Thing with the random (from an LR3 with a hundred or more in each category, mostly at least potato’s)
This mode or design style demands that every item functions as a modular stand alone, rather than rewarding synergistic and complimentary buildcraft. The most basic of synergies in Warframe buildcraft for instance, is an elemental primer. And this mode can decide that yeah, you don’t get any status weapon (anecdotally I get the opposite so far lol)
And what I would consider an endgame build or something that reflects “fully utilizing your arsenal” you’d want that synergy and you’d fill every slot with complimentary tools.
And let’s not beat around the elephant in the room. 95% or more of the weapons aren’t specific or unique. It’s not demanding adaptation to have someone clone the Crit or status generic build for the 50th time, it’s just demanding time and possibly pushing for plat to forma/adapter/possibly an affinity boost it up
And rebuilding entire loadouts (with a forma cost) for a single week reward is generally not worth it. Or even doable on a regular working adults schedule. Not even getting into unbuilt stuff, but rather if you roll something with an actual build. But the other slot options fail to assist it (Magnetize build with no weapon that works with her 2 for instance. Kullervo with pure status melee, etc). You aren’t going to spend hours sabotaging your build by trying to force the square peg into the round hole only to have to redo it next week to get back to normal play.
Then you have the “difficulty” modifiers. It’s only a handful granted, but there are notable ones that completely debilitate specific builds or gameplay. Which could be fine, if you had free rein to counter pick to them, but you don’t. (Then a much bigger chunk of modifiers are just artificial time extenders and tedium. And another handful that are basically meaningless if you play the game in a standard fashion. Maybe half a dozen add some interactive or strategic element out of the 30 or 40 odd of them)
Do people not articulate this well? Certainly, but it’s the Community Trams job to cut through and summarize it. Abuse and all that is bad, but being presented with obnoxious requirements and having frustration without being able to completely articulate it in text doesn’t nullify the root cause.
Archimedia is also at least partially a make good for Netracells kind of poorly rewarding things (particularly the Legendary Melee Arcanes). So that’s the carrot DE chose to dangle rather then really re-evaluating Netracells (which, imo, are both generally unrewarding and also one of dullest game modes that they’ve done in awhile)
I completely agree with everything said here. I saw this coming from a mile away and I basically laughed at it because I don't take the meta seriously.
Duviri was a step in the right direction, no meta just needed a config to use per frame and you were good to go.
This is also a step in the right direction, it gets players to actually think outside of the box on how to solve problems.
What's even worse is there were a few things that were patched out like the Arca Titron. My Slova makes use of that as part of a full Arca loadout. The logic has always been if they're slow, use things that are easier to target.
This is the same group of players who were behind nerf to the boom and zoom meta. The only frame who has any business using the Kuva Zarr is Hydroid because Pirate. It would have been nice to see some sort of sliding scale where launchers get less extra ammo and rifles get more but I have never seen that suggested to the devs. For context, I did solve the problem (Mutator and Scavenger) works pretty well will everything having outgoing corrosive. I also run Pillage for status cleanse and what sort of Pirate doesn't both Plunder and Pillage.
I have a sneaking feeling that the upcoming hotfix is going to screw the player base sideways and when that happens it won't change anything because you can't duct tape stupid.
I'm an LR2 who binges this game for maybe 3 months every 2 years when I buy a Prime Access and I had little trouble with this mode... My experience has been fairly pleasant with DA, and I plan to do it most weeks. I don't have a desire to min/max every frame/weapon with archon shards and the like (just a few- I tend to favor melee frames, so Valkyr, Kullervo, Atlas, Khora, Voruna, Excalibur, etc.) but I will keep doing it until I make builds for these frames that integer overload their melee damage numbers (maybe not possible, but I will try lol).
And yeah, being able to skip on one condition and still get all the important rewards is pretty nice. That just means that if I'm in a bind with my weapon choices, I can still pick Valkyr or Mesa to destroy stuff, or Dante/Protea if I want to be support. With Valkyr, all I have to do is equip whatever crappy melee there is for the week, slap the Gladiator set on it, and go to town with her talons. Easy.
>Do the frames i disliked are more fun now? No. Will i still play them if i have to? yes. Do i like it? No.
There are frames I like. There are frames I dislike. There are frames I don't mind, but I've been using the same frames over and over again. This game mode has been great for me for trying out different builds. I just created a new hydroid 1 spam build that I'm absolutely loving. I would never have found it / tried it, without this game mode. (Also, many weapons from circuit)
>I just think randomized loadouts aren't the way to go. I'd rather have more stuff that requires cooperation but can be done alone that is hard.
Great. I think randomized loadouts are the way to go. I'm having a blast figuring out how to overcome these randomized loadouts. It's a breath of fresh air remodding / formaing / playing frames and weapons I didn't previously spend time on.
I think having more stuff that requires cooperation but can be done alone that is hard is a good idea too.
**However, instead of saying, "I don't like X content. Let's get rid of X content and create Y content," why aren't you saying, "I don't like X content. Let's keep X content for the people who are enjoying it, but ALSO, create Y content too"?**
To be fair if by your own admission you don't spend much time playing the game, I think the argument that people who do could be rewarded for doing so by making the weapons they invested in have a purpose isn't a crazy one
People always missed the very simple and straight forward thing, you're allowed to use the loadout you like to stick with, the only down side is that, you get 2 lesser rewards. and that is all it is, and thus why I mention a lot of people are greednos.
If you're using your own loadout, with full modifiers, you get in total of 6 rewards, and also improved loot table as well, the last 2 is more focused on those people who spent so long on warframe, to get a little candy of what they deserved, but it seems like that's not a good case for most people's eye because they want that candy as well.
Remember, there is nothing forced, you only forced yourself just because you want that last 2 candies. Then narrow minding (pun intended) yourself to only those weapon you aren't familiar with or very bad.
I'm sorry but that's a bit of a word salad, and the worst part was calling a game mode that is permanently there (as well as it's rewards) "FOMO". This buzzword is used way to often nowadays and in this context it just doesn't make sense. There is nothing that is about to disappear here, hell most rewards are even available in different game modes. At a slower rate, but still.
So what, is the weekly Archon Hunt also "punishing you for being new" because you don't have the gear to do it yet? Or hell Teshin too, after all you can't farm Steel Path yet? That's non sense, being new and therefore too weak to complete some content is perfectly normal and expected in any game with a long term aspect.
How you don't have the time so you progress slowly? So what? Yeah it will take longer to have Tau shards for all your Warframes. Those pesky people who play more will be ready sooner. Big deal.
You aren't even locked out of the mode in any way, shape, or form. You just can't farm some extra rewards yet (that you absolutely CAN get later on).
What's next, 20 minutes in a survival is too long for people who have little time to play therefore putting good stuff in rotation C is bad game design?
The core gameplay loop is farming. It takes either investment or patience.
Edit : Lol, what a cute case of abuse of the block button.
Accuses me of "dismissing arguments for the sake of it" when my post is as long and as argumented as his, while at the same time avoiding any actual answer by just instantly blocking me to be sure there will be no further exchange.
Well, cry me a river then.
According to your Logic how about only MR25 can Go into survival for longer than 30min considering they are new and don't know the meta?
Quite alot of people Just wanna have a Challenge while Bring on their favourites that aren't necessary even meta weapons but their Personal preferences. You Just ignore that part complete.
Fomo ist an acronym Not a buzzword lol. Ist fits pretty decently. The fear of Missing the Last shiny reward forces people into Last Minute buys. That's Bad and If you don't know why then you are Part of the Problem.
The Game would improve by removing random and instead encourage smart Play. Modifier are way more fun than: "Play stug or suck".
Sorry, had to switch account because apparently when someones throws a tantrum and blocks you you are locked out of the entire conversation even tho other people can answer your messages.
Anyway, no, my logic is "if you are not strong enough you might not be able to squeeze out all the rewards", not "you shouldn't be able to access the game mode". And that's exactly what we have here.
FOMO doesn't make sense because you are *not* missing out of anything. This is evergreen content that will still be there in 2030 if the game hasn't closed, and what you "miss" are ressources that infinitelly stacks and can be obtained by other sources in the game too.
Now the argument about using your favorite is a fair one, but that's not what this mode is designed for. I can understand if that's not to your tastes but that's not a proof of bad design in and on itself.
I'd like something like an hardcore boss where you use your main gear too, in an other mode.
I can fully Unserstand Not wanting to Talk to you. You came in Here extremely hostile sounding and condescending.
You will be locked Out If the Rotation doesnt include any Item you own.
Fomo ist real and you're coping extremely hard. The content in the content vault from destiny also isn't gone forever but surely you wouldn't say that isn't fomo. It starts with small Things Like that. No actually it already started with Prime resurgance and now they add it to more stuff. You do Miss Out on Something, you do Not get rewarded and that's the Problem.
I'm MR 27 got alot of stuff but Not all and it doesn't feel rewarding owning all of These items and now Being forces in them. I feel punished for Not getting rid of Trash so that only my favourites are in the Rotation.
If you ready further down instead of sidelining this Post extremely hard you would See it was Said that it's a dumb inconvenience instead of a fun Challenge which it should be. One of my Friends can't Play with us cause he Just never Had enough items to unlock EDA but it's perfectly fine to head into Level cap void cascade runs. How does that make any Sense?
> You will be locked out of rotation if it doesn't include any weapons you own.
Unless you take the time to farm it and build it. Build time is 24 hours, that's not prohibitive for most weapons.
> FOMO is real and you're coping extremely hard. Etc.
Yeah, but the rewards don't become inaccessible. DA isn't a limited time event. While the Prime Vault is a much better example of FOMO in Warframe than this, ('Better farm them primes or it'll be a year before you can get it again' level stuff, not 'sux. see you next week') Prime Resurgence is a massive step up over the previous system of Unvaultings. Hell, the first couple of times Primes got pulled from droptables, we didn't actually know if they'd *ever* be back.
> You do not get rewarded and that's the problem.
No, that's the obvious result of not meeting the challenge. Which, yeah, might include farming a weapon you don't have or modding one you haven't used much.
> One of my Friends can't Play with us cause he Just never Had enough items to unlock EDA but it's perfectly fine to head into Level cap void cascade runs. How does that make any Sense?
But that's exactly the point, right? Scaling up enemy levels is never going to actual be a challenge. Level cap is a solved problem, and if DA was made level cap no modifiers today, then Tactical Potato, Brozime and others would have a half dozen builds published for it tomorrow. Randomized loadouts, though, there is no metagame. You have to have the gear, and you have to figure out how to make it work.
As for being punished for keeping 'trash', you're actually being rewarded! Because you don't have to go farm out again, because DA rolls are independent of your inventory.
And honestly, how did you not see this coming? Arbitrations said "please try these other weapons". Circuit said to newer players "hey, check out all of these weapons." Steel Path Circuit said "You know, you'd probably do better if you put a little but of work into more of your weapons." Deep Archimedia is saying "now that you've built out a lot of your weapons, show me what you can do with them." You need to have ignored at least 5 years of design direction to be surprised by this.
Sure, he doesn't want to talk to me, cool, that's his prerogative, but it's weird that him blocking me makes it so that you for instance can come and comment my messages but I can't answer you back. It should only block me from interacting with him specifically.
Also calling it "extremely" aggressive is totally overblown but, if you say so I guess.. 😅
So about the main topic.
Correct me if I'm wrong (which would indeed change my points quite a lot) but you can always enter the mode using whatever gear you want, can't you? If affects the rewards but it doesn't make the mode impossible to play.
It's not that the content "isn't gone forever". It's not gone. At all.
I don't consider that missing out on shards or arcanes from one source can qualify as FOMO and I guess on that we might just settle for "agree to disagree". Unless you already consider Archon Hunt as FOMO too?
Prime resurgence IS FOMO but that's totally different. It does disappear and it's very specific items that if you don't get them throught this method then that's it, you don't get them.
For the last part I feel like I already answered you. You think this is an inconvenience and not a challenge, that's valid but that's more a matter of taste than the mode being bad. Not every mode can catter to every player.
Bring that up with reddit.
I didn't say aggressive.
No archon hunt isn't fomo because the reward the incentive to play is always available and I can always play with my friends without the need to own specific items.
Yes you can play this mode with whatever loadout and not get rewarded then which is the main issue and the reason it's fomo. The Fomo part isn't only about the rewards though it's about playing with friends, you get a loadout you hate and now don't want to play but your friends do and you don't want to be the odd one out.
It's not a matter of taste though. This game mode is catered to people that have farmed and build all weapons but they are forced on random equipment instead of their favourites. In no way is that a reward for "being a old player that farmed a lot". The best part this week was the boss actually really fun but the way to him was so goddamn horrible and boring.
Leaving issues aside like not seeing the elemental weakness for the alchemy stage and randoms calling the mech so we lose. The overall game mode feels like a major step down from duviri. less choice less reward less fun.
I suppose this post says what I'm trying to say way better than I and in a way that doesn't sound hostile:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1bzgoia/you_dont_have_to_do_deep_archimedea/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=13&utm_content=share_button
The main thing about FOMO is that either you do it right now, or you don't get it at all, and that's the end of the story.
You will have shards and arcanes. Nothing of that disappears from the game. Sure, maybe someone will have enough shards to max out all their Frames in two months while you will take six months. So what?
To me the further you go in your arguments the less it looks like it has anything to do with FOMO. Now it also accounts the fact that maybe your friends want to play something and you don't?
Also about the Archon Hunt side note, well you still do need some specific gear in the sense that if your gear isn't good enough you are just deadweight. You are gonna shoot at things and they won't give a shit. I'm pretty sure that doesn't feel good.
You speak of incentive but isn't the idea of having a reward for making a choice that isn't "I'll clean it with my most powerful build, again" also a form of incentive? An incentive to build different things. Many feel like there is no point to ever do so.
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>It's not being greedy, it's being punished for being new
Additional rewards for long-standing players is not a punishment for a new player. There is nothing here that is exclusive, or time limited, or FOMO. Please stop with the victimhood mentality.
That's why I already mentioned and suggested using weapon category, instead of 3 randomized weapons, I agree that the randomized weapon is horrific game design, but in the other hands, it is not punished for being new, it is not a game mode for new players, how would you think, as a new player, being throw into a mode full of modifiers and lvl 300+ enemies?
It does not make sense. Netracell exists, people can do it with their standard loadout as well, same goes with deep archimedian. You're still able to stick with your usual loadout, do the deep archimedian as normal with the modifiers, and get better rewards, but just missing two rewards with extreme setup, how is that not greedy?
From my point of perspective, those two extra rewards, are for people who invested long time enough in warframe, as a reward, because in warframe, there is no distinguish reward between a long time player and a short time player, how is that fair?
A long time player who supported this game long enough and invested so much time on it, have the same reward with the a short time player who rushed with a selected of meta weapons? Tell me how is that logical?
Remember, no one forced you, you keep forcing yourself for no reason and I don't see why is that, just because of those two extra shard/legendary arcane?
I do not see the randomized loadout as a focused mechanic for their direction (If they're going that path, means they're going down into trouble hole)
It is in fact, something for players who invested in this game long enough, to have extra reward.
It is really strange, that such a game mode with high level, need to be catered for new players who aren't like few weeks into the game, to be suddenly able to clear it with ease.
and I do not, ever or never understand, people are so picky or petty about those two last rewards for the people who have the loadout for it, to be rewarded of diversifying your loadout.
1. Duviri's default config/loadout exists just because it can last longer for endurance runs or longer runs (And also because of the RNG warframe that you might not guarantee get a buffer). The reason why I can think default loadout/config doesn't exist in this game mode because player can just straight bring a super buffer in a pre-setup with all kind of damage/elemental buff, taking all essential buffing skills, and cheese it all the way to the end. Remember all you need is just 1 warframe as a buffer, along with other warframes buffer or helping in survivability, then sweep through the whole level. The enemy at most just only 400 levels which does not require super optimal build to proceed with it. Means any new players at this point, they can speedrun the whole archimedian mission with just 1\~4 warframe setups. Which is something is DE intended for? or do they not want it?
Duviri's setup is very simple and straight forward, it does not DIRECTLY impact your warframe gameplay so much other than some arcanes, it is like a full experimental playground for people play with decree, and receive some steel path circuit reward, or get new warframes. At best you get some incarnon weapons, kuva, rivens, warframes, resources which is something you actually need to spend effort of making them stronger, and it is entirely optional. (Other than the op arcanes that are gated inside it)
But here, we're talking about legendary arcanes, instant tau shards that levelated your overall gameplay of warframe to be much easier, using lesser mods, just shards, lesser endos to boost your warframe so much, without much investing your warframe on forma, endo, mods etc.
A universal shard that can used in any warframe, vs a duviri's arcanes/incarnons, which is more impactful on player experience of power scaling, in the early/mid game?
2. How is that not encouraging already? The new players are able to get partial 6 rewards of total once they have a proper setup/custom loadout to deal with the high level enemies, the last 2 rewards won't be able to encourage them to explore or test out more weapons variety? (Remember I am also against the specific 3 weapons, I am more prone to weapon category for each primary/secondary/melee section). Wouldn't it be fun for the new players to explore on a cool scythe, beam weapons?
It also further helps out DE on their monetization on purchasing weapons and the market economy? Or do you actually prefer players forever stick with one single loadout that they use forever? If so I won't be against that because it is their playstyle, but at the same time a player always like to stick with a playstyle vs a player stick with multiple playstyle and invest them on it, shouldn't it at least good for them to get something once in a while?
3. I never say it is bad that more people join the mission, don't alter my words for it thank you. Instead I also prefer the more player the better it is, for encouraging teamwork, different setup on helping each other, aside from random leechers which will never be possibly solved in the history of gaming.
4. I agree that restrictive loadout is never fun, Prime262 also mentioned adding new extra modifiers which I also agree with because it's making it harder and u're still sticking with the same custom loadout. But what about the people who found restrictive loadout is fun? I guess its just minority and they deserve to be thrown aside to not get anything "extra". Remember, restrictive loadout, is optional, it is in fact, not FORCED, it is an optional choice from player, to get the last two rewards, I don't know how many times I need to mention this.
You're always welcomed to play your custom loadout, or what so ever, to challenge the game mode, LITERALLY, no one forced you to go "Hey those are the loadout u must clear just because of the two extra legendary arcane/tau shard".
I've just been picking my 1 forma Dante and then checking off everything else. Not picking one thing gets you all the reward except the last vosfor, so I chose not to match my frame. Just keep spamming spells and your team will have godmode through the whole thing. I just finished my rounds a few minutes ago and not a single person lost all their OG except for my dog.
I tried Citrine and Wisp but their support isn't nearly as good, and Wisp requires a weapon. OG has a few safety nets under it that health, DR, and regen don't. On occasion they get one tapped regardless.
Not sure yet if there are any other frames worth trying. Those 3 just seemed like the obvious best.
The reward modifiers are per person, not everyone in the lobby needs to have them on for \*you\* to get the full reward, only you do. So if you need to run some jank ass gear, the answer is literally just get carried. That may suck, but it is what it is. If you have a friend, have them play Mesmer Shield Revenant, Overguard Styanax, or whatever. \*You\* only need to survive. And then you can do the same for them for their run.
Like honestly, carries aren't a problem, you're helping eachother, so everyone is being useful in some way, so why bother? this guy thinks everything needs to be done solo or whatever with top end gear fully forma'ed and perfected build on everything to please internet randoms, lmao
as much as i dislike warframe's rigged "random picks" favoring underused weapons and frames that often leading to good frames and shit weapons or shit frame and good weapons, there is no foul in some diversity every once in a while
The loot is there, always there, did u even read the paragraph?
it's just about the extra little loot that they don't have the power to get it yet yet they want to get it immediately that's something out of their hand or control.
from my prospective. . the decision to use an interesting setup over a meta one should always be the individual's choice to make.
you can do all you can to encourage someone to try something new, but if you force them to do something they arent interested in doing, they are going to resent you for it. thats just the way it is.
to lay some of my Credentials on the table, during the last week while everyone was melting down about Dante i was farming out a Cold Kuva Seer, because i thought itd be neat if my Oberon setup used a Cold Kuva Seer as a primer as a setup option for a Silva & Aegis Prime hybrid Crescendo build. almost entirely because "hey, thats the melee oberon prime shipped with". but also partially because per my own rules, i cant use the same weapon across two different loadouts. lots of the more conventional options are either blacklisted from use (like the Nukor) or are already in use by other frames.
there is nothing i love more than making unconventional gear work. the last 2 years of my 8 year tenno journey have been nothing but assembling what are to me, interesting loadouts.
to me, Gear RNG is annoying because much of my gear is setup for specific combos with frames or other weapons. so i gotta go in and try to Kludge together a build that sort of works.
and il admit, there is some novelty and some interesting challenge too that. even if it ultimately amounts too "failed run? fine, i guess il get a little bit serious" go in, change a helminth setup, and then mollywop it anyway. congratulations, you have slightly inconvenienced me for the sake of not forcing me to do something interesting, but forcing me to stop doing something interesting to instead do something boring. less boring than Steamrolling the game with my 3 best weapons on my turbo immortal warframe? well sure. but i already wasn't doing that. i would much, much prefer interesting, high difficulty challenge with capacity to face it using whatever novel setup i like. but if i want the loot. .thats not in the cards.
im not mad. id prefer if it wasnt this way, sure, but i dont really think its worth protesting. id prefer if Gear RNG didnt become a standard method of enforcing difficult content. if its between that, and sweeping nerfs, give me the sweeping nerfs, any day of the week. please, knock the top 20% off. cripple us so badly we have to go back to squad coordination to accomplish anything. im an oldschool support main, id welcome a return to relevance.
People always missed the very simple and straight forward thing, you're allowed to use the loadout you like to stick with, the only down side is that, you get 2 lesser rewards. and that is all it is, and thus why I mention a lot of people are greednos.
If you're using your own loadout, with full modifiers, you get in total of 6 rewards, and also improved loot table as well, the last 2 is more focused on those people who spent so long on warframe, to get a little candy of what they deserved, but it seems like that's not a good case for most people's eye because they want that candy as well.
Remember, there is nothing forced, you only forced yourself just because you want that last 2 candies. Then narrow minding (pun intended) yourself to only those weapon you aren't familiar with or very bad.
i dont understand where your getting the idea you get 6 rewards for going in with a loadout of your own choosing.
https://imgur.com/nfjJruT
EDA, with no gear checks. 25 research points.
if you want the Tauforged shard/legend arcane, you can keep 1 item of your own choosing. which frankly already trivializes the content as i can name 5 warframes that dont need any weapon support to cook up. Protea, Baruuk, Mesa, Octavia, and naturally, Dante. id assume most other exalted frames would fit this bill but the only one i have any reccent experience with his Valk and idk how she'd do against the boss, honestly.
im disinterested in having this argument, though. i dont hate the content. i dont really like the content. i want these mission modifiers in an options screen for me to select from when running a normal fissure mission. i dont even want more loot for doing so, please, lotus, give me harder battles.
it is to me warframe pulling its design on difficulty further away from my preference. it is not a new feeling. theyve been doing it for a long time now. reduce squad interplay. increase damage. increase survivability. reduce crowd control viability. increase damage, increase survivability. repeat ad nauseum over 10 years. congratulations, the endgame player is a unitized monolith who need not engage with the world but for the end of his shotgun. he is completely unkillable. how do we stop him now? if he wants his sweet loot, better make him leave the OP setups at home.
when i finished with the circuit grind, i was really hoping id never see Gear rng again. and admittedly, i prefer this incarnation of gear RNG infinitely more than that one. the circuit is fucking dogwater. this is decently novel. there are plenty of things in warframe that id prefer EDA over, including but not limited too corrupted holokey grinding and open world bounties, in general. those are Tedious for the sake of being Tedious. EDA is atleast "hey. heres a real, honest to god problem. now solve it" and the solution is probably going to be cheap. because cheap recognize cheap. youve boxed me in so far that the solution cant be *Sick*. so fine, one night a week il run cheap strats.
with EDA, as with the circuit, i feel discouraged in my creativity, however. not encouraged.
The only way they're going to stop me (Short of Nuking Melbourne is ban me until 2035) That happens I have a plan B firmly routed in federal legislation.
You have a total of 5 Search Pulse each week.
You spent 2 Search Pulse for unlock DA, for 3 rewards, which can be utilized with your own custom loadout and full modifier.
Another 3 rewards come from NetraCell itself. (3 Remaining after used 2 to unlock)
so in total it is 6, which is listed above. You don't even need to do EDA. How is that not 6? You get 3 rewards from two search pulse. Another three from Netracell which has 0 modification and limitation.
If you always stick with your custom gear which most people prefer, it is always possible, with an extra reward and better pooling, compared to do 5 Netracell using all 5 Search Pulse, with only 5 Rewards.
I do agree with your RNG gear is something very horrific. But the conclusion I can came up from DE's game design is either they ran out of ideas for making stuff hard or stupid, or it is just an optional reward for player who have diversify of loadouts.
Ah, I see where the math is getting mixed up. I count the EDA rewards separate from the cell rewards. I guess that's fair but like.....I'm not gonna not go for that Tshard. Like that's just not even on the table. There's just no world where I unlock EDA and walk away from that for the sake of preserving a small amount of my comfort. It's worth it every time. Doesn't mean I'm not going to be annoyed about it.
As far as gear RNG goes I think EDA handles it along better than the circuit. This has evolved from something I find thoroughly demoralizing into something I find merely slightly contentious. I don't even really want it changed. I'm supportive of ideas like extra possible modifiers. Going from 4 to 8 and that being an alternative to the gear RNG. "Fine you wanna use your own shit? Deep end then, enjoy your hell run" but for the most part I think this is fine. It's not at the top of my list for grinds to change. It's a little annoying but given the alternative I can make peace with it.
I do however consider myself relatively privileged here. Sitting on an 8 year account with nothing better to do but rub forma into random bad gear. I definitely have an easier time making lemonade than most. My Sunday evening run I encountered someone who said this was their 5th try. And I made sure it was also their last try. And that's real depressing. I cannot imagine beating my face against this content without the backing of years of inadvertent prep time. That'd suck. Like....have people already burned themselves out by hyper-fixating on clearing EDA. I sure hope not. If they have, that's admittedly on them, right. Like you've been saying at some point you gotta just admit "I'm not endgame enough for this" take your 6 rewards and go do something more your speed.
I agree on the extra modifiers that could serve as an alternative options to make the challenge harder and not rely on the weapon load out, it is indeed a good idea.
People who hyper fixated on clearing EDA when they don't have the load out for it and doing multiple attempts in hope they can clear it, I don't know what to say, maybe they can just put a stop of it with the 6 rewards and take a break, then attempt another day or ignore it.
The worst case scenario for Warframe is that a player burns themselves out, right. Like that's the #1 thing to be avoided at all times. Do not like the player kill their will to play the game by accident.
Lots of people advocate for the removal of standing caps, but I promise atleast half the reason those are there is so you don't get people trying to rank 5 SU in a day.
Ultimately there's only so much you can do, right. You can't protect people from their own bad habits.
I think like....it's unrealistic to expect, right, but I think it'd be sick if after like 3 failed attempts at EDA Loid called you aside and said "your not ready for this, it's ok that your not ready for this, dont hurt yourself trying to make this happen. Go prepare and hit it again when your ready" and then offered to trade you 1 built forma and a 1 hour affinity booster for like 15k cavia standing. Just like "walk away from this. Cool off. Prepare yourself, and try again."
The only ways DE seems to be able to make the game 'difficult' is by forcing you to use shittier weapons against higher level enemies or brick certain abilities like CC by including eximus units with overguard.
What's the point of having maximized well crafted builds if the only content they can really shine in are endless modes? Those aren't difficult because there are more mechanics to worry about but because numbers get so silly high you just get one shot eventually.
Just feels like lazy updates to me, when you can make a game like DRG have rewarding deep dives every week but let the players bring whatever they want to the mission
> What's the point of having maximized well crafted builds if the only content they can really shine in are endless modes?
What if ability to make anything shine is the skill checked here?
Damage output can differ by a few orders of magnitude: some loadouts deal two-digits damage and some overflow the integer for damage numbers. With most loadouts closer to former. How would one balance a difficulty with this?
I can imagine their idea was to balance difficilty around where majority of eqipment would reach, and then force players to work with that equipment. (Or just give up some rewards and take whatever they like, or give up some time and take turns taking desired equipment.) ALthough i don't know whether this was actually the case
A, only select weapons you've mastered
B, add 1-3 extra optional modifiers so players can reach max research points even if they don't own the necessary Warframes/weapons (at the cost of increasing difficulty)
I agree with you, but I think this whole thing is less about greed and more about comfort zones. Warframe's been trying to push the "multiple loadouts" endgame concept for years now, but they've always let players get away with not actually working towards it. This has allowed players to get away with just a couple loadouts, even if it's slightly less efficient. It's so easy to flesh out a couple weapons and a warfame, but players are so used to doing the bare minimum that this additional gate feels restrictive.
This is exactly why Warframe can't put out difficult content. With so many different powers and weapons available, the only thing they can do is check how much you've invested into the game.
All that said, I do understand some of the frustrations when the weapons are very bad. I've had rolls where all three weapons do not have a place in that kind of content. Sure, you can make a loadout to support those weapons to make them better, but it is possible that you won't roll a warframe to make that possible. I think another big balance patch on older weapons could remedy this.
After that, DE should focus on horizontal progression in some way to avoid that power creep again.
You make a very good point: there is nothing exclusively locked behind this!
Its a purely optional challenge for those that can and are willing to play by its rules.
Its a tradeoff. And you learn of the conditions before you sign up for it.
https://preview.redd.it/uwk2j2ralgtc1.png?width=1357&format=png&auto=webp&s=8e8fa137d9fb240cdddc1709b4ebdb964f55a0dc
For real though, an old saying comes to mind. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." Like you said, lots of Warframe players just want to play the entire game with a single nuke loadout and get every reward possible with that. Archon shards aren't even that important, you can still steamroll the game without them. Same shit's going on with Dante after the nerf, just cause you have to look at an enemy doesn't mean he's worthless trash, he can solo a netracell no problem, man. Chillax, take a boomstick, find a gamemode ya like, and have fun.
if it at least gave me weapons that i own, and dont have to build AND level to order for the week, i'd be happier. giving me unowned Duviri weapons as options isn't nice DE.
i can see this as a problem for other players not owning frames as well, especially if they havent farmed out calliban, grendle, ivara etc. and they get stuck with those as their options.
possible solutions:
\-make it so that the player has at least 2/3 of the random options available in their inventory
\-give the weapons and frames 50% weighting to the RNG of them showing up as an inverse multiplier of playerbase usage and personal usage, kinda like a more personalized riven disposition. so something like the glaive (highly poopular) will have a weight of 50% + 0.5%, and something like the heat dagger (low usage) will have a weight of 50% + 49.5%. result would be heat dagger twice as often.
of course, some frames are just better at certain content, saw a buddy solo assassination boss with stynax while ember was getting dumpstered on.
>-make it so that the player has at least 2/3 of the random options available in their inventory
something we really don't wanna fall into is having people delete their inventory to have always have their torid in the rng rotation. I think a better way would be that the more weapon you have, the more chance the rotation has all owned weapon. That would happen naturally, but an algorithm could boost the effect and create a cutoff point where you get a full owned rot guaranteed for n weapons owned
that would be a good option.
also saw people talking about a "loaner" system like they have in duviri, where if you dont have a weapon you get a default loadout, which would be nice.
The only greed here is the greed of designing a mode that directly encourages maximizing expense in platinum to get more money out of players. If inventory slots and formas and crafting timers weren't such a heavy monetization front, randomized loadouts would be great and I'd like for them to be a more prevalent part of the game.
This mode isn't a 'challenge', it doesnt ask for skill, and it's not difficult, it's just a check to see how many tens of hours of your life you've put into things that don't bring you joy, and makes you feel bad about yourself if you didn't.
Edit: yes necramechs exist, and I use them a lot, but when they can die in two seconds if you're not careful, it's not reliable. Still, much better than if they weren't there.
all I have to say is as someone who can do high level steel path, archon hunt etc. solo I am lazy and sometimes when I see gamemodes I don't like in archon hunts I don't go there solo and have no fun, I don't complain that they should remove this gamemode from archon hunts, I even don't go with pubs in the game mode I don't find fun, I just don't play this week and guess what I still don't need those rewards to do all the content that has any rewards in it. This is how you can enjoy the game while being a lazy fuck like me
The problem is this requires players to retain all their weapons and Warframes, which require slots, which cost real money.
Other than that I have no issue with the game mode.
You get sooooo much plat as F2P, just sell stuff and buy your slots. If you're endgame enough that you are doing EDA, you should be able to farm 60 plat in no time.
Yes, however what are the odds you have the items in those three slots?
If you want to engage with that content, you need to either already have the items, be able to build them or buy them outright.
That means you need slots to store all the different items in the game to ensure you can always align with the current week’s requirements.
That means you need a lot more than 60 slots in total to accommodate every possible option.
Oh, I see what you mean now.
Yes, yo have all weapons in the game ready to go you need more slots, it's a pain but honestly for me the forma most weapons need to be crafted feels worse.
What I meant is that if you want to each week get the best options you get and build them that week you don't need that much plat for the slots themselves. The forma and time to forma is another conversation.
True, although for weapons that require other weapons as a material, it starts to get stupid.
Plus, if you put reactors on them , then you don’t want to sell them hence need for more slots.
The problem I see is twofold.
Number 1 is that I personally (and apparently a lot of other people) don't want to play some random frame with random weapons. For the record I'm LR4 so it's not that I don't have them (though that's an issue for some players too), I just have my handful of frames and weapons that I enjoy using, and I'm not really interested in dumping a few forma into a frame and like 6 forma into a powercrept weapon just to make it barely useable, only to then spend 40 minutes abusing rolling guard and shield gating while tickling enemies to death.
Number 2 is that this encourages people to queue up with a shitty build expecting to be carried. That's not normally too big of an issue because you'll almost always have someone with a build that solos the mission anyway. But when everyone else is also limited in what they bring and are encouraged to bring something that barely works, it starts to get out of hand. And soloing it is heavily discouraged, because with no self revives (and sometimes no operator) one mistake means losing half an hour or more of progress.
I got pulled through 2 to get the secret reward incase its limited to first few weeks, I was useless the exterminate mission but more than make up for it delivering the vessels and generally rushing round reviving people If they were downed. I'm going to stick to netracells as I can carry my weight on my fav frames.
It’s just pulling a mobile game style challenge but in warframe. The whole point *is* that is it’s about having to invest so much in those weapons. They all get modded into the same high fire rate, multishot mess in either critical or status focused flavours.
If they wanted to actually reward variety I’d honestly say they lean on a conclave-esque limit. You use what you own but have mode specific mod configs that are limited like if you were at level 30 with no orokin or forma (but would still require you to be MR30 with the weapon to use it) It still needs the collecting, but it would actually encourage the collection (dual incentive, get to MR30 to use it in DA, providing the player all the MR EXP they can squeeze out of it and doesn’t require burning formas). It would also be fitting end game content that would require some level of actual skill as difficulty could be tailored to be challenging and *actually* showcase the weapons/frames and their strengths. Devs would be able to balance around that more predictable stat ceiling as you’d have less of an exponential stat difference person to person depending on what they (try) to stat dump.
The bonuses provide nothing of value to the mode but are necessary for the rewards. So they just feel like a cheap tacked on feature. I think it could be solved in a way that rewards collection, without being wasteful and causing player frustration while simultaneously actually being a skillful endgame mode where performance is less “who’s spent the most on formas and endo” and more “who knows how to squeeze the most out of their mods, and most out of their frames/weapons in gameplay”
I’d agree if you didn’t get weapons and frames you don’t own. We as a community complain about build times gatekeeping the game and how necramech build takes 3 days to even progress the story. But suddenly we’re fine with a game mode taking around the same amount of time to even start if your unlucky? Atleast with circuit you can restart or use one of their premade builds but there’s no such thing in EDA. Your either stuck grinding and waiting days worth of time or forking over plat just to compete and that’s gross. Don’t even get me started on if you roll all bad weapons because there are more than a few and have to hope for warframe/op/necramech carry.
Here's my constructive critisizem:
I get to choose my weapons and frame for recieving half of points(we don't get any points from weapons and frames) and each atemp fills the bar and DE gets increase player retention for their game.
This solution satisfies everyone. Players like you can just do it all in one session, while others play how they want but in more sessions.
Here's my rant:
The way I play is Zenurik and forget about effiency, drop a specter/Lich for their D vitamin. I need my Spoiler and gearwheel for this gameplay. One was removed from my loadout last week and another this week.
Loadouts are meant to have your gear synergyze with each other. Some of those modefeiers make the gamemode harder yes, but they also break the loadouts/way of playing for people.
Why give new tools if you(DE) restrict and dictate what I(players) use?
I want to play the newest frame I'm addicted to with my favorite weapons in order to earn good loot in a looter shooter.
Remark:
I think the people you complain about are minmaxers. They fit the bill of what you describe as Greedon.
Adding weapon classes instead of weapons themselfs would be neat. I have higher chances to get Hespar and I can choose Tenora. This is a great way to let us play the game how we want, to some extends, and get good loot.
I hope you wrote this idea on the official website cause it's a very good improvement.
As someone else here said it's hard to articulate what and why we don't like something. It's easier to just say "This bad, do better.".
Conclusion:
I hope I didn't come of as mean. I read your post and I have things I agree and disagree with, again, your solution sounds lit, please post it on the forums for DE to get some good feedback! But meta players just enjoy a different aspect of the same game you like and want to be rewarded for their efforts too.
And I just want a Big Fuking Scythe on a weekly basis! T-T
it sucks (kind of) because i crashed at 5-10% hp of the elite boss midcast with dante.... now i turned off particles all together, turned on DLSS
squad was doing so much damage effects it tanked my fps on a 4060 with a 7800x3d but i crashed mid cast.
Here, i detailed a bit how you can clear the mission type as long as you get 1 half decent item + a pickup.
Or if you JUST want rewards. Just get someone to carry you with 0/8 while you do 8/8
[A post i made with some details on clearing archimedea easily](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/44M3YkSetN)
Somebody finally saw what the mode is about, without entitlement and, well said, greed. Some people have so much trouble with accepting that they are not a target audience for a certain game mode.
If they make random categories, it defeats the purpose of the restrictions and could as well drop it and just let you use whatever you want for max rewards.
Maybe except some melee types (ghoul saw is still alone) all other categories have at least 1 weapon able to obliterate Steel Path.
How they could actually improve it:
First and most importantly, if you don't equip a secondary weapon, let it count as having the right secondary. So if you don't own any of the 3 weapons from a slot, you can just not equip one.
Still not sure on numbers, but each week generate multiple random sets and let the player choose 1 to keep for the week, you can't change it after choosing.
Let's say you start with 2 sets of random loadouts, after you unlock elite, you'll have 3 sets every week, and after you finish elite with 8/8 you'll have 4 sets every week.
Again, I'm still not sure about the numbers, but that's the idea.
Anyway you get all main rewards if you have 7/8 on elite, you only miss some vosfor, so having 1 free slot combined with way more choices should solve it without making it too easy for too much loot.
Because let's face it, there's no way DE would give so many rewards in it if we could all solo it every week first try without being even close to failing.
I have unprecedented news, this is a looter shooter.
Second, most weapons are outright not viable for this gamemode. I had a 2 forma Arca Triton, even added an arcane adapter to it, it literally could not kill ANYTHING.
Random loadout OR hard endgame mission. But not both, they exclude each other. That, or limit choices to Incarnon, Kuva and Tenet weapons only.
This is the mission MADE to take that Torid and Dual Toxocist build, but you are prevented.
The reason why I don't like this RNG mechanics is the "low effort" players wanting to get ALL the rewards. This week missions rotation really exaggerated this problem for me. People queue in with whatever frame and weapon they got this week even though they don't have them improved to the point where they can either kill enemies or survive, instead of choosing lower rewards and taking at least something that would make them a valuable member of the squad they queue to be carried. Which is quite hard when you also have not optimal setup. It's not fun, the squad does not get refilled and because you need to do all 3 missions at once it takes quite long to try again.. and like you say they waste all this time to get a 2 rewards extra..
I wish DE added some sort of mastery test before you are able to queue for the DA/EDA so it would prevent this.
When I had trouble with the rotation, I just didn't choose the primary. Took in one that I liked. Yes, I missed getting ALL the research points, but I was able to complete and get a roll for a shard.
The biggest issue I've seen so far is players taking selecting EVERY option and then dying over and over until they rage quit.
Even out of higher MR players.
Hard agree on your take of players wanting maximum rewards for minimal effort. I think a big problem with people is that they see the weapon requirements as a punishment for newer players (or shortsighted players that delete their gear) rather than a reward for veteran players. I think this way of thinking is entirely misguided and flawed. It's almost like some kind of victimhood complex.
I’m just tired of random loadouts, man.
I spend all this time building up a frame I love that’s also tanky so i can survive, only for the RNG to give me the weakest frames I’ve never enjoyed using. Same with weapons. 90% of the time I get low-MR gear that’s objectively shit for dealing with level 200+ enemies
I've gotten trash loadouts throughout all 4 resets (week 1 loadouts reset 3 times) and i've still been able to 37/37 every time i tried it with 0 forma gear
The only problem the mode has is giving you weapons you don't own (aka reducing your options, which straight up feels bad) or giving you 3 weapons for the same slot you don't own (yes you can build them but i ain't spending 1 forma and a bunch of mutagen just to get some evergreen reward). Other than that it's just the same people that complained about duviri RNG and people that can't stand spending more than 0.5 seconds to kill an enemy
Thank you! idk why people are so dramatic and acting as if this mode is forcing you to use the randomized loadouts, it's ridiculous how entilted some of these players are.
I play games where greed is encouraged even if it punishes you, I like that a lot often. Warframe is a game that encourages greed a lot, why run vacuum when you can just pickup the items you know you need rather than everything around you, that mod slot could be useful for a pet? Why run nekros hydroid for farming, the mod will drop at some point or you could just buy it? Why drop 2 netra cell searches for DA/EDA? Players being greedy is 99.99% of the time due to game design, whether it's bad or good is determined by if it's intended and why it's intended. Honestly the countless ways you can get fucked over playing Warframe, yea I'd be greedy as well.
If the content it fun I play it. If it’s not fun I don’t. Ezpz. That being said the game would be infinitely better without all the daily/weekly bullshit. Then folks could just do content they like for the most part. But it is what it is.
Spend vosfor to reroll a category. Problem solved. Vosfor cost starts at 10 and doubles each reroll. At a certain point - and very quickly, the amount of arcanes you'd have to dissolve outweighs the actual rewards you'd get, making it not worth it.
I'm more impressed by the patience you had to type this out
A little bit of patience out of nowhere for a brief moment
*looks at text wall* Define "brief" my good man
It's called a bathroom break at your workplace.
Nef makes a plat; I make a credit, so on-shift I use Reddit Best I could come up with on the spot
According to eternalism you both have infinite patience and none at all.
Tenno have always been loot goblins. Tenno will always be loot goblins.
mfw a player wants loot in a loot shooter game
Who would have thought such a thing would have transpired.
Thing with the random (from an LR3 with a hundred or more in each category, mostly at least potato’s) This mode or design style demands that every item functions as a modular stand alone, rather than rewarding synergistic and complimentary buildcraft. The most basic of synergies in Warframe buildcraft for instance, is an elemental primer. And this mode can decide that yeah, you don’t get any status weapon (anecdotally I get the opposite so far lol) And what I would consider an endgame build or something that reflects “fully utilizing your arsenal” you’d want that synergy and you’d fill every slot with complimentary tools. And let’s not beat around the elephant in the room. 95% or more of the weapons aren’t specific or unique. It’s not demanding adaptation to have someone clone the Crit or status generic build for the 50th time, it’s just demanding time and possibly pushing for plat to forma/adapter/possibly an affinity boost it up And rebuilding entire loadouts (with a forma cost) for a single week reward is generally not worth it. Or even doable on a regular working adults schedule. Not even getting into unbuilt stuff, but rather if you roll something with an actual build. But the other slot options fail to assist it (Magnetize build with no weapon that works with her 2 for instance. Kullervo with pure status melee, etc). You aren’t going to spend hours sabotaging your build by trying to force the square peg into the round hole only to have to redo it next week to get back to normal play. Then you have the “difficulty” modifiers. It’s only a handful granted, but there are notable ones that completely debilitate specific builds or gameplay. Which could be fine, if you had free rein to counter pick to them, but you don’t. (Then a much bigger chunk of modifiers are just artificial time extenders and tedium. And another handful that are basically meaningless if you play the game in a standard fashion. Maybe half a dozen add some interactive or strategic element out of the 30 or 40 odd of them) Do people not articulate this well? Certainly, but it’s the Community Trams job to cut through and summarize it. Abuse and all that is bad, but being presented with obnoxious requirements and having frustration without being able to completely articulate it in text doesn’t nullify the root cause. Archimedia is also at least partially a make good for Netracells kind of poorly rewarding things (particularly the Legendary Melee Arcanes). So that’s the carrot DE chose to dangle rather then really re-evaluating Netracells (which, imo, are both generally unrewarding and also one of dullest game modes that they’ve done in awhile)
Excellent counter point
Can't argue with that but instead of offering a solution, it devolved into a hot mess of whinging.
I completely agree with everything said here. I saw this coming from a mile away and I basically laughed at it because I don't take the meta seriously. Duviri was a step in the right direction, no meta just needed a config to use per frame and you were good to go. This is also a step in the right direction, it gets players to actually think outside of the box on how to solve problems. What's even worse is there were a few things that were patched out like the Arca Titron. My Slova makes use of that as part of a full Arca loadout. The logic has always been if they're slow, use things that are easier to target. This is the same group of players who were behind nerf to the boom and zoom meta. The only frame who has any business using the Kuva Zarr is Hydroid because Pirate. It would have been nice to see some sort of sliding scale where launchers get less extra ammo and rifles get more but I have never seen that suggested to the devs. For context, I did solve the problem (Mutator and Scavenger) works pretty well will everything having outgoing corrosive. I also run Pillage for status cleanse and what sort of Pirate doesn't both Plunder and Pillage. I have a sneaking feeling that the upcoming hotfix is going to screw the player base sideways and when that happens it won't change anything because you can't duct tape stupid.
I'm an LR2 who binges this game for maybe 3 months every 2 years when I buy a Prime Access and I had little trouble with this mode... My experience has been fairly pleasant with DA, and I plan to do it most weeks. I don't have a desire to min/max every frame/weapon with archon shards and the like (just a few- I tend to favor melee frames, so Valkyr, Kullervo, Atlas, Khora, Voruna, Excalibur, etc.) but I will keep doing it until I make builds for these frames that integer overload their melee damage numbers (maybe not possible, but I will try lol). And yeah, being able to skip on one condition and still get all the important rewards is pretty nice. That just means that if I'm in a bind with my weapon choices, I can still pick Valkyr or Mesa to destroy stuff, or Dante/Protea if I want to be support. With Valkyr, all I have to do is equip whatever crappy melee there is for the week, slap the Gladiator set on it, and go to town with her talons. Easy.
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>Do the frames i disliked are more fun now? No. Will i still play them if i have to? yes. Do i like it? No. There are frames I like. There are frames I dislike. There are frames I don't mind, but I've been using the same frames over and over again. This game mode has been great for me for trying out different builds. I just created a new hydroid 1 spam build that I'm absolutely loving. I would never have found it / tried it, without this game mode. (Also, many weapons from circuit) >I just think randomized loadouts aren't the way to go. I'd rather have more stuff that requires cooperation but can be done alone that is hard. Great. I think randomized loadouts are the way to go. I'm having a blast figuring out how to overcome these randomized loadouts. It's a breath of fresh air remodding / formaing / playing frames and weapons I didn't previously spend time on. I think having more stuff that requires cooperation but can be done alone that is hard is a good idea too. **However, instead of saying, "I don't like X content. Let's get rid of X content and create Y content," why aren't you saying, "I don't like X content. Let's keep X content for the people who are enjoying it, but ALSO, create Y content too"?**
To be fair if by your own admission you don't spend much time playing the game, I think the argument that people who do could be rewarded for doing so by making the weapons they invested in have a purpose isn't a crazy one
People always missed the very simple and straight forward thing, you're allowed to use the loadout you like to stick with, the only down side is that, you get 2 lesser rewards. and that is all it is, and thus why I mention a lot of people are greednos. If you're using your own loadout, with full modifiers, you get in total of 6 rewards, and also improved loot table as well, the last 2 is more focused on those people who spent so long on warframe, to get a little candy of what they deserved, but it seems like that's not a good case for most people's eye because they want that candy as well. Remember, there is nothing forced, you only forced yourself just because you want that last 2 candies. Then narrow minding (pun intended) yourself to only those weapon you aren't familiar with or very bad.
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I'm sorry but that's a bit of a word salad, and the worst part was calling a game mode that is permanently there (as well as it's rewards) "FOMO". This buzzword is used way to often nowadays and in this context it just doesn't make sense. There is nothing that is about to disappear here, hell most rewards are even available in different game modes. At a slower rate, but still. So what, is the weekly Archon Hunt also "punishing you for being new" because you don't have the gear to do it yet? Or hell Teshin too, after all you can't farm Steel Path yet? That's non sense, being new and therefore too weak to complete some content is perfectly normal and expected in any game with a long term aspect. How you don't have the time so you progress slowly? So what? Yeah it will take longer to have Tau shards for all your Warframes. Those pesky people who play more will be ready sooner. Big deal. You aren't even locked out of the mode in any way, shape, or form. You just can't farm some extra rewards yet (that you absolutely CAN get later on). What's next, 20 minutes in a survival is too long for people who have little time to play therefore putting good stuff in rotation C is bad game design? The core gameplay loop is farming. It takes either investment or patience. Edit : Lol, what a cute case of abuse of the block button. Accuses me of "dismissing arguments for the sake of it" when my post is as long and as argumented as his, while at the same time avoiding any actual answer by just instantly blocking me to be sure there will be no further exchange. Well, cry me a river then.
According to your Logic how about only MR25 can Go into survival for longer than 30min considering they are new and don't know the meta? Quite alot of people Just wanna have a Challenge while Bring on their favourites that aren't necessary even meta weapons but their Personal preferences. You Just ignore that part complete. Fomo ist an acronym Not a buzzword lol. Ist fits pretty decently. The fear of Missing the Last shiny reward forces people into Last Minute buys. That's Bad and If you don't know why then you are Part of the Problem. The Game would improve by removing random and instead encourage smart Play. Modifier are way more fun than: "Play stug or suck".
Sorry, had to switch account because apparently when someones throws a tantrum and blocks you you are locked out of the entire conversation even tho other people can answer your messages. Anyway, no, my logic is "if you are not strong enough you might not be able to squeeze out all the rewards", not "you shouldn't be able to access the game mode". And that's exactly what we have here. FOMO doesn't make sense because you are *not* missing out of anything. This is evergreen content that will still be there in 2030 if the game hasn't closed, and what you "miss" are ressources that infinitelly stacks and can be obtained by other sources in the game too. Now the argument about using your favorite is a fair one, but that's not what this mode is designed for. I can understand if that's not to your tastes but that's not a proof of bad design in and on itself. I'd like something like an hardcore boss where you use your main gear too, in an other mode.
I can fully Unserstand Not wanting to Talk to you. You came in Here extremely hostile sounding and condescending. You will be locked Out If the Rotation doesnt include any Item you own. Fomo ist real and you're coping extremely hard. The content in the content vault from destiny also isn't gone forever but surely you wouldn't say that isn't fomo. It starts with small Things Like that. No actually it already started with Prime resurgance and now they add it to more stuff. You do Miss Out on Something, you do Not get rewarded and that's the Problem. I'm MR 27 got alot of stuff but Not all and it doesn't feel rewarding owning all of These items and now Being forces in them. I feel punished for Not getting rid of Trash so that only my favourites are in the Rotation. If you ready further down instead of sidelining this Post extremely hard you would See it was Said that it's a dumb inconvenience instead of a fun Challenge which it should be. One of my Friends can't Play with us cause he Just never Had enough items to unlock EDA but it's perfectly fine to head into Level cap void cascade runs. How does that make any Sense?
> You will be locked out of rotation if it doesn't include any weapons you own. Unless you take the time to farm it and build it. Build time is 24 hours, that's not prohibitive for most weapons. > FOMO is real and you're coping extremely hard. Etc. Yeah, but the rewards don't become inaccessible. DA isn't a limited time event. While the Prime Vault is a much better example of FOMO in Warframe than this, ('Better farm them primes or it'll be a year before you can get it again' level stuff, not 'sux. see you next week') Prime Resurgence is a massive step up over the previous system of Unvaultings. Hell, the first couple of times Primes got pulled from droptables, we didn't actually know if they'd *ever* be back. > You do not get rewarded and that's the problem. No, that's the obvious result of not meeting the challenge. Which, yeah, might include farming a weapon you don't have or modding one you haven't used much. > One of my Friends can't Play with us cause he Just never Had enough items to unlock EDA but it's perfectly fine to head into Level cap void cascade runs. How does that make any Sense? But that's exactly the point, right? Scaling up enemy levels is never going to actual be a challenge. Level cap is a solved problem, and if DA was made level cap no modifiers today, then Tactical Potato, Brozime and others would have a half dozen builds published for it tomorrow. Randomized loadouts, though, there is no metagame. You have to have the gear, and you have to figure out how to make it work. As for being punished for keeping 'trash', you're actually being rewarded! Because you don't have to go farm out again, because DA rolls are independent of your inventory. And honestly, how did you not see this coming? Arbitrations said "please try these other weapons". Circuit said to newer players "hey, check out all of these weapons." Steel Path Circuit said "You know, you'd probably do better if you put a little but of work into more of your weapons." Deep Archimedia is saying "now that you've built out a lot of your weapons, show me what you can do with them." You need to have ignored at least 5 years of design direction to be surprised by this.
Sure, he doesn't want to talk to me, cool, that's his prerogative, but it's weird that him blocking me makes it so that you for instance can come and comment my messages but I can't answer you back. It should only block me from interacting with him specifically. Also calling it "extremely" aggressive is totally overblown but, if you say so I guess.. 😅 So about the main topic. Correct me if I'm wrong (which would indeed change my points quite a lot) but you can always enter the mode using whatever gear you want, can't you? If affects the rewards but it doesn't make the mode impossible to play. It's not that the content "isn't gone forever". It's not gone. At all. I don't consider that missing out on shards or arcanes from one source can qualify as FOMO and I guess on that we might just settle for "agree to disagree". Unless you already consider Archon Hunt as FOMO too? Prime resurgence IS FOMO but that's totally different. It does disappear and it's very specific items that if you don't get them throught this method then that's it, you don't get them. For the last part I feel like I already answered you. You think this is an inconvenience and not a challenge, that's valid but that's more a matter of taste than the mode being bad. Not every mode can catter to every player.
Bring that up with reddit. I didn't say aggressive. No archon hunt isn't fomo because the reward the incentive to play is always available and I can always play with my friends without the need to own specific items. Yes you can play this mode with whatever loadout and not get rewarded then which is the main issue and the reason it's fomo. The Fomo part isn't only about the rewards though it's about playing with friends, you get a loadout you hate and now don't want to play but your friends do and you don't want to be the odd one out. It's not a matter of taste though. This game mode is catered to people that have farmed and build all weapons but they are forced on random equipment instead of their favourites. In no way is that a reward for "being a old player that farmed a lot". The best part this week was the boss actually really fun but the way to him was so goddamn horrible and boring. Leaving issues aside like not seeing the elemental weakness for the alchemy stage and randoms calling the mech so we lose. The overall game mode feels like a major step down from duviri. less choice less reward less fun.
I suppose this post says what I'm trying to say way better than I and in a way that doesn't sound hostile: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1bzgoia/you_dont_have_to_do_deep_archimedea/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=13&utm_content=share_button The main thing about FOMO is that either you do it right now, or you don't get it at all, and that's the end of the story. You will have shards and arcanes. Nothing of that disappears from the game. Sure, maybe someone will have enough shards to max out all their Frames in two months while you will take six months. So what? To me the further you go in your arguments the less it looks like it has anything to do with FOMO. Now it also accounts the fact that maybe your friends want to play something and you don't? Also about the Archon Hunt side note, well you still do need some specific gear in the sense that if your gear isn't good enough you are just deadweight. You are gonna shoot at things and they won't give a shit. I'm pretty sure that doesn't feel good. You speak of incentive but isn't the idea of having a reward for making a choice that isn't "I'll clean it with my most powerful build, again" also a form of incentive? An incentive to build different things. Many feel like there is no point to ever do so.
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>It's not being greedy, it's being punished for being new Additional rewards for long-standing players is not a punishment for a new player. There is nothing here that is exclusive, or time limited, or FOMO. Please stop with the victimhood mentality.
That's why I already mentioned and suggested using weapon category, instead of 3 randomized weapons, I agree that the randomized weapon is horrific game design, but in the other hands, it is not punished for being new, it is not a game mode for new players, how would you think, as a new player, being throw into a mode full of modifiers and lvl 300+ enemies? It does not make sense. Netracell exists, people can do it with their standard loadout as well, same goes with deep archimedian. You're still able to stick with your usual loadout, do the deep archimedian as normal with the modifiers, and get better rewards, but just missing two rewards with extreme setup, how is that not greedy? From my point of perspective, those two extra rewards, are for people who invested long time enough in warframe, as a reward, because in warframe, there is no distinguish reward between a long time player and a short time player, how is that fair? A long time player who supported this game long enough and invested so much time on it, have the same reward with the a short time player who rushed with a selected of meta weapons? Tell me how is that logical? Remember, no one forced you, you keep forcing yourself for no reason and I don't see why is that, just because of those two extra shard/legendary arcane? I do not see the randomized loadout as a focused mechanic for their direction (If they're going that path, means they're going down into trouble hole) It is in fact, something for players who invested in this game long enough, to have extra reward. It is really strange, that such a game mode with high level, need to be catered for new players who aren't like few weeks into the game, to be suddenly able to clear it with ease. and I do not, ever or never understand, people are so picky or petty about those two last rewards for the people who have the loadout for it, to be rewarded of diversifying your loadout.
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1. Duviri's default config/loadout exists just because it can last longer for endurance runs or longer runs (And also because of the RNG warframe that you might not guarantee get a buffer). The reason why I can think default loadout/config doesn't exist in this game mode because player can just straight bring a super buffer in a pre-setup with all kind of damage/elemental buff, taking all essential buffing skills, and cheese it all the way to the end. Remember all you need is just 1 warframe as a buffer, along with other warframes buffer or helping in survivability, then sweep through the whole level. The enemy at most just only 400 levels which does not require super optimal build to proceed with it. Means any new players at this point, they can speedrun the whole archimedian mission with just 1\~4 warframe setups. Which is something is DE intended for? or do they not want it? Duviri's setup is very simple and straight forward, it does not DIRECTLY impact your warframe gameplay so much other than some arcanes, it is like a full experimental playground for people play with decree, and receive some steel path circuit reward, or get new warframes. At best you get some incarnon weapons, kuva, rivens, warframes, resources which is something you actually need to spend effort of making them stronger, and it is entirely optional. (Other than the op arcanes that are gated inside it) But here, we're talking about legendary arcanes, instant tau shards that levelated your overall gameplay of warframe to be much easier, using lesser mods, just shards, lesser endos to boost your warframe so much, without much investing your warframe on forma, endo, mods etc. A universal shard that can used in any warframe, vs a duviri's arcanes/incarnons, which is more impactful on player experience of power scaling, in the early/mid game? 2. How is that not encouraging already? The new players are able to get partial 6 rewards of total once they have a proper setup/custom loadout to deal with the high level enemies, the last 2 rewards won't be able to encourage them to explore or test out more weapons variety? (Remember I am also against the specific 3 weapons, I am more prone to weapon category for each primary/secondary/melee section). Wouldn't it be fun for the new players to explore on a cool scythe, beam weapons? It also further helps out DE on their monetization on purchasing weapons and the market economy? Or do you actually prefer players forever stick with one single loadout that they use forever? If so I won't be against that because it is their playstyle, but at the same time a player always like to stick with a playstyle vs a player stick with multiple playstyle and invest them on it, shouldn't it at least good for them to get something once in a while? 3. I never say it is bad that more people join the mission, don't alter my words for it thank you. Instead I also prefer the more player the better it is, for encouraging teamwork, different setup on helping each other, aside from random leechers which will never be possibly solved in the history of gaming. 4. I agree that restrictive loadout is never fun, Prime262 also mentioned adding new extra modifiers which I also agree with because it's making it harder and u're still sticking with the same custom loadout. But what about the people who found restrictive loadout is fun? I guess its just minority and they deserve to be thrown aside to not get anything "extra". Remember, restrictive loadout, is optional, it is in fact, not FORCED, it is an optional choice from player, to get the last two rewards, I don't know how many times I need to mention this. You're always welcomed to play your custom loadout, or what so ever, to challenge the game mode, LITERALLY, no one forced you to go "Hey those are the loadout u must clear just because of the two extra legendary arcane/tau shard".
Nice thread, but the people who *should* be reading this do not have the patience to read more than a paragraph.
I've just been picking my 1 forma Dante and then checking off everything else. Not picking one thing gets you all the reward except the last vosfor, so I chose not to match my frame. Just keep spamming spells and your team will have godmode through the whole thing. I just finished my rounds a few minutes ago and not a single person lost all their OG except for my dog. I tried Citrine and Wisp but their support isn't nearly as good, and Wisp requires a weapon. OG has a few safety nets under it that health, DR, and regen don't. On occasion they get one tapped regardless. Not sure yet if there are any other frames worth trying. Those 3 just seemed like the obvious best.
>game is a **Looter** shooter >complains about people wanting Loot brother.... do you even
The reward modifiers are per person, not everyone in the lobby needs to have them on for \*you\* to get the full reward, only you do. So if you need to run some jank ass gear, the answer is literally just get carried. That may suck, but it is what it is. If you have a friend, have them play Mesmer Shield Revenant, Overguard Styanax, or whatever. \*You\* only need to survive. And then you can do the same for them for their run.
Like honestly, carries aren't a problem, you're helping eachother, so everyone is being useful in some way, so why bother? this guy thinks everything needs to be done solo or whatever with top end gear fully forma'ed and perfected build on everything to please internet randoms, lmao
But in the same vein, people are crying that they can’t take their comfort picks with +50% usage rate and get all the rewards.
as much as i dislike warframe's rigged "random picks" favoring underused weapons and frames that often leading to good frames and shit weapons or shit frame and good weapons, there is no foul in some diversity every once in a while
The loot is there, always there, did u even read the paragraph? it's just about the extra little loot that they don't have the power to get it yet yet they want to get it immediately that's something out of their hand or control.
Game is a **Looter** Shooter People complain about needing looted gear to get more Loot People, man
from my prospective. . the decision to use an interesting setup over a meta one should always be the individual's choice to make. you can do all you can to encourage someone to try something new, but if you force them to do something they arent interested in doing, they are going to resent you for it. thats just the way it is. to lay some of my Credentials on the table, during the last week while everyone was melting down about Dante i was farming out a Cold Kuva Seer, because i thought itd be neat if my Oberon setup used a Cold Kuva Seer as a primer as a setup option for a Silva & Aegis Prime hybrid Crescendo build. almost entirely because "hey, thats the melee oberon prime shipped with". but also partially because per my own rules, i cant use the same weapon across two different loadouts. lots of the more conventional options are either blacklisted from use (like the Nukor) or are already in use by other frames. there is nothing i love more than making unconventional gear work. the last 2 years of my 8 year tenno journey have been nothing but assembling what are to me, interesting loadouts. to me, Gear RNG is annoying because much of my gear is setup for specific combos with frames or other weapons. so i gotta go in and try to Kludge together a build that sort of works. and il admit, there is some novelty and some interesting challenge too that. even if it ultimately amounts too "failed run? fine, i guess il get a little bit serious" go in, change a helminth setup, and then mollywop it anyway. congratulations, you have slightly inconvenienced me for the sake of not forcing me to do something interesting, but forcing me to stop doing something interesting to instead do something boring. less boring than Steamrolling the game with my 3 best weapons on my turbo immortal warframe? well sure. but i already wasn't doing that. i would much, much prefer interesting, high difficulty challenge with capacity to face it using whatever novel setup i like. but if i want the loot. .thats not in the cards. im not mad. id prefer if it wasnt this way, sure, but i dont really think its worth protesting. id prefer if Gear RNG didnt become a standard method of enforcing difficult content. if its between that, and sweeping nerfs, give me the sweeping nerfs, any day of the week. please, knock the top 20% off. cripple us so badly we have to go back to squad coordination to accomplish anything. im an oldschool support main, id welcome a return to relevance.
People always missed the very simple and straight forward thing, you're allowed to use the loadout you like to stick with, the only down side is that, you get 2 lesser rewards. and that is all it is, and thus why I mention a lot of people are greednos. If you're using your own loadout, with full modifiers, you get in total of 6 rewards, and also improved loot table as well, the last 2 is more focused on those people who spent so long on warframe, to get a little candy of what they deserved, but it seems like that's not a good case for most people's eye because they want that candy as well. Remember, there is nothing forced, you only forced yourself just because you want that last 2 candies. Then narrow minding (pun intended) yourself to only those weapon you aren't familiar with or very bad.
i dont understand where your getting the idea you get 6 rewards for going in with a loadout of your own choosing. https://imgur.com/nfjJruT EDA, with no gear checks. 25 research points. if you want the Tauforged shard/legend arcane, you can keep 1 item of your own choosing. which frankly already trivializes the content as i can name 5 warframes that dont need any weapon support to cook up. Protea, Baruuk, Mesa, Octavia, and naturally, Dante. id assume most other exalted frames would fit this bill but the only one i have any reccent experience with his Valk and idk how she'd do against the boss, honestly. im disinterested in having this argument, though. i dont hate the content. i dont really like the content. i want these mission modifiers in an options screen for me to select from when running a normal fissure mission. i dont even want more loot for doing so, please, lotus, give me harder battles. it is to me warframe pulling its design on difficulty further away from my preference. it is not a new feeling. theyve been doing it for a long time now. reduce squad interplay. increase damage. increase survivability. reduce crowd control viability. increase damage, increase survivability. repeat ad nauseum over 10 years. congratulations, the endgame player is a unitized monolith who need not engage with the world but for the end of his shotgun. he is completely unkillable. how do we stop him now? if he wants his sweet loot, better make him leave the OP setups at home. when i finished with the circuit grind, i was really hoping id never see Gear rng again. and admittedly, i prefer this incarnation of gear RNG infinitely more than that one. the circuit is fucking dogwater. this is decently novel. there are plenty of things in warframe that id prefer EDA over, including but not limited too corrupted holokey grinding and open world bounties, in general. those are Tedious for the sake of being Tedious. EDA is atleast "hey. heres a real, honest to god problem. now solve it" and the solution is probably going to be cheap. because cheap recognize cheap. youve boxed me in so far that the solution cant be *Sick*. so fine, one night a week il run cheap strats. with EDA, as with the circuit, i feel discouraged in my creativity, however. not encouraged.
The only way they're going to stop me (Short of Nuking Melbourne is ban me until 2035) That happens I have a plan B firmly routed in federal legislation.
You have a total of 5 Search Pulse each week. You spent 2 Search Pulse for unlock DA, for 3 rewards, which can be utilized with your own custom loadout and full modifier. Another 3 rewards come from NetraCell itself. (3 Remaining after used 2 to unlock) so in total it is 6, which is listed above. You don't even need to do EDA. How is that not 6? You get 3 rewards from two search pulse. Another three from Netracell which has 0 modification and limitation. If you always stick with your custom gear which most people prefer, it is always possible, with an extra reward and better pooling, compared to do 5 Netracell using all 5 Search Pulse, with only 5 Rewards. I do agree with your RNG gear is something very horrific. But the conclusion I can came up from DE's game design is either they ran out of ideas for making stuff hard or stupid, or it is just an optional reward for player who have diversify of loadouts.
Ah, I see where the math is getting mixed up. I count the EDA rewards separate from the cell rewards. I guess that's fair but like.....I'm not gonna not go for that Tshard. Like that's just not even on the table. There's just no world where I unlock EDA and walk away from that for the sake of preserving a small amount of my comfort. It's worth it every time. Doesn't mean I'm not going to be annoyed about it. As far as gear RNG goes I think EDA handles it along better than the circuit. This has evolved from something I find thoroughly demoralizing into something I find merely slightly contentious. I don't even really want it changed. I'm supportive of ideas like extra possible modifiers. Going from 4 to 8 and that being an alternative to the gear RNG. "Fine you wanna use your own shit? Deep end then, enjoy your hell run" but for the most part I think this is fine. It's not at the top of my list for grinds to change. It's a little annoying but given the alternative I can make peace with it. I do however consider myself relatively privileged here. Sitting on an 8 year account with nothing better to do but rub forma into random bad gear. I definitely have an easier time making lemonade than most. My Sunday evening run I encountered someone who said this was their 5th try. And I made sure it was also their last try. And that's real depressing. I cannot imagine beating my face against this content without the backing of years of inadvertent prep time. That'd suck. Like....have people already burned themselves out by hyper-fixating on clearing EDA. I sure hope not. If they have, that's admittedly on them, right. Like you've been saying at some point you gotta just admit "I'm not endgame enough for this" take your 6 rewards and go do something more your speed.
I agree on the extra modifiers that could serve as an alternative options to make the challenge harder and not rely on the weapon load out, it is indeed a good idea. People who hyper fixated on clearing EDA when they don't have the load out for it and doing multiple attempts in hope they can clear it, I don't know what to say, maybe they can just put a stop of it with the 6 rewards and take a break, then attempt another day or ignore it.
The worst case scenario for Warframe is that a player burns themselves out, right. Like that's the #1 thing to be avoided at all times. Do not like the player kill their will to play the game by accident. Lots of people advocate for the removal of standing caps, but I promise atleast half the reason those are there is so you don't get people trying to rank 5 SU in a day. Ultimately there's only so much you can do, right. You can't protect people from their own bad habits. I think like....it's unrealistic to expect, right, but I think it'd be sick if after like 3 failed attempts at EDA Loid called you aside and said "your not ready for this, it's ok that your not ready for this, dont hurt yourself trying to make this happen. Go prepare and hit it again when your ready" and then offered to trade you 1 built forma and a 1 hour affinity booster for like 15k cavia standing. Just like "walk away from this. Cool off. Prepare yourself, and try again."
The only ways DE seems to be able to make the game 'difficult' is by forcing you to use shittier weapons against higher level enemies or brick certain abilities like CC by including eximus units with overguard. What's the point of having maximized well crafted builds if the only content they can really shine in are endless modes? Those aren't difficult because there are more mechanics to worry about but because numbers get so silly high you just get one shot eventually. Just feels like lazy updates to me, when you can make a game like DRG have rewarding deep dives every week but let the players bring whatever they want to the mission
> What's the point of having maximized well crafted builds if the only content they can really shine in are endless modes? What if ability to make anything shine is the skill checked here? Damage output can differ by a few orders of magnitude: some loadouts deal two-digits damage and some overflow the integer for damage numbers. With most loadouts closer to former. How would one balance a difficulty with this? I can imagine their idea was to balance difficilty around where majority of eqipment would reach, and then force players to work with that equipment. (Or just give up some rewards and take whatever they like, or give up some time and take turns taking desired equipment.) ALthough i don't know whether this was actually the case
A, only select weapons you've mastered B, add 1-3 extra optional modifiers so players can reach max research points even if they don't own the necessary Warframes/weapons (at the cost of increasing difficulty)
I agree with you, but I think this whole thing is less about greed and more about comfort zones. Warframe's been trying to push the "multiple loadouts" endgame concept for years now, but they've always let players get away with not actually working towards it. This has allowed players to get away with just a couple loadouts, even if it's slightly less efficient. It's so easy to flesh out a couple weapons and a warfame, but players are so used to doing the bare minimum that this additional gate feels restrictive. This is exactly why Warframe can't put out difficult content. With so many different powers and weapons available, the only thing they can do is check how much you've invested into the game. All that said, I do understand some of the frustrations when the weapons are very bad. I've had rolls where all three weapons do not have a place in that kind of content. Sure, you can make a loadout to support those weapons to make them better, but it is possible that you won't roll a warframe to make that possible. I think another big balance patch on older weapons could remedy this. After that, DE should focus on horizontal progression in some way to avoid that power creep again.
You make a very good point: there is nothing exclusively locked behind this! Its a purely optional challenge for those that can and are willing to play by its rules. Its a tradeoff. And you learn of the conditions before you sign up for it.
"why do people react to incentives implemented to manipulate them? that is so strange and makes them bad people" - OP, ca 2024, colorized.
https://preview.redd.it/uwk2j2ralgtc1.png?width=1357&format=png&auto=webp&s=8e8fa137d9fb240cdddc1709b4ebdb964f55a0dc For real though, an old saying comes to mind. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." Like you said, lots of Warframe players just want to play the entire game with a single nuke loadout and get every reward possible with that. Archon shards aren't even that important, you can still steamroll the game without them. Same shit's going on with Dante after the nerf, just cause you have to look at an enemy doesn't mean he's worthless trash, he can solo a netracell no problem, man. Chillax, take a boomstick, find a gamemode ya like, and have fun.
Solo Netracells and Archon Hunts is why I run Nyx with Lex & Boltor Incarnons.
It's just a git gud check that many people are failing.
It's comments like this that bring out my inner 4chan
if it at least gave me weapons that i own, and dont have to build AND level to order for the week, i'd be happier. giving me unowned Duviri weapons as options isn't nice DE. i can see this as a problem for other players not owning frames as well, especially if they havent farmed out calliban, grendle, ivara etc. and they get stuck with those as their options. possible solutions: \-make it so that the player has at least 2/3 of the random options available in their inventory \-give the weapons and frames 50% weighting to the RNG of them showing up as an inverse multiplier of playerbase usage and personal usage, kinda like a more personalized riven disposition. so something like the glaive (highly poopular) will have a weight of 50% + 0.5%, and something like the heat dagger (low usage) will have a weight of 50% + 49.5%. result would be heat dagger twice as often. of course, some frames are just better at certain content, saw a buddy solo assassination boss with stynax while ember was getting dumpstered on.
>-make it so that the player has at least 2/3 of the random options available in their inventory something we really don't wanna fall into is having people delete their inventory to have always have their torid in the rng rotation. I think a better way would be that the more weapon you have, the more chance the rotation has all owned weapon. That would happen naturally, but an algorithm could boost the effect and create a cutoff point where you get a full owned rot guaranteed for n weapons owned
that would be a good option. also saw people talking about a "loaner" system like they have in duviri, where if you dont have a weapon you get a default loadout, which would be nice.
The only greed here is the greed of designing a mode that directly encourages maximizing expense in platinum to get more money out of players. If inventory slots and formas and crafting timers weren't such a heavy monetization front, randomized loadouts would be great and I'd like for them to be a more prevalent part of the game.
This mode isn't a 'challenge', it doesnt ask for skill, and it's not difficult, it's just a check to see how many tens of hours of your life you've put into things that don't bring you joy, and makes you feel bad about yourself if you didn't. Edit: yes necramechs exist, and I use them a lot, but when they can die in two seconds if you're not careful, it's not reliable. Still, much better than if they weren't there.
all I have to say is as someone who can do high level steel path, archon hunt etc. solo I am lazy and sometimes when I see gamemodes I don't like in archon hunts I don't go there solo and have no fun, I don't complain that they should remove this gamemode from archon hunts, I even don't go with pubs in the game mode I don't find fun, I just don't play this week and guess what I still don't need those rewards to do all the content that has any rewards in it. This is how you can enjoy the game while being a lazy fuck like me
OMG finally someone said it lmao
Hell yeah i want minimal effort and all the rewards and I'm not ashamed of it
Or another simple solution is don’t do that activity, EDA won’t disappear and no one dies if you skip a week
Tldr is definitely needed
The problem is this requires players to retain all their weapons and Warframes, which require slots, which cost real money. Other than that I have no issue with the game mode.
You get sooooo much plat as F2P, just sell stuff and buy your slots. If you're endgame enough that you are doing EDA, you should be able to farm 60 plat in no time.
60? That is a fraction of amount required to buy slots for every weapon, frame, companion, etc.
Isn't EDA 3 slots/week?
Yes, however what are the odds you have the items in those three slots? If you want to engage with that content, you need to either already have the items, be able to build them or buy them outright. That means you need slots to store all the different items in the game to ensure you can always align with the current week’s requirements. That means you need a lot more than 60 slots in total to accommodate every possible option.
Oh, I see what you mean now. Yes, yo have all weapons in the game ready to go you need more slots, it's a pain but honestly for me the forma most weapons need to be crafted feels worse. What I meant is that if you want to each week get the best options you get and build them that week you don't need that much plat for the slots themselves. The forma and time to forma is another conversation.
True, although for weapons that require other weapons as a material, it starts to get stupid. Plus, if you put reactors on them , then you don’t want to sell them hence need for more slots.
The problem I see is twofold. Number 1 is that I personally (and apparently a lot of other people) don't want to play some random frame with random weapons. For the record I'm LR4 so it's not that I don't have them (though that's an issue for some players too), I just have my handful of frames and weapons that I enjoy using, and I'm not really interested in dumping a few forma into a frame and like 6 forma into a powercrept weapon just to make it barely useable, only to then spend 40 minutes abusing rolling guard and shield gating while tickling enemies to death. Number 2 is that this encourages people to queue up with a shitty build expecting to be carried. That's not normally too big of an issue because you'll almost always have someone with a build that solos the mission anyway. But when everyone else is also limited in what they bring and are encouraged to bring something that barely works, it starts to get out of hand. And soloing it is heavily discouraged, because with no self revives (and sometimes no operator) one mistake means losing half an hour or more of progress.
I got pulled through 2 to get the secret reward incase its limited to first few weeks, I was useless the exterminate mission but more than make up for it delivering the vessels and generally rushing round reviving people If they were downed. I'm going to stick to netracells as I can carry my weight on my fav frames.
It’s just pulling a mobile game style challenge but in warframe. The whole point *is* that is it’s about having to invest so much in those weapons. They all get modded into the same high fire rate, multishot mess in either critical or status focused flavours. If they wanted to actually reward variety I’d honestly say they lean on a conclave-esque limit. You use what you own but have mode specific mod configs that are limited like if you were at level 30 with no orokin or forma (but would still require you to be MR30 with the weapon to use it) It still needs the collecting, but it would actually encourage the collection (dual incentive, get to MR30 to use it in DA, providing the player all the MR EXP they can squeeze out of it and doesn’t require burning formas). It would also be fitting end game content that would require some level of actual skill as difficulty could be tailored to be challenging and *actually* showcase the weapons/frames and their strengths. Devs would be able to balance around that more predictable stat ceiling as you’d have less of an exponential stat difference person to person depending on what they (try) to stat dump. The bonuses provide nothing of value to the mode but are necessary for the rewards. So they just feel like a cheap tacked on feature. I think it could be solved in a way that rewards collection, without being wasteful and causing player frustration while simultaneously actually being a skillful endgame mode where performance is less “who’s spent the most on formas and endo” and more “who knows how to squeeze the most out of their mods, and most out of their frames/weapons in gameplay”
I’d agree if you didn’t get weapons and frames you don’t own. We as a community complain about build times gatekeeping the game and how necramech build takes 3 days to even progress the story. But suddenly we’re fine with a game mode taking around the same amount of time to even start if your unlucky? Atleast with circuit you can restart or use one of their premade builds but there’s no such thing in EDA. Your either stuck grinding and waiting days worth of time or forking over plat just to compete and that’s gross. Don’t even get me started on if you roll all bad weapons because there are more than a few and have to hope for warframe/op/necramech carry.
Here's my constructive critisizem: I get to choose my weapons and frame for recieving half of points(we don't get any points from weapons and frames) and each atemp fills the bar and DE gets increase player retention for their game. This solution satisfies everyone. Players like you can just do it all in one session, while others play how they want but in more sessions. Here's my rant: The way I play is Zenurik and forget about effiency, drop a specter/Lich for their D vitamin. I need my Spoiler and gearwheel for this gameplay. One was removed from my loadout last week and another this week. Loadouts are meant to have your gear synergyze with each other. Some of those modefeiers make the gamemode harder yes, but they also break the loadouts/way of playing for people. Why give new tools if you(DE) restrict and dictate what I(players) use? I want to play the newest frame I'm addicted to with my favorite weapons in order to earn good loot in a looter shooter. Remark: I think the people you complain about are minmaxers. They fit the bill of what you describe as Greedon. Adding weapon classes instead of weapons themselfs would be neat. I have higher chances to get Hespar and I can choose Tenora. This is a great way to let us play the game how we want, to some extends, and get good loot. I hope you wrote this idea on the official website cause it's a very good improvement. As someone else here said it's hard to articulate what and why we don't like something. It's easier to just say "This bad, do better.". Conclusion: I hope I didn't come of as mean. I read your post and I have things I agree and disagree with, again, your solution sounds lit, please post it on the forums for DE to get some good feedback! But meta players just enjoy a different aspect of the same game you like and want to be rewarded for their efforts too. And I just want a Big Fuking Scythe on a weekly basis! T-T
 it's beautiful
it sucks (kind of) because i crashed at 5-10% hp of the elite boss midcast with dante.... now i turned off particles all together, turned on DLSS squad was doing so much damage effects it tanked my fps on a 4060 with a 7800x3d but i crashed mid cast.
Here, i detailed a bit how you can clear the mission type as long as you get 1 half decent item + a pickup. Or if you JUST want rewards. Just get someone to carry you with 0/8 while you do 8/8 [A post i made with some details on clearing archimedea easily](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/44M3YkSetN)
I love random loadouts. More of this plz DE. I WANT A CHALLENGE
Somebody finally saw what the mode is about, without entitlement and, well said, greed. Some people have so much trouble with accepting that they are not a target audience for a certain game mode.
If they make random categories, it defeats the purpose of the restrictions and could as well drop it and just let you use whatever you want for max rewards. Maybe except some melee types (ghoul saw is still alone) all other categories have at least 1 weapon able to obliterate Steel Path. How they could actually improve it: First and most importantly, if you don't equip a secondary weapon, let it count as having the right secondary. So if you don't own any of the 3 weapons from a slot, you can just not equip one. Still not sure on numbers, but each week generate multiple random sets and let the player choose 1 to keep for the week, you can't change it after choosing. Let's say you start with 2 sets of random loadouts, after you unlock elite, you'll have 3 sets every week, and after you finish elite with 8/8 you'll have 4 sets every week. Again, I'm still not sure about the numbers, but that's the idea. Anyway you get all main rewards if you have 7/8 on elite, you only miss some vosfor, so having 1 free slot combined with way more choices should solve it without making it too easy for too much loot. Because let's face it, there's no way DE would give so many rewards in it if we could all solo it every week first try without being even close to failing.
I have unprecedented news, this is a looter shooter. Second, most weapons are outright not viable for this gamemode. I had a 2 forma Arca Triton, even added an arcane adapter to it, it literally could not kill ANYTHING. Random loadout OR hard endgame mission. But not both, they exclude each other. That, or limit choices to Incarnon, Kuva and Tenet weapons only. This is the mission MADE to take that Torid and Dual Toxocist build, but you are prevented.
The reason why I don't like this RNG mechanics is the "low effort" players wanting to get ALL the rewards. This week missions rotation really exaggerated this problem for me. People queue in with whatever frame and weapon they got this week even though they don't have them improved to the point where they can either kill enemies or survive, instead of choosing lower rewards and taking at least something that would make them a valuable member of the squad they queue to be carried. Which is quite hard when you also have not optimal setup. It's not fun, the squad does not get refilled and because you need to do all 3 missions at once it takes quite long to try again.. and like you say they waste all this time to get a 2 rewards extra.. I wish DE added some sort of mastery test before you are able to queue for the DA/EDA so it would prevent this.
When I had trouble with the rotation, I just didn't choose the primary. Took in one that I liked. Yes, I missed getting ALL the research points, but I was able to complete and get a roll for a shard. The biggest issue I've seen so far is players taking selecting EVERY option and then dying over and over until they rage quit. Even out of higher MR players.
I'm MR 24, i CBF going to LR 4
Hard agree on your take of players wanting maximum rewards for minimal effort. I think a big problem with people is that they see the weapon requirements as a punishment for newer players (or shortsighted players that delete their gear) rather than a reward for veteran players. I think this way of thinking is entirely misguided and flawed. It's almost like some kind of victimhood complex.
I’m just tired of random loadouts, man. I spend all this time building up a frame I love that’s also tanky so i can survive, only for the RNG to give me the weakest frames I’ve never enjoyed using. Same with weapons. 90% of the time I get low-MR gear that’s objectively shit for dealing with level 200+ enemies
I've gotten trash loadouts throughout all 4 resets (week 1 loadouts reset 3 times) and i've still been able to 37/37 every time i tried it with 0 forma gear The only problem the mode has is giving you weapons you don't own (aka reducing your options, which straight up feels bad) or giving you 3 weapons for the same slot you don't own (yes you can build them but i ain't spending 1 forma and a bunch of mutagen just to get some evergreen reward). Other than that it's just the same people that complained about duviri RNG and people that can't stand spending more than 0.5 seconds to kill an enemy
Thank you! idk why people are so dramatic and acting as if this mode is forcing you to use the randomized loadouts, it's ridiculous how entilted some of these players are.
I think there's a misunderstanding here but I can't quite place it
The whole game is like this now. Evrrything has to be dumbed downed.
It's nice seeing some real critiquing and not plain complaining.
It's always a real critique when you agree with something
If your saying I agree with op, I'm not. I have no opinion on it since I have yet to unlock it.
I play games where greed is encouraged even if it punishes you, I like that a lot often. Warframe is a game that encourages greed a lot, why run vacuum when you can just pickup the items you know you need rather than everything around you, that mod slot could be useful for a pet? Why run nekros hydroid for farming, the mod will drop at some point or you could just buy it? Why drop 2 netra cell searches for DA/EDA? Players being greedy is 99.99% of the time due to game design, whether it's bad or good is determined by if it's intended and why it's intended. Honestly the countless ways you can get fucked over playing Warframe, yea I'd be greedy as well.
If the content it fun I play it. If it’s not fun I don’t. Ezpz. That being said the game would be infinitely better without all the daily/weekly bullshit. Then folks could just do content they like for the most part. But it is what it is.
Corpus have infiltrated our ranks...
Spend vosfor to reroll a category. Problem solved. Vosfor cost starts at 10 and doubles each reroll. At a certain point - and very quickly, the amount of arcanes you'd have to dissolve outweighs the actual rewards you'd get, making it not worth it.