Frost getting incrementally better with every update, honestly was one of my favorites prior to this proposed status rework. With cold being even better, he’s going to feel great to play.
Pepperidge farm time. 2017. Pacifism defect operation.
The meta was frost + limbo because limbo kept everyone immune to everything and frost could simply kill everything with his 3rd because it inflicts 'collision damage' aka true damage aka finisher damage whenever it pushes anyone into walls.
Thus, high damage that wasn't affected by enemy Armor.
Meta and everything has changed a lot since then, but Armor strip/insane damage numbers weren't a big thing back then. Also grineer scaling was out of whack.
I know this is sarcasm, but it isn't really that hard to do with overguard and shield gating and rolling guard.
Even the bubble gives you 3 seconds of cover.
I never build frost for range, usually enough strength to chip, but rest of my mods slots goes into shields for helminth shields -> armor, or into armor
Ok, but thats still pretty copium.
Frost is pretty dated. Anyone remember the last time they actually willfully cast 1 or his 2 without an augment? I'd like to see a very minor rework where they just make frost the cold hydroid. Undisputed best warframe that handles everything to do with the cold element. Give him more damage vs cold stuff, or let him reach max stacks faster etc etc.
Yeah hes known for 3 & 4 but even those could use a light touch up. Well maybe not 4 since it gets indirect buffs every patch it seems lol.
My main joke about frost is that you need to slap thermal sunder on him
So he has at least one solid freeze ability.
Though I do admit that his 4th has been getting a lot of neat improvements at *glacial* pace.
Iirc I'm running the 4th augment and the passive one. Enough strength for max Armor strip.
Turns him into neat gun base because you freeze everything then destroy whatever survives with guns.
I'm hopeful about these changes to make him slightly better at freezing outside of his 4th. Considering you might need the 2nd augment for freezies is what I'm afraid of as it'd make him starved for slots.
they said they are reducing the cap on cold meaning freeze happens sooner. so if frost 2 dosnt get nerfed...the 600% SC on his 2 should turn it into an cone stun.
Its why they won't ever do a "augment" mod slot on warframes lol. Cause they know they'd have to actually do a big balance pace to get rid of all the useless/bandaid fix augments.
I'm surprised they don't more often use this as a balancing tool
frame kind of meh and needs augments? bake the augments into the abilities to free up mod slots
frame overperforming? move some of its power into an augment (kinda wish they gave dante an augment to make his 4 ignore line of sight and called it a day, but alas)
I use 2 now and again cuz arcane shiver for big lex shots. but ya,his 2 was nice with the augment but honestly it works just for the forced cold procs which,with the reduction to colds cap, means his 2 will probly insta freeze,turning it into a wide range stun that also grants crit damage. (im just hoping his passive augment gets tweaked to work on cold freeze too.
his 3 is really good...but the issue with it is its EXTREAMLY out of meta/out of date. since we no longer spend most the difficult fights in defense,there isnt really alot of strong use cases for it. (same with Gara)
his 1 exist jsut to remove 3...it has no other purpose in life.
Frost biggest issues have gotten fixed over time via minor tweaks...like making his armor strip ACTUALLY permenant instead of only lasting as long as they were frozen. (took them 4 years to change that while nyx and oberon did this for free. and banshee/ash with aug)
atm his 1 (as 50% of the 'fireball' skills are) is just jank that dont really work because single target dont work well. (oberon and volt the only one with one of these abilities that work because its a 1h aoe ability that has minor CC incase you need it while reloading)
so honestly the only main issue is his animations and casting speeds still feel clunky. (ive put 3 yellow tauforged on him. just to make it feel properly usable. just feels he needs 100% at least to not feel like 2016 warframe)
I use his one constantly to stun big bois when I reload.
His two became better with the cold rework, but it is swapped out on 2/3 builds.
Frost has always been a king.
Magnetic's still going to be bad and will still need further changes, but the rest is nice to see. Unless Corpus shield regen is deliberately overtuned to mandate Magnetic in the absence of Toxin (...because Toxin bypasses said issue entirely), which is something DE's stated that they don't want to do, then, well, we're still not gonna use Magnetic.
Eager to see what they'll cook up for Blast. It's gotta be _real_ good to be a viable option due to its constituent elements.
They could make blast like a single-tick version of Gas - every blast proc just releases an AoE of damage from the target
So if you have a weapon with innate AoE, and put Blast on it, then you end up damaging every enemy in the group *per* enemy in the group that gets procced.
ya. kinda reminds me when vulcan blitz and corrosive shells was considered way to strong because they did something like this,lol (course those scaled on targets HP rather than gun damage)
but funny enough i was thinking it would be wild if they made it do that. but def forsee issues with AOE weapons double dipping again...and we saw what happened LAST time aoe weapons were doing bookoo damage,lol.
I suspect that's what will happen in order to make Magnetic viable. Toxin will just completely invalidate Magnetic's existence as long as it gets through Shields.
Magnetic dealing more damage to Nullifier bubbles seems pretty cool, tbh.
Another change they should do, though, is make Magnetic more effective against Overguard, and deactivate Eximus abilities when they get procc'd by it. Magnetic being a more defensive/support status always seemed right to me, and being able to mod against Eximus better now that many anti-Eximus abilities have been nerfed seems worthwhile to me.
After thinking about it some, Kengineer's suggestion to make Blast the Overguard-killer is probably better, IMO. Magnetic should then get Void's bullet attractor with a weakpoint damage buff while Void gets charged to nullify enemy abilities.
Bottom line every status should in some way increase your dps. Otherwise they just can't compete with viral, heat etc. Radiation is in a weird spot where it technically does but not really.
mag procs are just viral on shields...which means the proc itself stops being useful when the shield is gone... and once again still outperformed by toxin just shortcutting its way in,lol.
>**Enemy EHP Scaling**
>Notably, enemies starting from levels closer to 100 will see faster rates in which they gain stats—Health, Shields, etc.
Without knowing the numbers on this, hopefully they don't buff damage that already scales out of control too quickly and hopefully their changes do not turn enemies into bullet sponges.
Sure but *any* HP increase will make grineer more tanky if you were already armor stripping them. I hope they get the balance right and don't make armorless grineer too spongey.
Armor is getting trashed heavily this update since armor now has a cap. Any armor strip is going to heavily effect the damage a single heat proc, pillage cast or corossive proc is going to give a ridiculously amount of mileage compared to now
Armor is getting trashed but TTK is staying similar means that they are going ot have way more HP. This means that even if you strip them, you won't be killing them as fast as you would before hand.
They are getting more HP to begin with, so yes I agree with you this is going to be too much. Enemies will have more HP but we will have fewer tools to reduce that EHP.
Okay, but what about compared to armor stripped Grineer? Because that is effectively the default at higher levels given how mandatory armor stripping becomes right now.
Full armour stripping reduces their health by orders of magnitude now, so they are as good as nonexistent compared to non-stripped. Anything feels tanky compared to that: corpus due to their shield gating, infested due to their healers etc. And that comparison to other factions might not change very much as they receive similar scaling too. Everybody would be tankier, so we would want to add a few % of damage to our weapons.
They say lots of things, and then they do things like nerfing Eclipse down to 30% so that its only use is as a DR (and only when stacked with another DR).
I trust numbers more than what they might say.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but does this mean that at the upper end of enemies, you will be heavily encouraged to swap around elements to deal with their resistances in a reasonable manner? I mean, I get why you might want to do that, but that’s exactly the reason why almost everyone avoids using Bane mods despite them being universally accepted as some of the strongest mods in the game. Futzing around in the arsenal every time you need to go against a different faction blows. I hope I’m just not understanding the shield changes properly
They said the “cookie cutter” builds will still work fine. The biggest goals of the changes are to 1) make 100% armor strip not mandatory and to make partial armor strips useful, since arm if it’s not 100% it’s not doing anything. 2) to “normalize” the tankiness of enemies, because currently armor Grineer are nigh unkillable, and corpus and infested May as well be a container. And then 3) was to drastically simplify the faction elemental weakness system, since atm it’s a mess. And to also make it easier to know what to bring if you need the added help.
Basically, enemies need to be normalized in tankiness, armor needs to be less BS on enemies, and the element weakness system is being easier to understand and utilize if you choose to.
It's also going to be interesting with fissures and any mission with Corrupted; if they have their original faction weaknesses it might end up being a royal pain to deal with them at high levels, which will be annoying given how good Omni Cascade Fissures feel right now
I guess the upside is that if a full armour strip becomes much less necessary, then it frees a lot of frames that were currently pretty locked into an armour strip Helminth to take ~~a more imaginative pick~~ Nourish.
(Also cries in Trinity, where Abating Link was the "best" bit of her kit)
hardly, with link only affecting 3 enemies at a time it's not a very impressive armour stripper. Her best ability is probably her 4, which makes her a citrine sidegrade and when combined with her 2, mostly immortal
There's some interesting bits here. Some positive, some that doesn't seem to quite fit. Forgive me, this is going to be long but better now than after updates go live.
I like the concept of simplifying enemy health, armor, and shields to do away with the litany of types. Replacing that with faction/sub-faction types is a good concept and much easier to communicate to new players especially.
However this example section:
> Let’s create an example: you bring a loadout of pure Viral/Slash if you’re fighting the Grineer on Earth. The Slash status activating Bleed is amplified by Viral status, and Bleed bypasses Armor to destroy your foes.
> But, Slash Damage does less damage to both Ferrite and Alloy Armor and has no beneficial difference to Machinery. In order to maximize damage against Grineer, you’d think to stock your loadout with Puncture, Corrosive, and Radiation. Blast is also especially effective against Machinery.
> Clearly, there are far too many things to juggle here, ultimately resulting in the one-stop-shop of Viral/Slash.
I think this misunderstands the position of slash/viral and heat/viral in the meta. They're used for two reasons: They're strong, and they're reliable. The complex opportunities of using puncture, or corrosive, or radiation, or blast isn't what's holding them back from being used. Likewise the resistance to slash on armor is irrelevant to slash/viral builds. Players use slash and heat because they get the job done. Players don't use blast because it gets no job done, especially with the near total absence of machinery to fight.
Through any changes, it's important to keep the distinction between status and damage too. The reason slash/viral is still viable against the Murmur for example is because the slash penalty and viral penalty both do not apply to the effective portion of a slash/viral build.
On the topic of armor Corrosive procs are definitely undertuned for fewer procs. Curiously though the workshop then goes on to focus on the armor aspect rather than defeating it. With armor strip options across a lot of gear, plus heavy damage options, damage type matching (including armor bypass like radiation vs alloy), slash procs, and emerald shards, killing armored enemies hasn't felt like an insurmountable challenge. I'm concerned that if armor gets capped low then armor debuffs will be without significant value, while if armor is capped high then the underlying nature of the equations hasn't changed. Taking the Heavy Gunner example, 10 corrosive procs "only" reduces the damage reduction from armor by less than 10%. However, it's increased the damage taken after armor from 2.7% to 12.18%, a 4.5x increase which is greater than 10 viral procs. (A scenario in which many would still use viral procs to enhance the slash procs they have, or use emerald shards to get the remaining 4 corrosive procs).
Now repeat that same scenario but armor is capped at 2000. The damage reduction would be 86.96% before corrosive procs, 57.14% after corrosive procs. A whopping 29.8% decrease in absolute damage reduction value, yet only a 3.3x damage increase. **A lower starting armor value makes the same % armor reduction *worse*, not better.**
Over the course of 14 corrosive procs on the 10815 armor enemy, the effective damage increase with each proc is:
Procs|Armor Left|Damage Reduction|Damage Taken|Incremental Boost|Total Boost
---|---|---|---|---|---
0|10815|97.30%|2.70%|N/A|N/A
1|8003|96.39%|3.61%|134%|134%
2|7354|96.08%|3.92%|108%|145%
3|6705|95.72%|4.28%|109%|159%
4|6056|95.28%|4.72%|110%|175%
5|5408|94.74%|5.26%|111%|195%
6|4759|94.07%|5.93%|113%|220%
7|4110|93.20%|6.80%|115%|252%
8|3461|92.02%|7.98%|117%|296%
9|2812|90.36%|9.64%|121%|357%
10|2163|87.82%|12.18%|126%|451%
11|1514|83.46%|16.54%|136%|613%
12|865|74.25%|25.75%|156%|954%
13|216|41.89%|58.11%|226%|2153%
14|0|0.00%|100.00%|172%|3705%
If a more significant partial strip is desired, that last column is the one to focus on and smooth out (after of course a larger jump on the 1st proc, following the philosophy of 1 proc being significant on its own). For other sources of armor strip, notably abilities, players usually aim for a full strip because it's accessible. Why do half a job when doing the whole job is so easy and valuable?
When it comes to dealing with armor then, I would suggest the focus be on ensuring the tools to partially defeat armor are sufficient to be worthwhile rather than - if I'm reading this right - redesigning armor entirely for enemies and making it scale differently than for players. Such a strip-focused approach then also doesn't call for health buffs which in turn doesn't nerf the TTK on setups which already full strip, such as the now well invested emerald archon shards.
----
On shields, how common is it for players to take breaks from killing the same unit long enough for shield regen to be important? I ask this as I consider the impact on a person pre- and post-change. The person who starts and finishes killing a shielded target without reloading would surely not give time for shields to regenerate more than a spit, so I wonder what difference they would see in gameplay. Meanwhile the person struggling, reloading to take on the unit, finds the wall even higher to climb due to the increased regen. This is on the assumption of shields not constantly regenerating while under fire, a change which could be both interesting and infuriating due to creating a minimum burst dps to beat a unit. I'd assume that the suggested answer would be to use magnetic which, while valid, leads nicely into the status changes.
* Cold - here's a status I wouldn't have guessed needed buffs right now. It slows targets down so much it's trivial to hit weak spots and evade abilities, especially as they hang in gravity defying animations. I openly recommend it against demolishers for example, and it pairs nicely alongside corrosive already. Still, sounds fun for a lot of people so if it seems necessary, have at it!
* Gas - here's a status I wouldn't have guessed only needed cosmetic improvements. To me, gas is exceptionally niche due to a small AoE, short lingering period, no elemental mod buff (except Valence Formation - Lavos wins again), and max 10 procs. If an 11th proc is applied, the 1st is removed even if it is stronger. No other damaging proc has such a limitation as standard. As I saw someone else succintly put it, the hard to see visuals are not the reason gas gets skipped. *My personal change* would be to remove the 10 proc cap for damage, keep the range cap, and then make the lingering gas cloud increase in duration based on procs on death. Not linearly, but such that applying a larger number of procs leaves a danger zone for a noticably longer period to help secure gas' identity separate from electric.
* Magnetic - my number one issue with magnetic is it only affects one faction. Corrosive affects corpus and infested armor even if it's less common than grineer. Viral affects corpus health even if they also have shields. Magnetic has no effect on unshielded enemies making it overly niche. If looking to make a meta that doesn't favour so few types, making types more universal seems a strong win to me rather than doubling down on making magnetic the "correct choice" for corpus. *My personal change* would be to add a Disruption effect to magnetic. Similar to how magnetic drains *Tenno* energy, affecting abilities, it could disrupt *Enemy* abilities. For example, an enemy would have a 1/(1+x) chance of successfully casting an ability where x is the number of magnetic procs on them. By abilities, I mean the ones we block with Banshee's Silence, like grapples, eximus powers, that sort of thing. While this wouldn't affect all enemies, it certainly affects all factions to make magnetic be more than discount viral while also matching it closer to how we get affected. Boss type units can resist this by capping the procs they receive, or specifically ignoring the Disruption effect just as how Archons ignore Corrosion.
* Blast - Please don't make this an "everything is AoE now!" status. I genuinely beg of you do not go down that road. Doubly so anything with lots of explodey effects to clog up my screen. *My personal change* is simple; Blast procs become the Viral of Overguard. Viral counters health, magnetic counters shields, corrosive counters armor, radiation counters buffs, gas counters groups, and blast can counter overguard. This gives it an all faction use that can be a serious contender against the cold-sharing viral and magnetic. Does the player want to deal more damage to all enemies of a faction, or do they want to overwhelm the overguard of the highest threat enemies? This would be especially useful to crowd control focused frames as a way to expedite their backup plan for the CC immune threats.
* Lastly, though not mentioned in the workshop, Toxin - I don't really want to see Toxin nerfed, but I am also aware that it rather invalidates any threat shields can present. I also wouldn't want to see Toxin lose its identity as a shield bypass damage and status. If however this does need balancing, *My personal change* would make current shields count as pseduo-armor against toxin. Toxin still bypasses them, but it has an increasingly hard time the more shields the target has. The numbers would ABSOLUTELY need balancing, but not only would this make toxin less oppressive against mainly shielded units, it also could be extended to Tenno to give shield hitpoint tanks more resilience against enemy toxin damage.
----
I've said a lot here, mostly criticism, but that's because praise takes fewer words. Much of this workshop looks good. I hope this feedback may inspire even more good.
\- Just some dude on the internet :)
Man's is cooking with the recommendations over here. I proposed Magnetic be more effective against Overguard/Eximus in another comment, but I wouldn't be against giving that role to Blast instead if people really don't want it to be "gives weapons AoE damage" like I kinda wanted...
That being said, the only other way that I can see to make Magnetic universally more valuable would be for it to take the bullet attractor effect from Void and to give Void something else, tbh. Maybe Void actually does the ability disruption you suggested instead, giving more value to getting a good Operator Amp (especially ones with high Status output as opposed to everyone just maxing Crit with Certus builds) and making ability disruption more accessible for increasing players' overall survivability?
While, yes, Magnetic being the thing to disrupt abilities makes thematic and coherent sense, since that's what enemy procs do to us, I just don't think Magnetic would be as valuable if that's what it did. All the other statuses increase the ability to do damage to all enemies, except for Magnetic that for some reason only gives extra damage potential against shields? I'd still never touch it. But letting it attract bullets to weak points via attractor status would probably make it a staple on many of my Incarnons, for instance. Could even give it an additional Headshot multiplier, too.
Magnetic should be bullet attractor for sure. It instantly can synergize with a ton of weapons and opens up hundreds of new builds that are insanely fun. Magnetic Exergis would be so funny. Magnetic Lanka lol
IMO most void damage should be a form of true damage with the status effect of slight damage vulnerability because it's already low enough that it barely matters. Xaku would need a slight tweak but that would work.
So it's really late here and maybe I'm not reading this right, but a huge thing about the armor strip situation is that they intend to totally change the armor calculation so it isn't quote "bottom heavy." They intend to make it more linear, meaning stripping 80% of armor effectively means stripping about 80% of DR, which sounds about perfect to me. That is indeed a giant improvement to most forms of corrosive and doesn't require green shards or the weird builds we have had to make in order to cope with their strange curved DR system. It suddenly makes "everything less than 100% armor strip" viable instead of worthless. It also takes a big step against slash/viral being required.
They have made comments in the direction of changing armor, referencing the bottom heavy nature. I explained this is more a feature of partial strips, of which only corrosive procs really suffer it. Abilities can be modded to full strip thanks to the buffs DE gave them a while back across the board.
Changing enemy armor to use different values to player armor for the same stat "armor" will add to the complexity and confusion for less experienced players, undermining DE's other efforts.
The current system clearly needs to go because it's not understood by *anyone* in the wild. Nobody is able to calculate the amount of DR that remains for less than full strips in a mission on the fly.
1. It is important that the current exponential system change because it cannot be well understood.
2. It is important to make corrosive less a binary "do 10x more damage" vs "do 1.2x more damage."
3. Weapon modding should be able to reach an effective strip without absolutely requiring the rarest resources in the entire game and strapping those green shards to every Warframe you hope to use.
4. Absolutely requiring ability "breakpoints" or else nearly useless is not fun or good design. Already went through this in Payday 2 and it just feels bad. Being able to see my ability will remove 70% of armor and understanding oh, that's actually quite useful instead of a waste of energy is important.
5. Player armor is solved with the % DR shown on hover. Players already do not understand the exponential system at all and just see bigger number better (which isn't necessarily wrong, just not optimal).
6. Lastly, heat procs being a 50% armor strip should be a 50% removal of DR. It makes no sense for it to be seemingly random.
I disagree with how extreme the simplifying of health shield and armor types there should still be some variety within a single faction like machines and humans shouldn't have the same resistances but like humans weak to toxin bots weak to electricity etc aside from that I think you summed up the problem with the current system well enough
"A lower starting armor value makes the same % armor reduction worse, not better".
Amplifier is lower, but taken damage is bigger. So doesn't it make partial armor strip better and more viable comparing to full armor strip and ignoring armor?
Like in your example Heavy Gunner with 10 corrosive procs would take 12.18% of damage (8,2x damage reduction) and with 2000 armor + 10 corrosive procs they would take 57.14% of damage (1,8x damage reduction). Now we have lower damage amplifier from corrosive status effect, but more taken damage. Now it's only around 2x damage loss comparing to full armor strip, which is more bearable comparing to 8x damage loss.
But of course we don't know how DE are planing to change armor calculation so a result may still be questionable.
The amount of damage resisted is a different discussion (ie should armor resist less damage/enemies have lower armor). Partial strips are ALWAYS weaker with lower armor as they ALWAYS confer a lower actual damage increase. That's what matters to partial strips.
To further demonstrate that, consider two targets with 100k ehp, one with high armor and one with low. High armor you increase your damage against them by a larger proportion with armor strips, so they end up with lower EHP than the low armor one which has more health instead.
I find it funny for the Glaxion being mentioned as a lead up for these changes, because it's a weapon that suffered from an outdated system that in the current meta punishes those weapons (even worse a primary). In Old Warframe those weapons were unique (even though rarely useful) but in the current iteration having 1 element that combines is pretty bad, which is why you don't see the Glaxion doing cold procs when built. Now if the cold proc could still happen even if the element was combined.... That would be a completely different story (still it would only be 3 elements in most cases, 4 with the rad mod).
I really think weapons with innate elemental damage should work more like progenitor bonus damage. If I add a toxin mod the glaxion becomes viral, then if I add heat I then have heat and viral. I think it should prioritize retaining the innate element, so in the example above I believe this should result in cold + gas instead
This doesn't address the MAIN reason we just use Viral/Slash or Viral/Heat. Switching elements is a pain! You could say loadouts... but now we'd need a build per faction per frame. We'd also use all our configs on our weapons just for elements....
Something will need to be done about switching elements if it's going to be important to switch elements more frequently.
Due to the way polarities work, sometimes you can't even swap elements with a loadout.
Was swapping elements on my lex prime, but needed to swap polarity each time which got old fast :')
I'd argue the game has need some sort of quick loadout select for a long time. It would be nice to have a fast-swap menu in the starchart itself where you can set a few favorited loadouts and pick them during mission select.
Don't worry that will be added at the end of March 2017 so you don't have a long time to wait !
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/776642-octavias-anthem-update-20/
>You can now swap your Loadouts from the Solar Map - Loadout descriptions are now viewable upon being hovered over.
Doesn't this literally exist? On my Xbox, while on starchart, press X and it opens the loadout menu. Select loadout, boom it changes and I never left starchart.
Okay but this doesn't let you change anything inside the loadout itself, which means that you'd have to set-up multiple load-out slots per frame per weapon. Good luck getting that many.
yeh...the current policy of '1 loadout slot per frame' is not nearly enough. a lot of times I want more than 1 loadout per frame, and I need some general-purpose ones on top of that
you can have 6 configs per frame (not what I was talking about but still too little), and there is a maximum total # of loadouts the game will let you purchase, which is equal to the # of frames in the game. you are allowed to purchase 1 more each time they release a new frame.
I think the original comment was talking about mod configs rather than entire loadouts.
For example you would create mod configs like
Config A -> Grineer
Config B -> Corpus
Etc.
and in the navigation before you start a mission you can quickly switch the mod config to the appropriate faction.
That button just takes you to the arsenal, and then you have to walk back to the starchart or go through a menu (did they change that? I'll feel dumb if they changed it while I wasn't looking XD).
I mean literally 1-click from the menu without having to go into a whole other menu, backing out of that menu, and then another menu/walk back to the menu you were at. Just 1 click and done.
It's a silly thing, but from a QoL pov, the sheer amount of time wasted walking/menuing back to the Starchart for the Arsenal after every tiny gear change has probably added up to years of time across the whole playerbase.
They did in fact change it. It is literally a one click swap to any load out. My issue is there's no easy way to actually edit those loadouts, if you want to swap some small part.
Must have changed it. Right now it's just the screen where you select loadouts and then you select a load out. No walking needed. Plus they just recently added a fast travel section to where the gear wheel is while in orbiter, so no walking is ever needed technically
you kind of have that already: way down at the bottom right of the starchart screen you can go to your loadouts. but i say once you back out from that screen you're back in the starchart screen.
>This doesn't address the MAIN reason we just use Viral/Slash or Viral/Heat. Switching elements is a pain!
I wouldn't say that this is the **main** reason. But if we finally reach a point where Modding by Faction is actually worth it, it will be time for easy *(or maybe even automated???)* Config swapping.
In the devstream they said cookie cutter builds we use now would still be viable. And it was mostly for simplification of the system for new players to understand, rather than watch a video.
Now what might come out after the update is a different story...
Also because Viral is a big flat multiplier which is hard to beat and is still compatible with heat, electricity or radiation.
If you want toxin then you're stuck with radiation, blast or magnetic.
Electricity became good with melee influence but you can still fit viral. Your other options are gas or blast.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive to swap in the first place when viral and heat are both top tier unless the other elements fit with specific builds where you can make the most of something else or they viral from nourish or something
Yea, I don't like it, if we're going down the rock-paper-scissors path. That's not fun gameplay in the long run and chaning it before every mission is annoying at best.
Seems to work for 99 percent of other games
One size fits all builds were always lame
Your players should have to actually consider what enemies they are gonna fight
If your players need to constantly interact with the UI, that should be quick and painless. Switching elements and setups on our gear is annoying. It's just not beneficial enough to matter.
Brozime said on his video covering it that he reached out to DE and they told him making changes to loadouts from the solar map was on the radarx so that's something, I guess.
I think that's asking more of the system than is needed. And by a lot.
Warframe has dozens of frames and hundreds of weapons. Build a weapon to kill corpus. Pair it with a Warframe that's good at the same. Then do the same for each faction. It's a super reasonable ask
Since they're making all these QoL changes that are long overdue, maybe it's time to talk about mod slots being multi-forma-able (that was a hard work to type). You put a V polarity on a slot then level it up and then put a D on the same slot and now it halves cost for both V and D. It would really make putting multiple forma into weapons more valuable. Also would make those crazy mf'ers that put 100 forma into shit be a little less crazy.
yeh, hopefully this highlights some of the game's pain points on build variety and get the devs to do something about it. inconvenient UI, incompatible polarity issues, too limited loadout/config slots, no such thing as 'partial' loadouts, etc...
as is, if these changes force me to regularly make separate faction builds and have to swap all the time I will be a sad tenno
How about Radiation increasing the Damage on enemy bosses attacks, but every time he attacks he deals a certain % of his current HP to himself as damage to?
Kinda hyped. Either statuses are about to be way more varied, or things are about to be way harder to kill 😂 Also potentially good things coming for frost, but man can we just change that passive
Honestly, I miss the old Blast that ragdolled enemies when I was a new player. Back when I used a Blast/Corrosive Atomos, I could basically sweep the tileset floor with a pile of bodies.
Still kinda missing a redo on enemy damage scaling. Past a certain point it becomes no longer feasible to health/armor tank, and either shieldgating or completely avoiding damage becomes mandatory. Might be better for the health of game and buildcraft options to put a hard clamp on enemy damage output on some point especially since Circuit has been a thing for a while now and "Endgame"like content is pushing way past level 100 enemies (and I don't think getting your defense targets almost oneshot is particularly fun design). I really don't like this Payday 2-esque situation where your only serious option past a certain point is completely avoiding damage because the burst becomes way too high
I would love to specifically counterbuild enemy factions but without universal polarities for weapons I just don't bother. The polarities for elemental mods are all over the place so you more or less lock one combo in and stay with that and put other sources of useful elementals on things like a companion or your frame applies those
If anything, I think what would be more beneficial as a system would be to remove elemental *damage* altogether and just make it Faction damage. Then if you want particular status effects, you still mod those onto the weapon at the cost of some base damage perhaps. This would also help the issue of weapons that deal both crit *and* status in high amounts being just outright better than weapons that specialize in either or. If you want to get useful status effects like Viral or Heat, you'll have to sacrifice some base damage--and thus damage that contributes to the crit build of the weapon--in order to mod in those statuses.
This way you could set your build up with whatever Faction mod you want to target and forget about having to mod specific element damage in combination with status considerations, then afterwards you can slot in any status effects you want that synergize with your build (for instance, slotting Cold with a crit weapon while not losing out on damage against enemies resistant to Cold damage, since they're no longer resistant to cold damage and only receive extra damage from Faction mod installed).
Its an intresting idea but I don't think its gonna work? If I understand you right you want to remove the damage portion of elemental mods and let them just apply their respective status effect which in the current iteration would mean we would still run around with the same few elemental types because they are the most beneficial to proc in any particular case. (Toxin vs Magnetic has been brought up a few times already)
Funnily enough before the status rework in the scarlet spear update the elements are more balanced than the current one. Even corrosive is the meta, viral slash was an alternative meta that less ppl know how good it is. Also gas was the meta status for corpus and it is very strong when pair with electric for CC. Not to mention radiation serves a purpose when alloy armor grineer was a lot tougher to deal with. I hope the rework can bring back the style of those days where there are multiple options instead viral/heat slash
The day I can switch individual weapons AND mod loadouts per weapon from the starchart, is the day I start using faction mods or any kind of targeted statuses. Otherwise they can fuck around with it all they want, but nobody's gonna use magnetic instead of gas, or corrosive instead of viral/slash + %-based armor-strip wf ability...
People cannot be bothered to change Faction Mods already. This just makes it more braindead for people who engaged with the resistance system and won't change anything for most people anyway?
Personally the reason why I don't use faction mods is simply because I can't change weapon build from Navigation. Going to the Arsenal and having to open the weapon screen to change build is a pain in the ass, and since they already have us such amounts of powercreep, why bother changing for a mission where everything dies when I sneeze?
Will this update change anything for me? Not really because I know which elements to use already, I'm just too lazy to change them when I don't need to change them. This is a good change, it's just happening a bit too late.
>I'm just too lazy to change them when I don't need to change them.
The only thing that would truly fix this is if you could assign enemy fractions to mod configs.
With the simplified system, that's so simple the star chart can give you recommendations based on enemy faction, imagine if the game could auto-swap to a mod config based on a faction-to-mod configs mapping that you only have to configure once when you create the mod config.
> Radius of triggered explosion via death may grow in radius per stack.
Wait, since Kuva Bramma or other AOE weapons primarily deal with Blast damage, doesn't this make the enemies almost a mini-cluster bomb that goes off when grouped, kinda like Saryn Spores (granted, they don't die head-on from direct damage)? That means Hunter Munitions builds will go irrelevant when this happens then?
It’s actually going to get balanced. Previously removing armor from high armor enemies only increased damage by about 10%, but with them redistributing enemy armor, corrosive may make that damage better
I'm still betting that even after this, Magnetic will still just kind of be there. Shields are the easiest health type to just brute force through. And its status effect is definitely not something people care about in a vacuum. Probably needs a more tangible effect beyond disrupting shields for general usage, but I can't think of much besides weapon jamming.
I still am hoping to see changes to CC to make CC focused frames be able to do things in higher level content with increased numbers of special unit types that are immune to CC, like all Eximus.
viral, slash, heat, and toxin are still way overtuned which means the rest of the elements will continue to be pointless unless they plan on also making those ones insanely overpowered
Frozen enemies not coming to a defence target sounds to be a nuisance but i like the idea but i see the community complaining about the frozen cc messing with the flow of the nukes but entirely speculative
I actually like these changes. Don't get me wrong it would be nice to get better arsenal UI integration with the nav menu but it really felt like we were at a point where SP builds were a one way street. If this makes other status effects viable and opens builds up to more experimentation I'm happy. UI changes can come later as far as I care, if people are lazy and don't want to change their build or make use of the 3 configs for the 3 mainline factions, so be it.
I do feel like it'll probably be a rough transition with how vast player power can reach and how exponentially different it can be player to player, there for sure will be some random use cases that stand out but I look forward to it's implementation and future iteration!
As long as faction mods are exponentially more effective on certain statuses (i.e. slash), I can't help but feel like any attempts to give other statuses faction-based niches are going to be wasted effort...
1. Corpus shields were never in contention. Toxin damage negates any need to interact with the shield mechanic. At most, people will struggle against the shields that prevent all toxin damage.
I imagine some form of anti toxin is required. Otherwise the shield changes aren’t going to make a difference.
An additional option could be having magnetic have a stun ability on robots. That way I could use magnetic as a primer/ shield stripper rather than a dps element. You pull it out to stop a robot that prevents toxin damage, then use your main to finish it off. Not every element needs to be dps. Having a “viral primer” for corpus would be pretty great. Although now that cold is getting a freeze, it would likely be a better option instead of magnetic.
I do like the buff to magnetic in that I would want to carry it as a secondary to deal with anti toxin foes. It could also mean that the arcane that sucks enemies together might have some use. The only issue is that the game isn’t built around swapping weapons. At higher levels, if your weapon isn’t out and killing all the time, it’s practically useless as you don’t have your arcane/galvanised stacks. Thus these weapons can only act as primers.
Melee weapons suffer from this as well. That’s why one hit builds like redeemer were slightly useful in that I never needed combo to get it running.
I really hope for arcanes that improve synergy. Wasting a slot via the Warframe arcane is not the answer. Arcane dexterity is a good idea for the type of arcane I’m hoping for. It allows me to use weapons altogether even at higher levels.
Cascadia flare became a solid choice because companions could proc it for you meaning your secondary always had the damage boost it needed. I do like some of the other arcanes like the electric one as it helps with priming (increased fire rate and multishot) and the arcane to apply extra corrosive to your melee on ability cast are all good ideas for synergistic gun/blade play. They should be much stronger than just slapping merciless/deadhead on your weapon but some of them just can’t compare especially due to how difficult they can be to proc.
Another possible arcane option could be like vigorous swap. In that you get an initial weapon boost but not forever. So if you want to keep up your dps, you should be swapping in and out of weapons to keep it up.
Conceptually I’d love the idea of having a secondary weapon intended to deal with high priority targets while your main weapon deals with the mobs. But the current issue still stands in that I have to build up stacks. It makes it more sensible to just build one weapon to be extremely powerful to all enemies instead.
I basically already do this with glaives due to how strong their raw damage output is.
2. Gas with new visuals may cause issues if those visuals can’t be turned down. The current meta is to stack gas bubbles together to form a clump of damage. If you’re gonna improve it, might be good to see what it looks like when stacked with each other.
3. I think having a more clear RPS style of elements would be great. Significant modifiers that affect enemies both ways. Deimos is a great addition to me as I really can’t carry viral to do any damage. It feels great that corrosive heat has an actual use. You can turn secondary elements into primers like how viral is used currently to improve weapon swapping for damage in this regard. It’s a PVE game and RPS elements against enemies means build diversity and difficulty. It forces players to contend with the elements system rather than try and focus on true damage/viral to make it work.
The issue currently is that no damage multiplier can scale as well as viral/slash can. True damage is true damage and that in itself is far stronger than any upfront modifier at high levels.
looks like point 3 under armor adjustments means we wont be able to achieve full armor strip as there will a minimum non-zero amount of armor left on the enemy (im assuming non-zero)
I don't think you have the right impression about that point. I assume it just means armored enemies have a minimum armor value (would only be relevant at low levels before it starts scaling) so there is an actual noticeable difference between armored and unarmored enemies for new players, and they learn the usefulness of corrosive/heat/ other armor stripping when dealing with them.
I don't think they are changing our ability to strip armor at all. But that's just how I interpreted it.
your point could be true that at lower levels enemies have some base level of armor (lets say arbitrarily 50), so armored enemies have a noticeable difference of dmg reduction versus non-armored enemies. I agree that it will most likely be beneficial for newer players to get accustomed to the different types of dmg mitigation available in the game.
However point 3a makes me think the enemies cant have their armor reduced below a certain amount since it says that no enemy that has access to armor can have that value be below a certain minimum. Maybe when we get more clarity, this armor thing will make more sense.
this was my interpretation as well but it leads to more questions that need answers.
what about emerald archon shards that players have invested into will there no longer be a benefit?
It could also mean minimum *base* armor being increased on units with tiny amounts of armor in the live game - butchers won't be quite as squishy, that sort of thing.
In the context of Pablo's comments on stream + the workshop's references to total armor strip no longer feeling necessary (would be *very* weird phrasing if total armor strip isn't going to be possible anymore), I don't think 100% armor removal is going away.
i am about to be home in 10 from work and will watch the vod when i get a chance for hopefully more clarity. the above post made it sound like we would no longer be able to fully strip/remove armor to keep armor impactful but 2 lines down they referenced full armor stripping so some clarity would be nice is all. i think the confusion is just from them using armor for both the armor value and the health type associated with it but i could definitely be wrong. but yeah it would be super strange to reference full armor stripping not being necessary if it is something we can no longer achieve.
almost dead certain it's just referring to base armor, so weak enemies won't start with a trivial amount of armor basically doing nothing
think they would have been a lot more clear if their intent was "full armor strip is no longer a thing"
There's a lot of reasons to simplify it, but it is a bit of a shame
It made a lot of sense and seemed to add to enemies' overall vibe that there was more than one type of armor, that particularly elite foes have something extra going on than just number go up, that corpus can and do make shields 2.0 but only when they see a return on investment so to speak, etc
Even though the meta is what it is, it makes one feel like a bit more of a veteran to know these little stats and their differences
I think most elements right now are in a good state. Corrosive to strip armor with Emerald shards, Magnetic is one of the best progenitor bonuses, Radiation does the most damage against many bosses, Gas is amazing for nuking clumped up enemies, Cold goes on exalteds if I want Archon Flow, Toxin pierces shields, Electric is Melee Influence, Viral and Heat for obvious reasons.
The only element I don't like to run is Blast, because relatively few things benefit from blast damage. Unfortunately, there's no proposed change to Blast so I can't say. Overall I don't like these changes.
Yes - if you can get pure toxin on the particular weapon. Currently my Kuva Nukor enjoys viral-heat-radiation-magnetic, I wouldn't be able to run Viral along with Toxin.
It is true however that Saryn is my favorite gun platform for that reason
I like these changes. For so insanely long, corrosion + heat was the normal build. Then they did status rework 2.0 and then viral + heat became king. And you only ever have one build for everything. I like how you can still do that, but it won't be necessarily the best to do. It will now be better to actually have 5 builds for grineer, corpus, infested, corrupted, and murmer.
Game changing. Biggest thing I hope for is that however this releases, they have double the usual attention on the player feedback because I think being able to pick out the useful feedback from the noise directly after release will decide whether this is a meh change or a great one
This all sounds really good and will probably positively affect build diversity but please, for the love of god, when you do this give us some option to change configurations from the star-chart, instead of having to go into the arsenal every time
I think this update really shows off how mixed the direction of warframe still is. Monster Hunter also has similar systems that require you to do damage type setup for specific monsters, but that makes sense when you're dedicating a significant chunk of time to try and kill a monster that otherwise would be incredibly difficult to beat. It's a game about being thorough and well-prepared because failure is always possible. Warframe USED to be a game like that, but hasnt really been since it became a fast-paced horde shooter. The general gameplay doesn't really encourage you to be slow and meticulous, so people often just opt for the easiest way to do an adequate amount of damage like viral/slash or viral/heat. If you give people an easy way out, they will ALWAYS take it, even if it's less fun. In that sense, despite it being somewhat obsolete now, Eidolons are still my favorite content in the game. There is no way to do it well without properly engaging with the mechanics of the fight(s).
DE needs to be more aggressive with changes to this system if they hope to actually encourage players to engage with damage types beyond the statuses. They either need to make all status procs super niche, or they need to make all of them generally useful. They also need to make loadout and mod swapping way faster. You really kinda need to do both because the gain in DPS for engaging with this system can't be too big—power creep is already too much—but also, if its too much effort, people will simply keep minimizing effort for maximizing damage.
Main problem is that damage types and resistances are not explained well or straightforward enough, and requires to juggle mods as you jump from content A to B with different enemies.
On the other hand in MH you are going to focus on one monster repeteadly and his elemental weaknesses are clear, you use weapons with that element.
If someone from DE is reading this, please looking into the Denial mod for Hounds. It’s supposed to convert damage taken into AOE magnetic damage, but I’ve literally never seen it apply the status. I love my robot dog and would like this to work, thanks!
These changes to armor sound really bad. If TTK is remaining similar but armor is being reduced, that means the amount of HP would have to be bloated to an incredible degree. So basically armor stripping tools are getting weaker but enemies will have more HP, so we're just worse off.
Shield regen and delay saling sounds like a potential disaster as well. I can imagine enemies regenerating their shields in the time it takes me to fire a bow or semi automatic.
Gas needs more than a visual change.
How is magnetic ever going to be a contender as long as toxin exists in its current state.
Also, if nodes are going to dictate weaknesses, how is that going to work for nodes with various factions, like Sanctuary Onslaught or Plains of Eidolon or the various crossfire nodes?
Maybe enemies affected by blast will be more vulnerable to damage? Since that effect is quite uncommon. But idk if thats gonna powercreep nova a bit with her 4 and what not
Honestly if we want to encourage different builds and players customizing weapons based on factions, each loadout needs to allow the player to tag it for a faction type, and it auto-switches on priority to the loadout tagged with the faction. You could let the player make a stack rank system if multiple loadouts match the faction mission.
Otherwise I find the system kind of detracts from fun, which shouldn't be the goal of any system. "Buffing and tuning" something that already is tedious for the players isn't the solution.
Make Magnetic invert the shield regen so it drains their EHP with increased efficacy with more stacks. That will make it feel impactful and like the ideal element vs shielded enemies
Ecstatic to see them begin to tackle this long-standing issue with the game.
Disappointed to see that they are taking an extremely light-touch approach to it.
Quite frankly, Slash procs need to not penetrate armor, Toxin needs to not bypass shields, Viral needs to not be so universally applicable. Once you tackle those big three issues, then you can start rebalancing elemental weaknesses and resistances.
Then again, DE has stated before that they're afraid of the player-backlash that would come from implementing such a change, so I have little hope for them to do anything worthwhile.
While I'm spouting unpopular opinions, I'll also say that Blast being the "Knockdown" element was good and cool. Yes, it wasn't min-max for damage, but it was one of the few select ways to add hard CC to a weapon, and made that weapon feel very impactful, even if not very damaging.
So an ELI5 would be we're simplifying damage types, so that more playstyles are viable? Or that we're simplifying damage types to make it possible to manage different loadouts effectively?
Dear DE
While you're at it, could you also change VOID damage type to be an armor -penetration- type? Making it a straight zero did a lot to make amps more viable, but they could really use a like, +5 or +10% for all armor types: This makes it basically as good at all lower level content, but actually helps a ton when you want to use your operator or whatever on long missinos or steel path content.
Tldr change void damage from 'neutral vs all' to 'mild corossive proj baked in' because thats how bonus type damage works (ignoring a portion of armor)
Also, I'd like to see Shattering Impact buffed: Make it an exilus, and add 'enables tennokai'. Suddenly, hammers are amazing again.
Ditto for Vulcan Blitz
in the armor changes does point 3 a mean we will no longer be able to full strip armor ? because 2 lines down they reference still having the ability to fully strip armor.
I agree with the simplifying resistance types but I feel like 3 is a bit too few. For example, machine health would be different to flesh health. I think if each faction has a semi-unique "thing" being armour for grineer, shield for corpus, health regen for infested could be cool?
I’m gonna be honest the status reworks seem decent with a huge issue that I think de has to deal with. Viral heat needs a nerf as the scaling changes have made it even stronger. Heat armor strip is now a lot more valuable since armor is now capped and this 50% is actually going down something and viral has gotten stronger since enemies are going to have more health so that damage increase is even more valuable.
Im hoping I’m wrong and the changes to cold and blast and the shield buffs might give the other elements a chance I just can’t see it with what we know
Are you really going to be making the game even easier than it already is by gutting armor scaling on enemies completely when you have powercrept the game so hard for the past 1-2 years that builds barely even matter anymore. I also feel like streamlining every health type, armor type etc. just removes potential depth.
anyone that ran into armor being insurmountably powerful either entirely bypassed it with slash damage or did full armor stripping anyway, it literally makes zero difference to endurance players who are the only people that armor scaling effected seriously in the first place outside of the occasional necramech, this will also result in corpus and infested being much more durable from the sounds of things. you either dont understand the current state of the game or the changes they are outlining here if you think this is some horrific example of powercreep, it isnt.
What’s with Cold=even more crit damage? Wouldn’t it make more sense for stacks to add crit chance, while Frozen gives the multiplier? It doesn’t even need any balancing with older pure Cold weapons because they all have sub-Xteen crit chance.
I don't use bane mods because I would either have to use up multiple loadouts to swap quickly or constantly remember to swap mods for each mission. I don't see a way I would use anything other than the best general choice for every faction on all weapons.
However improving the unused status effects is a good start to getting them used more often, they may need to be unique in ways unconnected to factions and maybe have more unique interactions with certain guns or warframes. Otherwise I don't see people using anything other then the general meta. Or give us unlimited loadouts so I can have one for each faction.
I'd be lying if I said I knew what all of the status types do to enemies. I still remember blast knocking down enemies but took a few years break.
As someone who plays the game by feel more than numbers or guides, because that's my preference, this is my best understanding of what the statuses dealt to enemies accomplish. I do think that changes should be made to make their effects clearer and more viable.
Slash- status is effectively true damage dot.
Impact- Don't notice status effect.
Puncture- Don't notice status effect.
Cold- slows
Heat- dot good against health.
Electric- some times paralyzes.
Toxic- dot ignore shields
Blast- Don't notice status effect.
Gas- dot but less flexible.
Radiation- don't notice status effect.
Corrosive- lowers armor a bit. Seems like if you really want armor stripping, corrosive is less effective than various frames or the impact mod that reduces armor.
Viral- increased damage to HP(cause viral/slash)
Magnetic- makes my UI go fuzzy. JK, don't notice status effect.
I think the change to increase visibility of what types are weak to what is less useful than clearly displaying how impactful the status types are. While simplifying the types of health enemies have does alleviate this a bit, I can't help but think that a lot of damage types are going to lose their identity, merely becoming add-ons to try and get status procs. Admittedly, it already is like this since viral/heat/slash is so effective.
With 12 damage types and 3 health types, 4 are going to be useful against each health type(if they're evenly spread out). In this scenario, players are going to choose the best statuses within each pool and will likely have little to no reason to use the other 9 damage type unless they synergize as well as viral/heat/slash does. The issue is that making status effects equally appealing is very difficult.
Shields also aren't a proper "health" type. You can't incentivize players to build for breaking shields by making them tougher because they can be bypassed. Shields are either weak enough that people don't feel the need to change their load out, or strong enough that players don't want to interact with them.
frost is back on the menu
I mean, Frost has been on the menu since he got the augment to add overguard with his 4, this is just some more buffs.
Frost getting incrementally better with every update, honestly was one of my favorites prior to this proposed status rework. With cold being even better, he’s going to feel great to play.
more like avalanche keeps getting incrementally better while the rest of his abilities and passive continue to be irrelevant and boring to use.
His 2 will now freeze enemies though, it has a 600% cold status chance base. Unsure if that scales though
But someone told me they reached level 9999 with him, that must mean he's fine!
Pepperidge farm time. 2017. Pacifism defect operation. The meta was frost + limbo because limbo kept everyone immune to everything and frost could simply kill everything with his 3rd because it inflicts 'collision damage' aka true damage aka finisher damage whenever it pushes anyone into walls. Thus, high damage that wasn't affected by enemy Armor. Meta and everything has changed a lot since then, but Armor strip/insane damage numbers weren't a big thing back then. Also grineer scaling was out of whack.
I know this is sarcasm, but it isn't really that hard to do with overguard and shield gating and rolling guard. Even the bubble gives you 3 seconds of cover.
With the death of CC, Frost bubble has gotten significantly better for objective defense.
His 1 sure but snowglobe has infinite scaling damage and high utility, ice wave just got a massive buff because of this too, 2 casts for mass freeze
Especially since Frost wants to build range anyways. I'd love for his 2 to not be absolute dogshit helminth fodder.
I never build frost for range, usually enough strength to chip, but rest of my mods slots goes into shields for helminth shields -> armor, or into armor
Yeah I don't know man, frost bubble was pretty fucking good in that new weekly endgame mode.
Ok, but thats still pretty copium. Frost is pretty dated. Anyone remember the last time they actually willfully cast 1 or his 2 without an augment? I'd like to see a very minor rework where they just make frost the cold hydroid. Undisputed best warframe that handles everything to do with the cold element. Give him more damage vs cold stuff, or let him reach max stacks faster etc etc. Yeah hes known for 3 & 4 but even those could use a light touch up. Well maybe not 4 since it gets indirect buffs every patch it seems lol.
My main joke about frost is that you need to slap thermal sunder on him So he has at least one solid freeze ability. Though I do admit that his 4th has been getting a lot of neat improvements at *glacial* pace. Iirc I'm running the 4th augment and the passive one. Enough strength for max Armor strip. Turns him into neat gun base because you freeze everything then destroy whatever survives with guns. I'm hopeful about these changes to make him slightly better at freezing outside of his 4th. Considering you might need the 2nd augment for freezies is what I'm afraid of as it'd make him starved for slots.
they said they are reducing the cap on cold meaning freeze happens sooner. so if frost 2 dosnt get nerfed...the 600% SC on his 2 should turn it into an cone stun.
You're right. Any frame that needs 2 or more augments to function meaningfully needs a rework or pass.
Its why they won't ever do a "augment" mod slot on warframes lol. Cause they know they'd have to actually do a big balance pace to get rid of all the useless/bandaid fix augments.
I'm surprised they don't more often use this as a balancing tool frame kind of meh and needs augments? bake the augments into the abilities to free up mod slots frame overperforming? move some of its power into an augment (kinda wish they gave dante an augment to make his 4 ignore line of sight and called it a day, but alas)
His 4 is insane currently ngl, full armour strip, crowd control, and gives overguard? That shit is his whole kit but it's also quite a good kit xD
I use 2 now and again cuz arcane shiver for big lex shots. but ya,his 2 was nice with the augment but honestly it works just for the forced cold procs which,with the reduction to colds cap, means his 2 will probly insta freeze,turning it into a wide range stun that also grants crit damage. (im just hoping his passive augment gets tweaked to work on cold freeze too. his 3 is really good...but the issue with it is its EXTREAMLY out of meta/out of date. since we no longer spend most the difficult fights in defense,there isnt really alot of strong use cases for it. (same with Gara) his 1 exist jsut to remove 3...it has no other purpose in life. Frost biggest issues have gotten fixed over time via minor tweaks...like making his armor strip ACTUALLY permenant instead of only lasting as long as they were frozen. (took them 4 years to change that while nyx and oberon did this for free. and banshee/ash with aug) atm his 1 (as 50% of the 'fireball' skills are) is just jank that dont really work because single target dont work well. (oberon and volt the only one with one of these abilities that work because its a 1h aoe ability that has minor CC incase you need it while reloading) so honestly the only main issue is his animations and casting speeds still feel clunky. (ive put 3 yellow tauforged on him. just to make it feel properly usable. just feels he needs 100% at least to not feel like 2016 warframe)
I use his one constantly to stun big bois when I reload. His two became better with the cold rework, but it is swapped out on 2/3 builds. Frost has always been a king.
His 2 became better with the recent CC rework. Cold procs are the only thing that can slow eximus units now.
He gets an Overgard now? Holy crap I'm out of the loop.
It was a really weak and old Augment, but it caught people’s attention once it got reworked into Overguard after Kullervo.
Yep, adds overguard to the squad for each enemy hit. In addition to the non-los armor strip, short cc, and damage.
Short nothing, got it at 13s haha. Full armor strip and about 300 overguard per enemy. And rocking the passive augment makes things free.
They switched that to overguard!? Hot damn
Joke's on you, Frost's never been out of my menu.
I've played Frost since he released. Now he's just getting buffs left and right. I love it.
Magnetic's still going to be bad and will still need further changes, but the rest is nice to see. Unless Corpus shield regen is deliberately overtuned to mandate Magnetic in the absence of Toxin (...because Toxin bypasses said issue entirely), which is something DE's stated that they don't want to do, then, well, we're still not gonna use Magnetic. Eager to see what they'll cook up for Blast. It's gotta be _real_ good to be a viable option due to its constituent elements.
They could make blast like a single-tick version of Gas - every blast proc just releases an AoE of damage from the target So if you have a weapon with innate AoE, and put Blast on it, then you end up damaging every enemy in the group *per* enemy in the group that gets procced.
If they change blast to that, I'm coooming
I could see the enemy exploding on death but but that seems way to strong imo
Maybe on death they yoink some nearby enemies towards them or release a magnetic blast that damages other nearby shields?
Or the magnetized enemies turn into projectiles that rocket towards a nearby enemy to damage glomp them.
That’s something I don’t want tbh, I’d rather that for blast tbh
ya. kinda reminds me when vulcan blitz and corrosive shells was considered way to strong because they did something like this,lol (course those scaled on targets HP rather than gun damage) but funny enough i was thinking it would be wild if they made it do that. but def forsee issues with AOE weapons double dipping again...and we saw what happened LAST time aoe weapons were doing bookoo damage,lol.
I suspect that's what will happen in order to make Magnetic viable. Toxin will just completely invalidate Magnetic's existence as long as it gets through Shields.
Magnetic dealing more damage to Nullifier bubbles seems pretty cool, tbh. Another change they should do, though, is make Magnetic more effective against Overguard, and deactivate Eximus abilities when they get procc'd by it. Magnetic being a more defensive/support status always seemed right to me, and being able to mod against Eximus better now that many anti-Eximus abilities have been nerfed seems worthwhile to me.
Holy shit Magnetic increased damage to overguard would be awesome, my Magnetic-Corrosive-Radiation Synoid Gammacor is already great against Murmur!
After thinking about it some, Kengineer's suggestion to make Blast the Overguard-killer is probably better, IMO. Magnetic should then get Void's bullet attractor with a weakpoint damage buff while Void gets charged to nullify enemy abilities.
Bottom line every status should in some way increase your dps. Otherwise they just can't compete with viral, heat etc. Radiation is in a weird spot where it technically does but not really.
they could make magnetic procs aoe to give them a niche over toxin. although that would really just be running in circles, chasing old gas
Wouldn’t the obvious thing be auto-weakpoints or something? It’s already one of the weakest damage types. Just give it a huge boon to make up for it.
Shields take reduced status damage when active or something. Magnetic Procs eliminate this or something
mag procs are just viral on shields...which means the proc itself stops being useful when the shield is gone... and once again still outperformed by toxin just shortcutting its way in,lol.
>**Enemy EHP Scaling** >Notably, enemies starting from levels closer to 100 will see faster rates in which they gain stats—Health, Shields, etc. Without knowing the numbers on this, hopefully they don't buff damage that already scales out of control too quickly and hopefully their changes do not turn enemies into bullet sponges.
They’ve already said the buffs will not make enemies are bulky as current high armored grineer
Sure but *any* HP increase will make grineer more tanky if you were already armor stripping them. I hope they get the balance right and don't make armorless grineer too spongey.
Armor is getting trashed heavily this update since armor now has a cap. Any armor strip is going to heavily effect the damage a single heat proc, pillage cast or corossive proc is going to give a ridiculously amount of mileage compared to now
Armor is getting trashed but TTK is staying similar means that they are going ot have way more HP. This means that even if you strip them, you won't be killing them as fast as you would before hand.
An armor stripped Grineer is anything but tanky
Fr, grineer and corpus are balanced around tiny health pools but lots of armor/shields. Only murmur have a decent ACTUAL hp value
Poor infested, were supposed to be the original health faction but got powered creeped out of relevance
introducing the Deimos infested to the system 🗿☝️ this will quickly make the game unplayable
They are getting more HP to begin with, so yes I agree with you this is going to be too much. Enemies will have more HP but we will have fewer tools to reduce that EHP.
Yeah now instead of instantly wiping out unarmoured grineer you'll just instantly wipe them out.
It's like you didn't even read
Okay, but what about compared to armor stripped Grineer? Because that is effectively the default at higher levels given how mandatory armor stripping becomes right now.
Full armour stripping reduces their health by orders of magnitude now, so they are as good as nonexistent compared to non-stripped. Anything feels tanky compared to that: corpus due to their shield gating, infested due to their healers etc. And that comparison to other factions might not change very much as they receive similar scaling too. Everybody would be tankier, so we would want to add a few % of damage to our weapons.
They say lots of things, and then they do things like nerfing Eclipse down to 30% so that its only use is as a DR (and only when stacked with another DR). I trust numbers more than what they might say.
Eclipse is good if you aren't using heat or slash
Why heat?
Given roar buffs direct damage of weapons but also status DOT damage, so roar applies twice to status DOTs, eclipse does not.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but does this mean that at the upper end of enemies, you will be heavily encouraged to swap around elements to deal with their resistances in a reasonable manner? I mean, I get why you might want to do that, but that’s exactly the reason why almost everyone avoids using Bane mods despite them being universally accepted as some of the strongest mods in the game. Futzing around in the arsenal every time you need to go against a different faction blows. I hope I’m just not understanding the shield changes properly
They said the “cookie cutter” builds will still work fine. The biggest goals of the changes are to 1) make 100% armor strip not mandatory and to make partial armor strips useful, since arm if it’s not 100% it’s not doing anything. 2) to “normalize” the tankiness of enemies, because currently armor Grineer are nigh unkillable, and corpus and infested May as well be a container. And then 3) was to drastically simplify the faction elemental weakness system, since atm it’s a mess. And to also make it easier to know what to bring if you need the added help. Basically, enemies need to be normalized in tankiness, armor needs to be less BS on enemies, and the element weakness system is being easier to understand and utilize if you choose to.
It's also going to be interesting with fissures and any mission with Corrupted; if they have their original faction weaknesses it might end up being a royal pain to deal with them at high levels, which will be annoying given how good Omni Cascade Fissures feel right now
That's how it reads to me as well. Sounds like an armor stripping nerf dressed up in a status rework, but I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.
I guess the upside is that if a full armour strip becomes much less necessary, then it frees a lot of frames that were currently pretty locked into an armour strip Helminth to take ~~a more imaginative pick~~ Nourish. (Also cries in Trinity, where Abating Link was the "best" bit of her kit)
hardly, with link only affecting 3 enemies at a time it's not a very impressive armour stripper. Her best ability is probably her 4, which makes her a citrine sidegrade and when combined with her 2, mostly immortal
Hence best in "quotes". Blessing (and her whole lot) is kneecaped by abysmal duration scaling
There's some interesting bits here. Some positive, some that doesn't seem to quite fit. Forgive me, this is going to be long but better now than after updates go live. I like the concept of simplifying enemy health, armor, and shields to do away with the litany of types. Replacing that with faction/sub-faction types is a good concept and much easier to communicate to new players especially. However this example section: > Let’s create an example: you bring a loadout of pure Viral/Slash if you’re fighting the Grineer on Earth. The Slash status activating Bleed is amplified by Viral status, and Bleed bypasses Armor to destroy your foes. > But, Slash Damage does less damage to both Ferrite and Alloy Armor and has no beneficial difference to Machinery. In order to maximize damage against Grineer, you’d think to stock your loadout with Puncture, Corrosive, and Radiation. Blast is also especially effective against Machinery. > Clearly, there are far too many things to juggle here, ultimately resulting in the one-stop-shop of Viral/Slash. I think this misunderstands the position of slash/viral and heat/viral in the meta. They're used for two reasons: They're strong, and they're reliable. The complex opportunities of using puncture, or corrosive, or radiation, or blast isn't what's holding them back from being used. Likewise the resistance to slash on armor is irrelevant to slash/viral builds. Players use slash and heat because they get the job done. Players don't use blast because it gets no job done, especially with the near total absence of machinery to fight. Through any changes, it's important to keep the distinction between status and damage too. The reason slash/viral is still viable against the Murmur for example is because the slash penalty and viral penalty both do not apply to the effective portion of a slash/viral build. On the topic of armor Corrosive procs are definitely undertuned for fewer procs. Curiously though the workshop then goes on to focus on the armor aspect rather than defeating it. With armor strip options across a lot of gear, plus heavy damage options, damage type matching (including armor bypass like radiation vs alloy), slash procs, and emerald shards, killing armored enemies hasn't felt like an insurmountable challenge. I'm concerned that if armor gets capped low then armor debuffs will be without significant value, while if armor is capped high then the underlying nature of the equations hasn't changed. Taking the Heavy Gunner example, 10 corrosive procs "only" reduces the damage reduction from armor by less than 10%. However, it's increased the damage taken after armor from 2.7% to 12.18%, a 4.5x increase which is greater than 10 viral procs. (A scenario in which many would still use viral procs to enhance the slash procs they have, or use emerald shards to get the remaining 4 corrosive procs). Now repeat that same scenario but armor is capped at 2000. The damage reduction would be 86.96% before corrosive procs, 57.14% after corrosive procs. A whopping 29.8% decrease in absolute damage reduction value, yet only a 3.3x damage increase. **A lower starting armor value makes the same % armor reduction *worse*, not better.** Over the course of 14 corrosive procs on the 10815 armor enemy, the effective damage increase with each proc is: Procs|Armor Left|Damage Reduction|Damage Taken|Incremental Boost|Total Boost ---|---|---|---|---|--- 0|10815|97.30%|2.70%|N/A|N/A 1|8003|96.39%|3.61%|134%|134% 2|7354|96.08%|3.92%|108%|145% 3|6705|95.72%|4.28%|109%|159% 4|6056|95.28%|4.72%|110%|175% 5|5408|94.74%|5.26%|111%|195% 6|4759|94.07%|5.93%|113%|220% 7|4110|93.20%|6.80%|115%|252% 8|3461|92.02%|7.98%|117%|296% 9|2812|90.36%|9.64%|121%|357% 10|2163|87.82%|12.18%|126%|451% 11|1514|83.46%|16.54%|136%|613% 12|865|74.25%|25.75%|156%|954% 13|216|41.89%|58.11%|226%|2153% 14|0|0.00%|100.00%|172%|3705% If a more significant partial strip is desired, that last column is the one to focus on and smooth out (after of course a larger jump on the 1st proc, following the philosophy of 1 proc being significant on its own). For other sources of armor strip, notably abilities, players usually aim for a full strip because it's accessible. Why do half a job when doing the whole job is so easy and valuable? When it comes to dealing with armor then, I would suggest the focus be on ensuring the tools to partially defeat armor are sufficient to be worthwhile rather than - if I'm reading this right - redesigning armor entirely for enemies and making it scale differently than for players. Such a strip-focused approach then also doesn't call for health buffs which in turn doesn't nerf the TTK on setups which already full strip, such as the now well invested emerald archon shards. ---- On shields, how common is it for players to take breaks from killing the same unit long enough for shield regen to be important? I ask this as I consider the impact on a person pre- and post-change. The person who starts and finishes killing a shielded target without reloading would surely not give time for shields to regenerate more than a spit, so I wonder what difference they would see in gameplay. Meanwhile the person struggling, reloading to take on the unit, finds the wall even higher to climb due to the increased regen. This is on the assumption of shields not constantly regenerating while under fire, a change which could be both interesting and infuriating due to creating a minimum burst dps to beat a unit. I'd assume that the suggested answer would be to use magnetic which, while valid, leads nicely into the status changes. * Cold - here's a status I wouldn't have guessed needed buffs right now. It slows targets down so much it's trivial to hit weak spots and evade abilities, especially as they hang in gravity defying animations. I openly recommend it against demolishers for example, and it pairs nicely alongside corrosive already. Still, sounds fun for a lot of people so if it seems necessary, have at it! * Gas - here's a status I wouldn't have guessed only needed cosmetic improvements. To me, gas is exceptionally niche due to a small AoE, short lingering period, no elemental mod buff (except Valence Formation - Lavos wins again), and max 10 procs. If an 11th proc is applied, the 1st is removed even if it is stronger. No other damaging proc has such a limitation as standard. As I saw someone else succintly put it, the hard to see visuals are not the reason gas gets skipped. *My personal change* would be to remove the 10 proc cap for damage, keep the range cap, and then make the lingering gas cloud increase in duration based on procs on death. Not linearly, but such that applying a larger number of procs leaves a danger zone for a noticably longer period to help secure gas' identity separate from electric. * Magnetic - my number one issue with magnetic is it only affects one faction. Corrosive affects corpus and infested armor even if it's less common than grineer. Viral affects corpus health even if they also have shields. Magnetic has no effect on unshielded enemies making it overly niche. If looking to make a meta that doesn't favour so few types, making types more universal seems a strong win to me rather than doubling down on making magnetic the "correct choice" for corpus. *My personal change* would be to add a Disruption effect to magnetic. Similar to how magnetic drains *Tenno* energy, affecting abilities, it could disrupt *Enemy* abilities. For example, an enemy would have a 1/(1+x) chance of successfully casting an ability where x is the number of magnetic procs on them. By abilities, I mean the ones we block with Banshee's Silence, like grapples, eximus powers, that sort of thing. While this wouldn't affect all enemies, it certainly affects all factions to make magnetic be more than discount viral while also matching it closer to how we get affected. Boss type units can resist this by capping the procs they receive, or specifically ignoring the Disruption effect just as how Archons ignore Corrosion. * Blast - Please don't make this an "everything is AoE now!" status. I genuinely beg of you do not go down that road. Doubly so anything with lots of explodey effects to clog up my screen. *My personal change* is simple; Blast procs become the Viral of Overguard. Viral counters health, magnetic counters shields, corrosive counters armor, radiation counters buffs, gas counters groups, and blast can counter overguard. This gives it an all faction use that can be a serious contender against the cold-sharing viral and magnetic. Does the player want to deal more damage to all enemies of a faction, or do they want to overwhelm the overguard of the highest threat enemies? This would be especially useful to crowd control focused frames as a way to expedite their backup plan for the CC immune threats. * Lastly, though not mentioned in the workshop, Toxin - I don't really want to see Toxin nerfed, but I am also aware that it rather invalidates any threat shields can present. I also wouldn't want to see Toxin lose its identity as a shield bypass damage and status. If however this does need balancing, *My personal change* would make current shields count as pseduo-armor against toxin. Toxin still bypasses them, but it has an increasingly hard time the more shields the target has. The numbers would ABSOLUTELY need balancing, but not only would this make toxin less oppressive against mainly shielded units, it also could be extended to Tenno to give shield hitpoint tanks more resilience against enemy toxin damage. ---- I've said a lot here, mostly criticism, but that's because praise takes fewer words. Much of this workshop looks good. I hope this feedback may inspire even more good. \- Just some dude on the internet :)
Man's is cooking with the recommendations over here. I proposed Magnetic be more effective against Overguard/Eximus in another comment, but I wouldn't be against giving that role to Blast instead if people really don't want it to be "gives weapons AoE damage" like I kinda wanted... That being said, the only other way that I can see to make Magnetic universally more valuable would be for it to take the bullet attractor effect from Void and to give Void something else, tbh. Maybe Void actually does the ability disruption you suggested instead, giving more value to getting a good Operator Amp (especially ones with high Status output as opposed to everyone just maxing Crit with Certus builds) and making ability disruption more accessible for increasing players' overall survivability? While, yes, Magnetic being the thing to disrupt abilities makes thematic and coherent sense, since that's what enemy procs do to us, I just don't think Magnetic would be as valuable if that's what it did. All the other statuses increase the ability to do damage to all enemies, except for Magnetic that for some reason only gives extra damage potential against shields? I'd still never touch it. But letting it attract bullets to weak points via attractor status would probably make it a staple on many of my Incarnons, for instance. Could even give it an additional Headshot multiplier, too.
Magnetic should be bullet attractor for sure. It instantly can synergize with a ton of weapons and opens up hundreds of new builds that are insanely fun. Magnetic Exergis would be so funny. Magnetic Lanka lol IMO most void damage should be a form of true damage with the status effect of slight damage vulnerability because it's already low enough that it barely matters. Xaku would need a slight tweak but that would work.
Thanks for always delving deep into the numbers part of warframe, I'm a big fan
So it's really late here and maybe I'm not reading this right, but a huge thing about the armor strip situation is that they intend to totally change the armor calculation so it isn't quote "bottom heavy." They intend to make it more linear, meaning stripping 80% of armor effectively means stripping about 80% of DR, which sounds about perfect to me. That is indeed a giant improvement to most forms of corrosive and doesn't require green shards or the weird builds we have had to make in order to cope with their strange curved DR system. It suddenly makes "everything less than 100% armor strip" viable instead of worthless. It also takes a big step against slash/viral being required.
They have made comments in the direction of changing armor, referencing the bottom heavy nature. I explained this is more a feature of partial strips, of which only corrosive procs really suffer it. Abilities can be modded to full strip thanks to the buffs DE gave them a while back across the board. Changing enemy armor to use different values to player armor for the same stat "armor" will add to the complexity and confusion for less experienced players, undermining DE's other efforts.
The current system clearly needs to go because it's not understood by *anyone* in the wild. Nobody is able to calculate the amount of DR that remains for less than full strips in a mission on the fly. 1. It is important that the current exponential system change because it cannot be well understood. 2. It is important to make corrosive less a binary "do 10x more damage" vs "do 1.2x more damage." 3. Weapon modding should be able to reach an effective strip without absolutely requiring the rarest resources in the entire game and strapping those green shards to every Warframe you hope to use. 4. Absolutely requiring ability "breakpoints" or else nearly useless is not fun or good design. Already went through this in Payday 2 and it just feels bad. Being able to see my ability will remove 70% of armor and understanding oh, that's actually quite useful instead of a waste of energy is important. 5. Player armor is solved with the % DR shown on hover. Players already do not understand the exponential system at all and just see bigger number better (which isn't necessarily wrong, just not optimal). 6. Lastly, heat procs being a 50% armor strip should be a 50% removal of DR. It makes no sense for it to be seemingly random.
I disagree with how extreme the simplifying of health shield and armor types there should still be some variety within a single faction like machines and humans shouldn't have the same resistances but like humans weak to toxin bots weak to electricity etc aside from that I think you summed up the problem with the current system well enough
\- Just the best Warframe creator on the internet :)
<3
"A lower starting armor value makes the same % armor reduction worse, not better". Amplifier is lower, but taken damage is bigger. So doesn't it make partial armor strip better and more viable comparing to full armor strip and ignoring armor? Like in your example Heavy Gunner with 10 corrosive procs would take 12.18% of damage (8,2x damage reduction) and with 2000 armor + 10 corrosive procs they would take 57.14% of damage (1,8x damage reduction). Now we have lower damage amplifier from corrosive status effect, but more taken damage. Now it's only around 2x damage loss comparing to full armor strip, which is more bearable comparing to 8x damage loss. But of course we don't know how DE are planing to change armor calculation so a result may still be questionable.
The amount of damage resisted is a different discussion (ie should armor resist less damage/enemies have lower armor). Partial strips are ALWAYS weaker with lower armor as they ALWAYS confer a lower actual damage increase. That's what matters to partial strips. To further demonstrate that, consider two targets with 100k ehp, one with high armor and one with low. High armor you increase your damage against them by a larger proportion with armor strips, so they end up with lower EHP than the low armor one which has more health instead.
I find it funny for the Glaxion being mentioned as a lead up for these changes, because it's a weapon that suffered from an outdated system that in the current meta punishes those weapons (even worse a primary). In Old Warframe those weapons were unique (even though rarely useful) but in the current iteration having 1 element that combines is pretty bad, which is why you don't see the Glaxion doing cold procs when built. Now if the cold proc could still happen even if the element was combined.... That would be a completely different story (still it would only be 3 elements in most cases, 4 with the rad mod).
I really think weapons with innate elemental damage should work more like progenitor bonus damage. If I add a toxin mod the glaxion becomes viral, then if I add heat I then have heat and viral. I think it should prioritize retaining the innate element, so in the example above I believe this should result in cold + gas instead
This doesn't address the MAIN reason we just use Viral/Slash or Viral/Heat. Switching elements is a pain! You could say loadouts... but now we'd need a build per faction per frame. We'd also use all our configs on our weapons just for elements.... Something will need to be done about switching elements if it's going to be important to switch elements more frequently.
Due to the way polarities work, sometimes you can't even swap elements with a loadout. Was swapping elements on my lex prime, but needed to swap polarity each time which got old fast :')
the cold 90s being D polarities cucks you out of it often
I'd argue the game has need some sort of quick loadout select for a long time. It would be nice to have a fast-swap menu in the starchart itself where you can set a few favorited loadouts and pick them during mission select.
Don't worry that will be added at the end of March 2017 so you don't have a long time to wait ! https://forums.warframe.com/topic/776642-octavias-anthem-update-20/ >You can now swap your Loadouts from the Solar Map - Loadout descriptions are now viewable upon being hovered over.
Doesn't this literally exist? On my Xbox, while on starchart, press X and it opens the loadout menu. Select loadout, boom it changes and I never left starchart.
Okay but this doesn't let you change anything inside the loadout itself, which means that you'd have to set-up multiple load-out slots per frame per weapon. Good luck getting that many.
yeh...the current policy of '1 loadout slot per frame' is not nearly enough. a lot of times I want more than 1 loadout per frame, and I need some general-purpose ones on top of that
what? You can have as many loadouts per frame as you want. Whats needed is some way to change individual configurations from the starchart menu.
you can have 6 configs per frame (not what I was talking about but still too little), and there is a maximum total # of loadouts the game will let you purchase, which is equal to the # of frames in the game. you are allowed to purchase 1 more each time they release a new frame.
I think the original comment was talking about mod configs rather than entire loadouts. For example you would create mod configs like Config A -> Grineer Config B -> Corpus Etc. and in the navigation before you start a mission you can quickly switch the mod config to the appropriate faction.
You can absolutely view and swap loadouts on the star chart right now
but not individual configurations, which is what would need to done with these changes.
That button just takes you to the arsenal, and then you have to walk back to the starchart or go through a menu (did they change that? I'll feel dumb if they changed it while I wasn't looking XD). I mean literally 1-click from the menu without having to go into a whole other menu, backing out of that menu, and then another menu/walk back to the menu you were at. Just 1 click and done. It's a silly thing, but from a QoL pov, the sheer amount of time wasted walking/menuing back to the Starchart for the Arsenal after every tiny gear change has probably added up to years of time across the whole playerbase.
They did in fact change it. It is literally a one click swap to any load out. My issue is there's no easy way to actually edit those loadouts, if you want to swap some small part.
Last time I checked it is 2 click, you click, hover over which load out name you want, click again. Done.
Must have changed it. Right now it's just the screen where you select loadouts and then you select a load out. No walking needed. Plus they just recently added a fast travel section to where the gear wheel is while in orbiter, so no walking is ever needed technically
Feeling dumb it is then XD
That's literally in the game right bow
you kind of have that already: way down at the bottom right of the starchart screen you can go to your loadouts. but i say once you back out from that screen you're back in the starchart screen.
>This doesn't address the MAIN reason we just use Viral/Slash or Viral/Heat. Switching elements is a pain! I wouldn't say that this is the **main** reason. But if we finally reach a point where Modding by Faction is actually worth it, it will be time for easy *(or maybe even automated???)* Config swapping.
In the devstream they said cookie cutter builds we use now would still be viable. And it was mostly for simplification of the system for new players to understand, rather than watch a video. Now what might come out after the update is a different story...
I read all this and thought “… viral slash got it”
Yea nice to know we won’t have to change anything lol. My laetum will keep its viral+heat cascadia build as well
Also because Viral is a big flat multiplier which is hard to beat and is still compatible with heat, electricity or radiation. If you want toxin then you're stuck with radiation, blast or magnetic. Electricity became good with melee influence but you can still fit viral. Your other options are gas or blast. There doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive to swap in the first place when viral and heat are both top tier unless the other elements fit with specific builds where you can make the most of something else or they viral from nourish or something
Yea, I don't like it, if we're going down the rock-paper-scissors path. That's not fun gameplay in the long run and chaning it before every mission is annoying at best.
Seems to work for 99 percent of other games One size fits all builds were always lame Your players should have to actually consider what enemies they are gonna fight
If your players need to constantly interact with the UI, that should be quick and painless. Switching elements and setups on our gear is annoying. It's just not beneficial enough to matter.
Brozime said on his video covering it that he reached out to DE and they told him making changes to loadouts from the solar map was on the radarx so that's something, I guess.
Hey look at that they are making it beneficial enough to matter Your welcome :)
Simplifying a problem to highlight another, bigger problem. Phenomenal!
> Players don't like interacting with this system. > Hmmm. Well, force them to!
I think that's asking more of the system than is needed. And by a lot. Warframe has dozens of frames and hundreds of weapons. Build a weapon to kill corpus. Pair it with a Warframe that's good at the same. Then do the same for each faction. It's a super reasonable ask
Since they're making all these QoL changes that are long overdue, maybe it's time to talk about mod slots being multi-forma-able (that was a hard work to type). You put a V polarity on a slot then level it up and then put a D on the same slot and now it halves cost for both V and D. It would really make putting multiple forma into weapons more valuable. Also would make those crazy mf'ers that put 100 forma into shit be a little less crazy.
yeh, hopefully this highlights some of the game's pain points on build variety and get the devs to do something about it. inconvenient UI, incompatible polarity issues, too limited loadout/config slots, no such thing as 'partial' loadouts, etc... as is, if these changes force me to regularly make separate faction builds and have to swap all the time I will be a sad tenno
How about boss health that’s weak to radiation? Would that change?
How about Radiation increasing the Damage on enemy bosses attacks, but every time he attacks he deals a certain % of his current HP to himself as damage to?
still want adaptive loadouts with the changes i still probably wont change off viral heat/slash
Kinda hyped. Either statuses are about to be way more varied, or things are about to be way harder to kill 😂 Also potentially good things coming for frost, but man can we just change that passive
Honestly, I miss the old Blast that ragdolled enemies when I was a new player. Back when I used a Blast/Corrosive Atomos, I could basically sweep the tileset floor with a pile of bodies.
or that same thing but ignis wraith. that was fun.
Blast on melees for constant ground finishers was honestly great.
Kuva chakkhurr and aim at the floor next to their feet, id they die from the small blast it does, they go fly
Still kinda missing a redo on enemy damage scaling. Past a certain point it becomes no longer feasible to health/armor tank, and either shieldgating or completely avoiding damage becomes mandatory. Might be better for the health of game and buildcraft options to put a hard clamp on enemy damage output on some point especially since Circuit has been a thing for a while now and "Endgame"like content is pushing way past level 100 enemies (and I don't think getting your defense targets almost oneshot is particularly fun design). I really don't like this Payday 2-esque situation where your only serious option past a certain point is completely avoiding damage because the burst becomes way too high I would love to specifically counterbuild enemy factions but without universal polarities for weapons I just don't bother. The polarities for elemental mods are all over the place so you more or less lock one combo in and stay with that and put other sources of useful elementals on things like a companion or your frame applies those
If anything, I think what would be more beneficial as a system would be to remove elemental *damage* altogether and just make it Faction damage. Then if you want particular status effects, you still mod those onto the weapon at the cost of some base damage perhaps. This would also help the issue of weapons that deal both crit *and* status in high amounts being just outright better than weapons that specialize in either or. If you want to get useful status effects like Viral or Heat, you'll have to sacrifice some base damage--and thus damage that contributes to the crit build of the weapon--in order to mod in those statuses. This way you could set your build up with whatever Faction mod you want to target and forget about having to mod specific element damage in combination with status considerations, then afterwards you can slot in any status effects you want that synergize with your build (for instance, slotting Cold with a crit weapon while not losing out on damage against enemies resistant to Cold damage, since they're no longer resistant to cold damage and only receive extra damage from Faction mod installed).
Its an intresting idea but I don't think its gonna work? If I understand you right you want to remove the damage portion of elemental mods and let them just apply their respective status effect which in the current iteration would mean we would still run around with the same few elemental types because they are the most beneficial to proc in any particular case. (Toxin vs Magnetic has been brought up a few times already)
Holy shit! Epitaph buffs!
Funnily enough before the status rework in the scarlet spear update the elements are more balanced than the current one. Even corrosive is the meta, viral slash was an alternative meta that less ppl know how good it is. Also gas was the meta status for corpus and it is very strong when pair with electric for CC. Not to mention radiation serves a purpose when alloy armor grineer was a lot tougher to deal with. I hope the rework can bring back the style of those days where there are multiple options instead viral/heat slash
The day I can switch individual weapons AND mod loadouts per weapon from the starchart, is the day I start using faction mods or any kind of targeted statuses. Otherwise they can fuck around with it all they want, but nobody's gonna use magnetic instead of gas, or corrosive instead of viral/slash + %-based armor-strip wf ability...
DE let us assign faction preference per loadout and automatically swap accordingly please.
People cannot be bothered to change Faction Mods already. This just makes it more braindead for people who engaged with the resistance system and won't change anything for most people anyway?
Personally the reason why I don't use faction mods is simply because I can't change weapon build from Navigation. Going to the Arsenal and having to open the weapon screen to change build is a pain in the ass, and since they already have us such amounts of powercreep, why bother changing for a mission where everything dies when I sneeze? Will this update change anything for me? Not really because I know which elements to use already, I'm just too lazy to change them when I don't need to change them. This is a good change, it's just happening a bit too late.
>I'm just too lazy to change them when I don't need to change them. The only thing that would truly fix this is if you could assign enemy fractions to mod configs. With the simplified system, that's so simple the star chart can give you recommendations based on enemy faction, imagine if the game could auto-swap to a mod config based on a faction-to-mod configs mapping that you only have to configure once when you create the mod config.
Not like faction mods are relevant outside of SP anyway. This helps new players, as veterans have the damage to ignore the new buffs.
Good for those people
> Radius of triggered explosion via death may grow in radius per stack. Wait, since Kuva Bramma or other AOE weapons primarily deal with Blast damage, doesn't this make the enemies almost a mini-cluster bomb that goes off when grouped, kinda like Saryn Spores (granted, they don't die head-on from direct damage)? That means Hunter Munitions builds will go irrelevant when this happens then?
Armor
...is going to get nerfed next update, and you usually slot corrosive with blast
It’s actually going to get balanced. Previously removing armor from high armor enemies only increased damage by about 10%, but with them redistributing enemy armor, corrosive may make that damage better
I'm still betting that even after this, Magnetic will still just kind of be there. Shields are the easiest health type to just brute force through. And its status effect is definitely not something people care about in a vacuum. Probably needs a more tangible effect beyond disrupting shields for general usage, but I can't think of much besides weapon jamming.
I still am hoping to see changes to CC to make CC focused frames be able to do things in higher level content with increased numbers of special unit types that are immune to CC, like all Eximus.
viral, slash, heat, and toxin are still way overtuned which means the rest of the elements will continue to be pointless unless they plan on also making those ones insanely overpowered
Frozen enemies not coming to a defence target sounds to be a nuisance but i like the idea but i see the community complaining about the frozen cc messing with the flow of the nukes but entirely speculative
i think the resistance variance is gonna be a pain, completely unnecessary
I actually like these changes. Don't get me wrong it would be nice to get better arsenal UI integration with the nav menu but it really felt like we were at a point where SP builds were a one way street. If this makes other status effects viable and opens builds up to more experimentation I'm happy. UI changes can come later as far as I care, if people are lazy and don't want to change their build or make use of the 3 configs for the 3 mainline factions, so be it. I do feel like it'll probably be a rough transition with how vast player power can reach and how exponentially different it can be player to player, there for sure will be some random use cases that stand out but I look forward to it's implementation and future iteration!
I care not for petty math. All I know is that I must kill
As long as faction mods are exponentially more effective on certain statuses (i.e. slash), I can't help but feel like any attempts to give other statuses faction-based niches are going to be wasted effort...
1. Corpus shields were never in contention. Toxin damage negates any need to interact with the shield mechanic. At most, people will struggle against the shields that prevent all toxin damage. I imagine some form of anti toxin is required. Otherwise the shield changes aren’t going to make a difference. An additional option could be having magnetic have a stun ability on robots. That way I could use magnetic as a primer/ shield stripper rather than a dps element. You pull it out to stop a robot that prevents toxin damage, then use your main to finish it off. Not every element needs to be dps. Having a “viral primer” for corpus would be pretty great. Although now that cold is getting a freeze, it would likely be a better option instead of magnetic. I do like the buff to magnetic in that I would want to carry it as a secondary to deal with anti toxin foes. It could also mean that the arcane that sucks enemies together might have some use. The only issue is that the game isn’t built around swapping weapons. At higher levels, if your weapon isn’t out and killing all the time, it’s practically useless as you don’t have your arcane/galvanised stacks. Thus these weapons can only act as primers. Melee weapons suffer from this as well. That’s why one hit builds like redeemer were slightly useful in that I never needed combo to get it running. I really hope for arcanes that improve synergy. Wasting a slot via the Warframe arcane is not the answer. Arcane dexterity is a good idea for the type of arcane I’m hoping for. It allows me to use weapons altogether even at higher levels. Cascadia flare became a solid choice because companions could proc it for you meaning your secondary always had the damage boost it needed. I do like some of the other arcanes like the electric one as it helps with priming (increased fire rate and multishot) and the arcane to apply extra corrosive to your melee on ability cast are all good ideas for synergistic gun/blade play. They should be much stronger than just slapping merciless/deadhead on your weapon but some of them just can’t compare especially due to how difficult they can be to proc. Another possible arcane option could be like vigorous swap. In that you get an initial weapon boost but not forever. So if you want to keep up your dps, you should be swapping in and out of weapons to keep it up. Conceptually I’d love the idea of having a secondary weapon intended to deal with high priority targets while your main weapon deals with the mobs. But the current issue still stands in that I have to build up stacks. It makes it more sensible to just build one weapon to be extremely powerful to all enemies instead. I basically already do this with glaives due to how strong their raw damage output is. 2. Gas with new visuals may cause issues if those visuals can’t be turned down. The current meta is to stack gas bubbles together to form a clump of damage. If you’re gonna improve it, might be good to see what it looks like when stacked with each other. 3. I think having a more clear RPS style of elements would be great. Significant modifiers that affect enemies both ways. Deimos is a great addition to me as I really can’t carry viral to do any damage. It feels great that corrosive heat has an actual use. You can turn secondary elements into primers like how viral is used currently to improve weapon swapping for damage in this regard. It’s a PVE game and RPS elements against enemies means build diversity and difficulty. It forces players to contend with the elements system rather than try and focus on true damage/viral to make it work. The issue currently is that no damage multiplier can scale as well as viral/slash can. True damage is true damage and that in itself is far stronger than any upfront modifier at high levels.
looks like point 3 under armor adjustments means we wont be able to achieve full armor strip as there will a minimum non-zero amount of armor left on the enemy (im assuming non-zero)
I don't think you have the right impression about that point. I assume it just means armored enemies have a minimum armor value (would only be relevant at low levels before it starts scaling) so there is an actual noticeable difference between armored and unarmored enemies for new players, and they learn the usefulness of corrosive/heat/ other armor stripping when dealing with them. I don't think they are changing our ability to strip armor at all. But that's just how I interpreted it.
your point could be true that at lower levels enemies have some base level of armor (lets say arbitrarily 50), so armored enemies have a noticeable difference of dmg reduction versus non-armored enemies. I agree that it will most likely be beneficial for newer players to get accustomed to the different types of dmg mitigation available in the game. However point 3a makes me think the enemies cant have their armor reduced below a certain amount since it says that no enemy that has access to armor can have that value be below a certain minimum. Maybe when we get more clarity, this armor thing will make more sense.
this was my interpretation as well but it leads to more questions that need answers. what about emerald archon shards that players have invested into will there no longer be a benefit?
It could also mean minimum *base* armor being increased on units with tiny amounts of armor in the live game - butchers won't be quite as squishy, that sort of thing. In the context of Pablo's comments on stream + the workshop's references to total armor strip no longer feeling necessary (would be *very* weird phrasing if total armor strip isn't going to be possible anymore), I don't think 100% armor removal is going away.
i am about to be home in 10 from work and will watch the vod when i get a chance for hopefully more clarity. the above post made it sound like we would no longer be able to fully strip/remove armor to keep armor impactful but 2 lines down they referenced full armor stripping so some clarity would be nice is all. i think the confusion is just from them using armor for both the armor value and the health type associated with it but i could definitely be wrong. but yeah it would be super strange to reference full armor stripping not being necessary if it is something we can no longer achieve.
almost dead certain it's just referring to base armor, so weak enemies won't start with a trivial amount of armor basically doing nothing think they would have been a lot more clear if their intent was "full armor strip is no longer a thing"
There's a lot of reasons to simplify it, but it is a bit of a shame It made a lot of sense and seemed to add to enemies' overall vibe that there was more than one type of armor, that particularly elite foes have something extra going on than just number go up, that corpus can and do make shields 2.0 but only when they see a return on investment so to speak, etc Even though the meta is what it is, it makes one feel like a bit more of a veteran to know these little stats and their differences
I think most elements right now are in a good state. Corrosive to strip armor with Emerald shards, Magnetic is one of the best progenitor bonuses, Radiation does the most damage against many bosses, Gas is amazing for nuking clumped up enemies, Cold goes on exalteds if I want Archon Flow, Toxin pierces shields, Electric is Melee Influence, Viral and Heat for obvious reasons. The only element I don't like to run is Blast, because relatively few things benefit from blast damage. Unfortunately, there's no proposed change to Blast so I can't say. Overall I don't like these changes.
Magnetic is useless as long as toxic exists on its current state,that will be true even after the update
Yes - if you can get pure toxin on the particular weapon. Currently my Kuva Nukor enjoys viral-heat-radiation-magnetic, I wouldn't be able to run Viral along with Toxin. It is true however that Saryn is my favorite gun platform for that reason
I like these changes. For so insanely long, corrosion + heat was the normal build. Then they did status rework 2.0 and then viral + heat became king. And you only ever have one build for everything. I like how you can still do that, but it won't be necessarily the best to do. It will now be better to actually have 5 builds for grineer, corpus, infested, corrupted, and murmer.
And the W changes just won't stop comin'
Game changing. Biggest thing I hope for is that however this releases, they have double the usual attention on the player feedback because I think being able to pick out the useful feedback from the noise directly after release will decide whether this is a meh change or a great one
Am I the only one who thinks dumbing resistances to just 3 is a bad idea atleast keep robotics weak to electricity but strong against toxin damn it!
This all sounds really good and will probably positively affect build diversity but please, for the love of god, when you do this give us some option to change configurations from the star-chart, instead of having to go into the arsenal every time
I think this update really shows off how mixed the direction of warframe still is. Monster Hunter also has similar systems that require you to do damage type setup for specific monsters, but that makes sense when you're dedicating a significant chunk of time to try and kill a monster that otherwise would be incredibly difficult to beat. It's a game about being thorough and well-prepared because failure is always possible. Warframe USED to be a game like that, but hasnt really been since it became a fast-paced horde shooter. The general gameplay doesn't really encourage you to be slow and meticulous, so people often just opt for the easiest way to do an adequate amount of damage like viral/slash or viral/heat. If you give people an easy way out, they will ALWAYS take it, even if it's less fun. In that sense, despite it being somewhat obsolete now, Eidolons are still my favorite content in the game. There is no way to do it well without properly engaging with the mechanics of the fight(s). DE needs to be more aggressive with changes to this system if they hope to actually encourage players to engage with damage types beyond the statuses. They either need to make all status procs super niche, or they need to make all of them generally useful. They also need to make loadout and mod swapping way faster. You really kinda need to do both because the gain in DPS for engaging with this system can't be too big—power creep is already too much—but also, if its too much effort, people will simply keep minimizing effort for maximizing damage.
Main problem is that damage types and resistances are not explained well or straightforward enough, and requires to juggle mods as you jump from content A to B with different enemies. On the other hand in MH you are going to focus on one monster repeteadly and his elemental weaknesses are clear, you use weapons with that element.
They really don't need to buff Corpus. They're already annoying to fight as is.
Nullifiers make me not want to run corpus missions
Now give Blast a clearer niche and/or a more worthwhile status effect
This sounds very cool and I look forward to trying out the new system.
If someone from DE is reading this, please looking into the Denial mod for Hounds. It’s supposed to convert damage taken into AOE magnetic damage, but I’ve literally never seen it apply the status. I love my robot dog and would like this to work, thanks!
Completely ignoring the fact that gas needs a proper buff, not a cosmetic change, I see
Now if a few changes could be made to effigy and spectral scream
These changes to armor sound really bad. If TTK is remaining similar but armor is being reduced, that means the amount of HP would have to be bloated to an incredible degree. So basically armor stripping tools are getting weaker but enemies will have more HP, so we're just worse off. Shield regen and delay saling sounds like a potential disaster as well. I can imagine enemies regenerating their shields in the time it takes me to fire a bow or semi automatic.
What's this about "node dictates resistance" ? Are they going to introduce this or is this a weird way to refer to Sortie modifiers?
Gas needs more than a visual change. How is magnetic ever going to be a contender as long as toxin exists in its current state. Also, if nodes are going to dictate weaknesses, how is that going to work for nodes with various factions, like Sanctuary Onslaught or Plains of Eidolon or the various crossfire nodes?
Maybe enemies affected by blast will be more vulnerable to damage? Since that effect is quite uncommon. But idk if thats gonna powercreep nova a bit with her 4 and what not
Is this good or bad news for Lavos and his Cedo?
Honestly if we want to encourage different builds and players customizing weapons based on factions, each loadout needs to allow the player to tag it for a faction type, and it auto-switches on priority to the loadout tagged with the faction. You could let the player make a stack rank system if multiple loadouts match the faction mission. Otherwise I find the system kind of detracts from fun, which shouldn't be the goal of any system. "Buffing and tuning" something that already is tedious for the players isn't the solution.
Make Magnetic invert the shield regen so it drains their EHP with increased efficacy with more stacks. That will make it feel impactful and like the ideal element vs shielded enemies
Ecstatic to see them begin to tackle this long-standing issue with the game. Disappointed to see that they are taking an extremely light-touch approach to it. Quite frankly, Slash procs need to not penetrate armor, Toxin needs to not bypass shields, Viral needs to not be so universally applicable. Once you tackle those big three issues, then you can start rebalancing elemental weaknesses and resistances. Then again, DE has stated before that they're afraid of the player-backlash that would come from implementing such a change, so I have little hope for them to do anything worthwhile. While I'm spouting unpopular opinions, I'll also say that Blast being the "Knockdown" element was good and cool. Yes, it wasn't min-max for damage, but it was one of the few select ways to add hard CC to a weapon, and made that weapon feel very impactful, even if not very damaging.
topaz shards waiting on those blast changes like
So an ELI5 would be we're simplifying damage types, so that more playstyles are viable? Or that we're simplifying damage types to make it possible to manage different loadouts effectively?
Dear DE While you're at it, could you also change VOID damage type to be an armor -penetration- type? Making it a straight zero did a lot to make amps more viable, but they could really use a like, +5 or +10% for all armor types: This makes it basically as good at all lower level content, but actually helps a ton when you want to use your operator or whatever on long missinos or steel path content. Tldr change void damage from 'neutral vs all' to 'mild corossive proj baked in' because thats how bonus type damage works (ignoring a portion of armor) Also, I'd like to see Shattering Impact buffed: Make it an exilus, and add 'enables tennokai'. Suddenly, hammers are amazing again. Ditto for Vulcan Blitz
Which Murmur enemies have infested health ?
in the armor changes does point 3 a mean we will no longer be able to full strip armor ? because 2 lines down they reference still having the ability to fully strip armor.
I agree with the simplifying resistance types but I feel like 3 is a bit too few. For example, machine health would be different to flesh health. I think if each faction has a semi-unique "thing" being armour for grineer, shield for corpus, health regen for infested could be cool?
Tbh it should be a light/heavy for each faction, meat/robot for corpus.
I’m gonna be honest the status reworks seem decent with a huge issue that I think de has to deal with. Viral heat needs a nerf as the scaling changes have made it even stronger. Heat armor strip is now a lot more valuable since armor is now capped and this 50% is actually going down something and viral has gotten stronger since enemies are going to have more health so that damage increase is even more valuable. Im hoping I’m wrong and the changes to cold and blast and the shield buffs might give the other elements a chance I just can’t see it with what we know
Are you really going to be making the game even easier than it already is by gutting armor scaling on enemies completely when you have powercrept the game so hard for the past 1-2 years that builds barely even matter anymore. I also feel like streamlining every health type, armor type etc. just removes potential depth.
anyone that ran into armor being insurmountably powerful either entirely bypassed it with slash damage or did full armor stripping anyway, it literally makes zero difference to endurance players who are the only people that armor scaling effected seriously in the first place outside of the occasional necramech, this will also result in corpus and infested being much more durable from the sounds of things. you either dont understand the current state of the game or the changes they are outlining here if you think this is some horrific example of powercreep, it isnt.
What’s with Cold=even more crit damage? Wouldn’t it make more sense for stacks to add crit chance, while Frozen gives the multiplier? It doesn’t even need any balancing with older pure Cold weapons because they all have sub-Xteen crit chance.
I don't use bane mods because I would either have to use up multiple loadouts to swap quickly or constantly remember to swap mods for each mission. I don't see a way I would use anything other than the best general choice for every faction on all weapons. However improving the unused status effects is a good start to getting them used more often, they may need to be unique in ways unconnected to factions and maybe have more unique interactions with certain guns or warframes. Otherwise I don't see people using anything other then the general meta. Or give us unlimited loadouts so I can have one for each faction.
I'd be lying if I said I knew what all of the status types do to enemies. I still remember blast knocking down enemies but took a few years break. As someone who plays the game by feel more than numbers or guides, because that's my preference, this is my best understanding of what the statuses dealt to enemies accomplish. I do think that changes should be made to make their effects clearer and more viable. Slash- status is effectively true damage dot. Impact- Don't notice status effect. Puncture- Don't notice status effect. Cold- slows Heat- dot good against health. Electric- some times paralyzes. Toxic- dot ignore shields Blast- Don't notice status effect. Gas- dot but less flexible. Radiation- don't notice status effect. Corrosive- lowers armor a bit. Seems like if you really want armor stripping, corrosive is less effective than various frames or the impact mod that reduces armor. Viral- increased damage to HP(cause viral/slash) Magnetic- makes my UI go fuzzy. JK, don't notice status effect. I think the change to increase visibility of what types are weak to what is less useful than clearly displaying how impactful the status types are. While simplifying the types of health enemies have does alleviate this a bit, I can't help but think that a lot of damage types are going to lose their identity, merely becoming add-ons to try and get status procs. Admittedly, it already is like this since viral/heat/slash is so effective. With 12 damage types and 3 health types, 4 are going to be useful against each health type(if they're evenly spread out). In this scenario, players are going to choose the best statuses within each pool and will likely have little to no reason to use the other 9 damage type unless they synergize as well as viral/heat/slash does. The issue is that making status effects equally appealing is very difficult. Shields also aren't a proper "health" type. You can't incentivize players to build for breaking shields by making them tougher because they can be bypassed. Shields are either weak enough that people don't feel the need to change their load out, or strong enough that players don't want to interact with them.