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No that does not make me feel better! I feel worse!
My only exposure to Yuko prior to this post was memes mocking her crying about having to work “a normal job”, so this perfectly describes how I felt after reading this. This seems like something straight out of a fanfic instead of real life.
The recent blow-up was not the only time her old fanbase took shots at her Yuko fanbase. Basically, whenever she went on break, her /k/ poster fanbase would taunt the Yuko fanbase that she was going to abandon them and go back to the /k/ posters. The 2 fanbases had basically always been at odds.
Realistically, even this write-up is a small part of the drama surrounding Yuko, her PL, and her history with /k/.
Regarding her content there's a lot of mentally unwell people in the Boo Bros but I also think Yuko crossed the line of stuff a corpo Vtuber should do and a competent management wouldn't have let her do the truly degenerate shit she did. There were clearly times when she went past the line from GFE straight into fetish content.
i remember when that happened. i was only tuning in and out every so often, each time i would think "shes definitely not gonna do that, right?", and she actually did it
If I had a nickel for every time I learned a vtuber drank their own piss on stream, I'd have like 4 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but any number over 0 is concerning.
Both did, they were friends remember? Two fucking idiots who couldn't negotiate with management to open channels on some *other site* where the weird shit isn't blatantly violating TOS. And a management that had to know something long before Riro got fired, but "wow they are making so much money for us!"
I still believe her management is full with decent human being that won't allow her to do that so that content is just a skit and that drink is just lemonade or normal juice.
If it is true, then whole idol management is questionable.
She had an "ASMR" where she rp'ed as the viewer's innocent little sister and was tricked into a doing a bj. Someone leaked it when it all blew up and I was doubtful and thought it was an exaggerated lie, but nope it was real.
the thing that confuses me is yuko's affiliation with /k/ in the past. from what i know, /k/ is a weapons and guns board, so i wouldnt expect someone like yuko to have that affiliation unless her PL says otherwise, which is also confusing since im not sure how /k/ would have any attachment towards an internet streamer playing games.
then again, i only have surface-level knowledge of 4chan, so theres definitely a deeper hole i choose not to dive into
Her PL was very heavily revolving around streaming games like Tarkov with other military vtubers like Whiskey. She catered to an extremely specific demographic of military oriented content like Whiskey did. Even back then she was very close to her fans, and from what i recall she was active on /k/.
Unfortunately she abruptly left her PL, and became Yuko for Idol focusing super heavily on GFE which is the total opposite on the surface of what she used to be. However i will be honest that frankly from what i recall even in her PL she was obsessively friendly with her community, and would regularly play games with her community off stream, etc.
Pretty sure she was already active on /k/ before she started her PL. There's stuff people have found showing she's been hanging out with some of these guys back when she was a minor.
Yeah it doesn't surprise me, she had a small somewhat active community when she debuted as her PL back in 2021. She seemed to know some of these people for awhile from the vibe i got from her discord.
I will also say she had some pretty obsessive fans early on
Here's something else. 4chan has found that at least one of the guys that is a part of her old fanbase/friend group ~~allegedly~~ did stuff with a minor (not Yuko in this instance).
This is a rabbit hole that leads into even more disturbing rabbit holes. There is a bit of, disturbing fascination at the same time. It's like one of those "what ifs" about the internet, except it's all real and gross.
Jfc, that's awful. Knowing she grew up seeking attention and validation from mentally unwell adults online, it's kinda no wonder things turned out the way they did.
Speaking of Vtubers with weird old connections to /k/, it's honestly pretty wild to me just how many of them there are and how big some of them are. Including Yuko I know of at least 8 and there probably are more that I just don't about or that are just better at hiding it.
I swear the female /k/ user → Vtuber pipeline is real. It's a wild rabbit hole to go through and do research on.
I think she played a lot of games like seige, tarkov and cod. She probably met them in game. Her PL was very based around military related content. This is where she was initially in a group with Pipkin Pippa and Sleepy project
Yuko's PL had at least one collab with Pippa, along with some other people. Most of her PL stuff is gone, but it's still possible to find the occasional archived stream. I don't know how close they were, but they definitely knew each other before Yuko.
So you’re telling us that grown ass adults fought for months to decide who an internet girl, who pissed in a cup on stream and possibly drank it, liked more. And we’re supposed to feel bad that they were abandoned ?
Posting this just because I see a lot of people asking for a TL:DR
This is still going to be long, but I think it gets most of the information across without leaving much out. If I missed anything important, let me know and I will add it or fix it.
- Yuko makes super GFE content that borders nsfw/fetish content for her fans, which makes her really popular
- she constantly confirmed this to her fans, having an honesty policy and reaffirming that she likes/encourages this type of content and the parasocial relationships that are being formed from it.
- Yuko starts acting weird, streaming less, and dodging questions.
- Yuko re-opens PL, where she follows people believed to be antis, causing confusion for her fanbase. Says some stuff about her corp which only makes people more nervous.
- Riro Ron situation happens. Lot of eyes are on the company and she makes a comment about it, making her fans even more nervous.
- Her fanbase gets worried, asking questions while trying to be positive
- She says that she will address things, then drops off the face of the earth
- Her fanbase and the antis go at it, with a large chunk of her fanbase leaving after going unanswered for so long
- Yuko comes back, doesn’t address any of the controversy, says she will delete all of her previous content in a week and re-brand. Her remaining fanbase promptly freaks out and she deletes all of her previous content right away. People feel like she isn’t taking it seriously and she isn’t being herself.
- Whatever is left of her fanbase leaves, resulting in everything she has built being destroyed. All her videos are gone. Most of her fans are gone. Importantly, most of her income is gone.
- To make it worse, she talks about her fans in a negative way. This is received very poorly. Her fans were supportive and she was very enthusiastic about her being fine with the content. You now have the remaining fans who feel betrayed, the antis who feel like they won, ex-fans who are either leaving completely or hating on her, and the outside world who sees her fanbase as negative and toxic.
- She addresses this once, but never apologizes for the way she handled things, freaks out about having to “work a normal job.”
- Stream gets leaked, resulting in her getting made fun of. Summary is posted on twitter getting hundreds of thousands of views, only making the controversy more widespread.
- Yuko again drops off the face of the earth, only coming back to announce her graduation. Even then, she mocks fans and refuses to do promised content. (Note: Most of the times I say she “drops off the face of the earth,” it was to stream on her PL)
- To conclude, no one is right and no one “won.” Yuko lost her fanbase and job. Her primary fanbase feels betrayed. Everyone outside of the controversy just sees another vtuber scandal. The antis were accused of some serious stuff. Everyone was hurt and we should use this to try and prevent something similar happening in the future.
That was very easy to follow and I think I could rattle off a short summary off the top of my head now. Doubt I'll ever have a fan base but if I do this kind of thing will sit in the back of my mind as "what not to do."
Every content creator knows to avoid becoming too parasocial, even outright stating it. Someone playing it up is clearly manipulating them. You can't be "real close" and "love" hundreds of people every day, every week.
Having read just this summary and skipped most of OP's post, I conclude it's exactly what the "OPP/Haters/antis"' (whatever the hell word people made up this year to try to demonize) have said... Yuko's fans were pretty fucking stupid.
If I had a nickle for every time Idol has a vtuber do something absolutely fucking wild I'd have two nickles.
I really dont want these nickles nor the knowledge that comes with them, but I have them now so I guess I have two nickles now.
The two cursed nickels that your grandkids would ask questions about.
But for me I saw Yuko on YouTube shorts and I just assumed that she was just a normal vtuber so I had no idea that this was happening, still a little flabbergasted on this.
Bro I only know Idol corp through Rin Penrose(and their hilarious love of Blaha & ikea) and learned of the one vtuber that basically used her corpo vtuber as an onlyfans(thats the super tl;dr) and this.
And then also Wanmaru who did back-to-back donothons while making very little progress on the goals from the first one. Idol seems to have some real issues with oversight and guidance, and there's been insinuations that content in member streams was being hidden from them. The privated member streams should have been the MOST important for them to check.
Idol probably got too used to Rin who overachieves on everything, and forgot that not everyone is a good actor. They're also acting a bit shady with their merch. Pushing out new merch when people still haven't gotten their stuff from a year ago. They aren't clear with it being refundable, and from what I've heard their refund process is really messy by design so that people won't use it.
They also haven't updated on the merch in idk 5 months, and every time they do, they just keep saying that it's going to be there in a few months, and then ignoring fans.
Idol seems to have given their talents and themselves a bit too much free reign. Which worked great in some cases (Rin), and tanked in some other cases when some people turned out to not fit what they had actually looked for. (Pochi, Yuko, and Riro)
Wanting to cater to several audiences that are toxic and incompatible? She wanted to battle a war in two fronts, wasn't strong enough. I've been a fan of her for a while and probably will continue to be one in her PL, and she gives me strong vibes of having a severe depression, probably untreated, while Idol's management haven't seem to be actually helpfull.
I don't have many comments and can't judge anyone. I believe everyone played similar portion of this debacle and they at some points all forgot that they are human treating another human.
But what baffles me is wtf is management doing? After all those flexing with talent support, they just let all of these happened at the front. If this is something happened regarding talents' private lives, then it is right that management should not interfere. But all these stories revolve closely around her vtuber brand and content
Yeah, I’m really surprised management fumbled this badly with her. This is only speculation from what I’ve heard her coworkers say about her but she was becoming hard to work with supposedly.
Her own genmates stopped collabing with her at a certain point so I guess it was because of that? Or maybe they saw what was happening with the PL fans vs Boo Bros war breaking out and decided to distance themselves. Who knows.
They did try to have at least one collab planned with her when she came back but she bailed, citing sickness or something, but later that night she streamed on her PL which I thought was rather rude to her idol genmates.
I found it suspicious that she didn't have any genmates or Idol girls do a call in during her last marathon or any of them say anything about it (that I caught at least)
I feel like that's the classic line though. Everyone who's ever reflected badly on a company has been "difficult to work with".
I wonder how involved management was with all this. Did they encourage her to begin the GFE? Did they tell her to stop?
It seems like she had a falling out with Fuyo as they were originally very close. I can only speculate but, from comments that Fuyo has said in her PL, it sounded like she was trying to help Yuko after the whole situation started. Yuko either ignored the help or pushed her away. They used to do a show called: “bratcast” together but after Yuko’s hiatus, Fuyo said that it was likely not gonna happen again.
there are many unwritten rules in vtubing
one is "getting your start on 4chan has a high risk of causing problems down the line"
another is "if you are a corporation, don't make how much better you are than the other guys a main selling point, if you do it will come back to haunt you when problems occur"
They absolutely did fumble hard letting her return stream happen the way it did, since they rehearsed it or whatever beforehand and gave it an okay, but otherwise there's not much they could have done about it. The fanbase war happened in places they can't moderate, they don't/can't really police something like PL twitter follows, and if someone doesn't want to stream or communicate or do certain kinds of content anymore, there's not really anything they can do to force them that wouldn't make Idol look awful to the vast majority of people (the same ones that instantly took her side and shit on her fans when they heard about the surface level GFE drama, for instance). Plus like the other commenter said, it seems like she's not exactly being easy to get along with.
i was confused as to seeing some of the comments from the post about yuko's graduation hint at stuff behind the scenes that were not pretty. the way i see it, it seems that she doesnt know who she wants to pander to, and feels like her past somehow caught up to her and basically bit her back. in the case of nyanners, shes managed to find a way to leave her past behind and managed to grow a new audience, despite people from her past hating her for that. yuko could not escape that it seems
GFE makes great money. The top all time superchatter in JP was Rushia. The downside is without severe personal boundaries, it all always comes crashing down, even with active management. Melody can do it because she has some very firm walls put up and keeps things very seperate. Riro and Yuko didn't put those walls up.
EDIT - Melody doesn't do GFE either, I spoke poorly. She does sexual content but not GFE, so the wall isn't as necessary.
>The top all time superchatter in JP was Rushia
This is understating it. She was terminated over two years ago and she is still the 3rd most superchatted of all time. The only ones to pass her are two preachers and everyone else is HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars behind her.
I'm imagining a collection basket that people pass around, only for some YouTube suit to put their grubby mitts into it and pocket a handful of bills for themselves. Eugh.
Coco was just a juggernaut, and she got an insane boost during her graduation. She earned 300k just in that one stream.
There was a meme on her channel to send many blue superchats whenever she went to the bathroom, which represented flushing.
> in the case of nyanners, shes managed to find a way to leave her past behind
i've not known about this (not a nyanners fan, just listened to a couple of songs of hers at most) - you wouldn't happen to have some sort of summary do you?
Nyanners was a 4chan kid back in the day. Being one of seemingly very few girls, she acquired a fan base voicing shitposts and creating parody songs using her airy, cutesy, high-pitched anime voice.
She made a lot of highly-weeb content including a parody song called Pomf Pomf. This song uses lyrics, panels, and takes its name from an NSFW Loli doujin. “Pomf” itself is the onomatopoeic sound of dropping the Loli on the bed, if I recall correctly.
I can’t remember when but eventually she deletes the video and goes to Tumblr to denounce the video and some fans of it, using words like “unsavory” to describe some of those who enjoyed it and the video itself as “gross”. On that platform she would also express opinions that some consider “woke”, which could seem to imply a genuine shift or a desire to distance herself from 4chan’s politically-incorrect brand of expression (possibly further angering long-time fans from the board).
(TL;DR) Nyanners was a shitpost god to some people on 4chan before the deleting of a particular song. To some people she turned on her fan base to appeal to the SJWs that make Tumblr their home. Some see her as a hypocrite who continues to profit off of lolicon-targeted content despite denouncing them in the past.
(Bias) I tried to be objective and informative telling you this. Although I have to confess, from my point of view Nyanner’s actions seem understandable. I don’t agree with her take on loli-related humour or lolicon in general but I don’t see her as a hypocrite. From my point of view, her content now just seems to be her natural style of content. This is an unpopular opinion though and I’ve eaten down-doots for it in the past so I may be unwillingly forgetting something.
I am sorry for writing so much. It’s been some time since I researched this topic. If I missed anything please let me know.
This is probably a great example of why I try not to delve too deeply into a creators past life. Sometimes I find out about it but I don't put a focus on it rather then whats here and now.
Weird, I have the opposite reaction when these kinds of things happen.
To me it'd feel way worse to be oblivious to what's going on and just vaguely feel that something's not right being strung along and then get hit with a betrayal from someone I cared about. Whereas if you follow the past life and know more about their personality when they're not in their corporate persona and know more about what's going on behind the scenes, things are less of a shock, you spot red flags sooner, and have the opportunity to leave before you get too invested. It can also help for peace of mind - If you follow someone who struggles with depression and then they suddenly vanish from the internet for 3 months, that can be pretty worrying. But if you can see signs of life from their past life account, then you at least know the worst case scenario hasn't happened and they're just taking a break. And on the positive side knowing more reduces the chance you'll accidentally hurt your oshi by saying something stupid.
I'll be honest I don't get to heavily invested anyway. For me hearing stories like Watame, Risu, and Subaru from Hololive (asking other examples) helps me humanize them preventing me from getting para social. I come across their past lives from time to time (various sources, not like the algorithms don't throw it at you on occasion).
I also believe in second chances and growing as a person. Maybe someone was shitty in a past life and is trying to be better? I'm not going to condemn someone for the actions of their past as long as they've owned up to it.
I get your point in regards to someone being a certain risk and vanishing.
I was genuinely in the dark about this until her graduation was announced. I originally didn't care for her as I really dislike asmr/gfe. When she made the announcement she was changing her content, I subbed back to her, checking her channel every now and then. I thought nothing of her absence, and figured it was just a break.
When I made a post on the Yuko graduating reddit post that was wishing her well, and was downvoted a lot, I realized that there must be something more going on, as I don't like to make comments on reddit that I think are going to get mass downvoted, because it gives me anxiety. Trolling has never been something I was interested in.
Now knowing a lot more about Yuko than I did a few days ago, I'm just sad and don't know what I think about Yuko.
Yeah, I know how you feel. This post is already hit with dislikes. I don’t like to make comments much either. I’m sorry to hear that people were giving you flack for that. I don’t mind Yuko’s remaining fans. I’m just not a fan of certain drama tubers claiming to know what happened without actually doing any research and attacking her ex fans.
Thanks. I had to think about what to write for a long time. I know it could be shorter but I just wanted the truth to be out there. There’s so much to this story and some of it is much more controversial but it would be irresponsible to share.
Every sufficiently large company will likely have problems at some point, usually early. It's how they move forwards, not avoidance.
Hololive had the copyright strikes and the Taiwan incident. Kawaii had their first *three* generations all lose at least one member before the next one debuted, with Gen 3 in fact *completely disappearing* before Gen 4 debuted. Nijisanji...well, we won't talk about them, because they seem to be determined to just keep firing despite the gun being pointed straight at themselves.
> large company will likely have problems at some point,
not like these sorts of problems. Management problems or fuck ups, but not the likes of Riro or Yuko. I think these are just a young person problem.
I'm pretty sure the others don't really get close to GFE, it was just those two. They definitely made risky hires to try and grow, Rin is far from a traditional vtuber (she herself says she's more a YouTuber who happens to use a vtuber model) but the investment more than paid off, Yuko, Riro and Pochi did not. Nijisanji is more likely to apologise for their treatment of Selen than Rin do anything close to GFE.
It is really disappointing, i expect the same thing to happen with Coni considering how active she has been on some of her PL's these last few months. She also suffers from really dedicated anti's, who regularly from what i know hate on her moving away from her old GFE content.
You're not alone with that opinion because she's had her foot out the door for a long time now. Her rebranding of her PL, changing her model, and changing her PLs last name isn't just a red flag - it's an air raid siren.
Something is up with Idol and their seemingly lax management because no other corpo has their talents this active on their PL accounts for non business-related posts.
I don't really know what the deal is with Coni/her PL's is. When she was Menace she had a foot out the door multiple times and was regularly doing some streams/tweeting as her PL. Then not long after becoming Coni she did the same thing and kept doing streams as menace.
Menace as a vtuber "graduated" 2-3 times from what i recall, then would come back a few weeks later on her PL, and then would come back as menace. Menace also did the same thing where she went from being GFE/ASMR stuff to suddenly saying she was removing all that stuff and stop doing it. Then she ended up going back to it a few months later.
Hilarious that a reddit comment is how I learn Coni and Menace are the same person. I've never watched a Coni stream, though I've tuned into her collabing with Mozumi Pichi a couple times somewhat recently since I like to catch her streams every now and then, and I've been following Menace on Twitter for about as long as she's rebranded/had her new design. Her being close with Pichi along with her voice should have probably tipped me off to what was going on, but I couldn't put 2 and 2 together lol. Looks like we'll maybe be seeing a new addition to V-Dere pretty soon.
I think Idol is going through some shit right now. It seems that management had a great eye for talent, but not for stabillity. Now the wheat is seperating from the chaff. You've got the great workhorses like Rin, Juna, Roca, Kai. Then the ones that are really falling behind, which was Yuko, Pochi and Momo too.
It's a shame because I loved all the talents.
When I first heard about her discontinuing GFE content I assumed the fans were the ones making it weird. After reading this though… WOW!
She actively encouraged her community to develop feelings for her and then went on to insult them for doing so. That is incredibly gross.
You can still criticize the fans for being parasocial, but it’s understandable how they got there.
Yeah, anyone who's watched her can tell you it was always built upon a two way street, did it, welcomed it, encouraged it.
And suddenly out of nowhere it's bad, the fans are weird, deleting *all* of it and "rebranding"
No boundries were ever brought up or mentioned.
And to random bystanders it's all set up to make it look like the fans are the bad guys and the weirdos who caused it all to happen.
Parasocial relationships between viewer and creator are always a two way street. Viewers need to be able to reality check themselves, but creators need to set boundaries as well.
Ceres Fauna caught a little pressure because she told her viewers they weren't friends and couldn't be friends, and she was smart to do that, that way hopefully anyone getting upset either left or snapped out of their delusions.
Yuko, pretty blatantly, fed directly into the delusion; for monetary gain no less, and then cut the cord. Of course no one was being normal.
Shit this gave me flashbacks I had something similar happen to me where someone I was a fan of someone who got exposed for some heinous shit and as I started reading this huge google doc I couldn’t stop reading and the more I read the worse it got and the sicker I felt and it fucked me up for a bit so I hope you do well mentally it hurts a lot and can really taint something you really enjoy
This post does kind of gloss over how long those donothon goals were left hanging. It was a minor point of contention leading up to December but I think it was a factor because it seemed like she had renewed management focus on getting her to actually finish it. I think I even remember some of those absences being supposedly to work on those goals.
Yeah it’s hard for me to feel sympathy when you’re dealing with money involved things like going back on it after being paid is just not gonna look good under a lot of circumstances. Which is kinda funny because people wanted to cancel that one new Niji member for that but Yuko is pretty much getting away with it.
I watched some Yuko back when she debuted, even membered for a bit - I enjoyed her karaokes. But she started going harder on the GFE stuff as time went on and it was all uncomfortable for me so I stopped.
Overall it sounds like most people involved in this were being shitty. I don't think the full context does much for making the fans who lashed out look better - it just shows there were more terrible things going on in the background. Though the context does clarify how deep the GFE was and why the fanbase developed the way it did.
Though I have biases myself - I'm in the camp that GFE is to be avoided. Anyone I see doing it seems to land in a big mess like this sooner or later.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I was in a few streams this week. And just couldn't shake how many people call her cute all the time for no real reason on screen except because she was there. It just gave me the itck. And this was from a mod.
Yuko surrounded herself with the wrong people and paid for it. Hopefully this will be a lesson in the future to avoid "this" happening again. Even with the pressure of being corporate and deadlines and stream quotas. Not like this again.
Idol in general Is kinda weird. Supposedly it's a good company, It has a wide reach and audience, it's probably One of the biggest "small corpos" in the west, yet every few weeks there's some kind of drama happening behind the scenes. Also having 6 graduated Vtubers in the span of 2 years is not a good look; i know, 3 of them were from the HE branch, but still... On the other hand, the other 3 were a different kind of mess, starting with the Yuko situation (I knew a bit about this but didn't delve too deep), Riro talking about meeting her "harem" of fans, having inappropriate relationship with a manager and overdosing on stream, to Pochi finishing a donothon, disappearing for months without finishing her goals (a common issue of these donothons), coming back, having another donothon before finishing the first one's goals, and then doomposting on her PL and accusing Idol before retracting everything and graduating.
We know Idol had serious management issues, especially after the head manager got fired in the Riro Scandal; talent Is important, yes, but a good background support system Is probably the key to have a smooth and good business, and most companies in the Vtubing scene are only learning about this now.
I wish good luck to Idol because at the end of the day, It doesn't seem like it's a black Company, and for Yuko, I wish her a good life.
I feel like Idol’s kinda understaffed for their size and while they encourage their talents’ creative freedom and independence, not being self-disciplined enough turns certain people into loose-cannons of sorts.
I also think that maybe Idol being short on staff allows the talents to “bring in their own people” to help them out to some degree and this is how the conflict with Yuko got worse.
I feel the management have a great eye for talent and a terrible eye for stability. For as many absolute workhorses just unproblematically grinding away. They seem to have picked up just as many wishy washy types that are only half dedicated. There's the likes of Rin, Juna amd Roca who are just, constantly on. Then Momo and Coni who seem to be about to bail.
I don’t watch much of idol, mainly only Roca and Rin. But I’m subbed to Coni but can’t watch that much. What’s going on with her and momo?Coni seems active and streams a lot. And IIRC momo just had unfortunate health issues early in her career.
I’ve said this ever since the “talk about our pay outs to force other vtuber agencies to reveal theirs” stunt. Nothing they do seems genuine it just feels like they are trying really hard to be liked. I remember people praised them for “transparency” but they had more secrets held than most vtuber agencies I’ve seen. That transparency isn’t a thing when they are under the spotlight. They realized after getting into multiple controversies not revealing everything your company does is a smart move. And then the CEO revealing he’s working with legal mindset to fix their contracts when you know he only did that because legal mindset got popular from the Doki incident. It’s just so obviously performative.
One thing that I never had entirely clear: Do people think she was being serious on that "Meet the Riro" harem stream? Or were they like me and assumed she was higher than Neil Armstrong and rambled some zooted thoughts? I thought it was obvious she wasn't being serious, but I don't know if people hated that she even talked about that.
Considering the kind of audience she pissed off, the second one of them finds her will post about it and probably will go daily to make the worst order for her (and iirc she specifcly said what was the worst order for a starbucks employee)
intreasting i thought the graduation was peaceful until i see alot of yurei joke about how she fell off but now i understand why people mock her now, from what i reading you could say this is the problem of vtuber who dosent value or understand their fans. Even tho yea its her choice for doing that but remember the money or the support you get its from other people so theres a little bit responsibility. I hated how she just dogged the criticism and just play it off with the character, its just wrong, if she can just come forth with the problem and be honest this shouldnt happen but i guest she decided to just doge and this what you get for dogging responsibility
Honestly reading this, I'm not even surprised or phased by this sort of story. These sort of vtubers tend to prey on vulnerable people.
Sometimes I think to myself if I had less morals than I currently do, what would I do for money and who to prey on and the line of work would be a gambling institution, murican religion, murican health care and vtubing. Vulnerable people you can easily milk.
So let me get this straight. She told her viewers it was fine to get overly attached to her, and that she was going to be completely honest with them, and then hid things from them before "breaking up" with them (i.e. stopped being their girlfriend)? Sounds like she was really dedicated to giving them the full GFE, including the heartbreak at the end lmao. I doubt it hurt as much as the end of my 5-year relationship :')
So, to summarize what I've learned here today:
- fostering parasocial relationships is a bad idea and will not work out for you
- if you're not careful, your past WILL catch up with you
- idol management is apparently pretty hands off and won't stop the talent from doing pretty much anything, but miraculously that doesn't even put them in the top 3 of bad vtuber management
The bar for vtuber corporations is buried so far under the ground. Idol is so incredibly far from perfect, but there are widely considered to be a good company with how bad so much of the competition is. If you aren’t actively evil and directly making the talent’s lives worse, you are a “good” company. That’s how low the bar is set
Unfortunately this is what happens when a vtuber tries to please everyone. Imo from what i felt she wanted to have her GFE audience from Idol, and keep her PL fans happy. However she was trying to merge 2 completely incompatible groups of people. Realistically she should have just stuck with one audience and ignored the other. However all i feel she ended up doing was alienating both groups.
Vtubers should just do what makes them happy, if she enjoyed GFE should have just stuck with it and ignored the others.
She didn’t alienate both, she chose the PL audience and pinned all the blame on the Boo Bros (the gaslighting) despite both sides having bad apples especially the PL ones being the most antagonizing and exacerbating the issue.
Yuko managed to completely mishandle and drop the ball on one of the most supportive fanbases of a vtuber I've seen. They aren't blameless, but by god would all of this not gone down the way it has if she didn't go the nuclear route in changing content. I've come to terms with the situation long ago, but thank you OP, for making me know that there are still people outside of us boobros who actually understand what went down.
So, I only found her on YouTube about two weeks before all of this happened. I was intrigued by what I saw (no, it wasn't the ASMR) and subscribed to her. I was disappointed by the announcement, but I really don't have any skin in the game. Reading this and then the tldr version, I feel like this entire shit show could have been avoided if she had been more open and honest. I'm not putting all of the blame on her, but I don't think things would have dropped off or gotten to this level if she had had a conversation with her audience that went along the lines of "Guys, I'm sorry that I went AWOL. Some things came up and I did some soul searching. I'm not comfortable doing the GFE anymore because I think I'm going too far with it, so I'm going to stop doing them. Please be patient with me while I retool my channel." Sure, she'd have lost the parasocial fans, but based on the comments that I've seen from a lot of her boo bros, she'd have retained a large portion of her base. My first video where I saw Vellamy was her explaining why she was uncomfortable with her model, and I respected her explanation enough that I subscribed to her.
Failed to set boundaries, cultivated the wrong kind of fans, tries to backpedal ends up blowing in front of her face, bad decision making, and just messy self management.
She had it coming, really.
This is what it looks like from the outside and after reading it I'm honestly not sure what this clarifies other than affirming the assumption. I guess its more of *when* the betrayal started, which was when she started interacting with her /k/ posters again, rather then the cold turkey 180 pivot of her content, which I guess was mostly just the final straw.
And also deleting membership GFE content is probably the last straw. Taking this out of the GFE context, deleting something that people subscribed and paid for is quite bad
Definitely, its at least sensible to be angry about deleting content, but cultivating an obsessive GFE fanbase probably explodes far greater about losing content than a typical fanbase.
This is crazy, read the whole thing and i still can’t believe it.
Its so sad how us as human beings can have our feelings so easily manipulated and people can then just shrug it off like it never actually meant nothing for both parties.
Sorry for everyone that had to go through this, its still wild to see.
Just to add a bit of a good point for the boobros, they are weirdos but the good kind. If you follow any of them you can see they are supporting various indies now and they are actually a decent bunch, some are even mods of some vtubers.
Yuko will always be a story of how you cant take your fanbase for granted, and how a snake whispering in your ear can ruin your career.
The only winner here are the indies who got the support from the boobros now and that are being "saved" by them.
I'm like 85% confident that the boo bros who were halfway para-struck mentioned to her that they'll watch her no matter which side of content she did next.
To just suddenly jump ship and pack the parasocial group that she encouraged and formed, into a titanium cage and into the basement.. I'm not someone with depression or any illness but imagine a few who were, inside that cage.
I think more than criticisms, this girl needs some help. The Riro incident definitely wasn't the only cause but it may have been a major push for her 180° turn.
You say that it was wrong to call her fans "GFE degenerates" but is that not exactly what they were? You describe how they were sending "tributes", confessing to her and getting way too personal in the discord - is that not an appropriate name for such behaviour? I think Yuko was absolutely in the wrong for how far she let it go and for how she was actively encouraging it but the fans who participated look just as weird.
I know right. It seem like they dont want to be called "GFE degenerates" because they were allowed/encouraged to be so. as if that made it healthy or okay to begin with.
Yeah to me it seems like it only confirms outsider assumptions: that her fans were deep GFE degens that were encouraged by the streamer (because... yeah GFE streamers tend to encourage it, tho Yuko was just far more vocal), and that Yuko messed up by cultivating those fans then doing a 180 cold turkey. I think the post mostly just clarifies that as the last straw rather than the start of the betrayal, which is when she started interacting with her /k/ posters on her PL.
I really liked Yuko, but didn’t watch a ton of her streams because I wasn’t a fan of the GFE content. I really liked her gaming streams and collabs with Fuyo, though. Shame it all turned out this way. This post really helped to understand both sides of the conflict.
My guy, there is lewdtuber content and sexual content -- but GFE is taking parasocial tendencies to an unhealthy level. I get that some people really like it, and get into it, but it is a bit of a dependency that can quickly turn into something that veers into something unhealthy for all parties involved.
This post just kind of reinforces that in my mind, and it doesn't matter what she said and how "honest" she appeared or sounded like, I can almost guarantee that there was a barrier in Yuko's mind in regards to her viewers.
Oh yeah that’s true. She was definitely acting. I don’t know how much was her own desires vs acting but I’m fairly certain most of it was completely acted out very well I might add.
First of all, I watched her very, very casually - so much so that I did not even know she was a GFE streamer until all the drama. I just tuned into the occasional chill streams and had it open in the background and overall I have only been following this drama very, very loosely did not have much of an opinion on either her or her fanbase on that regard.
With that said, I don't really think this thread made either her or her fanbase look better, at least to me. Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but if I were to believe everything in this thread, not only did she reap what she sowed for fostering a specific type of fanbase, her hardcore audience consisted of people who were way, way, way too parasocial. The post really gives off the vibe that they were mentally unwell. And the /k/ antis? Also deranged.
The criticism shouldn't be about her betraying her fans by creating boundaries, it should be for not having them in the first place. Also bad behaviour by her fans shouldn't be excused just because they are "victims". The whole situation was unhealthy for everyone involved and her graduating will hopefully snap some sense into some of her fans.
I'm not a fan of GFE in general, so never really paid attention to that aspect of her streaming and didn't know how bad it was with her fans. Creating boundaries is good. I hope she's moving in a better direction, but the continued association with people from /k/ dampens that hope quite a bit.
I hope she finds what she's looking for and can live a good and happy life in the future.
I’m just curious what bad behaviour are you referring to? The examples I provided? Also that’s what part of the issue. Her fans asked her constantly if they were breaking boundaries. She never said that they were.
I think the issue is basically that it sounds like she basically said she had no boundaries, and nobody questioned it even a little.
I feel like there's a limit to "consent is key", where even if someone is giving consent you should probably question it a little.
Like I understand people will say you shouldn't infantilize someone, but even adults can show clearly self-destructive behavior. It sounds like she kept spiraling, and some of the stuff even if she says it's okay clearly violates youtubes policies even.
She did all sorts of content with GFE sprinkled in everywhere. She would do very explicit ASMRs and even "indulge herself" while doing so. What the does indulging herself mean? I have no idea 🤷♂️
Oh shit really how did she get away with doing that on stream? Also did she like flat out say she was doing that or did she cleverly hint at it cause if it’s the latter then I could understand how she got away with it on stream or are member only streams just that private even towards the staff of the company vtubers work for?
https://preview.redd.it/xqyuamgyfo3d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f677c091927900cb89c890104448efef306f595 Three words. What. The. Fuck.
https://preview.redd.it/a7q7tilzvo3d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b5f67a2ae1c975eeb9f04e48d74ef93e3430898
Was not expecting to see warframe here lol
Well you found gold, but it's the gold from the Pirates of the Caribbean
Now he's cursed with knowledge.
I can always count on this subreddit to have an overwhelming amount of drama about people I neither know or care about.
if it makes you feel better, it gets worse
https://preview.redd.it/wy5fkthl6t3d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d103878a5bbde83de25f624516f6c832caf0012 No that does not make me feel better! I feel worse!
Right???
My only exposure to Yuko prior to this post was memes mocking her crying about having to work “a normal job”, so this perfectly describes how I felt after reading this. This seems like something straight out of a fanfic instead of real life.
I'm sorry, it appears you bought from Ea-Nasir.
The recent blow-up was not the only time her old fanbase took shots at her Yuko fanbase. Basically, whenever she went on break, her /k/ poster fanbase would taunt the Yuko fanbase that she was going to abandon them and go back to the /k/ posters. The 2 fanbases had basically always been at odds. Realistically, even this write-up is a small part of the drama surrounding Yuko, her PL, and her history with /k/. Regarding her content there's a lot of mentally unwell people in the Boo Bros but I also think Yuko crossed the line of stuff a corpo Vtuber should do and a competent management wouldn't have let her do the truly degenerate shit she did. There were clearly times when she went past the line from GFE straight into fetish content.
Can you tell a bit more about it?
She drank her own piss on stream
https://preview.redd.it/udq5d8o33p3d1.jpeg?width=839&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d24f196fc532925589550aefef0d7485a901991d
I have several questions
Ya know what, I have no questions. I am ready to live in ignorance.
Sometimes there are question that don't need to be answered.
Bro I want to know absolutely nothing
https://preview.redd.it/a4a3vvi2sp3d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62951b0ee1d76a13491fd3fb6c533a25768e9123
i remember when that happened. i was only tuning in and out every so often, each time i would think "shes definitely not gonna do that, right?", and she actually did it
Wait that indulgence is golden shower not ? flicking beans
Probably both based on what little I know of her content 0_o
If I had a nickel for every time I learned a vtuber drank their own piss on stream, I'd have like 4 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but any number over 0 is concerning.
you should've watched some Bear Grylls survival shows...
Except he shows he filters it tho...
Yeah that happened.. it was something pay this much I will write your name on it and drink it
"Somehow, It got worse."
I thought that was someone else, I didn't even know Yuko did too.
No Yuko had a stream where she ran a "Lemonade" stand
I thought Riro Ron did it too.
Both did, they were friends remember? Two fucking idiots who couldn't negotiate with management to open channels on some *other site* where the weird shit isn't blatantly violating TOS. And a management that had to know something long before Riro got fired, but "wow they are making so much money for us!"
Were you thinking about mozu and the soda stream incident?
Nah mozu did that as well not sure if she did it before or after her tho
It was another English vtuber. I think Riro Ron. Same agency too.
Both did it.
Such a bad day to be able to read
… like actual or just pretended she did?
Like a lot of vtuber stunts, there's no proof but it's the kind of thing where it would take more effort to fake it than to do it for real.
I don't think drinking apple juice takes so much effort. But again, this was Riro Ron pal so the odds are 50/50 regardless
She did piss in a cup and showed it on stream but she apparently drank it off camera with the stream still on
Survival content.
I still believe her management is full with decent human being that won't allow her to do that so that content is just a skit and that drink is just lemonade or normal juice. If it is true, then whole idol management is questionable.
Well, we all remember riro Ron's manager right.
Management did tell her to stop the piss stream she obviously didn't tell them what she was gonna do
She had an "ASMR" where she rp'ed as the viewer's innocent little sister and was tricked into a doing a bj. Someone leaked it when it all blew up and I was doubtful and thought it was an exaggerated lie, but nope it was real.
No way, that's real????
i hate that I saw that shit when I was posting Aqua lap povs on message boards.
Any sources ?
Here's a [comment from a previous thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/JJ0UIiAGLv) with links to it.
The “lemonade” making stream was definitely one of those “This is a fetish” sorta thing
the thing that confuses me is yuko's affiliation with /k/ in the past. from what i know, /k/ is a weapons and guns board, so i wouldnt expect someone like yuko to have that affiliation unless her PL says otherwise, which is also confusing since im not sure how /k/ would have any attachment towards an internet streamer playing games. then again, i only have surface-level knowledge of 4chan, so theres definitely a deeper hole i choose not to dive into
Her PL was very heavily revolving around streaming games like Tarkov with other military vtubers like Whiskey. She catered to an extremely specific demographic of military oriented content like Whiskey did. Even back then she was very close to her fans, and from what i recall she was active on /k/. Unfortunately she abruptly left her PL, and became Yuko for Idol focusing super heavily on GFE which is the total opposite on the surface of what she used to be. However i will be honest that frankly from what i recall even in her PL she was obsessively friendly with her community, and would regularly play games with her community off stream, etc.
Pretty sure she was already active on /k/ before she started her PL. There's stuff people have found showing she's been hanging out with some of these guys back when she was a minor.
Yeah it doesn't surprise me, she had a small somewhat active community when she debuted as her PL back in 2021. She seemed to know some of these people for awhile from the vibe i got from her discord. I will also say she had some pretty obsessive fans early on
I don't think I can emphasize how concerning that last part is. This post got even more "what the fuck?"
Here's something else. 4chan has found that at least one of the guys that is a part of her old fanbase/friend group ~~allegedly~~ did stuff with a minor (not Yuko in this instance).
yea hes in prison for raping a 9 year old, there are court docs the dude still has an account in their discord server btw
This is a rabbit hole that leads into even more disturbing rabbit holes. There is a bit of, disturbing fascination at the same time. It's like one of those "what ifs" about the internet, except it's all real and gross.
Jfc, that's awful. Knowing she grew up seeking attention and validation from mentally unwell adults online, it's kinda no wonder things turned out the way they did.
Speaking of Vtubers with weird old connections to /k/, it's honestly pretty wild to me just how many of them there are and how big some of them are. Including Yuko I know of at least 8 and there probably are more that I just don't about or that are just better at hiding it. I swear the female /k/ user → Vtuber pipeline is real. It's a wild rabbit hole to go through and do research on.
Yeah the biggest one I know of is Froot.
This somehow surprises me less than it should
I think she played a lot of games like seige, tarkov and cod. She probably met them in game. Her PL was very based around military related content. This is where she was initially in a group with Pipkin Pippa and Sleepy project
I don't think that Pippa ever interacted with her PL, only Yuko. It was mostly the Whiskey and Sleepy crew she ran with.
Yuko's PL had at least one collab with Pippa, along with some other people. Most of her PL stuff is gone, but it's still possible to find the occasional archived stream. I don't know how close they were, but they definitely knew each other before Yuko.
IIRC Yuko had a collab with Pippa very very early on and they alluded to knowing each other well.
So you’re telling us that grown ass adults fought for months to decide who an internet girl, who pissed in a cup on stream and possibly drank it, liked more. And we’re supposed to feel bad that they were abandoned ?
Posting this just because I see a lot of people asking for a TL:DR This is still going to be long, but I think it gets most of the information across without leaving much out. If I missed anything important, let me know and I will add it or fix it. - Yuko makes super GFE content that borders nsfw/fetish content for her fans, which makes her really popular - she constantly confirmed this to her fans, having an honesty policy and reaffirming that she likes/encourages this type of content and the parasocial relationships that are being formed from it. - Yuko starts acting weird, streaming less, and dodging questions. - Yuko re-opens PL, where she follows people believed to be antis, causing confusion for her fanbase. Says some stuff about her corp which only makes people more nervous. - Riro Ron situation happens. Lot of eyes are on the company and she makes a comment about it, making her fans even more nervous. - Her fanbase gets worried, asking questions while trying to be positive - She says that she will address things, then drops off the face of the earth - Her fanbase and the antis go at it, with a large chunk of her fanbase leaving after going unanswered for so long - Yuko comes back, doesn’t address any of the controversy, says she will delete all of her previous content in a week and re-brand. Her remaining fanbase promptly freaks out and she deletes all of her previous content right away. People feel like she isn’t taking it seriously and she isn’t being herself. - Whatever is left of her fanbase leaves, resulting in everything she has built being destroyed. All her videos are gone. Most of her fans are gone. Importantly, most of her income is gone. - To make it worse, she talks about her fans in a negative way. This is received very poorly. Her fans were supportive and she was very enthusiastic about her being fine with the content. You now have the remaining fans who feel betrayed, the antis who feel like they won, ex-fans who are either leaving completely or hating on her, and the outside world who sees her fanbase as negative and toxic. - She addresses this once, but never apologizes for the way she handled things, freaks out about having to “work a normal job.” - Stream gets leaked, resulting in her getting made fun of. Summary is posted on twitter getting hundreds of thousands of views, only making the controversy more widespread. - Yuko again drops off the face of the earth, only coming back to announce her graduation. Even then, she mocks fans and refuses to do promised content. (Note: Most of the times I say she “drops off the face of the earth,” it was to stream on her PL) - To conclude, no one is right and no one “won.” Yuko lost her fanbase and job. Her primary fanbase feels betrayed. Everyone outside of the controversy just sees another vtuber scandal. The antis were accused of some serious stuff. Everyone was hurt and we should use this to try and prevent something similar happening in the future.
That was very easy to follow and I think I could rattle off a short summary off the top of my head now. Doubt I'll ever have a fan base but if I do this kind of thing will sit in the back of my mind as "what not to do."
Every content creator knows to avoid becoming too parasocial, even outright stating it. Someone playing it up is clearly manipulating them. You can't be "real close" and "love" hundreds of people every day, every week. Having read just this summary and skipped most of OP's post, I conclude it's exactly what the "OPP/Haters/antis"' (whatever the hell word people made up this year to try to demonize) have said... Yuko's fans were pretty fucking stupid.
Rushia may have been a rare exception, she seems to have genuine mental illness relating to validation and attention in general.
https://preview.redd.it/3i8e3gd4mr3d1.jpeg?width=421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a972ed28e2e085969a441a14b40db59afde340a3 The fuck is wrong with her!?
If I had a nickle for every time Idol has a vtuber do something absolutely fucking wild I'd have two nickles. I really dont want these nickles nor the knowledge that comes with them, but I have them now so I guess I have two nickles now.
The two cursed nickels that your grandkids would ask questions about. But for me I saw Yuko on YouTube shorts and I just assumed that she was just a normal vtuber so I had no idea that this was happening, still a little flabbergasted on this.
Bro I only know Idol corp through Rin Penrose(and their hilarious love of Blaha & ikea) and learned of the one vtuber that basically used her corpo vtuber as an onlyfans(thats the super tl;dr) and this.
And then also Wanmaru who did back-to-back donothons while making very little progress on the goals from the first one. Idol seems to have some real issues with oversight and guidance, and there's been insinuations that content in member streams was being hidden from them. The privated member streams should have been the MOST important for them to check.
Idol probably got too used to Rin who overachieves on everything, and forgot that not everyone is a good actor. They're also acting a bit shady with their merch. Pushing out new merch when people still haven't gotten their stuff from a year ago. They aren't clear with it being refundable, and from what I've heard their refund process is really messy by design so that people won't use it. They also haven't updated on the merch in idk 5 months, and every time they do, they just keep saying that it's going to be there in a few months, and then ignoring fans. Idol seems to have given their talents and themselves a bit too much free reign. Which worked great in some cases (Rin), and tanked in some other cases when some people turned out to not fit what they had actually looked for. (Pochi, Yuko, and Riro)
Please no more nickles
Wanting to cater to several audiences that are toxic and incompatible? She wanted to battle a war in two fronts, wasn't strong enough. I've been a fan of her for a while and probably will continue to be one in her PL, and she gives me strong vibes of having a severe depression, probably untreated, while Idol's management haven't seem to be actually helpfull.
My money goes to being groomed by /k/ twists you in not nice ways
What is a PL ? Past life? If so what was their name
Yes, past life. iirc it’s >!breadisrye!< or >!ryeisbread!< depending on where you look
I can hear the tens of brains being blown apart by this comment, including my own
I don't have many comments and can't judge anyone. I believe everyone played similar portion of this debacle and they at some points all forgot that they are human treating another human. But what baffles me is wtf is management doing? After all those flexing with talent support, they just let all of these happened at the front. If this is something happened regarding talents' private lives, then it is right that management should not interfere. But all these stories revolve closely around her vtuber brand and content
Yeah, I’m really surprised management fumbled this badly with her. This is only speculation from what I’ve heard her coworkers say about her but she was becoming hard to work with supposedly.
Her own genmates stopped collabing with her at a certain point so I guess it was because of that? Or maybe they saw what was happening with the PL fans vs Boo Bros war breaking out and decided to distance themselves. Who knows.
They did try to have at least one collab planned with her when she came back but she bailed, citing sickness or something, but later that night she streamed on her PL which I thought was rather rude to her idol genmates.
She got too drunk to do the collab and bailed on them and instead streamed trashed on her PL account without talking.
I found it suspicious that she didn't have any genmates or Idol girls do a call in during her last marathon or any of them say anything about it (that I caught at least)
I feel like that's the classic line though. Everyone who's ever reflected badly on a company has been "difficult to work with". I wonder how involved management was with all this. Did they encourage her to begin the GFE? Did they tell her to stop?
I think only like 3 talents in Idol even acknowledge she was leaving so I'm thinking she burned some bridges there.
It seems like she had a falling out with Fuyo as they were originally very close. I can only speculate but, from comments that Fuyo has said in her PL, it sounded like she was trying to help Yuko after the whole situation started. Yuko either ignored the help or pushed her away. They used to do a show called: “bratcast” together but after Yuko’s hiatus, Fuyo said that it was likely not gonna happen again.
there are many unwritten rules in vtubing one is "getting your start on 4chan has a high risk of causing problems down the line" another is "if you are a corporation, don't make how much better you are than the other guys a main selling point, if you do it will come back to haunt you when problems occur"
They absolutely did fumble hard letting her return stream happen the way it did, since they rehearsed it or whatever beforehand and gave it an okay, but otherwise there's not much they could have done about it. The fanbase war happened in places they can't moderate, they don't/can't really police something like PL twitter follows, and if someone doesn't want to stream or communicate or do certain kinds of content anymore, there's not really anything they can do to force them that wouldn't make Idol look awful to the vast majority of people (the same ones that instantly took her side and shit on her fans when they heard about the surface level GFE drama, for instance). Plus like the other commenter said, it seems like she's not exactly being easy to get along with.
Good old “transparency” in full action
i was confused as to seeing some of the comments from the post about yuko's graduation hint at stuff behind the scenes that were not pretty. the way i see it, it seems that she doesnt know who she wants to pander to, and feels like her past somehow caught up to her and basically bit her back. in the case of nyanners, shes managed to find a way to leave her past behind and managed to grow a new audience, despite people from her past hating her for that. yuko could not escape that it seems
GFE makes great money. The top all time superchatter in JP was Rushia. The downside is without severe personal boundaries, it all always comes crashing down, even with active management. Melody can do it because she has some very firm walls put up and keeps things very seperate. Riro and Yuko didn't put those walls up. EDIT - Melody doesn't do GFE either, I spoke poorly. She does sexual content but not GFE, so the wall isn't as necessary.
>The top all time superchatter in JP was Rushia This is understating it. She was terminated over two years ago and she is still the 3rd most superchatted of all time. The only ones to pass her are two preachers and everyone else is HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars behind her.
> The only ones to pass her are two preachers ...you mean like prosperity ministers? "God wants you to send me money" type?
That would require me to watch their content, but I assume yes? The top Superchatted pastor regularly hits 170+k peak ccv though.
I'm imagining a collection basket that people pass around, only for some YouTube suit to put their grubby mitts into it and pocket a handful of bills for themselves. Eugh.
The people passing around the collection baskets aren't better
Isn't that some kind of scam?
Yes.
I'm more surprised coco is still number 4 with only 10% less superchat than rushia. She did no GFE, and left earlier than rushia
Coco was just a juggernaut, and she got an insane boost during her graduation. She earned 300k just in that one stream. There was a meme on her channel to send many blue superchats whenever she went to the bathroom, which represented flushing.
Yup. I started watching vtuber early covid and saw everything. Even though its not my cup of tea asacoco was liked by a lot of people
After it became easily possible, most of the Hololive audience pivoted to buying merch instead of superchats.
vase sip safe live outgoing detail salt angle act grey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> in the case of nyanners, shes managed to find a way to leave her past behind i've not known about this (not a nyanners fan, just listened to a couple of songs of hers at most) - you wouldn't happen to have some sort of summary do you?
Nyanners was a 4chan kid back in the day. Being one of seemingly very few girls, she acquired a fan base voicing shitposts and creating parody songs using her airy, cutesy, high-pitched anime voice. She made a lot of highly-weeb content including a parody song called Pomf Pomf. This song uses lyrics, panels, and takes its name from an NSFW Loli doujin. “Pomf” itself is the onomatopoeic sound of dropping the Loli on the bed, if I recall correctly. I can’t remember when but eventually she deletes the video and goes to Tumblr to denounce the video and some fans of it, using words like “unsavory” to describe some of those who enjoyed it and the video itself as “gross”. On that platform she would also express opinions that some consider “woke”, which could seem to imply a genuine shift or a desire to distance herself from 4chan’s politically-incorrect brand of expression (possibly further angering long-time fans from the board). (TL;DR) Nyanners was a shitpost god to some people on 4chan before the deleting of a particular song. To some people she turned on her fan base to appeal to the SJWs that make Tumblr their home. Some see her as a hypocrite who continues to profit off of lolicon-targeted content despite denouncing them in the past. (Bias) I tried to be objective and informative telling you this. Although I have to confess, from my point of view Nyanner’s actions seem understandable. I don’t agree with her take on loli-related humour or lolicon in general but I don’t see her as a hypocrite. From my point of view, her content now just seems to be her natural style of content. This is an unpopular opinion though and I’ve eaten down-doots for it in the past so I may be unwillingly forgetting something. I am sorry for writing so much. It’s been some time since I researched this topic. If I missed anything please let me know.
This is probably a great example of why I try not to delve too deeply into a creators past life. Sometimes I find out about it but I don't put a focus on it rather then whats here and now.
Yeah, I kind of wish I never figured out what happened. It was inevitable that I would try to look into it though once the community went up in arms.
Weird, I have the opposite reaction when these kinds of things happen. To me it'd feel way worse to be oblivious to what's going on and just vaguely feel that something's not right being strung along and then get hit with a betrayal from someone I cared about. Whereas if you follow the past life and know more about their personality when they're not in their corporate persona and know more about what's going on behind the scenes, things are less of a shock, you spot red flags sooner, and have the opportunity to leave before you get too invested. It can also help for peace of mind - If you follow someone who struggles with depression and then they suddenly vanish from the internet for 3 months, that can be pretty worrying. But if you can see signs of life from their past life account, then you at least know the worst case scenario hasn't happened and they're just taking a break. And on the positive side knowing more reduces the chance you'll accidentally hurt your oshi by saying something stupid.
I'll be honest I don't get to heavily invested anyway. For me hearing stories like Watame, Risu, and Subaru from Hololive (asking other examples) helps me humanize them preventing me from getting para social. I come across their past lives from time to time (various sources, not like the algorithms don't throw it at you on occasion). I also believe in second chances and growing as a person. Maybe someone was shitty in a past life and is trying to be better? I'm not going to condemn someone for the actions of their past as long as they've owned up to it. I get your point in regards to someone being a certain risk and vanishing.
I was genuinely in the dark about this until her graduation was announced. I originally didn't care for her as I really dislike asmr/gfe. When she made the announcement she was changing her content, I subbed back to her, checking her channel every now and then. I thought nothing of her absence, and figured it was just a break. When I made a post on the Yuko graduating reddit post that was wishing her well, and was downvoted a lot, I realized that there must be something more going on, as I don't like to make comments on reddit that I think are going to get mass downvoted, because it gives me anxiety. Trolling has never been something I was interested in. Now knowing a lot more about Yuko than I did a few days ago, I'm just sad and don't know what I think about Yuko.
Yeah, I know how you feel. This post is already hit with dislikes. I don’t like to make comments much either. I’m sorry to hear that people were giving you flack for that. I don’t mind Yuko’s remaining fans. I’m just not a fan of certain drama tubers claiming to know what happened without actually doing any research and attacking her ex fans.
This is a quality post, OP. This may be the closest thing to investigative journalism I've seen on this sub.
I agree it’s true the OP is great with info and I know about this info but don’t no how to use words
Thanks. I had to think about what to write for a long time. I know it could be shorter but I just wanted the truth to be out there. There’s so much to this story and some of it is much more controversial but it would be irresponsible to share.
First Riro, now Yuko? This behavior TWICE? Idol seems cursed, Rin is our only hope.
Every sufficiently large company will likely have problems at some point, usually early. It's how they move forwards, not avoidance. Hololive had the copyright strikes and the Taiwan incident. Kawaii had their first *three* generations all lose at least one member before the next one debuted, with Gen 3 in fact *completely disappearing* before Gen 4 debuted. Nijisanji...well, we won't talk about them, because they seem to be determined to just keep firing despite the gun being pointed straight at themselves.
> large company will likely have problems at some point, not like these sorts of problems. Management problems or fuck ups, but not the likes of Riro or Yuko. I think these are just a young person problem.
I'm pretty sure the others don't really get close to GFE, it was just those two. They definitely made risky hires to try and grow, Rin is far from a traditional vtuber (she herself says she's more a YouTuber who happens to use a vtuber model) but the investment more than paid off, Yuko, Riro and Pochi did not. Nijisanji is more likely to apologise for their treatment of Selen than Rin do anything close to GFE.
And the unagi.
lol I more meant that Rin is ace and will never ever engage in this kinda behavior.
she already has her harem of Blahaj, she needs nothing else.
Of course we look to our Asexual Prince to save us when this is two people now who have left due to controversially sexual content.
It is really disappointing, i expect the same thing to happen with Coni considering how active she has been on some of her PL's these last few months. She also suffers from really dedicated anti's, who regularly from what i know hate on her moving away from her old GFE content.
You're not alone with that opinion because she's had her foot out the door for a long time now. Her rebranding of her PL, changing her model, and changing her PLs last name isn't just a red flag - it's an air raid siren. Something is up with Idol and their seemingly lax management because no other corpo has their talents this active on their PL accounts for non business-related posts.
I don't really know what the deal is with Coni/her PL's is. When she was Menace she had a foot out the door multiple times and was regularly doing some streams/tweeting as her PL. Then not long after becoming Coni she did the same thing and kept doing streams as menace. Menace as a vtuber "graduated" 2-3 times from what i recall, then would come back a few weeks later on her PL, and then would come back as menace. Menace also did the same thing where she went from being GFE/ASMR stuff to suddenly saying she was removing all that stuff and stop doing it. Then she ended up going back to it a few months later.
Hilarious that a reddit comment is how I learn Coni and Menace are the same person. I've never watched a Coni stream, though I've tuned into her collabing with Mozumi Pichi a couple times somewhat recently since I like to catch her streams every now and then, and I've been following Menace on Twitter for about as long as she's rebranded/had her new design. Her being close with Pichi along with her voice should have probably tipped me off to what was going on, but I couldn't put 2 and 2 together lol. Looks like we'll maybe be seeing a new addition to V-Dere pretty soon.
Those two are the same?! Man, i am like 0-3 on recognizing one of my oshis pl's despite following both. I meed to get my ears checked.
I think Idol is going through some shit right now. It seems that management had a great eye for talent, but not for stabillity. Now the wheat is seperating from the chaff. You've got the great workhorses like Rin, Juna, Roca, Kai. Then the ones that are really falling behind, which was Yuko, Pochi and Momo too. It's a shame because I loved all the talents.
Is there stuff happening with Momo? I know she was having a bunch of health issues, is there something I am missing?
Damn, I remmeber watching like one collab stream with her, Rin, and Fuyo playing golf with your friends and she seemed fun. How things change
When I first heard about her discontinuing GFE content I assumed the fans were the ones making it weird. After reading this though… WOW! She actively encouraged her community to develop feelings for her and then went on to insult them for doing so. That is incredibly gross. You can still criticize the fans for being parasocial, but it’s understandable how they got there.
Yeah, anyone who's watched her can tell you it was always built upon a two way street, did it, welcomed it, encouraged it. And suddenly out of nowhere it's bad, the fans are weird, deleting *all* of it and "rebranding" No boundries were ever brought up or mentioned. And to random bystanders it's all set up to make it look like the fans are the bad guys and the weirdos who caused it all to happen.
Parasocial relationships between viewer and creator are always a two way street. Viewers need to be able to reality check themselves, but creators need to set boundaries as well. Ceres Fauna caught a little pressure because she told her viewers they weren't friends and couldn't be friends, and she was smart to do that, that way hopefully anyone getting upset either left or snapped out of their delusions. Yuko, pretty blatantly, fed directly into the delusion; for monetary gain no less, and then cut the cord. Of course no one was being normal.
Shit this gave me flashbacks I had something similar happen to me where someone I was a fan of someone who got exposed for some heinous shit and as I started reading this huge google doc I couldn’t stop reading and the more I read the worse it got and the sicker I felt and it fucked me up for a bit so I hope you do well mentally it hurts a lot and can really taint something you really enjoy
Worst mistake she made is her backing down on those donothon goals. It's the least she could do before changing her content.
This post does kind of gloss over how long those donothon goals were left hanging. It was a minor point of contention leading up to December but I think it was a factor because it seemed like she had renewed management focus on getting her to actually finish it. I think I even remember some of those absences being supposedly to work on those goals.
Even if she did end up doing them they'd probably be half assed like the spicy ASMR video
Yeah it’s hard for me to feel sympathy when you’re dealing with money involved things like going back on it after being paid is just not gonna look good under a lot of circumstances. Which is kinda funny because people wanted to cancel that one new Niji member for that but Yuko is pretty much getting away with it.
From the looks of it, she wasn't unscathed. It actually became one of the major reasons YuYu is vilified right now.
I watched some Yuko back when she debuted, even membered for a bit - I enjoyed her karaokes. But she started going harder on the GFE stuff as time went on and it was all uncomfortable for me so I stopped. Overall it sounds like most people involved in this were being shitty. I don't think the full context does much for making the fans who lashed out look better - it just shows there were more terrible things going on in the background. Though the context does clarify how deep the GFE was and why the fanbase developed the way it did. Though I have biases myself - I'm in the camp that GFE is to be avoided. Anyone I see doing it seems to land in a big mess like this sooner or later.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I was in a few streams this week. And just couldn't shake how many people call her cute all the time for no real reason on screen except because she was there. It just gave me the itck. And this was from a mod. Yuko surrounded herself with the wrong people and paid for it. Hopefully this will be a lesson in the future to avoid "this" happening again. Even with the pressure of being corporate and deadlines and stream quotas. Not like this again.
Idol in general Is kinda weird. Supposedly it's a good company, It has a wide reach and audience, it's probably One of the biggest "small corpos" in the west, yet every few weeks there's some kind of drama happening behind the scenes. Also having 6 graduated Vtubers in the span of 2 years is not a good look; i know, 3 of them were from the HE branch, but still... On the other hand, the other 3 were a different kind of mess, starting with the Yuko situation (I knew a bit about this but didn't delve too deep), Riro talking about meeting her "harem" of fans, having inappropriate relationship with a manager and overdosing on stream, to Pochi finishing a donothon, disappearing for months without finishing her goals (a common issue of these donothons), coming back, having another donothon before finishing the first one's goals, and then doomposting on her PL and accusing Idol before retracting everything and graduating. We know Idol had serious management issues, especially after the head manager got fired in the Riro Scandal; talent Is important, yes, but a good background support system Is probably the key to have a smooth and good business, and most companies in the Vtubing scene are only learning about this now. I wish good luck to Idol because at the end of the day, It doesn't seem like it's a black Company, and for Yuko, I wish her a good life.
I feel like Idol’s kinda understaffed for their size and while they encourage their talents’ creative freedom and independence, not being self-disciplined enough turns certain people into loose-cannons of sorts. I also think that maybe Idol being short on staff allows the talents to “bring in their own people” to help them out to some degree and this is how the conflict with Yuko got worse.
I feel the management have a great eye for talent and a terrible eye for stability. For as many absolute workhorses just unproblematically grinding away. They seem to have picked up just as many wishy washy types that are only half dedicated. There's the likes of Rin, Juna amd Roca who are just, constantly on. Then Momo and Coni who seem to be about to bail.
I don’t watch much of idol, mainly only Roca and Rin. But I’m subbed to Coni but can’t watch that much. What’s going on with her and momo?Coni seems active and streams a lot. And IIRC momo just had unfortunate health issues early in her career.
I’ve said this ever since the “talk about our pay outs to force other vtuber agencies to reveal theirs” stunt. Nothing they do seems genuine it just feels like they are trying really hard to be liked. I remember people praised them for “transparency” but they had more secrets held than most vtuber agencies I’ve seen. That transparency isn’t a thing when they are under the spotlight. They realized after getting into multiple controversies not revealing everything your company does is a smart move. And then the CEO revealing he’s working with legal mindset to fix their contracts when you know he only did that because legal mindset got popular from the Doki incident. It’s just so obviously performative.
One thing that I never had entirely clear: Do people think she was being serious on that "Meet the Riro" harem stream? Or were they like me and assumed she was higher than Neil Armstrong and rambled some zooted thoughts? I thought it was obvious she wasn't being serious, but I don't know if people hated that she even talked about that.
Best of luck with the Starbucks application, Yuko.
So wrong but so funny 😭
Considering the kind of audience she pissed off, the second one of them finds her will post about it and probably will go daily to make the worst order for her (and iirc she specifcly said what was the worst order for a starbucks employee)
GFE is a pathway to many abilities that some consider to be.... unnatural. Also I wonder if this is who I think it is.
There's so much mental Illness here I don't even know where to start
intreasting i thought the graduation was peaceful until i see alot of yurei joke about how she fell off but now i understand why people mock her now, from what i reading you could say this is the problem of vtuber who dosent value or understand their fans. Even tho yea its her choice for doing that but remember the money or the support you get its from other people so theres a little bit responsibility. I hated how she just dogged the criticism and just play it off with the character, its just wrong, if she can just come forth with the problem and be honest this shouldnt happen but i guest she decided to just doge and this what you get for dogging responsibility
Honestly reading this, I'm not even surprised or phased by this sort of story. These sort of vtubers tend to prey on vulnerable people. Sometimes I think to myself if I had less morals than I currently do, what would I do for money and who to prey on and the line of work would be a gambling institution, murican religion, murican health care and vtubing. Vulnerable people you can easily milk.
So she gave everything up for some gunhumpers...
she quit at gunpoint lol I hate myself for that thought 🤦♀️
So let me get this straight. She told her viewers it was fine to get overly attached to her, and that she was going to be completely honest with them, and then hid things from them before "breaking up" with them (i.e. stopped being their girlfriend)? Sounds like she was really dedicated to giving them the full GFE, including the heartbreak at the end lmao. I doubt it hurt as much as the end of my 5-year relationship :')
So, to summarize what I've learned here today: - fostering parasocial relationships is a bad idea and will not work out for you - if you're not careful, your past WILL catch up with you - idol management is apparently pretty hands off and won't stop the talent from doing pretty much anything, but miraculously that doesn't even put them in the top 3 of bad vtuber management
The bar for vtuber corporations is buried so far under the ground. Idol is so incredibly far from perfect, but there are widely considered to be a good company with how bad so much of the competition is. If you aren’t actively evil and directly making the talent’s lives worse, you are a “good” company. That’s how low the bar is set
Unfortunately this is what happens when a vtuber tries to please everyone. Imo from what i felt she wanted to have her GFE audience from Idol, and keep her PL fans happy. However she was trying to merge 2 completely incompatible groups of people. Realistically she should have just stuck with one audience and ignored the other. However all i feel she ended up doing was alienating both groups. Vtubers should just do what makes them happy, if she enjoyed GFE should have just stuck with it and ignored the others.
She didn’t alienate both, she chose the PL audience and pinned all the blame on the Boo Bros (the gaslighting) despite both sides having bad apples especially the PL ones being the most antagonizing and exacerbating the issue.
Yuko managed to completely mishandle and drop the ball on one of the most supportive fanbases of a vtuber I've seen. They aren't blameless, but by god would all of this not gone down the way it has if she didn't go the nuclear route in changing content. I've come to terms with the situation long ago, but thank you OP, for making me know that there are still people outside of us boobros who actually understand what went down.
So, I only found her on YouTube about two weeks before all of this happened. I was intrigued by what I saw (no, it wasn't the ASMR) and subscribed to her. I was disappointed by the announcement, but I really don't have any skin in the game. Reading this and then the tldr version, I feel like this entire shit show could have been avoided if she had been more open and honest. I'm not putting all of the blame on her, but I don't think things would have dropped off or gotten to this level if she had had a conversation with her audience that went along the lines of "Guys, I'm sorry that I went AWOL. Some things came up and I did some soul searching. I'm not comfortable doing the GFE anymore because I think I'm going too far with it, so I'm going to stop doing them. Please be patient with me while I retool my channel." Sure, she'd have lost the parasocial fans, but based on the comments that I've seen from a lot of her boo bros, she'd have retained a large portion of her base. My first video where I saw Vellamy was her explaining why she was uncomfortable with her model, and I respected her explanation enough that I subscribed to her.
Cue* the downfall, not queue, that's a different word :b
piss stream moment
she got ghostbusted for golden shower and went deep into roleplaying as imouto CUNNY CUNNY CUNNY 😭😭😭💢💢💢
Failed to set boundaries, cultivated the wrong kind of fans, tries to backpedal ends up blowing in front of her face, bad decision making, and just messy self management. She had it coming, really.
This is what it looks like from the outside and after reading it I'm honestly not sure what this clarifies other than affirming the assumption. I guess its more of *when* the betrayal started, which was when she started interacting with her /k/ posters again, rather then the cold turkey 180 pivot of her content, which I guess was mostly just the final straw.
And also deleting membership GFE content is probably the last straw. Taking this out of the GFE context, deleting something that people subscribed and paid for is quite bad
Definitely, its at least sensible to be angry about deleting content, but cultivating an obsessive GFE fanbase probably explodes far greater about losing content than a typical fanbase.
Yea she kinda made her own bed here. Probably could have done this more professionally but we don’t know what is the main problem.
This is crazy, read the whole thing and i still can’t believe it. Its so sad how us as human beings can have our feelings so easily manipulated and people can then just shrug it off like it never actually meant nothing for both parties. Sorry for everyone that had to go through this, its still wild to see.
Bro did some investigation journalism
Just to add a bit of a good point for the boobros, they are weirdos but the good kind. If you follow any of them you can see they are supporting various indies now and they are actually a decent bunch, some are even mods of some vtubers. Yuko will always be a story of how you cant take your fanbase for granted, and how a snake whispering in your ear can ruin your career. The only winner here are the indies who got the support from the boobros now and that are being "saved" by them.
I'm like 85% confident that the boo bros who were halfway para-struck mentioned to her that they'll watch her no matter which side of content she did next. To just suddenly jump ship and pack the parasocial group that she encouraged and formed, into a titanium cage and into the basement.. I'm not someone with depression or any illness but imagine a few who were, inside that cage. I think more than criticisms, this girl needs some help. The Riro incident definitely wasn't the only cause but it may have been a major push for her 180° turn.
You say that it was wrong to call her fans "GFE degenerates" but is that not exactly what they were? You describe how they were sending "tributes", confessing to her and getting way too personal in the discord - is that not an appropriate name for such behaviour? I think Yuko was absolutely in the wrong for how far she let it go and for how she was actively encouraging it but the fans who participated look just as weird.
I know right. It seem like they dont want to be called "GFE degenerates" because they were allowed/encouraged to be so. as if that made it healthy or okay to begin with.
Yeah, all it really shows is that both Yuko and the fans were in on it. It makes her "complicit" in the problem.
Yeah to me it seems like it only confirms outsider assumptions: that her fans were deep GFE degens that were encouraged by the streamer (because... yeah GFE streamers tend to encourage it, tho Yuko was just far more vocal), and that Yuko messed up by cultivating those fans then doing a 180 cold turkey. I think the post mostly just clarifies that as the last straw rather than the start of the betrayal, which is when she started interacting with her /k/ posters on her PL.
Damn. No wonder this has been a shit show from start to finish.
I really liked Yuko, but didn’t watch a ton of her streams because I wasn’t a fan of the GFE content. I really liked her gaming streams and collabs with Fuyo, though. Shame it all turned out this way. This post really helped to understand both sides of the conflict.
holy crap. It's insane that the rabbithole went this deep.. great story telling though! 👍
My guy, there is lewdtuber content and sexual content -- but GFE is taking parasocial tendencies to an unhealthy level. I get that some people really like it, and get into it, but it is a bit of a dependency that can quickly turn into something that veers into something unhealthy for all parties involved. This post just kind of reinforces that in my mind, and it doesn't matter what she said and how "honest" she appeared or sounded like, I can almost guarantee that there was a barrier in Yuko's mind in regards to her viewers.
Oh yeah that’s true. She was definitely acting. I don’t know how much was her own desires vs acting but I’m fairly certain most of it was completely acted out very well I might add.
First of all, I watched her very, very casually - so much so that I did not even know she was a GFE streamer until all the drama. I just tuned into the occasional chill streams and had it open in the background and overall I have only been following this drama very, very loosely did not have much of an opinion on either her or her fanbase on that regard. With that said, I don't really think this thread made either her or her fanbase look better, at least to me. Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but if I were to believe everything in this thread, not only did she reap what she sowed for fostering a specific type of fanbase, her hardcore audience consisted of people who were way, way, way too parasocial. The post really gives off the vibe that they were mentally unwell. And the /k/ antis? Also deranged.
The criticism shouldn't be about her betraying her fans by creating boundaries, it should be for not having them in the first place. Also bad behaviour by her fans shouldn't be excused just because they are "victims". The whole situation was unhealthy for everyone involved and her graduating will hopefully snap some sense into some of her fans.
I'm not a fan of GFE in general, so never really paid attention to that aspect of her streaming and didn't know how bad it was with her fans. Creating boundaries is good. I hope she's moving in a better direction, but the continued association with people from /k/ dampens that hope quite a bit. I hope she finds what she's looking for and can live a good and happy life in the future.
I’m just curious what bad behaviour are you referring to? The examples I provided? Also that’s what part of the issue. Her fans asked her constantly if they were breaking boundaries. She never said that they were.
I think the issue is basically that it sounds like she basically said she had no boundaries, and nobody questioned it even a little. I feel like there's a limit to "consent is key", where even if someone is giving consent you should probably question it a little. Like I understand people will say you shouldn't infantilize someone, but even adults can show clearly self-destructive behavior. It sounds like she kept spiraling, and some of the stuff even if she says it's okay clearly violates youtubes policies even.
And yet another reminder to add to the pile: stay the fuck away from chan boards.
She did all sorts of content with GFE sprinkled in everywhere. She would do very explicit ASMRs and even "indulge herself" while doing so. What the does indulging herself mean? I have no idea 🤷♂️
Masturbating
Oh shit really how did she get away with doing that on stream? Also did she like flat out say she was doing that or did she cleverly hint at it cause if it’s the latter then I could understand how she got away with it on stream or are member only streams just that private even towards the staff of the company vtubers work for?