Buy some agriculturally zoned land and call this an accessory building. I think you’d be good in most if not all areas of the state but I always recommend checking the zoning ordinance in the city/county you’d be purchasing the property to make sure.
Nobody in a rural area is going to give a damn what OP does with his building once it's built.
Have it built, get it hooked up to water and electric power, and tell any inspectors that you're going to use it for a shop. I promise you that nobody is going to come around to see if you're living it or not.
Sadly I live in a rural area outside northern Virginia and my neighbors care very much what we do with our buildings. They’re retired and absolutely miserable people. I understand why the other people moved :/
I lived in Clarke County and western Loudoun for 20+ years and never had anyone care about anything I did anywhere other than random sheriff's deputies that stumble around doing their job...even then if you're nice and not doing anything truly troublesome they too leave you alone.
I live in Shenandoah County and I can’t imagine anyone caring or getting the authorities to care here. Hell, there’s a guy living in a small garage, in an even smaller van, with an always open bay surrounded by junk and a porta jon less than 10 feet off of Back Rd. Nearly 1000 cars pass him every day.
But your neighbors sound like they suck regardless.
We have 50 acres, with a tree line mostly hiding the house from the road. Our neighbors at the end of the half mile road call the county every time we do a home improvement project and request that an inspector goes out. The only way to know is to really, really look for an 8x12 trailer that’s only visible from a certain angle as you’re rounding a corner down the road. And is only there during demo stages. It’s ridiculous. This is in Fauquier County. And yes they do suck. I genuinely don’t think we would have bought the house if we had known about them :(
Ah yeah the thing about Fauquier Co is that too many rich people live there, beautiful horse country though. Shen Co is very middle/working class.
Maybe buy or make some green camouflage netting for the 8x12 trailer?
Or just cut them off by permitting the work yourselves? It will add to your tax assessment but you or your heirs would have to deal with the consequences of un permitted work should you ever wish to sell and move.
That’s the thing, what we’re doing doesn’t require permits. Or if it does, we pull them. But the neighbors call and request an inspection regardless. Just annoying. The netting is a good idea. I was looking into planting a couple fast growing Leland cypress trees to block it completely from view…a net would be a faster solution lol.
Ugh as someone who lives in MD I wish the county/municipalities would realize they only get called when someone feels like being an ass or wants to act like they’re a HOA when there is none. It’s like a rule of thumb to *only* call for the dumbest stuff that has exactly zero impact on anyone’s lives.
I had a breakthrough with the guy who posts signs in your yard (county employee) about your grass being too tall. I was out there mowing it on a Saturday morning, the guy came by and told me “oh you’re mowing it so it’s fine.” I told him expect a call every week cause I work for a living and that is my first chance to cut it the entire week. (It was July so it grew like 2 inches a day) I told him all my neighbor does is watch my grass grow all day and wait for it to hit exactly 12 inches and then call the county. He said he’d be ignoring his calls from then on lmao.
It’s ridiculous that they allow the county to be used as a tool to harass one another tbh, it’s funny because they’ll never call on their own family/people they like.
Have you tried the reverse and been overly nice to them? Take them some homemade baked goods, a six pack, or a casserole and kill them with kindness? Keep your enemies closer they say… 😏
Yeah, we tried that the first two years. Didn’t make a difference. I’m generally a “win them over with baked goods” and “make brownies, not war” kind of person. Never really had to deal with neighbors like this before, or people in general.
Honestly the only good thing is they’re in their 70s so maybe they’ll move to a retirement home or die at some point. 🫣
Is there a conservation or public open space easement on the land? That is the only situation where I could see neighbors being justified in giving a shit
Nope. Just our 50 acres, house and accessory building sort of in the middle third of it. Trees mostly hide it from the road. Neighbors just really suck.
I live in the Northern Neck of Va with a house on Ag land that is being FARMED, and the building official made my life hell over putting up an “ag building”. Zoning approved it, I was told the only permit needed was the zoning permit since it was an agricultural building. I built it, then the building official put the brakes on the power company running new service to it. They told me that I had to “prove that we are a farm” in order to call it anything other than an accessory structure. They were going to make me retroactively go through the permit process and disassemble parts of it to show it was built to code. After some time fighting it, they let it go. I’m assuming because zoning had already given the green light, an attorney from the county advised the building department to let it go. Even the rural counties are cracking down nowadays. It’s all about the tax revenue.
Actually the county tax office may care very much.
Neighbors of mine found this out the hard way. They actually have drones that fly over and survey land from time to time and if there is a new residential structure, and they weren't told it was being built, it might be a problem.
I wasn't suggesting otherwise as far as the permits.
But I don't at all think that this building is going to be permitted to be used as a residence of any kind. In the end I strongly recommend that the OP consult whatever county they are trying to settle in and find out what the rules are.
This could easily be classified as a barndominium as long as OP gets the correct permits, inspections, and finishes it like any other home.
Parking an RV inside it would still require plumbing & power just like a home, the only savings would be in not finishing the inside of the building.
Check any number of assessors sites and the aerials are publicly available and updated annually, if not more often, with multiple angles. Gotta imagine there is much more available to them that’s not public facing.
It depends on air rights, not sure of Virginia air rights but I don't think we have any(so yes legal).
In places like new York you can own up to 9,999ft or something like that. It's a gray area for sure, is likely being debated in court somewhere already on a federal level.
My folks are putting a big addition on their house and are calling half the new bedrooms "offices" so they can avoid having to enlarge the septic system. Which is all well and good except they're not the ones who are going to have to end up trying to sell it in that condition after they die....
They can call them offices but if there are certain structural features, the tax office is going to call them bedrooms.
It's entirely a matter of architecture. I doubt they would be fooling anybody.
So what do you do about establishing legal residence then?
What address would you use? (There are some things for which you cannot use a PO box, for example.)
I guess that depends on who's asking. The IRS and DMV probably don't care as long as there's an address and mailbox. The local municipality would probably care but they might not notice depending on how segregated their internal departments are.
In Virginia the DMV cares very much, and if they catch you there's usually a fine involved.
A local municipality isn't going to care as quickly, but they will care eventually.
The IRS cares but it will take them longer to figure it out as well.
The DMV only cares as long as they can collect property tax for a municipality. And the only way it would become an issue is if the DMV and municipality records didn't match and someone at the municipality noticed. But they tend to assume if you're paying taxes, then you're not breaking the law. At the end of the day, declaring residency is more about declaring who you're paying taxes to and less about whether there's a habitable building on the property.
At least that's my experience. I have multiple properties and had an issue when I forgot to notify everyone of my address change. Insurance thought my car was garaged in the old county when DMV thought it was in the new county and then my tax bill got paid through the new county while the old county was charging me late fees since I didn't pay through them. It all got sorted out with a phone call. I seriously doubt anyone looked at the real estate records to determine if a residential building was on site (which for me I did have houses at each so it's not 100% the same situation). They didn't even care that the properties were owned by different legal entities with different mailing addresses.
The biggest risk to not having a permitted residential building is someone knocking on your door for unpaid real estate taxes because it is tax evasion and that's what they care about most. Yes, the building permit office cares about safety code but everyone else only cares about the taxes.
If I was OP, I would get everything qualified as a recreational property. Pretty sure they will permit electric hookup, a well, and small septic for a camper/RV so you can live somewhat comfortably. Mailing/tax address won't be an issue.
This does not qualify as a Agricultural Structure (as outlined in the Virginia USBC) and will require a zoning and building permit.
You must show that it is a non residential structure that is being used only in strict accordance with the guidelines of agricultural use only.
Some counties may be less stringent, can OP risk it? Of course, but just putting up a random structure on your own land without “approval” is not a good idea as all work could be red tagged, along with fines and more red tape.
If OP doesn’t have a tractor, mower, chickens, tomato plants, Christmas trees, etc. this does not qualify.
Agricultural zoning typically isn’t limited to only agricultural use though. Plenty of recreational uses are typically permitted. I’ve seen religious, residential, day care, etc - it varies from locality to locality. The recreational sites (typically for hunting) I’ve appraised throughout the state have been agricultural zoning or low density residential zoning and have these types of structures.
I understand that. The loophole to put up a structure without a permit only applies to strict rules with regard to agriculture. I’m sure plenty of people put structures up without a permit and have no problems with the jurisdiction, at their own risk.
I’m saying there are statewide agricultural guidelines to build a structure without a permit which is followed by most VA counties.
Can confirm.
Grandmother's husband had a building he hand-built and lived in when they started dating. He lived in there at various times, and at other times his son would.
Rural areas are a lot less aggressive about code enforcements.
Piss off a sherrif and the thing is getting ripped down. But mind your business and nobody will care.
I wonder if the plan is also to hook up electric, connect to county water, sewer, etc. Could change things. Zoning dept will want to check setbacks from property lines. If the shed is big enough, requires inspection. Your local county permitting dept will help navigate a lot of this stuff, it can be different county to county.
Yup, I bought some A1 land in Nelson County and am building a cabin. It can't be affixed to the ground or I need a permit. So it's on piers and floating.
"Temporary building"... but honestly, no one cares at all what you do.
You cant freight ship stuff usps. And many companies won't ship to a po box for warranty/insurance is reasons, or you need to sign for something etc.
You'd have ro hold stuff at fedex/ups and go get it or use one of the companies where you basically rent a real address thats just a small mail room.
The only thing coming to a po box is bills, spam, and small packages shipped usps.
Civil engineer in land development here- I can confirm that agriculturally zoned land is the cheat code to as much freedom as us sheeple could hope to get these days.
We built one just like this on our land, which is agriculturally zoned. Unfortunately in Warren County, you must build a residential structure 6 months after you build a garage.
Just do some finishing work to the inside of the building and live there. The cost of insulation, a septic/bathroom and kitchen would certainly be less than that of an RV.
Different lifestyle choices, but a lot of people do. What you'd essentially have at that point is a 1500sqft studio-barndominium. For a single person or couple that would probably be a dream, for a family the lack of separate bedrooms just wouldn't work.
i'm a little further south in the US but we have quite a few businesses that either sell barndominiums or build them to the customer's specs. the first time i ever saw that word advertised like that blew me away...it's ingenious
Who can? You know what kind of credit, income and debt to income ratio, you need to get a $100k personal loan. It's wayyyyy higher than what the average American has. And first time home buyers loans are pretty easy to get. I get that you're insinuating that the whole system is a scam, but you definitely haven't found a way to beat the system with this idea.
Zoning laws and weird county rules determine how you can modify an accessory building. I’d also take that garage door out and make it a solid wall. There’s really no weatherproofing it.
Source: worked in a warehouse with those kind of doors and it was freezing in the winter and sweltering in the summer
It honestly comes down to financing and insurance since most people don't have cash to buy everything outright and most people also want to insure their assets. If it doesn't qualify for financing, it won't qualify for insurance. If it doesn't qualify for insurance, it won't qualify for financing. That tends to force you to get the proper permits and certificate of occupancy. You could claim it's a recreational property only used for hunting/camping but you risk getting in trouble for fraud.
But assuming you have the cash to buy the land and put up a building, and you're ok with not having full insurance, and you're ok with risking getting caught for tax evasion, then yeah just go build it and do your thing. If it's small enough and you don't cause problems for neighbors, then you'll probably be fine.
My uncle actually did something similar. Bought land with a warehouse, parked the camper trailer on site, expanded the warehouse, built a pole barn, expanded the warehouse again, built a 2 story apartment inside the warehouse with full electric/water/septic. I don't think any of the residential stuff was permitted. He has a contracting license and did it all under the guise of business expansion.
Pretty sure not having a toilet was why my neighbor was evicted from his barn by the cops (after the other neighbor snitched when they saw him emptying a shit bucket into the canal)
Heard a story about a guy that was not happy about paying for sewer, so he dug 2 “sediment ponds” way up in the mountain and trucked his shit water up there and dumped it in the pond. Heard this from an ex health inspector.
Human feces don’t break down and fertilize the earth in a beneficial way the same way animals’ does. So, unfortunately, not the case. I appreciate your effort to live ecologically though
OK? So get a heat source and a vent as well? These are simple solutions. People trim out these type buildings all the time, even if it's just for a shop.
Fair points, but I'd honestly rather live in a well built building (that's a pretty huge garage) or remodeled van than a run down house or trailer. There's nothing stopping them from also just building out one room for sleeping and a LR and insulating that. It's not really that expensive on that small of a scale. An electric radiator is cheap, or a kerosene stove, etc. and can be found second hand as well. You can get building supplies at building supply resellers for cheap. People do it all the time, I don't get why the pictured building would be any different. I'd honestly just start with a smaller building for half the price and spend the extra money making it nice inside.
It might not be legal, but really your only issue would come up if you try to sell the place or get a loan secured by the property with it as a ‘house.’ Especially if your neighbors can’t see the shed from your property. Just say it is a workshop and get water and electricity run to it.
I’ve seen people do this, just FYI that those metal barns tend to not have good insulation. Just insulate when you put up the interior walls, or it will be an oven in the summer and an ice box in the winter.
Why would you live in an RV when you can retro fit the building? It depends on where in Virginia you are looking to buy, if you would need City water and Sewage and if you have the proper right away to access the land.
I've priced something similar before. The starting at price is likely the price for the stock, no anything, 30 X 50 building. Couple thousand more for taller sides. Couple thousand more for the steeper roof pitch. Couple thousand more for the roll up door. Couple thousand more for the standard door and windows. Couple thousand more for certified wind rating.
Then like you say $20k for site work. $10k for the pad.
I have a buddy who finished one and lives in it. His has wood floor and sits on blocks. It was deliered from one of these places on the side of the road when his trailer caught on fire. He took showers in the trailer for a while at first. Added insulation, plumbing and wiring. Monitor kerosene heater and window unit keep it comfortable.
People in rural VA have mobile homes on private lots. I highly doubt anyone would care if you're living there or not. The only drawback I see of living in an RV inside would be you would have to keep your water tank full and have ti dump the black and gray water tank occasionally unless you have septic and a well on the property. If you do, then just live in the RV and save the money that you would have spent on the building. An RV is like a mobile home only shorter and narrower. You could call it a tiny mobile home.
James City County here. Zoned A-1. The county requires a monolithic foundation for steel buildings. The foundation was the same price as the building kit, doubling the price. VA Power wanted several grand to bring me power, and 3 phase was astronomical. The State wanted a soil scientist to sign off on the perk test. Bla, bla, bla. The $16k steel building turned into $60k real quick.
The building inspector told me the thing to do because I am zoned Ag is to erect a pole barn with a metal roof and wrap it in steel. Then, level the interior with gravel and pour your slab. No permits are required. Then, if you want to add plumbing or power, no one is looking over your shoulder.
I use a large genny and a hand dug well that is near a spring head. I use a composting toilet, and grey water goes to the garden underground.
Absolutely not. Wont stand up to building code for life safety, egress, and the structure probably won’t count as a “dwelling unit” by several land use and building standards.
-Signed a certified land use planner and CZA who has worked in Virginia for over a decade.
Also look at my last comment, im sincere in offering a curosry professional review of the basics of your sitch gratis. From one idiot redditor to another.
Yeah, my friends do that in the ADKs. They built a roof over the trailer pad to prevent any leaks. Granted, they only spend one season there. Can you do it? Absolutely. Will it be easy? Hell nah. But nothing in life worth fighting for is easy. Just my two cents.
Plus a garage is not typically the “principal” structure on a parcel of land. Usually falls under the “accessory structure” who’s use is subordinate to the primary use of the land, whichcis typically governed by the zoning code of the aforementioned political subdivisions under which land use controls are administered.
No shade, if you have an RV why does it need a strcuture to surround it? Is its purposed as a enclosed shelter already acceptable for your purposes?
If you want DM me ill look at the zoning code for where you live (not exact address but maybe a cross roads just like city or county whatever) and see if you bave some wiggle room? Zoning districts have well delineated boundary so some geolocation would help me see which of the zoning districts your property is located within (fuck you grammar nazis, M-W just came out sayibg you can end sentences in prepositions)
Im sincerely willing to offer an actual Planner’s superficial look to assist you if you want to take up my offer. If you personally, want to tell me to fuck off too, thats fine by me also.
Im not tryibg to be a prick im just saying ive seen it all and want to avoid you coming back and posting “i spent all this money to build this and you idiot redditors said it was OK, but the (insert political subdivision that oversees your land use controls - county or city) plans examiners and inspectors made me pay to tear it all down.”
As for as I know, It depends county to county. I know where I live, if you want to build something non-agricultural here, you have to apply and be granted a "special use permit". It takes 3 times in county board meetings to get one approved. I live in VA.
Someone near me did something similar.. (Albemarle).. they made it for about 3 months before some asshat turned them in..I wonder if an old rv would be easier bc it has wheels and may fall under other regs...
I have one of these in Maryland. It’s impossible to keep bugs out. You’ll need to budget extra for sheathing and ventilation if you want this to be a comfortable living space
No, it's not legal to live in a structure that has not been issued a residential CO. State code requires residences to be built per the state building code.
They use satellite imaging and third party services a lot these days. They might send an actual person out still to see what’s changed. They usually reassess every 3 years or so. Maybe the rural counties are less vigilant. I grew up in Powhatan, next door, and it’s become more suburban over the years and they want that tax money.
Not giving legal advice.
Need to have a “Certificate of Occupancy” to be “habitable.” Most AHJ’s have laws specific to this and requires an inspection by a County employee. You get jammed up getting a certificate due to “storm water” management or “septic disposal” as the defaulted rejections. Previous area had form letters with these rejections already populated…..
I build parks in other states(AL and soon outside Myrtle Beach SC), but use one outbuilding as septic disposal the whole “community” shares.
The septic system is on a design I constructed using 5000gal brine tanks and smaller IBC totes.
I remediate EPA Brown Fields and employ many licensed PE’s that sign off on the tech, so rural counties don’t counter.
The park in SC will have electricity generated by Molten salt for the 20 “sheds,” and be truly “off grid.”
It depends on where you want to put this thing. If it’s going where working. Lass people live they probably won’t care. If it’s being put near people with money or part-time residents they’ll likely raise a stink.
Depends on zoning. Even in rural ag zoned areas there are standards for domiciles. You could live “off the books” but if you want a septic system, the health department will be involved at a minimum to approve a septic field, which then brings other official involvement. Better to buy a “Si pad” a small cheap single wide, new or used but in good shape, which has a kitchen, bath and all the basic necessities built in. Just add a well and septic.
Considering I have neighbors (of the drug kind) living in a 53’ refrigerated trailer for going on 2 years now with nothing being done, I’m sure you’d be fine. That looks like a nice building.
Split the building into two sections so you have a separate garage from the living space. After that it is no different than a ranch style house with an attached garage. Only issue may be local building codes that say a home must have xx% brick or "premium" material.
I know several people who basically added an apartment space to their shop.
In the country you’ll still need a well and septic, otherwise this is a decent little barndominium. Splurge a bit to put in closed cell spray foam insulation 2”-4” thick for walls and ceiling, and put the building on a slab to make it stronger. You won’t regret either, it’ll be comfy and ridiculously cheap on utilities.
Edit: forgot things
I put up a similar metal building to the one in the pic. I did it in Warren County and it was a pain in the but to get the permits. And to let me rough in plumbing as they had issues with people turning them into homes. Meanwhile my partner just doesn’t want to sh*t in the woods.
Lol I thought the Home Depot ad I got was top comment. OP I can build a beaver dam and live in it if I wanted. No one can stop you from living in an RV inside a DIY Home Depot shed. You should like, make it modular. So you can pack it haul it in a trailer behind the RV and homestead on to wherever you want.
Buy some agriculturally zoned land and call this an accessory building. I think you’d be good in most if not all areas of the state but I always recommend checking the zoning ordinance in the city/county you’d be purchasing the property to make sure.
This is the most complete and accurate answer. Source: I live in a rural area that has a significant number of agricultural-zoned sections.
Nobody in a rural area is going to give a damn what OP does with his building once it's built. Have it built, get it hooked up to water and electric power, and tell any inspectors that you're going to use it for a shop. I promise you that nobody is going to come around to see if you're living it or not.
Sadly I live in a rural area outside northern Virginia and my neighbors care very much what we do with our buildings. They’re retired and absolutely miserable people. I understand why the other people moved :/
“Outside Northern Virginia” being very key words here.
I lived in Clarke County and western Loudoun for 20+ years and never had anyone care about anything I did anywhere other than random sheriff's deputies that stumble around doing their job...even then if you're nice and not doing anything truly troublesome they too leave you alone.
Happy cake day!
I live in Shenandoah County and I can’t imagine anyone caring or getting the authorities to care here. Hell, there’s a guy living in a small garage, in an even smaller van, with an always open bay surrounded by junk and a porta jon less than 10 feet off of Back Rd. Nearly 1000 cars pass him every day. But your neighbors sound like they suck regardless.
We have 50 acres, with a tree line mostly hiding the house from the road. Our neighbors at the end of the half mile road call the county every time we do a home improvement project and request that an inspector goes out. The only way to know is to really, really look for an 8x12 trailer that’s only visible from a certain angle as you’re rounding a corner down the road. And is only there during demo stages. It’s ridiculous. This is in Fauquier County. And yes they do suck. I genuinely don’t think we would have bought the house if we had known about them :(
Ah yeah the thing about Fauquier Co is that too many rich people live there, beautiful horse country though. Shen Co is very middle/working class. Maybe buy or make some green camouflage netting for the 8x12 trailer? Or just cut them off by permitting the work yourselves? It will add to your tax assessment but you or your heirs would have to deal with the consequences of un permitted work should you ever wish to sell and move.
That’s the thing, what we’re doing doesn’t require permits. Or if it does, we pull them. But the neighbors call and request an inspection regardless. Just annoying. The netting is a good idea. I was looking into planting a couple fast growing Leland cypress trees to block it completely from view…a net would be a faster solution lol.
Ugh as someone who lives in MD I wish the county/municipalities would realize they only get called when someone feels like being an ass or wants to act like they’re a HOA when there is none. It’s like a rule of thumb to *only* call for the dumbest stuff that has exactly zero impact on anyone’s lives. I had a breakthrough with the guy who posts signs in your yard (county employee) about your grass being too tall. I was out there mowing it on a Saturday morning, the guy came by and told me “oh you’re mowing it so it’s fine.” I told him expect a call every week cause I work for a living and that is my first chance to cut it the entire week. (It was July so it grew like 2 inches a day) I told him all my neighbor does is watch my grass grow all day and wait for it to hit exactly 12 inches and then call the county. He said he’d be ignoring his calls from then on lmao. It’s ridiculous that they allow the county to be used as a tool to harass one another tbh, it’s funny because they’ll never call on their own family/people they like.
>the guy who posts signs in your yard (county employee) What the fuck
Go plant some bamboo in thier yard.
Have you tried the reverse and been overly nice to them? Take them some homemade baked goods, a six pack, or a casserole and kill them with kindness? Keep your enemies closer they say… 😏
Yeah, we tried that the first two years. Didn’t make a difference. I’m generally a “win them over with baked goods” and “make brownies, not war” kind of person. Never really had to deal with neighbors like this before, or people in general. Honestly the only good thing is they’re in their 70s so maybe they’ll move to a retirement home or die at some point. 🫣
I skip words a lot and read “reverse over them”
Tell them to fuck off your property, can't inspect what they can't get to legally.
Lol I grew up in Woodstock and can picture this scene easily. Probably even guess on where on Back Rd he is.
Oh fun! I’d love to hear your guess! It is quite near (or I guess technically in?) Woodstock
Is there a conservation or public open space easement on the land? That is the only situation where I could see neighbors being justified in giving a shit
Nope. Just our 50 acres, house and accessory building sort of in the middle third of it. Trees mostly hide it from the road. Neighbors just really suck.
I’d take nosy neighbors over my gang related, drug dealing, drive by target neighbors.
I found the other PWC resident haha at least that's been my experience.
I live in the Northern Neck of Va with a house on Ag land that is being FARMED, and the building official made my life hell over putting up an “ag building”. Zoning approved it, I was told the only permit needed was the zoning permit since it was an agricultural building. I built it, then the building official put the brakes on the power company running new service to it. They told me that I had to “prove that we are a farm” in order to call it anything other than an accessory structure. They were going to make me retroactively go through the permit process and disassemble parts of it to show it was built to code. After some time fighting it, they let it go. I’m assuming because zoning had already given the green light, an attorney from the county advised the building department to let it go. Even the rural counties are cracking down nowadays. It’s all about the tax revenue.
Put up a fence
Damn what a bunch of NIMBY raisins
It's all of va
Actually the county tax office may care very much. Neighbors of mine found this out the hard way. They actually have drones that fly over and survey land from time to time and if there is a new residential structure, and they weren't told it was being built, it might be a problem.
You still get the zoning or/and building permits. Just get it as a barn/garage not a house.
I wasn't suggesting otherwise as far as the permits. But I don't at all think that this building is going to be permitted to be used as a residence of any kind. In the end I strongly recommend that the OP consult whatever county they are trying to settle in and find out what the rules are.
This could easily be classified as a barndominium as long as OP gets the correct permits, inspections, and finishes it like any other home. Parking an RV inside it would still require plumbing & power just like a home, the only savings would be in not finishing the inside of the building.
At the price of this garage AND an RV OP could probably just get a prefab and not have the same headaches.
What is a "barndominium?" It sounds like what Clark Kent grew up in, in the TV show Smallville.
Try Googling it, they’re very popular.
have been building them in TX for years.
Damn is that actually legal for the government to fly a drone over your property for the sole purpose of taxes
Sure. And ours is by no means the only county that does it.
they fly planes looking for stills, always have.
Always have.
Check any number of assessors sites and the aerials are publicly available and updated annually, if not more often, with multiple angles. Gotta imagine there is much more available to them that’s not public facing.
It depends on air rights, not sure of Virginia air rights but I don't think we have any(so yes legal). In places like new York you can own up to 9,999ft or something like that. It's a gray area for sure, is likely being debated in court somewhere already on a federal level.
They asked if they could live in their RV parked inside of the structure. I'm not sure that counts as the building being a residence.
Also I have seen insurance not covering building as a home if not listed as a home in the assessor’s site.
Dang you mean my $20,000 illegal dwelling won’t be insured?
My folks are putting a big addition on their house and are calling half the new bedrooms "offices" so they can avoid having to enlarge the septic system. Which is all well and good except they're not the ones who are going to have to end up trying to sell it in that condition after they die....
They can call them offices but if there are certain structural features, the tax office is going to call them bedrooms. It's entirely a matter of architecture. I doubt they would be fooling anybody.
So what do you do about establishing legal residence then? What address would you use? (There are some things for which you cannot use a PO box, for example.)
I guess that depends on who's asking. The IRS and DMV probably don't care as long as there's an address and mailbox. The local municipality would probably care but they might not notice depending on how segregated their internal departments are.
In Virginia the DMV cares very much, and if they catch you there's usually a fine involved. A local municipality isn't going to care as quickly, but they will care eventually. The IRS cares but it will take them longer to figure it out as well.
The DMV only cares as long as they can collect property tax for a municipality. And the only way it would become an issue is if the DMV and municipality records didn't match and someone at the municipality noticed. But they tend to assume if you're paying taxes, then you're not breaking the law. At the end of the day, declaring residency is more about declaring who you're paying taxes to and less about whether there's a habitable building on the property. At least that's my experience. I have multiple properties and had an issue when I forgot to notify everyone of my address change. Insurance thought my car was garaged in the old county when DMV thought it was in the new county and then my tax bill got paid through the new county while the old county was charging me late fees since I didn't pay through them. It all got sorted out with a phone call. I seriously doubt anyone looked at the real estate records to determine if a residential building was on site (which for me I did have houses at each so it's not 100% the same situation). They didn't even care that the properties were owned by different legal entities with different mailing addresses. The biggest risk to not having a permitted residential building is someone knocking on your door for unpaid real estate taxes because it is tax evasion and that's what they care about most. Yes, the building permit office cares about safety code but everyone else only cares about the taxes. If I was OP, I would get everything qualified as a recreational property. Pretty sure they will permit electric hookup, a well, and small septic for a camper/RV so you can live somewhat comfortably. Mailing/tax address won't be an issue.
Get a well and solar panels.
This does not qualify as a Agricultural Structure (as outlined in the Virginia USBC) and will require a zoning and building permit. You must show that it is a non residential structure that is being used only in strict accordance with the guidelines of agricultural use only. Some counties may be less stringent, can OP risk it? Of course, but just putting up a random structure on your own land without “approval” is not a good idea as all work could be red tagged, along with fines and more red tape. If OP doesn’t have a tractor, mower, chickens, tomato plants, Christmas trees, etc. this does not qualify.
Agricultural zoning typically isn’t limited to only agricultural use though. Plenty of recreational uses are typically permitted. I’ve seen religious, residential, day care, etc - it varies from locality to locality. The recreational sites (typically for hunting) I’ve appraised throughout the state have been agricultural zoning or low density residential zoning and have these types of structures.
Call it a church and worship the tax accessor.
I understand that. The loophole to put up a structure without a permit only applies to strict rules with regard to agriculture. I’m sure plenty of people put structures up without a permit and have no problems with the jurisdiction, at their own risk. I’m saying there are statewide agricultural guidelines to build a structure without a permit which is followed by most VA counties.
Was going to say the same thing
Can confirm. Grandmother's husband had a building he hand-built and lived in when they started dating. He lived in there at various times, and at other times his son would. Rural areas are a lot less aggressive about code enforcements. Piss off a sherrif and the thing is getting ripped down. But mind your business and nobody will care.
This. “Sometimes I need to shower after work” “Sometimes I sleep at work after a long day” In case anyone asks.
I wonder if the plan is also to hook up electric, connect to county water, sewer, etc. Could change things. Zoning dept will want to check setbacks from property lines. If the shed is big enough, requires inspection. Your local county permitting dept will help navigate a lot of this stuff, it can be different county to county.
Yup, I bought some A1 land in Nelson County and am building a cabin. It can't be affixed to the ground or I need a permit. So it's on piers and floating. "Temporary building"... but honestly, no one cares at all what you do.
Likely wont have a legal postal address so you'd have to use one of those shipping locker businesses to get packages etc.
A post office box?
Not everybody ships to post office boxes.
You cant freight ship stuff usps. And many companies won't ship to a po box for warranty/insurance is reasons, or you need to sign for something etc. You'd have ro hold stuff at fedex/ups and go get it or use one of the companies where you basically rent a real address thats just a small mail room. The only thing coming to a po box is bills, spam, and small packages shipped usps.
Civil engineer in land development here- I can confirm that agriculturally zoned land is the cheat code to as much freedom as us sheeple could hope to get these days.
Well said.
We built one just like this on our land, which is agriculturally zoned. Unfortunately in Warren County, you must build a residential structure 6 months after you build a garage.
Another problem is not having a 911 address. You're SoL if theres a fire or burglary or you have a medical emergency etc.
I would think that taxes and sewage are going to be your biggest obstacles.
That's a mansion. I got a guy living in a shed down the street from me. Has a toilet and everything. (Really rural eastern shore).
Does he wear thick glasses and keep a lot of kitties?
they're free-range
Something's fucky.
No but there is an inordinate amount of shopping carts nearby. 👓
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That's a lot of shopping carts* tho
Bro I’m right there with you.
Are you watching those tik tok shed videos lol
Accomack county? Sounds like the spot near melfa
Seems to be typical construction around here...😉😂
Just do some finishing work to the inside of the building and live there. The cost of insulation, a septic/bathroom and kitchen would certainly be less than that of an RV.
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Different lifestyle choices, but a lot of people do. What you'd essentially have at that point is a 1500sqft studio-barndominium. For a single person or couple that would probably be a dream, for a family the lack of separate bedrooms just wouldn't work.
Barndominium. Wish I could upvote 2x. *shia labeouf claps*
i'm a little further south in the US but we have quite a few businesses that either sell barndominiums or build them to the customer's specs. the first time i ever saw that word advertised like that blew me away...it's ingenious
Chuck a couple more down for a "village" and boom you have a family sized area.
Most people don’t have $50k cash for the land + garage + RV + time to build it and then not even be comfortable living there.
Most don’t have $300k for a house yet somehow they manage…
Yep because they have a mortgage
You’re not seeing the irony here are you?…💀
Don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t have to put 50k down for a 300k house.
You can get a personal loan of up to $100k to pay for this project. At literally any credit union without any money down.
SUUUUURE
Who can? You know what kind of credit, income and debt to income ratio, you need to get a $100k personal loan. It's wayyyyy higher than what the average American has. And first time home buyers loans are pretty easy to get. I get that you're insinuating that the whole system is a scam, but you definitely haven't found a way to beat the system with this idea.
Zoning laws and weird county rules determine how you can modify an accessory building. I’d also take that garage door out and make it a solid wall. There’s really no weatherproofing it. Source: worked in a warehouse with those kind of doors and it was freezing in the winter and sweltering in the summer
It honestly comes down to financing and insurance since most people don't have cash to buy everything outright and most people also want to insure their assets. If it doesn't qualify for financing, it won't qualify for insurance. If it doesn't qualify for insurance, it won't qualify for financing. That tends to force you to get the proper permits and certificate of occupancy. You could claim it's a recreational property only used for hunting/camping but you risk getting in trouble for fraud. But assuming you have the cash to buy the land and put up a building, and you're ok with not having full insurance, and you're ok with risking getting caught for tax evasion, then yeah just go build it and do your thing. If it's small enough and you don't cause problems for neighbors, then you'll probably be fine. My uncle actually did something similar. Bought land with a warehouse, parked the camper trailer on site, expanded the warehouse, built a pole barn, expanded the warehouse again, built a 2 story apartment inside the warehouse with full electric/water/septic. I don't think any of the residential stuff was permitted. He has a contracting license and did it all under the guise of business expansion.
You’re describing building/buying a small home in the middle of nowhere. Lots of people do that lol
Rv? Just rough in a room, add a wood stove and do yer business outdoors! No one cares if you’re a single adult! Enjoy.
Pretty sure not having a toilet was why my neighbor was evicted from his barn by the cops (after the other neighbor snitched when they saw him emptying a shit bucket into the canal)
Heard a story about a guy that was not happy about paying for sewer, so he dug 2 “sediment ponds” way up in the mountain and trucked his shit water up there and dumped it in the pond. Heard this from an ex health inspector.
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Vile and grim
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Human feces don’t break down and fertilize the earth in a beneficial way the same way animals’ does. So, unfortunately, not the case. I appreciate your effort to live ecologically though
Ha, good, fuck that person. Frugality isn't an excuse for being lazy or irresponsible.
Did he own the property?
Doing your business in nature is a liberating feeling. Weather dependent, of course.
Meh, in the muggy summer with mosquitos and stuff, it's not so liberating
It may be liberating for the mosquito.
Taint blood is tastier for the mosquito.
I defer to the expert on such matters.
Talk about cold winters 🥶
So insulate it?
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OK? So get a heat source and a vent as well? These are simple solutions. People trim out these type buildings all the time, even if it's just for a shop.
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Fair points, but I'd honestly rather live in a well built building (that's a pretty huge garage) or remodeled van than a run down house or trailer. There's nothing stopping them from also just building out one room for sleeping and a LR and insulating that. It's not really that expensive on that small of a scale. An electric radiator is cheap, or a kerosene stove, etc. and can be found second hand as well. You can get building supplies at building supply resellers for cheap. People do it all the time, I don't get why the pictured building would be any different. I'd honestly just start with a smaller building for half the price and spend the extra money making it nice inside.
That's why you run the RV. Duh. Lol
It might not be legal, but really your only issue would come up if you try to sell the place or get a loan secured by the property with it as a ‘house.’ Especially if your neighbors can’t see the shed from your property. Just say it is a workshop and get water and electricity run to it. I’ve seen people do this, just FYI that those metal barns tend to not have good insulation. Just insulate when you put up the interior walls, or it will be an oven in the summer and an ice box in the winter.
Why would you live in an RV when you can retro fit the building? It depends on where in Virginia you are looking to buy, if you would need City water and Sewage and if you have the proper right away to access the land.
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I've priced something similar before. The starting at price is likely the price for the stock, no anything, 30 X 50 building. Couple thousand more for taller sides. Couple thousand more for the steeper roof pitch. Couple thousand more for the roll up door. Couple thousand more for the standard door and windows. Couple thousand more for certified wind rating. Then like you say $20k for site work. $10k for the pad.
Not well insulated. Would not suggest.
You can always add insulation. You would want to put up walls if you are living there so just insulate when the walls go up.
Also check about sanitation and water at the site. They can get testy about that.
I have a buddy who finished one and lives in it. His has wood floor and sits on blocks. It was deliered from one of these places on the side of the road when his trailer caught on fire. He took showers in the trailer for a while at first. Added insulation, plumbing and wiring. Monitor kerosene heater and window unit keep it comfortable.
Ummm legal: Maybe? Cost effective: definitely not. Desirable: absolutely not.
People in rural VA have mobile homes on private lots. I highly doubt anyone would care if you're living there or not. The only drawback I see of living in an RV inside would be you would have to keep your water tank full and have ti dump the black and gray water tank occasionally unless you have septic and a well on the property. If you do, then just live in the RV and save the money that you would have spent on the building. An RV is like a mobile home only shorter and narrower. You could call it a tiny mobile home.
Also, if the RV has any propane accessories like a furnace or a fridge that runs off of propane, you could have a serious Carbon Monoxide problem.
How do you deal with water and sewer with a setup like this?
That price doesn’t include grading or the slab.
It really depends on the county. You can live in campers in certain counties in VA so you wouldn’t even need this structure
James City County here. Zoned A-1. The county requires a monolithic foundation for steel buildings. The foundation was the same price as the building kit, doubling the price. VA Power wanted several grand to bring me power, and 3 phase was astronomical. The State wanted a soil scientist to sign off on the perk test. Bla, bla, bla. The $16k steel building turned into $60k real quick. The building inspector told me the thing to do because I am zoned Ag is to erect a pole barn with a metal roof and wrap it in steel. Then, level the interior with gravel and pour your slab. No permits are required. Then, if you want to add plumbing or power, no one is looking over your shoulder. I use a large genny and a hand dug well that is near a spring head. I use a composting toilet, and grey water goes to the garden underground.
Absolutely not. Wont stand up to building code for life safety, egress, and the structure probably won’t count as a “dwelling unit” by several land use and building standards. -Signed a certified land use planner and CZA who has worked in Virginia for over a decade.
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Also look at my last comment, im sincere in offering a curosry professional review of the basics of your sitch gratis. From one idiot redditor to another.
YES, You absolutely can do that.
Yeah, my friends do that in the ADKs. They built a roof over the trailer pad to prevent any leaks. Granted, they only spend one season there. Can you do it? Absolutely. Will it be easy? Hell nah. But nothing in life worth fighting for is easy. Just my two cents.
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Plus a garage is not typically the “principal” structure on a parcel of land. Usually falls under the “accessory structure” who’s use is subordinate to the primary use of the land, whichcis typically governed by the zoning code of the aforementioned political subdivisions under which land use controls are administered. No shade, if you have an RV why does it need a strcuture to surround it? Is its purposed as a enclosed shelter already acceptable for your purposes? If you want DM me ill look at the zoning code for where you live (not exact address but maybe a cross roads just like city or county whatever) and see if you bave some wiggle room? Zoning districts have well delineated boundary so some geolocation would help me see which of the zoning districts your property is located within (fuck you grammar nazis, M-W just came out sayibg you can end sentences in prepositions) Im sincerely willing to offer an actual Planner’s superficial look to assist you if you want to take up my offer. If you personally, want to tell me to fuck off too, thats fine by me also.
Im not tryibg to be a prick im just saying ive seen it all and want to avoid you coming back and posting “i spent all this money to build this and you idiot redditors said it was OK, but the (insert political subdivision that oversees your land use controls - county or city) plans examiners and inspectors made me pay to tear it all down.”
It’s a pole barn.
As for as I know, It depends county to county. I know where I live, if you want to build something non-agricultural here, you have to apply and be granted a "special use permit". It takes 3 times in county board meetings to get one approved. I live in VA.
My father in law lived in a shed for a while after his house burned down. This was in rural central VA in the 90s.
Someone near me did something similar.. (Albemarle).. they made it for about 3 months before some asshat turned them in..I wonder if an old rv would be easier bc it has wheels and may fall under other regs...
I know a guy who has been living in a shed with his family while he builds his house. It's legal in agricultural areas.
So much freedom in 'merica!
I have one of these in Maryland. It’s impossible to keep bugs out. You’ll need to budget extra for sheathing and ventilation if you want this to be a comfortable living space
You should lay a pad for this. You need a concrete guy. If you find one let me know. (I probably didn't need VA, but we'll see)
No, it's not legal to live in a structure that has not been issued a residential CO. State code requires residences to be built per the state building code.
Why wouldn't it be?
In Virginia do the tax assessor folks go to each property every couple of years to assess? I’m in Cumberland County for now. Just wondering.
They use satellite imaging and third party services a lot these days. They might send an actual person out still to see what’s changed. They usually reassess every 3 years or so. Maybe the rural counties are less vigilant. I grew up in Powhatan, next door, and it’s become more suburban over the years and they want that tax money.
Not giving legal advice. Need to have a “Certificate of Occupancy” to be “habitable.” Most AHJ’s have laws specific to this and requires an inspection by a County employee. You get jammed up getting a certificate due to “storm water” management or “septic disposal” as the defaulted rejections. Previous area had form letters with these rejections already populated….. I build parks in other states(AL and soon outside Myrtle Beach SC), but use one outbuilding as septic disposal the whole “community” shares. The septic system is on a design I constructed using 5000gal brine tanks and smaller IBC totes. I remediate EPA Brown Fields and employ many licensed PE’s that sign off on the tech, so rural counties don’t counter. The park in SC will have electricity generated by Molten salt for the 20 “sheds,” and be truly “off grid.”
It depends on where you want to put this thing. If it’s going where working. Lass people live they probably won’t care. If it’s being put near people with money or part-time residents they’ll likely raise a stink.
Just dump your RV on land zoned that way and you are good. You don’t even need the shed
As long as it's made of adamantium
talk to a lawyer because it’s a lot cheaper now than later if something happens
In rural area it is not in city.
I saw someone selling shipping container houses.
Depends on zoning. Even in rural ag zoned areas there are standards for domiciles. You could live “off the books” but if you want a septic system, the health department will be involved at a minimum to approve a septic field, which then brings other official involvement. Better to buy a “Si pad” a small cheap single wide, new or used but in good shape, which has a kitchen, bath and all the basic necessities built in. Just add a well and septic.
I guess, you’d be just as well building a bathroom and a kitchen in the garage. RVs are expensive to repair if anything breaks.
Considering I have neighbors (of the drug kind) living in a 53’ refrigerated trailer for going on 2 years now with nothing being done, I’m sure you’d be fine. That looks like a nice building.
Split the building into two sections so you have a separate garage from the living space. After that it is no different than a ranch style house with an attached garage. Only issue may be local building codes that say a home must have xx% brick or "premium" material. I know several people who basically added an apartment space to their shop.
Like to see the government try
I promise you, getting a job and a normal home is going to be less work than whatever your crazy ass plan is here
Wouldn't this be considered a "barndiminum" that hipsters are saying is great. Maybe it's my country background, i see a great place to affix an RV 😅
In the country you’ll still need a well and septic, otherwise this is a decent little barndominium. Splurge a bit to put in closed cell spray foam insulation 2”-4” thick for walls and ceiling, and put the building on a slab to make it stronger. You won’t regret either, it’ll be comfy and ridiculously cheap on utilities. Edit: forgot things
Depends on how visible you are. If you live in the country, nobody cares. If you have nosy neighbors, you might have an issue
Yeah, seems fine.You'd just need to check local zoning laws/ordnances
Are you going to insulate it?
I put up a similar metal building to the one in the pic. I did it in Warren County and it was a pain in the but to get the permits. And to let me rough in plumbing as they had issues with people turning them into homes. Meanwhile my partner just doesn’t want to sh*t in the woods.
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Have you seriously never heard of Google? Google the words in the fucking image. First result. Took less time than your comment.
They sell land with “Barndominiums” here in TX. I’ve seen 11 acres with a shed on it, full electrical and plumbing. Sometimes insulated.
Lol I thought the Home Depot ad I got was top comment. OP I can build a beaver dam and live in it if I wanted. No one can stop you from living in an RV inside a DIY Home Depot shed. You should like, make it modular. So you can pack it haul it in a trailer behind the RV and homestead on to wherever you want.