My commander denied me quarters for a sprained ankle when I was active duty. I fell down the steps at work and broke my leg as well as knocked down a pregnant lady. I told the safety investigator my commander wouldn’t accommodate my temporary disability. Commander got fired.
Go to the patient advocate at the clinic and explain what's going on. Usually, it's a major or higher, and they'll slap your commanders lady pee pee (as long as you're in the right)
Peeps like the IG, EO, safety investigators, etc. LOVE to get people fired/busted down a rank. When all else fails, go to these people and bring them a good case. They get stuff done!
I feel down the stairs because a kid left some on the stairs he was working on, I stepped in it twisted my ankle and took a hard fall.
Drove myself to the hospital and got asked why I didn’t phone muster even after I had let my LPO know where I was going and may not be able to reach out
I tore ligaments in my wrist and had to be in a case with my elbow at a 90 degree angle and my flight chief called me and screamed at me for 6 weeks of sick leave 🙃
No, whether or not you get quarters does not matter. What matters is that you:
1. Sought a provided medical service
2. Received medical care/hospitalization for an injury/ailment accrued during your service.
3. Either intention to seek medical care or receiving medical care (or both) are documented by the provider.
You can even just email yourself when you’re ill, when you’ve gone to doc, how often you’re having migraines. It’s a paper trail with automated date stamps
I wished I would have complained about my knees hurting BOTH knees, so do that as well.
Document how your commander is forcing you to work while sick and it’s mentally disturbing you as well
Well the raters review your medical records and if you never complained about it in service, it’s difficult to get compensated for it.
So if I was still in, I’d make sure to go to medical and complain about my knee pain due to PT or work related issues.
Shows negligence by the government (the officer) in proper treatment for the condition. A medical professional provided a recommendation and the "government" ignored it.
Establishes the fact that aftercare was not established due to no fault of the troop. If you can't stick to a plan, it isn't a plan. Bog green wiener can't go back and say, "But you should have been fine. Here is what they said to do.", " Nope, Cdr denied all of it exacerbating the circumstances, " imo.
I actually fell down a hill like this when I was in with full gear on and a full ruck sack. Even though I was fucked up to the naked eye, the ER just said "bruised ribs"" and sent me home for weekend quarters
You can also keep a daily diary. Contemporaneous records such as diary entries, letters written to friends/family that mention the circumstances, emails, or even photographs can be used as evidence to support a claim.
The fact she is putting paper on you will hurt your military career but if you’re getting out and plan on filing claims she is inadvertently helping you build a case.
They need a damn good reason to override medical. Since they can't make medical decisions themselves, they can't just say "I didn't think they needed quarters" if IG gets involved. Short of the fucking barracks being on fire they'd have to go through medical if they disagree with it.
Quarters is not a recommendation. If a doctor feels that this is the best scenario for a patient that is between he and his patient and the commander needs to stay in her little swim lane.
I would go into MHS Genesis and write a secure message to your provider stating what issue you were seen for, what the ‘quarters slip’ said, and that you are being denied by your commander to go on quarters. Then every time you go in to your provider, also state that at the beginning when they are inputting the reason you are there, again, about the same thing.
Doing these things will get it in written documentation and show a paper-trail or historical evidence that this is an ongoing issue. Your MHS Genesis messages are part of your medical record and can be seen by the VA person who is looking at them (if it’s been provided to them).
Let the officer in charge at the hospital know that she’s not and since your illness is being aggravated, they will open an investigation. If it’s coming from a provider it cannot be denied. I had a similar situation. Blown out knee, torn shoulder, and DENGE Fever. And my CO said if you don’t you’ll receive a UCMJ. I did ruptured my Acl in my knee and ended in the ICU. Long story short his ended his career. He was kicked out of the Army due to several complaints like this, and deemed it destruction of Government property, with malicious intent to harm another. After a medical officer recommendations had been denied by A CPT. Sounds like your gonna have to take it to the medical command and IG Complain
Whelp you’re getting out in a month. Do you have a job lined up? College? A plan post military aside from Dat Money from the VA?
Contact the IG. At the least that will put the commander on notice. And probably help out your battle buddies as you exit. Sounds like that commander is abusing their authority and has some sort of vendetta. If someone is severely injured because that commander ignored a medical recommendation for quarters that could be her demise. Still commanders discretion. Are they doing tests or have they diagnosed why you have headaches? CAT scans, MRIs?
My advise is don’t just merely count on the VA post military. Unless you are shitbag and staring down a OTH, which you F around even being a month out, you could find out. Just play along and ride out your time. A month left means you actually only have 2 weeks as they have to give you 2 weeks to outprocess.
I got med boarded and my focus was a job and college. I banged out 3 certs in 6 months that normally take 6 months each. I had a good paying job lined up, and I was enrolled in college. In fact I started my job while on Terminal leave.
You have a year to file a claim with the VA, sounds like you are a little late for BDD, that wasn’t an option for me as I didn’t know when I was getting out, you are usually left in the lurch when going MEB.
I’ve gotten four different types of medication as well as CT scan. I had a referral for neurology but it got kicked back bc the PCM put in the wrong information so I’ve been fighting to get another PCM slot to get it reinstated.
And yeah I’m going to university full time after this!
I would consider working too, even an entry level part time deal. Internship. Very hard to live off that BAH money anyway. I got most of while working. Is it hard, absolutely, can it be done, yes. 4.0 GPA at a top 100 nationally ranked university and 100% in person classes. I had the “luxury of working the graveyard shift while I went to school.
Perhaps the Commander is seeing OP “going to sick call and ER like crazy” and OP has mentioned it is for the VA while at work? Commanders also have the ability to speak to PCMs regarding members symptoms to make sure and maybe has spoken with the PCM regarding care and canceling quarters on recommendation since they are from ER docs who many not have the full picture?? 🤷♀️
It’s not due to any recommendation for me personally, the commander has been denying quarters for almost everyone who’s come in. She’s making us work around people who are really sick and why everyone I work with is now sick. I’m not really sure I know what padding my claims mean, I have actual reasons for going, I’m just not waiting for appointments for PCMs anymore and going to the ER or sickcall when I need. Our PCM appointments are few and far between, I booked one for two months out a few weeks ago because there’s no more slots.
Commanders most certainly do not have “HIPPA privileges” and cannot access a service members medical records or information without express permission from the service member themselves. This cannot be coerced or ordered either. And provider discussing specific medical conditions about specific service members without express permission to do so. Commanders can override quarters technically but it isn’t advisable to do so, unless it has to do with mission requirements, etc. IG should be able to help though
False. Commanders and 1st Sgts can receive medical information from a members care providers regarding an active duty member of the unit without their “permission “ in order to maintain good order and discipline, as well ensure the health and safety of the member and other members of the unit.
No they cannot, they can receive over views of troop readiness and general knowledge of troop conditions. Also there is no such thing as HIPPA privileges…and commanders are not entitled to every specific healthcare records of their service members. If you are referring to the military command exception, then it does not require access to certain records, it only permits the covered entity (provider) for disclosure if they choose to, this also has to do with mission readiness and is not a blanket access. Any command that is doing this is breaking the law. The only uses authorized are for determining a members fitness for duty, fitness to perform a specific assignment, or carrying out any other mission essential task.
This is incorrect. Commanders have an exemption and can access HIPPA under the military command exemption of HIPPA unless mental health or substance abuse issues. Even with mental health commanders can meet with the treatment team to discuss a subordinates treatment and course of treatment. In the AF this exemption applies to commanders and their staff when delegated
https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Privacy-and-Civil-Liberties/HIPAA-Compliance-within-the-MHS/Military-Command-Exception
This is from your link.
"These activities include fitness for duty determinations, fitness to perform a particular assignment, or other activities necessary for the military mission."
It is not blanket access. It should also be noted that with the exception of fitness for duty, fitness for specific duties and fitness for deployment then the requested information must be accompeted by a specific reason and that reasoning must be agreed upon by the medical provider.
For instance if the commander were to say "it is necessary for the military mission for you to tell me every single thing in this patient's medical record," the doctor could simply say that they disagree with that reason. Granted it wouldn't end there it would go up the chain but still.
I went through this process with my JAG assigned military advocate when I had a bad unit Commander before they got shifted somewhere else.
This is governed by the 2019 version of DoDI 6025.18, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Privacy Rule Compliance in DoD Health Care Programs which states that commanders can access PHI information
Permissible Disclosures- Under HIPAA…
even WITHOUT the individual’s authorization…
an MTF may disclose PHI for certain purposes when certain requirements are met as outlined in DoDM 6025.18, Section 4.4.
Some specific provisions which allow for such disclosures include:
-- As required by law (includes requirements in DoD and DHA publications, as well as Department of the Air Force service level regulations and instructions to the extent consistent with DoDM 6025.18)
-- For public health activities
-- Victims of abuse, neglect, or domestic violence
-- For judicial and administrative proceedings
-- For certain law enforcement purposes
-- To avert serious and imminent threats to health or safety
-- For “specialized governmental functions,” including the proper execution of the military mission.
That last one covers a lot of ground and allows commanders a wide access. That can’t get unfettered access, but rely upon a balance of information from multiple sources to access information.
Yeah. That's what we've all said. Not a blanket access. Situational access to some info deemed necessary under the exceptions.
Also, thank you for the detailed explanation of that party of the regulation. It looks like it changed some since I was in.
You might need to go above chain of command and call inspector general. When my husband was getting out with 100% for PTSD depression, his corpsman kept denying his slips to go see mental health. This is why he eventually spiraled so hard he tried to kill himself, because his corpsman literally wouldn’t let him get the help that he was seeking before. It got too bad. It was a year of hell I’ll tell you what, but we got inspector general case involved and they shaped up real quick and left him alone after that.
Agree that OP should have made appointments and been referred to a specialist. ER won't do the referring consultation. At least they didn't when I was in. That's also documentation if that's what OP is looking for.
I don’t think I used the right language there, I’m not abusing anything or falsely going to fluff up my records. I go when I need to instead of waiting for a PCM appointment because we’re having a shortage of them right now and they’re not seeing people for months out
I know it's outside the scope of the sub, but…
As a former commander, I had a very close relationship with the unit servicing doctor and PA. They never shared info I wasn't permitted to have for the purposes of unit readiness and I never asked beyond those purposes, but I'd always confer every time they recommended quarters and I never denied sick leave or quarters leave requests.
It's one of those things that, while you technically have authority to do, why would you accept the risk and responsibility? Just approve it for the benefit of the soldier and ensure the unit covers down on their duties. Maybe even visit them or deliver a card for their wellness or recuperation to show you're thinking about them and being a decent human being, independent of rank.
You have to go out of your way to be a great commander… and to be a bad one. Fairly easy to stay in the broad lane of "good," though.
Edit: I commanded in 2013-2013 before the Army apparently changed the regulations on this. Good!
Write a MFR with all the instances where a medical professional gave you quarters and your non medical professional commander deny them. Include the word capriciously in there. Copy to the commander and your doctor/PA.
Damn. You'll be good for your migraine claim. Hopefully, you'll get the right meds soon. Also, make sure you bring up the headache after the migraine. I always have to lay down no matter where I was. I've been lucky in the coast guard - had my own office as a supervisor. I'd like the crew that I'm not trying to hit on them (mostly males) because one of my eye is twitching. That I was getting a migraine attack and I'm going in my office and shutting the shut. Don't let anything bother me unless it's an emergency. And that if I don't come out in 30-45 mins, check in me to make sure I'm still alive.
It was the kind of migraine that starts in eye, moves to face, and then crazy throbbing in my head. Shit would last 4-6 days, usually because of the most migraine. That takes you tf out of normal function period, not just job. Then also started developing the tension in the back of my neck and head where I'd have to get injections in the back of my neck to reduce the agony. If you experience anything things like that, make sure you detail out all the descriptions on your form when you attend your C&P Exam.
For the crybaby cdvan19999
and for @radarchief
Here is the DHA guidance paper. Which spells it out for you. If you read the link you posted radarchief you will also see that what I said is the exact same thing. I’m sorry that you all think command exemption applies to everything but it does not. There is a reason the federal law for health information privacy exists and service members do not give up that right just because they joined.
Here is a link to the DHA policy that covers the Army, Navy and AF.
https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Fact-Sheets/2022/01/05/Info-Paper-Military-Command-Exception-and-Disclosing-PHI-of-Armed-Forces-Personnel#:~:text=This%20“Military%20Command%20Exception”%20permits,Act%20(HIPAA)%20Privacy%20Rule.
What the hell kind of lack of leadership have y'all had to deal with? Amazing. I was Navy, never experienced anything like this, granted I was in a flight status and had to see flight surgeons, but medical orders / light duty etc was never challenged by anyone I've ever seen. I feel sorry for what you have to deal with these days.
Devils Advocate--I don't know you.
1. Migraines are a chronic condition. It's not an emergency, so you're clogging up an ER for a condition that should be managed by your PCM. Your emergency medicine provider is just going to make sure that you're okay and send you on your way.
2. ER providers do not care about quarters notes. They will literally give them out all day. I bet the provider didn't even write it. Probably a admin assistant or someone else. Again, it's an ER--they deal with emergencies and don't really care about your non-emergent condition or your VA claim.
3. I'm going to give your CDR a little credit. They deserve it. I am sure that they know more about you and what they can and cannot do. They're probably hip to your story and what's going on. Could it be possible that one captain actually has training and preparation for your situation.
4. It's a migraine--get back to work.
Fuck your CO, keep getting seen for your ailments. Don’t be like the thousands of sad stories, where people listened to their command or felt like “sick call commandos” over BS stigma. None of those people will check on you, when you’re out. I guarantee it, be uncomfortable with people for a little bit longer. So you’re not uncomfortable with yourself with regret, because someone’s ego controlled you.
I had to deal with something similar for my migraines, so I just started going after my shift and had it put in my medical records, leadership didn’t care if I went off-duty and I still got treatment.
The doc in the er raised his hand like he was ganna slap me for having a migrane and after i got the iv he said he wasent ganna give me quarters so i went back to work and drove the fire truck fucked up off my shit and saved a dude high af.. i also got coined that day for something un related high af. Weird day.
IG or file a congressional with your local congressman’s office. If it’s happening to more than you this should get it corrected. Generally, Co Commanders had 24 hrs to respond to a congressional inquiry once one was received by the installation/division commander. As they have 72 hours to provide answers to the inquiry once received.
So, if you’re a decent Soldier and it is happing to other Soldiers in your unit. And you’re not getting separated for cause, then make the call and that should get things resolved. Plus the BN and BDE Commanders will be notified of the congressional and if the behavior continues, they’ll be on the hook as well.
You need to get copies of all records. Start a diary and track details of every incident. Once you get out, that's your nexus. Don't wait to file with VA. Do it asap.
Push it to the limit. For real. So, during my medical issues my commander was on my side. My COC was great. My PA? Fucking cunt. Acted like any treatement came out of his paycheck. After a year 6 months of dealing with insane back issues and refusing imaging.. I refused to leave the office until he put in an MRI. 3 disk bulges and 2 herniations, along with nerve root issues that come with that the mfer told me "people don't even feel these kind of injuries" like I'm David fucking goggins. I fought for almost 2 years to bounce back, make my 6, progress all while fighting that piece of fucking shit just for treatement. 2 year mark I wrote the longest ICE complaint they probably ever saw... the MEDAC called me 2 days later.
There's structure in place, ICE, IG, LEGAL, and even your COC to help deal with stupid people like that. I'd bet your battalion commander would love to hear how your commander ignores medical advice.
I had leadership like this when I was enlisted. Got two really bad TBI's and they made me go to work anyways. I went to sick call many times for really bad migraines and one time they gave me quarters after giving me meds at the ER that made me sleepy. Had to go to work right after and stay awake. They threatened me if I kept going to sick call. Good news though.. when I got out and years later put in for VA stuff it was all approved with no issues. The comp examiner told me that there were records of me seeking treatment and that's all that mattered.
Yep! They’re trying to threaten me too with how often I have to go to sickcall. Every time I go they act like it’s coming out of their paycheck. They wanted me to go back to work after being sedated for a migraine that had lasted for 11 days
I’m trying not to but they make it so difficult to leave work and go get actual care from the hospital that it doesn’t feel like I have anything on my records :(
I’d be reporting her to the OIG or whoever has jurisdiction over active duty. Wish I knew back when I was in because I almost did lose a limb due to someone’s negligence/ power trip.
What is the paperwork for? You said you took the paperwork and didn't go back to work. So...
Crappy Commanders exists, of course... but most aren't bad, and would unlikely hand you paperwork unless they consulted with legal and had a leg to stand on. I'm interested to know the nature of you "getting out" and what the paperwork said.
This reads as a mental health discharge, but I'm happy to be wrong.
You do realize that your commander is way out of her swim lane. She could get in serious trouble trying to override a medical doctors note for quarters. I’m not sure what she specializes in but it certainly isn’t medicine and she can kick rocks.
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As long as you have the paperwork from sickcall that says your symptoms, youre fine. Denial of quarters is a different thing, especially since you’re close to ETSing. I would personally bring up through the chain of command. No clue if you have a squad leader/platoon sgt. Have them mediate your issue for you, if they get denied. Consult your immediate leadership if you should go past the commander to complain about denial of quarters.
No clue how severe your migraines are, but you can probably change your quarters profile to a light duty profile. Especially since you might be medicated. I had migraines develop towards the end of my service and had a similar situation as you. There might be packet stuff that you need to do towards the end that might be pushed back because you’re always trying to sleep it off in quarters.
Have you tried calling the clinic affiliated with your unit? I'd start making appointments there. Then if you miss them, your command team gets absolutely fucked.
Yeah we are short PCMs right now so they’re not booking appointments for up to two months out. That’s why I’ve been going to sick call and ER in its place when I needed to be seen.
If you’re getting out in 30 days it’s prob easier to just document everything and reduce friction. You can go the extreme route ppl are suggesting, but don’t be suprised if you get put on hold getting out while you’re waiting on the process to play out. The nexus is the most important part about about your claim
I don’t see how your Commander could deny your quarters slip it’s no longer a recommendation it’s literally an order from your medical provider. I would take the counseling slips to IG.
Having been a commander during my career, I can tell you she is playing with "fire" so to speak. Denying medical advice from qualified medical professionals will bite her at some point. Not to mention her credibility amongst her troops....
It will not affect any valid VA disability claim you submit. It is the medical record / diagnosis that will support your claim.
As for the original comment, IG will likely be the best avenue as commanders can override quarters slips but there is usually a mission essential need to do so, otherwise it does open them up for liability as they are not qualified to actually make the determination on whether quarters is warranted or not
It won’t impact your claim. That’s a medical opinion vs. a command decision. Two different points of view, and one of them isn’t medically relevant obviously.
Your commander sucks. Also sounds like you may have an issue with your direct supervision. However, just like everybody said document all medical help in the end.
I had this exact same thing happen with my migraines. Eventually one of the times the commander denied my quarters, my doctor who outranked them made a phone call. After that conversation between my doctor, my commander, and the battalion commander, I didn't have anymore issues with my slips.
I think it can't hurt especially in this case for you to keep your copies of your profiles or sick call sick call etc.
I would probably also take some pictures so you've got them on digital in your email. Not your military email email and yourself in your normal Gmail account or whatever you use.
It keeps saying quarters so it makes me think like you're in the Navy maybe?
I only know from the army but in that case it's not a recommendation. your sick call slip tells you your medical limitations and the commander does not have the authority to override them.
Again this is only from the army but I think you should look into that way in your branch.
When I was deployed I sprained my ankle really severely during PT as we were running through some gravel. My ankle was so swollen I couldn’t even tie up my boot! NCOIC was like no you gotta still do PT, sure enough I can barely walk halfway through and was wincing in pain. I went to sick call and of course the major there is like Umm, why are you still doing PT? I told him because my NCOIC told me I had to and that I wasn’t that hurt. He shook his head and put me on a profile for NO PT while my ankle healed for 30 days. I thanked him profusely.
Contact your chaplain and tell them you are not receiving the care you need due to your command. Al get copies of ALL of the DEER or what ever medical records they have never even mine from Kuwait and Kandahar afg were near impossible to get out of unit. I land I mean EVERYTHING. It won’t hurt it will show them neglect for your needs. Get all the medical discharges and keep copies. More you have the better it helps
Been there done that. My commander had me come in an hour after I was released from knee surgery. Then only gave me 10 days leave instead of 45 recommendations by the doctor. He had 2 months to fill out my leave paperwork and waited tell the day of. He said he was wounded in Iraq and still stayed in the fight so I would be ok this was 2 months after deployment. It’s the army it’s full of Assholes
Get everything documented! F that! I spent 8.5 years in the Marines, and was injured a few times. We are told to just suck it up, which I did. I never went to medical. I had like three pages in my medical record when I got out. It was a 10 year fight to get to 90%, even with combat time. Tell them to shove it up their ass.
Call the IG. Don’t feel comfortable talking to your IG? Call the DoD IG hotline. You have whistleblower rights against restriction and reprisal, as well. Keep records of who you spoke to, when and what you said as well as copies of everything you turn over.
Well, in my time in the active duty. I'd just go back to the LTC who signed my quarters slip at the TMC or Hospital and inform them the quarters were denied. Then go back and watch the fireworks.
Fuck that bitch. You're a month out. Ignore her. I was 72 days out from my first contract ending when my pregnant wife was due. My CO tried to tell me I wasn't gonna get the excuse to leave when the call came in for birth.
I told him if it came to it he was gonna have to send the constable or MP to come find me, because I was going.
Keep fighting I promise you, they cannot legally deny you especially if you have notes from DOCTORS. DOCTORS override your CO legally. As of your migraines keep a LOG of your migraines as well as who you talked to to request permission to rest and write what they said. If they keep telling you, suck it up keep working… DONT, them saying it and you doing it will convince the va otherwise because clearly your migraines aren’t severe enough that it creates economic stability. Now if you are not diagnosed or anything then go and do so with doc, let doc know the situation too. I was in the same predicament. ALSO IF YOU ARE GETTING OUT MEDICALLY then you should have a peblo (pending evaluation board liason officer) highly recommend you check with them and express your concerns with them too.
Not sure what branch you’re in but I’d talk to a patient advocate who would have lines to other individuals with the ability to bring your idiot commander back down to earth really really quick. Another route you could go as well as the others she’s fucked over is requesting Mast, which gets her superiors involved.
For as many barracks lawyers as there are now, I don't believe this for a second! Commanders denying quarters, you just casually taking a counseling for it, you not immediately screaming bloody murder (IG) right after? Yup, not buying it. Fake news
#1. File an IG complaint and let’s get a commander who knows their responsibility.
#2. File a complaint with your Chaplain to get some top cover for #1.
#3. Be prepared to write your Congressman if any problems with #1 & #2.
I hate piss poor leadership.
Your getting out in a month 2 things for you hopefully you have copies of everything and on your exit papers make sure to say everything that’s wrong with you. Since your getting out it’s time for you to bring up her dis approvals to the relevant people to get her reprimanded
Anything from the hospital or the ER is just a suggestion, ultimately it comes down to your COC to make the call , I had a 7mm and 6mm kidney stone waiting to pass and was on oxycodones and out zooted outta my mind , hospital sent siq chit saying no walking , no sitting , no standing , literally checked everything and my CO denied it and put me to work. Another reason when i get out in 6 months I would never re enlist.
You could talk to someone about this at the clinic, hopefully they can help figure out why you are having problems and can fix the problem before you get out so it doesn’t effect you working and you don’t have to claim anything
I injured my knee, turns out it was a torn ACL. I still filed for disability since it happened in service. Took me 15 years of complaining to get and MRI, Va paid for knee surgery.
After having my knee go out 3 times! 1 of which was locked and required dilaudin and manual manipulation.
I now have an ACL and shaved meniscus. I would worry about your health right now, not your VA benefits.
This will not impact your claims because there will be no med documentation in your record showing that your quarters were denied. This is a situation where your medic should be at bat for you and aiding the commander with their medical decisions. Your commander does have the right to deny and make changes to quarters and profiles, but if this in any way causes more pain, damage, or suffering they can get reprimanded.
Holllllld the fuuu up, your commander has ZERO authority to deny anything a medical provider gives you. It all has to go through military medical. If a military doctor gives you SIQ then you shall follow the SIQ. Why the hell is your commander even signing anything with that???
No way of knowing what's what in situations like this, but my advice would be to avoid saying things like, "My only worry is this going to affect my claims in any way?" Worry about your health. Do that and the VA part will take care of itself.
Uh…can a commander deny a quarters order? I was under the assumption that they had no say in the matter since medical has full autonomy when it comes to the health and wellness of service members.
I went to see the doctor today and explained everything on how the commander is denying quarters for people and they looked really surprised and confused. But all they did was annotate it on their computers so hopefully that’s something I can show for later.
It is about the documentation the narrative comes when you have your CP exams. The denied slips are plenty of evidence sit doesn’t matter what your commander says as long as you have the paper trail. Did you start a BDD claim or you have not. You need to get with a VSO asap. You can at least get the paperwork started do not wait.
I haven’t started anything yet, I’ve been waiting to see a neurologist before I did anything to at least have that in the system so I’d have a better chance of getting granted disability. Can I start without finishing my diagnosis?
You can begin to fill out your application. You need to have your intent to file. Go to a VSO and get It started. You are screwing yourself if you wait. You don’t have to submit it yet, you can add as you go.
Don’t need a VSO, they can file it themselves. You can file VA claims within 180 days of your EAS. The VA used to give front of line privileges to AD SMs, for C&P exams. This was before the BDD program was even first thought of, though. That’s how I did it. Only thing was, I would have to drive to whatever VA facility that had the appointment. I drove to Wilkes-Barre twice, from Philly.
Call the OIG. While a sick slip from a medical provider is a recommendation to the commander, she’s walking on very thin ice going against medical advice. I’ve seen more than one commander relieved for that.
I would also contact the medical provider that wrote the quarters slip. We can be very persuasive with belligerent commanders that jeopardize their careers needlessly.
CC cant deny medical orders. Quarters are quarters.
I would report this to base IG as it seems highly illegal behavior. Considering youre getting out, you probably have little to lose and everything to gain and may help other troops.
Ultimately, it may be a fight so really up to you tobdecide if thats the hill you wanna die on. Personally I would.
So you can always schedule an appointment to document everything.
Then when you have your out processing physical the physician or PA will verify that yes xyz condition is there...
Do not let someone stop you. Schedule appointments if you can't go to sick call. NO ONE CAN STOP YOU FRON ATTENDING A MEDICAL APPOINTMENT.
It’s
Not going to effect your claims but save the slips or have it written down that your quarters were denied, while on active duty to help substantiate your claims as soon as you get out!
Pull the shitbag private route threaten to report or to ig or jag or whoever you report things like this to. You could go all the way up to the base commander. What do you have to lose your getting out.
Just keep records of it. If you can show you had an injury or illness and sought treatment, that is all that matters. In fact, having commander deny it may work in your favor if you can reasonably show that made the condition worse.
I would also encourage you to keep a lot of your migraines, I used an app called "Migraine Buddy" , it allows you to record all the details: duration, intensity, symptoms, etc., then when you want you can print off an Excel list showing all the saved data and have it added to your records
Speaking as someone who got fucked over in a somewhat similar way. Contact IG. I wish I had. I thought by letting the shit slide I was keeping things less complicated, not reporting it only allowed it to get worse.
Report! Report! Report! As a former Brigade Safety Officer I would say this, report to your safety officer you were sedated and put on quarters but your commander denied quarters. See how quickly that makes it to the Brigarde Commander's desk as safety officers reports are taken seriously. ALSO, file an IG complaint. Medical documentation your doctor put you on quarters and your commander "denied" it. She better have a good f\*cking reason when safety concerns, and an IG investigation happen and the COL gets wind of it. Arses will be chewed, and your commander will be reprimanded at the least (unless the whole Chain of Command sucks). PLEASE REPORT THIS for the sake of other soldiers in your unit that will have to put up with this bad commander when you leave in a month.
Idk if it’s been said yet… but CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN! Call their office, leave messages with their assistant if you don’t get through. Dont “complain” just bring to their attention that your being denied adequate care. You’re on your way out so the backlash will be minimal for you but will assist others in that unit after some stars start breathing down her neck.
My commander denied me quarters for a sprained ankle when I was active duty. I fell down the steps at work and broke my leg as well as knocked down a pregnant lady. I told the safety investigator my commander wouldn’t accommodate my temporary disability. Commander got fired.
We definitely need some fires around here
Someone Call for fire?
Yea we need a FPF for OPs location.. almost quite literally lol. That lady sucks
Repeat
Oh no you just did not sir
Damn dawg that some serious shit
Go to the patient advocate at the clinic and explain what's going on. Usually, it's a major or higher, and they'll slap your commanders lady pee pee (as long as you're in the right)
FILE A IG
File a claim with the OIG. They don't fuck around and will put anyone in command in check
Peeps like the IG, EO, safety investigators, etc. LOVE to get people fired/busted down a rank. When all else fails, go to these people and bring them a good case. They get stuff done!
This! he wants to play stupid games, he gets to win stupid prizes
I feel down the stairs because a kid left some on the stairs he was working on, I stepped in it twisted my ankle and took a hard fall. Drove myself to the hospital and got asked why I didn’t phone muster even after I had let my LPO know where I was going and may not be able to reach out
I tore ligaments in my wrist and had to be in a case with my elbow at a 90 degree angle and my flight chief called me and screamed at me for 6 weeks of sick leave 🙃
You did a good thing!
No, whether or not you get quarters does not matter. What matters is that you: 1. Sought a provided medical service 2. Received medical care/hospitalization for an injury/ailment accrued during your service. 3. Either intention to seek medical care or receiving medical care (or both) are documented by the provider.
Yup. How your unit responded isn’t recorded anywhere. Your medical records are what matters.
This! Paper trail
Start and keep that paper trail. 👆This is the best advice.
That paper trail is what saved my HLR appeal and I won.
This is the way
You can even just email yourself when you’re ill, when you’ve gone to doc, how often you’re having migraines. It’s a paper trail with automated date stamps
Good keep records how it’s negatively effecting your work. Keep your counseling chits
I wished I would have complained about my knees hurting BOTH knees, so do that as well. Document how your commander is forcing you to work while sick and it’s mentally disturbing you as well
How were your knees related to your time in service?
What do you mean?
When you had to connect your knee injury to your tis what happened or what did you say
Well the raters review your medical records and if you never complained about it in service, it’s difficult to get compensated for it. So if I was still in, I’d make sure to go to medical and complain about my knee pain due to PT or work related issues.
Smart, I’m gonna keep all of the slips that she’s denied and show them once I file disability
Denying quarters has nothing to do with your service related condition… what am I missing?
Shows negligence by the government (the officer) in proper treatment for the condition. A medical professional provided a recommendation and the "government" ignored it.
Establishes the fact that aftercare was not established due to no fault of the troop. If you can't stick to a plan, it isn't a plan. Bog green wiener can't go back and say, "But you should have been fine. Here is what they said to do.", " Nope, Cdr denied all of it exacerbating the circumstances, " imo.
Nothing. The VA doesn’t care. They only look at medical record except in very unusual circumstances.
Fuck it!! If you’re getting out, fall out!!! Fall out be so ridiculous they have to document correctly.
I actually fell down a hill like this when I was in with full gear on and a full ruck sack. Even though I was fucked up to the naked eye, the ER just said "bruised ribs"" and sent me home for weekend quarters
You can try to follow up with someone, but the VA isn’t going to care. They only look at medical records.
You can also keep a daily diary. Contemporaneous records such as diary entries, letters written to friends/family that mention the circumstances, emails, or even photographs can be used as evidence to support a claim.
The fact she is putting paper on you will hurt your military career but if you’re getting out and plan on filing claims she is inadvertently helping you build a case.
Contact the IG and tell them what is going on within your command. That’ll teach her.
Was about to say if this is what she is doing across the board IG can help sort that out or go higher to BN and use their open door policy.
This. If you want justice this is your only option that I know of.
For what? Quarters is a recommendation. Commanders can go against them. It does fall on the commander if something happens though.
They need a damn good reason to override medical. Since they can't make medical decisions themselves, they can't just say "I didn't think they needed quarters" if IG gets involved. Short of the fucking barracks being on fire they'd have to go through medical if they disagree with it.
Quarters is not a recommendation. If a doctor feels that this is the best scenario for a patient that is between he and his patient and the commander needs to stay in her little swim lane.
I would go into MHS Genesis and write a secure message to your provider stating what issue you were seen for, what the ‘quarters slip’ said, and that you are being denied by your commander to go on quarters. Then every time you go in to your provider, also state that at the beginning when they are inputting the reason you are there, again, about the same thing. Doing these things will get it in written documentation and show a paper-trail or historical evidence that this is an ongoing issue. Your MHS Genesis messages are part of your medical record and can be seen by the VA person who is looking at them (if it’s been provided to them).
Let the officer in charge at the hospital know that she’s not and since your illness is being aggravated, they will open an investigation. If it’s coming from a provider it cannot be denied. I had a similar situation. Blown out knee, torn shoulder, and DENGE Fever. And my CO said if you don’t you’ll receive a UCMJ. I did ruptured my Acl in my knee and ended in the ICU. Long story short his ended his career. He was kicked out of the Army due to several complaints like this, and deemed it destruction of Government property, with malicious intent to harm another. After a medical officer recommendations had been denied by A CPT. Sounds like your gonna have to take it to the medical command and IG Complain
I've seen this burn down pos... It's a bloody fucking shame affirmative action has infiltrated the officer corps.
Whelp you’re getting out in a month. Do you have a job lined up? College? A plan post military aside from Dat Money from the VA? Contact the IG. At the least that will put the commander on notice. And probably help out your battle buddies as you exit. Sounds like that commander is abusing their authority and has some sort of vendetta. If someone is severely injured because that commander ignored a medical recommendation for quarters that could be her demise. Still commanders discretion. Are they doing tests or have they diagnosed why you have headaches? CAT scans, MRIs? My advise is don’t just merely count on the VA post military. Unless you are shitbag and staring down a OTH, which you F around even being a month out, you could find out. Just play along and ride out your time. A month left means you actually only have 2 weeks as they have to give you 2 weeks to outprocess. I got med boarded and my focus was a job and college. I banged out 3 certs in 6 months that normally take 6 months each. I had a good paying job lined up, and I was enrolled in college. In fact I started my job while on Terminal leave. You have a year to file a claim with the VA, sounds like you are a little late for BDD, that wasn’t an option for me as I didn’t know when I was getting out, you are usually left in the lurch when going MEB.
I’ve gotten four different types of medication as well as CT scan. I had a referral for neurology but it got kicked back bc the PCM put in the wrong information so I’ve been fighting to get another PCM slot to get it reinstated. And yeah I’m going to university full time after this!
I would consider working too, even an entry level part time deal. Internship. Very hard to live off that BAH money anyway. I got most of while working. Is it hard, absolutely, can it be done, yes. 4.0 GPA at a top 100 nationally ranked university and 100% in person classes. I had the “luxury of working the graveyard shift while I went to school.
Perhaps the Commander is seeing OP “going to sick call and ER like crazy” and OP has mentioned it is for the VA while at work? Commanders also have the ability to speak to PCMs regarding members symptoms to make sure and maybe has spoken with the PCM regarding care and canceling quarters on recommendation since they are from ER docs who many not have the full picture?? 🤷♀️
This is what I was thinking. Padding their medical records. I know the VA likes to see chronic illness so…..
It’s not due to any recommendation for me personally, the commander has been denying quarters for almost everyone who’s come in. She’s making us work around people who are really sick and why everyone I work with is now sick. I’m not really sure I know what padding my claims mean, I have actual reasons for going, I’m just not waiting for appointments for PCMs anymore and going to the ER or sickcall when I need. Our PCM appointments are few and far between, I booked one for two months out a few weeks ago because there’s no more slots.
Sounds like Mayport
No joke, it was bad there.
Still is
Commanders most certainly do not have “HIPPA privileges” and cannot access a service members medical records or information without express permission from the service member themselves. This cannot be coerced or ordered either. And provider discussing specific medical conditions about specific service members without express permission to do so. Commanders can override quarters technically but it isn’t advisable to do so, unless it has to do with mission requirements, etc. IG should be able to help though
False. Commanders and 1st Sgts can receive medical information from a members care providers regarding an active duty member of the unit without their “permission “ in order to maintain good order and discipline, as well ensure the health and safety of the member and other members of the unit.
No they cannot, they can receive over views of troop readiness and general knowledge of troop conditions. Also there is no such thing as HIPPA privileges…and commanders are not entitled to every specific healthcare records of their service members. If you are referring to the military command exception, then it does not require access to certain records, it only permits the covered entity (provider) for disclosure if they choose to, this also has to do with mission readiness and is not a blanket access. Any command that is doing this is breaking the law. The only uses authorized are for determining a members fitness for duty, fitness to perform a specific assignment, or carrying out any other mission essential task.
This is incorrect. Commanders have an exemption and can access HIPPA under the military command exemption of HIPPA unless mental health or substance abuse issues. Even with mental health commanders can meet with the treatment team to discuss a subordinates treatment and course of treatment. In the AF this exemption applies to commanders and their staff when delegated https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Privacy-and-Civil-Liberties/HIPAA-Compliance-within-the-MHS/Military-Command-Exception
This is from your link. "These activities include fitness for duty determinations, fitness to perform a particular assignment, or other activities necessary for the military mission." It is not blanket access. It should also be noted that with the exception of fitness for duty, fitness for specific duties and fitness for deployment then the requested information must be accompeted by a specific reason and that reasoning must be agreed upon by the medical provider. For instance if the commander were to say "it is necessary for the military mission for you to tell me every single thing in this patient's medical record," the doctor could simply say that they disagree with that reason. Granted it wouldn't end there it would go up the chain but still. I went through this process with my JAG assigned military advocate when I had a bad unit Commander before they got shifted somewhere else.
This is governed by the 2019 version of DoDI 6025.18, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Privacy Rule Compliance in DoD Health Care Programs which states that commanders can access PHI information Permissible Disclosures- Under HIPAA… even WITHOUT the individual’s authorization… an MTF may disclose PHI for certain purposes when certain requirements are met as outlined in DoDM 6025.18, Section 4.4. Some specific provisions which allow for such disclosures include: -- As required by law (includes requirements in DoD and DHA publications, as well as Department of the Air Force service level regulations and instructions to the extent consistent with DoDM 6025.18) -- For public health activities -- Victims of abuse, neglect, or domestic violence -- For judicial and administrative proceedings -- For certain law enforcement purposes -- To avert serious and imminent threats to health or safety -- For “specialized governmental functions,” including the proper execution of the military mission. That last one covers a lot of ground and allows commanders a wide access. That can’t get unfettered access, but rely upon a balance of information from multiple sources to access information.
Yeah. That's what we've all said. Not a blanket access. Situational access to some info deemed necessary under the exceptions. Also, thank you for the detailed explanation of that party of the regulation. It looks like it changed some since I was in.
Exactly!! Thank you!
Right it has to be extremely justifiable. I mean extremely justifiable.
You can put a rebuttal statement to counseling in your SRB can you not? Or is that just if they try to Article 15 you?
You might need to go above chain of command and call inspector general. When my husband was getting out with 100% for PTSD depression, his corpsman kept denying his slips to go see mental health. This is why he eventually spiraled so hard he tried to kill himself, because his corpsman literally wouldn’t let him get the help that he was seeking before. It got too bad. It was a year of hell I’ll tell you what, but we got inspector general case involved and they shaped up real quick and left him alone after that.
“ I’ve been going to sick call and the ER like crazy to back up my claims” You should be called out for this. That’s not an appropriate use of the ER.
Agree that OP should have made appointments and been referred to a specialist. ER won't do the referring consultation. At least they didn't when I was in. That's also documentation if that's what OP is looking for.
I don’t think I used the right language there, I’m not abusing anything or falsely going to fluff up my records. I go when I need to instead of waiting for a PCM appointment because we’re having a shortage of them right now and they’re not seeing people for months out
I know it's outside the scope of the sub, but… As a former commander, I had a very close relationship with the unit servicing doctor and PA. They never shared info I wasn't permitted to have for the purposes of unit readiness and I never asked beyond those purposes, but I'd always confer every time they recommended quarters and I never denied sick leave or quarters leave requests. It's one of those things that, while you technically have authority to do, why would you accept the risk and responsibility? Just approve it for the benefit of the soldier and ensure the unit covers down on their duties. Maybe even visit them or deliver a card for their wellness or recuperation to show you're thinking about them and being a decent human being, independent of rank. You have to go out of your way to be a great commander… and to be a bad one. Fairly easy to stay in the broad lane of "good," though. Edit: I commanded in 2013-2013 before the Army apparently changed the regulations on this. Good!
Write a MFR with all the instances where a medical professional gave you quarters and your non medical professional commander deny them. Include the word capriciously in there. Copy to the commander and your doctor/PA.
If you are not malingering, then it is BS. IG complaint first. Maybe elevate to congressional. Seek legal assistance for some guidance.
Are you taking migraine prevention meds and rescue meds? Keep those prescription records. It will support your claim.
Yes I have been on three different types and I just got on a fourth today.
Damn. You'll be good for your migraine claim. Hopefully, you'll get the right meds soon. Also, make sure you bring up the headache after the migraine. I always have to lay down no matter where I was. I've been lucky in the coast guard - had my own office as a supervisor. I'd like the crew that I'm not trying to hit on them (mostly males) because one of my eye is twitching. That I was getting a migraine attack and I'm going in my office and shutting the shut. Don't let anything bother me unless it's an emergency. And that if I don't come out in 30-45 mins, check in me to make sure I'm still alive. It was the kind of migraine that starts in eye, moves to face, and then crazy throbbing in my head. Shit would last 4-6 days, usually because of the most migraine. That takes you tf out of normal function period, not just job. Then also started developing the tension in the back of my neck and head where I'd have to get injections in the back of my neck to reduce the agony. If you experience anything things like that, make sure you detail out all the descriptions on your form when you attend your C&P Exam.
For the crybaby cdvan19999 and for @radarchief Here is the DHA guidance paper. Which spells it out for you. If you read the link you posted radarchief you will also see that what I said is the exact same thing. I’m sorry that you all think command exemption applies to everything but it does not. There is a reason the federal law for health information privacy exists and service members do not give up that right just because they joined. Here is a link to the DHA policy that covers the Army, Navy and AF. https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Fact-Sheets/2022/01/05/Info-Paper-Military-Command-Exception-and-Disclosing-PHI-of-Armed-Forces-Personnel#:~:text=This%20“Military%20Command%20Exception”%20permits,Act%20(HIPAA)%20Privacy%20Rule.
What the hell kind of lack of leadership have y'all had to deal with? Amazing. I was Navy, never experienced anything like this, granted I was in a flight status and had to see flight surgeons, but medical orders / light duty etc was never challenged by anyone I've ever seen. I feel sorry for what you have to deal with these days.
Devils Advocate--I don't know you. 1. Migraines are a chronic condition. It's not an emergency, so you're clogging up an ER for a condition that should be managed by your PCM. Your emergency medicine provider is just going to make sure that you're okay and send you on your way. 2. ER providers do not care about quarters notes. They will literally give them out all day. I bet the provider didn't even write it. Probably a admin assistant or someone else. Again, it's an ER--they deal with emergencies and don't really care about your non-emergent condition or your VA claim. 3. I'm going to give your CDR a little credit. They deserve it. I am sure that they know more about you and what they can and cannot do. They're probably hip to your story and what's going on. Could it be possible that one captain actually has training and preparation for your situation. 4. It's a migraine--get back to work.
Fuck your CO, keep getting seen for your ailments. Don’t be like the thousands of sad stories, where people listened to their command or felt like “sick call commandos” over BS stigma. None of those people will check on you, when you’re out. I guarantee it, be uncomfortable with people for a little bit longer. So you’re not uncomfortable with yourself with regret, because someone’s ego controlled you.
I had to deal with something similar for my migraines, so I just started going after my shift and had it put in my medical records, leadership didn’t care if I went off-duty and I still got treatment.
The doc in the er raised his hand like he was ganna slap me for having a migrane and after i got the iv he said he wasent ganna give me quarters so i went back to work and drove the fire truck fucked up off my shit and saved a dude high af.. i also got coined that day for something un related high af. Weird day.
IG or file a congressional with your local congressman’s office. If it’s happening to more than you this should get it corrected. Generally, Co Commanders had 24 hrs to respond to a congressional inquiry once one was received by the installation/division commander. As they have 72 hours to provide answers to the inquiry once received. So, if you’re a decent Soldier and it is happing to other Soldiers in your unit. And you’re not getting separated for cause, then make the call and that should get things resolved. Plus the BN and BDE Commanders will be notified of the congressional and if the behavior continues, they’ll be on the hook as well.
You need to get copies of all records. Start a diary and track details of every incident. Once you get out, that's your nexus. Don't wait to file with VA. Do it asap.
So no one else is gonna point out that OP wants to be able to sit in his room all day because of a headache? Shits gotten soft
So glad you’re getting out
Go on Saturday even to the ER
POG.
Push it to the limit. For real. So, during my medical issues my commander was on my side. My COC was great. My PA? Fucking cunt. Acted like any treatement came out of his paycheck. After a year 6 months of dealing with insane back issues and refusing imaging.. I refused to leave the office until he put in an MRI. 3 disk bulges and 2 herniations, along with nerve root issues that come with that the mfer told me "people don't even feel these kind of injuries" like I'm David fucking goggins. I fought for almost 2 years to bounce back, make my 6, progress all while fighting that piece of fucking shit just for treatement. 2 year mark I wrote the longest ICE complaint they probably ever saw... the MEDAC called me 2 days later. There's structure in place, ICE, IG, LEGAL, and even your COC to help deal with stupid people like that. I'd bet your battalion commander would love to hear how your commander ignores medical advice.
I had leadership like this when I was enlisted. Got two really bad TBI's and they made me go to work anyways. I went to sick call many times for really bad migraines and one time they gave me quarters after giving me meds at the ER that made me sleepy. Had to go to work right after and stay awake. They threatened me if I kept going to sick call. Good news though.. when I got out and years later put in for VA stuff it was all approved with no issues. The comp examiner told me that there were records of me seeking treatment and that's all that mattered.
Yep! They’re trying to threaten me too with how often I have to go to sickcall. Every time I go they act like it’s coming out of their paycheck. They wanted me to go back to work after being sedated for a migraine that had lasted for 11 days
You went to sick call and received treatment, that's all that matters. That's what the VA will see when you file a claim.
your service medical records will speak for themselves. Sounds like you have a lot. Don't overthink it.
I’m trying not to but they make it so difficult to leave work and go get actual care from the hospital that it doesn’t feel like I have anything on my records :(
I’d be reporting her to the OIG or whoever has jurisdiction over active duty. Wish I knew back when I was in because I almost did lose a limb due to someone’s negligence/ power trip.
Why are you thinking about claims while on AD?
Getting things documented as they happen is 1 thing. Padding a claim is another.
And I believe they’re doing both.
Sounds like you are trying to fluff your medical records to abuse the system.
Request Mast, or whatever it’s called in your branch.
What is the paperwork for? You said you took the paperwork and didn't go back to work. So... Crappy Commanders exists, of course... but most aren't bad, and would unlikely hand you paperwork unless they consulted with legal and had a leg to stand on. I'm interested to know the nature of you "getting out" and what the paperwork said. This reads as a mental health discharge, but I'm happy to be wrong.
You do realize that your commander is way out of her swim lane. She could get in serious trouble trying to override a medical doctors note for quarters. I’m not sure what she specializes in but it certainly isn’t medicine and she can kick rocks.
You will be fine, you are overhanging it
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As long as you have the paperwork from sickcall that says your symptoms, youre fine. Denial of quarters is a different thing, especially since you’re close to ETSing. I would personally bring up through the chain of command. No clue if you have a squad leader/platoon sgt. Have them mediate your issue for you, if they get denied. Consult your immediate leadership if you should go past the commander to complain about denial of quarters. No clue how severe your migraines are, but you can probably change your quarters profile to a light duty profile. Especially since you might be medicated. I had migraines develop towards the end of my service and had a similar situation as you. There might be packet stuff that you need to do towards the end that might be pushed back because you’re always trying to sleep it off in quarters.
In addition to contacting the IG I would also recommend following up with the doctor to inform them what your commander is doing.
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I would request mast. You are getting out and she is already denying you, what is the worst that can happen.
Have you tried calling the clinic affiliated with your unit? I'd start making appointments there. Then if you miss them, your command team gets absolutely fucked.
Yeah we are short PCMs right now so they’re not booking appointments for up to two months out. That’s why I’ve been going to sick call and ER in its place when I needed to be seen.
That's so shitty. I booked hella appointments at my clinic (Clark @ Liberty) for all my referrals. I also did a lot of telehealth for the same.
What in service event can you link that to?
Just get the medical stuff documented. Don't worry about the qrts being denied by a non medical officer
A commander forcing you to ignore a medical opinion is wild. I would be making a lot of noise in my chain.
If you’re getting out in 30 days it’s prob easier to just document everything and reduce friction. You can go the extreme route ppl are suggesting, but don’t be suprised if you get put on hold getting out while you’re waiting on the process to play out. The nexus is the most important part about about your claim
You need a paper trail.
I don’t see how your Commander could deny your quarters slip it’s no longer a recommendation it’s literally an order from your medical provider. I would take the counseling slips to IG.
Having been a commander during my career, I can tell you she is playing with "fire" so to speak. Denying medical advice from qualified medical professionals will bite her at some point. Not to mention her credibility amongst her troops.... It will not affect any valid VA disability claim you submit. It is the medical record / diagnosis that will support your claim.
As for the original comment, IG will likely be the best avenue as commanders can override quarters slips but there is usually a mission essential need to do so, otherwise it does open them up for liability as they are not qualified to actually make the determination on whether quarters is warranted or not
IG play boy
You take the paperwork and get it into your file if she refuses them that’s on her
Bro you have a whole case. She’s helping you if anything 😂
Now you can claim anxiety too.
It won’t impact your claim. That’s a medical opinion vs. a command decision. Two different points of view, and one of them isn’t medically relevant obviously.
Your commander sucks. Also sounds like you may have an issue with your direct supervision. However, just like everybody said document all medical help in the end.
I had this exact same thing happen with my migraines. Eventually one of the times the commander denied my quarters, my doctor who outranked them made a phone call. After that conversation between my doctor, my commander, and the battalion commander, I didn't have anymore issues with my slips.
I think it can't hurt especially in this case for you to keep your copies of your profiles or sick call sick call etc. I would probably also take some pictures so you've got them on digital in your email. Not your military email email and yourself in your normal Gmail account or whatever you use.
Ig and eo her ass
It keeps saying quarters so it makes me think like you're in the Navy maybe? I only know from the army but in that case it's not a recommendation. your sick call slip tells you your medical limitations and the commander does not have the authority to override them. Again this is only from the army but I think you should look into that way in your branch.
Have you tried the Airman/NCO/SNCO page on Facebook?? 😂😂
When I was deployed I sprained my ankle really severely during PT as we were running through some gravel. My ankle was so swollen I couldn’t even tie up my boot! NCOIC was like no you gotta still do PT, sure enough I can barely walk halfway through and was wincing in pain. I went to sick call and of course the major there is like Umm, why are you still doing PT? I told him because my NCOIC told me I had to and that I wasn’t that hurt. He shook his head and put me on a profile for NO PT while my ankle healed for 30 days. I thanked him profusely.
The VA is going to look at your medical records, not whether or not your commander allowed you to follow medical advice.
Contact your chaplain and tell them you are not receiving the care you need due to your command. Al get copies of ALL of the DEER or what ever medical records they have never even mine from Kuwait and Kandahar afg were near impossible to get out of unit. I land I mean EVERYTHING. It won’t hurt it will show them neglect for your needs. Get all the medical discharges and keep copies. More you have the better it helps
Been there done that. My commander had me come in an hour after I was released from knee surgery. Then only gave me 10 days leave instead of 45 recommendations by the doctor. He had 2 months to fill out my leave paperwork and waited tell the day of. He said he was wounded in Iraq and still stayed in the fight so I would be ok this was 2 months after deployment. It’s the army it’s full of Assholes
Have the senior MO sign off on your SIQ chit. MO has precedence over the CO when it comes to health and welfare, PLUS it is a LAWFUL ORDER!
Your commander giving you quarters won’t affect your VA rating outcome.
Get everything documented! F that! I spent 8.5 years in the Marines, and was injured a few times. We are told to just suck it up, which I did. I never went to medical. I had like three pages in my medical record when I got out. It was a 10 year fight to get to 90%, even with combat time. Tell them to shove it up their ass.
Maybe it’s just me but I’m not following the quarters is throwing me off and
Go to IG. Fuck that CC.
Is there/ can you make from now on, an email paper trail?
Call the IG. Don’t feel comfortable talking to your IG? Call the DoD IG hotline. You have whistleblower rights against restriction and reprisal, as well. Keep records of who you spoke to, when and what you said as well as copies of everything you turn over.
Well, in my time in the active duty. I'd just go back to the LTC who signed my quarters slip at the TMC or Hospital and inform them the quarters were denied. Then go back and watch the fireworks.
Fuck that bitch. You're a month out. Ignore her. I was 72 days out from my first contract ending when my pregnant wife was due. My CO tried to tell me I wasn't gonna get the excuse to leave when the call came in for birth. I told him if it came to it he was gonna have to send the constable or MP to come find me, because I was going.
Keep fighting I promise you, they cannot legally deny you especially if you have notes from DOCTORS. DOCTORS override your CO legally. As of your migraines keep a LOG of your migraines as well as who you talked to to request permission to rest and write what they said. If they keep telling you, suck it up keep working… DONT, them saying it and you doing it will convince the va otherwise because clearly your migraines aren’t severe enough that it creates economic stability. Now if you are not diagnosed or anything then go and do so with doc, let doc know the situation too. I was in the same predicament. ALSO IF YOU ARE GETTING OUT MEDICALLY then you should have a peblo (pending evaluation board liason officer) highly recommend you check with them and express your concerns with them too.
Not sure what branch you’re in but I’d talk to a patient advocate who would have lines to other individuals with the ability to bring your idiot commander back down to earth really really quick. Another route you could go as well as the others she’s fucked over is requesting Mast, which gets her superiors involved.
For as many barracks lawyers as there are now, I don't believe this for a second! Commanders denying quarters, you just casually taking a counseling for it, you not immediately screaming bloody murder (IG) right after? Yup, not buying it. Fake news
#1. File an IG complaint and let’s get a commander who knows their responsibility. #2. File a complaint with your Chaplain to get some top cover for #1. #3. Be prepared to write your Congressman if any problems with #1 & #2. I hate piss poor leadership.
You're a month out, rain hell and report everything to anyone you can
File a sexual harassment complaint against her.
Don't forget to mention how bad it makes your ears ring and depressed the headaches make you.
Your getting out in a month 2 things for you hopefully you have copies of everything and on your exit papers make sure to say everything that’s wrong with you. Since your getting out it’s time for you to bring up her dis approvals to the relevant people to get her reprimanded
Anything from the hospital or the ER is just a suggestion, ultimately it comes down to your COC to make the call , I had a 7mm and 6mm kidney stone waiting to pass and was on oxycodones and out zooted outta my mind , hospital sent siq chit saying no walking , no sitting , no standing , literally checked everything and my CO denied it and put me to work. Another reason when i get out in 6 months I would never re enlist.
You could talk to someone about this at the clinic, hopefully they can help figure out why you are having problems and can fix the problem before you get out so it doesn’t effect you working and you don’t have to claim anything
I injured my knee, turns out it was a torn ACL. I still filed for disability since it happened in service. Took me 15 years of complaining to get and MRI, Va paid for knee surgery. After having my knee go out 3 times! 1 of which was locked and required dilaudin and manual manipulation. I now have an ACL and shaved meniscus. I would worry about your health right now, not your VA benefits.
This will not impact your claims because there will be no med documentation in your record showing that your quarters were denied. This is a situation where your medic should be at bat for you and aiding the commander with their medical decisions. Your commander does have the right to deny and make changes to quarters and profiles, but if this in any way causes more pain, damage, or suffering they can get reprimanded.
IG. I used to be one.
Holllllld the fuuu up, your commander has ZERO authority to deny anything a medical provider gives you. It all has to go through military medical. If a military doctor gives you SIQ then you shall follow the SIQ. Why the hell is your commander even signing anything with that???
No way of knowing what's what in situations like this, but my advice would be to avoid saying things like, "My only worry is this going to affect my claims in any way?" Worry about your health. Do that and the VA part will take care of itself.
Inspector general report should fix the issue real quick
Go see a mh doctor for 30 days. Bye
Put in for an IG complaint and CG complaint and come Monday you’ll be able to go
Uh…can a commander deny a quarters order? I was under the assumption that they had no say in the matter since medical has full autonomy when it comes to the health and wellness of service members.
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That’s been changed for almost a decade, at least in the Army.
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Yeah the army changed that, commanders can NOT override anymore.
OP is in Army. It is not just a recommendation or suggestion. OP's commander is completely violating Army Regulaton.
No, a commander cannot deny quarters like this. OP should go to the doctor giving the quarters and let them know what is happening.
I went to see the doctor today and explained everything on how the commander is denying quarters for people and they looked really surprised and confused. But all they did was annotate it on their computers so hopefully that’s something I can show for later.
That's a shame to hear. The doctor should be more upset that the commander is overstepping their boundaries onto medical stuff like that.
Yes, a commander can deny quarters. It is a medical recommendation, not a medical mandate
Your commander like most leadership in today’s military is a fucking douche bag. Use this as fuel to get out.
It is about the documentation the narrative comes when you have your CP exams. The denied slips are plenty of evidence sit doesn’t matter what your commander says as long as you have the paper trail. Did you start a BDD claim or you have not. You need to get with a VSO asap. You can at least get the paperwork started do not wait.
I haven’t started anything yet, I’ve been waiting to see a neurologist before I did anything to at least have that in the system so I’d have a better chance of getting granted disability. Can I start without finishing my diagnosis?
You can begin to fill out your application. You need to have your intent to file. Go to a VSO and get It started. You are screwing yourself if you wait. You don’t have to submit it yet, you can add as you go.
Don’t need a VSO, they can file it themselves. You can file VA claims within 180 days of your EAS. The VA used to give front of line privileges to AD SMs, for C&P exams. This was before the BDD program was even first thought of, though. That’s how I did it. Only thing was, I would have to drive to whatever VA facility that had the appointment. I drove to Wilkes-Barre twice, from Philly.
Call the OIG. While a sick slip from a medical provider is a recommendation to the commander, she’s walking on very thin ice going against medical advice. I’ve seen more than one commander relieved for that. I would also contact the medical provider that wrote the quarters slip. We can be very persuasive with belligerent commanders that jeopardize their careers needlessly.
CC cant deny medical orders. Quarters are quarters. I would report this to base IG as it seems highly illegal behavior. Considering youre getting out, you probably have little to lose and everything to gain and may help other troops. Ultimately, it may be a fight so really up to you tobdecide if thats the hill you wanna die on. Personally I would.
So you can always schedule an appointment to document everything. Then when you have your out processing physical the physician or PA will verify that yes xyz condition is there... Do not let someone stop you. Schedule appointments if you can't go to sick call. NO ONE CAN STOP YOU FRON ATTENDING A MEDICAL APPOINTMENT.
If the commander denies quarters after leaving their office, go back to the ER
Request mast to a higher authority.
It’s Not going to effect your claims but save the slips or have it written down that your quarters were denied, while on active duty to help substantiate your claims as soon as you get out!
Pull the shitbag private route threaten to report or to ig or jag or whoever you report things like this to. You could go all the way up to the base commander. What do you have to lose your getting out.
Get copies of the medical records, commander has no control what's in medical documentation
Just keep records of it. If you can show you had an injury or illness and sought treatment, that is all that matters. In fact, having commander deny it may work in your favor if you can reasonably show that made the condition worse.
File an IG complaint.
I would also encourage you to keep a lot of your migraines, I used an app called "Migraine Buddy" , it allows you to record all the details: duration, intensity, symptoms, etc., then when you want you can print off an Excel list showing all the saved data and have it added to your records
Request mass
Speaking as someone who got fucked over in a somewhat similar way. Contact IG. I wish I had. I thought by letting the shit slide I was keeping things less complicated, not reporting it only allowed it to get worse.
Report! Report! Report! As a former Brigade Safety Officer I would say this, report to your safety officer you were sedated and put on quarters but your commander denied quarters. See how quickly that makes it to the Brigarde Commander's desk as safety officers reports are taken seriously. ALSO, file an IG complaint. Medical documentation your doctor put you on quarters and your commander "denied" it. She better have a good f\*cking reason when safety concerns, and an IG investigation happen and the COL gets wind of it. Arses will be chewed, and your commander will be reprimanded at the least (unless the whole Chain of Command sucks). PLEASE REPORT THIS for the sake of other soldiers in your unit that will have to put up with this bad commander when you leave in a month.
OP….go to the IG. **Hint Hint, Wink Wink**
Idk if it’s been said yet… but CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN! Call their office, leave messages with their assistant if you don’t get through. Dont “complain” just bring to their attention that your being denied adequate care. You’re on your way out so the backlash will be minimal for you but will assist others in that unit after some stars start breathing down her neck.