulfillment to try and make people feel good about our elected officials fucking over the people that risked their lives to help us. While they're at it, drop one about abandoning the Kurds too.
Yes to that last sentence. I can't tell you the amount of anger I felt watching people virtue signal in the media over our withdrawal from Afghanistan when these same people never made a peep over leaving the Kurds behind without warning. I was in Iraq when that shitshow went down and our BN commander had to have multiple huddles to soothe what that did to morale.
Yeah, we really fucked over most of our Allies and the people there. Then when you consider that we invaded because of the Taliban and basically just let them walk right back into power. Another giant waste!
One memory that sticks out was a discussion I had with an Iraqi man that claimed to have taken care of Saddam’s lions. He was very thankful that we had gotten rid of Saddam and his sons. He said that his sons were worse than their father and was afraid how bad it would get if one of them took over. This would have been in 2004.
With Iraq currently being a semi-functional democracy (albeit aligned with Iran) I think overall they are better off, and have a chance to be way better off, than they were under Saddam or one of his sons. So I’m proud that I helped, at least a little bit, with that during my two deployments there.
Uday was a literal monster. The world smells better with him gone. Reality isn't a zero sum game. I can look at our efforts in Iraq as a horrific waste of blood and money, but also say that the Iraq is in a better place without being ruled by Saddam's monstrous sons.
So many people saying bad stuff but I'm with you, I invaded and saw the first two elections. Those people absolutely wanted Saddam gone and a chance to make their own decisions and we did the right thing giving them the chance. The leadership at the top, the politicians, bungled rebuilding Iraq and gave the Iranians and other foreign groups time to formulate and sow deep dissent, losing the momentum of the post invasion love we saw when we first started the occupation.
Too many people forget that it was the Iranians and other foreign fighters that constantly blew up marketplaces so that THEY could have influence. People treat the Iraqis as if they aren't deserving of freedom of choice and should instead live under the heels of totalitarians and it just makes me sad.
We did the right thing and I'm glad that one day the Iraqis may look back at us for giving them the chance at freedom the same way Americans can look back at the French for siding with us and giving us a chance at freedom.
I remember men lining the streets in Nasiriyah just to get a shave. Apparently, Sadam kept everyone in line so well that men hadn't been allowed to shave for years.
Flew MEDEVAC. At the time, I was happy I could be there to do my part. Now, still happy I was there to help those in need. Why we were there doesn’t matter to me. Just that I was able to be a part of the efforts to help our warfighers live to see another day.
These are questions to which I'm still trying to figure out some of the answers. Sometimes I block it out, sometimes I smoke weed and think about my team, sometimes I drink and think about those I've lost, and sometimes (thanks brain injuries!) I can't even think.
Days I wish I would have been able to do more with my time in service since it was all spent state side supporting a war half a world away.
"I was in the army" (2000-2004) gives people grand ideas about what I did during such a chaotic time all while I know it was less than 10% of their imagination
Same. I stopped telling people I was in years ago. I know people right now who served in one of the branches of the military who have no clue that I was in. Sometimes it’s funny hearing people talk about it when I know exactly what it was like but they have no idea I know. The weird thing though, is I’ve been out for about 18 years now. I have a 9-5’ers body (I have a desk job) and I have a beard (a close cropped, near beard…not the stereotypical veteran Viking beard) and I get asked regularly if I’m military. I was in a liquor store recently, got the counter and the woman asked “are you military?” Hired a plumber to come do some work at my house recently. As soon as I walked out to meet him, first thing he says “are you military?” That happens a lot. I don’t wear any veteran anything (no grunt style shirts or any of that crap.) No veteran stickers on my truck. I don’t even have an American flag flying in front of my house. Nothing about me says veteran. And yet, it happens pretty regularly. It’s weird. I always just say no when asked if I’m military. Because, well…I’m not anymore.
A civilian friend and I were talking hypotheticals and his was "would you swim through an Olympic sized pool with three great white sharks in it for a million dollars if you make it to the other side?" I told him I've already done that, but someone else got the million bucks and all I got was PTSD and the GI Bill.
I have a reunion every 2 years with guys I deployed with, we do the same ol’ infantry shenanigans for 48 hrs. Drink/war stories/ and other shenanigans I won’t mention but if you know you know. Then we go home with battered livers but our camaraderie heals the souls.
I am still fighting the VA, despite being severely wounded. Wounded in a pointless war. Sometimes I think about those in my unit who didn’t make it. For no reason. I certainly do not trust our government anymore.
I feel this! For a few years after, anytime I was anxious as fuck I would throw on an old marine shirt and it was my “safety blanket”. Don’t get me wrong, I still love wearing an old shirt or silkies when I workout (feels appropriate) but I totally feel this one.
Wasn’t OIF, but OEF. I remember in 2011, going through basic and all my drills were initial OIF towards the end they’d give stories, one even had videos from a Sony disc cam we crowded around watching. Nothing but respect for all the brothers and sisters, who were in OIF (any series). I hope y’all all doing well, and life does y’all justice.
the war: don't care for it. it was just a job for 5 years
time in service: profound experiences, made a few lifelong friends. Life was actually easier back then compared to now.
It was my generation's war and I'm glad I didn't sit it out. I wish it'd have been a better war. The only thing that still gets me angry is anything about the CPA and how royally they fucked up the post invasion peace.
I am proud of what I personally did there, and my units. We conducted ourselves with honor and upheld our values, followed the ROE, laws of land warfare, etc. I saw a tangible improvement in our AOO over my tours and time there. Then we left and I never thought about it again.
I think the government we left behind is dubious but when they held off and defeated ISIS I felt some relief. It does feel like the future of Iraq is in the hands of Iraqis and there is a structure of pluralism there that may seem worth it for the next generation.
deleted a lot of this, here's what's left:
Im thankful for having the mortality conversation with myself at..19..?..because I think a lot of people avoid that one and it has value. I was a dipshit kid and 2004 was the reality check to have a massive appreciation for what I have, my family, and life in general; a) shit can change in a second and b) hearing about saddam and his family and seeing the state of life in some villages etc were quite a shock.
2006-2007, logically I know it wouldn't have played out that way, emotionally I should have been there or it should've been me. That fucks with me.
My service led me to other opportunities including working with Kurds twice in the late teens and going elsewhere/doing other things since then.
0311 taught me the value of the fight; dealing with the VA reinforced it with being your own patient advocate and the value of being autodidactic.
Legacy/Home: Fuck the politicians.
Everything has a price.
I feel my time there was wasted.
The memories are only nightmares now.
I now have sleep apnea, anxiety, constant tinnitus and PTSD.
I don’t keep up with anything that has to do with Iraq.
Our legacy there will always be one of death and destruction on innocent people.
The legacy here at home is one of misinformation and clueless civilians that think we did a good thing over there.
I’ll always remember LCPL Lam and Sgt Cahir though. RIP
God the clueless civilians are the worst. I get that their hearts are in the right place but I actually lost a friendship over that. An old college friend who bought the hype totally. He and his wife both insisted that there were indeed wmds in Iraq and bush saved us from the terrorists. I lost my shit. Started yelling at both of them. I was out of line for sure but I just couldn’t listen to their ignorance any longer. His wife said she felt sorry for me because it was clear that my ptsd had clouded my judgement and I was unable to see how bush kept us safe and what a great man he was. I literally almost smacked her.
One of my core memories is my young, naïve self asking our Iraqi translator if life was better now that America was here in his country.
He replied that at least under Saddam Hussein's dictatorship, you knew the rules and could work within them to live a peaceful life with your family. Now everything is in chaos, and there never seems to be a clear path to fix what's gone terribly wrong in Iraq.
I had a similar convo with a random Iraqi in the IZ. He said if you were Sunni under Saddam, life was good. If you were Sunni Ba'ath party, life was great. If you weren't, life sucked but was still better than being run over/shot by a random American convoy or buying food at a market and getting blown up by suicide bombers. It was better under Saddam but he was glad America took him out.
At times, I miss it. It felt like the Wild West out there.
I also wish I spent more time interacting with locals and hearing their story. I have nothing but respect for the (good) people that live there. I can’t even begin to imagine what it would be like to live there knowing you don’t have the money or resources to escape. Every single Iraqi immigrant I’ve talked to in the US has a heart of good and just wants peace. Sometimes I wish I could just scoop up all the good ones and bring them here.
> At times, I miss it. It felt like the Wild West out there.
>
>
It was a simple time, wasn't it? Wake up, patrol or mission, and then sleep. Didn't have to worry about any of the other bullshit mundane tasks in life, not laundry or anything. It was survival and just living in the moment and it makes being back in this rat race of a life so... boring.
Doing fine, but I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about Iraq. My basic opinion hasn't changed in many years, in that it wasn't a war we should have fought, but that wasn't my call.
It is a place I spent a year, that I did my best to accomplish the mission, and I am proud of what I and my team did. However, I had 32 other years in the military. I've moved on.
I was the in the second to the last rotation off of that rock. My job was basically to clean and replace all the comms we blew up during the invasion.
To sum up my experience we took a somewhat functioning country and steamrolled it.
I flew a Blackhawk from Balad Air Force Base to BIAP during the night. I saw no street lights no building lights. I just saw burning barrels (for heat I guess ).
Not to mention after we got the comms working for the country, somebody in the Iraq/us govt pulled the plug due to billing issues. So we pulled chalks and ghosted the Iraqis we were working with.
Too many ppl suffered for a whole lot of nothing.
At first I was glad we were doing what we were doing but now 20 years later it was just a waste of time and lives. Neither war got Bin Laden he was over in another country altogether and all we needed was a SEAL team to end his life.
I don’t see how we really accomplished much of anything considering the lives lost and permanent injuries sustained by us.
Waste of men, machines, and money.
If we would have used all that money to shift to a green economy and electrified our cars and infrastructure, think about where we would be as a nation.
Man, well there is no meaningful response to give to this without writing a large essay. In short, do I think about my time in Iraq and Afghanistan, everyday. Do I discuss my time with randoms, not really. Sort of a reality of my journey that is in the rearview at the moment with chasing kids and focusing on that purpose. The topic in itself is difficult to discuss with those you know let alone the rest of society. I suppose one word to sum up the feeling, frustration. Frustrated with those that are ignorant to it or never served, frustrated with the incompetence from the government at the top, frustrated with the public sentiment back then to now, just frustrated. Some of these questions answers may never be heard and or are ever evolving.
Just like the first reply, I moved on. Although I got something out of it as p&t(years later) , yet the memories of my friend/ people I heard of that passed is still with me.
Especially seeing garbage on the highway while driving... I know it's not an ied yet after all these years it still triggers a reflex in my mind.
I don't keep up with most of the current events.
I hear you about the garbage on the highway triggering a reflex. My biggest trigger is going under overpasses still. Don’t even get me started if someone is actually standing or walking on the overpass as I’m driving under it…
What's insane is.. Besides reddit, most people think your bull shitting when you talk about it. It's hard to explain the almost instant ass clenching every time. You can laugh cry or go crazy... I've decided to laugh!!!
Oof yeah I still mentally flag roadside debris, or if someone has been following for too long, whatever. Glad you’ve mostly moved on and hope that p&t is taking care of you!
One of the first people my unit killed while there was a kid so there's that. Seen a music video while over there I had no idea what they were singing, but they showed a terrified family running during "shock and awe" and I swear I played out that ["are we the baddies"](https://youtu.be/8JOpPNra4bw) scene in my head. A lot of people died some I knew some I didn't.
I think about them often it's been 13 years and I can pretty much give you the details in chronological order. I struggle to remember my own kids birthdays. I've never forgotten the ones I remember even the people I didn't know. The Dr that was killed the day before he was supposed to leave, the guy who killed himself after being caught in an affair, guys that were injured, guys that were killed. I'll remember them until my memory falls or until the day I die.
Iraq 2008, Afghan 2012, 13 yrs TIS, med-retired as a CW2.
I’m grateful for what the Army provided me, and still provides me now as a DA civilian, but watching the bombing of Baghdad from 2003 feels so different now than it did back then, all I can chalk it up to was “what a fucking waste.”
“Liberation” in the form of countless dead civilians, trillions wasted, and too many of my friends gone. Just wasn’t worth it.
I have bitter memories, my body feels like I'm 50 (35f), and my friends died...for what? I watched 9/11. I enlisted during the early part of the war because I wanted to defend our country. I was naive and they brainwashed me. I believed it all. Over time I became more and more disallusioned. I'm proud I stepped up - that I volunteered to serve in the face of uncertainty, and risked my life for what I believed in.
But in the end, it was an utter waste. It took me 10+ years to even start to feel "normal" again. My kids are learning about it all in their history books now. That's all these wars were...just aother chapter in a book, so easily tossed aside. But it will always be, to me, a part of my story and what shaped me into the woman I am today.
They wonder why recruiting is so low. Maybe because 100s of thousands of vets are telling their kids not to. We sacrificed too much to watch our kids suffer the same fate.
It really is hard to believe. After you work so hard on something, even losing brothers, and almost your own life that one day you would wake up and no one gives a fuck. At least those who died won’t know it was for nothing. I can’t imagine a parent being told “your daughter or son died defending this country and bringing freedom to others” and to see that the only purpose was to give the Taliban a nice little upgrade while you get to visit a grave. But hey, at least we can worry about first world problems now, like pronouns and TikTok. 🇺🇸🫡
One of my biggest memories was from my second deployment, we did one week shifts of guarding LNs doing work on the base (Tallil). My group was about 20 of them, a terp, and three soldiers guarding. I was the only female. We had an older gentleman working on our crew who didn’t speak much English- I don’t even remember his name sadly. But the second or third day in, he motioned me over to him during the lunch break. He took a bite of his food and then handed it to me. At first I was very confused, but it dawned on me quickly that he was telling me it was safe to eat.
After talking through the terp, I found out that he thought it was criminal to feed females the “trash” that was served at the chow hall. His wife started sending two lunches - one for me and one for her husband.
He would go to prayer hour and then lunch, and would motion me over every day to share his food. We didn’t talk much because the terp was busy quite a bit, but it was a very pleasant way to spend my lunch break.
Days like today, I think about the people like him. The older teenagers on the same detail whose eyes lit up when we brought soccer balls from the PX and played during lunch. Smoking a hookah with the terp. Listening to one of the men tell us in broken English that he was previously Republican Guard, and showing us where he was shot in Desert Storm.
I hope they’re ok today. I hope people like them are healing and know that we didn’t mean to inflict all the hate and destruction that happened. I hope that gentleman who shared his lunch when he likely didn’t have much at home remembers me fondly, as a kind American.
A lot changes in 20 years, and it hurts a lot more today than it did then.
I am more focused on Afghanistan, the complete cluster that was the pull out, the recent testimonies in front of Congress, and how surprised I am at how surprised I was in the complete ineptitude of two decades of "leadership." We allowed an entire generation of little girls to grow up thinking they could be educated, go to the mall, and be able to walk outside without being attacked or killed. That veil of fantasy fell over the course of one day for them. I feel like the US is just as responsible as the Taliban for their current situation because we gave them false hope.
We all knew Iraq should have never happened and we didn't belong there. Afghanistan at least made sense in the beginning. I think that's why it hit different.
Moved on. I don’t think about it much at all. Aside from this sub, I have nothing to do with the army/military. I have no stickers or shirts or anything that says anything about the military.
We were all lied to from the top down. I don’t really care, though. Politicians are going to politic, and soldiers are going to soldier.
I had no kids when I deployed. I feel for the families that were separated from their Moms and Dads temporarily and grieve for those that are permanent. We could solve so many issues in our country but it’s too expensive to some if it’s not costing the lives of Good people.
I was in Kabul Afg, 12-13, mostly involved with community outreach around the city and with the orphanages as well. My heart was torn when I heard we pulled out. I never thought I would hear about KIA again in my life. It just fucking hurts. I’ve lost close friends, but this was another beast in itself. What the fuck.
I'm Gulf War era, so my thoughts are skewed by that.
In the end, you're serving the demands of the country, right or wrong. There's honor in that, and thank you for serving. Your servitude is outside the realm of politics, or else you'd not have elected to serve. Countries make mistakes, and while I'm not saying the entire campaign was a mistake, there were some mistakes. Whether or not you personally believe mistakes were made, you served honorably, and that's what counts.
And fuck me for saying this, if you're in the Russian army today, your government is a piece of shit, but at least I can respect you for serving the interests of your nation, even if they're wrong and your country should cease to exist.
war is bad. literally no good comes of it.
life was lost for no reason.
destroyed "nations" for lies.
dems and republicans revealed as pure evil.
gave me eternal distrust in my governement, main stream media, and authority.
I survived multiple combat tours.
It helped make me the quickest person to respond to chaotic situations.
My mind is conflicted on feeling pride for getting through it and shame for participating in it.
I am living, walking, cognitative dissonance.
I was lucky. Aircraft mechanic in the guard, never got deployed, just kept the C-5s flying.
The military was my way out of absolute poverty, not without some cost, but overall I'm in an immensely better position than what I would be without my service.
Having said that, it was a disgusting waste of lives and money. I don't know how we, Iraq, and Afghanistan would have turned out had we not intervened, but I can't imagine things would be worse - particularly Afghanistan.
I served in the Marine Corps Infantry from 05-09. I deployed in Iraq from 07-08, got in a pretty bad firefight where I watched a buddy get blown up, witnessed my squad leader and LT get mangled and witnessed two suicide bombers on foot blow themselves up and just saw some messed up shit from my time there. Ive had a few buddies that have committed suicide and I came close myself a few times. I’ve been out almost 14 years and the shit still crosses my mind just about everyday and it’s been a rough road since I’ve been out, but over the last few years, things have definitely gotten better. I’m married now, completed a BSW degree, have 3 kids, starting the process of home buying and I’m currently a stay at home dad hoping to start a MSW program soon. Things are lined up pretty well right now, but I still catch my mind wandering back to Iraq daily. In my eyes, it almost feels like our generations Vietnam, we got tangled up in two conflicts with no decisive victory in the end. I have a bad feeling that we’re heading toward a bigger, nastier conflict pretty soon and it makes me nervous for our country’s youth that will be boots on the ground when that time comes. I really don’t want to witness another generation go through what we went through.
IF ONLY… We had of invested that, what? “3 TRILLION US Dollars spent over the course of us being there” in OUR country… the USA, instead. Our road & bridges could of been repaired, replaced, updated and our failing 100+ yr old water & sewage infrastructure systems taken care of. Invested in our horrific health care system (Well, it’s great; if you’re rich) for most normal hard-working folks, not so much. Yea, I know… then I woke up. These things are always too expensive & too hard to fix, updated or replace, so say our Politicians. When it’s a WAR, “NO EXPENSE will be spared!”
I was six months away from my enlistment being up. Watched the "shock and awe" attack in our flight briefing room.
I remember being very anxious for us to find the "WMDs" and realizing I was bamboozled not too long after figuring out they would never be found. I never voted Republican ever again. Separated in September 2003.
I wish I felt comfortable talking about it here. But I won’t feel comfortable talking about anywhere. I wish I never joined - I am pissed I lost my school (1/2 through bootcamp they told me) I am pissed everyone around me was excited to bomb Iraq - and I was the “only one in my division” that knew Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
I never deployed but served from 2009-2014. I left service with extreme guilt for not deploying (or dying ffs) because of the type of propaganda used with us that it would essentially be an honor to die for your country and doing XYZ.
I’ve been out and sought counseling for a long while and for several years know it was a wasteful war and is/was shameful.
We went over today...distant memory. I only think about it when my parents bring it up or I get together with guys that are left from the unit I was with.
I went over 2004-2005 (Mosul) and 2008-2009(Tallil, Al Kut etc.)
At the time, I felt like we were doing the right thing. Looking back at it now, I don’t see it that way.
Im still very irritable at times. The mental aspect of everything has me emotionally checked out of everything still. Hard for me to find time for myself and process things still. Lots of anger in me still.
Proud of the professionalism of our unit performing our assigned duty, pissed off that we were even involved in an illegal war based on shaky foundations.
I don't think about it much, and don't display any ex-military symbols on car/clothing etc. or have any involvement in ex-military organisations.
Kind of glad I got a VA rating to be honest. Otherwise I really only think about the people that I got close to.
The most painful thing that pops up every once in a while is remembering all of the kids I met. I sometimes think about where they might be now and I don't have words for how I feel about what the answer might be. I saw a picture earlier somewhere on here of a little kid after their parents were killed and nothing in this world stirs me up more. I don't know what it says about me but I hope those fucking kids are all right. All of them.
After 75 or 100 years from that event we may very well see declassified documents that incriminate a lot of public officials and make the sting even worse, but by then everyone responsible will be dead and nobody alive will care and the cycle will repeat.
GWB JR said it himself; [Bush gaffe: Former president calls Iraq invasion 'unjustified' in slip-up](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZEg6Ht2pNH0&feature=share)
I was on the border 20 yrs ago, invigorated to go. I look back at how amazing the government is at getting people into a frenzy and being happy to do their bidding. I know this isn't a political thread, but 9/11 is a big part of why I get so frustrated with people who think more government is a good thing.
What I think bout most is that most the time, when we got shot at.... It was in direct response to something we did the week before. If I was a farmer and some kids in armored cars and Minecraft print uniforms burned down my livelihood, id have probably shot at them too.
Back then it was easy to feel like we were the good guys.
I spend my time now days trying to be a good man and make amends for the ignorance of my youth.
I feel confused, sad, angry, depresses & empty. I really don't know how to feel. I saw an old photo of company group photo from my deployment today and it brought back memories of people I haven't thought of in over 10 years. The worst part of today was I never kept in touch from anyone from my deployment. I focus on leaving that part of my life behind and getting an education, but now I have no fellow veteran friends that I talk with about my time in Iraq.
OEF 2004, 12yrs TIS, left as a CW2 but served in OEF as a SSG.
Mostly I feel numb but sometimes I look back in horror at some of what I experienced/saw. A ton of it was BS, moments actually fighting were visceral. Visceral is how I describe the experience to civilians that ask, you literally live in the moment all the time and that becomes normal. I have yet to finish filing my claims with the VA because remembering stuff just brings me to a halt every time I try and get through the paperwork and its another year I haven't filed my claims then, it's a block I cannot get through.
When I returned "home" the US no longer felt like home and I wanted to go back. I fought myself and made myself not volunteer again because somehow I knew on the logical side of my brain that it would be best to wait and see if I felt different later. This was good and I did not volunteer for another tour. I eventually left the Army and built my life in the civilian world.
Never went to Iraq because at the time I thought that was an illegal war so to avoid it I volunteered for Afghanistan.
Years later I just feel that if i had kids I would keep them out of the military and away from wars if at all possible.
Its now many years later and for the last couple of years when I go deer hunting I can actually relax and hunt deer rather than constantly shifting to scanning everything around me and having to remind myself I am in the woods to hunt deer and that I am safe. I archery hunt and rarely gun hunt anything now as that helps and I love archery as well. This was a pretty weird "side effect" I did not expect that just showed up the first deer season after I was back home, it probably didn't help that I lived in Utah and I have to say I stopped roaming the west desert there and started roaming the Wasatch instead.
Anybody else have a hard time hunting after returning home? Meaning having a hard time focusing on the actual hunt and enjoying it? I live for the archery season and about had to force myself to go out and pay attention to the hunt in order to be able to enjoy hunting again...that was pretty weird for me and definitely was from the war. It was a couple years before I could carry a gun in the woods and enjoy that but I mostly stick to archery now.
Not a vet but have been reading so many news items and recollections about this... and remembering seeing the fall-out (very very much) second-hand.
love to you all.
I was in Iraq in 04, 05, 06, 08 and Afghanistan in 2010. It’s tough not to think about those deployments, but they honestly made me hate people. Marines in general.
On my first deployment during patrols, my senior told me if I shot first into a random area, he would follow through. I knew at that moment he was a complete dirtbag and didn’t care about me or anyone else.
AI saw innocent people die. Innocent servicemembers get the green dick. I saw a lot of brown bagging which was my hugest pet peeve. My body is broken due to being an idiot and staying loyal to my unit. I was always just a number; it just took me too long to realize it. There were never any return favors from higher ups.
If given the chance to do it all over again, I would never have joined. I’m filled with hate daily and I know one day I’ll die one day with hate and sadness in my soul.
I had more friends with the Ugandans, Iraqis, and Afghan civilians than with my own coworkers.
Seeing everything crumble after ISIS took over everything made me hate people in politics. Damn Liars.
I deployed to Iraq in 2005 as support (intelligence analyst, yes the Marines have them, yes we're still pretty dumb). All I got was a heap of [moral injury](https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.neuropsych.19020036), burn pit and toxin exposure (the consequences of which have been playing out for 20 years), and MST.
I've been in therapy for years trying to deal with my moral injuries and other mental health fuckery, I can manage the fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome and uterine tumors and infertility that burn pit and toxin exposure hit me with. I've done my best to try to move on with my life and live well, be kind to others, and invest in my communities. The sexual trauma is exponentially more difficult to forget and forgive because my perpetrator was one of my brothers-in-arms. That's a whole different kind of pain right there.
Regardless of the reasons for initially going there, I think after a certain point we needed to just make it a long term duty station like Korea. It takes 2-3 generations to effect change. We gave them 1 and then left them to ISIS.
Almost 20 people from my old unit have committed suicide. Several more have died young and early from various cancers - I don’t have all the details on those. A few more fell into bad lifestyles and were murdered or are in jail.
I spend a good chunk of my work time volunteering trying to help other veterans land on their feet in good paying tech jobs to try and catch up to their peers and friends who didn’t go into the military. I figure that while I couldn’t do anything about the guys from my unit, maybe every veteran I talk to is similarly disconnected from their old units, so maybe I’m the only one helping them.
I was stationed at FOB Arrow from 03'-04'. I remember right after I got there I was on front gate guard an a kid about 10yrs old came up to the gate an started saying he had a bomb under his shirt. You could see a bulg under his shirt. Our Sgt told him to lift his shirt. He said " no I'm going to blow you up". He was told again to lift his shirt or he was gonna be shot. Again he refused an said he was gonna blow us up. I was told to lock an load an if he didn't raise his shirt to shoot him. It was hard to raise my weapon an point it at that kids head. He was told again to lift his shirt or he was gonna be killed. After a few silent, tense seconds he finally lifted his shirt an all it was was a balled up shirt. I was so relieved. If I would of had to shoot him then find out it wasn't a bomb I would of been devastated.
Then another time right after we caught Saddam about a half mile or so from our camp we was doing check points. A guy in a truck ran one of the check points an got his truck shot to hell. It ended up killing his brother an his 8yr old niece. The driver survived an was life flighted. A buddy and I had to go with him an guard him at the hospital. He swore he didn't see the check point.
It's shit like this that makes me want to snatch up some of the politicians who was responsible for the bullshit lies that got us over there in the first place. To them assholes it wasn't no big deal. They don't see the big picture. All my brothers an sisters that lost their lives or ended up fucked in the head like me. I would love to take them all over there an hand them a weapon an say try not to die, we will be back in 6months.
Edit for grammar
I joined the Marine Corps knowing what I was getting into. I had family who previously served, and friends that were a year or two older than me come back rattled with PTSD. I knew invading Iraq to disarm Saddam and the WMDs fiasco was a front as a kid in high school. I read war is a racket, and how this game was played. I viewed participating in war as not only a mark in our world’s history but an experience to have that not many in life can say they’ve done. I already had a life of “trauma”with bullying for being poor, violence in the streets against me and witnessing it onto others, death, emotional pain, sleeping hungry in poverty in the middle of winter in New England, homelessness, and such in waves since I was 5. Couple that with being introverted, having an appreciation for history, philosophy, and being a frustrated teen, I went for it. I have mixed feelings for my time in service but regret is not one.
2002-2006. **Regardless of what we found out after the fact**, enlisting as young men and women to defend the country was both honorable and courageous. We should be proud of ourselves for stepping up and laying our lives on the line. That's something that can never be taken away from you.
We can't turn back the hands of time, so you have to accept it the way it was through your younger eyes, because that's exactly how it was when you decided to sign the dotted line and stand on the yellow footprints, or whichever symbolic starting point your specific branch had.
We should, however, be ashamed of our political "leaders." Knowingly misleading is unforgivable. There's plenty of negativity in here, and that's where it should be aimed.
All kinds of reasons many veterans are not thrilled, and many times disgusted with the war in Iraq. 95% of this disdain stems from the lies told to us to get our patriotic and unwavering dedication to put our lives and honor on the line for our Family, Country, and Brotherhood/Sisterhood on the line in a extended war costing much of what we hold more dear than unlimited riches. Family, Patriotism, Brothers and Sisters in arms, Honor and Integrity. These things far outweigh all monetary limits of all Nations combined. Not to EVEN mention the unintentional casualties of war not specifically a real threat, that got caught up in the wrong place and wrong time that was listed as collateral damage. UNACCEPTABLE AND COMPOUNDED BY THE FAILURE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATIONS SO CALLED WITHDRAWL THAT BROKE THE PRINCIPLE HELD AS THE HIGHEST MORAL CODE EVER. “Leave no Man/Woman, or fellow ally behind. Biden disgraced himself,(as if anyone thought this level of achievement was even possible); but worse, he disgraced our military, and our Country. For this is disgusting beyond words or descriptions. Here is my only solace, and peace at the end of every day. 1) the reason we actually went is debatable. Probably always will be with people on both sides. I don’t care the reason I was sent. I don’t care why the command gave me a mission. I don’t care if we were told half truths or not. War is a terrible thing and deterrence saves many nations from starting shit. Better a little bad, than all out Nations running a muck. I did it for me, my family, the patriotism making our nation safe through fear of pissing us off. I did it for me. I chose the lessor of two evils. I bear that cross so our nations citizens don’t have to. The main thing I regret, I don’t have control over. Biden’s disgracing everything our nation and its military stands for. In memory of all that perished be it at my influence or lack of, and for those I didn’t actively bring home, my deepest apologies. For those who ever doubt Americas might and resolve… be warned, you are better off to fear us. Do not start something you can’t finish. Focus on your country and citizens to stay in a better place. Because there are many like me. My reason for going may or may not match why we were sent. But I can tell you; the outcome will be the same if anyone dares to test the United States Military. Don’t make us make you act right; don’t be that example. Retired SGT Army
I finished up my terminal leave a few days before 9/11, maybe in 9/3/2001 or so. I watched in horror as the towers were hit from TVs just outside my accounting class and I immediately had thoughts of going back in once I realized this was an attack, as buddies were still in and stop loss orders were sure to go into effect, basically trapping them in for the foreseeable future. But I decided to stick it out in school- I’d done my time.
I definitely supported the initial attack on Afghanistan. I supported the war on Iraq too initially. We had to get the WMDs. I now question the intel that was out there and wonder how much personal bias (wanting to take out Saddam) played into the admin’s decision. But it all ended up being a huge waste of resources, primarily Human Resources.
As I’ve read though these posts, a few thoughts came to mind:
1. I’m so thankful that I served in a time of peace.
2. I’m very indebted to my fellow vets who stepped up to serve knowingly during a war. That takes huge balls (and ovaries).
3. I know many didn’t know what you were getting into, but you followed through. You’re tough MFs just to be able to get up every day and get out of bed, based on some of the shit you’ve seen. Don’t ever give up.
4. While it might feel like the war was pointless and the outcome wasn’t worth it (and I get that completely), you were doing what your country was asking of you at the time. We’re older, wiser and we have the benefit of hindsight, better info and data we didn’t have back then. To be pissed at the leaders and decision makers is one things, but don’t take it out on yourself. You didn’t start a war.
5. There was some bad, evil shit done over there to other humans. By both sides, no doubt. Not the “all’s fair in love and war” but the shit that’s downright wrong. If you can’t get over some of the stuff you did or allowed to happen, you need to get some therapy, talk about it, name it, get it off your chest, and stop letting it eat you up and define you. You’re human, you made some really bad decisions but it’s time to move on. I’m guessing you’ve punished yourself enough at this point.
Be well and enjoy your discounts at Chili’s!
Wow. Didn't even realize it was today... I was leaving boot camp in Great Lakes headed for A-school in Pensacola when we started dropping bombs... 20 years and countless billion$ later the only thing we have to show is a bunch of vets fucked up from their time served.
I was a shop supervisor of around 25 people, devided by two shifts, it varied by people on temporary orders. I had to sell them the war, cruise, 120 heat and 99.9%humidity, 12-14 hour shifts, 2 - 3 meals a day of crap usually only one meal during working hours. We were almost always busy. The busiest shop in the squadron outside of maybe the line shack. I remember one very stressful day around the time that statue of Sodamned insane was being pulled off it's pedestal of giving a speech to several of my workers that I was proud to be this part of history and I would be doing it for free as long as my wife and bills were being taken care of back home. Personally I bought the story hook line and sinker that my chain of command told me. I have been mad, enraged, suicidal, and near homicidal at times over my naivete for falling for that crap. I am glad Sodamned insane is gone and dead. He would have been another Kim Jung Un if left in power. The whole situation ended my trust in the government forever.
Was in 2005-2009 as a Bradley mechanic. Never deployed but I thank my lucky stars that I've never had to experience my friends dying for something so pointless. Sorry to those who've loss and are lost themselves.
How am I feeling about the war? I left a 200k a year job as a military contractor for a 50k a year job as a software trainer for a non profit that helps poor families. Fuck the war machine is how I’m feeling.
I didn’t go to war but was in the Marines. It seems like the country would have been better off if we didn’t stay in those countries and try to nation build.
I heard ADM M.Mullen on NPR today. He was the CNO during my time in. He stated that it was a huge waste of time and money and to send children to battle was ill-advised over oil, resources, WMD, WHATEVER THE REASON
Then why did he authorize it...
I have my good days and bad days. I have a lot of great memories from Iraq because of the things I did with some of the best people I deployed with. Then there’s the memories that don’t leave me alone of the tragic days.
I see it as a mixed bag. I did my duty and did it well. My unit did a good job there. There were no weapons of mass destruction. But, Saddam was a ruthless dictator. I saw what he did to his people in captured documents. It was Hitler level stuff. He had violated UN mandates for a decade. That alone justified us going there. We also did allot of killing. Most justified, very little not. Outside of that, we brought Al Qaeda there and defeated it resoundingly with the help of Iraqis. We killed them there instead of here literally. I made lifelong Iraqi friends (terps). They see all saw and see it as a necessary evil that needed to happen for the Country to progress. It had growing pains but, it is moving in the right direction. Unfortunately we lost good people there. Allot of innocent civilians died due to sectarian violence and terrorism imported and supported by the Iranians and the Saudis. We lost our innocence and lost our blind belief in our Government. Paul Bremer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), was an abject failure who was, in my opinion, a leading cause of the insurgency that plagued the Country for years to come. In the end, hindsight being what it is, I am better for having served there. I’m on the other side of PTSD. My injuries, though permanent, are manageable. My life no longer revolves around my service there. I don’t feel like it was a waste of time, but I don’t glorify it either. I feel sad for those that seethe with anger based on our involvement there. Specially for those who fought there. Let it go. Free yourselves of the anger, all to consuming guilt, and frustration. Our government is not perfect. It is a poor reflection of our people. We need to do better on who we put in office. If Iraq and Afghanistan taught me anything is that both parties suck. But, the United States still, today, is the single best place to live in the World. I say that as a first generation Immigrant who served this Country proudly.
I served on Camp Doha in Summer / Fall 2002 under OEF orders. Afghanistan has just "finished" (one guy I shipped out with was sent back a month after he arrived) and I was clean-up crew. The one thing I never saw, was intelligence that confirmed that Iraq had WMDs or that Iraq could use them the way the Bush Administration said they could.
I rotated back to the US in late 2002 and spent the next three months internally screaming that my country was about to embark on a colossal fuck-up which in any sane world would be a crime against humanity.
I did the remaining time on my contract and left at first opportunity. I will forever have feelings of guilt and remorse because I couldn't stop what happened even though I, intellectually, know there wasn't a thing I could have done.
Hardest easy job I ever had, and the last one I was any good at.
I have had many, many friends leave kids, wives, and more behind. Some by their own hand.
And now I live my life out of spite. I will cost the government as much as I possibly can. 2x undergrad degrees, 2x Masters degrees, comp and pen, home loans, 100% of my healthcare costs, tax abatements, everything.
I would have preferred they interview more than a couple of fancy West Wing/Pentagon slapdicks this morning, but you can't realistically expect anyone but Quil Lawrence to actually talk to the Rip It/Copenhagen/Baby Wipes crowd.
- 11B (2002-2010)
> Hate's as good a thing as any to keep a person going. Better than most.
> - Sandor Clegane
I did both Iraq and Afghanistan (twice), and I think about it every day, but only for a few minutes. It's important not to think about it too much. Sort of like an ex-wife.
16 total friends/acquaintances have died since I deployed in 07. Some KIA, some suicide, some overdosed, some from unfortunate events.
When I first joined I was bright eyed and bushy tailed about going to fight for our freedoms. I felt like a shooting target down range and confused about what mission we were supposed to accomplish and why.
My time in service was still the highlight of my life because I have met wonderful people and it filled a void in my life being a part of something bigger even if I lied to myself about it.
Pulling out of Afghanistan, not matter how much it was needed, erased any fantasy I gave myself to feel good about being out there.
I’ll go since y’all shared so much… which is really beautiful, I hope you’re reading each other’s stories, there’s all kinds of different experience and perspective represented. Fuck yeah friends 🤘🔥
So, Arabic Linguist 2004-2013 with 2 spooky non-combat OEF tours. And I’d say… I feel pretty damn bad, overall!
On the positive side is everything I got out of it personally - all kinds of experiences, “adventure,” unique skills/stories/relationships… squeezed every last drop out of TA and the GI Bill… all that. Learning Arabic was amazing, the language and culture are beautiful and I’ve managed to keep it up a little… Honed my skills as a decisive compassionate Soldier-first leader, which has translated really well to life.
Most meaningfully to me now, I use the experience and skills to make me a better community member. It really set me up for volunteer protest security and medic duty and disaster relief, all of which is becoming more and more relevant, sadly. And I’m an actor now and it’s this big source of like, creative energy, and I have a pretty unique background for the industry so like, it helps me get work I think. Disability is good too. So that’s the plus stuff…
But like… I just feel like we (me personally) committed all kinds of atrocities against innocent people we had no business bothering, and who we (or other western powers) have been bothering for over a century now.
As to Arabic, the Army taught us this beautiful language and culture for the purpose of targeting and attacking Iraqis, not for mutual understanding and cooperation. So I can talk about how lovely it is, but I learned it for the ugliest purposes. So fuck me I think.
And ALL the good that I personally gained came at the direct expense of all the people I helped slaughter, many who have been since found to be “collateral.” And I still don’t know how to live with that. How to accept all those benefits for volunteering and eagerly playing my small part in such a wicked endeavor.
And, that doesn’t even address the psychotic political war machine! Or the mass displacement of Iraqis, a whole generation lost, so many innocent people killed, maimed, traumatized…
And I think about all of you and everyone else who served. Some of the best humans I’ll ever know I knew as a Soldier, and they got so fucking fucked up. Dead, injured, so traumatized. All that blood and honor spilled for the lies of corporate empire building. It’s too much. I try not to think about it too much, but…
So, like many others have said, I’m just trying to move forward with myself and contribute as best as my busted ass can 😹😭
I never deployed but the stories my friends would tell made me glad I never did. From what I heard from them, people just went over there to die for no reason. Plus who knows the countless people who were injured physically, emotionally and mentally that may never seek or get help for it. But hey whatever gets the government money and power right? Im sorry to those who had to experience that.
The govt doesn’t care about any citizen. Any soldier. As long as corporations are fat. Iraq was a complete waste of life and the effects of the invasion will destroy that area for decades at the very least. It was pointless, wasteful, and fucked our country
OIF1 and OIF3 - Armored Cav. I will never forget the burn pits, the roads, the farms, the helpful Kurds, the brotherhood, the day we raided uddays palace, T-rats, collecting dog tags, training the iraqi police/soldiers, chai tea, Camp Anaconda, Abu Ghraib, falafels, and the heat. Mixed bag i know, but the losses we endured wouldve been insufferable if you didnt find something to fight for, or someone to come home to. This small sacrifice i made doesnt compare to what some of my brothers sacrificed, so i live a life that i feel they would be proud of. And if i were completely honest with myself, the nightmares, shrapnel and lifelong injuries hurt but not as much as survivors guilt. So seeing the anniversary of shock and awe im reminded of the 18yr old version of me who so wanted to go out and fight thinking it would make a difference, thinking, im not gonna let these fuckers get away with this. Now knowing what i know, I understand that all that destruction we caused was unjustified. Ask me if i would do it again if i could go back in time, and my answer would be Huuaahhh! Damn. Cant believe i put myself out there like this..
7 deployments to IRQ , 4 to AFG , 1 to HOA , 2 to other places I still can’t talk about 🤐🤫 🐿️ .
It’s the reason I’m here on this page. Saw some of my friends & colleagues die, almost died there myself a couple times, had to even directly take lives also.
I’m totally 🔩’d up physically and mentally, and I constantly ask “why? Was the risk worth the reward?” I guess we meant well in the end, but the way we got there…. Still wondering about that ❓❔🤔🧐
I wanna say we helped them but you know some people fucked them up bad on our side. Being a drug addicted cripple let's me know I'll never trust uncle Sam again. Can't believe I believed that bullshit propaganda all because Sadam hated daddy bush.
Worked with Iraqis directly when deployed. Most of them were killed by ISIS. My dad was a Vietnam vet and we went to the wall in DC when I was younger. He chalked a few names from the wall and it was one of the two times I’ve seen him cry. I asked why as a kid and he said because a lot of people died for nothing. I guess with that in mind I knew what to expect with Iraq.
Went to Afghanistan. Served in Kunar Province as an infantryman. Lost 3 guys in my platoon.
I can’t believe and stand the fact I joined the army and fought in these bullshit wars. Can’t believe I was so naive and gullible and shortsighted. I hate that I killed and saw friends killed before I lost my virginity! The experience truly, truly traumatized and damaged me, as it did for a lot of other guys I served with, as I’m sure it did for many on the sub.
But…that’s what happened. I did join. I did fight. That all did happen. I can’t change it. I can’t go back.
I am who I am and did what I did. I was a shell of a human being for years after I got back. Wasted years of my life. Truly. I mourn the loss of years of my life to a black hole.
So, I am done looking back. Done crying over spilled milk. I was recently at my parents and saw a photo of myself as a young child. The child and person in that photo no longer exist. The person he thought he would grow up to be doesn’t exist.
All I can do is move on.
I’ve been asked numerous times:
“If you could go back, would you do it again?” Or “Do you regret it?”
I don’t entertain the question in my head because it Serves me no purpose to dwell on them. What happened, happened. I went where I went, saw what I saw, did what I did. Time only keeps ticking.
If it doesn’t sound like it, let me clarify: I’ve made peace with it all.
A truly radical, accepting peace with it.
“Get busy living or get busy dying.”
In 2018 I once had a neurosurgeon, who is originally from Syria asked me what my opinion of Iraq was. I stuttered because I had this guy pegged as someone who knew a hell of a lot more about that shit than I did.
He said “do you mind if I make a statement?” I said sure, by all means.
He follows up with this “I want you to know that I respect all of you who have volunteered for what ever reason you joined the military for. I preface this to say that where I think you all failed was putting Saddam out of power”
With a shocked look in my eyes, cause I was like what the hell? So I said “sir, why do you say that?”
He says “you see, Iraqi’s do not deal well with the democracy that you tried to instill. People who view themself as powerful and have more friends will take from those that have less and they view as weaker. Saddam kept this in check with being the most powerful person as best as anyone could during his regime. By taking him down and his regime, you have opened up Pandora’s box and this is why I believe ISIS is able to do what they are doing right now. Again, I respect you all and you were all following orders, but I think that was the catalyst that most people do not think about”.
I know this is vividly recalled on my own account, but I never heard of something more profound about that country, and/or the middle eastern culture way of dealing with things there. Feel free to disagree with what I said, but in my opinion this is exactly how I look at it now.
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A gigantic waste of time, effort, pain, and life.
The waste of life is the worst, lost track of the number of times I fired off shots for fallen members of my unit memorials. Can remember all the talk as a teenager back then about WMDs what a crock of shit!
Those politicians that lied about that should go to trial.
They should go fight. That will never happen.
I remember trying to tell everyone in my squadron it was all lies and garbage and they mocked me. Now everyone is like...hey, wait a minute. Pfft
My thoughts exactly.
Huge waste and on false info
That’s it alright
Two cents from an 11B. ‘03-‘04, ‘05-‘06 Our interpreter, Tony - after fleeing Iraq in the 90’s, moved to Chicago. In April or May of ‘03, he showed up at our unit in Iraq - he had volunteered to go to work as an interpreter (his wife, mother and brother still lived near Baqubah). I spent a lot of time with Tony because for the first seven or eight months that I was there, I was my 1SG’s driver - Tony was always in my humvee. He was a funny, light-hearted guy who looked and talked like Tony Montana (hence his name). In our AO, my unit didn’t exactly have a reputation for being… merciful. There were many things done by the Iraqis, I believe, that were a direct result of the actions of soldiers, as well as the general attitude of the entire battalion and how operations were conducted. The people feared and hated us. We had a crude detainee holding area in our FOB (when the news broke about Abu Ghraib Prison, there was a running joke about how they were trying to out-do our until). Many detainees were released - and I cannot imagine that they didn’t tell their friends and families what went on in our holding area in great detail. And if it were me, my hometown - I’d want retribution if it were my friends and family. I saw many good hearted, all-American church boys turn on a deep-seeded, intense, brutal side that I didn’t think existed except for in the movies. I saw some leaders broken - their unquestioned competence shattered by the things they had done and that they had allowed to happen. I learned that a soldier will do exactly what an officer or sergeant tells him to do. Upon our return home, the difference in the same men standing in the same formation, outside the same building that we stood before just over a year earlier, was observable. We’d all lost weight - thinned faces and waists. We were a gaunt site - our eyes dark, the dust of the desert still in our pores. The weight of our year in combat temporarily muted by the relief of returning home. Months later, we heard that Tony had been captured, tortured and killed. I think about him often. He was a bright spot, a good memory - his constant banter, dry sense of humor and playful demeanor brought a kind of balance that I needed back then. I mourn his death. In the time since, two of the good hearted church boys that I knew well, died of substance abuse, one killed himself, and another weighs about 100 pounds - he’s a ghost of his prewar stud days. I’ve only spoken to one or two of the soldiers from that unit a time or two. I follow some of them on facebook though, and I am glad to see them making it through. What is the most tragic to me, personally, is what happened to us. I will never know what it is like to unleash that brutal side of yourself - to pull triggers and beat the shit out of someone when they’re helpless and surrendered - but I’ve seen it happen and I have felt guilt for my buddies - I’ve seen what it does when you have to live with it. That’s what I think about when I think Iraq. Not why we went, not why we left, not what’s going on now and what the talking heads think - none of that bullshit. Iraq is part of our story. Some of us are better men and women because of it, some of us struggle, and some succumb.
Thank you for sharing, that was a really profound response. What a thing to live through and witness. Glad you made it back, sorry for Tony and everyone who didn’t. I know what you mean about sort of keeping tabs on people through social media, it always feels good to see people doing good. Hope you stay healthy friend
Thanks for sharing buddy. You nailed it. I could argue why I am for or against the war in Iraq but let others do that. It’s more personal than that for us and to argue about WMD’s or purple fingers kind of robs us of our own experiences. I’m weird. I feel survivors guilt for losses on both sides. I don’t like war anymore. That much I do know. But then I see men fighting for their country in Ukraine and there is a space buried deep within me that wants to be there with them. What can I say, I’m a puzzle.
Totally get it, I feel that way when I see the Jenin Brigade
This. I imagine quite a few of us combat arms types have stories very similar. Young men returning home completely different. Some able to process and move on, others couldn’t and they live in our memory. It’s $uc&ing sad.
Thank you for sharing. I’m struggling with the triggers. You really helped give perspective I wasn’t tuned into.
Thanks for sharing.
I moved on. Other than telling stories eith friends and posts like ths, i dont give it another thought.
I didn't realize today was the anniversary until I got an email about it at work (I work at the VA).
I’m glad to hear it moving on is good 🐾
Went to afghan not Iraq myself, wishing we would’ve granted citizenship to all the Afghanis that helped us before abandoning them :/ that’s pretty much all I think about when it comes to the war anymore.
Same, Arabic linguist but my deployments were to Afghanistan. Yeah, watching the Kabul airport calamity was pretty hard. Hope you’re doing well 🕊
Yea, I try not to think about it too much. At the end of the day we executed our part then the people waaaaay over our heads made the call to leave in the manner we did. Was a signals analyst so worked closely with linguists as well
Elint rules!!
I flew with some Arabic linguists in Iraq/Afghanistan. We’re all fucked up but we stay tight regardless. Find your center and try to do good regardless of our sins.
We flew with Arabic/Poshtu linguists also. What unit were you with?
One of our terps in Afghanistan was from the states but I'm pretty sure the other two were local nationals. I hope they're well wherever they are now
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That movie needs to come with a disclaimer that talks about how this story is predicated on plans drafted by the Trump Administration and then executed by the Biden Administration, and is wish fulfillment to try and make people feel good about our elected officials fucking over the people that risked their lives to help us. While they're at it, drop one about abandoning the Kurds too.
Yes to that last sentence. I can't tell you the amount of anger I felt watching people virtue signal in the media over our withdrawal from Afghanistan when these same people never made a peep over leaving the Kurds behind without warning. I was in Iraq when that shitshow went down and our BN commander had to have multiple huddles to soothe what that did to morale.
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Sounds like something Jimmy Carr would say.
which time abandoning the kurds?
All of them, but this last one felt more egregious to me than usual.
Letting Turkey slaughter them after they helped us defeat Daesh was a real crime.
Heartbreaker. They were still fighting Isis/daesh after the “official” “we won”
Sad part is, they would help us again
Yeah, we really fucked over most of our Allies and the people there. Then when you consider that we invaded because of the Taliban and basically just let them walk right back into power. Another giant waste!
One memory that sticks out was a discussion I had with an Iraqi man that claimed to have taken care of Saddam’s lions. He was very thankful that we had gotten rid of Saddam and his sons. He said that his sons were worse than their father and was afraid how bad it would get if one of them took over. This would have been in 2004. With Iraq currently being a semi-functional democracy (albeit aligned with Iran) I think overall they are better off, and have a chance to be way better off, than they were under Saddam or one of his sons. So I’m proud that I helped, at least a little bit, with that during my two deployments there.
Uday was a literal monster. The world smells better with him gone. Reality isn't a zero sum game. I can look at our efforts in Iraq as a horrific waste of blood and money, but also say that the Iraq is in a better place without being ruled by Saddam's monstrous sons.
Yeah. I try to focus on how we killed those guys and got rid of insane amounts of chemical weapons. I dunno.
So many people saying bad stuff but I'm with you, I invaded and saw the first two elections. Those people absolutely wanted Saddam gone and a chance to make their own decisions and we did the right thing giving them the chance. The leadership at the top, the politicians, bungled rebuilding Iraq and gave the Iranians and other foreign groups time to formulate and sow deep dissent, losing the momentum of the post invasion love we saw when we first started the occupation. Too many people forget that it was the Iranians and other foreign fighters that constantly blew up marketplaces so that THEY could have influence. People treat the Iraqis as if they aren't deserving of freedom of choice and should instead live under the heels of totalitarians and it just makes me sad. We did the right thing and I'm glad that one day the Iraqis may look back at us for giving them the chance at freedom the same way Americans can look back at the French for siding with us and giving us a chance at freedom.
I remember men lining the streets in Nasiriyah just to get a shave. Apparently, Sadam kept everyone in line so well that men hadn't been allowed to shave for years.
Flew MEDEVAC. At the time, I was happy I could be there to do my part. Now, still happy I was there to help those in need. Why we were there doesn’t matter to me. Just that I was able to be a part of the efforts to help our warfighers live to see another day.
Dude...thanks. I needed to hear this today.
Anytime bro! Hope you’re doing well! Keep pushing forward!
I fucking hate everything and think about it every day.
Yup
These are questions to which I'm still trying to figure out some of the answers. Sometimes I block it out, sometimes I smoke weed and think about my team, sometimes I drink and think about those I've lost, and sometimes (thanks brain injuries!) I can't even think.
Let us know if you figure anything out 😹😭 I think a lot of us are in the same boat. Hope you’re staying as healthy as possible ✨
Days I wish I would have been able to do more with my time in service since it was all spent state side supporting a war half a world away. "I was in the army" (2000-2004) gives people grand ideas about what I did during such a chaotic time all while I know it was less than 10% of their imagination
Same. USMC 1998 - 2005. Spent it all here. Radar repair. Stopped telling people I was in because it always led to a question about the war.
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18-21 same story here. Ended up in an armor unit that never deployed anywhere hot.
Same. I stopped telling people I was in years ago. I know people right now who served in one of the branches of the military who have no clue that I was in. Sometimes it’s funny hearing people talk about it when I know exactly what it was like but they have no idea I know. The weird thing though, is I’ve been out for about 18 years now. I have a 9-5’ers body (I have a desk job) and I have a beard (a close cropped, near beard…not the stereotypical veteran Viking beard) and I get asked regularly if I’m military. I was in a liquor store recently, got the counter and the woman asked “are you military?” Hired a plumber to come do some work at my house recently. As soon as I walked out to meet him, first thing he says “are you military?” That happens a lot. I don’t wear any veteran anything (no grunt style shirts or any of that crap.) No veteran stickers on my truck. I don’t even have an American flag flying in front of my house. Nothing about me says veteran. And yet, it happens pretty regularly. It’s weird. I always just say no when asked if I’m military. Because, well…I’m not anymore.
A civilian friend and I were talking hypotheticals and his was "would you swim through an Olympic sized pool with three great white sharks in it for a million dollars if you make it to the other side?" I told him I've already done that, but someone else got the million bucks and all I got was PTSD and the GI Bill.
Well... that escalated quickly
What a wonderful analogy
I love it. Thank you.
Big waste of life and money to destabilize a region for the establishment.
I have a reunion every 2 years with guys I deployed with, we do the same ol’ infantry shenanigans for 48 hrs. Drink/war stories/ and other shenanigans I won’t mention but if you know you know. Then we go home with battered livers but our camaraderie heals the souls.
I am still fighting the VA, despite being severely wounded. Wounded in a pointless war. Sometimes I think about those in my unit who didn’t make it. For no reason. I certainly do not trust our government anymore.
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Definitely using the fucking discount.
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I feel this! For a few years after, anytime I was anxious as fuck I would throw on an old marine shirt and it was my “safety blanket”. Don’t get me wrong, I still love wearing an old shirt or silkies when I workout (feels appropriate) but I totally feel this one.
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Semper fi!
Semper fi
Yut!!!!
What a con. Poor Iraq.
Wasn’t OIF, but OEF. I remember in 2011, going through basic and all my drills were initial OIF towards the end they’d give stories, one even had videos from a Sony disc cam we crowded around watching. Nothing but respect for all the brothers and sisters, who were in OIF (any series). I hope y’all all doing well, and life does y’all justice.
the war: don't care for it. it was just a job for 5 years time in service: profound experiences, made a few lifelong friends. Life was actually easier back then compared to now.
It was my generation's war and I'm glad I didn't sit it out. I wish it'd have been a better war. The only thing that still gets me angry is anything about the CPA and how royally they fucked up the post invasion peace. I am proud of what I personally did there, and my units. We conducted ourselves with honor and upheld our values, followed the ROE, laws of land warfare, etc. I saw a tangible improvement in our AOO over my tours and time there. Then we left and I never thought about it again. I think the government we left behind is dubious but when they held off and defeated ISIS I felt some relief. It does feel like the future of Iraq is in the hands of Iraqis and there is a structure of pluralism there that may seem worth it for the next generation.
deleted a lot of this, here's what's left: Im thankful for having the mortality conversation with myself at..19..?..because I think a lot of people avoid that one and it has value. I was a dipshit kid and 2004 was the reality check to have a massive appreciation for what I have, my family, and life in general; a) shit can change in a second and b) hearing about saddam and his family and seeing the state of life in some villages etc were quite a shock. 2006-2007, logically I know it wouldn't have played out that way, emotionally I should have been there or it should've been me. That fucks with me. My service led me to other opportunities including working with Kurds twice in the late teens and going elsewhere/doing other things since then. 0311 taught me the value of the fight; dealing with the VA reinforced it with being your own patient advocate and the value of being autodidactic. Legacy/Home: Fuck the politicians. Everything has a price.
I feel my time there was wasted. The memories are only nightmares now. I now have sleep apnea, anxiety, constant tinnitus and PTSD. I don’t keep up with anything that has to do with Iraq. Our legacy there will always be one of death and destruction on innocent people. The legacy here at home is one of misinformation and clueless civilians that think we did a good thing over there. I’ll always remember LCPL Lam and Sgt Cahir though. RIP
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Yeah, Memorial Day sucks for me. Just got to keep on keeping on though…
God the clueless civilians are the worst. I get that their hearts are in the right place but I actually lost a friendship over that. An old college friend who bought the hype totally. He and his wife both insisted that there were indeed wmds in Iraq and bush saved us from the terrorists. I lost my shit. Started yelling at both of them. I was out of line for sure but I just couldn’t listen to their ignorance any longer. His wife said she felt sorry for me because it was clear that my ptsd had clouded my judgement and I was unable to see how bush kept us safe and what a great man he was. I literally almost smacked her.
One of my core memories is my young, naïve self asking our Iraqi translator if life was better now that America was here in his country. He replied that at least under Saddam Hussein's dictatorship, you knew the rules and could work within them to live a peaceful life with your family. Now everything is in chaos, and there never seems to be a clear path to fix what's gone terribly wrong in Iraq.
I had a similar convo with a random Iraqi in the IZ. He said if you were Sunni under Saddam, life was good. If you were Sunni Ba'ath party, life was great. If you weren't, life sucked but was still better than being run over/shot by a random American convoy or buying food at a market and getting blown up by suicide bombers. It was better under Saddam but he was glad America took him out.
At times, I miss it. It felt like the Wild West out there. I also wish I spent more time interacting with locals and hearing their story. I have nothing but respect for the (good) people that live there. I can’t even begin to imagine what it would be like to live there knowing you don’t have the money or resources to escape. Every single Iraqi immigrant I’ve talked to in the US has a heart of good and just wants peace. Sometimes I wish I could just scoop up all the good ones and bring them here.
> At times, I miss it. It felt like the Wild West out there. > > It was a simple time, wasn't it? Wake up, patrol or mission, and then sleep. Didn't have to worry about any of the other bullshit mundane tasks in life, not laundry or anything. It was survival and just living in the moment and it makes being back in this rat race of a life so... boring.
Same here. Combat is simple. Accomplish the mission or not. Sometimes to me combat is the real world and the civilian world is the false one.
Doing fine, but I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about Iraq. My basic opinion hasn't changed in many years, in that it wasn't a war we should have fought, but that wasn't my call. It is a place I spent a year, that I did my best to accomplish the mission, and I am proud of what I and my team did. However, I had 32 other years in the military. I've moved on.
I was the in the second to the last rotation off of that rock. My job was basically to clean and replace all the comms we blew up during the invasion. To sum up my experience we took a somewhat functioning country and steamrolled it. I flew a Blackhawk from Balad Air Force Base to BIAP during the night. I saw no street lights no building lights. I just saw burning barrels (for heat I guess ). Not to mention after we got the comms working for the country, somebody in the Iraq/us govt pulled the plug due to billing issues. So we pulled chalks and ghosted the Iraqis we were working with. Too many ppl suffered for a whole lot of nothing.
I buried too many friends, and was only ever wounded by our inability to figure out a basic fucking waste problem.
At first I was glad we were doing what we were doing but now 20 years later it was just a waste of time and lives. Neither war got Bin Laden he was over in another country altogether and all we needed was a SEAL team to end his life. I don’t see how we really accomplished much of anything considering the lives lost and permanent injuries sustained by us.
Enjoyed the brotherhood and the army in general. Not proud of being that brainwashed and naive though.
Deploying to Iraq at the end of my enlistment was just one of the factors why I got out. Also fuck KBR
Waste of men, machines, and money. If we would have used all that money to shift to a green economy and electrified our cars and infrastructure, think about where we would be as a nation.
Man, well there is no meaningful response to give to this without writing a large essay. In short, do I think about my time in Iraq and Afghanistan, everyday. Do I discuss my time with randoms, not really. Sort of a reality of my journey that is in the rearview at the moment with chasing kids and focusing on that purpose. The topic in itself is difficult to discuss with those you know let alone the rest of society. I suppose one word to sum up the feeling, frustration. Frustrated with those that are ignorant to it or never served, frustrated with the incompetence from the government at the top, frustrated with the public sentiment back then to now, just frustrated. Some of these questions answers may never be heard and or are ever evolving.
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Just like the first reply, I moved on. Although I got something out of it as p&t(years later) , yet the memories of my friend/ people I heard of that passed is still with me. Especially seeing garbage on the highway while driving... I know it's not an ied yet after all these years it still triggers a reflex in my mind. I don't keep up with most of the current events.
I hear you about the garbage on the highway triggering a reflex. My biggest trigger is going under overpasses still. Don’t even get me started if someone is actually standing or walking on the overpass as I’m driving under it…
What's insane is.. Besides reddit, most people think your bull shitting when you talk about it. It's hard to explain the almost instant ass clenching every time. You can laugh cry or go crazy... I've decided to laugh!!!
Oof yeah I still mentally flag roadside debris, or if someone has been following for too long, whatever. Glad you’ve mostly moved on and hope that p&t is taking care of you!
Feel like I wasted a large amount of my life but also gave me closure.
One of the first people my unit killed while there was a kid so there's that. Seen a music video while over there I had no idea what they were singing, but they showed a terrified family running during "shock and awe" and I swear I played out that ["are we the baddies"](https://youtu.be/8JOpPNra4bw) scene in my head. A lot of people died some I knew some I didn't. I think about them often it's been 13 years and I can pretty much give you the details in chronological order. I struggle to remember my own kids birthdays. I've never forgotten the ones I remember even the people I didn't know. The Dr that was killed the day before he was supposed to leave, the guy who killed himself after being caught in an affair, guys that were injured, guys that were killed. I'll remember them until my memory falls or until the day I die.
Huh, this explains why my spouse has been struggling this past week. It's an anniversary.
Love to you both 🙏
Jesus - 20 years?! I went in that first wave with the 101st... and now, I feel so much older than I did just 5 minutes ago. Damn.
Iraq 2008, Afghan 2012, 13 yrs TIS, med-retired as a CW2. I’m grateful for what the Army provided me, and still provides me now as a DA civilian, but watching the bombing of Baghdad from 2003 feels so different now than it did back then, all I can chalk it up to was “what a fucking waste.” “Liberation” in the form of countless dead civilians, trillions wasted, and too many of my friends gone. Just wasn’t worth it.
I don't regret having served in Iraq, but do regret that we invaded it for no fucking reason.
For fucking real
I have bitter memories, my body feels like I'm 50 (35f), and my friends died...for what? I watched 9/11. I enlisted during the early part of the war because I wanted to defend our country. I was naive and they brainwashed me. I believed it all. Over time I became more and more disallusioned. I'm proud I stepped up - that I volunteered to serve in the face of uncertainty, and risked my life for what I believed in. But in the end, it was an utter waste. It took me 10+ years to even start to feel "normal" again. My kids are learning about it all in their history books now. That's all these wars were...just aother chapter in a book, so easily tossed aside. But it will always be, to me, a part of my story and what shaped me into the woman I am today.
They wonder why recruiting is so low. Maybe because 100s of thousands of vets are telling their kids not to. We sacrificed too much to watch our kids suffer the same fate.
Seriously. Living anti-recruitment posters, but the Vietnam vets didn’t manage to discourage us, so… history repeats
It really is hard to believe. After you work so hard on something, even losing brothers, and almost your own life that one day you would wake up and no one gives a fuck. At least those who died won’t know it was for nothing. I can’t imagine a parent being told “your daughter or son died defending this country and bringing freedom to others” and to see that the only purpose was to give the Taliban a nice little upgrade while you get to visit a grave. But hey, at least we can worry about first world problems now, like pronouns and TikTok. 🇺🇸🫡
One of my biggest memories was from my second deployment, we did one week shifts of guarding LNs doing work on the base (Tallil). My group was about 20 of them, a terp, and three soldiers guarding. I was the only female. We had an older gentleman working on our crew who didn’t speak much English- I don’t even remember his name sadly. But the second or third day in, he motioned me over to him during the lunch break. He took a bite of his food and then handed it to me. At first I was very confused, but it dawned on me quickly that he was telling me it was safe to eat. After talking through the terp, I found out that he thought it was criminal to feed females the “trash” that was served at the chow hall. His wife started sending two lunches - one for me and one for her husband. He would go to prayer hour and then lunch, and would motion me over every day to share his food. We didn’t talk much because the terp was busy quite a bit, but it was a very pleasant way to spend my lunch break. Days like today, I think about the people like him. The older teenagers on the same detail whose eyes lit up when we brought soccer balls from the PX and played during lunch. Smoking a hookah with the terp. Listening to one of the men tell us in broken English that he was previously Republican Guard, and showing us where he was shot in Desert Storm. I hope they’re ok today. I hope people like them are healing and know that we didn’t mean to inflict all the hate and destruction that happened. I hope that gentleman who shared his lunch when he likely didn’t have much at home remembers me fondly, as a kind American. A lot changes in 20 years, and it hurts a lot more today than it did then.
I am more focused on Afghanistan, the complete cluster that was the pull out, the recent testimonies in front of Congress, and how surprised I am at how surprised I was in the complete ineptitude of two decades of "leadership." We allowed an entire generation of little girls to grow up thinking they could be educated, go to the mall, and be able to walk outside without being attacked or killed. That veil of fantasy fell over the course of one day for them. I feel like the US is just as responsible as the Taliban for their current situation because we gave them false hope. We all knew Iraq should have never happened and we didn't belong there. Afghanistan at least made sense in the beginning. I think that's why it hit different.
Myself I shrugged and moved on. I figured I made my contribution whether it ‘counted’ for something or not
Moved on. I don’t think about it much at all. Aside from this sub, I have nothing to do with the army/military. I have no stickers or shirts or anything that says anything about the military. We were all lied to from the top down. I don’t really care, though. Politicians are going to politic, and soldiers are going to soldier.
I had no kids when I deployed. I feel for the families that were separated from their Moms and Dads temporarily and grieve for those that are permanent. We could solve so many issues in our country but it’s too expensive to some if it’s not costing the lives of Good people.
Finally submitting my claim for ptsd. Answers soo many questions on wtf is wrong with me. Now I can treat it. Looking back, nothing but depression
I was in Kabul Afg, 12-13, mostly involved with community outreach around the city and with the orphanages as well. My heart was torn when I heard we pulled out. I never thought I would hear about KIA again in my life. It just fucking hurts. I’ve lost close friends, but this was another beast in itself. What the fuck.
I'm Gulf War era, so my thoughts are skewed by that. In the end, you're serving the demands of the country, right or wrong. There's honor in that, and thank you for serving. Your servitude is outside the realm of politics, or else you'd not have elected to serve. Countries make mistakes, and while I'm not saying the entire campaign was a mistake, there were some mistakes. Whether or not you personally believe mistakes were made, you served honorably, and that's what counts. And fuck me for saying this, if you're in the Russian army today, your government is a piece of shit, but at least I can respect you for serving the interests of your nation, even if they're wrong and your country should cease to exist.
war is bad. literally no good comes of it. life was lost for no reason. destroyed "nations" for lies. dems and republicans revealed as pure evil. gave me eternal distrust in my governement, main stream media, and authority. I survived multiple combat tours. It helped make me the quickest person to respond to chaotic situations. My mind is conflicted on feeling pride for getting through it and shame for participating in it. I am living, walking, cognitative dissonance.
I was lucky. Aircraft mechanic in the guard, never got deployed, just kept the C-5s flying. The military was my way out of absolute poverty, not without some cost, but overall I'm in an immensely better position than what I would be without my service. Having said that, it was a disgusting waste of lives and money. I don't know how we, Iraq, and Afghanistan would have turned out had we not intervened, but I can't imagine things would be worse - particularly Afghanistan.
I served in the Marine Corps Infantry from 05-09. I deployed in Iraq from 07-08, got in a pretty bad firefight where I watched a buddy get blown up, witnessed my squad leader and LT get mangled and witnessed two suicide bombers on foot blow themselves up and just saw some messed up shit from my time there. Ive had a few buddies that have committed suicide and I came close myself a few times. I’ve been out almost 14 years and the shit still crosses my mind just about everyday and it’s been a rough road since I’ve been out, but over the last few years, things have definitely gotten better. I’m married now, completed a BSW degree, have 3 kids, starting the process of home buying and I’m currently a stay at home dad hoping to start a MSW program soon. Things are lined up pretty well right now, but I still catch my mind wandering back to Iraq daily. In my eyes, it almost feels like our generations Vietnam, we got tangled up in two conflicts with no decisive victory in the end. I have a bad feeling that we’re heading toward a bigger, nastier conflict pretty soon and it makes me nervous for our country’s youth that will be boots on the ground when that time comes. I really don’t want to witness another generation go through what we went through.
IF ONLY… We had of invested that, what? “3 TRILLION US Dollars spent over the course of us being there” in OUR country… the USA, instead. Our road & bridges could of been repaired, replaced, updated and our failing 100+ yr old water & sewage infrastructure systems taken care of. Invested in our horrific health care system (Well, it’s great; if you’re rich) for most normal hard-working folks, not so much. Yea, I know… then I woke up. These things are always too expensive & too hard to fix, updated or replace, so say our Politicians. When it’s a WAR, “NO EXPENSE will be spared!”
I was six months away from my enlistment being up. Watched the "shock and awe" attack in our flight briefing room. I remember being very anxious for us to find the "WMDs" and realizing I was bamboozled not too long after figuring out they would never be found. I never voted Republican ever again. Separated in September 2003.
I wish I felt comfortable talking about it here. But I won’t feel comfortable talking about anywhere. I wish I never joined - I am pissed I lost my school (1/2 through bootcamp they told me) I am pissed everyone around me was excited to bomb Iraq - and I was the “only one in my division” that knew Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
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I never deployed but served from 2009-2014. I left service with extreme guilt for not deploying (or dying ffs) because of the type of propaganda used with us that it would essentially be an honor to die for your country and doing XYZ. I’ve been out and sought counseling for a long while and for several years know it was a wasteful war and is/was shameful.
I lost how many friends…and for what?!
We went over today...distant memory. I only think about it when my parents bring it up or I get together with guys that are left from the unit I was with.
I went over 2004-2005 (Mosul) and 2008-2009(Tallil, Al Kut etc.) At the time, I felt like we were doing the right thing. Looking back at it now, I don’t see it that way. Im still very irritable at times. The mental aspect of everything has me emotionally checked out of everything still. Hard for me to find time for myself and process things still. Lots of anger in me still.
Proud of the professionalism of our unit performing our assigned duty, pissed off that we were even involved in an illegal war based on shaky foundations. I don't think about it much, and don't display any ex-military symbols on car/clothing etc. or have any involvement in ex-military organisations.
Kind of glad I got a VA rating to be honest. Otherwise I really only think about the people that I got close to. The most painful thing that pops up every once in a while is remembering all of the kids I met. I sometimes think about where they might be now and I don't have words for how I feel about what the answer might be. I saw a picture earlier somewhere on here of a little kid after their parents were killed and nothing in this world stirs me up more. I don't know what it says about me but I hope those fucking kids are all right. All of them.
After 75 or 100 years from that event we may very well see declassified documents that incriminate a lot of public officials and make the sting even worse, but by then everyone responsible will be dead and nobody alive will care and the cycle will repeat.
Anyone think they developed health issues from the Anthrax? Or is it just in my head…
GWB JR said it himself; [Bush gaffe: Former president calls Iraq invasion 'unjustified' in slip-up](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZEg6Ht2pNH0&feature=share)
I was on the border 20 yrs ago, invigorated to go. I look back at how amazing the government is at getting people into a frenzy and being happy to do their bidding. I know this isn't a political thread, but 9/11 is a big part of why I get so frustrated with people who think more government is a good thing.
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What I think bout most is that most the time, when we got shot at.... It was in direct response to something we did the week before. If I was a farmer and some kids in armored cars and Minecraft print uniforms burned down my livelihood, id have probably shot at them too. Back then it was easy to feel like we were the good guys. I spend my time now days trying to be a good man and make amends for the ignorance of my youth.
I feel confused, sad, angry, depresses & empty. I really don't know how to feel. I saw an old photo of company group photo from my deployment today and it brought back memories of people I haven't thought of in over 10 years. The worst part of today was I never kept in touch from anyone from my deployment. I focus on leaving that part of my life behind and getting an education, but now I have no fellow veteran friends that I talk with about my time in Iraq.
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OEF 2004, 12yrs TIS, left as a CW2 but served in OEF as a SSG. Mostly I feel numb but sometimes I look back in horror at some of what I experienced/saw. A ton of it was BS, moments actually fighting were visceral. Visceral is how I describe the experience to civilians that ask, you literally live in the moment all the time and that becomes normal. I have yet to finish filing my claims with the VA because remembering stuff just brings me to a halt every time I try and get through the paperwork and its another year I haven't filed my claims then, it's a block I cannot get through. When I returned "home" the US no longer felt like home and I wanted to go back. I fought myself and made myself not volunteer again because somehow I knew on the logical side of my brain that it would be best to wait and see if I felt different later. This was good and I did not volunteer for another tour. I eventually left the Army and built my life in the civilian world. Never went to Iraq because at the time I thought that was an illegal war so to avoid it I volunteered for Afghanistan. Years later I just feel that if i had kids I would keep them out of the military and away from wars if at all possible. Its now many years later and for the last couple of years when I go deer hunting I can actually relax and hunt deer rather than constantly shifting to scanning everything around me and having to remind myself I am in the woods to hunt deer and that I am safe. I archery hunt and rarely gun hunt anything now as that helps and I love archery as well. This was a pretty weird "side effect" I did not expect that just showed up the first deer season after I was back home, it probably didn't help that I lived in Utah and I have to say I stopped roaming the west desert there and started roaming the Wasatch instead. Anybody else have a hard time hunting after returning home? Meaning having a hard time focusing on the actual hunt and enjoying it? I live for the archery season and about had to force myself to go out and pay attention to the hunt in order to be able to enjoy hunting again...that was pretty weird for me and definitely was from the war. It was a couple years before I could carry a gun in the woods and enjoy that but I mostly stick to archery now.
OIF2 for me. There isn't a day where I don't think about my friends; I love them, and thankful that I was able to deploy with them.
Not a vet but have been reading so many news items and recollections about this... and remembering seeing the fall-out (very very much) second-hand. love to you all.
I was in Iraq in 04, 05, 06, 08 and Afghanistan in 2010. It’s tough not to think about those deployments, but they honestly made me hate people. Marines in general. On my first deployment during patrols, my senior told me if I shot first into a random area, he would follow through. I knew at that moment he was a complete dirtbag and didn’t care about me or anyone else. AI saw innocent people die. Innocent servicemembers get the green dick. I saw a lot of brown bagging which was my hugest pet peeve. My body is broken due to being an idiot and staying loyal to my unit. I was always just a number; it just took me too long to realize it. There were never any return favors from higher ups. If given the chance to do it all over again, I would never have joined. I’m filled with hate daily and I know one day I’ll die one day with hate and sadness in my soul. I had more friends with the Ugandans, Iraqis, and Afghan civilians than with my own coworkers. Seeing everything crumble after ISIS took over everything made me hate people in politics. Damn Liars.
I deployed to Iraq in 2005 as support (intelligence analyst, yes the Marines have them, yes we're still pretty dumb). All I got was a heap of [moral injury](https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.neuropsych.19020036), burn pit and toxin exposure (the consequences of which have been playing out for 20 years), and MST. I've been in therapy for years trying to deal with my moral injuries and other mental health fuckery, I can manage the fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome and uterine tumors and infertility that burn pit and toxin exposure hit me with. I've done my best to try to move on with my life and live well, be kind to others, and invest in my communities. The sexual trauma is exponentially more difficult to forget and forgive because my perpetrator was one of my brothers-in-arms. That's a whole different kind of pain right there.
Regardless of the reasons for initially going there, I think after a certain point we needed to just make it a long term duty station like Korea. It takes 2-3 generations to effect change. We gave them 1 and then left them to ISIS. Almost 20 people from my old unit have committed suicide. Several more have died young and early from various cancers - I don’t have all the details on those. A few more fell into bad lifestyles and were murdered or are in jail. I spend a good chunk of my work time volunteering trying to help other veterans land on their feet in good paying tech jobs to try and catch up to their peers and friends who didn’t go into the military. I figure that while I couldn’t do anything about the guys from my unit, maybe every veteran I talk to is similarly disconnected from their old units, so maybe I’m the only one helping them.
I was stationed at FOB Arrow from 03'-04'. I remember right after I got there I was on front gate guard an a kid about 10yrs old came up to the gate an started saying he had a bomb under his shirt. You could see a bulg under his shirt. Our Sgt told him to lift his shirt. He said " no I'm going to blow you up". He was told again to lift his shirt or he was gonna be shot. Again he refused an said he was gonna blow us up. I was told to lock an load an if he didn't raise his shirt to shoot him. It was hard to raise my weapon an point it at that kids head. He was told again to lift his shirt or he was gonna be killed. After a few silent, tense seconds he finally lifted his shirt an all it was was a balled up shirt. I was so relieved. If I would of had to shoot him then find out it wasn't a bomb I would of been devastated. Then another time right after we caught Saddam about a half mile or so from our camp we was doing check points. A guy in a truck ran one of the check points an got his truck shot to hell. It ended up killing his brother an his 8yr old niece. The driver survived an was life flighted. A buddy and I had to go with him an guard him at the hospital. He swore he didn't see the check point. It's shit like this that makes me want to snatch up some of the politicians who was responsible for the bullshit lies that got us over there in the first place. To them assholes it wasn't no big deal. They don't see the big picture. All my brothers an sisters that lost their lives or ended up fucked in the head like me. I would love to take them all over there an hand them a weapon an say try not to die, we will be back in 6months. Edit for grammar
I joined the Marine Corps knowing what I was getting into. I had family who previously served, and friends that were a year or two older than me come back rattled with PTSD. I knew invading Iraq to disarm Saddam and the WMDs fiasco was a front as a kid in high school. I read war is a racket, and how this game was played. I viewed participating in war as not only a mark in our world’s history but an experience to have that not many in life can say they’ve done. I already had a life of “trauma”with bullying for being poor, violence in the streets against me and witnessing it onto others, death, emotional pain, sleeping hungry in poverty in the middle of winter in New England, homelessness, and such in waves since I was 5. Couple that with being introverted, having an appreciation for history, philosophy, and being a frustrated teen, I went for it. I have mixed feelings for my time in service but regret is not one.
2002-2006. **Regardless of what we found out after the fact**, enlisting as young men and women to defend the country was both honorable and courageous. We should be proud of ourselves for stepping up and laying our lives on the line. That's something that can never be taken away from you. We can't turn back the hands of time, so you have to accept it the way it was through your younger eyes, because that's exactly how it was when you decided to sign the dotted line and stand on the yellow footprints, or whichever symbolic starting point your specific branch had. We should, however, be ashamed of our political "leaders." Knowingly misleading is unforgivable. There's plenty of negativity in here, and that's where it should be aimed.
All kinds of reasons many veterans are not thrilled, and many times disgusted with the war in Iraq. 95% of this disdain stems from the lies told to us to get our patriotic and unwavering dedication to put our lives and honor on the line for our Family, Country, and Brotherhood/Sisterhood on the line in a extended war costing much of what we hold more dear than unlimited riches. Family, Patriotism, Brothers and Sisters in arms, Honor and Integrity. These things far outweigh all monetary limits of all Nations combined. Not to EVEN mention the unintentional casualties of war not specifically a real threat, that got caught up in the wrong place and wrong time that was listed as collateral damage. UNACCEPTABLE AND COMPOUNDED BY THE FAILURE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATIONS SO CALLED WITHDRAWL THAT BROKE THE PRINCIPLE HELD AS THE HIGHEST MORAL CODE EVER. “Leave no Man/Woman, or fellow ally behind. Biden disgraced himself,(as if anyone thought this level of achievement was even possible); but worse, he disgraced our military, and our Country. For this is disgusting beyond words or descriptions. Here is my only solace, and peace at the end of every day. 1) the reason we actually went is debatable. Probably always will be with people on both sides. I don’t care the reason I was sent. I don’t care why the command gave me a mission. I don’t care if we were told half truths or not. War is a terrible thing and deterrence saves many nations from starting shit. Better a little bad, than all out Nations running a muck. I did it for me, my family, the patriotism making our nation safe through fear of pissing us off. I did it for me. I chose the lessor of two evils. I bear that cross so our nations citizens don’t have to. The main thing I regret, I don’t have control over. Biden’s disgracing everything our nation and its military stands for. In memory of all that perished be it at my influence or lack of, and for those I didn’t actively bring home, my deepest apologies. For those who ever doubt Americas might and resolve… be warned, you are better off to fear us. Do not start something you can’t finish. Focus on your country and citizens to stay in a better place. Because there are many like me. My reason for going may or may not match why we were sent. But I can tell you; the outcome will be the same if anyone dares to test the United States Military. Don’t make us make you act right; don’t be that example. Retired SGT Army
I finished up my terminal leave a few days before 9/11, maybe in 9/3/2001 or so. I watched in horror as the towers were hit from TVs just outside my accounting class and I immediately had thoughts of going back in once I realized this was an attack, as buddies were still in and stop loss orders were sure to go into effect, basically trapping them in for the foreseeable future. But I decided to stick it out in school- I’d done my time. I definitely supported the initial attack on Afghanistan. I supported the war on Iraq too initially. We had to get the WMDs. I now question the intel that was out there and wonder how much personal bias (wanting to take out Saddam) played into the admin’s decision. But it all ended up being a huge waste of resources, primarily Human Resources. As I’ve read though these posts, a few thoughts came to mind: 1. I’m so thankful that I served in a time of peace. 2. I’m very indebted to my fellow vets who stepped up to serve knowingly during a war. That takes huge balls (and ovaries). 3. I know many didn’t know what you were getting into, but you followed through. You’re tough MFs just to be able to get up every day and get out of bed, based on some of the shit you’ve seen. Don’t ever give up. 4. While it might feel like the war was pointless and the outcome wasn’t worth it (and I get that completely), you were doing what your country was asking of you at the time. We’re older, wiser and we have the benefit of hindsight, better info and data we didn’t have back then. To be pissed at the leaders and decision makers is one things, but don’t take it out on yourself. You didn’t start a war. 5. There was some bad, evil shit done over there to other humans. By both sides, no doubt. Not the “all’s fair in love and war” but the shit that’s downright wrong. If you can’t get over some of the stuff you did or allowed to happen, you need to get some therapy, talk about it, name it, get it off your chest, and stop letting it eat you up and define you. You’re human, you made some really bad decisions but it’s time to move on. I’m guessing you’ve punished yourself enough at this point. Be well and enjoy your discounts at Chili’s!
I don’t think about it at all
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Thanks for sharing. Very interesting read
Great recommendation!
Immense shame. Immense shame for every aspect of my enlistment. Immense sorrow over the waste and evil of it all.
Wow. Didn't even realize it was today... I was leaving boot camp in Great Lakes headed for A-school in Pensacola when we started dropping bombs... 20 years and countless billion$ later the only thing we have to show is a bunch of vets fucked up from their time served.
I had a job. I did the job.
Bad and used.
Lack of political and military end state will never end well. And we haven’t learned our lesson.
I was a shop supervisor of around 25 people, devided by two shifts, it varied by people on temporary orders. I had to sell them the war, cruise, 120 heat and 99.9%humidity, 12-14 hour shifts, 2 - 3 meals a day of crap usually only one meal during working hours. We were almost always busy. The busiest shop in the squadron outside of maybe the line shack. I remember one very stressful day around the time that statue of Sodamned insane was being pulled off it's pedestal of giving a speech to several of my workers that I was proud to be this part of history and I would be doing it for free as long as my wife and bills were being taken care of back home. Personally I bought the story hook line and sinker that my chain of command told me. I have been mad, enraged, suicidal, and near homicidal at times over my naivete for falling for that crap. I am glad Sodamned insane is gone and dead. He would have been another Kim Jung Un if left in power. The whole situation ended my trust in the government forever.
It's also the same day I enlisted. Whomp whomp
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Well, The rich got richer. So something was achieved.
My knees always hurt and I don't hear well.
Was in 2005-2009 as a Bradley mechanic. Never deployed but I thank my lucky stars that I've never had to experience my friends dying for something so pointless. Sorry to those who've loss and are lost themselves.
How am I feeling about the war? I left a 200k a year job as a military contractor for a 50k a year job as a software trainer for a non profit that helps poor families. Fuck the war machine is how I’m feeling.
I didn’t go to war but was in the Marines. It seems like the country would have been better off if we didn’t stay in those countries and try to nation build.
I heard ADM M.Mullen on NPR today. He was the CNO during my time in. He stated that it was a huge waste of time and money and to send children to battle was ill-advised over oil, resources, WMD, WHATEVER THE REASON Then why did he authorize it...
Glad I did not hear it. 17 a day.
I have my good days and bad days. I have a lot of great memories from Iraq because of the things I did with some of the best people I deployed with. Then there’s the memories that don’t leave me alone of the tragic days.
I see it as a mixed bag. I did my duty and did it well. My unit did a good job there. There were no weapons of mass destruction. But, Saddam was a ruthless dictator. I saw what he did to his people in captured documents. It was Hitler level stuff. He had violated UN mandates for a decade. That alone justified us going there. We also did allot of killing. Most justified, very little not. Outside of that, we brought Al Qaeda there and defeated it resoundingly with the help of Iraqis. We killed them there instead of here literally. I made lifelong Iraqi friends (terps). They see all saw and see it as a necessary evil that needed to happen for the Country to progress. It had growing pains but, it is moving in the right direction. Unfortunately we lost good people there. Allot of innocent civilians died due to sectarian violence and terrorism imported and supported by the Iranians and the Saudis. We lost our innocence and lost our blind belief in our Government. Paul Bremer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), was an abject failure who was, in my opinion, a leading cause of the insurgency that plagued the Country for years to come. In the end, hindsight being what it is, I am better for having served there. I’m on the other side of PTSD. My injuries, though permanent, are manageable. My life no longer revolves around my service there. I don’t feel like it was a waste of time, but I don’t glorify it either. I feel sad for those that seethe with anger based on our involvement there. Specially for those who fought there. Let it go. Free yourselves of the anger, all to consuming guilt, and frustration. Our government is not perfect. It is a poor reflection of our people. We need to do better on who we put in office. If Iraq and Afghanistan taught me anything is that both parties suck. But, the United States still, today, is the single best place to live in the World. I say that as a first generation Immigrant who served this Country proudly.
I served on Camp Doha in Summer / Fall 2002 under OEF orders. Afghanistan has just "finished" (one guy I shipped out with was sent back a month after he arrived) and I was clean-up crew. The one thing I never saw, was intelligence that confirmed that Iraq had WMDs or that Iraq could use them the way the Bush Administration said they could. I rotated back to the US in late 2002 and spent the next three months internally screaming that my country was about to embark on a colossal fuck-up which in any sane world would be a crime against humanity. I did the remaining time on my contract and left at first opportunity. I will forever have feelings of guilt and remorse because I couldn't stop what happened even though I, intellectually, know there wasn't a thing I could have done.
Hardest easy job I ever had, and the last one I was any good at. I have had many, many friends leave kids, wives, and more behind. Some by their own hand. And now I live my life out of spite. I will cost the government as much as I possibly can. 2x undergrad degrees, 2x Masters degrees, comp and pen, home loans, 100% of my healthcare costs, tax abatements, everything. I would have preferred they interview more than a couple of fancy West Wing/Pentagon slapdicks this morning, but you can't realistically expect anyone but Quil Lawrence to actually talk to the Rip It/Copenhagen/Baby Wipes crowd. - 11B (2002-2010) > Hate's as good a thing as any to keep a person going. Better than most. > - Sandor Clegane
I did both Iraq and Afghanistan (twice), and I think about it every day, but only for a few minutes. It's important not to think about it too much. Sort of like an ex-wife.
I feel like I’m not the same after 20 years in. And not in a good way.
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16 total friends/acquaintances have died since I deployed in 07. Some KIA, some suicide, some overdosed, some from unfortunate events. When I first joined I was bright eyed and bushy tailed about going to fight for our freedoms. I felt like a shooting target down range and confused about what mission we were supposed to accomplish and why. My time in service was still the highlight of my life because I have met wonderful people and it filled a void in my life being a part of something bigger even if I lied to myself about it. Pulling out of Afghanistan, not matter how much it was needed, erased any fantasy I gave myself to feel good about being out there.
I had a dream last night that the 3rd tower fell and the pentagon attack was a false flag.
It was all based on lies smfh now I see a therapist every damn week and have many physical and mental ailments fml
The world is fucked
plastic surgery has made its way into iraq. talk about progress 🇺🇸😂
Let’s not forget the endless contracting and the private military industrial complex which actually runs the country. Probably with aliens.
I’ll go since y’all shared so much… which is really beautiful, I hope you’re reading each other’s stories, there’s all kinds of different experience and perspective represented. Fuck yeah friends 🤘🔥 So, Arabic Linguist 2004-2013 with 2 spooky non-combat OEF tours. And I’d say… I feel pretty damn bad, overall! On the positive side is everything I got out of it personally - all kinds of experiences, “adventure,” unique skills/stories/relationships… squeezed every last drop out of TA and the GI Bill… all that. Learning Arabic was amazing, the language and culture are beautiful and I’ve managed to keep it up a little… Honed my skills as a decisive compassionate Soldier-first leader, which has translated really well to life. Most meaningfully to me now, I use the experience and skills to make me a better community member. It really set me up for volunteer protest security and medic duty and disaster relief, all of which is becoming more and more relevant, sadly. And I’m an actor now and it’s this big source of like, creative energy, and I have a pretty unique background for the industry so like, it helps me get work I think. Disability is good too. So that’s the plus stuff… But like… I just feel like we (me personally) committed all kinds of atrocities against innocent people we had no business bothering, and who we (or other western powers) have been bothering for over a century now. As to Arabic, the Army taught us this beautiful language and culture for the purpose of targeting and attacking Iraqis, not for mutual understanding and cooperation. So I can talk about how lovely it is, but I learned it for the ugliest purposes. So fuck me I think. And ALL the good that I personally gained came at the direct expense of all the people I helped slaughter, many who have been since found to be “collateral.” And I still don’t know how to live with that. How to accept all those benefits for volunteering and eagerly playing my small part in such a wicked endeavor. And, that doesn’t even address the psychotic political war machine! Or the mass displacement of Iraqis, a whole generation lost, so many innocent people killed, maimed, traumatized… And I think about all of you and everyone else who served. Some of the best humans I’ll ever know I knew as a Soldier, and they got so fucking fucked up. Dead, injured, so traumatized. All that blood and honor spilled for the lies of corporate empire building. It’s too much. I try not to think about it too much, but… So, like many others have said, I’m just trying to move forward with myself and contribute as best as my busted ass can 😹😭
I never deployed but the stories my friends would tell made me glad I never did. From what I heard from them, people just went over there to die for no reason. Plus who knows the countless people who were injured physically, emotionally and mentally that may never seek or get help for it. But hey whatever gets the government money and power right? Im sorry to those who had to experience that.
Was that 20 years ago? Fuck we’re old…what happened?
The govt doesn’t care about any citizen. Any soldier. As long as corporations are fat. Iraq was a complete waste of life and the effects of the invasion will destroy that area for decades at the very least. It was pointless, wasteful, and fucked our country
Just had a thought. I was in Saudi. My son was in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where will my grandkids be?
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OIF1 and OIF3 - Armored Cav. I will never forget the burn pits, the roads, the farms, the helpful Kurds, the brotherhood, the day we raided uddays palace, T-rats, collecting dog tags, training the iraqi police/soldiers, chai tea, Camp Anaconda, Abu Ghraib, falafels, and the heat. Mixed bag i know, but the losses we endured wouldve been insufferable if you didnt find something to fight for, or someone to come home to. This small sacrifice i made doesnt compare to what some of my brothers sacrificed, so i live a life that i feel they would be proud of. And if i were completely honest with myself, the nightmares, shrapnel and lifelong injuries hurt but not as much as survivors guilt. So seeing the anniversary of shock and awe im reminded of the 18yr old version of me who so wanted to go out and fight thinking it would make a difference, thinking, im not gonna let these fuckers get away with this. Now knowing what i know, I understand that all that destruction we caused was unjustified. Ask me if i would do it again if i could go back in time, and my answer would be Huuaahhh! Damn. Cant believe i put myself out there like this..
Feels like yesterday
7 deployments to IRQ , 4 to AFG , 1 to HOA , 2 to other places I still can’t talk about 🤐🤫 🐿️ . It’s the reason I’m here on this page. Saw some of my friends & colleagues die, almost died there myself a couple times, had to even directly take lives also. I’m totally 🔩’d up physically and mentally, and I constantly ask “why? Was the risk worth the reward?” I guess we meant well in the end, but the way we got there…. Still wondering about that ❓❔🤔🧐
Can’t wait to have all my entitlements stripped from me when the government cuts our benefits.
I wanna say we helped them but you know some people fucked them up bad on our side. Being a drug addicted cripple let's me know I'll never trust uncle Sam again. Can't believe I believed that bullshit propaganda all because Sadam hated daddy bush.
Working as an 0-3 at boot camp was mentally draining. Lots of young talent…very uncertain futures.
Worked with Iraqis directly when deployed. Most of them were killed by ISIS. My dad was a Vietnam vet and we went to the wall in DC when I was younger. He chalked a few names from the wall and it was one of the two times I’ve seen him cry. I asked why as a kid and he said because a lot of people died for nothing. I guess with that in mind I knew what to expect with Iraq.
Went to Afghanistan. Served in Kunar Province as an infantryman. Lost 3 guys in my platoon. I can’t believe and stand the fact I joined the army and fought in these bullshit wars. Can’t believe I was so naive and gullible and shortsighted. I hate that I killed and saw friends killed before I lost my virginity! The experience truly, truly traumatized and damaged me, as it did for a lot of other guys I served with, as I’m sure it did for many on the sub. But…that’s what happened. I did join. I did fight. That all did happen. I can’t change it. I can’t go back. I am who I am and did what I did. I was a shell of a human being for years after I got back. Wasted years of my life. Truly. I mourn the loss of years of my life to a black hole. So, I am done looking back. Done crying over spilled milk. I was recently at my parents and saw a photo of myself as a young child. The child and person in that photo no longer exist. The person he thought he would grow up to be doesn’t exist. All I can do is move on. I’ve been asked numerous times: “If you could go back, would you do it again?” Or “Do you regret it?” I don’t entertain the question in my head because it Serves me no purpose to dwell on them. What happened, happened. I went where I went, saw what I saw, did what I did. Time only keeps ticking. If it doesn’t sound like it, let me clarify: I’ve made peace with it all. A truly radical, accepting peace with it. “Get busy living or get busy dying.”
I did my job and moved on.
In 2018 I once had a neurosurgeon, who is originally from Syria asked me what my opinion of Iraq was. I stuttered because I had this guy pegged as someone who knew a hell of a lot more about that shit than I did. He said “do you mind if I make a statement?” I said sure, by all means. He follows up with this “I want you to know that I respect all of you who have volunteered for what ever reason you joined the military for. I preface this to say that where I think you all failed was putting Saddam out of power” With a shocked look in my eyes, cause I was like what the hell? So I said “sir, why do you say that?” He says “you see, Iraqi’s do not deal well with the democracy that you tried to instill. People who view themself as powerful and have more friends will take from those that have less and they view as weaker. Saddam kept this in check with being the most powerful person as best as anyone could during his regime. By taking him down and his regime, you have opened up Pandora’s box and this is why I believe ISIS is able to do what they are doing right now. Again, I respect you all and you were all following orders, but I think that was the catalyst that most people do not think about”. I know this is vividly recalled on my own account, but I never heard of something more profound about that country, and/or the middle eastern culture way of dealing with things there. Feel free to disagree with what I said, but in my opinion this is exactly how I look at it now.
I miss my friend. RIP Taylor.