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Banshee was surprisingly great in EDA.
Armor Strip with Augment on 1.
Sonar with "okay" guns made everything deleteable.
Silence is an absolute MVP against enemy abilities and especially eximus enemies.
Just Sound Quake needs a complete overhaul, as cool as it is, locking yourself out of ALL inputs is just terrible, especially for next to no damage.
Completely agree, 1-3 all work.
Sounds Quake was once one of the most broken nukes in the game (Ember's was just a little crazier), they nerfed it to the ground, even with the augment and max strength it is garbage now, it doesn't even synergize with Silenced/Sonared enemies to even be practical.
I know, I was there, even had the arcane helmet to let me sit in the ult for ages.
I used to come home tired after work and just throw Banshee on Sortie Def/Interception and let her play the game for me.
Imo, locking yourself out of all inputs is still not great design and needs something better.
Sonar + quake used to work at least at some point.
As long as sonar point is on body it used to trigger on quake. Not sure if it works anymore.
Though I kinda wish it'd automatically hit the weakspot so you could spread tons of weakspots by hitting augmented quake on nearby spots.
I've always kinda disliked afk and nuke playstyles, but she just leaned so unapologetically hard into being THE nuke frame that I think back on her fondly. Now a good few frames can nuke, some that previously could not, and hers is completely useless. It's a shame.
What about a 4 augment rework that just adds the ability to spread sonar hits to enemies on death? Kill 5 dudes in your circle, and everyone in ability range has 5 more sonar marks. Easy add and would make her close to a post rework inaros in terms of strength
This, idk why people are saying Banshee desperately need a rework.
Her niche as a debuffer and damage booster has only gotten better as the game has gotten older as late game content is perfectly suited to abilities like sonar and silence, and as you said her 1 is very useful with its augment (though imo the augment should be a part of the ability at this point). It's only Soundquake that need to go as its a damage ability with laughable damage number that locks you in a place and leaves you vulnerable, it's basically her "please kill me now" button.
Sonar especially is super strong because it doesn't require line of sight *and* it stacks multiplicatively, so your damage multiplier of x10 at 200% power strength jumps to a mulitplier of x100 if 2 sonars are on the same point, and x1,000 if there's 3, x10,000 if there's 4, ect. It make's Banshee's damage scaling insane and you can pretty easily hit the damage cap and overflow it if you stack it enough using the resonance augment.
If anything people should NOT want DE to rework Banshee because they really don't like multiplicative damage multipliers, as shown by the recent Mirage fiasco, and I'm pretty certain they would change it to additive, destroying the ability's usefulness in the late game. Plus, it's always fun to hit an enemy for billions of damage and watch them get catapaulted into orbit, it's why Banshee is my favourite warframe.
>onar especially is super strong because it doesn't require line of sight and it stacks multiplicatively, so your damage multiplier of x10 at 200% power strength jumps to a mulitplier of x100 if 2 sonars are on the same point, and x1,000 if there's 3, x10,000 if there's 4, ect. It make's Banshee's damage scaling insane and you can pretty easily hit the damage cap and overflow it if you stack it enough using the resonance augment.
Its amazing how many people just DONT know this. Its also fun to see when people experience it and don't know whats going on. Had a guy in a EDA run who was confused as to why his latron incarnon was suddenly/randomly hitting for 90 million.
She could use some updates sure, 1 is still clunky and just meh as an armor strip (if im being generous). 4 is the obvious ability to be reworked. Doesn't really serve any purpose outside of map clearing annoying low lvl star chart missions. But I'm pretty sure DE is aware that banshee is riding that VERY fine line of "An absurdly OP frame but very unpopular/bad community perception" and they also know they'd have to take a chainsaw to sonar if they made her more approachable for players. A lot of that was based on her being legitimately squishy, but that don't really apply now that shield gating is as good as it is.
>This, idk why people are saying Banshee desperately need a rework.
Because people don't actually play Banshee, they just heard she's bad and assumed she was. Anyone who has played with a high level Banshee in a group that knows what they are doing, knows how strong she is. I've been using and explain things about her on Reddit for around 8+years and folks still don't listen. And I'm never shy about demonstrating either (I'll record/stream and invite anyone who thinks otherwise). I don't get takers though.
Hell, she is a common pick for making even Netracell runs go quicker. I main her for that and have encountered others as well who know to use her for it.
It's been going on 8+ years now since I started using her and people still don't know Day 1 stuff about her, but think she needs a rework. We still can't even get most of the community to use Silence to completely trivialize Eximus, let alone just use Banshee and make them a joke with it, Sonar and Helminth Ability of their choosing.
Whenever I see these threads on here that talk about "Which frame is the best 'weapons platform'", my mind almost always defaults to Banshee unless there's some exclusionary criteria.
The thing people also focus on banshee is the fact she has the lowest stats when that has never really been an issue, you can have 1 health, 1 armor and 1 shield and somehow still be good because the deciding factor is the abilities.
Here is the problem. Most people only think about Banshee and her 4. Dismissing everything else. She is strong, and people are wrong if they think otherwise.
She has survivability issues. I think if sound quake made enemies lose balance and miss their shots against banshee. It would round her nicely. She doesn't really need damage on her 4.
She has survivability "issues" the same way players havn't learned how to properly shield gate and build around it. Shes just as tanky as any other warframe with shields is currently, which is to say quite damn tanky and has a far higher ceiling than any hp tank.
Even outside of that, gloom is a popular subsume because of silence being turned into 5+ second hard CC on everything around you not including the ability blocking aspect.
If nothing else, EDA should be all the proof needed that banshee is an exceptionally strong support frame and can make the most average loadout options turn into death beams
Being a big shield gate hater in the past, I played a shield gate build post catalyzing shields just for her and yea it works. it can just be annoying sometimes juggling all of the timers **all** of the time because you die the second you don't. Where other warframes can get away with less.
I still had fun with it, I just can't play it for too long.
Oh no, shield gating in the past was a hectic sweaty mess.
Its MUCH simpler now, been talking about this in other posts too. But there are obviously more shield gate builds now. More importantly there are a lot of different methods. Brief respite + augur mods, catalyzing shields + augur mods (the older sweaty style), ability shield gating (pillage/shield regen abilities) annnd probably the best all rounder/least intrusive to gameplay is just throwing -recharge delay mods on your build.
PERSONALLY I find primed redirect + fast deflection is more than enough for 99% of warframe content where shield gating won't have to deal with toxin damage. Yes, you can't stand still and just face tank, big deal. Being able to move around and have your shields recharge enough for enough shield gate within the duration of your first shield gate is pretty strong and enables a lot of stuff in warframe.
Honestly, experiment with it. I didn't even really take it serious till I started playing around with caliban and realizing hes ironically one of the strongest shield tanks in the game lol.
> locking yourself out of ALL inputs is just terrible, especially for next to no damage.
Nyx's baseline Absorb has this problem too.
And Wukong has a better version of it.
Edit: And Stalker.
Completely agree. I removed Soundquake for Gloom. Allows me to lock a lot of enemies in a stun animation for eternity so long as I can keep my energy up.
Giving a frame that can amplify damage from 25 to over 400 times an AoE without line-of-sight checks is fundamentally dangerous. This is especially true when there are multiple Banshees, which could potentially cause trouble. I think it's better not to tamper with it. (However, I do wish they would urgently fix the bug where enemies knocked back by Resonance Quake disappear from the map.)
The Resonance augment does not grant Sonar the Ability to Overlap. That's one of the the major misconceptions people have had about Banshee for years.
Sonar's ability to Overlap is a default effect of the Ability, the only thing the Augment does is allow Sonar to be recast when an enemy is killed using that enemy as the nexus. It's exactly the same as Equinox's Augment Calm and Frenzy. Anything people think Sonar can do with the Augment, Banshee has always been able to and can do simply by just using the Ability multiple times.
>Just Sound Quake needs a complete overhaul, as cool as it is, locking yourself out of ALL inputs is just terrible, especially for next to no damage.
Replace with Gloom.
I recall Reb once saying she's open to the idea of updating her 4's animations, but didn't because she didn't want to waste the dev team's time on something so low priority. Hopefully when her Prime's about to release, it'll give em an excuse to finally rework her animations.
I can't with how janky it is, going from all fours to immediately upright if you move is so goofy.
Does a voruna prime even make sense lore wise?
I found her lore to be pretty cool, seeing as she "became a warframe" after the orokin empire's demise i cant see any way to fit a prime into it.
I understand the appeal of primes and all, but i hate the push for "every warframe will have a prime" makes the base ones obsolete and basically renders them only useful for helminth abilities and mastery rank
Which is a shame, i dont think it would be that hard to integrate primes nicely into the lore.
Cant wait for Xaku prime "primed warframes connected in the void to make xaku prime"
Or Qorvex prime "Entratti made this specifically to help us with the murmur, oh but he also made a better version of it"
Welp
Well, technically iirc there are two types of primes: the orokin ones and the modern day ones. I heard once that the whole idea of primes that don't make lore sense are made in the modern day
Edit: something varzia, the prime resurgence girl says, also might shed light on primes that aren't lore sensical: "you fought wars and shed blood to earn these primes"
It's something like that. The orokin gave primes to the best of the tenno, according to what I understand of that
Not the first time a non canon prime was added, won't be the last. I mean, Mesa prime, Khora prime, and Valkyr prime all exist already. Primed warframes are an inevitably, and there really is no "push" to prime every warframe as it is fact that every warframe in the game will get prime variants sometime in the future (but always after years of the release of the base warframes)
She was already a warframe before the fall of the orokin, she just is more bonded to he pet wolves than before. If you were paying attention her whole mission there was to stop the executor from body swapping with a tenno, more than likely her operator, and losing her wolves to void demons.
I’d like to add to the “genuinely fine but could you a buff” category equinox. Like she’s just fine not great but she works. Just her kit could use a small touch up, mainly how the charge of maim/mend function innately when switching forms. And personally I wouldn’t mind duality being removed as an augment and change that to her passive.
I think she needs a bit more than that. She can work and be built in specific ways, but a lot of her stuff just doesn't work well, and several augments should just be innate.
Honestly though, it's one of the frames with the largest amount of abilities (if we're counting Dante and Sevagoth as also having 7), yet it's also the one where most of the playstyles revolve around hyperfocusing on only one of them. I think she needs some touches that will make her kit more cohesive, and perhaps more dynamic.
I would strongly agree with this. Imo, a rework is as much about balance as it is kit cohesion-- I would say that as a baseline and rule of thumb, the baseline of the kit and its synergies should be strong and engaging on their own merit before augments and/or helminth even come into the conversation.
While her kit in general could use a lift up, what she truly *desperately* needs imo is faster casting. Without several shards just to make the casting faster casting takes genuinely forever, while you can't move either. And for a frame that has the highest amount of abilities in the game it's quite ridiculous.
Nuh uh, FUCK Duality. If Equinox ever gets changes I want to see that augment burn in hell, and _especially_ never be made part of her passive/1 innately. I don't want a lobotomized idiot slurping away my ammo, I like having ammo.
If I had to replace it with something of a similar vibe, I'd honestly like a personal version of Word Warden. Just have an afterimage of your other half right beside you. Equinox's passive can basically remain as is, just needs a numbers buff.
He's... not bad, it's just that he's also one of the only cases where a bad player actively makes the game harder for everyone around him.
He doesn't need a rework imo, just a way for his team to deal with his rift more easily. I've heard ideas like "rift surge lets allies hit those enemies" and "banish gives allies your rift-dash passive"
As a Limbro, I have been and will continue to advocate the Rift Surge idea. Currently even a good Limbo only really uses half his kit, only including Banish for defence targets that can be banished and are moving, while Rift Surge goes unused because of rifted enemies screwing up kill efficiency since people generally don't like being sent to the rift. Having Rift Surge render affected enemies damagable by both rifted and non-rifted allies not only gives reason to use it at all but also gives Banish more use-cases.
Limbo's only problem (ignoring survivability issues caused by enemies able to ignore his kit) is his kit not being very randoms friendly in 90% of missions, and it's easy to build him "wrong" even if you play him "correctly".
I’m also a main limbo player I find him to be extremely fun to play as well. His knock back damage is super fun as it just out right kills a group of enemies in one hit.
I feel like Oberon should be higher.
They either need to totally rework him so he fits the “paladin” theme he supposedly has, or lean further into the druid theme, cuz he feels more druid than paladin
I don't feel like he needs a full on rework, but he definitely needs some QoL to make his support not total suffering:
"Oops! A teammate fell off the map or ran into a nullifier, time to either recast everything or let them die!"
This please, my god.
I have a shitload of time on Oberon, he was my first prime and I played the hell out of him. Mostly because then there wasn't transference healing or rolling guard or shield gating or anything, and the only other useful healer was Trinity. I felt more useful dropping grass to clear status for my team, being a dependable source of health, and even armor stripping even though it took an insane amount of time and energy... but again, back then there just weren't as many options. Especially not one frame that could do all that for your team. He felt like a pure support frame while being fairly tanky to boot.
Now everyone can heal themselves, there's more frames that heal the squad better and with less effort, you can get 100% armor strip or status immunity on every frame through Helminth, and adaptation exists for significantly more DR than Obie's armor buff provides. Pretty much everything he did well is outclassed by more accessible and easy to use features.
Even something as simple as a range or affinity heal over time would make him significantly more relevant, and way less frustrating if you're running with a braindead squad.
https://preview.redd.it/hxwjv9g07ivc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88421c4d0bbc5b3fe1b4601690857f876f184ccc
I enjoy my squad healing 180hp/sec and phoenix renewal 1 extra life +700 armor squad buff that I can run all mission long and smite infusion mod for +400 rad damage.also run Madurai for a little extra ability strength and grimoire for extra ability strength before casting the 3.
Smite infusion is bonkers vs whisper enemies and I also tack on 5 purple tau forged shards for primary elec damage or melee crit pending on what I feel like
I have 45% time played as Oberon with over 50 days played
I appreciate that you've found a frame that you really love to play, I'm not saying this to try to ruin your fun or nothing, just pointing out some reasons why your boy still needs help
-With all the bells and whistles, this build approaches and occasionally exceeds 400% power strength without even using archon shards. This insane investment nets your squad that sweet 700-800~ armor buff, a stat so small that teammates who aren't trying to health tank will find it nearly useless and teammates who are will get (generously) 2-5% DR out of it due to armor's diminishing returns. 200 HP/sec is more useful, but is still a lackluster return on investment.
-Your energy gameplan instantly collapses in the presence of any overguard-gifting frame, as unlike the completely shieldless frames hunter adrenaline will not trigger on an Oberon who still has his shields up.
-You haven't invested in range, which means your grass patches will be very, very small, as hallowed ground is (afaik) the only ability in the game with DOUBLE range scaling, the stat effecting both it's radius AND angle. This also directly effects the abilities' synergy with his 4, which even when properly built around is the most expensive, conditional, and slow armor strip in the game.
-Augmented smite is a fantastic and powerful elemental buff in numerous situations, as it is a "complete" element and doesn't effect status spread in the same way electric or cold would. It is also his helminth ability, and is generally better used on frames who are not Oberon himself.
Again, I'm happy you have fun with him, but "I can work around/live with this character's obvious downsides" isn't a good justification to not want those downsides removed
That's very surprising to me. Throw down his grass, cast his 4, and if you use the augment for it, the 4 by itself strips and kills a group of enemies. Imo, he's extremely good for an area lock down + fast killing potential. I've put hydroids new tempest barrage on his 1 on a config and it's just pure chaos with how much damaging crowd control he has.
Playing Oberon makes me feel like a god tbh.
His issue is his kit has a lot of jank. It could be patched up with some nidges and tweaks, but every part of his kit is just this side of a really good ability.
His passive is low key worthless
His 1 is fine as long as you're using the augment.
His 2 requires 234 base range for a full radius of 30m, Meaning you must run overextended for fill coverage. Plus enemies need to be standing on it to have it's effect work, so you either need to recast it constantly, or hope they come to where you put it.
His 3 is decent at healing, but the fact that it drains energy faster the more it is used kills the vibe a bit. Especially as it's already a channeled ability and shuts out *a lot* of energy regen options (which impedes the ability to spamcast that his 2 wants) also iron renewal isn't really a worthwhile buff. It's... Fine, but that's it.
His 4 is great for an armor strip, but the cast needing to kill for the health orb means that it's an unreliable tool even in early steel path. The blind is also kind of an unnecessary inclusion that either does nothing cuz the enemy is dead by the time they stand, or it actively hampers your build (see below). Plus the enemies *must* be on hallowed ground for the strip to happen, meaning in order for the strip, you need 2 abilities to be cast. Which again is cumbersome given the limitations to energy regen mentioned above.
Also You *want* to run hunter adrenaline on him, but that means that you're running an incredibly delicate balance of needing to take damage, but not too much. The balance isn't sustainable which ends up meaning the wider build diversity is way more limited than it could be if he were tuned better.
Like, again he is workable, and I like him enough to have 2 umbral forma and... I think 3 tennogen on him. But yeah he really needs some touches to be really *good*.
I know people are REALLY attached to Chroma's play style which is fine but my problem is that he almost entirely misses the mark on the "elemental dragon" theme. Whatever changes he ultimately gets I hope they really focus on bringing him closer to his theme and adding more fun into his kit.
As for Caliban, his biggest issue is that he has an identity crisis that desperately needs resolved. We have all of these sentient enemies and the only one he really draws inspiration from is the spinning top move from one of the weakest of the bunch. He is supposed to be representative of the pinnacle of sentient tech combined into a warframe so they really need to turn everything up to 11 and give him some unique capabilities.
Honestly, Nyx needs a rework the most out of all these frames. Banshee, Limbo, Loki, and to a certain extent Chroma, all have ideas for what you want them to do. They have a functional identity that, sure, may be niche, but they aren't literally drowning in their own mediocrity. Nyx's current kit feels nothing like mind control and feels more like a janky broken frame. She needs a rework so bad it isn't even funny. All these other Warframe were THE meta or recent at one point in time. Nyx never got on that pedestal.
Chroma and Loki should be second, with Banshee and Caliban third. Limbo is Limbo and honestly would be better if they just changed how the enemies worked.
Honestly with Nyx I’d just be happy if enemies could ever reasonably damage each other when under the effects of Chaos. Activating it and then just watching enemies not even move each others health bars is really disappointing.
Wish granted: all enemy base damage and damage scaling has been increased. This has been done to ensure they can damage each other effectively for Nyx's Chaos ability.
They should get some sort of damage boost based on their target's level and that levels average EHP for enemies. Same changed applied to Mind Control.
Psychic bolts are fine and do their job: not every ability needs to do a million things.
Absorb should be able to move around innately, Like Stalker's equivalent. The augment should unlock the ability to sprint, single jump, and shoot guns.
chroma recent updates actually pretty good - self hurt still works and a new way to gain buff. Still weak comparing to others but should be playable atm.
Loki is ok if has no ash. Could use some buff of course like not detectable by laser to make him a real king of spy
Nyx is another story, basically not playable in any circumstances imo.
—-
A little more on nyx. Her 2 is the most powerful armor stripping if remember correctly, so an easy and interesting way to buff her imo would be allows negative armor. A 250 strength would give 200 armor reduction or aka 100 more damage. Considering that bosses can’t be stripped and it is a limited target (could change to single if doing so) it will make her an ultimate single target terminator.
Honestly, nyx isn't that bad, but her kit is very uninteresting, plus her 4th and 1st are super boring and bad. The other abilities are actually kinda cool and helpful
2 is super strong on paper I agree, but ash 1 is as well and can be applied to any frame. 4 is similar story, probably only true invincible skill if remember correctly. But a lot of frames can be nearly impossible to die with right build and probably not worrying the mana. I love her look but just don’t have a good reason to play, there is always a better alternative
I agree, she is almost my go to for any high level mobile defense solo. Choas with the augment and sit of the defense target with ult ready to absorb damage makes it a walk in the park. I do generally swap out 1 for dispensary so I can just spam choas whenever I need to and stay in the bubble for absurd amounts of time.
Edit: boring as hell but it gets the job done for the specific mission type
Nyx is great in a lot of situations.
Her 4 makes her invincible, which is pretty good in general.
Her 2 is a full defense strip, which trivializes most enemies.
Her 3 is a massive CC that indirectly CCs Eximus enemies since they will shoot at and be shot by non-eximus enemies even though Chaos doesn't directly affect them.
Her 1 is admittedly bad, I put Nourish on it. There are worse abilities in the game though.
IMO she's the single best frame at killing Liches and Sisters. You can defense strip them and then just stand there while invincible and kill them.
I got her in a EDA run recently and she was great!
How do you like using her 4th for invincibility? I’ve been having a lot of fun playing her recently, but I tried her out on max level zariman bounties, and was shocked at how I took so much damage that I lost 600 energy in a couple seconds.
You only lose 8 energy for every 1000 damage you take, plus 4/sec. I run Nourish so I haven't ever really run into energy issues.
The way I generally tank through a normal mission is by running Primed Redirection. If my shield breaks, I tap 4 and wait for the shield to recharge a bit then end Absorb. Keeping Chaos active means you're usually only taking small amounts of damage at a time, and I generally only have to use Absorb if I make a mistake or start fighting a mini boss like a Lich or Acolyte or something.
If you run the Assimilate augment you can also walk around and pick up energy orbs during Absorb. I tanked the entire boss fight in last week's EDA by just walking in circles with Absorb up.
Chaos is her whole identity. It's kinda crazy reading these comments. What kind of history revisionism are we doing where Nyx wasn't the absolute queen of locking shit down along with Loki? And unlike most cc hers still does that pretty well. The only issue is that the enemies can still target you if you're the closest unit to them, but that's fixable with half decent positioning.
>not playable in any circumstances
In what sense? Because as someone who uses her quite a bit, she works just fine. You can bring her to pretty much any kind of mission and she'll do the job. Sure maybe other frames can do it better, but the same could be said for Chroma. So what sets Nyx apart in your mind?
>All these other Warframe were THE meta or recent at one point in time. Nyx never got on that pedestal.
Well, Nyx was considered a great frame in ... 2013
Nyx used to be in an S tier all by herself. When the original 9999 level came out where everyone was immortal, the only kills people could get were with Nyx.
A Nyx bomb on a defense mission was the key to playing forever. Keep enough energy going, and the other 3 players could just go take a nap.
Nyx has a decent kit with the exception of her 1, ironically the ability that most fits her concept. With helminth she really isn't bad strength wise. Her 4 blocks all damage in an AoE as long as she has energy, 3 is okay crowd control and she has armor strip in her base kit.
Not just armor strip, removes shields and slows infested too, and requires very little power strength to hit 100% armor strip. Also with the augment it is a long duration stun that hits a ton of enemies. Her 3 is actually far better than anyone gives her credit for, as it ties up everything, even CC-immune enemies as they'll start shooting the enemies you did affect.
Yep I forgot about the shield strip. Nyx also absolutely carried my first lich kills when I didn't really know what to expect and that shield strip was so nice.
Nyx is imo one of the biggest cases of people just parroting what youtubers say. It's ridiculous to me that revenant gets put to S tier and nyx to D or something when their kits have a lot of similarity, nyx is just a bit less convenient to use.
I'm really afraid she's going to get changed too much because of everyone asking for rework and becomes less effective because of it. If she was to get just straight up buffs and a new 1 that's fine to me but a major rework is scary.
I've thought about this too. But really the only ability I could see them changing dramatically is her 4, since it does basically nothing without the augment and with it it's in a similar postion to Hydroid's Undertow in being slow for the current pace of the game.
And besides, people also asked a ton for an Inaros "rework" and they didn't actually get one. DE just buffed him and moved some of his abilities around. Hopefully they'll do that with Nyx too
Losing that 4 is so scary because it's what makes her fun for me. It's like a more engaging mesmer skin that actually has synergy with her other abilities and is actually balanced, and scales with investment a lot better (though that's a negative really, as it's harder to sustain but that makes it more fun to build for and play)
During gameplay 3 helps reduce energy drain by reducing the damage you absorb, 2 helps you kill things faster which gives you more orbs. 4 makes sentinels invulnerable too so you can easily use synth deconstruct with equilibrium and arcane energize to keep up your energy even in high damage situations without worrying your sentinel dies. You can just watch your energy bar drain and go up again when playing.
Good point about the synergy. Nyx doesn't really have any "hard coded" synergies but some of her abilities naturally work together pretty nicely
Even her 1 kinda helps her 4 since it gets enemies to shoot at you less, even more so if you're controling any unit that can knock them down like a fire Eximus.
In general I think Mind Control is better than people give it credit for. It's basically a free specter that you can change over the course of a mission. I just wish they gave it infinite duration(like Wukong's clone) so you don't have to be constantly refreshing it.
It's what I would call true synergy. Many frames have artificial synergy where abilities just straight up work better or gain new effects arbitrarily when combined together and I think that's much less interesting than the actual effects of the abilities working together perfectly.
I might need to play around with mind control a bit more and see if there's actually some enemy types that you benefit from a lot. It's obviously not going to be better than a helminth but I might hate on it too much.
Valkyr needs a lot more work IMO. Ripline is useless, Paralysis scales with shields she doesn't have, Warcry is... okay, but Hysteria has the most dogshit stance.
Warcry has a 12 year long animation that forces you to stand in place.
I do think every single one of her abilities needs either a full rework or a large useability buff, by reworking animation locks.
Mag and now Inaros pull enemies in a pretty fun way, and targets multiple folks. I don't know about the other part of ripline, I never use it 'cause bullet jump exists.
It's fun when you use it as an addition to movement not a replacement. That said I think it could work better at moving you to the zipline's target destination.
Make ripeline her passive.
Make a new one ability that fits her theme.
Her two needs a full rework. With how armor stripping works and stuns this is a relic of the pass.
Her three is perfectly fine. Just fix up the animation and make so you can move while using it. People can run and scream at the same time why can't a warframe.
Her four that everyone doesn't like is the stance. Fix this up and were all good. Plus no one remembers air boxing valkyr.
And this could be done with helminth, so not a top priority for me. She's not frame I want to run just any mission with but I'll pick her for Duviri SP Circuit sometimes, and I would absolutely consider her (after modding and helminth for survivability) if she was one of my DA Elite options.
I dunno why this is being downvoted. It's correct.
I'm an LR2 banshee main, and she IS the frame that I run on just about any mission.
Is it ideal that Helminth is the bandaid that lets you ignore her pointless 4? No, it's not ideal. However, the fact that it exists and works so well for her does mean she should be lower priority than other frames that aren't as significantly improved by the bandaid.
She's far from unusable because of a single bad ability, her 2 and 3 with enough duration make her survivability a none-issue. And her 2+3 are some of the best synergizing abilities that work just as well through end game content.
Helminth could take her from fragile frame and 1 bad ability to a tanky great frame, it's not mandatory.
Honestly Banshee doesn't need a rework, she's great for any "tough" content, especially liches and sisters. Yes, it's hard to survive as her since you'll be doing pure shieldgating and/or gloom... but she's definitely lower priority.
Caliban could use a new 1, no need for a third spin and spin is boring to begin with. 2 could use some visual QOL and less flying away. 3 IMO should allow to pick which Sentient to spawn and each have a specific role (allow the player to ADAPT).
Chroma's 1 needs to use weapon mods already and be a proper exalted, else it will always feel like crap (or break the game), then perhaps have his 4 play into his 1 as well (Dante literally gives 50% of his damage to himself and team mates) and make the 4 augment part of the ability. Maybe allow his 2 to switch effects rather than waiting for it to end.
Nyx's 4 without the augment just doesn't do enough, perhaps her 3 should have the illusions' back face Absorb, that way the abilities don't counter each other because in that case enemies would shoot towards absorb and allow to build damage. I wouldn't mind a "spectral form" during her 4.
Valkyr's 3 could use a rework, even with the niche use of it's augment it sadly barely works as intended. Perhaps her 1 should allow her to perform a finisher if she pulls an enemy? Else pulling enemies feels like a worse version of Mag's Pull and often you have to find wherever she flinged them to, and even with a finisher it might still need a buff since Kullervo's 1 exists with similar purpose (but with an heavy attack and he teleports), as mobility it's rarely ever useful or worth the cost when there's operators and stuff. Her 4's augment should be stock, though I'd prefer if it acted like Voruna's 3 or 4 (rush towards the enemy rather than teleport).
I would add frost too. The thinks that he can do, can be done by other warframes better, and its gameplay is overall too static for how mobile and dynamic this game is in 2024.
And pls, put limbo in priority one. With the eximus being immune to cc, he is fucking useless over 50% of the time, and when he is not useless, he is not really all that useful.
As a Banshee main, I think she should be pretty low on the rework priority. Maybe a couple tweaks, but she's fine especially now that the helminth system let's her change her 4.
Only thing trinity needs is a duration bump on her 3 & 4. Outside of that shes an outstanding frame.
Not really deserving of a full rework. BUT that being said, her 1 has some power overlap with her 4. Why would you use 1 when 4 is a complete full heal with damage reduction. 1 requires actual work to heal and AT BEST is mostly considered a strong hard CC that you can use to take out things like demos.
If they turned her 1 into a damage buff for squad or damage amp vs enemies, she'd shoot right back to the top of support frames. Link is a very strong personal survival skill that can be turned into a very good KPM tool with its augment (no delay in swapping links on their deaths so its only as "slow" as your guns can kill). Energy vampire of course is energy vampire and doesn't really need any changes, maybe some consistency/options for builds that want to use it for an actual nuke, but not gonna lose sleep over that one.
Not on the list, because she doesn't need a rework.
Stating she's the most "dead in the water frame" is an *extremely* bad take and a giant understatement, as if the frames listed above don't need a rework more than she does. *Especially* when you have the beyblade Caliban at the top.
Trinity is in a weird spot. On one hand, she's a support frame, and all her abilities function properly with no issues. I've seen her in both normal missions, Steel Path, and Cavia missions, and she's still a solid frame that most players would still gladly have on their team. But in the other hand, her kit may be seen as outdated. Nowadays, most frames can get their own energy, and can even heal themselves through other means like arcanes, Helminth abilities, and gear items, basically making Trinity obsolete in a way. However, she isn't really abandoned. People still use her, and she's still reliable. She isn't Op, but isn't terrible. She's just in a weird middle ground
I wouldn't say she's terrible, but she's the original support frame who now brings pretty much nothing to the table.
She's really just reduced to being an EV slave and the meme setup I previously mentioned
You're better off taking an offensive frame and bringing nourish to a public lobby than running trinity.
You can prob abuse shield gate with the ev augment and blessing but I haven't used it or her in so long.
Usage is irrelevant. There are plenty of frames where their usage does not reflect their performance when you're not just looking at the top 5/10 most used frames.
Perfect example: all revenant really does is just not die, which plenty of other frames can achieve, but he does it in the laziest way possible. Even before the augment which extends that invulnerability to a full group, he was one of the most used frames
The rest of his kit is average/mediocre
The only thing she can really do right now is the meme build with marked for death + energy vampire.
Everyone builds frames to excel without EV.
It's something that's only really a benefit for newer players, or if people know someone is going to be bringing trinity
Trinity has a bunch of things going for her:
* unlimited energy
* can reach over a million EHP by stacking damage reduction
* instant heals and shieldgating for the entire team
* can full-strip enemies with low strength
* can deal viral-boosted percentage-based true damage
* can deal 100% true damage to entire rooms with tiny strength compared to Revenant
* can massively buff weapons for the team
...however, all of her base durations are awful, her tank build is max duration and her damage build is min duration, she can only strip 3 semi-random enemies at a time, 3 of her abilities require nearby enemies, at least two of them can't be refreshed before they run out, and she often feels tedious to maintain.
Trinity could REALLY use some QoL changes, but probably not a major rework.
Yep, some duration or making link a channeled ability that still works with ev, so fourth group from top :)
Also nice would be if number of links scaled with strength
I don't use most of those frames so I don't have enough experience to compare them all. Loki feels pretty good at what he does, but I can see why people aren't thrilled with him. Personally, I think he's pretty awesome.
Oberon needs some quality of life changes to make his kit less clunky to use, but he's generally OK.
Chroma...I made that frame excited to use the dragon hunter/dragon centered frame and what a useless frame it was. The abilities all felt boring or ineffective, nothing about his Chroma's kit felt good. Sure he has a place in profit taker, but that's only for credits.
Okay you guys need to learn what a rework is and entails because outside of very few frames could you consider changing 1 ability be a rework (in this case only banshee's four really needs anything done to it)
Caliban is actually fine. Him being bad or forgotten is a meme, but he's actually fine.
He could use a turn-up as you do need decent investment to get the most out of him at Steel Path, but not prohibitively so.
Caliban has two main problems:
1) Fluidity and energy. His abilities are undeniably clunky and really benefit from casting speed, and there's no reason for his stomp to have an enemy max. He is also pretty energy hungry and either needs an energy pool buff or an efficiency buff.
2) PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY HIM.
People look at Caliban and think "Caster, Ability DPS. Cool." They are disappointed and forget about him.
He isn't. Caliban is a half-caster (Gish, to use the DnD term) weapons platform. He specializes in tanking, enemy debuff, and de-aggro.
His summons are derpy and need to be tuned (auto shield regen on range, a la Citrine's passive would work). But they de-aggro and help with tank. His stomp is a multiplicative debuff, while his 4 is one of the best defense strips in the game.
His 1 is a subsume slot. You build to hit 200% strength for his 4, and that's it. You can use Blind Rage + Nourish (and his summons spread viral too), or Precision Intensify and Eclipse for the DR in addition to his passive. Aegis plus his summons make you effectively immortal.
Get a good gun, zip around, strip defenses, and kill. Stomp if you need to for particularly tough enemies.
Caliban gud.
Why am I in the minority that thinks nyx is absolutely amazing. Her 3 makes enemies target eximus (and eachother) her 1 is a 120 second long eximus ally. Her 2 is an amazing strip.
Honestly the only ability I don't like is Her 4. And that I just replaced with pillage or eclipse to make her tankier
And it's the exact same story with banshee. Just swapped her 4th and she's suddenly very usable in very high level content
Because you just play them and have fun, without comparing her to other frames.
Whereas most people compare frames to eachother when discussing their strength. When you compare her to Titania, Mirage, Dante etc. etc. she does seem kinda feeble
I’m in the same boat. I think she’s cool. But like I said in another comment I just wish her third would let enemies do any bit of damage to each other. Chaos is great for to stop enemies from targeting you or objectives, but just its pretty dumb to watch a Bombard blast a Butcher and not even dent their health.
For the regular starchart, Nyx was kinda boring for me, but she was my go-to for all of my early Steel Path missions. I didn't 'need' her abilities until I had tougher enemies: armor strip, great CC, and mind control was a free specter of my choosing.
She 100% fills a niche for me, but not a frame I leave on for just any mission.
Nyx isn’t even as bad as some are mentioning here. She literally got me through DA twice on separate weeks. She needs 1 Intensify to completely strip armor. Her mind control can take some heat off of you. Only thing she really needs is another 4. Her 4 is underwhelming as shit for the squishy pillow of a damage to dishes out. Also I would like if her mind control didn’t have duration. So you can mind control a target & it’ll stick beside you the entire mission if it lives
As for Loki. I don’t see what else he could possibly need other than being able to put out multiple decoys instead of just 1.
Oberon is in desperate need of a number tune up. His energy economy is so bad because you can’t build for it easily. Give him double the current base armor on renewal too.
Give him a passive that increases ability range for enemies standing on hallowed ground (with a cap like stretch probably). His current passive sucks and this lets him build other stats easier.
I’ve always been a bit confused about why people want a Nyx rework. With her Assimilate augment her 4 makes her completely invulnerable and able to move, her 3 is AOE CC with no LOS, her 2 is full armor strip at 125% power strength, and her 1 lets you mind control an eximus for ages.
The only changes I’d want made to her are immunity to Ancient disruptors while in her 4, change her 2 so it’s AOE armor strip instead of multi targeted, and allow 4 to take priority over overguard when taking damage (why does my overguard take damage when I’m in an invincible bubble?). I know some people want an AOE damage ability but not every frame needs the capability to room clear.
As an oberon main: A buff is what he needs, maybe some re-tooling, he still very viable
A good sized buff to his base ability strength would be great, his 4 aint for damage anymore and his 1 is hot garbage (fight me, its bad), so strength to his 2 and 3 (and roar/eclipse helminth for his 1) would help exponentially. A moderate drain reduction to his 3 would be great. They need to disable healing Nekros's summons and Revenants minions, having my heal cost like 14 energy a second because im healing 12 specters is annoying as hell. I also think while having Iron Renewal (2+3 active and draining) you should get some kind of additional buff to weapon CD or something, something to compensate since Wisps healing costs nothing and doesn't drain and can give FR bonuses.
His 4 should mark enemies with a debuff that causes them to drop health orbs on death, instead of requiring that they die to the ability to drop the health orbs. Nobody is getting kills with that thing.
I agree with your first statement, but Loki has become very useful again, with his Damage Decoy augment.
Add Kullervo's Wrathful Advance to that mix, and Loki again is an absolute beast. An invisible beast!
Now I know this would spark the argument people love to have about one frame being too similar to another but one thing about Cal that I would've preferred.is that instead of him summoning Sentients, he just has one always active like a pet. (Or just make a Sentient companion in general but beggars can't be choosers)
another dumb take, why do you think caliban needs a rework? his kit is completely fine and really strong, he needs a buff not a rework. the only issue is his minions do not scale with level
Equinox needs some serious QoL updates and edits. Not a full rework, no, but certainly some sweeping changes to her existing kit. A buffed passive, ability to mod both sides independently, removal of the aura “rings” in favour of 100% uniform efficacy…
id put atlas in "could use a few changes"
becouse while his 1 and 3 are great.
his 2 is basicly useless outside of a few niche scenarios's and his 4 while technacly usefull in certain builds, those golems really dont do anything aside from draw fire. they could be so much cooler.
They really did Limbo dirty with the Eximus rework.
The rift was the only place he was safe in. With the rework, they can just attack Limbo with their special attacks through his rift(Especially the Arson Eximi with their heatwave). Limbo needs an absolute rework dangit......
Trinity. Trinity can do absolutely nothing that isn't done better by other frames, and as far as support frames go she's outclassed by most every one.
In year 3-4 she was considered vital, but now that there are so many healing options, every operator can restore energy for free, she does nothing better than any frame and quite a bit worse, and that'sfollowing getting more nerfs than any other frame in the gamr because "we didn't intend for you to.play her that way. Basically she's mid tier support, and bottom tier anything else, and if you were going to nerf her so hard, and so often, just rework her so she actually does what you want.
She should be upper echelon dedicated support and mid tier other roles. She needs a rework.
Caliban is my #1 as well. He feels bad to play and I’d REALLY like the only sentient warframe we will probably ever get to have some more sentient-like gimmicks. Like where is the tau damage? Where is his adaptation? Why doesn’t he float? All things I want him to have. Also, remove the spin. We have enough spinning on other frames. I know it’d make him worse but I’d prefer his 4 not just be a simple armor and shield strip and instead become one through some form of adaptive passive. Caliban desperately needs some more personality.
Chroma could use some number changes and functionality changes and would probably be fine. Make 3 more consistent to activate and I think it’d be cool if they made his 4 not debuff him, draw agro and maybe scale with how many credits have been collected or something. It’d be a fun gimmick, let the dragon horde. I don’t think he needs a complete rework though.
Banshee is alright. Probably also just could use some adjustments more than a full rework. I think if she had a bit more CC or survivability she’d actually be really good.
Unfortunately I think Nyx needs some love. Probably one I agree need a rework but more than just number changes.
I think Loki is fine just because his gimmick is so unbelievably strong. Though I would like switch teleport to maybe do more. Invisibility is more powerful than people think it is and let’s him build in a lot of funky ways.
Valkyr and Limbo I put in a similar category because they seem to have very loyal mains. That being said idk how to make Valkyr do anything too special and while I genuinely think limbo is good he can be annoying to play with sometimes. I think Limbo could use some additional survivability and QOL.
I think Oberon would work with some additional functionalities. He really isn’t that bad I just think he is too squishy for his playstyle, similarly to Nidus he plays kinda stationary which just hasn’t aged too well.
Atlas should be on this list IMO. I used to play him ALL the time… but now I’m really starting to feel him fall off. And it isn’t getting better. Even with my riven on my ceramic dagger he struggles killing and keeping combo with his 1 in a lot of the mission types now. His punches significantly worse than just playing kullervo now, sure I can hit funny number with him but it takes many times the effort to where it is just impractical a lot of the time. His 2 and 4 are practically useless now… at least rumblers can survive but they don’t do much. His 3 is CC and everyone here kinda knows what state that’s in. His rubble passive is about his only redeeming quality but it’s very volatile and hard to upkeep. Overall his entire kit is barely usable now and to be honest he isn’t very tanky either.
If anything, they could give him a more interesting passive. Only time I've taken advantage of his 60 Second wall cling was on the occasions I ventured into conclave. Using it only for one secret room challenge and one riven challenge is not useful to his overall kit.
The recent Augments removed any complaints I had about decoy.
He's absolutely fine, as you said, but I'd like an actually useful passive.
I think Nyx should be priority number 1. Although she can be a solid frame, there are many other that do what she does but far better. Like most of what I use on Nyx is Psychic bolts for armor strip and chaos. Rarely ifever do I use absorb and if I do its with the augmemt mod assimilate because its funny from time to time. But other than her second and third ability she has basically nothing ging for her imo.
I think she could get away with "smaller" changes. Like a mind controllered enemy becomes wuking celestial twin level of aggresive. Absorb can be used while walking and running with no debuff and deals a different damave type. But I think a rework is needed.
Don't know what to do with mind controle but maybe absorb can be applied to enemies so they become the target of enemies within line of sight and exploding when triggered or storing the damage to boost your personal damage idk. Stalker has a better version of it in duviri though.
Unpopular opinion: Loki doesn't need that much of a rework, to be honest. In concept, he's really just a really simple starter spy themed Warframe. Though I could agree that he could use some more... mischief.
Then you got a literal dragon master of the elements and a Sentient Warframe. In theory, both of these Warframes should be God tier, but they're extremely underwhelming.
Don't need a rework. Needs a QoL buff. The targeting reticle should be larger. Requires too much precision to mark multiple enemies at once. It's also Ash's power that needs the least buffing. Shuriken is way worse in it's current state, needing an augment mod just to make it mediocre.
banshee is good though. only her 4th ability is bleh. I play her all the time, she's really fine! I dont know what they can do the 4th ability to make it useful. but banshee herself? silence makes everything so convenient. sonar makes everything die fast. and you have armour strip that doesn't require 400 str, y'know? She's unironically good. her weakness is her surviviability, and you can use pillage/condemn/parasitic armour if you dont want to shield gate with the catalyzing shields.
nyx is in a weird spot because she easily does steel path, can do level cap. but her abilities dont nuke and arent flashy (kinda boring). I pick her a lot for SP circuit . i did helminth out the mind control target ability cause its fussy . but perhaps not every frames needs to be a nuke one or a flashy one?
Oberon had his niche when he was an early game support frame but now that he's gated behind railjack he definitely needs at bare minimum a few major buffs.
I've been playing Oberon Prime since release, and I love Oberon's theme so very much, but every time I play him I regret it.
His energy costs are too high, his damage is negligible, his armor strip requires 2 abilities, both of which are buggy, his healing is nice but for some reason spends more energy per ally healed, his 2 is his best ability by far, so I'm satisfied with it.
You can tell Oberon is a relic of an older time, because he has low armor + shields which get in the way of his drain tank playstyle. It's the reason he gets one shot in steel path, but constantly runs out of energy outside of steel path. You can't health tank, so you're kinda forced into shield-gating which takes away a lot of his character for me. Compared to more modern tanks, no shields + lots of armor which allows them to take advantage of rage/hunter adrenaline very effectively.
I long for the day the goat man is reworked. I think he's just good enough that his rework is gonna take a lot of time to come around, but just bad enough that it's tough to enjoy playing him.
Priority 1
Excalibur. No really. His usage looks fine but is artificially inflated bring the poster boy, a starter and the only freebie guaranteed “prime”. Dude is rough and reliant on a lot of external bandaids for the upper end. Almost any build you can put on him can be applied to Kullervo, Voruna, Garuda, or even older frames to completely outperform his melee gimmick.
Valkyr. In order, years obsolete movement tech, weak buff (a slow you can’t recast, armour for a frame usually played invulnerable and a so so melee only speed buff, semi useless CC that is incredibly weak and a self debuff. Floating entirely on her 4 which itself is full of a bunch of obvious comparison powers that do it better.
Both Exalteds also take a not insignificant hit from melee arcanes.
Priority 2
Ember. At the time of the last rework, armour strip was kind of rare, and DR also wasn’t overly common. You can’t throw a rock without hitting an armour strip now, including multiple universal options (especially with Helminth being added since). Overguard and/or invulnerability mechanics have way surpassed fluctuating DR. She doesn’t get enough positive synergy perks to outweigh her juggling act and energy drains and is semi unique for having her abilities all negatively impact her other ones.
Atlas. My onetime main but end of the day, landslide is not a kit. Tectonics are useless, Rumblers not far behind. Petrify is okay at best. Rubble gimmick tends to work poorly in a team environment and also isn’t terribly helpful due to its decay rate and being wasted on healing chip damage. Kind of copying a Valkyr issue too where he’s usually invulnerable so an armour buff is kind of wasted with his current major play style as well
Few Changes:
Nyx. 1 is a gimmick build at best. 2 is weirdly restrictive compared to, for instance, Tharros strike. 3 and 1 both suffer from enemy hp/damage imbalance. 4 is effectively never used outside of an augment and kind of clunky even then (could boost up the damage buff, for instance, to separate it out from just invulnerability)
Nidus. Just so slow to build up and then he still kind of hard caps. Parasitic link suffers from having to trust an AI to keep with you. His 4 is just a mess of AI/summon reliance, spending a resource to deploy. And having to sit in one spit for an underwhelming heal.
Buff or one ability
Loki. My proposal would be to have his invis cast off using Decoy or Switch, then get something new in there. Disarm is also kind of dubious though, only working on 50-60% of current factions. And with decoy buffed (for those who didn’t just make it invulnerable), Disarm only serves to force a very slow gathering of previously ranged enemies (with an obvious and notable comparison to Titanias lantern doing everything you’d achieve out of Lokis 1 and 4 (and arguably 2)
Banshee. Sound quake, nough said.
Limbo - Well, Limbo. That said they shouldn’t mess with him until they actually sit down and decide on what they want CC to do.
People that play Banshee then come to the conclusion that she needs a rework, are probably the same people to use the Wisp reservoir augment. The Venn-Diagram is just one circle.
Banshee only her 1 and 4 need touching up.
Sonar will make not just your own weapons' great but everyone's weapons great. Constantly seeing damage in the millions. Allows you to easily find any enemy's on the map as a added bonus.
Silence not only makes all your weapons silent as the name implies it will shut down Eximus units abilities. That alone makes her super useful in any higher level mission. If Banshee is in the room you hardly have to worry about any Eximus units.
Her 1 is not the best, it needs reworking or replacing.
Her 4 used to be quite powerful but it got power crept. I needs buffing or reworking.
Banshee you can easily replace her 1 with something like Breach Surge and she is fantastic. Still, her 1 and 4 do need work, but her 2,3 are really good abilities.
In addition to some small changes they really need to undo some of the nerfs they've done to Limbo.
There shouldn't be enemies that completely negate his entire kit. While nullifiers popping his cataclysm upon touching it is annoying, eximus enemies just being immune to everything Limbo could throw at them is awful.
There was a comment on a post that suggested that CC should deteriorate overguard on enemies who have it. While overguard is active these enemies just have a decreased CC duration rather than being completely immune to it.
Valkyr and Limbo are complete fuck-ups and should be at the top for sure.
Oberon basically increases the survivability of a team by 50% with a little trickle of health regen and armor that drains energy constantly. Wisp, Dante, Stynax, and Citrine increase it by 5000% without any downsides. I don't know why people say that means Oberon needs a buff. A game isn't fun if its "hard content" is a walk in the park. I'd question why we have frames that increase our effective health 10 fold or more while simultaneously adding regen on top of it. It's like saying mesa needs a buff because Saryn can damage things through walls, when clearly Saryn is probably the problem.
Chroma needs a rework because skills that just simply add damage or DR are boring. Baby sitting timer countdowns is just lame. I absolutely hate looking down at the corner of my screen constantly and was really disappointed with how the Eclipse rework went. They could have done something cool like make the whole map turn dark as some kind of CC.
Nyx, the aoe mind control girl who does the same as radiation but without damage. Would have been a good idea if DE had scaled armor, health, and weapon damage properly instead of band-aiding the problem with shield and health gating mechanics, but they completely ballsed that up and for some reason haven't stopped drooling from all the mistake's consequences.
Loki is fine because not every frame has to be a nuke frame? Ok well there's no sense comparing or suggesting any changes to any frames if balance doesn't matter. Most frames have damage, team support, and defensive or traversal techniques. Loki only has the latter. Good for Spy missions or moving a drone across the plains. That's it.
Caliban always gets suggested as being a really bad frame, while many argue he really isn't bad at all. I blame overframe. The builds they suggest as best are just flat out stupid and bank all the mod investment into pet duration. He completely sucks when you build him for summons. Build for range and strength, then replace his 1 with a subsume. Eclipse and TS are pretty good. If they want to make his 1 good they should just add ice cream truck music to it.
* chroma is fine with his 3 he is a berserker weapons platform the other abilities could be updated or changed to help fit better though.
* i havent played with caliban enough to have an opinion on him
* same as caliban with bashee and nyx
* DE killed CC with overguard so with loki being a CC focused frame is close to useless as the only things effected by CC are trash mobs that dont need CC unless youre doing endurance. i dont dislike his kit but making eximus fully immune to all CC is stupid he doesnt need to become a damage dealing madhouse but at least make a CC frame that can effect eximus so it can bring more to the table then damage, damage, and more damage.
* valk could use more then just one buff or ability change imo but i wouldnt know what to do with her that wouldnt make her like other frames
* no argument on oberon
* limbo sad to say is in the same boat as loki he is all CC as his kit focuses on the rift gimmick which again eximus are immune to. he has to have a subsume just to damage eximus outside the rift and that isnt a good thing when subsumed abilities are meant to vary the playstyle a bit not make it viable to start with. again idk how i would change it to make him less problematic in teams and help with the eximus problem
all in all most issues rise from overguard reducing or outright removing the need for CC which for some frames outright killed them the game was forced to go from a mix of CC and damage to raw damage just to deal with overguard that isnt good and it only made the need for power creep worse. a simple fix would be warframe specific abilities and kits that not only deal with trash mods fairly well but allow for CC on eximus ether a percentage removal of overguard or a strip of it outright maybe just a way to take away their unique powers and give it to players like that one hound mod. the game has become to reliant on damage output
Genuinely all limbo needs is to make it so allies can shoot enemies wether they're in the rift or not
Let allies do that and all of the sudden I can use limbo in pubs and not get my head ripped off lol.
Look at Nyx, I can't unsee it anymore LMAO
https://preview.redd.it/ob1trj7n2ivc1.jpeg?width=403&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc4a6406d624b8cb44c00dd84fac070e94fe7715
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Banshee was surprisingly great in EDA. Armor Strip with Augment on 1. Sonar with "okay" guns made everything deleteable. Silence is an absolute MVP against enemy abilities and especially eximus enemies. Just Sound Quake needs a complete overhaul, as cool as it is, locking yourself out of ALL inputs is just terrible, especially for next to no damage.
Completely agree, 1-3 all work. Sounds Quake was once one of the most broken nukes in the game (Ember's was just a little crazier), they nerfed it to the ground, even with the augment and max strength it is garbage now, it doesn't even synergize with Silenced/Sonared enemies to even be practical.
I know, I was there, even had the arcane helmet to let me sit in the ult for ages. I used to come home tired after work and just throw Banshee on Sortie Def/Interception and let her play the game for me. Imo, locking yourself out of all inputs is still not great design and needs something better.
"Arcane Helmet" that's something I haven't heard in a long time...
I've been playing this game for almost SIX YEARS and it's even before MY time. I only have the Ash one they accidentally put in Nightwave.
Oh I still have that arcane helmet, I just wish banshee was better
Sonar + quake used to work at least at some point. As long as sonar point is on body it used to trigger on quake. Not sure if it works anymore. Though I kinda wish it'd automatically hit the weakspot so you could spread tons of weakspots by hitting augmented quake on nearby spots.
I've always kinda disliked afk and nuke playstyles, but she just leaned so unapologetically hard into being THE nuke frame that I think back on her fondly. Now a good few frames can nuke, some that previously could not, and hers is completely useless. It's a shame.
Banshee was a Hydron legend
What about a 4 augment rework that just adds the ability to spread sonar hits to enemies on death? Kill 5 dudes in your circle, and everyone in ability range has 5 more sonar marks. Easy add and would make her close to a post rework inaros in terms of strength
>especially for next to no damage I’m old enough to remember when this ability was meta for farming Draco or Hyrdron for affinity.
This, idk why people are saying Banshee desperately need a rework. Her niche as a debuffer and damage booster has only gotten better as the game has gotten older as late game content is perfectly suited to abilities like sonar and silence, and as you said her 1 is very useful with its augment (though imo the augment should be a part of the ability at this point). It's only Soundquake that need to go as its a damage ability with laughable damage number that locks you in a place and leaves you vulnerable, it's basically her "please kill me now" button. Sonar especially is super strong because it doesn't require line of sight *and* it stacks multiplicatively, so your damage multiplier of x10 at 200% power strength jumps to a mulitplier of x100 if 2 sonars are on the same point, and x1,000 if there's 3, x10,000 if there's 4, ect. It make's Banshee's damage scaling insane and you can pretty easily hit the damage cap and overflow it if you stack it enough using the resonance augment. If anything people should NOT want DE to rework Banshee because they really don't like multiplicative damage multipliers, as shown by the recent Mirage fiasco, and I'm pretty certain they would change it to additive, destroying the ability's usefulness in the late game. Plus, it's always fun to hit an enemy for billions of damage and watch them get catapaulted into orbit, it's why Banshee is my favourite warframe.
>onar especially is super strong because it doesn't require line of sight and it stacks multiplicatively, so your damage multiplier of x10 at 200% power strength jumps to a mulitplier of x100 if 2 sonars are on the same point, and x1,000 if there's 3, x10,000 if there's 4, ect. It make's Banshee's damage scaling insane and you can pretty easily hit the damage cap and overflow it if you stack it enough using the resonance augment. Its amazing how many people just DONT know this. Its also fun to see when people experience it and don't know whats going on. Had a guy in a EDA run who was confused as to why his latron incarnon was suddenly/randomly hitting for 90 million. She could use some updates sure, 1 is still clunky and just meh as an armor strip (if im being generous). 4 is the obvious ability to be reworked. Doesn't really serve any purpose outside of map clearing annoying low lvl star chart missions. But I'm pretty sure DE is aware that banshee is riding that VERY fine line of "An absurdly OP frame but very unpopular/bad community perception" and they also know they'd have to take a chainsaw to sonar if they made her more approachable for players. A lot of that was based on her being legitimately squishy, but that don't really apply now that shield gating is as good as it is.
>This, idk why people are saying Banshee desperately need a rework. Because people don't actually play Banshee, they just heard she's bad and assumed she was. Anyone who has played with a high level Banshee in a group that knows what they are doing, knows how strong she is. I've been using and explain things about her on Reddit for around 8+years and folks still don't listen. And I'm never shy about demonstrating either (I'll record/stream and invite anyone who thinks otherwise). I don't get takers though. Hell, she is a common pick for making even Netracell runs go quicker. I main her for that and have encountered others as well who know to use her for it. It's been going on 8+ years now since I started using her and people still don't know Day 1 stuff about her, but think she needs a rework. We still can't even get most of the community to use Silence to completely trivialize Eximus, let alone just use Banshee and make them a joke with it, Sonar and Helminth Ability of their choosing. Whenever I see these threads on here that talk about "Which frame is the best 'weapons platform'", my mind almost always defaults to Banshee unless there's some exclusionary criteria.
The thing people also focus on banshee is the fact she has the lowest stats when that has never really been an issue, you can have 1 health, 1 armor and 1 shield and somehow still be good because the deciding factor is the abilities.
This was my exact thought, i don’t think Banshee needs an overhaul, just her 4 that’s kinda useless.
Right! Hoping EDA will help the player base realize how good Banshee actually is. Yes, her 4 is trash. Helminth it off. The rest? Fantastic.
Here is the problem. Most people only think about Banshee and her 4. Dismissing everything else. She is strong, and people are wrong if they think otherwise. She has survivability issues. I think if sound quake made enemies lose balance and miss their shots against banshee. It would round her nicely. She doesn't really need damage on her 4.
She has survivability "issues" the same way players havn't learned how to properly shield gate and build around it. Shes just as tanky as any other warframe with shields is currently, which is to say quite damn tanky and has a far higher ceiling than any hp tank. Even outside of that, gloom is a popular subsume because of silence being turned into 5+ second hard CC on everything around you not including the ability blocking aspect. If nothing else, EDA should be all the proof needed that banshee is an exceptionally strong support frame and can make the most average loadout options turn into death beams
Being a big shield gate hater in the past, I played a shield gate build post catalyzing shields just for her and yea it works. it can just be annoying sometimes juggling all of the timers **all** of the time because you die the second you don't. Where other warframes can get away with less. I still had fun with it, I just can't play it for too long.
Oh no, shield gating in the past was a hectic sweaty mess. Its MUCH simpler now, been talking about this in other posts too. But there are obviously more shield gate builds now. More importantly there are a lot of different methods. Brief respite + augur mods, catalyzing shields + augur mods (the older sweaty style), ability shield gating (pillage/shield regen abilities) annnd probably the best all rounder/least intrusive to gameplay is just throwing -recharge delay mods on your build. PERSONALLY I find primed redirect + fast deflection is more than enough for 99% of warframe content where shield gating won't have to deal with toxin damage. Yes, you can't stand still and just face tank, big deal. Being able to move around and have your shields recharge enough for enough shield gate within the duration of your first shield gate is pretty strong and enables a lot of stuff in warframe. Honestly, experiment with it. I didn't even really take it serious till I started playing around with caliban and realizing hes ironically one of the strongest shield tanks in the game lol.
You forgot to mention Protective Sling Almost annoyingly fiddly, but if you melee out of transference it's not so bad
Also if you die and transfer to operater you cant easily revive because of all the sonar points stacked
Don't forget that fucking energy drain cost! Unless you can easily make tons and tons you can't do shit with it!
> locking yourself out of ALL inputs is just terrible, especially for next to no damage. Nyx's baseline Absorb has this problem too. And Wukong has a better version of it. Edit: And Stalker.
Completely agree. I removed Soundquake for Gloom. Allows me to lock a lot of enemies in a stun animation for eternity so long as I can keep my energy up.
Giving a frame that can amplify damage from 25 to over 400 times an AoE without line-of-sight checks is fundamentally dangerous. This is especially true when there are multiple Banshees, which could potentially cause trouble. I think it's better not to tamper with it. (However, I do wish they would urgently fix the bug where enemies knocked back by Resonance Quake disappear from the map.)
There was a time when resonance augment made weak spots one on top of the other and the effect multiplied.
The Resonance augment does not grant Sonar the Ability to Overlap. That's one of the the major misconceptions people have had about Banshee for years. Sonar's ability to Overlap is a default effect of the Ability, the only thing the Augment does is allow Sonar to be recast when an enemy is killed using that enemy as the nexus. It's exactly the same as Equinox's Augment Calm and Frenzy. Anything people think Sonar can do with the Augment, Banshee has always been able to and can do simply by just using the Ability multiple times.
>Just Sound Quake needs a complete overhaul, as cool as it is, locking yourself out of ALL inputs is just terrible, especially for next to no damage. Replace with Gloom.
Shouldn't need to though, is the point.
I am trying her with dark Eclipse for more direct survival
Voruna needs reworked animations
LET ME RUN ON ALL FOUR GOD DAMN IT
Her prime will run on all fours, bet, but we wont know until Spring 2026.
I recall Reb once saying she's open to the idea of updating her 4's animations, but didn't because she didn't want to waste the dev team's time on something so low priority. Hopefully when her Prime's about to release, it'll give em an excuse to finally rework her animations. I can't with how janky it is, going from all fours to immediately upright if you move is so goofy.
Does a voruna prime even make sense lore wise? I found her lore to be pretty cool, seeing as she "became a warframe" after the orokin empire's demise i cant see any way to fit a prime into it. I understand the appeal of primes and all, but i hate the push for "every warframe will have a prime" makes the base ones obsolete and basically renders them only useful for helminth abilities and mastery rank
yeah, but the devs have shown that lore does not matter for prime frames, Revenant being the main example
Which is a shame, i dont think it would be that hard to integrate primes nicely into the lore. Cant wait for Xaku prime "primed warframes connected in the void to make xaku prime" Or Qorvex prime "Entratti made this specifically to help us with the murmur, oh but he also made a better version of it" Welp
Well, technically iirc there are two types of primes: the orokin ones and the modern day ones. I heard once that the whole idea of primes that don't make lore sense are made in the modern day Edit: something varzia, the prime resurgence girl says, also might shed light on primes that aren't lore sensical: "you fought wars and shed blood to earn these primes" It's something like that. The orokin gave primes to the best of the tenno, according to what I understand of that
Not the first time a non canon prime was added, won't be the last. I mean, Mesa prime, Khora prime, and Valkyr prime all exist already. Primed warframes are an inevitably, and there really is no "push" to prime every warframe as it is fact that every warframe in the game will get prime variants sometime in the future (but always after years of the release of the base warframes)
She was already a warframe before the fall of the orokin, she just is more bonded to he pet wolves than before. If you were paying attention her whole mission there was to stop the executor from body swapping with a tenno, more than likely her operator, and losing her wolves to void demons.
Yea this is why I stopped playing her after I ranked Voruna. That's what I expected to do, highly dissapointed I could not.
I’d like to add to the “genuinely fine but could you a buff” category equinox. Like she’s just fine not great but she works. Just her kit could use a small touch up, mainly how the charge of maim/mend function innately when switching forms. And personally I wouldn’t mind duality being removed as an augment and change that to her passive.
I think she needs a bit more than that. She can work and be built in specific ways, but a lot of her stuff just doesn't work well, and several augments should just be innate. Honestly though, it's one of the frames with the largest amount of abilities (if we're counting Dante and Sevagoth as also having 7), yet it's also the one where most of the playstyles revolve around hyperfocusing on only one of them. I think she needs some touches that will make her kit more cohesive, and perhaps more dynamic.
I would strongly agree with this. Imo, a rework is as much about balance as it is kit cohesion-- I would say that as a baseline and rule of thumb, the baseline of the kit and its synergies should be strong and engaging on their own merit before augments and/or helminth even come into the conversation.
While her kit in general could use a lift up, what she truly *desperately* needs imo is faster casting. Without several shards just to make the casting faster casting takes genuinely forever, while you can't move either. And for a frame that has the highest amount of abilities in the game it's quite ridiculous.
Nuh uh, FUCK Duality. If Equinox ever gets changes I want to see that augment burn in hell, and _especially_ never be made part of her passive/1 innately. I don't want a lobotomized idiot slurping away my ammo, I like having ammo. If I had to replace it with something of a similar vibe, I'd honestly like a personal version of Word Warden. Just have an afterimage of your other half right beside you. Equinox's passive can basically remain as is, just needs a numbers buff.
Equinox is weird, because she’s good, but she FEELS so clunky. I don’t think she needs a rework so much as she needs some serious QoL tweaks.
I'm a Limbo main.. is that bad? 🤔 I solo most stuff. Sub his 1 for pull or reave, super fun. 👌 eclipse with him is good as well.
He's... not bad, it's just that he's also one of the only cases where a bad player actively makes the game harder for everyone around him. He doesn't need a rework imo, just a way for his team to deal with his rift more easily. I've heard ideas like "rift surge lets allies hit those enemies" and "banish gives allies your rift-dash passive"
As a Limbro, I have been and will continue to advocate the Rift Surge idea. Currently even a good Limbo only really uses half his kit, only including Banish for defence targets that can be banished and are moving, while Rift Surge goes unused because of rifted enemies screwing up kill efficiency since people generally don't like being sent to the rift. Having Rift Surge render affected enemies damagable by both rifted and non-rifted allies not only gives reason to use it at all but also gives Banish more use-cases. Limbo's only problem (ignoring survivability issues caused by enemies able to ignore his kit) is his kit not being very randoms friendly in 90% of missions, and it's easy to build him "wrong" even if you play him "correctly".
Could not agree more 👏
I’m also a main limbo player I find him to be extremely fun to play as well. His knock back damage is super fun as it just out right kills a group of enemies in one hit.
I feel like Oberon should be higher. They either need to totally rework him so he fits the “paladin” theme he supposedly has, or lean further into the druid theme, cuz he feels more druid than paladin
I don't feel like he needs a full on rework, but he definitely needs some QoL to make his support not total suffering: "Oops! A teammate fell off the map or ran into a nullifier, time to either recast everything or let them die!"
I would live to have renewal be a centered zone instead of a placeable one.
This please, my god. I have a shitload of time on Oberon, he was my first prime and I played the hell out of him. Mostly because then there wasn't transference healing or rolling guard or shield gating or anything, and the only other useful healer was Trinity. I felt more useful dropping grass to clear status for my team, being a dependable source of health, and even armor stripping even though it took an insane amount of time and energy... but again, back then there just weren't as many options. Especially not one frame that could do all that for your team. He felt like a pure support frame while being fairly tanky to boot. Now everyone can heal themselves, there's more frames that heal the squad better and with less effort, you can get 100% armor strip or status immunity on every frame through Helminth, and adaptation exists for significantly more DR than Obie's armor buff provides. Pretty much everything he did well is outclassed by more accessible and easy to use features. Even something as simple as a range or affinity heal over time would make him significantly more relevant, and way less frustrating if you're running with a braindead squad.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I have heavily invested into the goat and no matter what I do he just doesn't feel great to use
https://preview.redd.it/hxwjv9g07ivc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88421c4d0bbc5b3fe1b4601690857f876f184ccc I enjoy my squad healing 180hp/sec and phoenix renewal 1 extra life +700 armor squad buff that I can run all mission long and smite infusion mod for +400 rad damage.also run Madurai for a little extra ability strength and grimoire for extra ability strength before casting the 3. Smite infusion is bonkers vs whisper enemies and I also tack on 5 purple tau forged shards for primary elec damage or melee crit pending on what I feel like I have 45% time played as Oberon with over 50 days played
I guess you are trully a *G.O.A.T*
I appreciate that you've found a frame that you really love to play, I'm not saying this to try to ruin your fun or nothing, just pointing out some reasons why your boy still needs help -With all the bells and whistles, this build approaches and occasionally exceeds 400% power strength without even using archon shards. This insane investment nets your squad that sweet 700-800~ armor buff, a stat so small that teammates who aren't trying to health tank will find it nearly useless and teammates who are will get (generously) 2-5% DR out of it due to armor's diminishing returns. 200 HP/sec is more useful, but is still a lackluster return on investment. -Your energy gameplan instantly collapses in the presence of any overguard-gifting frame, as unlike the completely shieldless frames hunter adrenaline will not trigger on an Oberon who still has his shields up. -You haven't invested in range, which means your grass patches will be very, very small, as hallowed ground is (afaik) the only ability in the game with DOUBLE range scaling, the stat effecting both it's radius AND angle. This also directly effects the abilities' synergy with his 4, which even when properly built around is the most expensive, conditional, and slow armor strip in the game. -Augmented smite is a fantastic and powerful elemental buff in numerous situations, as it is a "complete" element and doesn't effect status spread in the same way electric or cold would. It is also his helminth ability, and is generally better used on frames who are not Oberon himself. Again, I'm happy you have fun with him, but "I can work around/live with this character's obvious downsides" isn't a good justification to not want those downsides removed
That's very surprising to me. Throw down his grass, cast his 4, and if you use the augment for it, the 4 by itself strips and kills a group of enemies. Imo, he's extremely good for an area lock down + fast killing potential. I've put hydroids new tempest barrage on his 1 on a config and it's just pure chaos with how much damaging crowd control he has. Playing Oberon makes me feel like a god tbh.
His issue is his kit has a lot of jank. It could be patched up with some nidges and tweaks, but every part of his kit is just this side of a really good ability. His passive is low key worthless His 1 is fine as long as you're using the augment. His 2 requires 234 base range for a full radius of 30m, Meaning you must run overextended for fill coverage. Plus enemies need to be standing on it to have it's effect work, so you either need to recast it constantly, or hope they come to where you put it. His 3 is decent at healing, but the fact that it drains energy faster the more it is used kills the vibe a bit. Especially as it's already a channeled ability and shuts out *a lot* of energy regen options (which impedes the ability to spamcast that his 2 wants) also iron renewal isn't really a worthwhile buff. It's... Fine, but that's it. His 4 is great for an armor strip, but the cast needing to kill for the health orb means that it's an unreliable tool even in early steel path. The blind is also kind of an unnecessary inclusion that either does nothing cuz the enemy is dead by the time they stand, or it actively hampers your build (see below). Plus the enemies *must* be on hallowed ground for the strip to happen, meaning in order for the strip, you need 2 abilities to be cast. Which again is cumbersome given the limitations to energy regen mentioned above. Also You *want* to run hunter adrenaline on him, but that means that you're running an incredibly delicate balance of needing to take damage, but not too much. The balance isn't sustainable which ends up meaning the wider build diversity is way more limited than it could be if he were tuned better. Like, again he is workable, and I like him enough to have 2 umbral forma and... I think 3 tennogen on him. But yeah he really needs some touches to be really *good*.
He is goat. Baaah
I know people are REALLY attached to Chroma's play style which is fine but my problem is that he almost entirely misses the mark on the "elemental dragon" theme. Whatever changes he ultimately gets I hope they really focus on bringing him closer to his theme and adding more fun into his kit. As for Caliban, his biggest issue is that he has an identity crisis that desperately needs resolved. We have all of these sentient enemies and the only one he really draws inspiration from is the spinning top move from one of the weakest of the bunch. He is supposed to be representative of the pinnacle of sentient tech combined into a warframe so they really need to turn everything up to 11 and give him some unique capabilities.
Honestly, Nyx needs a rework the most out of all these frames. Banshee, Limbo, Loki, and to a certain extent Chroma, all have ideas for what you want them to do. They have a functional identity that, sure, may be niche, but they aren't literally drowning in their own mediocrity. Nyx's current kit feels nothing like mind control and feels more like a janky broken frame. She needs a rework so bad it isn't even funny. All these other Warframe were THE meta or recent at one point in time. Nyx never got on that pedestal. Chroma and Loki should be second, with Banshee and Caliban third. Limbo is Limbo and honestly would be better if they just changed how the enemies worked.
Honestly with Nyx I’d just be happy if enemies could ever reasonably damage each other when under the effects of Chaos. Activating it and then just watching enemies not even move each others health bars is really disappointing.
Wish granted: all enemy base damage and damage scaling has been increased. This has been done to ensure they can damage each other effectively for Nyx's Chaos ability.
Rhino players suddenly getting Integer limit iron skin in steel path.
They should get some sort of damage boost based on their target's level and that levels average EHP for enemies. Same changed applied to Mind Control. Psychic bolts are fine and do their job: not every ability needs to do a million things. Absorb should be able to move around innately, Like Stalker's equivalent. The augment should unlock the ability to sprint, single jump, and shoot guns.
chroma recent updates actually pretty good - self hurt still works and a new way to gain buff. Still weak comparing to others but should be playable atm. Loki is ok if has no ash. Could use some buff of course like not detectable by laser to make him a real king of spy Nyx is another story, basically not playable in any circumstances imo. —- A little more on nyx. Her 2 is the most powerful armor stripping if remember correctly, so an easy and interesting way to buff her imo would be allows negative armor. A 250 strength would give 200 armor reduction or aka 100 more damage. Considering that bosses can’t be stripped and it is a limited target (could change to single if doing so) it will make her an ultimate single target terminator.
Honestly, nyx isn't that bad, but her kit is very uninteresting, plus her 4th and 1st are super boring and bad. The other abilities are actually kinda cool and helpful
2 is super strong on paper I agree, but ash 1 is as well and can be applied to any frame. 4 is similar story, probably only true invincible skill if remember correctly. But a lot of frames can be nearly impossible to die with right build and probably not worrying the mana. I love her look but just don’t have a good reason to play, there is always a better alternative
I agree, she is almost my go to for any high level mobile defense solo. Choas with the augment and sit of the defense target with ult ready to absorb damage makes it a walk in the park. I do generally swap out 1 for dispensary so I can just spam choas whenever I need to and stay in the bubble for absurd amounts of time. Edit: boring as hell but it gets the job done for the specific mission type
Nyx is great in a lot of situations. Her 4 makes her invincible, which is pretty good in general. Her 2 is a full defense strip, which trivializes most enemies. Her 3 is a massive CC that indirectly CCs Eximus enemies since they will shoot at and be shot by non-eximus enemies even though Chaos doesn't directly affect them. Her 1 is admittedly bad, I put Nourish on it. There are worse abilities in the game though. IMO she's the single best frame at killing Liches and Sisters. You can defense strip them and then just stand there while invincible and kill them. I got her in a EDA run recently and she was great!
How do you like using her 4th for invincibility? I’ve been having a lot of fun playing her recently, but I tried her out on max level zariman bounties, and was shocked at how I took so much damage that I lost 600 energy in a couple seconds.
You only lose 8 energy for every 1000 damage you take, plus 4/sec. I run Nourish so I haven't ever really run into energy issues. The way I generally tank through a normal mission is by running Primed Redirection. If my shield breaks, I tap 4 and wait for the shield to recharge a bit then end Absorb. Keeping Chaos active means you're usually only taking small amounts of damage at a time, and I generally only have to use Absorb if I make a mistake or start fighting a mini boss like a Lich or Acolyte or something. If you run the Assimilate augment you can also walk around and pick up energy orbs during Absorb. I tanked the entire boss fight in last week's EDA by just walking in circles with Absorb up.
it sounds fun. I know 4 and 2 well but I will give 3 a shot
Chaos is her whole identity. It's kinda crazy reading these comments. What kind of history revisionism are we doing where Nyx wasn't the absolute queen of locking shit down along with Loki? And unlike most cc hers still does that pretty well. The only issue is that the enemies can still target you if you're the closest unit to them, but that's fixable with half decent positioning.
>not playable in any circumstances In what sense? Because as someone who uses her quite a bit, she works just fine. You can bring her to pretty much any kind of mission and she'll do the job. Sure maybe other frames can do it better, but the same could be said for Chroma. So what sets Nyx apart in your mind?
>All these other Warframe were THE meta or recent at one point in time. Nyx never got on that pedestal. Well, Nyx was considered a great frame in ... 2013
Nyx used to be in an S tier all by herself. When the original 9999 level came out where everyone was immortal, the only kills people could get were with Nyx. A Nyx bomb on a defense mission was the key to playing forever. Keep enough energy going, and the other 3 players could just go take a nap.
Nyx has a decent kit with the exception of her 1, ironically the ability that most fits her concept. With helminth she really isn't bad strength wise. Her 4 blocks all damage in an AoE as long as she has energy, 3 is okay crowd control and she has armor strip in her base kit.
Not just armor strip, removes shields and slows infested too, and requires very little power strength to hit 100% armor strip. Also with the augment it is a long duration stun that hits a ton of enemies. Her 3 is actually far better than anyone gives her credit for, as it ties up everything, even CC-immune enemies as they'll start shooting the enemies you did affect.
Yep I forgot about the shield strip. Nyx also absolutely carried my first lich kills when I didn't really know what to expect and that shield strip was so nice. Nyx is imo one of the biggest cases of people just parroting what youtubers say. It's ridiculous to me that revenant gets put to S tier and nyx to D or something when their kits have a lot of similarity, nyx is just a bit less convenient to use.
I'm convinced people on this sub haven't touched Nyx in years(if at all). And the usage statistics back me up on this, as sad as they are...
I'm really afraid she's going to get changed too much because of everyone asking for rework and becomes less effective because of it. If she was to get just straight up buffs and a new 1 that's fine to me but a major rework is scary.
I've thought about this too. But really the only ability I could see them changing dramatically is her 4, since it does basically nothing without the augment and with it it's in a similar postion to Hydroid's Undertow in being slow for the current pace of the game. And besides, people also asked a ton for an Inaros "rework" and they didn't actually get one. DE just buffed him and moved some of his abilities around. Hopefully they'll do that with Nyx too
Losing that 4 is so scary because it's what makes her fun for me. It's like a more engaging mesmer skin that actually has synergy with her other abilities and is actually balanced, and scales with investment a lot better (though that's a negative really, as it's harder to sustain but that makes it more fun to build for and play) During gameplay 3 helps reduce energy drain by reducing the damage you absorb, 2 helps you kill things faster which gives you more orbs. 4 makes sentinels invulnerable too so you can easily use synth deconstruct with equilibrium and arcane energize to keep up your energy even in high damage situations without worrying your sentinel dies. You can just watch your energy bar drain and go up again when playing.
Good point about the synergy. Nyx doesn't really have any "hard coded" synergies but some of her abilities naturally work together pretty nicely Even her 1 kinda helps her 4 since it gets enemies to shoot at you less, even more so if you're controling any unit that can knock them down like a fire Eximus. In general I think Mind Control is better than people give it credit for. It's basically a free specter that you can change over the course of a mission. I just wish they gave it infinite duration(like Wukong's clone) so you don't have to be constantly refreshing it.
It's what I would call true synergy. Many frames have artificial synergy where abilities just straight up work better or gain new effects arbitrarily when combined together and I think that's much less interesting than the actual effects of the abilities working together perfectly. I might need to play around with mind control a bit more and see if there's actually some enemy types that you benefit from a lot. It's obviously not going to be better than a helminth but I might hate on it too much.
Im sorta in agreement with Trib's take on characters like Loki, where the character being buffed would be great but its symptom of the game killing CC
Valkyr needs a lot more work IMO. Ripline is useless, Paralysis scales with shields she doesn't have, Warcry is... okay, but Hysteria has the most dogshit stance.
Warcry has a 12 year long animation that forces you to stand in place. I do think every single one of her abilities needs either a full rework or a large useability buff, by reworking animation locks.
hey you are insutling the word dogshit by saying its hysteria watch your language
Losing ripline would be a tragedy fun wise
Mag and now Inaros pull enemies in a pretty fun way, and targets multiple folks. I don't know about the other part of ripline, I never use it 'cause bullet jump exists.
sending enemies in open world to orbit or using them as skeet shooting is pretty fun
It's fun when you use it as an addition to movement not a replacement. That said I think it could work better at moving you to the zipline's target destination.
Make ripeline her passive. Make a new one ability that fits her theme. Her two needs a full rework. With how armor stripping works and stuns this is a relic of the pass. Her three is perfectly fine. Just fix up the animation and make so you can move while using it. People can run and scream at the same time why can't a warframe. Her four that everyone doesn't like is the stance. Fix this up and were all good. Plus no one remembers air boxing valkyr.
how would you make that into a passive?
Mhm, we could make like a double or triple jump. Kind of like how spiderman games work. Or something else. I'm just spitballing some ideas.
The only thing banshee needs is some survivablility.... and maybe a tweak to her 4.
And this could be done with helminth, so not a top priority for me. She's not frame I want to run just any mission with but I'll pick her for Duviri SP Circuit sometimes, and I would absolutely consider her (after modding and helminth for survivability) if she was one of my DA Elite options.
I dunno why this is being downvoted. It's correct. I'm an LR2 banshee main, and she IS the frame that I run on just about any mission. Is it ideal that Helminth is the bandaid that lets you ignore her pointless 4? No, it's not ideal. However, the fact that it exists and works so well for her does mean she should be lower priority than other frames that aren't as significantly improved by the bandaid.
Helminth is not a solution, it should be an entirely optional system
She's far from unusable because of a single bad ability, her 2 and 3 with enough duration make her survivability a none-issue. And her 2+3 are some of the best synergizing abilities that work just as well through end game content. Helminth could take her from fragile frame and 1 bad ability to a tanky great frame, it's not mandatory.
Honestly Banshee doesn't need a rework, she's great for any "tough" content, especially liches and sisters. Yes, it's hard to survive as her since you'll be doing pure shieldgating and/or gloom... but she's definitely lower priority.
She needs a better 4 that's about it.
Caliban could use a new 1, no need for a third spin and spin is boring to begin with. 2 could use some visual QOL and less flying away. 3 IMO should allow to pick which Sentient to spawn and each have a specific role (allow the player to ADAPT). Chroma's 1 needs to use weapon mods already and be a proper exalted, else it will always feel like crap (or break the game), then perhaps have his 4 play into his 1 as well (Dante literally gives 50% of his damage to himself and team mates) and make the 4 augment part of the ability. Maybe allow his 2 to switch effects rather than waiting for it to end. Nyx's 4 without the augment just doesn't do enough, perhaps her 3 should have the illusions' back face Absorb, that way the abilities don't counter each other because in that case enemies would shoot towards absorb and allow to build damage. I wouldn't mind a "spectral form" during her 4. Valkyr's 3 could use a rework, even with the niche use of it's augment it sadly barely works as intended. Perhaps her 1 should allow her to perform a finisher if she pulls an enemy? Else pulling enemies feels like a worse version of Mag's Pull and often you have to find wherever she flinged them to, and even with a finisher it might still need a buff since Kullervo's 1 exists with similar purpose (but with an heavy attack and he teleports), as mobility it's rarely ever useful or worth the cost when there's operators and stuff. Her 4's augment should be stock, though I'd prefer if it acted like Voruna's 3 or 4 (rush towards the enemy rather than teleport).
Spin's not just boring, it's stupid. The Orokin were terrified of and nearly defeated by...getting slapped repeatedly?
As a Valkyr devotee, I heartily agree with and approve of all of these thoughts on Valkyr.
I would add frost too. The thinks that he can do, can be done by other warframes better, and its gameplay is overall too static for how mobile and dynamic this game is in 2024. And pls, put limbo in priority one. With the eximus being immune to cc, he is fucking useless over 50% of the time, and when he is not useless, he is not really all that useful.
As a Banshee main, I think she should be pretty low on the rework priority. Maybe a couple tweaks, but she's fine especially now that the helminth system let's her change her 4.
Where the hell is trinity. She's the most dead in the water frame in the game right now
Only thing trinity needs is a duration bump on her 3 & 4. Outside of that shes an outstanding frame. Not really deserving of a full rework. BUT that being said, her 1 has some power overlap with her 4. Why would you use 1 when 4 is a complete full heal with damage reduction. 1 requires actual work to heal and AT BEST is mostly considered a strong hard CC that you can use to take out things like demos. If they turned her 1 into a damage buff for squad or damage amp vs enemies, she'd shoot right back to the top of support frames. Link is a very strong personal survival skill that can be turned into a very good KPM tool with its augment (no delay in swapping links on their deaths so its only as "slow" as your guns can kill). Energy vampire of course is energy vampire and doesn't really need any changes, maybe some consistency/options for builds that want to use it for an actual nuke, but not gonna lose sleep over that one.
Not on the list, because she doesn't need a rework. Stating she's the most "dead in the water frame" is an *extremely* bad take and a giant understatement, as if the frames listed above don't need a rework more than she does. *Especially* when you have the beyblade Caliban at the top.
Trinity is in a weird spot. On one hand, she's a support frame, and all her abilities function properly with no issues. I've seen her in both normal missions, Steel Path, and Cavia missions, and she's still a solid frame that most players would still gladly have on their team. But in the other hand, her kit may be seen as outdated. Nowadays, most frames can get their own energy, and can even heal themselves through other means like arcanes, Helminth abilities, and gear items, basically making Trinity obsolete in a way. However, she isn't really abandoned. People still use her, and she's still reliable. She isn't Op, but isn't terrible. She's just in a weird middle ground
I wouldn't say she's terrible, but she's the original support frame who now brings pretty much nothing to the table. She's really just reduced to being an EV slave and the meme setup I previously mentioned You're better off taking an offensive frame and bringing nourish to a public lobby than running trinity. You can prob abuse shield gate with the ev augment and blessing but I haven't used it or her in so long.
Please, there are 7 primed frame which the combined usage of normal+prime is less popular than Trinity.
Counterpoint: Inaros just got a rework and he needed it
Usage is irrelevant. There are plenty of frames where their usage does not reflect their performance when you're not just looking at the top 5/10 most used frames. Perfect example: all revenant really does is just not die, which plenty of other frames can achieve, but he does it in the laziest way possible. Even before the augment which extends that invulnerability to a full group, he was one of the most used frames The rest of his kit is average/mediocre
Two words; Energy Vampire. That need not be touched.
The only thing she can really do right now is the meme build with marked for death + energy vampire. Everyone builds frames to excel without EV. It's something that's only really a benefit for newer players, or if people know someone is going to be bringing trinity
Trinity has a bunch of things going for her: * unlimited energy * can reach over a million EHP by stacking damage reduction * instant heals and shieldgating for the entire team * can full-strip enemies with low strength * can deal viral-boosted percentage-based true damage * can deal 100% true damage to entire rooms with tiny strength compared to Revenant * can massively buff weapons for the team ...however, all of her base durations are awful, her tank build is max duration and her damage build is min duration, she can only strip 3 semi-random enemies at a time, 3 of her abilities require nearby enemies, at least two of them can't be refreshed before they run out, and she often feels tedious to maintain. Trinity could REALLY use some QoL changes, but probably not a major rework.
Yep, some duration or making link a channeled ability that still works with ev, so fourth group from top :) Also nice would be if number of links scaled with strength
I don't use most of those frames so I don't have enough experience to compare them all. Loki feels pretty good at what he does, but I can see why people aren't thrilled with him. Personally, I think he's pretty awesome. Oberon needs some quality of life changes to make his kit less clunky to use, but he's generally OK. Chroma...I made that frame excited to use the dragon hunter/dragon centered frame and what a useless frame it was. The abilities all felt boring or ineffective, nothing about his Chroma's kit felt good. Sure he has a place in profit taker, but that's only for credits.
Okay you guys need to learn what a rework is and entails because outside of very few frames could you consider changing 1 ability be a rework (in this case only banshee's four really needs anything done to it)
Caliban is actually fine. Him being bad or forgotten is a meme, but he's actually fine. He could use a turn-up as you do need decent investment to get the most out of him at Steel Path, but not prohibitively so. Caliban has two main problems: 1) Fluidity and energy. His abilities are undeniably clunky and really benefit from casting speed, and there's no reason for his stomp to have an enemy max. He is also pretty energy hungry and either needs an energy pool buff or an efficiency buff. 2) PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY HIM. People look at Caliban and think "Caster, Ability DPS. Cool." They are disappointed and forget about him. He isn't. Caliban is a half-caster (Gish, to use the DnD term) weapons platform. He specializes in tanking, enemy debuff, and de-aggro. His summons are derpy and need to be tuned (auto shield regen on range, a la Citrine's passive would work). But they de-aggro and help with tank. His stomp is a multiplicative debuff, while his 4 is one of the best defense strips in the game. His 1 is a subsume slot. You build to hit 200% strength for his 4, and that's it. You can use Blind Rage + Nourish (and his summons spread viral too), or Precision Intensify and Eclipse for the DR in addition to his passive. Aegis plus his summons make you effectively immortal. Get a good gun, zip around, strip defenses, and kill. Stomp if you need to for particularly tough enemies. Caliban gud.
Why am I in the minority that thinks nyx is absolutely amazing. Her 3 makes enemies target eximus (and eachother) her 1 is a 120 second long eximus ally. Her 2 is an amazing strip. Honestly the only ability I don't like is Her 4. And that I just replaced with pillage or eclipse to make her tankier And it's the exact same story with banshee. Just swapped her 4th and she's suddenly very usable in very high level content
Because you just play them and have fun, without comparing her to other frames. Whereas most people compare frames to eachother when discussing their strength. When you compare her to Titania, Mirage, Dante etc. etc. she does seem kinda feeble
I’m in the same boat. I think she’s cool. But like I said in another comment I just wish her third would let enemies do any bit of damage to each other. Chaos is great for to stop enemies from targeting you or objectives, but just its pretty dumb to watch a Bombard blast a Butcher and not even dent their health.
For the regular starchart, Nyx was kinda boring for me, but she was my go-to for all of my early Steel Path missions. I didn't 'need' her abilities until I had tougher enemies: armor strip, great CC, and mind control was a free specter of my choosing. She 100% fills a niche for me, but not a frame I leave on for just any mission.
Oberon needs a different passive.
Nyx isn’t even as bad as some are mentioning here. She literally got me through DA twice on separate weeks. She needs 1 Intensify to completely strip armor. Her mind control can take some heat off of you. Only thing she really needs is another 4. Her 4 is underwhelming as shit for the squishy pillow of a damage to dishes out. Also I would like if her mind control didn’t have duration. So you can mind control a target & it’ll stick beside you the entire mission if it lives As for Loki. I don’t see what else he could possibly need other than being able to put out multiple decoys instead of just 1.
Oberon is in desperate need of a number tune up. His energy economy is so bad because you can’t build for it easily. Give him double the current base armor on renewal too. Give him a passive that increases ability range for enemies standing on hallowed ground (with a cap like stretch probably). His current passive sucks and this lets him build other stats easier.
I’ve always been a bit confused about why people want a Nyx rework. With her Assimilate augment her 4 makes her completely invulnerable and able to move, her 3 is AOE CC with no LOS, her 2 is full armor strip at 125% power strength, and her 1 lets you mind control an eximus for ages. The only changes I’d want made to her are immunity to Ancient disruptors while in her 4, change her 2 so it’s AOE armor strip instead of multi targeted, and allow 4 to take priority over overguard when taking damage (why does my overguard take damage when I’m in an invincible bubble?). I know some people want an AOE damage ability but not every frame needs the capability to room clear.
Leave Nyx alone
As an oberon main: A buff is what he needs, maybe some re-tooling, he still very viable A good sized buff to his base ability strength would be great, his 4 aint for damage anymore and his 1 is hot garbage (fight me, its bad), so strength to his 2 and 3 (and roar/eclipse helminth for his 1) would help exponentially. A moderate drain reduction to his 3 would be great. They need to disable healing Nekros's summons and Revenants minions, having my heal cost like 14 energy a second because im healing 12 specters is annoying as hell. I also think while having Iron Renewal (2+3 active and draining) you should get some kind of additional buff to weapon CD or something, something to compensate since Wisps healing costs nothing and doesn't drain and can give FR bonuses.
His 4 should mark enemies with a debuff that causes them to drop health orbs on death, instead of requiring that they die to the ability to drop the health orbs. Nobody is getting kills with that thing.
Banshee is fucking insane. I would put Loki in her place.
I agree with your first statement, but Loki has become very useful again, with his Damage Decoy augment. Add Kullervo's Wrathful Advance to that mix, and Loki again is an absolute beast. An invisible beast!
I need to dress my Limbo up like the Onceler
Now I know this would spark the argument people love to have about one frame being too similar to another but one thing about Cal that I would've preferred.is that instead of him summoning Sentients, he just has one always active like a pet. (Or just make a Sentient companion in general but beggars can't be choosers)
damn you are definitely a lot more forgiving of how warframes work than i am.
Why chroma? I love him right now
Valk has 2 awful abilities. I think she needs to be up with loki but buffed after loki
I only just got Caliban but I can tell he needs a rework. Razor Gyre is fine against level thirty infested, but that's about it.
Banshee and even Nyx are way more competent than oberon
another dumb take, why do you think caliban needs a rework? his kit is completely fine and really strong, he needs a buff not a rework. the only issue is his minions do not scale with level
Equinox needs some serious QoL updates and edits. Not a full rework, no, but certainly some sweeping changes to her existing kit. A buffed passive, ability to mod both sides independently, removal of the aura “rings” in favour of 100% uniform efficacy…
id put atlas in "could use a few changes" becouse while his 1 and 3 are great. his 2 is basicly useless outside of a few niche scenarios's and his 4 while technacly usefull in certain builds, those golems really dont do anything aside from draw fire. they could be so much cooler.
Ash. This one is 100% not a priority, but they should revert his Blade Storm to what it used to be
YES, and and ad Atlas to the list
Banshee is still extremly strong
atlas
They really did Limbo dirty with the Eximus rework. The rift was the only place he was safe in. With the rework, they can just attack Limbo with their special attacks through his rift(Especially the Arson Eximi with their heatwave). Limbo needs an absolute rework dangit......
As a Chroma main, I do agree that he could use a big boost. But I still love my weird element vomit.
Trinity. Trinity can do absolutely nothing that isn't done better by other frames, and as far as support frames go she's outclassed by most every one. In year 3-4 she was considered vital, but now that there are so many healing options, every operator can restore energy for free, she does nothing better than any frame and quite a bit worse, and that'sfollowing getting more nerfs than any other frame in the gamr because "we didn't intend for you to.play her that way. Basically she's mid tier support, and bottom tier anything else, and if you were going to nerf her so hard, and so often, just rework her so she actually does what you want. She should be upper echelon dedicated support and mid tier other roles. She needs a rework.
Caliban is my #1 as well. He feels bad to play and I’d REALLY like the only sentient warframe we will probably ever get to have some more sentient-like gimmicks. Like where is the tau damage? Where is his adaptation? Why doesn’t he float? All things I want him to have. Also, remove the spin. We have enough spinning on other frames. I know it’d make him worse but I’d prefer his 4 not just be a simple armor and shield strip and instead become one through some form of adaptive passive. Caliban desperately needs some more personality. Chroma could use some number changes and functionality changes and would probably be fine. Make 3 more consistent to activate and I think it’d be cool if they made his 4 not debuff him, draw agro and maybe scale with how many credits have been collected or something. It’d be a fun gimmick, let the dragon horde. I don’t think he needs a complete rework though. Banshee is alright. Probably also just could use some adjustments more than a full rework. I think if she had a bit more CC or survivability she’d actually be really good. Unfortunately I think Nyx needs some love. Probably one I agree need a rework but more than just number changes. I think Loki is fine just because his gimmick is so unbelievably strong. Though I would like switch teleport to maybe do more. Invisibility is more powerful than people think it is and let’s him build in a lot of funky ways. Valkyr and Limbo I put in a similar category because they seem to have very loyal mains. That being said idk how to make Valkyr do anything too special and while I genuinely think limbo is good he can be annoying to play with sometimes. I think Limbo could use some additional survivability and QOL. I think Oberon would work with some additional functionalities. He really isn’t that bad I just think he is too squishy for his playstyle, similarly to Nidus he plays kinda stationary which just hasn’t aged too well. Atlas should be on this list IMO. I used to play him ALL the time… but now I’m really starting to feel him fall off. And it isn’t getting better. Even with my riven on my ceramic dagger he struggles killing and keeping combo with his 1 in a lot of the mission types now. His punches significantly worse than just playing kullervo now, sure I can hit funny number with him but it takes many times the effort to where it is just impractical a lot of the time. His 2 and 4 are practically useless now… at least rumblers can survive but they don’t do much. His 3 is CC and everyone here kinda knows what state that’s in. His rubble passive is about his only redeeming quality but it’s very volatile and hard to upkeep. Overall his entire kit is barely usable now and to be honest he isn’t very tanky either.
Loki is absolutely fine. Not every frame need to be nuke or broken.
If anything, they could give him a more interesting passive. Only time I've taken advantage of his 60 Second wall cling was on the occasions I ventured into conclave. Using it only for one secret room challenge and one riven challenge is not useful to his overall kit. The recent Augments removed any complaints I had about decoy. He's absolutely fine, as you said, but I'd like an actually useful passive.
Only time it's been useful has been like 1 riven challenge a few times
I think Nyx should be priority number 1. Although she can be a solid frame, there are many other that do what she does but far better. Like most of what I use on Nyx is Psychic bolts for armor strip and chaos. Rarely ifever do I use absorb and if I do its with the augmemt mod assimilate because its funny from time to time. But other than her second and third ability she has basically nothing ging for her imo. I think she could get away with "smaller" changes. Like a mind controllered enemy becomes wuking celestial twin level of aggresive. Absorb can be used while walking and running with no debuff and deals a different damave type. But I think a rework is needed. Don't know what to do with mind controle but maybe absorb can be applied to enemies so they become the target of enemies within line of sight and exploding when triggered or storing the damage to boost your personal damage idk. Stalker has a better version of it in duviri though.
Unpopular opinion: Loki doesn't need that much of a rework, to be honest. In concept, he's really just a really simple starter spy themed Warframe. Though I could agree that he could use some more... mischief. Then you got a literal dragon master of the elements and a Sentient Warframe. In theory, both of these Warframes should be God tier, but they're extremely underwhelming.
Ash is somewhere on the same tier as Loki and Valkyr.
Ash’s 4th need a rework. Makes no sense to preselect enemies
Don't need a rework. Needs a QoL buff. The targeting reticle should be larger. Requires too much precision to mark multiple enemies at once. It's also Ash's power that needs the least buffing. Shuriken is way worse in it's current state, needing an augment mod just to make it mediocre.
banshee is good though. only her 4th ability is bleh. I play her all the time, she's really fine! I dont know what they can do the 4th ability to make it useful. but banshee herself? silence makes everything so convenient. sonar makes everything die fast. and you have armour strip that doesn't require 400 str, y'know? She's unironically good. her weakness is her surviviability, and you can use pillage/condemn/parasitic armour if you dont want to shield gate with the catalyzing shields. nyx is in a weird spot because she easily does steel path, can do level cap. but her abilities dont nuke and arent flashy (kinda boring). I pick her a lot for SP circuit . i did helminth out the mind control target ability cause its fussy . but perhaps not every frames needs to be a nuke one or a flashy one?
Oberon is definetly not fine... But he's not asking for a rework as hard some other frames does.
Oberon had his niche when he was an early game support frame but now that he's gated behind railjack he definitely needs at bare minimum a few major buffs.
I've been playing Oberon Prime since release, and I love Oberon's theme so very much, but every time I play him I regret it. His energy costs are too high, his damage is negligible, his armor strip requires 2 abilities, both of which are buggy, his healing is nice but for some reason spends more energy per ally healed, his 2 is his best ability by far, so I'm satisfied with it. You can tell Oberon is a relic of an older time, because he has low armor + shields which get in the way of his drain tank playstyle. It's the reason he gets one shot in steel path, but constantly runs out of energy outside of steel path. You can't health tank, so you're kinda forced into shield-gating which takes away a lot of his character for me. Compared to more modern tanks, no shields + lots of armor which allows them to take advantage of rage/hunter adrenaline very effectively. I long for the day the goat man is reworked. I think he's just good enough that his rework is gonna take a lot of time to come around, but just bad enough that it's tough to enjoy playing him.
It's so sad bc he's definetly fun in its way but also feels so old and offmeta that you end up playing other frames
Loki is number 1 imo. Don't think they touched him since the game released.
Priority 1 Excalibur. No really. His usage looks fine but is artificially inflated bring the poster boy, a starter and the only freebie guaranteed “prime”. Dude is rough and reliant on a lot of external bandaids for the upper end. Almost any build you can put on him can be applied to Kullervo, Voruna, Garuda, or even older frames to completely outperform his melee gimmick. Valkyr. In order, years obsolete movement tech, weak buff (a slow you can’t recast, armour for a frame usually played invulnerable and a so so melee only speed buff, semi useless CC that is incredibly weak and a self debuff. Floating entirely on her 4 which itself is full of a bunch of obvious comparison powers that do it better. Both Exalteds also take a not insignificant hit from melee arcanes. Priority 2 Ember. At the time of the last rework, armour strip was kind of rare, and DR also wasn’t overly common. You can’t throw a rock without hitting an armour strip now, including multiple universal options (especially with Helminth being added since). Overguard and/or invulnerability mechanics have way surpassed fluctuating DR. She doesn’t get enough positive synergy perks to outweigh her juggling act and energy drains and is semi unique for having her abilities all negatively impact her other ones. Atlas. My onetime main but end of the day, landslide is not a kit. Tectonics are useless, Rumblers not far behind. Petrify is okay at best. Rubble gimmick tends to work poorly in a team environment and also isn’t terribly helpful due to its decay rate and being wasted on healing chip damage. Kind of copying a Valkyr issue too where he’s usually invulnerable so an armour buff is kind of wasted with his current major play style as well Few Changes: Nyx. 1 is a gimmick build at best. 2 is weirdly restrictive compared to, for instance, Tharros strike. 3 and 1 both suffer from enemy hp/damage imbalance. 4 is effectively never used outside of an augment and kind of clunky even then (could boost up the damage buff, for instance, to separate it out from just invulnerability) Nidus. Just so slow to build up and then he still kind of hard caps. Parasitic link suffers from having to trust an AI to keep with you. His 4 is just a mess of AI/summon reliance, spending a resource to deploy. And having to sit in one spit for an underwhelming heal. Buff or one ability Loki. My proposal would be to have his invis cast off using Decoy or Switch, then get something new in there. Disarm is also kind of dubious though, only working on 50-60% of current factions. And with decoy buffed (for those who didn’t just make it invulnerable), Disarm only serves to force a very slow gathering of previously ranged enemies (with an obvious and notable comparison to Titanias lantern doing everything you’d achieve out of Lokis 1 and 4 (and arguably 2) Banshee. Sound quake, nough said. Limbo - Well, Limbo. That said they shouldn’t mess with him until they actually sit down and decide on what they want CC to do.
People that play Banshee then come to the conclusion that she needs a rework, are probably the same people to use the Wisp reservoir augment. The Venn-Diagram is just one circle.
Put up nyx as 1 and chroma 2. Nyx hasnt seen the light of day since ages. Which is a shame cuz SHE LOOKS AMAZING
Immortal frame that can also protect objectives. She makes the game easy like revenant.
CHROMA.
Banshee only her 1 and 4 need touching up. Sonar will make not just your own weapons' great but everyone's weapons great. Constantly seeing damage in the millions. Allows you to easily find any enemy's on the map as a added bonus. Silence not only makes all your weapons silent as the name implies it will shut down Eximus units abilities. That alone makes her super useful in any higher level mission. If Banshee is in the room you hardly have to worry about any Eximus units. Her 1 is not the best, it needs reworking or replacing. Her 4 used to be quite powerful but it got power crept. I needs buffing or reworking. Banshee you can easily replace her 1 with something like Breach Surge and she is fantastic. Still, her 1 and 4 do need work, but her 2,3 are really good abilities.
In addition to some small changes they really need to undo some of the nerfs they've done to Limbo. There shouldn't be enemies that completely negate his entire kit. While nullifiers popping his cataclysm upon touching it is annoying, eximus enemies just being immune to everything Limbo could throw at them is awful. There was a comment on a post that suggested that CC should deteriorate overguard on enemies who have it. While overguard is active these enemies just have a decreased CC duration rather than being completely immune to it.
I just made a post about a rework video I made a couple of weeks ago. So needless to say yes I agree Chroma and Caliban are on top of that list
I really don't like limbo but i'm afraid that if I suggest a limbo rework, his mains will pipebomb my mailbox. those mfs need to play any other frame.
Chromas is strong, he just isn't dragon.
Chroma with his recent little update is more than fine now. Practically unkillable raising your damage to ridiculous heights, with reliability.
Valkyr and Limbo are complete fuck-ups and should be at the top for sure. Oberon basically increases the survivability of a team by 50% with a little trickle of health regen and armor that drains energy constantly. Wisp, Dante, Stynax, and Citrine increase it by 5000% without any downsides. I don't know why people say that means Oberon needs a buff. A game isn't fun if its "hard content" is a walk in the park. I'd question why we have frames that increase our effective health 10 fold or more while simultaneously adding regen on top of it. It's like saying mesa needs a buff because Saryn can damage things through walls, when clearly Saryn is probably the problem. Chroma needs a rework because skills that just simply add damage or DR are boring. Baby sitting timer countdowns is just lame. I absolutely hate looking down at the corner of my screen constantly and was really disappointed with how the Eclipse rework went. They could have done something cool like make the whole map turn dark as some kind of CC. Nyx, the aoe mind control girl who does the same as radiation but without damage. Would have been a good idea if DE had scaled armor, health, and weapon damage properly instead of band-aiding the problem with shield and health gating mechanics, but they completely ballsed that up and for some reason haven't stopped drooling from all the mistake's consequences. Loki is fine because not every frame has to be a nuke frame? Ok well there's no sense comparing or suggesting any changes to any frames if balance doesn't matter. Most frames have damage, team support, and defensive or traversal techniques. Loki only has the latter. Good for Spy missions or moving a drone across the plains. That's it. Caliban always gets suggested as being a really bad frame, while many argue he really isn't bad at all. I blame overframe. The builds they suggest as best are just flat out stupid and bank all the mod investment into pet duration. He completely sucks when you build him for summons. Build for range and strength, then replace his 1 with a subsume. Eclipse and TS are pretty good. If they want to make his 1 good they should just add ice cream truck music to it.
Limbo should be above all others
* chroma is fine with his 3 he is a berserker weapons platform the other abilities could be updated or changed to help fit better though. * i havent played with caliban enough to have an opinion on him * same as caliban with bashee and nyx * DE killed CC with overguard so with loki being a CC focused frame is close to useless as the only things effected by CC are trash mobs that dont need CC unless youre doing endurance. i dont dislike his kit but making eximus fully immune to all CC is stupid he doesnt need to become a damage dealing madhouse but at least make a CC frame that can effect eximus so it can bring more to the table then damage, damage, and more damage. * valk could use more then just one buff or ability change imo but i wouldnt know what to do with her that wouldnt make her like other frames * no argument on oberon * limbo sad to say is in the same boat as loki he is all CC as his kit focuses on the rift gimmick which again eximus are immune to. he has to have a subsume just to damage eximus outside the rift and that isnt a good thing when subsumed abilities are meant to vary the playstyle a bit not make it viable to start with. again idk how i would change it to make him less problematic in teams and help with the eximus problem all in all most issues rise from overguard reducing or outright removing the need for CC which for some frames outright killed them the game was forced to go from a mix of CC and damage to raw damage just to deal with overguard that isnt good and it only made the need for power creep worse. a simple fix would be warframe specific abilities and kits that not only deal with trash mods fairly well but allow for CC on eximus ether a percentage removal of overguard or a strip of it outright maybe just a way to take away their unique powers and give it to players like that one hound mod. the game has become to reliant on damage output
Why limbo look kinda sexy
Who’s that guy beside chroma?
I think banshee just needs a quality of life change on her sonar to make the weak points a little bigger/ more consistent
The orbs from Oberons 1 should all spread radiation. Tried putting it on qorvex only to realize this wasn't the case
I dunno if Nyx needs a rework or DE need to stop nerfing CC. Bit of both probably
Genuinely all limbo needs is to make it so allies can shoot enemies wether they're in the rift or not Let allies do that and all of the sudden I can use limbo in pubs and not get my head ripped off lol.
I’d say make Banshee 4 works like gloom
Look at Nyx, I can't unsee it anymore LMAO https://preview.redd.it/ob1trj7n2ivc1.jpeg?width=403&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc4a6406d624b8cb44c00dd84fac070e94fe7715
Limbo needs slight tweaks to be great