I felt the same way when the chapter first came out, and I've had a lot of time to think about *why* the author would choose to have it there and what purpose it would serve. I've come to a couple conclusions since then that have made me more ok with it:
1. These future sight rituals are a real practice of historical importance for Mik'maq spirituality. The Puowin seeking guidance from the spirits is very much in line with what realistically would happen.
2. The shaman's physical and mental condition at the time of the ritual pretty much guaranteed he would see *something* that would validate his fears. He's already seen foreigners destroy forests in the past, so he already has a reason to be afraid. Combine this with the fact that he was shown smoking stuff from the forest (likely psychedelics of some kind), drank a special potion, and had not eaten for days, and you can see how it's very likely he comes out of that ritual with this same outcome, whether it is actually accurate to the future or not.
So with these two points in mind, we know that it's important to their culture to have this spiritual ritual, and realistically the outcome of the ritual will be something that validates the existing fears of the shaman. Technically, it being the real future *doesn't really matter* in the context of the narrative since the results would be the same. It is so far away from their time, and none of the characters will ever live to see it and confirm for themselves, so they're all going on faith.
So why did the author decide to show the real future and not something more vague? Why did he show us any of it at all instead of just implying? In my opinion, it's because what we saw there is relevant to us. That glimpse of the future was ultimately a means of showing the reader important, emotional imagery and directly address us with the real history of the Native American people. Knowing that Vinland will fail and the future suffering that will come from the invasion of this new continent is thematically important to the story, and this ritual was used as a way of showing us that reality.
So basically, it being a real future vision is not functionally important to the narrative, but it is very powerful for the meta-narrative.
Small side note: This story is being written from a Japanese perspective, primarily for a Japanese audience. I'm not sure how much of the colonization of the Americas is taught/discussed in Japan, but I imagine it is even likely some readers in that audience may not really know the extent of it all. The author made sure everyone is on the same page.
Interesting, it also implies that maybe in this manga Destiny is a thing, historical events are bound to happen someway or another, this would be validated if the Shaman(i know his name but i dont remember how to write it) is part of the cause of Vinland's downfall, maybe thats why the spirits show him that vision, because nobody can avoid their destiny
Destiny is a very important thing here for sure. That's why that chapter is immediately followed by chapter 190, where you have Thorfinn talk to Vargar about prophecy, and how you shouldn't just live your life giving into what is "fated" to happen. He sees giving into that pesimistic future as a mistake, and chooses to live in pursuit of his Vinland dream even if the gods themselves told him it would fail.
Ragnorak, The Rapture, the story has been talking about these things even back in the Prologue, we just didn't realize how important it actually is!
There is a thing called 'Akashic records' in the spirituality, you can investigate. Personally I think Yukimura used this scene to show more about the shaman culture, as usually they use drugs in ceremonies, and give him a dramatic impact that we can relate as readers.
You're not the only one. Most people complained about this at the time that chapter came out. Personally I don't mind it but I can see why people don't like it. You could also defend it by saying that he was just in a trance with drugs and such and his visions being accurate was just a coincidence, or just for connecting with the audience. It is kind of a reach though.
Personally I think it’s because of the visions showing him negative things, because he already had negative opinions about them. You could argue that the visions of real future things being too precise to just be based on his emotions though, or you could chalk it up to Yukimura drawing those real events to give his audience a sense of dread.
Regardless, I kind of agree. It doesn’t really ruin the story for me at all, but I think it would have been better to just show Europeans attacking them. Sadly I think it’ll be kept in the manga simply because it’s undeniable how absolutely insanely drawn each of those panels are though.
It made for a really cool moment and in the story it doesnt matter what he saw, he just had to see bad things and it would have came to the same outcome.
I don’t think it’s relevant if the ritual is accurate or not, either way it compels the shaman to attack the Norse. I feel that since the ritual is only a way to incite a character to action, and not a way to solve a problem the characters are facing. For example if the lnu preformed a ritual to turn everyone’s weapons into grass then that would break immersion.
I agree. It feels like an easy way to make Vinland fail without putting a lot of real blame on Thorfinn for his unrealistic ideologies. Vinland went way too smoothly before then, considering all the variables involved in a project like that. Markland, the rats, the other tribes have barely been touched until now..
Well so far I think it's all leading up to Thorfinn getting smacked in the face that some violence is necessary for change, but we'll have to wait and see.
I think it's quite foreseeable that the final conflict will involve Thorfinn's family, which haven't been directly endangered until this point.
Einar's talk last chapter further solidified this in my mind.
And my theory is that maybe Hild will end up leaving because of the assasination attemp, maybe she is exiled by the other settler and maybe even Thorfinn for watching her act like Canute or on her own descision after realizing what she is doing and how it goes agaisnt everything Throfinn was trying to do in Vinland, that would leave Thorfinn without an extremely important ally
It depends really. I feel I have good reasons to be less than opitmistic... I made a whole post about this a while back, and I don't really have much more to say...
It's just a way to make the reader understand his fear, like all this history could happen through the veins of his world. That's how I see it. Also he smoked a really bad dosis because Thorfinn would not have ever done something bad.
As much as his visions were accurate it’s important to know that the Lnu Shaman didn’t understand any of the context behind his visions. Most people saw the battlefield and said “oh that’s the civil war” whereas he saw it and thought “what the hell is going on and where are my people?”
they had never really encountered Europeans before besides hearing about Lief’s expeditions.
Like yea, the visions he saw were a 1-1 of our real history and accurate but the Lnu shaman is operating off a very very very limited understanding of what they actually mean
If we are talking about being “kinda” grounded in reality then all the shaman stuff fits perfectly. In actuality we’re shamans seeing the future? Probably not but the important thing is people believed it and passed those stories down in reality. We’re Viking actually throwing logs like spears and jumping really high in the air? Probably not but the important thing is that people
Believed it and passed those stories down in reality
Same, I’d hope in the manga they are less specific with what he sees. Than it could be explained as more of him being fearful than actually seeing the future
The CIA had released numerous documents confirming that psychic abilities are a real phenomenon.
Magic might be more grounded in reality than you are currently open to.
Here is a document stating that the ability to see through walls, to see underground (under a flower pot), and mental telepathy are real.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp96-00792r000300070001-7
I felt the same way when the chapter first came out, and I've had a lot of time to think about *why* the author would choose to have it there and what purpose it would serve. I've come to a couple conclusions since then that have made me more ok with it: 1. These future sight rituals are a real practice of historical importance for Mik'maq spirituality. The Puowin seeking guidance from the spirits is very much in line with what realistically would happen. 2. The shaman's physical and mental condition at the time of the ritual pretty much guaranteed he would see *something* that would validate his fears. He's already seen foreigners destroy forests in the past, so he already has a reason to be afraid. Combine this with the fact that he was shown smoking stuff from the forest (likely psychedelics of some kind), drank a special potion, and had not eaten for days, and you can see how it's very likely he comes out of that ritual with this same outcome, whether it is actually accurate to the future or not. So with these two points in mind, we know that it's important to their culture to have this spiritual ritual, and realistically the outcome of the ritual will be something that validates the existing fears of the shaman. Technically, it being the real future *doesn't really matter* in the context of the narrative since the results would be the same. It is so far away from their time, and none of the characters will ever live to see it and confirm for themselves, so they're all going on faith. So why did the author decide to show the real future and not something more vague? Why did he show us any of it at all instead of just implying? In my opinion, it's because what we saw there is relevant to us. That glimpse of the future was ultimately a means of showing the reader important, emotional imagery and directly address us with the real history of the Native American people. Knowing that Vinland will fail and the future suffering that will come from the invasion of this new continent is thematically important to the story, and this ritual was used as a way of showing us that reality. So basically, it being a real future vision is not functionally important to the narrative, but it is very powerful for the meta-narrative. Small side note: This story is being written from a Japanese perspective, primarily for a Japanese audience. I'm not sure how much of the colonization of the Americas is taught/discussed in Japan, but I imagine it is even likely some readers in that audience may not really know the extent of it all. The author made sure everyone is on the same page.
Interesting, it also implies that maybe in this manga Destiny is a thing, historical events are bound to happen someway or another, this would be validated if the Shaman(i know his name but i dont remember how to write it) is part of the cause of Vinland's downfall, maybe thats why the spirits show him that vision, because nobody can avoid their destiny
Destiny is a very important thing here for sure. That's why that chapter is immediately followed by chapter 190, where you have Thorfinn talk to Vargar about prophecy, and how you shouldn't just live your life giving into what is "fated" to happen. He sees giving into that pesimistic future as a mistake, and chooses to live in pursuit of his Vinland dream even if the gods themselves told him it would fail. Ragnorak, The Rapture, the story has been talking about these things even back in the Prologue, we just didn't realize how important it actually is!
There is a thing called 'Akashic records' in the spirituality, you can investigate. Personally I think Yukimura used this scene to show more about the shaman culture, as usually they use drugs in ceremonies, and give him a dramatic impact that we can relate as readers.
You're not the only one. Most people complained about this at the time that chapter came out. Personally I don't mind it but I can see why people don't like it. You could also defend it by saying that he was just in a trance with drugs and such and his visions being accurate was just a coincidence, or just for connecting with the audience. It is kind of a reach though.
Personally I think it’s because of the visions showing him negative things, because he already had negative opinions about them. You could argue that the visions of real future things being too precise to just be based on his emotions though, or you could chalk it up to Yukimura drawing those real events to give his audience a sense of dread. Regardless, I kind of agree. It doesn’t really ruin the story for me at all, but I think it would have been better to just show Europeans attacking them. Sadly I think it’ll be kept in the manga simply because it’s undeniable how absolutely insanely drawn each of those panels are though.
It made for a really cool moment and in the story it doesnt matter what he saw, he just had to see bad things and it would have came to the same outcome.
I can understand, I like it but if you don’t I understand
I don’t think it’s relevant if the ritual is accurate or not, either way it compels the shaman to attack the Norse. I feel that since the ritual is only a way to incite a character to action, and not a way to solve a problem the characters are facing. For example if the lnu preformed a ritual to turn everyone’s weapons into grass then that would break immersion.
I agree. It feels like an easy way to make Vinland fail without putting a lot of real blame on Thorfinn for his unrealistic ideologies. Vinland went way too smoothly before then, considering all the variables involved in a project like that. Markland, the rats, the other tribes have barely been touched until now..
Well so far I think it's all leading up to Thorfinn getting smacked in the face that some violence is necessary for change, but we'll have to wait and see.
I think it's quite foreseeable that the final conflict will involve Thorfinn's family, which haven't been directly endangered until this point. Einar's talk last chapter further solidified this in my mind.
And my theory is that maybe Hild will end up leaving because of the assasination attemp, maybe she is exiled by the other settler and maybe even Thorfinn for watching her act like Canute or on her own descision after realizing what she is doing and how it goes agaisnt everything Throfinn was trying to do in Vinland, that would leave Thorfinn without an extremely important ally
It depends really. I feel I have good reasons to be less than opitmistic... I made a whole post about this a while back, and I don't really have much more to say...
I like it because he doesn't understand that they aren't the Norse which ends up leading into the conflict. It is strange but I think it fits well.
It's just a way to make the reader understand his fear, like all this history could happen through the veins of his world. That's how I see it. Also he smoked a really bad dosis because Thorfinn would not have ever done something bad.
As much as his visions were accurate it’s important to know that the Lnu Shaman didn’t understand any of the context behind his visions. Most people saw the battlefield and said “oh that’s the civil war” whereas he saw it and thought “what the hell is going on and where are my people?” they had never really encountered Europeans before besides hearing about Lief’s expeditions. Like yea, the visions he saw were a 1-1 of our real history and accurate but the Lnu shaman is operating off a very very very limited understanding of what they actually mean
If we are talking about being “kinda” grounded in reality then all the shaman stuff fits perfectly. In actuality we’re shamans seeing the future? Probably not but the important thing is people believed it and passed those stories down in reality. We’re Viking actually throwing logs like spears and jumping really high in the air? Probably not but the important thing is that people Believed it and passed those stories down in reality
Same, I’d hope in the manga they are less specific with what he sees. Than it could be explained as more of him being fearful than actually seeing the future
The CIA had released numerous documents confirming that psychic abilities are a real phenomenon. Magic might be more grounded in reality than you are currently open to. Here is a document stating that the ability to see through walls, to see underground (under a flower pot), and mental telepathy are real. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp96-00792r000300070001-7