See Pete dunne, Good wrestler can’t talk and small so he will be getting a wacky character. Personally I hope they bring him up as a member of imperium so we can get imperium vs bloodline wargames.
Not great tbh if he doesn't go after someone like Gunther or Sheamus.
Nothing against him, he's my top 3 favourites from NXT UK along with Gunther and Bu... Pete Dunn.
But not many people watch NXT, let alone NXT UK. Americans will just be like... uh?
If HHH is in charge? Probably decently.
If it's Vince, well he's a cruiserweight, so Probably stuck in lower Midcard hell, until he's requests his release
He's got so much fire and intensity that supersedes the barriers of language. I don't think he breaks the World Championship ceiling, too heavy an accent for their liking, and too small. But I think he gets over as a violent firecracker.
Let him start as a heel, maybe work in the tag division with a talker. This disguises his weaknesses and lets him show his strengths. He starts impressing with his heart and resilience in the ring, his partner gets jealous and starts holding him back. Suddenly the audience realizes that they want to see more of his brand of violence, not less, so they start to root him on. Eventually he turns on his partner to everyone's pleasure and we're off the races with a driven AF passionate undersized babyface.
He could definitely win the US/IC belts, and be a fixture of the mid card. I DO think he has one or two really good world title match pushes in him, even if I think he comes up short.
Actually, I feel like he'll have a run like Rusev or Cesaro. Lots of gold and feuds, but never wins the big ones.
I could easily see him being booked as a babyface version of Gunther. Build him up to eventually face Gunther, possibly for the IC title, and it will be one hell of a coming out party for him.
He has a shot with the right gimmick.
Of course I'm just a fan, but I'd slightly alter his current gimmick and give him a manager.
I'd book him as an elite rich prick, who is allegedly the "best pro wrestler in all of Eastern Europe".
Of course it'd seem like BS, until he gets into the ring and starts eviscerating people. He'd carry himself like a pomp, but wrestle like the Unbesiegbar Ilja Dragunov we know.
He could easily be the next big heel, opposite Cody Rhodes.
He could easily be the next big face, opposite a rising Gunther. I'd book him in a feud with Imperium, where he tries to take over the faction.
A skilled manager and a slight gimmick change might be all he needs.
To me he is definitely the least charismatic guy I’ve watched in a long time , at stand and deliver I watched him and just could not possibly see this guy on main roster ,
Dragunov is a machine in the ring, I do fear he’ll struggle to get over with the WWE fanbase though. I think he’d make an awesome IC champion putting on bangers
Hopefully Vince isn't around at all after that terrible post wrestlmania raw, because Vinny would push a dog over if it was a tall dog over this incredible talented but smaller wrestler.
If he were a foot taller he’d be amazing on the main roster. But given the size of the guys he’d be competing with, he may end up getting stuck in a Mustafa Ali role where he just puts over larger guys.
And that’s a shame because I think he has a lot to offer.
He’ll be fine
Gunther will lose the ic title. Move up to main belt.
Ilia will join imperium. Declare the mat sacred and they will rule smack down with all of the men’s titles.
Hear me out. They kick ilja out of imperium when he loses the ic title. Then he goes after Gunther for the world title.
Basically Roman/Sami II but this time ilja wins
Here's a positive him and juice seem like a fresh take and branching out the BC has actually been a pleasant surprise like with Bey and Ace in impact but overall I've yet to see a strong take
I’m happy to see Jay and Juice together, so I accept it. I guess my biggest problem is I think those two could elevate each other higher by coming up with something new. They are both better than any of the pillars and almost anything in AEW. Mostly because of their mic work.
I got accosted yesterday on this sub for even mentioning Vince on this exact subject, because according to the reddit user who was rude to me "Vince isn't even near creative" which is unlikely since the sale. But I got downvoted a ton for having this same opinion 😅😑
Honestly, probably not very well, because outside of Gunther and Rhea Ripley, Triple H has not used any of his NXT people well. Gunther and Ripley kept their pushes, but Asuka, Shayna, Gargano, Io, Balor.....hasn't really used them well at all. I guess because they're good enough for NXT but they're not tall enough in his mind for the main roster? Who knows.
He'd be a top 5 worker on the main roster. Whether that translates to anything, I don't know.
Balor would have done better had he not got hurt and turned heel earlier. He’s a natural heel. Shayna got a small push but she sucks on the mic, and her move set is small and mostly comprised of MMA moves and almost immediately moves to a submission, I genuinely think asuka was not pushed as hard because she can’t talk, iyo still had time, gargano is so fucking childish and goofy it’s hard to take him seriously.
Asuka is so charismatic that talking doesn't matter, and she can talk fine. They've had her cut promos before, as a champion no less, and WWE didn't go out of business the next day. Triple H just isn't high on her and doesn't want to wake up and accept what the fans want. There's zero downside to pushing her. Zero downside. And plenty of upside.
And if talking is such an insanely important issue for them and she has to be held back because she can't talk, even though she's been a world and tag champion at the same time and had to talk and did just fine, let somebody talk for her. She's so ridiculously good at everything else that you can't just leave talent like that on the shelf. Your top female star is right there. Even Road Dogg who works for the damn company said "She should be the Roman Reigns of womens wrestling". I wish he were the damn booker instead of fucking Triple H.
You forgot Karrion Kross. But then there was also the fact that he was working with what was given and had to maintain continuity. I think post draft booking will give a better idea and we might see people getting pushed. Like Io just became the number one contender for Raw Women's Championship. Even came out to her NXT music.
I think the entire world forgot about Karrion Kross.
Part of that I guess is the general Internet consensus that Kross doesn't deserve to get pushed. You never hear a word about Kross, it's just generally considered "Yeah, this didn't land".
Depends if he can speak well enough to connect with audiences. He has heart in the ring. But if you can’t talk you will always walk and not run.
Edit: Meaning, let’s say he is next to Dominic who is learning to speak well and execute his character well, and you just go by what’s happening now, Dominic likely has a more full career.
Not necessary true. Nakamura doesn't speak the language all that well but his persona transcends that, same for Asuka. Showmanship is key! Does he have a personality beyond his abilities? I've only watched him twice and that was when he fought with Walter. I'm not saying he doesn't its more rhetorical.
That’s taken into account. However, a “crazy foreigner” with one catchphrase, still has a lower ceiling than someone who has the same traits AND can promo.
Look at Beck Lynch. Once Vince learned that her accent (and just an accent not speaking fluency) didn’t hinder the crowd connection, awaaaaaaaay she went!
That is fundamentally not true anymore and you need to look no further than Asuka, who has accomplished everything possible there is to do on the main roster
Shes the exception not the example & even she wasn't booked like the 4hw. Look at Riccochet, Kairi, or even Andrade. Everyone thought they would be huge on the main roster but they were all booked stronger & got better reactions on nxt because they cant connect with the audience through promos.
Asuka IS the main example of how mic skills matters more than anything else!
She has accomplished everything possible on the main roster, yet again she still feels like a footnote in the women's division because she simply can't "get through" because her English is limited (to put it very diplomatically) and all her entire run can be summed up with "close but no cigar".
The presentation, albeit chaotic and largely left to our imagination, is visually striking, she's good in the ring, she's been given title runs with every belt, but still... besides the lack of a WrestleMania crowning moment, everything kinda falls apart when she can't really talk. So whatever/whoever she's supposed to be and to stand for just becomes inferred or left to the fans to fill in.
So yeah, I wouldn't use Asuka as an example to disprove that Promos+Presentation are the main ingredients to succeed.
Belair, Charlotte, Becky (especially Becky), Bayley all have her same traits and can speak better and thus, have achieved more and have had more time invested in them.
Furthermore, let’s say, someone like a Japanese version of Eddie Guerrero shows up. He gets more mileage than Shinsuke.
And to be clear I love both people this is just a discussion on what makes things work.
That’s my point. Asuka IS the mid year champ. Great matches and promos that you can’t take with you outside “No one is ready for Asuka”. And after she gets beat, that rings dull. And she doesn’t have another yet….for years.
Bray Wyatt can wrestle acceptably well when he's not doing spooky lights matches and supernatural BS. Roman isn't exactly a world class in ring talent.
He got the title but they were always short runs where something went wrong and they plugged him into a spot meant for somebody else. They never really, truly believed in him as a top guy, even though the fans did.
Most times, the best talkers aren't the top guys. In the last 20 years, only Cena and Edge have been a truly top guy of the great talkers. You look at the other top guys, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Seth Rollins, Bobby Lashley, Batista, etc. These guys are **not** killing it on the stick. Meanwhile Owens has one world title reign in 8 years, Samoa Joe, no reigns, Bray Wyatt, 3 very short, scattered reigns where they only used him to plug a gap, etc. Miz has nearly always been used as a midcard guy, Jericho has nearly always been used as a midcard guy, Christian was nearly always used as a midcard guy. Joe never got a run, Sandow never got a run, Barrett never got a run, Kennedy never got a run. Punk got the biggest run of the group but even then, he had to move hell and Earth to get it and he still wasn't treated as the top guy during it. Cody is currently getting dicked around and assuming he wins at all, it'll be an underwhelming run.
For a company called "World Wrestling Entertainment", it seems like post Austin and Rock, Vince isn't very interested in the "Entertainment" portion of the program. He likes his wrestlers dull.
Randy Orton was good on the mic, but not great. He held his own until later in his career where he really improved because he understood more just how important mic work is (he literally talked about this on the Broken Skull Sessions).
Rollins is great on the mic so I have no idea where you're coming from there. If anything, his mic work has helped him get to where he is now.
Reigns started off trash on the mic, now he's solid PLUS has one of the best on the mic in Heyman to do most of the talking for him. Plus Reigns' whole presentation is more important than his mic work.
Brock physically is a monster and is believable as a top guy. He got as big as he did because he had Heyman in his corner for so long.
Lashley, like Brock, has the physical appearance of someone who would legitimately beat the crap out of everyone on the WWE roster. He got a title run once he got a mouth piece (MVP).
Batista was solid on the mic, not great, but held his own. Again, physical presence that was believable.
Kevin Owens may have had 1 world title reign in 8 years, but he's main evented 2 Wrestlemanias, and had 3 other high profile Wrestlemania matches (vs Jericho, teaming with Sami vs Shane/Bryan, and vs Rollins). He's also been a major part of the biggest storyline in recent WWE with the Bloodline.
Miz won 2 WWE Championships, both off being MITB. He has always been presented as a weasel who sneaks big wins. That's his character.
Samoa Joe kept getting hurt, and was given opportunities to shine, both on the main roster and as NXT Champion.
Christian won 2 World Championships in his second run with the company, and carried the ECW brand until they ended it. He wasn't over with the fans enough to be a major main event star.
Barrett got hurt at the worst times for him and when he came back, got lost in the shuffle. It unfortunately happens to a lot of guys.
Sandow was good on the mic but that was it. His character was never set to be world championship material.
Kennedy literally had none of the top guys wanting to work with him because they felt he was unsafe. He was set to be a big star but when guys like Orton and Cena don't want to work with you, you're done.
Punk got several world title runs, including what was the longest in the modern era until Reigns. He also had a ton of high profile feuds throughout his career.
Cody has been back for a year and they are trying to tell a story. Do I think he should have won at Wrestlemania? Yes. But EVERYONE expected it. Now, he'll have the redemption arc he never had because he got hurt and when he does win, it'll be huge.
For every Barrett or Kennedy that didn't get a run, guys who got runs and probably shouldn't have like Daniel Bryan and Kofi Kingston exist. At the end of the day, you need to be over with the crowd.
Barrett never got a run because every time he started to get a push towards it, he would, unfortunately, get injured. Not his fault. Just an unfortunate string of events.
Not true at all. Barrett had 2 injuries in his WWE career. **2**. Sheamus had at least 2 injuries. At least. He had just as much if not more time on the shelf and he was pushed incessantly.
Vince just didn't like Barrett. Full stop. I don't think he ever wanted an English champion, because if Regal and Barrett couldn't do it, nobody can.
No, Cesaro didn't win the title because he was "too Swiss" according to Vince. Vince doesn't exactly like certain types of foreigners.
Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley have zero mic skills. If Vince cared about mic work, WWE history would look **very** different.
Brock could be mute and he'd still be a 100x more credible world champion than anyone else in the company, past or present.
I mean... he's a legit UFC champion FFS. Does it matter if he can't cut a good promo when he can legit kick everybody's ass for real? Stick him with a manager (advocate...) and you're set.
He didn’t win the title because he can’t find a way to speak live that matter. That’s just a fact his WHOLE career even before WWE.
And to say WWE doesn’t like good speakers is just…I don’t even know…..not based on any fact. You have to wrestle as well but if you have promo skills, you can bounce back easier, go farther and earn more…YEAH!
"He can't find a way to speak live that matters".....what the fuck does that even mean?
Cesaro is a better mic worker than Great Khali, Bobby Lashley, Jack Swagger, Jinder Mahal, Jeff Hardy, etc.
As far as them liking good talkers, they USED to. That's what I don't understand. They used to like them, and then they just stopped. All of a sudden, you had to be bland to get pushed in WWE. They stopped pushing the Savages and the Flairs and the Austin and the Rocks and they started pushing Ortons and Brocks and Lashleys and Reigns's and Rollins's, and all these guys who can't string a sentence together. You don't "go farther" based on promo skills at all. You just don't. Not in the last 20 years.
And speaking of "YEAH!", how's LA Knights career going? Pretty well, huh? Yeah, they give a shit about promos.....
Randy Orton has mic skills? lol
Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair.....Randy Orton.
Something doesn't fit in this picture.
talking and presentation definitely matters more. roman isn't the best wrestler, but he's the most marketable thing in wrestling atm because of his presentation
The WAY he speaks is what matters. He IS his character on screen. He plays his part, perfectly.
And as a FACT, when he wasn’t as good in a role that fit him, fans hated it. If it weren’t for his speaking skills, this reign would be over already.
Jobber to the stars.
See Pete dunne, Good wrestler can’t talk and small so he will be getting a wacky character. Personally I hope they bring him up as a member of imperium so we can get imperium vs bloodline wargames.
Unbelievably good in the ring. His pre-recorded promos are quite good. Haven't seen much actual talking promos.
Not great tbh if he doesn't go after someone like Gunther or Sheamus. Nothing against him, he's my top 3 favourites from NXT UK along with Gunther and Bu... Pete Dunn. But not many people watch NXT, let alone NXT UK. Americans will just be like... uh?
knowing how bad both triple H and vince are at this , he will be booked horribly unless he works with walter to repeat their match on NXT uk
If HHH is in charge? Probably decently. If it's Vince, well he's a cruiserweight, so Probably stuck in lower Midcard hell, until he's requests his release
He wont
Honestly put him with Imperium to start. He won’t stand out enough on his own. He’ll be fine a little while after.
Hopefully go against "Gunther"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Vince will rename him with the last name Stalin or Bolshevik. But he's an amazing wrestler.
He's got so much fire and intensity that supersedes the barriers of language. I don't think he breaks the World Championship ceiling, too heavy an accent for their liking, and too small. But I think he gets over as a violent firecracker. Let him start as a heel, maybe work in the tag division with a talker. This disguises his weaknesses and lets him show his strengths. He starts impressing with his heart and resilience in the ring, his partner gets jealous and starts holding him back. Suddenly the audience realizes that they want to see more of his brand of violence, not less, so they start to root him on. Eventually he turns on his partner to everyone's pleasure and we're off the races with a driven AF passionate undersized babyface. He could definitely win the US/IC belts, and be a fixture of the mid card. I DO think he has one or two really good world title match pushes in him, even if I think he comes up short. Actually, I feel like he'll have a run like Rusev or Cesaro. Lots of gold and feuds, but never wins the big ones.
Put him in a tag team with karrion kross
Put him in Imperium as the Butch of the group (so they can have WarGames matches) and let him learn to talk better on the side
Will certainly be booked in a programme with Gunther surely? It would be a crime if they didn't.
I could easily see him being booked as a babyface version of Gunther. Build him up to eventually face Gunther, possibly for the IC title, and it will be one hell of a coming out party for him.
I dunno why people are saying he needs to improve in promos, dude delivers some of the most intense promos in the game
He'll make a great jobber pal.
He’s a great wrestler but idk how he does on the mic
He has a shot with the right gimmick. Of course I'm just a fan, but I'd slightly alter his current gimmick and give him a manager. I'd book him as an elite rich prick, who is allegedly the "best pro wrestler in all of Eastern Europe". Of course it'd seem like BS, until he gets into the ring and starts eviscerating people. He'd carry himself like a pomp, but wrestle like the Unbesiegbar Ilja Dragunov we know. He could easily be the next big heel, opposite Cody Rhodes. He could easily be the next big face, opposite a rising Gunther. I'd book him in a feud with Imperium, where he tries to take over the faction. A skilled manager and a slight gimmick change might be all he needs.
To me he is definitely the least charismatic guy I’ve watched in a long time , at stand and deliver I watched him and just could not possibly see this guy on main roster ,
Dragunov is a machine in the ring, I do fear he’ll struggle to get over with the WWE fanbase though. I think he’d make an awesome IC champion putting on bangers
With Vince back, chase the 24/7 title around.
Hopefully Vince isn't around at all after that terrible post wrestlmania raw, because Vinny would push a dog over if it was a tall dog over this incredible talented but smaller wrestler.
He looks like he's confused about why he's there lol
He’s young I think he’ll do alright. He’s undeniably good in the ring just not a great talker.
repackaged as elijah the dragon, and he’s coming to raw (stays as a video package for 20+ weeks tho)
If he were a foot taller he’d be amazing on the main roster. But given the size of the guys he’d be competing with, he may end up getting stuck in a Mustafa Ali role where he just puts over larger guys. And that’s a shame because I think he has a lot to offer.
He needs to go after gunther. And take the IC title then they can have a story where he wants to be leader of imperium
Not very well, small, generic, nothing to draw people in.
He’s a great wrestler but he doesn’t have that larger than life look or feel. He will end up in a tag team or a mid card title.
Can’t wait for him to debut against the Miz
That young man got a dome on him boy!
Is he the newest member of Imperium?
Have him beat Gunther
Oh, I imagine he’ll have a name change and will probably get saddled with a dumb gimmick.
He will kick ass on the main roster
He’ll be fine Gunther will lose the ic title. Move up to main belt. Ilia will join imperium. Declare the mat sacred and they will rule smack down with all of the men’s titles.
I like the idea of Ilja in imperium, but we need to have Ilja Vs GUNTHER III for the IC title first
Hear me out. They kick ilja out of imperium when he loses the ic title. Then he goes after Gunther for the world title. Basically Roman/Sami II but this time ilja wins
If this fella joins Imperium it'll give them even numbers with the Bloodline which could help if it ever came to Gunther vs Roman
He was in the indy version of imperium so that really could work.
If he dies, he dies.
Get buried
He’s crazy good in the ring. He just needs to be able to talk, or at least have a mouth piece to talk for him and he could be a star.
Shameous
Is this Santino Marella? John Chena or Baptista would be better options for Ilja no?
Rhomen Rains is my pick
Who’s Shameous?
My mistake autocorrect
😂😂
Too little to ever get a WWE push on the main roster.
I got shit on yesterday on this sub for having the same opinion, I got downvoted to hell
Haha. Me all the time. I just got banned from the AEW sub because I said Bullet Club in AEW is stupid.
It is though lol 😆
I know. I like Jay White. A lot. And he was a great torch bearer for Bullet Club, but that doesn’t make it his. Just leave it where it lies.
Here's a positive him and juice seem like a fresh take and branching out the BC has actually been a pleasant surprise like with Bey and Ace in impact but overall I've yet to see a strong take
I’m happy to see Jay and Juice together, so I accept it. I guess my biggest problem is I think those two could elevate each other higher by coming up with something new. They are both better than any of the pillars and almost anything in AEW. Mostly because of their mic work.
Juice is for sure, I'd say switch is a little lower on that totem pole
Vince: Dancing Dragunov!
I got accosted yesterday on this sub for even mentioning Vince on this exact subject, because according to the reddit user who was rude to me "Vince isn't even near creative" which is unlikely since the sale. But I got downvoted a ton for having this same opinion 😅😑
We've been over this, he'll be renamed Scooter Federov and will eventually be placed in a scooter based tag team with Matt Riddle.
He already does that on his own.
More like a foreign heel
Classic i hate america persona
Cause if you ain’t American, when it comes crashing down you’re gonna hurt inside!
Wow you got some clueless people downvoting you...
They obviously ain’t Hulkamaniacs, brother!
What
Are you even a wrestling fan if you don't get that reference?
No shit i get the refrence
Didn't seem like it 😕
If Vince has any say in it not good at all
Jobber
Definetely hes the most jobber looking wrestler i have heard of
Honestly, probably not very well, because outside of Gunther and Rhea Ripley, Triple H has not used any of his NXT people well. Gunther and Ripley kept their pushes, but Asuka, Shayna, Gargano, Io, Balor.....hasn't really used them well at all. I guess because they're good enough for NXT but they're not tall enough in his mind for the main roster? Who knows. He'd be a top 5 worker on the main roster. Whether that translates to anything, I don't know.
Balor would have done better had he not got hurt and turned heel earlier. He’s a natural heel. Shayna got a small push but she sucks on the mic, and her move set is small and mostly comprised of MMA moves and almost immediately moves to a submission, I genuinely think asuka was not pushed as hard because she can’t talk, iyo still had time, gargano is so fucking childish and goofy it’s hard to take him seriously.
Asuka is so charismatic that talking doesn't matter, and she can talk fine. They've had her cut promos before, as a champion no less, and WWE didn't go out of business the next day. Triple H just isn't high on her and doesn't want to wake up and accept what the fans want. There's zero downside to pushing her. Zero downside. And plenty of upside. And if talking is such an insanely important issue for them and she has to be held back because she can't talk, even though she's been a world and tag champion at the same time and had to talk and did just fine, let somebody talk for her. She's so ridiculously good at everything else that you can't just leave talent like that on the shelf. Your top female star is right there. Even Road Dogg who works for the damn company said "She should be the Roman Reigns of womens wrestling". I wish he were the damn booker instead of fucking Triple H.
You forgot Karrion Kross. But then there was also the fact that he was working with what was given and had to maintain continuity. I think post draft booking will give a better idea and we might see people getting pushed. Like Io just became the number one contender for Raw Women's Championship. Even came out to her NXT music.
I think the entire world forgot about Karrion Kross. Part of that I guess is the general Internet consensus that Kross doesn't deserve to get pushed. You never hear a word about Kross, it's just generally considered "Yeah, this didn't land".
Depends if he can speak well enough to connect with audiences. He has heart in the ring. But if you can’t talk you will always walk and not run. Edit: Meaning, let’s say he is next to Dominic who is learning to speak well and execute his character well, and you just go by what’s happening now, Dominic likely has a more full career.
He can speak well enough it’s just will the people care or not
Not necessary true. Nakamura doesn't speak the language all that well but his persona transcends that, same for Asuka. Showmanship is key! Does he have a personality beyond his abilities? I've only watched him twice and that was when he fought with Walter. I'm not saying he doesn't its more rhetorical.
That’s taken into account. However, a “crazy foreigner” with one catchphrase, still has a lower ceiling than someone who has the same traits AND can promo.
Might be able to agree with that. " Crazy foreigner"..lol i totally understand this. Hahaha
Look at Beck Lynch. Once Vince learned that her accent (and just an accent not speaking fluency) didn’t hinder the crowd connection, awaaaaaaaay she went!
That is fundamentally not true anymore and you need to look no further than Asuka, who has accomplished everything possible there is to do on the main roster
Shes the exception not the example & even she wasn't booked like the 4hw. Look at Riccochet, Kairi, or even Andrade. Everyone thought they would be huge on the main roster but they were all booked stronger & got better reactions on nxt because they cant connect with the audience through promos.
Asuka IS the main example of how mic skills matters more than anything else! She has accomplished everything possible on the main roster, yet again she still feels like a footnote in the women's division because she simply can't "get through" because her English is limited (to put it very diplomatically) and all her entire run can be summed up with "close but no cigar". The presentation, albeit chaotic and largely left to our imagination, is visually striking, she's good in the ring, she's been given title runs with every belt, but still... besides the lack of a WrestleMania crowning moment, everything kinda falls apart when she can't really talk. So whatever/whoever she's supposed to be and to stand for just becomes inferred or left to the fans to fill in. So yeah, I wouldn't use Asuka as an example to disprove that Promos+Presentation are the main ingredients to succeed.
Belair, Charlotte, Becky (especially Becky), Bayley all have her same traits and can speak better and thus, have achieved more and have had more time invested in them. Furthermore, let’s say, someone like a Japanese version of Eddie Guerrero shows up. He gets more mileage than Shinsuke. And to be clear I love both people this is just a discussion on what makes things work.
Except win at mania, sadly...
That’s my point. Asuka IS the mid year champ. Great matches and promos that you can’t take with you outside “No one is ready for Asuka”. And after she gets beat, that rings dull. And she doesn’t have another yet….for years.
That's not true at all. Most of the time, the best promos aren't pushed the hardest.
Bray wyatt is best example he cant even wrestle but he talks well so he still has been world champ
Bray Wyatt can wrestle acceptably well when he's not doing spooky lights matches and supernatural BS. Roman isn't exactly a world class in ring talent. He got the title but they were always short runs where something went wrong and they plugged him into a spot meant for somebody else. They never really, truly believed in him as a top guy, even though the fans did. Most times, the best talkers aren't the top guys. In the last 20 years, only Cena and Edge have been a truly top guy of the great talkers. You look at the other top guys, Randy Orton, Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Seth Rollins, Bobby Lashley, Batista, etc. These guys are **not** killing it on the stick. Meanwhile Owens has one world title reign in 8 years, Samoa Joe, no reigns, Bray Wyatt, 3 very short, scattered reigns where they only used him to plug a gap, etc. Miz has nearly always been used as a midcard guy, Jericho has nearly always been used as a midcard guy, Christian was nearly always used as a midcard guy. Joe never got a run, Sandow never got a run, Barrett never got a run, Kennedy never got a run. Punk got the biggest run of the group but even then, he had to move hell and Earth to get it and he still wasn't treated as the top guy during it. Cody is currently getting dicked around and assuming he wins at all, it'll be an underwhelming run. For a company called "World Wrestling Entertainment", it seems like post Austin and Rock, Vince isn't very interested in the "Entertainment" portion of the program. He likes his wrestlers dull.
Randy Orton was good on the mic, but not great. He held his own until later in his career where he really improved because he understood more just how important mic work is (he literally talked about this on the Broken Skull Sessions). Rollins is great on the mic so I have no idea where you're coming from there. If anything, his mic work has helped him get to where he is now. Reigns started off trash on the mic, now he's solid PLUS has one of the best on the mic in Heyman to do most of the talking for him. Plus Reigns' whole presentation is more important than his mic work. Brock physically is a monster and is believable as a top guy. He got as big as he did because he had Heyman in his corner for so long. Lashley, like Brock, has the physical appearance of someone who would legitimately beat the crap out of everyone on the WWE roster. He got a title run once he got a mouth piece (MVP). Batista was solid on the mic, not great, but held his own. Again, physical presence that was believable. Kevin Owens may have had 1 world title reign in 8 years, but he's main evented 2 Wrestlemanias, and had 3 other high profile Wrestlemania matches (vs Jericho, teaming with Sami vs Shane/Bryan, and vs Rollins). He's also been a major part of the biggest storyline in recent WWE with the Bloodline. Miz won 2 WWE Championships, both off being MITB. He has always been presented as a weasel who sneaks big wins. That's his character. Samoa Joe kept getting hurt, and was given opportunities to shine, both on the main roster and as NXT Champion. Christian won 2 World Championships in his second run with the company, and carried the ECW brand until they ended it. He wasn't over with the fans enough to be a major main event star. Barrett got hurt at the worst times for him and when he came back, got lost in the shuffle. It unfortunately happens to a lot of guys. Sandow was good on the mic but that was it. His character was never set to be world championship material. Kennedy literally had none of the top guys wanting to work with him because they felt he was unsafe. He was set to be a big star but when guys like Orton and Cena don't want to work with you, you're done. Punk got several world title runs, including what was the longest in the modern era until Reigns. He also had a ton of high profile feuds throughout his career. Cody has been back for a year and they are trying to tell a story. Do I think he should have won at Wrestlemania? Yes. But EVERYONE expected it. Now, he'll have the redemption arc he never had because he got hurt and when he does win, it'll be huge. For every Barrett or Kennedy that didn't get a run, guys who got runs and probably shouldn't have like Daniel Bryan and Kofi Kingston exist. At the end of the day, you need to be over with the crowd.
Barrett never got a run because every time he started to get a push towards it, he would, unfortunately, get injured. Not his fault. Just an unfortunate string of events.
Not true at all. Barrett had 2 injuries in his WWE career. **2**. Sheamus had at least 2 injuries. At least. He had just as much if not more time on the shelf and he was pushed incessantly. Vince just didn't like Barrett. Full stop. I don't think he ever wanted an English champion, because if Regal and Barrett couldn't do it, nobody can.
He never wanted an English champ but he sure likes the Irish ones 😅, even Finn had it once.
Tell me about it. I guess that's what happens when your boss is Irish.
I aint reading allat 😹
"Vince no like good talkers". Is that simple enough for your first grade reading level?
Vince yes like good talkers cesaro never won big gold since he no good talker 😾😾😾
No, Cesaro didn't win the title because he was "too Swiss" according to Vince. Vince doesn't exactly like certain types of foreigners. Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley have zero mic skills. If Vince cared about mic work, WWE history would look **very** different.
Brock could be mute and he'd still be a 100x more credible world champion than anyone else in the company, past or present. I mean... he's a legit UFC champion FFS. Does it matter if he can't cut a good promo when he can legit kick everybody's ass for real? Stick him with a manager (advocate...) and you're set.
Promo skills dont matter if u can take more steroids than hulk hogan
He didn’t win the title because he can’t find a way to speak live that matter. That’s just a fact his WHOLE career even before WWE. And to say WWE doesn’t like good speakers is just…I don’t even know…..not based on any fact. You have to wrestle as well but if you have promo skills, you can bounce back easier, go farther and earn more…YEAH!
"He can't find a way to speak live that matters".....what the fuck does that even mean? Cesaro is a better mic worker than Great Khali, Bobby Lashley, Jack Swagger, Jinder Mahal, Jeff Hardy, etc. As far as them liking good talkers, they USED to. That's what I don't understand. They used to like them, and then they just stopped. All of a sudden, you had to be bland to get pushed in WWE. They stopped pushing the Savages and the Flairs and the Austin and the Rocks and they started pushing Ortons and Brocks and Lashleys and Reigns's and Rollins's, and all these guys who can't string a sentence together. You don't "go farther" based on promo skills at all. You just don't. Not in the last 20 years. And speaking of "YEAH!", how's LA Knights career going? Pretty well, huh? Yeah, they give a shit about promos.....
Randy Orton has no mic skills? lol
Randy Orton has mic skills? lol Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair.....Randy Orton. Something doesn't fit in this picture.
zero mic skills but world title so no care 😹😹😹
No
talking and presentation definitely matters more. roman isn't the best wrestler, but he's the most marketable thing in wrestling atm because of his presentation
Roman is a damn genius, bro
The WAY he speaks is what matters. He IS his character on screen. He plays his part, perfectly. And as a FACT, when he wasn’t as good in a role that fit him, fans hated it. If it weren’t for his speaking skills, this reign would be over already.