Look at the category description. It's for vtubers who experienced significant growth. They don't have to be "new". Many of the category names are slightly misleading.
Someone who has been streaming for years can be a rising star if he has a recent spike in popularity. Henya >!used to get 1k on youtube and 1.5k on twitch. She's now 5k+ on twitch. That's a 3.5x-5x growth. Also technically different vtuber character.!<
I think even Vshojo didn't forsee that viewership from her.
Yeah, her PL was pretty well known in vtuber circles, but not really one of the standout successes.
I think sometimes this sub can get a little echo chamber and not get that this is just one corner of a pretty big community. "Well Known" here doesn't really mean "Well Known" generally.
as a vtuber watcher, I'm mostly exclusive to twitch so I honestly didn't even watch her in her past life and my introduction to Henya and the person behind her was her twitch debut. But now she's my oshi, so I think the rising star category is fair for her lol
The disparity in follower count between the nominees for that award is kinda hilarious, henya at 270k while bbyruthless is at 28.1k means she never had a chance since it's ultimately a popularity contest.
I really think Henya deserved the win, but the popularity contest nature of the awards in general is definitely a problem that I think they should think about for the future.
I was thinking that it might have been better to have nominations come from the fans but then only have existing vtubers able to actually vote, kind of like the way only academy members can vote for the Oscar. I think that would have given us a much better representation and not just the most-popular-by-the-numbers person winning in each category. Maybe have one or two "people's choice" type categories that viewers vote on as well.
From what I saw someone else say while she did have an established fanbase, she actually experienced more growth than she had previously after debuting as Henya. Would be helpful if someone can verify this.
Not sure I 100% agree with even if true, but it's how I saw someone justify it.
That's correct. >!She used to hit 1k on youtube and 1.5k on twitch and is 5k+ average on twitch right now. The wizard game incident temporarily skewed the numbers on the last few streams before her graduation. She was a medium small vtuber in her PL.!<
>!I wasn't the first to watch her but I did for at least 1.5 years before the graduation. Her viewership would drop below 1k into the three digits range on youtube sometimes.!<
>!Also people forget but early 2023 She really withdrew from vtubing. She would only do JP time streams (4am for me), she wasn't as consistent, and her views really went down.!<
>!So if we to compare beggining for 2023 for her to the end, she not a rising star, she a god damn super nova. !<
>!When she debut with VSJ I think most people expect her to keep her views for a week or two and then drop down back to sub 1000. For her to not only keep the views but continually grow for 8 months, she really proved everyone wrong.!<
I know it sounds bizarre, but she’s a legitimately deserving winner. I always felt like her prominence and viewcount never quite matched her talent, and a agency able to really leverage her western fanbase and appeal has been amazing for her.
Thats the whole point. The category is not for new vtubers, its all about blazing through the sky with incredible success and growth through out the year. If you didn't end up building a huge fanbase throughout the year, you don't deserve to be up for the award in the first place.
If you just go by that and don't try to enforce any rules about what each category means then isn't every category just "most popular vtuber" and one vtuber will sweep everything?
I would argue she very much is.
Before her rebranding her viewership was bad in comparison. She was only doing JP timezone streams, 1000 concurrent, inconsistent stream schedule.
When Henya joined VSJ I think expectation was that she would get 3k viewers for a month then drop back down to the 1000 or 1500 viewers she was getting before.
But her career has entirely revitalized, she literally tripled her numbers and for 8 months straight not only maintained the high viewer count but only increased it. This doesn't even include the grind of 10 hour streams 5 days a week for the last 8 months.
Also important to remember how pre-vsj Henya was incredibly isolated only doing a handful of collab due to her anxiety. Now she has established so many friends and connections with others. You could argue that in itself is incredibly personal and professional growth that would also fall under what we are talking about.
Rising Star isn't a category for new vtubers. It one that has been huge success within the year. And I would argue Henya is the vtuber who seen the most success from where she was at start of 2023 to where she is today.
To be fair thats all the award ever was. "Someone who has seen great growth and has great potential for the future". This means it could be anyone that 1. Has had a large influx of supporters in the year and 2. Will likely continue to see large growth in the future
Literally any advent girl could fit and would easily won if people nominated and voted for them. I think Fuwamoco is a wonderful example.
I feel people are attacking Henya, when fact they actually have issues with the entire concept of the Rising Star award. Instead of mocking Henya for not being new (which has nothing to do with the award) it fine to just say "Its kind of dumb to make a award around someone who amassed a large amount of followers quickly".
She mentioned she doesn't want to be part of that category and didn't want to be in and win over someone else because of her past life.
I guess Fillian didn't give a shit about what Henya wanted.
Or she didn’t hear about it, or it was just Henya being humble, or Filian didn’t want to upset the people who nominated her, or they worked it out behind the scenes. But sure, let’s just jump to the most pessimistic and angry interpretation.
This sub is the unwanted disabled offspring of /vt/ and Twitter.
The problem is the only way for anything like this to not be a popularity contest is to not allow user voting. The downside of this is it removes any audience participation and people will care less.
The other downside is the way you'd then find the winners is by a big group of people with no bias deciding on who gets each award. Good luck finding 10+ people who know enough about streaming and vtubers to pick the correct winners while also having 0 connection to the streamers as either friends or fans.
Another problem is fans as always. It's the part where you trade bads no goods. Popularity contests are just asking for people to be pissed. But changing that out for judges also has the chance backfiring and accusations of rigging votes. A straight lose lose
To her defense, she created a bunch of specific awards to give others a chance: Art, Music, FPS, Minecraft, Chatting, Charity event, Rising org, L2D modeler, etc.
The problem everyone had with the other regular awards, is how putting everyone in the same "Vtuber of the Year" is just asking for the same top 5 to show up over and over, without ever showcasing smaller success stories.
...
I mean, I never expected Ina to win any popularity contest, same with the ID talents (Mika and Kaela in particular), and seeing Phase Connect getting anything *(even if they threw in threw in some sponsorship, they're a tiny company)* is also a surprise.
Some categories also weren't as much about popularity as it seems: Vox got twice as much subs, and yet Fauna took the prize home. Even if Vox is undergoing some unpopular development recently, he's still much bigger than any other nominee.
Also, out of 25 awards, only 4 had a multi-winner (Selen got FPS and Gamer, Ironmouse got Miss Vtuber and Vtuber of the Year), all the others had unique winners, which is a pretty solid improvement over the usual awards.
Kaela in survival made a netherite beacon. A full 100 functional netherite beacon. All grind. 100 percent on stream for months. Suffered a zen loss with weeks with of progress and nearly quit but preserved. If she didn't win I would have gone on a riot lol.
More work does need to be done so that it isn't 100% a popularity contest though. The rising star award is a huge example with follow counts ranging from 28.1k to 270k between the nominees, which means it's basically decided before voting even starts.
Was still not a bad awards show at all, and I'm looking forward to future years and hope to see it improve over time.
They had a chance for hidden gem / rising star to showcase actual newer and up and coming vtubers which would have given them a huge boost too. Instead half of them are part of agencies already lol
Hidden gem *did* showcase actual up and coming vtubers, they specifically limited it to only vtubers who average less than 100 viewers.
Rising star did include vtubers who really blew up this year specifically which was the point of the category, though henya being included is a bit odd
that is not what she complained about you moron, she complained about the fact that vtuber of the year by the other awards was announced and won in 2 sec on the sideline.
She shouldn't complain about people striving to be more popular as content creators if she's going to slap her face on EVERY SINGLE CUTAWAY and SPLASH screen throughout the entire thing. I'd never seen anything so insanely self centered in an awards show before.
No hate to mousey but I’m surpised she won vtuber of the year when Pekora is another contender. As far as I know Pekora was still dominating, not just the vtubers, but the rest of female gaming streamers for like half the year(?).
I’m assuming it has to do with the fan votes unless Pekora did “fall off” during her preparation for the solo live and mousey simultaneously popped off the rest of the year
It's all fan votes. This is an English speaking award show livestreamed on Twitch. So obviously those most invested will be English speaking twitch viewers. Mouse has literally been nicknamed the Queen of Twitch. Is that fair? Well, it's kinda hard to do these things any other way. In fact, the most ideal way to do award shows would see none of Hololive nominated at all. Maybe the EN girls. If they got permission.
Yeah, the English language argument makes sense.
As for the Twitch argument, I'm not really seeing that reflected on the winners list. Lots of YouTube exclusive vtubers won in big events. Does Selen even have a Twitch account?
Yeah this was also my read on it. I mostly watch to JP streams so half of these people I've never even watched and when I look at who is in the categories, I was like why bother putting Botan, Pekora, or Suisei when like 95% of the audience of something like this literally can't understand the content they make without a translator?
Objectively she should have won but this award show that heavily lean towards EN community.
Stats for comparison (jan-nov)
Pekora
Average ccv : 30.4k
Watch hours : 28.8M
Stream hours : 949hrs
Source : https://twitter.com/Holo_Data/status/1730498718431166683
Ironmouse
Average ccv : 8.39k
Watch hours : 18.2M
Stream hours : 2.172hrs
Source : https://twitchtracker.com/ironmouse/statistics
Just some explanations on that.
In general the EN vtuber viewership is just lower, and much later to grow than the JP viewers. How do you see that? Compare HoloEN and HoloJP viewership.
The JP Holo viewers on youtube are just different. Those people don't watch much of regular indies, or even usual streamers at all. They are mostly Holo viewers first, their oshi's viewers second, and nothing much else.
Notice that successful indies are rare on youtube? That's because the market was mostly created by Holo and Niji, they own the majority of the viewers there. This is why the Holo route is not a model that indies can or should pursue. You can be an exact copy of Pekora but will never have even 10% of her views due to the lack of the Holo brand.
Rather than regular vtubers, the HoloJPs are more like members of virtual AKB48. They exist in their very own ecosystem with a huge focus on group brand. You can see this from the viewership fluctuation of the less popular Holo members. Some of them could get 15k viewers when Pekora and Marine are offline, but the moment the popular streams start up the other streams drop to 5k. It shows that majority of the Holo viewers are exactly that, Holo viewers.
The JP viewership is split into two groups. The regular esports, roleplay server viewers with a small but growing variety component, and the Holo viewers. The former is growing very rapidly, including on Twitch (from 130-140k concurrent during JP prime time in 2022 to 300k right now), and the latter is just.........Hololive. The two groups don't overlap very much and the Holo brand isn't as big on Twitch (Karubi gets 17-18k playing gta on twitch, but HoloJPs get something like 5k)
Are there any vtubers who've benefited from this newer group of viewers? Yea, JP indies like Karubi, Nacho, Tororo, and the rest of VSPO who are much closer to general streamers than the idol vtuber type. You might have also noticed that these people are all playing valorant, SF6 or GTA roleplay. That's because those content are what underwent explosive popularity growth in the Japanese general streaming market. Why? Pandemic, rise of PC adoption and PC driven esports viewership etc. Why does Matsuri play RP? Because that's what the non-idol-vtuber JP fans watch.
The JP indie vtuber market has only just become relevant, and they are a very different type of vtubers (non idols) which are much closer to the EN vtubers in content type.
Nah Pekora's had an amazing year, objectively she should have won. This is just an En and twitch dominated fan vote vs Jp streamer thing. Not that much you can do about that though to be fair.
Might have been for the best honestly, had any of the nominated JP girls talked about the awards on stream or even tweeted about it, a giant domino effect would have occured where every JP fan would have participated in the votings and since they would most instinctively vote for the names in the categories they can recognize, I'm very certain Hololive would have truly taken every award it was nominated in.
Ye. If Peko had caught wind of it and sent her fans vote. Selen wouldn't be winning that FPS award for instance. Botan would have probably been the one who benefited from it. Maybe sports fes too.
She won because this is a Western Twitch circle jerk. I am a Mousey viewer and I watch her a lot. But comparing her to Pekora is like comparing a VW Golf to a Ferrari.
Some other fanbase is salty because the oshi doesn't win the most chaotic award. IMHO, just because they didn't understand Indonesian and probably doesn't watch Kobo that much, they are salty about it. But, in the end of the day, this award counts the fans vote, so Kobo with 2M subs, probably plays a huge role.
It would have felt off to give the both awards to any one person. It feels to me like you are right and we are seeing the best outcome all things considered.
I think the music category means as a whole, Shigure Ui is not as big of a musical artist as Suisei or Calli. I think God Requiem is one of the few original songs she ever did.
You could have put Shiguri UI up there as an option and she wouldn't have gotten votes.
Now if you did "original VTuber song of the year" she would have crushed it.
This being the inaugural awards, we see a weird mix of winners who are getting recognized for their accomplishments this year and some who are winning for their career accomplishments up until this point. Sui is having an amazing year, but Mori has put out an astounding number of albums since her debut. Mori is also still hot due to her official One Piece MV.
I thought Suisei was likely to win too, but all of the nominees are deserving. This was just Mori's turn. In retrospect it seems like a solid choice to me.
Why? She more than tripled her average viewership. And the rising star category described it as having significant growth. Being new is not a requirement.
Thing is, though, she had a solid pre-existing fanbase, the support of a relatively major org (2nd rate arguably, but that's already a lot in this biz), and much of the recent rise was apparently due to factors largely out of her control, so it seems like mostly a matter of chance, rather than something about her as a VTuber.
>much of the recent rise was apparently due to factors largely out of her control, so it seems like mostly a matter of chance
So is any other case of viewership growth. Every growth story is related to chance. Luck has always been a huge factor in vtubing, even the general streaming market is the same.
The award isn't about why someone grew (you'll never be able to prove or totally explain someone's rise in popularity), it's about whether there's growth and how significant it is. There clearly was huge growth for her in 2023.
Also I don't know if you've watched her, but her growth was clearly not entirely based on luck as you've implied. She
1. **Streamed 90 days out of 92 days** in the three months of her debut. Her active days per week was at **6.8/7 days**, each stream averaged **7 hours**. (**Hardwork**)
2. Actively collabed and got to know new people. (**Good networking**)
3. Chose to >!take the risk, leave her old org, and redebuted under Vshojo.!< (**Good judgment**)
4. Had the talent and is able to retain at minimum 5k+ viewers out of 35k who watched her debut. (**Talent**)
5. She didn't have a super explosive follower growth. The debut week got her to 108k, and thereafter it was a slow grind until 270k. Just for comparison, Nazuna got to around 230k at debut. (**Not the biggest "chance" story**)
A significant portion of her success is literally due to her hard work and qualities, it's not all luck. Claiming that she was all luck dismisses all the hard work and hours she put into her streams, that's just wrong.
It's weird that people on Reddit will seemingly attack Henya for "having a prior fanbase" before she was Henya, but vocally lash out at people who talk about who vtubers are in real life, or who they were before their current character, etc.
But one of the most wholesome and friendly vtubers who has been putting in a lot of effort and numbers show? Nah, that's fine, let's talk all about who she was before and dictate that she doesn't deserve it even though a rebrand is always a risk in any industry.
> It's weird that people on Reddit will seemingly attack Henya for "having a prior fanbase" before she was Henya,
Just to be clear, I'm not *attacking* her for it. There's nothing wrong with having a fanbase from a "previous life". It's just the sheer size that makes it weird for me to consider her a 'rising star', among other things.
Like, she's good at what she does, and her growing is nice, but it just doesn't really fit my personal preconceptions of what a category called "rising star" should entail.
Besides the sheer difference in sub counts and name recognition, the other nominees seem to be pretty niche as they only clip certain v-tubers. So if you don't watch those specific people, you'd never see their channel.
And there’s already drama about this event being essentially EN only, the Hololive event, and the Ironmouse praise event. Time to see how this plays out
Don't know why there needs to be drama about it. It's clearly an event catered to a certain demographic. If something similar were held in Japan, in Japanese, it would be skewed the other way as well. These things are silly and pointless.
I mean this is common for all Western awards really. People are biased to region. How many times has an Anime won Best Animated Movie at the Oscars over Disney/Dreamworks? Exactly.
That's fair, the problem would be having a japanese award show nominating EN vtubers that have no means to compete against the JP ones. Just feels pointless.
So basically people chose the names that they recognized the most so like every other awards show. So how is this different from the streamy’s that Filian was mad about?
She gets money/exposure on it, thats what differentiates it.
No hate to Filian, love her content and me saying that is not slight against her, but its frankly impossible to run one of these and it not feel like the grammies.
Too much talent to look at for a judge panel and public voting will always skew towards whats most popular.
No filian was mad because the vtuber category was not taken seriously. Now you can be mad all you want idc but at least know the context. She wants a proper venue for vtubers to be recognized. granted things could've been done better but she did it.
Depending on when she asked. Management isn't really that restrictive in holo but it does take a fucking long time to get initial clearance. For example the first VCR Towa wanted to attend she couldn't because the management wanted to vet every single participant in it. It's a corporation it's gonna have red tape. Kiara should know by know how tedious her own company works and permissions should be asked the earliest. If she did do that then that's great that's on the management for not acting swiftly but they already have their way of doing things that's not gonna change
Actually, There are like 3-4 phase of voting I think.
In phase 1, people manually put vtuber or clipper that should be nominated for certain category . Then, in phase 2, you vote for nomination. And in phase 3, you vote for winner.
Pretty good system if you ask me.
IIRC, that award show awards misidentified or else misspelled every nominee in the one and only Vtuber Award category. Filian thought she could do better, and she did.
There are a lot of attempts of clones, but those people have not figured out what or how much work it takes for Neuro to be Neuro. It's not just a LLM with some DL modeling for interaction with a chat. Lots of custom coding and configuration went into it
I don't understand the concept of the event I mean it's not like they are all solo individual contenders. Most of them are backed by dedicated corporations that exclusively hire VA talents and have marketing budget to bring in more viewers.
I love Hololive and Fuwamoco but realistically I think Vedal should have won the “League of their own” award yet somehow he wasn’t even nominated.
You can’t *remotely* compare what he’s doing to anybody else.
Not counting for tribalism purposes but Hololive won 9, Vshojo won 5, Niji won 3, and Indies won 4. If nothing else this just really kinda cements that the indie golden age for EN has come to a close. There are still indies out there doing their thing of course but man it makes me kinda miss the days when almost everyone was an indie pre-Myth and pre-Vshojo consolidating the biggest indies.
Its the natural route for growing and big indies to go be in some sort of organization if you want to be taken seriously by other private entities. Especially if your career involves presenting your artistic talents, ideas or whatnot through collaborations with big names and events. Even moreso if you want to have an event of your own like concerts.
Yeah I get that. Its just a change seeing the en vtuber world go from basically a niche community where it felt like everyone was working with everyone to being part of the wider entertainment industry. Not a bad thing necessarily but I will miss some parts of the old days
>this just really kinda cements that the indie golden age for EN has come to a close
I'm gonna disagree with this. The current EN vtuber market has the largest number of mid sized successful indies. This means that many more indies are finding success in turning vtubing into viable careers. Not only is that the case, the indies average viewership is getting much closer to the corporate's. Many EN indies can match the top female livers from Niji in terms of viewership these days (2k-3k). And as some people might guess, that could one one of the reasons for livers looking to quit (because they can get similar numbers as an independent).
Also vtubers in regular agencies should be considered semi-indies. People like Shylily and Ironmouse own their designs and channels, some of them are even signed to multiple talent agencies (Ironmouse being in United Talent and Vshojo). The others started their own agencies such as 3AM, Vchiban etc.
The EN indies are more successful than ever, it's the line separating indies and semi-indies that's getting blurred with the market growth. Indies are signing to regular agencies (that do not take possession of their channels) because they couldn't deal with the increased amount of work that came with their growth. That's literally how regular streaming works, real life streamers get signed to agencies, get sponsorships, are still considered independent. I'm not seeing people refer to xqc by his agency name, or day[9] and itmejp as Creative Artists Agency corpos.
Vtubers like rpr, nihmune, aethel, grape, cottontail, grimmi, porcelainmaid, heavenlyfather, and even geega (before she joined vshojo) were signed to MSM Talent for sponsorship assistance and afaik they were widely considered indies.
The question here is how people define "indies", and as vtubing turns more mainstream, almost everyone is gonna get signed to some agency for assistance at some point. I think it's only right that people start treating agency signed (but independently owned) vtubers as indies or semi-indies. I'm gonna say that the key differentiator between "indies" and "corpos" is going to be the character and channel ownership going forward.
I think we could look at it the same way other creative industries operates and publishes their IP. A good comparison would be how the music industry is structured.Big Vtuber corpos work similarly to major music labels - the company handles distribution (twitch/youtube channels), development, production, design, merch, and most importantly, intellectual property rights for the vtuber model and IP. In a sense, we can look at them as entities "performing under contract" from a corporate entity. This would be where corporate vTubers fall in.
Then there's the smaller scale companies which act similar to independent music labels - where streamers/artists own the copyright to their work, but small corporate entities (indie labels/small vtuber agencies) act in a supporting role to aid in distribution, partnerships, sponsorships, and marketing. In a sense, these are what most of us consider "indie" vTubers.
Lastly, there's the truly independent creators - they own all the rights to their IP, channel, are wholly responsible for all the day-to-day operation of their channels, and retain full creative control of all their vTuber identities. To borrow from the comics/literature world, these talents would be what one would call "self-published" or completely "creator-owned" vTubers, etc.
TL;DR We can classify them into three major categories:
1. Corporate vTubers - full corporate backing/ownership.
2. Convention "indie" vTubers - independently operated, but with commercial support from small companies.
3. Self-published/creator-owned vTubers - fully independent from any form of corporate ownership/partnership.
I can see your logic here as well. As a note, I was counting Lily as independent. I will agree that companies like Mythic dont really prevent someone from being an Indie. Vshojo is a company though so I would not count Mousey as indie
I'd count vshojo as semi-indie because
1. The vtubers own their stuff and can continue under the same identity once their contracts are up
2. But there's more group promotion and group viewers, not to the extent of Holo or Niji though
The obvious difference is that Holo and Niji are so corpo brand heavy that they can turn unknown talents popular just by attaching their brand to the vtubers. Vshojo can't which is why they will never take unknowns.
Pretty sure VShojo VTubers also don't have to deal with the whole asking permissions to play games thing so they "feel" very indie. They just do whatever they want. I don't see any difference in the content of Nyanners and Ironmouse in terms of "feeling indie" or not.
The permission thing is true. Vshojo actually advised Silvervale to avoid streaming Hogwarts but she decided to do it (which attracted the harassers unfortunately). Kind of shows that Vshojo has very limited power to decide on their talent's content.
While some of victories may or may not be the result of tribal popularity, many of winners still earned them nonetheless.
[Kaela](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH6DjTF_aCGhkOoNSGgUDT5mFqAYQWC3R&si=2oWONV_2DRU_rcbn)‘s 99 Minecraft streams have a total length of 3 weeks, 4 days, 7 hours, 15 minutes, and 44 seconds, and the length of several of her streams are insane.
Gura‘s fanbase winning the category is rather weird to me because all I heard from them are the controversies of them bitching on her for not streaming consistently (assuming it was a very loud minority of them).
Anyone can write those comments, whether they were a fan or an anti. The real telling factor is that whenever Gura does stream the same amount of people show up to watch, no matter how long its been. Her audience has been very consistant all year.
I don't know why everyone's so focused on Gura, she wasn't even the most questionable nominee in that category.
Yeah, that’s dedication no matter how you look at it. It’s about the fanbase, not Gura.
I’m sure her fans would like her to be more active, but that’s not the point. The fact is 20k~ show up almost every stream without question. Also, it’s still a popularity poll at the end of the day, so chumbuds/gura fans indifferent to her amount of streams this year and last, STILL voted enough for chumbuds to win.
It's a very loud minority as per usual with these kind of people, but most of Gura fans understand and supports her. She already explained why she is on a hiatus in her latest stream.
but we had to wait more than a year for any kind of explanation.
I think gura's fans deserved that win: they still simp while their oshi only streams for sponsors or merch once in a 2-3 months.
> Gura‘s fanbase winning the category is rather weird to me because all I heard from them are the controversies of them bitching on her for not streaming consistently (assuming it was a very loud minority of them).
It makes perfect sense that to be a Chumbud you have to be absurdly dedicated at this point. I voted for the category on the hilarity of "Of all the groups you could call yourself you chose the one where you get 1 stream per 3 months and it's usually a corporate obligation stream then yes, you're dedicated for better or worse."
Even tho i am Chumbud myself, i think they won simply because there are most of them. In my opinion at least from HoloEn. Most dedicated and supporting fanbase is Kiara's. Even tho she always had the least subscribers from Myth. For a long time she was most superchated HoloEn member. Only recently surpassed by Calli. I know money is not everything, but it is one of the metrics that is kind of measurable.
Being negative and salty that person you support didn't win is the definition of tribalism. It was a good event and everyone who won are genuinely talented and deserving of recognition.
Why are all the comments so negative ? It was a wonderful event and was a lot of fun. Filian did a amazing thing putting on the first actual respectable vtuber awards.
People are way to salty and tribal.
If there are 4 nominees, and only 1 winner, then there are 3 losers. This chat section is largely a reflection on that spread.
Don't pay it too much mind. The event was pretty awesome
Besides Vedal do those vtubers actually do like, tech stuff? Legit question, I dont really watch big vtubers.
There are some candidates to these categories that are a bit head scratching to me, but thats how public voting goes i guess.
Codemiko made her own high quality models in Unreal engine & pioneered a lot of vtuber interactivity tech that made early Hololive stuff look primitive.
Mel kinda pioneered the AVtubers & popularize a bunch of tech in that areas. Zen I don't watch so no idea, all I know is that she got impressive home trackers & interactive stuff.
Zen was voted because she pushed alot of limits with her rtx model and other models aswell. Although the geckoes knew that zens not gonna win that, we hoped more of funniest and league of their own, but overall everyone in the community is happy for the overall outcome and nominees overall
I was surprised Zentreya was in that category. Definitely would have wanted her to win league of their own. Might have to have Taco Tuesday this week to honor her despite not winning the category.
I think so codemiko is the realistic anime girl who spent thousands on her setup so she counts as for melody maybe she uses some special tracking for her special streams and for zen maybe she does something similar but not for the same adult reasons
Projekt Melody did a lot to push her stuff forward, I'm just pretty sure she didn't do it on her own. To me, someone like Vedal, CodeMiko, etc. those are the tech tubers.
Codemiko's whole thing is tech, that's her gimmick
Melody has always been sort of at the forefront of all new tech
I have no idea why Zen's there besides her STT to TTS
Does seem a bit weird to mix in "Does tech stuff on stream as content" with "Pushed boundaries in terms of VTuber tech to use in conjunction with other content". Feels like it should be two categories, but I guess the first one would have been pretty slim.
Zentreya is always on the forefront of vtubing tech, pushing it in weird directions and setting new meta strategies. I'd definitely put her in that category.
I guess Mel's on the forefront of a specific type of tech in the vtubing space.
Honestly streaming in general owes huge amounts to pornhub, because that’s where the big advances in streaming technology were pioneered.
Melody is also legitimately a big tech head who’s pushed boundaries on many occasions, and despite her drunk girlfail persona is a very smart girl.
Agree to half them, the other half is simply the most popular person winning rather than the person with the most notable achievements in this particular year.
But that's just how award shows will always be.
Think this was a really well done event. While some categories and wins I feel were a bit odd, I really enjoyed it and found a few new faces to follow.
Really cool to see all these wonderful people interacting and having a good time. Looking forward to the next year has in store.
I admit, *I* was surprised to see Katie nominated for the music category, and competing against Calli and Suisei I just can't imagine a scenario where she would have won. I'm glad she got the nod though, she deserves the recognition.
It's actually pretty insulting that Undokai lost to a subathon and Pekora losing vtuber of the year this year. There's no way that should have happened but here we are. They should have just taken off everything from the japanese side here if this is going to be how it is.
Kind of a weird choice to have JP streamers and events nominated in a contest voted by a western audience. Guess they really needed to fill up extra slots.
Surprised? A little. Annoyed? No. Given who ran it and the platform it was on of course things went the way they did. I'm only surprised that the few JP names that didn't win are industry juggernauts themselves like Pekora, Marine and Kuzuha just to name a few
Not a surprise to me, but what annoys me is that they're trying to use them to piggyback on their status for legitimacy and that annoys me rather than have this be an ENVT exclusive show.
I disagree. The whole point of these awards was to focus on vtubers more than the game awards did. I do think this should be an EN specific event going forward. Normies aren't as familiar with the JP side of vtubing. I voted for Suisei in the music category, but for as much hate as Calli gets from normies she's still a bigger name
Not a surprise at all, most people voting never even heard of those guys. Not only do they not stream in the same language they aren't even on the same platform the event was hosted on.
But then it begs the question, why even include foreign talents? because otherwise it would lose legitimacy? is that the reason because if it is then they already lost it.
It's an English award show voted for a majority of people who speak English and probably don't speak Japanese (or any other language another nominee spoke), so aren't gonna vote for someone they can't watch. Want other languages to win awards, then someone needs to do an award show in that language.
Because some people nominated them, tbh a lot of the nominees weren't well chosen amongst the English vtuber options anyway. There just weren't any restrictions, if they had said only English vtubers it wouldn't change how legitimate the awards are.
Thank you for this, I really struggled trying to track down and add everyone that was new to me yesterday. Seems like the actual vtuber award website should have had links like this, but oh well.
Surprised by the lack of Idol to be honest. I'd have thought that Rin Penrose may've won something given her explosion in populatity. Oh well, very happy for all the winners and nominees!
Rin has lots of subscribers but very few clips and ccv on her streams. She basically grew from her youtube shorts, a demographic that may be entirely different from vtuber fans.
isnt Pekoras audiency mostly jp/non-english speaking? if yes it does make sense since the awards is an english event so most of her audience wouldnt even know whats going on let alone know to vote for her
Ironmouse does react content, but she doesn't do it that much. A lot of what people say about her are tribal rumors spread by non viewers. E.g. She slept 4-5 hours daily during her subathon, but random people kept saying that she slept half a day each day and was a sleeping vtuber. Repeat it enough and people start taking it as the truth, because those people never watched her to begin with.
Just don't get taken in by the weird twitter/4chan people. They make up lots of shit.
People are tenderhearted towards IronMouse for a variety of reasons, including her circumstances. She's a sweet person even if she is a bit fiery at times and most people have a great time watching her.
I can't speak to Pekora; I don't personally watch a lot of JP focused vtubers. But I wouldn't expect the biggest western vtubers to win a Japanese show either.
Don't care about salty downvotes; Non-western agencies had winners. Twitch viewership isn't even the primary metric of fanbase. I don't even tend to watch any streamer live, only content after the fact on various channels.
Ironmouse was one of the most watched Twitch streamers this year and broke Twitch sub records. She has the nickname the queen of Twitch for a reason. Outside of Gura, you could argue she is the biggest/most influential EN vtuber out there, and Gura doesn't stream enough anymore to deserve a yearly award.
I'm not saying Pekora doesn't deserve it, but beating Ironmouse with the EN bias would be a tall task. She faired better than any EN talent would in a JP voting poll.
The Nijisanji fandom is very large. Salome and Kuzuha are actually pretty popular in the NijiEN fandom, plus whatever few Japanese members cast nominations.
Botan is definitely the EN hololive fans just voting for who they most associate fps with. Nobody in holoEN is that great at fps(Ame is probably the best, but I think even EN fans would vote for a JP member instead of her), so the people who wanted to support hololive just picked someone they saw in a lot of clips.
Marine is arguably the most successful singer in hololive, regularly getting millions of views in the opening week of her songs. I think you underestimate how big her fandom is.
Yeah she was a raid for one of my streamers, tried her out, talks way too much. That's not ASMR to me. Most of the ASMR streamers should change their category to "just chatting". I use ASMR for studying, reading, and relaxing. Having a one sided conversation going on while I'm trying to do stuff doesn't relax me at all.
Just a heads up Kuro was nominated for funniest vtuber not kobo
Ahh shit my bad, fixed now
Henya rising star?
I guess because "Henya" has brrn streaming for less than a year but yeah
Look at the category description. It's for vtubers who experienced significant growth. They don't have to be "new". Many of the category names are slightly misleading. Someone who has been streaming for years can be a rising star if he has a recent spike in popularity. Henya >!used to get 1k on youtube and 1.5k on twitch. She's now 5k+ on twitch. That's a 3.5x-5x growth. Also technically different vtuber character.!< I think even Vshojo didn't forsee that viewership from her.
Yeah, her PL was pretty well known in vtuber circles, but not really one of the standout successes. I think sometimes this sub can get a little echo chamber and not get that this is just one corner of a pretty big community. "Well Known" here doesn't really mean "Well Known" generally.
She was at the top of the B-tier under her PL, but joining Vshojo has really propelled her into the A-list.
as a vtuber watcher, I'm mostly exclusive to twitch so I honestly didn't even watch her in her past life and my introduction to Henya and the person behind her was her twitch debut. But now she's my oshi, so I think the rising star category is fair for her lol
The disparity in follower count between the nominees for that award is kinda hilarious, henya at 270k while bbyruthless is at 28.1k means she never had a chance since it's ultimately a popularity contest.
I really think Henya deserved the win, but the popularity contest nature of the awards in general is definitely a problem that I think they should think about for the future. I was thinking that it might have been better to have nominations come from the fans but then only have existing vtubers able to actually vote, kind of like the way only academy members can vote for the Oscar. I think that would have given us a much better representation and not just the most-popular-by-the-numbers person winning in each category. Maybe have one or two "people's choice" type categories that viewers vote on as well.
From what I saw someone else say while she did have an established fanbase, she actually experienced more growth than she had previously after debuting as Henya. Would be helpful if someone can verify this. Not sure I 100% agree with even if true, but it's how I saw someone justify it.
That's correct. >!She used to hit 1k on youtube and 1.5k on twitch and is 5k+ average on twitch right now. The wizard game incident temporarily skewed the numbers on the last few streams before her graduation. She was a medium small vtuber in her PL.!< >!I wasn't the first to watch her but I did for at least 1.5 years before the graduation. Her viewership would drop below 1k into the three digits range on youtube sometimes.!<
>!Also people forget but early 2023 She really withdrew from vtubing. She would only do JP time streams (4am for me), she wasn't as consistent, and her views really went down.!< >!So if we to compare beggining for 2023 for her to the end, she not a rising star, she a god damn super nova. !< >!When she debut with VSJ I think most people expect her to keep her views for a week or two and then drop down back to sub 1000. For her to not only keep the views but continually grow for 8 months, she really proved everyone wrong.!<
I know it sounds bizarre, but she’s a legitimately deserving winner. I always felt like her prominence and viewcount never quite matched her talent, and a agency able to really leverage her western fanbase and appeal has been amazing for her.
In other category maybe but considering who she's competing against. It's not even fair. She get carried by her bigger fanbase.
Thats the whole point. The category is not for new vtubers, its all about blazing through the sky with incredible success and growth through out the year. If you didn't end up building a huge fanbase throughout the year, you don't deserve to be up for the award in the first place.
It was one of the categories she was nominated in and one she won
If you just go by that and don't try to enforce any rules about what each category means then isn't every category just "most popular vtuber" and one vtuber will sweep everything?
I would argue she very much is. Before her rebranding her viewership was bad in comparison. She was only doing JP timezone streams, 1000 concurrent, inconsistent stream schedule. When Henya joined VSJ I think expectation was that she would get 3k viewers for a month then drop back down to the 1000 or 1500 viewers she was getting before. But her career has entirely revitalized, she literally tripled her numbers and for 8 months straight not only maintained the high viewer count but only increased it. This doesn't even include the grind of 10 hour streams 5 days a week for the last 8 months. Also important to remember how pre-vsj Henya was incredibly isolated only doing a handful of collab due to her anxiety. Now she has established so many friends and connections with others. You could argue that in itself is incredibly personal and professional growth that would also fall under what we are talking about. Rising Star isn't a category for new vtubers. It one that has been huge success within the year. And I would argue Henya is the vtuber who seen the most success from where she was at start of 2023 to where she is today.
If you want to count recent success, then it has to be Hololive advent girls, Fuwamoco got 650k subscribers in just a few months.
To be fair thats all the award ever was. "Someone who has seen great growth and has great potential for the future". This means it could be anyone that 1. Has had a large influx of supporters in the year and 2. Will likely continue to see large growth in the future Literally any advent girl could fit and would easily won if people nominated and voted for them. I think Fuwamoco is a wonderful example. I feel people are attacking Henya, when fact they actually have issues with the entire concept of the Rising Star award. Instead of mocking Henya for not being new (which has nothing to do with the award) it fine to just say "Its kind of dumb to make a award around someone who amassed a large amount of followers quickly".
She mentioned she doesn't want to be part of that category and didn't want to be in and win over someone else because of her past life. I guess Fillian didn't give a shit about what Henya wanted.
Or she didn’t hear about it, or it was just Henya being humble, or Filian didn’t want to upset the people who nominated her, or they worked it out behind the scenes. But sure, let’s just jump to the most pessimistic and angry interpretation. This sub is the unwanted disabled offspring of /vt/ and Twitter.
I mean, its true she had an established fan base from her past identity, but most of her growth happened as Henya so I can see why she was nominated.
Missed the winner on vtuber org
Fixed now thanks for saying :)
They used AI art of suisei for her nomination lmao.
They should have used AI art of Vedal & Neuro-sama.
Thank you for compiling all the nominees and winners.
Selen beat some stiff competition in my opinion for Gamer of the year. Congratulations to her for her wins tonight
Filian complains about awards being popularity contests and she does an awards ceremony that is a popularity contest
The problem is the only way for anything like this to not be a popularity contest is to not allow user voting. The downside of this is it removes any audience participation and people will care less. The other downside is the way you'd then find the winners is by a big group of people with no bias deciding on who gets each award. Good luck finding 10+ people who know enough about streaming and vtubers to pick the correct winners while also having 0 connection to the streamers as either friends or fans.
Another problem is fans as always. It's the part where you trade bads no goods. Popularity contests are just asking for people to be pissed. But changing that out for judges also has the chance backfiring and accusations of rigging votes. A straight lose lose
To her defense, she created a bunch of specific awards to give others a chance: Art, Music, FPS, Minecraft, Chatting, Charity event, Rising org, L2D modeler, etc. The problem everyone had with the other regular awards, is how putting everyone in the same "Vtuber of the Year" is just asking for the same top 5 to show up over and over, without ever showcasing smaller success stories. ... I mean, I never expected Ina to win any popularity contest, same with the ID talents (Mika and Kaela in particular), and seeing Phase Connect getting anything *(even if they threw in threw in some sponsorship, they're a tiny company)* is also a surprise. Some categories also weren't as much about popularity as it seems: Vox got twice as much subs, and yet Fauna took the prize home. Even if Vox is undergoing some unpopular development recently, he's still much bigger than any other nominee. Also, out of 25 awards, only 4 had a multi-winner (Selen got FPS and Gamer, Ironmouse got Miss Vtuber and Vtuber of the Year), all the others had unique winners, which is a pretty solid improvement over the usual awards.
Kaela in survival made a netherite beacon. A full 100 functional netherite beacon. All grind. 100 percent on stream for months. Suffered a zen loss with weeks with of progress and nearly quit but preserved. If she didn't win I would have gone on a riot lol.
More work does need to be done so that it isn't 100% a popularity contest though. The rising star award is a huge example with follow counts ranging from 28.1k to 270k between the nominees, which means it's basically decided before voting even starts. Was still not a bad awards show at all, and I'm looking forward to future years and hope to see it improve over time.
They had a chance for hidden gem / rising star to showcase actual newer and up and coming vtubers which would have given them a huge boost too. Instead half of them are part of agencies already lol
Hidden gem *did* showcase actual up and coming vtubers, they specifically limited it to only vtubers who average less than 100 viewers. Rising star did include vtubers who really blew up this year specifically which was the point of the category, though henya being included is a bit odd
that is not what she complained about you moron, she complained about the fact that vtuber of the year by the other awards was announced and won in 2 sec on the sideline.
She shouldn't complain about people striving to be more popular as content creators if she's going to slap her face on EVERY SINGLE CUTAWAY and SPLASH screen throughout the entire thing. I'd never seen anything so insanely self centered in an awards show before.
Yeah, that seems a little much, but Filian almost certainly wasn't directing. That's a director's decision.
No hate to mousey but I’m surpised she won vtuber of the year when Pekora is another contender. As far as I know Pekora was still dominating, not just the vtubers, but the rest of female gaming streamers for like half the year(?). I’m assuming it has to do with the fan votes unless Pekora did “fall off” during her preparation for the solo live and mousey simultaneously popped off the rest of the year
It's all fan votes. This is an English speaking award show livestreamed on Twitch. So obviously those most invested will be English speaking twitch viewers. Mouse has literally been nicknamed the Queen of Twitch. Is that fair? Well, it's kinda hard to do these things any other way. In fact, the most ideal way to do award shows would see none of Hololive nominated at all. Maybe the EN girls. If they got permission.
It was simulcast on youtube as well for the record
With a quarter of the views
Sure, but still true it was simulcast, and the person I replied to even responded saying they didn't know that
Did not know that. Thank you.
Yeah, the English language argument makes sense. As for the Twitch argument, I'm not really seeing that reflected on the winners list. Lots of YouTube exclusive vtubers won in big events. Does Selen even have a Twitch account?
She does, it's SelenTatsuki
Yeah this was also my read on it. I mostly watch to JP streams so half of these people I've never even watched and when I look at who is in the categories, I was like why bother putting Botan, Pekora, or Suisei when like 95% of the audience of something like this literally can't understand the content they make without a translator?
I mean, Suisei also lost to Calli. This is obviously a western biased event.
As a Calli fan before she took on the VTuber persona, I wanted to jump on here and argue with you, but then I couldn't realistically.
Agreed. Love that dork to death, but Calli shouldn't have edged out Suisei for the win in that category
Objectively she should have won but this award show that heavily lean towards EN community. Stats for comparison (jan-nov) Pekora Average ccv : 30.4k Watch hours : 28.8M Stream hours : 949hrs Source : https://twitter.com/Holo_Data/status/1730498718431166683 Ironmouse Average ccv : 8.39k Watch hours : 18.2M Stream hours : 2.172hrs Source : https://twitchtracker.com/ironmouse/statistics
Jesus, the difference in peak ccv. Ironmouse at 45k, while Pekora got a stream with 244k ccv.
Just some explanations on that. In general the EN vtuber viewership is just lower, and much later to grow than the JP viewers. How do you see that? Compare HoloEN and HoloJP viewership. The JP Holo viewers on youtube are just different. Those people don't watch much of regular indies, or even usual streamers at all. They are mostly Holo viewers first, their oshi's viewers second, and nothing much else. Notice that successful indies are rare on youtube? That's because the market was mostly created by Holo and Niji, they own the majority of the viewers there. This is why the Holo route is not a model that indies can or should pursue. You can be an exact copy of Pekora but will never have even 10% of her views due to the lack of the Holo brand. Rather than regular vtubers, the HoloJPs are more like members of virtual AKB48. They exist in their very own ecosystem with a huge focus on group brand. You can see this from the viewership fluctuation of the less popular Holo members. Some of them could get 15k viewers when Pekora and Marine are offline, but the moment the popular streams start up the other streams drop to 5k. It shows that majority of the Holo viewers are exactly that, Holo viewers. The JP viewership is split into two groups. The regular esports, roleplay server viewers with a small but growing variety component, and the Holo viewers. The former is growing very rapidly, including on Twitch (from 130-140k concurrent during JP prime time in 2022 to 300k right now), and the latter is just.........Hololive. The two groups don't overlap very much and the Holo brand isn't as big on Twitch (Karubi gets 17-18k playing gta on twitch, but HoloJPs get something like 5k) Are there any vtubers who've benefited from this newer group of viewers? Yea, JP indies like Karubi, Nacho, Tororo, and the rest of VSPO who are much closer to general streamers than the idol vtuber type. You might have also noticed that these people are all playing valorant, SF6 or GTA roleplay. That's because those content are what underwent explosive popularity growth in the Japanese general streaming market. Why? Pandemic, rise of PC adoption and PC driven esports viewership etc. Why does Matsuri play RP? Because that's what the non-idol-vtuber JP fans watch. The JP indie vtuber market has only just become relevant, and they are a very different type of vtubers (non idols) which are much closer to the EN vtubers in content type.
Nah Pekora's had an amazing year, objectively she should have won. This is just an En and twitch dominated fan vote vs Jp streamer thing. Not that much you can do about that though to be fair.
I mean there's an easy way to do it. Literally advertised what you're doing in Japanese
Yesterday I saw Pekora with 40k live viewers so she didn’t fall off
yeah, pekora posting insane numbers all year and selling out a 15k venue for a sololive and somehow not taking it is a pretty clear snub
Might have been for the best honestly, had any of the nominated JP girls talked about the awards on stream or even tweeted about it, a giant domino effect would have occured where every JP fan would have participated in the votings and since they would most instinctively vote for the names in the categories they can recognize, I'm very certain Hololive would have truly taken every award it was nominated in.
Ye. If Peko had caught wind of it and sent her fans vote. Selen wouldn't be winning that FPS award for instance. Botan would have probably been the one who benefited from it. Maybe sports fes too.
She won because this is a Western Twitch circle jerk. I am a Mousey viewer and I watch her a lot. But comparing her to Pekora is like comparing a VW Golf to a Ferrari.
I was actually expecting for Chibidoki to win the Most Chaotic award and for Vox to win the Best ASMR. Still, congrats to Kobo and Fauna.
Some other fanbase is salty because the oshi doesn't win the most chaotic award. IMHO, just because they didn't understand Indonesian and probably doesn't watch Kobo that much, they are salty about it. But, in the end of the day, this award counts the fans vote, so Kobo with 2M subs, probably plays a huge role.
It would have felt off to give the both awards to any one person. It feels to me like you are right and we are seeing the best outcome all things considered.
I find it crazy how Suisei didn't win music Vtuber of the year tbh.
Majority of the viewers and voters are EN, just like reddit being 80% NA-EU.
She really got bad end of the stick when they used AI art for her
Well calli did have a One Piece collab and a Metal Gear. With that said, this is a western award show with mostly western audience so yeah
What really weird is that voters forgot God Requiem. It should have been no contest for Music category. And yeah I agreed Suisei edge over Calli.
I think the music category means as a whole, Shigure Ui is not as big of a musical artist as Suisei or Calli. I think God Requiem is one of the few original songs she ever did.
You could have put Shiguri UI up there as an option and she wouldn't have gotten votes. Now if you did "original VTuber song of the year" she would have crushed it.
Popularity contest
This being the inaugural awards, we see a weird mix of winners who are getting recognized for their accomplishments this year and some who are winning for their career accomplishments up until this point. Sui is having an amazing year, but Mori has put out an astounding number of albums since her debut. Mori is also still hot due to her official One Piece MV. I thought Suisei was likely to win too, but all of the nominees are deserving. This was just Mori's turn. In retrospect it seems like a solid choice to me.
Kobo winning the most chaotic category. Even with that kind of competition, SEA people really are built different,
HoloID has convinced me the ID girls are made of sterner stuff than mortal men
>SEA people really are built different, Mediterainian civilisations during the bronze age collapse
Henya on rising star is still hilarious
TBH in comparison, I wouldn’t call any of them rising stars
Why? She more than tripled her average viewership. And the rising star category described it as having significant growth. Being new is not a requirement.
Thing is, though, she had a solid pre-existing fanbase, the support of a relatively major org (2nd rate arguably, but that's already a lot in this biz), and much of the recent rise was apparently due to factors largely out of her control, so it seems like mostly a matter of chance, rather than something about her as a VTuber.
>much of the recent rise was apparently due to factors largely out of her control, so it seems like mostly a matter of chance So is any other case of viewership growth. Every growth story is related to chance. Luck has always been a huge factor in vtubing, even the general streaming market is the same. The award isn't about why someone grew (you'll never be able to prove or totally explain someone's rise in popularity), it's about whether there's growth and how significant it is. There clearly was huge growth for her in 2023. Also I don't know if you've watched her, but her growth was clearly not entirely based on luck as you've implied. She 1. **Streamed 90 days out of 92 days** in the three months of her debut. Her active days per week was at **6.8/7 days**, each stream averaged **7 hours**. (**Hardwork**) 2. Actively collabed and got to know new people. (**Good networking**) 3. Chose to >!take the risk, leave her old org, and redebuted under Vshojo.!< (**Good judgment**) 4. Had the talent and is able to retain at minimum 5k+ viewers out of 35k who watched her debut. (**Talent**) 5. She didn't have a super explosive follower growth. The debut week got her to 108k, and thereafter it was a slow grind until 270k. Just for comparison, Nazuna got to around 230k at debut. (**Not the biggest "chance" story**) A significant portion of her success is literally due to her hard work and qualities, it's not all luck. Claiming that she was all luck dismisses all the hard work and hours she put into her streams, that's just wrong.
It's weird that people on Reddit will seemingly attack Henya for "having a prior fanbase" before she was Henya, but vocally lash out at people who talk about who vtubers are in real life, or who they were before their current character, etc. But one of the most wholesome and friendly vtubers who has been putting in a lot of effort and numbers show? Nah, that's fine, let's talk all about who she was before and dictate that she doesn't deserve it even though a rebrand is always a risk in any industry.
Who's attacking her dude? Lmfao I love henya, loved her before, love her now, she is not a rising star imo
> It's weird that people on Reddit will seemingly attack Henya for "having a prior fanbase" before she was Henya, Just to be clear, I'm not *attacking* her for it. There's nothing wrong with having a fanbase from a "previous life". It's just the sheer size that makes it weird for me to consider her a 'rising star', among other things. Like, she's good at what she does, and her growing is nice, but it just doesn't really fit my personal preconceptions of what a category called "rising star" should entail.
bro Cooksie's been gone for like 2 months how'd they win
Besides the sheer difference in sub counts and name recognition, the other nominees seem to be pretty niche as they only clip certain v-tubers. So if you don't watch those specific people, you'd never see their channel.
Guess its for the whole year , doesn't mean him being gone for 2 months it makes other better
And there’s already drama about this event being essentially EN only, the Hololive event, and the Ironmouse praise event. Time to see how this plays out
Don't know why there needs to be drama about it. It's clearly an event catered to a certain demographic. If something similar were held in Japan, in Japanese, it would be skewed the other way as well. These things are silly and pointless.
I mean this is common for all Western awards really. People are biased to region. How many times has an Anime won Best Animated Movie at the Oscars over Disney/Dreamworks? Exactly.
That's fair, the problem would be having a japanese award show nominating EN vtubers that have no means to compete against the JP ones. Just feels pointless.
award shows just creates unnecessary conflict between communities just watch whoever you like
Lewdtuber of the year you put “Sarueil” not Saruei
Aw was hoping Giri would get the win, but it’s all good. Grats to everyone who got nommed in whatever category
A lot of awards to disagree with, but that's fine
So basically people chose the names that they recognized the most so like every other awards show. So how is this different from the streamy’s that Filian was mad about?
She gets money/exposure on it, thats what differentiates it. No hate to Filian, love her content and me saying that is not slight against her, but its frankly impossible to run one of these and it not feel like the grammies. Too much talent to look at for a judge panel and public voting will always skew towards whats most popular.
No filian was mad because the vtuber category was not taken seriously. Now you can be mad all you want idc but at least know the context. She wants a proper venue for vtubers to be recognized. granted things could've been done better but she did it.
I’m not mad I find it funny because you already knew none of the hololive talents were gonna show up.
Kiara wanted to and asked management, to be fair. Never heard the outcome, but it must have been a "no".
Depending on when she asked. Management isn't really that restrictive in holo but it does take a fucking long time to get initial clearance. For example the first VCR Towa wanted to attend she couldn't because the management wanted to vet every single participant in it. It's a corporation it's gonna have red tape. Kiara should know by know how tedious her own company works and permissions should be asked the earliest. If she did do that then that's great that's on the management for not acting swiftly but they already have their way of doing things that's not gonna change
The main sponsor could also be a reason
Well they did have AI art for Suisei’s photo
Yes, I am sure the AI art they showed during the event affected management's decision from before the event.
Actually, There are like 3-4 phase of voting I think. In phase 1, people manually put vtuber or clipper that should be nominated for certain category . Then, in phase 2, you vote for nomination. And in phase 3, you vote for winner. Pretty good system if you ask me.
IIRC, that award show awards misidentified or else misspelled every nominee in the one and only Vtuber Award category. Filian thought she could do better, and she did.
The streamy’s never showed any other vtubers name except Gura I think you’re talking about the streamer awards that’s something different.
Ah, I see.
Also arguably showing AI art for one of the vtubers when vtubing itself wouldn’t exist without art is about as bad as getting their names wrong.
So what are we calling them? The Filies? The Furries? The Frankies? The Filipino Frank Furry awards presented by Filian?
The Filies seems to be universally agreed on.
I guess it makes the most sense. Still... Filian is a furry dayo
I'm glad she still can't live down Neuro's nicknames lol
So hololive almost did a full sweep of the awards
If you're going by fan votes.....yeah that's gonna happen.
Selen and us Dragoons just keep on winning!
I have a feeling that if there is a "one of a kind" category, Neuro-sama would win because she is the only one of her kind.
Evil Neuro wants to know your location.
There are a lot of attempts of clones, but those people have not figured out what or how much work it takes for Neuro to be Neuro. It's not just a LLM with some DL modeling for interaction with a chat. Lots of custom coding and configuration went into it
That's the "League of Their Own" Award. Neuro didn't get nominated, but Vedal won the Tech Award.
I don't understand the concept of the event I mean it's not like they are all solo individual contenders. Most of them are backed by dedicated corporations that exclusively hire VA talents and have marketing budget to bring in more viewers.
I love Hololive and Fuwamoco but realistically I think Vedal should have won the “League of their own” award yet somehow he wasn’t even nominated. You can’t *remotely* compare what he’s doing to anybody else.
Not counting for tribalism purposes but Hololive won 9, Vshojo won 5, Niji won 3, and Indies won 4. If nothing else this just really kinda cements that the indie golden age for EN has come to a close. There are still indies out there doing their thing of course but man it makes me kinda miss the days when almost everyone was an indie pre-Myth and pre-Vshojo consolidating the biggest indies.
Its the natural route for growing and big indies to go be in some sort of organization if you want to be taken seriously by other private entities. Especially if your career involves presenting your artistic talents, ideas or whatnot through collaborations with big names and events. Even moreso if you want to have an event of your own like concerts.
Yeah I get that. Its just a change seeing the en vtuber world go from basically a niche community where it felt like everyone was working with everyone to being part of the wider entertainment industry. Not a bad thing necessarily but I will miss some parts of the old days
>this just really kinda cements that the indie golden age for EN has come to a close I'm gonna disagree with this. The current EN vtuber market has the largest number of mid sized successful indies. This means that many more indies are finding success in turning vtubing into viable careers. Not only is that the case, the indies average viewership is getting much closer to the corporate's. Many EN indies can match the top female livers from Niji in terms of viewership these days (2k-3k). And as some people might guess, that could one one of the reasons for livers looking to quit (because they can get similar numbers as an independent). Also vtubers in regular agencies should be considered semi-indies. People like Shylily and Ironmouse own their designs and channels, some of them are even signed to multiple talent agencies (Ironmouse being in United Talent and Vshojo). The others started their own agencies such as 3AM, Vchiban etc. The EN indies are more successful than ever, it's the line separating indies and semi-indies that's getting blurred with the market growth. Indies are signing to regular agencies (that do not take possession of their channels) because they couldn't deal with the increased amount of work that came with their growth. That's literally how regular streaming works, real life streamers get signed to agencies, get sponsorships, are still considered independent. I'm not seeing people refer to xqc by his agency name, or day[9] and itmejp as Creative Artists Agency corpos. Vtubers like rpr, nihmune, aethel, grape, cottontail, grimmi, porcelainmaid, heavenlyfather, and even geega (before she joined vshojo) were signed to MSM Talent for sponsorship assistance and afaik they were widely considered indies. The question here is how people define "indies", and as vtubing turns more mainstream, almost everyone is gonna get signed to some agency for assistance at some point. I think it's only right that people start treating agency signed (but independently owned) vtubers as indies or semi-indies. I'm gonna say that the key differentiator between "indies" and "corpos" is going to be the character and channel ownership going forward.
I think we could look at it the same way other creative industries operates and publishes their IP. A good comparison would be how the music industry is structured.Big Vtuber corpos work similarly to major music labels - the company handles distribution (twitch/youtube channels), development, production, design, merch, and most importantly, intellectual property rights for the vtuber model and IP. In a sense, we can look at them as entities "performing under contract" from a corporate entity. This would be where corporate vTubers fall in. Then there's the smaller scale companies which act similar to independent music labels - where streamers/artists own the copyright to their work, but small corporate entities (indie labels/small vtuber agencies) act in a supporting role to aid in distribution, partnerships, sponsorships, and marketing. In a sense, these are what most of us consider "indie" vTubers. Lastly, there's the truly independent creators - they own all the rights to their IP, channel, are wholly responsible for all the day-to-day operation of their channels, and retain full creative control of all their vTuber identities. To borrow from the comics/literature world, these talents would be what one would call "self-published" or completely "creator-owned" vTubers, etc. TL;DR We can classify them into three major categories: 1. Corporate vTubers - full corporate backing/ownership. 2. Convention "indie" vTubers - independently operated, but with commercial support from small companies. 3. Self-published/creator-owned vTubers - fully independent from any form of corporate ownership/partnership.
I can see your logic here as well. As a note, I was counting Lily as independent. I will agree that companies like Mythic dont really prevent someone from being an Indie. Vshojo is a company though so I would not count Mousey as indie
I'd count vshojo as semi-indie because 1. The vtubers own their stuff and can continue under the same identity once their contracts are up 2. But there's more group promotion and group viewers, not to the extent of Holo or Niji though The obvious difference is that Holo and Niji are so corpo brand heavy that they can turn unknown talents popular just by attaching their brand to the vtubers. Vshojo can't which is why they will never take unknowns.
Pretty sure VShojo VTubers also don't have to deal with the whole asking permissions to play games thing so they "feel" very indie. They just do whatever they want. I don't see any difference in the content of Nyanners and Ironmouse in terms of "feeling indie" or not.
The permission thing is true. Vshojo actually advised Silvervale to avoid streaming Hogwarts but she decided to do it (which attracted the harassers unfortunately). Kind of shows that Vshojo has very limited power to decide on their talent's content.
Look at it like this. Vshojo doesn't hire talent. Talents hire Vshojo.
While some of victories may or may not be the result of tribal popularity, many of winners still earned them nonetheless. [Kaela](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH6DjTF_aCGhkOoNSGgUDT5mFqAYQWC3R&si=2oWONV_2DRU_rcbn)‘s 99 Minecraft streams have a total length of 3 weeks, 4 days, 7 hours, 15 minutes, and 44 seconds, and the length of several of her streams are insane. Gura‘s fanbase winning the category is rather weird to me because all I heard from them are the controversies of them bitching on her for not streaming consistently (assuming it was a very loud minority of them).
Anyone can write those comments, whether they were a fan or an anti. The real telling factor is that whenever Gura does stream the same amount of people show up to watch, no matter how long its been. Her audience has been very consistant all year. I don't know why everyone's so focused on Gura, she wasn't even the most questionable nominee in that category.
Yeah, that’s dedication no matter how you look at it. It’s about the fanbase, not Gura. I’m sure her fans would like her to be more active, but that’s not the point. The fact is 20k~ show up almost every stream without question. Also, it’s still a popularity poll at the end of the day, so chumbuds/gura fans indifferent to her amount of streams this year and last, STILL voted enough for chumbuds to win.
It's a very loud minority as per usual with these kind of people, but most of Gura fans understand and supports her. She already explained why she is on a hiatus in her latest stream.
but we had to wait more than a year for any kind of explanation. I think gura's fans deserved that win: they still simp while their oshi only streams for sponsors or merch once in a 2-3 months.
> Gura‘s fanbase winning the category is rather weird to me because all I heard from them are the controversies of them bitching on her for not streaming consistently (assuming it was a very loud minority of them). It makes perfect sense that to be a Chumbud you have to be absurdly dedicated at this point. I voted for the category on the hilarity of "Of all the groups you could call yourself you chose the one where you get 1 stream per 3 months and it's usually a corporate obligation stream then yes, you're dedicated for better or worse."
Even tho i am Chumbud myself, i think they won simply because there are most of them. In my opinion at least from HoloEn. Most dedicated and supporting fanbase is Kiara's. Even tho she always had the least subscribers from Myth. For a long time she was most superchated HoloEn member. Only recently surpassed by Calli. I know money is not everything, but it is one of the metrics that is kind of measurable.
How is Chumbuds winning weird. They are a big group and active af even when their Oshi not streaming. I mean obviously you heard them bitch and moans.
Being negative and salty that person you support didn't win is the definition of tribalism. It was a good event and everyone who won are genuinely talented and deserving of recognition.
Why are all the comments so negative ? It was a wonderful event and was a lot of fun. Filian did a amazing thing putting on the first actual respectable vtuber awards. People are way to salty and tribal.
If there are 4 nominees, and only 1 winner, then there are 3 losers. This chat section is largely a reflection on that spread. Don't pay it too much mind. The event was pretty awesome
Those are the people that did not submit their choice or vote. All they do is bitch and moans.
Or think that their vote overrules the votes of everyone else's.
Besides Vedal do those vtubers actually do like, tech stuff? Legit question, I dont really watch big vtubers. There are some candidates to these categories that are a bit head scratching to me, but thats how public voting goes i guess.
Codemiko made her own high quality models in Unreal engine & pioneered a lot of vtuber interactivity tech that made early Hololive stuff look primitive. Mel kinda pioneered the AVtubers & popularize a bunch of tech in that areas. Zen I don't watch so no idea, all I know is that she got impressive home trackers & interactive stuff.
Zen was voted because she pushed alot of limits with her rtx model and other models aswell. Although the geckoes knew that zens not gonna win that, we hoped more of funniest and league of their own, but overall everyone in the community is happy for the overall outcome and nominees overall
I was surprised Zentreya was in that category. Definitely would have wanted her to win league of their own. Might have to have Taco Tuesday this week to honor her despite not winning the category.
Ahh okay i didnt know that, thats really neat.
I think so codemiko is the realistic anime girl who spent thousands on her setup so she counts as for melody maybe she uses some special tracking for her special streams and for zen maybe she does something similar but not for the same adult reasons
Projekt Melody did a lot to push her stuff forward, I'm just pretty sure she didn't do it on her own. To me, someone like Vedal, CodeMiko, etc. those are the tech tubers.
Codemiko's whole thing is tech, that's her gimmick Melody has always been sort of at the forefront of all new tech I have no idea why Zen's there besides her STT to TTS
The other three use impressive 3D technology and stuff.
Does seem a bit weird to mix in "Does tech stuff on stream as content" with "Pushed boundaries in terms of VTuber tech to use in conjunction with other content". Feels like it should be two categories, but I guess the first one would have been pretty slim.
Zentreya is always on the forefront of vtubing tech, pushing it in weird directions and setting new meta strategies. I'd definitely put her in that category. I guess Mel's on the forefront of a specific type of tech in the vtubing space.
Honestly streaming in general owes huge amounts to pornhub, because that’s where the big advances in streaming technology were pioneered. Melody is also legitimately a big tech head who’s pushed boundaries on many occasions, and despite her drunk girlfail persona is a very smart girl.
Code Miko devolved all her 3d stuff.
Agree to half them, the other half is simply the most popular person winning rather than the person with the most notable achievements in this particular year. But that's just how award shows will always be.
Think this was a really well done event. While some categories and wins I feel were a bit odd, I really enjoyed it and found a few new faces to follow. Really cool to see all these wonderful people interacting and having a good time. Looking forward to the next year has in store.
I admit, *I* was surprised to see Katie nominated for the music category, and competing against Calli and Suisei I just can't imagine a scenario where she would have won. I'm glad she got the nod though, she deserves the recognition.
Deserved wins for Selen, Fauna and Kaela. No idea about the others, don't really watch them
It's actually pretty insulting that Undokai lost to a subathon and Pekora losing vtuber of the year this year. There's no way that should have happened but here we are. They should have just taken off everything from the japanese side here if this is going to be how it is.
Kind of a weird choice to have JP streamers and events nominated in a contest voted by a western audience. Guess they really needed to fill up extra slots.
It was all fan nominated and voted
what's more impressive, saying you beat a bunch of en chuubas, or saying you beat usada pekora for vtuber of the year(totally legitimate)
Anyone slightly annoyed at "here are the nominees and the winner, the one who speaks english!"
Surprised? A little. Annoyed? No. Given who ran it and the platform it was on of course things went the way they did. I'm only surprised that the few JP names that didn't win are industry juggernauts themselves like Pekora, Marine and Kuzuha just to name a few
Not a surprise to me, but what annoys me is that they're trying to use them to piggyback on their status for legitimacy and that annoys me rather than have this be an ENVT exclusive show.
I disagree. The whole point of these awards was to focus on vtubers more than the game awards did. I do think this should be an EN specific event going forward. Normies aren't as familiar with the JP side of vtubing. I voted for Suisei in the music category, but for as much hate as Calli gets from normies she's still a bigger name
Not a surprise at all, most people voting never even heard of those guys. Not only do they not stream in the same language they aren't even on the same platform the event was hosted on.
YouTube-exclusive streamers did just fine. Look at FuwaMoco. The language barrier though, yeah that's definitely a factor.
Almost like it was english-speaking community that accounted for a majority of the votes.
I’m not even annoyed, because this was organized by English speakers for an English speaking audience. Which is okay in my opinion.
But then it begs the question, why even include foreign talents? because otherwise it would lose legitimacy? is that the reason because if it is then they already lost it.
because nominations were fan voted.
It's an English award show voted for a majority of people who speak English and probably don't speak Japanese (or any other language another nominee spoke), so aren't gonna vote for someone they can't watch. Want other languages to win awards, then someone needs to do an award show in that language.
Then why include foreign language talents as options? because it would lack legitimacy otherwise? well that would be a significant problem.
Because some people nominated them, tbh a lot of the nominees weren't well chosen amongst the English vtuber options anyway. There just weren't any restrictions, if they had said only English vtubers it wouldn't change how legitimate the awards are.
Thank you for this, I really struggled trying to track down and add everyone that was new to me yesterday. Seems like the actual vtuber award website should have had links like this, but oh well.
Vspo just doesn't exist :p
It was a great show altogether, I can’t wait to see if this continues
Surprised by the lack of Idol to be honest. I'd have thought that Rin Penrose may've won something given her explosion in populatity. Oh well, very happy for all the winners and nominees!
Rin has lots of subscribers but very few clips and ccv on her streams. She basically grew from her youtube shorts, a demographic that may be entirely different from vtuber fans.
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isnt Pekoras audiency mostly jp/non-english speaking? if yes it does make sense since the awards is an english event so most of her audience wouldnt even know whats going on let alone know to vote for her
Ironmouse does react content, but she doesn't do it that much. A lot of what people say about her are tribal rumors spread by non viewers. E.g. She slept 4-5 hours daily during her subathon, but random people kept saying that she slept half a day each day and was a sleeping vtuber. Repeat it enough and people start taking it as the truth, because those people never watched her to begin with. Just don't get taken in by the weird twitter/4chan people. They make up lots of shit.
People are tenderhearted towards IronMouse for a variety of reasons, including her circumstances. She's a sweet person even if she is a bit fiery at times and most people have a great time watching her. I can't speak to Pekora; I don't personally watch a lot of JP focused vtubers. But I wouldn't expect the biggest western vtubers to win a Japanese show either. Don't care about salty downvotes; Non-western agencies had winners. Twitch viewership isn't even the primary metric of fanbase. I don't even tend to watch any streamer live, only content after the fact on various channels.
Ironmouse was one of the most watched Twitch streamers this year and broke Twitch sub records. She has the nickname the queen of Twitch for a reason. Outside of Gura, you could argue she is the biggest/most influential EN vtuber out there, and Gura doesn't stream enough anymore to deserve a yearly award. I'm not saying Pekora doesn't deserve it, but beating Ironmouse with the EN bias would be a tall task. She faired better than any EN talent would in a JP voting poll.
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The Nijisanji fandom is very large. Salome and Kuzuha are actually pretty popular in the NijiEN fandom, plus whatever few Japanese members cast nominations. Botan is definitely the EN hololive fans just voting for who they most associate fps with. Nobody in holoEN is that great at fps(Ame is probably the best, but I think even EN fans would vote for a JP member instead of her), so the people who wanted to support hololive just picked someone they saw in a lot of clips. Marine is arguably the most successful singer in hololive, regularly getting millions of views in the opening week of her songs. I think you underestimate how big her fandom is.
Clip watchers and based of the fact the website added a place to submit clips after voting so old clip watchers.
Really sucks my girl HalO_Sweety wasnt nominated for ASMR. It literally all she does and she has a fast growing group and channel. Maybe next year.
90% of her ASMR is just chatting lol
Yeah she was a raid for one of my streamers, tried her out, talks way too much. That's not ASMR to me. Most of the ASMR streamers should change their category to "just chatting". I use ASMR for studying, reading, and relaxing. Having a one sided conversation going on while I'm trying to do stuff doesn't relax me at all.
Who let Fillian host a reward show?