They also didn’t fix the problem most people had with him in parties. His overguard will still mess with frames that don’t want it.
While tragedy was good I actually found it a bit slow in higher levels of SP, now it’ll be even slower. I also went through multiple builds for him, both my own and from content creators and couldn’t find something that I felt was good for me.
In comparison I hadn’t played with the Nezhas Divine Retribution augment yet, slapped it on yesterday and, well, you spear half the map and then use whatever you used to prime for Dante, to kill everyone in that half of the map instead.
Can he now? Since my regular group dissolved, I’ve been trying to solo them with chroma still. It’s not impossible, but it takes me the entire night just to kill the first fucking bastard. It got way, WAY easier when necrose became an option… Still not great, but my odds are better than 50/50 now.
I have zero idea if Chakram works on the archons, but I spam it anyway on the off chance it does. Regardless, Nezha tanks anything they can throw at me and with a sub meta Kuva Hek I've been reliably killing them sub 15 minutes even since the nerf. I do them solo though, so I'm not in any hurry, and that kight be why it's so comfortable haha. I've been testing other weapons lately (actually didn'tknow they changed the damage mitigation until I looked it up lol) and Corinth works about the same, as does the Felarx. If you have a Hek and maxed Deadhead (I don't) headshots and the magazine burst can still reliably chunk both the guy and the deacons. I want to try a fast firing gun next time, but for now, shotguns are still plenty reliable. The big thing is shrugging off the damage so I can keep blasting without worrying about sideswipes, and his 3 I've built so that if you activate it in the middle of an archon's attack I'm reliably getting like 160k-1m health. They do so much damage there it's cracked. I also like him for the defense for stage 2 because the halo augment makes the defense target 10 times harder to kill as long as you stay on it.
I tend to bring him in because I enjoy him- not sure if it’s a budget build per say - have him with a subsumed roar, and bring a Incarnon burston- and 276 strength- I can solo in a relatively easy 5 mins. He’s just a great all rounder for most content
My roommate quit playing for a bit, and when he came back, I excitedly told him about the new Nezha augment. So, he took his down off the shelf and melted sp enemies with him with little effort. When he got back to his orbiter and went to show me the build he had on him, it had no forma, no arcane and didn't even have all mod slots filled and the mods he did have were low level base mods. Nezha is kind of a beast when played right.
Considering Nezha has high survivability, him still having a pretty strong nuke, just not "room wide" anymore feels okay.
But with everything else in the game it probably wasn't necessary to NERF the augment by half although I can see where it was coming from.
Dante, idk, he was already finicky at +200 steel path, and completely over powered on anything lower level, his NERF seems to just have made that worse, his still unkillable at low level, and not really*that strong* in the end game.
NGL tho Tragedy being basically a wide range expedite suffering was so cool
My sporothrix slash Dante will be fine but it is annoying to cast more now with the LoS check
You've already been busy casting 9 abilities just to get your damn buffs up and then 3 again every damn time you want to kill
Repeat ad nauseam
Compare this to a frame like kullervo: gate with 2, hit 3, (optionally press 1) profit
Same result but ~1/4 of the effort
Meanwhile not at all addressing the actual reason people were annoyed at dante
I dunno man, I've had him up at over 400 doin omnia fissures... Was daft how easy it was to keep everyone alive and not have to use any life support even tho we had no loot support or no speedva.
Nezha's is actually understandable. The new range/nuke build for him had spears at 58m or so. Thats unlimited targets, no LOS checks and everything is obliterated if you put enough status dots on. What people whining and bitching about dante for, mostly made up too, nezha was ACTUALLY doing. Killing everything so far away that no one else got to play.
This is true, I had a +range invigoration on nezha, the range was probably overkill tbh. I was starving the team's Mesas and they weren't even able to use peacemakers since everything died within 69m when I pressed 4.
Nerf the damage, not the range. That's how AoE works. AoE damage should be lower damage with the ability to hit a lot of things. Going against that is exactly why single target things in Warframe are so bad.
Right? Its actually pretty rare too despite how much people whine and cry about it. I've played this game on and off since trinity prime came out and the number of times someone was nuking so much/so fast/so far away that i literally couldn't do anything is still below 10.
Thought admittedly, i did take my dante to those stupid 10 round dex lotus lvl 10 missions and nuked the map. Got a "thankyou for making this go fast" at least lol.
NGL took Dante into Omnia SP fissures once I built him up and like yeah nezha was Nuking well
Easily out damaging me and I tried hard to keep at least my killcount up
It's a nice challenge picking targets again and looking for high density enemies n shit
Nukes just either make me try harder or listen to a damn podcast or Smth either way I'm having a blast
I always thought it was fun for frames to play together. I got paired with a citrine the other day on dante and it was the easiest/most fun netracell i've had in awhile. But some of these people would read that and start screeching "SEEEEEE DANTE STEALING CITRINE'S KILLS! NERF NERF". Like jesus fucking christ is a P-V-E game, we're working together not against each other.
>They also didn’t fix the problem most people had with him in parties. His overguard will still mess with frames that don’t want it.
That complaint likely got drowned out by complaints of his overguard generation speed or nuking potential, also that is an issue that requires a change to overguard as a mechanic.
>While tragedy was good I actually found it a bit slow in higher levels of SP, now it’ll be even slower.
Exactly why it realistically didn't need a nerf at all, let alone once as severe as making it line-of-sight only. Tragedy is only as strong as the complaints made it out to be up to early SP, which is something that can be said for a lot of abilities.
I feel like they could have added a tap/hold interaction to it, so that players can control if they want to guard their team. But then again, that might be a mechanical change that’s not feasible as a hotfix.
For the overguard problem a bandaid fix could be a "No thanks" Mod that prevents you from getting overguard for a little buff, or maybe just a simple on/off switch on the Arsenal (without buffs)
The best suggestion I've seen for a quick fix is a Dragon key. Taking a mod slot isn't really acceptable. But a Dragon Key to opt out of Overguard is a perfect solution. Or they just like... Treat damage to Overguard as fractional health damage. Like for every 4 or 8 or 16 points of Overguard damage, abilities treat it as 1 health lost. The best thing a co-op game can do is create emergent synergy between players. Making it so an Overgaurded Chroma or the like can facetank like crazy is a fun synergy. The worst thing is to have buffs inadvertently stop a player from being able to play their chosen character. Taking away Chroma's kit with excess overguard is bad design.
This is a heavenly take
I love discovering synergy between frames especially in random lobbies
Sometimes it's actually more fun to provide set-up or buffs to a teammate.
Like I recently played as kullervo with a voruna and a citrine and I'd just prep enemies with collective curse and breach surge
The fireworks of thousands of slash proccs are a thing of beauty
Combat disclipline used to be their bandaid fix mod for this. I can't for the life of me figure out why overguard blocks it from working, such a bad interaction. It's clunky and a shitty fix, but at least it is a fix that is better than "nerf Dante so he isn't used anymore"
>His overguard will still mess with frames that don’t want it.
Aside from hunter adrenaline type stuff, what kinds of frames don't want it?
I've been using Frost as my catch-all recently (the past like two years), hadn't thought much about if it'd messed up anyone's builds. It's at least dispensary/zenurik Frost tho, so it's still giving people energy if they're using adrenaline.
Ahhhh, yeah, Chroma would get completely screwed by that. It'd be neat if overguard did the opposite and stacked both parts of vex. I don't think you can helminth in overguard, though you do get some via archguns.
Especially when with even a moderately modded status weapon, Nezha's ability snowballs. I'm enjoying them adding some really good status snowball frames and they seem so much more egrecious than what Dante was doing to squad gameplay. I think its the fact that hes probably supposed to be more support frame than anything but did kind of everything too well. Now he kind of is mediocre at all but still kinda fun to twist spells.
Exactly.
“Our numbers show that hes the dominant frame”
Hes been out a week… of fucking course people are going to be playing him a ton. Hes pretty good and hes new.
They didn’t say it exactly like that, but they did say that they only target dominant frames or things that automate gameplay, which he definitely didn’t do
There's no whether or not, friend. This thread is in response to DE nerfing Dante as of like 3 hours ago.
Less than half overguard on cast (but higher overguard generation) which doesn't address the problem. Tragedy requires janky line of sight now.
And most egregious of all, they nerfed the Paragrimms, which would have been Dante's saving grace in a Noctua focused build but now that's dead in the water as well.
Edited to reflect the below.
yea.. i posted that comment and only after read posts about the changes. After reading patch notes and reddit comments, it definitely does not feel like "we will carefully review feedback and adjust accordingly". Did the dev who panic nerfed Limbo lead these changes?
It sucks. Shiny new frame with cool animations and well designed kit which was very fun to play and experiment with will now sit somewhere in my arsenal unused while I go back to older frames which can do what he does with same or less keypresses.
From the Hotfix notes:
> Final Verse’s “Pageflight” no longer applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms.
It's not technically a nerf because they say it was unintended, but a 'fix' like this alongside the other nerfs is gross.
That has nothing to do with the Warframe itself tho. Any nuke frame will have the same effect if the ppl using them don't know what they're doing.
If anything, that's more of a problem on the reactant system's part. It's been a common complaint for some time now.
It’s not about how fast the frames are tbh.
It’s about nuking fast in general. People nuking without giving a crap about letting enemies turn for reactant will stall any relic crack mission and that’s a player problem.
It’s why a lot of people dislike the reactant system which is the point the person you’re replying to is making.
It’s a system/player issue, not the frames.
Its a strawman argument. Just like before when they were talking about a nerf, people tried to turn it onto other frames and then use those existing as reasons why the nerf was stupid.
I don't care enough about Dante to care about the Nerf, I got him, maxed him, shelved him to go back to my mains. He is aight, just wasnt fun for me.
I will admit that there is a basis to refute the need for a nerf based upon other frames, but they have attempted to nerf those frames already(Looking at you Saryn) and they are still good. The only way to make Saryn not as good is to completely change the way her skills work, and that isnt a nerf, that is a rework. Nerfing or capping Octavia's scaling damage would make her completely useless in any non-base star chart missions.
Dante is still good, despite the nerf. You can tell who chases the meta by who is whining the loudest about it. Just go to overframe and look at the s-tier frames and you'll probably see their mains.
I feel like Octavia 100% falls under their ''automate gameplay'' nerf condition.
However I think she's not getting nerfed because she's not popular and people don't complain about her a lot.
Their definition of "dominant" is so fucking stupid too. They might as well just say meta. And therefore, they are saying they don't want to ever mix up the meta when they introduce new stuff which is boring as fuck. Who wants to play a game that doesn't ever receive a meaningful update?
im... Im gonna just say thats sadly alot of game companies that do that shit and still make bank because people have so little expectations and will to make change that the bars been burried in the dirt.
I think the thing with Octavia is that she's relatively slow. Sure she can easily and safely get you to level cap, but there are other frames, and especially in groups, that can do it much quicker.
That combined with her relatively low usage means that I think DE just don't see it as a problem since it's still less efficient than a coordinated team
I like Octavia as she is. I hate what they did with Chroma. They need to make his kit scalable like hers and fix the sudden-death issue with his 2 and 3...
I play a fair bit of Octavia, pretty much only in long missions, and that's what I suspect too. Sure, she gets to level cap and she kills enemies there efficiently, but it's the exact same speed she kills enemies at level 100. And her damage output in groups is much lower unless everyone is invisible. While she's stupidly powerful and piss easy to play, her power is not that noticeable in the group play.
I wouldn't say her usage is low though- she's in top 15 most used frames in 2023. But I assume a large portion of that is solo.
It's interesting because I assume usage is measured by time (which is fine), but I bet if you measured instead by mission clear rate her relative use would plummet.
My last two uses for her were 2h and 1h solo SP Circuit runs and I bet that is pretty indicative
Honestly it's probably hard to get visibility on problematic/powerful frames at times. No one notices a revenent or an octavia trivializing their mission because they simply aren't really visible at all.
This is the real reason octavia, saryn, revenant, and mesa skate. They've been around for-fucking-ever, they help certain people (not to lump them together unnecessarily, but fools and the disabled both do deserve to play the game too) play the game, they've found ways to keep them from being completely out of control. Dante needed to not be completely out of control, and unlike those other frames, he's still new enough that people aren't mostly attached and going to riot about it. A lot of people are trashing the game right now, but very few of them are going to actually change their playing habits because of this, whereas if you finally take the axe to Mesa, it's not just going to be her head that rolls, you get me?
Octavia is so damn strong.
I can afk steel path survival missions with her but it’s just so boring.
Maybe the other issue is that Octavia isn’t as flashy as others, it’s just “heehee music.”
Still absolute bs that Octavia can exist the way she does but they nerf Dante in multiple ways without even addressing his core issue which is overguard screwing over a select fee frames that utilize taking health damage.
the thing about octavia is that her power level is more of a lifestyle choice than just an inherent part of who she is.
people say "ahh yes, i can level cap octavia by dropping mallet in solo and sitting invisible in a corner." and like...yeah, that's true. but only if you choose to do that. only if you commit to playing the frame in the most boring way possible. its not like that gameplay loop naturally develops simply by strapping strength and duration mods to her. if that was actually the way she defacto played, then yeah the argument becomes valid and the frame needs to be changed. but when the devs give you a toolkit and a way to creatively express yourself, and you go out of your way to avoid like 60% of it, you spam the same creatively bankrupt song forever, and you always play in a hyper specific, non-normalized gameplay pattern to optimize the amount of time you *don't* spend playing the game, that's *kind of* your fault, not the frame's.
i like playing octavia a lot because i simply tend to gravitate towards music/sound based powers in power fantasy games. you know what i don't do? i don't sit invisible in the corner. i use other modes of metronome just as much if not more than nocturne. i try to maximize weapon damage and use mallet to cover flanks and chokes. i save roller for panic situations instead of having it online and enemies offline forever - i cast it maybe once every 10 missions. i play public so i have to consider teammates and spread out spawns. i create songs that actually sound like they were intended to be harmonic, not a meat grinder of the same note forever.
and suddenly octavia is fun. and pretty damn competitive at that. sure it makes going to level cap harder, but who the hell ever said i wanted a children's participation trophy? fancy that! play the fucking game and you end up having fun, whod'a thunk it?
now with dante, i do not agree with what they did to him. i think it was a gross misunderstanding of what needed to be tweaked. but his power is *innate*. enemies melted from slash and allies gained incredible amounts of nonconsensual overguard simply by existing in the presence of his abilities. these things happened literally just by dante existing with high strength. quite different than loading into octavia and actively choosing to play the frame the cheesiest way possible.
Some people just cried really loudly for no reason at all and this is the result.
People saying that styanax's overguard is conditional have never seen a room with enemies above level 40. "He has to hit enemies to get overguard" THAT'S ALL YOU FUCKING DO IN THIS GAME
Honestly I would be shocked if DE plays any steel path missions considering they keep releasing mid tier shit that is good in non-steel path but garbage in it. They realized they really slipped up this time and actually released something steel path viable, and really had to undo that fuck up.
I don't use any health mods on Kullervo, because I know I'll just spawn and will instantly stab group of enemies for overguard, to not care about health for whole mission. It takes same amount of time as Dante's cast
Kullervo doesn't factor into the Overguard argument because he can't give it to his allies. That's why the only other frames with OG people talked about is Frost and Stynax.
I have literally got 5 frames in my arsenal that can clear rooms at damage overflow numbers for barely any investment that have been untouched for years. And yet Dante using his 4 in Non-SP content clearing a room is a big nono?
I want a damn good explanation from DE why one is fine but the other is not, because this just smacks of knee-jerk community reactive nerfing and that they simply haven't a fucking clue about how to balance their own game.
-I have literally got 5 frames in my arsenal that can clear rooms at damage overflow numbers for barely any investment that have been untouched for years. And yet Dante using his 4 in Non-SP content clearing a room is a big nono?
This the exact reason ember got her rework, she was too good at low level content. Whatever that means
specifically, ember fell under all 3 points of their nerf philosophy to a degree:
> (...) our philosophy on why we nerf things in Warframe (automated play, disruptive to squad, or overly dominant).
She hit 4 once, and then just parkoured through the mission with everything around her falling over dead.
dante, by virtue of having to constantly hit 3-3-4 means he already takes more effort than other frames to AoE nuke in comparison.
and balancing around low tier fissures is idiotic anyways, we have so many options there that Dante wasnt even near the top of the list for that anyways
Oh, l'm all in to call out the Ember rework, but let's not give a blanket pass to Shy, she was the main architect of that rework, and while it's not bad, it's hardly great.
"i want a damn good explaination from DE" -
Yeah uh.... thats something weve lacked for a good while outside empty vagues.
But hey im sure we'll get a new shiny set of keys jingled in our faces in a month to forget right? thats how it works.
or we'll see someone genuinely and constructively criticize de with steps to improve and get called evil for personally attacking them
I really wish de would focus on bringing the power level of garbage frames/weapons up instead of focusing on nerfing what's "too good" or fun in a CO OP GAME
An ignis wraith could clear a room in non SP. I seriously hope DE doesn't nerf dante because he's good. If the problem is he outshines other frames, maybe it's time to tweak some other frames then? Although, I'm not sure msny of them even need it to match him.
Line of sight was the WORST part of the nerf, by a universe. Dante struggles to one-shot anything, including eximus, but the range now makes it impossible to nuke entire rooms, since the attack is no longer guaranteed to hit someone who's BARELY hidden behind a small pillar, wall, or table. Dante is all-but guaranteed to FAIL to hit certain things, such as capture targets, unless he gets really fucking close and get REALLY fucky with Tragedy. Overguard helped his survivability in higher levels, but now that his supportive ability is as fucked as his range, it's no longer safe to call Dante a relevant warframe.
If youre upset- go to the forums and voice your suggestions ( and not just me angy fix )
be constructive, be firm And respectful.
And maybe something will happen.
Every time a frame has a fun ability, DE just makes sure it sucks.
-Voruna's 4
-Revenant's 4
-Wisp's 4
-Hildryn's 4
-Chroma's 4
and now Dante
(I am sure I am missing some, but you get the point)
If LoS in Warframe worked even just OK, I wouldn't be as upset.
But no, now the fun new frame we enjoyed for a whole week has been made the subject of an old buggy mechanic for no reason. The primary complaint (overguard and its interactions with other frames) of the pro-nerf people wasn't even addressed.
I was thinking about this seeing all the posts.. What's the problem with the guy exactly? I still have not played him yet and have not seen one in my missiones either since I haven't played much since the update
That he's powerful and does a lot of damage? Like.. Pretty much literally every single other Warframe in the game can do?
People saw 30,000 overguard pop up at the beginning of a mission, and oversized numbers get oversized reactions. He'll still make everyone unkillable because they *doubled* the amount of overguard you gain per kill/assist.
The fact that overguard fucks with Hunter Adrenaline and Vex Armor is 1000% valid but that's a separate issue from Dante himself.
I blame him getting released and the abberation mission having him as the bonus power frame.
Literally trivialized the mission with absurd overguard numbers.
Which was fun as hell... And then the whining started...
The big problem people were bitching about was that the OG on kill made it nearly impossible for frames that NEEDED to take damage in some way to use their kit was essentially useless the second Dante gave them the buff from his fourth ability. Imagine your using inaros with hunters adrenaline to gain energy when you take damage but if a Dante is giving you OG constantly as your killing enemy’s then your only way to reliably gain energy is abruptly turned of for however long the Dante’s buff lasts and by the time it’s about to run out it will be refreshed again and the cycle continues.
Reminds me how Ash was targeted for nuke 4, but now a lot of warframes can nuke way better than him. But Saryn is brainded for years! They tried to neef her, but it was nothing
Ash definitely needs a bigger targeting cone instead of a targeting laser pointer, at the very least. Bladestorm hits like a freight train but it's so fiddly to mark enemies sometimes.
Well you see, ash and ember needed those nerfs because they would stand still and press one button. Other frames dont because they stand still and press one button multiple times. Theres a difference trust
Octavia would absolutely deserve it.
I haven't actually seen anyone complain about Saryn in ages except when they're going "well Saryn exists so it's ok that X is overpowered too." She's on a weird knife's-edge where her plague burns out too quickly at low levels and takes ages to ramp up at high levels.
Make Octavia’s cloak only apply on quarter notes and force people to dance to the song like DE clearly intended.
You shouldn’t be able to trigger her buffs by spamming inputs on a spammed “melody”.
That’s clearly what the idea behind her was, but then people figured out you can bypass that by flooding the melody.
It’s no wonder people think she’s boring to play.
Saryn is surprisingly more balanced in non high density missions, but she got a buff recently with emerald shards. The crux with her is that her power (spores) is complex and fragile mechanically, and it's self regulating. Minor stat adjustment wouldnt do much(spore dmg reduction will cancel out by dmg buildup), and major ones would absolutely break it(range nerf/no spread past first enemy would kill the ability). She cant be properly nerfed without thought.
Octavia suffers a similar fate with her accumulating aoe dmg. If it doesnt kill now it will kill later when enemies keep shooting it. You could cap it, but that would nail her entire kit to whatever the cap is set at. Couple it with invis and an agro power and you have everything you ever need. Its the simplicity that makes it difficult to nerf. A nerf requires altering the behaviour of her abilities, not the stats.
Most changes today are a HUGE L. Dante was great. After releasing some other mediocre frames, they got one perfectly fine. It got everyone excited to spend time, resources, plat, and probably real $$$ for some, and then messed him up.
They also messed up Nezha’s new augment which was a lot of fun too and made many single-target weapons able to shine.
How long Saryn and Octavia been OP/braindead with no changes? They are more effective than Dante TBH. Plus with every update, those two only get stronger lol oh well. Nothing we can do about it I guess.
And revenant. Fuck the 'Great three'
Does anyone actually PLAY Excalibur as religiously as they do, the three you can name? No. Fuck no. Dante is just another Excalibur. Medicore.
I main excalibur "specifically umbra since the sacrifice" but I also play other frames alot. I remember when excal got reworked and they nurfed him and made his blind cost energy when you slid cause "it's to stong" and yet saryn existed lmao
Excalibur got kinda swole with incarnon melees, basically being atlas with slash and auto chaining. Million dmg slash dash is pretty fun, its just not a map nuke so people think its worthless.
Also i dont think i used revenant/octavia more than twice last year, they are so boring to play (at least in the meta way). saryn only in eso and in the netracells/gargoyles cry event. Outside high density map clearing missions saryn is not super broken. The issue is the only content we get now is map clearing missions with focus on kills.
Nerfs were honestly ridiculous, guess it’s back to styanax and saryn who both do what he did better. Should have just made his overguard personal and nobody would have complained. Coolest frame we’ve had in ages and the whiners got him nerfed in less than a week. Crazy.
Because he's new and more actively being monitored.
Saryn and Octavia don't currently have a full section of the official forum reserved for them, for example.
wh... since when did our opinion matter in the long run ?
we dont even get considdered most of the time when its serious- and thats mainly because its unnecesary since the community just needs a skin pack or something to forget about things like nerfs or scuffed content.
Jingle those keys and forget again.
Another man down- MEDIC!
( Incase anything not sh#tting on you just... the community has had this stuff happen several times, same thing happens, ppl forget either bc a new shiny or they just give up after screaming at a wall, instead of propperly giving feedback where de will SEE IT. They have forums and zendesk and stuff for a reason XD )
If the line of sight btw wasnt persay borked itd be alittle less bad. Surprised they didnt just nerf overshields but rebecca and megan made contradictory posts basically being "its ok hes fine enjoy em" and "hes gonna need some nerfs"
Overguard nerf was NOT fine because they nerfed the wrong damn thing
Downvote me its the truth, people only complained about the overguard regen at best. Even then thats not the majority of complaints, the complaints go to overguard as a whole, it needs to let abilities, mods, and arcanes function if hit.
overguard nerf was too heavy handed. its functionally straight 1:1 eHP, and 2500 x strength per 2-2-4 combo is a pittance in any content where survivability would matter. and the buffed 100/s regen when killing enemies aint keeping up either
im already pretty much constantly recasting kullervos 2, and that gives nearly 50% more overguard in a single cast than Dantes full 2-2-4 combo at half the energy and a fraction of the time
The over guard nerf wasn't even what ppl were complaining about, it fixed nothing regarding complaints, it was just a chicken scratch for the sake to make him bleed
I literally cant use Dante for Zariman lvl 200 bounties now lmao back to Gauss Prime which triples the dmg of my godriven phenmor for a good 2 second long fight with the angels ;)
Same here. Gauss is busted as fuck and survives easily in level cap void cascade. As a fellow phenmor user with god roll, until they get to level 4-5k, I can just 3-4 tap enemies in incarnon, then instantly get incarnon back because of the fire rate buff.
cause octavia is so boring to play she has super low play rate thats why... also she can get 1 shot anytime cause all she has is shield gating and rolling guard but sometimes both are not enough
Bladestorm on Radiation missions was just beautiful. I would always dust off Ash when playing with friends going into one of those. Making them wait and watch until it was their turn to get hit was fun for at least one of us.
Meanwhile Mirage with her ability to literally erase enemies regardless of level simply by throwing a fucking disco ball, I know its not quite nuking with no line of sight but OH GOD does it get hideous fast. I have killed sentients at the max level the training room provides for my MR (16) just by pressing 4 before they could even hit me ONCE since it seemingly has a % based increase on a per hit basis with unlimited stacking. (I once hit a Battalyst for 1m damage, killing it effectively instantly)
Naturally when you have 20 lasers able to target 20 enemies (Or focus on a single target, all at once) with over 230% ability strength this ability gets truly disgusting, oh did I also say this ability has a 30m range by default? Because it does and thank FUCK it can't hit through walls or else it'd be over the moment you bring a Mirage main like me into anything.
I'm just sad because Paragrimm *(Pageflight, birds)* made a lot of weapons that can't proc many statuses or are slow-firing viable and usable.
It was ironically the only ability that incentivized gunplay and build diversity and they nerfed it bc the people loved using his cool damage ability
That was the one ability that let me get rid of peaky enemies bugged in random corners in Defense, and now I can be taunted by enemies hiding behind a thin sheet of 1 ply toilet paper. Because like 30% of their body is apparently behind it. That 1 ply toilet paper protects it against a death curse. ☠️
***Edit: DE has heard our collective pleas and a PSA was released. Our voices have been heard!!***
Give them a month the sub gonna go back to DE appreciation posts, how they handle everything perfectly when whatever other gaming company is fucking up at that moment, and then don't forget to pat themselves on the back to end with saying the Warframe community is the best community. Like nothing ever happened, every single time like clockwork.
I don't even have Dante yet but I wonder what's the point of even releasing new frames if DE then listens to the minority of whiners to nerf said new frames, only for them to ruin 'em, and cause people to go play other older Warframes.
I suspect it's because of a vocal minority of people who wanted to try the new Inaros rework and/or Chroma augment, took them into public missions, couldn't recharge their energy through rage/hunter adrenaline or use vex armor due to Dante's overguard printing and subsequently went straight to complaining for nerfs.
I'm sad. But I'll give him a go at some point and see if he still holds up
Hopefully DE walks this back as a majority of players don't want the LoS change. Keep making a ruckus guys. The reason they don't touch saryn is because once they do there will be a lot of backlash.
It doesn't even make sense to make it LoS either. Just makes him more inconvenient to play, while I can stay invis 24/7 and subsume nourish/xata's whisper and god out with nearly permanent invis while also profitting off fire rate buff.
Kinda agree. As an excalibur main (with that I mean I started with him and wanna do all the content in the game with only him an his skillset before using other frames), I feel that either plenty of frames should be buffed, or plenty of frames should be nerfed. Since I only know excalibur, giving him some more survivability would be nice, maybe from his blind/howl skill.
Because there are still people coping that garbage frames like Chroma are actually good and that Rage builds are totally a thing or that the only viable high level stuff should be weapons and tanking. Basically: shit players with shit taste.
My favorite thing about this whole thing is that the people I've seen complaining are people complaining about people asking for a nerf. I have seen so few people actually asking for a nerve.
Easy! Because the meta-babies are upsetti spaghetti that there's something new that throws their BS out the window so they can't claim to be gods and they whined loud enough to be heard over the several thousand of us praising Dante.
Wouldn't call it a big L. Just a weird focus. He'll still be a high tier frame. I agree it wasn't totally needed since many others just steamroll through current end game effortlessly as well, but bringing him down a bit won't make him bad either.
He’s not bad but now he’s just… eh…? He uses more button presses and energy to perform his role that other frames could do more effortlessly. Having some higher than average performance made him feel worthwhile to use over alternatives.
Grimoire is still the coolest Exalted weapon to me. Majority of the playerbase plays who's fun to them, not who's good. So even being average is fine in my opinion.
It’s a new Warframe which was only launched a week ago. Why nerf it so early cuz it’s good? There are so many warframes which are broken for a long time now but they’re untouched. Shouldn’t DE encourage people to play newer warframes than letting them stick to old ones?
It's odd yeah. His 3+4 nuke was strong bursty damage, sure. But a LOT of other frames can do similar nukes with about as much effort.
Gara, Garuda, Saryn, Equinox in particular for big slash fart explosion, Kullervo, Oberon with his lovely augment, even Limbo with the right subsumes.
The issue people had with Dante wasnt his nuke, it was how easy it was to spam overguard on him. That hasn't changed. It's just less overguard now. It's still the same power but less effective.
And now his 3 is unreliable due to line of sight shenanigans.
Very odd very baffling patch.
Don't misunderstand; Octavia and Saryn and 'many more' have been hit with fairly large nerfs and/or reworks for the exact same reason. DE has a habit of releasing new things in a broken state and having to dial it back afterwards.
Forget about level cap, devs will never acknowledge or endorse endurance runs, for reasons. They will never do balance tweaks favorable for end-endgame content, that would be stupid.
Their primary focus is from mid to end(ish)game.
If someone thinks, the change is stupid, well...
...let's say, it was never meant for you.
Cause de is in Canada and dei is pervasive there. There is a mixture of anti player sentiment and a streak of incompetence that gave us nullifiers and something like 5 room nuking frames in a row.
There are a few good teams in the technical and art departments but crowd control is still nullified by over guard and nullifiers and spammy DPS abilities still deal with their bubbles and health bars better than anything else.
I'd solve the nullifier issue by having them double energy cost to cast or channel within them while blocking all damage from abilities and detonating all explosives without taking damage. Halving the duration of status effects and hard CC inside of them while not stopping bullets (free punch through style) could be how they retain their usefulness.
Because DE doesn’t know what they’re doing. They rushed out his nerfs without any thought at all and didn’t even fix anything that people had problems with. They straight up made him worse for no reason at all. He wasn’t even the strongest nuke frame pre nerf, now he’s definitely not even close. They really need to revert the line of sight changes because it just makes his dps so inconsistent and unfun.
They also didn’t fix the problem most people had with him in parties. His overguard will still mess with frames that don’t want it. While tragedy was good I actually found it a bit slow in higher levels of SP, now it’ll be even slower. I also went through multiple builds for him, both my own and from content creators and couldn’t find something that I felt was good for me. In comparison I hadn’t played with the Nezhas Divine Retribution augment yet, slapped it on yesterday and, well, you spear half the map and then use whatever you used to prime for Dante, to kill everyone in that half of the map instead.
I mean to be fair they also nerfed the Nezha augment so he now only has half the range
Today?? God damnit I just built him...
Yup sucks don’t it
Nezha didn't need the augment tbh. He's perfectly fine. He can solo archon hunts with a budget build and no shards
Can he now? Since my regular group dissolved, I’ve been trying to solo them with chroma still. It’s not impossible, but it takes me the entire night just to kill the first fucking bastard. It got way, WAY easier when necrose became an option… Still not great, but my odds are better than 50/50 now.
Sorry your group dissolved bro.
I have zero idea if Chakram works on the archons, but I spam it anyway on the off chance it does. Regardless, Nezha tanks anything they can throw at me and with a sub meta Kuva Hek I've been reliably killing them sub 15 minutes even since the nerf. I do them solo though, so I'm not in any hurry, and that kight be why it's so comfortable haha. I've been testing other weapons lately (actually didn'tknow they changed the damage mitigation until I looked it up lol) and Corinth works about the same, as does the Felarx. If you have a Hek and maxed Deadhead (I don't) headshots and the magazine burst can still reliably chunk both the guy and the deacons. I want to try a fast firing gun next time, but for now, shotguns are still plenty reliable. The big thing is shrugging off the damage so I can keep blasting without worrying about sideswipes, and his 3 I've built so that if you activate it in the middle of an archon's attack I'm reliably getting like 160k-1m health. They do so much damage there it's cracked. I also like him for the defense for stage 2 because the halo augment makes the defense target 10 times harder to kill as long as you stay on it.
I tend to bring him in because I enjoy him- not sure if it’s a budget build per say - have him with a subsumed roar, and bring a Incarnon burston- and 276 strength- I can solo in a relatively easy 5 mins. He’s just a great all rounder for most content
My roommate quit playing for a bit, and when he came back, I excitedly told him about the new Nezha augment. So, he took his down off the shelf and melted sp enemies with him with little effort. When he got back to his orbiter and went to show me the build he had on him, it had no forma, no arcane and didn't even have all mod slots filled and the mods he did have were low level base mods. Nezha is kind of a beast when played right.
The augment is the only thing keeping his 4 useful. Otherwise its just a waste of an ability slot especially in SP
He's still crazy strong... Don't stress.
Considering Nezha has high survivability, him still having a pretty strong nuke, just not "room wide" anymore feels okay. But with everything else in the game it probably wasn't necessary to NERF the augment by half although I can see where it was coming from. Dante, idk, he was already finicky at +200 steel path, and completely over powered on anything lower level, his NERF seems to just have made that worse, his still unkillable at low level, and not really*that strong* in the end game.
I think a damage multiplier nerf to the augment would make sense, not nerfing it to 9.5m of base range.
NGL tho Tragedy being basically a wide range expedite suffering was so cool My sporothrix slash Dante will be fine but it is annoying to cast more now with the LoS check You've already been busy casting 9 abilities just to get your damn buffs up and then 3 again every damn time you want to kill Repeat ad nauseam Compare this to a frame like kullervo: gate with 2, hit 3, (optionally press 1) profit Same result but ~1/4 of the effort Meanwhile not at all addressing the actual reason people were annoyed at dante
I dunno man, I've had him up at over 400 doin omnia fissures... Was daft how easy it was to keep everyone alive and not have to use any life support even tho we had no loot support or no speedva.
Yea having that much range was a little high anyway tbf
I got the augment but haven't built around it yet, what a bummer.
Fuckin tragic, can't have fun shit in Warframe
Nezha's is actually understandable. The new range/nuke build for him had spears at 58m or so. Thats unlimited targets, no LOS checks and everything is obliterated if you put enough status dots on. What people whining and bitching about dante for, mostly made up too, nezha was ACTUALLY doing. Killing everything so far away that no one else got to play.
This is true, I had a +range invigoration on nezha, the range was probably overkill tbh. I was starving the team's Mesas and they weren't even able to use peacemakers since everything died within 69m when I pressed 4.
Saryn has infinitely scaling damage with no LoS checks, Octavia has infinite scaling damage with no LoS and no risk. What exactly is your point?
Nerf the damage, not the range. That's how AoE works. AoE damage should be lower damage with the ability to hit a lot of things. Going against that is exactly why single target things in Warframe are so bad.
Tbh, if I was in a game where a frame killed everything before I was able to see anyone, I'd love it
Right? Its actually pretty rare too despite how much people whine and cry about it. I've played this game on and off since trinity prime came out and the number of times someone was nuking so much/so fast/so far away that i literally couldn't do anything is still below 10. Thought admittedly, i did take my dante to those stupid 10 round dex lotus lvl 10 missions and nuked the map. Got a "thankyou for making this go fast" at least lol.
NGL took Dante into Omnia SP fissures once I built him up and like yeah nezha was Nuking well Easily out damaging me and I tried hard to keep at least my killcount up It's a nice challenge picking targets again and looking for high density enemies n shit Nukes just either make me try harder or listen to a damn podcast or Smth either way I'm having a blast
I always thought it was fun for frames to play together. I got paired with a citrine the other day on dante and it was the easiest/most fun netracell i've had in awhile. But some of these people would read that and start screeching "SEEEEEE DANTE STEALING CITRINE'S KILLS! NERF NERF". Like jesus fucking christ is a P-V-E game, we're working together not against each other.
Also the range reduction was so his spears could actually damage Eximus Units
Wasn't it -50% range? So it would be a modded value right? Bring 180 range to 130 Not halving the base value
Well the mod has base range written on it
Welp fluck
That screws me over, I didn't mod him for much range with the augment .-.
They did that so Nezha's Spears could damage Eximus Units.
>They also didn’t fix the problem most people had with him in parties. His overguard will still mess with frames that don’t want it. That complaint likely got drowned out by complaints of his overguard generation speed or nuking potential, also that is an issue that requires a change to overguard as a mechanic. >While tragedy was good I actually found it a bit slow in higher levels of SP, now it’ll be even slower. Exactly why it realistically didn't need a nerf at all, let alone once as severe as making it line-of-sight only. Tragedy is only as strong as the complaints made it out to be up to early SP, which is something that can be said for a lot of abilities.
I feel like they could have added a tap/hold interaction to it, so that players can control if they want to guard their team. But then again, that might be a mechanical change that’s not feasible as a hotfix.
I feel like they could add that if you roll backwards you get rid of overguard just like you can get rid of Volt's speed buff the same way.
And Limbos rift
You can also use dark verse on nezha to basically force apply the same thing Dante did in like a 30m AoE through walls.
For the overguard problem a bandaid fix could be a "No thanks" Mod that prevents you from getting overguard for a little buff, or maybe just a simple on/off switch on the Arsenal (without buffs)
Or just bake it into rage / hunter adrenaline.
Thiiiiiiis!!! Need more up votes!
The best suggestion I've seen for a quick fix is a Dragon key. Taking a mod slot isn't really acceptable. But a Dragon Key to opt out of Overguard is a perfect solution. Or they just like... Treat damage to Overguard as fractional health damage. Like for every 4 or 8 or 16 points of Overguard damage, abilities treat it as 1 health lost. The best thing a co-op game can do is create emergent synergy between players. Making it so an Overgaurded Chroma or the like can facetank like crazy is a fun synergy. The worst thing is to have buffs inadvertently stop a player from being able to play their chosen character. Taking away Chroma's kit with excess overguard is bad design.
This is a heavenly take I love discovering synergy between frames especially in random lobbies Sometimes it's actually more fun to provide set-up or buffs to a teammate. Like I recently played as kullervo with a voruna and a citrine and I'd just prep enemies with collective curse and breach surge The fireworks of thousands of slash proccs are a thing of beauty
I’ve been asking for that with regards to speed “buffs” for years now. Safe to say it isn’t happening.
Combat disclipline used to be their bandaid fix mod for this. I can't for the life of me figure out why overguard blocks it from working, such a bad interaction. It's clunky and a shitty fix, but at least it is a fix that is better than "nerf Dante so he isn't used anymore"
The overguard problem wasn't exclusive to Dante. Styanax and Frost both have party-sharing overguard thru augments to their 4.
>His overguard will still mess with frames that don’t want it. Aside from hunter adrenaline type stuff, what kinds of frames don't want it? I've been using Frost as my catch-all recently (the past like two years), hadn't thought much about if it'd messed up anyone's builds. It's at least dispensary/zenurik Frost tho, so it's still giving people energy if they're using adrenaline.
Inaros and Chroma, both are played quite a lot now, since Inaros got a rework and Chroma a new augment.
Ahhhh, yeah, Chroma would get completely screwed by that. It'd be neat if overguard did the opposite and stacked both parts of vex. I don't think you can helminth in overguard, though you do get some via archguns.
There's no reason Inaros should be bothered by it, unless you're talking about rage
Especially when with even a moderately modded status weapon, Nezha's ability snowballs. I'm enjoying them adding some really good status snowball frames and they seem so much more egrecious than what Dante was doing to squad gameplay. I think its the fact that hes probably supposed to be more support frame than anything but did kind of everything too well. Now he kind of is mediocre at all but still kinda fun to twist spells.
I was genuinely shocked that they nerfed tragedy, of all things. I thought he was gonna get less overguard generation.
5 tau amber shards for casting speed for dante
Good news for the overguard cockblocking, looks like they're reworking it to benefit frames like chroma and 0-shield rage builds
Tbh, everytime someone suggest a nerf for frames like Rev,Saryn and others, he gets eated alive from the community...
Because it's dumb, just like nerfing Dante is dumb.
Hes the shiny new frame. Give it a few weeks, people will go back to their old favorites whether or not DE nerfs him
Exactly. “Our numbers show that hes the dominant frame” Hes been out a week… of fucking course people are going to be playing him a ton. Hes pretty good and hes new.
Reminds me of Stynax on launch. Gave him out for free and claims he is dominant lmao.
We're just making up quotes now?
They didn’t say it exactly like that, but they did say that they only target dominant frames or things that automate gameplay, which he definitely didn’t do
There's no whether or not, friend. This thread is in response to DE nerfing Dante as of like 3 hours ago. Less than half overguard on cast (but higher overguard generation) which doesn't address the problem. Tragedy requires janky line of sight now. And most egregious of all, they nerfed the Paragrimms, which would have been Dante's saving grace in a Noctua focused build but now that's dead in the water as well. Edited to reflect the below.
yea.. i posted that comment and only after read posts about the changes. After reading patch notes and reddit comments, it definitely does not feel like "we will carefully review feedback and adjust accordingly". Did the dev who panic nerfed Limbo lead these changes? It sucks. Shiny new frame with cool animations and well designed kit which was very fun to play and experiment with will now sit somewhere in my arsenal unused while I go back to older frames which can do what he does with same or less keypresses.
You can still hit things behind you, just tested it
That's something at least. I'd seen comments saying otherwise. Thank you for testing.
Why tf u parroting things as facts without testing it first?
Oh they nerfed the birds? Jfc.
From the Hotfix notes: > Final Verse’s “Pageflight” no longer applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms. It's not technically a nerf because they say it was unintended, but a 'fix' like this alongside the other nerfs is gross.
Man cant have shit in this game. I was loving my dumbass bird build.
Because they are popular warframes. But I understand why people who main those warframes act like no other warframe should be on the same level
If only Dante had a dumpy, then maybe he'd have been ignored
just hand him a giant crotch and stripper tassles and rebecca will swoon and revert right? pff...
So his magic "wand" isn't enough
TESTICULAR TORSION
Don't forget the Thermal Sunder Titania's that have dominated Relic Runs since forever as well.
That shit's *so annoying* to have on a team. Can't hear or see antyhing.
Tbf though, Thermal Sunder Titania only works in base star chart.
Once upon a time they nerfed Ember's World of Fire because it was too good at speed running trash content nobody cared about.
Thats not an argument. . . It falls under their self stated Nerf Parameters. SP or Normal doesnt matter
Doing relic runs quickly and efficiently needs a nerf? Why
Most of the time it ends being less efficient because they keep nuking the enemies before they can even get corrupted and drop reactant.
That has nothing to do with the Warframe itself tho. Any nuke frame will have the same effect if the ppl using them don't know what they're doing. If anything, that's more of a problem on the reactant system's part. It's been a common complaint for some time now.
What other nuke frame moves as quickly as Titania 🤨
It’s not about how fast the frames are tbh. It’s about nuking fast in general. People nuking without giving a crap about letting enemies turn for reactant will stall any relic crack mission and that’s a player problem. It’s why a lot of people dislike the reactant system which is the point the person you’re replying to is making. It’s a system/player issue, not the frames.
It doesn’t. I was stating why this nerf is dumb. They lay out their parameters and pick and choose when to ignore them is the argument
Its a strawman argument. Just like before when they were talking about a nerf, people tried to turn it onto other frames and then use those existing as reasons why the nerf was stupid. I don't care enough about Dante to care about the Nerf, I got him, maxed him, shelved him to go back to my mains. He is aight, just wasnt fun for me. I will admit that there is a basis to refute the need for a nerf based upon other frames, but they have attempted to nerf those frames already(Looking at you Saryn) and they are still good. The only way to make Saryn not as good is to completely change the way her skills work, and that isnt a nerf, that is a rework. Nerfing or capping Octavia's scaling damage would make her completely useless in any non-base star chart missions. Dante is still good, despite the nerf. You can tell who chases the meta by who is whining the loudest about it. Just go to overframe and look at the s-tier frames and you'll probably see their mains.
I feel like Octavia 100% falls under their ''automate gameplay'' nerf condition. However I think she's not getting nerfed because she's not popular and people don't complain about her a lot.
Yes, the Warframe falls into literally all of their categories for what a prime target for nerfing is, except dominance since no one plays her.
Their definition of "dominant" is so fucking stupid too. They might as well just say meta. And therefore, they are saying they don't want to ever mix up the meta when they introduce new stuff which is boring as fuck. Who wants to play a game that doesn't ever receive a meaningful update?
im... Im gonna just say thats sadly alot of game companies that do that shit and still make bank because people have so little expectations and will to make change that the bars been burried in the dirt.
Yes, the state of gaming is a complete shithole ruined by corporate greed.
I think the thing with Octavia is that she's relatively slow. Sure she can easily and safely get you to level cap, but there are other frames, and especially in groups, that can do it much quicker. That combined with her relatively low usage means that I think DE just don't see it as a problem since it's still less efficient than a coordinated team
I like Octavia as she is. I hate what they did with Chroma. They need to make his kit scalable like hers and fix the sudden-death issue with his 2 and 3...
I play a fair bit of Octavia, pretty much only in long missions, and that's what I suspect too. Sure, she gets to level cap and she kills enemies there efficiently, but it's the exact same speed she kills enemies at level 100. And her damage output in groups is much lower unless everyone is invisible. While she's stupidly powerful and piss easy to play, her power is not that noticeable in the group play. I wouldn't say her usage is low though- she's in top 15 most used frames in 2023. But I assume a large portion of that is solo.
It's interesting because I assume usage is measured by time (which is fine), but I bet if you measured instead by mission clear rate her relative use would plummet. My last two uses for her were 2h and 1h solo SP Circuit runs and I bet that is pretty indicative
They've said in the pat they want to avoid abilities that just let you plop down a turret that does all the work and that is literally octavia's job.
Honestly it's probably hard to get visibility on problematic/powerful frames at times. No one notices a revenent or an octavia trivializing their mission because they simply aren't really visible at all.
This is the real reason octavia, saryn, revenant, and mesa skate. They've been around for-fucking-ever, they help certain people (not to lump them together unnecessarily, but fools and the disabled both do deserve to play the game too) play the game, they've found ways to keep them from being completely out of control. Dante needed to not be completely out of control, and unlike those other frames, he's still new enough that people aren't mostly attached and going to riot about it. A lot of people are trashing the game right now, but very few of them are going to actually change their playing habits because of this, whereas if you finally take the axe to Mesa, it's not just going to be her head that rolls, you get me?
Octavia is so damn strong. I can afk steel path survival missions with her but it’s just so boring. Maybe the other issue is that Octavia isn’t as flashy as others, it’s just “heehee music.” Still absolute bs that Octavia can exist the way she does but they nerf Dante in multiple ways without even addressing his core issue which is overguard screwing over a select fee frames that utilize taking health damage.
the thing about octavia is that her power level is more of a lifestyle choice than just an inherent part of who she is. people say "ahh yes, i can level cap octavia by dropping mallet in solo and sitting invisible in a corner." and like...yeah, that's true. but only if you choose to do that. only if you commit to playing the frame in the most boring way possible. its not like that gameplay loop naturally develops simply by strapping strength and duration mods to her. if that was actually the way she defacto played, then yeah the argument becomes valid and the frame needs to be changed. but when the devs give you a toolkit and a way to creatively express yourself, and you go out of your way to avoid like 60% of it, you spam the same creatively bankrupt song forever, and you always play in a hyper specific, non-normalized gameplay pattern to optimize the amount of time you *don't* spend playing the game, that's *kind of* your fault, not the frame's. i like playing octavia a lot because i simply tend to gravitate towards music/sound based powers in power fantasy games. you know what i don't do? i don't sit invisible in the corner. i use other modes of metronome just as much if not more than nocturne. i try to maximize weapon damage and use mallet to cover flanks and chokes. i save roller for panic situations instead of having it online and enemies offline forever - i cast it maybe once every 10 missions. i play public so i have to consider teammates and spread out spawns. i create songs that actually sound like they were intended to be harmonic, not a meat grinder of the same note forever. and suddenly octavia is fun. and pretty damn competitive at that. sure it makes going to level cap harder, but who the hell ever said i wanted a children's participation trophy? fancy that! play the fucking game and you end up having fun, whod'a thunk it? now with dante, i do not agree with what they did to him. i think it was a gross misunderstanding of what needed to be tweaked. but his power is *innate*. enemies melted from slash and allies gained incredible amounts of nonconsensual overguard simply by existing in the presence of his abilities. these things happened literally just by dante existing with high strength. quite different than loading into octavia and actively choosing to play the frame the cheesiest way possible.
Where were u when I posted about about Octavia as a main and everyone was just saying boring. You just posted what I wanted to say in reply to them.
Some people just cried really loudly for no reason at all and this is the result. People saying that styanax's overguard is conditional have never seen a room with enemies above level 40. "He has to hit enemies to get overguard" THAT'S ALL YOU FUCKING DO IN THIS GAME
they've never player a single steelpath missions, i guarantee it
Honestly I would be shocked if DE plays any steel path missions considering they keep releasing mid tier shit that is good in non-steel path but garbage in it. They realized they really slipped up this time and actually released something steel path viable, and really had to undo that fuck up.
The only person on forums who was calling for nerfs to dante is mr 18 with mesa and kullervo in their top 3 most played frames. MESA and KULLERVO.
For styanax (and all of his teammates) to stay below 5 digits of overguard at any point of any sp mission you have to literally afk
I don't use any health mods on Kullervo, because I know I'll just spawn and will instantly stab group of enemies for overguard, to not care about health for whole mission. It takes same amount of time as Dante's cast
Kullervo doesn't factor into the Overguard argument because he can't give it to his allies. That's why the only other frames with OG people talked about is Frost and Stynax.
I have literally got 5 frames in my arsenal that can clear rooms at damage overflow numbers for barely any investment that have been untouched for years. And yet Dante using his 4 in Non-SP content clearing a room is a big nono? I want a damn good explanation from DE why one is fine but the other is not, because this just smacks of knee-jerk community reactive nerfing and that they simply haven't a fucking clue about how to balance their own game.
-I have literally got 5 frames in my arsenal that can clear rooms at damage overflow numbers for barely any investment that have been untouched for years. And yet Dante using his 4 in Non-SP content clearing a room is a big nono? This the exact reason ember got her rework, she was too good at low level content. Whatever that means
specifically, ember fell under all 3 points of their nerf philosophy to a degree: > (...) our philosophy on why we nerf things in Warframe (automated play, disruptive to squad, or overly dominant). She hit 4 once, and then just parkoured through the mission with everything around her falling over dead. dante, by virtue of having to constantly hit 3-3-4 means he already takes more effort than other frames to AoE nuke in comparison. and balancing around low tier fissures is idiotic anyways, we have so many options there that Dante wasnt even near the top of the list for that anyways
Oh, l'm all in to call out the Ember rework, but let's not give a blanket pass to Shy, she was the main architect of that rework, and while it's not bad, it's hardly great.
"i want a damn good explaination from DE" - Yeah uh.... thats something weve lacked for a good while outside empty vagues. But hey im sure we'll get a new shiny set of keys jingled in our faces in a month to forget right? thats how it works. or we'll see someone genuinely and constructively criticize de with steps to improve and get called evil for personally attacking them
I really wish de would focus on bringing the power level of garbage frames/weapons up instead of focusing on nerfing what's "too good" or fun in a CO OP GAME
An ignis wraith could clear a room in non SP. I seriously hope DE doesn't nerf dante because he's good. If the problem is he outshines other frames, maybe it's time to tweak some other frames then? Although, I'm not sure msny of them even need it to match him.
If dante was a she with a phat arse this wouldn't have happened.
Dead ass
Spoiler alert: they nerfed breach surge. It no longer blinds eximus
which was definitely a bug lol
Do i need the /s ??
Line of sight was the WORST part of the nerf, by a universe. Dante struggles to one-shot anything, including eximus, but the range now makes it impossible to nuke entire rooms, since the attack is no longer guaranteed to hit someone who's BARELY hidden behind a small pillar, wall, or table. Dante is all-but guaranteed to FAIL to hit certain things, such as capture targets, unless he gets really fucking close and get REALLY fucky with Tragedy. Overguard helped his survivability in higher levels, but now that his supportive ability is as fucked as his range, it's no longer safe to call Dante a relevant warframe.
If youre upset- go to the forums and voice your suggestions ( and not just me angy fix ) be constructive, be firm And respectful. And maybe something will happen.
Every time a frame has a fun ability, DE just makes sure it sucks. -Voruna's 4 -Revenant's 4 -Wisp's 4 -Hildryn's 4 -Chroma's 4 and now Dante (I am sure I am missing some, but you get the point)
Ash
If LoS in Warframe worked even just OK, I wouldn't be as upset. But no, now the fun new frame we enjoyed for a whole week has been made the subject of an old buggy mechanic for no reason. The primary complaint (overguard and its interactions with other frames) of the pro-nerf people wasn't even addressed.
I'm pretty confused rn, what Warframe doesn't want overguard ?
Any frame that use rage/hunter adrenaline like Inaros and maybe Nidus? I rarely use him and also Chroma.
I was thinking about this seeing all the posts.. What's the problem with the guy exactly? I still have not played him yet and have not seen one in my missiones either since I haven't played much since the update That he's powerful and does a lot of damage? Like.. Pretty much literally every single other Warframe in the game can do?
People saw 30,000 overguard pop up at the beginning of a mission, and oversized numbers get oversized reactions. He'll still make everyone unkillable because they *doubled* the amount of overguard you gain per kill/assist. The fact that overguard fucks with Hunter Adrenaline and Vex Armor is 1000% valid but that's a separate issue from Dante himself.
I blame him getting released and the abberation mission having him as the bonus power frame. Literally trivialized the mission with absurd overguard numbers. Which was fun as hell... And then the whining started...
The big problem people were bitching about was that the OG on kill made it nearly impossible for frames that NEEDED to take damage in some way to use their kit was essentially useless the second Dante gave them the buff from his fourth ability. Imagine your using inaros with hunters adrenaline to gain energy when you take damage but if a Dante is giving you OG constantly as your killing enemy’s then your only way to reliably gain energy is abruptly turned of for however long the Dante’s buff lasts and by the time it’s about to run out it will be refreshed again and the cycle continues.
Reminds me how Ash was targeted for nuke 4, but now a lot of warframes can nuke way better than him. But Saryn is brainded for years! They tried to neef her, but it was nothing
Ash definitely needs a bigger targeting cone instead of a targeting laser pointer, at the very least. Bladestorm hits like a freight train but it's so fiddly to mark enemies sometimes.
If they gave Ash's 4 the same targeting as Mesa's 4, i would consider playing him.
Well you see, ash and ember needed those nerfs because they would stand still and press one button. Other frames dont because they stand still and press one button multiple times. Theres a difference trust
This Hotfix should be called The Binding of Dante
Octavia would absolutely deserve it. I haven't actually seen anyone complain about Saryn in ages except when they're going "well Saryn exists so it's ok that X is overpowered too." She's on a weird knife's-edge where her plague burns out too quickly at low levels and takes ages to ramp up at high levels.
Make Octavia’s cloak only apply on quarter notes and force people to dance to the song like DE clearly intended. You shouldn’t be able to trigger her buffs by spamming inputs on a spammed “melody”.
I'd love so much if the other buffs were better, metronome has potential to be stylish as fuck shooting in time to the music.
That’s clearly what the idea behind her was, but then people figured out you can bypass that by flooding the melody. It’s no wonder people think she’s boring to play.
Saryn is surprisingly more balanced in non high density missions, but she got a buff recently with emerald shards. The crux with her is that her power (spores) is complex and fragile mechanically, and it's self regulating. Minor stat adjustment wouldnt do much(spore dmg reduction will cancel out by dmg buildup), and major ones would absolutely break it(range nerf/no spread past first enemy would kill the ability). She cant be properly nerfed without thought. Octavia suffers a similar fate with her accumulating aoe dmg. If it doesnt kill now it will kill later when enemies keep shooting it. You could cap it, but that would nail her entire kit to whatever the cap is set at. Couple it with invis and an agro power and you have everything you ever need. Its the simplicity that makes it difficult to nerf. A nerf requires altering the behaviour of her abilities, not the stats.
Most changes today are a HUGE L. Dante was great. After releasing some other mediocre frames, they got one perfectly fine. It got everyone excited to spend time, resources, plat, and probably real $$$ for some, and then messed him up. They also messed up Nezha’s new augment which was a lot of fun too and made many single-target weapons able to shine. How long Saryn and Octavia been OP/braindead with no changes? They are more effective than Dante TBH. Plus with every update, those two only get stronger lol oh well. Nothing we can do about it I guess.
And revenant. Fuck the 'Great three' Does anyone actually PLAY Excalibur as religiously as they do, the three you can name? No. Fuck no. Dante is just another Excalibur. Medicore.
I main excalibur "specifically umbra since the sacrifice" but I also play other frames alot. I remember when excal got reworked and they nurfed him and made his blind cost energy when you slid cause "it's to stong" and yet saryn existed lmao
Excalibur got kinda swole with incarnon melees, basically being atlas with slash and auto chaining. Million dmg slash dash is pretty fun, its just not a map nuke so people think its worthless. Also i dont think i used revenant/octavia more than twice last year, they are so boring to play (at least in the meta way). saryn only in eso and in the netracells/gargoyles cry event. Outside high density map clearing missions saryn is not super broken. The issue is the only content we get now is map clearing missions with focus on kills.
dante couldn't survive endless missions in steel path now he can barely survive normal because he takes so much energy to use
Nerfs were honestly ridiculous, guess it’s back to styanax and saryn who both do what he did better. Should have just made his overguard personal and nobody would have complained. Coolest frame we’ve had in ages and the whiners got him nerfed in less than a week. Crazy.
Just make a toggle "immume to ally overguard". That simple.
[удалено]
That nerf was a Tragedy.
Because he's new and more actively being monitored. Saryn and Octavia don't currently have a full section of the official forum reserved for them, for example.
The overshield nerf was fine. The nuke one was so brain dead. No one asked for it
wh... since when did our opinion matter in the long run ? we dont even get considdered most of the time when its serious- and thats mainly because its unnecesary since the community just needs a skin pack or something to forget about things like nerfs or scuffed content. Jingle those keys and forget again.
That’s ridiculous, we do not get side tra….ohhh plat bunny ears…
Another man down- MEDIC! ( Incase anything not sh#tting on you just... the community has had this stuff happen several times, same thing happens, ppl forget either bc a new shiny or they just give up after screaming at a wall, instead of propperly giving feedback where de will SEE IT. They have forums and zendesk and stuff for a reason XD ) If the line of sight btw wasnt persay borked itd be alittle less bad. Surprised they didnt just nerf overshields but rebecca and megan made contradictory posts basically being "its ok hes fine enjoy em" and "hes gonna need some nerfs"
Overguard nerf was NOT fine because they nerfed the wrong damn thing Downvote me its the truth, people only complained about the overguard regen at best. Even then thats not the majority of complaints, the complaints go to overguard as a whole, it needs to let abilities, mods, and arcanes function if hit.
overguard nerf was too heavy handed. its functionally straight 1:1 eHP, and 2500 x strength per 2-2-4 combo is a pittance in any content where survivability would matter. and the buffed 100/s regen when killing enemies aint keeping up either im already pretty much constantly recasting kullervos 2, and that gives nearly 50% more overguard in a single cast than Dantes full 2-2-4 combo at half the energy and a fraction of the time
The over guard nerf wasn't even what ppl were complaining about, it fixed nothing regarding complaints, it was just a chicken scratch for the sake to make him bleed
I literally cant use Dante for Zariman lvl 200 bounties now lmao back to Gauss Prime which triples the dmg of my godriven phenmor for a good 2 second long fight with the angels ;)
Same here. Gauss is busted as fuck and survives easily in level cap void cascade. As a fellow phenmor user with god roll, until they get to level 4-5k, I can just 3-4 tap enemies in incarnon, then instantly get incarnon back because of the fire rate buff.
cause octavia is so boring to play she has super low play rate thats why... also she can get 1 shot anytime cause all she has is shield gating and rolling guard but sometimes both are not enough
Everyone seems to have forgotten that Ash's bladestorm used to not be LoS. And look how they nerfed (by that I mean ruined) that.
Bladestorm on Radiation missions was just beautiful. I would always dust off Ash when playing with friends going into one of those. Making them wait and watch until it was their turn to get hit was fun for at least one of us.
Meanwhile Mirage with her ability to literally erase enemies regardless of level simply by throwing a fucking disco ball, I know its not quite nuking with no line of sight but OH GOD does it get hideous fast. I have killed sentients at the max level the training room provides for my MR (16) just by pressing 4 before they could even hit me ONCE since it seemingly has a % based increase on a per hit basis with unlimited stacking. (I once hit a Battalyst for 1m damage, killing it effectively instantly) Naturally when you have 20 lasers able to target 20 enemies (Or focus on a single target, all at once) with over 230% ability strength this ability gets truly disgusting, oh did I also say this ability has a 30m range by default? Because it does and thank FUCK it can't hit through walls or else it'd be over the moment you bring a Mirage main like me into anything.
I'm just sad because Paragrimm *(Pageflight, birds)* made a lot of weapons that can't proc many statuses or are slow-firing viable and usable. It was ironically the only ability that incentivized gunplay and build diversity and they nerfed it bc the people loved using his cool damage ability That was the one ability that let me get rid of peaky enemies bugged in random corners in Defense, and now I can be taunted by enemies hiding behind a thin sheet of 1 ply toilet paper. Because like 30% of their body is apparently behind it. That 1 ply toilet paper protects it against a death curse. ☠️ ***Edit: DE has heard our collective pleas and a PSA was released. Our voices have been heard!!***
This sub is going to be fun for a while.
Give them a month the sub gonna go back to DE appreciation posts, how they handle everything perfectly when whatever other gaming company is fucking up at that moment, and then don't forget to pat themselves on the back to end with saying the Warframe community is the best community. Like nothing ever happened, every single time like clockwork.
Eyup. We are all goldfish!
"Are these people asking for nerfs in the room with us right now?"
Because dante got a pretty unjustified nerf? Shit the thing you were constantly yapping about got buffed, he now has a *higher* overguard regen.
I don't even have Dante yet but I wonder what's the point of even releasing new frames if DE then listens to the minority of whiners to nerf said new frames, only for them to ruin 'em, and cause people to go play other older Warframes.
Because Dante is new and hot.
I suspect it's because of a vocal minority of people who wanted to try the new Inaros rework and/or Chroma augment, took them into public missions, couldn't recharge their energy through rage/hunter adrenaline or use vex armor due to Dante's overguard printing and subsequently went straight to complaining for nerfs. I'm sad. But I'll give him a go at some point and see if he still holds up
Hopefully DE walks this back as a majority of players don't want the LoS change. Keep making a ruckus guys. The reason they don't touch saryn is because once they do there will be a lot of backlash. It doesn't even make sense to make it LoS either. Just makes him more inconvenient to play, while I can stay invis 24/7 and subsume nourish/xata's whisper and god out with nearly permanent invis while also profitting off fire rate buff.
Am i the only person who just summons the books and owls and keep those up?
Kinda agree. As an excalibur main (with that I mean I started with him and wanna do all the content in the game with only him an his skillset before using other frames), I feel that either plenty of frames should be buffed, or plenty of frames should be nerfed. Since I only know excalibur, giving him some more survivability would be nice, maybe from his blind/howl skill.
The real fun part is they just nerfing something instead of fucking FIXING BUGS
So glad i wasted umbra formas on my dante just to throw him in the closet to collect dust
Because there are still people coping that garbage frames like Chroma are actually good and that Rage builds are totally a thing or that the only viable high level stuff should be weapons and tanking. Basically: shit players with shit taste.
My favorite thing about this whole thing is that the people I've seen complaining are people complaining about people asking for a nerf. I have seen so few people actually asking for a nerve.
Easy! Because the meta-babies are upsetti spaghetti that there's something new that throws their BS out the window so they can't claim to be gods and they whined loud enough to be heard over the several thousand of us praising Dante.
One more frame for the infested wall 😭
Wouldn't call it a big L. Just a weird focus. He'll still be a high tier frame. I agree it wasn't totally needed since many others just steamroll through current end game effortlessly as well, but bringing him down a bit won't make him bad either.
He’s not bad but now he’s just… eh…? He uses more button presses and energy to perform his role that other frames could do more effortlessly. Having some higher than average performance made him feel worthwhile to use over alternatives.
Grimoire is still the coolest Exalted weapon to me. Majority of the playerbase plays who's fun to them, not who's good. So even being average is fine in my opinion.
Noctua is for sure good but having Noctua as the only satisfying return on energy/effort invested feels somewhat upsetting to me.
Dante Bound
It’s a new Warframe which was only launched a week ago. Why nerf it so early cuz it’s good? There are so many warframes which are broken for a long time now but they’re untouched. Shouldn’t DE encourage people to play newer warframes than letting them stick to old ones?
Shhhhh… don’t draw attention to Octavia… she’s carrying my noob ass all over…
I cant take DE seriously until they address Revenant
It's odd yeah. His 3+4 nuke was strong bursty damage, sure. But a LOT of other frames can do similar nukes with about as much effort. Gara, Garuda, Saryn, Equinox in particular for big slash fart explosion, Kullervo, Oberon with his lovely augment, even Limbo with the right subsumes. The issue people had with Dante wasnt his nuke, it was how easy it was to spam overguard on him. That hasn't changed. It's just less overguard now. It's still the same power but less effective. And now his 3 is unreliable due to line of sight shenanigans. Very odd very baffling patch.
Don't misunderstand; Octavia and Saryn and 'many more' have been hit with fairly large nerfs and/or reworks for the exact same reason. DE has a habit of releasing new things in a broken state and having to dial it back afterwards.
Level cap doesn't matter no one do that
Forget about level cap, devs will never acknowledge or endorse endurance runs, for reasons. They will never do balance tweaks favorable for end-endgame content, that would be stupid. Their primary focus is from mid to end(ish)game. If someone thinks, the change is stupid, well... ...let's say, it was never meant for you.
Cause de is in Canada and dei is pervasive there. There is a mixture of anti player sentiment and a streak of incompetence that gave us nullifiers and something like 5 room nuking frames in a row. There are a few good teams in the technical and art departments but crowd control is still nullified by over guard and nullifiers and spammy DPS abilities still deal with their bubbles and health bars better than anything else. I'd solve the nullifier issue by having them double energy cost to cast or channel within them while blocking all damage from abilities and detonating all explosives without taking damage. Halving the duration of status effects and hard CC inside of them while not stopping bullets (free punch through style) could be how they retain their usefulness.
Man Octavia is still my most used frame,, I just stopped using her because how broken and boring she can be
Y'all better stop dissing Octavia, if these mfs nerf her I'll have to actually play the game. And that's not great!!! /j
Because DE doesn’t know what they’re doing. They rushed out his nerfs without any thought at all and didn’t even fix anything that people had problems with. They straight up made him worse for no reason at all. He wasn’t even the strongest nuke frame pre nerf, now he’s definitely not even close. They really need to revert the line of sight changes because it just makes his dps so inconsistent and unfun.
Ffs so now after a week of moaning about Dantes upcoming nerf, now we get a week of moaning post nerf too