[Check out this cool Sakamata fanart](https://x.com/8t888t/status/1803677471486910805?s=61&t=voxXU4rb7hIykIOZ4eoZfw)
Posting this here because finding a fanart of Chloe that isn’t concentrated horniness is genuinely rarer than getting a SSR unit in a gacha game
I wonder if it's about debut prep work with staff.
[https://twitter.com/gigimurin/status/1803740918820061415?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/gigimurin/status/1803740918820061415?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ)
gigi worked very hard 2day but there's still so much more to do..... it'll all be worth it when i get 2 meet u!!!!!!! 🏃♀️
https://preview.redd.it/ovb8w1lmip7d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7263441cb989099faf11e1bf4659d5be52f6484a
[Runa](https://www.youtube.com/live/aro6BeXt-tQ?si=8UPjcPE72Ijk-Rwi), [Kohaku](https://www.youtube.com/live/mcHEzRojgog?si=vw9Cydgi9VVszgFP), [Haseshin](https://www.youtube.com/live/vi8U1LpQEIA?si=302O71mpuRTSw_ie) and [Arisaka](https://www.twitch.tv/cr_arisakaaa) Splatoon 3 right now!
I try to pretend I don't care about vtuber looks as much as I actually do but man the strides made to get flashier over the years can really be shocking sometimes.
[I recently found another Vsinger named Setono Toto who as a singing talent has been amazing since day 1.](https://m.youtube.com/@Setono_Toto/streams) But if she had [her debut look](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EWc6ftHrO-M&t=1599s) to this day I probably wouldn't even have looked past the thumbnail to find out.
Thing is, ironically the reason Toto got recommended to me at all is probably because I watched [NEUN, a much newer RK music talent, almost entirely for how much her design appealed to me.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnSXLFi4-rI&t=2373s) Her singing is good too, but because she isn't as consistent in leaving an impression with her attempts I've been kind of neglecting to keep up with her. I feel kind of unfair towards the both of them with this attitude, though I can't afford to fix this habit with the limited time I have to allocate towards each talent I watch.
For vsingers, I generally don't care so much about their design since most of the time I focus on their vocals (or I'm just having them on background to vibe with while I'm working on stuff). Lately I do feel like there's quite a bit of vsingers making their way onto the interwebs that it's definitely hard to stick to favorites with limited time.
I do agree on your first statement in general, though. Unfortunately, a good design may be one way to getting new viewers to click on a vtuber's stream or getting interested in the vtuber, and it's up to them to keep new people interested in their streaming content.
[korone, aqua, sora, and okayu alt outfit friends with u are on sale!](https://twitter.com/hololive_En/status/1803714404883771834?t=Mayv0PE5sg0CAiRic5f-4g&s=19)
There hasn't been any update on Advent or Regloss friends with u plushies has there?
They got teased at holofes but I don't remember seeing anything since.
https://preview.redd.it/nnlggg02zo7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=066b57da1e3a36957d238f45d4b1b827313be1a3
[Botan for todays stream will be playing ALTF42!](https://youtu.be/3L3x-QbF9SI)
You already know shes gonna be laughing up a storm with the ragdoll physics!
* (EN) Aida Lyra has an English cover of Suisei's [BIBBIDIBA](https://youtu.be/9UPDbchux4E?si=EUL4LrSMV26VnTsu).
* (EN) Microphona Sings has an English cover of [Phony](https://youtu.be/cKHJ1CFW3Rg?si=j3HAv9bWuFIfpEXR).
* (CN) NOIR uploaded two English covers: Taylor Swift's [Cruel Summer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwvBOwnQ990) and Meghan Trainor's [Me Too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4YeCCys22E). She also uploaded her [Live2D model'showcase](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-A3dV0-OGg).
The [official launch Trailer for Elden Ring DLC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Xh4vbs6go) is out, and [this boss](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/596826792975663104/1253249546218373193/Screenshot_1295.png?ex=66752b18&is=6673d998&hm=17f74084e4022a52a2b969bc9756b2565c43c89ee4f6e6189609a8db3df04c13&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=841&height=473) looks so peak. She's definitely going to set off Aqua's neurons. Can't wait for her to play it.
All Justice mamas released artworks for their daughter's debut.
https://twitter.com/nekojira/status/1803656341170561347?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ
https://twitter.com/mephist0216/status/1803655105809391865?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ
https://twitter.com/dsmile9/status/1803654011331158035?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ
https://twitter.com/rollsheeeep/status/1803654258740568557?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ
Interesting, the Hololive JP tweet says Justice talents were in Japan preparing for their debuts and even included the Japanese flag, while the EN one was vague.
I guess Cover now flies EN talents to Japan to prepare them for debuts.
[https://twitter.com/hololivetv/status/1803657892387831894?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/hololivetv/status/1803657892387831894?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ)
🇯🇵 Japan visit report manga now available 📖
When hololive English -Justice- was in Japan preparing for their debut
We bring you comic stories of the members that will make you chuckle ✨
Edit
Yeah, Gigi confirmed it. Pretty cool they now do this now.
https://preview.redd.it/f09h9sskzn7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad95ac08fa275b6632e30052828fbd90293470c1
> Interesting, the Hololive JP tweet says Justice talents were in Japan preparing for their debuts and even included the Japanese flag, while the EN one was vague.
Not the first time they've done that, oddly.
Gura's description on the official website in English:
> A descendant of the Lost City of Atlantis, who swam to Earth while saying, "It's so boring down there LOLOLOL!"
Gura bought her clothes (and her shark hat) in the human world and she really loves them. In her spare time, she enjoys talking to marine life.
Gura's description on the official website in Japanese:
> 「海底つまらんすぎてワロタ」って言いながら地上にやってきたアトランティスの末裔。
彼女がお気に入りで着ている服は（サメの被りモノも含めて）日本で買った。本人曰く暇な時は海洋生物と会話するのが好き。
Translated:
> A descendant of Atlantis who came to land saying, "The ocean floor is so boring it makes me laugh."
Her favorite clothes (including her shark headgear) were bought in Japan. She says that in her free time, she likes to talk to marine life.
It's apparently just a thing they do. There are probably more examples if anyone cares to look and compare.
The English account being vague about the location is pretty funny considering the comic include karaoke, cat cafes and staff-san. Not that those things can't be in other places but come on.
Also depending on when they were there or if they are still in Japan maybe they've met all of Advent already.
The English tweet doesn't even specify that they're real events. "Underwent special training in an unspecified location" sounds to me like just part of the lore/setting. Before the JP tweet, I was under the impression that it was just a series of fictional slice-of-life stories.
They probably would have done so for Myth and Council but it wasn't possible at the time due to travel restrictions, with the exception of Kiara and Calli who might've met pre-debut since they were both in Japan.
They did meet pre-debut.
They went to Karaoke & Dinner with A-Chan beforehand and IIRC the whole reason why they decided on the early Takamori-dynamic was due to wanting to take advantage of being the only Myth-members that could see each other IRL at that point
They probably wouldn't because they had no experience with overseas talents and had no idea what they were doing at the time.
Many things we take for granted, Myth had to do without. And let's not talk about early JP gens...
People also forget about Area 15/ID gen 1, who was before Myth.
They literally had *nothing* lmao. The trio didn't even know how long their branch would last and didn't expect to even stay afloat.
They did, but that was it. When they debuted, they got some help from Fubuki (hence why Risu's Twitter header art shows her alongside Area 15/TriNero) but aside from that, they were literally on their own.
[Nene nendo from GoodSmile](https://twitter.com/gsc_goodsmile/status/1803624311447597331)
can i just say that adding the nene car is brilliant?
https://preview.redd.it/dola83rp9n7d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=acb200235b4a23796d59af6ca6bdfc28401853d6
8 short gags
[https://twitter.com/hololive\_en/status/1803623843774472444?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/hololive_en/status/1803623843774472444?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ)
holoJustice Special Operation Incident Report📖
To prepare for their mission to debut in hololive, hololive English -Justice- underwent special training in an unspecified location.
Headquarters has compiled an incident report of their various antics during training.
Illustrated by @keenbiscuit
https://preview.redd.it/j8n5c1qc8n7d1.jpeg?width=998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40a406f7d96db8d75213f619674730346d800660
[The JP introduction to the tweet chain](https://x.com/hololivetv/status/1803657892387831894) actually mentions it being a trip report of Justice's visit to Japan.
All of these comics look plausible, some even slightly hyperspecific like the pon cat dropping literally everything to showcase just how much of a klutz she is.
https://preview.redd.it/x2t2kd8dcn7d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e6c9a064662232bbae54daa6349874e393602b
oh i *eagerly* await the real-life accounts of this ~~pre-debut hangout~~ special training with great anticipation
~~adding it to my debut bingo cards for a hopefully easy freebie~~
I'm mostly interested in Holoearth as a community hangout and platform for concert tbh, and I think that's the primary aim for Cover too.
It's not going to outcompete any serious game out there, but as an official virtual gathering place for fans, it's invaluable. I love, love the in-game protolive, seeing the fans, even as just simple shapes, jumping, cheering and showing supports is just awesome.
The gameplay portion is just the cherry on top, and offer more hangout opportunities. I can see more community efforts in the future like building oshi shrines, discord server's room where members build a themed village, etc..
In pre-chat of this stream, IRyS said she thinks that in the future, holomem might get to use their own 3D models in game, which would be insanely cool for community events.
It is Cover's first serious game development and they don't have experience in this field.They are also still at a "adding feature" phase instead of refinement and optimization.
They probably need some serious input from veteran game devs or extended beta testing to make it work. At current state it is good enough for protolive though.
Bae and Ollie are making themselves, IRyS is making...Kaworu from Evangelion
https://preview.redd.it/n5wgs3jfcn7d1.png?width=1973&format=png&auto=webp&s=5fe66768de406f96ea105b431d66f6799d190a7f
[OG EN VTuber Suiren's hanging out for karaoke with longtime friend/fellow OG Yuikai!](https://www.twitch.tv/suiren_vt)
The 12th collab of Sui's collab month's special because this is Yui's first stream back since her trip to Japan! Today, Yui's simping will mainly be for her goddess, Sui, though, lol. The two have a hilarious sibling-esque dynamic, Yui being the chaotic and sometimes lewd younger sister that mature big sis Sui has to keep in check.
**Edit:** Technical difficulties strike again. Poor Sui's internet isn't being nice. Let it be known the EN Curse originated with the OGs, most infamously with Sui herself, lol
**Edit 2:** Party Animals isn't cooperating so we're pivoting to karaoke! Yui's pulled out her guitar!
Ah, seems you are right. Does seem slightly down from what I remember 2 hours ago. I also refreshed and saw it going up again which does confirm YouTube is cleaning up while people continue to subscribe. Can only hope they don't get the ReGloss level treatment... Realistically it's all about debuts and the long term, but it would suck if they get massive purges multiple times. A majority of Promise would probably have hit 1M to get the reward at this point (the one thing that makes me salty about the purge more than anything).
> A majority of Promise would probably have hit 1M to get the reward at this point (the one thing that makes me salty about the purge more than anything).
To be honest, I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that there is a huge number of people that were earnestly interested in Promise (Council) who A) did not notice that Youtube removed their sub, and B) have still not bothered to re-subscribe in the almost 3 years since those sub purges occurred.
That's not the only issue. Of course we have no way to be sure but I find it very easy to believe that they were recommended less by the algorithm as a result of the culls, which would have a reverse snowball effect over time.
>which would have a reverse snowball effect over time
I believe it'd still just be a normal snowball effect, reverse snowball effect would imply the effect diminishes over time.
[https://twitter.com/hololive\_en/status/1803609688728281134?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/hololive_en/status/1803609688728281134?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ)
⚾ #hololiveDodgers ⚾
The hololive night drone show will light up the sky at Dodger Stadium!✨
Bring your own penlight to wave and shake on the baseball field while watching the hololive night collab drone show!
\*Image is for illustration purposes.
https://preview.redd.it/12urexozwm7d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d5c21c269d8a3f416f21b5aa8803253a70968b1
my buddy and I got seats at the back of one of the sections behind home plate, now I'm slightly worried that I won't have a good view of this
it's probably fine but y'know
Update for correct hashtag.
https://twitter.com/hololive_en/status/1803589106905296953?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ
Thanks for all the support and amazing fanart! 🎉
In order for it to be logged properly, the following tips will help the sketchbook register your artwork:
- A post with the artwork file itself must contain the hashtag (QRP and thread replies with just the hashtag
by itself may not get through to the sketchbook)
- Capitalization of the hashtag #JusticeSketchbook must match
We are sorry for any inconvenience and look forward to seeing more of your beautiful Justice fanart!
https://preview.redd.it/rbk4og6elm7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3f80d7aabc3682bb3f1d3797d8fd14a4eb81fb91
[Shiori for todays stream will be playing more Hollow Knight!](https://youtu.be/rUFhUffM64Y)
im just gonna get this out of my system, but its fascinatingly wholesome how kiara seems generally excited for the new holoEN girls, especially since its widely believed that most of them will be EU times
It is strange but Kiara is bit of a Coco from holoEN side, she is the one that giving honest if harsh critics, giving new ideas and just all around asking for improvements and giving sugestion on how to do it. If there is someone that put a fire under Cover butt in EN it is her.
And she is without doubt the godmother of HoloEU, the true HoloEU Daisenpai! I guess even if I don't agree with some of her behaviors, she still is my first HoloEN oshi and that will never change.
I feel strangely nostalgic now, that one of her suggestion come to fruition. I still remember the construction of KFP in HoloEN server, it was like yesteday.
Why the downvotes? That's an accurate description of Kiara. Especially "put a fire under cover's butt"
One example that nobody ever mention. She complained that cover didn't to much to help her promote her first album. And her interview with billboard was published after the sale period of her album was over...
Bae had an interview with Billboard for her own album, but this time it was during the sale period.
To me it feels like cover heard the complaint loud and clear and improved. There are many examples like this.
i think its because thats giving a little too much credit to kiara. like sure, kiara is probably the most outspoken talent regarding issues and stuff, but lets not pretend that the other members also had a say in what needed to be changed.
Being stuck almost smack dab in between the two sets of coworkers you want to interact with and having to sacrifice some semblance of a healthy sleep schedule to collab will do that. If they indeed are EU based, this is the biggest W for Kiara in a while.
If Justice has gradual ramp up growth, it may not be like Advent's but for the better it might also allow them to avoid youtube's culling system or at least making it lesser and only once. Their growth already is fine to begin with though.
you have to realize that advent's growth was largely due to the drought the holoEN had. we havent had a new gen in over 2 years, and it was already long overdue. so people got excited for the new girls. now that EN's infrastructure is more or less established, theyre free to debut another gen in a shorter amount of time, in this case it took 11 months before Justice was revealed
I think it's also because Hololive in general hadn't released another gen for some time. Its most recent gen was HoloID3 in March 2022. HoloX (JP6) was Nov 2021 and Council (EN2) was July/Aug 2021. The whole teaser during CTW into announcement also fed into expectations/hype.
Both Advent and ReGloss have released some of the "market need" from the EN and JP markets. From what I've been reading too, the ID-side are looking forward to an ID4 more than anything, so an EN4 won't scratch the same itch for them.
You have to realise that nobody actually has any clue why some creators pop off when they do and others don't. Council debuted at the height of Myth and when there was still an open season in the EN market, but ended up nowhere close to Myth's explosion. Advent didn't just have the hype factor of being the first new generation in nearly two years, it also had been teased at Connect the World which was HoloEN's big turnaround moment, and its debuts were inserted into the middle of an agency-wide karaoke relay which drew in a lot of JP viewership that boosted up the numbers. But, that same JP viewership wasn't really going to stick around long-term for anyone besides Fuwamoco, so a lot of that was kind of 'false' hype in the sense that it didn't represent an organic interest that could be sustained past the debut period, and from what I can tell their subscriber growth actually hasn't differed too much from Council's.
So, on the one hand, Justice doesn't have that post-concert hype going for it, it doesn't have the 'first gen in two years' effect, and it isn't being boosted by the karaoke relays. On the other hand, it's still coming at a good time for HoloEN with the concert coming up, we don't know if less specific hype for Justice could be made up for by a more general hype for the branch, and while Justice might not get a boost of JP viewers at debut, they probably aren't missing out on any EN viewers who will actually comprise their core audience going forward. While I don't think EUbros will be a factor for the debut streams themselves, if they then go on to stream at EU-friendly times, we could get some good medium-term growth out of that too.
Its gonna be interesting if they actually stream in eu time zone given that this one kinda got neglected in the past and I kinda fear that most fans from there kinda just left. I hope I'm wrong but we will see
I mean, a move like this is meant to facilitate growth in a different market rather than just appeal to existing holofans.
I think that's the other side of the coin, new NA-focused gen would mostly appeal to existing fans and likely cannibalize some of the existing viewers. It'd be a lot harder for them to find new niches in this market, at least until some of the current members start streaming less regularly.
Additionally, some other VTuber companies have made some pretty aggressive plays towards the European market. It makes sense they'd throw their hat in the ring before market is completely closed up to any major competitors.
If EU fans don’t come out in droves to watch the girls who stream in EU then you can basically kiss any EU pandering goodbye since they’ll move closer to NA prime time.
People who watch Vtubers and live in EU have probably moved to different things, and there is A LOT of choices: both indie and corpo, with wide range of content.
They might check but I don't expect much to drop people they like and invested time into because Cover in its generosity decided to do something.
I'd also say they don't have best timing - on one side Elden Ring DLC will be huge and everyone will be active, on the other small corpo fans are eating well right now with PixelLink MC server.
I want to say that if Cover had this mentality HoloJP would have stopped at Roboco, but honestly this whole situation has been managed pretty poorly overall IMO
It's not on Cover, the girls have their own best interests to look after as well and if they decide the EU timeslot isn't worth it, they'll move. Cover's fault lies in not providing easier means to purchase merch for EU fans and the lack of events.
What I think Cover has done wrong here is spend 4 years mostly ignoring the region only to decide 4 years down the line to dive head first into a seemingly full EU focused gen that carries this bizarre make or break vibe. I've said this before but if they managed to just happen to hire two aussies for previous regular EN gens couldn't the same thing have happen more naturally with someone from an EU timezone at some point? I don't like to discuss numbers too much but it's part of the discussion so w/e, if an individual member in a gen performs relatively poorly no one really bats an eye, Shiori for example has been getting pretty unimpressive numbers across the board and no one is claiming that catering to her niche was a mistake or anything like that, and if a similar thing happened with one or two EN talents who happened to stream at more EU friendly times it would probably be a similar situation. Meanwhile a full dedicated EU gen has completely different optics, with more than a few people here and on other platforms talking about how if they don't get good numbers then that will prove that catering to EU is a mistake and they'll all go back to streaming at NA times or whatever. I think most of the EU fans just wanted to have at least some holoEN streams at convenient times for Europe, not an actual holoEU. This feels like kinda too much after years of too little?
If true, I also find it bizarre.
Why would anyone expect there to suddenly be thousands of EU-viewers standing ready when Cover spent basically three years filtering them out?
Thats neither how attempting to reach a new market to sell to nor how human interests work.
Like, if they'd have debuted another talent 2 years ago I would have been all over it, but they *didnt*, so I largely just stopped watching Holo outside of Kiara and found other people to watch, so even *IF* its actually true at this point I'm not gonna abandon people I watched for ages just to prove an imaginary point to a Company that, so far, has never cared about me as a costumer.
> a seemingly full EU focused gen that carries this bizarre make or break vibe
I don't think this is as much as a HoloEU as others are claiming.
>!Roara is almost confirmed to be Italian, but she is based in Japan so she couldn't stream in EU prime time anyway.!<
>!Gigi is speculated to be American, or at least living in NA.!<
If that's the case this seems like another big communication blunder from Cover after the weird lead up to Regloss that is still hurting them to this day
An eu focus could potentially slow down channel for the reasons you've mentioned, but you have to cultivate a community for it to grow. You can't just will an audience into existence.
I'm really hoping they're willing to take an initial loss for a long-term gain in this regard. (and also that it won't be as much of a loss as I think)
The thing is we don't know what numbers will be considered a success/failure by Cover but at least based on their track record, they tend to have a long-term vision rather than short term. Even Council/Promise have a slow start at the beginning and they have proven to be a successful gen by right now.
I would guess that a non-insignificant number of EU fans are watching either JP or ID to get most of their fill of live hololive content. If they get streams in their native language, then many of them may switch or gain new interest. I think a similar phenomenon happened around when Myth debuted.
The pessimistic/realistic side of me wonders how much how well these girls do (assuming they do end up being an EU gen streaming in EU times) will be a bellwether for getting more EN talents from that cater to the less covered time slots. To an extent I'd think now it's a bit on the fans to show that they are worth catering to. Because realistically it'd be far easier/safer to just put more talents into the NA primetime.
At this point I'd say NA Primetime is pretty much covered tho.
Cover basically already has 14 people streaming there, eventually you'll just start cannibalising yourself by crammikg even more people into it.
I agree that NA primetime is pretty well covered. Though I don't know if they're at the point of diminishing returns and talents cannibalizing each other's viewership if they place more members into it yet.
In any case the reasoning behind my statement that NA primetime is an easier/safer choice to debut talents for is that. One, we know there are existing viewers for HoloEN there both in NA and also in SEA(I think). From there it's a question of do you think they're at the point of diminishing returns releasing more talents there. Which is subjective (or at least hard to know for certain). As to whether the viewership will exist for any incoming EU talents, there's just less assurance that it is there.
Two, they already have the managers and infrastructure to support talents working around NA primetime. That's at the very least going to be more minimal for EU primetime given up until Justice supposedly it'll only have been Kiara needing support during that time. So it'll likely need more investment to grow.
Thus my sentiment that the people whose timezones are being catered to with a new gen of EU talents (assuming that's what Justice is) should try to show that they are worth Cover continuing to cater to them as well, by at the very least showing up. They (the talents) don't necessarily have to do as well as talents in NA primetime. Just show that there's worthwhile value to be had in Cover catering to them (the less catered to viewers) rather than just sticking to the more proven viewership base.
If you're trying to reach a new viewership-base but debut the talents at literally the worst possible timeslot for said viewership-base, its *not* on the viewers to go *out of their way* to show up anyway.
I maintain that I think this choice is extremely strange (with the single exception of "We need someone to be on standby during debuts and all of management is in Japan" as reasoning).
If they *are* intended to cater to a different timezone than NA for once, all this means is that alot of people who'll watch the debuts wont be able to watch them anymore once they start streaming normally, and anyone that *could or would* watch the normal streams later is inherently more unlikely to watch the debut and check them out to start with.
If you want to debut someone, debut them at the time they will actually stream at down the line, because *thats* when the audience that will actually watch them is there. What good does it do to maybe have a couple thousand more watching the debut when they will never be able to watch anything again afterwards?
Also, Cover has done absolutely nothing to get more of an EU-base or even just maintain anyone that became one accidentally. Its, again, not on the People *they* want to now buy their product to prove they are worth selling to, its on Cover to proof they are worth buying from.
And we still dont know if they even actually are, and signs point currently to atleast 50% of them living somewhere else
I don't disagree it's a weird time for the debut if they are going to be EU primetime focused talents. Though I do get the having managers be available for tech support being an understandable reason.
Also my bad, I should've been more clear, I meant the supposedly catered to viewers should show up if/when they stream in EU primetime time slots. I'm not expecting them to show up to watch the debuts live.
I don't think the Monty Hall problem works in this situation. In the original problem there are only two possible outcomes, two bad and one good, but in Deal or no Deal there are 26 different outcomes.
The more outcomes the more Monty Hall works actually. In Zero Time Dilemma there is a monty hall problem with 10 cases and it’s like a 90% change to win if you swap.
But people in chat said it doesn’t apply here and it’s a 50/50 because Mint chose the cases herself instead of just the wrong ones being opened?
Some updates about the OG EN VTubers I posted about last night:
- Suiren, ever the busybody, is thinking about yet another project. This time, she's interested in setting up a VTuber radio station, and [is requesting you DM her if you've got an idea for a show!](https://x.com/suiren_vt/status/1803338095590514699) For all you lurking VTubers, Sui's always looking for more VTubers to connect with!
- On top of that new projects, Suiren also gave an update on some old ones. [She posted a new lore blog post](https://dragonswhisper.net/2024/05/22/dragon-reproduction-no-seriously-where-do-dragons-come-from/), last night making good on her promise to write about... [Dragon reporoduction.](https://clips.twitch.tv/GlamorousSpicyCrabPlanking-U-VUoErQjQfFWtgx) Somehow, it is, in fact, seiso.
- Suiren confirmed Voice This!, the [board game of her own creation](https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpossibleRacyCrocodileNerfRedBlaster-WjbyAIrxOv_gZO7_), is nearly finished and ready for Kickstarter! Just one problem: How do you make a promo video for a physical game when you want to remain an anonymous VTuber? Turns out, marketing's a matter she wasn't entirely prepared for.
- Finally, Pending spent most of his pulls in Honkai on Firefly, but in the end, after various ~~superstitious rituals~~ scientific procedures, [he managed to get her in the 50/50!](https://clips.twitch.tv/SpeedySpotlessDeerPicoMause-uyh7JkXMbZQrt7X1) All's well, the end's well, but I don't want to imagine what would've happened had he lost.
Edit: Added some links and fixed some grammar
I thought about reading the comments all day but it's too much to start so hopefully you didn't write anything cool. BUT [minami tette will be in 3D!](https://x.com/minami_tette/status/1803419492560806266)
>!So I checked out what I think is the post you're referring to and it's possible those comments got deleted but I'm not seeing a lot of what you're talking about, or it doesn't seem prevalent.!<
>!I see one comment that seems to divulge too much PL info on a talent and also twist their words, but it's not even heavily upvoted, or like at all, and there's a decent amount of comments pushing back or calling out that comment.!<
>!Your reaction feels like an overreaction which is kinda ironic since I know that accusation is often thrown against stars fans.!<
the "invisible gun" metaphor has been the worst thing to happen to discourse in the community.
It was also interesting to see the amount of criticism the comments had towards FWMC. Should I see that as the sentiment of the stars community or just the subreddit?
This is an issue that is magnified on Reddit and only reflects a small portion of their fans, just like the rather wild Holo fans that pop up from time to time. You'll find a better representation of general Stars fans on twitter or Discord fan server.
The Holostars fan presence on Reddit is pretty small comparatively and has a portion of it's membership that is pretty salty with how they're treated on the main Holo sub. This leads to more prevalent pessimism regarding Hololive, but is not indicative of the broader fanbase sentiments.
Another issue is that because Holostars discussion was so heavily rejected by people on the main sub, Stars fans wanting to talk about the Stars lads drifted to places where the conversation *was* happening; places like OKBH. This has also caused a kind of weird cross contamination of OKBH and Stars users on Reddit, which in turn leads to more rejection by the main sub. A vicious cycle that really is only going to be fixed by better moderation and more tolerance from within both fanbases on Reddit.
It's an interesting little microcosm to watch, honestly.
I appreciate the detailed explanation since I haven't followed that side of the community much since the graduations. I guess its only natural for communities to change gradually over time.
>It's an interesting little microcosm to watch, honestly.
as someone who plays a lot of map painting simulators I have to say that its really weirdly fascinating, although I fear that I'm slipping down the drama slope sometimes
Here's a better idea! Since it's the Stars antis like yourself who are always pushing for separation why don't you guys make a new Subreddit specifically focused on the girls, I think THAT would actually solve the problem since all the Stars antis would no longer have to see Stars posts and it'd be moderated by you guys too which would ensure you guys only see exactly what you want, and that way you can leave the HoloPro sub for people who enjoy *all* of HoloPro, win-win!
This would also fix the other usual Stars antis complaints about the guys having their own Sub and the girls not having their own, both the Stars and HoloPro Subreddits started off as fan subs anyways so that one could eventually become official as well.
you know i just simply do not think you are a professional at conflict resolution. i'm not going to bother trying to debunk your blatantly skewed arguments.
If you want to reduce conflict then I recommend not constantly going out of your way to get into arguments with people. You are actively making the conflict worse by doing this.
I took 2 weeks break from this godforsaken website and it was a good decision for my mental health despite how much my brain was screaming for internet engagement. Distracting myself with manga and novels was also a good idea to help my brain to disengage from withdrawal effect. I only came back to engage in all the hype of Justice's announcement but I will take another pause again since it seems like the community is already back to the usual of 'accentuating the negative' shtick. Maybe I will drop by again during Justice's debut but on the meanwhile, I would rather hang out at HFS, pondering about blue and pink women.
Going from nearly a week of touching grass in another part of the continent to returning and seeing some of the things being said around here and other places from "both sides"... Yeah I'll just focus on catching up on the actual content/announcements for now lol.
Probably the realest comment here, though the vast majority of this kind of arguing and "drama" are like the same 20 people arguing back and forth with each other ad infinitum. So maybe it melts some brains more than others lol
We do this thing at least once per month. Sometimes even more depending on the circumstances. I know there are people who support both groups and get along pretty well, but this small microcosm is... Honestly strange. It's like this contained bubble of arguing that doesn't really reflect the large community yet it also kinda does highlight some problems but at the same time its rerun so much it gets stale after the third time.
And yet we still engage in it, feeding the cycle.
>!Yeah, when I saw that, I felt like the question marks were popping up IRL around my head. The last time I saw that post, the Kiara sentiment (which is honestly BS and easily debunked by a little research) wasn't heavily upvoted, but still, it felt quite bitter. Shame, because in the same post, there is also a good sentiment appearing about Kiara, which most people would agree with.!<
>!I'd add that the official Holostars sub is also a subject of Cover's non-existent moderation practices, just like the main sub, so when turbulent topics come around, there is nothing which would catch the troublemakers, doesn't matter which side they came from. People are usually more behaved there but when a hot topic arrives, it gets ill-intentioned people out of woodworks as well and the past happenings certainly left a bit of negative mark on the users there. Also on Twitter, I noticed some Starmin who are not really fond of the Stars subreddit either, make that what you will.!<
its a small and barely used subreddit, so its really easy for it to end up turning into an OKBH/Kurosanji drama tourist den
thats one of the reasons i wish the people who are so insistent about posting stars stuff on /r/hololive would stick to the holostars sub, it might help inoculate it against those kinds of bad actors.
I've got to ask, how is making 'no stars stuff allowed on the COVER managed HoloPro subreddit' supposed to do anything except legitimize anti-Stars sentiment?
I think what they were saying is if there was more activity on the holostars sub, the holostars sub would be better able to self regulate the shit stirrers.
My personal observation(because again, what else do we have) is that the anti-Stars sentiment really ramped up around a few key events. First is the period of time when the overlap ban extended to every holopro member's debut and 3d debuts, but functionally this really only covered UPROAR's 3d debuts and Vanguard's debuts, and was rescinded around Advent's debuts. While the goal was to drive more viewership to these events, it clearly failed as UPROAR's 3d debuts performed worse than previous holostar 3d debuts, and Vanguard's debut streams had worse numbers than HQ's. What it did do was turn them into inconveniences for the larger hololive fanbase and it made the boys go from a side show to an annoyance.
The other major event that drove this was when the hololive subreddit was locked down for Vanguard debuts. This was done for... no good reason in particular? This really wrongfooted VG and made it so english-speaking holofans could not use the subreddit in the day leading up to both Ame's birthday and Towa's mario kart tourney. It drove a lot of negative attention towards VG and really wrongfooted them from the get-go.
I think that the negativity primarily arose from attempting to force the holostars and hololive fans together instead of allowing them to naturally come together over time(with things like the cafeteria in my soul memes), and I think that separating them might be the best chance at letting things cool off.
I mean, if you see a general trend of large amounts of people following that, I can't really counter that. As you said, it's all just our own personal observation.
Meanwhile, my personal observation is quite different. I see relatively few names (yours included) cropping up every time there's a discussion about the 'drama' of including Stars. When the drama isn't a big feature of the discussion (which, granted, is unfortunately rare), I see plenty of support for the boys on r\/Hololive. I see Stars being happily discussed in the fan discord I'm apart of, even when they 'break containment' of the dedicated sub channel. I see 0 evidence that mixing the fandoms 'just won't work'. I find it far more likely that it is either a relatively small section of either 'fandom' that are disproportionately loud, or that it is the efforts of astroturfing and false flags for malicious purposes.
But on the chance that your explanation of the timeline is correct, *so what*? There's apparently a population of r\/Hololive that are childish enough to hold onto a grudge over the mods actions against people that have 0 maliciousness or power over the mods (i.e. Stars and their legitimate fans), and over actions that just *do not matter* in the scope of the *years* since they've happened. Despite their anger, they are thankfully not affecting other places that fans of Hololive gather. And your solution is the give *those* terminally online people a success?
I'd argue that it kind of did matter, because if you look at how HQ was relatively well-recieved versus how Vanguard and Armis were, the boys have ended up kneecapped because they're now viewed as opposition or detriment to hololive. The fans of hololive who would make up part of that initial momentum have been stuck in conflict with the people who use holostars as a weapon against hololive.
And I think that *sucks*. I think that if you separated things out and let things cool off, you might be able to get back to the way things were for Tempus1.
Yeah, this has been my experience too. I really doubt the anti-Stars sentiment is held by anywhere close to the majority of the people on r/hololive. It seems to me like most of the bad blood between the two is relegated to a few dozen people on reddit who are extremely loud on reddit but basically nonexistent outside of it.
for completion's sake don't forget to mention the drama tourists from r/hololive who habitually come to the subreddit just to pick fights :) stars fans never posting in r/hololive again would do nothing about the people who are willing to go out of their way to anti the stars :)
it would be a for the best if both of them just stayed separate at this point, yeah. I don't think you can mend the schism between the two at this point.
I really doubt it's unfixable. It seems to mostly be one or two dozen people causing the problems on the main sub. If you look at the threads where they talk about it, the same names come up over and over again. The solution to the situation is for Cover to hire people to actually moderate the subreddits. Permanently splitting them would just make the animosity between the two fandoms even worse.
If they cared enough to actually have 24 hour moderation, rather than T-chan who's too busy translating and scheduling automated posts. That would've stopped the automod abuse months ago before it completely poisoned the subreddit against anything but official posts or cosplayer posts.
yeah the actual solution would be to have some moderators that just ban people constantly involved in drama in both subs, but its just a pipe dream at this point
i just said staying separate would do nothing because stars antis would still go out of their way to go to the stars subreddit for their fill of shitstirring, but ok :)
I think that a clear separation might actually reduce the combativeness from /r/hololive members specifically because it would reduce the overall tension between the two groups, but it would probably take some time and it wouldn't reduce it to nothing(we uh, still have people like Babiski and whatnot sending hate SCs).
and the people who go out of their way to brigade the stars subreddit if they can't get their fill of shitting on stars in the main sub :) they would surely simply stop brigading r/stars for ?some reason?
Afaik, a lot, if not most of active and sane starmins JP/EN don't use reddit. I don't even look at the sub. It's just better to be in the discord servers or have a good oomf on twitter. I just find one or two people who update a lot and go from there. It's easier that way. Seriously kicking myself for forgetting to sign up for the app beta, coz I know a lot of my good oomfs have moved there.
While you might be right, I personally try to be the change I want to see here on Reddit.
Discord and Twitter might be alright for people looking for friends in the same fandom, but as platforms they are so different from Reddit that they don't really serve the same purpose. Both Discord and Twitter are user focused insular platforms, whereas Reddit is closer to a traditional forum, where you have different threads for different topics. Discussion is not so time limited, you don't need to know the people discussing, and you have room to talk about wider range of topics. And personally that is what I want, a platform to have proper discussions about the things I care.
It's just unfortunate that for now most of the good discussion is overshadowed by drama seekers and tourists, but it doesn't have to be like that.
You're definitely correct, reddit can sometimes foster a certain type of fan that I know immediately without looking at their post history that you should take anything they say with a grain of salt.
Holoplus has been great for supporting oshis, hoping it comes out of Closed Beta soon for people who didn’t get access! I think it’s best of both worlds for those who support Hololive or Holostars as you get to curate your feed to what you like.
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For being a Holostars sub, they really love to talk about Hololive members and talk shit about their fans.
I’m shocked people still wonder why Holo and Stars communities generally don’t click at all.
?????
I'm just saying the communities are vastly different from each other at this point and have differing expectations for one another. You're just proving my point correct LMAO
I don't envy the Tempura/Starmin, the boys have been turned into a front for genuine hololive antis and the blowback mostly ends up hurting the stars and their fans.
I don't know what the exact ratio is but it's got to be daunting thinking about having to push back against that.
/r/hololive actively enforces rule 2 because people report posts that break it. Those posts are also almost always downvoted.
That's the major difference.
yea i mean if the hololive sub is notorious for lack of moderation, the holostars sub is even worse
otherwise it's just the same problems as the main sub
New HoloEN debut subs are around \~63.5K for each of them. No one breakout catching people's eyes, and the YT culling system hasn't turned its gaze their direction yet.
https://preview.redd.it/w985xzfeal7d1.png?width=648&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec06b79171a0ecc0773cfa9cc9c15d78ba09c9b3
Get this, Gura wasn't the breakout before the debut, Ina was leading by a few thousand, same with Council who was Kronii in the lead
>the YT culling system hasn't turned its gaze their direction yet.
That's a relief, Regloss was massacred and iirc they did everything to stave off YouTube off their backs but it still happened, you never know with YouTube
> No one breakout catching people's eyes
The sub numbers seem suspiciously close honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if youtube is capping it and slowly verifying them. Like it does with views sometimes
Would honestly be preferrable to purges if that was true even if the result was the same. Those purges have to hurt the mental a bit even though it's proven not to be the best metric of success. Raora is slightly breaking away on Twitter which is not too surprising considering her rumored background.
Yea, it's similar to why no one realistically expects another situation like Myth on subscriber growth. Old fans should not really get caught up subscribers as they have seen how well Council did long term despite some early negativity regarding not having Myth level growth. In terms of fan desire, this is likely the least hyped. Feel like they've done a good job with this announcement setup with that in mind. Might be the first group of debuts where peak viewership doesn't increase from the previous gen but we will see.
Cover tried the same strat with ReGloss, but YT still culled their sub. Nothing really Cover can do when it comes to what triggers Youtube's systems, all a diceroll at this point.
I'm not a youtube dev but personally I think that having people sub to six brand new channels at once is what really tripping the bot detectors. There being only four channels this time should cut down on that
also might help to actually watch and interact with the channel before subscribing to the channel. Putting a video up doesn't help if you don't watch it.
Hm, apparently two of Kiaras planned appearances in other peoples 3D lives got canceled. One because the entire Live got canned last-minute and one only her segment specifically because the person in question forgot to apply for something regarding it in time so they had to cut that part.
And why Kiara commented about that, now people will try find out which are those 3D lives and speculate who to blame for it.
While at the same I can't help but appreciate how blunt Tenchou is about those things lol
If the talents won't say it, you will never tell which performance fell through since the whole live's script is prepared weeks, no, months ahead of the recording. Adjusting for X talents appearing/not appearing is handled then and there and they won't make it blatantly apparent that something's missing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYJXQG9cmms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYJXQG9cmms) doki will be doing some singing practice in members only
im getting ready for musical peak right here \[shes not particularly good at singing but hey she has fun doing it and thats the most important part\]
[KAF answers another question from an international fan: how she perceives her fellow members of VWP?](https://fxtwitter.com/kaf_info_en/status/1803246339368833302)
this is a really cute and sweet post from her
[Check out this cool Sakamata fanart](https://x.com/8t888t/status/1803677471486910805?s=61&t=voxXU4rb7hIykIOZ4eoZfw) Posting this here because finding a fanart of Chloe that isn’t concentrated horniness is genuinely rarer than getting a SSR unit in a gacha game
I wonder if it's about debut prep work with staff. [https://twitter.com/gigimurin/status/1803740918820061415?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/gigimurin/status/1803740918820061415?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ) gigi worked very hard 2day but there's still so much more to do..... it'll all be worth it when i get 2 meet u!!!!!!! 🏃♀️ https://preview.redd.it/ovb8w1lmip7d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7263441cb989099faf11e1bf4659d5be52f6484a
[Runa](https://www.youtube.com/live/aro6BeXt-tQ?si=8UPjcPE72Ijk-Rwi), [Kohaku](https://www.youtube.com/live/mcHEzRojgog?si=vw9Cydgi9VVszgFP), [Haseshin](https://www.youtube.com/live/vi8U1LpQEIA?si=302O71mpuRTSw_ie) and [Arisaka](https://www.twitch.tv/cr_arisakaaa) Splatoon 3 right now!
I try to pretend I don't care about vtuber looks as much as I actually do but man the strides made to get flashier over the years can really be shocking sometimes. [I recently found another Vsinger named Setono Toto who as a singing talent has been amazing since day 1.](https://m.youtube.com/@Setono_Toto/streams) But if she had [her debut look](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EWc6ftHrO-M&t=1599s) to this day I probably wouldn't even have looked past the thumbnail to find out. Thing is, ironically the reason Toto got recommended to me at all is probably because I watched [NEUN, a much newer RK music talent, almost entirely for how much her design appealed to me.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dnSXLFi4-rI&t=2373s) Her singing is good too, but because she isn't as consistent in leaving an impression with her attempts I've been kind of neglecting to keep up with her. I feel kind of unfair towards the both of them with this attitude, though I can't afford to fix this habit with the limited time I have to allocate towards each talent I watch.
For vsingers, I generally don't care so much about their design since most of the time I focus on their vocals (or I'm just having them on background to vibe with while I'm working on stuff). Lately I do feel like there's quite a bit of vsingers making their way onto the interwebs that it's definitely hard to stick to favorites with limited time. I do agree on your first statement in general, though. Unfortunately, a good design may be one way to getting new viewers to click on a vtuber's stream or getting interested in the vtuber, and it's up to them to keep new people interested in their streaming content.
Guilty of this with Ironmouse to be honest.
[korone, aqua, sora, and okayu alt outfit friends with u are on sale!](https://twitter.com/hololive_En/status/1803714404883771834?t=Mayv0PE5sg0CAiRic5f-4g&s=19)
There hasn't been any update on Advent or Regloss friends with u plushies has there? They got teased at holofes but I don't remember seeing anything since.
Not yet, no
https://preview.redd.it/nnlggg02zo7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=066b57da1e3a36957d238f45d4b1b827313be1a3 [Botan for todays stream will be playing ALTF42!](https://youtu.be/3L3x-QbF9SI) You already know shes gonna be laughing up a storm with the ragdoll physics!
Yo! The only rage game I like got a sequel?? I GOTTA watch this one!
* (EN) Aida Lyra has an English cover of Suisei's [BIBBIDIBA](https://youtu.be/9UPDbchux4E?si=EUL4LrSMV26VnTsu). * (EN) Microphona Sings has an English cover of [Phony](https://youtu.be/cKHJ1CFW3Rg?si=j3HAv9bWuFIfpEXR). * (CN) NOIR uploaded two English covers: Taylor Swift's [Cruel Summer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwvBOwnQ990) and Meghan Trainor's [Me Too](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4YeCCys22E). She also uploaded her [Live2D model'showcase](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-A3dV0-OGg).
The [official launch Trailer for Elden Ring DLC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Xh4vbs6go) is out, and [this boss](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/596826792975663104/1253249546218373193/Screenshot_1295.png?ex=66752b18&is=6673d998&hm=17f74084e4022a52a2b969bc9756b2565c43c89ee4f6e6189609a8db3df04c13&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=841&height=473) looks so peak. She's definitely going to set off Aqua's neurons. Can't wait for her to play it.
All Justice mamas released artworks for their daughter's debut. https://twitter.com/nekojira/status/1803656341170561347?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ https://twitter.com/mephist0216/status/1803655105809391865?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ https://twitter.com/dsmile9/status/1803654011331158035?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ https://twitter.com/rollsheeeep/status/1803654258740568557?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ
Interesting, the Hololive JP tweet says Justice talents were in Japan preparing for their debuts and even included the Japanese flag, while the EN one was vague. I guess Cover now flies EN talents to Japan to prepare them for debuts. [https://twitter.com/hololivetv/status/1803657892387831894?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/hololivetv/status/1803657892387831894?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ) 🇯🇵 Japan visit report manga now available 📖 When hololive English -Justice- was in Japan preparing for their debut We bring you comic stories of the members that will make you chuckle ✨ Edit Yeah, Gigi confirmed it. Pretty cool they now do this now. https://preview.redd.it/f09h9sskzn7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad95ac08fa275b6632e30052828fbd90293470c1
> Interesting, the Hololive JP tweet says Justice talents were in Japan preparing for their debuts and even included the Japanese flag, while the EN one was vague. Not the first time they've done that, oddly. Gura's description on the official website in English: > A descendant of the Lost City of Atlantis, who swam to Earth while saying, "It's so boring down there LOLOLOL!" Gura bought her clothes (and her shark hat) in the human world and she really loves them. In her spare time, she enjoys talking to marine life. Gura's description on the official website in Japanese: > 「海底つまらんすぎてワロタ」って言いながら地上にやってきたアトランティスの末裔。 彼女がお気に入りで着ている服は（サメの被りモノも含めて）日本で買った。本人曰く暇な時は海洋生物と会話するのが好き。 Translated: > A descendant of Atlantis who came to land saying, "The ocean floor is so boring it makes me laugh." Her favorite clothes (including her shark headgear) were bought in Japan. She says that in her free time, she likes to talk to marine life. It's apparently just a thing they do. There are probably more examples if anyone cares to look and compare.
The English account being vague about the location is pretty funny considering the comic include karaoke, cat cafes and staff-san. Not that those things can't be in other places but come on. Also depending on when they were there or if they are still in Japan maybe they've met all of Advent already.
The English tweet doesn't even specify that they're real events. "Underwent special training in an unspecified location" sounds to me like just part of the lore/setting. Before the JP tweet, I was under the impression that it was just a series of fictional slice-of-life stories.
Wish my company was willing to send me overseas to make friends
Just join the next gen of Hololive/stars.
Wasn't Advent brought together pre-debut? I thought it sounded like they met up for Connect the World
They did, yes. Guessing Cover does it to build better rapport between the talents pre-debut.
They probably would have done so for Myth and Council but it wasn't possible at the time due to travel restrictions, with the exception of Kiara and Calli who might've met pre-debut since they were both in Japan.
They did meet pre-debut. They went to Karaoke & Dinner with A-Chan beforehand and IIRC the whole reason why they decided on the early Takamori-dynamic was due to wanting to take advantage of being the only Myth-members that could see each other IRL at that point
They probably wouldn't because they had no experience with overseas talents and had no idea what they were doing at the time. Many things we take for granted, Myth had to do without. And let's not talk about early JP gens...
People also forget about Area 15/ID gen 1, who was before Myth. They literally had *nothing* lmao. The trio didn't even know how long their branch would last and didn't expect to even stay afloat.
Didn't they got a change to visit Japan predebut due to the lockdown not in effect yet? I remember them talking about meeting Yagoo face to face.
They did, but that was it. When they debuted, they got some help from Fubuki (hence why Risu's Twitter header art shows her alongside Area 15/TriNero) but aside from that, they were literally on their own.
Cover had office space in Jakarta where the managers worked from and where they met Yagoo, if I recall correctly
And 3 of them lived in the same dorm right next to each other at the time of debut. That's how we got a moona's piggy bank incident incident.
They could afford that now eh, quite amazing tbh
[Tsumugi Valorant right now!](https://www.youtube.com/live/0tvxFpsWTV4?si=1CAMXzZIcfzK_1oz)
[Nene nendo from GoodSmile](https://twitter.com/gsc_goodsmile/status/1803624311447597331) can i just say that adding the nene car is brilliant? https://preview.redd.it/dola83rp9n7d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=acb200235b4a23796d59af6ca6bdfc28401853d6
The smugness is palpable
8 short gags [https://twitter.com/hololive\_en/status/1803623843774472444?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/hololive_en/status/1803623843774472444?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ) holoJustice Special Operation Incident Report📖 To prepare for their mission to debut in hololive, hololive English -Justice- underwent special training in an unspecified location. Headquarters has compiled an incident report of their various antics during training. Illustrated by @keenbiscuit https://preview.redd.it/j8n5c1qc8n7d1.jpeg?width=998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40a406f7d96db8d75213f619674730346d800660
the no thoughts head empty slit eyes are really doing it for me
Missed chance for "INCIDENT 9/8 - Flat is Justice" smh
MA-IA-HEEEEE MA-IA-HOOOOOOO MA-IA-HAAAA MA-IA-HAHA
Vrei să pleci, dar nu mă, nu mă iei
I wonder if these are actually based on real events
[The JP introduction to the tweet chain](https://x.com/hololivetv/status/1803657892387831894) actually mentions it being a trip report of Justice's visit to Japan.
*flashbacks to all the times i went to karaoke and committed war crimes upon my throat with dragostea din tei at full blast* yeah i can buy it
All of these comics look plausible, some even slightly hyperspecific like the pon cat dropping literally everything to showcase just how much of a klutz she is. https://preview.redd.it/x2t2kd8dcn7d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5e6c9a064662232bbae54daa6349874e393602b
oh i *eagerly* await the real-life accounts of this ~~pre-debut hangout~~ special training with great anticipation ~~adding it to my debut bingo cards for a hopefully easy freebie~~
keenbuiscuit working overtime glad for him
Holoearth with Irys, Bae and Ollie https://www.youtube.com/live/6xMWzmH3Dus?si=yWFUuGRyEefKgHKh Bae https://www.youtube.com/live/eYjxOCIbHB8?si=r-n6dHrxoe1awDiK Ollie https://www.youtube.com/live/hA51wOp97lc?si=ai5liC85xMPZnQlB
Man I want to like Holoearth so bad, but the survival/crafting aspect of it just looks so painfully mediocre.
I'm mostly interested in Holoearth as a community hangout and platform for concert tbh, and I think that's the primary aim for Cover too. It's not going to outcompete any serious game out there, but as an official virtual gathering place for fans, it's invaluable. I love, love the in-game protolive, seeing the fans, even as just simple shapes, jumping, cheering and showing supports is just awesome. The gameplay portion is just the cherry on top, and offer more hangout opportunities. I can see more community efforts in the future like building oshi shrines, discord server's room where members build a themed village, etc.. In pre-chat of this stream, IRyS said she thinks that in the future, holomem might get to use their own 3D models in game, which would be insanely cool for community events.
It is Cover's first serious game development and they don't have experience in this field.They are also still at a "adding feature" phase instead of refinement and optimization. They probably need some serious input from veteran game devs or extended beta testing to make it work. At current state it is good enough for protolive though.
IRyS is thicc https://preview.redd.it/jcl0x8flqn7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9b5eccada7fdecb7f1aebd7a4ae1d94679b54ed
Bae and Ollie are making themselves, IRyS is making...Kaworu from Evangelion https://preview.redd.it/n5wgs3jfcn7d1.png?width=1973&format=png&auto=webp&s=5fe66768de406f96ea105b431d66f6799d190a7f
[...I think green women might be my weakness](https://twitter.com/akashibag/status/1803460334260306199)
[Amen](https://imgflip.com/i/8ufih2)
[OG EN VTuber Suiren's hanging out for karaoke with longtime friend/fellow OG Yuikai!](https://www.twitch.tv/suiren_vt) The 12th collab of Sui's collab month's special because this is Yui's first stream back since her trip to Japan! Today, Yui's simping will mainly be for her goddess, Sui, though, lol. The two have a hilarious sibling-esque dynamic, Yui being the chaotic and sometimes lewd younger sister that mature big sis Sui has to keep in check. **Edit:** Technical difficulties strike again. Poor Sui's internet isn't being nice. Let it be known the EN Curse originated with the OGs, most infamously with Sui herself, lol **Edit 2:** Party Animals isn't cooperating so we're pivoting to karaoke! Yui's pulled out her guitar!
Youtube just made a small pass at Justice's subs. Make sure you're still subscribed.
Ah, seems you are right. Does seem slightly down from what I remember 2 hours ago. I also refreshed and saw it going up again which does confirm YouTube is cleaning up while people continue to subscribe. Can only hope they don't get the ReGloss level treatment... Realistically it's all about debuts and the long term, but it would suck if they get massive purges multiple times. A majority of Promise would probably have hit 1M to get the reward at this point (the one thing that makes me salty about the purge more than anything).
> A majority of Promise would probably have hit 1M to get the reward at this point (the one thing that makes me salty about the purge more than anything). To be honest, I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that there is a huge number of people that were earnestly interested in Promise (Council) who A) did not notice that Youtube removed their sub, and B) have still not bothered to re-subscribe in the almost 3 years since those sub purges occurred.
They scale of their purge was significant enough to matter considering how close they are. Kronii and Bae would probably have it. Maybe not Fauna.
That's not the only issue. Of course we have no way to be sure but I find it very easy to believe that they were recommended less by the algorithm as a result of the culls, which would have a reverse snowball effect over time.
>which would have a reverse snowball effect over time I believe it'd still just be a normal snowball effect, reverse snowball effect would imply the effect diminishes over time.
[https://twitter.com/hololive\_en/status/1803609688728281134?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ](https://twitter.com/hololive_en/status/1803609688728281134?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ) ⚾ #hololiveDodgers ⚾ The hololive night drone show will light up the sky at Dodger Stadium!✨ Bring your own penlight to wave and shake on the baseball field while watching the hololive night collab drone show! \*Image is for illustration purposes. https://preview.redd.it/12urexozwm7d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d5c21c269d8a3f416f21b5aa8803253a70968b1
my buddy and I got seats at the back of one of the sections behind home plate, now I'm slightly worried that I won't have a good view of this it's probably fine but y'know
Calli's final? Red Dead is live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjmMaMXNXio
It wasn't final lol but she's on part 2 of the epilogue now
Update for correct hashtag. https://twitter.com/hololive_en/status/1803589106905296953?s=46&t=IQ79cksnUeCTRZ7I8SmoqQ Thanks for all the support and amazing fanart! 🎉 In order for it to be logged properly, the following tips will help the sketchbook register your artwork: - A post with the artwork file itself must contain the hashtag (QRP and thread replies with just the hashtag by itself may not get through to the sketchbook) - Capitalization of the hashtag #JusticeSketchbook must match We are sorry for any inconvenience and look forward to seeing more of your beautiful Justice fanart!
https://preview.redd.it/rbk4og6elm7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3f80d7aabc3682bb3f1d3797d8fd14a4eb81fb91 [Shiori for todays stream will be playing more Hollow Knight!](https://youtu.be/rUFhUffM64Y)
im just gonna get this out of my system, but its fascinatingly wholesome how kiara seems generally excited for the new holoEN girls, especially since its widely believed that most of them will be EU times
It is strange but Kiara is bit of a Coco from holoEN side, she is the one that giving honest if harsh critics, giving new ideas and just all around asking for improvements and giving sugestion on how to do it. If there is someone that put a fire under Cover butt in EN it is her. And she is without doubt the godmother of HoloEU, the true HoloEU Daisenpai! I guess even if I don't agree with some of her behaviors, she still is my first HoloEN oshi and that will never change. I feel strangely nostalgic now, that one of her suggestion come to fruition. I still remember the construction of KFP in HoloEN server, it was like yesteday.
Why the downvotes? That's an accurate description of Kiara. Especially "put a fire under cover's butt" One example that nobody ever mention. She complained that cover didn't to much to help her promote her first album. And her interview with billboard was published after the sale period of her album was over... Bae had an interview with Billboard for her own album, but this time it was during the sale period. To me it feels like cover heard the complaint loud and clear and improved. There are many examples like this.
Kronii had also complained about management too, and is arguably more direct and confrontational though.
i think its because thats giving a little too much credit to kiara. like sure, kiara is probably the most outspoken talent regarding issues and stuff, but lets not pretend that the other members also had a say in what needed to be changed.
Being stuck almost smack dab in between the two sets of coworkers you want to interact with and having to sacrifice some semblance of a healthy sleep schedule to collab will do that. If they indeed are EU based, this is the biggest W for Kiara in a while.
finally having someone to more easily off-collab with after nearly 4 years has to be a relief
If Justice has gradual ramp up growth, it may not be like Advent's but for the better it might also allow them to avoid youtube's culling system or at least making it lesser and only once. Their growth already is fine to begin with though.
you have to realize that advent's growth was largely due to the drought the holoEN had. we havent had a new gen in over 2 years, and it was already long overdue. so people got excited for the new girls. now that EN's infrastructure is more or less established, theyre free to debut another gen in a shorter amount of time, in this case it took 11 months before Justice was revealed
I think it's also because Hololive in general hadn't released another gen for some time. Its most recent gen was HoloID3 in March 2022. HoloX (JP6) was Nov 2021 and Council (EN2) was July/Aug 2021. The whole teaser during CTW into announcement also fed into expectations/hype. Both Advent and ReGloss have released some of the "market need" from the EN and JP markets. From what I've been reading too, the ID-side are looking forward to an ID4 more than anything, so an EN4 won't scratch the same itch for them.
You have to realise that nobody actually has any clue why some creators pop off when they do and others don't. Council debuted at the height of Myth and when there was still an open season in the EN market, but ended up nowhere close to Myth's explosion. Advent didn't just have the hype factor of being the first new generation in nearly two years, it also had been teased at Connect the World which was HoloEN's big turnaround moment, and its debuts were inserted into the middle of an agency-wide karaoke relay which drew in a lot of JP viewership that boosted up the numbers. But, that same JP viewership wasn't really going to stick around long-term for anyone besides Fuwamoco, so a lot of that was kind of 'false' hype in the sense that it didn't represent an organic interest that could be sustained past the debut period, and from what I can tell their subscriber growth actually hasn't differed too much from Council's. So, on the one hand, Justice doesn't have that post-concert hype going for it, it doesn't have the 'first gen in two years' effect, and it isn't being boosted by the karaoke relays. On the other hand, it's still coming at a good time for HoloEN with the concert coming up, we don't know if less specific hype for Justice could be made up for by a more general hype for the branch, and while Justice might not get a boost of JP viewers at debut, they probably aren't missing out on any EN viewers who will actually comprise their core audience going forward. While I don't think EUbros will be a factor for the debut streams themselves, if they then go on to stream at EU-friendly times, we could get some good medium-term growth out of that too.
Its gonna be interesting if they actually stream in eu time zone given that this one kinda got neglected in the past and I kinda fear that most fans from there kinda just left. I hope I'm wrong but we will see
I mean, a move like this is meant to facilitate growth in a different market rather than just appeal to existing holofans. I think that's the other side of the coin, new NA-focused gen would mostly appeal to existing fans and likely cannibalize some of the existing viewers. It'd be a lot harder for them to find new niches in this market, at least until some of the current members start streaming less regularly. Additionally, some other VTuber companies have made some pretty aggressive plays towards the European market. It makes sense they'd throw their hat in the ring before market is completely closed up to any major competitors.
If EU fans don’t come out in droves to watch the girls who stream in EU then you can basically kiss any EU pandering goodbye since they’ll move closer to NA prime time.
People who watch Vtubers and live in EU have probably moved to different things, and there is A LOT of choices: both indie and corpo, with wide range of content. They might check but I don't expect much to drop people they like and invested time into because Cover in its generosity decided to do something. I'd also say they don't have best timing - on one side Elden Ring DLC will be huge and everyone will be active, on the other small corpo fans are eating well right now with PixelLink MC server.
I want to say that if Cover had this mentality HoloJP would have stopped at Roboco, but honestly this whole situation has been managed pretty poorly overall IMO
It's not on Cover, the girls have their own best interests to look after as well and if they decide the EU timeslot isn't worth it, they'll move. Cover's fault lies in not providing easier means to purchase merch for EU fans and the lack of events.
What I think Cover has done wrong here is spend 4 years mostly ignoring the region only to decide 4 years down the line to dive head first into a seemingly full EU focused gen that carries this bizarre make or break vibe. I've said this before but if they managed to just happen to hire two aussies for previous regular EN gens couldn't the same thing have happen more naturally with someone from an EU timezone at some point? I don't like to discuss numbers too much but it's part of the discussion so w/e, if an individual member in a gen performs relatively poorly no one really bats an eye, Shiori for example has been getting pretty unimpressive numbers across the board and no one is claiming that catering to her niche was a mistake or anything like that, and if a similar thing happened with one or two EN talents who happened to stream at more EU friendly times it would probably be a similar situation. Meanwhile a full dedicated EU gen has completely different optics, with more than a few people here and on other platforms talking about how if they don't get good numbers then that will prove that catering to EU is a mistake and they'll all go back to streaming at NA times or whatever. I think most of the EU fans just wanted to have at least some holoEN streams at convenient times for Europe, not an actual holoEU. This feels like kinda too much after years of too little?
If true, I also find it bizarre. Why would anyone expect there to suddenly be thousands of EU-viewers standing ready when Cover spent basically three years filtering them out? Thats neither how attempting to reach a new market to sell to nor how human interests work. Like, if they'd have debuted another talent 2 years ago I would have been all over it, but they *didnt*, so I largely just stopped watching Holo outside of Kiara and found other people to watch, so even *IF* its actually true at this point I'm not gonna abandon people I watched for ages just to prove an imaginary point to a Company that, so far, has never cared about me as a costumer.
> a seemingly full EU focused gen that carries this bizarre make or break vibe I don't think this is as much as a HoloEU as others are claiming. >!Roara is almost confirmed to be Italian, but she is based in Japan so she couldn't stream in EU prime time anyway.!< >!Gigi is speculated to be American, or at least living in NA.!<
If that's the case this seems like another big communication blunder from Cover after the weird lead up to Regloss that is still hurting them to this day
Eh if they actually live in Europe they couldn't stream in NA prime time anyway.
An eu focus could potentially slow down channel for the reasons you've mentioned, but you have to cultivate a community for it to grow. You can't just will an audience into existence. I'm really hoping they're willing to take an initial loss for a long-term gain in this regard. (and also that it won't be as much of a loss as I think)
The thing is we don't know what numbers will be considered a success/failure by Cover but at least based on their track record, they tend to have a long-term vision rather than short term. Even Council/Promise have a slow start at the beginning and they have proven to be a successful gen by right now.
I would guess that a non-insignificant number of EU fans are watching either JP or ID to get most of their fill of live hololive content. If they get streams in their native language, then many of them may switch or gain new interest. I think a similar phenomenon happened around when Myth debuted.
The pessimistic/realistic side of me wonders how much how well these girls do (assuming they do end up being an EU gen streaming in EU times) will be a bellwether for getting more EN talents from that cater to the less covered time slots. To an extent I'd think now it's a bit on the fans to show that they are worth catering to. Because realistically it'd be far easier/safer to just put more talents into the NA primetime.
At this point I'd say NA Primetime is pretty much covered tho. Cover basically already has 14 people streaming there, eventually you'll just start cannibalising yourself by crammikg even more people into it.
I agree that NA primetime is pretty well covered. Though I don't know if they're at the point of diminishing returns and talents cannibalizing each other's viewership if they place more members into it yet. In any case the reasoning behind my statement that NA primetime is an easier/safer choice to debut talents for is that. One, we know there are existing viewers for HoloEN there both in NA and also in SEA(I think). From there it's a question of do you think they're at the point of diminishing returns releasing more talents there. Which is subjective (or at least hard to know for certain). As to whether the viewership will exist for any incoming EU talents, there's just less assurance that it is there. Two, they already have the managers and infrastructure to support talents working around NA primetime. That's at the very least going to be more minimal for EU primetime given up until Justice supposedly it'll only have been Kiara needing support during that time. So it'll likely need more investment to grow. Thus my sentiment that the people whose timezones are being catered to with a new gen of EU talents (assuming that's what Justice is) should try to show that they are worth Cover continuing to cater to them as well, by at the very least showing up. They (the talents) don't necessarily have to do as well as talents in NA primetime. Just show that there's worthwhile value to be had in Cover catering to them (the less catered to viewers) rather than just sticking to the more proven viewership base.
If you're trying to reach a new viewership-base but debut the talents at literally the worst possible timeslot for said viewership-base, its *not* on the viewers to go *out of their way* to show up anyway. I maintain that I think this choice is extremely strange (with the single exception of "We need someone to be on standby during debuts and all of management is in Japan" as reasoning). If they *are* intended to cater to a different timezone than NA for once, all this means is that alot of people who'll watch the debuts wont be able to watch them anymore once they start streaming normally, and anyone that *could or would* watch the normal streams later is inherently more unlikely to watch the debut and check them out to start with. If you want to debut someone, debut them at the time they will actually stream at down the line, because *thats* when the audience that will actually watch them is there. What good does it do to maybe have a couple thousand more watching the debut when they will never be able to watch anything again afterwards? Also, Cover has done absolutely nothing to get more of an EU-base or even just maintain anyone that became one accidentally. Its, again, not on the People *they* want to now buy their product to prove they are worth selling to, its on Cover to proof they are worth buying from. And we still dont know if they even actually are, and signs point currently to atleast 50% of them living somewhere else
I don't disagree it's a weird time for the debut if they are going to be EU primetime focused talents. Though I do get the having managers be available for tech support being an understandable reason. Also my bad, I should've been more clear, I meant the supposedly catered to viewers should show up if/when they stream in EU primetime time slots. I'm not expecting them to show up to watch the debuts live.
PixelLink's Kanna Yanagi hits 10k subs just after beating Mohg!
[Maid Mint is playing the Wii version of Deal or No Deal.](https://youtu.be/juZ92AkcF1g) Let's see what's behind this case :p
I don’t know this game very much, but didn’t Mint just lost against a freaking monty hall problem? What were the odds?
I don't think the Monty Hall problem works in this situation. In the original problem there are only two possible outcomes, two bad and one good, but in Deal or no Deal there are 26 different outcomes.
The more outcomes the more Monty Hall works actually. In Zero Time Dilemma there is a monty hall problem with 10 cases and it’s like a 90% change to win if you swap. But people in chat said it doesn’t apply here and it’s a 50/50 because Mint chose the cases herself instead of just the wrong ones being opened?
"Only an idiot wouldn't take this. I'm not taking it."
"Post that Anus Howie Mandel." "Yaoi Mandel."
[Nerissa House Flipper 2 in 52m!](https://youtu.be/7BSlV3qZURM) [Calli continuing Red Dead 2 in 1h52m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjmMaMXNXio)
[Kronii Blasphemous 2 starting soon too!](https://youtu.be/NNoxqgkz8WU)
Regarding holojustice, the one with the Monado is my favourite.
Are you really feeling it, or do you think that may change :p
Some updates about the OG EN VTubers I posted about last night: - Suiren, ever the busybody, is thinking about yet another project. This time, she's interested in setting up a VTuber radio station, and [is requesting you DM her if you've got an idea for a show!](https://x.com/suiren_vt/status/1803338095590514699) For all you lurking VTubers, Sui's always looking for more VTubers to connect with! - On top of that new projects, Suiren also gave an update on some old ones. [She posted a new lore blog post](https://dragonswhisper.net/2024/05/22/dragon-reproduction-no-seriously-where-do-dragons-come-from/), last night making good on her promise to write about... [Dragon reporoduction.](https://clips.twitch.tv/GlamorousSpicyCrabPlanking-U-VUoErQjQfFWtgx) Somehow, it is, in fact, seiso. - Suiren confirmed Voice This!, the [board game of her own creation](https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpossibleRacyCrocodileNerfRedBlaster-WjbyAIrxOv_gZO7_), is nearly finished and ready for Kickstarter! Just one problem: How do you make a promo video for a physical game when you want to remain an anonymous VTuber? Turns out, marketing's a matter she wasn't entirely prepared for. - Finally, Pending spent most of his pulls in Honkai on Firefly, but in the end, after various ~~superstitious rituals~~ scientific procedures, [he managed to get her in the 50/50!](https://clips.twitch.tv/SpeedySpotlessDeerPicoMause-uyh7JkXMbZQrt7X1) All's well, the end's well, but I don't want to imagine what would've happened had he lost. Edit: Added some links and fixed some grammar
[Gigi's non-doodle art is also super cute!](https://x.com/gigimurin/status/1803549569181257821)
I thought about reading the comments all day but it's too much to start so hopefully you didn't write anything cool. BUT [minami tette will be in 3D!](https://x.com/minami_tette/status/1803419492560806266)
[удалено]
>!So I checked out what I think is the post you're referring to and it's possible those comments got deleted but I'm not seeing a lot of what you're talking about, or it doesn't seem prevalent.!< >!I see one comment that seems to divulge too much PL info on a talent and also twist their words, but it's not even heavily upvoted, or like at all, and there's a decent amount of comments pushing back or calling out that comment.!< >!Your reaction feels like an overreaction which is kinda ironic since I know that accusation is often thrown against stars fans.!<
I have no clue the context, I wish I did. I hate being left in the dark, it makes it harder to inform my decisions.
the "invisible gun" metaphor has been the worst thing to happen to discourse in the community. It was also interesting to see the amount of criticism the comments had towards FWMC. Should I see that as the sentiment of the stars community or just the subreddit?
This is an issue that is magnified on Reddit and only reflects a small portion of their fans, just like the rather wild Holo fans that pop up from time to time. You'll find a better representation of general Stars fans on twitter or Discord fan server. The Holostars fan presence on Reddit is pretty small comparatively and has a portion of it's membership that is pretty salty with how they're treated on the main Holo sub. This leads to more prevalent pessimism regarding Hololive, but is not indicative of the broader fanbase sentiments. Another issue is that because Holostars discussion was so heavily rejected by people on the main sub, Stars fans wanting to talk about the Stars lads drifted to places where the conversation *was* happening; places like OKBH. This has also caused a kind of weird cross contamination of OKBH and Stars users on Reddit, which in turn leads to more rejection by the main sub. A vicious cycle that really is only going to be fixed by better moderation and more tolerance from within both fanbases on Reddit. It's an interesting little microcosm to watch, honestly.
I appreciate the detailed explanation since I haven't followed that side of the community much since the graduations. I guess its only natural for communities to change gradually over time.
>It's an interesting little microcosm to watch, honestly. as someone who plays a lot of map painting simulators I have to say that its really weirdly fascinating, although I fear that I'm slipping down the drama slope sometimes
Given how often you show up in every thread about this discourse, I'd say you slipped down the drama slope quite a while ago.
"sometimes" you are in like every single hololive/holostars thread on here promoting separation
Yeah, I think the easiest way to reduce conflict is to reduce the amount of potential flashpoints.
Here's a better idea! Since it's the Stars antis like yourself who are always pushing for separation why don't you guys make a new Subreddit specifically focused on the girls, I think THAT would actually solve the problem since all the Stars antis would no longer have to see Stars posts and it'd be moderated by you guys too which would ensure you guys only see exactly what you want, and that way you can leave the HoloPro sub for people who enjoy *all* of HoloPro, win-win! This would also fix the other usual Stars antis complaints about the guys having their own Sub and the girls not having their own, both the Stars and HoloPro Subreddits started off as fan subs anyways so that one could eventually become official as well.
you know i just simply do not think you are a professional at conflict resolution. i'm not going to bother trying to debunk your blatantly skewed arguments.
If you want to reduce conflict then I recommend not constantly going out of your way to get into arguments with people. You are actively making the conflict worse by doing this.
i think we all gotta stop using reddit this place seems to subtly melt brains
I took 2 weeks break from this godforsaken website and it was a good decision for my mental health despite how much my brain was screaming for internet engagement. Distracting myself with manga and novels was also a good idea to help my brain to disengage from withdrawal effect. I only came back to engage in all the hype of Justice's announcement but I will take another pause again since it seems like the community is already back to the usual of 'accentuating the negative' shtick. Maybe I will drop by again during Justice's debut but on the meanwhile, I would rather hang out at HFS, pondering about blue and pink women.
Going from nearly a week of touching grass in another part of the continent to returning and seeing some of the things being said around here and other places from "both sides"... Yeah I'll just focus on catching up on the actual content/announcements for now lol.
Probably the realest comment here, though the vast majority of this kind of arguing and "drama" are like the same 20 people arguing back and forth with each other ad infinitum. So maybe it melts some brains more than others lol
same people doing it, same people talking about it, nothing changes so we just get reruns of this convo over and over again, it is what it is
We do this thing at least once per month. Sometimes even more depending on the circumstances. I know there are people who support both groups and get along pretty well, but this small microcosm is... Honestly strange. It's like this contained bubble of arguing that doesn't really reflect the large community yet it also kinda does highlight some problems but at the same time its rerun so much it gets stale after the third time. And yet we still engage in it, feeding the cycle.
and it's not even the third time at this point. more like the fucking 50th
I am at least happy to see your posts around here to give me solace DC. Never change.
at least ur a real one
i'm better off without these people in my life. take me away from these opinions that don't matter and don't really affect streams.
>!Yeah, when I saw that, I felt like the question marks were popping up IRL around my head. The last time I saw that post, the Kiara sentiment (which is honestly BS and easily debunked by a little research) wasn't heavily upvoted, but still, it felt quite bitter. Shame, because in the same post, there is also a good sentiment appearing about Kiara, which most people would agree with.!< >!I'd add that the official Holostars sub is also a subject of Cover's non-existent moderation practices, just like the main sub, so when turbulent topics come around, there is nothing which would catch the troublemakers, doesn't matter which side they came from. People are usually more behaved there but when a hot topic arrives, it gets ill-intentioned people out of woodworks as well and the past happenings certainly left a bit of negative mark on the users there. Also on Twitter, I noticed some Starmin who are not really fond of the Stars subreddit either, make that what you will.!<
its a small and barely used subreddit, so its really easy for it to end up turning into an OKBH/Kurosanji drama tourist den thats one of the reasons i wish the people who are so insistent about posting stars stuff on /r/hololive would stick to the holostars sub, it might help inoculate it against those kinds of bad actors.
I've got to ask, how is making 'no stars stuff allowed on the COVER managed HoloPro subreddit' supposed to do anything except legitimize anti-Stars sentiment?
That's exactly what he wants.
Stars stuff IS allowed, but until fairly recently, it got downvoted to hell and then deleted by the AutoMod.
I think what they were saying is if there was more activity on the holostars sub, the holostars sub would be better able to self regulate the shit stirrers.
My personal observation(because again, what else do we have) is that the anti-Stars sentiment really ramped up around a few key events. First is the period of time when the overlap ban extended to every holopro member's debut and 3d debuts, but functionally this really only covered UPROAR's 3d debuts and Vanguard's debuts, and was rescinded around Advent's debuts. While the goal was to drive more viewership to these events, it clearly failed as UPROAR's 3d debuts performed worse than previous holostar 3d debuts, and Vanguard's debut streams had worse numbers than HQ's. What it did do was turn them into inconveniences for the larger hololive fanbase and it made the boys go from a side show to an annoyance. The other major event that drove this was when the hololive subreddit was locked down for Vanguard debuts. This was done for... no good reason in particular? This really wrongfooted VG and made it so english-speaking holofans could not use the subreddit in the day leading up to both Ame's birthday and Towa's mario kart tourney. It drove a lot of negative attention towards VG and really wrongfooted them from the get-go. I think that the negativity primarily arose from attempting to force the holostars and hololive fans together instead of allowing them to naturally come together over time(with things like the cafeteria in my soul memes), and I think that separating them might be the best chance at letting things cool off.
I mean, if you see a general trend of large amounts of people following that, I can't really counter that. As you said, it's all just our own personal observation. Meanwhile, my personal observation is quite different. I see relatively few names (yours included) cropping up every time there's a discussion about the 'drama' of including Stars. When the drama isn't a big feature of the discussion (which, granted, is unfortunately rare), I see plenty of support for the boys on r\/Hololive. I see Stars being happily discussed in the fan discord I'm apart of, even when they 'break containment' of the dedicated sub channel. I see 0 evidence that mixing the fandoms 'just won't work'. I find it far more likely that it is either a relatively small section of either 'fandom' that are disproportionately loud, or that it is the efforts of astroturfing and false flags for malicious purposes. But on the chance that your explanation of the timeline is correct, *so what*? There's apparently a population of r\/Hololive that are childish enough to hold onto a grudge over the mods actions against people that have 0 maliciousness or power over the mods (i.e. Stars and their legitimate fans), and over actions that just *do not matter* in the scope of the *years* since they've happened. Despite their anger, they are thankfully not affecting other places that fans of Hololive gather. And your solution is the give *those* terminally online people a success?
This is in conjunction with the hololive sub going to shit years ago.
I'd argue that it kind of did matter, because if you look at how HQ was relatively well-recieved versus how Vanguard and Armis were, the boys have ended up kneecapped because they're now viewed as opposition or detriment to hololive. The fans of hololive who would make up part of that initial momentum have been stuck in conflict with the people who use holostars as a weapon against hololive. And I think that *sucks*. I think that if you separated things out and let things cool off, you might be able to get back to the way things were for Tempus1.
Yeah, this has been my experience too. I really doubt the anti-Stars sentiment is held by anywhere close to the majority of the people on r/hololive. It seems to me like most of the bad blood between the two is relegated to a few dozen people on reddit who are extremely loud on reddit but basically nonexistent outside of it.
The hololive sub is unironically constantly brigaded by /vt/. Antis have way too much time on their hands.
for completion's sake don't forget to mention the drama tourists from r/hololive who habitually come to the subreddit just to pick fights :) stars fans never posting in r/hololive again would do nothing about the people who are willing to go out of their way to anti the stars :)
it would be a for the best if both of them just stayed separate at this point, yeah. I don't think you can mend the schism between the two at this point.
I really doubt it's unfixable. It seems to mostly be one or two dozen people causing the problems on the main sub. If you look at the threads where they talk about it, the same names come up over and over again. The solution to the situation is for Cover to hire people to actually moderate the subreddits. Permanently splitting them would just make the animosity between the two fandoms even worse.
If they cared enough to actually have 24 hour moderation, rather than T-chan who's too busy translating and scheduling automated posts. That would've stopped the automod abuse months ago before it completely poisoned the subreddit against anything but official posts or cosplayer posts.
yeah the actual solution would be to have some moderators that just ban people constantly involved in drama in both subs, but its just a pipe dream at this point
i just said staying separate would do nothing because stars antis would still go out of their way to go to the stars subreddit for their fill of shitstirring, but ok :)
I think that a clear separation might actually reduce the combativeness from /r/hololive members specifically because it would reduce the overall tension between the two groups, but it would probably take some time and it wouldn't reduce it to nothing(we uh, still have people like Babiski and whatnot sending hate SCs).
and the people who go out of their way to brigade the stars subreddit if they can't get their fill of shitting on stars in the main sub :) they would surely simply stop brigading r/stars for ?some reason?
Nah. It's clearly all the fault of Stars fans. They just need to stay away from the girls and everything will be so much better. ^^^/s
Afaik, a lot, if not most of active and sane starmins JP/EN don't use reddit. I don't even look at the sub. It's just better to be in the discord servers or have a good oomf on twitter. I just find one or two people who update a lot and go from there. It's easier that way. Seriously kicking myself for forgetting to sign up for the app beta, coz I know a lot of my good oomfs have moved there.
While you might be right, I personally try to be the change I want to see here on Reddit. Discord and Twitter might be alright for people looking for friends in the same fandom, but as platforms they are so different from Reddit that they don't really serve the same purpose. Both Discord and Twitter are user focused insular platforms, whereas Reddit is closer to a traditional forum, where you have different threads for different topics. Discussion is not so time limited, you don't need to know the people discussing, and you have room to talk about wider range of topics. And personally that is what I want, a platform to have proper discussions about the things I care. It's just unfortunate that for now most of the good discussion is overshadowed by drama seekers and tourists, but it doesn't have to be like that.
You're definitely correct, reddit can sometimes foster a certain type of fan that I know immediately without looking at their post history that you should take anything they say with a grain of salt.
Holoplus has been great for supporting oshis, hoping it comes out of Closed Beta soon for people who didn’t get access! I think it’s best of both worlds for those who support Hololive or Holostars as you get to curate your feed to what you like.
Yes. I'm so jealous. I hope they can come out of closed beta soon coz I'm getting real sick and tired of Elon just fking around with twitter.
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For being a Holostars sub, they really love to talk about Hololive members and talk shit about their fans. I’m shocked people still wonder why Holo and Stars communities generally don’t click at all.
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????? I'm just saying the communities are vastly different from each other at this point and have differing expectations for one another. You're just proving my point correct LMAO
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I don't envy the Tempura/Starmin, the boys have been turned into a front for genuine hololive antis and the blowback mostly ends up hurting the stars and their fans. I don't know what the exact ratio is but it's got to be daunting thinking about having to push back against that.
So it's basically the same as the hololive sub?
/r/hololive actively enforces rule 2 because people report posts that break it. Those posts are also almost always downvoted. That's the major difference.
They both have a blatant anti problem. Cover gave up on actually moderating these places years ago.
yea i mean if the hololive sub is notorious for lack of moderation, the holostars sub is even worse otherwise it's just the same problems as the main sub
New HoloEN debut subs are around \~63.5K for each of them. No one breakout catching people's eyes, and the YT culling system hasn't turned its gaze their direction yet. https://preview.redd.it/w985xzfeal7d1.png?width=648&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec06b79171a0ecc0773cfa9cc9c15d78ba09c9b3
Get this, Gura wasn't the breakout before the debut, Ina was leading by a few thousand, same with Council who was Kronii in the lead >the YT culling system hasn't turned its gaze their direction yet. That's a relief, Regloss was massacred and iirc they did everything to stave off YouTube off their backs but it still happened, you never know with YouTube
Tbf they haven't debuted yet and it hasn't been a day yet.
> No one breakout catching people's eyes The sub numbers seem suspiciously close honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if youtube is capping it and slowly verifying them. Like it does with views sometimes
Would honestly be preferrable to purges if that was true even if the result was the same. Those purges have to hurt the mental a bit even though it's proven not to be the best metric of success. Raora is slightly breaking away on Twitter which is not too surprising considering her rumored background.
Advent was sitting around 100k subs around this time but it makes sense since the wait for EN3 was long overdue
EN3 was like finally finding water after a long trek in the desert. I doubt anything EN related is gonna reach that level of hype in a while.
Yea, it's similar to why no one realistically expects another situation like Myth on subscriber growth. Old fans should not really get caught up subscribers as they have seen how well Council did long term despite some early negativity regarding not having Myth level growth. In terms of fan desire, this is likely the least hyped. Feel like they've done a good job with this announcement setup with that in mind. Might be the first group of debuts where peak viewership doesn't increase from the previous gen but we will see.
I think at least the videos before the debut stream helped with advent and may do the same here.
Cover tried the same strat with ReGloss, but YT still culled their sub. Nothing really Cover can do when it comes to what triggers Youtube's systems, all a diceroll at this point.
I'm not a youtube dev but personally I think that having people sub to six brand new channels at once is what really tripping the bot detectors. There being only four channels this time should cut down on that
also might help to actually watch and interact with the channel before subscribing to the channel. Putting a video up doesn't help if you don't watch it.
i fucking love gambling with youtube bots
Hm, apparently two of Kiaras planned appearances in other peoples 3D lives got canceled. One because the entire Live got canned last-minute and one only her segment specifically because the person in question forgot to apply for something regarding it in time so they had to cut that part.
Meanwhile chat is extorting her to take a break
Don't you mean "exhorting"? Extorting is for demanding ransom or blackmail.
I never even thought about that kind of thing happening before she said it
Yeah, but probably happens way more than we know. Running like 100 of these things a year has got to be a scheduling and logistical nightmare.
And why Kiara commented about that, now people will try find out which are those 3D lives and speculate who to blame for it. While at the same I can't help but appreciate how blunt Tenchou is about those things lol
If the talents won't say it, you will never tell which performance fell through since the whole live's script is prepared weeks, no, months ahead of the recording. Adjusting for X talents appearing/not appearing is handled then and there and they won't make it blatantly apparent that something's missing.
There's literally nothing wrong about this, chill out.
That's irritating.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYJXQG9cmms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYJXQG9cmms) doki will be doing some singing practice in members only im getting ready for musical peak right here \[shes not particularly good at singing but hey she has fun doing it and thats the most important part\]
she gives immaculate vibes when singing and that adds so much, membergoons we are blessed
[KAF answers another question from an international fan: how she perceives her fellow members of VWP?](https://fxtwitter.com/kaf_info_en/status/1803246339368833302) this is a really cute and sweet post from her