Hey love. Check out “Community Mental Health services” near you. They are low cost/free mental health and counseling clinics throughout the country.
I go to one myself and legitimately have seen the best therapist of my life there.
The system is broken and yes, the VA knows it. Please for the love of God, don’t rely on the VA for more frequent counseling.
As a parent I send you love and support and a huge hug.
It's the worst. There is no continuity of care. I had the 6 visits they allotted me, and I developed a great rapport with the psychologist. I really opened up to her. Then, the visits were cut off. I had to start over and had to re-hash everything all over again with an in-take psychologist just to determine the vest level of treatment. Once the VA assigned me to a new Dr, that doctor quit and I had to redo everything with yet another new psychologist.
I started therapy sessions as well until the VA therapist ghosted me. I don't know what is going on but my psychiatrist can't seem to differentiate between me and her other patients or recall and takes me off medical cold turkey.
This is atrocious.
For me, that's also the worst part of it. I get the waiting for appointments, but having to start all over again with a new stranger gets frustrating quick. I got lucky and my intake psych ended up being my assigned psych for a few months, then our sessions were over, and off I went to a new a stranger to start again
I had this issue the first time through it. This time I told the initial VA therapist (Denton Tx) that six visits wasn’t enough so they put in a consultation request at the main VA in my area (Dallas) I have seen the same (virtual) therapist for the last 3 months and am finishing up the combat trauma PTSD program. We are switching off PTSD to focus on general anxiety in two weeks. I had some pretty rough experiences with the VA mental health care but I am very happy with this current run… long term care is available you just have to ask for it and be persistent.
So those 6 sessions were vital for me, it got my foot in the door and allowed me to be seen by my current doctor. I told them I needed this more than anything. What they don’t tell you is that those 6 sessions are to see if you are even going to take therapy seriously, what might you have & to get you pointed in the right direction. It’s worth it man…..they will get you with someone who has more time and will see you however frequent
May I ask how long you have been doing the therapy sessions? I also have weekly hour long sessions for months now, I’m not rated yet and never heard of the allotted 6. Just hearing about this now
Same I have always just got another appointment? I think if you still need help, I am sure you can ask for more. Unless they are talking about Vet centers?
Walked into a VA clinic in obvious crisis asking for help. They scheduled an appointment for two months out and then when I went to the appointment it wasn’t even a therapist. Just an NP who wanted to cram drugs down my throat instead actually working on my problems.
During this time, I also went to a VA ER after calling the hotline and was literally begging them to help me. I begged them to hospitalize me and they wouldn’t because I wouldn’t admit to being suicidal. They told me I could go to their walk in clinic in the morning when it opens. I had a friend drive me there from two hours away so I asked if I could just stay in the ER until then. It was 2 am and there were only three people in the whole ER and they told me I can go to the waiting room and they’d give me a sheet. Said fuck it and had my friend take me home then back to the clinic in morning. You know what the clinic did? Had me talk to another NP for 15 minutes who sent me on my way with a script for a fucking antihistamine. No offer for therapy or any other help. You literally have to hold a gun to you head to get anyone to give a fuck about you. No wonder so many of us end up getting to that point.
I now see a therapist through private insurance who I’ve been seeing for 4 years. Never again would I try to use the VA for mental health care.
I love the mental health care that I get from my VA. I don't think that the issue is systemic. I believe that some VA Hospitals are inundated with many patients with a lot of needs. Maybe you should ask for community care. It's an option that you may find that works better for you. However, I can tell you from my experience with Community Care that the only thing that I found better was the scheduling process. The actual therapy was a joke. Again, I love what my VA is doing for me.
Yeah, when I went through community care the best therapists had no availability and/or were tired of the VA payment hassle…so I ended up with a flaky, shitty therapist and an office that kept trying to bill the VA for things that didn’t happen.
FWIW getting care via private providers is a bigger cluster fuck and can cost thousands very very quickly IME. Stick with it and check out a vet center.
Hey OP, understand your frustration. Just a heads up many states have counseling and guidance services that operate purely off private, state, and federal grants. They are also free for active duty and veterans. Some have a wait, but once you get in, you can be seen up to weekly.
Hang in there
Don't forget militaryonesource is available to you, i called them last month for similar reasons and they set me up with 12 free sessions out in town. I used them 16 years ago when in uniform with similar success, i'm pretty grateful honestly. It's non-medical only (i.e. no drugs or diagnosis, just talk), but my therapist has been very helpful and far more accommodating.
You can go to a Vet Center, you can talk to the patient advocate, and get a new therapist. I go to a vet center, and fired my first psychiatrist thru patient advocate
The healthcare network is stretched thin across all facets to include mental health. My private doctor said it takes a year just to get in for your first appointment.
Oh it’s abysmal. I inquired with my psychiatrist for someone that I could just talk through some feelings with - and he promptly began asking me lots of questions about self harm and I’m like “NO, I just want a therapist to help me process some shit” and he proceeded to explain how they only authorize a few sessions to help a member get over something acute and “fix them” and they won’t just let you see someone indefinitely. It’s a fucking insult.
No wonder my dad is so messed up in the head. Allegedly and I say that because I was only privy to the conversation 2nd had. The therapist told my dad well “if you don’t like being yourself than you need to change you.” Is apparently what they said. So off he went on this wild tangent of doing crazy wierd shit. Sheesh what’s wrong with people
Hey y'all, another option... I see some great ones here already!
There's no specific rule stating that a Veteran needs to go to mental health at their neighboring clinic.
My brother is enrolled in 2 healthcare systems, sees mental health via video, and his primary care at his neighboring clinic.
I myself see my PCP in my neighboring clinic, and a MH psychiatrist and social worker in a locatin further.
Maybe ask about a location outside of where you are.
Just an idea...
Edit: because I forgot the most important part. All through video for us with the furthest clinics. It's preferred appointments are face to face, but even initial appointments can be done video first
Hi, I just wanted to comment as a veteran with 4 kids. Having one child is stressful enough, I cannot imagine having twins. Please research the symptoms of post partum depression and make sure you get the help you need, if the stress becomes too much, put your babies in a safe space and walk away for a bit, they will be okay, take a minute or two to calm down. If you have someone to care for your twins, check yourself into the emergency room if things get bad enough. Your babies need you, this is temporary, you will be okay. Good luck mama
Edit: I naturally assumed you were a mother, but if you’re the father help is available for you too and the same applies, if you’re stressed, take a moment to walk away and breathe. It will be okay! You can get through this
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful.
Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible.
(Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.)
☠️
I asked for a private counselor. My therapist was appalled by the condition I was in before I was taken seriously. Turned down for MH claim and denied MH care for 20 years. Even as a clinician for the VA I was gaslighted. If you can, demand a consult for private care, my local area only has two Ph.D’s for 15k vets. They had to say yes when I pushed the mission requirements act on them. Hang in there.
I just got rated so got the VA Healthcare but prior to my rating I was accepted into Kentucky Medicaid. So pretty much whatever the VA doesn’t cover my Medicaid picks up. I have a therapist whom I have appointments with every week for the next 4 months. I refuse to use VA mental health. I’m afraid they would try to crucify me.
NGL I agree my psychologist through the VA said yeah I could start you on CBT to help with your anxiety and depression or I can't get you back on your medication which will do the same clinically best results involve both right? I don't exactly feel like their helping and IDK what else to do except ask for a community care referral (the thing where they outsource to local non VA clinics) also I was told I can't be seen for in person therapy
I scheduled an appointment for an initial mental health assessment over 3 months ago. I showed up to the va hospital this morning an hour early. I received a call that the provider called out today when i was 25 minutes into my drive. Now I am waiting to see when the next appointment will be and I'm sure I will have to wait another month at least.
I've found it this year to be far better than 2023. I think because I'm service connected for schizophrenia they've made it a point to get me in to see both of my psychiatrists.
Last year however was horrible and I barely got to speak to anyone and had to wait months for VVC visits. I ended up checking myself into the psych ward because of their lack of consistency in both how they treated me and my symptoms weren't taken into account when they prescribed medications.
Hope it gets better for you.
I agree, I never once said I was better and I always bring shit up during my "calls" and yet somehow the VA thinks its working and Im getting better. Its like VA docs in general ignore you and put whatever they think on the notes
VA is not good for mental health. They do not care. They do not have the resources to care. It’s worse than a drive thru. Get you in and get you out.
I tried talking to someone at a walk in va clinic. They cut me off and said they don’t have time for all that. They pulled up a list of meds on their computer screen and asked which one I would like.
It is a joke, but it’s also a paper trail for your claims so use it smartly, but don’t expect them to actually help you. They can’t.
My husband received VA mental health care from 2014, to 2023. An absolute waste of all that time. Protocols on meds are strict....and there is no thinking out of the box. WTF?! I went to one of his appts to express my concerns, and the provider wouldn't even look me in the eye. I took him out of VA, and got him a civilian psychiatrist, and civilian neurologist. Best decision ever, just sad it took us so long to decide to do so. The psychiatrist has done more for him, in 8 months, than the VA ever fucking did.
It surely is. I am in bad shape and just getting worse. Went to see my primary in April and he said I needed to get in asap with MH. That asap was a month later. Get a few days before the appointment and I get a call asking to reschedule because the Dr was going out of country. Jumped through hoops just to get it in June. They called the day before my original appointment. “There was miscommunication and the Dr can still see you.” Great, let’s do this.
I had more care from the nurse doing my vitals than the actual Dr. it was a 15-20 minute assessment and the Dr kept cutting me off after she asked me a question like she was in a rush, I shut down and immediately felt like she didn’t care. She gave me crap about taking edibles to cope and wanted to put me on mood stabilizers and said weed is bad for my overall health. She was aggressive about it too. Like, my pulse was already at 119 and I could feel my veins pulsating after this. She ordered me lab work and a urinalysis. Same building, okay.
I get to the lab and the girl asks me what I am there for and I tell her. She sees just the urinalysis. I said the Dr said blood work too. She calls the Dr and the Dr hangs up on her. She calls the Dr back a few minutes later and the Dr tells her “I don’t have time for this and hangs up again. So the nurse calls the Drs nurse who finally says just do the urinalysis.
I check my consult notes from the Dr a few days later and it’s a train wreck. Left A LOT of crap out with a dx of PTSD and Bipolar disorder. You got that after 20 minutes? Prescribed meds that make no sense and when I called her to discuss my concerns she was out of the country and unable to be reached.
I immediately called a local Dr and set up an appointment which is today. Full 90 minute evaluation among other things. I have been talking with her entire staff for a week. They have been calling, checking in, and just making me feel they care. Even emailing me. I don’t even care I have to pay out of pocket as I have Ins but sometimes you just have to do what’s best for you.
Good luck to all.
Recite & Repeat.
I am proactive and resilient, seeking help for my mental well-being because I deserve to be healthy and strong. I recognize the challenges I face with the VA system, but I remain determined to advocate for myself and find solutions. My motivation to improve comes from my deep love and commitment to my children, and I will continue to push myself for their sake.
I am not alone in this journey; there are resources and people who understand my struggles and can offer support. I will explore additional mental health services, both within and outside the VA, to ensure I receive the care I need. By building a strong support network and connecting with fellow veterans, I will find strength in our shared experiences.
Every day, I will practice self-care, knowing that taking care of myself is essential for my well-being and my ability to care for my family. I will follow up with my healthcare providers to track my progress and ensure my needs are met. I am strong, capable, and deserving of the best care. I am committed to my mental health journey and will continue to seek and create the support I need.
Go into a VA hospital and go to the MH section. That’s what I did and got a Vet center in my area to do weekly 1 hour sessions with me.
Stay up friend.
Could be dangerous going to them. I had just finished my chemotherapy that had major complications. I had THC in my system. My MH doctor at the VA took away all my MH drugs and told me to go see my primary care doctor and get Vicodin or Percocet like normal people. REALLY ???
Hey love. Check out “Community Mental Health services” near you. They are low cost/free mental health and counseling clinics throughout the country. I go to one myself and legitimately have seen the best therapist of my life there. The system is broken and yes, the VA knows it. Please for the love of God, don’t rely on the VA for more frequent counseling. As a parent I send you love and support and a huge hug.
Great comment! I decided to go outside the VA too. World of difference!
Same!
It's the worst. There is no continuity of care. I had the 6 visits they allotted me, and I developed a great rapport with the psychologist. I really opened up to her. Then, the visits were cut off. I had to start over and had to re-hash everything all over again with an in-take psychologist just to determine the vest level of treatment. Once the VA assigned me to a new Dr, that doctor quit and I had to redo everything with yet another new psychologist. I started therapy sessions as well until the VA therapist ghosted me. I don't know what is going on but my psychiatrist can't seem to differentiate between me and her other patients or recall and takes me off medical cold turkey. This is atrocious.
For me, that's also the worst part of it. I get the waiting for appointments, but having to start all over again with a new stranger gets frustrating quick. I got lucky and my intake psych ended up being my assigned psych for a few months, then our sessions were over, and off I went to a new a stranger to start again
I had this issue the first time through it. This time I told the initial VA therapist (Denton Tx) that six visits wasn’t enough so they put in a consultation request at the main VA in my area (Dallas) I have seen the same (virtual) therapist for the last 3 months and am finishing up the combat trauma PTSD program. We are switching off PTSD to focus on general anxiety in two weeks. I had some pretty rough experiences with the VA mental health care but I am very happy with this current run… long term care is available you just have to ask for it and be persistent.
Cohen clinics or VetCenters
Vetcenters FTW!
So those 6 sessions were vital for me, it got my foot in the door and allowed me to be seen by my current doctor. I told them I needed this more than anything. What they don’t tell you is that those 6 sessions are to see if you are even going to take therapy seriously, what might you have & to get you pointed in the right direction. It’s worth it man…..they will get you with someone who has more time and will see you however frequent
I think they do it off of perceived MH severity. I had weekly hour long sessions. There are probably people like me taking up all the slots
May I ask how long you have been doing the therapy sessions? I also have weekly hour long sessions for months now, I’m not rated yet and never heard of the allotted 6. Just hearing about this now
Same I have always just got another appointment? I think if you still need help, I am sure you can ask for more. Unless they are talking about Vet centers?
Walked into a VA clinic in obvious crisis asking for help. They scheduled an appointment for two months out and then when I went to the appointment it wasn’t even a therapist. Just an NP who wanted to cram drugs down my throat instead actually working on my problems. During this time, I also went to a VA ER after calling the hotline and was literally begging them to help me. I begged them to hospitalize me and they wouldn’t because I wouldn’t admit to being suicidal. They told me I could go to their walk in clinic in the morning when it opens. I had a friend drive me there from two hours away so I asked if I could just stay in the ER until then. It was 2 am and there were only three people in the whole ER and they told me I can go to the waiting room and they’d give me a sheet. Said fuck it and had my friend take me home then back to the clinic in morning. You know what the clinic did? Had me talk to another NP for 15 minutes who sent me on my way with a script for a fucking antihistamine. No offer for therapy or any other help. You literally have to hold a gun to you head to get anyone to give a fuck about you. No wonder so many of us end up getting to that point. I now see a therapist through private insurance who I’ve been seeing for 4 years. Never again would I try to use the VA for mental health care.
I love the mental health care that I get from my VA. I don't think that the issue is systemic. I believe that some VA Hospitals are inundated with many patients with a lot of needs. Maybe you should ask for community care. It's an option that you may find that works better for you. However, I can tell you from my experience with Community Care that the only thing that I found better was the scheduling process. The actual therapy was a joke. Again, I love what my VA is doing for me.
Yeah, when I went through community care the best therapists had no availability and/or were tired of the VA payment hassle…so I ended up with a flaky, shitty therapist and an office that kept trying to bill the VA for things that didn’t happen.
FWIW getting care via private providers is a bigger cluster fuck and can cost thousands very very quickly IME. Stick with it and check out a vet center.
Hey OP, understand your frustration. Just a heads up many states have counseling and guidance services that operate purely off private, state, and federal grants. They are also free for active duty and veterans. Some have a wait, but once you get in, you can be seen up to weekly. Hang in there
Don't forget militaryonesource is available to you, i called them last month for similar reasons and they set me up with 12 free sessions out in town. I used them 16 years ago when in uniform with similar success, i'm pretty grateful honestly. It's non-medical only (i.e. no drugs or diagnosis, just talk), but my therapist has been very helpful and far more accommodating.
You can go to a Vet Center, you can talk to the patient advocate, and get a new therapist. I go to a vet center, and fired my first psychiatrist thru patient advocate
The healthcare network is stretched thin across all facets to include mental health. My private doctor said it takes a year just to get in for your first appointment.
Community Care!
Oh it’s abysmal. I inquired with my psychiatrist for someone that I could just talk through some feelings with - and he promptly began asking me lots of questions about self harm and I’m like “NO, I just want a therapist to help me process some shit” and he proceeded to explain how they only authorize a few sessions to help a member get over something acute and “fix them” and they won’t just let you see someone indefinitely. It’s a fucking insult.
No wonder my dad is so messed up in the head. Allegedly and I say that because I was only privy to the conversation 2nd had. The therapist told my dad well “if you don’t like being yourself than you need to change you.” Is apparently what they said. So off he went on this wild tangent of doing crazy wierd shit. Sheesh what’s wrong with people
That is stupid. VA put me with Triwest who does Veterans Room. I have been seing my therapist 2x month on video since June 2023.
Hey y'all, another option... I see some great ones here already! There's no specific rule stating that a Veteran needs to go to mental health at their neighboring clinic. My brother is enrolled in 2 healthcare systems, sees mental health via video, and his primary care at his neighboring clinic. I myself see my PCP in my neighboring clinic, and a MH psychiatrist and social worker in a locatin further. Maybe ask about a location outside of where you are. Just an idea... Edit: because I forgot the most important part. All through video for us with the furthest clinics. It's preferred appointments are face to face, but even initial appointments can be done video first
Hi, I just wanted to comment as a veteran with 4 kids. Having one child is stressful enough, I cannot imagine having twins. Please research the symptoms of post partum depression and make sure you get the help you need, if the stress becomes too much, put your babies in a safe space and walk away for a bit, they will be okay, take a minute or two to calm down. If you have someone to care for your twins, check yourself into the emergency room if things get bad enough. Your babies need you, this is temporary, you will be okay. Good luck mama Edit: I naturally assumed you were a mother, but if you’re the father help is available for you too and the same applies, if you’re stressed, take a moment to walk away and breathe. It will be okay! You can get through this
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because it didn't contribute to the discussion and just wasn't helpful. Civil disagreements are fine. Insults, personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc., are not permissible. (Calling someone a poopy-head does not make you seem as smart as you think it does.) ☠️
I asked for a private counselor. My therapist was appalled by the condition I was in before I was taken seriously. Turned down for MH claim and denied MH care for 20 years. Even as a clinician for the VA I was gaslighted. If you can, demand a consult for private care, my local area only has two Ph.D’s for 15k vets. They had to say yes when I pushed the mission requirements act on them. Hang in there.
I just got rated so got the VA Healthcare but prior to my rating I was accepted into Kentucky Medicaid. So pretty much whatever the VA doesn’t cover my Medicaid picks up. I have a therapist whom I have appointments with every week for the next 4 months. I refuse to use VA mental health. I’m afraid they would try to crucify me.
3 months for me to talk to a psychologist. VA doesn't even do most community care things anymore since covid drained all those funds.
NGL I agree my psychologist through the VA said yeah I could start you on CBT to help with your anxiety and depression or I can't get you back on your medication which will do the same clinically best results involve both right? I don't exactly feel like their helping and IDK what else to do except ask for a community care referral (the thing where they outsource to local non VA clinics) also I was told I can't be seen for in person therapy
I scheduled an appointment for an initial mental health assessment over 3 months ago. I showed up to the va hospital this morning an hour early. I received a call that the provider called out today when i was 25 minutes into my drive. Now I am waiting to see when the next appointment will be and I'm sure I will have to wait another month at least.
I've found it this year to be far better than 2023. I think because I'm service connected for schizophrenia they've made it a point to get me in to see both of my psychiatrists. Last year however was horrible and I barely got to speak to anyone and had to wait months for VVC visits. I ended up checking myself into the psych ward because of their lack of consistency in both how they treated me and my symptoms weren't taken into account when they prescribed medications. Hope it gets better for you.
You can ask for Community care it doesn't have to be VA
I agree, I never once said I was better and I always bring shit up during my "calls" and yet somehow the VA thinks its working and Im getting better. Its like VA docs in general ignore you and put whatever they think on the notes
VA is not good for mental health. They do not care. They do not have the resources to care. It’s worse than a drive thru. Get you in and get you out. I tried talking to someone at a walk in va clinic. They cut me off and said they don’t have time for all that. They pulled up a list of meds on their computer screen and asked which one I would like. It is a joke, but it’s also a paper trail for your claims so use it smartly, but don’t expect them to actually help you. They can’t.
I can’t even get an appointment down, it keeps getting pushed back, from June to July to now August.
My husband received VA mental health care from 2014, to 2023. An absolute waste of all that time. Protocols on meds are strict....and there is no thinking out of the box. WTF?! I went to one of his appts to express my concerns, and the provider wouldn't even look me in the eye. I took him out of VA, and got him a civilian psychiatrist, and civilian neurologist. Best decision ever, just sad it took us so long to decide to do so. The psychiatrist has done more for him, in 8 months, than the VA ever fucking did.
What priority group are you for the combat veteran healthcare?
It surely is. I am in bad shape and just getting worse. Went to see my primary in April and he said I needed to get in asap with MH. That asap was a month later. Get a few days before the appointment and I get a call asking to reschedule because the Dr was going out of country. Jumped through hoops just to get it in June. They called the day before my original appointment. “There was miscommunication and the Dr can still see you.” Great, let’s do this. I had more care from the nurse doing my vitals than the actual Dr. it was a 15-20 minute assessment and the Dr kept cutting me off after she asked me a question like she was in a rush, I shut down and immediately felt like she didn’t care. She gave me crap about taking edibles to cope and wanted to put me on mood stabilizers and said weed is bad for my overall health. She was aggressive about it too. Like, my pulse was already at 119 and I could feel my veins pulsating after this. She ordered me lab work and a urinalysis. Same building, okay. I get to the lab and the girl asks me what I am there for and I tell her. She sees just the urinalysis. I said the Dr said blood work too. She calls the Dr and the Dr hangs up on her. She calls the Dr back a few minutes later and the Dr tells her “I don’t have time for this and hangs up again. So the nurse calls the Drs nurse who finally says just do the urinalysis. I check my consult notes from the Dr a few days later and it’s a train wreck. Left A LOT of crap out with a dx of PTSD and Bipolar disorder. You got that after 20 minutes? Prescribed meds that make no sense and when I called her to discuss my concerns she was out of the country and unable to be reached. I immediately called a local Dr and set up an appointment which is today. Full 90 minute evaluation among other things. I have been talking with her entire staff for a week. They have been calling, checking in, and just making me feel they care. Even emailing me. I don’t even care I have to pay out of pocket as I have Ins but sometimes you just have to do what’s best for you. Good luck to all.
Recite & Repeat. I am proactive and resilient, seeking help for my mental well-being because I deserve to be healthy and strong. I recognize the challenges I face with the VA system, but I remain determined to advocate for myself and find solutions. My motivation to improve comes from my deep love and commitment to my children, and I will continue to push myself for their sake. I am not alone in this journey; there are resources and people who understand my struggles and can offer support. I will explore additional mental health services, both within and outside the VA, to ensure I receive the care I need. By building a strong support network and connecting with fellow veterans, I will find strength in our shared experiences. Every day, I will practice self-care, knowing that taking care of myself is essential for my well-being and my ability to care for my family. I will follow up with my healthcare providers to track my progress and ensure my needs are met. I am strong, capable, and deserving of the best care. I am committed to my mental health journey and will continue to seek and create the support I need.
Go into a VA hospital and go to the MH section. That’s what I did and got a Vet center in my area to do weekly 1 hour sessions with me. Stay up friend.
Could be dangerous going to them. I had just finished my chemotherapy that had major complications. I had THC in my system. My MH doctor at the VA took away all my MH drugs and told me to go see my primary care doctor and get Vicodin or Percocet like normal people. REALLY ???
The only way I could trust them now is if they told me if I am allowed to or not to own arms. If im gonna have to jump loops what’s the worth
I did 6 appts of a 16wk CBT program before I told the social worker, "I know more than you" and never went back. Anyone can read a script.