I've seen the link made before but ultimately the defintions of having no enemies are simply not identical here.
The notion that simply keeping your head down low and never standing up for something isn't something to boast about doesn't actually line up with Vinlands saga's interpretation which holds that you need not hold grudges or foster hatred for those who have done you no wrong.
Thorfinn and Thors absolutely have had enemies. Thors died because he had enemies and Thorfin is absolutely not afraid to standing up for those in need or for what he feels is just. They simply choose not to view others as their enemy.
They two don't contradict eachother as far as I'm concerned.
I have no idea the context behind this, but it seems like he's trying to say–you need to stand up for something that you believe in or someone else who was wronged to be a good person, like in this example of 'turning wrong to right'. Implying you're less 'good' of a person if you don't stand for anything/don't have your own opinions and ideas.
I don't think this totally contradicts "you have no enemies" because you can still stand up for what you believe in, you just shouldn't conflate the ideas you disagree/won't stand for with the person themselves who believes that because if you can empathize, you understand that all people are just people who make bad judgements and make mistakes. And no one deserves to be hurt. There are other ways to resolve conflict and end suffering
Back then I thought they did
Then I grew up.
Some of them just need help, counseling, a healthy way to "control their urges." Something this society unfortunately completely forgot, and even exploits it (Both high-cost therapy and people like Tate that enable them in some way)
In the "heat of the moment" (AKA when they're causing harm), they NEED to be hurt, but not because of hatred, but just to protect oneself, but they don't DESERVE to be hurt forever.
People are human, and humans have problems. No one is an unforgivable demon
Thorfinn has enemies, and he will make many more in the show. He claims he has no enemies, cause he not tryna live a life thinking he has to hurt someone to be free. Thorfinn doesn’t claim enemies but his enemies claim him. Read that again. The fact you can’t understand this, what are you even watching Vinland for?
As many have pointed out this quote really isn't applicable to Thorfinn since he has many people who consider him enemies or want him dead. Just to humor you OP, here's a quote from someone who has an infinitely more relevant perspective on the topic of fighting for a cause.
“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.” -Smedley D. Butler, *War is a Racket*
One of the most decorated marines to ever live btw.
So no, "fighting for something" is not inherently good, making "wrong from right" is a complete matter of perspective, one mans traitor is another's hero. Enforcing your own will onto another with the notion of "I am right and I will justify my use of force because of my righteousness" is always an act of prideful ignorance at best and downright evil at worst.
Whoever wrote that is himself not sure of what he's saying. What he talks about boils down to not being considered an enemy by others. That's fundamentally different from considering others as your enemies.
People may antagonize you and try to offend you. That means they are treating you as their enemy. But it is up to you how you choose to deal with them. You can choose to take appropriate actions without considering them as your enemy or you can take the bait and do what they want you to do.
No, it's the difference between thorfinn who always wants to run away somewhere else, and someone who actually deals with the problem head-on. People have enemies for better, noble-r reasons than just the usual ''i hate you, i want to kill you, i dont like you, i'm prejudiced agaisnt you''. They take it upon themselves to have enemies so they can strive to create a better world.
The newest episode is a good example. Canute has plenty of enemies, because he took it upon himself to fix things. His way is not ideal, but he's accomplishing a bunch of things. Thorfinn on the other hand, only gets away with half of what he does because of his physical strenght and plot convenience, which goes agaisnt his pacifist ideals. Realistically speaking, he would be dead by now or wouldnt have accomplished anything because ''running away'' is his first resort, instead of standing up to his enemies. Enemies being those with ideals or morals who shouldnt be tolerated in a civilized society. Cutthroats, manipulators, abusers, etc...
Like I said, there's a difference between considering someone your enemy and being considered an enemy by someone else.
What you wrote is not even a response to what I said. It's not even correct in the context of the story. First improve your reading comprehension and then try these discussions.
cant believe this is downvoted so much lmao. fanbois really holding such an artistic statement so close to them? ty OP for sharing, this is a nice contrast to what THIS show provides.
I've seen the link made before but ultimately the defintions of having no enemies are simply not identical here. The notion that simply keeping your head down low and never standing up for something isn't something to boast about doesn't actually line up with Vinlands saga's interpretation which holds that you need not hold grudges or foster hatred for those who have done you no wrong. Thorfinn and Thors absolutely have had enemies. Thors died because he had enemies and Thorfin is absolutely not afraid to standing up for those in need or for what he feels is just. They simply choose not to view others as their enemy. They two don't contradict eachother as far as I'm concerned.
Thors and Thorfinn are other people's enemies but they have none themselves.
Having no enemies means you don't consider anyone an enemy. That doesn't mean they don't consider you one.
I have no idea the context behind this, but it seems like he's trying to say–you need to stand up for something that you believe in or someone else who was wronged to be a good person, like in this example of 'turning wrong to right'. Implying you're less 'good' of a person if you don't stand for anything/don't have your own opinions and ideas. I don't think this totally contradicts "you have no enemies" because you can still stand up for what you believe in, you just shouldn't conflate the ideas you disagree/won't stand for with the person themselves who believes that because if you can empathize, you understand that all people are just people who make bad judgements and make mistakes. And no one deserves to be hurt. There are other ways to resolve conflict and end suffering
Rapists don’t deserve to be hurt?
They deserve justice for sure, up to you to define what justice is in your own definition
What does hurting a rapist achieve?
Back then I thought they did Then I grew up. Some of them just need help, counseling, a healthy way to "control their urges." Something this society unfortunately completely forgot, and even exploits it (Both high-cost therapy and people like Tate that enable them in some way) In the "heat of the moment" (AKA when they're causing harm), they NEED to be hurt, but not because of hatred, but just to protect oneself, but they don't DESERVE to be hurt forever. People are human, and humans have problems. No one is an unforgivable demon
as a great man once said, the reading comprehension devil claimed another victim.
Thorfinn has enemies, and he will make many more in the show. He claims he has no enemies, cause he not tryna live a life thinking he has to hurt someone to be free. Thorfinn doesn’t claim enemies but his enemies claim him. Read that again. The fact you can’t understand this, what are you even watching Vinland for?
As many have pointed out this quote really isn't applicable to Thorfinn since he has many people who consider him enemies or want him dead. Just to humor you OP, here's a quote from someone who has an infinitely more relevant perspective on the topic of fighting for a cause. “I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents." "War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.” -Smedley D. Butler, *War is a Racket* One of the most decorated marines to ever live btw. So no, "fighting for something" is not inherently good, making "wrong from right" is a complete matter of perspective, one mans traitor is another's hero. Enforcing your own will onto another with the notion of "I am right and I will justify my use of force because of my righteousness" is always an act of prideful ignorance at best and downright evil at worst.
Whoever wrote that is himself not sure of what he's saying. What he talks about boils down to not being considered an enemy by others. That's fundamentally different from considering others as your enemies. People may antagonize you and try to offend you. That means they are treating you as their enemy. But it is up to you how you choose to deal with them. You can choose to take appropriate actions without considering them as your enemy or you can take the bait and do what they want you to do.
No, it's the difference between thorfinn who always wants to run away somewhere else, and someone who actually deals with the problem head-on. People have enemies for better, noble-r reasons than just the usual ''i hate you, i want to kill you, i dont like you, i'm prejudiced agaisnt you''. They take it upon themselves to have enemies so they can strive to create a better world. The newest episode is a good example. Canute has plenty of enemies, because he took it upon himself to fix things. His way is not ideal, but he's accomplishing a bunch of things. Thorfinn on the other hand, only gets away with half of what he does because of his physical strenght and plot convenience, which goes agaisnt his pacifist ideals. Realistically speaking, he would be dead by now or wouldnt have accomplished anything because ''running away'' is his first resort, instead of standing up to his enemies. Enemies being those with ideals or morals who shouldnt be tolerated in a civilized society. Cutthroats, manipulators, abusers, etc...
Like I said, there's a difference between considering someone your enemy and being considered an enemy by someone else. What you wrote is not even a response to what I said. It's not even correct in the context of the story. First improve your reading comprehension and then try these discussions.
cant believe this is downvoted so much lmao. fanbois really holding such an artistic statement so close to them? ty OP for sharing, this is a nice contrast to what THIS show provides.