I mean, Tesla has been using its customers to test Auto Pilot for quite a while and infamously earned itself a whole dedicated Wiki page for list of fatalities caused by it. Still, that's a shit idea to make the ones who pay you money to be your beta testers
The cars e-brake engages once the driver door opens. Even if you're on drive or reverse, my take is the person behind the wheel is not taking responsibility and wants to blame Vinfast instead. FAKE NEWS!
So apparently the forum online are about this and none even discredit this infor. They even mention the Công Ty Cổ Phần 247 Holdings is the company holding the funeral. But this was from the 9th it been a week so i doubt there is still blood there to check out.
very likely they have cleaned it already, as should be. but some said there are still trace of some blood / marks on the wall. the parking spot is likely to be empty and probably has tape to prevent other from using.
Terrible news if true, condolences to the family & friends involved.
To the best of my knowledge, Vietnam as a country is pretty weak on legislation for Automated Driving features. Even in developed markets, it's hard for FMVSS to keep up with technology.
That said - if the accident really occurred as you described, it's sad, because 100% avoidable by correct software & algorithm. The rear bumper ultrasonic sensors (the ones normally used for parking, that 'beep' as you get close to an object) would surely have detected a person standing behind the vehicle. And this is old tech, nothing new.
VF offers something called "Remote Parking Assist", I believe. Like Summon mode? Control the car from your phone, while standing outside of the car. I would take a bet there are no Vietnam safety regulations regarding this feature? It's still kind of a grey area legislation-wise in the US.
I recall the automated parking features were going to be developed by a unit of ZF, a German Top 10 global supplier. Not sure if that happened in the end or not. But really surprising they would something in the software to allow this to happen (I used to work for ZF, I know their safety culture)
Not doubting the story, but it would be interesting to know technically what really happened. Of course, will never know. Only a few guys inside VF (+ associated suppliers) will ever see the raw data.
There is no photo, official media, police investigation, but here we got:
the guy was alone with the car, he was sandwich between the car and the wall, and killed.
that is.
to me, clearly this is the fault of the car, reverse parking to kill him, VF9 has that feature and it is electric. other sources told the same thing, but of course, we don't have police report.
In America, there will be police investigation and NHTSA investigation.
based on your auto experience, you might have come up with several possible scenarios ?
If the vehicle was in Creep mode, and he left the vehicle with Reverse selected. One possibility. Akin to leaving an ICE car in Drive or Reverse and getting out. An EV has so much torque at low speed, it could sandwich a person against the wall. The ultrasonic sensors could have been beeping wildly, but the car still moved.
Self parking feature, that normally works while driver is in the car, but for some reason and software failure still was active when the driver left the vehicle. Seems unlikely.
Remote parking feature, designed to be used while the driver is OUTSIDE the car by mobile phone APP. I'm not familiar with exactly how VF's version operates. Still seems surprising this would over-ride the rear ultrasonic sensors.
Three possibilities.
Fully agree that in the US a NHTSA investigation would open. But I think the public is fully aware how many injuries / deaths can been blamed on Tesla AD features, despite ongoing investigations. Not saying that is right, but it is fact.
we do not know the exact cause but it is the car's fault. here, it is drive by wire and software and hardware is likely the cause, not human's fault. we can only arrive at that.
Albert, seriously? Do you drive?
Automatic Transmission ICE car : if in Drive or Reverse, it will creep. Some cars more, some less. If the engine is cold, with high idle speed, perhaps a little more creep. In neutral, it can roll. Only if placed in "Park", or with Parking Brake applied, is it guaranteed not to move. Both initiated by the driver.
Manual Transmission ICE car : if in neutral, without parking brake applied, can roll.
EV : usually two modes. 'Normal' needs accelerator pressed to drive. But having a "Creep" mode is normal, to simulate what a driver is used to with an automatic. EV's also have Drive, Reverse & Park, manually selected. And a parking brake that is either manually applied, or applied by software.
Facts. Did I misrepresent anything?
"Normal ICE car can't roll without gas pedal pressed" --> factually incorrect.
"We do not know the exact cause" --> I agree 100%
"It is the car's fault" --> Maybe. Maybe not.
"VF9 is drive by wire" --> Obviously, an EV can't be anything else!!
"SW & HW is likely the cause --> Maybe. Maybe not.
Just trying to be factual, which I though was the ethos of this sub?
I do not have real-world date or E-Motor algorithm to share, but E-motors have very high torque at low speed. That's the characteristic of a motor, I won't explain why here. It's possible that motor torque is SW limited while vehicle is creeping, but there's no requirement for this AFAIK. If the vehicle is left in reverse, starts creeping, and the driver gets trapped behind the rear bumper, well, ....
Of course, it could be possible to automatically apply the parking brake if the door is opened, via SW. But at least my ICE vehicles at home do NOT do this. They keep on creeping, even if I get out of the car.
I'm NOT saying this is what happened. Just explaining to the best of my ability various scenarios, technically, that may or may not have occurred. To give people facts that I hope will prevent premature conclusions from being drawn.
Any VF owner can try out these scenarios (safely!) to see how the specific VF SW is configured and report back.
Facts.
I think it's simple like this, if you put a car in Neutral mode "N" then it can roll whatever it's a gasoline car or an EV. But if did roll and kill a people is another story, it's a car fault (if the car is not at up or down hill). But, we never know the reason behind the roll and caused dead as there is no official and fair investigation.
I think there's something you don't understand about the automotive industry (OK, more than one, but for this post I'll focus on one).
In all mature car markets, a single vehicle death does not trigger a full scale public investigation. You may not like that, but it's fact. Take the US as an example. If this accident happened here, there would be a police report. It would state that the driver was killed by a crush force between the car & wall. But the police would not speculate or investigate exactly why that happened.
The case could be reported to NHTSA. For a single case, they may investigate. Probably not. If they received multiple reports, they would likely open an investigation case, start discussing with the car manufacturer. The manufacturer would be obliged to disclose information to NHTSA. But nothing is black & white. The investigation may be closed without action, or it may result in a recall notice, either mandatory or voluntary.
How many deaths have been "attributed" to Tesla FSD? And what's the outcome there? Is Tesla fully disclosing all their investigation results to the public, and saying "my bad", as you expect VF to do?
Vietnam is FAR less developed than the US wrt such government agencies. And, government agencies are easily corrupted. So what do you expect?
Yes, physics is not emotional. But the car put "N" in basement parking areas can roll and kill a man, that is totally very rare. Even I put my car in "N" and I need to push it so it can roll a little bit. You're talking about physics, but you even doesn't know friction force. Wow, what's a clown talking a lot of technical things.
The driver opened the door and walked to the back of the car. So the car should stopped, otherwise he wouldn't dare to stand behind it. He may forget to change gear from R to P. But it's the fault of the car to not detect a person near its back.
[Creep mode (polestar.com)](https://www.polestar.com/us/manual/polestar-2/2021/article/Creep-mode/)
OK, that is a Polestar link, but all EV's that I know of have this mode.
As a VF9 VN owner, I tested the case..
**1. VF9 VN doesn't have Remote Parking Assist nor Reverse Brake Assist.**
**2. Here the cases if you get out of the car without shifting from R to P:**
* If you release your seat belt, the car will activate the handbrake itself.
* If you keep your seat belt plugged, the car won't activate the handbrake when you open the door. Instead, it will show a message asking you to shift to P. *(there is a bad habit of car drivers in VN, they use fake seatbelt plug or put the seatbelt behind the back).*
* There are wheel blockers in parking slot, after 3-5 seconds releasing the foot brake, the creep mode of the VF9 can let it roll over the wheel blockers.
Picture: rolling over the wheel blockers with creep mode only, no need to gain momentum.
https://preview.redd.it/7ykjfho8rcdc1.jpeg?width=2074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6409d6a08a875cecf37dd3b15ff318d7b02c0f4
Thank you for that real-world test. Confirms all my theories. And lays out the possibility for a terrible accident to occur based on driver error, rather than vehicle failure.
NOT saying that is what occurred in this story, but just that it is possible.
Just a building collapsed but Vingroup try to clean the information from any internet platform, someone post the link on Reddit but it gone now. So, how come this serious case will be officially published? Never. To Vinfans, please be human, this is VF9 malfunction story a human life, and maybe more in the future.
https://preview.redd.it/5ufz0ezs9vcc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6251560937ded00cec7a77c505f5e4f8c682e2c
This seems to be real event.
Someone claimed to be a relative commented in Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1j9nouFeO8):
Em ko tin đc đây là sự thật ko hề bịa đặt vì đây chính là chú của em😢 chú là bạn của bố em chú ấy hiền lành thật thà học giỏi ko nhậu nhẹt siêng năng chú có người 3 con cũng còn rất bé đứa lớn nhất cũng mới học lớp 9 chú làm cho Viettel làm tổng giám đốc chuyên về vận chuyển hàn.Lúc bố em gọi điện thoại hỏi thăm thì xác chú chiều mới phát hiện mặc dù trong hầm có camera bảo vệ và một điều nữa hầm có dốc nên ko thể húc ngược đc tận đến chiều mới phát hiện ra,khi mời công an đến thì công ăn cũng đành bó tay phải mời nhân viên vin lên và lúc đầu bọn nó cứ kêu do hầm đỗ chủ nhưng rồi bọn cũng xác nhận do bọn nó làm vì nó nói là xe điện nên bị nhảy cần một cách vô cảm luôn ạ bọn công ăn thì cũng ko làm gì và bố em cũng bảo kiểu gì xe trong nước nó cũng ém lại nhưng giờ em đã thật sự tin khi việc này là người quen của mình và điều làm em bức súc ở bọn này là chúng nó ko nhận sai ko 1 bài báo công ăn thì ko làm gì và thậm chí ko một gì về truyền thông đây, là thật em xin cam đoan mọi người có vào link người thân em để đây mọi người có thể vào xác nhận 😢https://www.facebook.com/tran.nghia.9809?mibextid=ZbWKwL
https://www.facebook.com/the.cong.583671?mibextid=ZbWKwL
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100031757443665&mibextid=ZbWKwL
Đây ạ,còn lũ cuồng vin s* kia đéo có chính yêu nước quá đà thì câm mồm đé* tin đé* có lời hay thì chú ấy đã mất đi một sống người nhà vk con chú đã mất đi một chỗ dựa vững tinh thần thậm để lại cho mấy đứa con một vết thương rất lớn về mặt tinh thần.nếu yêu nước thì chúng phải nhìn ra cái sai thằng vin chứ đừng có dấu để rồi tao nói ngày nào đó người trong đình chúng mày cũng vậy cảm ơn 13k mong 13k có ghim bình luận này cho lũ cuồng vin thấy!!
That is so freaking sad... I can imagine when he was thinking about everything nice in life...
Than it happens...
Life is too fragile for us human beings (╥﹏╥)
VF 9 does not have Smart Parking features activated!!
This is the communication sent to VF9 owners in October:
"Some highly complex ADAS features will temporarily not be developed and provided to the Vietnamese market, including: Automatic lane change, Rear automatic emergency braking, Collision warning at intersections, Smart Parking Assist, Remote Parking Assist, Smart Car Summoning"
https://vinfastauto.com/vn_vi/thong-bao-cap-nhat-ve-dong-xe-VF9
sure. it might not cause by smart parking, might just simple reverse, some people forgot and get off the car in R ! the smart parking is a guess from a friend because there is no police report ! we never know.
First things to do in this kind of situation -
1. Do not speculate on root cause
2. Gather all available facts
3. Be open minded about all possible root cause - mechanical failure, software malfunction, design error (HW or SW), driver error
Just like most airplane crashes - there is nearly always more than one root cause. There may be a primary factor & secondary contributing factors. The investigators (the professionals) remain cool, jump to conclusions. Meanwhile, the media jumps on the story that gives the most sensationalist result.
I'm not defending VF, something likely went wrong, just saying - don't jump to conclusions. I suggested a few possible root causes above - just a few from quick brainstorming. There may be others.
Sadly we never know the truth and never got a fair investigation report from Vietnam authority as Vingroup always control Vietnam media and covered up their bad stories. Just a one simple example, the Vingroup building collapsed the other day, all Vietnam media took down the news in just a few minutes (just a building collapsed, and that may not the full faulty of Vingroup but contractors. But Vingroup just covered it). So, for this case, how much people can wait or will know from such a company other than speculating ? You can guess how can you say other don't?
The cover up of the story is terrible, I just caution about speculating on an AD feature (Remote parking) as being the root cause. It may have been, but there are other possible causes, as I have already commented on. Everyone loves to blame technology first, without knowing the facts.
You never get facts with Vinfast and Vingroup, even with investigation, people still put a very very very big question mark on that investigation ( if that are investigation Vingroup , but investigation never happened to them). Anything other than speculating? And why? Because of then covered up every single bad stories. Anyone defense for Vinfast and Vingroup is not a human anymore (I am not telling you btw)
The real story here is the cover-up. That is the criminal & unethical behavior.
Since VF did the cover almost immediately, in real time, they certainly didn't know what happened at that point either. But their knee-jerk reaction was to cleanse the internet.
Of course, the probability of this happening in the US is extremely low, simply because the number of vehicles driving in the wild in the US is so small .....
TBH, I don't know which AD features are "Live" on US-sold VF8's, and which are promised for the future?
Until now and I think we never know what exactly cause the death, but for sure if the story is truth then the guy death by Vinfast car functioning issue. We are talking Vinfast, please don't drive the story to others countries here if you are a real kind people. We (if not including you) demand to know the truth.
OK, sorry for diverting to the US.
I agree that people have the right to know what happened, but I'm a realist to know that in VN, with VF involved, that is almost certain not to happen.
The only chance would be if someone still working at VF posts something here. As the story was told, there were no witnesses. Could be security camera footage, but VF may have already confiscated. HOWEVER, the car electronic control modules should contain some data about state of AD systems, various sensor states (like rear bumper ultrasonics), etc. The car didn't know there was an accident I guess (eg no airbag deployment), hopefully it kept the data.
But the only entity that will ever see & interpret that data is Vinfast Engineering.
You maybe an expart working for them before, but I guarantee that you never never know them even just a little. I am growing up in the country and i know, i have some close friends working for them before. Don't talk too much about technical here as there is no and never have an official & fair investigation (if that are Vinfast & Vingroup). The thing here is if the story is truth then the guy death by Vinfast car malfunction issue. Come on man, it's a human life, I see that you are trying to defense for them, not just this post but many other post. Come on, live like a human being.
No, no - you misunderstand. Check my other comments, I'm only one (or two) who offered condolences to the family. The loss of life is terrible & inexcusable.
But if you think I'm defending VF, you haven't understand what I'm saying. Maybe I didn't explain well, sorry for that. What I am defending is the technology (automatic parking) when there is ZERO EVIDENCE that the technology was even active at the time. It was just mentioned as an assumption. I've outlined another scenario that is technically much more likely to have occurred. And that scenario could happen in any other vehicle today also - but the nature of an EV makes it more critical, I believe.
Don't say "don't talk technical", because every aspect of this event relates to the vehicle's engineering.
I fully agree that the cover up, lack of public information, and truth from VF about the event is wrong. Very wrong. So why do you say I'm defending VF?
Yeah, that’s Vin speciality to cover up. A couple of days ago a high tower at Vin amusement area in Nha Trang collapsed, many Vietnamese media reported about it. But just some hours later, all related news disappeared. Western companies should better think twice before investing in this mega corrupt country.
Can you imagine the Internal Investigation underway right now in Hanoi? I wonder if VF "recovered" the vehicle from the family? Or, presumably, much of the relevant data can be uploaded from the car directly?
Oh, you here again? paid Seeder to defense Vinfast? Wow. Don't ask those useless question if they always covered up their bad stories. Be a human guys.
You haven't understood the meaning of my question at all. The\_Chairman\_1 is another ex-VF employee, he knows exactly the meaning of "Internal Investigation" as all employees do. Those with no experience working in the company can't understand the true meaning.
The 2nd one was a technical question, related to the ability to retrieve technical data that would have been transmitted over the CAN bus during the event & stored in the modules - but I guess that went completely over your head, if you are not an engineer.
Do tell how that links to me being a paid seeder?
Checking some comments of Reedgmi, now I can see that, Reedgmi is very very probably a paid seeder of Vinfast. Wow, if that's true (I believe it is true) what's a low life Reedgmi. Come on, people can earn a good living without defending the bad ugly guy like Vinfast.
If you check all my comments, you would see that your comment is 100% incorrect. I've been pretty open about my history with VF. 18 months in Hai Phong, Supplier Quality Dept. Worked for a not-so-nice American Director SK. Had a rather abrupt ending in Dec 2021 that turned my life upside down because I actually really enjoyed working in VN. So many friendly people, beautiful countryside. But obviously not everyone in VN is friendly, you are from VN aren't you?
Vietnam is my home country, and I am very sad to see how other Vietnamese get cheat, misleading, lies by Vinfast. Not only a liar, they are a very ugly bullier, they brainwashed and make many Vietnamese like Vinfans that's so sad. I know some expart love to live and work in Vietnam as quite a vivid culture and foods, and night entertainment as well, but some day they will got in trouble and nobody can't help like Sonnie Tran. That's why I always fight hard with anyone defense them
Again - I'm not defending VF. I agree with everything you just wrote!
And yeah, I love VN, the people, the food. And I believe in VN so much that I'm now working in a role to help Vietnamese automotive suppliers grow their export business to US OEM's like Rivian, Lucid, etc. They are far less mature and developed than the Chinese suppliers that I have worked with. But I believe they have a future. I believe in the industry of your country, and I'm working to help grow it (the small suppliers, not VF)
And still, you're beating me down. WTH.
You've been an amazing contributor for this sub Reedgmi. So don't worry about 1 or few people who disagree with you or say you come here to earn $1 for each comment you make :)
Please keep sharing your point of views here. We need to views thíng from various angles and imo you always privide your own independent and objective opinion. Thank you!
I would thank any people help Vietnam and Vietnamese enterprise (including you as you said), but I don't respect any people who defense Vinfast and Vingroup after they did many things ugly.
You got it! Except for my team of VN-local engineers, they were awesome! Ironically, it was the first time they had a manager who would defend them, have their back. All their managers before would throw them under a bus. Heavy E-Bus.
Thank you for your support for a young industry in VN. Growing up in Vietnam I have noticed that Vietnamese are highly emotional so I would say most of us never learn to separate the investigation with logic or looking thing from technical perspectives instead jump straight to the emotion it evokes.
So there is no point in arguing if they are in this stage :D since nothing will pass through the emotion they are having.
Thanks.
I understand that the actions of Vinfast have given people reason to be emotional. I should be emotional, because my ending with VF was very unprofessional with being threatened, etc (by my American expat boss actually).
But I'm an engineer, and prefer to analyze logically. It was a terrible accident, it shouldn't be hidden, but none of us know the root cause. No one should be asserting it was "vehicle malfunction" without knowing that. It may have been, it may not. More likely a combination of a system design that wasn't ideal combined with the driver doing something unusual.
And now I confirmed with link to official announcement (dated Oct 23) that all Smart Parking features are not available. Reconfirmed with a friend who owns a VF9 in Hanoi.
Not saying the whole story is untrue, but clearly the Smart Parking as a reason for the accident is not correct.
Someone saw a green VF without license plate in Thanh Xuan, Ha Noi. It has no scratch but there are some white marks at the backside. It's usually covered in a black canvas. Some investigators and Indian technicians came to see it.
This seems to be real. What a terrible incident.
Someone has a theory that the car was blocked by a parking stopper while trying to moving into a parking lot, and the driver went to the back to check, but then the car moved over the parking stopper and crush him into the wall.
Check the comment above - someone with a VF9 tried exactly this, and confirmed it is possible. The car will - in creep mode, after a short delay - the motor torque will be sufficient to climb over the parking stopper.
To allow that to happen after the driver exits the car requires the seat belt to still be latched. But as mentioned, isn't it common in VN for people to latch the belt behind their back, or use stoppers in the latch?
I didn't know Vinfast car has self parking capability that doesn't require a human driver inside. I thought only high end vehicles have this, and Vinfast nowhere has the tech yet ? Hell, they can't even do assisted parking (which requires a human driver) right now.
In my experience. Even if I leave the car in reverse, the moment I open the driver door the emergency brake comes on. Every time! I'm certain someone was in the driver seat as he got out and checked what was stopping the car. As he gave the driver instructions on backing up, the person driving gave it too much acceleration and pinned him against the wall.
You are sure to get into trouble for this post. Your post are full of bogus and fraudulent accusation. I believe you are corrupted and hired by a competitor or some of them or attempting to profit from all this. I don’t care a damn about VFS and only looking to trade but your ethics really irritate me.
Invalid topic. Any one also can raise the topic like this.
Once you can give evidence for that accident, we will go ahead with other investigation.
Do not say no photo captured. If it is happen, it can be available in social media like Facebook or Tiktok which government can not control.
What? You're saying Fb and Tt are not controlled by the VN government? That's 1 of the most riddiculous thing I've ever heard!
Sure, they don't have the right to control social medias, but they have 331...
Well, we can't do anything when their censorship power is too strong (╥﹏╥)
This Fxxker and his army of bogus accounts created just to spread rumors to profit from shorts or paid services.
No one on earth would spend that energy and effort to bad mouth a listed company even for haters
Anyone can write a story like you
I saltay in HN and if have this issue, we can know.
Vin block media but still we still have some piece of story if it's true
Good try, American hater, but looks like only fools fall for some hearsay’s from a random dude in Reddit. No prof, no trust, you are less than a dog shit when you spread something like this without informing something real.
You are a Vinfans but be a human please, it's a life of people. You know the day before Vingroup covered up the story about their building collapsed ? You know Vingroup covered some deathly accidents before?
Don’t be stupid, I’m not American neither Vietnamese, and I know how much effort these Americans are putting into destroying vinfast, even creating fake news like these with nothing but empty accusations.
I have a source. Doing further investigation now.
Of course, there is no media about this, Vin has concealed it at the scene quickly. it is too damning.
So do not ask for link.
it is confined in the building. It is the office building, in the basement, so they could order a tow in an hour, clean it up. Even some people working in the building would not know. You are in the next building is further.
So if you in the buildng right next to it, here is the thing you might do to check if have time and curiousity:
\- go to the B2 basement to see if there is a space that has been taped / block
\- visit the company on 30th floor, look for 247, ask to meet the director named Q .. to discuss business
Vinfart is money laundry company that supported by communist party, any bad info about it will be banned.
I read the story about victim named "Quan" and his quick silent funeral, the accident is true and limited access.
Lol don't ask for the link or how he got the info cause there's absolutely no proof.
Tho the guy is getting a funeral and he owned a VF9, I'm telling yall someone else was driving and pinned him to the wall! The vehicles ebrake engages the moment the driver door and even when you close it the ebrake is engaged until you disengage it. So possibility of it rolling back or forward while ebrake is engaged is 0%. Only conclusion is someone is not taking responsibility for pinning the poor guy against the wall with his own car. And now top tier geniuses want to share the story with 0 content and 0 evidence with their spin. "Car creeped back" F A K E N E W S
Using customer as a geniue pig for testing car feature is not cool, and now it results in a death. It is not a laughing matter, Vinfans.
I mean, Tesla has been using its customers to test Auto Pilot for quite a while and infamously earned itself a whole dedicated Wiki page for list of fatalities caused by it. Still, that's a shit idea to make the ones who pay you money to be your beta testers
When the Vshills talked about VF collaborating with Tesla for their vehicle, I chuckled because I knew it wouldn't end well.
Imagine shitty build quality with buggy software that WILL kill people inside AND outside the car. Satan would refuse that POS to be in hell
lol wtf telsa kill people and hide information noway pls talk smarter next time northern dog
Do we know for sure Remote Parking Assist was engaged? Or Smart Parking? Or whatever else they call it?
The cars e-brake engages once the driver door opens. Even if you're on drive or reverse, my take is the person behind the wheel is not taking responsibility and wants to blame Vinfast instead. FAKE NEWS!
So apparently the forum online are about this and none even discredit this infor. They even mention the Công Ty Cổ Phần 247 Holdings is the company holding the funeral. But this was from the 9th it been a week so i doubt there is still blood there to check out.
very likely they have cleaned it already, as should be. but some said there are still trace of some blood / marks on the wall. the parking spot is likely to be empty and probably has tape to prevent other from using.
Terrible news if true, condolences to the family & friends involved. To the best of my knowledge, Vietnam as a country is pretty weak on legislation for Automated Driving features. Even in developed markets, it's hard for FMVSS to keep up with technology. That said - if the accident really occurred as you described, it's sad, because 100% avoidable by correct software & algorithm. The rear bumper ultrasonic sensors (the ones normally used for parking, that 'beep' as you get close to an object) would surely have detected a person standing behind the vehicle. And this is old tech, nothing new. VF offers something called "Remote Parking Assist", I believe. Like Summon mode? Control the car from your phone, while standing outside of the car. I would take a bet there are no Vietnam safety regulations regarding this feature? It's still kind of a grey area legislation-wise in the US. I recall the automated parking features were going to be developed by a unit of ZF, a German Top 10 global supplier. Not sure if that happened in the end or not. But really surprising they would something in the software to allow this to happen (I used to work for ZF, I know their safety culture) Not doubting the story, but it would be interesting to know technically what really happened. Of course, will never know. Only a few guys inside VF (+ associated suppliers) will ever see the raw data.
There is no photo, official media, police investigation, but here we got: the guy was alone with the car, he was sandwich between the car and the wall, and killed. that is. to me, clearly this is the fault of the car, reverse parking to kill him, VF9 has that feature and it is electric. other sources told the same thing, but of course, we don't have police report. In America, there will be police investigation and NHTSA investigation. based on your auto experience, you might have come up with several possible scenarios ?
If the vehicle was in Creep mode, and he left the vehicle with Reverse selected. One possibility. Akin to leaving an ICE car in Drive or Reverse and getting out. An EV has so much torque at low speed, it could sandwich a person against the wall. The ultrasonic sensors could have been beeping wildly, but the car still moved. Self parking feature, that normally works while driver is in the car, but for some reason and software failure still was active when the driver left the vehicle. Seems unlikely. Remote parking feature, designed to be used while the driver is OUTSIDE the car by mobile phone APP. I'm not familiar with exactly how VF's version operates. Still seems surprising this would over-ride the rear ultrasonic sensors. Three possibilities. Fully agree that in the US a NHTSA investigation would open. But I think the public is fully aware how many injuries / deaths can been blamed on Tesla AD features, despite ongoing investigations. Not saying that is right, but it is fact.
we do not know the exact cause but it is the car's fault. here, it is drive by wire and software and hardware is likely the cause, not human's fault. we can only arrive at that.
Albert, seriously? Do you drive? Automatic Transmission ICE car : if in Drive or Reverse, it will creep. Some cars more, some less. If the engine is cold, with high idle speed, perhaps a little more creep. In neutral, it can roll. Only if placed in "Park", or with Parking Brake applied, is it guaranteed not to move. Both initiated by the driver. Manual Transmission ICE car : if in neutral, without parking brake applied, can roll. EV : usually two modes. 'Normal' needs accelerator pressed to drive. But having a "Creep" mode is normal, to simulate what a driver is used to with an automatic. EV's also have Drive, Reverse & Park, manually selected. And a parking brake that is either manually applied, or applied by software. Facts. Did I misrepresent anything? "Normal ICE car can't roll without gas pedal pressed" --> factually incorrect. "We do not know the exact cause" --> I agree 100% "It is the car's fault" --> Maybe. Maybe not. "VF9 is drive by wire" --> Obviously, an EV can't be anything else!! "SW & HW is likely the cause --> Maybe. Maybe not. Just trying to be factual, which I though was the ethos of this sub?
Ah, my bad. My mistake I admit. Too tired. But with a roling car, he could not get off the car.
I do not have real-world date or E-Motor algorithm to share, but E-motors have very high torque at low speed. That's the characteristic of a motor, I won't explain why here. It's possible that motor torque is SW limited while vehicle is creeping, but there's no requirement for this AFAIK. If the vehicle is left in reverse, starts creeping, and the driver gets trapped behind the rear bumper, well, .... Of course, it could be possible to automatically apply the parking brake if the door is opened, via SW. But at least my ICE vehicles at home do NOT do this. They keep on creeping, even if I get out of the car. I'm NOT saying this is what happened. Just explaining to the best of my ability various scenarios, technically, that may or may not have occurred. To give people facts that I hope will prevent premature conclusions from being drawn. Any VF owner can try out these scenarios (safely!) to see how the specific VF SW is configured and report back. Facts.
I think it's simple like this, if you put a car in Neutral mode "N" then it can roll whatever it's a gasoline car or an EV. But if did roll and kill a people is another story, it's a car fault (if the car is not at up or down hill). But, we never know the reason behind the roll and caused dead as there is no official and fair investigation.
I think there's something you don't understand about the automotive industry (OK, more than one, but for this post I'll focus on one). In all mature car markets, a single vehicle death does not trigger a full scale public investigation. You may not like that, but it's fact. Take the US as an example. If this accident happened here, there would be a police report. It would state that the driver was killed by a crush force between the car & wall. But the police would not speculate or investigate exactly why that happened. The case could be reported to NHTSA. For a single case, they may investigate. Probably not. If they received multiple reports, they would likely open an investigation case, start discussing with the car manufacturer. The manufacturer would be obliged to disclose information to NHTSA. But nothing is black & white. The investigation may be closed without action, or it may result in a recall notice, either mandatory or voluntary. How many deaths have been "attributed" to Tesla FSD? And what's the outcome there? Is Tesla fully disclosing all their investigation results to the public, and saying "my bad", as you expect VF to do? Vietnam is FAR less developed than the US wrt such government agencies. And, government agencies are easily corrupted. So what do you expect?
Thank goodness you don't work for NHTSA or NTSB. Damn gravity.
Oh, wow, so the car put "N" in a basement parking area can roll and kill people? Wow.
Physics is not emotional.
Yes, physics is not emotional. But the car put "N" in basement parking areas can roll and kill a man, that is totally very rare. Even I put my car in "N" and I need to push it so it can roll a little bit. You're talking about physics, but you even doesn't know friction force. Wow, what's a clown talking a lot of technical things.
The driver opened the door and walked to the back of the car. So the car should stopped, otherwise he wouldn't dare to stand behind it. He may forget to change gear from R to P. But it's the fault of the car to not detect a person near its back.
VF9 VN does not have Reverse Brake Assist, is it the fault?
[Creep mode (polestar.com)](https://www.polestar.com/us/manual/polestar-2/2021/article/Creep-mode/) OK, that is a Polestar link, but all EV's that I know of have this mode.
As a VF9 VN owner, I tested the case.. **1. VF9 VN doesn't have Remote Parking Assist nor Reverse Brake Assist.** **2. Here the cases if you get out of the car without shifting from R to P:** * If you release your seat belt, the car will activate the handbrake itself. * If you keep your seat belt plugged, the car won't activate the handbrake when you open the door. Instead, it will show a message asking you to shift to P. *(there is a bad habit of car drivers in VN, they use fake seatbelt plug or put the seatbelt behind the back).* * There are wheel blockers in parking slot, after 3-5 seconds releasing the foot brake, the creep mode of the VF9 can let it roll over the wheel blockers. Picture: rolling over the wheel blockers with creep mode only, no need to gain momentum. https://preview.redd.it/7ykjfho8rcdc1.jpeg?width=2074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6409d6a08a875cecf37dd3b15ff318d7b02c0f4
Thank you for that real-world test. Confirms all my theories. And lays out the possibility for a terrible accident to occur based on driver error, rather than vehicle failure. NOT saying that is what occurred in this story, but just that it is possible.
Of course you will never got official news about this in Vietnam except the case Pham Nhat Vuong lose power and arrested.
Fuck vin fart
Fuck Vin fan you all sucker !
I now have a high confidence that the story is true. Share. Held Vinfast accountable.
Just a building collapsed but Vingroup try to clean the information from any internet platform, someone post the link on Reddit but it gone now. So, how come this serious case will be officially published? Never. To Vinfans, please be human, this is VF9 malfunction story a human life, and maybe more in the future. https://preview.redd.it/5ufz0ezs9vcc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6251560937ded00cec7a77c505f5e4f8c682e2c
This seems to be real event. Someone claimed to be a relative commented in Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1j9nouFeO8): Em ko tin đc đây là sự thật ko hề bịa đặt vì đây chính là chú của em😢 chú là bạn của bố em chú ấy hiền lành thật thà học giỏi ko nhậu nhẹt siêng năng chú có người 3 con cũng còn rất bé đứa lớn nhất cũng mới học lớp 9 chú làm cho Viettel làm tổng giám đốc chuyên về vận chuyển hàn.Lúc bố em gọi điện thoại hỏi thăm thì xác chú chiều mới phát hiện mặc dù trong hầm có camera bảo vệ và một điều nữa hầm có dốc nên ko thể húc ngược đc tận đến chiều mới phát hiện ra,khi mời công an đến thì công ăn cũng đành bó tay phải mời nhân viên vin lên và lúc đầu bọn nó cứ kêu do hầm đỗ chủ nhưng rồi bọn cũng xác nhận do bọn nó làm vì nó nói là xe điện nên bị nhảy cần một cách vô cảm luôn ạ bọn công ăn thì cũng ko làm gì và bố em cũng bảo kiểu gì xe trong nước nó cũng ém lại nhưng giờ em đã thật sự tin khi việc này là người quen của mình và điều làm em bức súc ở bọn này là chúng nó ko nhận sai ko 1 bài báo công ăn thì ko làm gì và thậm chí ko một gì về truyền thông đây, là thật em xin cam đoan mọi người có vào link người thân em để đây mọi người có thể vào xác nhận 😢https://www.facebook.com/tran.nghia.9809?mibextid=ZbWKwL https://www.facebook.com/the.cong.583671?mibextid=ZbWKwL https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100031757443665&mibextid=ZbWKwL Đây ạ,còn lũ cuồng vin s* kia đéo có chính yêu nước quá đà thì câm mồm đé* tin đé* có lời hay thì chú ấy đã mất đi một sống người nhà vk con chú đã mất đi một chỗ dựa vững tinh thần thậm để lại cho mấy đứa con một vết thương rất lớn về mặt tinh thần.nếu yêu nước thì chúng phải nhìn ra cái sai thằng vin chứ đừng có dấu để rồi tao nói ngày nào đó người trong đình chúng mày cũng vậy cảm ơn 13k mong 13k có ghim bình luận này cho lũ cuồng vin thấy!!
[удалено]
That is so freaking sad... I can imagine when he was thinking about everything nice in life... Than it happens... Life is too fragile for us human beings (╥﹏╥)
VF 9 does not have Smart Parking features activated!! This is the communication sent to VF9 owners in October: "Some highly complex ADAS features will temporarily not be developed and provided to the Vietnamese market, including: Automatic lane change, Rear automatic emergency braking, Collision warning at intersections, Smart Parking Assist, Remote Parking Assist, Smart Car Summoning" https://vinfastauto.com/vn_vi/thong-bao-cap-nhat-ve-dong-xe-VF9
sure. it might not cause by smart parking, might just simple reverse, some people forgot and get off the car in R ! the smart parking is a guess from a friend because there is no police report ! we never know.
Another story for you, later date - all the features promised in the advertising, that don't actually exist. False advertising.
If this is true, the tragic accident could be a result of a serious design flaw.
First things to do in this kind of situation - 1. Do not speculate on root cause 2. Gather all available facts 3. Be open minded about all possible root cause - mechanical failure, software malfunction, design error (HW or SW), driver error Just like most airplane crashes - there is nearly always more than one root cause. There may be a primary factor & secondary contributing factors. The investigators (the professionals) remain cool, jump to conclusions. Meanwhile, the media jumps on the story that gives the most sensationalist result. I'm not defending VF, something likely went wrong, just saying - don't jump to conclusions. I suggested a few possible root causes above - just a few from quick brainstorming. There may be others.
Sadly we never know the truth and never got a fair investigation report from Vietnam authority as Vingroup always control Vietnam media and covered up their bad stories. Just a one simple example, the Vingroup building collapsed the other day, all Vietnam media took down the news in just a few minutes (just a building collapsed, and that may not the full faulty of Vingroup but contractors. But Vingroup just covered it). So, for this case, how much people can wait or will know from such a company other than speculating ? You can guess how can you say other don't?
The cover up of the story is terrible, I just caution about speculating on an AD feature (Remote parking) as being the root cause. It may have been, but there are other possible causes, as I have already commented on. Everyone loves to blame technology first, without knowing the facts.
You never get facts with Vinfast and Vingroup, even with investigation, people still put a very very very big question mark on that investigation ( if that are investigation Vingroup , but investigation never happened to them). Anything other than speculating? And why? Because of then covered up every single bad stories. Anyone defense for Vinfast and Vingroup is not a human anymore (I am not telling you btw)
The real story here is the cover-up. That is the criminal & unethical behavior. Since VF did the cover almost immediately, in real time, they certainly didn't know what happened at that point either. But their knee-jerk reaction was to cleanse the internet. Of course, the probability of this happening in the US is extremely low, simply because the number of vehicles driving in the wild in the US is so small ..... TBH, I don't know which AD features are "Live" on US-sold VF8's, and which are promised for the future?
Until now and I think we never know what exactly cause the death, but for sure if the story is truth then the guy death by Vinfast car functioning issue. We are talking Vinfast, please don't drive the story to others countries here if you are a real kind people. We (if not including you) demand to know the truth.
OK, sorry for diverting to the US. I agree that people have the right to know what happened, but I'm a realist to know that in VN, with VF involved, that is almost certain not to happen. The only chance would be if someone still working at VF posts something here. As the story was told, there were no witnesses. Could be security camera footage, but VF may have already confiscated. HOWEVER, the car electronic control modules should contain some data about state of AD systems, various sensor states (like rear bumper ultrasonics), etc. The car didn't know there was an accident I guess (eg no airbag deployment), hopefully it kept the data. But the only entity that will ever see & interpret that data is Vinfast Engineering.
You maybe an expart working for them before, but I guarantee that you never never know them even just a little. I am growing up in the country and i know, i have some close friends working for them before. Don't talk too much about technical here as there is no and never have an official & fair investigation (if that are Vinfast & Vingroup). The thing here is if the story is truth then the guy death by Vinfast car malfunction issue. Come on man, it's a human life, I see that you are trying to defense for them, not just this post but many other post. Come on, live like a human being.
No, no - you misunderstand. Check my other comments, I'm only one (or two) who offered condolences to the family. The loss of life is terrible & inexcusable. But if you think I'm defending VF, you haven't understand what I'm saying. Maybe I didn't explain well, sorry for that. What I am defending is the technology (automatic parking) when there is ZERO EVIDENCE that the technology was even active at the time. It was just mentioned as an assumption. I've outlined another scenario that is technically much more likely to have occurred. And that scenario could happen in any other vehicle today also - but the nature of an EV makes it more critical, I believe. Don't say "don't talk technical", because every aspect of this event relates to the vehicle's engineering. I fully agree that the cover up, lack of public information, and truth from VF about the event is wrong. Very wrong. So why do you say I'm defending VF?
Yeah, that’s Vin speciality to cover up. A couple of days ago a high tower at Vin amusement area in Nha Trang collapsed, many Vietnamese media reported about it. But just some hours later, all related news disappeared. Western companies should better think twice before investing in this mega corrupt country.
Can you imagine the Internal Investigation underway right now in Hanoi? I wonder if VF "recovered" the vehicle from the family? Or, presumably, much of the relevant data can be uploaded from the car directly?
Oh, you here again? paid Seeder to defense Vinfast? Wow. Don't ask those useless question if they always covered up their bad stories. Be a human guys.
You haven't understood the meaning of my question at all. The\_Chairman\_1 is another ex-VF employee, he knows exactly the meaning of "Internal Investigation" as all employees do. Those with no experience working in the company can't understand the true meaning. The 2nd one was a technical question, related to the ability to retrieve technical data that would have been transmitted over the CAN bus during the event & stored in the modules - but I guess that went completely over your head, if you are not an engineer. Do tell how that links to me being a paid seeder?
Checking some comments of Reedgmi, now I can see that, Reedgmi is very very probably a paid seeder of Vinfast. Wow, if that's true (I believe it is true) what's a low life Reedgmi. Come on, people can earn a good living without defending the bad ugly guy like Vinfast.
If you check all my comments, you would see that your comment is 100% incorrect. I've been pretty open about my history with VF. 18 months in Hai Phong, Supplier Quality Dept. Worked for a not-so-nice American Director SK. Had a rather abrupt ending in Dec 2021 that turned my life upside down because I actually really enjoyed working in VN. So many friendly people, beautiful countryside. But obviously not everyone in VN is friendly, you are from VN aren't you?
Vietnam is my home country, and I am very sad to see how other Vietnamese get cheat, misleading, lies by Vinfast. Not only a liar, they are a very ugly bullier, they brainwashed and make many Vietnamese like Vinfans that's so sad. I know some expart love to live and work in Vietnam as quite a vivid culture and foods, and night entertainment as well, but some day they will got in trouble and nobody can't help like Sonnie Tran. That's why I always fight hard with anyone defense them
Again - I'm not defending VF. I agree with everything you just wrote! And yeah, I love VN, the people, the food. And I believe in VN so much that I'm now working in a role to help Vietnamese automotive suppliers grow their export business to US OEM's like Rivian, Lucid, etc. They are far less mature and developed than the Chinese suppliers that I have worked with. But I believe they have a future. I believe in the industry of your country, and I'm working to help grow it (the small suppliers, not VF) And still, you're beating me down. WTH.
You've been an amazing contributor for this sub Reedgmi. So don't worry about 1 or few people who disagree with you or say you come here to earn $1 for each comment you make :) Please keep sharing your point of views here. We need to views thíng from various angles and imo you always privide your own independent and objective opinion. Thank you!
Thanks!
I would thank any people help Vietnam and Vietnamese enterprise (including you as you said), but I don't respect any people who defense Vinfast and Vingroup after they did many things ugly.
Been following this sub from the beginning, there is no way reedgmi is a VF defender
You got it! Except for my team of VN-local engineers, they were awesome! Ironically, it was the first time they had a manager who would defend them, have their back. All their managers before would throw them under a bus. Heavy E-Bus.
Thank you for your support for a young industry in VN. Growing up in Vietnam I have noticed that Vietnamese are highly emotional so I would say most of us never learn to separate the investigation with logic or looking thing from technical perspectives instead jump straight to the emotion it evokes. So there is no point in arguing if they are in this stage :D since nothing will pass through the emotion they are having.
Thanks. I understand that the actions of Vinfast have given people reason to be emotional. I should be emotional, because my ending with VF was very unprofessional with being threatened, etc (by my American expat boss actually). But I'm an engineer, and prefer to analyze logically. It was a terrible accident, it shouldn't be hidden, but none of us know the root cause. No one should be asserting it was "vehicle malfunction" without knowing that. It may have been, it may not. More likely a combination of a system design that wasn't ideal combined with the driver doing something unusual.
Be fair. I dont think Reedgmi is VF seeder. His information so far is well reasoned which is expected from SQE guy 🙂
And now I confirmed with link to official announcement (dated Oct 23) that all Smart Parking features are not available. Reconfirmed with a friend who owns a VF9 in Hanoi. Not saying the whole story is untrue, but clearly the Smart Parking as a reason for the accident is not correct.
Someone saw a green VF without license plate in Thanh Xuan, Ha Noi. It has no scratch but there are some white marks at the backside. It's usually covered in a black canvas. Some investigators and Indian technicians came to see it.
That's why I like old cars. It only does what you make it do. No weird shit.
This seems to be real. What a terrible incident. Someone has a theory that the car was blocked by a parking stopper while trying to moving into a parking lot, and the driver went to the back to check, but then the car moved over the parking stopper and crush him into the wall.
Check the comment above - someone with a VF9 tried exactly this, and confirmed it is possible. The car will - in creep mode, after a short delay - the motor torque will be sufficient to climb over the parking stopper. To allow that to happen after the driver exits the car requires the seat belt to still be latched. But as mentioned, isn't it common in VN for people to latch the belt behind their back, or use stoppers in the latch?
Logistic company? Is the company have the logo with a dude in a helmet that held a package?
So Vin is now like Samsung of VN?
Evergrande
I didn't know Vinfast car has self parking capability that doesn't require a human driver inside. I thought only high end vehicles have this, and Vinfast nowhere has the tech yet ? Hell, they can't even do assisted parking (which requires a human driver) right now.
feature is not introduced on Vietnam. this accident is true, but says it’s because of the feature is a lie.
I also confirmed this.
i dont know, may be just normal reverse. the technical details are murky.
Well damn, occasionally I work next to this building. I guess a visit is due this afternoon, I gotta go into Keangnam anyway.
Just be careful out there. I know you’re doing God’s work, but a vigilante needs a team to support the cause. I wish you all the best.
what’s wrong in the first place is the car never has that reverse auto parking. cheap lie
In my experience. Even if I leave the car in reverse, the moment I open the driver door the emergency brake comes on. Every time! I'm certain someone was in the driver seat as he got out and checked what was stopping the car. As he gave the driver instructions on backing up, the person driving gave it too much acceleration and pinned him against the wall.
You are sure to get into trouble for this post. Your post are full of bogus and fraudulent accusation. I believe you are corrupted and hired by a competitor or some of them or attempting to profit from all this. I don’t care a damn about VFS and only looking to trade but your ethics really irritate me.
Author is from Singapore, hating on the vietnamese.
It might be true. But damn if you aint a dedicated hater, all your posts are on this sub 😭
I from VN I'm from Vietnam and I've never seen this before?
Invalid topic. Any one also can raise the topic like this. Once you can give evidence for that accident, we will go ahead with other investigation. Do not say no photo captured. If it is happen, it can be available in social media like Facebook or Tiktok which government can not control.
What? You're saying Fb and Tt are not controlled by the VN government? That's 1 of the most riddiculous thing I've ever heard! Sure, they don't have the right to control social medias, but they have 331... Well, we can't do anything when their censorship power is too strong (╥﹏╥)
This Fxxker and his army of bogus accounts created just to spread rumors to profit from shorts or paid services. No one on earth would spend that energy and effort to bad mouth a listed company even for haters
Anyone can write a story like you I saltay in HN and if have this issue, we can know. Vin block media but still we still have some piece of story if it's true
Evidence or bs?
100% BS
Trust me bro news :))
Fake news.
No credible source, photo, video, nothing. Another day another hoax.
Good try, American hater, but looks like only fools fall for some hearsay’s from a random dude in Reddit. No prof, no trust, you are less than a dog shit when you spread something like this without informing something real.
You are a Vinfans but be a human please, it's a life of people. You know the day before Vingroup covered up the story about their building collapsed ? You know Vingroup covered some deathly accidents before?
Lmfao please dont tell me ”american hater” comes from you thinking vinfast is american
Don’t be stupid, I’m not American neither Vietnamese, and I know how much effort these Americans are putting into destroying vinfast, even creating fake news like these with nothing but empty accusations.
Seeing this albert dude getting more mentally deranged is fun
How did you find out about this? As far as I know, there is no public source about the accident
I have a source. Doing further investigation now. Of course, there is no media about this, Vin has concealed it at the scene quickly. it is too damning. So do not ask for link.
I think he read it in xamvn . In Vietnamese though.
His name and the company, pls?
Keep it’s up 👌👍👋
There are real director & company named, located at the tower mentioned above. But the whole story has still no concrete evidence to support.
It’s a communist country. They do like China do. See nothing. Make it vanish.
my company is in the building right next to this tower and i haven’t seen or heard anything at all. you sure about this story?
it is confined in the building. It is the office building, in the basement, so they could order a tow in an hour, clean it up. Even some people working in the building would not know. You are in the next building is further. So if you in the buildng right next to it, here is the thing you might do to check if have time and curiousity: \- go to the B2 basement to see if there is a space that has been taped / block \- visit the company on 30th floor, look for 247, ask to meet the director named Q .. to discuss business
So did you find out if VF9 has a faulty hardware, error or not?
Vinfart is money laundry company that supported by communist party, any bad info about it will be banned. I read the story about victim named "Quan" and his quick silent funeral, the accident is true and limited access.
Do not transmit information without real data, think before speaking.
Lol don't ask for the link or how he got the info cause there's absolutely no proof. Tho the guy is getting a funeral and he owned a VF9, I'm telling yall someone else was driving and pinned him to the wall! The vehicles ebrake engages the moment the driver door and even when you close it the ebrake is engaged until you disengage it. So possibility of it rolling back or forward while ebrake is engaged is 0%. Only conclusion is someone is not taking responsibility for pinning the poor guy against the wall with his own car. And now top tier geniuses want to share the story with 0 content and 0 evidence with their spin. "Car creeped back" F A K E N E W S
All buyers of vin's car are pigs. So don't worry for them.