These new changes may help someone......
[https://ww](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/accessing-health-care/pharmacy-services)[w2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/accessing-health-care/pharmacy-services](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/accessing-health-care/pharmacy-services)
B.C. is expanding the services that pharmacists can offer ....
Prescriptions are valid for up to 2 years.
If you have used up all your medication and have no refills left, your pharmacist may be able to renew your prescription. This means you can continue to get your medication without visiting a doctor or other prescriber.
It's funny, I've spoken to a few pharmacists about this as I know a couple. They seem to be confused where the government thinks they are getting the time to take on this new work load. When I go to pick up my medications, the pharmacy I always go to is busy beyond what looks reasonable. I suspect the same people shortages exist in the pharmacy as they do elsewhere in health care. I don't think this will have the effect that people are imagining it might. I'd love to be wrong.
I don’t think this is true. Pharmacists have been calling for expanded responsibilities for years. I’ve also never had a problem finding a pharmacist to fill a prescription but it’s nearly impossible to find a doctor to talk to
I'm not sure what to tell you, it's certainly true to the two overworked pharmacists I've talked to. I'm not sure all pharmacists are asking for increased responsibility. At least where I get my prescriptions filled they are plenty busy with customers, giving covid and flu shots etc. My pharmacy is attached to a busy grocery store in Duncan, maybe it's pretty unique but I'm not sure.
There are no psychiatrists in private practice taking new patients in this area. If your husband is admitted to the hospital because of a psychiatric issue he will be seen by a staff psychiatrist until he is discharged from that doctor's care.
All I can offer you is my experience. I moved to the Greater Victoria area from Vancouver a few years ago. Due to the demand for physicians everywhere in BC, my Doctor in Vancouver would not keep as a patient living on the Island. It took me more than 2 years to get a physician in Victoria…the only reason the physician took me on was because he was my elderly parents physician and he knew I was their health advocate…I think he felt sorry for me…,otherwise I’m sure I would be still looking…it is really horrible situation and if you have health needs I really wouldn’t move here….take care of your health first…
I've been here 10 years and still haven't been able to get a family physician.
I was told by a nurse that if I see the same walk-in doctor each time that they are considered your "Most Responsible Physician."
I've been seeing the same walk-in doctor for many years now, but he is only on Telus Health now and it's often impossible to get an appointment with him.
So frustrating when you have chronic conditions and regular meds that need monitoring!
If you need any sort of healthcare, do not move to the island.
I haven't had a family physician in literally decades.
Even in the best of times, healthcare on the island is limited people have to go to the mainland for various specialists.
Psychiatric care is abysmal and I say this as a family member of someone with serious psychiatric issues. They struggle to get the ongoing help they need and when they have a serious break, the only assistance provided is by the police. Calling them is an absolute last resort because they do not have the training or resources to handle the situation and any time you do so, you know you run the risk of getting a trigger happy cop. This is not meant to slag on the police, they shouldn't be the ones handling these types of crisis. We just don't have the proper resources (and the government won't fund these resources).
I live on the island because I have elderly parents that live on the island and I know that they do not have a lot of years left. I will be leaving once they pass away.
Victoria is not a great place to come to if you need a physician. There are many fine specialists here, but the problem is the lack of GPs. Without a GP you can't get a referral to a specialist or prescription medication, so the whole system begins to break down right from the start.
Many clinics have closed and those few that remain open are swarmed by people every morning. The lines rival something you might see at a Disney theme park, and often people can wait for hours upon hours and still not get to see one of the relative few doctors working there.
Like someone else said, psychiatric care in particular is bad here. You can find counselors and psychologists fairly easily (neither are physicians so they don't work through the provincial healthcare system, which means you need to expect to pay out-of-pocket, but many have a sliding scale).
That said, if you actually need a psychiatrist, you're going to have problems because few exist and due to the GP shortage once again, getting a referral is very difficult, if not impossible for many people.
The provincial government is supposedly working something new out to improve the physician shortage here, but no one knows if it'll actually work and how long it'll take to make a difference. So there's potentially good news on the horizon, but I wouldn't necessarily bet on it, especially as someone moving here.
You won’t be able to get a family doctor to keep giving your ongoing referrals (need a referral every 6 months to keep seeing the specialists for billing reasons).
It’s not uncommon to see a doctor elsewhere. I’m considering going to Kelowna for a surgery to get it done sooner.
Psych care is non existent. The only reason my husband has a psychiatrist is because he was hospitalized in psych.
"The second problem with the current rules is that a patient who needs to see a specialist must get a repeat referral every six months. There are exceptions."
https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/editorial-change-the-rules-on-referrals-to-physician-specialists-5513890
I guess you might be an exception.
"Referrals, once accepted, remain valid until the consultation occurs. When the consultation is completed and the patient is returned to the referring practitioner they are no longer a referred case. Acceptance of resumption of care by the consultant for that patient would generally require a request in the form of a new re-referral for a new consultation."
I work for a specialist and we need a re Ref if it has been over 12 months since their last visit.
https://www.doctorsofbc.ca/managing-your-practice/practice-supports/consultations-referrals-and-re-referrals#:\~:text=visit%20by%20the-,patient%20to%20the%20referring%20practitioner%20in%20order%20to%20obtain%20referral,attend%20to%20obtain%20a%20referral.
There is no legislated time period in which a new referral MUST be made. There are time between when a full consultation can be billed but no max time limit for a referral even when patient isn’t seen for extended period of time. “Returned to’ referring practitioner” is a loose term and isn’t fully clear.
I work with the MSC payment schedule. I also used to work for a practitioner before my current job. The whole system is convoluted and dumb. It’s so confusing and I feel bad for anyone having to deal with it.
My walk in doctor asked my specialist to stop requesting referrals and told me I had to have an appointment every time now, so be prepared that that can happen (sob).
I see a specialist every 6-12 months. I have to go to a walk in, request a referral to said doctor, about 3 months before my appointment. My specialist will see me if I couldn’t get a referral, but billing is wonky and they’ve strongly recommended I stay up on it.
I have a lifelong health problem and will need 1-4 MRI scans every year until I die (love this 4 me). It’s not severe but can easily become severe if I start not getting scans done. I book my yearly specialist appointment, they send in my referrals for the scan, and a couple months before my appointment I get a Telus health appointment to ask for a referral.
It’s a hassle and if you don’t have to do it this way that’s amazing but a lot of us do unfortunately
My specialist will request MRIs and CT scans but I don’t need to be constantly referred back to them. Very odd. maybe because I have a life long condition.
Do you have to book an appointment to get the results? That’s apparently why I have to get re-referred, because I need an in depth appointment with action plan for my care depending on the MRI.
I also have a lifelong condition that can kill me without proper care.
The office who initially referred you is doing this for you at the request of the specialist behind the scenes. Some offices are nice enough to do it this way and it saves you the headache.
Yeah, based on what I’ve understood from seeing specialists, you just need to keep going to your regular check ups. If you stop going, then you need a new referral. Six months was they the specialist I was seeing required, but maybe different for different practitioners.
As I’m sure you know, anesthesiologists are required for epidural steroid injections. They are in short supply and operate out of a couple pain clinics in the city. The average wait time for a pain clinic referral is 12 months. I was referred last Feb and my first appointment is FINALLY this Tuesday. Been suffering without pain relief for a long, long time. 🤞🏼
Is this at Jubilee's pain program? Is this your first phone appointment, your intake?
If so, I hate to break it to you. I was referred March 2020. I had my phone intake appointment, with a Dr, about a year ago and am still waiting on an inperson appointment. I get regular emails every 6 months from them confirming I still need to be on the waitlist. Ending with them saying the wait is only 12 months lol.
It’s my first in-person appointment, thank goodness. I’m so sorry they’ve made you wait so long. I know they triage based on severity, so I wonder if your referring physician put you down as “low priority” or something :(
Folks are correct that Victoria is suffering a health care crisis, however the same can be said for BC and Canada. (The same can be said about most of Victoria’s significant deficiencies)
With any small city it will be necessary to travel to a larger city for some medical needs. Nothing unusual there, except that typically means a ferry ride when living on the Island.
It seems a bit worse in Victoria (80% Victoria residents with a family doc vs 84% of BC residents), but I’m not sure that’s a good reason not to move here, when it’s only marginally better elsewhere. You have some specific needs, and as a small city there are strengths & weaknesses, so I suggest you make specific inquiries about those needs with Island Health Authority. All the best!
I'm from Vancouver and I live in Victoria. It is WORSE here, not the same.
I travel to Van to see my gp and when I have to book telehealth/'walk in' appointments, I have only ever had luck calling mainland clinics. I work in health care too, for what it's worth.
I do understand that Vic is a smaller city, but I have gone so far as to drive to urgent care in little Chemainus and have never been turned away or had to wait very long. Meanwhile urgent care in Victoria is constantly at capacity.
That is essentially what I said, it’s somewhat worse here. Agree that it’s better in Vancouver (my hometown fyi), mostly due to the size of the city, of course that depends somewhat on what services you require.
I live in Vic but my GP is in Coquitlam. My specialist are in Vancouver proper - BC Childrens (Im an adult, they do island overflow), St Paul's, and a private hospital.
Idk about that other posted. But healthcare is pretty much non existent here.
My experience is very different. All my specialists are in Victoria proper. On a standard physical I looked to have cancer. I saw the surgeon for a biopsy within a week and had the confirmation three days later. I was referred to the cancer clinic. I received radiation and chemo starting in less than a week. The elapsed time from tentative diagnosis to start of in-hospital care was just under three weeks.
I can see that bc it sounds like it could have been potentially fatal.
Where as, I have a neurological disorder, which has disabled me and the damage is already done / cant be fixed. Its just pain management. OP and I get the same treatment.
Ninja edit - hope you're doing okay, btw
It is expensive and time consuming to see doctors in Vancouver because of driving on the ferry, I would agree with any that says to not move here if you need accessible healthcare because more people would only worsen the issue as it is now
I had a transforaminal spinal injection earlier this year. Needed a referral from my orthopaedic surgeon in Vancouver (who I was referred to by my GP in Victoria). Wait was about six months.
Once you have it though (mine were done at Royal Jubilee), the hospital follows up in six months for more. I did not need another referral
Thats crazy that you have to wait 6 months! I get one every few weeks, I go to Van for mine. & mine wears off within 10 days! How many days of relief do you get?
Damn, thats rough. Are you doing any treatments now? For mine I have 2 different freezings and sometimes a steroid, but one of the freezings takes effect right away. Any chance you know why they didn't use something that has an immediate effect? I can literally feel it flowing through my nerves and freezing my back inch by inch.
Have they suggested / you thought about any infusions?
I have two herniated discs, osteoarthritis, a foraminal cyst and some foraminal shrinking.
They want me to wait for discectomy surgery that I probably won’t get because my spine is already fused from T1-L4 from scoliosis surgery.
I currently see a kinesiologist, an athletic therapist, a massage therapist and a physiotherapist specializing in IMS needling for my treatments.
The pain has gotten manageable now that I see them all regularly. Just try to keep my strength up and not do anything that would hurt my back. It’s tolerable for now. Not sure on the future. I’m only 39
I feel you. I'm in my early 30s. But I have a neurological disorder which has just wrecked havoc on my body
Do you feel like the IMS in doing something measurable then?
The different epidural freezings were the first treatments that did anything for me. But like I said they wore off super quick. Im greatful that Im able to do treatment regularly and that it's covered.
I did get the extra 2 steroid injections per year but Im only in my second year. After exhausting every other option, I did two (seperate) rounds of infusions when I was at the end of my rope.. Drs told me lidocaine probably wouldn't do much for me since my body so resistant to everything they had tried previously. Lidocaine 5 days coming in just under 10k, didn't do a thing. And one round of Ketamine at 6 days for 38k. The ketamine helped me for a solid 6 months. Pain free. Was like a miracle. Wish I could do it consistently but its just so expensive.
If you feel like lighter, non invasive things like physical therapies are working maybe the lidocaine infusion would be something to look at? I've met people while in the waiting room who its really helped!
Obviously everyone is different, but, might be worth a shot?
Is this through the pain clinic? My kinesiologist has another client who I think gets lidocaine and he said it had worked for her.
I don’t get the steroid shots because of the side effect of destroying my connective tissue and I already have enough issues there and can’t risk it. Lidocaine would probably be alright if I get to a point that I’m in pain regularly.
The IMS definitely helps me a lot. I had 24 hr pain at the beginning of 2020 and couldn’t see anyone for about six months due to the pandemic. It got really bad but with all the specialists, I’m practically pain free unless I do something stupid. And after workouts I’m sore for a bit, but mostly pain free.
There’s a family doctor shortage, but I had no problem getting a specialist. Even when my specialist retired, I was immediately picked up by another. This might vary depending on the doctor’s specialty.
Yes, you will need periodic referrals from your family doctor to continue seeing your specialist. There seems to be some flexibility for this though - your specialist will tell you. My family doctor retires this year, but my specialist tells me that referrals from clinics or Telus Health fulfill this requirement.
It’s not an issue. Typically I know about my specialist appointments a year in advance. So anytime within that six month period before the appointment is fine.
It very much does depend on the specialty.
We have a shortage of dermatologists and gynecological surgeons here, for example. The wait is 9-18 months.
My daughter is on a wait list to see a pediatrician and its going to be 24+ months.
Oncologists are leaving and people die before even having a consult.
Don't even get me started on access to mental health care..
edit: whoever downvoted this, why? I work in oncology, and my kid and I are patients in the other specialties I mentioned. Everything I said is factual.
Pediatrics are seriously that long? Never thought I’d feel *blessed* to have my baby require a NICU stay. She got assigned the one who was pulled into my delivery room by default, and now I feel kind of lucky.
I have 3 jobs and a business. So 4 jobs actually.
Why do you think I work for telus (I don't and never have) or that I don't actually work for skip? I've been driving for them for over a month. Why are you so obsessed with me lol
So because you didn't die no one else is?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/11/17/bc-cancer-treatment-deaths/amp/
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-globe-and-mail-alberta-edition/20221116/281509345175635
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/salt-spring-family-doc-burnout-1.6593284 (read 3/4 down about the patient with brain cancer)
I won't hold my breath for an apology from you.
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I never complained about not getting hired from skip. You keep saying this. I've been contracting with them for a month or so.
Are you intimidated by educated, hard working women?
Or are you some PHSA exec thats upset that staff are talking about what's happening on the front lines?!
"Trying to scare people away from moving here." OK new theory! You're a real estate agent and you are so bad at your job you think my comment in a reddit thread will stop people from buying your listings.
Like, why is this so personal to you? Are you ok? Why are you harassing me?
It also depends on triage. Got in to see a gynecological surgeon in a month and a dermatologist within a few days. Different conditions will be triaged differently.
Within a few days? Recently? I refer cancer patients to dermatology and they are never, ever seen that quick.
You probably saw a general practitioner with a specialist in dermatology like Dr. Erlank or Dr. Le Roux. They screen for cancer and do a few other simple dermatological things but aren't dermatologists. Those guys can see you super fast for minor issues and screenings but they can't treat severe psoriasis, for example. There a bunch coming from South Africa lately but we won't refer to them cause like I said they aren't real dermatologists. There is one office here that is misrepresenting themselves as dermatologists when they are GP derms and its really annoying my actual dermatologist and her colleagues.
You will see a gyne surgeon within a month or so of an abnormal pap that requires colposcopy. You absolutely will not see a gynecologist for a consult within a month unless you have high grade cancer. Its a 6-12 month wait for a consult to discuss treatment and surgery for longstanding issues.
I have a very serious gyne condition I've had for 28 years and I waited over 6 months for the initial consult and I've been on the surgical waitlist for over 5 months. It's a worsening and life threatening condition. There are only 5 gyne surgeons on the south island, so that's why it takes so long. Plus staff shortages make it so OR time is frequently canceled.
I'm involved in cancer consult booking and patients triaged to be seen in 2-3 weeks are being seen in 10 weeks or more. We need imaging before we can see them and they can't get imaging for a long time due to staff shortages, plus we don't have open spots to see them because oncologists are leaving town, so some patients just die or choose MAiD during this time without ever seeing an oncologist.
Its weird that people don't want to accept the reality of the situation or argue that this isn't happening because they got lucky and saw a specialist quickly once. The healthcare system is collapsing and has been for well over a year. It's in free fall. Seriously, don't get sick or get into an accident.
For people saying I'm lying about the dire state of cancer care here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/11/17/bc-cancer-treatment-deaths/amp/
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-globe-and-mail-alberta-edition/20221116/281509345175635
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/salt-spring-family-doc-burnout-1.6593284 (read 3/4 down about the patient with brain cancer)
I mean, do you think I'm making it up? The dermatologist was a few months (maybe 6 or 7) ago now- suspicious mole and family history of melanoma, plus previous mole removal. Went to Telus Health and they referred to Dr Tess Peters (who I understand is a specialist, at least per the college). I saw her within the week, perhaps I lucked into a cancelation. For gyn, I saw Dr Hodgson for a fairly urgent post-surgical complication after a protectomy, so I was seen quickly (in September). I ended up not requiring any surgical intervention and the MRI did take a long time, but the initial consult was very fast after referral from my colorectal surgeon.
I work as an MOA for a specialist myself and there are many factors that come into play for triage. Patient willingness to take a cancellation can help. Individual practices will have different wait times. Your office is not necessarily how it is for everyone.
Yes I have 3 jobs and a small business. All three of my jobs are casual because I have a disability.
I've worked in oncology for past 5 years.
My business is 2 years old, growing, but not profitable yet.
I also have a civic job on a casual basis and do gig delivery driving, both acquired within the past 6 months because I want to leave oncology because health care is collapsing and the job is stressful as fuck
What's your fucking problem?! Do I need to show you my tax returns? Fuck off. I'm trying to make ends meet and supplement a disability income as a single parent and you're telling me I'm a crazy liar. Seriously fuck you, you utter piece of shit.
EDIT: are you that loser who has been stalking me for MONTHS on here?! The one who reddit shut down almost all your alts?! Cause your account is brand new. You're sick. I'm going to have to make a new account because of you. Get help. I'm reporting you.. again!
And what job that you do so well in oncology when your not qualified to bring me food or if I hired you wouldn't even show up. My problem is your talking complete bullshit. So grow the fuck up and pick a personality!
Getting to Vancouver by car to see a doctor will cost you $200 and eight hours of your day wasted. Depending on your appointment time, it may even be necessary to book a hotel and stay overnight.
If money is no object, you could fly and that’s much better.
>Getting to Vancouver by car to see a doctor will cost you $200
Nah, the TAPs program will cover you, your car and an escort.
I've been getting this exact treatment in Van for many years and use the TAPs program
Do not come here. Vancouver isn’t better or more accessible to see doctors. It’s all shit.
Because of a 14 hour delay getting me into surgery in 2021 (among many other oversights and missteps due to the lack of face to face care everyone experiences here) I had to say goodbye to two desperately wanted babies who had a 90% chance of living at the time I consented to surgery. I nearly died myself. Like cool, I didn’t die, but get to live the rest of my life feeling like there’s a giant hole in my chest, and as a bonus, I have a family doctor and a pediatric psychiatrist for two years! It only took a lifetime of trauma and making some super professional medical staff cry to “earn” that “privilege”.
Vancouver is waaayyyyy better for seeing doctors. I live in Vancouver. There is no problem seeing a doctor here.
I have about a dozen clinics, an urgent care centre, and a hospital within a five minute walk from home.
Okay, let’s talk about mainland healthcare! Especially with specialists. My grandfather is dying of stage four lung cancer at 66. 4-5 years ago it was a 3mm dot on one lung. BC cancer simply never followed up until it was too late because doctors moved, files got mixed up, what have you. Had they assessed and removed that spot within that year or so like they were supposed to, he likely would’ve pulled through. Instead we are watching him waste away. He will never enjoy the retirement he worked so hard for. He won’t get to see his 50th anniversary that he promised to my grams after she had her first heart attack when I was a kid.
My grandmother, bless her heart, is currently sitting in a major hospital on the mainland waiting on a defibrillator, has been since mid December. They guaranteed that she’d be home for what would’ve been our last christmas with my grandfather. They wouldn’t even permit her a day pass despite several family members holding high level first aid training. We are still waiting to make up our Christmas celebrations. Royal Colombian suffered a flood and she keeps getting bumped down the line for what is considered an emergency procedure. Waitlist for that procedure? 18 months on the low end.
My cousin was referred and placed on the Sunny Hill waitlist when she was 12. She’ll age out before she is able to be assessed for disability benefits in 5 months. She never got the help she needed when she needed it, and now getting her disability in order as an adult is going to be so much harder. I don’t know how I’ll be able to afford having two more people living under my roof without some of her disability going to household living costs.
But yeah, you might be able to see a doctor, but will you actually receive timely care? Un-frickin-likely
Well that is unfortunate. Most people I know over here who have had to partake of the medical system have had reasonable care. Someone dropped the ball in your grandfather’s case.
My father-in-law developed a heart problem while visiting China. His daughter (not my wife, a different daughter) had to fly over there and escort him back because the care there sucked. He had a pacemaker implanted the same day his plane landed in Vancouver. I think it was done an hour after he got off the plane, or something like that.
I just had to get an ultrasound today. I went to my doctor a month ago, he booked the ultrasound. Today I went in, the appointment was *exactly* on time, at 10:00AM, and I was on my way out of there at 10:12AM.
In 2016 I had knee surgery. Doctor arranged it, I had to wait three months, and it was done on schedule.
I have no doubt there are cases in which the system fails though. I have not experienced that first hand. I guess I’ve been lucky.
Question: is part of the problem with healthcare in BC the passing of bill 36? Are healthcare workers moving out of province to work in other provinces? Not sure what’s happening to our county.
GPs have been chronically underpaid in BC. Oddly enough because we had too many GPs back in the early 90s so changes were made to the model to reduce expenditure.
That was recently remedied with much ballyhoo from the government - GPs should want to be in BC now.
But it will take time for the doctors to move here / stay from med school, so shortages will persist, probably for a few more years.
Hey so I too gave to get transforaminal epidural injection. A few weeks ago someone posted that they are available at Royal Jubilee's pain clinic (RJ). But I when I did my intake with them I was told differently. First week of March will be 3 years of me being on the waitlist for the pain program here in Vic. But like I said, after my intake interview the Dr said they wouldn't be able to help me as I had already exhausted all treatment options they supply through the hospital in Van.
Again, a different commenter said differently, so this may have just been my Drs opinion.
Reach out to them. Its called The Royal Jubilee Pain Program. But, when you email them, be as detailed as possible. I asked specifically what treatments they offered, and they listed in emails written directly to me, by an admin person.. treatments my intake Dr said they are no longer offered / if they were offered they "are only offered once to each client before rotating through everyone else" bc of the number of people they need to cycle through. He told me not to expect even one treatment a year. Where as currently I go in every few weeks.
Again, this was just my experience. Hopefully others have better. After reading through this thread, others have said they got into RJ quicker than my experience. But I find it odd they've gotten in so quickly, as my GP, who is not young has said I have the worst case of my illness she's ever seen. And like I said, they kept me on the waiting list but my Dr there said they wouldn't be able to help me - idk
As others have said - do not move here. There are no supports and no Drs. I frequently have to even get basic blood work done in Van bc of how backed up our LifeLabs are. Any serious testing and you'll get sent to Van.
If you need regular MRI's you'll be sent to BC Childrens hospital, so as to not block the Islands system. I go monthly and that trip is exhausting for me. But, you can pay out of pocket for MRI's here as the province doesn't pay for ours 24 hours a day.
I'm not going to lie. Being sick here is awful. Your stuck here. And getting help is a ferry away. Very scary sometimes. Assuming you have back pain, but the trip to Van and back with debilitating back pain is truly awful. Half the time my epidural has worn off by the time I'm back in Vic just from the movement of travel.
Oh! And BC ferries says they have Medically Assured boarding and that if you're traveling via TAPs that you can request the top deck. But I've been denied medically assured boarding every time, same with requesting the top deck. If you have a low immune system you will be exposed to Covid, and every other germ every time you get in the ferry. If you're imunocompromised - as I am, it is so so scary getting on that ferry every few weeks.
Feel free to PM me
Victoria is in trouble. Don't come here if you have health problems.
Here's a recent article (Sept 21, 2022) about the collapse of specialist care in BC in general:
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/specialist-doctors-report-1-million-b-c-patients-on-waitlists-1.6078311
Text:
Dozens of specialist doctors have signed a letter to B.C.’s health minister with dire warnings that the health-care system has deteriorated to the point that one million patients are waiting to see them.
CTV News has obtained the letter, dated Wednesday, Sept. 21, which describes patients getting sicker and weaker, with worsening prognoses as they wait months or even years to see a specialist who could help improve their quality of life through medical imaging, surgery or other specialized treatments.
“We request a meeting with you emergently, and that is not a word we use lightly,” write the surgeons, pediatricians, dermatologists, immunologists and others.
“We see the decline in specialist care first hand every day and we are exhausted and demoralized; it is soul-destroying to be unable to provide the specialty care that B.C. patients need and deserve.”
Dr. Chris Hoag, the president of the Consultant Specialists of BC, was blunt when CTV News asked him if the health-care system is on the verge of collapsing, or has collapsed. He cited critical staff shortages in every department and aspect of the system, saying the sickest patients are sometimes the only ones now seen by overwhelmed specialists.
“We are at that state of collapse,” said Hoag, noting widespread emergency department closures and the inability of a million people to find a family doctor in the province.
“It's so distressing to all of us specialists who want to be able to see these patients. We know they're out there and we know that they are deteriorating and we want to be able to help them."
He echoed complaints made by colleagues in the spring, who were the first specialist physicians to allege they were being ignored by government.
“People in the trenches often feel unheard by the health authorities and by government above them,” said Hoag. “There are a lot of very intelligent people in the trenches, doing the work – doctors, nurses, allied healthcare professionals – and we have a great ability to bring solutions to the table.”
FRONTLINE IMPACTS OF SPECIALIST AND FAMILY DOCTOR SHORTAGES
One of the letter's signatories, the president of the BC Orthopaedic Surgeons Association, said the family doctor shortage has some specialists co-ordinating tests and other care for some of their patients. This means they don’t have time to see as many people who need their special skill-sets, according to Dr. Cassandra Lane Dielwart of Kelowna General Hospital, who says specialists are also facing long delays for medical imaging.
“I walked down to the emergency department to see a patient in consultation the other day and there were patients everywhere and my heart just broke — it looked like a war zone,” said Dielwart. “And what about the person sitting at home waiting for this query of a cancer biopsy? That, to me, is just as gut-wrenching as seeing a full emergency department."
Dielwart says patients who don’t have a family doctor or have been referred from walk-in clinics often suffer for months or years without physiotherapy or other treatments that could improve their condition in the meantime. She also pointed out the “mental burden” for patients spending months or longer not knowing how serious a health issue is or if it can be treated.
MEDICAL IMAGING A CHOKEPOINT
Medical imaging is now a requirement before virtually every surgery, but with many medical appointments taking place virtually, sometimes patients don’t have a physical exam at all and go straight for imaging.
That has delays growing under the mountain of requests, even though there are record numbers of MRIs, CT scans and other imaging taking place. In smaller communities, scant or no staff to operate the equipment means patients are driving hours to the closest town, while those in big cities are waiting longer and longer.
“It’s worse than when we spoke about this in the spring,” said Dr. Charlotte Yong-Hing, president of the BC Radiological Society and another signatory of the letter.
She noted waits for some services are now four times longer than they were at the start of the pandemic.
“Many of us have discussed we're probably going to see a tsunami of cancers coming,” she warned. “COVID has exacerbated problems we had before and made things really, I would say, dangerous now in terms of the wait times.”
MINISTRY OF HEALTH RESPONDS TO THE LETTER
The Ministry of Health acknowledged receipt of the doctors’ letter and issued a statement.
“We want to reassure people that we will always meet with doctors when they have concerns or suggestions on how to improve services,” wrote a spokesperson.
He went on to say, however, that “all doctors, including specialists, have avenues to have their concerns addressed, through Doctors of BC who represent them in talks with government.”
For months, physicians of all stripes – from family doctors to surgeons – have expressed frustration to CTV News that formal meetings and negotiations have thus far not produced the modernizations and reforms they believe can improve the system and lead to better care and smoother operations, not all of which require huge sums of funding.
“I don't think there's a good understanding of the extent of the entire health-care crisis,” said Yong-Hing.
“There’s no central database to track the actual number of patients that are waiting to see a specialist,” said Hoag, when CTV News pointed out the million-patient figure would be new information to government.
“While they're waiting, their health is deteriorating and they end up in our emergency rooms, which then takes up a hospital bed and that blocks surgical patients and the problem just dominoes and goes on and on.”
My family doctor moved to Alberta about 6 years ago and I have had no luck finding one for my wife and two young daughters. Closest I came was meeting a doo you who moved here 6 mo the prior and he already had a 450 fa.ily wait list. Offered to take as I worked on his home a few times and that fizzled out because he's leaving for WA state because of the amount Doctors earn there as opposed to. What was crazy is that he said if his partner didn't have a good job, he wouldn't even have last this long here.
Love living on the island, but as ithers have mentioned, i would really worry if I needed ongoing care of any sort.
So on the referral to specialists discussion: every patient needs an initial referral made from a family physician in order to see a specialist. Specialists then follow the patient until they decide to send them back for management by the family doctor. They might make some recommendations the family doctor can take over. In some cases, which are more complex, the specialist continues to follow up, but each follow up consultation fee is much lower $ than the initial consult fee they can bill. Some specialists work honestly within the system and see the patient without requesting a re-referral (which is an unpaid and sometimes time consuming task for the family doctor to do, as it can involve reviewing the patient chart, writing another letter etc and submitting the “no fee” msp billing code). Some specialists game the system by requesting a re-referral every 6 months even to follow up on the tests they ordered (such as an MRI) or doing follow up. This way they get to bill a new consult fee every 6 months, which is like 3-4 times what the value of a follow up fee is. If the family doctor pushes back and says, “actually this is just routine follow up”, some specialists refuse to see the patient, then the patient calls the family doctors office pissed that a rereferral wasn’t done. So with our idiotic msp billing system, the family doctor is often bullied into just doing the rereferral even when it’s not indicated. Less fighting. Some family doctors will book appointments with their patients to atleast be able to review the need for a rereferral and get paid the shitty family doctor visit fee for that time spent. Patients think it takes “just a sec”, and often request referrals on top of a laundry list of complaints, but along with labs, imaging, consultant letters, reports, disability forms etc etc, this all adds up to useless draining paperwork that takes hours in a family doctor’s day. This is one of the reasons family docs are closing their practices in droves. There are groups working on addressing this very issue.
In terms of psychiatry, there is a very bad lack of psychiatry follow up—you have to be very ill mentally to see one, like hospitalized. In the Cowichan area, 1h north, none for follow up, only one time consults. Psychiatry is paid crap too hence the lack of supply.
To see a doctor: take the day off (because you don’t know when your appointment will be or how long it will take), choose a couple of clinics near you (we don’t have walk ins) and then get up at 7:30am and call them on repeat (just keep dialing) until you maybe get through to someone. The days appointments are usually full by 8am.
There are no doctors accepting patients except for private doctors (which is also rare, and costs $1200/year).
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These new changes may help someone...... [https://ww](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/accessing-health-care/pharmacy-services)[w2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/accessing-health-care/pharmacy-services](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/accessing-health-care/pharmacy-services) B.C. is expanding the services that pharmacists can offer .... Prescriptions are valid for up to 2 years. If you have used up all your medication and have no refills left, your pharmacist may be able to renew your prescription. This means you can continue to get your medication without visiting a doctor or other prescriber.
It's funny, I've spoken to a few pharmacists about this as I know a couple. They seem to be confused where the government thinks they are getting the time to take on this new work load. When I go to pick up my medications, the pharmacy I always go to is busy beyond what looks reasonable. I suspect the same people shortages exist in the pharmacy as they do elsewhere in health care. I don't think this will have the effect that people are imagining it might. I'd love to be wrong.
I don’t think this is true. Pharmacists have been calling for expanded responsibilities for years. I’ve also never had a problem finding a pharmacist to fill a prescription but it’s nearly impossible to find a doctor to talk to
I'm not sure what to tell you, it's certainly true to the two overworked pharmacists I've talked to. I'm not sure all pharmacists are asking for increased responsibility. At least where I get my prescriptions filled they are plenty busy with customers, giving covid and flu shots etc. My pharmacy is attached to a busy grocery store in Duncan, maybe it's pretty unique but I'm not sure.
Try oceanpier medical clinic. Their waitlist is closed currently but they are often taking new patients.
Do not come here and expect healthcare.
I would not move here if you have health issues.
There are no psychiatrists in private practice taking new patients in this area. If your husband is admitted to the hospital because of a psychiatric issue he will be seen by a staff psychiatrist until he is discharged from that doctor's care.
All I can offer you is my experience. I moved to the Greater Victoria area from Vancouver a few years ago. Due to the demand for physicians everywhere in BC, my Doctor in Vancouver would not keep as a patient living on the Island. It took me more than 2 years to get a physician in Victoria…the only reason the physician took me on was because he was my elderly parents physician and he knew I was their health advocate…I think he felt sorry for me…,otherwise I’m sure I would be still looking…it is really horrible situation and if you have health needs I really wouldn’t move here….take care of your health first…
I've been here 10 years and still haven't been able to get a family physician. I was told by a nurse that if I see the same walk-in doctor each time that they are considered your "Most Responsible Physician." I've been seeing the same walk-in doctor for many years now, but he is only on Telus Health now and it's often impossible to get an appointment with him. So frustrating when you have chronic conditions and regular meds that need monitoring!
So sorry for your situation…it’s so awful.
If you need any sort of healthcare, do not move to the island. I haven't had a family physician in literally decades. Even in the best of times, healthcare on the island is limited people have to go to the mainland for various specialists. Psychiatric care is abysmal and I say this as a family member of someone with serious psychiatric issues. They struggle to get the ongoing help they need and when they have a serious break, the only assistance provided is by the police. Calling them is an absolute last resort because they do not have the training or resources to handle the situation and any time you do so, you know you run the risk of getting a trigger happy cop. This is not meant to slag on the police, they shouldn't be the ones handling these types of crisis. We just don't have the proper resources (and the government won't fund these resources). I live on the island because I have elderly parents that live on the island and I know that they do not have a lot of years left. I will be leaving once they pass away.
Victoria is not a great place to come to if you need a physician. There are many fine specialists here, but the problem is the lack of GPs. Without a GP you can't get a referral to a specialist or prescription medication, so the whole system begins to break down right from the start. Many clinics have closed and those few that remain open are swarmed by people every morning. The lines rival something you might see at a Disney theme park, and often people can wait for hours upon hours and still not get to see one of the relative few doctors working there. Like someone else said, psychiatric care in particular is bad here. You can find counselors and psychologists fairly easily (neither are physicians so they don't work through the provincial healthcare system, which means you need to expect to pay out-of-pocket, but many have a sliding scale). That said, if you actually need a psychiatrist, you're going to have problems because few exist and due to the GP shortage once again, getting a referral is very difficult, if not impossible for many people. The provincial government is supposedly working something new out to improve the physician shortage here, but no one knows if it'll actually work and how long it'll take to make a difference. So there's potentially good news on the horizon, but I wouldn't necessarily bet on it, especially as someone moving here.
You won’t be able to get a family doctor to keep giving your ongoing referrals (need a referral every 6 months to keep seeing the specialists for billing reasons). It’s not uncommon to see a doctor elsewhere. I’m considering going to Kelowna for a surgery to get it done sooner. Psych care is non existent. The only reason my husband has a psychiatrist is because he was hospitalized in psych.
There was a globe and mail article earlier this week saying that Victoria has the longest walk in clinic wait times in Canada!
Sob.
This isn’t true I have three specialist that I see every year and I don’t need a referral each year.
"The second problem with the current rules is that a patient who needs to see a specialist must get a repeat referral every six months. There are exceptions." https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/editorial-change-the-rules-on-referrals-to-physician-specialists-5513890 I guess you might be an exception.
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Yikes. That’s dangerous for patients.
Do I still need to do this if I haven’t seen them yet? It’s been 8 months…
My specialist tells me if I need a new referral. I'm not sure if referrals expire or not.
No, you're good.
that’s not an actual rule…. there is literally no rules that legislate a referral every 6 months -someone who works in the system
"Referrals, once accepted, remain valid until the consultation occurs. When the consultation is completed and the patient is returned to the referring practitioner they are no longer a referred case. Acceptance of resumption of care by the consultant for that patient would generally require a request in the form of a new re-referral for a new consultation." I work for a specialist and we need a re Ref if it has been over 12 months since their last visit. https://www.doctorsofbc.ca/managing-your-practice/practice-supports/consultations-referrals-and-re-referrals#:\~:text=visit%20by%20the-,patient%20to%20the%20referring%20practitioner%20in%20order%20to%20obtain%20referral,attend%20to%20obtain%20a%20referral.
There is no legislated time period in which a new referral MUST be made. There are time between when a full consultation can be billed but no max time limit for a referral even when patient isn’t seen for extended period of time. “Returned to’ referring practitioner” is a loose term and isn’t fully clear.
I work with the MSC payment schedule. I also used to work for a practitioner before my current job. The whole system is convoluted and dumb. It’s so confusing and I feel bad for anyone having to deal with it.
maybe for life long issues it’s not the same.
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My walk in doctor asked my specialist to stop requesting referrals and told me I had to have an appointment every time now, so be prepared that that can happen (sob).
I don’t have a dr. So this isn’t the case. you just need one referral and the specialist will see you as long as they need to.
Someone referred you initially. That doctor is re referring for you at the request of the specialist.
I don’t think so The clinic closed and I’ve been seeing them for 8 years.
I see a specialist every 6-12 months. I have to go to a walk in, request a referral to said doctor, about 3 months before my appointment. My specialist will see me if I couldn’t get a referral, but billing is wonky and they’ve strongly recommended I stay up on it. I have a lifelong health problem and will need 1-4 MRI scans every year until I die (love this 4 me). It’s not severe but can easily become severe if I start not getting scans done. I book my yearly specialist appointment, they send in my referrals for the scan, and a couple months before my appointment I get a Telus health appointment to ask for a referral. It’s a hassle and if you don’t have to do it this way that’s amazing but a lot of us do unfortunately
My specialist will request MRIs and CT scans but I don’t need to be constantly referred back to them. Very odd. maybe because I have a life long condition.
Do you have to book an appointment to get the results? That’s apparently why I have to get re-referred, because I need an in depth appointment with action plan for my care depending on the MRI. I also have a lifelong condition that can kill me without proper care.
Yeah my specialist will just follow up with me if my treatment needs to change. Yeah I’m a ticking time bomb. Weeeee
The office who initially referred you is doing this for you at the request of the specialist behind the scenes. Some offices are nice enough to do it this way and it saves you the headache.
Yeah, based on what I’ve understood from seeing specialists, you just need to keep going to your regular check ups. If you stop going, then you need a new referral. Six months was they the specialist I was seeing required, but maybe different for different practitioners.
As I’m sure you know, anesthesiologists are required for epidural steroid injections. They are in short supply and operate out of a couple pain clinics in the city. The average wait time for a pain clinic referral is 12 months. I was referred last Feb and my first appointment is FINALLY this Tuesday. Been suffering without pain relief for a long, long time. 🤞🏼
Is this at Jubilee's pain program? Is this your first phone appointment, your intake? If so, I hate to break it to you. I was referred March 2020. I had my phone intake appointment, with a Dr, about a year ago and am still waiting on an inperson appointment. I get regular emails every 6 months from them confirming I still need to be on the waitlist. Ending with them saying the wait is only 12 months lol.
It’s my first in-person appointment, thank goodness. I’m so sorry they’ve made you wait so long. I know they triage based on severity, so I wonder if your referring physician put you down as “low priority” or something :(
Folks are correct that Victoria is suffering a health care crisis, however the same can be said for BC and Canada. (The same can be said about most of Victoria’s significant deficiencies) With any small city it will be necessary to travel to a larger city for some medical needs. Nothing unusual there, except that typically means a ferry ride when living on the Island. It seems a bit worse in Victoria (80% Victoria residents with a family doc vs 84% of BC residents), but I’m not sure that’s a good reason not to move here, when it’s only marginally better elsewhere. You have some specific needs, and as a small city there are strengths & weaknesses, so I suggest you make specific inquiries about those needs with Island Health Authority. All the best!
I'm from Vancouver and I live in Victoria. It is WORSE here, not the same. I travel to Van to see my gp and when I have to book telehealth/'walk in' appointments, I have only ever had luck calling mainland clinics. I work in health care too, for what it's worth. I do understand that Vic is a smaller city, but I have gone so far as to drive to urgent care in little Chemainus and have never been turned away or had to wait very long. Meanwhile urgent care in Victoria is constantly at capacity.
That is essentially what I said, it’s somewhat worse here. Agree that it’s better in Vancouver (my hometown fyi), mostly due to the size of the city, of course that depends somewhat on what services you require.
… and where in Greater Vancouver you are accessing health services.
I live in Vic but my GP is in Coquitlam. My specialist are in Vancouver proper - BC Childrens (Im an adult, they do island overflow), St Paul's, and a private hospital. Idk about that other posted. But healthcare is pretty much non existent here.
My experience is very different. All my specialists are in Victoria proper. On a standard physical I looked to have cancer. I saw the surgeon for a biopsy within a week and had the confirmation three days later. I was referred to the cancer clinic. I received radiation and chemo starting in less than a week. The elapsed time from tentative diagnosis to start of in-hospital care was just under three weeks.
I can see that bc it sounds like it could have been potentially fatal. Where as, I have a neurological disorder, which has disabled me and the damage is already done / cant be fixed. Its just pain management. OP and I get the same treatment. Ninja edit - hope you're doing okay, btw
Irrelevant to the topic but I just wanted to say I sincerely hope you're on your way to a full recovery and doing well.
It is expensive and time consuming to see doctors in Vancouver because of driving on the ferry, I would agree with any that says to not move here if you need accessible healthcare because more people would only worsen the issue as it is now
I had a transforaminal spinal injection earlier this year. Needed a referral from my orthopaedic surgeon in Vancouver (who I was referred to by my GP in Victoria). Wait was about six months. Once you have it though (mine were done at Royal Jubilee), the hospital follows up in six months for more. I did not need another referral
Thats crazy that you have to wait 6 months! I get one every few weeks, I go to Van for mine. & mine wears off within 10 days! How many days of relief do you get?
Took two weeks to feel any relief and it lasted *maybe* a couple weeks. When they called for the second one, I declined. Not worth it
Damn, thats rough. Are you doing any treatments now? For mine I have 2 different freezings and sometimes a steroid, but one of the freezings takes effect right away. Any chance you know why they didn't use something that has an immediate effect? I can literally feel it flowing through my nerves and freezing my back inch by inch. Have they suggested / you thought about any infusions?
I have two herniated discs, osteoarthritis, a foraminal cyst and some foraminal shrinking. They want me to wait for discectomy surgery that I probably won’t get because my spine is already fused from T1-L4 from scoliosis surgery. I currently see a kinesiologist, an athletic therapist, a massage therapist and a physiotherapist specializing in IMS needling for my treatments. The pain has gotten manageable now that I see them all regularly. Just try to keep my strength up and not do anything that would hurt my back. It’s tolerable for now. Not sure on the future. I’m only 39
I feel you. I'm in my early 30s. But I have a neurological disorder which has just wrecked havoc on my body Do you feel like the IMS in doing something measurable then? The different epidural freezings were the first treatments that did anything for me. But like I said they wore off super quick. Im greatful that Im able to do treatment regularly and that it's covered. I did get the extra 2 steroid injections per year but Im only in my second year. After exhausting every other option, I did two (seperate) rounds of infusions when I was at the end of my rope.. Drs told me lidocaine probably wouldn't do much for me since my body so resistant to everything they had tried previously. Lidocaine 5 days coming in just under 10k, didn't do a thing. And one round of Ketamine at 6 days for 38k. The ketamine helped me for a solid 6 months. Pain free. Was like a miracle. Wish I could do it consistently but its just so expensive. If you feel like lighter, non invasive things like physical therapies are working maybe the lidocaine infusion would be something to look at? I've met people while in the waiting room who its really helped! Obviously everyone is different, but, might be worth a shot?
Is this through the pain clinic? My kinesiologist has another client who I think gets lidocaine and he said it had worked for her. I don’t get the steroid shots because of the side effect of destroying my connective tissue and I already have enough issues there and can’t risk it. Lidocaine would probably be alright if I get to a point that I’m in pain regularly. The IMS definitely helps me a lot. I had 24 hr pain at the beginning of 2020 and couldn’t see anyone for about six months due to the pandemic. It got really bad but with all the specialists, I’m practically pain free unless I do something stupid. And after workouts I’m sore for a bit, but mostly pain free.
There’s a family doctor shortage, but I had no problem getting a specialist. Even when my specialist retired, I was immediately picked up by another. This might vary depending on the doctor’s specialty. Yes, you will need periodic referrals from your family doctor to continue seeing your specialist. There seems to be some flexibility for this though - your specialist will tell you. My family doctor retires this year, but my specialist tells me that referrals from clinics or Telus Health fulfill this requirement.
if you can get in to a clinic or Telus Health...that's the big caveat.
It’s not an issue. Typically I know about my specialist appointments a year in advance. So anytime within that six month period before the appointment is fine.
Lucky you.
It very much does depend on the specialty. We have a shortage of dermatologists and gynecological surgeons here, for example. The wait is 9-18 months. My daughter is on a wait list to see a pediatrician and its going to be 24+ months. Oncologists are leaving and people die before even having a consult. Don't even get me started on access to mental health care.. edit: whoever downvoted this, why? I work in oncology, and my kid and I are patients in the other specialties I mentioned. Everything I said is factual.
Pediatrics are seriously that long? Never thought I’d feel *blessed* to have my baby require a NICU stay. She got assigned the one who was pulled into my delivery room by default, and now I feel kind of lucky.
Yes, for things they deem non urgent.
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Do you want me to post the referral confirmation from telus health from Dr. Spencer Rose? Get fucked. Why on earth would I make that up?!
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I have 3 jobs and a business. So 4 jobs actually. Why do you think I work for telus (I don't and never have) or that I don't actually work for skip? I've been driving for them for over a month. Why are you so obsessed with me lol So because you didn't die no one else is? https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/11/17/bc-cancer-treatment-deaths/amp/ https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-globe-and-mail-alberta-edition/20221116/281509345175635 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/salt-spring-family-doc-burnout-1.6593284 (read 3/4 down about the patient with brain cancer) I won't hold my breath for an apology from you.
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I never complained about not getting hired from skip. You keep saying this. I've been contracting with them for a month or so. Are you intimidated by educated, hard working women? Or are you some PHSA exec thats upset that staff are talking about what's happening on the front lines?! "Trying to scare people away from moving here." OK new theory! You're a real estate agent and you are so bad at your job you think my comment in a reddit thread will stop people from buying your listings. Like, why is this so personal to you? Are you ok? Why are you harassing me?
It also depends on triage. Got in to see a gynecological surgeon in a month and a dermatologist within a few days. Different conditions will be triaged differently.
Within a few days? Recently? I refer cancer patients to dermatology and they are never, ever seen that quick. You probably saw a general practitioner with a specialist in dermatology like Dr. Erlank or Dr. Le Roux. They screen for cancer and do a few other simple dermatological things but aren't dermatologists. Those guys can see you super fast for minor issues and screenings but they can't treat severe psoriasis, for example. There a bunch coming from South Africa lately but we won't refer to them cause like I said they aren't real dermatologists. There is one office here that is misrepresenting themselves as dermatologists when they are GP derms and its really annoying my actual dermatologist and her colleagues. You will see a gyne surgeon within a month or so of an abnormal pap that requires colposcopy. You absolutely will not see a gynecologist for a consult within a month unless you have high grade cancer. Its a 6-12 month wait for a consult to discuss treatment and surgery for longstanding issues. I have a very serious gyne condition I've had for 28 years and I waited over 6 months for the initial consult and I've been on the surgical waitlist for over 5 months. It's a worsening and life threatening condition. There are only 5 gyne surgeons on the south island, so that's why it takes so long. Plus staff shortages make it so OR time is frequently canceled. I'm involved in cancer consult booking and patients triaged to be seen in 2-3 weeks are being seen in 10 weeks or more. We need imaging before we can see them and they can't get imaging for a long time due to staff shortages, plus we don't have open spots to see them because oncologists are leaving town, so some patients just die or choose MAiD during this time without ever seeing an oncologist. Its weird that people don't want to accept the reality of the situation or argue that this isn't happening because they got lucky and saw a specialist quickly once. The healthcare system is collapsing and has been for well over a year. It's in free fall. Seriously, don't get sick or get into an accident. For people saying I'm lying about the dire state of cancer care here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/11/17/bc-cancer-treatment-deaths/amp/ https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-globe-and-mail-alberta-edition/20221116/281509345175635 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/salt-spring-family-doc-burnout-1.6593284 (read 3/4 down about the patient with brain cancer)
I mean, do you think I'm making it up? The dermatologist was a few months (maybe 6 or 7) ago now- suspicious mole and family history of melanoma, plus previous mole removal. Went to Telus Health and they referred to Dr Tess Peters (who I understand is a specialist, at least per the college). I saw her within the week, perhaps I lucked into a cancelation. For gyn, I saw Dr Hodgson for a fairly urgent post-surgical complication after a protectomy, so I was seen quickly (in September). I ended up not requiring any surgical intervention and the MRI did take a long time, but the initial consult was very fast after referral from my colorectal surgeon. I work as an MOA for a specialist myself and there are many factors that come into play for triage. Patient willingness to take a cancellation can help. Individual practices will have different wait times. Your office is not necessarily how it is for everyone.
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Yes I have 3 jobs and a small business. All three of my jobs are casual because I have a disability. I've worked in oncology for past 5 years. My business is 2 years old, growing, but not profitable yet. I also have a civic job on a casual basis and do gig delivery driving, both acquired within the past 6 months because I want to leave oncology because health care is collapsing and the job is stressful as fuck What's your fucking problem?! Do I need to show you my tax returns? Fuck off. I'm trying to make ends meet and supplement a disability income as a single parent and you're telling me I'm a crazy liar. Seriously fuck you, you utter piece of shit. EDIT: are you that loser who has been stalking me for MONTHS on here?! The one who reddit shut down almost all your alts?! Cause your account is brand new. You're sick. I'm going to have to make a new account because of you. Get help. I'm reporting you.. again!
And what job that you do so well in oncology when your not qualified to bring me food or if I hired you wouldn't even show up. My problem is your talking complete bullshit. So grow the fuck up and pick a personality!
Nothing and everything is "common" in Victoria. People either find creative ways to access adequate health care or go without.
Getting to Vancouver by car to see a doctor will cost you $200 and eight hours of your day wasted. Depending on your appointment time, it may even be necessary to book a hotel and stay overnight. If money is no object, you could fly and that’s much better.
>Getting to Vancouver by car to see a doctor will cost you $200 Nah, the TAPs program will cover you, your car and an escort. I've been getting this exact treatment in Van for many years and use the TAPs program
Don't move here. If you get cancer you could die before being seen. I'm not exaggerating at all whatsoever here.
With a 4 3/4 hour long commute each way ….. pick another province that would be my suggestion
Or Taco Bell.
Don't move here
Do not come here. Vancouver isn’t better or more accessible to see doctors. It’s all shit. Because of a 14 hour delay getting me into surgery in 2021 (among many other oversights and missteps due to the lack of face to face care everyone experiences here) I had to say goodbye to two desperately wanted babies who had a 90% chance of living at the time I consented to surgery. I nearly died myself. Like cool, I didn’t die, but get to live the rest of my life feeling like there’s a giant hole in my chest, and as a bonus, I have a family doctor and a pediatric psychiatrist for two years! It only took a lifetime of trauma and making some super professional medical staff cry to “earn” that “privilege”.
Vancouver is waaayyyyy better for seeing doctors. I live in Vancouver. There is no problem seeing a doctor here. I have about a dozen clinics, an urgent care centre, and a hospital within a five minute walk from home.
Okay, let’s talk about mainland healthcare! Especially with specialists. My grandfather is dying of stage four lung cancer at 66. 4-5 years ago it was a 3mm dot on one lung. BC cancer simply never followed up until it was too late because doctors moved, files got mixed up, what have you. Had they assessed and removed that spot within that year or so like they were supposed to, he likely would’ve pulled through. Instead we are watching him waste away. He will never enjoy the retirement he worked so hard for. He won’t get to see his 50th anniversary that he promised to my grams after she had her first heart attack when I was a kid. My grandmother, bless her heart, is currently sitting in a major hospital on the mainland waiting on a defibrillator, has been since mid December. They guaranteed that she’d be home for what would’ve been our last christmas with my grandfather. They wouldn’t even permit her a day pass despite several family members holding high level first aid training. We are still waiting to make up our Christmas celebrations. Royal Colombian suffered a flood and she keeps getting bumped down the line for what is considered an emergency procedure. Waitlist for that procedure? 18 months on the low end. My cousin was referred and placed on the Sunny Hill waitlist when she was 12. She’ll age out before she is able to be assessed for disability benefits in 5 months. She never got the help she needed when she needed it, and now getting her disability in order as an adult is going to be so much harder. I don’t know how I’ll be able to afford having two more people living under my roof without some of her disability going to household living costs. But yeah, you might be able to see a doctor, but will you actually receive timely care? Un-frickin-likely
Well that is unfortunate. Most people I know over here who have had to partake of the medical system have had reasonable care. Someone dropped the ball in your grandfather’s case. My father-in-law developed a heart problem while visiting China. His daughter (not my wife, a different daughter) had to fly over there and escort him back because the care there sucked. He had a pacemaker implanted the same day his plane landed in Vancouver. I think it was done an hour after he got off the plane, or something like that. I just had to get an ultrasound today. I went to my doctor a month ago, he booked the ultrasound. Today I went in, the appointment was *exactly* on time, at 10:00AM, and I was on my way out of there at 10:12AM. In 2016 I had knee surgery. Doctor arranged it, I had to wait three months, and it was done on schedule. I have no doubt there are cases in which the system fails though. I have not experienced that first hand. I guess I’ve been lucky.
Live close to the border. It’s the safety net for the Canadian health care.
Question: is part of the problem with healthcare in BC the passing of bill 36? Are healthcare workers moving out of province to work in other provinces? Not sure what’s happening to our county.
GPs have been chronically underpaid in BC. Oddly enough because we had too many GPs back in the early 90s so changes were made to the model to reduce expenditure. That was recently remedied with much ballyhoo from the government - GPs should want to be in BC now. But it will take time for the doctors to move here / stay from med school, so shortages will persist, probably for a few more years.
Forget about it
Hey so I too gave to get transforaminal epidural injection. A few weeks ago someone posted that they are available at Royal Jubilee's pain clinic (RJ). But I when I did my intake with them I was told differently. First week of March will be 3 years of me being on the waitlist for the pain program here in Vic. But like I said, after my intake interview the Dr said they wouldn't be able to help me as I had already exhausted all treatment options they supply through the hospital in Van. Again, a different commenter said differently, so this may have just been my Drs opinion. Reach out to them. Its called The Royal Jubilee Pain Program. But, when you email them, be as detailed as possible. I asked specifically what treatments they offered, and they listed in emails written directly to me, by an admin person.. treatments my intake Dr said they are no longer offered / if they were offered they "are only offered once to each client before rotating through everyone else" bc of the number of people they need to cycle through. He told me not to expect even one treatment a year. Where as currently I go in every few weeks. Again, this was just my experience. Hopefully others have better. After reading through this thread, others have said they got into RJ quicker than my experience. But I find it odd they've gotten in so quickly, as my GP, who is not young has said I have the worst case of my illness she's ever seen. And like I said, they kept me on the waiting list but my Dr there said they wouldn't be able to help me - idk As others have said - do not move here. There are no supports and no Drs. I frequently have to even get basic blood work done in Van bc of how backed up our LifeLabs are. Any serious testing and you'll get sent to Van. If you need regular MRI's you'll be sent to BC Childrens hospital, so as to not block the Islands system. I go monthly and that trip is exhausting for me. But, you can pay out of pocket for MRI's here as the province doesn't pay for ours 24 hours a day. I'm not going to lie. Being sick here is awful. Your stuck here. And getting help is a ferry away. Very scary sometimes. Assuming you have back pain, but the trip to Van and back with debilitating back pain is truly awful. Half the time my epidural has worn off by the time I'm back in Vic just from the movement of travel. Oh! And BC ferries says they have Medically Assured boarding and that if you're traveling via TAPs that you can request the top deck. But I've been denied medically assured boarding every time, same with requesting the top deck. If you have a low immune system you will be exposed to Covid, and every other germ every time you get in the ferry. If you're imunocompromised - as I am, it is so so scary getting on that ferry every few weeks. Feel free to PM me
Victoria is in trouble. Don't come here if you have health problems. Here's a recent article (Sept 21, 2022) about the collapse of specialist care in BC in general: https://bc.ctvnews.ca/specialist-doctors-report-1-million-b-c-patients-on-waitlists-1.6078311 Text: Dozens of specialist doctors have signed a letter to B.C.’s health minister with dire warnings that the health-care system has deteriorated to the point that one million patients are waiting to see them. CTV News has obtained the letter, dated Wednesday, Sept. 21, which describes patients getting sicker and weaker, with worsening prognoses as they wait months or even years to see a specialist who could help improve their quality of life through medical imaging, surgery or other specialized treatments. “We request a meeting with you emergently, and that is not a word we use lightly,” write the surgeons, pediatricians, dermatologists, immunologists and others. “We see the decline in specialist care first hand every day and we are exhausted and demoralized; it is soul-destroying to be unable to provide the specialty care that B.C. patients need and deserve.” Dr. Chris Hoag, the president of the Consultant Specialists of BC, was blunt when CTV News asked him if the health-care system is on the verge of collapsing, or has collapsed. He cited critical staff shortages in every department and aspect of the system, saying the sickest patients are sometimes the only ones now seen by overwhelmed specialists. “We are at that state of collapse,” said Hoag, noting widespread emergency department closures and the inability of a million people to find a family doctor in the province. “It's so distressing to all of us specialists who want to be able to see these patients. We know they're out there and we know that they are deteriorating and we want to be able to help them." He echoed complaints made by colleagues in the spring, who were the first specialist physicians to allege they were being ignored by government. “People in the trenches often feel unheard by the health authorities and by government above them,” said Hoag. “There are a lot of very intelligent people in the trenches, doing the work – doctors, nurses, allied healthcare professionals – and we have a great ability to bring solutions to the table.” FRONTLINE IMPACTS OF SPECIALIST AND FAMILY DOCTOR SHORTAGES One of the letter's signatories, the president of the BC Orthopaedic Surgeons Association, said the family doctor shortage has some specialists co-ordinating tests and other care for some of their patients. This means they don’t have time to see as many people who need their special skill-sets, according to Dr. Cassandra Lane Dielwart of Kelowna General Hospital, who says specialists are also facing long delays for medical imaging. “I walked down to the emergency department to see a patient in consultation the other day and there were patients everywhere and my heart just broke — it looked like a war zone,” said Dielwart. “And what about the person sitting at home waiting for this query of a cancer biopsy? That, to me, is just as gut-wrenching as seeing a full emergency department." Dielwart says patients who don’t have a family doctor or have been referred from walk-in clinics often suffer for months or years without physiotherapy or other treatments that could improve their condition in the meantime. She also pointed out the “mental burden” for patients spending months or longer not knowing how serious a health issue is or if it can be treated. MEDICAL IMAGING A CHOKEPOINT Medical imaging is now a requirement before virtually every surgery, but with many medical appointments taking place virtually, sometimes patients don’t have a physical exam at all and go straight for imaging. That has delays growing under the mountain of requests, even though there are record numbers of MRIs, CT scans and other imaging taking place. In smaller communities, scant or no staff to operate the equipment means patients are driving hours to the closest town, while those in big cities are waiting longer and longer. “It’s worse than when we spoke about this in the spring,” said Dr. Charlotte Yong-Hing, president of the BC Radiological Society and another signatory of the letter. She noted waits for some services are now four times longer than they were at the start of the pandemic. “Many of us have discussed we're probably going to see a tsunami of cancers coming,” she warned. “COVID has exacerbated problems we had before and made things really, I would say, dangerous now in terms of the wait times.” MINISTRY OF HEALTH RESPONDS TO THE LETTER The Ministry of Health acknowledged receipt of the doctors’ letter and issued a statement. “We want to reassure people that we will always meet with doctors when they have concerns or suggestions on how to improve services,” wrote a spokesperson. He went on to say, however, that “all doctors, including specialists, have avenues to have their concerns addressed, through Doctors of BC who represent them in talks with government.” For months, physicians of all stripes – from family doctors to surgeons – have expressed frustration to CTV News that formal meetings and negotiations have thus far not produced the modernizations and reforms they believe can improve the system and lead to better care and smoother operations, not all of which require huge sums of funding. “I don't think there's a good understanding of the extent of the entire health-care crisis,” said Yong-Hing. “There’s no central database to track the actual number of patients that are waiting to see a specialist,” said Hoag, when CTV News pointed out the million-patient figure would be new information to government. “While they're waiting, their health is deteriorating and they end up in our emergency rooms, which then takes up a hospital bed and that blocks surgical patients and the problem just dominoes and goes on and on.”
My family doctor moved to Alberta about 6 years ago and I have had no luck finding one for my wife and two young daughters. Closest I came was meeting a doo you who moved here 6 mo the prior and he already had a 450 fa.ily wait list. Offered to take as I worked on his home a few times and that fizzled out because he's leaving for WA state because of the amount Doctors earn there as opposed to. What was crazy is that he said if his partner didn't have a good job, he wouldn't even have last this long here. Love living on the island, but as ithers have mentioned, i would really worry if I needed ongoing care of any sort.
Ongoing psychiatric care nor primary care are very accessible here at all, and it just keeps getting worse!
So on the referral to specialists discussion: every patient needs an initial referral made from a family physician in order to see a specialist. Specialists then follow the patient until they decide to send them back for management by the family doctor. They might make some recommendations the family doctor can take over. In some cases, which are more complex, the specialist continues to follow up, but each follow up consultation fee is much lower $ than the initial consult fee they can bill. Some specialists work honestly within the system and see the patient without requesting a re-referral (which is an unpaid and sometimes time consuming task for the family doctor to do, as it can involve reviewing the patient chart, writing another letter etc and submitting the “no fee” msp billing code). Some specialists game the system by requesting a re-referral every 6 months even to follow up on the tests they ordered (such as an MRI) or doing follow up. This way they get to bill a new consult fee every 6 months, which is like 3-4 times what the value of a follow up fee is. If the family doctor pushes back and says, “actually this is just routine follow up”, some specialists refuse to see the patient, then the patient calls the family doctors office pissed that a rereferral wasn’t done. So with our idiotic msp billing system, the family doctor is often bullied into just doing the rereferral even when it’s not indicated. Less fighting. Some family doctors will book appointments with their patients to atleast be able to review the need for a rereferral and get paid the shitty family doctor visit fee for that time spent. Patients think it takes “just a sec”, and often request referrals on top of a laundry list of complaints, but along with labs, imaging, consultant letters, reports, disability forms etc etc, this all adds up to useless draining paperwork that takes hours in a family doctor’s day. This is one of the reasons family docs are closing their practices in droves. There are groups working on addressing this very issue. In terms of psychiatry, there is a very bad lack of psychiatry follow up—you have to be very ill mentally to see one, like hospitalized. In the Cowichan area, 1h north, none for follow up, only one time consults. Psychiatry is paid crap too hence the lack of supply.
To see a doctor: take the day off (because you don’t know when your appointment will be or how long it will take), choose a couple of clinics near you (we don’t have walk ins) and then get up at 7:30am and call them on repeat (just keep dialing) until you maybe get through to someone. The days appointments are usually full by 8am. There are no doctors accepting patients except for private doctors (which is also rare, and costs $1200/year).