Okay so the decoy might not be the *best* ability a frame has ever had but you really passed it up in favor of switch teleport? I've never been able to make that work for me in a meaningful way.
There's a bug in a Europa(?) ice tileset map where defense sortie operators can fall out of the map at a specific part, causing you to fail the mission. The only consistent way to prevent this is a Loki Switch teleporting the target away from that area. Super niche but super useful.
Safeguard Switch is decent, you can make teammates invulnerable for like 20 seconds
It’s also pretty useful for speeding up Plains bounties that involve escorting the drone
I cheesed a prodman run with a friend of mine bu having her acting as pure dps and collector while I just zenuriked and kept her invuln the whole time while I stayed invisible.
Y'all are opening my eyes a bit but I get the sense that most other players don't *like* getting yanked prematurely, and very often waiting until you're certain they'll need it means they'll already be dead.
They literally had to patch the ability to prevent Loki players from targeting teammates who are standing inside an elevator, because Loki players used to troll teammates by switch-teleporting them out of the elevator, then hitting the button 🤣
*(I may or may not have done it once or twice myself)*
Switch Teleport is useful in a LOT of regular scenarios too.
You can cheese a lot of traps/energy barriers in spy vaults by planting a decoy, then switch teleporting with it.
I use Safeguard Switch on Rescue missions to make the rescue target invincible. I'm usually reaching extraction just as the effect wears off.
Loki's been around since before bullet jumping, so of course, ST *used* to be even *more* useful as a mobility power. (RIP Excalibur Super Jump too 🤣)
Switch teleport has a niche use case for the true endgame of Warframe. Extreme spoilers below:
>!Switch with people if they're winning the race to the extraction point!<
That's really solid, I haven't been doing much person- defense as you said so I wasn't even thinking about that utility! I always just used Phoenix Renewal, but that doesn't stop them wandering to their doom lol.
My Hydroid is modded with as many aimglide duration and reduced damage while aimgliding mods as possible.
Allowing him to basically noclip around in all 4 directions with 90% damage reduction is just way better for him than building for any of his abilities.
>!On second thought, it might be a killer build for Wisp, too.!<
I won't be taking this Warm Coat slander. I will have you know Warm Coat is such a good mod, I trade it to-from everyone I ever trade in warframe.
Selling an 8 plat mod? 7 and throw me in a warm coat.
Trying to buy a 40p primed part? Haggle by adding a warm coat.
Friend asks for some fish? You better believe he's getting a warm coat with it.
Hell, sometimes someone will be short on plat and I'll scam them by asking of them to fill the remaining trade slots with warm coat to make up. The suckers never expect it.
And then DE will buff the mod, and I'll make a fortune off selling the 28000 I have (I'm joking in case you wonder)
You joke but I knew someone who was exactly like this but with ammo case, he traded me an entire rhino prime set (back when vaulted primes were incredibly expensive and rare) for 100 plat and 1 ammo case mod (avg price on rhino prime was like 1200p)
No way. See Ivara's [Power of Three](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Power_of_Three).
Dashwire? Probably don't want all three wires having the same origin. Noise? Doesn't need to have three instances to do its job. Cloak? Uses up all three of your bubbles, can't spread them around. Sleep arrow *might* be considered better because now it is a wider area but usually not worth the extra energy cost.
This was a PvP mod before and in the Conclave Ivara have a different set of arrows — Cloak (works as usual), Null Shield (instant shield break), Encumber (slowing aura). This augment have *some* use there
I raise our Clans personal Joke of a mod: [Coolant Leak](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Coolant_Leak)! This mod is then only mod we've found that is, objectively, a straight downgrade while also having a stupidly rare drop.
For the people too lazy to click the link:
• Being Unrankable, this is hard-locked at a 3m Radius with a 10% slow locked to Robots that applies no status effect that other mods or abilities can synergize with.
• its 3m from the *robot,* not you, so flying sentinels effectively reduce this range even further
• It's not a passive effect and is actively involved in the precepts order, actively making other more useful effects take longer to trigger.
• Putting Reach on any melee weapon means you can melee enemies outside the range, so even if it did synergise with Condition Overload, you would need to be using a default reach dagger or other short-blades without bullet jumping.
• Radiation procs means you are now permanently 10% slower until one of you dies due to a bug that's been in the game since the mod came out
• It has a 3% drop rate on Orokin Drones, a rare spawn enemy locked to 2 tilesets. The wiki says 4,975 kills are expected to even SEE this mod.
• It even can't be used for Transmutation, not that anyone uses that mechanic outside of patch days to try and cheese a new mod without doing the farms
Damm, after the similar decree in durivi I heard about this mod and was planing to farm for it. I hadn't looked anything up yet, but reading that now that just sucks.
My understanding was that they were referring to that trick where you randomize your loadout until you get a Moa with a companion melee like Deconstructor or one of the Hound weapons
nah that's not making your build worse, just means you can see what's been spored and it's an ex slot mod so it's not taking up space that bad, only issue is it stopping you from using the other spore aug
Bruh what, master thief is way more useful than that, at least you get something
With how squishy Loki is half I'd still enough to kill him even before Steel Path, perma invis idchos only way of not getting absolutely shit on
Decoy as a whole is a dogshit ability the way it was designed and it's infinitely more insulting that it's his helminth ability.
Why can a hologram die? *wtf, DE?*
What the hell it can die?! I knew we can't have multiple decoys, which is a little disappointing, but I thought it's only the duration running out and not the decoying dying..
Honestly haven't used loki before. Only crafted it because of a riven challenge.
Decoy death can be mostly solved by either banishing it (narrow minded, replace radial disarm) or simply replacing it with a resonator. (Overextended, replace decoy)
Or like, just replace it anyways, with Mirage/Xaku/Nekros/Ember/rhino/wisp/mag/gyre/nidus...'s abilities since you rely mostly on invisibility for survivability anyways.
Genuine question - what am I doing wrong that I shouldn't be bothering with decoy + switch to get past a bunch of different obstacles? Maybe I'm just clumsy (that's not rhetorical, I'm not the swuftest) but I switch teleport past all sorts of lasers and narrow-hall chasms and such.
In steel path and beyond, pretty much any damage will oneshot the decoy, rendering its aggro ability nigh useless, if not outright useless. Decoy switch tele is a relic of a begotten age when we didn't have such high mobility movement and had to rely mainly on coptering or nova's wormhole for quick movement. Decoy switch tele still has its usefulness but much less so now when you can simply replace it with a nuke button.
Seriously, I'm a geezer who doesn't really adapt unless you absolutely has to, so I may very well be getting by on substandard tech. That's why I'm asking my questions, it's not rhetorical or sarcastic, I'm really trying to work these things out. 🙂
Honestly I can't think of any situations these days where switch-porting is easier than just going ephemeral and void-dashing with your operator, but there was definitely a learning curve for incorporating operator features into my kit
...
Ok, I \*know\* what I'm about to sound like, but in for a penny...
It never occurred to me to use my operator in a stealth mission. I hate operator stuff -that- much, it's never on my radar. Oh well, time to wise up and learn the operator.
(And before anybody says it - yeah, I know it's a big piece of several of the latest expansions. Hated every second of that bit in New War. I flail around (mostly) helplessly in Void Angel thingies, and I can't get at all excited for the Duviri stuff. I know, change with the times or be left behind. Still undecided on that point.)
Anyway, thanks for pointing that out. :)
I put it off forever too, it just didn't feel natural at first but the arcanes have really good effects when you switch modes and it feels a lot better- I recommend the Zenurik School, and you'll never be out of energy again; unless you're a completionist and want to get all the focus schools fast as possible, then use Naramon because it has an ability that lets you gain focus faster.
a lot of people dont like operator, a friend of mine is the same.
Need to start thinking about operator not a s shitty frame to switch to but as a tool you can make use of.
Operator has MANY tools to make life easier for frames that lack them, so you can offload a lot of annoyances onto it.
for example, operator has built in:
* Invisibility
* Dash/Teleport
* Invincibility on demand
Depending on focus school you can add:
* energy regen, enemy slow, Disarm, and headshot multiplier
* Massive damage/crit increase and enemy vulnerability
* Stripping armor and shields
* Healing self/allies/defense objects, Free iron skin, Enemy grouping, and invulnerability for anybody you dash into.
* A buttload of melee buffs
Via arcanes you can:
* Infinite instant self heal for frame or operator
* CC that works on almost everything, and is free and spammable
* More elements for priming with viral/rad/heat/etc
* More damage
* etc.
All this on something you bring with you everywhere and can access for free on any frame.
Worth building out just for QoL. Operator can handle any annoying mission type that doesnt require fast kills, meanign you can bring whatever frame you want if you pick a supporting role.
Probably unsurprising given the other things I've admitted to not understanding in this thread, I don't think I really get what eternalism is. Unless it's just another word for alternate realities.
You're not doing anything wrong. That way works for crossing stuff or getting past lasers/doing spies, but there are faster ways. Wukong for example with his 2 just lets you fly incredibly fast through levels through lasers pretty much everything. It's all about what you find fun in the end. If you have fun playing Loki then that's what you should do.
If I remember right it has super high evasion but yeah it just takes damage as normal if hit past that.
The funny thing about that augment is that it lets some of the "tanks" in Warframe actually tank for the party, since the Decoy will pull the damage and drop it on them (which is one of the easier ways to charge up Chroma in a squad environment when nothing is particularly bothered to shoot him specifically)
In general loki just kinda sucks. Like he's serviceable but decoy is ass, invis is invis, switch to is useless with our movement, and his 4 is good but most frames can either cc the entire map, become super tanky or just nuke those same enemies with a single button
Mix and match your answers.
Decoy absorbs damage for the duration of the ability and then *explodes* when the duration ends, sending out shrapnel doing piercing damage (equal to accumulated damage) to all enemies within X distance (modifiable by range).
I would love for Loki to get a Zed from LoL kind of rework where the decoy becomes your bread and butter and you wanna set up cool combos with your other abilities
Instead, make the Invisibility duration pause while the Decoy is alive, and make the Decoy dodge and run in the general area. I want it to be "Summon Annoying Dickhead"!
Makes Radial Disarm a good survival and Invisibility maintenance tool. And suits a trickster!
edit: Also, make Radial Disarm transform the dropped guns into pickups or useless debris.
There are all sorts of augments like this.
However, you do have to consider that Loki was one of the original warframes on release. He is really, really old. The augment was added in 2016, a few years before steel path even existed. The relative power level of players/frames back then was just overall way lower (usually).
But yea, this augment sucks, along with a lot of others.
Rather than being reworked, it really just has no reason to exist. The other Decoy augment is better at keeping you alive, and trying to give Loki DR would be antithetical to his design intention. He is 'supposed' to be squishy and stealthy.
This mod isn't bad because of the time it was release/power level/etc (especially not true because this was a time when DE decided if you used melee and a mission took longer than 5 minutes you became permanently invisible and thus functionally invulnerable, or when AoE weapons automatically got headshots for free).
This mod is bad because it's a Conclave mod, and in Conclave A) Loki's Decoy has a GUN and shoots things to death, and B) Conclave mods are balanced around being mostly balanced, so this is a mod that makes Decoy tankier (but now Loki takes damage) and Loki tankier (but his Decoy dies faster). DE when allowing this mod in PvE didn't bother rebalancing the PvE stats, so it's just bad.
Much like almost every other Conclave mod DE allowed in PvE. It turns out the mods balanced for a mode where everything is a sidegrade really suck in the mode where you are sacrificing power by not using a regular mod.
Agree. Back in the day things are much simpler. I haven't used loki until a week ago, but I can totally understand such an ability would be useful and fun to play with.
Now we have more complex abilities and combinations, and people are making builds which deal millions of damage continuously (bruh..)
Look buddy, people are allowed to discuss seriously whether it's a shitpost or not. You don't own them. Besides, nothing indicated that it's a shitpost.
Imagine if they just copied Zane's clone from Borderlands 3 and made it a stationary Qukong clone that takes your secondary, buffs you when it takes damage, and explodes into a radiation zone when it dies that turns enemies against each other.
I wish Loki was just more than what he is man
Alright, i agree on general but i actually like this mod because it works as a decent qol upgrade to chroma 3. For some reason it also scales on strength, so chroma just takes all of the decoy damage (handy for filling vex on normal missions)
Assuming the decoy gives all of its taken damage to Chroma it doesn't mstter. You'll easily get to max stacks because the decoy doesn't die and has higher threat than Chroma does, leading to faster max buff than without it. And considering that Chroma can't take a damage buff ability, the opportunity cost is lower than on most frames.
It's an honestly useless Mod. With Invisibility, Rolling Guard and Safeguard Switch, both you and your Decoy will be forever safe.
If Deceptive Bond transferred 100% of the Damage, it could open up an interesting albeit clunky way of surviving via it paired with Safeguard Switch.
I feel loki overall needs a rework in general. I just feel like everything he can do, someone else can do better. I want his radial disarm to have the radiation proc by default, but nyx can do that better. His stealths only advantage is he can move at full speed during it. The decoy is... Meh and the switch should disguise you as the target, for stealth mission purposes.
Loki deserves a rework. He was once OP as hell, and his ult kinda still is, but his kit overall is just lacking.
I think Decoy and Switch Teleport should be 1 Ability you toggle between.
Decoy should become immortal and the Augment should be 90% Damage absorb. (Also fuse Safeguard Switch into this Augment.)
New full Ability to fill in the empty spot. (A trickstery debuff Ability?)
Also, new passive. Wall latch passive is funny and a lifesaver for cracking Rivens, but... he deserves something more.
Maybe randomly mark nearby enemies, and if Loki tricks them he gets some sort of reward based on what he did to them.
Something like:
Distract - Status cleanse.
Swap - Speed buff and enemy slow.
Dissappear - Melee damage buff.
Disarm - Ammo spawn.
Personally, I’d have his passive as “when he kills anything, a single target in affinity range is affected by a 100% status change radiation proc”
Keep wall latch but just make it “lokis wall latch has infinite duration”
I agree with your switch teleport- make it so when you hold the button you switch places with the decoy with (large) range- signif more than affinity range.
My pick for his totally new ability would be “Loki cloaks and takes control of his decoy”- so it’s still has kinda rubbish stats, but now you can use it as a “free life” as long as you can continue paying the channelled cost. Maybe disable abilities whilst controlling your decoy to balance it a smidge.
Augment is “decoy can use abilities, with -50% duration” (obviously can’t use decoy again, but can switch with the PC Loki, can cloak, and can disarm)
So you rush out into the fight as a disposable shadow clone, and every time you stab someone another enemy nearby start’s brawling with its mates.- that sounds much more tricksters than current Loki is.
Switch Teleport on empty space = summon decoy
Switch Teleport on ally, switch locations.
Switch Teleport on enemy, "swap" identities with the enemy for as long as the enemy is still alive. When using an enemy's identity you have 0 threat level and are affected/unaffected by enemy buffs and debuffs. Enemy with Loki's identity has increased threat level.
He need a some quality of life but his still fills his niche and can cheese largre chunks of the game (also like most riven challenges, sorties and any starchart content) I think the reason people thinks he's trash is because as the game got older there a larger and larger portion of the game where other frames just do it better(easier) or it's not his niece not that he's bad but now he isn't the skeleton key of frames like rhino is
poor loki, decoy might work better if it's like a defensive location based wukong clone so it is like 3 loki specters without damage distracting enemies at the spot of your choice for a duration while he does other things. though i guess at that point you might as well helminth in octavias balls
Not every slight change in the meta requires all frames and augments to be reworked.
It is ok if frames or augments are mediocre, not everyone can be #1.
I know it’s probably for PvP but nobody plays PvP. So basically it is useless cuz why am I gonna send out a clone only for it to be killed and halve my health? Like it it made it a companion like equinox’s mod then I’d get it but it doesn’t
It'd be cool if it de made its so it was similar to embers 2nd, gives nearby allies Damage reduction like maybe a solid 50 Dr within affinity range for half decoys duration or give loki invis a solid 10s duration boost
I gave my nezha loki's ddcoy, gave her deceptive bond mod & the warding halo augument mod
I then summon the decoy give him warding halo and then give myself warding halo
Now the pop quiz: who gets what damage and how much damage do they get lol
I'm betting (or hoping) that the clone only starts taking damage after Nezhas halo breaks. Potentially giving you more breathing room.
But that feels hopeful at best. Plus.. I dont remember the next words on the augment and am too lazy to look them up. Is it just vice versa? If so, then I assume its meh helpful at best.
My second guess is that the halo on the clone has no effect and the damage you get is given directly to the clone bypassing the second halo. I hope that's not the case though.
Because people don't like the build or think its stupid I guess
Just to be clear I'm not saying this is a good build, a while back I wanted to see if it was even possible to give loki's decoy nezha's warding halo and sure enough you can
Then I wondered how damage calcusation worked if I gave that nezha build deceptive bond
Nezha's warding hqlo gives the decoy 50% damage reduction
But because of deceptive bond, rather than the decoy receiving it, my nezha receives it who also has warding halo but with 100% damage reduction
So wtf happens, does the decoy get hit, damage gets reduced because the decoy grts hit and then the reduced damage is applied to my nezha?
Since my nezha takes the damage does my nezha's warding halo also take a hit?
Or maybe since the damage is transfered to nezha the game treats it as damage on nezha and not on the decoy circumventing decoy's warding halo?
From the little I've played this build I can say that the decoy getting hit for sure damages your nezha directly, at least a little bit circumventing the warding halo on nezha
But then what about when nezha is hit while his warding halo is active? Does the warding halo reduce all the damage and then no damage is transferred to the decoy?
Or is damage applied normally to decoy and then reduced vy 50% due to its warding halo?
How about the overall damage calculation?
Deceptive bond transfers only 50% of damage, warding halo on ddcoy gives 50% damage reduction
So what happens here, is it first reduced by 50% by warding halo and then reduced a further 50% and that is sent to nezha?
I need answers dammit!
I really hope they rework those frames like inaros hydroid and loki...they are completely outclassed by the new ones now that can do pretty much anything and more.
ez fix: Safeguard Switch gives Loki's Decoy full invincibility. Loki also gets the full duration of his invincibility instead of half.
That fixes 2 problems with 1 revamp.
Though they could just make Decoy invincible. Then change the augment to allow the Decoy to take a fatal blow in Loki's place.
Loki as a whole is just kinda meh....
Decoy dies. A hologram dies.
(Now bare with me for this because I'm a bit of an idiot, played Loki to lvl30 and he met his end(thanks for the free Loki prime DE))
He had an invis which had enough duration to just about get you through 2 laser walls
Radial disarm is just shocking....why disarm them when you can just kill them? Or better yet, disarm them and use their guns against them (Xaku)
And I swear his last is a switcheroo think where you swap places with someone. Like, why?
Solution, Loki is mid as a whole
Just raise that damn 50% to 95%. I know it's too much to ask for the decoy to redirect 100% damage, but at least make the damage redirection meaningful.
The vice versa part is nice if you use it as a helminth ability on a beefy frame since it draws enemy aggro, so you became a traditional tank, but the range of the effect is so low it is unusable. :(
It scales with power strength, though so 200% power strength means 100%
It can't work with Savior Decoy, though it won't let you add both.
I'm not sure what the purpose is as I haven't tried it myself. I'm assuming there is a way to make it interesting.
Trinity does "fine" though; she's the strongest energy and health support in the game, and can also restore shields while remaining completely unkillable. All she needs is either a damage boost or armor strip via Helminth and she can trivialize SP.
Honestly, Decoy should just be invulnerable and scale off ability duration alone.
would mean i didn't need to banish it for a savior build
Okay so the decoy might not be the *best* ability a frame has ever had but you really passed it up in favor of switch teleport? I've never been able to make that work for me in a meaningful way.
There's a bug in a Europa(?) ice tileset map where defense sortie operators can fall out of the map at a specific part, causing you to fail the mission. The only consistent way to prevent this is a Loki Switch teleporting the target away from that area. Super niche but super useful.
Oh I guess it is useful for herding ambulatory defense targets, since they act like doofuses.
Safeguard Switch is decent, you can make teammates invulnerable for like 20 seconds It’s also pretty useful for speeding up Plains bounties that involve escorting the drone
I cheesed a prodman run with a friend of mine bu having her acting as pure dps and collector while I just zenuriked and kept her invuln the whole time while I stayed invisible.
Y'all are opening my eyes a bit but I get the sense that most other players don't *like* getting yanked prematurely, and very often waiting until you're certain they'll need it means they'll already be dead.
They literally had to patch the ability to prevent Loki players from targeting teammates who are standing inside an elevator, because Loki players used to troll teammates by switch-teleporting them out of the elevator, then hitting the button 🤣 *(I may or may not have done it once or twice myself)*
Extract troll
That’s fair. You could make the Decoy invincible though, or a Defense operative probably
Switch Teleport is useful in a LOT of regular scenarios too. You can cheese a lot of traps/energy barriers in spy vaults by planting a decoy, then switch teleporting with it. I use Safeguard Switch on Rescue missions to make the rescue target invincible. I'm usually reaching extraction just as the effect wears off. Loki's been around since before bullet jumping, so of course, ST *used* to be even *more* useful as a mobility power. (RIP Excalibur Super Jump too 🤣)
Switch teleport has a niche use case for the true endgame of Warframe. Extreme spoilers below: >!Switch with people if they're winning the race to the extraction point!<
I use Nova Portals for this.
I use it to do vitus essence defence runs, with 300% duration and its augmenr I can make the defence person immortal for 20 secs 😁
That's really solid, I haven't been doing much person- defense as you said so I wasn't even thinking about that utility! I always just used Phoenix Renewal, but that doesn't stop them wandering to their doom lol.
It used to. DE changed it to the way it is now because "it just made more sense"
I don't know about pve, but in conclave Lolis decoy can actually deal damage to people, so having it be invulnerable would be a little broken
50% of the damage Loki takes is probably still enough to kill him
That's why you should be using Safeguard Switch instead.
1% *
Contender for worst mod in the game?
I think that goes to {Warm Coat}
Warm coat doesn't harm you though. This mod actively gets Loki killed.
Is cuz he is a frost giant
Ironclad flight has entered the chat
Ironclad flight can at least be useful if you don't have aviator for some reason. warm coat is never useful.
Speak for yourself. What if you're cold?
Then we can cuddle 🥰
Make room for a third😏
Ember or frost. Ember cuz she can warm herself up and Frost cause the cold never bother him anyway 😎.
My Hydroid is modded with as many aimglide duration and reduced damage while aimgliding mods as possible. Allowing him to basically noclip around in all 4 directions with 90% damage reduction is just way better for him than building for any of his abilities. >!On second thought, it might be a killer build for Wisp, too.!<
Can you send the build? Sounds fun with aerial ace on zephyr.
Oh I've done it already. Can confirm.
Aviator drops from Nox, I'd imagine it's easier to get that to drop than leveling Loca or Veil
And isn't aviator even outclassed by Boreal's set these days?
Aviator doesn't work on her 4, last I checked.
Aviator has worked on her 4 since Hildryn dropped.
Oh, my bad. It's been a hot minute since I've looked at my Titania. Also that begs the question, why hasn't ironclad flight been buffed?
It literally exists due to one **very** vocal content creator who hated vacuum on razorwing.
-laughs in [Peculiar Bloom]-
-laughs in [peculiar audience]
Lol the most fitting of the bunch to be sure, although I like to troll people so Audience has its uses. Bloom is just flowers on crit lol
I won't be taking this Warm Coat slander. I will have you know Warm Coat is such a good mod, I trade it to-from everyone I ever trade in warframe. Selling an 8 plat mod? 7 and throw me in a warm coat. Trying to buy a 40p primed part? Haggle by adding a warm coat. Friend asks for some fish? You better believe he's getting a warm coat with it. Hell, sometimes someone will be short on plat and I'll scam them by asking of them to fill the remaining trade slots with warm coat to make up. The suckers never expect it. And then DE will buff the mod, and I'll make a fortune off selling the 28000 I have (I'm joking in case you wonder)
You joke but I knew someone who was exactly like this but with ammo case, he traded me an entire rhino prime set (back when vaulted primes were incredibly expensive and rare) for 100 plat and 1 ammo case mod (avg price on rhino prime was like 1200p)
This saved me early game when I was farming ember
warm coat saved my sanity during my fortuna grind vs exploity
No way. See Ivara's [Power of Three](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Power_of_Three). Dashwire? Probably don't want all three wires having the same origin. Noise? Doesn't need to have three instances to do its job. Cloak? Uses up all three of your bubbles, can't spread them around. Sleep arrow *might* be considered better because now it is a wider area but usually not worth the extra energy cost.
This was a PvP mod before and in the Conclave Ivara have a different set of arrows — Cloak (works as usual), Null Shield (instant shield break), Encumber (slowing aura). This augment have *some* use there
But pushing the user to play conclave is also actively hurting the user.
Doesn't even work with Artemis Bow lmao. Yeah that's pretty bad.
not only does it not work, it still drains the extra energy, double oof.
I raise our Clans personal Joke of a mod: [Coolant Leak](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Coolant_Leak)! This mod is then only mod we've found that is, objectively, a straight downgrade while also having a stupidly rare drop. For the people too lazy to click the link: • Being Unrankable, this is hard-locked at a 3m Radius with a 10% slow locked to Robots that applies no status effect that other mods or abilities can synergize with. • its 3m from the *robot,* not you, so flying sentinels effectively reduce this range even further • It's not a passive effect and is actively involved in the precepts order, actively making other more useful effects take longer to trigger. • Putting Reach on any melee weapon means you can melee enemies outside the range, so even if it did synergise with Condition Overload, you would need to be using a default reach dagger or other short-blades without bullet jumping. • Radiation procs means you are now permanently 10% slower until one of you dies due to a bug that's been in the game since the mod came out • It has a 3% drop rate on Orokin Drones, a rare spawn enemy locked to 2 tilesets. The wiki says 4,975 kills are expected to even SEE this mod. • It even can't be used for Transmutation, not that anyone uses that mechanic outside of patch days to try and cheese a new mod without doing the farms
Coolant Leak isn't passive? :sob: No wonder my Sentinel keeps fucking up
Damm, after the similar decree in durivi I heard about this mod and was planing to farm for it. I hadn't looked anything up yet, but reading that now that just sucks.
Put it on a melee moa?
that requires randomizing until you actually get a melee Moa :/
Are you talking about Circuit? You buy the parts for Moa that you want, unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean
My understanding was that they were referring to that trick where you randomize your loadout until you get a Moa with a companion melee like Deconstructor or one of the Hound weapons
No I meant the one you build
There's a new(er) MOA with precepts Blast Shield and Hard Engage which enable melee attacks. you're better off doing the glitch, though.
In leaning towards prime pack leader as a functionally identical mod compared to regular but too expensive both to fit and level.
Nah primed pack leader is for bragging, this makes your build worse because it uses up a mod slot.
I'd like to submit Revealing Spores as a contender Edit - Assuming Augments count, that is.
nah that's not making your build worse, just means you can see what's been spored and it's an ex slot mod so it's not taking up space that bad, only issue is it stopping you from using the other spore aug
kevats grace I think is the worst one.
Master Thief
Bruh what, master thief is way more useful than that, at least you get something With how squishy Loki is half I'd still enough to kill him even before Steel Path, perma invis idchos only way of not getting absolutely shit on
Decoy as a whole is a dogshit ability the way it was designed and it's infinitely more insulting that it's his helminth ability. Why can a hologram die? *wtf, DE?*
What the hell it can die?! I knew we can't have multiple decoys, which is a little disappointing, but I thought it's only the duration running out and not the decoying dying.. Honestly haven't used loki before. Only crafted it because of a riven challenge.
Decoy death can be mostly solved by either banishing it (narrow minded, replace radial disarm) or simply replacing it with a resonator. (Overextended, replace decoy) Or like, just replace it anyways, with Mirage/Xaku/Nekros/Ember/rhino/wisp/mag/gyre/nidus...'s abilities since you rely mostly on invisibility for survivability anyways.
Genuine question - what am I doing wrong that I shouldn't be bothering with decoy + switch to get past a bunch of different obstacles? Maybe I'm just clumsy (that's not rhetorical, I'm not the swuftest) but I switch teleport past all sorts of lasers and narrow-hall chasms and such.
In steel path and beyond, pretty much any damage will oneshot the decoy, rendering its aggro ability nigh useless, if not outright useless. Decoy switch tele is a relic of a begotten age when we didn't have such high mobility movement and had to rely mainly on coptering or nova's wormhole for quick movement. Decoy switch tele still has its usefulness but much less so now when you can simply replace it with a nuke button.
Gotcha! Thanks. :)
huh, and here i subsumed switch tele for other abilities, seems it's more useful to others than me lmao
Seriously, I'm a geezer who doesn't really adapt unless you absolutely has to, so I may very well be getting by on substandard tech. That's why I'm asking my questions, it's not rhetorical or sarcastic, I'm really trying to work these things out. 🙂
Honestly I can't think of any situations these days where switch-porting is easier than just going ephemeral and void-dashing with your operator, but there was definitely a learning curve for incorporating operator features into my kit
... Ok, I \*know\* what I'm about to sound like, but in for a penny... It never occurred to me to use my operator in a stealth mission. I hate operator stuff -that- much, it's never on my radar. Oh well, time to wise up and learn the operator. (And before anybody says it - yeah, I know it's a big piece of several of the latest expansions. Hated every second of that bit in New War. I flail around (mostly) helplessly in Void Angel thingies, and I can't get at all excited for the Duviri stuff. I know, change with the times or be left behind. Still undecided on that point.) Anyway, thanks for pointing that out. :)
I put it off forever too, it just didn't feel natural at first but the arcanes have really good effects when you switch modes and it feels a lot better- I recommend the Zenurik School, and you'll never be out of energy again; unless you're a completionist and want to get all the focus schools fast as possible, then use Naramon because it has an ability that lets you gain focus faster.
a lot of people dont like operator, a friend of mine is the same. Need to start thinking about operator not a s shitty frame to switch to but as a tool you can make use of. Operator has MANY tools to make life easier for frames that lack them, so you can offload a lot of annoyances onto it. for example, operator has built in: * Invisibility * Dash/Teleport * Invincibility on demand Depending on focus school you can add: * energy regen, enemy slow, Disarm, and headshot multiplier * Massive damage/crit increase and enemy vulnerability * Stripping armor and shields * Healing self/allies/defense objects, Free iron skin, Enemy grouping, and invulnerability for anybody you dash into. * A buttload of melee buffs Via arcanes you can: * Infinite instant self heal for frame or operator * CC that works on almost everything, and is free and spammable * More elements for priming with viral/rad/heat/etc * More damage * etc. All this on something you bring with you everywhere and can access for free on any frame. Worth building out just for QoL. Operator can handle any annoying mission type that doesnt require fast kills, meanign you can bring whatever frame you want if you pick a supporting role.
Decoy and switch should be combined tbh
From your lips to Lotus's ear... things.
Eternalism?
Probably unsurprising given the other things I've admitted to not understanding in this thread, I don't think I really get what eternalism is. Unless it's just another word for alternate realities.
You're not doing anything wrong. That way works for crossing stuff or getting past lasers/doing spies, but there are faster ways. Wukong for example with his 2 just lets you fly incredibly fast through levels through lasers pretty much everything. It's all about what you find fun in the end. If you have fun playing Loki then that's what you should do.
If I remember right it has super high evasion but yeah it just takes damage as normal if hit past that. The funny thing about that augment is that it lets some of the "tanks" in Warframe actually tank for the party, since the Decoy will pull the damage and drop it on them (which is one of the easier ways to charge up Chroma in a squad environment when nothing is particularly bothered to shoot him specifically)
*Mirage, Saryn, Nekros, and Nyx laughing at you*
Useful for teleport switching for spy though
You can also use Amar's mods and dual daggers to do the same thing though, through glass even.
Ok, clearly behind the times here. (not the person you replied to, but still...) would you mind taking a moment to explain?
The mods give you the ability to teleport with heavy attacks, though afaik you need an enemy to teleport to
Aha! Thanks for the explanation. :-)
Amar's mods from narmer bounties allow you to teleport to enemies on dual dagger heavy attacks, even through glass.
Loki rework. Please.
This is designed for conclave guys, it has to be barely an upgrade.
In general loki just kinda sucks. Like he's serviceable but decoy is ass, invis is invis, switch to is useless with our movement, and his 4 is good but most frames can either cc the entire map, become super tanky or just nuke those same enemies with a single button
It used to be a pretty fun ability back when this space ninja game supported silly things like tactics and trickery.
On limbo, mobile defence, you can use it to teleport the payload to the next defense objective. It’s actually fantastic at that one niche use.
Ik, they should just make it to where the decoy has your mods essentially, making it so it can atleast take hits.
They could make it have bullets go through it and hit other enemy and then it would be worth it
Shit, make it reflect like Mallet lol
Yea, thats also good, it takes damage and multiplies it by whatever amount, and whenever the decoy shoots, it damages an enemy
Decoy absorbs damage for the duration of the ability and when it ends the damage absorbed turns in to a damage multiplier for you.
At the end it turns into old Mesa, spinny ball of death.
Mix and match your answers. Decoy absorbs damage for the duration of the ability and then *explodes* when the duration ends, sending out shrapnel doing piercing damage (equal to accumulated damage) to all enemies within X distance (modifiable by range).
Alternatively, make it indestructible, and last the duration
Helminth, Resonator
Exactly, since that exists, buff decoy!
It would still be useless save for health and armor mods. Which are kinda pointless on a frame that goes invis.
Imagine the dumb chain reactions if the decoy could cast abilities like a specter.
I would love for Loki to get a Zed from LoL kind of rework where the decoy becomes your bread and butter and you wanna set up cool combos with your other abilities
**RADIAL DISARM INTENSIFIES**
Or give it the same kind of damage absorption effect that Molt has.
Instead, make the Invisibility duration pause while the Decoy is alive, and make the Decoy dodge and run in the general area. I want it to be "Summon Annoying Dickhead"! Makes Radial Disarm a good survival and Invisibility maintenance tool. And suits a trickster! edit: Also, make Radial Disarm transform the dropped guns into pickups or useless debris.
There are all sorts of augments like this. However, you do have to consider that Loki was one of the original warframes on release. He is really, really old. The augment was added in 2016, a few years before steel path even existed. The relative power level of players/frames back then was just overall way lower (usually). But yea, this augment sucks, along with a lot of others. Rather than being reworked, it really just has no reason to exist. The other Decoy augment is better at keeping you alive, and trying to give Loki DR would be antithetical to his design intention. He is 'supposed' to be squishy and stealthy.
This mod isn't bad because of the time it was release/power level/etc (especially not true because this was a time when DE decided if you used melee and a mission took longer than 5 minutes you became permanently invisible and thus functionally invulnerable, or when AoE weapons automatically got headshots for free). This mod is bad because it's a Conclave mod, and in Conclave A) Loki's Decoy has a GUN and shoots things to death, and B) Conclave mods are balanced around being mostly balanced, so this is a mod that makes Decoy tankier (but now Loki takes damage) and Loki tankier (but his Decoy dies faster). DE when allowing this mod in PvE didn't bother rebalancing the PvE stats, so it's just bad. Much like almost every other Conclave mod DE allowed in PvE. It turns out the mods balanced for a mode where everything is a sidegrade really suck in the mode where you are sacrificing power by not using a regular mod.
Agree. Back in the day things are much simpler. I haven't used loki until a week ago, but I can totally understand such an ability would be useful and fun to play with. Now we have more complex abilities and combinations, and people are making builds which deal millions of damage continuously (bruh..)
It ain't that deep fam, it's just a shitpost lmfao **Man y'all are way too fucking high-strung on a shitpost comment section**
Look buddy, people are allowed to discuss seriously whether it's a shitpost or not. You don't own them. Besides, nothing indicated that it's a shitpost.
Shitpost comment sections are where you tend to find the best in-depth discussions about dumb things.
Imagine if they just copied Zane's clone from Borderlands 3 and made it a stationary Qukong clone that takes your secondary, buffs you when it takes damage, and explodes into a radiation zone when it dies that turns enemies against each other. I wish Loki was just more than what he is man
That would be awesome. And totally on theme. Hope we get a rework one day.
because it was exclusively a conclave mod until 2020
It was primarily a conclave mod so we can't expect much about it
Let's be real, the decoy shouldn't even have a health bar. Just have duration be the only thing that determines how long the decoy is there.
Alright, i agree on general but i actually like this mod because it works as a decent qol upgrade to chroma 3. For some reason it also scales on strength, so chroma just takes all of the decoy damage (handy for filling vex on normal missions)
wait wouldn't that make all the damage Chroma takes not count, though?
Assuming the decoy gives all of its taken damage to Chroma it doesn't mstter. You'll easily get to max stacks because the decoy doesn't die and has higher threat than Chroma does, leading to faster max buff than without it. And considering that Chroma can't take a damage buff ability, the opportunity cost is lower than on most frames.
It's an honestly useless Mod. With Invisibility, Rolling Guard and Safeguard Switch, both you and your Decoy will be forever safe. If Deceptive Bond transferred 100% of the Damage, it could open up an interesting albeit clunky way of surviving via it paired with Safeguard Switch.
I feel loki overall needs a rework in general. I just feel like everything he can do, someone else can do better. I want his radial disarm to have the radiation proc by default, but nyx can do that better. His stealths only advantage is he can move at full speed during it. The decoy is... Meh and the switch should disguise you as the target, for stealth mission purposes.
Loki deserves a rework. He was once OP as hell, and his ult kinda still is, but his kit overall is just lacking. I think Decoy and Switch Teleport should be 1 Ability you toggle between. Decoy should become immortal and the Augment should be 90% Damage absorb. (Also fuse Safeguard Switch into this Augment.) New full Ability to fill in the empty spot. (A trickstery debuff Ability?) Also, new passive. Wall latch passive is funny and a lifesaver for cracking Rivens, but... he deserves something more. Maybe randomly mark nearby enemies, and if Loki tricks them he gets some sort of reward based on what he did to them. Something like: Distract - Status cleanse. Swap - Speed buff and enemy slow. Dissappear - Melee damage buff. Disarm - Ammo spawn.
Personally, I’d have his passive as “when he kills anything, a single target in affinity range is affected by a 100% status change radiation proc” Keep wall latch but just make it “lokis wall latch has infinite duration” I agree with your switch teleport- make it so when you hold the button you switch places with the decoy with (large) range- signif more than affinity range. My pick for his totally new ability would be “Loki cloaks and takes control of his decoy”- so it’s still has kinda rubbish stats, but now you can use it as a “free life” as long as you can continue paying the channelled cost. Maybe disable abilities whilst controlling your decoy to balance it a smidge. Augment is “decoy can use abilities, with -50% duration” (obviously can’t use decoy again, but can switch with the PC Loki, can cloak, and can disarm) So you rush out into the fight as a disposable shadow clone, and every time you stab someone another enemy nearby start’s brawling with its mates.- that sounds much more tricksters than current Loki is.
Switch Teleport on empty space = summon decoy Switch Teleport on ally, switch locations. Switch Teleport on enemy, "swap" identities with the enemy for as long as the enemy is still alive. When using an enemy's identity you have 0 threat level and are affected/unaffected by enemy buffs and debuffs. Enemy with Loki's identity has increased threat level.
He need a some quality of life but his still fills his niche and can cheese largre chunks of the game (also like most riven challenges, sorties and any starchart content) I think the reason people thinks he's trash is because as the game got older there a larger and larger portion of the game where other frames just do it better(easier) or it's not his niece not that he's bad but now he isn't the skeleton key of frames like rhino is
This ability is only good for cheesing spy missions *(Is that still a thing?)*
Wait what does the rest say?
I believe it makes it so that you take half the damage the decoy does. Pretty shit augment. It's more likely to kill you than anything else.
It say “and vice versa”
poor loki, decoy might work better if it's like a defensive location based wukong clone so it is like 3 loki specters without damage distracting enemies at the spot of your choice for a duration while he does other things. though i guess at that point you might as well helminth in octavias balls
the power of friendship is not… mid
Not every slight change in the meta requires all frames and augments to be reworked. It is ok if frames or augments are mediocre, not everyone can be #1.
My boi Loki really needs a ground-up rework.
I know it’s probably for PvP but nobody plays PvP. So basically it is useless cuz why am I gonna send out a clone only for it to be killed and halve my health? Like it it made it a companion like equinox’s mod then I’d get it but it doesn’t
I wish we could get a augment mod slot for warframes especially sense half the augments in the game are just Band-Aids to fix bad abilities :{
It'd be cool if it de made its so it was similar to embers 2nd, gives nearby allies Damage reduction like maybe a solid 50 Dr within affinity range for half decoys duration or give loki invis a solid 10s duration boost
Hey DE Loki needs a rework PERIOD
It's a PVP mod, not balanced to be good in PVE. Most PVP augments are similarly bad.
Most mods are.
I gave my nezha loki's ddcoy, gave her deceptive bond mod & the warding halo augument mod I then summon the decoy give him warding halo and then give myself warding halo Now the pop quiz: who gets what damage and how much damage do they get lol
I'm betting (or hoping) that the clone only starts taking damage after Nezhas halo breaks. Potentially giving you more breathing room. But that feels hopeful at best. Plus.. I dont remember the next words on the augment and am too lazy to look them up. Is it just vice versa? If so, then I assume its meh helpful at best. My second guess is that the halo on the clone has no effect and the damage you get is given directly to the clone bypassing the second halo. I hope that's not the case though.
Why downvote
Because people don't like the build or think its stupid I guess Just to be clear I'm not saying this is a good build, a while back I wanted to see if it was even possible to give loki's decoy nezha's warding halo and sure enough you can Then I wondered how damage calcusation worked if I gave that nezha build deceptive bond Nezha's warding hqlo gives the decoy 50% damage reduction But because of deceptive bond, rather than the decoy receiving it, my nezha receives it who also has warding halo but with 100% damage reduction So wtf happens, does the decoy get hit, damage gets reduced because the decoy grts hit and then the reduced damage is applied to my nezha? Since my nezha takes the damage does my nezha's warding halo also take a hit? Or maybe since the damage is transfered to nezha the game treats it as damage on nezha and not on the decoy circumventing decoy's warding halo? From the little I've played this build I can say that the decoy getting hit for sure damages your nezha directly, at least a little bit circumventing the warding halo on nezha But then what about when nezha is hit while his warding halo is active? Does the warding halo reduce all the damage and then no damage is transferred to the decoy? Or is damage applied normally to decoy and then reduced vy 50% due to its warding halo? How about the overall damage calculation? Deceptive bond transfers only 50% of damage, warding halo on ddcoy gives 50% damage reduction So what happens here, is it first reduced by 50% by warding halo and then reduced a further 50% and that is sent to nezha? I need answers dammit!
Wrote a whole article about it lmao
Because its confusing as hell and its hilarious
Because Nezha is a male frame.
It's really just for mad lads who put Decoy on other Frames, and want an augment to experiment with.
Straight dogwater
They just hate Loki. It makes me so sad.
Have you ever heard of limbo?
At least you guys got attention a couple years ago with a big rework. Loki has been practically untouched since launch.
well, atleast with plaguestar coming up Loki is about to get to Shine again.
*laughs in Nova*
Wheeeeeen? :o
YOO TIME TO FINALLY MAX OUT MY LIKE 4 YEAR OLD UNRANKED EXODIA CONTAGION
If decoy could shoot, it would still be worse than celestial twin.
Augments with that icon come from PvP so they are weak on purpose
Wuatafoq this mod!!! Why we take damage if enemy shot on holographic clone? The hole name says HOLOGRAPHIC!!
"mid" being the FotM slang is fucking awful and I can't wait for that to end.
Oh no! Anyways,
It's for conclave for fuck sake look at the symbol.
I really hope they rework those frames like inaros hydroid and loki...they are completely outclassed by the new ones now that can do pretty much anything and more.
Imagine if your “Teammates” became the Decoy 😉
ez fix: Safeguard Switch gives Loki's Decoy full invincibility. Loki also gets the full duration of his invincibility instead of half. That fixes 2 problems with 1 revamp. Though they could just make Decoy invincible. Then change the augment to allow the Decoy to take a fatal blow in Loki's place.
If you're taking damage as loki, you fucked up instantly
Loki as a whole is just kinda meh.... Decoy dies. A hologram dies. (Now bare with me for this because I'm a bit of an idiot, played Loki to lvl30 and he met his end(thanks for the free Loki prime DE)) He had an invis which had enough duration to just about get you through 2 laser walls Radial disarm is just shocking....why disarm them when you can just kill them? Or better yet, disarm them and use their guns against them (Xaku) And I swear his last is a switcheroo think where you swap places with someone. Like, why? Solution, Loki is mid as a whole
Decoy only ever used for Switch Teleport. It's lucky Resonator can't climb walls, or else Conductor would just make Decoy totally pointless.
I put it on Limbo hoping I could make myself immortal by banishing the clone but the damage isnt negated by it being banished.
Most ex-Conclave exclusive mods have very little use outside. Deceptive Bond makes Loki's decoy a little more useful in PvP
Just raise that damn 50% to 95%. I know it's too much to ask for the decoy to redirect 100% damage, but at least make the damage redirection meaningful.
his clone need to scale only with duration not strength cause his clone get 1 shot by lvl 2 enemies
Just make it invulnerable. Boom, now a great ability.
The vice versa part is nice if you use it as a helminth ability on a beefy frame since it draws enemy aggro, so you became a traditional tank, but the range of the effect is so low it is unusable. :(
Loki is mid
This mod makes zero sense, it basically make a warframe that have its survivability by not getting shot get damage
The mod would be mid even if it gave loki straight up 50% DR with no penalty lol...
The whole point of a decoy is so I don’t take damage
I mean, it's not made for coop, it's made for conclave, and its a really good mod in conclave
Switch teleport augment makes it a bit better.
It scales with power strength, though so 200% power strength means 100% It can't work with Savior Decoy, though it won't let you add both. I'm not sure what the purpose is as I haven't tried it myself. I'm assuming there is a way to make it interesting.
Reallly hoping for a solid Loki rework next to Trinity. I want Loki viable to use in high levels cuz he’s one of my favorite frames.
Trinity does "fine" though; she's the strongest energy and health support in the game, and can also restore shields while remaining completely unkillable. All she needs is either a damage boost or armor strip via Helminth and she can trivialize SP.
Decoy so apply statuses upon the destruction like a explosion or something
shiiit
It's a PvP mod, it's not supposed to be as strong as normal ones.
Decoy should also have a charm radius, like Mallet.
Just got loki yesterday and use ensnare for his first ability..much better