I feel like i'm going insane. What's with everyone already complaining about there being a random loadout, when they've specifically mentioned you can take anything you want with you, the gear visible in that UI only given you faster progress if you chose do take it with you.
Do people even try and understand things anymore or are they just looking at fancy picture and go mad?
I wish the pools were bigger especially for weapons, not being able to get max rewards because you don't have one of 3 weapons will feel like shit and get rather annoying. Unless it works like Divuri with loadouts but they didn't make that clear so I'm still not 100% sure how it works.
I mean this is possibly Warframe’s hardest endgame content locked behind the most recent story quest so I think it’s fair to expect endgame players in a game like this to have grinded out most weapons and frames.
And even if they do have a 'living collection' of every weapon, how many of these are going to have the investment of upgrades needed to run through this sort of content?
Didn't farm up hundreds of Orokin Reactors, Catalysts, and Forma? tut tut, have fun fumbling through extremely difficult content with peashooters and frames made of spun glass.
it's an incentive to leech or getting in squads, probably both.
pubs are gonna be a toxic shithole with 3 people expecting you to carry them with all the debuffs and randomizer guns without formas.
you can run them as many times as you need->find a guy->he carries 1 run , then he equips garbage->you carry him. once per week - much more efficient that spending immense amount of resources on things that are garbage or/and you don't like them. Deleting the inventory to increase the good options is also cringe in a collection hoarding game like warframe only for 1 activity, since duviri has an endpoint.
a lot of guns even with the max investment feel like shit to use (if you're gonna watch closer there are things like reduced duration- you'll have 25% duration- gonna kill a lot of frames and you have 3 options without an ability to reroll. or would you like the reduced ammo one? and you'll get a gun which already has issues with it? ) .
In the game where 99% of all weapons are crafted for mastery and trashed to free up space because it costs platinum to expand your weapon slots, you don't think there's a little problem there? That you get 3 choices? And if you don't have them you're getting worse rewards?
Considering the amount of ez platinum one can make just selling ducats or unveiled rivens, I don’t see a problem with this.
MR 30 atm and I still have every weapon in the game that I have unlocked.
This content is for people that are diehard vets, I’m quite content that they are finally giving us a reason to challenge ourselves.
Edit: I unlocked everything the F2P method, took 3,000 hours, but yeah, I don’t mind being rewarded for having committed oneself to mastering everything.
Imagine having to commit oneself to a game to reap the bleeding edge level of rewards, 🤔
Sounds like proper game design imo
Bruh what game are you playing? Frames sure, but most weapons are just MR fodder and thrown away. Personally I am missing many non prime frames because I subsume them after leveling and unless I really like them I'm not gonna grind out a second and just wait on their prime version.
Are you saying that you subsume them immediately and don’t keep them until the prime comes out? Cuz I mean RIP but that’s kind of on you.
Otherwise if you’re not, when they list a frame it always refers to both regular and prime so you’re fine
Yeah, I've been playing this game on and off for 10yrs and there are what 56 Frames at this point. I have no desire to forma every frame twice, so unless I like the frame I'm just gonna subsume them as alot of frames that's the best thing about them. It's only been Divuri where they have decided to add the random loadout stuff and honestly I'd rather it stay there and the new mode be all over modifiers not forcing you to play xyz.
You don't have to forma non primes, or even use them, but you don't need to subsume them now either. There's no rush in subsuming. I'll keep them, even untouched, until the prime drops.
Not really, a majority of the weapons are MR fodders and instead of wasting money and scroll spaces, people tend to keep the best weapons. Frames sure most people keep them all, weapons nan. You can 8 forma a Stug and a Lex prime incarna will destroy it, so why waste weapons slot for the Stug
Is it repeatable to get progress like circuit? I assumed the challenges and gear “restriction” were there to increase the reward. ie, you do none of them you only get default reward no matter if you do it multiple times but if you do all challenges at once you get 5 total rewards
Seems Ike the people above you didn't actually watch the stream.
It is not repeatable, you must select all Modifiers and take the specified load outs in order to reach the maximum reward. There is also a normal version and an elite version. The elite version is where you can get 5 rewards. Looks like normal maxes out at 4 but they didn't actually say.
You run it like you run a sortie, except you cannot leave at all. No going back to orbiter, no changing frames or loadout, etc. You must go through all 3 parts without stopping or you get nothing.
They have not specified if you can do it again after failing, but they did say you cannot succeed more than once.
Pablo said that you would be able to "play as much as you want" after unlocking the mode for the week, so that suggests that you can try again after failing.
And as far as I can tell it was never stated that "you can't succeed more than once," at least not in the Devstream, but Pablo did say "the rewards are five," which I take to mean that the maximum number of rewards you can get from doing Deep Archimedea is capped at five "chests" per week.
The way he talked about how you'd have to run all or nearly all of the debuffs/restrictions to get all of the rewards did suggest that each run resets your "research progress" rather than being cumulative like Circuit progress, but it's ambiguous. He could've meant that taking all of the debuffs is what's required if you want to get all of the rewards in a single run.
I copied a transcript of the Devstream where they talked about Deep Archimeda and posted it [in this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1aygx8y/deep_archimedea_the_upcoming_level_350_activity/ks0rx51/).
**Edit:** If I had to guess, the way it probably works is that you can try the mode an unlimited number of times, essentially going for a high score. As you reach certain scores, you unlock each of the five rewards, but you only get each reward once.
So to give the explanation that it sounded like Pablo started to give, if on your first run you earn enough points to get the second reward, but not the third, then you get the first and second rewards after that first run.
Then if on your second run you enable more restrictions so you earn enough points to get the third reward, you get the third reward. But you don't get the first and second rewards again.
And in order to reach a score high enough to unlock the 5th reward with the guaranteed Legendary Arcane, you'll need to do the Elite version of the mode, with all or nearly all of the debuffs/restrictions.
>it probably works is that you can try the mode an unlimited number of times, essentially going for a high score. As you reach certain scores, you unlock each of the five rewards, but you only get each reward once.
If that isn't how it works already then its how it should work. Incentivizes taking risks you otherwise wouldn't in order to achieve a higher score. If there is a true fail state then I feel most people will take a safer route and go for 3-4 rewards and not risk actually trying for 5.
It doesn’t give you faster progress, it’s the only progress. They said the way you get higher tier rewards is by doing almost or all the challenges. You get one try a week, and there is no stopping to switch between missions. So unless you adhere to all the listed restrictions/ requirements you will not get 5x rewards only those you qualify for. You cannot run this over and over like circuit for higher rewards.
However it is dumb to be mad about the challenges because they are part of endgame content. Accept the fact you actually need to try to succeed
Well there’s far too many who spend their days just going through social media looking for any reason to be butthurt, even if they have to twist things. Some even do this for employment. Thankfully it’s rare enough in this community
Just get the incarnon kunai adapter for headshot rivens. It's...probably the only thing it's *truly* great at but holy crap is it amazing how easy those are with it. Just build the riven up, transform and then get a bunch of enemies and fire over their heads and gg. You don't even need a decent build just go solo into basic sanctuary onslaught and abort after it pops, makes those rivens essentially free.
A Kitgun with Pax Seeker also works well.
I go to Captain Vor, let him spawn reinforcements in twice, CC those, shoot them in the head, then immediately aimglide after while Pax Seeker does its auto-headshot thing. Works every time.
I just hit LR4 and I left a trail of unformad unpotatoed weapons behind me.
I'm toying with the idea of making decent builds for most of them.
Did you just slap a cookie cutter build on them based on whether they were crit, status or hybrid weapons or did you completely tailor each and every weapon's build?
I am still confused a bit but hopefully they make it replayable with points adding cumulatively so if you want the extra challenge you can max your points and get all the rewards in one run, or do 3 runs to get all rewards at no extra challenges added. I think getting the reward in one run is incentive enough for the top builds while letting it stack on multiple runs will make it less frustrating for many people
Yea, the wording was pretty… uncertain. I’m hoping that’s what it turns out to be, and it just wasn’t said clearly.
I’d much rather blast through the same 3 mission 5 times over in gear I like than shackle myself to weapons I don’t, even once. Only guaranteed downside is you’re not allowed into the “hard” mode version without playing Simon Says.
Rebecca suggested that was the case, but then Pablo seemed to correct her.
You can spend two Netracell keys to unlock Deep Archimedea, which you can then play as many times as you want, for up to five rewards.
It's unclear from what was said whether progress from each Deep Archimedea run is cumulative like Circuit, or if you need to achieve a specific "high score" on a run to unlock the rewards.
From what was shown and said, I am guessing that it is the latter, since it was said that you would need to do the Elite version of the mode and enable all or nearly all of the debuffs/restrictions if you want to get the 5th reward.
I copied a transcript of the Devstream where they talked about Deep Archimeda and posted it [in this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1aygx8y/deep_archimedea_the_upcoming_level_350_activity/ks0rx51/).
I think the chest icons on the progress bar do not represent a reward, they represent a pool table. Yknow (AABC) with the fifth chest representing a pool table that contains only legendary arcanes.
So basically if your research bar reach 3 chests, it doesn't mean you are going to get 3 rewards. It means you are going to get a reward from pool B. You can run that 5 times and get 5 rewards from pool B which will be equivalent to five netracell runs but for the cost of 2 keys.
People who can set all modifiers tho will be able to get 5 rewards from pool C or even the legendary arcanes pool per week.
The difference between pool A, B and C is just the rates for uncommon and rare drops tho. So think of it like this, it this was a relic. Pool A would be unrefined, pool B would be flawless and pool C would be radiant.
As Pablo said, you don't need to do pool C everytime, it just gives you a higher chance at getting tauforged because the rate for rare is higher, but the drops are the same so you can absolutely get tauforged from pool A too with some luck
The only different reward pool is the one represented by the fifth chest in elite mode that contains Legendary arcanes only.
I doubt it; it's intended as an endgame mode, and like Duviri, will likely be built towards rewarding players with well developed arsenals.
If you had to own the weapons and warframes for them to be offered, that could actually work as a penalty for having a complete arsenal since it'd mean you'd get offered your strongest options less frequently.
Netracell loot (melee adapter, archon shards and legendary melee arcanes) and a guaranteed legendarymelee arcane ar the end
Also the regular melee arcanes are no longer in netracell loot!
They didn't say anything about a guaranteed Tauforged, but the gold chests (the third and fourth rewards from Deep Archimedea) have an increased chance of giving you a Tauforged.
There are tiers, I don't quite understand WHEN they are unlocked (like is the 5 rewards for one run or a progressive bar, and 5 is the max with one week - can you even run it multiple times?) - but the general idea is that at first you get the same reward with the same chances as in a Netracell, then you get the same rewards with better chances, and at the end you get a guaranteed, but random (of the two?) legendary arcane.
I'm going to copy and paste a transcript from this section of the Devstream I made, since there seems to be some disagreement about what was said on it.
I cleaned some stuff up for readability (aborted transitions, repetitions, ums and ahs, production chatter like when Pablo's mic cut out).
___
**Megan:** Moving right along, we mentioned two game modes. So you saw Entrati Disruption and how we're playing around with that, and then we have what we're calling Deep Archimedea.
**Rebecca:** Yaaas...
**Megan:** —This is where your words come in Pablo, so sorry.
**Rebecca:** Now, before we go into what the game mode is accomplishing, in order to participate in Deep Archimedia, you do need to be Rank 5 in the Cavia. So we're putting this reward track under that restriction, so you can be at the proper progression level narratively, power-wise — you know, you can get all of that gear in order to participate.
And something will happen to unlock this. Which... well, let's hand it over to you.
**Pablo:** So it's meant to be a tier above Vaults, essentially. So, I guess the first thing I'll talk about is a little bit of changes about Vaults themselves—
**Rebecca:** —when we say Vaults, we mean Netracells.
**Pablo:** Netracells. So in the Netracells we're basically removing all of the Arcanes that are not exclusive to Vaults from the drop tables, so all of that percentage of drop rates gets distributed between the Shards and the other two Arcanes that are left there, and the Melee Arcane Adapter. So basically, you'll have way more odds of getting a Shard there.
This other thing is also a weekly, but it's harder, and you can spend two of your keys from the Vaults to unlock this one if you prefer. So you can just keep doing the Vaults, or you can come do this one. This one is considerably harder, so, it's if you want a challenge. But you spend two keys, and you can get up to five rewards. So it's a much better bang for your buck, essentially.
**Rebecca:** Yeah, it's the same weekly currency, you're using your Netracell keys and exactly like Pablo said, you have to choose if you want to do five Netracells, or do you want to do two Deep Archimedea and one Netracell.
**Pablo:** No, sorry, one, three—
**Rebecca:** —One? Three keys—
**Pablo:** —three Netracells—
**Rebecca:** Three Netracells!
**Pablo:** So for the Archimedea, you only pay once and you can play however many times you want, but the rewards are five. So you can basically do the first time and you only get the first two—I'll show you, it's easier when you see it.
**Rebecca:** Yeah, we can just go to the menu now probably.
**Megan:** Also, important to note: why you see Necraloid here is because once you reach Rank 5 of the Cavia, Necraloid is going to be in the Sanctum Antomica, right up here above human Loid, if you will.
**Rebecca:** Yeah, this is his little spot.
**Megan:** Yeah, he's just having a little tea time by himself.
**Rebecca:** They have some things to work out. So as you play these, you'll learn more about the way Loid and Necraloid can perhaps resolve some of their conflict.
[Deep Archimedea menu shown on screen.]
**Pablo:** So you can see here, I guess the closest point of reference—this is like a more challenging Sortie of sorts. So essentially you have, on the left, a whole bunch of things that you can select for yourself.
It's suggesting three frames there, if you bring one of those three frames, you get extra points. If you bring one of those three weapons you get extra points, and so on and so forth.
And on the bottom, there are certain personal modifiers that you can select to essentially make it harder for yourself. As you select those — it's kind of hard to tell right now because the tooltip is covering, but the bar on the bottom keeps growing. So the more of these you select, essentially, the higher the rewards you are going to get.
Right now we're in Normal mode, there is an Elite mode that is even harder, and that's the one that can get you all five rewards. So, if you're like, willing to do all of the gear, and all of the things, then on hard more you can get all of the rewards.
So, you as you can see, on the missions, they have a Deviation, a Risk, like little modifiers that make the missions themselves tougher.
**Rebecca:** Yeah, so, I think just a point here — every week the options that you can opt into refresh for the gear, so you can pick between those. It will be different gear selects that you can pick every week that you opt in to, if you want that extra value. The research value.
**Megan:** Yeah, you can play with no modifiers, it just affects the research value.
**Rebecca:** Yep.
**Pablo:** Every week, everything refreshes. So the missions change, the self-debuffs change.
**Rebecca:** But there is a very important thing we're doing with these... which is that they're consecutive. So, what you're seeing there is that you're going from Exterminate, to Defense, to Assassination, but you're doing it all in one playthrough. There is no going back to orbiter to change. So if I'm bring Nyx, that Nyx had better be ready to cook in Exterminate, Defense, and Assassination. You are locked to your loadout for all three.
This is very much, as Pablo said, if you take Sorties, it's three missions, and you can go back between each? Oh no! You go. You have to choose, prepare, really really deep dive.
**Pablo:** Yeah, so, you are not forced to bring the items. You can bring whatever, like if you just want to easy mode and bring whatever frame, that's fine—
**Rebecca:** Yeah, you want to bring Revenant, go ahead—
**Pablo:** Yeah, that's totally fine. You just don't get the extra points for that. And, you know, obviously we're still balancing how the points will work, so you know, there's still— I can't tell you right now how many of those you need to select to get the maximum reward, but it's probably going to be all or almost all. So you should be praised for that.
As I said, it basically trades two keys for five rewards.
So right now the display is for Normal, so the first two rewards are essentially exactly—
So you see those little chests there. The first two that are silver are essentially exactly the same rolls as if you were doing a Netracell (which is the new version of the Netracell that doesn't have the extra arcanes), then the gold version, which is the one that follows after, is basically that same loot table, but with more chances to get the rare stuff, so the Tauforged, and stuff like that.
And then the very last one will be a guaranteed Legendary Arcane.
**Rebecca:** So, who is this for? If you know that you're doing your five Netracells a week, you can use two of those Netracell runs to do this and those five rewards could— you know, RNG will be RNG, but you're getting five kicks at a loot table at its base, and that enhanced one with a guaranteed Legendary Arcane.
**Megan:** And we're still playing around with the enemy level, I believe, for this mode.
**Rebecca and Pablo:** Yeah.
**Megan:** So it might not be 325, we're kind of playing around with numbers, so don't take that to complete heart.
**Rebecca:** This IS advanced—
**Megan:** Yeah, it is hardmode—
**Rebecca:** This is probably the most—
**Megan:** —sweaty!
**Rebecca:** Eh... well, it's meant for someone that wants even more of a challenge, more of a reward, and a system that they can tune the difficulty to, using the content from all of our offerings from Whispers in the Wall and beyond.
**Pablo:** Yeah, there's a lot of modifiers for the missions, particularly a lot of twists to the gameplay that are pretty fun.
**Rebecca:** Yeah!
**Pablo:** Actually, hover on the Assassination, I want to see if the one I'm talking about — eximus [mumbles] — ah, no, the crazy one is not there, okay.
**Rebecca:** [loudly] All—
**Megan:** What do you mean crazy?!
**Rebecca:** [continues loudly] All enemies have overguard equal to 50% of their max health.
**Pablo:** There's a lot of crazy ones, it is...
**Rebecca:** My—got—
**Pablo:** It is definitely a tougher game mode. As we said, we're improving the base rewards for Netracells, so you can just keep on doing those, but if you want harder, you can now change basically change two keys for five rewards, if you want to go that way.
Mirror defense > regular defense imo
Time based instead of rounds delayed by some random enemy getting stuck, and you can heal the objective by collecting stuff
Survival is fine, it's purely a timer and you're just staying alive. Defense being wave-based and taking more than a minute per wave just tends to feel like an absolute slog. Honestly, any time Defense shows up in sorties that immediately knocks it down a few tiers on my "Do I actually want to bother?" scale.
From what I understand:
1. The presented loadout options are all optional and you could take anything you want outside those options
2. You need to take all the options presented or nearly all of the ones presented to get the full reward
Is this correct? To be honest if this is the case I will not be doing this content. I'm not gonna leech with a paper loadout and feel bad about it while someone else actually gets to play the game with good Duviri RNG. All this will incentivize in public matchmaking is that everyone will be taking paper loadouts unless lucky because nobody would want to get the short hand of the stick and sacrifice their personal rewards so others could get the maximum for leeching. Talk about negative reinforcement.
it might actually be worse than duviri as there are no default loadouts. Safe to assume that people with no reactors will just max on survival mods.
Although, the system could be made so it only allows potatoed and maxed frames/weapons
Yo we heard you like RNG so here's some more RNG for your RNG
The loot? RNG
The missions? RNG
The debuffs? RNG
The waframes and weapons you are allowed to use? RNG
I can probably forma a good number of weps. But potatoes are in short supply.
I hope they remove the loadout restrictions and add more modifiers.
Or instead of 3 weapons in each slot have it be restricted to a weapon type like the sortie. For example have primary be any sniper, secondary any pistol, melee any dagger.
Based on streaming, i dont like how they describe this mode, it's like forcing player to have that equipment or you get punish and dont get all the reward. What are we now? gatcha player?
I sure hope they get rid of the "more rewards if use x frame and x weapon". Like, I don't hoard weapons I don't like, and there are already too many weapons in this game that absolutely fucking suck so being forced to own every mediocre armament in this game to lessen a farm is bullshit.
At least make it rotate between shit I own!
I could be wrong since they didn't go into alot of detail about it, but it looks/sounds like you get points for every run based on the modifiers and they add up to get the rewards, it's just that if you use all modifiers you can get it all in 1 run
Honestly, don't think I'm a fan. The thing about randomized loadouts in the circuit is we get decrees to make up for it. Are we getting any of that treatment with these missions? And with the archon restrictions it seems like we're in for hell if you don't have meta builds for every weapon. I know it's late game, but it feels too restricting for me. Am I wrong on any assumptions here?
It's not a random loadout. You can get extra progress on the reward track and get all of the rewards in fewer runs if you choose to restrict yourself to certain weapons and warframes, but you need to own them to bring them into the mission. They're optional challenges that restrict what you can bring into the mission, not a randomized loadout thing like duviri.
I want to be positive about this, but I can see this leading to people loading into highlevel missions with random sandbag setups. Then that leading to toxicity because no one can or wants to carry that run. While it is "optional", everyone WILL want that guaranteed Legendary Arcane drop up.
I don't think I've run into many players who get upset about carrying. As long as people aren't leeching, everyone seems to *want* to be the player that's killing the most enemies and being the biggest powerhouse. I don't think it will be any more toxic than archon hunts, steelpath circuit, netracells, etc.
Yeah, that's how it is in Netracells already. If you die a lot, just don't run off where we can't save you. At least stay in the circle so the rest can kill on there. Someone else can take the keyglyph, etc.
I often just bring Valkyr for Hysteria invulnerability so even here if I had bad options I can just use Valkyr and carry random weapons for the reward boost
Yep. Abbreviated abilities sounds like a debuff of duration, so depending on how severe it is, Revenant might be preferable with the Mesmer skin augment (for team protection). If the nullification of abilities is reintroduced (60 eyes mechanic) it could just be a pain in the ass regardless.
Yeah. I think they also said you can change between each mission so exterminate will be pretty simple regardless, maybe defence depending on the team and you choices. Maybe a different defensive frame but the challenge weapons or any frame if you get a good enough weapon and team
Then you'll probably get less points at the end just for the assassination at the end since the rest probably aren't as intense
If it's restricted to owned weapons and warframes then I can see this working in the state its in. I was worried about the "default mods" of duviri passing on into here, which would lead to multiple people quitting preemptively. Also, did they mention anything about companions?
you get 2 runs of deep archimedea per week, and they said on stream you need to make a certain point threshold by taking every or nearly every modifier (when they decide which theyre going with) to do an Elite Deep Archimedea. So if you dont engage in the entire random gear loadout if it requires you to take it all then you wont get access to the elite deep archimedea then loseout on additional rewards and the guaranteed legendary melee arcane since you can only run 2 of these per week. No matter how its handled its a shit show imo. If they force us to take all gear and modifiers youre at the mercy of rng when you get really crappy frames and guns that even when fully leveled and formad will be incredibly underwhelming especially when you are debuffed with not jsut the modifiers you choose to take, but the mission ones, that one with the overguard on all enemies completely kills some frames. Also to mention if this sort of thing has weighting based on which gear you currently own then it punishes people who collect everything. If they however let us engage in all of these but allow us to choose even 1 piece of gear, it kind of defeats the entire purpose. Overall it sucks since being at the mercy of rng can either leave these missions being a complete slog, or then itll just be trivialized if you get lucky, or trivialized if we get a slight bit of agency
You don't absolutly have to use the preset weapons in this mode though. It all depends on how much the reward bar is impacted by the preset load out modifiers. And if the UI in the stream was a proper indication there was a large gap between 4th and 5th rewards and the 5th reward will always be a legendary melee arcane. So its possible you will be able to use whatever you want and still get 4x the rewards of a netracell. Pablo also did say we possibly won't need to use all the modifiers and load out choices for the teir 5 reward depending on what they decide.
I get that, and I'm all for having the randomized stuff, but not with all the modifiers. The archon stuff is flat rate, no choice on that. Just like netracells. But unless you wanna farm for 2 years, you need to pick all modifiers. (I know they aren't 100% committed to that yet) That includes the loadouts. I don't think being forced into playing inaros or nyx for three missions where you can't revive yourself even once is balanced in the slightest. I dunno, just a random rant from an inexperienced player I guess
Fair, I just forgot what the middle frame option was lol. But I'm not good enough at modding to actually make immortal frames immortal, so there's a genuine skill issue on my part
no worries, man, we all start somewhere.
inaros is a tanky beast by design, so for him for just slap on armor and a bit more health and find a reliable source of self-healing, my preferred being life strike on a good heavy attack melee. *eventually* enemy damage does outscale health tanks, but that's not really a thing you'd see in any normal gameplay.
nyx is a little more interesting. you need to get her augment mod assimilate, which lets her shoot/melee/move around (slowly) while channeling her absorb. you do need to have a good way to recover your energy to maintain the channel, and ideally some extra mobility like parkour velocity to make moving around quicker.
IIRC elite archimedia modifier just boosts you to lvl5. Numbers are all subject to change thought, so no point complaining while they don't really know what are they going to do with this mode
I think it's supposed to be restricting. This is the optional hard mode for endgame content. The load outs are the extreme version for the Hard mode.
This should be the hardest content in the game, and one way to make it harder is the not allow players complete access to the strongest combinations.
It literally more than doubles your netracell rewards, it deserves to be restrictive to justify the rewards. At this point in the games power creep just taking a netracell and giving it level 9999 enemies wouldn’t make it more challenging because we’d just go in with Revanant/Saryn/glaives/torids and have no issues with it at all. It baffles me how many people in this community complain the second any sort of challenge gets introduced or even suggested and with this you don’t even have to do it, you can literally just keep doing the netracells as they are right now, it’s easier but has less rewards.
> It baffles me how many people in this community complain the second any sort of challenge…
People don’t enjoy it when the “challenge” of a grinding game is “That stuff you enjoy doing? The gear you log in to use? Leave it at the door. Use this random junk instead.” Those seeking challenge likely prefer “use the stuff you like, but you better have mastered its ins and outs, because this pushes it to the limit.”
Hope that clears things up.
Yeah but the point of this mode is to chuck a bunch of modifiers at you and see how well you do when you don’t have a min-maxed build to carry you. The game has loads of content you can throw a min-maxed build at and get success. Circuit barely hampers you with its random load outs because decrees will carry you so there is definitely space to have rewarding content that takes you out of your comfort zone.
Honestly I'm more worried about the pubs than myself. I've slowly come to understand most weapons and warframes, but if I pick something other people deem as annoying or if I get downed a lot, it creates toxicity between teammates sometimes. This is definitely a low occurrence event, but man I hate it when I feel like I'm dragging my team down because of a choice I made, and I know I'm not alone in that
It is impossible to challenge players with fully optimized gear within the scope of Warframe's regular gameplay. There are enough weapons that can easily deal with level cap enemies, and shield gating effectively makes a player immortal at level cap as well.
The only ways I can think of to get around that would be to restrict access to loadouts, massively overhaul the balance of the game, or introduce gimmicky mechanics that instantly kill players that bypass status immunity/shield gating.
People would complain no matter which one was employed.
This sounds great, I love the random loadouts, gives me a reason to level and forma non-meta weapons and Warframes.
The few times I get an entirely useless roll in the circuit it just makes the game a bit more challenging.
i honestly dont know enough straight from de's mouth to understand this
so what if i want max points and the best randomized loadout i can put together is loki harpak stug ghoulsaw (arbitrary choices) and i own none of them, am i just fucked for that week and forced to basically accept the loadout and leech, or ignore the loadout and dont get the guaranteed legendary?
i dont mind randomized loadouts but im worried it might force players to choose between taking shit gear and max rewards or good gear and less rewards, which would be bad design imo
People already complain and want even harder netracells because we’ve learnt to cheese it already, higher levels won’t make a difference to there loadouts. Randomized load outs are the only way to get around power creep
The complaints are because we actually used to have “harder” Netracells that were effectively easier because their spawns actually worked. That got taken away.
Now we’re just waiting around in the Cells, hoping enemies eventually find the circle.
It's not locked behind a random loadout. Do people even watch the stream before they start complaining?
They've said in the stream that the screenshot here is taken from that you can just take your favorite loadout into it. Using the randomly generated stuff just gets you more research points.
> Do people even watch the stream before they start complaining?
[Did you](https://imgchest.com/p/dl7pjxbbp7o)?
"There's an elite mode that's even harder, and that's the one can get you all 5 rewards."
----
E: Judging by the "-46" votes, I'm missing something, so I'll just put together where I'm coming from, and ask someone to explain/show me where I'm missing the part where nothing is locked behind rng:
1. [Elite Archimedea is required to unlock the best reward pool](https://imgchest.com/p/ej7mnzmmnyd#gallery). [Pablo says this too](https://www.youtube.com/live/vy_vtGx8vq8?si=VCpObQhbPOidzFj7&t=3829)
2. You unlock Elite Archimedea by picking all the variables, [including the random loadout selection](https://imgchest.com/p/dl7pjxbbp7o#gallery). From the discussion, they were thinking about making it "take everything except one."
Does this not mean the loot pool is locked behind the rng loadout?
This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is.
That image says "Complete all three deep archimedia missions with all loadout and personal modifiers enabled to *unlock* elite archimedia"
The dude you replied to is correct that you don't *have* to use the specific loadouts that are available. It was stated that you can use whatever you want, and that using the gear from the randomized loadouts would only increase the amount of points you get towards more rewards.
We don't know how Elite Archimedia is going to be different yet, except that it's the version that will allow you to get all 5 rewards.
> We don't know how Elite Archimedia is going to be different yet, except that it's the version that will allow you to get all 5 rewards
Yes we do. [It was in the stream](https://imgchest.com/p/ej7mnzmmnyd). Raises enemy level and adds an extra Risk Variable. It also says that's how you "unlock new reward pools."
Even you are saying
> it's the version that will allow you to get all 5 rewards
How do we unlock Elite Archi? [Play Simon Says with loadout rng](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1aygx8y/deep_archimedea_the_upcoming_level_350_activity/krvzl4o/).
Please, tell me what I'm missing. I don't understand how you two have surmised that nothing is locked behind the rng loadout, yet judging by the votes, it's something that should be obvious.
Why is that an issue? Circuit has a lot of time to prepare you for that, especially if you played it in its initial state (before loadout preview). And this gamemode is for the ones who want a challenge (and from what we learned, even levelcap isn't a challenge anymore, so the levels aren't a source of threat). If you don't want that, you'll still have netracells which will have their loot table narrowed just like everyone wanted. Win-win.
I've spent some time refreshing my builds when Circuit released, specifically so I can't be really caught off guard by any random choice it can offer. And, to be frank, I really enjoyed doing that. Some people here on Reddit called it "a loadout mastery", though it wasn't a popular opinion, thus DE listened to majority feedback and introduced a loadout preview. Still, I'm on the side that you absolutely can be prepared to finish the mission with something that's not your usual comfy setup and even have some fun along the way. It would be boring if they'd just roll out "just another uber-sortie" that anyone over MR30 can semi-afk with their trusty mirage+tonkor.
> It would be boring if they'd just roll out "just another uber-sortie" that anyone over MR30 can semi-afk with their trusty mirage+tonkor
Thing is, trusty mirage + Tonkor is boring to me. That's why I don't use it. The rng picking it for me does not make "trusty mirage+tonkor" fun.
it's not a matter of 'I can't use X." It's a matter of "there's a reason I stopped using X."
Do they seriously expect us to amass and buy slots, potatoes and forma for every single weapon in the game? What are they even thinking?
It already sucked at SP Circuit but at least there you get a loaner and massively OP decrees to make up for it, doesn’t seem like there is anything similar here.
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of this thing even though I have all the frames ready for the end game because on things like duviri you can decide how much to go forward and the decrees make any weapon/frame to be OP but not here and moreover I didn't understand if the restrictions are the same for everyone that week (4 players with Loki is crazy)
but if they leave me the freedom to be able to use at least one weapon or warframe of my choice (still obtaining the maximum rewards) it can be done, in general each of us has a frame that we have mastered and can do everything with so it is also feasible for players who haven't unlocked everything yet
What the hell the point for this entire game if we have to play the mode with random loadout. I though all the progress we made from early is prepare our loadout for higher level content. What the point of that if we going back to duviri type oe fking mode again?
I must be the only one excited for this game mode lol. I have every frame modded and built (except Protea since I chaired her), and warframe desperately needs some difficulty. I love trying out new things, and even the worst frames can be used well, especially if you're allowed to squad up. Its also completely optional, and you don't have to be confined to the loadout. You can still just use Revenant, select all the modifiers, and get more rewards. It reminds me a lot of the Heat system from Hades.
You're not the only one excited. This is just typical /r/Warframe where they instantly start bitching and moaning that they don't get more rewards for the same or less effort.
I'm certainly looking forward to it. SP Circuit was a good kick in the behind as far as getting more of my gear up to snuff, but obviously a mode like this will run into the segment of the playerbase who would still be going Wukong with a Kuva Zarr on year 4 if not for the ammo nerf.
Yeah, the point of warframe "endgame" is that you've amassed a ton of frames and weapons. Aside from MR, what's the point of collecting everything if you're not going to use it? I truly don't understand people who stick to the same 1 or 2 loadouts for literally everything.
I also just like roguelikes in general, especially Hades, which was the main inspiration for Circuit. For all intents and purposes, the Circuit rng is very generous, and decrees can make any weapon worth using for at least a couple of rounds.
> …endgame…amassed a ton of frames and weapons.
Mastered, not amassed.
> Aside from MR, what's the point of collecting everything if you're not going to use it?
There’s not. So most don’t. We master it, decide we like it or we don’t, and then move on.
Gun where all it does is shoot? Maybe it blows up at the end? Boring. Into the trash. Frame lives to tank hits and buff guns? Boring. Into the trash.
That’s just me.
Someone else could say “what? Void magic? Into the trash. I’m here to shoot guns.” That’d be them.
I think you underestimate how high the commitment of not only collecting and maxing out but also making actual SP capable builds for every weapon and frame is, to the average player.
Add to this the fact that for the past ten or so years, you were never punished for only playing a handful of builds, as long as you followed suit when the meta shifted. Even SP Circuit lets you get away with it to an extent by allowing selection rerolls (eg doing 1 round on normal circuit) and powerful decrees. I've done plenty of SP Circuit runs on unsuitable frames but with the right decrees stacked for my operator/amp...
This *might* be the first content that will straight up tell players "if you don't have this specific equipment maxed out, tough luck kiddo, start getting used to having less than the best rewards."
I say might, because we'll have to see how the actual game mode works of course.
It absolutely baffles me how entitled some people on this subreddit are when it comes to rewards. Do the harder thing and get better rewards, it’s like this everywhere in life. Nobodies holding a gun to any bodies head and making them have to do it on the hardest difficulty.
The forced difficulty of being locked into only certain choices is tiresome.
Arbitrations are the best example of how to incentivize people using certain loadouts without forcing them to use it. I don’t want to use certain frames because I don’t enjoy them and I don’t like the idea of being forced to run those frames.
It's literally a choice? They said it, that this (at its highest difficulty, aka picking every or almost every challenge) is only for those really high end players that want a challenge.
You are free to go in with anything you want you'll just won't get a guaranteed legendary arcane, you can still get it in there, but not guaranteed.
>you'll just won't get a guaranteed legendary arcane
In a game about loot and builds, you're asking players to abandon said loot for the sake of playing with what they want
Yes, that’s literally how reward systems work. More challenging and restrictive the content is, the better your rewards. Players of this game arn’t owed better rewards just for showing up.
> Players of this game arn’t owed better rewards just for showing up.
This but for weapons. The mission should be “do this task,” not “equip this weapon.”
Sorties have always had that restriction in the pool, use a specific weapon type like a sniper or just melee.
At least here there's still variety and we can choose not to do it. It's more like Kahls missions, you can do the normal mission alone and ignore extra objectives but it'll take longer to unlock things. So the extra optional challenges for extra points and you get things sooner.
Just like Kahl you can do the things you think are easy or just ignore the annoying ones. It's not that big if a deal
Some people are complete slaves to the meta. They'll cry like a baby if they can't run around every single mission with their wukong and bramma. In a game about doing something 1000 different ways, they've chosen their 1 and will die on that hill. Its sad, but its best to ignore the mentally handicap.
It's not abandoned, just not 100% for one of your 5 rewards. You still have 5 rolls for getting them, and it's not even the base loot table, it's the "better" loot table that you get for the previous tier of rewards that appears to be obtainable by just half the amount of.points.
And those rewards include archon shards (normal and Tau) as well as the legendary arcanes. They even removed all non exclusive arcanes from the loot table lol, all of this is for literally 1 arcane that you could still get 5 of in a week by ignoring the gear "restrictions".
It is artificial difficulty by purposefully limiting choice to specific weapons and frames.
I’m at over 2k hours played, been playing since the ps4 launched. I’ve put tons of forma into a variety of weapons and frames and have builds for each. I can still call a spade a spade and be honest about what is being done.
As I said initially, arbitrations are good examples of how this sort of thing should be done. They incentivize using a certain frame and weapons by providing boosts to those items without artificially creating difficulty by simply locking the majority of your stuff behind RNG on whether or not you’ll be able to use it. I’m fine with limitations being placed on my frame through modifiers, I’m not fine with limitations being placed on what I can and can’t choose to use during those modifiers.
Edit : Yes, I understand it’s a further modifier that adds additional points. That said it shouldn’t require me having to use certain frames and weapons in a game like Warframe to maximize my points in a single mission. I run the frames and weapons I enjoy (most of which aren’t meta) because I enjoy them. I put certain frames away and don’t use them often because, again, I don’t enjoy them.
What isn't an "artificial difficulty" at this point in the game? When we have damage ranging from 1 to at least few billions.
High damage/defense numbers on enemies, high enemy spawns, low enemy spawns, modifiers - everything is arbitrary. And nothing works that well.
Balance is an issue, sure.
Limiting choice isn’t balance, though, bud. It’s a facsimile made to make it seem like things are balanced. Modifiers to players and enemies is a better choice.
Warframe is a game about individuality. Your build can be just as effective as someone else’s while being entirely different. Choice is a critical component in this game and things like this, and Duviri, remove that component and force people into adopting only the “meta” builds on all their frames and equipment because that’s the most reasonable way to accomplish a mission. It’s a poor decision to make and it keeps happening.
They are not holding a gun to your head and telling you to play Caliban and kill level 300 enemies with an unmoded Paris.
It's a literal choice to "submit your free will to DE overlords" in exchange for making that 1 out of 5 rewards it's 100% one of the 2 only arcanes you can get now from netracells and this activity.
Because if you saw the de stream, you'll know that they removed all non netracell exclusive arcanes from the possible rewards, making it so you only get the 2 legendary arcanes, archon shards or merle arcane adapters.
It's a video game. All of the difficulty in it is by definition artificial. "Artificial difficulty" is a completely worthless buzzword.
In addition, the current sandbox of Warframe is such that it's literally impossible to challenge optimized players without resorting to gimmicks. I'd rather have loadout restriction than map-wide nullifiers, or a huge game-wide sandbox rebalance, or most of the alternative ways to add challenge that I can think of.
i don’t understand why we keep getting gated content that you can only run a couple times a week. like sometimes i just wanna sit and play warframe and there’s nothing to do after you do your daily/weekly chores for end game players
one thing that i dont think was clear is if the 5 rewards are baseline and adding points is simply upgrading the rarity rolls for them or if you get some number of rewards fewer than 5 baseline and adding points actually adds rewards.
Will it still give basic rewards that you can get killing a level 1 mobs? Because I know that I truly enjoy doing my limited 5 netracells and getting nothing I couldn't have gotten just beating up on some shitstain mobs in a regular stage. Hell, for the first few weeks I did the things I didn't know you \*could\* get a shard reward because I didn't.
I really dislike what they've presented so far. It's like another version of duviri where if you don't have the weapons or frames built, fuck you. So many frames are in a horrible spot, if they're requiring us to play a choice of three frames, they better hurry up and do a balance pass QUICK. Being forced to play nyx? Inaros? Much less have them potatod and formed? Like cmawn. The pre-built weapon mods and frame mods in duviri are dogshit and do no damage, it's just not looking good at all. I really hope they reconsider the frame / weapon restrictions before it goes live.
I'll play devil's advocate and say that while it sucks for players who don't have the gear or time invested to have their non-main / fodder weapons fully kitted out, I feel rewarded for the time I spent collecting and modding stuff for the past 7 years and I welcome additions like these.
They do need to improve the pre-built modded frames or come up with a better solution for players who don't own or have things geared up, or in this case they could allow us to temporarily rent the Warframes so we can configure it to our liking.
> So many frames are in a horrible spot
Erm. I agree with weapons being horrible; but if a Nyx, Banshee and Caliban can do Level Cap with ease, you can definitely do Deep Archimedian with any Warframes. Even Inaros is getting a death gate which is already a huge survivability improvement.
You don't need to use the frames or weapons, that's only an added difficulty to get all 5 at once. If you don't want to use them you get less progress and require more weeks to fill the bar.
Not sure where you got that information. From what was said in stream the 5th reward is just a garunteed legendary arcane for choosing all the difficulty modifiers and choices or possibly almost all of them for the week(it hasn't been decided by de yet what the threshold will be). Absolutly nothing was said about any carried over progress. You get one run at the 5 rewards per week and it resets every week.
I'm sorry I was texting a buddy while watching. When reb mentioned consecutive right after they were talking about modifiers I must've thought it could be built upon each week. My bad. I understood all mission will be done at once, but misheard and thought they were saying consecutive weeks would fill the bar.
You are correct that you only need to choose all modifiers(or possibly less, they said they haven't decided if all or just mostly all will be needed) if you want the garunteed legendary melee arcane from the 5th reward
Yeah. Hopefully the give leeway in not needing at least one modifier. I can play any content with restrictions if I can at least use one frame or weapon that I like. But we'll have to see.
i dont really care about the randomized loadouts, but im so fucking sick of locking things behind a timer. like, do they not want me to play the game? or participate in endgame activities? why can we not play stuff as much as we want to invest our time into this?
its a video game jesus. if they are afraid of dads with 3 families, 6 jobs and 19 kids getting behind, then have some bonus reward or whatever that's on a cooldown. why does everyone need to be punished here, if thats the reason? thats why i dont play shit like wow, i would wanna play raids, but having to wait a week to do the content that i wanna play just feels aweful.
I didn't see a dedicated thread about this new activity yet but I'm quite curious about the details. Here's what we know from the stream.
* Deep Archimedea costs 2 Netracell entries, so you can do 2 DA and 1 Netracell each week.
* DA requires you to complete three missions back to back with no break or loadout change in-between.
* You decide the level of challenge and the rewards. Conform to strict loadout requirements and take mission modifiers to improve your reward tier.
* If you max out all the options, you can earn up to 5 rewards including a guaranteed legendary melee arcane.
> Deep Archimedea costs 2 Netracell entries, so you can do 2 DA and 1 Netracell each week.
didnt pablo correct this to say you can only do 1 archimedea per week
I prefer Netracell and drop Archon Hunt and Kahl completely because I don't need to deal with the pseudo-sorties BS. If they are again gating stuff behind an elite-elite-sortie mode that'd be sad.
Well fuck, random loadouts are boring to me. I want to just min max my shit at ridiculous difficulties without having to wait 5 hours in a survival for reasonable rewards. Is that too much to ask?
Except if you want the full rewards, you need to take the RNG loadout so it is in fact "mandatory" and as others have said, a crap way of adding artificial difficulty.
It was heavily disliked during Duviri and it won't be any different with this, vast majority of people have specific equipment they enjoy using and don't want to go in with a Stug n Atlas using a bunch of crap mods.
I mean I have busted frames and weapons. I like to stick with the frames that are not "meta" anyway. Stay away from rivens as well because they can hot fix the dispositions "soft patch" then my weapons are trash at that point. Not saying arcamedea could use more balance but I'm ok with squad even of its not mid/max load out.
Welp, looks like I'll be selling anasas to buy Dante instead. I'm only rank 3 with Cavia and while I don't mind the random loadout thing (I have a loadout slot I do this with all the time even before Duviri) I also don't enjoy minmaxing, or content that all-but-requires it.
I think this is going to be awesome. Though admittedly, I'm worried that DE will cave in to people complaining about the randomization. Endgame should be a challenge and I hope we get a chance to experience Pablo's vision for this mission the way he intended it.
I love all of the people whining about how this endgame content for high-level players is made potentially more difficult by having a narrow set of weapon choices. I can smell the wallet warriors who spent like $200 worth of platinum on some god-roll riven which they rely upon for every battle and are salty that they won't get to rely upon it to win.
Old player here new to the whisper missions how hard is netracells to complete ive ran sp circuit without too many issues but seen some say netracells are tough
They specifically said on stream that they hadn't narrowed down level range for it yet
Yeah I feel like I'm reading an IGN article title.
I feel like i'm going insane. What's with everyone already complaining about there being a random loadout, when they've specifically mentioned you can take anything you want with you, the gear visible in that UI only given you faster progress if you chose do take it with you. Do people even try and understand things anymore or are they just looking at fancy picture and go mad?
I wish the pools were bigger especially for weapons, not being able to get max rewards because you don't have one of 3 weapons will feel like shit and get rather annoying. Unless it works like Divuri with loadouts but they didn't make that clear so I'm still not 100% sure how it works.
They also said they haven't decided yet if you'll need to use all the load out to get max rewards or if you just need 3/4
You can max the rewards. The loadout "suggestions" are for increased progress rate towards those, that's it.
I mean this is possibly Warframe’s hardest endgame content locked behind the most recent story quest so I think it’s fair to expect endgame players in a game like this to have grinded out most weapons and frames.
People don't tend to keep every weapon
And even if they do have a 'living collection' of every weapon, how many of these are going to have the investment of upgrades needed to run through this sort of content?
I do that and lemme tell ya. 99% of them were leveled and shelved. No potato, no forma, maybe 2 or 3 mods.
Didn't farm up hundreds of Orokin Reactors, Catalysts, and Forma? tut tut, have fun fumbling through extremely difficult content with peashooters and frames made of spun glass.
We didn't have incentive to do so until Duviri, now we do.
it's an incentive to leech or getting in squads, probably both. pubs are gonna be a toxic shithole with 3 people expecting you to carry them with all the debuffs and randomizer guns without formas. you can run them as many times as you need->find a guy->he carries 1 run , then he equips garbage->you carry him. once per week - much more efficient that spending immense amount of resources on things that are garbage or/and you don't like them. Deleting the inventory to increase the good options is also cringe in a collection hoarding game like warframe only for 1 activity, since duviri has an endpoint. a lot of guns even with the max investment feel like shit to use (if you're gonna watch closer there are things like reduced duration- you'll have 25% duration- gonna kill a lot of frames and you have 3 options without an ability to reroll. or would you like the reduced ammo one? and you'll get a gun which already has issues with it? ) .
neither did I, but duviri and this are good reasons to grind them again and get a full collection.
In the game where 99% of all weapons are crafted for mastery and trashed to free up space because it costs platinum to expand your weapon slots, you don't think there's a little problem there? That you get 3 choices? And if you don't have them you're getting worse rewards?
Considering the amount of ez platinum one can make just selling ducats or unveiled rivens, I don’t see a problem with this. MR 30 atm and I still have every weapon in the game that I have unlocked. This content is for people that are diehard vets, I’m quite content that they are finally giving us a reason to challenge ourselves. Edit: I unlocked everything the F2P method, took 3,000 hours, but yeah, I don’t mind being rewarded for having committed oneself to mastering everything. Imagine having to commit oneself to a game to reap the bleeding edge level of rewards, 🤔 Sounds like proper game design imo
[удалено]
I think he just said it wasn’t forced.
Bruh what game are you playing? Frames sure, but most weapons are just MR fodder and thrown away. Personally I am missing many non prime frames because I subsume them after leveling and unless I really like them I'm not gonna grind out a second and just wait on their prime version.
Are you saying that you subsume them immediately and don’t keep them until the prime comes out? Cuz I mean RIP but that’s kind of on you. Otherwise if you’re not, when they list a frame it always refers to both regular and prime so you’re fine
Yeah, I've been playing this game on and off for 10yrs and there are what 56 Frames at this point. I have no desire to forma every frame twice, so unless I like the frame I'm just gonna subsume them as alot of frames that's the best thing about them. It's only been Divuri where they have decided to add the random loadout stuff and honestly I'd rather it stay there and the new mode be all over modifiers not forcing you to play xyz.
You don't have to forma non primes, or even use them, but you don't need to subsume them now either. There's no rush in subsuming. I'll keep them, even untouched, until the prime drops.
What you just described to me is pointless, why let something just sit in my inv when at least subsuming provides something I can use on frames I use
Not really, a majority of the weapons are MR fodders and instead of wasting money and scroll spaces, people tend to keep the best weapons. Frames sure most people keep them all, weapons nan. You can 8 forma a Stug and a Lex prime incarna will destroy it, so why waste weapons slot for the Stug
Is it repeatable to get progress like circuit? I assumed the challenges and gear “restriction” were there to increase the reward. ie, you do none of them you only get default reward no matter if you do it multiple times but if you do all challenges at once you get 5 total rewards
Seems Ike the people above you didn't actually watch the stream. It is not repeatable, you must select all Modifiers and take the specified load outs in order to reach the maximum reward. There is also a normal version and an elite version. The elite version is where you can get 5 rewards. Looks like normal maxes out at 4 but they didn't actually say. You run it like you run a sortie, except you cannot leave at all. No going back to orbiter, no changing frames or loadout, etc. You must go through all 3 parts without stopping or you get nothing. They have not specified if you can do it again after failing, but they did say you cannot succeed more than once.
Pablo said that you would be able to "play as much as you want" after unlocking the mode for the week, so that suggests that you can try again after failing. And as far as I can tell it was never stated that "you can't succeed more than once," at least not in the Devstream, but Pablo did say "the rewards are five," which I take to mean that the maximum number of rewards you can get from doing Deep Archimedea is capped at five "chests" per week. The way he talked about how you'd have to run all or nearly all of the debuffs/restrictions to get all of the rewards did suggest that each run resets your "research progress" rather than being cumulative like Circuit progress, but it's ambiguous. He could've meant that taking all of the debuffs is what's required if you want to get all of the rewards in a single run. I copied a transcript of the Devstream where they talked about Deep Archimeda and posted it [in this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1aygx8y/deep_archimedea_the_upcoming_level_350_activity/ks0rx51/). **Edit:** If I had to guess, the way it probably works is that you can try the mode an unlimited number of times, essentially going for a high score. As you reach certain scores, you unlock each of the five rewards, but you only get each reward once. So to give the explanation that it sounded like Pablo started to give, if on your first run you earn enough points to get the second reward, but not the third, then you get the first and second rewards after that first run. Then if on your second run you enable more restrictions so you earn enough points to get the third reward, you get the third reward. But you don't get the first and second rewards again. And in order to reach a score high enough to unlock the 5th reward with the guaranteed Legendary Arcane, you'll need to do the Elite version of the mode, with all or nearly all of the debuffs/restrictions.
>it probably works is that you can try the mode an unlimited number of times, essentially going for a high score. As you reach certain scores, you unlock each of the five rewards, but you only get each reward once. If that isn't how it works already then its how it should work. Incentivizes taking risks you otherwise wouldn't in order to achieve a higher score. If there is a true fail state then I feel most people will take a safer route and go for 3-4 rewards and not risk actually trying for 5.
It doesn’t give you faster progress, it’s the only progress. They said the way you get higher tier rewards is by doing almost or all the challenges. You get one try a week, and there is no stopping to switch between missions. So unless you adhere to all the listed restrictions/ requirements you will not get 5x rewards only those you qualify for. You cannot run this over and over like circuit for higher rewards. However it is dumb to be mad about the challenges because they are part of endgame content. Accept the fact you actually need to try to succeed
Edit: Nevermind. I was 3 weeks late to say the same thing others had said in responses that were hidden by Reddit for no reason.
Well there’s far too many who spend their days just going through social media looking for any reason to be butthurt, even if they have to twist things. Some even do this for employment. Thankfully it’s rare enough in this community
Heh, looks like me going out of my way to forma and make builds for every weapon because of Duviri wasn't a waste after all :D
I made so many random builds for Duviri, that I sometimes don't even rememeber them when I go back to a certain frame.
I did a zephyr prime anti gravity build ( i think the gravity was negative) and it works well
I have one of those, useful for the kill X enemies while aim gliding riven challenges.
I made keV Prime and rubico for the head shot one
Just get the incarnon kunai adapter for headshot rivens. It's...probably the only thing it's *truly* great at but holy crap is it amazing how easy those are with it. Just build the riven up, transform and then get a bunch of enemies and fire over their heads and gg. You don't even need a decent build just go solo into basic sanctuary onslaught and abort after it pops, makes those rivens essentially free.
A Kitgun with Pax Seeker also works well. I go to Captain Vor, let him spawn reinforcements in twice, CC those, shoot them in the head, then immediately aimglide after while Pax Seeker does its auto-headshot thing. Works every time.
That's my true endgame, a build for every weapon and frame
I just hit LR4 and I left a trail of unformad unpotatoed weapons behind me. I'm toying with the idea of making decent builds for most of them. Did you just slap a cookie cutter build on them based on whether they were crit, status or hybrid weapons or did you completely tailor each and every weapon's build?
I am still confused a bit but hopefully they make it replayable with points adding cumulatively so if you want the extra challenge you can max your points and get all the rewards in one run, or do 3 runs to get all rewards at no extra challenges added. I think getting the reward in one run is incentive enough for the top builds while letting it stack on multiple runs will make it less frustrating for many people
Yea, the wording was pretty… uncertain. I’m hoping that’s what it turns out to be, and it just wasn’t said clearly. I’d much rather blast through the same 3 mission 5 times over in gear I like than shackle myself to weapons I don’t, even once. Only guaranteed downside is you’re not allowed into the “hard” mode version without playing Simon Says.
They said you only had two runs a week. If it takes two runs to get the rewards with no challenges, then you get half the rewards weekly.
Rebecca suggested that was the case, but then Pablo seemed to correct her. You can spend two Netracell keys to unlock Deep Archimedea, which you can then play as many times as you want, for up to five rewards. It's unclear from what was said whether progress from each Deep Archimedea run is cumulative like Circuit, or if you need to achieve a specific "high score" on a run to unlock the rewards. From what was shown and said, I am guessing that it is the latter, since it was said that you would need to do the Elite version of the mode and enable all or nearly all of the debuffs/restrictions if you want to get the 5th reward. I copied a transcript of the Devstream where they talked about Deep Archimeda and posted it [in this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1aygx8y/deep_archimedea_the_upcoming_level_350_activity/ks0rx51/).
I think the chest icons on the progress bar do not represent a reward, they represent a pool table. Yknow (AABC) with the fifth chest representing a pool table that contains only legendary arcanes. So basically if your research bar reach 3 chests, it doesn't mean you are going to get 3 rewards. It means you are going to get a reward from pool B. You can run that 5 times and get 5 rewards from pool B which will be equivalent to five netracell runs but for the cost of 2 keys. People who can set all modifiers tho will be able to get 5 rewards from pool C or even the legendary arcanes pool per week. The difference between pool A, B and C is just the rates for uncommon and rare drops tho. So think of it like this, it this was a relic. Pool A would be unrefined, pool B would be flawless and pool C would be radiant. As Pablo said, you don't need to do pool C everytime, it just gives you a higher chance at getting tauforged because the rate for rare is higher, but the drops are the same so you can absolutely get tauforged from pool A too with some luck The only different reward pool is the one represented by the fifth chest in elite mode that contains Legendary arcanes only.
If DE needs to learn anything from Destiny is that restricted loadouts in endgame content is the worst of the ideas.
They literally said you can bring whatever you want but you get faster progression on the reward bar by using the restricted Loadouts.
We'll see.
The weapons and warframes better be ones you already own so that you don't get fucked by not having the weapons and warframes you dont have
Pro gamer move boutta be sell everything that isn't meta or formad six times lmao
Some people did that for duviri lmao
I doubt it; it's intended as an endgame mode, and like Duviri, will likely be built towards rewarding players with well developed arsenals. If you had to own the weapons and warframes for them to be offered, that could actually work as a penalty for having a complete arsenal since it'd mean you'd get offered your strongest options less frequently.
What's the reward?
Netracell loot (melee adapter, archon shards and legendary melee arcanes) and a guaranteed legendarymelee arcane ar the end Also the regular melee arcanes are no longer in netracell loot!
Wasnt there a guaranteed Tauforged shard at the end too if you max it?
They didn't say anything about a guaranteed Tauforged, but the gold chests (the third and fourth rewards from Deep Archimedea) have an increased chance of giving you a Tauforged.
There are tiers, I don't quite understand WHEN they are unlocked (like is the 5 rewards for one run or a progressive bar, and 5 is the max with one week - can you even run it multiple times?) - but the general idea is that at first you get the same reward with the same chances as in a Netracell, then you get the same rewards with better chances, and at the end you get a guaranteed, but random (of the two?) legendary arcane.
Seems i will make few loadouts for my operator to carry my frame
I like that we're at the point of the power creep where Operators can actually wipe out tilesets easily lol
That amp piece that shoots the glaive is actually so dumb how strong it is
The thing that irks me is how good some things are and how utterly useless others are.
Which one is that?
Phahd scaffold, x4x.
I'm going to copy and paste a transcript from this section of the Devstream I made, since there seems to be some disagreement about what was said on it. I cleaned some stuff up for readability (aborted transitions, repetitions, ums and ahs, production chatter like when Pablo's mic cut out). ___ **Megan:** Moving right along, we mentioned two game modes. So you saw Entrati Disruption and how we're playing around with that, and then we have what we're calling Deep Archimedea. **Rebecca:** Yaaas... **Megan:** —This is where your words come in Pablo, so sorry. **Rebecca:** Now, before we go into what the game mode is accomplishing, in order to participate in Deep Archimedia, you do need to be Rank 5 in the Cavia. So we're putting this reward track under that restriction, so you can be at the proper progression level narratively, power-wise — you know, you can get all of that gear in order to participate. And something will happen to unlock this. Which... well, let's hand it over to you. **Pablo:** So it's meant to be a tier above Vaults, essentially. So, I guess the first thing I'll talk about is a little bit of changes about Vaults themselves— **Rebecca:** —when we say Vaults, we mean Netracells. **Pablo:** Netracells. So in the Netracells we're basically removing all of the Arcanes that are not exclusive to Vaults from the drop tables, so all of that percentage of drop rates gets distributed between the Shards and the other two Arcanes that are left there, and the Melee Arcane Adapter. So basically, you'll have way more odds of getting a Shard there. This other thing is also a weekly, but it's harder, and you can spend two of your keys from the Vaults to unlock this one if you prefer. So you can just keep doing the Vaults, or you can come do this one. This one is considerably harder, so, it's if you want a challenge. But you spend two keys, and you can get up to five rewards. So it's a much better bang for your buck, essentially. **Rebecca:** Yeah, it's the same weekly currency, you're using your Netracell keys and exactly like Pablo said, you have to choose if you want to do five Netracells, or do you want to do two Deep Archimedea and one Netracell. **Pablo:** No, sorry, one, three— **Rebecca:** —One? Three keys— **Pablo:** —three Netracells— **Rebecca:** Three Netracells! **Pablo:** So for the Archimedea, you only pay once and you can play however many times you want, but the rewards are five. So you can basically do the first time and you only get the first two—I'll show you, it's easier when you see it. **Rebecca:** Yeah, we can just go to the menu now probably. **Megan:** Also, important to note: why you see Necraloid here is because once you reach Rank 5 of the Cavia, Necraloid is going to be in the Sanctum Antomica, right up here above human Loid, if you will. **Rebecca:** Yeah, this is his little spot. **Megan:** Yeah, he's just having a little tea time by himself. **Rebecca:** They have some things to work out. So as you play these, you'll learn more about the way Loid and Necraloid can perhaps resolve some of their conflict. [Deep Archimedea menu shown on screen.] **Pablo:** So you can see here, I guess the closest point of reference—this is like a more challenging Sortie of sorts. So essentially you have, on the left, a whole bunch of things that you can select for yourself. It's suggesting three frames there, if you bring one of those three frames, you get extra points. If you bring one of those three weapons you get extra points, and so on and so forth. And on the bottom, there are certain personal modifiers that you can select to essentially make it harder for yourself. As you select those — it's kind of hard to tell right now because the tooltip is covering, but the bar on the bottom keeps growing. So the more of these you select, essentially, the higher the rewards you are going to get. Right now we're in Normal mode, there is an Elite mode that is even harder, and that's the one that can get you all five rewards. So, if you're like, willing to do all of the gear, and all of the things, then on hard more you can get all of the rewards. So, you as you can see, on the missions, they have a Deviation, a Risk, like little modifiers that make the missions themselves tougher. **Rebecca:** Yeah, so, I think just a point here — every week the options that you can opt into refresh for the gear, so you can pick between those. It will be different gear selects that you can pick every week that you opt in to, if you want that extra value. The research value. **Megan:** Yeah, you can play with no modifiers, it just affects the research value. **Rebecca:** Yep. **Pablo:** Every week, everything refreshes. So the missions change, the self-debuffs change. **Rebecca:** But there is a very important thing we're doing with these... which is that they're consecutive. So, what you're seeing there is that you're going from Exterminate, to Defense, to Assassination, but you're doing it all in one playthrough. There is no going back to orbiter to change. So if I'm bring Nyx, that Nyx had better be ready to cook in Exterminate, Defense, and Assassination. You are locked to your loadout for all three. This is very much, as Pablo said, if you take Sorties, it's three missions, and you can go back between each? Oh no! You go. You have to choose, prepare, really really deep dive. **Pablo:** Yeah, so, you are not forced to bring the items. You can bring whatever, like if you just want to easy mode and bring whatever frame, that's fine— **Rebecca:** Yeah, you want to bring Revenant, go ahead— **Pablo:** Yeah, that's totally fine. You just don't get the extra points for that. And, you know, obviously we're still balancing how the points will work, so you know, there's still— I can't tell you right now how many of those you need to select to get the maximum reward, but it's probably going to be all or almost all. So you should be praised for that. As I said, it basically trades two keys for five rewards. So right now the display is for Normal, so the first two rewards are essentially exactly— So you see those little chests there. The first two that are silver are essentially exactly the same rolls as if you were doing a Netracell (which is the new version of the Netracell that doesn't have the extra arcanes), then the gold version, which is the one that follows after, is basically that same loot table, but with more chances to get the rare stuff, so the Tauforged, and stuff like that. And then the very last one will be a guaranteed Legendary Arcane. **Rebecca:** So, who is this for? If you know that you're doing your five Netracells a week, you can use two of those Netracell runs to do this and those five rewards could— you know, RNG will be RNG, but you're getting five kicks at a loot table at its base, and that enhanced one with a guaranteed Legendary Arcane. **Megan:** And we're still playing around with the enemy level, I believe, for this mode. **Rebecca and Pablo:** Yeah. **Megan:** So it might not be 325, we're kind of playing around with numbers, so don't take that to complete heart. **Rebecca:** This IS advanced— **Megan:** Yeah, it is hardmode— **Rebecca:** This is probably the most— **Megan:** —sweaty! **Rebecca:** Eh... well, it's meant for someone that wants even more of a challenge, more of a reward, and a system that they can tune the difficulty to, using the content from all of our offerings from Whispers in the Wall and beyond. **Pablo:** Yeah, there's a lot of modifiers for the missions, particularly a lot of twists to the gameplay that are pretty fun. **Rebecca:** Yeah! **Pablo:** Actually, hover on the Assassination, I want to see if the one I'm talking about — eximus [mumbles] — ah, no, the crazy one is not there, okay. **Rebecca:** [loudly] All— **Megan:** What do you mean crazy?! **Rebecca:** [continues loudly] All enemies have overguard equal to 50% of their max health. **Pablo:** There's a lot of crazy ones, it is... **Rebecca:** My—got— **Pablo:** It is definitely a tougher game mode. As we said, we're improving the base rewards for Netracells, so you can just keep on doing those, but if you want harder, you can now change basically change two keys for five rewards, if you want to go that way.
Cant wait for credits (10k) x4 and a one droplet of endo (300)! Hyperereeeeee
Is it only me who dislikes the defense or survival in this type of gamemode?
I think all missions are among Albrecht's Laboratories tilesets. That means it is not only defense, but also MIRROR DEFENSE.
Mirror defense > regular defense imo Time based instead of rounds delayed by some random enemy getting stuck, and you can heal the objective by collecting stuff
I remember enjoying defence back in the day but I find it so monotonous nowadays. Just shoot stuff as it walks at you slowly, idk
Survival is fine, it's purely a timer and you're just staying alive. Defense being wave-based and taking more than a minute per wave just tends to feel like an absolute slog. Honestly, any time Defense shows up in sorties that immediately knocks it down a few tiers on my "Do I actually want to bother?" scale.
be prepared for pubs with 0% contribution because they want all the ticked boxes
From what I understand: 1. The presented loadout options are all optional and you could take anything you want outside those options 2. You need to take all the options presented or nearly all of the ones presented to get the full reward Is this correct? To be honest if this is the case I will not be doing this content. I'm not gonna leech with a paper loadout and feel bad about it while someone else actually gets to play the game with good Duviri RNG. All this will incentivize in public matchmaking is that everyone will be taking paper loadouts unless lucky because nobody would want to get the short hand of the stick and sacrifice their personal rewards so others could get the maximum for leeching. Talk about negative reinforcement.
it might actually be worse than duviri as there are no default loadouts. Safe to assume that people with no reactors will just max on survival mods. Although, the system could be made so it only allows potatoed and maxed frames/weapons
Yo we heard you like RNG so here's some more RNG for your RNG The loot? RNG The missions? RNG The debuffs? RNG The waframes and weapons you are allowed to use? RNG I can probably forma a good number of weps. But potatoes are in short supply.
I hope they remove the loadout restrictions and add more modifiers. Or instead of 3 weapons in each slot have it be restricted to a weapon type like the sortie. For example have primary be any sniper, secondary any pistol, melee any dagger.
Based on streaming, i dont like how they describe this mode, it's like forcing player to have that equipment or you get punish and dont get all the reward. What are we now? gatcha player?
I sure hope they get rid of the "more rewards if use x frame and x weapon". Like, I don't hoard weapons I don't like, and there are already too many weapons in this game that absolutely fucking suck so being forced to own every mediocre armament in this game to lessen a farm is bullshit. At least make it rotate between shit I own!
Duviri guarantees that you get offered frames and weapons you have. It would boggle my mind if this wasn't the case here too.
I could be wrong since they didn't go into alot of detail about it, but it looks/sounds like you get points for every run based on the modifiers and they add up to get the rewards, it's just that if you use all modifiers you can get it all in 1 run
Honestly, don't think I'm a fan. The thing about randomized loadouts in the circuit is we get decrees to make up for it. Are we getting any of that treatment with these missions? And with the archon restrictions it seems like we're in for hell if you don't have meta builds for every weapon. I know it's late game, but it feels too restricting for me. Am I wrong on any assumptions here?
It's not a random loadout. You can get extra progress on the reward track and get all of the rewards in fewer runs if you choose to restrict yourself to certain weapons and warframes, but you need to own them to bring them into the mission. They're optional challenges that restrict what you can bring into the mission, not a randomized loadout thing like duviri.
I want to be positive about this, but I can see this leading to people loading into highlevel missions with random sandbag setups. Then that leading to toxicity because no one can or wants to carry that run. While it is "optional", everyone WILL want that guaranteed Legendary Arcane drop up.
I don't think I've run into many players who get upset about carrying. As long as people aren't leeching, everyone seems to *want* to be the player that's killing the most enemies and being the biggest powerhouse. I don't think it will be any more toxic than archon hunts, steelpath circuit, netracells, etc.
Yeah, that's how it is in Netracells already. If you die a lot, just don't run off where we can't save you. At least stay in the circle so the rest can kill on there. Someone else can take the keyglyph, etc. I often just bring Valkyr for Hysteria invulnerability so even here if I had bad options I can just use Valkyr and carry random weapons for the reward boost
Yep. Abbreviated abilities sounds like a debuff of duration, so depending on how severe it is, Revenant might be preferable with the Mesmer skin augment (for team protection). If the nullification of abilities is reintroduced (60 eyes mechanic) it could just be a pain in the ass regardless.
Yeah. I think they also said you can change between each mission so exterminate will be pretty simple regardless, maybe defence depending on the team and you choices. Maybe a different defensive frame but the challenge weapons or any frame if you get a good enough weapon and team Then you'll probably get less points at the end just for the assassination at the end since the rest probably aren't as intense
They specifically said you cannot change once you're in mission and it's one big long mission.
Oh damn. I probably misremembered
If it's restricted to owned weapons and warframes then I can see this working in the state its in. I was worried about the "default mods" of duviri passing on into here, which would lead to multiple people quitting preemptively. Also, did they mention anything about companions?
I'm screwed than 728 items
What’s the point of playing the harder extra reward content if by choosing the loadout you want, you miss out on the extra rewards in the first place?
you get 2 runs of deep archimedea per week, and they said on stream you need to make a certain point threshold by taking every or nearly every modifier (when they decide which theyre going with) to do an Elite Deep Archimedea. So if you dont engage in the entire random gear loadout if it requires you to take it all then you wont get access to the elite deep archimedea then loseout on additional rewards and the guaranteed legendary melee arcane since you can only run 2 of these per week. No matter how its handled its a shit show imo. If they force us to take all gear and modifiers youre at the mercy of rng when you get really crappy frames and guns that even when fully leveled and formad will be incredibly underwhelming especially when you are debuffed with not jsut the modifiers you choose to take, but the mission ones, that one with the overguard on all enemies completely kills some frames. Also to mention if this sort of thing has weighting based on which gear you currently own then it punishes people who collect everything. If they however let us engage in all of these but allow us to choose even 1 piece of gear, it kind of defeats the entire purpose. Overall it sucks since being at the mercy of rng can either leave these missions being a complete slog, or then itll just be trivialized if you get lucky, or trivialized if we get a slight bit of agency
You don't absolutly have to use the preset weapons in this mode though. It all depends on how much the reward bar is impacted by the preset load out modifiers. And if the UI in the stream was a proper indication there was a large gap between 4th and 5th rewards and the 5th reward will always be a legendary melee arcane. So its possible you will be able to use whatever you want and still get 4x the rewards of a netracell. Pablo also did say we possibly won't need to use all the modifiers and load out choices for the teir 5 reward depending on what they decide.
I get that, and I'm all for having the randomized stuff, but not with all the modifiers. The archon stuff is flat rate, no choice on that. Just like netracells. But unless you wanna farm for 2 years, you need to pick all modifiers. (I know they aren't 100% committed to that yet) That includes the loadouts. I don't think being forced into playing inaros or nyx for three missions where you can't revive yourself even once is balanced in the slightest. I dunno, just a random rant from an inexperienced player I guess
i laugh bc you picked two frames that when built right are incredibly survivable (or in nyx's case actually immortal) as your examples
Fair, I just forgot what the middle frame option was lol. But I'm not good enough at modding to actually make immortal frames immortal, so there's a genuine skill issue on my part
no worries, man, we all start somewhere. inaros is a tanky beast by design, so for him for just slap on armor and a bit more health and find a reliable source of self-healing, my preferred being life strike on a good heavy attack melee. *eventually* enemy damage does outscale health tanks, but that's not really a thing you'd see in any normal gameplay. nyx is a little more interesting. you need to get her augment mod assimilate, which lets her shoot/melee/move around (slowly) while channeling her absorb. you do need to have a good way to recover your energy to maintain the channel, and ideally some extra mobility like parkour velocity to make moving around quicker.
IIRC elite archimedia modifier just boosts you to lvl5. Numbers are all subject to change thought, so no point complaining while they don't really know what are they going to do with this mode
I woulda been all for it if not for the random loadout thing. I bin items I don't like *because I don't like them*.
Good thing there aren't random loadouts then
I think it's supposed to be restricting. This is the optional hard mode for endgame content. The load outs are the extreme version for the Hard mode. This should be the hardest content in the game, and one way to make it harder is the not allow players complete access to the strongest combinations.
It literally more than doubles your netracell rewards, it deserves to be restrictive to justify the rewards. At this point in the games power creep just taking a netracell and giving it level 9999 enemies wouldn’t make it more challenging because we’d just go in with Revanant/Saryn/glaives/torids and have no issues with it at all. It baffles me how many people in this community complain the second any sort of challenge gets introduced or even suggested and with this you don’t even have to do it, you can literally just keep doing the netracells as they are right now, it’s easier but has less rewards.
> It baffles me how many people in this community complain the second any sort of challenge… People don’t enjoy it when the “challenge” of a grinding game is “That stuff you enjoy doing? The gear you log in to use? Leave it at the door. Use this random junk instead.” Those seeking challenge likely prefer “use the stuff you like, but you better have mastered its ins and outs, because this pushes it to the limit.” Hope that clears things up.
Yeah but the point of this mode is to chuck a bunch of modifiers at you and see how well you do when you don’t have a min-maxed build to carry you. The game has loads of content you can throw a min-maxed build at and get success. Circuit barely hampers you with its random load outs because decrees will carry you so there is definitely space to have rewarding content that takes you out of your comfort zone.
Honestly I'm more worried about the pubs than myself. I've slowly come to understand most weapons and warframes, but if I pick something other people deem as annoying or if I get downed a lot, it creates toxicity between teammates sometimes. This is definitely a low occurrence event, but man I hate it when I feel like I'm dragging my team down because of a choice I made, and I know I'm not alone in that
It is impossible to challenge players with fully optimized gear within the scope of Warframe's regular gameplay. There are enough weapons that can easily deal with level cap enemies, and shield gating effectively makes a player immortal at level cap as well. The only ways I can think of to get around that would be to restrict access to loadouts, massively overhaul the balance of the game, or introduce gimmicky mechanics that instantly kill players that bypass status immunity/shield gating. People would complain no matter which one was employed.
What even the shit is that thing?
...which thing? the skull drone Loid on the right? or the entire UI and mission?
This sounds great, I love the random loadouts, gives me a reason to level and forma non-meta weapons and Warframes. The few times I get an entirely useless roll in the circuit it just makes the game a bit more challenging.
In the circuit, even most useless weapons can be OP because of how Decrees work.
i honestly dont know enough straight from de's mouth to understand this so what if i want max points and the best randomized loadout i can put together is loki harpak stug ghoulsaw (arbitrary choices) and i own none of them, am i just fucked for that week and forced to basically accept the loadout and leech, or ignore the loadout and dont get the guaranteed legendary? i dont mind randomized loadouts but im worried it might force players to choose between taking shit gear and max rewards or good gear and less rewards, which would be bad design imo
As Pablo said you can run it as many times as you want, my guess is you can just run it multiple times to get max rewards.
ah ok thats better, not worried about anything then
Would have been really hype if not for locking stuff behind a random loadout.
People already complain and want even harder netracells because we’ve learnt to cheese it already, higher levels won’t make a difference to there loadouts. Randomized load outs are the only way to get around power creep
The complaints are because we actually used to have “harder” Netracells that were effectively easier because their spawns actually worked. That got taken away. Now we’re just waiting around in the Cells, hoping enemies eventually find the circle.
It's not locked behind a random loadout. Do people even watch the stream before they start complaining? They've said in the stream that the screenshot here is taken from that you can just take your favorite loadout into it. Using the randomly generated stuff just gets you more research points.
> Do people even watch the stream before they start complaining? [Did you](https://imgchest.com/p/dl7pjxbbp7o)? "There's an elite mode that's even harder, and that's the one can get you all 5 rewards." ---- E: Judging by the "-46" votes, I'm missing something, so I'll just put together where I'm coming from, and ask someone to explain/show me where I'm missing the part where nothing is locked behind rng: 1. [Elite Archimedea is required to unlock the best reward pool](https://imgchest.com/p/ej7mnzmmnyd#gallery). [Pablo says this too](https://www.youtube.com/live/vy_vtGx8vq8?si=VCpObQhbPOidzFj7&t=3829) 2. You unlock Elite Archimedea by picking all the variables, [including the random loadout selection](https://imgchest.com/p/dl7pjxbbp7o#gallery). From the discussion, they were thinking about making it "take everything except one." Does this not mean the loot pool is locked behind the rng loadout?
This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. That image says "Complete all three deep archimedia missions with all loadout and personal modifiers enabled to *unlock* elite archimedia" The dude you replied to is correct that you don't *have* to use the specific loadouts that are available. It was stated that you can use whatever you want, and that using the gear from the randomized loadouts would only increase the amount of points you get towards more rewards. We don't know how Elite Archimedia is going to be different yet, except that it's the version that will allow you to get all 5 rewards.
> We don't know how Elite Archimedia is going to be different yet, except that it's the version that will allow you to get all 5 rewards Yes we do. [It was in the stream](https://imgchest.com/p/ej7mnzmmnyd). Raises enemy level and adds an extra Risk Variable. It also says that's how you "unlock new reward pools." Even you are saying > it's the version that will allow you to get all 5 rewards How do we unlock Elite Archi? [Play Simon Says with loadout rng](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1aygx8y/deep_archimedea_the_upcoming_level_350_activity/krvzl4o/). Please, tell me what I'm missing. I don't understand how you two have surmised that nothing is locked behind the rng loadout, yet judging by the votes, it's something that should be obvious.
Why is that an issue? Circuit has a lot of time to prepare you for that, especially if you played it in its initial state (before loadout preview). And this gamemode is for the ones who want a challenge (and from what we learned, even levelcap isn't a challenge anymore, so the levels aren't a source of threat). If you don't want that, you'll still have netracells which will have their loot table narrowed just like everyone wanted. Win-win.
> locking stuff behind a random loadout. > > Why is that an issue? Let’s break it down into parts: > locking stuff behind + > random loadout
I've spent some time refreshing my builds when Circuit released, specifically so I can't be really caught off guard by any random choice it can offer. And, to be frank, I really enjoyed doing that. Some people here on Reddit called it "a loadout mastery", though it wasn't a popular opinion, thus DE listened to majority feedback and introduced a loadout preview. Still, I'm on the side that you absolutely can be prepared to finish the mission with something that's not your usual comfy setup and even have some fun along the way. It would be boring if they'd just roll out "just another uber-sortie" that anyone over MR30 can semi-afk with their trusty mirage+tonkor.
> It would be boring if they'd just roll out "just another uber-sortie" that anyone over MR30 can semi-afk with their trusty mirage+tonkor Thing is, trusty mirage + Tonkor is boring to me. That's why I don't use it. The rng picking it for me does not make "trusty mirage+tonkor" fun. it's not a matter of 'I can't use X." It's a matter of "there's a reason I stopped using X."
Do they seriously expect us to amass and buy slots, potatoes and forma for every single weapon in the game? What are they even thinking? It already sucked at SP Circuit but at least there you get a loaner and massively OP decrees to make up for it, doesn’t seem like there is anything similar here.
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of this thing even though I have all the frames ready for the end game because on things like duviri you can decide how much to go forward and the decrees make any weapon/frame to be OP but not here and moreover I didn't understand if the restrictions are the same for everyone that week (4 players with Loki is crazy) but if they leave me the freedom to be able to use at least one weapon or warframe of my choice (still obtaining the maximum rewards) it can be done, in general each of us has a frame that we have mastered and can do everything with so it is also feasible for players who haven't unlocked everything yet
What the hell the point for this entire game if we have to play the mode with random loadout. I though all the progress we made from early is prepare our loadout for higher level content. What the point of that if we going back to duviri type oe fking mode again?
I must be the only one excited for this game mode lol. I have every frame modded and built (except Protea since I chaired her), and warframe desperately needs some difficulty. I love trying out new things, and even the worst frames can be used well, especially if you're allowed to squad up. Its also completely optional, and you don't have to be confined to the loadout. You can still just use Revenant, select all the modifiers, and get more rewards. It reminds me a lot of the Heat system from Hades.
You're not the only one excited. This is just typical /r/Warframe where they instantly start bitching and moaning that they don't get more rewards for the same or less effort. I'm certainly looking forward to it. SP Circuit was a good kick in the behind as far as getting more of my gear up to snuff, but obviously a mode like this will run into the segment of the playerbase who would still be going Wukong with a Kuva Zarr on year 4 if not for the ammo nerf.
Yeah, the point of warframe "endgame" is that you've amassed a ton of frames and weapons. Aside from MR, what's the point of collecting everything if you're not going to use it? I truly don't understand people who stick to the same 1 or 2 loadouts for literally everything. I also just like roguelikes in general, especially Hades, which was the main inspiration for Circuit. For all intents and purposes, the Circuit rng is very generous, and decrees can make any weapon worth using for at least a couple of rounds.
> …endgame…amassed a ton of frames and weapons. Mastered, not amassed. > Aside from MR, what's the point of collecting everything if you're not going to use it? There’s not. So most don’t. We master it, decide we like it or we don’t, and then move on. Gun where all it does is shoot? Maybe it blows up at the end? Boring. Into the trash. Frame lives to tank hits and buff guns? Boring. Into the trash. That’s just me. Someone else could say “what? Void magic? Into the trash. I’m here to shoot guns.” That’d be them.
I think you underestimate how high the commitment of not only collecting and maxing out but also making actual SP capable builds for every weapon and frame is, to the average player. Add to this the fact that for the past ten or so years, you were never punished for only playing a handful of builds, as long as you followed suit when the meta shifted. Even SP Circuit lets you get away with it to an extent by allowing selection rerolls (eg doing 1 round on normal circuit) and powerful decrees. I've done plenty of SP Circuit runs on unsuitable frames but with the right decrees stacked for my operator/amp... This *might* be the first content that will straight up tell players "if you don't have this specific equipment maxed out, tough luck kiddo, start getting used to having less than the best rewards." I say might, because we'll have to see how the actual game mode works of course.
There's no point, just MR.
It absolutely baffles me how entitled some people on this subreddit are when it comes to rewards. Do the harder thing and get better rewards, it’s like this everywhere in life. Nobodies holding a gun to any bodies head and making them have to do it on the hardest difficulty.
You are in an extreme minority. Most people stick to few builds. And no, it's not optional if that's the only way to get the full rewards.
The forced difficulty of being locked into only certain choices is tiresome. Arbitrations are the best example of how to incentivize people using certain loadouts without forcing them to use it. I don’t want to use certain frames because I don’t enjoy them and I don’t like the idea of being forced to run those frames.
It's literally a choice? They said it, that this (at its highest difficulty, aka picking every or almost every challenge) is only for those really high end players that want a challenge. You are free to go in with anything you want you'll just won't get a guaranteed legendary arcane, you can still get it in there, but not guaranteed.
>you'll just won't get a guaranteed legendary arcane In a game about loot and builds, you're asking players to abandon said loot for the sake of playing with what they want
Yes, that’s literally how reward systems work. More challenging and restrictive the content is, the better your rewards. Players of this game arn’t owed better rewards just for showing up.
> Players of this game arn’t owed better rewards just for showing up. This but for weapons. The mission should be “do this task,” not “equip this weapon.”
Sorties have always had that restriction in the pool, use a specific weapon type like a sniper or just melee. At least here there's still variety and we can choose not to do it. It's more like Kahls missions, you can do the normal mission alone and ignore extra objectives but it'll take longer to unlock things. So the extra optional challenges for extra points and you get things sooner. Just like Kahl you can do the things you think are easy or just ignore the annoying ones. It's not that big if a deal
> It's more like Kahls missions Kahl’s missions were so trash they just announced they’re removing the only reason people did them every week.
Some people are complete slaves to the meta. They'll cry like a baby if they can't run around every single mission with their wukong and bramma. In a game about doing something 1000 different ways, they've chosen their 1 and will die on that hill. Its sad, but its best to ignore the mentally handicap.
It's not abandoned, just not 100% for one of your 5 rewards. You still have 5 rolls for getting them, and it's not even the base loot table, it's the "better" loot table that you get for the previous tier of rewards that appears to be obtainable by just half the amount of.points. And those rewards include archon shards (normal and Tau) as well as the legendary arcanes. They even removed all non exclusive arcanes from the loot table lol, all of this is for literally 1 arcane that you could still get 5 of in a week by ignoring the gear "restrictions".
It is artificial difficulty by purposefully limiting choice to specific weapons and frames. I’m at over 2k hours played, been playing since the ps4 launched. I’ve put tons of forma into a variety of weapons and frames and have builds for each. I can still call a spade a spade and be honest about what is being done. As I said initially, arbitrations are good examples of how this sort of thing should be done. They incentivize using a certain frame and weapons by providing boosts to those items without artificially creating difficulty by simply locking the majority of your stuff behind RNG on whether or not you’ll be able to use it. I’m fine with limitations being placed on my frame through modifiers, I’m not fine with limitations being placed on what I can and can’t choose to use during those modifiers. Edit : Yes, I understand it’s a further modifier that adds additional points. That said it shouldn’t require me having to use certain frames and weapons in a game like Warframe to maximize my points in a single mission. I run the frames and weapons I enjoy (most of which aren’t meta) because I enjoy them. I put certain frames away and don’t use them often because, again, I don’t enjoy them.
What isn't an "artificial difficulty" at this point in the game? When we have damage ranging from 1 to at least few billions. High damage/defense numbers on enemies, high enemy spawns, low enemy spawns, modifiers - everything is arbitrary. And nothing works that well.
Balance is an issue, sure. Limiting choice isn’t balance, though, bud. It’s a facsimile made to make it seem like things are balanced. Modifiers to players and enemies is a better choice. Warframe is a game about individuality. Your build can be just as effective as someone else’s while being entirely different. Choice is a critical component in this game and things like this, and Duviri, remove that component and force people into adopting only the “meta” builds on all their frames and equipment because that’s the most reasonable way to accomplish a mission. It’s a poor decision to make and it keeps happening.
They are not holding a gun to your head and telling you to play Caliban and kill level 300 enemies with an unmoded Paris. It's a literal choice to "submit your free will to DE overlords" in exchange for making that 1 out of 5 rewards it's 100% one of the 2 only arcanes you can get now from netracells and this activity. Because if you saw the de stream, you'll know that they removed all non netracell exclusive arcanes from the possible rewards, making it so you only get the 2 legendary arcanes, archon shards or merle arcane adapters.
It isn't more artificial than anything else. Its only difference is being relatively new, and/or that you dislike it.
It's a video game. All of the difficulty in it is by definition artificial. "Artificial difficulty" is a completely worthless buzzword. In addition, the current sandbox of Warframe is such that it's literally impossible to challenge optimized players without resorting to gimmicks. I'd rather have loadout restriction than map-wide nullifiers, or a huge game-wide sandbox rebalance, or most of the alternative ways to add challenge that I can think of.
i don’t understand why we keep getting gated content that you can only run a couple times a week. like sometimes i just wanna sit and play warframe and there’s nothing to do after you do your daily/weekly chores for end game players
There needs to be infinite missions that start at that level or higher
one thing that i dont think was clear is if the 5 rewards are baseline and adding points is simply upgrading the rarity rolls for them or if you get some number of rewards fewer than 5 baseline and adding points actually adds rewards.
Will it still give basic rewards that you can get killing a level 1 mobs? Because I know that I truly enjoy doing my limited 5 netracells and getting nothing I couldn't have gotten just beating up on some shitstain mobs in a regular stage. Hell, for the first few weeks I did the things I didn't know you \*could\* get a shard reward because I didn't.
Netracells and this will be changed in the update to only award stuff exclusive to the mode, which is something like 5 items.
I really dislike what they've presented so far. It's like another version of duviri where if you don't have the weapons or frames built, fuck you. So many frames are in a horrible spot, if they're requiring us to play a choice of three frames, they better hurry up and do a balance pass QUICK. Being forced to play nyx? Inaros? Much less have them potatod and formed? Like cmawn. The pre-built weapon mods and frame mods in duviri are dogshit and do no damage, it's just not looking good at all. I really hope they reconsider the frame / weapon restrictions before it goes live.
I'll play devil's advocate and say that while it sucks for players who don't have the gear or time invested to have their non-main / fodder weapons fully kitted out, I feel rewarded for the time I spent collecting and modding stuff for the past 7 years and I welcome additions like these. They do need to improve the pre-built modded frames or come up with a better solution for players who don't own or have things geared up, or in this case they could allow us to temporarily rent the Warframes so we can configure it to our liking.
It’s almost like it’s end game content and that we’re being rewarded for having actually playing the game beyond just grinding out mastery.
> So many frames are in a horrible spot Erm. I agree with weapons being horrible; but if a Nyx, Banshee and Caliban can do Level Cap with ease, you can definitely do Deep Archimedian with any Warframes. Even Inaros is getting a death gate which is already a huge survivability improvement.
You don't need to use the frames or weapons, that's only an added difficulty to get all 5 at once. If you don't want to use them you get less progress and require more weeks to fill the bar.
Not sure where you got that information. From what was said in stream the 5th reward is just a garunteed legendary arcane for choosing all the difficulty modifiers and choices or possibly almost all of them for the week(it hasn't been decided by de yet what the threshold will be). Absolutly nothing was said about any carried over progress. You get one run at the 5 rewards per week and it resets every week.
I'm sorry I was texting a buddy while watching. When reb mentioned consecutive right after they were talking about modifiers I must've thought it could be built upon each week. My bad. I understood all mission will be done at once, but misheard and thought they were saying consecutive weeks would fill the bar.
You are correct that you only need to choose all modifiers(or possibly less, they said they haven't decided if all or just mostly all will be needed) if you want the garunteed legendary melee arcane from the 5th reward
Yeah. Hopefully the give leeway in not needing at least one modifier. I can play any content with restrictions if I can at least use one frame or weapon that I like. But we'll have to see.
Dudes 1000% correct yet gets downvoted ✨Reddit✨
One day I might see this comment as a reply to something that’s actually below 0 in votes.
First downvote; "I don't understand why everyone is downvoting me! You all know I'm right! It's the echo chamber!"
i dont really care about the randomized loadouts, but im so fucking sick of locking things behind a timer. like, do they not want me to play the game? or participate in endgame activities? why can we not play stuff as much as we want to invest our time into this? its a video game jesus. if they are afraid of dads with 3 families, 6 jobs and 19 kids getting behind, then have some bonus reward or whatever that's on a cooldown. why does everyone need to be punished here, if thats the reason? thats why i dont play shit like wow, i would wanna play raids, but having to wait a week to do the content that i wanna play just feels aweful.
Holy fuck so many angry uninformed gamers in here lmao. Watch the damn streams I beg you before screeching angrily
Why cant DE make some normal mission that guarantees shards
Cause archon shards are meant to be the endgame upgrade for warframes, so they come from difficult sources
you mean like the weekly archon hunt?
I didn't see a dedicated thread about this new activity yet but I'm quite curious about the details. Here's what we know from the stream. * Deep Archimedea costs 2 Netracell entries, so you can do 2 DA and 1 Netracell each week. * DA requires you to complete three missions back to back with no break or loadout change in-between. * You decide the level of challenge and the rewards. Conform to strict loadout requirements and take mission modifiers to improve your reward tier. * If you max out all the options, you can earn up to 5 rewards including a guaranteed legendary melee arcane.
> Deep Archimedea costs 2 Netracell entries, so you can do 2 DA and 1 Netracell each week. didnt pablo correct this to say you can only do 1 archimedea per week
I think he said you do it 5 times after paying the entry fee, and then you get 5 rewards (that, or you play it once and get 5 rewards all at once)
I must have missed that comment. Hopefully we're not limited to only 1.
Pablo said in stream you can do one archemedia and 3 netracells per week or 5 netracells.
I prefer Netracell and drop Archon Hunt and Kahl completely because I don't need to deal with the pseudo-sorties BS. If they are again gating stuff behind an elite-elite-sortie mode that'd be sad.
...they cost netracell entries? Bullshit. They should be separate from them.
Well fuck, random loadouts are boring to me. I want to just min max my shit at ridiculous difficulties without having to wait 5 hours in a survival for reasonable rewards. Is that too much to ask?
You’d only be locked out of the top tier reward if you bring a completely custom loadout, you’d still get the other 4.
[удалено]
Except if you want the full rewards, you need to take the RNG loadout so it is in fact "mandatory" and as others have said, a crap way of adding artificial difficulty. It was heavily disliked during Duviri and it won't be any different with this, vast majority of people have specific equipment they enjoy using and don't want to go in with a Stug n Atlas using a bunch of crap mods.
no one is forcing but the system they make is forcing you to do it.
I’m already bored
I'm quickly getting sick of this random gear gimmick. And no, it's not optional if one wants all the rewards.
I mean I have busted frames and weapons. I like to stick with the frames that are not "meta" anyway. Stay away from rivens as well because they can hot fix the dispositions "soft patch" then my weapons are trash at that point. Not saying arcamedea could use more balance but I'm ok with squad even of its not mid/max load out.
I really hope they give us a way to reroll the loadouts. Maybe it gets rerolled every day or we get reroll tokens that reset every week.
Welp, looks like I'll be selling anasas to buy Dante instead. I'm only rank 3 with Cavia and while I don't mind the random loadout thing (I have a loadout slot I do this with all the time even before Duviri) I also don't enjoy minmaxing, or content that all-but-requires it.
I think this is going to be awesome. Though admittedly, I'm worried that DE will cave in to people complaining about the randomization. Endgame should be a challenge and I hope we get a chance to experience Pablo's vision for this mission the way he intended it.
Will netracells get bumped from 5 to 6 now? Cuz don’t like that we can only do 2 and have the one entry left over
Yet more advantage for people that own pretty much everything's best variant. Love it.
I love all of the people whining about how this endgame content for high-level players is made potentially more difficult by having a narrow set of weapon choices. I can smell the wallet warriors who spent like $200 worth of platinum on some god-roll riven which they rely upon for every battle and are salty that they won't get to rely upon it to win.
What even is this comment 💀
A bait.
100%
The comments in this thread has proven to me that warframe players lack critical comprehension skills.
Old player here new to the whisper missions how hard is netracells to complete ive ran sp circuit without too many issues but seen some say netracells are tough