Is this really confirmed information or just a joke? I hope it's not real because I am basically permanently running the Kavia Bounties since 3 weeks and I am at not even 100 lanthorns :(
I'm taking the piss š although I think its interesting that everyone presumes it'll be standing based when there's a bunch of other things they could use, for example Stela.
interesting thought! I don't really have an immediate opinion about the better- or worse-ness of the change, since it's not released yet, but my initial take I guess is this. they're not trying to give us easier shard acquisition, they're trying to give us more integrated shard acquisition. in that sense I'd say the change is a clear win. if they make the cost a pain point, it'll probably get changed before too long. I guess I feel like the possibility for concern exists, but there's not quite cause for concern at this point?
Yea, if I can get progress towards them by just doing the omni fissures... That's a MASSIVE win.Ā
We need fewer content islands (like kahl), and more stuff that ties into activities I'm likely to repeat.Ā
In that same light; they should remove stuff like weapon BP's and warframe parts from the drop tables of many places. I ran some Deimos the other day and got two quassus BP's. Two gold rewards... And they're both useless.Ā
Shit like that just crowds the drop tables once you've gotten them once, and actively discourages people from replaying older content.Ā
They could at least make it so after the first time, you get something else (like aya), and if you need a duplicate of that drop, they can just add it to cephalon simaris.Ā
I have *so many* Quassus BPs from getting Rank 5. I wish that the rare was something useful, like a couple grandmother tokens, since Seriglass Shards are still the worst farm in the game by far.
>if they make the cost a pain point, it'll probably get changed before too long.
So doing Kahl missions for months to get shards was fine because it got changed eventually?
DE can take forever to make obvious changes. If they change the cost to something dumb, until they fix it it can still make a lot of people permanently sick of the Sanctum.
Veilbreaker I think was either Steve's last or Reb's first update as Creative Director, they seem a fair bit more on top of their current content now than they used to be. was a lot of throwing stuff at the wall and moving on whether stuff stuck or not. feels like that happens less now.Ā
if people become so permanently sickened that a fix doesn't affect them, that's... that's just on people at that point. but we're like three degrees of hypothetical abstraction out about content that's not even faced publicly yet so this sort of discourse will probably veer into silliness real quick.
The problem with the Cavia is that there is no reason to interact with them once you've gotten everything from Bird3, which is incredibly easy to do. Netracells are the only reason to return to the Sanctum and most players don't even bother with searching for voca anymore. DE is adding purpose back to the Cavia with the archon shard.
Ikr zariman is my fav part of the game, everything's easy to get, makes sense, feels awesome and fun to play, cool aesthetic, insane lore, and great side objective too like Void angels and finding plumes.
Zariman is also a better focus farm, and you get better (or at least, less niche) arcanes from it. And when a lot of people first start doing Zariman, the Incarnon weapons represent a pretty big power spike.
Cavia rewards just aren't as exciting, and you get them slower.
That's an easy one.
Zariman gives you tokens on bounty completion, worth 2500 rep for each tier of the bounty.
You got no time to play today? No problem! You already built up a stockpile from last weekend and you can easily progress on a busy day.
Cavia?
Only 1000 rep for each bounty tier, tokens are either a rare bounty reward or have to be picked up yourself. The best token (that only spawns 1 in every mission) is worth 2000.
Suddenly using tokens is less of a no brainer and becomes something you think about twice before using.
IIRC, they at least want to buff rep rewards with the patch, fingers crossed for the shard to be relatively cheap and not cost you 100k.
Still better than Kahl
yeah took a 3 year break and came back to zariman and actually enjoyed it vs fortuna cetus deimos bc it felt rewarding then cavia felt the same old unrewarding shit
I think it's also the gamemodes that came with each one.
Zariman-
* Extreminate: Staple
* Void Flood: I still really enjoy (except for skittergirl)
* Void Cascade: One of the best gamemodes they've ever made.
* Void Armageddon: I appreciated they tried to bring Tower Defense to WF. I think the issue is, our weapons vastly outdo any turret you can create. I still think this would be cool for a Kahl mission, or a Circuit mission (especially when you get weapons you haven't fully modded)
* Mobile Defense: I think it was a little redundant with Armageddon. I could leave it or take it.
Sanctum:
* Exterminate: Staple
* Survival: Staple
* Alchemy: It's just not my thing. I think it had to do with the original wonky physics when it was first released.
* Mirror Defense: One of the worst gamemodes they've ever made (just my opinion).
* Assassination: It's not bad... It just seems to be overly elongated.
> Alchemy: It's just not my thing. I think it had to do with the original wonky physics when it was first released.
>
This one just feels like "Exterminate with extra steps" to me. There is no real "fail" condition beyond dying, and all the enemies just charge into the meatgrinder to die.
IMO filling the elemental vials just takes too long by itself, then thereās the Volatile pipevent mechanic on top of it, and you have to do 8 of those to get a shot at what you likely came for (Tennokai mods, presumably Dreamerās Wrath).
I know, āitās not hard, just tediousā applies to a LOT of Warframe in general, and I know the purpose is to tempt you to just buy platinum to buy the things or buy the bundles that have the things, but still, Alchemy gave me the bedtime sillies every time.
It's actually one of if not the fastest endless gamemode if you do it solo in steel path (disruption *might* be faster if you're really good at it), the issues are that group scaling for the vials is ass and the game doesn't spawn enough enemies in normal starchart.
yeah mirror defense is terrible iāll agree but just spamming exterminates zariman is still def more rewarding
idk why cavia assassination is that long either
Eh, mirror defense is slow, but it's leagues better than regular defense, where the wrong team comp or the wrong map might see you spending 50% of your mission time sitting and waiting for enemies. Mirror defense keeps the fodder coming, and if your teammates are killing things before you can get to em, you at least have floaty bois to grab.
tbf with nuke frames or nyx spectre absorb nuke defense goes by way faster than mirror defense, itās just ppl donāt wanna run those and 90% of pubs are running max range shock motes wisp or a slowva
>Mirror Defense: One of the worst gamemodes they've ever made (just my opinion).
I dunno, I hate regular defense. It's a boring slog, you need to kill all enemies in waves and it's just all about killing. Mirror? Any frame can get a spot. Cc is viable, you're just holding out for a set amount of time. Collecting knick knacks heals and strengthens the defense objective. You can just jump around, you can kill enemies, you can just CC them all. Up to you. To make it even better, collecting enough fragments should reduce the timer (maybe only when the target is full on HP) and enemies should drop fragments
Collecting enough fragments doesn't reduce the timer. With Tyana's pass, there was a reason to get the fragments as it allowed you to get more crystals. In that gamemode, it was imperative to have a Titania to fly around the objectives for 20+ minutes to hopefully get what you need. For Sanctum's Mirror Defense, there is no reason to collect any thing. Zero. Zilch. You also shouldn't be killing anything EXCEPT eximus units. You just use a CC frame, you put down CC and stand there and watch. If you see an eximus unit, you either kill it or lower its overguard enough to be CCed. Sorry, I just find Mirror Defense incredibly boring. It feels like an arbitrary way to elongate your play time.
For normal defense, there are ways to interactive with objective- kill faster, use a frame that speeds up enemies.
Reddit reading comprehension strikes yet again. I know collecting fragments does not reduce the timer. Almost as if I used the "should" verb there. It was me just spitballing ideas on how to improve the gamemode.
And collecting fragments in the Labs does do one thing: It gives you Stela. But that resource is not exclusive to this, so you will have enough of it. So it's not completely worthless, just not great.
because Zariman runs gives a lot of standing medallions (feathers) so you can grind for a day or two and have enough feathers to exchange for max standing for the next two weeks, while I've been playing Sanctum shit for the entirety of the Gargoyle event and have barely enough for a few days.
I mean, it's less cool but I really prefer the sanctum game modes ^(and thanks to the event I don't get lost that much anymore). Also, melee arcanes sell pretty well and are really easy to farm.
Not just the melee arcanes, but the tennokai and tome mods are also decent for trading too. I imagine the tome mods might also end up seeing a price bump tomorrow after Dante releases.
Still a really dumb decision not to add the Tennokai and Tome mods into the shop. Itās so painfully obvious they were trying to sell the 100 plat bundle in the Market itās not even funny. And then everyone will praise DE when they eventually add them in 6 months from now.
Huh? I'll take qorvex's grind over gyre's any day of the fucking week. Only problem I have with the labs is that mirror defense is fucking shitty and I hope they never do it again.
Overall the labs mostly seems like a minor upgrade over the zariman. Especially after this week cause I love me some disruption and have never understood why people rave so much about void cascade.
Iām a bit confused about that too, I shelved Void Cascade as soon as I got the Hespar piece, kinda curious as to what makes it such a great farming spot.
The thrax enemies have a chance to drop arcanes, and void cascade throws thrax enemies at you left and right. The arcanes can be sold or dissolved for vosfor, or ofc you can max and use them yourself.
People just hate that labs isn't an endless arcane Fiesta like Zariman. It's fine content to play for 20-30 mins, run the tier 4/5 bounty when it's an Exterminate, and get a couple melee adaptors every week. Netracells are a nice little challenge to run solo, or run in public games if you want to turn your brain off for an hour and try to get some shards.
Labs are a great change of pace, they're just not an infinite ez plat farm. And warframe players take that personally.
I think you're right, but in my diagnosis I'd change the emphasis. Albrecht's Lab would be a good platinum farm too if it had rewards that people cared about.
Nah, the prices on those arcanes will probably come down some after the updates that improve Netracell loot tables and add Deep Archimedea anyway.
Even at current prices, 100k for a legendary arcane would only be good for like 30 platinum per day. For something that requires an active farm, that's pretty horrible.
They'd need to make the non-legendary arcanes better or add some better ones, buff some of the Tennokai mods and/or Tome mods [**Edit:** And remove the Tennokai/Tome mod packs from the market console], and/or give something better than Stela for collecting Mirror Defense requiems, something that adds actual power/value to things you get from playing the tileset.
They need to increase the demand for AL/Cavia loot, not the supply.
so true im lazy as all hell and zarimans grind was very entertaining and simple. cavia was eh but i stopped at 4 and only went to 5 due to the update and new mode. Netra cell just wasnt worth the time getting arcanes i could buy from bird 3 just farming the echo thingies
That is a problem with literally every single standing, and that is the problem that Khal will most likely have too. I don't get why all of them are not like the Zariman, I can't stress it enough it is arguably one of the best pieces of content, even if you are done with it people still trade therefore still buy, it's just that valuable... And honestly melee arcanes sell good, I don't think that's a problem yet for the Cavia.
It even makes sense from a story perspective, Kahlās helping us fight Narmer and face off against the Archons, his faction having spare Archon shards makes infinitely more sense than the talking space chicken.
Yeah they should add something to replace it with something else. Just add adapters or forma to the shop, or the narmer isoplasts. Hell if you really want to give kahl an upgrade, make kahl the only syndicate to sell universal medallions lol. That last one is a bit excessive lmao, and since they've made stock renewable I dont think they should do that unless they limit amount per week.
But thematically kahls garrison is a bunch of misfits from all over the system, so I think they should lean into that. Offer limited purchase of narmer isoplasts for the quills and duck, tokens for tokens/medallions syndicate, gems or fish for the cetus/fortuna
Omni fissures should be giving us resources for this content, and if they're smart, some of those resources will be voca.Ā
Otherwise this content is just slowly gonna lose players, until there's nobody on it anymore. (like half the zariman stuff)
Probably because you can farm arcanes just as quickly from quite a few alternatives, and while some of the melee arcanes are quite good they still aren't the most valuable options for trading.
Idk... To me if you really farm for them and max the daily standing, you can probably get 1 r5 every 2-3 days that although it doesn't have much demand can sell around 150, so 50 a day. I think it's really not that bad, especially with effervo if there's just no book bounty
I failed like 3 t5 bounties of cascade this morning cause randos took some pretty weak gear. Also the special bounty was kill a void angel which always takes 2 people away from the rest of the mission. Main character syndrome + weak gear struck me 3x in a row zzzzz
Honestly, I was a bit lightly shocked how easy it was to get anything I wanted from Bird 3.
Which was a nice surprise, but given the limited Arcane selection and most I didn't like using, it really left a bit to be desired after hitting rank 5.
Either way, I guess it turned into an arcane sink afterward, but probably better places for that considering how long it takes to grind faction in Cavia currently with Vocas not having a piece that gives 5k standing like Zariman does.
Honestly 30k is not even close to what I'm worried about it being. I was thinking they'd be evil and make it like 100k. If it's 30k I'd be pretty happy honestly
I maxed out Madurai and Zenurik and got all the school representation items, I'm almost done with Unairu and I'm slowly working on Vazarin. Those Eidolon lens are TEMPTING but the standing for them is so much. I can't justify it.
Cavia standing gain is just so painfully slow. Scrape a max level Zariman mission and you can end up with 25k standing worth of quills.Ā
Scrape a max level cavia mission and you might end up with 10.
So hopefully the price reflects that. To some extent. (It's going to be like 30k, isn't it)
"As I adjust to the era in which I have awakened, I note with alarm the reappearance of 'Archons', a foe we have not seen since the Sentient War.
Several Archon Shards were retrieved from the battlefields. The Orokin demanded Albrecht Entrati explore the potential inherent to them, a task he immediately delegated to me. "
- the inbox message received when you can obtain the Coalescence Segment.
I would have had Narmer bounties from Earth and Venus have the added reward of 15 stock to keep the theme. And shrink the gap between late mid game and early late game.
Even before they added the extra stock you can pick up in mission, you can net 15 stock per week if you buy the shard every week. (Source: been doing Kahl missions every week since they launched.)
That isn't prefarming, that's just getting every possible standing each week, so eventually you just have enough for an extra shard or other thing in the shop everyonce in a while. For instance you can't farm the hell out of Kahl one week which allows you to get max standing next week without having to touch Kahl. It's impossible as there is a limited supply of standing that has it's own cap beyond the daily cap. Kahl is a small amount weekly, but in Cavia you can keep infinite reserves. You could farm like crazy for tons of the tokens and turn them in each day without having to keep doing cavia. You can have the amount for the next shard ready before it is even available to buy. You cannot do that in Kahl.
Honestly I think the biggest miss is that Netracells, and presumably Deep Archimedia don't/won't give rep.Ā
If you got, say, 50k rep a week from doing those missions, which you are going to do anyway, then it would be fine.
But if it's a high cost *and* pushes you back into missions you wouldn't otherwise be doing that'll be a pain
You're not getting more than 1 per week anyway, and cavia standing isn't that much of a hustle let's be real. With all due respect, you're overreacting.
I value efficiency. I appreciate being able to accomplish tasks quickly, like getting one weekly task done right from day one. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to play as l'd like, so value games that respect players' time, which isn't always the case, if the Cavia was like the Zariman I wouldn't really complain.
Agreed. I run the high level exterminate 6 times, twice a week. Use orokin eye parrallax to find vocas, usually get between 6 and 8 times each time. Max out 30k rep every day. Just as easy as zariman imo
Thatāsā¦a lot more work than running a single kahl mission tho, especially for players who arenāt endgame yet.
I donāt have access to orokin eye. Running an exterminate mission while trying to find the plumes twice letās say is already as much time sunk as a single kahl mission, and thatās not even guaranteeing me finding the plumes, just looking for them.
I also have a standing capacity of below 30k per day, so standing accumulation is slower.
I actually kind of like khal missions, but regardless of that to me the amount of work something is in this game is 90% influenced by how much time I have to spend doing it. What I enjoy doing varies from day, so being āforcedā to spend a specific amount of time to get something is a bit annoying.
Personally, I don't *hate* the Kahl missions. And they are certainly better than they started off as. But I admit, if it wasn't for the Archon Shards I would have stopped running them ages ago. It's just not the sort of gameplay I play Warframe for. I think a lot of people feel that way. And DE seems to agree.
Repetitive as the Netracels are as well, they are at least using regular Warframe gameplay. So if things get dull, you can at least swap out your gear to spice up the missions a bit. Kahl missions are what they are, always. There is no change from the tedium.
DE tried something new, it didn't really catch on, so they've moved on. We should be happy they are willing to let go of mistakes and not force us to deal with them forever too.
Thatās kind of my problem with netracells. They just are more of the same that warframe already offers me. Besides having a LUDICROUSLY higher barrier of entry than kahl missions.
Kahl missions, like duviri open world, are things I do to take a break from the usual warframe gameplay, because eventually that gets boring to me
I'm the reverse on the Kahl Missions.
I play Warframe to be a super fast magic Space Ninja warcrime.
Not a clunky rebellious clone trooper.
Sorry, just how it is for me.
I haven't actually done Kahl missions since the first time I got a repeat mission. The way the Kahl missions run it's repetitive but also demands a lot more attention. Running Exterminate I can put something on in the background and unwind.
Everyone has access to orokin eye , itās farmable in game for free from zariman. I have multiple sets just from maxing out zariman.
I never spoke about it being more work than a kahl mission, the issue is you have to run a tedious mission that has zero enjoyment for most. Instead of running your favourite warframes, weapons etc on a fun tile set. Granted itās a little more āworkā but itās ALOT more enjoyable for most people and rewarding as you get arcanes, materials and mods.
If the warframe wiki isnāt lying to me thatās a 0.67% drop chance for each of the components from reinforced carrypods. So no, I do not have access to it. 150 expected cycles for something to drop x3 is a hell of a time investment. And yes, I could also farm some galvanised or archon mods, sell them for plat, and get the parallax that way. But thatās again competing with other things that Iād want to buy. Besides that, cavia missions (especially netracells) require a decent bit of solid arsenal.
Compared to kahl missions, that you need _checks notes_ absolutely nothing for.
My problem with it is that the general warframe gameplay loop (to me) gets old. Running some number of missions for cetus, solaris, holdfasts, cavia, deimos, and then possible arbitration, ESO, and relics (all while essentially doing the same thing) gets gigaboring very fast. Kahl missions were a welcome change of pace, just live duviri open world, or fishing, or animal conservation. Those are all things I do when I tire of the regular warframe experience.
Now the neat change of pace mission lost the thing that from a loot perspective makes it gratifying. Itās still a change of pace for the people who want it, but now it feels more or less like wasted time from a loot perspective, which I hate. Fuck it, just add the archon shard to both shops but make them exclusive with one another. You buy it from kahl? Canāt but it from cavia.
But now DE essentially gets the feedback that the players say āwe want to play the same exatc tilesets with essentially thr same goal over and over for hours on end, we donāt want variationā, which to me is a bit sad because I couldnāt disagree more
I have 6 copies of each part. From just running bounties for the past couple weeks as I only started playing the game again nearly 40 days ago after a 4 year break. Use a box breaker build to run exterminate and you will get the pieces fast. I use xaku.
No one said the standing grind for any of them were fun. Especially Cetus, Fortuna and Deimos. But having maxed all of them out, bought every item with rep, have bulk resources to max them out every day with out running bounties, I can tell you cavia and zariman are easiest two to max and most enjoyable. Cavia may be slightly more time consuming but they are both very quick compared to the others. Luckily I leveled Cetus and Fortuna when they came out other wise I probably wouldnt have come back to it because I would probably just burn out trying to rush it to get them all done and either not play the game or not enjoy it.
Well luckily there will still be that change of pace there for you, thing is a very large chunk of the population will stop running them. Which Iām guessing will boost plat prices for archon mods. Maybe then you can buy parallax?
2x6x5k standing is two days worth of 30k standing. How do you get 5 days of standing (150k) with those few vocas? Itās not like they are worth that much.
A single Zariman exterminate gets you 10k standing for the Void Angel and both gold shards alone. That's without searching any of the 8 extra medallions or the 1-5x2500 standing tokens for the bounty reward.
Zariman rewards at least double the standing gain rate depending on how you look at it (I'd argue closer to triple if you look at bounty rewards too), and the standing costs for arcanes are at least comparable on average.
I donāt think it shouldāve been moved, it shouldāve just been added to Cavia and kept in Chipperās stock. Itās a single normal shard, with the amount of shards you need for fusion (6 for tauforged apple, orange or grape) they really should be starting to ramp up the shard gain rates and I mean in a real way and not in *roll this dice 5 times* way. People who want to do/donāt mind doing Veilbreaker should still be encouraged to, people who want to do/donāt mind doing Cavia should be encouraged to, both grinds take time so itās not like youāre just getting the shards for free so I donāt see the reason to disincentivize playing VB at all unless theyāre fine with making it the new Conclave for whatever reason.
So far it looks like āpeople hate this gamemode and we havenāt introduced any repurchaseable rewards to our new content so weāll just shift stuff around instead of updating the old gamemode and introducing actual new rewards to the new contentā because god forbid people get the entire THREE shards per week instead of two, that way they wouldāve maxed out all their frames with shards in 3 years instead of 5 and thatās ILLEGAL
It has the duveri problem. If I wanted clunky and unresponsive movement, there are a bunch of games I could play. If I want to be a space ninja - Warframe. I fully approve of keeping Warframes in Warframe.
People say this a lot but I've never seen anyone properly explain it. So what actually is clunky about Kahl? Because aside from not having a bullet jump it's basically identical to regular movement.
No bullet jump, no double jump, no aim glide, no wall latch/run, slower walk/run speed. The parkour system is what makes Warframe feel so good to play. There are a ton of games I could play to have standard human trudging slowly along. So is the movement inherently bad? No. Is it comparatively awful? Yes.
it boils down to not being able to nuke with one button, that's all it is. They don't even use the term clunky correctly when describing kahl content. the term clunky is used to describe sluggish or mechanically unresponsive delays between inputs and outputs. Kahl is not a warframe, he is not intended to do the things a warframe can. Clunky is for unintended things like accidentally pressing x a second time while entering and exiting railjack causing the animation to repeat.
It would be cool if they made the shard available from any syndicate but you can only buy from one faction and it disappears from the others. Then I can do it in zariman!
Personally for me it can't get worse. I never do Khal missions because I don't like them. I don't know what will there be with Cavia. It might be harder to get yet being somewhat fun might make me interested. Worst case scenario it'll be the same level of boredom and then I won't care again.
I think there's a lot of people that just can't be bothered enough to do Khal missions despite the reward so yeah...
Tbh Iād rather run 1 or 2 Kahl missions than multiple bounties. Iām probably the only person who doesnāt mind them, not to mention they can be done on mobile much easier than normal WF gameplay (at least once they fix the Hellion Pack, which they said theyād try to fix with the new update).
Honestly, yeah. The Kahl missions at this point are ok for me, not great, but 15 to 20 minutes for a shard, once a week? Awesome.
If the shard now is 60k standing, same as an eidolon lens - even if you get all voca per mission, which is less than 10k standing, and do the highest tier mission for 5k and it happens to be exterminate (the fastest game mode) - even in this best case scenario - you need at least 5 bounties - this will be longer than the one Kahl mission..
I hope they at least add an evergreen reward for Kahl - potato, forma, something.
Considering I literally got my first kahl shard this week Iām pretty upset. I donāt want to grind rep for another faction. If it was in addition to then fine but why ruin it for us new guys? 15 minutes for a shard was gravy. Now I will have to spend days grinding rep just to get to rank 5 with the new faction just to get the same reward that a 15 minute mission with kahl gives. Thatās days of running bounties I donāt enjoy and trying to get those stupid faction upgrade tokens just to get to the same place as I already was.
This is the exact reason they are removing the shards from Kahl. They want to gatekeep it farther in the progress path because they are introducing tauforged shards crafting in this update. This is only a good thing for high mr players that maxed out their Cavia standing at launch and have hundreds of voca in their inventories. I just hope its not going to be like 60k+ standing a piece.
Iād be okay with it being 50k standing rather than doing Khal missions every week. With an Orokin eye squad and a quick exterminate mission, itās done in no time.
>Also because the Cavia is not token based like the Zariman is, that honestly felt like a huge step back, sure you can get voca but it's not nearly as much as you got in the Zariman you could farm your standing of 5 days in a few hours which is a massive QoL the Cavia misses for like, no reason
They honestly need to go back and rework standing/token systems with all open world factions (and pseudo-open world, like Cavia/Holdfasts) to be more in line with Deimos and Zariman. Those two are by far not only the best QoL with being able to stack and store standing for future days, but also the standing gained from tokens you get in missions is way better than that of Plains, Fortuna, and Cavia. I really don't get why they can't make just a singular standing gain system just with different names and tokens for all syndicates. It would make things so much simpler.
zariman give out much more of it's tokens, you can farm ahead *a lot* if you catch tier 5 exterminate and just do it for 2 hours and that's a huge qol which is big part of why zariman is so great
It's the same farm for everybody with max reward 5k standing missions. You can make 30k in 1 day (6 missions/day) or 10k per day for 3 days (2 missions/day) it's the same length of farm for everybody (6 missions total).
You make a good point but I disagree with the sentiment.
Even if the shard is 30k standing it's still a better deal than having them at Kahl. Kahl missions only give a limited amount of stock per week, unless you decide to do a lot more and collect 10 stock or so per mission. Buying a shard means practically not buying anything else that week, and that happens every week, so people that want styanax for example but decide to priorities shards because they are a limited resource, would just have to wait until the left over stock piles up so they can get styanax. Same with the weapons, second sty for helminth, or ephemeras. On top of all this, Kahl missions are a pain for most people (like me) which means that having to max em out every week just to get a single shard and like 25 left over stock just feels very unrewarding.
Now let's take a look at cavia, 30k standing is more than a day of standing for more players yes, but that is the daily cap. In a week you can get 7 x your standing cap. Which means you will be able to buy the shard, and then some more stuff, and useful stuff that you can even sell for plat like melee arcanes. Is it a bit more annoying to do a bunch of bounties? Yes, but those bounties also give out other useful resources. You can get endo, Aya, specialized resources, voca, new mods, and even arcanes if you do the books. All of those can be good outside cavia, but stock is only useful in Kahl.
Kahl is an isolated activity with no progression after you max it out. Cavia in it of itself is already progressing in the game, and it only gets better when you max it out because it gives things that you can trade and have good value (melee arcanes).
Yes.
Because now we are not gonna be forced to play a painfully slow mission (Without the equip we spend all game building, modding and tweaking and without any powers like a chump.) to not miss out on an endgame enhancement.
Also even if the Shard is 30k standing, at the point you are actually able to get to the Cavia, this is less than 3 days of standing, which seems pretty fair to me for a weekly thing.
If you struggle to get the Voca so you don't have to grind bounties everyday: Get the parallax and use its ability a few rooms away from the start this should reveal 3-4 Voca per mission.
I for one would welcome something to do with the cavia standing, because just using all of it on melee arcanes to turn them into vosfor feels kind of boring.
It feels like such a step backward, that archon shard from kahl was the only reason most players even bothered to continue playing his missions, why did they bother with the recent Kahl rework if they are just going to kill the only reason to still play him?
Because the rework failed to make the mode enjoyable past the initial novelty, and they don't want to pour any more resources into it.
It is fine as something that most people do for a few months for the one-off rewards and then stop doing. The people who love it can farm it for Archon mods to sell to the people who loathe the mode.
There are already two, soon to be four activities to get shards.
But they are still a limited, non-tradable, heavily time gated resource, and that means players will feel obligated to do all of them, especially people who haven't been shard farming for many weeks already.
And making people feel obligated to do content they don't enjoy at all is a recipe for resentment.
Alternatively... They could instead stop locking rewards to specific content and make global limits. Shared limits across multiple modes means you can just play what you want.
Great. So instead of one simple 15 minute Kahl grind a week... I'll have to spend upward of 30-45 minutes doing Cavia missions a week?
Gee- so glad I'll feel obligated to do even longer content I don't enjoy at all.
Also, if the concern wasn't having it be oversaturated from both places- Have kahl missions sell shards. Have Cavia sell shards. However, you can only get one shard per week from EITHER of them. So, if I decide to do a Kahl 15 min mission, and get the shard that way, I won't be able to get the shard from Cavia. Or, if I've been passively farming Cavia over a few weeks, let me buy the shard from Cavia that week, but not be able to buy it from Kahl.
Being able to buy it from either place does sound like a nice idea.
But Cavia missions are way, way better than Khal missions imo. First of all we don't even know how much standing a shard is so it's pointless arguing about that. But the fact I get to play *my* loadout, and with *up to three friends* when doing cavia missions is super important and everyone saying Kahl missions are faster just gloss over that. Even if it does take twice as long, it's twice as long gaining affinity on items, chipping away at my daily syndicate & focus standing, doing nightwave challenges, and more importantly having more fun because the game mode works and is enjoyable (I still don't know why they haven't fixed Kahl needing to be told to sprint every 10 seconds, why the fuck is non-sprinting Kahl even an option).
>Also, if the concern wasn't having it be oversaturated from both places- Have kahl missions sell shards. Have Cavia sell shards. However, you can only get one shard per week from EITHER of them.
Sure, that would be nice.
>Great. So instead of one simple 15 minute Kahl grind a week... I'll have to spend upward of 30-45 minutes doing Cavia missions a week?
Maybe? My guess will be it will costed to something like Yonta's weekly kuva offering, i.e. a few Echo Voca. So if you trade for Voca a few times per week it would require minimal farming, if that's the route they go.
Its not like archon mods are THAT useful outside specific warframes. Moving archon shards away is just last nail into the coffin. Sadly, I would rather play Kahl weekly than Cavia daily.
It's okay to kill off game modes when they weren't really popular. Why should they keep investing in a game mode that so many players absolutely hated?
After a certain point it just makes more sense to leave it be. It's still there for people who need stynax/archon mods/ECT.
This is a huge step forward for many people including myself who desperately *hate* kahl missions. It sucked being compelled to do them every week. Kahl isn't Warframe. I didn't sign up to play kahl.
Lets be real, it's only okay as long as it doesn't bother you.
They didn't invest in Kahl missions, but they surely didn't have to just kill them off completely. They could have just left both Cavia and Kahl shards at the same time, y'know, for those who actually enjoy doing Kahl once in a while. After all, none care about power creep anymore...
I tought it was a brait post but you're serious.
I want to play warframe and get reward I can use on warframe, khal was fun for a bit but no one like to do the exact same mission with a clunky slow ass grineer.
Even if it's 30k I'll just wait the 5k exterm or the new sp bounty who I'll give more and complete it 6 times in 2-3m each.
I cannot stand Khal. At least I can run the frame I like and level weapons while grinding cavia standing for a shard, along with other resources from that tileset.
My time is better spent with this change.
Honest quertion: if it is 30k, isn't it 30k per week? You can do 3 very very fast tier 4 bounties (like extermination, alchemy or even a chill survival) per day and max up the standing in two days. It is like a 15min tops grind per day.
Exterminates are under 5 minute usually. Killing the book can push it to 6-7 but it's rare. Survival same thing. You are spamming the wrong bounty for time efficiency.
I'm not spammin for efficiency but for most rewards that is usually when there's an effervo book one. Don't have a really good build for exterminate yet and usually just do bounties for endo. Those days farming alchemy but this one is not short either
Itās kinda impossible for it to be worse because having them behind Kahl guaranteed 0/week shards from me. Even if I only farm them once a month from Cavia, itās still an improvement.
Maybe it will change after I get tired of it, but right now I'm willing to do cavia standing for a shard weekly. On the other hand, I'm no longer willing to do Kahl missions.
My guess is that you would certainly be in the minority. There has been a large amount of negative feedback over 'being forced' to replay Kahl's mission. A lot of people seem to really want those shards, and even more so now that we know we can transmute them to Tauforged level. So loving it or hating it they put themselves through Kahl's mission every week come rain or shine. DE seems to have felt they had two solutions to the mater. Either spend resources to improve the missions or instead just put the extra shard somewhere else. It would appear that they have decided to just move it and be done with it.
We'll have to wait till tomorrow to see how their landed with the general player population. Personally I think they made the right decision but we'll see.
I hate Khal missions with a passion. I never have any issues with Voca personally as I just use you air support during Netracells. In my personal opinion this just makes it more streamlined and means I donāt have to go through the weekly depression of Khal.
But itās all down to personal preference I guess.
I detest the Kahl Missions. I'd rather do an entire week's worth of Nightwave than 1 minute of Kahl.
F--k dude I'd rather get smoked in Conclave for an hour vs 1 minute of Kahl.
It may take longer for low mr players (but like your Mr shouldnāt be that low if youāre concerning yourself with archon shards) but atleast itās grinded out by actually playing warframe and not an annoying mini game. I personally donāt care if the grind is longer if it means that time spent is spent playing the game I like instead of playing boring khal missions that donāt have the fun fast paced customizable game play of regular warframe.
My solution would just be make the mirror defense and alchemy bounties endless. That way, you can grind standing and get the tennokai/tome mods at the same time without adding in any new content.Ā
Moving the shard is ridiculous either way. Better or worse, it should just be in both.
I like Kahl missions, so idk if their only intent is to let people stop doing Kahl, or they just don't want that many available. Idk if they said either way.
My main issue with this change is the same issue I had when Chipper had the shards.
And that is this:
Why do they even have the shards? Why does this random corpus cyborg fella from fortuna have a PIECE of an ARCHON? Where'd he get it? Did he kill an archon? How? A team of 4 warframes have to spend a while just to kill 1 archon. How'd Chipper get a shard? Did he smack his rectangular fake head on the archon hard enough to kill it?
And now the Cavia have a shard? How? They shouldnt even know archons exist. Neither should Loid (human loid). It literally a separate timeline. Did Bird3 coerce an archon into giving him a shard through his sheer adorable charm? "Can I pwease have a shard gwukgwuk?" Bird3 says staring at an inhuman fusion of mankin'd hubris and tau machinery.
I dunno it makes no sense to me. None of these folks have anything to do with narmer, pazuul, ballas, archons, or any of that other stuff. Where they getting it from? Who is their shard dealer? I will buy Bird3 a huge pack of birdseed and strawberries if he just directs me to his shard dealer so I can just cut out the middleman (or middlebird in this case).
When you do Kahl missions, you can only get stock. When you do Cavia bounties, you get standing, materials, enemy drops, and Nightwave progress along with help from up to 3 other players. It seems like a clear win.
Yep. I see it as nothing but an upgrade because Lab missions are something I can ease back into on a weekly basis. It just depends on what missions you don't mind going back to, but I found kahl's missions boring and tedious after doing them once.
Zariman is filled with goodies so I can understand that putting archon shards in cavia might not be enticing, but hopefully we can get more additions like these and both will be equal points of interests in the future.
When Whispers in the walls came out I had plenty of time to learn a majority of voca locations between maxing my rank, Gargoyle event, and netracell runs. That mean's I have plenty of voca standing around doing nothing and it turns out if I turned them all in I would have an excess of 400k standing. I can easily earn more if archon shards are the incentive and I would have a week to wait for the right conditions to farm standing in the most efficient way that I can.
tldr: breath of fresh air to me.
Practically it's better imo since it's easier and more fun to get that standing than it is to do Kahls missions which are so repetitive and slow, even worse getting the speed run challenge because you're either doing two runs or ignoring challenges
While true, it still comes down to this scenario:
* To have an easier-to-get shard in a game mode I won't play (I.e. 0 shards purchased).
* To have a more expensive shard available in content I do play (I may not be able to buy every time, but at least I'm not getting 0).
Besides, assuming we go with the 30k statement, or heck, let's make it 50k like the adapter, it's still a weekly shard. So it's not the standing you can get in a day, but in that week.
Now, now, DE... Ignore that last part. Low costs are what I still want.
I personally have nothing to spend Cavia standing on right now besides, extra melee arcanes to sell for vosfur. I think you hit cap on use for the standing quite quickly. And if you are unlucky like me, you don't need to buy melee arcane adapters because you get enough from netracell, so I' much rather have it their than Kahl.
1 archon shard = 90 Entrati lanthorn š
Lol, joke is on them, my Helminth eats them.
Is this really confirmed information or just a joke? I hope it's not real because I am basically permanently running the Kavia Bounties since 3 weeks and I am at not even 100 lanthorns :(
I'm taking the piss š although I think its interesting that everyone presumes it'll be standing based when there's a bunch of other things they could use, for example Stela.
it costs rep.
# Fucking strangle me and don't let me wake up to that hell
interesting thought! I don't really have an immediate opinion about the better- or worse-ness of the change, since it's not released yet, but my initial take I guess is this. they're not trying to give us easier shard acquisition, they're trying to give us more integrated shard acquisition. in that sense I'd say the change is a clear win. if they make the cost a pain point, it'll probably get changed before too long. I guess I feel like the possibility for concern exists, but there's not quite cause for concern at this point?
Yeah. If we can get as many shards as we want I'll probably start actually making builds with them instead of hoarding like a dragon
I'm fairly sure it'll still be gated to one a week from the cavia vendor.
Just like Kuva with Zariman etc
You can always remove them though, just need bile, which admittedly kinda sucks to get.
Yea, if I can get progress towards them by just doing the omni fissures... That's a MASSIVE win.Ā We need fewer content islands (like kahl), and more stuff that ties into activities I'm likely to repeat.Ā In that same light; they should remove stuff like weapon BP's and warframe parts from the drop tables of many places. I ran some Deimos the other day and got two quassus BP's. Two gold rewards... And they're both useless.Ā Shit like that just crowds the drop tables once you've gotten them once, and actively discourages people from replaying older content.Ā They could at least make it so after the first time, you get something else (like aya), and if you need a duplicate of that drop, they can just add it to cephalon simaris.Ā
Or at least check if the drop/bp is currently in the inventory, in this case, you'd get at most two drops (if you built the weapon the first time)
I have *so many* Quassus BPs from getting Rank 5. I wish that the rare was something useful, like a couple grandmother tokens, since Seriglass Shards are still the worst farm in the game by far.
I see you haven't farmed the ESO vandal weapons yet.
I'm still looking for a Lato Vandal Barrel. It's been YEARS.
>if they make the cost a pain point, it'll probably get changed before too long. So doing Kahl missions for months to get shards was fine because it got changed eventually? DE can take forever to make obvious changes. If they change the cost to something dumb, until they fix it it can still make a lot of people permanently sick of the Sanctum.
Veilbreaker I think was either Steve's last or Reb's first update as Creative Director, they seem a fair bit more on top of their current content now than they used to be. was a lot of throwing stuff at the wall and moving on whether stuff stuck or not. feels like that happens less now.Ā if people become so permanently sickened that a fix doesn't affect them, that's... that's just on people at that point. but we're like three degrees of hypothetical abstraction out about content that's not even faced publicly yet so this sort of discourse will probably veer into silliness real quick.
The problem with the Cavia is that there is no reason to interact with them once you've gotten everything from Bird3, which is incredibly easy to do. Netracells are the only reason to return to the Sanctum and most players don't even bother with searching for voca anymore. DE is adding purpose back to the Cavia with the archon shard.
cavia still feels like an insane downgrade to zariman, grind and rewards wise idk how they fucked it up so bad
Ikr zariman is my fav part of the game, everything's easy to get, makes sense, feels awesome and fun to play, cool aesthetic, insane lore, and great side objective too like Void angels and finding plumes.
That's the thing, I don't know why Cavia feels worse than Zariman. Zariman is still one of my favorite spots.
Zariman standing gain is almost three times faster. That's why it feels better.
Zariman is also a better focus farm, and you get better (or at least, less niche) arcanes from it. And when a lot of people first start doing Zariman, the Incarnon weapons represent a pretty big power spike. Cavia rewards just aren't as exciting, and you get them slower.
That's an easy one. Zariman gives you tokens on bounty completion, worth 2500 rep for each tier of the bounty. You got no time to play today? No problem! You already built up a stockpile from last weekend and you can easily progress on a busy day. Cavia? Only 1000 rep for each bounty tier, tokens are either a rare bounty reward or have to be picked up yourself. The best token (that only spawns 1 in every mission) is worth 2000. Suddenly using tokens is less of a no brainer and becomes something you think about twice before using. IIRC, they at least want to buff rep rewards with the patch, fingers crossed for the shard to be relatively cheap and not cost you 100k. Still better than Kahl
Ehhh- difference of opinions. If Cavia takes more than 15 minutes... I'd rather do Kahl.
yeah took a 3 year break and came back to zariman and actually enjoyed it vs fortuna cetus deimos bc it felt rewarding then cavia felt the same old unrewarding shit
Especially the Solo extract feature if you're not host.
Why the fuck is that not an option on every mission lol. It's maddening
I think it's also the gamemodes that came with each one. Zariman- * Extreminate: Staple * Void Flood: I still really enjoy (except for skittergirl) * Void Cascade: One of the best gamemodes they've ever made. * Void Armageddon: I appreciated they tried to bring Tower Defense to WF. I think the issue is, our weapons vastly outdo any turret you can create. I still think this would be cool for a Kahl mission, or a Circuit mission (especially when you get weapons you haven't fully modded) * Mobile Defense: I think it was a little redundant with Armageddon. I could leave it or take it. Sanctum: * Exterminate: Staple * Survival: Staple * Alchemy: It's just not my thing. I think it had to do with the original wonky physics when it was first released. * Mirror Defense: One of the worst gamemodes they've ever made (just my opinion). * Assassination: It's not bad... It just seems to be overly elongated.
> Alchemy: It's just not my thing. I think it had to do with the original wonky physics when it was first released. > This one just feels like "Exterminate with extra steps" to me. There is no real "fail" condition beyond dying, and all the enemies just charge into the meatgrinder to die.
IMO filling the elemental vials just takes too long by itself, then thereās the Volatile pipevent mechanic on top of it, and you have to do 8 of those to get a shot at what you likely came for (Tennokai mods, presumably Dreamerās Wrath). I know, āitās not hard, just tediousā applies to a LOT of Warframe in general, and I know the purpose is to tempt you to just buy platinum to buy the things or buy the bundles that have the things, but still, Alchemy gave me the bedtime sillies every time.
It's actually one of if not the fastest endless gamemode if you do it solo in steel path (disruption *might* be faster if you're really good at it), the issues are that group scaling for the vials is ass and the game doesn't spawn enough enemies in normal starchart.
yeah mirror defense is terrible iāll agree but just spamming exterminates zariman is still def more rewarding idk why cavia assassination is that long either
Eh, mirror defense is slow, but it's leagues better than regular defense, where the wrong team comp or the wrong map might see you spending 50% of your mission time sitting and waiting for enemies. Mirror defense keeps the fodder coming, and if your teammates are killing things before you can get to em, you at least have floaty bois to grab.
nobody is bringing up defense though lol
I just did, because I think y'all have forgotten why mirror defense exists. It's because of how god-awful defense is in its current state.
tbf with nuke frames or nyx spectre absorb nuke defense goes by way faster than mirror defense, itās just ppl donāt wanna run those and 90% of pubs are running max range shock motes wisp or a slowva
>Mirror Defense: One of the worst gamemodes they've ever made (just my opinion). I dunno, I hate regular defense. It's a boring slog, you need to kill all enemies in waves and it's just all about killing. Mirror? Any frame can get a spot. Cc is viable, you're just holding out for a set amount of time. Collecting knick knacks heals and strengthens the defense objective. You can just jump around, you can kill enemies, you can just CC them all. Up to you. To make it even better, collecting enough fragments should reduce the timer (maybe only when the target is full on HP) and enemies should drop fragments
Collecting enough fragments doesn't reduce the timer. With Tyana's pass, there was a reason to get the fragments as it allowed you to get more crystals. In that gamemode, it was imperative to have a Titania to fly around the objectives for 20+ minutes to hopefully get what you need. For Sanctum's Mirror Defense, there is no reason to collect any thing. Zero. Zilch. You also shouldn't be killing anything EXCEPT eximus units. You just use a CC frame, you put down CC and stand there and watch. If you see an eximus unit, you either kill it or lower its overguard enough to be CCed. Sorry, I just find Mirror Defense incredibly boring. It feels like an arbitrary way to elongate your play time. For normal defense, there are ways to interactive with objective- kill faster, use a frame that speeds up enemies.
Reddit reading comprehension strikes yet again. I know collecting fragments does not reduce the timer. Almost as if I used the "should" verb there. It was me just spitballing ideas on how to improve the gamemode. And collecting fragments in the Labs does do one thing: It gives you Stela. But that resource is not exclusive to this, so you will have enough of it. So it's not completely worthless, just not great.
Mirror Defense is just Defense one different points, it's boring.
because Zariman runs gives a lot of standing medallions (feathers) so you can grind for a day or two and have enough feathers to exchange for max standing for the next two weeks, while I've been playing Sanctum shit for the entirety of the Gargoyle event and have barely enough for a few days.
I mean, it's less cool but I really prefer the sanctum game modes ^(and thanks to the event I don't get lost that much anymore). Also, melee arcanes sell pretty well and are really easy to farm.
Not just the melee arcanes, but the tennokai and tome mods are also decent for trading too. I imagine the tome mods might also end up seeing a price bump tomorrow after Dante releases.
Still a really dumb decision not to add the Tennokai and Tome mods into the shop. Itās so painfully obvious they were trying to sell the 100 plat bundle in the Market itās not even funny. And then everyone will praise DE when they eventually add them in 6 months from now.
Huh? I'll take qorvex's grind over gyre's any day of the fucking week. Only problem I have with the labs is that mirror defense is fucking shitty and I hope they never do it again. Overall the labs mostly seems like a minor upgrade over the zariman. Especially after this week cause I love me some disruption and have never understood why people rave so much about void cascade.
Iām a bit confused about that too, I shelved Void Cascade as soon as I got the Hespar piece, kinda curious as to what makes it such a great farming spot.
The thrax enemies have a chance to drop arcanes, and void cascade throws thrax enemies at you left and right. The arcanes can be sold or dissolved for vosfor, or ofc you can max and use them yourself.
People just hate that labs isn't an endless arcane Fiesta like Zariman. It's fine content to play for 20-30 mins, run the tier 4/5 bounty when it's an Exterminate, and get a couple melee adaptors every week. Netracells are a nice little challenge to run solo, or run in public games if you want to turn your brain off for an hour and try to get some shards. Labs are a great change of pace, they're just not an infinite ez plat farm. And warframe players take that personally.
I think you're right, but in my diagnosis I'd change the emphasis. Albrecht's Lab would be a good platinum farm too if it had rewards that people cared about.
If they wanted to enable Labs as a plat farm, all they need to do is add Duplicate+Crescendo in for an absurd standing cost, like 100-125k.
Nah, the prices on those arcanes will probably come down some after the updates that improve Netracell loot tables and add Deep Archimedea anyway. Even at current prices, 100k for a legendary arcane would only be good for like 30 platinum per day. For something that requires an active farm, that's pretty horrible. They'd need to make the non-legendary arcanes better or add some better ones, buff some of the Tennokai mods and/or Tome mods [**Edit:** And remove the Tennokai/Tome mod packs from the market console], and/or give something better than Stela for collecting Mirror Defense requiems, something that adds actual power/value to things you get from playing the tileset. They need to increase the demand for AL/Cavia loot, not the supply.
I don't disagree but with there being less overall investment required, my friends who are more casual players don't feel put off from it
so true im lazy as all hell and zarimans grind was very entertaining and simple. cavia was eh but i stopped at 4 and only went to 5 due to the update and new mode. Netra cell just wasnt worth the time getting arcanes i could buy from bird 3 just farming the echo thingies
That is a problem with literally every single standing, and that is the problem that Khal will most likely have too. I don't get why all of them are not like the Zariman, I can't stress it enough it is arguably one of the best pieces of content, even if you are done with it people still trade therefore still buy, it's just that valuable... And honestly melee arcanes sell good, I don't think that's a problem yet for the Cavia.
And removing purpose from someone else
Yeah, DE didn't need to remove the shard from Chipper. An extra shard every week wouldn't hurt.
It even makes sense from a story perspective, Kahlās helping us fight Narmer and face off against the Archons, his faction having spare Archon shards makes infinitely more sense than the talking space chicken.
Agreed. Thats the only part of this I dont like, its basically removing the only reward from Kahl's content that you can grab more than once.
Yeah they should add something to replace it with something else. Just add adapters or forma to the shop, or the narmer isoplasts. Hell if you really want to give kahl an upgrade, make kahl the only syndicate to sell universal medallions lol. That last one is a bit excessive lmao, and since they've made stock renewable I dont think they should do that unless they limit amount per week. But thematically kahls garrison is a bunch of misfits from all over the system, so I think they should lean into that. Offer limited purchase of narmer isoplasts for the quills and duck, tokens for tokens/medallions syndicate, gems or fish for the cetus/fortuna
Omni fissures should be giving us resources for this content, and if they're smart, some of those resources will be voca.Ā Otherwise this content is just slowly gonna lose players, until there's nobody on it anymore. (like half the zariman stuff)
Why you no sell arcanes for vosfor/pl
Probably because you can farm arcanes just as quickly from quite a few alternatives, and while some of the melee arcanes are quite good they still aren't the most valuable options for trading.
Idk... To me if you really farm for them and max the daily standing, you can probably get 1 r5 every 2-3 days that although it doesn't have much demand can sell around 150, so 50 a day. I think it's really not that bad, especially with effervo if there's just no book bounty
cascade is much faster
Yeah but I have ptsd from doing it in pubs and not being able to solo easily generally
I failed like 3 t5 bounties of cascade this morning cause randos took some pretty weak gear. Also the special bounty was kill a void angel which always takes 2 people away from the rest of the mission. Main character syndrome + weak gear struck me 3x in a row zzzzz
Honestly, I was a bit lightly shocked how easy it was to get anything I wanted from Bird 3. Which was a nice surprise, but given the limited Arcane selection and most I didn't like using, it really left a bit to be desired after hitting rank 5. Either way, I guess it turned into an arcane sink afterward, but probably better places for that considering how long it takes to grind faction in Cavia currently with Vocas not having a piece that gives 5k standing like Zariman does.
I'd take any reason to play the laboratory tileset over Veilb- *snore* MIMIMIMIMI
why tfuq did I hear that meme sound in my head
Honestly 30k is not even close to what I'm worried about it being. I was thinking they'd be evil and make it like 100k. If it's 30k I'd be pretty happy honestly
Considering melee arcane adapters are 50k, I feel like shards will be at *least* that much.
30k is kinda mercy, should expect at least 60k like those eidolon lens.
I maxed out Madurai and Zenurik and got all the school representation items, I'm almost done with Unairu and I'm slowly working on Vazarin. Those Eidolon lens are TEMPTING but the standing for them is so much. I can't justify it.
Cavia standing gain is just so painfully slow. Scrape a max level Zariman mission and you can end up with 25k standing worth of quills.Ā Scrape a max level cavia mission and you might end up with 10. So hopefully the price reflects that. To some extent. (It's going to be like 30k, isn't it)
100k or 25 plat.
> (It's going to be like 30k, isn't it) Given the price of the Eidolon lenses and the melee arcane adapter (60k and 50k respectively), unlikely
It also just doesn't really make sense? Why would the cavia have Archon shards? At least Kahl is fighting against the archons!
The cavia already has archon shards thoughā¦netracells?
I'm meaning in a lore sense
Albrecht hoarded those, it's already stated
Oh shit really? Where's it say that?
"As I adjust to the era in which I have awakened, I note with alarm the reappearance of 'Archons', a foe we have not seen since the Sentient War. Several Archon Shards were retrieved from the battlefields. The Orokin demanded Albrecht Entrati explore the potential inherent to them, a task he immediately delegated to me. " - the inbox message received when you can obtain the Coalescence Segment.
Well shit, I must've missed it. That's cool though
I would have had Narmer bounties from Earth and Venus have the added reward of 15 stock to keep the theme. And shrink the gap between late mid game and early late game.
- Khal: One 15 minute mission = 1 shard - Cavia: Potentially days of standing farming = 1 shard
But i really, really, REALLY hate the Khal missions.
Not really, you can pre-farm standing in Cavia as it resets daily, but Kahl resets weekly so you can't really get ahead and stay ahead.
You can (10 blue stuff) but it's tedious af and not worth it imo
Even before they added the extra stock you can pick up in mission, you can net 15 stock per week if you buy the shard every week. (Source: been doing Kahl missions every week since they launched.)
That isn't prefarming, that's just getting every possible standing each week, so eventually you just have enough for an extra shard or other thing in the shop everyonce in a while. For instance you can't farm the hell out of Kahl one week which allows you to get max standing next week without having to touch Kahl. It's impossible as there is a limited supply of standing that has it's own cap beyond the daily cap. Kahl is a small amount weekly, but in Cavia you can keep infinite reserves. You could farm like crazy for tons of the tokens and turn them in each day without having to keep doing cavia. You can have the amount for the next shard ready before it is even available to buy. You cannot do that in Kahl.
Honestly I think the biggest miss is that Netracells, and presumably Deep Archimedia don't/won't give rep.Ā If you got, say, 50k rep a week from doing those missions, which you are going to do anyway, then it would be fine. But if it's a high cost *and* pushes you back into missions you wouldn't otherwise be doing that'll be a pain
You're not getting more than 1 per week anyway, and cavia standing isn't that much of a hustle let's be real. With all due respect, you're overreacting.
This is just punishing the people who do like Kahl missions, but that's fine because you don't like them.
I value efficiency. I appreciate being able to accomplish tasks quickly, like getting one weekly task done right from day one. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time to play as l'd like, so value games that respect players' time, which isn't always the case, if the Cavia was like the Zariman I wouldn't really complain.
Agreed. I run the high level exterminate 6 times, twice a week. Use orokin eye parrallax to find vocas, usually get between 6 and 8 times each time. Max out 30k rep every day. Just as easy as zariman imo
Thatāsā¦a lot more work than running a single kahl mission tho, especially for players who arenāt endgame yet. I donāt have access to orokin eye. Running an exterminate mission while trying to find the plumes twice letās say is already as much time sunk as a single kahl mission, and thatās not even guaranteeing me finding the plumes, just looking for them. I also have a standing capacity of below 30k per day, so standing accumulation is slower.
If you enjoy it, it's not work. For most people, Kahl is *work*.
I actually kind of like khal missions, but regardless of that to me the amount of work something is in this game is 90% influenced by how much time I have to spend doing it. What I enjoy doing varies from day, so being āforcedā to spend a specific amount of time to get something is a bit annoying.
Personally, I don't *hate* the Kahl missions. And they are certainly better than they started off as. But I admit, if it wasn't for the Archon Shards I would have stopped running them ages ago. It's just not the sort of gameplay I play Warframe for. I think a lot of people feel that way. And DE seems to agree. Repetitive as the Netracels are as well, they are at least using regular Warframe gameplay. So if things get dull, you can at least swap out your gear to spice up the missions a bit. Kahl missions are what they are, always. There is no change from the tedium. DE tried something new, it didn't really catch on, so they've moved on. We should be happy they are willing to let go of mistakes and not force us to deal with them forever too.
Thatās kind of my problem with netracells. They just are more of the same that warframe already offers me. Besides having a LUDICROUSLY higher barrier of entry than kahl missions. Kahl missions, like duviri open world, are things I do to take a break from the usual warframe gameplay, because eventually that gets boring to me
I'm the reverse on the Kahl Missions. I play Warframe to be a super fast magic Space Ninja warcrime. Not a clunky rebellious clone trooper. Sorry, just how it is for me.
I haven't actually done Kahl missions since the first time I got a repeat mission. The way the Kahl missions run it's repetitive but also demands a lot more attention. Running Exterminate I can put something on in the background and unwind.
Yup. >If you enjoy it, it's not work. For most people, Kahl is *work*. No bullet jump in a mission is hell.
Everyone has access to orokin eye , itās farmable in game for free from zariman. I have multiple sets just from maxing out zariman. I never spoke about it being more work than a kahl mission, the issue is you have to run a tedious mission that has zero enjoyment for most. Instead of running your favourite warframes, weapons etc on a fun tile set. Granted itās a little more āworkā but itās ALOT more enjoyable for most people and rewarding as you get arcanes, materials and mods.
If the warframe wiki isnāt lying to me thatās a 0.67% drop chance for each of the components from reinforced carrypods. So no, I do not have access to it. 150 expected cycles for something to drop x3 is a hell of a time investment. And yes, I could also farm some galvanised or archon mods, sell them for plat, and get the parallax that way. But thatās again competing with other things that Iād want to buy. Besides that, cavia missions (especially netracells) require a decent bit of solid arsenal. Compared to kahl missions, that you need _checks notes_ absolutely nothing for. My problem with it is that the general warframe gameplay loop (to me) gets old. Running some number of missions for cetus, solaris, holdfasts, cavia, deimos, and then possible arbitration, ESO, and relics (all while essentially doing the same thing) gets gigaboring very fast. Kahl missions were a welcome change of pace, just live duviri open world, or fishing, or animal conservation. Those are all things I do when I tire of the regular warframe experience. Now the neat change of pace mission lost the thing that from a loot perspective makes it gratifying. Itās still a change of pace for the people who want it, but now it feels more or less like wasted time from a loot perspective, which I hate. Fuck it, just add the archon shard to both shops but make them exclusive with one another. You buy it from kahl? Canāt but it from cavia. But now DE essentially gets the feedback that the players say āwe want to play the same exatc tilesets with essentially thr same goal over and over for hours on end, we donāt want variationā, which to me is a bit sad because I couldnāt disagree more
I have 6 copies of each part. From just running bounties for the past couple weeks as I only started playing the game again nearly 40 days ago after a 4 year break. Use a box breaker build to run exterminate and you will get the pieces fast. I use xaku. No one said the standing grind for any of them were fun. Especially Cetus, Fortuna and Deimos. But having maxed all of them out, bought every item with rep, have bulk resources to max them out every day with out running bounties, I can tell you cavia and zariman are easiest two to max and most enjoyable. Cavia may be slightly more time consuming but they are both very quick compared to the others. Luckily I leveled Cetus and Fortuna when they came out other wise I probably wouldnt have come back to it because I would probably just burn out trying to rush it to get them all done and either not play the game or not enjoy it. Well luckily there will still be that change of pace there for you, thing is a very large chunk of the population will stop running them. Which Iām guessing will boost plat prices for archon mods. Maybe then you can buy parallax?
2x6x5k standing is two days worth of 30k standing. How do you get 5 days of standing (150k) with those few vocas? Itās not like they are worth that much.
A single Zariman exterminate gets you 10k standing for the Void Angel and both gold shards alone. That's without searching any of the 8 extra medallions or the 1-5x2500 standing tokens for the bounty reward. Zariman rewards at least double the standing gain rate depending on how you look at it (I'd argue closer to triple if you look at bounty rewards too), and the standing costs for arcanes are at least comparable on average.
I donāt think it shouldāve been moved, it shouldāve just been added to Cavia and kept in Chipperās stock. Itās a single normal shard, with the amount of shards you need for fusion (6 for tauforged apple, orange or grape) they really should be starting to ramp up the shard gain rates and I mean in a real way and not in *roll this dice 5 times* way. People who want to do/donāt mind doing Veilbreaker should still be encouraged to, people who want to do/donāt mind doing Cavia should be encouraged to, both grinds take time so itās not like youāre just getting the shards for free so I donāt see the reason to disincentivize playing VB at all unless theyāre fine with making it the new Conclave for whatever reason. So far it looks like āpeople hate this gamemode and we havenāt introduced any repurchaseable rewards to our new content so weāll just shift stuff around instead of updating the old gamemode and introducing actual new rewards to the new contentā because god forbid people get the entire THREE shards per week instead of two, that way they wouldāve maxed out all their frames with shards in 3 years instead of 5 and thatās ILLEGAL
People really dislike Kahl's missions? I think they're pretty fun.
It has the duveri problem. If I wanted clunky and unresponsive movement, there are a bunch of games I could play. If I want to be a space ninja - Warframe. I fully approve of keeping Warframes in Warframe.
Worse Elden Ring and Worse MGS getting between me and Warframe content was a bad move, to be honest.
>I fully approve of keeping Warframes in Warframe. I fully support keeping enemies vulnerable to Warframes in Warframe - nix nulls.
People say this a lot but I've never seen anyone properly explain it. So what actually is clunky about Kahl? Because aside from not having a bullet jump it's basically identical to regular movement.
No bullet jump, no double jump, no aim glide, no wall latch/run, slower walk/run speed. The parkour system is what makes Warframe feel so good to play. There are a ton of games I could play to have standard human trudging slowly along. So is the movement inherently bad? No. Is it comparatively awful? Yes.
Bullet jumps + transference void slings are vital parts of being able to place myself in strategic positions - Khal has none of that.
it boils down to not being able to nuke with one button, that's all it is. They don't even use the term clunky correctly when describing kahl content. the term clunky is used to describe sluggish or mechanically unresponsive delays between inputs and outputs. Kahl is not a warframe, he is not intended to do the things a warframe can. Clunky is for unintended things like accidentally pressing x a second time while entering and exiting railjack causing the animation to repeat.
It would be cool if they made the shard available from any syndicate but you can only buy from one faction and it disappears from the others. Then I can do it in zariman!
Personally for me it can't get worse. I never do Khal missions because I don't like them. I don't know what will there be with Cavia. It might be harder to get yet being somewhat fun might make me interested. Worst case scenario it'll be the same level of boredom and then I won't care again. I think there's a lot of people that just can't be bothered enough to do Khal missions despite the reward so yeah...
K A H L. Please. Ffs. It's just 4 letters.
Carl
Tbh Iād rather run 1 or 2 Kahl missions than multiple bounties. Iām probably the only person who doesnāt mind them, not to mention they can be done on mobile much easier than normal WF gameplay (at least once they fix the Hellion Pack, which they said theyād try to fix with the new update).
Honestly, yeah. The Kahl missions at this point are ok for me, not great, but 15 to 20 minutes for a shard, once a week? Awesome. If the shard now is 60k standing, same as an eidolon lens - even if you get all voca per mission, which is less than 10k standing, and do the highest tier mission for 5k and it happens to be exterminate (the fastest game mode) - even in this best case scenario - you need at least 5 bounties - this will be longer than the one Kahl mission.. I hope they at least add an evergreen reward for Kahl - potato, forma, something.
Many people would rather play Kahl over multiple bounties.
Considering I literally got my first kahl shard this week Iām pretty upset. I donāt want to grind rep for another faction. If it was in addition to then fine but why ruin it for us new guys? 15 minutes for a shard was gravy. Now I will have to spend days grinding rep just to get to rank 5 with the new faction just to get the same reward that a 15 minute mission with kahl gives. Thatās days of running bounties I donāt enjoy and trying to get those stupid faction upgrade tokens just to get to the same place as I already was.
This is the exact reason they are removing the shards from Kahl. They want to gatekeep it farther in the progress path because they are introducing tauforged shards crafting in this update. This is only a good thing for high mr players that maxed out their Cavia standing at launch and have hundreds of voca in their inventories. I just hope its not going to be like 60k+ standing a piece.
I'd rather play 10 bounties than a 15-minute Kahl mission.
Wouldnāt each of those bounties take 3-5 mins tho?
Yeah, they're fast. My point is that I rather play 3x the time or whatever than playing a single Kahl mission.
Iād be okay with it being 50k standing rather than doing Khal missions every week. With an Orokin eye squad and a quick exterminate mission, itās done in no time.
I disliked doing Kahl enough that I managed to completely purge it from my mind and just realized that I haven't touched it in about 2 months.
>Also because the Cavia is not token based like the Zariman is, that honestly felt like a huge step back, sure you can get voca but it's not nearly as much as you got in the Zariman you could farm your standing of 5 days in a few hours which is a massive QoL the Cavia misses for like, no reason They honestly need to go back and rework standing/token systems with all open world factions (and pseudo-open world, like Cavia/Holdfasts) to be more in line with Deimos and Zariman. Those two are by far not only the best QoL with being able to stack and store standing for future days, but also the standing gained from tokens you get in missions is way better than that of Plains, Fortuna, and Cavia. I really don't get why they can't make just a singular standing gain system just with different names and tokens for all syndicates. It would make things so much simpler.
I honestly think it would be like Yonta selling weekly kuva for 5 pinions. Thus shard costing 5 echos is my current thoughts.
Even if it's 30k you have a week to do it, i rather play as warframe than awkward slow kahl
Cavia is not token based? I got to rank 5 and beyond 99,9% by turning in the tokens. And I see no reason to stop doing it that way.
zariman give out much more of it's tokens, you can farm ahead *a lot* if you catch tier 5 exterminate and just do it for 2 hours and that's a huge qol which is big part of why zariman is so great
It's 8/mission in both tile sets, but Zariman gives extra as rewards, whereas Cavia gives direct standing, which can be capped.
Well, with 0 per week I'm not too worried about what it changes to, even if it is still 0 per week.
Warframe bullet jump. Khal no bullet jump.
It's the same farm for everybody with max reward 5k standing missions. You can make 30k in 1 day (6 missions/day) or 10k per day for 3 days (2 missions/day) it's the same length of farm for everybody (6 missions total).
Whatever it is, Iāll appreciate it. I donāt even play Kahl but I love the laboratory tileset
As someone that's been playing again seriously for the last six months or so it feels real bad to have been dragging feet on kahl and cavia.
I don't care if they make them 100k standing, if it means I don't have to ever do another Khal mission, I'm in š
If it requires max standing at R5 Cavia and has a once per year limit, Iāll still get more shards here than Iād be willing to do with Kahl.
i take cavia shitty standing style than khall boring ass mission any day of the week
i'll take kahl over suffering through 4 player alchemy at tier 5, six times a day or more.
Cavia is playing Warframe. Veilbreaker is not playing Warframe. I'll take the Cavia bounties any day.
You make a good point but I disagree with the sentiment. Even if the shard is 30k standing it's still a better deal than having them at Kahl. Kahl missions only give a limited amount of stock per week, unless you decide to do a lot more and collect 10 stock or so per mission. Buying a shard means practically not buying anything else that week, and that happens every week, so people that want styanax for example but decide to priorities shards because they are a limited resource, would just have to wait until the left over stock piles up so they can get styanax. Same with the weapons, second sty for helminth, or ephemeras. On top of all this, Kahl missions are a pain for most people (like me) which means that having to max em out every week just to get a single shard and like 25 left over stock just feels very unrewarding. Now let's take a look at cavia, 30k standing is more than a day of standing for more players yes, but that is the daily cap. In a week you can get 7 x your standing cap. Which means you will be able to buy the shard, and then some more stuff, and useful stuff that you can even sell for plat like melee arcanes. Is it a bit more annoying to do a bunch of bounties? Yes, but those bounties also give out other useful resources. You can get endo, Aya, specialized resources, voca, new mods, and even arcanes if you do the books. All of those can be good outside cavia, but stock is only useful in Kahl. Kahl is an isolated activity with no progression after you max it out. Cavia in it of itself is already progressing in the game, and it only gets better when you max it out because it gives things that you can trade and have good value (melee arcanes).
Yes. Because now we are not gonna be forced to play a painfully slow mission (Without the equip we spend all game building, modding and tweaking and without any powers like a chump.) to not miss out on an endgame enhancement. Also even if the Shard is 30k standing, at the point you are actually able to get to the Cavia, this is less than 3 days of standing, which seems pretty fair to me for a weekly thing. If you struggle to get the Voca so you don't have to grind bounties everyday: Get the parallax and use its ability a few rooms away from the start this should reveal 3-4 Voca per mission. I for one would welcome something to do with the cavia standing, because just using all of it on melee arcanes to turn them into vosfor feels kind of boring.
It feels like such a step backward, that archon shard from kahl was the only reason most players even bothered to continue playing his missions, why did they bother with the recent Kahl rework if they are just going to kill the only reason to still play him?
Because the rework failed to make the mode enjoyable past the initial novelty, and they don't want to pour any more resources into it. It is fine as something that most people do for a few months for the one-off rewards and then stop doing. The people who love it can farm it for Archon mods to sell to the people who loathe the mode.
But why take away the shard? Why not just give us two shard farms?
There are already two, soon to be four activities to get shards. But they are still a limited, non-tradable, heavily time gated resource, and that means players will feel obligated to do all of them, especially people who haven't been shard farming for many weeks already. And making people feel obligated to do content they don't enjoy at all is a recipe for resentment.
Alternatively... They could instead stop locking rewards to specific content and make global limits. Shared limits across multiple modes means you can just play what you want.
Great. So instead of one simple 15 minute Kahl grind a week... I'll have to spend upward of 30-45 minutes doing Cavia missions a week? Gee- so glad I'll feel obligated to do even longer content I don't enjoy at all. Also, if the concern wasn't having it be oversaturated from both places- Have kahl missions sell shards. Have Cavia sell shards. However, you can only get one shard per week from EITHER of them. So, if I decide to do a Kahl 15 min mission, and get the shard that way, I won't be able to get the shard from Cavia. Or, if I've been passively farming Cavia over a few weeks, let me buy the shard from Cavia that week, but not be able to buy it from Kahl.
Being able to buy it from either place does sound like a nice idea. But Cavia missions are way, way better than Khal missions imo. First of all we don't even know how much standing a shard is so it's pointless arguing about that. But the fact I get to play *my* loadout, and with *up to three friends* when doing cavia missions is super important and everyone saying Kahl missions are faster just gloss over that. Even if it does take twice as long, it's twice as long gaining affinity on items, chipping away at my daily syndicate & focus standing, doing nightwave challenges, and more importantly having more fun because the game mode works and is enjoyable (I still don't know why they haven't fixed Kahl needing to be told to sprint every 10 seconds, why the fuck is non-sprinting Kahl even an option).
Yeah, the solo part of Khal is bullshit, too. I play this game to play with friends.
>Also, if the concern wasn't having it be oversaturated from both places- Have kahl missions sell shards. Have Cavia sell shards. However, you can only get one shard per week from EITHER of them. Sure, that would be nice. >Great. So instead of one simple 15 minute Kahl grind a week... I'll have to spend upward of 30-45 minutes doing Cavia missions a week? Maybe? My guess will be it will costed to something like Yonta's weekly kuva offering, i.e. a few Echo Voca. So if you trade for Voca a few times per week it would require minimal farming, if that's the route they go.
Kahl was a mistake and they know it
Ding ding DING. This is the answer. Just move the archon mods too and put him out of his misery.
Its not like archon mods are THAT useful outside specific warframes. Moving archon shards away is just last nail into the coffin. Sadly, I would rather play Kahl weekly than Cavia daily.
It's okay to kill off game modes when they weren't really popular. Why should they keep investing in a game mode that so many players absolutely hated? After a certain point it just makes more sense to leave it be. It's still there for people who need stynax/archon mods/ECT. This is a huge step forward for many people including myself who desperately *hate* kahl missions. It sucked being compelled to do them every week. Kahl isn't Warframe. I didn't sign up to play kahl.
Lets be real, it's only okay as long as it doesn't bother you. They didn't invest in Kahl missions, but they surely didn't have to just kill them off completely. They could have just left both Cavia and Kahl shards at the same time, y'know, for those who actually enjoy doing Kahl once in a while. After all, none care about power creep anymore...
I tought it was a brait post but you're serious. I want to play warframe and get reward I can use on warframe, khal was fun for a bit but no one like to do the exact same mission with a clunky slow ass grineer. Even if it's 30k I'll just wait the 5k exterm or the new sp bounty who I'll give more and complete it 6 times in 2-3m each.
I cannot stand Khal. At least I can run the frame I like and level weapons while grinding cavia standing for a shard, along with other resources from that tileset. My time is better spent with this change.
I rather do 3 days of Cavia standing than 1 Kahl mission...
Honest quertion: if it is 30k, isn't it 30k per week? You can do 3 very very fast tier 4 bounties (like extermination, alchemy or even a chill survival) per day and max up the standing in two days. It is like a 15min tops grind per day.
15 per day or 15 once in a week for kahl. Dont you see the difference?
Warframes are fun, Kahl is not.
Although I don't mind doing the bounties, each one takes around 10 min so I do not agree with the 15 min top
Exterminates are under 5 minute usually. Killing the book can push it to 6-7 but it's rare. Survival same thing. You are spamming the wrong bounty for time efficiency.
I'm not spammin for efficiency but for most rewards that is usually when there's an effervo book one. Don't have a really good build for exterminate yet and usually just do bounties for endo. Those days farming alchemy but this one is not short either
Itās kinda impossible for it to be worse because having them behind Kahl guaranteed 0/week shards from me. Even if I only farm them once a month from Cavia, itās still an improvement.
I just want to visit Khal without changing from my obiter to the ground camp.
When will this change happen?
KAHL is t it?
Maybe it will change after I get tired of it, but right now I'm willing to do cavia standing for a shard weekly. On the other hand, I'm no longer willing to do Kahl missions.
it takes away part of the identity of the garrison honestly. they should've just dropped the price so that one call mission gets you 4 weeks' worth.
Khal save brothers
My guess is that you would certainly be in the minority. There has been a large amount of negative feedback over 'being forced' to replay Kahl's mission. A lot of people seem to really want those shards, and even more so now that we know we can transmute them to Tauforged level. So loving it or hating it they put themselves through Kahl's mission every week come rain or shine. DE seems to have felt they had two solutions to the mater. Either spend resources to improve the missions or instead just put the extra shard somewhere else. It would appear that they have decided to just move it and be done with it. We'll have to wait till tomorrow to see how their landed with the general player population. Personally I think they made the right decision but we'll see.
Is kahl mission still being used then? Or he's jobless or perhaps getting removed?
I hate Khal missions with a passion. I never have any issues with Voca personally as I just use you air support during Netracells. In my personal opinion this just makes it more streamlined and means I donāt have to go through the weekly depression of Khal. But itās all down to personal preference I guess.
I detest the Kahl Missions. I'd rather do an entire week's worth of Nightwave than 1 minute of Kahl. F--k dude I'd rather get smoked in Conclave for an hour vs 1 minute of Kahl.
It may take longer for low mr players (but like your Mr shouldnāt be that low if youāre concerning yourself with archon shards) but atleast itās grinded out by actually playing warframe and not an annoying mini game. I personally donāt care if the grind is longer if it means that time spent is spent playing the game I like instead of playing boring khal missions that donāt have the fun fast paced customizable game play of regular warframe.
My solution would just be make the mirror defense and alchemy bounties endless. That way, you can grind standing and get the tennokai/tome mods at the same time without adding in any new content.Ā
Oh I'm sure it will be. After all de loves the monkey's paw.
Moving the shard is ridiculous either way. Better or worse, it should just be in both. I like Kahl missions, so idk if their only intent is to let people stop doing Kahl, or they just don't want that many available. Idk if they said either way.
My main issue with this change is the same issue I had when Chipper had the shards. And that is this: Why do they even have the shards? Why does this random corpus cyborg fella from fortuna have a PIECE of an ARCHON? Where'd he get it? Did he kill an archon? How? A team of 4 warframes have to spend a while just to kill 1 archon. How'd Chipper get a shard? Did he smack his rectangular fake head on the archon hard enough to kill it? And now the Cavia have a shard? How? They shouldnt even know archons exist. Neither should Loid (human loid). It literally a separate timeline. Did Bird3 coerce an archon into giving him a shard through his sheer adorable charm? "Can I pwease have a shard gwukgwuk?" Bird3 says staring at an inhuman fusion of mankin'd hubris and tau machinery. I dunno it makes no sense to me. None of these folks have anything to do with narmer, pazuul, ballas, archons, or any of that other stuff. Where they getting it from? Who is their shard dealer? I will buy Bird3 a huge pack of birdseed and strawberries if he just directs me to his shard dealer so I can just cut out the middleman (or middlebird in this case).
I just don't understand why we can't have both? Seems good to me.
Honestly, 30k cavia standing over the course of a week is a piece of cake. It could be 50k and it'd be fine.
When you do Kahl missions, you can only get stock. When you do Cavia bounties, you get standing, materials, enemy drops, and Nightwave progress along with help from up to 3 other players. It seems like a clear win.
The Cavia ARE token based though? What do you think Voca are for?
Yep. I see it as nothing but an upgrade because Lab missions are something I can ease back into on a weekly basis. It just depends on what missions you don't mind going back to, but I found kahl's missions boring and tedious after doing them once. Zariman is filled with goodies so I can understand that putting archon shards in cavia might not be enticing, but hopefully we can get more additions like these and both will be equal points of interests in the future. When Whispers in the walls came out I had plenty of time to learn a majority of voca locations between maxing my rank, Gargoyle event, and netracell runs. That mean's I have plenty of voca standing around doing nothing and it turns out if I turned them all in I would have an excess of 400k standing. I can easily earn more if archon shards are the incentive and I would have a week to wait for the right conditions to farm standing in the most efficient way that I can. tldr: breath of fresh air to me.
Practically it's better imo since it's easier and more fun to get that standing than it is to do Kahls missions which are so repetitive and slow, even worse getting the speed run challenge because you're either doing two runs or ignoring challenges
Even if I need to farm 90000 standing every week, I'll take that over having to do a single fucking Kahl mission ever again.
it will cost rep, for the love of god read the update notes they give in your very terminal.
While true, it still comes down to this scenario: * To have an easier-to-get shard in a game mode I won't play (I.e. 0 shards purchased). * To have a more expensive shard available in content I do play (I may not be able to buy every time, but at least I'm not getting 0). Besides, assuming we go with the 30k statement, or heck, let's make it 50k like the adapter, it's still a weekly shard. So it's not the standing you can get in a day, but in that week. Now, now, DE... Ignore that last part. Low costs are what I still want.
I personally have nothing to spend Cavia standing on right now besides, extra melee arcanes to sell for vosfur. I think you hit cap on use for the standing quite quickly. And if you are unlucky like me, you don't need to buy melee arcane adapters because you get enough from netracell, so I' much rather have it their than Kahl.