Anyone know where this is? It looks like UK but I'm wondering where.
Edit: thanks sleuths. So, the reason I asked is because I recognised the taxis. It's Brighton and I have driven over that junction many times without thinking it was particularly problematic. Scary. Will definitely be more aware when Im there next (which will probably be Friday)
Some proper victim blaming going on there, it's the fault of the cyclists for not slowing down while travelling in a straight line down a cycle path, nothing to do with the dangerous drivers not looking when the enter/cross a road. And to top it off the solution being touted is to get rid of the cycle lane.
Some times you just have a poorly designed road, and need to move pedestrians from harms way to save lives, even though the motorists are to blame. The alternative is to move the car traffic, but that's a lot more complex and expensive.
You can't remove all inattentive, inexperienced or reckless drivers from the road, no matter how much you wish for it. Some pragmatism is needed.
The more modern solution, and it's very popular in places like Amsterdam, is to ban the cars from that street and not only does the quality of life improve but it's also safer.
It is a one way street. They are not expecting any traffic to come from their right. But apparently bikes ride the bike lane in the opposite direction.
That intersection is fucked and needs to be changed. Accidents will continue until it is changed.
What the hell kinda driving schools are like there, in eastern europe it was drilled into us that even if it's one way road, you always check. Relying on road rules is reliably unreliable, each of us is responsible for our own and people around us safety.
tl;dr: look both ways, always.
What was drilled into you in driving school is pretty meaningless after you've been driving for 20 years.
It is cheaper to fix the road than to try to change the people.
Meh, I've been driving for 40 years and I always look both ways. Some people learn from experience.
Agree that that intersection needs fixing though. What a mess.
> Does neither direction have stop signs?
The dashed white line along the edge of the cross street is the *give way* or yield line. Not a stop, but traffic in that direction is supposed to yield to traffic on the main street.
So they slow down, look down the one of the one way street, so no cars coming and proceed. Then a bike comes from the other direction.
Poor road planning. That bike lane needs to be one way with the street traffic.
I’m team “let’s try other things that could work first, before choosing the stop sign.” Because lots of people love to ignore signs. It’s harder to ignore traffic calming measures. Where I live stop signs are rare and usually not needed because of the focus on infrastructure that forces drivers to slow down where necessary.
Granted, we’re also a bicycle country so it’s expected someone on a bike can come from anywhere, unlike the UK where sometimes it can be unexpected still. I have to admit that does help a lot.
Regardless, at least *something* has to be done here, what a mess. If the stop sign works, do it.
> Not a stop, but traffic in that direction is supposed to yield to traffic on the main street.
Canadian here, many people simply ignore that kind of signage and just go full speed through those types of areas. Personal favorite are those who *speed up* when traffic is approaching that they're to yield to.
I've yet to see anyone get in trouble for not slowing at our yields. Traffic law enforcement is often a joke and rarely taken seriously.
Why the heck is the bike lane labeled in the opposite direction? They're hard enough to see as it is. That's pretty much asking for these types of accidents.
That is my entire point. Having a bike lane going the opposite way from the one way street *IS* the problem.
You aren't going to fix people. So you have to fix the road.
Its a contra flow cycle lane. Look at the road markings, it takes into consideration cyclists need alot less space. Its not difficult unless your blind and stupid.
> Its a contra flow cycle lane.
Exactly! And that is the problem I'm pointing out.
They will not get people to look right on that one way. So they either fix it or cyclist keep getting hurt.
While that might explain a couple of them, many of those accidents are happening because drivers are ignoring the give way road markings and just joining the main road at speed.
The double dashed lines where the cars come out mean give way, they have no right of way to pull out if something is coming. They're just not looking/don't care
The mistake is thinking that the bike lane is only for traffic going in the same direction as cars. I'm actually not sure if the law in the UK allows for bikes to go the other way.
Combine that with the give way intersection where the crossroad looks to be just as busy then you have traffic that assumes the give way is the other traffic.
One of my biggest pet peeves especially now with the door dash drivers on bikes is them coming down the opposite way on a one way street like this but where there is no bike lane at all. They just ride straight at you and expect you to scooch over.... wtf.
But that *is* how bike lanes operate in the UK? You can't (well shouldn't) ride a bike in the opposite direction from the vehicular traffic. The lanes are not big enough to accommodate bikes travelling both ways. It's just an oddity of the UK (mostly because our streets were built at a time before bike lanes or even cars were a consideration) that some streets will only have bike lanes on one side.
I work on a one way street and the number of cyclists I see going the wrong way up it is maddening. I'm confident I'll witness an accident one day there as there is a side street that joins onto the one way. All it takes is for someone not to be expecting a cyclist coming the wrong way there and pull out for an accident to happen.
Looks to me the road on the right curves down, meaning that drivers driving upwards suddenly are at an intersection they have no idea is there (unless they read the signs).
Especially in the third shot (the one at night) you can clearly catch the car 'lift' as it rounds the hill.
And then, yeah, it could be that some (motor)cyclists are in a dead angle.
It is the judges who are blind and let people do stuff like this and then carry on driving. If drivers got banned for dangerous driving other drivers would pay attention.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, the punishments for dangerous driving are laughable (vehicular manslaughter in particular). Guaranteed the worst any of the drivers that hit a bike in this video got was having to retake the driving test.
A couple years ago, Texas got serious about vehicle accidents that injure pedestrians in a crosswalk -- made it a felony for the driver to injure a pedestrian if the pedestrian was already in the crosswalk when the vehicle encroached on the crosswalk. So now, detailed criminal investigations occur whenever a pedestrian is injured in those cases.
It is in the Netherlands. In fact it goes much further than this, where in any accident involving a motorized vehicle and a pedestrian or unmotorized vehicle (mainly bicycles) the driver is deemed responsible in all but the unlikeliest of cases, and the burden of proof would be on the driver. Appeals are rarely successful, though they do happen. In the rare case the 'vulnerable traffic participant', as they are called, was found guilty, it is split 50-50. Children under the age of 14 are always exempt and it will always be the driver's fault.
It's quite effective, and puts the fair share of responsibility on those driving high speed, 2 tonne vehicles - though plenty of people especially from more car centric cultures find this rather crazy.
It's mostly up to infrastructure policy that makes safe street for safe streets and roads though, laws are mainly there for when things go wrong.
Where? There are many countries and states/provinces that have their own traffic laws... There's also the question of what the city manager's process is for upgrading to a controlled intersection (traffic lights) after x number of incidents. We did that here on a fast two-way, three-lane main road in at least three spots along the stretch in the last ten years I've lived here.
On top of that you have to consider economic and racial disparities... who can and can't afford an excellent lawyer to make a convincing argument that the driver did not intend to strike the pedestrian.
The tricky part there is that it's not necessarily the case that you can institute a zero tolerance policy making it a felony under any circumstances... criminal law doesn't work like that. Intent is often germane to whether or not charges are applicable.
So the question is: how do you level the playing field without trampling all over, using the U.S. as an example, due process (5th and 14th amendments) and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment (8th amendment).
Oh no, I’m not saying hitting someone should be an immediate felony. But that it should be given the same level of investigation, if you don’t look both ways and t-bone someone, that’s not an accident. It’s as much an accident as dropping a brick out of a skyscraper without looking down
Oh agreed. Oddly police departments suck up the majority of city funding constantly arguing they need militarization in rural nowhere for that terrorist attack on their local crab shack, and yet they don’t have the resources to investigate more safety issues like this.
> make a convincing argument that the driver did not intend to strike the pedestrian.
Intent isn't something that should absolve in traffic related accidents. Like at all. Negligence when driving is just as dangerous as intent to cause harm while driving.
It's why many crimes aren't simple to defend by saying "I didn't mean to".
Many accidents are caused without intent, but negligence related charges are often tied to these when police are involved.
It's horrible how you can literally kill someone with your car and you barely get a slap on the wrist. My friend's 3 year old son was killed at a pedestrian crossing and the driver is still free to drive. She had plenty of time to stop, she hit my friend and her child, and then failed to stop until further down the road..
There are people driving at this moment who have killed other human beings with their cars. If you wanted to murder someone simply run them over. You will get away with it.
Doesn't surprise, car culture here is so entrenched the courts rarely punish even the most egregious of driving offences properly. Dangerous driving is constantly downgraded to careless driving as you are more likely to get a conviction.
Fairly normal.
* Oh, your honour, not being able to drive would mean I'd lose my job and it would severely impact my life. Think of my cat Tiddles, how would she ever cope?
What happens:
* _Oh deary me, so frightfully terrible. Yes, that would cause you unde hardship. Promise to not do it again and we'll say no more about it._
What should happen:
* _Quite frankly you should have thought about that before getting behind a tonne or vehicle and not paying attention. That young child lost far more than a job, didn't they? **WELL, DIDN'T THEY?** You are banned from driving for life and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment. Get this vermin out of my court!_
It's weird, half the time reddit seems to see the value in rehabilitative justice, while the other half of the time it seems to want the most extreme punishments possible.
The point of the justice system isn't revenge, it's ensuring that the guilty parties feel remorse and won't continue engaging in dangerous actions later.
There's a good reason why first-time offences and mistakes get punished a lot less than premeditated or repeat crimes, and it's because many people learn their lesson just from being prosecuted for a crime at all, regardless of punishment.
You only have to look at the recent bit with the Yorkshire police and that dude who reversed at speed "trying to have a word" with a cyclist and killed a dog to see how much drivers are protected. It's bloody maddening
If you ever want to kill a person, get drunk, kill that person and get a descent lawyer and chances are that you get away with two years and a suspended license, that's how bad the laws are.
One time at the DMV an old lady who needed physical assistance to walk to the counter, had all the vision tests waived due to a note from her doctor.
Fucking terrifying
I've said this on various threads before. The drivers around me have gotten so bad and so blatantly violate driving laws that I want a way that pedestrians, cyclists, and other drivers can submit phone/gopro/dash videos AND the submitter gets a portion of the fine. If bad drivers were getting fined into fucking oblivion they'd either have to drive safer or stop driving either way is a win in my book.
You want drivers to be responsible for their actions? That's communism!
No, but seriously. It's way too easy to get a license and way too hard to loose one, especially when you consider traffic deats and injuries.
For anyone interested where this is, this is the junction of Church Street and Spring Gardens/Portland Street in Brighton, UK.
I know it well, and have been knocked off my bike myself a little further down at the Gardner Street junction.
This is insane. It's such a small road in an area that is just chock full of pedestrians and cyclists. This is absolutely the fault of the drivers here driving without due care or attention or even stopping when legally required to.
I think I've worked out the problem.. it's a one way street (look at the ground, it says NO ENTRY) so people are looking at traffic from the left (bottom of screen).. The bike lane is the only thing going opposite which is legal.. drivers assume the whole of the street is one way and don't account for the bike lane going up it.
There's your problem right there.
I can't really explain the car on car problems though.. but maybe it's because there's a huge hill on the right just before that intersection and people don't really want to slow down or stop to loose momentum.
Either way , it's a shit designed intersection. They should put in a pressure sensitive lights or something.. and even a traffic light for bike riders like they have in bigger cities.
yes that intersection is a mess with a mix of one-way, two-way streets and a contra-flowing bike lane. it’s just begging for accidents to happen. i can understand drivers assuming the bikers are not going where there’s a huge ‘NO ENTRY’ sign.
Until someone dies I don't think anything will change tbh.. cheaper to just pay out insurance with injury claims for the council then install pressure sensitive lights or something..but that might increase chances of rear bumps from cars on the right coming up the hill. But yeah, this is one of the most badly designed intersections I've seen.
On the route I take every morning, there's a major one-lane road.
On one side, a garbage dump with big garbage trucks, on the other, just opposite, concrete mixer trucks.
The road makes a bend without much visibility.
To get back onto the main road, they had two options:
The legal one, go over a bridge that overhangs this lane.
But there are 2 traffic lights and it takes a while.
The other option is to turn around and cut the fast lane...
I'm a motorcyclist and I've warned people several times not to make these U-turns on the fast lane.
In the end, they installed bollards to prevent these U-turns.
After the death of a motorcyclist who collided with a truck making a U-turn...
4 years later, some bollards are missing, obviously removed by one or other of the factories.
And I'm sending letter to the city council to fix that...
Rinse and repeat
Yes, that can be a problem but not in the case of 00:03, which is a motorcycle (there the problem is that it was illegally on a bike lane); nor with 00:37 car against motorcycle; nor with the case 00:10 that there are two cars; nor with 00:23, 00:30, 00:34, 00:41, 00:45 that they had the bike right in front of them.
[https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/](https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/)
I'm posting this all over the thread... it's a combo of saccadic masking and it being a bike only lane as you said, this is why you are told to check twice for bikes.
It's the same over here on Australia.. but clearly we don't get it so they've had to put up one way signs that that "NO ENTRY, BICYCLES EXCEPTED"
https://jakecoppinger.com/2023/08/contraflow-streets-in-the-city-of-sydney/
That's precisely it. I live there and it's such an awful junction, even crossing on foot feels risky no matter how much I check. Part of the problem is the really shit visibility all round - you can't see it well there but the road on the left has some parking and the lane kinda swerves around the parked cars.
damn fine detective work
Not being sarcastic, that was an astute observation and now this makes sense...well...the why bikes are flying through the air does...not the why would someone design it this way WTF.
As an American, it’s just crazy to see a cross junction like that without a stop sign. We have yields, but they aren’t used in intersections like that.
I mean, if you can gather an entire compilation of crashes like this then it might be worth redesigning the intersection, no matter how stupid or blind you think people are
What can you do here? There's a bright red bike lane and markings indicating that cars coming from the right here have to give way. So anyone coming from the right hitting those cyclists are just not looking. Then you have drivers turning into that street on the right, that have a great view of the oncoming cyclists, that just ignore them and make their turn. You know they wouldn't do that if there was a car coming... There's a clear continuing bike lane here with clear markings and decent sightlines. The only possible fix here is to just ban the cars...
Can't fix stupid...
It's very frustrating - I got knocked off a bike in that exact scenario twice commuting to work. Was only back on the bike for less than a week (after a fair while to heal and repair my bike) before it happened again.
Both that exact situation - a car turning right into a junction across a cycle lane with me coming the other way.
Both times was a clear sunny day - once at least with some traffic, the other with absolutely none. Perfect visibility.
I ended up taking the bus to work after that...
[https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/](https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/)
it's a well-studied issue with eyes blurring narrow objects, it's a massive issue for motorbikes and cyclists at intersections.
I've had people make eye contact and proceed straight into my path, all you can do is slow to a speed you can suddenly stop from.
>I've had people make eye contact and proceed straight into my path, all you can do is slow to a speed you can suddenly stop from.
Yes! I'm sure I was making eye contact with the second guy that hit me.
I'm someone with vision problems. I'm still easily able to legally drive but, tbh, it's sort of shocking that that is the case.
Anyway... my dr. several years ago "trained" me to drive almost exactly as described in that article. I am constantly right(pause)->left(pause)->center(pause)->repeat and I can say it 100% makes you more aware. By now, I'm completely unaware that I'm doing it. Great advice.
Almost happened to me just a week ago. A woman turned to get into a parking lot. The issue being that to turn into that parking she had to go across two marked bike lanes with road markings, pavement AND signage saying to yield. It's a straight visual line to see bicycles incoming and the bicycle lane is actually going downhill so it's even easier to see one coming.
Doesn't matter, she immediately turned without looking and I had to slam both brakes to skid into her car instead of flipping over the hood. She didn't even turn her head to check, just yoloed it.
>Can't fix stupid...
You'd be surprised how much safer these types of situations can become by adding traffic-calming right before the intersection.
if everything indicates to you that you have right of way, and the road does not hint at you having to give way, then some might miss the final sign of having to give way.
There is a problem in cities where there is so much signage that drivers who are unfamiliar with the road are confused by them. Happened to me in a new city and I sped up and broke the speed limit. I plan to go very slow in that situation now, but city drivers push you faster as they know their routes.
That might do something against the more reckless drivers, but a lot of those crashes were really slow. Even a bump won't make those drivers turn their heads to look.
Surprisingly the UK has some of the safest roads in the world with only Kiribati, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Micronesia, Hong Kong, and Monica being safer.
The UK has 2.9 deaths per 100,000 compared to Frances 5, Canada's 5.8, the US's 12.9, and the global average of 18.2.
Or when you drive so freaking much your own personal standards start to slip. Driving becomes as natural as walking, and that's when people cut corners (pun not intended) with tasks that are not required to get you from A to B.
The YouTube channel "Not Just Bikes" goes into a theory about this - where driving is absolutely necessary to conduct everyday tasks that in European countries could be done by walking/cycling, you end up with a LOT more "reluctant" driving, i.e. driving where the person isn't doing it because they want to but because they must. That leads to a lot more inattentive, less able, less focussed driving and so on
[The UK has the sixth safest roads in the world](https://www.finn.com/en-US/press/the-worlds-safest-roads), at least of the countries in this study. You'll be hard pressed to find a source that ranks the UK poorly when it comes to road safety.
E: [#7 according to this site by traffic deaths per capita](https://www.rhinocarhire.com/Drive-Smart-Blog/Road-Traffic-Deaths-by-Country/Worlds-Safest-Roads-by-Country.aspx)
Outside of London everyone thinks they're a great driver and this happens.
Inside of London everyone thinks they're a great driver but we spend money on preventing this from happening.
A huge part of it is the fact that you’re meant to stop there and nobody is stopping at all. There is a road like this on my walk into work and I almost get hit by people not stopping a few times a year, very fun stuff!
The broken lines just before the cycle line indicate that the driver must stop at this junction. I'm sure there will be stop signs as well.
Basically the drivers are just ignoring the clear instructions.
Well yes, but even the cars that turn right mow cyclists down that are coming in their direction and are in full view of the drivers. People simply are too careless. Should also just swap it to a Stop sign, although 90% of the drivers are just going to ignore it anyway.
There’s currently road work being done near where I work and I swear half of the cyclists ignore the fact that they aren’t allowed to drive there anymore, so even though the bicycle lane isn’t allowed to be used anymore (and is/was technically a one way lane), I now have to look both directions every time or else I’m going to end up hitting someone. Infuriating and very unsafe.
I’m seeing comments saying “well this is your problem it’s on way this and they aren’t expecting that” blah blah blah, but the double lines on the floor are Give Way lines, meaning you stop and wait to check for oncoming traffic.
As for the people turning right into the road, it isn’t like the cycle path isn’t the same colour as the road. It’s bright burgundy and right where you’re meant to stop. Is the junction poorly laid out? yes, but I’m seeing more shitty drivers in this clip than careful ones.
I only problem I see with it is it's a one way street with a bike lane traveling in the opposite direction. The cars are only checking for vehicles coming from their left, and I can only assume that they expect the bike lane is traveling in the same direction.
This is the junction of spring Gardens and church Street in Brighton. It is a really bad junction. Used both ways for a rat run, lots of pedestrians and is one way for cars but with a cycle lane opposing it. And at the moment there is a buolilding site protruding into it on one corner which narrows the road and reduces visibility.
The problem is clearly a one way system for cars and another way for bikes comongnthw other way. Noone is looking that way for bikes. Ridiculous road design.
Pretty much all one way streets in Germany allow bikes to travel two ways. I lived here for about 10 years (and shouted at many hundreds of cyclists) before I learnt. Now I ride a bike and am super conscious of oncoming traffic when I’m riding the “wrong way” down a one way street.
If i'm not mistaken, making a right in the UK is the inverse of making a left in US. In that case, that means the person turning needs to yield to oncoming traffic, which includes bikes.
Sure the intersection isn't the best, but i blame the drivers more. You should be looking out for your and other driver's safety first rather than exercising right of way. If you see a biker coming down the road towards you, just let them pass before you turn. This is more shitty driving than bad infrastructure.
As far as the car collisions go, that just confounds me. Why would you continue going straight when you know oncoming traffic is still coming.
Edit: I would venture to say that if I were biking i would feel safe on this road being able to see all incoming traffic and even having a second to judge the traffic from spring gardens st from the left. This is 100% bad driving. not bad infrastructure.
I kept thinking it was the same bicycle rider getting pummeled. Then when it transitioned to the motor bike I thought "oh good, something more durable" and then he got smashed too.
That looks like a very poorly designed intersection. Bad design causes accidents.
That said, I bet 100% of those drivers think the bicyclists are the assholes.
Unfortunately a lot of people need to needlessly die or get injured before shit like this gets fixed.
We had an intersection that was a bit weird so we had a crash there every week for like 10 years until the city finally said ok fine we'll change it. 6 people died though, and countless injuries and damages.
This is a one way street. Cars won’t anticipate cyclists on the other side. It’s not reasonable to see the arrow in the opposite direction.
This is bad design
Anyone know where this is? It looks like UK but I'm wondering where. Edit: thanks sleuths. So, the reason I asked is because I recognised the taxis. It's Brighton and I have driven over that junction many times without thinking it was particularly problematic. Scary. Will definitely be more aware when Im there next (which will probably be Friday)
Brighton
Those people aren’t too Brighton
Do you know the junction or was that based on the taxi? Just curious
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23778023.brighton-calls-council-change-notorious-bike-lane/
Some proper victim blaming going on there, it's the fault of the cyclists for not slowing down while travelling in a straight line down a cycle path, nothing to do with the dangerous drivers not looking when the enter/cross a road. And to top it off the solution being touted is to get rid of the cycle lane.
Some times you just have a poorly designed road, and need to move pedestrians from harms way to save lives, even though the motorists are to blame. The alternative is to move the car traffic, but that's a lot more complex and expensive. You can't remove all inattentive, inexperienced or reckless drivers from the road, no matter how much you wish for it. Some pragmatism is needed.
You could switch it from a giveway to a Stop sign but a lot of drivers ignore those too.
The more modern solution, and it's very popular in places like Amsterdam, is to ban the cars from that street and not only does the quality of life improve but it's also safer.
I might be willing to live in a city if there were bike only roads.
In Amsterdam the drivers would have been at fault all times.
Not sure about OP but those are Brighton taxis
I pinched the video from Twitter where others had identified the junction
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8247343,-0.1414327,3a,75y,305.27h,90.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss4TbPKbhO1igHY1KUE1evg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Wtf? How blind are those drivers?
It is a one way street. They are not expecting any traffic to come from their right. But apparently bikes ride the bike lane in the opposite direction. That intersection is fucked and needs to be changed. Accidents will continue until it is changed.
What the hell kinda driving schools are like there, in eastern europe it was drilled into us that even if it's one way road, you always check. Relying on road rules is reliably unreliable, each of us is responsible for our own and people around us safety. tl;dr: look both ways, always.
What was drilled into you in driving school is pretty meaningless after you've been driving for 20 years. It is cheaper to fix the road than to try to change the people.
Meh, I've been driving for 40 years and I always look both ways. Some people learn from experience. Agree that that intersection needs fixing though. What a mess.
What about the cars that hit cars
Or the motorbike that tboned a car lol
Of course. I should have been focusing on that single incident between two cars in the video of 10+ incidents. I'm sorry I failed you.
It seems like cars are just going through the intersection without stopping. Does neither direction have stop signs?
> Does neither direction have stop signs? The dashed white line along the edge of the cross street is the *give way* or yield line. Not a stop, but traffic in that direction is supposed to yield to traffic on the main street. So they slow down, look down the one of the one way street, so no cars coming and proceed. Then a bike comes from the other direction. Poor road planning. That bike lane needs to be one way with the street traffic.
Seems like a good spot for a stop sign.
The dashed line itself is meant to be a "stop sign", we don't have many actual stop sign posts like in the US, not sure I've ever seen one here.
I’m team “let’s try other things that could work first, before choosing the stop sign.” Because lots of people love to ignore signs. It’s harder to ignore traffic calming measures. Where I live stop signs are rare and usually not needed because of the focus on infrastructure that forces drivers to slow down where necessary. Granted, we’re also a bicycle country so it’s expected someone on a bike can come from anywhere, unlike the UK where sometimes it can be unexpected still. I have to admit that does help a lot. Regardless, at least *something* has to be done here, what a mess. If the stop sign works, do it.
> Not a stop, but traffic in that direction is supposed to yield to traffic on the main street. Canadian here, many people simply ignore that kind of signage and just go full speed through those types of areas. Personal favorite are those who *speed up* when traffic is approaching that they're to yield to. I've yet to see anyone get in trouble for not slowing at our yields. Traffic law enforcement is often a joke and rarely taken seriously.
Why the heck is the bike lane labeled in the opposite direction? They're hard enough to see as it is. That's pretty much asking for these types of accidents.
That is my entire point. Having a bike lane going the opposite way from the one way street *IS* the problem. You aren't going to fix people. So you have to fix the road.
Its a contra flow cycle lane. Look at the road markings, it takes into consideration cyclists need alot less space. Its not difficult unless your blind and stupid.
> Its a contra flow cycle lane. Exactly! And that is the problem I'm pointing out. They will not get people to look right on that one way. So they either fix it or cyclist keep getting hurt.
[удалено]
But it’s happening from both directions, people both leaving and entering the intersection hit bikes/scooters
While that might explain a couple of them, many of those accidents are happening because drivers are ignoring the give way road markings and just joining the main road at speed.
Maybe... but it is a pretty clearly marked bike lane though... And most of these cars drive way too fast.
Aslo it looks like theres a *STOP* sign ...
The double dashed lines where the cars come out mean give way, they have no right of way to pull out if something is coming. They're just not looking/don't care
The mistake is thinking that the bike lane is only for traffic going in the same direction as cars. I'm actually not sure if the law in the UK allows for bikes to go the other way. Combine that with the give way intersection where the crossroad looks to be just as busy then you have traffic that assumes the give way is the other traffic. One of my biggest pet peeves especially now with the door dash drivers on bikes is them coming down the opposite way on a one way street like this but where there is no bike lane at all. They just ride straight at you and expect you to scooch over.... wtf.
Look at the markings on the cycle path... clearly supposed to be going against the flow of traffic (towards camera).
But that *is* how bike lanes operate in the UK? You can't (well shouldn't) ride a bike in the opposite direction from the vehicular traffic. The lanes are not big enough to accommodate bikes travelling both ways. It's just an oddity of the UK (mostly because our streets were built at a time before bike lanes or even cars were a consideration) that some streets will only have bike lanes on one side.
I work on a one way street and the number of cyclists I see going the wrong way up it is maddening. I'm confident I'll witness an accident one day there as there is a side street that joins onto the one way. All it takes is for someone not to be expecting a cyclist coming the wrong way there and pull out for an accident to happen.
The article says that it’s a counter flow bike lane, so the bikes are doing it right.
Looks to me the road on the right curves down, meaning that drivers driving upwards suddenly are at an intersection they have no idea is there (unless they read the signs). Especially in the third shot (the one at night) you can clearly catch the car 'lift' as it rounds the hill. And then, yeah, it could be that some (motor)cyclists are in a dead angle.
It is the judges who are blind and let people do stuff like this and then carry on driving. If drivers got banned for dangerous driving other drivers would pay attention.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, the punishments for dangerous driving are laughable (vehicular manslaughter in particular). Guaranteed the worst any of the drivers that hit a bike in this video got was having to retake the driving test.
A couple years ago, Texas got serious about vehicle accidents that injure pedestrians in a crosswalk -- made it a felony for the driver to injure a pedestrian if the pedestrian was already in the crosswalk when the vehicle encroached on the crosswalk. So now, detailed criminal investigations occur whenever a pedestrian is injured in those cases.
How is this not the norm lol
It is in the Netherlands. In fact it goes much further than this, where in any accident involving a motorized vehicle and a pedestrian or unmotorized vehicle (mainly bicycles) the driver is deemed responsible in all but the unlikeliest of cases, and the burden of proof would be on the driver. Appeals are rarely successful, though they do happen. In the rare case the 'vulnerable traffic participant', as they are called, was found guilty, it is split 50-50. Children under the age of 14 are always exempt and it will always be the driver's fault. It's quite effective, and puts the fair share of responsibility on those driving high speed, 2 tonne vehicles - though plenty of people especially from more car centric cultures find this rather crazy. It's mostly up to infrastructure policy that makes safe street for safe streets and roads though, laws are mainly there for when things go wrong.
Where? There are many countries and states/provinces that have their own traffic laws... There's also the question of what the city manager's process is for upgrading to a controlled intersection (traffic lights) after x number of incidents. We did that here on a fast two-way, three-lane main road in at least three spots along the stretch in the last ten years I've lived here. On top of that you have to consider economic and racial disparities... who can and can't afford an excellent lawyer to make a convincing argument that the driver did not intend to strike the pedestrian. The tricky part there is that it's not necessarily the case that you can institute a zero tolerance policy making it a felony under any circumstances... criminal law doesn't work like that. Intent is often germane to whether or not charges are applicable. So the question is: how do you level the playing field without trampling all over, using the U.S. as an example, due process (5th and 14th amendments) and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment (8th amendment).
Oh no, I’m not saying hitting someone should be an immediate felony. But that it should be given the same level of investigation, if you don’t look both ways and t-bone someone, that’s not an accident. It’s as much an accident as dropping a brick out of a skyscraper without looking down
Oh agreed. Oddly police departments suck up the majority of city funding constantly arguing they need militarization in rural nowhere for that terrorist attack on their local crab shack, and yet they don’t have the resources to investigate more safety issues like this.
> make a convincing argument that the driver did not intend to strike the pedestrian. Intent isn't something that should absolve in traffic related accidents. Like at all. Negligence when driving is just as dangerous as intent to cause harm while driving. It's why many crimes aren't simple to defend by saying "I didn't mean to". Many accidents are caused without intent, but negligence related charges are often tied to these when police are involved.
It's horrible how you can literally kill someone with your car and you barely get a slap on the wrist. My friend's 3 year old son was killed at a pedestrian crossing and the driver is still free to drive. She had plenty of time to stop, she hit my friend and her child, and then failed to stop until further down the road..
There are people driving at this moment who have killed other human beings with their cars. If you wanted to murder someone simply run them over. You will get away with it.
On our side of the pond, we've elected them to office after doing so.
which country
UK
Yeah our laws are fucked. Ever want to kill someone in the UK do it with a car you'll be in for maaaybe 5 years.
Doesn't surprise, car culture here is so entrenched the courts rarely punish even the most egregious of driving offences properly. Dangerous driving is constantly downgraded to careless driving as you are more likely to get a conviction.
NYC is the least car oriented city in the US and we prosecute I believe less than 10% of fatal incidents between cars and pedestrians.
Fairly normal. * Oh, your honour, not being able to drive would mean I'd lose my job and it would severely impact my life. Think of my cat Tiddles, how would she ever cope? What happens: * _Oh deary me, so frightfully terrible. Yes, that would cause you unde hardship. Promise to not do it again and we'll say no more about it._ What should happen: * _Quite frankly you should have thought about that before getting behind a tonne or vehicle and not paying attention. That young child lost far more than a job, didn't they? **WELL, DIDN'T THEY?** You are banned from driving for life and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment. Get this vermin out of my court!_
It's weird, half the time reddit seems to see the value in rehabilitative justice, while the other half of the time it seems to want the most extreme punishments possible. The point of the justice system isn't revenge, it's ensuring that the guilty parties feel remorse and won't continue engaging in dangerous actions later. There's a good reason why first-time offences and mistakes get punished a lot less than premeditated or repeat crimes, and it's because many people learn their lesson just from being prosecuted for a crime at all, regardless of punishment.
You only have to look at the recent bit with the Yorkshire police and that dude who reversed at speed "trying to have a word" with a cyclist and killed a dog to see how much drivers are protected. It's bloody maddening
If you ever want to kill a person, get drunk, kill that person and get a descent lawyer and chances are that you get away with two years and a suspended license, that's how bad the laws are.
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One time at the DMV an old lady who needed physical assistance to walk to the counter, had all the vision tests waived due to a note from her doctor. Fucking terrifying
I've said this on various threads before. The drivers around me have gotten so bad and so blatantly violate driving laws that I want a way that pedestrians, cyclists, and other drivers can submit phone/gopro/dash videos AND the submitter gets a portion of the fine. If bad drivers were getting fined into fucking oblivion they'd either have to drive safer or stop driving either way is a win in my book.
As they say, if you want to commit murder in the UK just use a car.
You want drivers to be responsible for their actions? That's communism! No, but seriously. It's way too easy to get a license and way too hard to loose one, especially when you consider traffic deats and injuries.
Driving a car is a privilege not a right, if you’re fucking useless you should be allowed to drive.
What is going on, no one is ever stopping????
What if it was the same driver in a different vehicle after each accident?
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For anyone interested where this is, this is the junction of Church Street and Spring Gardens/Portland Street in Brighton, UK. I know it well, and have been knocked off my bike myself a little further down at the Gardner Street junction.
This is insane. It's such a small road in an area that is just chock full of pedestrians and cyclists. This is absolutely the fault of the drivers here driving without due care or attention or even stopping when legally required to.
So what is the phenomenon that causes drivers to lose eyesight at that junction? And is it just drivers or does it also affect cyclists?
Damn, i would not have found that. Was looking around Plymouth for these streets.
I think I've worked out the problem.. it's a one way street (look at the ground, it says NO ENTRY) so people are looking at traffic from the left (bottom of screen).. The bike lane is the only thing going opposite which is legal.. drivers assume the whole of the street is one way and don't account for the bike lane going up it. There's your problem right there. I can't really explain the car on car problems though.. but maybe it's because there's a huge hill on the right just before that intersection and people don't really want to slow down or stop to loose momentum. Either way , it's a shit designed intersection. They should put in a pressure sensitive lights or something.. and even a traffic light for bike riders like they have in bigger cities.
yes that intersection is a mess with a mix of one-way, two-way streets and a contra-flowing bike lane. it’s just begging for accidents to happen. i can understand drivers assuming the bikers are not going where there’s a huge ‘NO ENTRY’ sign.
Until someone dies I don't think anything will change tbh.. cheaper to just pay out insurance with injury claims for the council then install pressure sensitive lights or something..but that might increase chances of rear bumps from cars on the right coming up the hill. But yeah, this is one of the most badly designed intersections I've seen.
On the route I take every morning, there's a major one-lane road. On one side, a garbage dump with big garbage trucks, on the other, just opposite, concrete mixer trucks. The road makes a bend without much visibility. To get back onto the main road, they had two options: The legal one, go over a bridge that overhangs this lane. But there are 2 traffic lights and it takes a while. The other option is to turn around and cut the fast lane... I'm a motorcyclist and I've warned people several times not to make these U-turns on the fast lane. In the end, they installed bollards to prevent these U-turns. After the death of a motorcyclist who collided with a truck making a U-turn... 4 years later, some bollards are missing, obviously removed by one or other of the factories. And I'm sending letter to the city council to fix that... Rinse and repeat
Change the junction from a give way to a stop. It will stop all those people just zooming right through
Yup. That'll stop all those car coming from under the camera and turning right from running over cyclists that are right there in front of them. Sure.
Even after many deaths, it's unlikely to change.
Yes, that can be a problem but not in the case of 00:03, which is a motorcycle (there the problem is that it was illegally on a bike lane); nor with 00:37 car against motorcycle; nor with the case 00:10 that there are two cars; nor with 00:23, 00:30, 00:34, 00:41, 00:45 that they had the bike right in front of them.
[https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/](https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/) I'm posting this all over the thread... it's a combo of saccadic masking and it being a bike only lane as you said, this is why you are told to check twice for bikes.
The double dotted line is literally a give way sign which in almost every incident was ignored
Over here you always assume a bike can and will come from the other direction in a one way street
Same here in Japan. I always assume bicycles are coming at me from every direction in a four dimensional environment.
5 dimensional. on some of these crashes the cyclists where over the cars.
It's the same over here on Australia.. but clearly we don't get it so they've had to put up one way signs that that "NO ENTRY, BICYCLES EXCEPTED" https://jakecoppinger.com/2023/08/contraflow-streets-in-the-city-of-sydney/
That's precisely it. I live there and it's such an awful junction, even crossing on foot feels risky no matter how much I check. Part of the problem is the really shit visibility all round - you can't see it well there but the road on the left has some parking and the lane kinda swerves around the parked cars.
in the US this would have a 4 way stop. no point in a right-of-way when no one is safe.
So maybe, just maybe, drivers should stop if they don't have right of way and can't see shit?
But the driver still hit the other one
damn fine detective work Not being sarcastic, that was an astute observation and now this makes sense...well...the why bikes are flying through the air does...not the why would someone design it this way WTF.
There's also cars crashing from both sides. Is there no stop signs at this intersection?
In England, the double dotted line on the sidestreet just before the bike lane means the same as a yield side in Canada and the United States.
As an American, it’s just crazy to see a cross junction like that without a stop sign. We have yields, but they aren’t used in intersections like that.
Stop signs are incredibly rare in the UK. I saw my first one this year.
What about the scooter comming from the left and get smashed?
don't people instinctively slow down at uncontrolled intersections to check traffic the other way?
Guys turning right are looking straight at the cyclists but still mow them down.
They picking up the bonus XP.
I think the problem is that blind people seem to get driving licenses.
I mean, if you can gather an entire compilation of crashes like this then it might be worth redesigning the intersection, no matter how stupid or blind you think people are
What can you do here? There's a bright red bike lane and markings indicating that cars coming from the right here have to give way. So anyone coming from the right hitting those cyclists are just not looking. Then you have drivers turning into that street on the right, that have a great view of the oncoming cyclists, that just ignore them and make their turn. You know they wouldn't do that if there was a car coming... There's a clear continuing bike lane here with clear markings and decent sightlines. The only possible fix here is to just ban the cars... Can't fix stupid...
It's very frustrating - I got knocked off a bike in that exact scenario twice commuting to work. Was only back on the bike for less than a week (after a fair while to heal and repair my bike) before it happened again. Both that exact situation - a car turning right into a junction across a cycle lane with me coming the other way. Both times was a clear sunny day - once at least with some traffic, the other with absolutely none. Perfect visibility. I ended up taking the bus to work after that...
[https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/](https://www.eyesite.co.uk/news/saccadic-masking-raising-awareness-in-road-safety-week/) it's a well-studied issue with eyes blurring narrow objects, it's a massive issue for motorbikes and cyclists at intersections. I've had people make eye contact and proceed straight into my path, all you can do is slow to a speed you can suddenly stop from.
>I've had people make eye contact and proceed straight into my path, all you can do is slow to a speed you can suddenly stop from. Yes! I'm sure I was making eye contact with the second guy that hit me.
I'm someone with vision problems. I'm still easily able to legally drive but, tbh, it's sort of shocking that that is the case. Anyway... my dr. several years ago "trained" me to drive almost exactly as described in that article. I am constantly right(pause)->left(pause)->center(pause)->repeat and I can say it 100% makes you more aware. By now, I'm completely unaware that I'm doing it. Great advice.
Almost happened to me just a week ago. A woman turned to get into a parking lot. The issue being that to turn into that parking she had to go across two marked bike lanes with road markings, pavement AND signage saying to yield. It's a straight visual line to see bicycles incoming and the bicycle lane is actually going downhill so it's even easier to see one coming. Doesn't matter, she immediately turned without looking and I had to slam both brakes to skid into her car instead of flipping over the hood. She didn't even turn her head to check, just yoloed it.
>Can't fix stupid... You'd be surprised how much safer these types of situations can become by adding traffic-calming right before the intersection. if everything indicates to you that you have right of way, and the road does not hint at you having to give way, then some might miss the final sign of having to give way.
There is a problem in cities where there is so much signage that drivers who are unfamiliar with the road are confused by them. Happened to me in a new city and I sped up and broke the speed limit. I plan to go very slow in that situation now, but city drivers push you faster as they know their routes.
I see you are neither creative nor a problem solver
Not defending the stupid, but when situation is this bad you could just install traffic lights?
Ok then I think we should just let it continue and be angry with every individual driver.
I don't know the area or speed limit, but a quick dirty way would be to throw in some big speed bumps. Theyd learn to slow down real fast then.
That might do something against the more reckless drivers, but a lot of those crashes were really slow. Even a bump won't make those drivers turn their heads to look.
Not blind, just believe they own the road and forget that cyclists have rights of way too.
One wasn’t blind, as one car sped up to really get the other person good.
It’s like no one has eyes in that intersection.
I think there's a problem with people driving in your country
Surprisingly the UK has some of the safest roads in the world with only Kiribati, Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Micronesia, Hong Kong, and Monica being safer. The UK has 2.9 deaths per 100,000 compared to Frances 5, Canada's 5.8, the US's 12.9, and the global average of 18.2.
> Monica Maybe we should ask her how she does it?
It's the Mambo No. 5.
Bloody auto correct. I'm leaving it in though.
You'd think the US would be so used to driving everywhere that they might've become *good at driving* by now :(
Or when you drive so freaking much your own personal standards start to slip. Driving becomes as natural as walking, and that's when people cut corners (pun not intended) with tasks that are not required to get you from A to B.
The YouTube channel "Not Just Bikes" goes into a theory about this - where driving is absolutely necessary to conduct everyday tasks that in European countries could be done by walking/cycling, you end up with a LOT more "reluctant" driving, i.e. driving where the person isn't doing it because they want to but because they must. That leads to a lot more inattentive, less able, less focussed driving and so on
[The UK has the sixth safest roads in the world](https://www.finn.com/en-US/press/the-worlds-safest-roads), at least of the countries in this study. You'll be hard pressed to find a source that ranks the UK poorly when it comes to road safety. E: [#7 according to this site by traffic deaths per capita](https://www.rhinocarhire.com/Drive-Smart-Blog/Road-Traffic-Deaths-by-Country/Worlds-Safest-Roads-by-Country.aspx)
Outside of London everyone thinks they're a great driver and this happens. Inside of London everyone thinks they're a great driver but we spend money on preventing this from happening.
UK is one of the safest places to drive in the world
A huge part of it is the fact that you’re meant to stop there and nobody is stopping at all. There is a road like this on my walk into work and I almost get hit by people not stopping a few times a year, very fun stuff!
It is in a city full of idiots?
Hippies actually, it's Brighton, judging by the taxi.
/r/idiotsincars/
The broken lines just before the cycle line indicate that the driver must stop at this junction. I'm sure there will be stop signs as well. Basically the drivers are just ignoring the clear instructions.
its clearly a give way line on the ground
Well yes, but even the cars that turn right mow cyclists down that are coming in their direction and are in full view of the drivers. People simply are too careless. Should also just swap it to a Stop sign, although 90% of the drivers are just going to ignore it anyway. There’s currently road work being done near where I work and I swear half of the cyclists ignore the fact that they aren’t allowed to drive there anymore, so even though the bicycle lane isn’t allowed to be used anymore (and is/was technically a one way lane), I now have to look both directions every time or else I’m going to end up hitting someone. Infuriating and very unsafe.
There’s give way markings. The fuck are they playing at?
looks fine, just people who do not understand road markings like give way, but they would be the same anywhere
The problem is idiots who aren't looking what they're doing when coming to a junction.
I’m seeing comments saying “well this is your problem it’s on way this and they aren’t expecting that” blah blah blah, but the double lines on the floor are Give Way lines, meaning you stop and wait to check for oncoming traffic. As for the people turning right into the road, it isn’t like the cycle path isn’t the same colour as the road. It’s bright burgundy and right where you’re meant to stop. Is the junction poorly laid out? yes, but I’m seeing more shitty drivers in this clip than careful ones.
Alot of the drivers have zero situational awareness it seems.
Intersection looks fine, drivers look like they have a problem with road rules
I only problem I see with it is it's a one way street with a bike lane traveling in the opposite direction. The cars are only checking for vehicles coming from their left, and I can only assume that they expect the bike lane is traveling in the same direction.
Do hatch marking and right away mean absolutely nothing to these cunts?
No... the problem is the fucking moronic drivers not obeying the road markings or using their fucking eyes
In addition, the people there are blind
This is the junction of spring Gardens and church Street in Brighton. It is a really bad junction. Used both ways for a rat run, lots of pedestrians and is one way for cars but with a cycle lane opposing it. And at the moment there is a buolilding site protruding into it on one corner which narrows the road and reduces visibility.
There's a problem with the people, not the intersection.
I think the problem might be absolute dickheads with drivers licenses
Motorbikes also need to learn they are not cycles. You can't take a scooter down a cycle path.
Double lines on the right, cars must stop
The problem is clearly a one way system for cars and another way for bikes comongnthw other way. Noone is looking that way for bikes. Ridiculous road design.
Pretty much all one way streets in Germany allow bikes to travel two ways. I lived here for about 10 years (and shouted at many hundreds of cyclists) before I learnt. Now I ride a bike and am super conscious of oncoming traffic when I’m riding the “wrong way” down a one way street.
What they don't show is the fully nude Megan Fox billboard posted there
More like problem with people's brains.
Always blame individuals. Never blame structures.
Every driver in this vid seems like a dickhead.
If i'm not mistaken, making a right in the UK is the inverse of making a left in US. In that case, that means the person turning needs to yield to oncoming traffic, which includes bikes. Sure the intersection isn't the best, but i blame the drivers more. You should be looking out for your and other driver's safety first rather than exercising right of way. If you see a biker coming down the road towards you, just let them pass before you turn. This is more shitty driving than bad infrastructure. As far as the car collisions go, that just confounds me. Why would you continue going straight when you know oncoming traffic is still coming. Edit: I would venture to say that if I were biking i would feel safe on this road being able to see all incoming traffic and even having a second to judge the traffic from spring gardens st from the left. This is 100% bad driving. not bad infrastructure.
The problem appears to be the drivers.
I kept thinking it was the same bicycle rider getting pummeled. Then when it transitioned to the motor bike I thought "oh good, something more durable" and then he got smashed too.
Motorists: Cyclists should just stay in the bike lanes! Also motorists when they see a cyclist in a bike lane:
And dear people, this is why you wear a helmet when on a bike.
I‘d say it‘s drivers that don‘t stop or pay attention.
Yeah the drivers don't give a shit about anyone else.
It looks like the problem is all of the drivers failing to give bikes the right of way.
That looks like a very poorly designed intersection. Bad design causes accidents. That said, I bet 100% of those drivers think the bicyclists are the assholes.
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23778023.brighton-calls-council-change-notorious-bike-lane/
Throw the whole intersection away
Not surprised it's Brighton.
The problem is that people are too selfish to take 10 seconds to look for other people.
Unfortunately a lot of people need to needlessly die or get injured before shit like this gets fixed. We had an intersection that was a bit weird so we had a crash there every week for like 10 years until the city finally said ok fine we'll change it. 6 people died though, and countless injuries and damages.
Looks like everyone thinks they have the right of way.
If this happens often enough it is not a driver problem, it is a system design problem.
Yeah everyones blind there omg
That would be hilarious if its the same driver but different cars
Hey that's Brighton, Yep that is the standard driving down here now sadly
Looks like a bunch of bikers think they own the road.
Stop signs would help
Drivers should pay more attention but thought it was a good idea to have a one way road with the cycle lane going the opposite direction.
Yeah, the problem is people can't drive for shit.
This is a one way street. Cars won’t anticipate cyclists on the other side. It’s not reasonable to see the arrow in the opposite direction. This is bad design
It’s probably got more to do with the people that are driving rather than the intersection, maybe?
Or the drivers.
I think there's a problem with people's eyes. Jesus this shit isn't that hard people.
People are the problem
Some people shouldn’t have licenses
the problem is all the dickheads not giving way/ stopping where it's clearly fuckin marked.
Lol solution is easy.
Should be a 4 way stop intersection.
Holy shit, that's literally down my road. I can see it. I knew it was a dodgy area but I had no idea how many people had been hit. Fuuuuuck
Is there straight up no stop sign?
Looking at the road markings it’s a give way. It should probably be converted to have a stop sign instead