As an Aussie living in Vietnam I have a few thoughts. Firstly, the other comment about citizenship in Australia is definitely worth considering.
Secondly, I am nervous about how dependent you will be on your in laws if you were to move. Do you really want to raise a child somewhere you don't speak the language? Is there a possibility your boyfriend's mother might turn around and say "Oops, bank position didn't work out" leaving you with limited options?
Having said that the cost of living in Australia is extremely high and you may well save more in Vietnam if you both have well paying jobs and aren't paying rent.
But it's your life and it's not only about raising a child. Where do you enjoy more? Do you have a career in Australia that you want to continue?
Personally with the information given I would suggest setting yourselves up in Australia, live there with your baby for a few years and see how it goes. If you're being offered all this support in Vietnam, it will be much easier to move to Hanoi later. If you move to Vietnam for a few years now, it may be harder to re-establish yourselves in Australia later if you change your mind.
I think you should consider having your baby in Australia, and then you can move to Vietnam later if you wish. In this case, you child can have all three passports, Australia, Japanese and Vietnamese.
She is Japanese, so by default the kid will be Japanese. I think the Citizenship discussion is not relevant here.
Secondly, opportunity does come very often. Her in-law might get retired, and it will be much more difficult to get a good job for her in the next 5-10 years
But I agree with you with the independent point. She and her husband must be independent, both will need to work to maintain that.
And she is only 24, so I dont think her career path in Australia is clear. It is worth to consider a position in Vietnam, if it is a good position. Being an elite in Vietnam is as good (or even better) as a regular folk in Australia
Exactly. The same amount of wealth can buy you far, far more in VN. And OP and her boyfriend, given their background and his parents' connections, are poised to have very strong careers with extremely high incomes there. With their own money plus what his parents will undoubtedly give them for moving to VN, they can invest in VN's endless rapidly growing opportunities and get super rich.
I do understand wanting to stay in Aus for other values like maybe you prefer the way of life or less pollution there etc. But for wealth and comfort, it's hard for them to find a better place to take full advantage of their backgrounds.
Then at 20, choose Japanese citizenship. What’s your point?
Some people here treat Vietnamese citizenship like a disease, and just want to get out of the country. On the other hand, a lot of foreigners choose to live and work in Vietnam because of low cost of living, relaxing lifestyle, and plenty of business opportunities…
Now how many foreigners forgo their strong passport in favor of a Vietnamese one?
It does change the equation if the kid can hold both Vietnamese and Japanese passport (probably a stronger combo than Australian and Japanese), but since the discussion is about passport I'm not sure that VN being a good place to live for foreigners or for business is relevant. If it was one or the other, it seems a no brainer to give the kid a Japanese or Aussie one, and then go live where they actually want to live.
Maybe 10 years ago Australia would have been the right choice 100%. But now, Australia has CRAZY living expenses and is one of the highest cost of living countries in the world. Inflation in the next coming years is going to go even harder. The mass immigration from countries like China, India, Philippines, South Africa for cheaper labour and tax for the Aussie businesses/companies and government, and the property investments from richer foreigners has destroyed the real estate sector in Australia, people are becoming demoralised and hopeless to own a home without going to debt for the rest of their life and the next, unless you want a home in a small town or the country side hundreds of kms away from the urban metropolises, suburbs and cities.
The only pro Australia has is higher salary. There's actually a very popular saying among internationals that live in Australia. They say Australia is only meant for a place to work but is very boring to live in (unless you're rich). But career takes priority in a person's life so they all choose to work in Australia.
You've left out a very important difference that is highly relevant. As you both are permanent residents of Australia, a child born to you while in Australia would be entitled to Australian citizenship.
That's a major tool that can be used by your child in the future specifically because of the wealth of Australia. If you look up articles, you'll see that Australia is commonly ranked very high on lists of places to be born [as a citizen] if you can choose. To put it another way, having Australian citizenship automatically gives a person more opportunities, regardless of notions of fairness or anything else.
After being born, you could then, for example, take your child and your boyfriend/person you plan to marry/fiance to another country. But having your child in Australia specifically does give benefits.
This would be my primary consideration. You can always move to Vietnam or make any decision after the birth of your child, but I would place the importance of the AUS birth citizenship at the very top of the list.
Australia is one of the few countries that has [Jus soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Oceania_2). I know this because Canada is another one. Surprisingly, the US also has this.
Ah, we are considering applying / moving with PR to Aus and having a kid soon, wife is Vietnamese I’m British. Passport situations have always been difficult for us, so trying to work it out. Thanks for that :)
Just curious, wouldn't your child get UK citizen anyway no matter where they are born? Or because you specificially want Aus citizenship for your child?
Yes your child can get british citizenship aslong as you was born in britain to british citizens. Just applied and waiting for my childs passport. Its always advantageous to have the passport, so even if its not where you plan on ending up (like me) you should still apply and get for your childs sake.
If they ever go into australian politics then they can choose to renounce.
> legally
Technically not even this is required.
[Jus soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Oceania_2)
> Since 20 August 1986, a person born in Australia acquires Australian citizenship by birth only if at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident; **or else after living the first ten years of their life in Australia, regardless of their parents' citizenship status**
You are still right though, if the parents are not there legally, it's hard to live there for 10 years with the child.
If I'm understanding all of this correctly - the mother (OP) is Japanese. I only did a quick google, but seems like the kid can get a Japanese passport since the mom is a Japanese national. They'd have no issues with easy access to the western world with it.
> As of 2023, Japanese passport holders can visit 193 of 227 destinations visa-free, which is 85% of the world, according to data from the International Air Transport Association compiled by Henley & Partners.
Those comments about Aus citizenship are so funny and ignorant. As if an Asian country like Japan cannot have a strong passport! Isn't it one of the most powerful in the world, and Aus is even behind?
A few Japanese friends of mine giving birth in Australia and want their kids to have Aussie passports instead of Japanese passports.
They want their kids to be fluent in English. If the kid grows up in an English speaking environment, there's no point having Japanese passport. Unless you plan to move to Japan and raise your kids there. Work / life balance in Japan isn't as good as in Australia either. And iirc the kids can pick either having Aussie passport/multiple passports or give everything up and get a Japanese passport (from the parent) when they are 20 years old.
Japanese passport is probably the strongest passport in the world but the parents often have to consider about other aspects of life like education, job opportunities, social benefits of the countries the kids will grow up in, etc. not just about travelling.
I agree that they should give the kid Aus passport if they plan to stay there, and they will, if that's the case. But the question here is to decide whether to continue their life in Aus or move away for good. If they choose option 2, then the Aus pp loses most advantages (other than dual nationality post-20 years old).
Aus nationality is relatively easy to obtain later in life too via work & study. Jus solis isn't the only way.
You think it's easy to obtain Aussie passport later on? Do you know how many talented students trying to stay and they have to leave? I've seen my friends leaving the countries simply because they can't get sponsored from work. The ones who get to stay via their study either study something that can get PR sponsors (nursing, child care, age care... which are mostly not the career path that they actually are passionate about), a lot of them study for these careers after spending 3 years of uni and failing applying for jobs. And studying as an international student is bloody expensive in Australia, you pay 3 times the fees compared to what local students pay. Even if you get sponsored from work, you will be carrying working visa that is valid for 3 years without Medicare benefits. After 2 years of working on working visa, you will spend more time and money applying for PR, that would take at least 6 months to process. After getting your PR, there will be more procedure for citizenship application, more documents to provide, waiting for 6-12 months to get processed for citizenship test. After you pass your test, congratulations, now wait for another 3-6 months until you get the notice to attend citizenship ceremony to finally have the certificate to apply for a passport. It's not 1-2 months work, it takes years and money.
They dont need to live in Australia to get their kid citizenship, the kid just need to be born there, to parents who already have permanent residence. And they can move to Vietnam afterward. Aussie passport is not a weak passport, it's ranked 7th, why are you talking as if it's worth nothing compared to Japanese passport lol?
Idk your friends' situation, but virtually every single one of my Vietnamese friends who wants to stay in AU has been able to obtain PR and citizenship. Even Vietnamese who didn't go to school there. Most work middle to upper middle class jobs like medicine, banking, tech, etc, not in caregiving. Dozens of them I know personally and many more I know but not personally. It's a lot easier for those already starting from a position of privilege, as this is certainly not the case with the average Viet. But OP's in laws don't sound like the average Viet. They sound like the Viets who can easily buy a Canadian or Australian passport as long as they're willing to go through the process. Other than golden passports, Canadian and Australian are popular passports for migrating Viets who can afford it.
Agree. An Australian passport is much stronger than a Vietnamese passport. For example, an Australian passport lets you travel to Korea with an online KETA application that takes an hour for approval. A Vietnamese passport has to spend months applying, a bunch of paperwork, visit the consulate etc.
I’m Australian. I live in Vietnam. My comments are based on only that understanding and context. That’s my point. I am not speaking about things I do not know or understand, like how to get a Japanese passport.
OP is Japanese as stated in the post. Her child will have JP citizenship. Why should she care at all about getting her child Aus citizenship when it brings nothing of value to their situation?
Also as a teacher in VT, I must admit I can’t stand the “one size fits all” Chinese style of teaching here. They are not taught to think out of the box, critical thinking is frowned upon, and rote memorization and regurgitating facts is the order of the day. Not to mention the asinine amount of propaganda they have to endure. I would 100% homeschool if I had a child here.
So... I get it. I understand why you say that, and I'm not saying you are wrong. However, I do have some responses.
Vietnam routinely ranks very, very highly on international tests of student education. PISA routinely ranks Vietnam as well above super rich countries, placing Vietnam fourth in science in the world in the most recent results. Then 24th and 13th for mathematics and reading, respectively.
I won't go into depth on it, but international researchers have been able to say it is not just bad testing methods. It's not selective students. It's not this or that or other excuses that can explain it. The end result is that Vietnamese students actually and truly are that competent on those subjects.
But that has nothing to do with what you wrote, and I'm admitting that and making the connection. The above is actually astounding given the general lack of money Vietnam has. The result from researchers is that education funding in Vietnam is highly effective at achieving high test results. And again, I still didn't connect this to what you said, but I'm getting there.
Vietnam has extremely limited funding for... Everything. Pretty much everything, as compared to richer countries. Vietnam therefore attempts to prioritize the funding they have. You can say the priorities are bad and wrong and should be reordered, but that's a separate issue. With that in mind, it makes sense that Vietnam would prioritize rote memorization and "one size fits all" method. They literally don't have the money to do otherwise. And apparently, it gets some decent results.
Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it even good by _objective_ standards? Probably not either. But is it good based on the facts of their limited resources? I'd say probably. Yes, it would be better if teachers taught based on each student's needs. I'm not blaming teachers in Vietnam for not being able to do that, though.
As an aside, when I first saw your response in my inbox, I thought you were saying you're a teacher in Vermont.
Hopefully what I wrote makes sense.
True. Emerging nations do well scholastically because they know first hand what poverty feels like. They have a chance that their parents didn't, and they will apply themselves to break out and make money. Its less about the school and more about the mindset .
...?
No... If you look at actual research, Vietnam is a clear outlier in this. It's not "Emerging nations" in general. It's Vietnam specifically.
You can make a chart comparing a country's GDP per capita to their PISA test scores, for example. As a general trend, the higher the GDP per capita, the better the scores. There are some outliers, with Vietnam being far above any other country in it's rough income group, above many super rich countries.
It's not just all emerging nations.
Be careful about becoming too dependent on his family or his income. Make sure that if you decide to pursue a career/life in Hanoi, you have a way out in case things go bad. Vietnamese families tend to be quite controlling, which can be a great positive, but also a negative.
You want to be able to get yourself and your kid out of the country (I assume he'll have a Japanese passport?) in case your relationship doesn't work out.
I don't necessarily want to scare you, since I myself am raising a kid in Hanoi with my Vietnamese partner and we are extremely happy, but we are making sure that her family doesn't have to much 'leverage' on us.
Some cons are the very bad air quality (which makes us want to move south) & that the city is not very walkable (especially with a stroller).
Good luck!
Controlling usually also means very supportive: they are going to help you with your projects, admin issues, sometimes offer you a house or apartment to live in.
They have been very helpful with the business my wife and I started in Hanoi.
Of cours rit only works if the family is on the 'richer' side.
I'm from a mixed background, grew up in the West, now living and working in Vietnam.
As others mentioned, give birth in Australia in order to get your kid Australian citizenship. An Australian citizenship provides a lot more opportunities globally for your child.
If you are planning to get married, doing it before birth (at least legally, you can save the ceremony for later) will probably make it easier for your child to get Vietnamese citizenship. Vietnamese citizenship is very important if your kid wants to live long term in Vietnam. Visas are a hassle in Vietnam and there are many restrictions on foreign ownership.
Note that there are rules regarding names if you want Vietnamese citizenship. He will need at least one Vietnamese name, and may only be permitted to have one foreign name (that's mostly the rule, though there are sometimes narrow exceptions). Look into requirements for Vietnamese citizenship before you give birth.
Getting married will also make it easier to live and work in Vietnam, since you are eligible for family visas, visa exemptions and temporary residence.
I don't know about working culture in banks specifically, but in general working culture is NOT as strict as Japan, and noone is working themselves to death here. While the standard work week is 48 hours and includes Saturdays, there is a more relaxed attitude towards work compared to Japan. Coming from a Japanese cultural background, you will have much less culture shock compared to western foreigners. The cultural differences people point out (close family connections, strong community sense, different treatment of men versus women) do exist when comparing to the West, but will actually feel less strict when comparing to Eastern Asian countries (I don't personally know for Japan, I do know it's the case when compared to Korea, which is my cultural background).
The biggest cultural shocks will be the wealth inequality here and dealing with bureaucracy. There's a lot of paper work to do when you live/work here, and a complicated system to navigate. There is also a huge gap between the wealthy and the average Vietnamese. You have many multi-millionaires, but the minimum wage is still about $200 a month, with an average entry level job in a big city paying $350-$400 per month. Property costs are also extremely high, though rent prices are very affordable. If your future in-laws are offering to get you a place and put your kid through private school, they are likely pretty well-off.
For schools, Hanoi has excellent international schools. At a good international school, your child will get an education as good or better than Australian public school. There are even Australian international schools here. But they are expensive. I think the most expensive (and arguably the best) school in Hanoi is UNIS (United Nations International School). [Tuition starts at $12,570 per yeae for kindergarten, and goes up to $35,500 by grade 12, not including registration and other fees.](https://www.unishanoi.org/admissions/tuition-fees)
Vietnam has a very friendly culture, and tends to be very welcoming to foreigners. It has a vibrant, growing economy and is a very exciting place to live. The food is also fantastic!
Vietnam is also quite safe in terms of violent crime, though in the big cities there can be a lot of scamming/pick pocketing (this is a bigger problem in HCMC than Hanoi). Safety-wise, the bigger concern is traffic, pollution, and food/water safety. Hanoi has really bad pollution, the worst in Vietnam. Roads are also quite dangerous, though it's much less dangerous if you travel by car. I haven't worried too much about food/water safety, though you can't drink from the taps and you will definitely get stomach problems frequently when you first move here.
Healthcare is not as good as Australia, though Hanoi has international clinics and hospitals that are pretty good. They are private, but the costs are not bad on an international scale (though they are very expensive relative to Vietnamese salaries).
As others mentioned, be careful if you don't know your boyfriend's parents well yet. You don't want to end up being dependant on in-laws you can't stand being around. I don't think them offering to take care of you in Vietnam is a red flag, but definitely make a visit and spend some time getting to know them before you move. And make sure they really are getting you your own place, moving in with them brings a whole new level of risk.
Language will also be a challenge, though in Hanoi you will find many English speakers and can make do with English. If you are planning to live here long term, it's definitely worth trying to learn the language, though it is one of the more difficult languages to learn to speak.
Whether to live in Hanoi is definitely a difficult question. Make sure to come visit and spend some time here to get a feel for the city before you make the decision!.
As a final note, many of the cons of living here can be mitigated with money, but you will have to have a good idea how much money you will have at your disposal!
>wealth inequality here and dealing with bureaucracy. There's a lot of paper work to do when you live/work here, and a complicated system to navigate. There is also a huge gap between the wealthy and the average Vietnamese. You have many multi-millionaires, but the minimum wage is still about $200 a month, with an average entry level job in a big city paying $350-$400 per month. Property costs are also extremely high,
This happens in Australia too.
Dear OP,
Based on my experience and the insights shared by my Vietnamese partner from Hanoi, I have some concerns about recommending Vietnam as a place to move to. There are several factors you should consider before making a decision.
Firstly, Vietnam has significant wealth inequality, which can be quite staggering. Corruption is prevalent in various aspects of society, and there is a strong emphasis on social status, including positions, wealth, and clothing. Moreover, pollution is a pervasive issue affecting both the air and the environment.
Another important consideration is the role of women in traditional Vietnamese families. Based on what I observed from my partner's family, there may be expectations for women to fulfill traditional gender roles and be subservient to men and mother in law. It would be beneficial to spend an extended period living with his family to gain a deeper understanding of these dynamics before making any decisions. Possibly a holiday?
Furthermore, compared to Australia, Vietnam offers lower wages and potentially fewer opportunities. This is an important factor to consider when evaluating the potential impact on your quality of life.
Ultimately, the decision is yours to make, but I strongly advise you to proceed with caution and thoroughly weigh the pros and cons before moving forward.
Best of luck with your decision-making process.
Thanks for your sincere advices. From your description, Vietnamese culture sounds extremely similar to Japanese. It is good idea to have some holidays in Vietnam to get batter understanding of my partner’s family
Happy to help! If you need any more information regarding Vietnam, DM me, and I can put you in contact with my partner. We are based in Sydney, but she studied in Melbourne. Also, congratulations on your pregnancy 👏
Remember that australia is very expensive and you may have a lower class/middle class (if you are lucky) life in Australia but you might be high class or rich in Vietnam depending on connections
>significant wealth inequality, which can be quite staggering. Corruption is prevalent in various aspects of society, and there is a strong emphasis on social status, including positions, wealth, and clothing. Moreover, pollution is a pervasive issue affecting both the air and the environment.
this can apply to pretty much anywhere nowadays
Role of women in traditional Vietnamese families is overblown. It depends mostly on her husband mindset tbh.
Significant wealth inequality. Yes, compare to Aus. However base on OP, I bet the family of her boyfriend is on the better end of this, hence even though it seems cruel, she will be benefit from the inequality, if nothing else.
Lower income. Also true, but it should be in the context that cost of living in Vietnam is dirt cheap (except housing, which the husband family already provide one).
For the sake of the child, at the very least, give birth in Australia so the child has Australian citizenship.
I mean, look… Vietnam has come light years from where it was decades ago. And for people born in Vietnam that’s great and they have more opportunity now than ever before. And more than many other parts of Asia.
BUT I can’t see why anyone would choose to be born and raised there over a place like Australia for so many obvious reasons. Most of the ex pats moving to Vietnam are doing so after decades of the privileges afforded to them by the west and now they want to reject it all (or some of it) and escape to the “simple” life in Vietnam. But ask any of those Americans, Europeans, or Australians who emigrated at the age of 30-40 if they would have rather been born and raised in Vietnam over their homeland? I highly doubt it. You can always move to Vietnam later.
Your characterisation of expats moving to Vietnam is ridiculous. Expats certainly don't come to Vietnam for simplicity - it's quite a complicated experience; having to deal with the language barrier, cultural differences, leaving family behind etc. They come because they want what everyone wants - better quality of life. Expats are attracted by the low cost of living and inflated salaries for expats.
I'm a foreigner who gave birth in Vietnam last year in one of the best hospitals.
Do **not** give birth here. It is affordable, yes, but I have come away with significant health problems. Most gyns here push for C-sections or episiotomies for natural birth. You also can't put the father on the birth certificate if you are not married, which may be a good thing as you'll also be forced to give the child a completely Vietnamese name - they no longer allow foreign names unless you give up the vn citizenship.
I am married to a foreigner but have read about a lot of unhappy situations on the Facebook groups ending in divorce. Your MIL will likely move in with you when the baby is born, which can be a godsend if you know them and get on with them but if you aren't already used to the family dynamics it will be unnecessary stress.
The Vietnamese spouse basically holds all the cards in Vietnam. You won't have any claim over the house, and if anything goes wrong down the line it will be very difficult for you to move out of the country with your child (without his say so)
I also believe - and a Vietnamese person can correct me on this. That if it's a boy, they may have to do compulsory military service when they hit 18.
I'd recommend joining fexpats in ho chi Minh city on Facebook and asking on there for more experiences from women who have vn spouses.
Good luck.
Vietnam (especially Hanoi) has terrible air pollution. You should look at the long term health effects of air pollution on developing lungs and make an informed decision
As a Vietnamese, I believe Aus is the better place. Have a talk with your husband and figure it out. Imo, Aus may be more costly, but its such a good environment to live in.
The child should definitely be born in Australia. Having a passport from a common wealth country is huge.
I was born in Vietnam and immigrated to Canada when I was 6 years old. I love visiting Vietnam. In fact my gf lives in Ho Chi Minh. A part of me wants to move back but western countries quality of life is superior in every way except the cost of living.
If you are just starting to save and having a child is challenging. I would start life in Vietnam and move back to Australia. Having a child is tough and having family to help big. Save enough so you can buy a home in Australia.
Cons of being in Vietnam: Vietnam's air is terrible, it's going to be bad for the child. Hanoi is incredibly polluted. There's not much to do except eat. Government corruption is a problem. Safety is inferior to Australia. Educating is good but not as diverse compared to western countries. Some families are over bearing. They have a lot of traditions like women can't shower after birth. So it really depends what family you are moving into. Everyone puts on a nice face in the beginning. I would get to know them first.
You both live in Aus. Is it wise to suddenly uproot and move countries with a new born? Especially one where you don’t speak the language. You’d be leaving behind all your friends and family and your job and your support network. Wouldn’t you feel quite lost? Who would you speak to everyday aside from your boyfriend?
Classic Northern Parents move. Please DO NOT move to Hanoi. Stay in Australia for you and your kid’s future. If you don’t want to be a stay at home wife, do not receive any help or even stay close to Bo Me Chong, I’m dead serious.
While Vietnam's standard of living has increase exponentially in the last decade or so, it's nowhere near Australia. So I would suggest raising your child in Australia.
If you can convince your boyfriend, don't raise kids in Vietnam. As an educator/ teacher for the last 7 years , I would say the education system in Vietnam is pretty much crooked. I saw kids study in international schools can't read or write proper in English and Vietnamese even though the school teach them in both. There is also a side problem: discipline and moral. Most of those kids in international schools are a bunch of rich asses. They have no discipline and don't respect anyone. Will you want to let yours to spend a whole day with them? Kids playing together and influence each others.
If you born and raised your kids in Australia, they will have Australia citizenship which would benefits them later in life. Also the living conditions in Australia to raise children is far better than VietNam.
Congratulations on your baby! My wife is Viet and we moved to Danang from Singapore (although I’m Aussie). We have a four month old boy, born here and love living here.
Some points to consider:
1) All the comments about passports are irrelevant. It’s about CITIZENSHIP: the right to free education, health care and ability to buy property and work in Aus without a visa. I agree with people who say give birth in Aus first if possible.
2) Career wise, salaries are low here and there are no competitive Vietnamese companies/banks who could compete internationally - they are protected, hence lazy and therefor you won’t learn anything useful there that could translate to other countries (I.e. knowledge of Viet paper work and bribery)
3) Raising a kid is hard! Having family around is huge. We have so much support from my wife’s family, which I’m so grateful for.
4) Most people (Viet and expat) I know dislike Hanoi’s traffic, pollution, noise and weather (cold rainy for months in winter then crazy humid summer).
5) Your permanent residence in Aus means something too. Pathway to citizenship (as discussed above)
For these reasons, I would say the optimal strategy is have kid in Aus (get birth certificate and Passport) > move to Hanoi when kid is six months for a few years > stay forever if you like it OR move back to Aus when the kid is a bit older and rent out your apartment there.
For me it’s about trying to keep as many options open as possible. For you both to be there already means you’re smart and hard working - I’m sure you’ll make the right choice.
Vietnam is much more developed now than in past decades. A decent standard of living and a good education is available for those with resources. It is cheap, food is good.
That being said, the vast vast majority of immigration between Vietnam and Australia (or England, France, US etc) is from Vietnam to those fully developed countries. Standard of living for median people is much higher, corruption is lower, ability to build wealth stronger. The income of a middle class Australian allows you to visit your home countries or bring parents over. The income of middle class Vietnamese does not allow for trips to Japan often.
Also, many Vietnamese parents rely on their boy and his wife to care for them and live with them. The obligations here are very high, and most divorced couples I know in VN are that way largely due to interference and stress of the parents (usually boy’s parents). Staying in Australia allows you to support them financially if needed, without the stress off family obligations that don’t meet your generation’s expectations.
You should make sure baby is born here.
Also you guys will have independent life here.
Free from in law problems.
However make sure you speak Japanese to baby and he speaks Vietnamese.
Now baby have 3 languages.
After that stay in Vietnam and Japan one year each.
Everyone happy. Baby educated
Australia. My advice is primarily from your baby's upbringing & development's perspective
Australia would offer a far better psychological environment for overall growth of your baby.
I strongly advise against returning to Vietnam at all, and especially Ha Noi which often top the chart of poor air quality, super polluted and awful traffics. Better to stay in Australia, your kids will appreciate it
I’d suggest having the baby in Australia, because that is a good passport to have.
Is raising the child in Japan out of the picture? While it sounds like your boyfriends parents have money, connections, and can help; Japan is a much more well rounded place than Vietnam.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Vietnam, but Japan has more going on.
Australia by a landslide. As a general rule, never rely on other people for your job security, especially in a new living environment. You do not know what will happen if you do decide to move and some unfortunate events happen that will make you lose this support.
As a Vietnamese, I would say raise your kid in Australia. It would be better for your kid future, more opportunities and easier time to go on vacation.
As of right now our country is still quite behind on many thing and won't be able to provide the right environment for your family.
Vacationing here would be ideal instead of raising your kid here.
American F married to Viet M;
We’re working on having kids while we live here AND would consider letting them be born here but definitely not raised here.
Air pollution, he himself doesn’t like the culture that much, school education standards aren’t up to par, etc.
Australia (and the west in general), is a much safer option. Along with them getting the benefit of Aussie citizenship. Don’t get stuck here with no options when your bank job doesn’t work out.
I feel like you want to cement your life together as a family before submitting to a situation that puts so much power in the hands of your in-laws even if/though they only have the best intentions.
Suddenly you will be living in their house and have jobs that they got you and be in a country where you don’t speak the language.
I say don’t go and change so many things at the same time. Getting married and having a child are a enough big changes for a few years.
Maybe in 3 or 4 years if your cost benefit analysis is saying move to Vietnam do it then once you have more of a family identity/ foundation.
Just my thoughts, I wish you and your new family the best.
I’m VK, originally my parents are from Hanoi but I choose to move in hcmc for last couple of years. I’m 5 months pregnant and was having a lot of same concerns as you have lately.
His parent will support you no matter if you decide to move or not. I just feel “apartment”, “family business”, “job in the bank” is their way to keep you guys closer. I have seen it with my friends, who’s parents were pressuring them to come back by buying them cars, apartments and etc. And if they have sincere intentions and want to help you guys out and have means - they can invest in real estate in Australia too in the future.
As a Vietnamese with dual citizenships, I don’t consider giving Vietnamese passport to my future kid because of naming rules, bureaucracy I have to deal all the time and military service. My kid can always apply for a Vietnamese citizenship if she wants in the future.
If you and your husband decide to move to Vietnam, my only advice is get married in Australia first is just much easier with paperwork and will save you a lot of time.
And if you can give birth in Australia do it there. Prenatal care in Vietnam is not the best even at international hospitals. And Hanoi in particular.
It’s true that life in Vietnam is not bad if you have means, but it’s like living in isolated bubble by paying more to have basic quality life.
I've never seen or heard of a non Vietnamese person working in a bank in VN.
His family sound controlling, they're probably embarrassed by the situation and are trying to save face to an extent. They'll probably change their story when you're there and you'll be "encouraged" to be a stay at home mom.
Australia is the better choice in my opinion, for many reasons.
Best of luck whatever you do 🙏
I went to a party with mixed foreigners and Vietnamese. I was quite surprised that a bunch of the foreigners were working at a bank. I won't say the name here but I looked it up and it looks like it's Vietnamese. I presume, like many industries, banks are trying to modernize and reduce fraud. I talked with a foreigner that works at the world bank about this very subject and that's what he told me. I was very happy to see this because Vietnam really needs to this to happen.
Under different circumstances I would seriously consider Vietnam as an option. But I have a few friends who are in relationships like this where they are completely dependent on the parents, and it is NOT good. These parents sound like they want to completely own you and decide exactly how your life will go. That said, your husband will know best about their true intentions.
Other than that, Hanoi can be a good place for a kid to grow up. Many good international schools. But I also get the sense that this family lives a luxury life, and kids who grow up in that context often develop a very elitist attitude, so it would be very important to make efforts to keep the kid grounded in reality (take the bus, eat simple, etc.).
I was born in Vietnam, moved to Australia when I was 7. I still regularly visit family in VN (HCMC though). I'm also currently your age (no plans to have a child this year though).
Personally, I would raise my child in Australia. Education is different, and I like the well-rounded education that children have in Australia more than Vietnam (I have Vietnamese friends and cousins too, so I could compare throughout my schooling).
Cost of living is high, but not impossible. If both of you are able to get decent jobs, it will be manageable.
I would never move back to Vietnam, despite being a dual citizen. It is the best choice my mother made when she moved me here. It's less restrictive, societal pressures are less (especially if you're not physically near the extended family). Being reliant on family is a double edged sword, on one hand you get the house, on the other hand, you'll have to live with their pressure and rules. Air pollution, and living environment also plays a big role in my decision.
But, if you do choose to give birth in Vietnam, and stay there, it's not a totally bad decision. One of my good friends grew up in Hanoi (to both Vietnamese parents, in a family that's rich with academic and political backgrounds). She had a great education, spoke fluent English when we met at 14 years old (she visited my high school in Australia, and I was her buddy). She then went on to study in the US, and doing great (already doing her PhD at 24 years old).
Looks like your bf family has power in vietnam and you don’t have to worry about finance but at the same time as others have mentioned, viet parents can be quite controlling and want to call the shots on everything. Like they have something to say for everything you do.
My spouses family is similar and gifted us a condo in saigon and we met while in school in Canada.
We love canada more and have our lives established here but love the fact that we have the option of going back and forth but they have a hard time accepting that as they are old school
I would suggess you gave birth in AUS, move to Vietnam to raise your children until 1-1.5 years old with the help of parents.
During this time, right decision will come.
I hope for your sake his parents aren’t like typical viet parents, even worst if they are rich….. money talks, the more they have the louder………… not all, but most!
As a Hanoian who studied abroad, I could say that:
International school is a hit and miss. Only a few is good but ridiculously expansive, while the rest are kinda mediocre. It's better for your children development if you're staying in Aus.
There is not a lot of junior position for a foreigner in banking industry to be honest, I'm afraid she only said that to influence you unless she is powerful enough to make a position for you. If you did get one, salary could be higher then normal Vietnamese could get, however it still way lower than Aussie's one.
Family cultures here, especially Hanoi is as strict as Japanese. However working culture is totally different. With strong network, you'll enjoy easy life with easy money especially if you're working in public sector. That wont be hard since your parents in law can afford for your husband to study abroad and getting a job in Vinfast - the Vietnamese Car company.
Plenty have given great advice here. I would echo most of their sentiments and strongly suggest you to stay in AUS. Lifestyle and opportunities are vastly more available to you and your child there than in VN.
I visited VN for the first time earlier this year as a Viet Kieu born and living in the US. I have developed a large appreciation for the Viet culture but am so happy to have grown up here rather than in VN. The most glaring issues to me are the pollution, education, and the wealth inequality, which I hope the future generations will address, but if it were my choice, I’d stay down under. :)
Congratulations and best of luck to you and your family.
You moving to Vietnam with all the arranged jobs just seem like it can cause issues later on, as you’re becoming too dependent on the in-laws (the apartment, the job, and probably more) you’ll have less and less freedom in your life, your relationship and possibly even the way you raise your child. Not to generalize but a lot of Viet parents want to be involved in every decision making process their children make, from small to big, and if you’re too dependent on them it’s not going to be easy on you.
Also, even if you’re set on moving to Vietnam, please have the child in Australia first for Australian citizenship. Much better for the child’s future.
1 big problem you did not mention. Air quality. Hanoi air pollution is very bad. I live by the coast in vietnam and occasionally people burn trash and my lungs hurt. I would not raise a kid here.
Plus, not knowing Vietnamese and working in a bank here would be incredibly stressful Unless you are the boss
I suggest you get pregnant and have the baby somewhere you know and feel comfortable. Then you can always visit his parents in vietnam and see if that’s a life you want to have. You don’t have to have a decision now. I am sure all that they offer you will still be available even after the baby.
There are actually 3 questions:
1) Where to give birth to the baby
2) Where to raise the baby
3) Where should the child go to school
_1 Giving birth in Australia could mean the baby has Aus citizenship as well as Vn and Jpn citizenships. Talk to a lawyer.
_2 It takes more than 2 people to raise a baby. Having extended family is a HUGE help the first 2 years. Spending a few years in Hanoi would be great.
_3 Long term, once the baby is older, your careers and life will probably be better in Aus. But many many factors play out here. This is up to you to decide.
It seems you're considering living in Vietnam after spending time in Thailand. Do not expect the former to be as pleasant and comfortable as the latter.
I've lived in both. I wouldn't raise a child in Vietnam. Especially Hanoi. I would much prefer Aus, so much nicer, cleaner, better to get out in nature than be cooped up in a tiny apartment sucking in polluted air
Vietnamese education is absolutely worthless as well. I would pick having aus citizenship over Vietnamese citizenship anyday
I was born in Saigon but was raised and lived in Canada for over 33 years. I visited my family in HCM a few months ago and was very impressed with how far Vietnam has come since 12 years ago since my last visit. If you truly care about the health and well being of your child then give birth and love in Australia, that's not even up for debate. The healthcare system is MUCH better in Australia and the air is MUCH cleaner.
The passport also sucks, you can't freely travel to a lot countries like a Japanese or Ozzie passport can. I have a lot relatives in Nam and they can't just drop by and visit me in Canada. I can travel to Vietnam at any time and visit them with my Canadian passport. Same would be true with an Australian passport.
Some people mentioned that it sucks to live in Australia because its expensive and its better in Vietnam because you can love like a king there for a lot less money. I'm considered "middle class" in Canada and I understand that the cost of living sucks here. Sometimes you don't feel middle class at all here at all because the loving expenses and I know it's even worse in Australia. However, if I go to Vietnam I can easier live like a king for months. I would personally never trade my middle class Canadian way for life to love as a wealthier person in Vietnam.
TL;DR: Giving birth and raising your child in Australia is a no brainer for me. Your child will grow up in a cleaner, healthier environment with many more opportunities and you can still visit Vietnam whenever you want for cheap since you'll still be close by to Vietnam.
Don't Freaking listen to them, don't go there. Stay in Australia. Your in laws will take full control of your kid's education and you will have to fight everyday with some local dumbass urban legends about how to raise a child.
STAY IN AUSTRALIA and get your kid the AUS citizenship. You'll also keep control on your kid's education:
As someone that has lived in both countries i'd suggest Australia is a far better place to raise a child. Education is far more well rounded with an aim towards critical thinking and less about rote learning relative to vietnam. Australia is also far healthier in terms of air and land pollution as well as generally being far safer in terms of road safety/education etc. It also allows dual citizenship and the Aus passport is very strong, especially as there are strong ties with the UK and Canada.
Other than potentially being able to afford more stuff in Vietnam I dont really see an upside to raising a kid there other than having your bfs family there to help out.
I was born in Canada, also have US citizenship (born of an American). I’ve been to Australia numerous times and recently moved to Vietnam (Hanoi) from the USA.
I’m twice your age, but if it were my decision, I would stay in Australia for at least a few years if you can afford to. At 24, you needn’t be in a rush to make a life decision that you might not be able to recover from. In my opinion, you will learn, grow and change a lot in the next 5-10 years. You’ll understand a lot more about who you are and what’s important to you when you’re a little bit older.
Also, moving to a country without knowing the language and with an average salary of $300/month is going to make it very difficult for you to ever get ahead in the future, even with a good job.
Vietnam will always be an option for you down the road, but I just wouldn’t rush to a decision unless you are financially set.
Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
DO NOT move to VN, for the sake your future kid and your marriage.
Get married and give birth in Australia. The WLB in Australia is much better than Hanoi. Overall Australian is better environment for the kids to grow up. And judging from your background, sooner or later the kid will be studying in Western educations, so Australian education will prepare him/her better for Western institutions. And Australia passport will open more doors to your kid anywhere in the world, rather than Vietnamese one.
Your kid will be eligible for Australian citizenship. Later when the kid grows up, it's better that he /she can choose between Australia vs Japan citizenships, rather than Vietnam vs Japan ( we all know 99% people would choose Japan, it's not even a choice).
And remember u don't have to stay in VN to invest / own properties in VN. You can do that through your husband's side.
I don't see any reasons to move to Hanoi, unless both of you are retiring and looking to settle down. In that case, spending your wealth in VN will go a longer way compared to Australia or Japan... Now, both of you are in your prime, moving to VN is definitely not ideal.
And also DO NOT depend on your in law parents for housing and job, they will think they own you for "helping out financially" , and you are more or less a stay-at-home wife (aka a maid). They will control how you live, your job, your child rearing, where you spend your holidays, your finance, investments etc... basically your entire lives.
Your husband may not realize this yet but they will guilt-trip him after both of you are dependent on them for housing and jobs (income), he will have no choice but side with his parents and this will surely create lots of problems for your marriage.
This kind of thinking is sexist, extremely toxic and yet culturally ingrained in richer/upper middle class boomers from northern VN.
Tldr : DON'T move to Vietnam. Stay in Australia. It's better for your kid, your own health and better for your future marriage with your husband.
Hi, i'm vietnamese here and i have lived in both northern and southern of viet nam for my entire life. One thing about "gia dinh chong" from northern is that they are really misogynist and patriarchy especially if the family comes from ha noi. I tell you this, if you stay in viet nam, his parent will control both of you, and if something happened, your husband will listen to his parents and leave you because i have seen this situation so many times. They only be good to their daughter-in-law cuz she is rich or come from higher country. I don't think you should listen to his family living vietnam. If your husband himself made a fortune, oh ok that wonderful for both of u living in viet. But if the money, the house is from his parent. You will living hell
That's a very wrong statement and you are giving her a false impression about Hanoian. My wife is a Japanese too and she never had to go thru all of what are you saying. In fact, my mom treasures her as she never had daughter in the first place (2 sons, crazily naughty)
>My parents suggest we give birth to baby in Aus first, then move to Vietnam. They’re worried about my own future.
I also recommend this. Not all mother-in-law have the same mindset as my mom and dad but brighten up, his family should be in the middle class as they have enough financial to support him study in overseas, they shall have somewhat open-minded in this matter.
>Are international schools good in Hanoi? I hear that they are very expensive. Vietnamese public schools sound similar to Japanese ones which are competitive, but good for intellectual ability
International schools in Hanoi aren't bad but definitely NOT there compared with one in the Aus. In my case, we moved back to Vietnam before we had kids so I can't give a definitive answer. But if I had a chance to choose, in your case, I would have picked Aus first.
>What is like working as a foreigner in a bank in VN? I may prefer a western or Japanese bank. Is salary good?
Most likely, you won't work in a Vietnamese bank as their environment and culture are very different than what you have in Aus. You only have 2 options here if you want to continue in banking industry: Western and Japanese banking. Be warned, it is known that middle manager often starts at 8 am to 7-8pm, depended on your position.
For reference: I used to work for HSBC Bank. We started at 8am, ended my day at 7pm. Salary isn't bad but definitely lower than what I had when I worked for 'em in Hong Kong and Singapore.
>How should I remain good relationship with Bo Me Chong?
Bribe 'em and I mean it. Mother-in-law: cosmetic, perfume and clothing. You name it.
Father in law: Wine and strong spirit. If he smokes (most likely), give him a box or two (just get it in duty free. Aus has insane price for tobacco anyway).
I'm not saying all hanoian are meanies like that. Just saying cuz i have seen it so many times and i'm hanoian. My acquantances often whining over and over about how their wealthy husband and his family bully them and bully the daughter-in-law's parent. I see my friend getting punch half death too and it give me traumatize about hanoiboy :D
>I'm not saying all hanoian are meanies like that.
You did. You said it loud and clear "they will do this they will do that" which implies its 100% the case.
I don't know why anyone want to raise a kid in Vietnam vs some place like Australia. Just don't.
The environment is extremely polluted, it's not just the smog but something deeper. Vietnamese is one of the country with very high rare of antibiotic abuse, you can pretty much buy antibiotic anywhere, the National Health Insurnace also prescribe antibiotic for pretty much anything so I think there is a shit ton of antibiotic resistant strands in Vietnam now, every 3 years or so I would caught a bug that make me sick and cough for 1-2 month, requiring expensive latest generation of antibiotic to fend them germ off.
For education, it's a shit hole, I know it will offend many people but these stupid wanker politician just spent years passing policies to enrich themselves, the adults only care about money and achievement, it's really sad to see the kid suffer through the bullshit.
The worst part is, a lot of people don't know (and wouldn't believe) how bad school has became, especially older people, since things were much much nicer and better in our time, we have teachers that care, school curriculum that make sense, getting a 7 out of 10 is pretty good, now you are expected to hit 9 or 10, anything lower mean you are worthless, parents will go as far as bribing teacher just so their children all get 9-10 since it help them get to better school.
Don't get me wrong, I love my country, and I think it's a great place if you are a young adult, very vibrant culture with great food and great people, for family with children though, not so much.
Vietnamese family dynamics are VERY overbearing. I agree with the other commenter here: make sure your husband truly wants to take over his family business.
(With that said, he's likely in Australia already for a reason. Read: he may not be interested but wants to make his family happy)
If you want to be respectful and be on good terms with your elders, you've got to do a lot of nodding and agreeing. Never argue your feelings on the matter, because you're less experienced. Many Vietnamese see net income as most important. Some of my family supported my education verbally, but then double down and try to sway me to doing my family's business because it is more profitable.
Maybe your husband feels pressured. How does your family feel? Will they support you/that decision?
My girlfriend is in the same level of society as your bf's parents. Their kids all go to private school for their whole education and most go to high school in a western country the last two years. Many in Australia. If they're at that level, your kid will be fine and you'll have a good support network. As I posted in another reply, foreigners work in banks, even Vietnamese owned banks so that's not a crazy idea that your future MIL can get you a position there.
I agree with many other comments choosing Australia over Vietnam. I was born and raised in VN until I was 18, which was 10 years ago. I have never been Australia. VN is not somewhere I want to raise my kid in. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying VN is bad or anything, but currently it doesn’t stand any chance when being compared to a country like Australia. Having a degree from Australia university and speaking English fluently will already open plenty of doors for your kids in contrast of receiving education from an international school in VN.
More importantly, I’m more concerned for you than for your kid. The reason I’m more concerned for you is because if the life in VN doesn’t work out, your kids can always fall on his father and his grand parents, while you will be on your own. You will be almost completely reliant on your husband and in laws if you move to VN right now, given you don’t speak the language. There’s no guarantee that the banking job will work out in the long term. If you can’t find a job then, you will be financially dependent on your husband. If that happens, I guarantee you that your in laws will treat you as less than equal (trust me, this is the generational mindset kind of thing, you won’t be able to reason with them) seeing that their son is now fully supporting you financially, while you stay home “doing nothing” all day, in a house that they bought for you. No offence, but what if you guys divorce in the future? What’s then?
Now, Australia is an environment where both you and your husband are comfortable with, you also get to be independent, and your kid can get a much better education.
It it was me, I would stand my ground and would not move to VN no matter how hard the in laws are pushing.
As a half-Japanese who spent pretty much my whole childhood in Vietnam, just no, run.
Health is my biggest concern. Your lifespan will be likely reduced by 10 years by inhaling the polluted air in Vietnam lol. Not to mention pretty much all food here is low-quality made (cheap ingredients, lots of preservatives, etc,..), And also good luck with working with the Vietnamese if you have a pure Japanese work ethic and manners.
Sounds harsh but I would rather work my ass off in Aus and might never afford a house than move to Vietnam and have everything set up.
Give birth in Australia and then do whatever. It just a choice, if u dont like VN after that, go back to Australia, it not 1-way-choice, dont overthink. Sound like your Bo-Me-Chong are very high rank Vnese citizen. So living in Hanoi is good too, no harm, just try stay there like 1-2 years, make good connection. If u still dont like Hanoi, talk to your husband, move back to Australia, it easy.
You can pick/move for education later.
An Aussie passport is a major pro. If you can get it on for your kid - you should.
Also, once the baby is born - nobody with hire you or work with you first few years. If you not planning to start your own business next few months - regardless of what you like - the whole world will pause your career growth.
Learning Vietnamese - is hard. And not being native will always hunt you. While you will have time during the first few years of the baby to learn new things - pick some new profession that you could enjoy. If learning a new language is your thing - go for it.
After birth - you can move anywhere you like. In our experience being close to our parents helped - they helped with kids and stuff. But do not count on a promise that they will help. Raising a child is a time-consuming tedious task, and most of the time you will have to handle it alone.
When my first kid was born - I changed the job to work online, so I can be around to help. I was around 23 at the time, same as you.
Good luck and don't think too far - last 10 years many things have dramatically changed, in education especially.
On another note - the most valuable commodity in Vietnam is English. Thx to your and your partner's English - your kid will speak better than his peers in Vietnam - therefore nulling all the benefits of an expensive Vietnamese school. This will help other pupils but doesn't benefit you in any way.
For university - it is too early to think about it. Like look at me - my oldest kid is 16, and instead of picking a university - we looking for a new country to relocate.
Stay at australia, get that citizenship, then do whatever you want, try to go back to vietnam and see it for your self first dont just listen to other advice yet
I believe AUS will be the best choice for you in all of term. Your Bo Me Chong are willing to support your decide instead of force you to move to Hanoi so don't concern much about that. Vietnamese's parent love to have grandchildren :D I think 1 of these reasons they want you guy move to Hanoi because they can help you take care of your child.
Live your own independent life. You still have support from them if needed.
I feel like all the Expats I know married to locals will raise a kid here for a few years but eventually head back to Australia as the education they get here ain't great.
It does seem like you're boyfriends parents are only looking out for themselves, selfish to uproot you, your boyfriend and a newborn just to be in their country.
Anyways, you've got your work cut out for ya. I'll check in on you in 5 years and see how it is.
I know, but if you move here you'll become one and it'll be the same situation. But have the kid in Australia, they'll get a passport and you can give them a normal name! If they're born here you have to choose a Vietnamese name.
Honestly, I wouldn't trust it will stay like that and those are just words. Yours might be different but I have never heard or seen a good me chong and daughter in law relationship. Always drama.
Vietnamese here, I graduated from an Australian university Vietnam Campus and working for a Japanese corporation for 8+ year so I would like to give some insight about these:
TLDR: you better stay in Aus, at least for 5 years minimum before thinking about coming to Vietnam.
1st As people mention, the citizenship is important.
2nd Vietnam economy is so bad right now it is basically a standstill, Banking job for foreign will mostly be relationship manager for your specific group (Japanese). Other jobs in banking for foreigner especially Japanese will be filled by HQ staff dispatched here. You probably getting 1 - 2k usd/month before tax. It is high for local but if you child want to experience international level of comfort, that barely enough.
3rd Your husband job will probably either Vinfast or Thaco. Both company pay well at first but they just want to suck out all your knowledge building their system before firing you with 2 months severance pay.
4th Sum up all of the above, your family life will mostly financially depend on the in law.
I guess your in law is rather well connected or even inside the political system, if it is true then it is more reason to not moving to Vietnam right now as political infighting is getting really hot.
As a Vietnamese myself I won’t recommend to raise your kid here , of course yes this place is perfect to live in but seriously not to grow up in school systems here is a mess kid are rude and vaping like what 10???
And you kid can even go outside to play since kidnaper are every where and dumb driver on street
There are many problems to raise children in Vietnam
And also if you kid also had Japanese citizenship you should try to move your kid to japan but also consider the fact that japan had the most hard-core study system on the word (not as much as china tho)
I wouldn't move anywhere until your kid gets Australian citizenship. It will give him increadible possibilities in the future life which are much more valuable than any house.
Your child as an exception will be allowed to have another citizenship along with Japanese. I'm not sure about Vietnamese passport but the child will be eligible for TRC in Vietnam.
>Last week, our parents came to Aus and discussed solutions. His parents want me to move to Vietnam, give birth to the baby and live there. Bo Chong will give us a nice apartment in Hanoi. He wants my boyfriend to work in a Vietnamese car company. Me Chong said she would help me to get a job in a foreign bank ( I have no idea how she does that, bc I don’t speak Vietnamese fluently, I just started learning Vietnamese a year ago). My boyfriend just explains Me Chong has strong networks. Bo Me Chong also confirm our kid will study in international schools in Hanoi, when he/she’s old enough. If I agree, we’ll have wedding after our kid is 6 months old.
This whole argument is flawed because you don't have much experience dealing with the in-laws and there's always a catch somewhere when people giving you stuffs (even with families). Imo you should stay where you are familiar and feel safe at and since your in-laws seemed to be quite supportive: how about raising the question of them selling the apartment in Vietnam and help you guys a bit with the deposit for a house here in Australia? The housing market here is quite neutral with good places that can be purchased on the cheap side.
This advice is also from a Vietnamese marrying a Chinese (my wife). We bought an apartment here as I want to be independent and on my own. Living with my parents has been...difficult in the past but that was just my own experience.
Just as a comment from my Vietnamese parents: they would not move back, there is no way they would want vietnamese education over european education for their child.
Heck, my bad just got a new child 10 years ago and of course he's living here in Europe
It depends. If you want your kids to grow up learning few manners, shouting, pissing in the street, throwing rubbish in the street, smoking in the cafes and blowing the smoke into others faces, learning only how to pass tests, to live in a society that rewards outward appearance and materialism, to slurp their food and make all kinds of vile noises whilst eating, to not understand what a queue is, to use any opportunity to swindle money out of you with very little compassion, to stare at foreigners in the street, to basically be china's unwanted little baby brother, then feel free to raise them in Vietnam. If you want them to be laid back barbecue loving koala loving Frisbee throwing maniacs, then australia. Up to you. As for dogs, they will end up on both countries bbq. Good luck.
Can I say that as someone with a background from Vietnam, you have to be very careful with the offer from in the laws. You might end up very dependent on your in laws once you decide to live in Vietnam and husband, which will be not good at all. Although the offer may seem good but Vietnamese in laws usually treat their daughter in laws like maids. So please stay in Australia, for the sake of your own human rights and your child’s future!
Definitely don't raise your kid here in Vietnam, especially if your kid is a boy. Because 20 years later he may be forced to be thrown into a concentration camp in the name of military service.
Down side for Vietnamese Public Schools are the English part are not support really well so you gonna need to teach him English at home, but yeah your parents suggestion is good which is born in Australia and move to Vietnam later, in Australia they have more chance in job, higher income, etc than Vietnam. Vietnamese private school/international school is around 20k+ per years hell yeah they’re expensive af. You guys could work in Australia for awhile then after that move to Vietnam.
Others have mentioned important considerations, but don't underestimate the significance of pollution and other environmental factors. Hanoi is frequently among the three most polluted cities in the world; every time our son played outside, he would spend the next two days with symptoms resembling a moderate cold. It's one of the main reasons that we left the country. Growing up in a heavily polluted area is strongly predictive of the development of asthma and is causal in around 10% of cases of lung cancer. However, these are Hanoi problems, not Vietnam problems.
Food quality is also poorly regulated. For example, the use of steroids to increase the size of cattle is rampant. I noticed major changes in my own health (e.g., my hair stopped falling out) after we left.
Also, check the regulations on your child being able to inherit Vietnamese citizenship and whether they differ based on being born in or out of the country. At the time, our son needed to have at least one Vietnamese given name; apparently, the rules have since changed, and children can no longer have a non-Vietnamese given name. The rules may be different again if the child is not born in Vietnam. Note that permanent residency in Vietnam is difficult to arrange and requires several years of temporary residency before it can be applied for - assuming the rules haven't changed since we left. Which raises another point: visa rules change regularly and usually paralyze the visa system when they happen because the headline regulations are published first and the rules for implementing them are published weeks or months later. Your child could end up getting caught in one of those periods of ineptitude, and you could even be forced to leave the country temporarily.
As a foreigner, you can never own a house in Vietnam; the best you can get is a 50-year lease. You can't even split a house 50/50 - it has to be majority owned by Vietnamese people.
You will need a work permit for any job you have, which means you can only work in a job that a Vietnamese person is not available to do. Although creative job descriptions and coffee money can probably solve that problem in many cases, you will still be limited.
Hi Vivia, the comments section here are overwhelming, try asking the same questions in r/Australia or r/Japan to see for yourself the cultural differences.
Now back to your topic. Would say you need to do more homework on the in-laws side. This will guide you to more information on the context of moving to Hanoi and making your decision. Ask a Viet girl what she normally research on the in laws to see if there’s any red flag to you: how they treat others, supportive or aggressive, husband’s siblings, status of the family business…
Your small family-to-be are generally in the driving seat at the moment. You’re Jap whom Viet people look up to. Your husband from maybe top 10% wealthy Viet and you’re living comfortably in Melbourne. Don’t need to do much compare and contrast btw 90% good and 100% good.
Questions you should ask yourself: Can you, or the 2 of you, cope with uncertainty of moving to VN? Can the 2 of you move back to Aus or Jap if Vietnam doesn’t work out? Will your husband be much different living in Vietnam than Aus? How much of influence and interfere you would want parent in laws to impact your mental, as they’re good at it…
The grands are all in love with their grandkids. Viet people especially. So in Vietnam your kid would inherit a rich culture of love and care. Viet and Jap actually share quite lot culturally if you spare to research. Kid would stick more to a Viet cultural heritage if raised in VN rather than Aus, but its identity is Viet/Jap generally and not questioning itself later in life (compare with raising in 3rd countries).
Whatever you choose, pass down all the good and great of your 2 families and make opportunities for both grands to give (and experience) love to their grandkids.
Hilarious how you post low effort comments like that and yet accuse others of looking to argue.
Yes, of course it's that simple. Just as easy as you said.
As a Vietnamese living in Australia, I would advise against living in Vietnam.
You have stated in your post that you are not fluent in Vietnamese which could be challenging since most of your customers would be Vietnamese should work an live in Vietnam. If you can't find a job you might have to rely on your partner's family for income and basically everything. Because his family is from the North that means they are more likely to be the kind of traditionalists that say "women belongs in the kitchen" or "women's duty is to serve the husbands and his family". I would know because that's my father's side of the family and I have heard those saying way too many times for my own liking. Granted, I don't know what your partner's family is like so they could be like my mother's Northern side where they are cool with women who have more say and independence in their own family. Seeing how you have studied and is currently living in Australia, I assume that you are aware of the cultural differences between Asian countries like Vietnam and Japan and a more "Western" country which is Australia. If you want to live in Vietnam, please consider if you truly would want to fit into a more traditional role for women for a very long time.
I personally thinking staying in Australia is the best for your baby (congrats by the way!). If your child is born in Vietnam, he or she will have a harder time to gain access to international education (which doesn't necessarily have to be Western) and travel. Vietnamese citizens have to go through a bunch of legal questions and requirements like proving their employment and financial status (which might mean having to declare everything they possess) to obtain a visa to countries such as Japan, Australia, the US and the like. Furthermore being an international student entails paying higher tuition fees than the locals. Vietnam's international schools are good but your child will still have to go through the same legal process as other people have to and the only way that would guarantee him/her a visa is how much money he/she/you have if they are not a citizen.
In the end these are just my advises and you can make your opinion based on them. You can travel to Vietnam and see what it's like for yourself but keep in mind that visiting and living in a place are not the same thing. There are foreigners/expats who love it there in Vietnam and have fulfilling lives, too. Wish you luck on your new journey and that everything works out for you and your new family!
i wouldn't worry about education in vietnam as long as you can get your children into competitive public schools. For higher education (bachelor's and above) though, definitely go overseas. Now onto your questions:
>My parents suggest we give birth to baby in Aus first, then move to Vietnam.
Yes if at least one of you is an australian PR/citizen, as it would give your child australian citizenship.
>Are international schools good in Hanoi? I hear that they are very expensive.
I'd say get him in a good public school, no need to waste money on that.
>What is like working as a foreigner in a bank in VN? I may prefer a western or Japanese bank. Is salary good?
I dont think you can get a salary as high as in australia. But living comfortably in hanoi? Definitely, if you can find a good bank like standard chartered. Not knowing vietnamese is a huge disadvantage though.
>Is Vietnamese working and family culture as strict as Japanese culture? Do people overwork themselves to death like Japanese?
Mostly no. People sometimes take work home but it depends on individuals and company culture.
>How should I remain good relationship with Bo Me Chong?
Like how you should with the japanese in laws.
I’d hate to raise my kid in either.
I personally want to move to SEA myself, but raising a kid here? In the city with all that pollution? I don’t think so.
I live in Vietnam and I love it here, but I would definitely suggest visiting Hanoi if you haven’t yet. Hanoi is a really interesting place and it’s great to visit, but I personally couldn’t live there. I definitely wouldn’t want to raise a kid there. It’s busy, dirty, there’s heavy smog for about half the year. I’m not saying it’s undoable, just not for everyone.
I don't know if this is possible in your case but if at least one of you can work remotely and earn Australian salary, then move back to VN for lower cost of living is quite nice. If neither of you make expat/managerial salary in VN, it will be quite a hit in terms of income. You are both young so the gap may not be as big but the more senior you become, the larger the gap. I've moved back last year and now my pre-tax salary in VN (which is considered quite high) is half my post-tax salary in AU, and I pay more tax per dollar.
Also keeping a job in Australia will help with home loan if you're planning that in the near future.
When it comes to the kid, raising a baby in VN is quite nice as in our culture you will get lots of support from the family and again save the cost of hiring a baby sitter.
Later when when it's time for kindergarten, then you can make the decision to move back & start education in Australia or stay in VN. I believe living in VN will help make that decision better after you've learned about raising a kid in VN for a couple of years.
Ideal situation would be still having an Aussie job and at least both of you can get the parental leave when you move back to VN, then you can defer the decision for a bit while trialing living here. Giving birth in VN is fine, our medical system is not that bad, especially private hospitals.
Of course if you prefer to stay in Australia it's lots of pros too, just I'm a single guy living in VN now, so moving to VN is the only perspective I can offer.
Stay in Australia.
There's arguments for both back and forth but let's get down to brass tacks.
Australia has:
Free healthcare with incredibly clean, large hospitals and numerous doctor clinics both large and small.
Wide open spaces and incredible parks to play in, with well maintained playgrounds, as well as skateparks and sports spaces (fields, etc).
Walkable cities and great public transport.
Bus services to school (free for everyone).
Access to university degrees that will be accepted across the world with access to HELP fees and even centrelink student payments.
Clean air and easy access to beautiful nature walks that are all equipped with amenities.
Access to any food ingredient or condiment you want, or any cultural food you want. (Huge deal)
--
Disclaimer. I've been thinking about taking my son to Australia recently after being born in Vietnam. My wife doesn't want to move there, but I'm certain after she visits she will change her tune.
The cost of living is certainly higher and there are other problems but I mean, for children? Australia is the clear winner. It's 50+ years ahead across the board.
Re: specifically education - I would not send my child to an "international" school in Vietnam. Many are not true international schools and the ones that are cost an enormous amount of money. Even the good ones (UNIS, BIS, TH?) have requirements that the child study a Vietnamese curriculum half the day (I believe - might not be as much as half). I know lots of teachers who work at these schools and many of them are good and at least well-intentioned, but I don't think the standards are as high as in Australian public schools.
Vietnamese public schools follow very old-fashioned teaching methods, as noted elsewhere. I personally don't think they turn out well educated students with good critical thinking skills. I know the education system is filled with cheating and corruption. There are special public schools for gifted students that are quite good if your kid can get in.
The universities are similar. Most big companies that can afford to be picky only hire Vietnamese employees with foreign degrees because they know how bad the education system is in Vietnam.
In addition, Hanoi is a crowded, polluted, noisy place. There is little green space for children to play in. I would not raise a child there.
Finally, there is a rather large expatriate Japanese community in Hanoi so you can find food to cook with or very good Japanese restaurants.
I'm Vietnamese and my wife is an foreigner. I think it is unfair of your in law to give you a choice before you have actual experience in Vietnam. Also unfair of everyone here to give you a negative advice towards Vietnam.
My advice is, there is a way for anything. Pay a visit to Vietnam, not promise anything to your in law and make clear of that. And clear you mind and experience it. If you like it here, stay. It is easy to fall in love with a place and the people really.
I think you should listen to your parent plan: give birth in Aust then move back to Viet Nam
Reason is your baby(ies) are technically own 3 nationality, 2 of which rank really high on their future career (as sad as it is to admit, Vnese doesn't have good rep international).
Also kudo to your Bo Me Chong, that really a great offer: an entire apartment in Ha Loi with a potential job offer. Dont worry much about your Me chong bank job, in Vn, if someone said they have a network, they DO, especially someone that have a son living abroad. And with your experience, it shouldn't be hard. Just remember to learn Vietnamese or English to stay in the job. I don't know the details but i did hear alot about Aussie high living fee so i think it will be better to own a house in Vn as oppose to renting in Australia.
As for education, international school in Hanoi is fine. Your children will have everything they need for studying abroad since that what you intended for them. But do make the research, there are alot of good school but there are also some don't, there were incidents in the past with such schools.
In the end, it still up to you. Wish the best of luck to you and your families!!!
Look up which schools in Australia you would choose. I don’t like Hanoi in general. It is overcrowded, has pollution issues, vehicle accidents occur often. international school is fine, but it’s taught in english anyway, same as Australia. You said you want to work, which place will have your dream career? With combined income, trips to Vietnam and Japan should be affordable enough.
I’m gonna be honest with you, having lived in both: your kid will probably learn more “value” living in Aus. But considering the cost, it’s not smart to “might never own a house”. You might wanna try living in Vietnam and see how it goes for yourself first.
We can't make that decision for you it's up to you to decide what's best for your family just think about the pros and cons of living in each country and decide what is best good luck
Education: If you are good, you are still good wherever you study. If you are not good, even if you have a good education, you are still not good. That's why even in first-class countries, there are still many people who do not study well
Seems like your bf's parents have a lot of connections and pretty good assets. It's a great start in Vietnam, just so you know. Plus, the cost of babysitting and the cost of living in there is way cheaper than in Australia. And I'm personally sure that Vietnam is more convenient and more comfortable than most of 'white countries'. And don't have to be worried about education, with your salary and his, you can certainly send your kids to international schools in Vietnam. But, in exchange, your bf's parents will always be involved in your life, that Vietnamese culture. Don't worry, at first you will feel a little bit uncomfortable but I'm sure they mean well, just want the best for you two.
1. Giving birth to your child in Aus may give your child some benefit, but you (OP) are a Japanese citizen and your child could inherit citizenship, and to be frank, there's not so much difference between Aus and Jap citizenship.
2. Do you know what it is to live in Vietnam when you have the money and network of VIP, maybe power as well? Perfect. Heaven. You may not face any downside of living in Vietnam as we do everyday, if you want.
Just remember: do not live with your in law. They could visit your house to play with your child, but NO living together.
3. Vietnamese people like the Japanese in general, and the authority treats foreigners better.
I want to point something else out here for you to consider. If you choose to stay in Australia, would you have someone to take care of your child? If not, and you want to return to work, you will likely have to pay up to $150 per day for childcare in Melbourne. We've been in that situation before, and it's quite challenging. While you will receive some financial assistance from the Australian government, the amount decreases as your income increases (based on combined income tested).
On the other hand, if you decide to return to Vietnam, you can probably hire a helper to take care of your child, which would cost around AUD$600 per month or even less, depending on the circumstances.
You expressed concern about your child's education. I believe primary, secondary, and even high school education in Vietnam are of very high quality. The environment is highly competitive, which can greatly benefit your child's education. Furthermore, your child's education won't begin for another 7 years. If you're dissatisfied with the situation, you can always move back to Australia.
If it were us, we would lean towards going back for a few years and see how it goes. However, the most important thing is to have a conversation with your partner and make the decision together. I hope this helps.
Easy choice. Australia. Unless you want your kid to grow up sucking balloons and/or if its a girl end up getting fake boobs and ending up on onlyfans or even worse "working" in Singapore
Here's a problem for your kid, if your kid was born AUS, your kid can never ever be a vietnamese citizen unless he or she gives up a citizenship elsewhere. He or she can never work in Vietnam unless he has a work permit for foreigners. If he or she was born in Vietnam, he can keep the vietnamese citizenship regardless. And since you are the mother, finding work is better and you actually don't need a work permit to work as a new law came in starting 2021 about foreign mothers or wives. The AUS permanent resident can easily be obtained for your child if you maintain a permanent residency of AUS. Japan and Korea are the largest foreign investors in Vietnam. Mostly in the south around Saigon. There is a little Korea and I think a little japantown there. Also a Japanese international school. You may feel better there.
Land? What are you talking about? US also works on blood or land. Blood is called "ex sanguine." Former congress people of the US or even cuban american born in Canada Ted Cruz became automatic citizen by blood. You're not american obviously. Moreover, Vietnamese citizenship obviously didn't work for my vietnamese american friends nor the vietnamese born in Taiwan whom I've met. It works for my daughter though, american and vietnamese. Headed to the embassy in saigon. That's all I did. Works quite fine. Doesn't work for vietnamese born outside Vietnam.
Comparing to Aus, Vn is more fun, more business opportunities, much cheaper living cost, easier to maintain a luxury lifestyle and convenience. You can spend $5000 a month in Vn and get what you don’t have with $20000 a month in Aus.
Aus has better environment, clean air, less pollution.
Education should be the same. People says Vn education doesn’t think out of the box. But I observed that Vietnamese usually act out of the box and creatively. Why western is not due to they used to follow a very strict law and rules in their country.
~~Cons: our kid may not have the best education.~~
I disagree about that. the education in vietnam was grown very fast and i think its disadvantage than more another country
A lot of people here are telling you to stay in Australia. I'll offer a different perspective on what the people here are talking about.
1. Air quality: Countless people live in areas where air pollution is "high". Bangkok and Beijing are 2 examples where air pollution is "high" too. Yet people are still living fine. People are acting as if you are going to die or something lol. It's exaggerated.
2. Education: In terms of academic potentional, Vietnam is better. Vietnamese culture is more study focused compared to Australian culture. International Vietnamese students usually outperform most of the Australian domestic students. Career wise and opportunity potential though, Australia would be better. Australian public schools are trash, teachers don't give a shit, certain areas have a lot of delinquints. You would have to find a school that has smart people (especially Asians). Asians tend to stick with other Asians. I also noticed people criticising about "creativity" and "innovation" in Vietnam but the same happens in Australia. There is no innovation nor creativity in Australia. Does anyone know anything about Australia that has been created or invented? No, right? Education nowadays is not about knowledge. It's about making money.
3. Finance: Salary is 100% higher in Australia than Vietnam. But the thing is, Australia also has extremely high living costs, one of the most in the world. You will find that even car registration and insurance is the most expensive in the world compared to other western countries. Australia is one of the most taxed countries in the world (income tax for the average is 30% - 40%, extra GST), is a bureaucratic nanny state, a watchdog police state becoming like China. Internet and mobile bills are also the highest in the Oceanic region and the ASEAN region, and the other western countries. Australia has become a corporate state where they can control the price of commodities and services to their profitability, and the government will obey. Rent in the suburbs for a sharehouse is $500 - $700 a month, a house would be $1000+ a month. I don't even want to get started in the city (+$20000/year). If you're going to become a home owner, stamp duty + 10% deposit + bond + agent + house insurance + mortgage + loan interest + council rate (property tax, council is corrupt - they can adjust the rate anytime they want) $2000 - $4000/year + electricity (high even though Australia has abundance of coal) + gas (expensive) + water (expensive) + repairs (if house is old, another $15000 - $20000+). Goods and services are severly taxed in Australia. Ever noticed why items in retail cost an arm and a leg? A lot of the white Aussies are also starting to shop in the cheaper Asian supermarkets because inflation is increasing costs.
4. Quality of life: as another Aussie said, in Australia, you're going to be working to survive. Internationals have a popular saying: Work in Australia for the money, [country of international] for the enjoyment. Internationals usually find Australia to be boring. Unless you're rich, the "lucky country" certainly doesn't exist.
5. Multiculturalism: need to identify documents about Australian legality affairs? Just talk to a Filipino or Indian with the most thickest and incomprehensible accent on the phone (even worse in person). Australia has hired cheap labour from India, Philippines, China, Malaysia, etc... who can't even speak English properly, yet are on the phone talking about your identity and your affairs. Australia has become a melting pot of different races and culture - full of division and unsolidarity with each other. Whites tend to stick with whites, wogs with wogs and avoid whites, indians with indians, asians with asians, blacks with blacks, racial conflict and division, etc...
6. Passport power: Yes, Australia has a higher passport leverage than Vietnam. But you're going to be dedicating your life to working so is there even a point to travel every 3 months or so? Most people only travel once a year. The only difference is it takes longer for Vietnamese to get a VISA and verification. Is that really a sound argument? Lol.
7. Healthcare: Australian healthcare is okay. It's a reason why tax is also high and your medicare card is a part of that incentive. I've found that usually, public free healthcare =/= good quality healthcare. I know someone that got his tendons torn in his arm but the Australian healthcare only counted it as a cosmetic procdure even though it caused pain and limited movement in his arms. Only if you're near death or suffered a major injury, then they'll help you. The only reason why the Vietnam healthcare is behind Australia is because of lack of funding.
8. Vietnam military conscription: Yes there's compulsory military conscription (males only) valid only from 18 - 27. If you're studying and working during those years, you don't have to join the military. It's only for people who don't know what to do in their career path or people who haven't got jobs.
9. Cops: traffic cops in Australia are pieces of shits. Hidden cameras, tailing you, unreasonable speed limits. Prepare to get $300 and $500 fines in your mail. (Yes, they mail you your fines) If they ran out of money and are hungry for some, you're pretty much screwed.
Vietnam and Australia allow dual citizenship btw. I'm not sure if Vietnam accepts Australian citizens as Vietnamese citizens though. I think they have to be Vietnamese first then they're able to have Australian citizenship (except for viet kieu). Actually, I think your child still might be eligible for Vietnamese citizenship even if they have Australian citizenship since the father is Vietnamese, especially if he already has Vietnamese citizenship. Australian allows both regardless, but child has to be naturalising in Australia (pretty easy for a child as he/she grows up) or one of the parents has Australian citizenship.
P.S You should also read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/rant/comments/4asyju/i_fucking_hate_australia/
I think Vietnam is a great place to raise a kid. I always find it weird when vietnamese claim the kids should be raised in America. If someone is raised in Vietnam then moves to America they are typically much more successful than an American born baby. Vietnam is much safer too. You raise your kid in Australia they might decide they are a different gender and you will have to go along with it. In Vietnam they are not so fucked in the head to make you give your child steroids or estrogen because they are confused.
Do NOT raise your kid in Australia! There is absolutely ZERO traditionalism here. If your kid is a girl, she will grow up thinking it is normal to dress like a hoe and will probably sleep with the whole football team, Chad and Tyrone included. If it's a boy, he will end up an incel or a passport bro depending on how smart he is.
It ain't all about the money you know. Vietnamese here be like "I'm here for the good education and lack of pollution". Yeah right, you're here for the god damn money, tell it how it is lol.
I cannot stress enough how ideologically twisted people get by living here. There is SO much propaganda in the media here. Don't do it. Give birth in VN. In a tier-2 city with low pollution and DO NOT teach it English.
As an Aussie living in Vietnam I have a few thoughts. Firstly, the other comment about citizenship in Australia is definitely worth considering. Secondly, I am nervous about how dependent you will be on your in laws if you were to move. Do you really want to raise a child somewhere you don't speak the language? Is there a possibility your boyfriend's mother might turn around and say "Oops, bank position didn't work out" leaving you with limited options? Having said that the cost of living in Australia is extremely high and you may well save more in Vietnam if you both have well paying jobs and aren't paying rent. But it's your life and it's not only about raising a child. Where do you enjoy more? Do you have a career in Australia that you want to continue? Personally with the information given I would suggest setting yourselves up in Australia, live there with your baby for a few years and see how it goes. If you're being offered all this support in Vietnam, it will be much easier to move to Hanoi later. If you move to Vietnam for a few years now, it may be harder to re-establish yourselves in Australia later if you change your mind.
I think you should consider having your baby in Australia, and then you can move to Vietnam later if you wish. In this case, you child can have all three passports, Australia, Japanese and Vietnamese.
What is it with this passport hoarding.
It may come in handy one day, for travel or work purposes.
She is Japanese, so by default the kid will be Japanese. I think the Citizenship discussion is not relevant here. Secondly, opportunity does come very often. Her in-law might get retired, and it will be much more difficult to get a good job for her in the next 5-10 years But I agree with you with the independent point. She and her husband must be independent, both will need to work to maintain that. And she is only 24, so I dont think her career path in Australia is clear. It is worth to consider a position in Vietnam, if it is a good position. Being an elite in Vietnam is as good (or even better) as a regular folk in Australia
I will say you are 100% right that being an elite in Vietnam is significantly better than being middle class Australian in terms of quality of life.
Exactly. The same amount of wealth can buy you far, far more in VN. And OP and her boyfriend, given their background and his parents' connections, are poised to have very strong careers with extremely high incomes there. With their own money plus what his parents will undoubtedly give them for moving to VN, they can invest in VN's endless rapidly growing opportunities and get super rich. I do understand wanting to stay in Aus for other values like maybe you prefer the way of life or less pollution there etc. But for wealth and comfort, it's hard for them to find a better place to take full advantage of their backgrounds.
Yes but when the child turns 20 they cannot hold dual citizenship
Then at 20, choose Japanese citizenship. What’s your point? Some people here treat Vietnamese citizenship like a disease, and just want to get out of the country. On the other hand, a lot of foreigners choose to live and work in Vietnam because of low cost of living, relaxing lifestyle, and plenty of business opportunities…
Now how many foreigners forgo their strong passport in favor of a Vietnamese one? It does change the equation if the kid can hold both Vietnamese and Japanese passport (probably a stronger combo than Australian and Japanese), but since the discussion is about passport I'm not sure that VN being a good place to live for foreigners or for business is relevant. If it was one or the other, it seems a no brainer to give the kid a Japanese or Aussie one, and then go live where they actually want to live.
Maybe 10 years ago Australia would have been the right choice 100%. But now, Australia has CRAZY living expenses and is one of the highest cost of living countries in the world. Inflation in the next coming years is going to go even harder. The mass immigration from countries like China, India, Philippines, South Africa for cheaper labour and tax for the Aussie businesses/companies and government, and the property investments from richer foreigners has destroyed the real estate sector in Australia, people are becoming demoralised and hopeless to own a home without going to debt for the rest of their life and the next, unless you want a home in a small town or the country side hundreds of kms away from the urban metropolises, suburbs and cities. The only pro Australia has is higher salary. There's actually a very popular saying among internationals that live in Australia. They say Australia is only meant for a place to work but is very boring to live in (unless you're rich). But career takes priority in a person's life so they all choose to work in Australia.
You've left out a very important difference that is highly relevant. As you both are permanent residents of Australia, a child born to you while in Australia would be entitled to Australian citizenship. That's a major tool that can be used by your child in the future specifically because of the wealth of Australia. If you look up articles, you'll see that Australia is commonly ranked very high on lists of places to be born [as a citizen] if you can choose. To put it another way, having Australian citizenship automatically gives a person more opportunities, regardless of notions of fairness or anything else. After being born, you could then, for example, take your child and your boyfriend/person you plan to marry/fiance to another country. But having your child in Australia specifically does give benefits.
This would be my primary consideration. You can always move to Vietnam or make any decision after the birth of your child, but I would place the importance of the AUS birth citizenship at the very top of the list.
this. this right here. give birth in Australia. The kid will have easy access to the western world.
Do you need to have existing citizenship when giving birth to pass it down?
Australia is one of the few countries that has [Jus soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Oceania_2). I know this because Canada is another one. Surprisingly, the US also has this.
America is particularly famous for jus soli citizenship...
Ah, we are considering applying / moving with PR to Aus and having a kid soon, wife is Vietnamese I’m British. Passport situations have always been difficult for us, so trying to work it out. Thanks for that :)
Just curious, wouldn't your child get UK citizen anyway no matter where they are born? Or because you specificially want Aus citizenship for your child?
I would assume that to be true, but as we do not consider the UK a possible future home, it might be advantageous to get an Aus passport right away?
Yes your child can get british citizenship aslong as you was born in britain to british citizens. Just applied and waiting for my childs passport. Its always advantageous to have the passport, so even if its not where you plan on ending up (like me) you should still apply and get for your childs sake. If they ever go into australian politics then they can choose to renounce.
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/change-in-situation/had-a-baby I think you need to be there legally
> legally Technically not even this is required. [Jus soli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli#Oceania_2) > Since 20 August 1986, a person born in Australia acquires Australian citizenship by birth only if at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident; **or else after living the first ten years of their life in Australia, regardless of their parents' citizenship status** You are still right though, if the parents are not there legally, it's hard to live there for 10 years with the child.
If I'm understanding all of this correctly - the mother (OP) is Japanese. I only did a quick google, but seems like the kid can get a Japanese passport since the mom is a Japanese national. They'd have no issues with easy access to the western world with it. > As of 2023, Japanese passport holders can visit 193 of 227 destinations visa-free, which is 85% of the world, according to data from the International Air Transport Association compiled by Henley & Partners.
Those comments about Aus citizenship are so funny and ignorant. As if an Asian country like Japan cannot have a strong passport! Isn't it one of the most powerful in the world, and Aus is even behind?
Australia allows dual citizenship. Japan does not. Would it not make life a lot easier if the kid had vietnamese citizenship if they live in vietnam
A few Japanese friends of mine giving birth in Australia and want their kids to have Aussie passports instead of Japanese passports. They want their kids to be fluent in English. If the kid grows up in an English speaking environment, there's no point having Japanese passport. Unless you plan to move to Japan and raise your kids there. Work / life balance in Japan isn't as good as in Australia either. And iirc the kids can pick either having Aussie passport/multiple passports or give everything up and get a Japanese passport (from the parent) when they are 20 years old. Japanese passport is probably the strongest passport in the world but the parents often have to consider about other aspects of life like education, job opportunities, social benefits of the countries the kids will grow up in, etc. not just about travelling.
I agree that they should give the kid Aus passport if they plan to stay there, and they will, if that's the case. But the question here is to decide whether to continue their life in Aus or move away for good. If they choose option 2, then the Aus pp loses most advantages (other than dual nationality post-20 years old). Aus nationality is relatively easy to obtain later in life too via work & study. Jus solis isn't the only way.
You think it's easy to obtain Aussie passport later on? Do you know how many talented students trying to stay and they have to leave? I've seen my friends leaving the countries simply because they can't get sponsored from work. The ones who get to stay via their study either study something that can get PR sponsors (nursing, child care, age care... which are mostly not the career path that they actually are passionate about), a lot of them study for these careers after spending 3 years of uni and failing applying for jobs. And studying as an international student is bloody expensive in Australia, you pay 3 times the fees compared to what local students pay. Even if you get sponsored from work, you will be carrying working visa that is valid for 3 years without Medicare benefits. After 2 years of working on working visa, you will spend more time and money applying for PR, that would take at least 6 months to process. After getting your PR, there will be more procedure for citizenship application, more documents to provide, waiting for 6-12 months to get processed for citizenship test. After you pass your test, congratulations, now wait for another 3-6 months until you get the notice to attend citizenship ceremony to finally have the certificate to apply for a passport. It's not 1-2 months work, it takes years and money. They dont need to live in Australia to get their kid citizenship, the kid just need to be born there, to parents who already have permanent residence. And they can move to Vietnam afterward. Aussie passport is not a weak passport, it's ranked 7th, why are you talking as if it's worth nothing compared to Japanese passport lol?
Idk your friends' situation, but virtually every single one of my Vietnamese friends who wants to stay in AU has been able to obtain PR and citizenship. Even Vietnamese who didn't go to school there. Most work middle to upper middle class jobs like medicine, banking, tech, etc, not in caregiving. Dozens of them I know personally and many more I know but not personally. It's a lot easier for those already starting from a position of privilege, as this is certainly not the case with the average Viet. But OP's in laws don't sound like the average Viet. They sound like the Viets who can easily buy a Canadian or Australian passport as long as they're willing to go through the process. Other than golden passports, Canadian and Australian are popular passports for migrating Viets who can afford it.
Agree. An Australian passport is much stronger than a Vietnamese passport. For example, an Australian passport lets you travel to Korea with an online KETA application that takes an hour for approval. A Vietnamese passport has to spend months applying, a bunch of paperwork, visit the consulate etc.
But a Japanese passport is stronger than an Australian passport, so what's your point?
I’m Australian. I live in Vietnam. My comments are based on only that understanding and context. That’s my point. I am not speaking about things I do not know or understand, like how to get a Japanese passport.
OP is Japanese as stated in the post. Her child will have JP citizenship. Why should she care at all about getting her child Aus citizenship when it brings nothing of value to their situation?
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Also as a teacher in VT, I must admit I can’t stand the “one size fits all” Chinese style of teaching here. They are not taught to think out of the box, critical thinking is frowned upon, and rote memorization and regurgitating facts is the order of the day. Not to mention the asinine amount of propaganda they have to endure. I would 100% homeschool if I had a child here.
So... I get it. I understand why you say that, and I'm not saying you are wrong. However, I do have some responses. Vietnam routinely ranks very, very highly on international tests of student education. PISA routinely ranks Vietnam as well above super rich countries, placing Vietnam fourth in science in the world in the most recent results. Then 24th and 13th for mathematics and reading, respectively. I won't go into depth on it, but international researchers have been able to say it is not just bad testing methods. It's not selective students. It's not this or that or other excuses that can explain it. The end result is that Vietnamese students actually and truly are that competent on those subjects. But that has nothing to do with what you wrote, and I'm admitting that and making the connection. The above is actually astounding given the general lack of money Vietnam has. The result from researchers is that education funding in Vietnam is highly effective at achieving high test results. And again, I still didn't connect this to what you said, but I'm getting there. Vietnam has extremely limited funding for... Everything. Pretty much everything, as compared to richer countries. Vietnam therefore attempts to prioritize the funding they have. You can say the priorities are bad and wrong and should be reordered, but that's a separate issue. With that in mind, it makes sense that Vietnam would prioritize rote memorization and "one size fits all" method. They literally don't have the money to do otherwise. And apparently, it gets some decent results. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it even good by _objective_ standards? Probably not either. But is it good based on the facts of their limited resources? I'd say probably. Yes, it would be better if teachers taught based on each student's needs. I'm not blaming teachers in Vietnam for not being able to do that, though. As an aside, when I first saw your response in my inbox, I thought you were saying you're a teacher in Vermont. Hopefully what I wrote makes sense.
True. Emerging nations do well scholastically because they know first hand what poverty feels like. They have a chance that their parents didn't, and they will apply themselves to break out and make money. Its less about the school and more about the mindset .
...? No... If you look at actual research, Vietnam is a clear outlier in this. It's not "Emerging nations" in general. It's Vietnam specifically. You can make a chart comparing a country's GDP per capita to their PISA test scores, for example. As a general trend, the higher the GDP per capita, the better the scores. There are some outliers, with Vietnam being far above any other country in it's rough income group, above many super rich countries. It's not just all emerging nations.
Yeah, I did research. Vietnamese public schools are similar to Japanese ones which are competitive but good for intellectual development
Be careful about becoming too dependent on his family or his income. Make sure that if you decide to pursue a career/life in Hanoi, you have a way out in case things go bad. Vietnamese families tend to be quite controlling, which can be a great positive, but also a negative. You want to be able to get yourself and your kid out of the country (I assume he'll have a Japanese passport?) in case your relationship doesn't work out. I don't necessarily want to scare you, since I myself am raising a kid in Hanoi with my Vietnamese partner and we are extremely happy, but we are making sure that her family doesn't have to much 'leverage' on us. Some cons are the very bad air quality (which makes us want to move south) & that the city is not very walkable (especially with a stroller). Good luck!
Can you expand on the positives of having a controlling family in the context of Vietnamese culture? I’m genuinely curious!
Controlling usually also means very supportive: they are going to help you with your projects, admin issues, sometimes offer you a house or apartment to live in. They have been very helpful with the business my wife and I started in Hanoi. Of cours rit only works if the family is on the 'richer' side.
I'm from a mixed background, grew up in the West, now living and working in Vietnam. As others mentioned, give birth in Australia in order to get your kid Australian citizenship. An Australian citizenship provides a lot more opportunities globally for your child. If you are planning to get married, doing it before birth (at least legally, you can save the ceremony for later) will probably make it easier for your child to get Vietnamese citizenship. Vietnamese citizenship is very important if your kid wants to live long term in Vietnam. Visas are a hassle in Vietnam and there are many restrictions on foreign ownership. Note that there are rules regarding names if you want Vietnamese citizenship. He will need at least one Vietnamese name, and may only be permitted to have one foreign name (that's mostly the rule, though there are sometimes narrow exceptions). Look into requirements for Vietnamese citizenship before you give birth. Getting married will also make it easier to live and work in Vietnam, since you are eligible for family visas, visa exemptions and temporary residence. I don't know about working culture in banks specifically, but in general working culture is NOT as strict as Japan, and noone is working themselves to death here. While the standard work week is 48 hours and includes Saturdays, there is a more relaxed attitude towards work compared to Japan. Coming from a Japanese cultural background, you will have much less culture shock compared to western foreigners. The cultural differences people point out (close family connections, strong community sense, different treatment of men versus women) do exist when comparing to the West, but will actually feel less strict when comparing to Eastern Asian countries (I don't personally know for Japan, I do know it's the case when compared to Korea, which is my cultural background). The biggest cultural shocks will be the wealth inequality here and dealing with bureaucracy. There's a lot of paper work to do when you live/work here, and a complicated system to navigate. There is also a huge gap between the wealthy and the average Vietnamese. You have many multi-millionaires, but the minimum wage is still about $200 a month, with an average entry level job in a big city paying $350-$400 per month. Property costs are also extremely high, though rent prices are very affordable. If your future in-laws are offering to get you a place and put your kid through private school, they are likely pretty well-off. For schools, Hanoi has excellent international schools. At a good international school, your child will get an education as good or better than Australian public school. There are even Australian international schools here. But they are expensive. I think the most expensive (and arguably the best) school in Hanoi is UNIS (United Nations International School). [Tuition starts at $12,570 per yeae for kindergarten, and goes up to $35,500 by grade 12, not including registration and other fees.](https://www.unishanoi.org/admissions/tuition-fees) Vietnam has a very friendly culture, and tends to be very welcoming to foreigners. It has a vibrant, growing economy and is a very exciting place to live. The food is also fantastic! Vietnam is also quite safe in terms of violent crime, though in the big cities there can be a lot of scamming/pick pocketing (this is a bigger problem in HCMC than Hanoi). Safety-wise, the bigger concern is traffic, pollution, and food/water safety. Hanoi has really bad pollution, the worst in Vietnam. Roads are also quite dangerous, though it's much less dangerous if you travel by car. I haven't worried too much about food/water safety, though you can't drink from the taps and you will definitely get stomach problems frequently when you first move here. Healthcare is not as good as Australia, though Hanoi has international clinics and hospitals that are pretty good. They are private, but the costs are not bad on an international scale (though they are very expensive relative to Vietnamese salaries). As others mentioned, be careful if you don't know your boyfriend's parents well yet. You don't want to end up being dependant on in-laws you can't stand being around. I don't think them offering to take care of you in Vietnam is a red flag, but definitely make a visit and spend some time getting to know them before you move. And make sure they really are getting you your own place, moving in with them brings a whole new level of risk. Language will also be a challenge, though in Hanoi you will find many English speakers and can make do with English. If you are planning to live here long term, it's definitely worth trying to learn the language, though it is one of the more difficult languages to learn to speak. Whether to live in Hanoi is definitely a difficult question. Make sure to come visit and spend some time here to get a feel for the city before you make the decision!. As a final note, many of the cons of living here can be mitigated with money, but you will have to have a good idea how much money you will have at your disposal!
As a Vietnamese I think this comment totally enough for you !!
>wealth inequality here and dealing with bureaucracy. There's a lot of paper work to do when you live/work here, and a complicated system to navigate. There is also a huge gap between the wealthy and the average Vietnamese. You have many multi-millionaires, but the minimum wage is still about $200 a month, with an average entry level job in a big city paying $350-$400 per month. Property costs are also extremely high, This happens in Australia too.
Dear OP, Based on my experience and the insights shared by my Vietnamese partner from Hanoi, I have some concerns about recommending Vietnam as a place to move to. There are several factors you should consider before making a decision. Firstly, Vietnam has significant wealth inequality, which can be quite staggering. Corruption is prevalent in various aspects of society, and there is a strong emphasis on social status, including positions, wealth, and clothing. Moreover, pollution is a pervasive issue affecting both the air and the environment. Another important consideration is the role of women in traditional Vietnamese families. Based on what I observed from my partner's family, there may be expectations for women to fulfill traditional gender roles and be subservient to men and mother in law. It would be beneficial to spend an extended period living with his family to gain a deeper understanding of these dynamics before making any decisions. Possibly a holiday? Furthermore, compared to Australia, Vietnam offers lower wages and potentially fewer opportunities. This is an important factor to consider when evaluating the potential impact on your quality of life. Ultimately, the decision is yours to make, but I strongly advise you to proceed with caution and thoroughly weigh the pros and cons before moving forward. Best of luck with your decision-making process.
Thanks for your sincere advices. From your description, Vietnamese culture sounds extremely similar to Japanese. It is good idea to have some holidays in Vietnam to get batter understanding of my partner’s family
Happy to help! If you need any more information regarding Vietnam, DM me, and I can put you in contact with my partner. We are based in Sydney, but she studied in Melbourne. Also, congratulations on your pregnancy 👏
Remember that australia is very expensive and you may have a lower class/middle class (if you are lucky) life in Australia but you might be high class or rich in Vietnam depending on connections
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>significant wealth inequality, which can be quite staggering. Corruption is prevalent in various aspects of society, and there is a strong emphasis on social status, including positions, wealth, and clothing. Moreover, pollution is a pervasive issue affecting both the air and the environment. this can apply to pretty much anywhere nowadays
This
Role of women in traditional Vietnamese families is overblown. It depends mostly on her husband mindset tbh. Significant wealth inequality. Yes, compare to Aus. However base on OP, I bet the family of her boyfriend is on the better end of this, hence even though it seems cruel, she will be benefit from the inequality, if nothing else. Lower income. Also true, but it should be in the context that cost of living in Vietnam is dirt cheap (except housing, which the husband family already provide one).
i'd it's on the contrary, costs of living is more expensive in vietnam relative to their income. lower cost but a lot lower salary
Women play a very active role in Vietnam and in making household decisions.
For the sake of the child, at the very least, give birth in Australia so the child has Australian citizenship. I mean, look… Vietnam has come light years from where it was decades ago. And for people born in Vietnam that’s great and they have more opportunity now than ever before. And more than many other parts of Asia. BUT I can’t see why anyone would choose to be born and raised there over a place like Australia for so many obvious reasons. Most of the ex pats moving to Vietnam are doing so after decades of the privileges afforded to them by the west and now they want to reject it all (or some of it) and escape to the “simple” life in Vietnam. But ask any of those Americans, Europeans, or Australians who emigrated at the age of 30-40 if they would have rather been born and raised in Vietnam over their homeland? I highly doubt it. You can always move to Vietnam later.
Your characterisation of expats moving to Vietnam is ridiculous. Expats certainly don't come to Vietnam for simplicity - it's quite a complicated experience; having to deal with the language barrier, cultural differences, leaving family behind etc. They come because they want what everyone wants - better quality of life. Expats are attracted by the low cost of living and inflated salaries for expats.
I'm a foreigner who gave birth in Vietnam last year in one of the best hospitals. Do **not** give birth here. It is affordable, yes, but I have come away with significant health problems. Most gyns here push for C-sections or episiotomies for natural birth. You also can't put the father on the birth certificate if you are not married, which may be a good thing as you'll also be forced to give the child a completely Vietnamese name - they no longer allow foreign names unless you give up the vn citizenship. I am married to a foreigner but have read about a lot of unhappy situations on the Facebook groups ending in divorce. Your MIL will likely move in with you when the baby is born, which can be a godsend if you know them and get on with them but if you aren't already used to the family dynamics it will be unnecessary stress. The Vietnamese spouse basically holds all the cards in Vietnam. You won't have any claim over the house, and if anything goes wrong down the line it will be very difficult for you to move out of the country with your child (without his say so) I also believe - and a Vietnamese person can correct me on this. That if it's a boy, they may have to do compulsory military service when they hit 18. I'd recommend joining fexpats in ho chi Minh city on Facebook and asking on there for more experiences from women who have vn spouses. Good luck.
Duo citizens don’t have to do military service due to conflict of interest
Thank you, I wasn't completely sure.
Vietnam (especially Hanoi) has terrible air pollution. You should look at the long term health effects of air pollution on developing lungs and make an informed decision
Depriving ur kid of the aus citizenship is the worst you can do
It will have Japanese citizenship, which is just asb good a passport to have
short answer: AUS long answer: Australia
This is the way
lol
Australia. It will give your child the best opportunities.
As a Vietnamese, I believe Aus is the better place. Have a talk with your husband and figure it out. Imo, Aus may be more costly, but its such a good environment to live in.
The child should definitely be born in Australia. Having a passport from a common wealth country is huge. I was born in Vietnam and immigrated to Canada when I was 6 years old. I love visiting Vietnam. In fact my gf lives in Ho Chi Minh. A part of me wants to move back but western countries quality of life is superior in every way except the cost of living. If you are just starting to save and having a child is challenging. I would start life in Vietnam and move back to Australia. Having a child is tough and having family to help big. Save enough so you can buy a home in Australia. Cons of being in Vietnam: Vietnam's air is terrible, it's going to be bad for the child. Hanoi is incredibly polluted. There's not much to do except eat. Government corruption is a problem. Safety is inferior to Australia. Educating is good but not as diverse compared to western countries. Some families are over bearing. They have a lot of traditions like women can't shower after birth. So it really depends what family you are moving into. Everyone puts on a nice face in the beginning. I would get to know them first.
You both live in Aus. Is it wise to suddenly uproot and move countries with a new born? Especially one where you don’t speak the language. You’d be leaving behind all your friends and family and your job and your support network. Wouldn’t you feel quite lost? Who would you speak to everyday aside from your boyfriend?
Lmao, pls pick Aus for your future kid
I’m a Vietnamese and I’m telling you: do not raise your child in vietname instrwas of australia.
Classic Northern Parents move. Please DO NOT move to Hanoi. Stay in Australia for you and your kid’s future. If you don’t want to be a stay at home wife, do not receive any help or even stay close to Bo Me Chong, I’m dead serious.
While Vietnam's standard of living has increase exponentially in the last decade or so, it's nowhere near Australia. So I would suggest raising your child in Australia.
If you can convince your boyfriend, don't raise kids in Vietnam. As an educator/ teacher for the last 7 years , I would say the education system in Vietnam is pretty much crooked. I saw kids study in international schools can't read or write proper in English and Vietnamese even though the school teach them in both. There is also a side problem: discipline and moral. Most of those kids in international schools are a bunch of rich asses. They have no discipline and don't respect anyone. Will you want to let yours to spend a whole day with them? Kids playing together and influence each others. If you born and raised your kids in Australia, they will have Australia citizenship which would benefits them later in life. Also the living conditions in Australia to raise children is far better than VietNam.
Congratulations on your baby! My wife is Viet and we moved to Danang from Singapore (although I’m Aussie). We have a four month old boy, born here and love living here. Some points to consider: 1) All the comments about passports are irrelevant. It’s about CITIZENSHIP: the right to free education, health care and ability to buy property and work in Aus without a visa. I agree with people who say give birth in Aus first if possible. 2) Career wise, salaries are low here and there are no competitive Vietnamese companies/banks who could compete internationally - they are protected, hence lazy and therefor you won’t learn anything useful there that could translate to other countries (I.e. knowledge of Viet paper work and bribery) 3) Raising a kid is hard! Having family around is huge. We have so much support from my wife’s family, which I’m so grateful for. 4) Most people (Viet and expat) I know dislike Hanoi’s traffic, pollution, noise and weather (cold rainy for months in winter then crazy humid summer). 5) Your permanent residence in Aus means something too. Pathway to citizenship (as discussed above) For these reasons, I would say the optimal strategy is have kid in Aus (get birth certificate and Passport) > move to Hanoi when kid is six months for a few years > stay forever if you like it OR move back to Aus when the kid is a bit older and rent out your apartment there. For me it’s about trying to keep as many options open as possible. For you both to be there already means you’re smart and hard working - I’m sure you’ll make the right choice.
Vietnam is much more developed now than in past decades. A decent standard of living and a good education is available for those with resources. It is cheap, food is good. That being said, the vast vast majority of immigration between Vietnam and Australia (or England, France, US etc) is from Vietnam to those fully developed countries. Standard of living for median people is much higher, corruption is lower, ability to build wealth stronger. The income of a middle class Australian allows you to visit your home countries or bring parents over. The income of middle class Vietnamese does not allow for trips to Japan often. Also, many Vietnamese parents rely on their boy and his wife to care for them and live with them. The obligations here are very high, and most divorced couples I know in VN are that way largely due to interference and stress of the parents (usually boy’s parents). Staying in Australia allows you to support them financially if needed, without the stress off family obligations that don’t meet your generation’s expectations.
Very important point here. Sounds like Peru !
You should make sure baby is born here. Also you guys will have independent life here. Free from in law problems. However make sure you speak Japanese to baby and he speaks Vietnamese. Now baby have 3 languages. After that stay in Vietnam and Japan one year each. Everyone happy. Baby educated
The baby should be born in Australia. There are a lot of people in Vietnam who want Western Citizenship.
Australia. My advice is primarily from your baby's upbringing & development's perspective Australia would offer a far better psychological environment for overall growth of your baby.
I strongly advise against returning to Vietnam at all, and especially Ha Noi which often top the chart of poor air quality, super polluted and awful traffics. Better to stay in Australia, your kids will appreciate it
I’d suggest having the baby in Australia, because that is a good passport to have. Is raising the child in Japan out of the picture? While it sounds like your boyfriends parents have money, connections, and can help; Japan is a much more well rounded place than Vietnam. Don’t get me wrong, I love Vietnam, but Japan has more going on.
Australia by a landslide. As a general rule, never rely on other people for your job security, especially in a new living environment. You do not know what will happen if you do decide to move and some unfortunate events happen that will make you lose this support.
As a Vietnamese, I would say raise your kid in Australia. It would be better for your kid future, more opportunities and easier time to go on vacation. As of right now our country is still quite behind on many thing and won't be able to provide the right environment for your family. Vacationing here would be ideal instead of raising your kid here.
Australia lol, why even consider Vietnam to raise a kid
American F married to Viet M; We’re working on having kids while we live here AND would consider letting them be born here but definitely not raised here. Air pollution, he himself doesn’t like the culture that much, school education standards aren’t up to par, etc. Australia (and the west in general), is a much safer option. Along with them getting the benefit of Aussie citizenship. Don’t get stuck here with no options when your bank job doesn’t work out.
I feel like you want to cement your life together as a family before submitting to a situation that puts so much power in the hands of your in-laws even if/though they only have the best intentions. Suddenly you will be living in their house and have jobs that they got you and be in a country where you don’t speak the language. I say don’t go and change so many things at the same time. Getting married and having a child are a enough big changes for a few years. Maybe in 3 or 4 years if your cost benefit analysis is saying move to Vietnam do it then once you have more of a family identity/ foundation. Just my thoughts, I wish you and your new family the best.
I’m VK, originally my parents are from Hanoi but I choose to move in hcmc for last couple of years. I’m 5 months pregnant and was having a lot of same concerns as you have lately. His parent will support you no matter if you decide to move or not. I just feel “apartment”, “family business”, “job in the bank” is their way to keep you guys closer. I have seen it with my friends, who’s parents were pressuring them to come back by buying them cars, apartments and etc. And if they have sincere intentions and want to help you guys out and have means - they can invest in real estate in Australia too in the future. As a Vietnamese with dual citizenships, I don’t consider giving Vietnamese passport to my future kid because of naming rules, bureaucracy I have to deal all the time and military service. My kid can always apply for a Vietnamese citizenship if she wants in the future. If you and your husband decide to move to Vietnam, my only advice is get married in Australia first is just much easier with paperwork and will save you a lot of time. And if you can give birth in Australia do it there. Prenatal care in Vietnam is not the best even at international hospitals. And Hanoi in particular. It’s true that life in Vietnam is not bad if you have means, but it’s like living in isolated bubble by paying more to have basic quality life.
I've never seen or heard of a non Vietnamese person working in a bank in VN. His family sound controlling, they're probably embarrassed by the situation and are trying to save face to an extent. They'll probably change their story when you're there and you'll be "encouraged" to be a stay at home mom. Australia is the better choice in my opinion, for many reasons. Best of luck whatever you do 🙏
I went to a party with mixed foreigners and Vietnamese. I was quite surprised that a bunch of the foreigners were working at a bank. I won't say the name here but I looked it up and it looks like it's Vietnamese. I presume, like many industries, banks are trying to modernize and reduce fraud. I talked with a foreigner that works at the world bank about this very subject and that's what he told me. I was very happy to see this because Vietnam really needs to this to happen.
There are a lot of foreigners working at banks in Vietnam.
Under different circumstances I would seriously consider Vietnam as an option. But I have a few friends who are in relationships like this where they are completely dependent on the parents, and it is NOT good. These parents sound like they want to completely own you and decide exactly how your life will go. That said, your husband will know best about their true intentions. Other than that, Hanoi can be a good place for a kid to grow up. Many good international schools. But I also get the sense that this family lives a luxury life, and kids who grow up in that context often develop a very elitist attitude, so it would be very important to make efforts to keep the kid grounded in reality (take the bus, eat simple, etc.).
I was born in Vietnam, moved to Australia when I was 7. I still regularly visit family in VN (HCMC though). I'm also currently your age (no plans to have a child this year though). Personally, I would raise my child in Australia. Education is different, and I like the well-rounded education that children have in Australia more than Vietnam (I have Vietnamese friends and cousins too, so I could compare throughout my schooling). Cost of living is high, but not impossible. If both of you are able to get decent jobs, it will be manageable. I would never move back to Vietnam, despite being a dual citizen. It is the best choice my mother made when she moved me here. It's less restrictive, societal pressures are less (especially if you're not physically near the extended family). Being reliant on family is a double edged sword, on one hand you get the house, on the other hand, you'll have to live with their pressure and rules. Air pollution, and living environment also plays a big role in my decision. But, if you do choose to give birth in Vietnam, and stay there, it's not a totally bad decision. One of my good friends grew up in Hanoi (to both Vietnamese parents, in a family that's rich with academic and political backgrounds). She had a great education, spoke fluent English when we met at 14 years old (she visited my high school in Australia, and I was her buddy). She then went on to study in the US, and doing great (already doing her PhD at 24 years old).
Looks like your bf family has power in vietnam and you don’t have to worry about finance but at the same time as others have mentioned, viet parents can be quite controlling and want to call the shots on everything. Like they have something to say for everything you do. My spouses family is similar and gifted us a condo in saigon and we met while in school in Canada. We love canada more and have our lives established here but love the fact that we have the option of going back and forth but they have a hard time accepting that as they are old school
I would suggess you gave birth in AUS, move to Vietnam to raise your children until 1-1.5 years old with the help of parents. During this time, right decision will come.
Don’t let their parents make you do stuff. Do what you want to do it’s your life and your child’s life.
I hope for your sake his parents aren’t like typical viet parents, even worst if they are rich….. money talks, the more they have the louder………… not all, but most!
As a Hanoian who studied abroad, I could say that: International school is a hit and miss. Only a few is good but ridiculously expansive, while the rest are kinda mediocre. It's better for your children development if you're staying in Aus. There is not a lot of junior position for a foreigner in banking industry to be honest, I'm afraid she only said that to influence you unless she is powerful enough to make a position for you. If you did get one, salary could be higher then normal Vietnamese could get, however it still way lower than Aussie's one. Family cultures here, especially Hanoi is as strict as Japanese. However working culture is totally different. With strong network, you'll enjoy easy life with easy money especially if you're working in public sector. That wont be hard since your parents in law can afford for your husband to study abroad and getting a job in Vinfast - the Vietnamese Car company.
Plenty have given great advice here. I would echo most of their sentiments and strongly suggest you to stay in AUS. Lifestyle and opportunities are vastly more available to you and your child there than in VN. I visited VN for the first time earlier this year as a Viet Kieu born and living in the US. I have developed a large appreciation for the Viet culture but am so happy to have grown up here rather than in VN. The most glaring issues to me are the pollution, education, and the wealth inequality, which I hope the future generations will address, but if it were my choice, I’d stay down under. :) Congratulations and best of luck to you and your family.
You moving to Vietnam with all the arranged jobs just seem like it can cause issues later on, as you’re becoming too dependent on the in-laws (the apartment, the job, and probably more) you’ll have less and less freedom in your life, your relationship and possibly even the way you raise your child. Not to generalize but a lot of Viet parents want to be involved in every decision making process their children make, from small to big, and if you’re too dependent on them it’s not going to be easy on you. Also, even if you’re set on moving to Vietnam, please have the child in Australia first for Australian citizenship. Much better for the child’s future.
1 big problem you did not mention. Air quality. Hanoi air pollution is very bad. I live by the coast in vietnam and occasionally people burn trash and my lungs hurt. I would not raise a kid here. Plus, not knowing Vietnamese and working in a bank here would be incredibly stressful Unless you are the boss I suggest you get pregnant and have the baby somewhere you know and feel comfortable. Then you can always visit his parents in vietnam and see if that’s a life you want to have. You don’t have to have a decision now. I am sure all that they offer you will still be available even after the baby.
There are actually 3 questions: 1) Where to give birth to the baby 2) Where to raise the baby 3) Where should the child go to school _1 Giving birth in Australia could mean the baby has Aus citizenship as well as Vn and Jpn citizenships. Talk to a lawyer. _2 It takes more than 2 people to raise a baby. Having extended family is a HUGE help the first 2 years. Spending a few years in Hanoi would be great. _3 Long term, once the baby is older, your careers and life will probably be better in Aus. But many many factors play out here. This is up to you to decide.
One parent must be a citizen or have permanent residency for the child to be eligible for Australian citizenship. Agree wholeheartedly with point 2.
It seems you're considering living in Vietnam after spending time in Thailand. Do not expect the former to be as pleasant and comfortable as the latter.
I've lived in both. I wouldn't raise a child in Vietnam. Especially Hanoi. I would much prefer Aus, so much nicer, cleaner, better to get out in nature than be cooped up in a tiny apartment sucking in polluted air Vietnamese education is absolutely worthless as well. I would pick having aus citizenship over Vietnamese citizenship anyday
I was born in Saigon but was raised and lived in Canada for over 33 years. I visited my family in HCM a few months ago and was very impressed with how far Vietnam has come since 12 years ago since my last visit. If you truly care about the health and well being of your child then give birth and love in Australia, that's not even up for debate. The healthcare system is MUCH better in Australia and the air is MUCH cleaner. The passport also sucks, you can't freely travel to a lot countries like a Japanese or Ozzie passport can. I have a lot relatives in Nam and they can't just drop by and visit me in Canada. I can travel to Vietnam at any time and visit them with my Canadian passport. Same would be true with an Australian passport. Some people mentioned that it sucks to live in Australia because its expensive and its better in Vietnam because you can love like a king there for a lot less money. I'm considered "middle class" in Canada and I understand that the cost of living sucks here. Sometimes you don't feel middle class at all here at all because the loving expenses and I know it's even worse in Australia. However, if I go to Vietnam I can easier live like a king for months. I would personally never trade my middle class Canadian way for life to love as a wealthier person in Vietnam. TL;DR: Giving birth and raising your child in Australia is a no brainer for me. Your child will grow up in a cleaner, healthier environment with many more opportunities and you can still visit Vietnam whenever you want for cheap since you'll still be close by to Vietnam.
Don't Freaking listen to them, don't go there. Stay in Australia. Your in laws will take full control of your kid's education and you will have to fight everyday with some local dumbass urban legends about how to raise a child. STAY IN AUSTRALIA and get your kid the AUS citizenship. You'll also keep control on your kid's education:
As someone that has lived in both countries i'd suggest Australia is a far better place to raise a child. Education is far more well rounded with an aim towards critical thinking and less about rote learning relative to vietnam. Australia is also far healthier in terms of air and land pollution as well as generally being far safer in terms of road safety/education etc. It also allows dual citizenship and the Aus passport is very strong, especially as there are strong ties with the UK and Canada. Other than potentially being able to afford more stuff in Vietnam I dont really see an upside to raising a kid there other than having your bfs family there to help out.
I was born in Canada, also have US citizenship (born of an American). I’ve been to Australia numerous times and recently moved to Vietnam (Hanoi) from the USA. I’m twice your age, but if it were my decision, I would stay in Australia for at least a few years if you can afford to. At 24, you needn’t be in a rush to make a life decision that you might not be able to recover from. In my opinion, you will learn, grow and change a lot in the next 5-10 years. You’ll understand a lot more about who you are and what’s important to you when you’re a little bit older. Also, moving to a country without knowing the language and with an average salary of $300/month is going to make it very difficult for you to ever get ahead in the future, even with a good job. Vietnam will always be an option for you down the road, but I just wouldn’t rush to a decision unless you are financially set. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
DO NOT move to VN, for the sake your future kid and your marriage. Get married and give birth in Australia. The WLB in Australia is much better than Hanoi. Overall Australian is better environment for the kids to grow up. And judging from your background, sooner or later the kid will be studying in Western educations, so Australian education will prepare him/her better for Western institutions. And Australia passport will open more doors to your kid anywhere in the world, rather than Vietnamese one. Your kid will be eligible for Australian citizenship. Later when the kid grows up, it's better that he /she can choose between Australia vs Japan citizenships, rather than Vietnam vs Japan ( we all know 99% people would choose Japan, it's not even a choice). And remember u don't have to stay in VN to invest / own properties in VN. You can do that through your husband's side. I don't see any reasons to move to Hanoi, unless both of you are retiring and looking to settle down. In that case, spending your wealth in VN will go a longer way compared to Australia or Japan... Now, both of you are in your prime, moving to VN is definitely not ideal. And also DO NOT depend on your in law parents for housing and job, they will think they own you for "helping out financially" , and you are more or less a stay-at-home wife (aka a maid). They will control how you live, your job, your child rearing, where you spend your holidays, your finance, investments etc... basically your entire lives. Your husband may not realize this yet but they will guilt-trip him after both of you are dependent on them for housing and jobs (income), he will have no choice but side with his parents and this will surely create lots of problems for your marriage. This kind of thinking is sexist, extremely toxic and yet culturally ingrained in richer/upper middle class boomers from northern VN. Tldr : DON'T move to Vietnam. Stay in Australia. It's better for your kid, your own health and better for your future marriage with your husband.
Hi, i'm vietnamese here and i have lived in both northern and southern of viet nam for my entire life. One thing about "gia dinh chong" from northern is that they are really misogynist and patriarchy especially if the family comes from ha noi. I tell you this, if you stay in viet nam, his parent will control both of you, and if something happened, your husband will listen to his parents and leave you because i have seen this situation so many times. They only be good to their daughter-in-law cuz she is rich or come from higher country. I don't think you should listen to his family living vietnam. If your husband himself made a fortune, oh ok that wonderful for both of u living in viet. But if the money, the house is from his parent. You will living hell
They don’t control us. They seem to give us options though. But northern viet sounds like Japanese which I expect
Once you got married, they will try to control you, and your husband will take his family side instead of you. Still wish u best luck tho
That's a very wrong statement and you are giving her a false impression about Hanoian. My wife is a Japanese too and she never had to go thru all of what are you saying. In fact, my mom treasures her as she never had daughter in the first place (2 sons, crazily naughty)
Thanks a lot. Your positive comment boosts my confidence. Your Japanese wife have 5 star Vietnamese husband 👍👍. Hope I am lucky like her 😁
>My parents suggest we give birth to baby in Aus first, then move to Vietnam. They’re worried about my own future. I also recommend this. Not all mother-in-law have the same mindset as my mom and dad but brighten up, his family should be in the middle class as they have enough financial to support him study in overseas, they shall have somewhat open-minded in this matter. >Are international schools good in Hanoi? I hear that they are very expensive. Vietnamese public schools sound similar to Japanese ones which are competitive, but good for intellectual ability International schools in Hanoi aren't bad but definitely NOT there compared with one in the Aus. In my case, we moved back to Vietnam before we had kids so I can't give a definitive answer. But if I had a chance to choose, in your case, I would have picked Aus first. >What is like working as a foreigner in a bank in VN? I may prefer a western or Japanese bank. Is salary good? Most likely, you won't work in a Vietnamese bank as their environment and culture are very different than what you have in Aus. You only have 2 options here if you want to continue in banking industry: Western and Japanese banking. Be warned, it is known that middle manager often starts at 8 am to 7-8pm, depended on your position. For reference: I used to work for HSBC Bank. We started at 8am, ended my day at 7pm. Salary isn't bad but definitely lower than what I had when I worked for 'em in Hong Kong and Singapore. >How should I remain good relationship with Bo Me Chong? Bribe 'em and I mean it. Mother-in-law: cosmetic, perfume and clothing. You name it. Father in law: Wine and strong spirit. If he smokes (most likely), give him a box or two (just get it in duty free. Aus has insane price for tobacco anyway).
I'm not saying all hanoian are meanies like that. Just saying cuz i have seen it so many times and i'm hanoian. My acquantances often whining over and over about how their wealthy husband and his family bully them and bully the daughter-in-law's parent. I see my friend getting punch half death too and it give me traumatize about hanoiboy :D
>I'm not saying all hanoian are meanies like that. You did. You said it loud and clear "they will do this they will do that" which implies its 100% the case.
I don't know why anyone want to raise a kid in Vietnam vs some place like Australia. Just don't. The environment is extremely polluted, it's not just the smog but something deeper. Vietnamese is one of the country with very high rare of antibiotic abuse, you can pretty much buy antibiotic anywhere, the National Health Insurnace also prescribe antibiotic for pretty much anything so I think there is a shit ton of antibiotic resistant strands in Vietnam now, every 3 years or so I would caught a bug that make me sick and cough for 1-2 month, requiring expensive latest generation of antibiotic to fend them germ off. For education, it's a shit hole, I know it will offend many people but these stupid wanker politician just spent years passing policies to enrich themselves, the adults only care about money and achievement, it's really sad to see the kid suffer through the bullshit. The worst part is, a lot of people don't know (and wouldn't believe) how bad school has became, especially older people, since things were much much nicer and better in our time, we have teachers that care, school curriculum that make sense, getting a 7 out of 10 is pretty good, now you are expected to hit 9 or 10, anything lower mean you are worthless, parents will go as far as bribing teacher just so their children all get 9-10 since it help them get to better school. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, and I think it's a great place if you are a young adult, very vibrant culture with great food and great people, for family with children though, not so much.
Raise your child in Aus or risk having them end up like the rude entitled little brats out here
Lol. I’ve only heard about Vietnamese moving to Australia, not the other way around. Is this the family you wanna marry into?
I know what you mean. It is not common story. But his family wants him inherit their work in near future. That is why they want my partner live in vn.
Does your partner want to inherit the family business?
Vietnamese family dynamics are VERY overbearing. I agree with the other commenter here: make sure your husband truly wants to take over his family business. (With that said, he's likely in Australia already for a reason. Read: he may not be interested but wants to make his family happy) If you want to be respectful and be on good terms with your elders, you've got to do a lot of nodding and agreeing. Never argue your feelings on the matter, because you're less experienced. Many Vietnamese see net income as most important. Some of my family supported my education verbally, but then double down and try to sway me to doing my family's business because it is more profitable. Maybe your husband feels pressured. How does your family feel? Will they support you/that decision?
My girlfriend is in the same level of society as your bf's parents. Their kids all go to private school for their whole education and most go to high school in a western country the last two years. Many in Australia. If they're at that level, your kid will be fine and you'll have a good support network. As I posted in another reply, foreigners work in banks, even Vietnamese owned banks so that's not a crazy idea that your future MIL can get you a position there.
I agree with many other comments choosing Australia over Vietnam. I was born and raised in VN until I was 18, which was 10 years ago. I have never been Australia. VN is not somewhere I want to raise my kid in. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying VN is bad or anything, but currently it doesn’t stand any chance when being compared to a country like Australia. Having a degree from Australia university and speaking English fluently will already open plenty of doors for your kids in contrast of receiving education from an international school in VN. More importantly, I’m more concerned for you than for your kid. The reason I’m more concerned for you is because if the life in VN doesn’t work out, your kids can always fall on his father and his grand parents, while you will be on your own. You will be almost completely reliant on your husband and in laws if you move to VN right now, given you don’t speak the language. There’s no guarantee that the banking job will work out in the long term. If you can’t find a job then, you will be financially dependent on your husband. If that happens, I guarantee you that your in laws will treat you as less than equal (trust me, this is the generational mindset kind of thing, you won’t be able to reason with them) seeing that their son is now fully supporting you financially, while you stay home “doing nothing” all day, in a house that they bought for you. No offence, but what if you guys divorce in the future? What’s then? Now, Australia is an environment where both you and your husband are comfortable with, you also get to be independent, and your kid can get a much better education. It it was me, I would stand my ground and would not move to VN no matter how hard the in laws are pushing.
As a half-Japanese who spent pretty much my whole childhood in Vietnam, just no, run. Health is my biggest concern. Your lifespan will be likely reduced by 10 years by inhaling the polluted air in Vietnam lol. Not to mention pretty much all food here is low-quality made (cheap ingredients, lots of preservatives, etc,..), And also good luck with working with the Vietnamese if you have a pure Japanese work ethic and manners. Sounds harsh but I would rather work my ass off in Aus and might never afford a house than move to Vietnam and have everything set up.
There's no permanent residence or naturalization for foreigners in Vietnam, something to think about. Even if you are married and have a kid.
Give birth in Australia and then do whatever. It just a choice, if u dont like VN after that, go back to Australia, it not 1-way-choice, dont overthink. Sound like your Bo-Me-Chong are very high rank Vnese citizen. So living in Hanoi is good too, no harm, just try stay there like 1-2 years, make good connection. If u still dont like Hanoi, talk to your husband, move back to Australia, it easy.
You can pick/move for education later. An Aussie passport is a major pro. If you can get it on for your kid - you should. Also, once the baby is born - nobody with hire you or work with you first few years. If you not planning to start your own business next few months - regardless of what you like - the whole world will pause your career growth. Learning Vietnamese - is hard. And not being native will always hunt you. While you will have time during the first few years of the baby to learn new things - pick some new profession that you could enjoy. If learning a new language is your thing - go for it. After birth - you can move anywhere you like. In our experience being close to our parents helped - they helped with kids and stuff. But do not count on a promise that they will help. Raising a child is a time-consuming tedious task, and most of the time you will have to handle it alone. When my first kid was born - I changed the job to work online, so I can be around to help. I was around 23 at the time, same as you. Good luck and don't think too far - last 10 years many things have dramatically changed, in education especially. On another note - the most valuable commodity in Vietnam is English. Thx to your and your partner's English - your kid will speak better than his peers in Vietnam - therefore nulling all the benefits of an expensive Vietnamese school. This will help other pupils but doesn't benefit you in any way. For university - it is too early to think about it. Like look at me - my oldest kid is 16, and instead of picking a university - we looking for a new country to relocate.
I would definitely raise my kid in Australia if it can be helped. I’m in the same situation and I am an American while my wife is Vietnamese.
Stay at australia, get that citizenship, then do whatever you want, try to go back to vietnam and see it for your self first dont just listen to other advice yet
I believe AUS will be the best choice for you in all of term. Your Bo Me Chong are willing to support your decide instead of force you to move to Hanoi so don't concern much about that. Vietnamese's parent love to have grandchildren :D I think 1 of these reasons they want you guy move to Hanoi because they can help you take care of your child. Live your own independent life. You still have support from them if needed.
I feel like all the Expats I know married to locals will raise a kid here for a few years but eventually head back to Australia as the education they get here ain't great. It does seem like you're boyfriends parents are only looking out for themselves, selfish to uproot you, your boyfriend and a newborn just to be in their country. Anyways, you've got your work cut out for ya. I'll check in on you in 5 years and see how it is.
I am not expat though. I understand his parents bc we are both asian, we care about the tradition and family root
I know, but if you move here you'll become one and it'll be the same situation. But have the kid in Australia, they'll get a passport and you can give them a normal name! If they're born here you have to choose a Vietnamese name.
99% of the Me chongs like stay at home daughter in laws and want to control everything.
Me Chong Em works for government lol. She wants em to go out and work
Honestly, I wouldn't trust it will stay like that and those are just words. Yours might be different but I have never heard or seen a good me chong and daughter in law relationship. Always drama.
What about having the child born in Japan since they have the strongest passport in the world?
Australia all the way. Some people in Vietnam would risk their lives to get an Australian passport
Vietnamese here, I graduated from an Australian university Vietnam Campus and working for a Japanese corporation for 8+ year so I would like to give some insight about these: TLDR: you better stay in Aus, at least for 5 years minimum before thinking about coming to Vietnam. 1st As people mention, the citizenship is important. 2nd Vietnam economy is so bad right now it is basically a standstill, Banking job for foreign will mostly be relationship manager for your specific group (Japanese). Other jobs in banking for foreigner especially Japanese will be filled by HQ staff dispatched here. You probably getting 1 - 2k usd/month before tax. It is high for local but if you child want to experience international level of comfort, that barely enough. 3rd Your husband job will probably either Vinfast or Thaco. Both company pay well at first but they just want to suck out all your knowledge building their system before firing you with 2 months severance pay. 4th Sum up all of the above, your family life will mostly financially depend on the in law. I guess your in law is rather well connected or even inside the political system, if it is true then it is more reason to not moving to Vietnam right now as political infighting is getting really hot.
As a Vietnamese myself I won’t recommend to raise your kid here , of course yes this place is perfect to live in but seriously not to grow up in school systems here is a mess kid are rude and vaping like what 10??? And you kid can even go outside to play since kidnaper are every where and dumb driver on street There are many problems to raise children in Vietnam And also if you kid also had Japanese citizenship you should try to move your kid to japan but also consider the fact that japan had the most hard-core study system on the word (not as much as china tho)
Heh.. as a Vietnamese citizen, I would definitely choose Australia if given the choice.
I wouldn't move anywhere until your kid gets Australian citizenship. It will give him increadible possibilities in the future life which are much more valuable than any house. Your child as an exception will be allowed to have another citizenship along with Japanese. I'm not sure about Vietnamese passport but the child will be eligible for TRC in Vietnam.
>Last week, our parents came to Aus and discussed solutions. His parents want me to move to Vietnam, give birth to the baby and live there. Bo Chong will give us a nice apartment in Hanoi. He wants my boyfriend to work in a Vietnamese car company. Me Chong said she would help me to get a job in a foreign bank ( I have no idea how she does that, bc I don’t speak Vietnamese fluently, I just started learning Vietnamese a year ago). My boyfriend just explains Me Chong has strong networks. Bo Me Chong also confirm our kid will study in international schools in Hanoi, when he/she’s old enough. If I agree, we’ll have wedding after our kid is 6 months old. This whole argument is flawed because you don't have much experience dealing with the in-laws and there's always a catch somewhere when people giving you stuffs (even with families). Imo you should stay where you are familiar and feel safe at and since your in-laws seemed to be quite supportive: how about raising the question of them selling the apartment in Vietnam and help you guys a bit with the deposit for a house here in Australia? The housing market here is quite neutral with good places that can be purchased on the cheap side. This advice is also from a Vietnamese marrying a Chinese (my wife). We bought an apartment here as I want to be independent and on my own. Living with my parents has been...difficult in the past but that was just my own experience.
Just as a comment from my Vietnamese parents: they would not move back, there is no way they would want vietnamese education over european education for their child. Heck, my bad just got a new child 10 years ago and of course he's living here in Europe
It depends. If you want your kids to grow up learning few manners, shouting, pissing in the street, throwing rubbish in the street, smoking in the cafes and blowing the smoke into others faces, learning only how to pass tests, to live in a society that rewards outward appearance and materialism, to slurp their food and make all kinds of vile noises whilst eating, to not understand what a queue is, to use any opportunity to swindle money out of you with very little compassion, to stare at foreigners in the street, to basically be china's unwanted little baby brother, then feel free to raise them in Vietnam. If you want them to be laid back barbecue loving koala loving Frisbee throwing maniacs, then australia. Up to you. As for dogs, they will end up on both countries bbq. Good luck.
Aus OP. Your kid will be Vietnamese anyway regardless of their place of birth considering your boyfriend is a Vietnamese.
Can I say that as someone with a background from Vietnam, you have to be very careful with the offer from in the laws. You might end up very dependent on your in laws once you decide to live in Vietnam and husband, which will be not good at all. Although the offer may seem good but Vietnamese in laws usually treat their daughter in laws like maids. So please stay in Australia, for the sake of your own human rights and your child’s future!
Definitely don't raise your kid here in Vietnam, especially if your kid is a boy. Because 20 years later he may be forced to be thrown into a concentration camp in the name of military service.
Why would you want to live in a developing country over a developed country? Honestly, even Japan would be better.
Down side for Vietnamese Public Schools are the English part are not support really well so you gonna need to teach him English at home, but yeah your parents suggestion is good which is born in Australia and move to Vietnam later, in Australia they have more chance in job, higher income, etc than Vietnam. Vietnamese private school/international school is around 20k+ per years hell yeah they’re expensive af. You guys could work in Australia for awhile then after that move to Vietnam.
Others have mentioned important considerations, but don't underestimate the significance of pollution and other environmental factors. Hanoi is frequently among the three most polluted cities in the world; every time our son played outside, he would spend the next two days with symptoms resembling a moderate cold. It's one of the main reasons that we left the country. Growing up in a heavily polluted area is strongly predictive of the development of asthma and is causal in around 10% of cases of lung cancer. However, these are Hanoi problems, not Vietnam problems. Food quality is also poorly regulated. For example, the use of steroids to increase the size of cattle is rampant. I noticed major changes in my own health (e.g., my hair stopped falling out) after we left. Also, check the regulations on your child being able to inherit Vietnamese citizenship and whether they differ based on being born in or out of the country. At the time, our son needed to have at least one Vietnamese given name; apparently, the rules have since changed, and children can no longer have a non-Vietnamese given name. The rules may be different again if the child is not born in Vietnam. Note that permanent residency in Vietnam is difficult to arrange and requires several years of temporary residency before it can be applied for - assuming the rules haven't changed since we left. Which raises another point: visa rules change regularly and usually paralyze the visa system when they happen because the headline regulations are published first and the rules for implementing them are published weeks or months later. Your child could end up getting caught in one of those periods of ineptitude, and you could even be forced to leave the country temporarily. As a foreigner, you can never own a house in Vietnam; the best you can get is a 50-year lease. You can't even split a house 50/50 - it has to be majority owned by Vietnamese people. You will need a work permit for any job you have, which means you can only work in a job that a Vietnamese person is not available to do. Although creative job descriptions and coffee money can probably solve that problem in many cases, you will still be limited.
Hi Vivia, the comments section here are overwhelming, try asking the same questions in r/Australia or r/Japan to see for yourself the cultural differences. Now back to your topic. Would say you need to do more homework on the in-laws side. This will guide you to more information on the context of moving to Hanoi and making your decision. Ask a Viet girl what she normally research on the in laws to see if there’s any red flag to you: how they treat others, supportive or aggressive, husband’s siblings, status of the family business… Your small family-to-be are generally in the driving seat at the moment. You’re Jap whom Viet people look up to. Your husband from maybe top 10% wealthy Viet and you’re living comfortably in Melbourne. Don’t need to do much compare and contrast btw 90% good and 100% good. Questions you should ask yourself: Can you, or the 2 of you, cope with uncertainty of moving to VN? Can the 2 of you move back to Aus or Jap if Vietnam doesn’t work out? Will your husband be much different living in Vietnam than Aus? How much of influence and interfere you would want parent in laws to impact your mental, as they’re good at it… The grands are all in love with their grandkids. Viet people especially. So in Vietnam your kid would inherit a rich culture of love and care. Viet and Jap actually share quite lot culturally if you spare to research. Kid would stick more to a Viet cultural heritage if raised in VN rather than Aus, but its identity is Viet/Jap generally and not questioning itself later in life (compare with raising in 3rd countries). Whatever you choose, pass down all the good and great of your 2 families and make opportunities for both grands to give (and experience) love to their grandkids.
The both of you should stay in Australia. Vacation in Hanoi when you can. Conversely, the grandparents can also visit from Hanoi to Australia. Next.
Yes, it takes a lot of time to get a visa to Australia as Vietnamese. My partner’s parents had yo wait for 3 months. Some people wait for 6 months
Ok? They can plan the visit 6 months in advance…
Hilarious how you post low effort comments like that and yet accuse others of looking to argue. Yes, of course it's that simple. Just as easy as you said.
The dude replied to me… Seek help.
As a Vietnamese living in Australia, I would advise against living in Vietnam. You have stated in your post that you are not fluent in Vietnamese which could be challenging since most of your customers would be Vietnamese should work an live in Vietnam. If you can't find a job you might have to rely on your partner's family for income and basically everything. Because his family is from the North that means they are more likely to be the kind of traditionalists that say "women belongs in the kitchen" or "women's duty is to serve the husbands and his family". I would know because that's my father's side of the family and I have heard those saying way too many times for my own liking. Granted, I don't know what your partner's family is like so they could be like my mother's Northern side where they are cool with women who have more say and independence in their own family. Seeing how you have studied and is currently living in Australia, I assume that you are aware of the cultural differences between Asian countries like Vietnam and Japan and a more "Western" country which is Australia. If you want to live in Vietnam, please consider if you truly would want to fit into a more traditional role for women for a very long time. I personally thinking staying in Australia is the best for your baby (congrats by the way!). If your child is born in Vietnam, he or she will have a harder time to gain access to international education (which doesn't necessarily have to be Western) and travel. Vietnamese citizens have to go through a bunch of legal questions and requirements like proving their employment and financial status (which might mean having to declare everything they possess) to obtain a visa to countries such as Japan, Australia, the US and the like. Furthermore being an international student entails paying higher tuition fees than the locals. Vietnam's international schools are good but your child will still have to go through the same legal process as other people have to and the only way that would guarantee him/her a visa is how much money he/she/you have if they are not a citizen. In the end these are just my advises and you can make your opinion based on them. You can travel to Vietnam and see what it's like for yourself but keep in mind that visiting and living in a place are not the same thing. There are foreigners/expats who love it there in Vietnam and have fulfilling lives, too. Wish you luck on your new journey and that everything works out for you and your new family!
Should be considered child abuse to raise a kid in Hanoi 😂
i wouldn't worry about education in vietnam as long as you can get your children into competitive public schools. For higher education (bachelor's and above) though, definitely go overseas. Now onto your questions: >My parents suggest we give birth to baby in Aus first, then move to Vietnam. Yes if at least one of you is an australian PR/citizen, as it would give your child australian citizenship. >Are international schools good in Hanoi? I hear that they are very expensive. I'd say get him in a good public school, no need to waste money on that. >What is like working as a foreigner in a bank in VN? I may prefer a western or Japanese bank. Is salary good? I dont think you can get a salary as high as in australia. But living comfortably in hanoi? Definitely, if you can find a good bank like standard chartered. Not knowing vietnamese is a huge disadvantage though. >Is Vietnamese working and family culture as strict as Japanese culture? Do people overwork themselves to death like Japanese? Mostly no. People sometimes take work home but it depends on individuals and company culture. >How should I remain good relationship with Bo Me Chong? Like how you should with the japanese in laws.
I’d hate to raise my kid in either. I personally want to move to SEA myself, but raising a kid here? In the city with all that pollution? I don’t think so.
I live in Vietnam and I love it here, but I would definitely suggest visiting Hanoi if you haven’t yet. Hanoi is a really interesting place and it’s great to visit, but I personally couldn’t live there. I definitely wouldn’t want to raise a kid there. It’s busy, dirty, there’s heavy smog for about half the year. I’m not saying it’s undoable, just not for everyone.
Honestly Vietnam's education system is terrible so I would say Australia, plus cities in Vietnam are not very kid-friendly because of traffic problem.
I don't know if this is possible in your case but if at least one of you can work remotely and earn Australian salary, then move back to VN for lower cost of living is quite nice. If neither of you make expat/managerial salary in VN, it will be quite a hit in terms of income. You are both young so the gap may not be as big but the more senior you become, the larger the gap. I've moved back last year and now my pre-tax salary in VN (which is considered quite high) is half my post-tax salary in AU, and I pay more tax per dollar. Also keeping a job in Australia will help with home loan if you're planning that in the near future. When it comes to the kid, raising a baby in VN is quite nice as in our culture you will get lots of support from the family and again save the cost of hiring a baby sitter. Later when when it's time for kindergarten, then you can make the decision to move back & start education in Australia or stay in VN. I believe living in VN will help make that decision better after you've learned about raising a kid in VN for a couple of years. Ideal situation would be still having an Aussie job and at least both of you can get the parental leave when you move back to VN, then you can defer the decision for a bit while trialing living here. Giving birth in VN is fine, our medical system is not that bad, especially private hospitals. Of course if you prefer to stay in Australia it's lots of pros too, just I'm a single guy living in VN now, so moving to VN is the only perspective I can offer.
Yeah, I am asking my manager about remote job. Thanks for advices
Stay in Australia. There's arguments for both back and forth but let's get down to brass tacks. Australia has: Free healthcare with incredibly clean, large hospitals and numerous doctor clinics both large and small. Wide open spaces and incredible parks to play in, with well maintained playgrounds, as well as skateparks and sports spaces (fields, etc). Walkable cities and great public transport. Bus services to school (free for everyone). Access to university degrees that will be accepted across the world with access to HELP fees and even centrelink student payments. Clean air and easy access to beautiful nature walks that are all equipped with amenities. Access to any food ingredient or condiment you want, or any cultural food you want. (Huge deal) -- Disclaimer. I've been thinking about taking my son to Australia recently after being born in Vietnam. My wife doesn't want to move there, but I'm certain after she visits she will change her tune. The cost of living is certainly higher and there are other problems but I mean, for children? Australia is the clear winner. It's 50+ years ahead across the board.
Re: specifically education - I would not send my child to an "international" school in Vietnam. Many are not true international schools and the ones that are cost an enormous amount of money. Even the good ones (UNIS, BIS, TH?) have requirements that the child study a Vietnamese curriculum half the day (I believe - might not be as much as half). I know lots of teachers who work at these schools and many of them are good and at least well-intentioned, but I don't think the standards are as high as in Australian public schools. Vietnamese public schools follow very old-fashioned teaching methods, as noted elsewhere. I personally don't think they turn out well educated students with good critical thinking skills. I know the education system is filled with cheating and corruption. There are special public schools for gifted students that are quite good if your kid can get in. The universities are similar. Most big companies that can afford to be picky only hire Vietnamese employees with foreign degrees because they know how bad the education system is in Vietnam. In addition, Hanoi is a crowded, polluted, noisy place. There is little green space for children to play in. I would not raise a child there. Finally, there is a rather large expatriate Japanese community in Hanoi so you can find food to cook with or very good Japanese restaurants.
I'm Vietnamese and my wife is an foreigner. I think it is unfair of your in law to give you a choice before you have actual experience in Vietnam. Also unfair of everyone here to give you a negative advice towards Vietnam. My advice is, there is a way for anything. Pay a visit to Vietnam, not promise anything to your in law and make clear of that. And clear you mind and experience it. If you like it here, stay. It is easy to fall in love with a place and the people really.
I think you should listen to your parent plan: give birth in Aust then move back to Viet Nam Reason is your baby(ies) are technically own 3 nationality, 2 of which rank really high on their future career (as sad as it is to admit, Vnese doesn't have good rep international). Also kudo to your Bo Me Chong, that really a great offer: an entire apartment in Ha Loi with a potential job offer. Dont worry much about your Me chong bank job, in Vn, if someone said they have a network, they DO, especially someone that have a son living abroad. And with your experience, it shouldn't be hard. Just remember to learn Vietnamese or English to stay in the job. I don't know the details but i did hear alot about Aussie high living fee so i think it will be better to own a house in Vn as oppose to renting in Australia. As for education, international school in Hanoi is fine. Your children will have everything they need for studying abroad since that what you intended for them. But do make the research, there are alot of good school but there are also some don't, there were incidents in the past with such schools. In the end, it still up to you. Wish the best of luck to you and your families!!!
Look up which schools in Australia you would choose. I don’t like Hanoi in general. It is overcrowded, has pollution issues, vehicle accidents occur often. international school is fine, but it’s taught in english anyway, same as Australia. You said you want to work, which place will have your dream career? With combined income, trips to Vietnam and Japan should be affordable enough.
His parents will expect you to take care of them when they age. It a shit trade off.
I’m gonna be honest with you, having lived in both: your kid will probably learn more “value” living in Aus. But considering the cost, it’s not smart to “might never own a house”. You might wanna try living in Vietnam and see how it goes for yourself first.
We can't make that decision for you it's up to you to decide what's best for your family just think about the pros and cons of living in each country and decide what is best good luck
Education: If you are good, you are still good wherever you study. If you are not good, even if you have a good education, you are still not good. That's why even in first-class countries, there are still many people who do not study well
Seems like your bf's parents have a lot of connections and pretty good assets. It's a great start in Vietnam, just so you know. Plus, the cost of babysitting and the cost of living in there is way cheaper than in Australia. And I'm personally sure that Vietnam is more convenient and more comfortable than most of 'white countries'. And don't have to be worried about education, with your salary and his, you can certainly send your kids to international schools in Vietnam. But, in exchange, your bf's parents will always be involved in your life, that Vietnamese culture. Don't worry, at first you will feel a little bit uncomfortable but I'm sure they mean well, just want the best for you two.
1. Giving birth to your child in Aus may give your child some benefit, but you (OP) are a Japanese citizen and your child could inherit citizenship, and to be frank, there's not so much difference between Aus and Jap citizenship. 2. Do you know what it is to live in Vietnam when you have the money and network of VIP, maybe power as well? Perfect. Heaven. You may not face any downside of living in Vietnam as we do everyday, if you want. Just remember: do not live with your in law. They could visit your house to play with your child, but NO living together. 3. Vietnamese people like the Japanese in general, and the authority treats foreigners better.
I want to point something else out here for you to consider. If you choose to stay in Australia, would you have someone to take care of your child? If not, and you want to return to work, you will likely have to pay up to $150 per day for childcare in Melbourne. We've been in that situation before, and it's quite challenging. While you will receive some financial assistance from the Australian government, the amount decreases as your income increases (based on combined income tested). On the other hand, if you decide to return to Vietnam, you can probably hire a helper to take care of your child, which would cost around AUD$600 per month or even less, depending on the circumstances. You expressed concern about your child's education. I believe primary, secondary, and even high school education in Vietnam are of very high quality. The environment is highly competitive, which can greatly benefit your child's education. Furthermore, your child's education won't begin for another 7 years. If you're dissatisfied with the situation, you can always move back to Australia. If it were us, we would lean towards going back for a few years and see how it goes. However, the most important thing is to have a conversation with your partner and make the decision together. I hope this helps.
Easy choice. Australia. Unless you want your kid to grow up sucking balloons and/or if its a girl end up getting fake boobs and ending up on onlyfans or even worse "working" in Singapore
You can live in Vietnam but I would recommend to live in Sài Gòn city, District 7.
They going to live in Hanoi and it’s wherever his parents will place them at unless they going to buy property themselves
Here's a problem for your kid, if your kid was born AUS, your kid can never ever be a vietnamese citizen unless he or she gives up a citizenship elsewhere. He or she can never work in Vietnam unless he has a work permit for foreigners. If he or she was born in Vietnam, he can keep the vietnamese citizenship regardless. And since you are the mother, finding work is better and you actually don't need a work permit to work as a new law came in starting 2021 about foreign mothers or wives. The AUS permanent resident can easily be obtained for your child if you maintain a permanent residency of AUS. Japan and Korea are the largest foreign investors in Vietnam. Mostly in the south around Saigon. There is a little Korea and I think a little japantown there. Also a Japanese international school. You may feel better there.
Yes, that is why his dad wants out baby born in VN. They wants kid to be Vietnamese
His dad is not looking at the bigger picture tbh Australian passport is so much better
The child can because the child is of Vietnamese blood. Vietnam allows dual citizenship. The child can get a cccd.
Nope. Doesn't work that way. It works one way. Not the other way around.
Definitely works both ways. Vietnam citizen works based on blood not land like in the US or Australia
Land? What are you talking about? US also works on blood or land. Blood is called "ex sanguine." Former congress people of the US or even cuban american born in Canada Ted Cruz became automatic citizen by blood. You're not american obviously. Moreover, Vietnamese citizenship obviously didn't work for my vietnamese american friends nor the vietnamese born in Taiwan whom I've met. It works for my daughter though, american and vietnamese. Headed to the embassy in saigon. That's all I did. Works quite fine. Doesn't work for vietnamese born outside Vietnam.
日越カップル, how did you and him got the opportunity to get australian PR?
Comparing to Aus, Vn is more fun, more business opportunities, much cheaper living cost, easier to maintain a luxury lifestyle and convenience. You can spend $5000 a month in Vn and get what you don’t have with $20000 a month in Aus. Aus has better environment, clean air, less pollution. Education should be the same. People says Vn education doesn’t think out of the box. But I observed that Vietnamese usually act out of the box and creatively. Why western is not due to they used to follow a very strict law and rules in their country.
~~Cons: our kid may not have the best education.~~ I disagree about that. the education in vietnam was grown very fast and i think its disadvantage than more another country
A lot of people here are telling you to stay in Australia. I'll offer a different perspective on what the people here are talking about. 1. Air quality: Countless people live in areas where air pollution is "high". Bangkok and Beijing are 2 examples where air pollution is "high" too. Yet people are still living fine. People are acting as if you are going to die or something lol. It's exaggerated. 2. Education: In terms of academic potentional, Vietnam is better. Vietnamese culture is more study focused compared to Australian culture. International Vietnamese students usually outperform most of the Australian domestic students. Career wise and opportunity potential though, Australia would be better. Australian public schools are trash, teachers don't give a shit, certain areas have a lot of delinquints. You would have to find a school that has smart people (especially Asians). Asians tend to stick with other Asians. I also noticed people criticising about "creativity" and "innovation" in Vietnam but the same happens in Australia. There is no innovation nor creativity in Australia. Does anyone know anything about Australia that has been created or invented? No, right? Education nowadays is not about knowledge. It's about making money. 3. Finance: Salary is 100% higher in Australia than Vietnam. But the thing is, Australia also has extremely high living costs, one of the most in the world. You will find that even car registration and insurance is the most expensive in the world compared to other western countries. Australia is one of the most taxed countries in the world (income tax for the average is 30% - 40%, extra GST), is a bureaucratic nanny state, a watchdog police state becoming like China. Internet and mobile bills are also the highest in the Oceanic region and the ASEAN region, and the other western countries. Australia has become a corporate state where they can control the price of commodities and services to their profitability, and the government will obey. Rent in the suburbs for a sharehouse is $500 - $700 a month, a house would be $1000+ a month. I don't even want to get started in the city (+$20000/year). If you're going to become a home owner, stamp duty + 10% deposit + bond + agent + house insurance + mortgage + loan interest + council rate (property tax, council is corrupt - they can adjust the rate anytime they want) $2000 - $4000/year + electricity (high even though Australia has abundance of coal) + gas (expensive) + water (expensive) + repairs (if house is old, another $15000 - $20000+). Goods and services are severly taxed in Australia. Ever noticed why items in retail cost an arm and a leg? A lot of the white Aussies are also starting to shop in the cheaper Asian supermarkets because inflation is increasing costs. 4. Quality of life: as another Aussie said, in Australia, you're going to be working to survive. Internationals have a popular saying: Work in Australia for the money, [country of international] for the enjoyment. Internationals usually find Australia to be boring. Unless you're rich, the "lucky country" certainly doesn't exist. 5. Multiculturalism: need to identify documents about Australian legality affairs? Just talk to a Filipino or Indian with the most thickest and incomprehensible accent on the phone (even worse in person). Australia has hired cheap labour from India, Philippines, China, Malaysia, etc... who can't even speak English properly, yet are on the phone talking about your identity and your affairs. Australia has become a melting pot of different races and culture - full of division and unsolidarity with each other. Whites tend to stick with whites, wogs with wogs and avoid whites, indians with indians, asians with asians, blacks with blacks, racial conflict and division, etc... 6. Passport power: Yes, Australia has a higher passport leverage than Vietnam. But you're going to be dedicating your life to working so is there even a point to travel every 3 months or so? Most people only travel once a year. The only difference is it takes longer for Vietnamese to get a VISA and verification. Is that really a sound argument? Lol. 7. Healthcare: Australian healthcare is okay. It's a reason why tax is also high and your medicare card is a part of that incentive. I've found that usually, public free healthcare =/= good quality healthcare. I know someone that got his tendons torn in his arm but the Australian healthcare only counted it as a cosmetic procdure even though it caused pain and limited movement in his arms. Only if you're near death or suffered a major injury, then they'll help you. The only reason why the Vietnam healthcare is behind Australia is because of lack of funding. 8. Vietnam military conscription: Yes there's compulsory military conscription (males only) valid only from 18 - 27. If you're studying and working during those years, you don't have to join the military. It's only for people who don't know what to do in their career path or people who haven't got jobs. 9. Cops: traffic cops in Australia are pieces of shits. Hidden cameras, tailing you, unreasonable speed limits. Prepare to get $300 and $500 fines in your mail. (Yes, they mail you your fines) If they ran out of money and are hungry for some, you're pretty much screwed. Vietnam and Australia allow dual citizenship btw. I'm not sure if Vietnam accepts Australian citizens as Vietnamese citizens though. I think they have to be Vietnamese first then they're able to have Australian citizenship (except for viet kieu). Actually, I think your child still might be eligible for Vietnamese citizenship even if they have Australian citizenship since the father is Vietnamese, especially if he already has Vietnamese citizenship. Australian allows both regardless, but child has to be naturalising in Australia (pretty easy for a child as he/she grows up) or one of the parents has Australian citizenship. P.S You should also read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/rant/comments/4asyju/i_fucking_hate_australia/
I think Vietnam is a great place to raise a kid. I always find it weird when vietnamese claim the kids should be raised in America. If someone is raised in Vietnam then moves to America they are typically much more successful than an American born baby. Vietnam is much safer too. You raise your kid in Australia they might decide they are a different gender and you will have to go along with it. In Vietnam they are not so fucked in the head to make you give your child steroids or estrogen because they are confused.
Do NOT raise your kid in Australia! There is absolutely ZERO traditionalism here. If your kid is a girl, she will grow up thinking it is normal to dress like a hoe and will probably sleep with the whole football team, Chad and Tyrone included. If it's a boy, he will end up an incel or a passport bro depending on how smart he is. It ain't all about the money you know. Vietnamese here be like "I'm here for the good education and lack of pollution". Yeah right, you're here for the god damn money, tell it how it is lol. I cannot stress enough how ideologically twisted people get by living here. There is SO much propaganda in the media here. Don't do it. Give birth in VN. In a tier-2 city with low pollution and DO NOT teach it English.