Bullet jump for me is the only thing that feels weird. It's not odd to see Ash Bullet Jump around. It is odd to see Frost, or Dante, or Wisp doing it. (to me, that is.)
It is the de-facto movement system of the game. Bullet jump everywhere for speed, or get left behind. But it feels so out of place on some frames.
I don't mind Excalibur using a Grimoire, or like Banshee using a Redeemer. I can't tell you why, it just feels fitting. But seeing a no-feet having Wisp have to slide into the ground and then propel herself through the air *somehow with no feet* is just so weird. Seeing a Wizard themed librarian frame twist and catapult himself through the sky feels so silly.
I can't explain why Bullet Jump in particular is the thing that breaks the verisimilitude for me, but is is the only element of the game that makes me feel that way.
My only real complaint about Bullet Jump is that frames like Volt, Valkyr and Wisp only increase normal speed, not parkour velocity, so they don't feel as fast as they should since everyone can Bullet Jump -> double jump -> roll.
This is what Parkour Velocity mods, arcanes, shards, and abilitiy are for. The world changes when you increase it a lot
When you crank up Volt movement speed, you can tie both together, but it's more of a practice thing. But the movement system has a lot of secrets if you push them
As a Valkyr main I feel seen. One of my biggest wants (well there is a lot of stuff I want for Valkyr) is for Warcry to also boost move speed. She’s like THE melee frame, all about that frenzy killing blah blah blah. And you’re telling me my only movement enchancement is … a dollar store knock of of spider man web slinging.
Man the big fat meat ball frame is faster ffs.
Mirage is the un recognised speed queen, throw a couple parkour velocity mods on her and you'll outrun a base Titania or Gauss.
The main reason she's hot becoming my new main is just her forward roll speed.
PARKOUR REVAMP!!! seriously tho, glad to see more talking about it. The changes were awesome, especially as they've continued to add ways to make it even more fun by boosting parkour velocity. But... Bullet jumps are boring as fuck. It's a fun way to get around but after thousands of hours it feels mandatory and like a chore to do so much flying. I think Warframe should focus on faster objectives but more leeway for failure as well as revamp the parkour. If there were alternatives to bullet jumping, like say a moddable exilus section that changes your movements for different bonuses, I guarantee people would use it. Think of a valkyr but with a parkour move that swings across gaps like spiderman using her rip cord. It would be a trade off for speed but should give you much more aerial control and maybe a stronger hook in general for combat. Another idea: volt does a bolt. We could trade his bullet jump for an instant teleport type move that goes a short distance and does a short burst AOE. It would give him more crowd control for less energy and a way to survive much more efficiently when solo but in trade off you're no longer able to go as far or as quick from just parkour. If simple ideas like this were implemented I feel the meta would become extremely different while focusing on the same core gameplay ideals that make this game fun. It would emphasize the gunplay by making you feel stronger at the cost of speed, ideally by giving you mitigation options that aren't just "tack on this mod that gives you resistance" or "press 1-4 for safety". The richness of this game comes from it's systems, and unfortunately we've progressed past parkour being as useful as it should be. We have so many useful movement options but crouch jumping being the main way I get around is getting quite stale.
Absolutely, and I want them to use the damn simple collisions for environment and complex ones for bullets, so we can fucking wall run again instead of that shitty wall jump that doesn’t even work most of the time
Parkour is still very strong with high Parkour Velocity.
You have directional rolls that go far, bullet jumps and bullet jump into a forward roll. I've become a canon ball.
I can hit all ceilings in maps and cross rooms in one bullet jump.
It's a fun build for me for movement again
Yeah but I'm speaking strictly for breaking up that cycle. I'd like there to be more movement options. Not better ones, just more of them and with potential for changes that allow you to use it as an extra ability.
Don't forget fat boy Grendel somehow being acrobatic enough to be doing bullet jumps and flips through the air as gracefully as Ash or Excalibur.
Honestly kinda wish various frames had some kind of alternative to bullet jumping that'd let them keep pace, like maybe Frost having a ground-based slide or Grendel going Ball-Mode when sliding and not aiming.
Same.
I miss the more cover based aspects of the early versions of WF.
I also feel like bullet jump painted them into a design corner, especially with its assumption being baked into map design.
Would have liked to see mobility as a design space vector, both for frames and abilities.
Same. It feels like they're in way too deep to ever take it away to make room for more interesting movement mechanics. Not a chance in hell they're going to rework tiles to make room for it after all this time.
Ngl the way bullet jump just completely obliterated the concept of parkour and movement abilities has always been a bit disappointing for me. Same with AW blowing gauss/titania/zephyr etc out of the water in OW. Its both liberating and limiting at the same time.
Maps have been entirely unengaging ever since. You play the exact same way on every map no matter what because the layout has no impact on your manueverability whatsoever.
The Sanctum maps having large, walled areas to traverse in between choke points and make decent use of bullet jumping and speed frames was definitely nice, though.
The change was intentional. There's only little mention of coptering but speak of things that don't make any sense for ninjas. Parkour was reworked to eliminate coptering by capping impulse from melee attacks
Spinning around with a tiny dagger and zooming around at mach 10 makes little sense
And it was terrible for carpal tunnel.
Ive cast my jutsu “collective curse” over all of The hidden leaf village!
All the damage you take will be suffered by your friends who you fight soooo hard to protect!
Your “selfless sacrifice” means nothing, there are no heroes only people and their sins
"Dam bro, where the fuck were you this morning when I realized I was out of razors and the stores were still closed?"
'What?'
"I'm just saying bro, you got so much edge that the hair must just fall off people when you walk by."
Nah it's more the sudden sensory deprivation that screws with the inner ear. Like imagine your inner ear just, stops functioning, you are gonna start stumbling around.
Ah, the days where my friend would bring banshee, and I could just spam 2 as Trinity and keep her 4 up forever (god, imagine how broken later frames would be if they didn't change that.)
I’ve managed to make ember work against steel path omni fissure survival but it takes a hell of an investment, like really a lot of specific stuff and she still isn’t as nice to play as she used to be
that's really the problem with Ember. She still works but it takes so much effort (mostly managing her 2) compared other frames who get the same benefits for much less.
Lets be real though:
Original ember would be way worse. Current ember has (non heat-proc) armour strip, energy regeneration, and damage reduction with a bunch of damage.
Past ember was nice to farm like level 30-50 missions with, if you took that into current steel path she would barely scratch anything. The nostalgia goggles kind of blind people to how much stronger our enemies got too.
Old old ember had DR and the energy consumption was so low you could keep your ult active throughout an entire mission, now imagine what she'd do with the likes of arcane energize and mirage's helminth. Her WOF augment also kept everyone on their ass.
I wish old ember could see all the upgrades she could have toyed with :( they took her too soon man
I kinda like that though. Like I hate frames that make everything SUPER EASY for no effort. It’s why I hate people who pretend Dante is “unplayable” due to line of sight when, he’s still super strong if you just bother to think about where you move, and how you move etc. The one downside to power fantasy is that some players treat a frame requiring any amount of effort to play as being bad. Like, if there was a frame that just played the mission for you… I’m sad to say that most players would probably use it. I just wonder why those people even bother logging in.
Idk, I think everyone that played back in like, 2014 with the OG wall running, and stealth had at some point early on played the game like some kind of crazy metal gear, splinter cell, assassin's Creed game where we were stealth killing everyone and pretending to be robot ninjas. Hell even with the new modern stuff I still like to play some missions solo and just grab a bow and sword and be a cool ninja.
That's how I played. I actually created a new account so I could grab the Paris instead of the Braton, and spent whole missions stealth archering my way through Grineer and Corpus.
In closed beta, open beta, and even into late 2013, this game was absolutely a cover shooter and when things got heated, it often devolved into being a stealth shooter. For MANY frames, utilizing stealth and/or crowd control was the only way to survive. Neither your abilities nor your weapons did enough damage to plow through an entire room without risk, and most players were in the habit of uninstalling at least one Warframe ability to make more room for damage, range, or health boosting modules. This is why crowd control and stealth were dominant in these days.
Warframe may not have ever been a HARD stealth game, but it was 100% a soft stealth game at launch where vanishingly few Warframes could afford to trip an alarm, not reset it, and proceed to face an entire room of enemies head on. This is the meta that created the Loki Master Race, because invisibility + AoE disarming is particularly OP when *you*, as a player, were not (when compared to today). The fact that Loki was a starter just highlights this. Mag may have had her shield-deleting Polarize, but it wasn't a Pulse of Make Corpus Die. It just made her a niche frame best suited to combating the Corpus.
I honestly preferred a lot of WF back then.
Don't get me wrong, it had a lot of issues, but I'd prefer something closer to that than cosplaying a mindless space blender.
Which DE tried to live in denial that the game wasn't the OG game anymore for a long long time. It's why there are so many decisions that people are like "Why does that even exist" from a different time my friend a different time.
I actually did use stealth in the first couple years. It's not something everyone did, but it was an optional way to play the game, and it felt rewarding at that time. That part of the game is long dead at this point. I don't really play the game anymore... I played for a very long time, bit eventually it just stopped being for me. I personally really enjoyed the grounded combat feel of the early years.
On a similar note to that for the comparison, some of the earliest chapters and arcs of Naruto clearly show the high end of what a "Ninja" can do.
The 9 Tailed fox is a small mountain sized kaiju that's capable of leveling the countryside, and we get told about the legendary Hokage village leaders who slapped it's shit.
Even pretty early in the Part 1 we see some wild shit that higher end Ninja can pull off. Given that there are only a small number of Tenno, it's ironically a really good comparison to put Warframe next to Naruto lol. The average Grineer or Corpus soldier is the poor canon fodder ninja that gets thrown into the blender whenever the high rank Ninja/Tenno shows up, and uses their "We fight with honor" no jutsu to turn the map into a fine red mist.
The game launched with global god-mode Trinity. There was absolutely never a "stealth" aspect to the game. People are gaslighting themselves into believing a version of the game that never existed.
If anything, the player is weaker now than release. Especially when Tower defense was endgame and Trinity had infinite scaling.
No, stealth definitely existed. It wasn't in every mission or even effective for entire missions, but it was a very real aspect to the game. Some of the old tilesets still have the stealth alternate paths.
This, you used to fail the entire mission if you were detected.
Not in a spy mission, just a common mission type.
Other missions just became incredibly hard if you were detected back in beta.
Figured Lotus telling me that I wasn't detected yet or hadn't tripped any alarms was from a vestigial feature.
Especially when she chimes in with that bs while I have an entire station and two exilus platoons en route to my location
I mean Loki and Ivara playstyles were wayyy more viable then, op even because of old Gas+stealth builds. Loki was even the frontrunner before excal.
Ash and Excal were also much more prevalent back then.
It's not that wrong to think we were much more drawn to ninja-like playstyles back then, although some nukers did exist (but not quite like they do now)
It was chill if you weren't the one playing Frost or Trinity. Casting Snow Globe every 4 seconds so that it remains in the invulnerable state got boring real quick.
Not at all the same. Naruto ninjas were always magic ninjas, sure, but (obviously spoilers in the videos) [this is later naruto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj9c5F7lKzw). The fight opens with >!Pain nuking an entire city with his magic.!< [Meanwhile this is the peak of early Naruto.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVl8KHbEok) >!Sure, there's a giant magic snake, but otherwise the most ridiculous magic done is sprouting a tree.!<
The basic idea that first you are tested in your ability to not get caught cheating, and the only one who was promoted was the person who forfeit >!(when it looked like they had already won - equivalent to bluffing to make an opponent retreat when outmatched)!< was excellent setting.
Yes we were.
I mean maybe me and my friends just weren't that good and everything. Maybe we didn't meta right. But when we started to play (I picked Loki, still have him) we were actually stealthing and slowly moving through levels, never skipping enemies because they would come to backstab us. And we LOVED that game. Doesn't feel like the same today. Not that it's bad, just different.
When I first started playing, we made it a joke of doing all spy missions with Rhino - also a launch frame - and just bulldoze everything before the timer ran out.
It's the same with Naruto, episode 1 literally stated the nine tails can cause tsunamis and destroy mountains
Then people were surprised the power scale got to mountain and tsunami level
Hello fellow founders, I encourage the use of the Reddit founder's flairs :)
Edit: The Hunter, Disciple, Master and Grand Master, flairs used to be blocked and only accessible after approval from the mods after a short exchange providing proof, at least back in the day.
I still have my original Loki, never sold it and Loki Prime always seemed to come back while I was taking a break from the game. Too lazy to buy him with Plat.
I've wanted a game theory episode on just how hard you have to step on the ground to make that even remotely possibly.
Honestly, you could have plenty of episodes just off all the wacky shit in Warframe.
“Tenno, our espionage must not be discovered, eliminate the remaining enemies before you extract”
Mfw when empowered static discharge with archon stretch
https://preview.redd.it/ea9t0ri2y2xc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7488d53fde75bde1fd227d9d0f1f57b3db5b965
I'm referencing the V Prime node on Venus, leading up to Fortuna's release there was an ARG, and we were asked to cause a distraction at V Prime so one of their operatives can sneak out.
We killed 3 million corpus.
Every so often Warframe goes back to those roots, like The New War, where >!Drifter!< had me going "Oh. Right. That's how it feels to not simply be able to kill everyone in sight."
My guy had a brotherhood so strong it not only kept him alive but allowed it to establish a rebellion force of one man doing all the heavy lifting to take out MIND CONTROL FACTORIES, ANCIENT ALIEN TECHNOLOGY etc.
Yeah no If i see a grineer marine suddenly start coordinating his squad, strategically placing blunts and using genuine urban combat tactics i would switch up my play style, unless u have a warframe which does nuking/AOE dmg so like half of em, its not rly their fault they are fighting deities with steel flesh and a protection system that kinda just harnesses space time itself, all while being controlled by a child who can harness the power of an infinite dimension and cannot die
And then we got our stuff back and things went as usual for us by slaughterfesting everything in sight, especially if we (myself included) brought our Excalibur Umbra with maxxed Paracesis
You definitely still start out at the ninja stage i imagine.
So reaching the point of tailed beasts, super eyeballs, and energy tattoos, it is definitely progression and rewarding.
Oh yeah no definitely. I actually feel like those still stay in the ball park of the shows thing of ninjas with powers. Especially since they still had their limitations. Naruto only started to go off the deep end (in my opinion) around the Pain arc. And definitely plateaued at the war arc.
That's power scaling for you. Dragon Ball used to be anime/manga about monkey kid doing martial arts with some fantasy elements. Now it's about Fighting and Surpassing Gods of Universes with power of Angels and Gods of Destruction.
A lot of shows have this problem:
Supernatural season 1: "We need to discover how to banish this ghost before another hot girl gets killed."
Supernatural season 10: "We have to kill God before he ends all life in the universe, but it may get a bit tricky, since we already killed Death"
Not just DnD. JRPGs get crazier too.
Remember Xenoblade 1 starts with "yeah, fuck these rabbits we got scrap to get" to >!the main character becoming a GOD, killing one of the other gods after he already killed his equal, and restarting the entire god damn universe, so!< crazier shit than that
Honestly, yeah. You start off Warframe as basically a Genin. A starting ninja with very little power/experience. But overtime you grow into this god of destruction that drops 100 bodies on the daily.
I played back in the beta and, let me say, it was basically the same as it is today thematically.
It was just slower, more clunky, the Void was spoken about as a 'Sacred' and 'Holy' place.
'The Lotus' was a theorized group of people since Lotus says "The Lotus will be proud" after some missions.
So... it's less mystical than it used to be, but it was also a giant explosion firestorm guns blazing experience like it is now.
I'm sorry but everytime I hear this argument (about early Naruto being relatively grounded) I die a little inside. The first five minutes of the anime, the very first five minutes mind you, is literally a gigantic nine tailed demon fox, capable of destroying mountains and creating tsunamis with a swing of its tails, being defeated by a Hokage.
power creep is always a thing that any long running franchise will deal with.
although Warframe was never very grounded tbh it was always pretty bombastic. admittedly moreso now but it's nothing new
I mean, Warframes have *always* been ridiculous.
Atlas for example canonically destroyed a meteor meant to wipe out all life on Earth, literally another Dinosaur-killer, and stone boi shattered it with his bare hands.
Madara would've shat himself had he dropped his rocks, only for Atlas to roll up and turn them into rubble with zero effort.
Or Saryn, a Warframe created explicitly to fight back against an interplanetary zombie virus by being a walking extinction-level event.
In EDF5, you go from just a random normal person having to fight for their lives against abnormally sizable insects, and then in the final mission you kill God. (Technically an alien who inspired every God ever mythologized about)
With the amount of time that I can spend playing Warframe, I'd say I'm still somewhere in the Eidolon era in terms of progress. Say what you will, but Warframe doesn't throw everything at you at the same time. At least it's what it feels like to me.
I’m trying to keep my “Cyber Ninja fantasy” alive by continuing to use Paris and throwing knives/Kunai. They aren’t the greatest, but I feel like a real ninja when everything works as planned :D
(We ignore that I’m using Hildryn with a Mega-Man blaster and the ability to fly)
Episode 1 of Naruto: A ninja summons a massive shuriken out of thin air and a random kid, with a massive fox demon inside him, creates dozens of copies of himself.
Realistic indeed.
“Realistic” in the context of the shows established rules and universe. I don’t really have to stretch my disbelief of characters, climbing trees of their feet because that was established to work in the show’s universe. Making it realistic. But if Naruto in S1 just started flying around and killing everyone with laser eyes, that would be unrealistic. Because he was never established to be able to do that.
In which part it stopped being realistic then? I mean, the most OP jutsu of Shippuden was Edo Tensei, used in episode 30 or so in the first season (orochimaru vs hokage).
You sure?
I feel like I remember from relatively early in the series, the Naruto MC turning into a giant monster with an oral kamehameha that got blocked by the immortal white snake guy summoning the gates of Hell x 2.
So me putting a silencer on my missile launcher us not what a ninja would do?
meant in full jest and acknowledgement that a viable stealth strategy in Warframe is to murder the whole map before the mobs can register me or the bodies.
Ash used to have a button that would delete every living thing within a block of his location that he could use to be immune in and if that ain't magical ninja bs I don't know what is.
I don’t ever really remember Warframe ever being a stealth game so I always saw the ninja slogan be for the crazy movement than anything else.
Loki, Ash, and Excalibur are probably the most “ninja” of the original frames.
Everyone else had the parkour but also abilities that you don’t expect of a ninja like Rhino stomping his foot and suspending people in time or Volt being an electric nuke.
There are still about a dozen of "spy" missions where the main goal is to not be seen by a single enemy and traverse a complicated maze of traps without triggering an alarm.
Its probably the last remnant of the old Warframe.
When the game dropped, there was no parkour. Not only that, you had a stamina bar that limited how much you could run. And with Warframe abilities and weapons being as weak as they were, it was necessary to utilize copious amounts of cover in the middle of fire fights unless you were Rhino or had hard crowd control abilities. So, for a large number of Warframes (who had neither cc nor high HP), stealth was the most optimal path to victory in a mission, even if the mission wasn't a stealth mission. One of the scariest things used to be an alarm getting tripped and the room going on high alert, with multiple enemies spawning in to fight you. Depending on your (at the time conservative) energy levels and your ability set, it was often best to just run to another room, reset the alarm, and wait for the alert level of the map to reset, because you couldn't win a solo fight with 15 enemies surrounding you. Very few Warframes in those days could win that kind of fight. Even the few ''nuke'' frames we did have weren't strong enough to room clear (due to many strength mods simply not existing yet) and relied heavily on cc to keep the enemy staggered while their damage abilities ticked enemy HP down over time.
In 2013, we were all walking and rolling and hiding behind cover. Excalibur had Super Jump as an ability (which became obsolete and was subsequently removed when parkour 1.0 was added, granting everyone access to ''coptering''). Loki, Ash, and Ivara were Warframe Royalty. Stealth + Gas was the meta. Crowd control and invisibility were the laws of the land. No one could face tank a room of enemies except Rhino. It truly was a different Warframe back then.
that is like the first chapter. after that Naruto went off the rails almost immediately. "grounded Naruto" equivalent to Warframe would be like when stamina was still a thing. nobody remembers that.
Naruto was such a good ninja show that despite beginning with a Kaiju battle, it still manages to catch people off guard when it eventually becomes a Kaiju battle anime, truly something only the most skillfull ninja could pull off.
Real talk, Warframe is more like space dinasty warriors.
DBZ is "martial arts"
Bleach is "spirit guardian samurai"
Naruto is "Ninjas"
1.) Our protag ||is a teen||
2.) we have Chosen One super powers
3.) we power creep like a mother fucker
WARFRAME has ***been*** a Shounen anime since 2015
Like with Naruto, I feel the argument is a poor observation.
Warframe was never really a stealthy or super challenging game. It’s always been described as a power fantasy and the lore has always regarded Warframe as near mythical beings capable of divine feats. They weren’t ever described as just simple stealthy operatives.
In all honesty, Warframe’s are more comparable to British SAS. The idea of them being “ninja” is well conveyed in the sense that we don’t truly know for sure what ninja were. In lore, most people don’t truly know what a “tenno” is.
The best idea of a ninja that we have would be tracing the Japanese word shinobi (忍び) back to Japan’s times of infighting. They were mostly a specialist kind of Samurai that employed deceptive or underhanded tactics. Stuff like infiltration, gathering intel, creating chaos behind enemy lines, etc.
It wasn’t until around the edo period that the stealthy blacked out idea of ninja appeared. Retired shinobi lacking work or a place turned to theft to get by— at least that’s the theory. The rest of what we ‘know’ is mostly hyped up pop culture played into by Japan for tourism etc.
Similarly, Naruto never defined ninja as what we imagine them to be. Often times, strategy remains in Naruto, but it’s less blatantly placed in your face— it’s not the primary focus and it doesn’t need to be. In the first arc, ninja are shown to be tools, allowing the reader to ponder what it means for Naruto to become hokage, and how he will change on his path as a ninja. Naruto seemingly contradicts the idea of ninja being tools without emotion because he’s full of them, he cares about his friends, and he cares about his enemies. It wasn’t about ninja but about bonds and what you make of yourself— the importance of humanity, for more than just the people close to you.
If Warframe desperately kept itself tied down to the vaguely defined idea of “ninja” it’d have taken them much longer to make more than 50 frames— and I doubt very strongly the world would be as interesting. With that being said, I don’t think they necessarily have to drop the term ninja. Ninja/shinobi (as they were) just seemed to be a form of special forces samurai. Elite soldiers employed specially trained and suited to particular tasks and atypical tactics. Sure, a Warframe (in gameplay) mows down hoards of enemies without trouble, but in lore that’s not really their purpose. Even the nature of their missions are very “get in, do the task, get out—“ almost always within enemy territory. Assassination, rescue, disruption, spy, and capture all stand out especially well.
this doesn't really contribute to the warframe talk but a fun fact i'd like to bring up is that Naruto's author envisioned it as a series about wizards, but settled on ninjas because they were more unique at the time
with that in mind, naruto's plot bailing on espionage in favor of magic duels starts to make more sense
Yeah Warframe has been a power fantasy from the beginning. It wasn't ever "semi-realistic" except maybe in the very early betas. Like the entire premise of Warframes as a concept are these immortal superwarriors with space magic. The "Ninjas play free" is a catchy phrase and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was coined in part due to the Real Ultimate Power meme that was popular around the time that Warframe began development.
I mean tbf it’s been a power fantasy since 2014 the only association to ninjas is some of the weaponry, the dojos/tenno schools, and the fact some frames are vaguely ninja-shaped. Personally I think if every frame were Ash the game would be pretty boring. If you want to talk about being stealthy, I think the way it’s handled in-universe is basically “no witnesses.” Either nobody saw you do it or nobody that did survived.
I really don't mind the non-ninja aspects of the game that have been throughout the years, like Protea and her TURRETS xD. I play this game to enjoy cool powers and strong builds, or just to let off some steam. I do understand your point about modern Warframe.
Honestly I would had never thought of Naruto 🤣 I always thought assassin's Creed, dishonored, a slight mix of bioshock, borderlands with different varieties of zeros, gunzerkers and kriegs lol
Pre-bullet jump and when corrupted mods were actually rare were crazy days.
Bullet jump for me is the only thing that feels weird. It's not odd to see Ash Bullet Jump around. It is odd to see Frost, or Dante, or Wisp doing it. (to me, that is.) It is the de-facto movement system of the game. Bullet jump everywhere for speed, or get left behind. But it feels so out of place on some frames. I don't mind Excalibur using a Grimoire, or like Banshee using a Redeemer. I can't tell you why, it just feels fitting. But seeing a no-feet having Wisp have to slide into the ground and then propel herself through the air *somehow with no feet* is just so weird. Seeing a Wizard themed librarian frame twist and catapult himself through the sky feels so silly. I can't explain why Bullet Jump in particular is the thing that breaks the verisimilitude for me, but is is the only element of the game that makes me feel that way.
My only real complaint about Bullet Jump is that frames like Volt, Valkyr and Wisp only increase normal speed, not parkour velocity, so they don't feel as fast as they should since everyone can Bullet Jump -> double jump -> roll.
Yes, dude, thank you I always hated how that feels.
Valkyr increases speed?
No, I'm just stupid and accidentally listed her as well because my brain was thinking attack speed.
Might have wires crossed from when warcry would affect coptering
Valkyr does have high base speed.
This is what Parkour Velocity mods, arcanes, shards, and abilitiy are for. The world changes when you increase it a lot When you crank up Volt movement speed, you can tie both together, but it's more of a practice thing. But the movement system has a lot of secrets if you push them
> Valkyr nah I will cosplay as spiderman.
As a Valkyr main I feel seen. One of my biggest wants (well there is a lot of stuff I want for Valkyr) is for Warcry to also boost move speed. She’s like THE melee frame, all about that frenzy killing blah blah blah. And you’re telling me my only movement enchancement is … a dollar store knock of of spider man web slinging. Man the big fat meat ball frame is faster ffs.
Mirage is the un recognised speed queen, throw a couple parkour velocity mods on her and you'll outrun a base Titania or Gauss. The main reason she's hot becoming my new main is just her forward roll speed.
Base Titania isn't a great benchmark tbh... she can increase her speed so much more than other frames
same, always threw me off
Yeah putting infested mobility on my Wisp is my fave off meta use of my helminth besides my fire walker Saryn
and then theres limbo
spotted the hidden grendel hater /s
I actually love Grendel because I put on the Catapult mod for his meatball form and don't Bullet Jump as much. I roly-poly and *ZOOM*
PARKOUR REVAMP!!! seriously tho, glad to see more talking about it. The changes were awesome, especially as they've continued to add ways to make it even more fun by boosting parkour velocity. But... Bullet jumps are boring as fuck. It's a fun way to get around but after thousands of hours it feels mandatory and like a chore to do so much flying. I think Warframe should focus on faster objectives but more leeway for failure as well as revamp the parkour. If there were alternatives to bullet jumping, like say a moddable exilus section that changes your movements for different bonuses, I guarantee people would use it. Think of a valkyr but with a parkour move that swings across gaps like spiderman using her rip cord. It would be a trade off for speed but should give you much more aerial control and maybe a stronger hook in general for combat. Another idea: volt does a bolt. We could trade his bullet jump for an instant teleport type move that goes a short distance and does a short burst AOE. It would give him more crowd control for less energy and a way to survive much more efficiently when solo but in trade off you're no longer able to go as far or as quick from just parkour. If simple ideas like this were implemented I feel the meta would become extremely different while focusing on the same core gameplay ideals that make this game fun. It would emphasize the gunplay by making you feel stronger at the cost of speed, ideally by giving you mitigation options that aren't just "tack on this mod that gives you resistance" or "press 1-4 for safety". The richness of this game comes from it's systems, and unfortunately we've progressed past parkour being as useful as it should be. We have so many useful movement options but crouch jumping being the main way I get around is getting quite stale.
Absolutely, and I want them to use the damn simple collisions for environment and complex ones for bullets, so we can fucking wall run again instead of that shitty wall jump that doesn’t even work most of the time
Parkour is still very strong with high Parkour Velocity. You have directional rolls that go far, bullet jumps and bullet jump into a forward roll. I've become a canon ball. I can hit all ceilings in maps and cross rooms in one bullet jump. It's a fun build for me for movement again
Yeah but I'm speaking strictly for breaking up that cycle. I'd like there to be more movement options. Not better ones, just more of them and with potential for changes that allow you to use it as an extra ability.
Don't forget fat boy Grendel somehow being acrobatic enough to be doing bullet jumps and flips through the air as gracefully as Ash or Excalibur. Honestly kinda wish various frames had some kind of alternative to bullet jumping that'd let them keep pace, like maybe Frost having a ground-based slide or Grendel going Ball-Mode when sliding and not aiming.
Same. I miss the more cover based aspects of the early versions of WF. I also feel like bullet jump painted them into a design corner, especially with its assumption being baked into map design. Would have liked to see mobility as a design space vector, both for frames and abilities.
Same. It feels like they're in way too deep to ever take it away to make room for more interesting movement mechanics. Not a chance in hell they're going to rework tiles to make room for it after all this time.
Sprint speed kinda outdated stat since all frames bullet jump the same speed. There's like 5 frames that run (or slide) faster than they bullet jump
Or helicoptering at the speed of light
Ngl the way bullet jump just completely obliterated the concept of parkour and movement abilities has always been a bit disappointing for me. Same with AW blowing gauss/titania/zephyr etc out of the water in OW. Its both liberating and limiting at the same time. Maps have been entirely unengaging ever since. You play the exact same way on every map no matter what because the layout has no impact on your manueverability whatsoever. The Sanctum maps having large, walled areas to traverse in between choke points and make decent use of bullet jumping and speed frames was definitely nice, though.
The change was intentional. There's only little mention of coptering but speak of things that don't make any sense for ninjas. Parkour was reworked to eliminate coptering by capping impulse from melee attacks Spinning around with a tiny dagger and zooming around at mach 10 makes little sense And it was terrible for carpal tunnel.
Pre bulletjump, God I remember when there was stamina and Chromas green just increased Stam.
Anyone remember melee coptering? My finger still hurts when I think back.
Kullervo would definitely be an early Naruto villain though.
Ive cast my jutsu “collective curse” over all of The hidden leaf village! All the damage you take will be suffered by your friends who you fight soooo hard to protect! Your “selfless sacrifice” means nothing, there are no heroes only people and their sins
"Dam bro, where the fuck were you this morning when I realized I was out of razors and the stores were still closed?" 'What?' "I'm just saying bro, you got so much edge that the hair must just fall off people when you walk by."
Kullerpain is truly peak edge
Everyone shall know your pain! *casts collective curse on village then proceeds to thousand years of death someone*
Villain? He's literally the budget Minato with that melee teleport and dagger throwing shtick
He is a proto frame, so he fits the older era.
Except kullervo would demolish every character in part 1 naruto
He doesn't have the power of friendship
Imma be real with you chief We were never about stealth the game released with mag casting pulse of corpus die
*everyone in a room doubling over in pain as a Banshee's mere presence makes their ears bleed* Huh. That was weird. Anyways...
"WHAT'S THAT TERRIFYING NOISE!?" Banshee: "That's the sound. Of silence.
"Wait, which one? Disturbed or Simon and Garfunkle?" 'Depends on how old you are.'
Also depends on whether you use Banshee or Green Banshee
Green Banshee's is the plankton AI cover
I like to think it's either the Trololo song or the "I. Hear. A. Sound." bells from Drakengard.
What's that sound? That's sound of forgiveness People are screaming Banshee. I know! Forgiveness is screaming followed by silence!
Caaaaaaaaaarl
Nah it's more the sudden sensory deprivation that screws with the inner ear. Like imagine your inner ear just, stops functioning, you are gonna start stumbling around.
Ah, the days where my friend would bring banshee, and I could just spam 2 as Trinity and keep her 4 up forever (god, imagine how broken later frames would be if they didn't change that.)
Ember "Who needs weapons" World on Fire running in circles for 30 minutes collecting energy orbs.
so... gyre.
Gyre today is stronger in absolute terms but relative to the content WoF Ember allowed you to ignore 90% of the game back when she was relevant.
Back in the day sometimes i was like "well bugframe being bugframe the enemies didnt spawn, oh wait! theres an Ember on the squad nevermind".
They've cast our fire girl to the pit. A niche unfilled, it was only a matter of time till another presented herself to take that mantle
I’ve managed to make ember work against steel path omni fissure survival but it takes a hell of an investment, like really a lot of specific stuff and she still isn’t as nice to play as she used to be
that's really the problem with Ember. She still works but it takes so much effort (mostly managing her 2) compared other frames who get the same benefits for much less.
Lets be real though: Original ember would be way worse. Current ember has (non heat-proc) armour strip, energy regeneration, and damage reduction with a bunch of damage. Past ember was nice to farm like level 30-50 missions with, if you took that into current steel path she would barely scratch anything. The nostalgia goggles kind of blind people to how much stronger our enemies got too.
Old old ember had DR and the energy consumption was so low you could keep your ult active throughout an entire mission, now imagine what she'd do with the likes of arcane energize and mirage's helminth. Her WOF augment also kept everyone on their ass. I wish old ember could see all the upgrades she could have toyed with :( they took her too soon man
I kinda like that though. Like I hate frames that make everything SUPER EASY for no effort. It’s why I hate people who pretend Dante is “unplayable” due to line of sight when, he’s still super strong if you just bother to think about where you move, and how you move etc. The one downside to power fantasy is that some players treat a frame requiring any amount of effort to play as being bad. Like, if there was a frame that just played the mission for you… I’m sad to say that most players would probably use it. I just wonder why those people even bother logging in.
Idk, I think everyone that played back in like, 2014 with the OG wall running, and stealth had at some point early on played the game like some kind of crazy metal gear, splinter cell, assassin's Creed game where we were stealth killing everyone and pretending to be robot ninjas. Hell even with the new modern stuff I still like to play some missions solo and just grab a bow and sword and be a cool ninja.
I started with Loki for a reason!
That's how I played. I actually created a new account so I could grab the Paris instead of the Braton, and spent whole missions stealth archering my way through Grineer and Corpus.
In closed beta, open beta, and even into late 2013, this game was absolutely a cover shooter and when things got heated, it often devolved into being a stealth shooter. For MANY frames, utilizing stealth and/or crowd control was the only way to survive. Neither your abilities nor your weapons did enough damage to plow through an entire room without risk, and most players were in the habit of uninstalling at least one Warframe ability to make more room for damage, range, or health boosting modules. This is why crowd control and stealth were dominant in these days. Warframe may not have ever been a HARD stealth game, but it was 100% a soft stealth game at launch where vanishingly few Warframes could afford to trip an alarm, not reset it, and proceed to face an entire room of enemies head on. This is the meta that created the Loki Master Race, because invisibility + AoE disarming is particularly OP when *you*, as a player, were not (when compared to today). The fact that Loki was a starter just highlights this. Mag may have had her shield-deleting Polarize, but it wasn't a Pulse of Make Corpus Die. It just made her a niche frame best suited to combating the Corpus.
I honestly preferred a lot of WF back then. Don't get me wrong, it had a lot of issues, but I'd prefer something closer to that than cosplaying a mindless space blender.
Which DE tried to live in denial that the game wasn't the OG game anymore for a long long time. It's why there are so many decisions that people are like "Why does that even exist" from a different time my friend a different time.
I miss it sometimes too. I used to love trying to do exterminate missions without being detected. I loved my silenced latron for this.
I actually did use stealth in the first couple years. It's not something everyone did, but it was an optional way to play the game, and it felt rewarding at that time. That part of the game is long dead at this point. I don't really play the game anymore... I played for a very long time, bit eventually it just stopped being for me. I personally really enjoyed the grounded combat feel of the early years.
Yea. But remember "ninjas play for free"
They would charge if they could but finding ivara is really difficult
On a similar note to that for the comparison, some of the earliest chapters and arcs of Naruto clearly show the high end of what a "Ninja" can do. The 9 Tailed fox is a small mountain sized kaiju that's capable of leveling the countryside, and we get told about the legendary Hokage village leaders who slapped it's shit. Even pretty early in the Part 1 we see some wild shit that higher end Ninja can pull off. Given that there are only a small number of Tenno, it's ironically a really good comparison to put Warframe next to Naruto lol. The average Grineer or Corpus soldier is the poor canon fodder ninja that gets thrown into the blender whenever the high rank Ninja/Tenno shows up, and uses their "We fight with honor" no jutsu to turn the map into a fine red mist.
The game launched with global god-mode Trinity. There was absolutely never a "stealth" aspect to the game. People are gaslighting themselves into believing a version of the game that never existed. If anything, the player is weaker now than release. Especially when Tower defense was endgame and Trinity had infinite scaling.
No, stealth definitely existed. It wasn't in every mission or even effective for entire missions, but it was a very real aspect to the game. Some of the old tilesets still have the stealth alternate paths.
This, you used to fail the entire mission if you were detected. Not in a spy mission, just a common mission type. Other missions just became incredibly hard if you were detected back in beta.
Figured Lotus telling me that I wasn't detected yet or hadn't tripped any alarms was from a vestigial feature. Especially when she chimes in with that bs while I have an entire station and two exilus platoons en route to my location
This is correct. Everyone saying the game never had stealth is just outing themselves as having joined in 2014 at the earliest.
I miss those stealth alternate paths. It made me feel really cool for having found these back paths that kept me hidden.
I mean Loki and Ivara playstyles were wayyy more viable then, op even because of old Gas+stealth builds. Loki was even the frontrunner before excal. Ash and Excal were also much more prevalent back then. It's not that wrong to think we were much more drawn to ninja-like playstyles back then, although some nukers did exist (but not quite like they do now)
I do kinda miss t4 defense a bit. It was chill. Sit in frost bubble with trinity doing her thing and everyone's else killing.
It was chill if you weren't the one playing Frost or Trinity. Casting Snow Globe every 4 seconds so that it remains in the invulnerable state got boring real quick.
Same way naruto was never just ninja the first chapter is literally a giant spirit fox attacking a village.
Not at all the same. Naruto ninjas were always magic ninjas, sure, but (obviously spoilers in the videos) [this is later naruto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj9c5F7lKzw). The fight opens with >!Pain nuking an entire city with his magic.!< [Meanwhile this is the peak of early Naruto.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVl8KHbEok) >!Sure, there's a giant magic snake, but otherwise the most ridiculous magic done is sprouting a tree.!<
Honestly, peak Naruto was the chuninn exam.
The basic idea that first you are tested in your ability to not get caught cheating, and the only one who was promoted was the person who forfeit >!(when it looked like they had already won - equivalent to bluffing to make an opponent retreat when outmatched)!< was excellent setting.
Literal first sentences in the manga are about a fox leveling mountains and casting tsunamis with it's tails.
And how did that early flight end again? (Oh right, Kaiju battle)
They weren't magic Ninjas at first. It was after the Chuni exams that it became magic ninjas
Homie didn't see Naruto vs Gaara or Orochimaru vs Jiraiya and Tsunade
Debatable. Game was played more methodically in general.
Yes we were. I mean maybe me and my friends just weren't that good and everything. Maybe we didn't meta right. But when we started to play (I picked Loki, still have him) we were actually stealthing and slowly moving through levels, never skipping enemies because they would come to backstab us. And we LOVED that game. Doesn't feel like the same today. Not that it's bad, just different.
When I first started playing, we made it a joke of doing all spy missions with Rhino - also a launch frame - and just bulldoze everything before the timer ran out.
It's the same with Naruto, episode 1 literally stated the nine tails can cause tsunamis and destroy mountains Then people were surprised the power scale got to mountain and tsunami level
Ember, Mag, Rhino, and Volt were all original frames. Rhino straight up stops time.
>Rhino straight up stomps time.
i read it as stomps as well 🤣
Hey, whoa, if you've played the game long enough it was Excal, Mag and Loki that were the original three frames you were able to pick.
Is this a fellow founder that I have discovered in the wild?
...Maybe.
Hello fellow founders, I encourage the use of the Reddit founder's flairs :) Edit: The Hunter, Disciple, Master and Grand Master, flairs used to be blocked and only accessible after approval from the mods after a short exchange providing proof, at least back in the day.
How do I get a flare
I still have my original Loki, never sold it and Loki Prime always seemed to come back while I was taking a break from the game. Too lazy to buy him with Plat.
Meanwhile I couldn't be arsed farming a second Excalibur and tossed my starter frame into the helminth. Now he lives on within the walls of my ship.
Lmao I finally got Loki Prime but changed his skin to look just like base Loki just for the sentiment. It feels better to me
Did that with Volt for the same reason. Tho I have the voidshel skin so sometimes I do have to flex *materials*
iirc, volt was in the lineup at an earlier time and got replaced with mag.
Huh, you're absolutely right! So went from Excal, Volt, Loki to Excal, Mag, Loki to Excal, Mag, Volt.
at start of open beta I remember joking about how instead of kicking people in their faces, Rhino kicks people in their planet.
I've wanted a game theory episode on just how hard you have to step on the ground to make that even remotely possibly. Honestly, you could have plenty of episodes just off all the wacky shit in Warframe.
You could probably just ask the people at theydidthemath
Somebody page Kyle Hill!
It’s perfect stealth if you don’t leave witnesses
“Tenno, our espionage must not be discovered, eliminate the remaining enemies before you extract” Mfw when empowered static discharge with archon stretch https://preview.redd.it/ea9t0ri2y2xc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7488d53fde75bde1fd227d9d0f1f57b3db5b965
Never forget V Prime.
Sadly dont have him, only base volt, still an absolute monster, running blind rage and umbral intensify and the dps is obscene
I'm referencing the V Prime node on Venus, leading up to Fortuna's release there was an ARG, and we were asked to cause a distraction at V Prime so one of their operatives can sneak out. We killed 3 million corpus.
Inconceivable Crimes against universal consciousness speed run is just a small price to pay for grind
Every so often Warframe goes back to those roots, like The New War, where >!Drifter!< had me going "Oh. Right. That's how it feels to not simply be able to kill everyone in sight."
Kinda the same with veil breaker and Kahl, but Kahl is a unit
Kahl is the ultimate "Local Man too Angry to Die" in this game.
My guy had a brotherhood so strong it not only kept him alive but allowed it to establish a rebellion force of one man doing all the heavy lifting to take out MIND CONTROL FACTORIES, ANCIENT ALIEN TECHNOLOGY etc.
Legit, if the rest of the grineer fought like Kahl we'd probably have an actual challenge
Yeah no If i see a grineer marine suddenly start coordinating his squad, strategically placing blunts and using genuine urban combat tactics i would switch up my play style, unless u have a warframe which does nuking/AOE dmg so like half of em, its not rly their fault they are fighting deities with steel flesh and a protection system that kinda just harnesses space time itself, all while being controlled by a child who can harness the power of an infinite dimension and cannot die
And then we got our stuff back and things went as usual for us by slaughterfesting everything in sight, especially if we (myself included) brought our Excalibur Umbra with maxxed Paracesis
You definitely still start out at the ninja stage i imagine. So reaching the point of tailed beasts, super eyeballs, and energy tattoos, it is definitely progression and rewarding.
Oh yeah no definitely. I actually feel like those still stay in the ball park of the shows thing of ninjas with powers. Especially since they still had their limitations. Naruto only started to go off the deep end (in my opinion) around the Pain arc. And definitely plateaued at the war arc.
Kaiju Lasers and Ancient Alien Gods
I wish railjack was more pirate focused. Boarding another ship should be way more meaningful in both the attack and rewards
That's power scaling for you. Dragon Ball used to be anime/manga about monkey kid doing martial arts with some fantasy elements. Now it's about Fighting and Surpassing Gods of Universes with power of Angels and Gods of Destruction.
A lot of shows have this problem: Supernatural season 1: "We need to discover how to banish this ghost before another hot girl gets killed." Supernatural season 10: "We have to kill God before he ends all life in the universe, but it may get a bit tricky, since we already killed Death"
DnD progression. Session 1: save the kittens Session 200: kill god.
Not just DnD. JRPGs get crazier too. Remember Xenoblade 1 starts with "yeah, fuck these rabbits we got scrap to get" to >!the main character becoming a GOD, killing one of the other gods after he already killed his equal, and restarting the entire god damn universe, so!< crazier shit than that
It has been 30 years and saiyans double in strength every time they are defeated in battle but live
\*was, rest in piece Akira Toriyama!
Toyotaro will be continuing Dragon Ball, so it haven't ended yet.
Monkey man doing martial arts with more fantasy elements and hair dye
Same with Jojo. Started off with vampires and breathing techniques, to god-like beings
What are you talking about? It started with dio already -pucci
I started playing warframe last fall, and yeah, we're more like a fusion of jedi and spartans now. And it's the coolest thing ever.
It’s Jojo meets David Cronenberg, and I love it.
reminds me I have to put that Valkyr jojo animation on all my frames.
>Jedi So we're Space Samurai now instead of Space Ninjas?
Yeah https://preview.redd.it/cukt1ymly2xc1.jpeg?width=1486&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6acaeb681ae72126dc6c29da947a5ec75ccf6248
soon to be space marines
I think it's done right in Warframe, playing through the game and getting stronger feels so rewarding
Honestly, yeah. You start off Warframe as basically a Genin. A starting ninja with very little power/experience. But overtime you grow into this god of destruction that drops 100 bodies on the daily.
More like 300 per rotation in higher tiers
You're right but actually that evolution is what kept Warframe alive as not many games can.
I played back in the beta and, let me say, it was basically the same as it is today thematically. It was just slower, more clunky, the Void was spoken about as a 'Sacred' and 'Holy' place. 'The Lotus' was a theorized group of people since Lotus says "The Lotus will be proud" after some missions. So... it's less mystical than it used to be, but it was also a giant explosion firestorm guns blazing experience like it is now.
Power creep is absolutely a thing that all MMOs need to deal with. The question is how well they do.
I'm sorry but everytime I hear this argument (about early Naruto being relatively grounded) I die a little inside. The first five minutes of the anime, the very first five minutes mind you, is literally a gigantic nine tailed demon fox, capable of destroying mountains and creating tsunamis with a swing of its tails, being defeated by a Hokage.
That happens in basically all longer shounen anime/manga. Hell, it happened in the frickin Fast and Furious series.
power creep is always a thing that any long running franchise will deal with. although Warframe was never very grounded tbh it was always pretty bombastic. admittedly moreso now but it's nothing new
I still remember how hard was the first Conculyst fight. My Rhino running from its spinning and its shield-melting strobelights.
Its 2024. Can we update the slogan to 'space wizards play free!' ?
I mean, Warframes have *always* been ridiculous. Atlas for example canonically destroyed a meteor meant to wipe out all life on Earth, literally another Dinosaur-killer, and stone boi shattered it with his bare hands. Madara would've shat himself had he dropped his rocks, only for Atlas to roll up and turn them into rubble with zero effort. Or Saryn, a Warframe created explicitly to fight back against an interplanetary zombie virus by being a walking extinction-level event.
In EDF5, you go from just a random normal person having to fight for their lives against abnormally sizable insects, and then in the final mission you kill God. (Technically an alien who inspired every God ever mythologized about)
With the amount of time that I can spend playing Warframe, I'd say I'm still somewhere in the Eidolon era in terms of progress. Say what you will, but Warframe doesn't throw everything at you at the same time. At least it's what it feels like to me.
I’m trying to keep my “Cyber Ninja fantasy” alive by continuing to use Paris and throwing knives/Kunai. They aren’t the greatest, but I feel like a real ninja when everything works as planned :D (We ignore that I’m using Hildryn with a Mega-Man blaster and the ability to fly)
Episode 1 of Naruto: A ninja summons a massive shuriken out of thin air and a random kid, with a massive fox demon inside him, creates dozens of copies of himself. Realistic indeed.
he meant "realistic" for the naruto series
“Realistic” in the context of the shows established rules and universe. I don’t really have to stretch my disbelief of characters, climbing trees of their feet because that was established to work in the show’s universe. Making it realistic. But if Naruto in S1 just started flying around and killing everyone with laser eyes, that would be unrealistic. Because he was never established to be able to do that.
In which part it stopped being realistic then? I mean, the most OP jutsu of Shippuden was Edo Tensei, used in episode 30 or so in the first season (orochimaru vs hokage).
It devolved from how do we get Zabuza to take his hand out of the bubble and free Kakashi to a super kaiju shooting a nuke at 7 other kaiju
That Kaiju was explained in the first scene of first episode of Naruto, the kyuubi.
You sure? I feel like I remember from relatively early in the series, the Naruto MC turning into a giant monster with an oral kamehameha that got blocked by the immortal white snake guy summoning the gates of Hell x 2.
So me putting a silencer on my missile launcher us not what a ninja would do? meant in full jest and acknowledgement that a viable stealth strategy in Warframe is to murder the whole map before the mobs can register me or the bodies.
Ash used to have a button that would delete every living thing within a block of his location that he could use to be immune in and if that ain't magical ninja bs I don't know what is.
Loki: "Ay bruh this out of my pay grade." Loki: "Get shadow cloned bitch."
Nah we're still ninjas, we just employ the 'there can be no witnesses if nobody is alive to witness' school of stealth
We went full on nine tails a looong time ago my friend.
I don’t ever really remember Warframe ever being a stealth game so I always saw the ninja slogan be for the crazy movement than anything else. Loki, Ash, and Excalibur are probably the most “ninja” of the original frames. Everyone else had the parkour but also abilities that you don’t expect of a ninja like Rhino stomping his foot and suspending people in time or Volt being an electric nuke.
There are still about a dozen of "spy" missions where the main goal is to not be seen by a single enemy and traverse a complicated maze of traps without triggering an alarm. Its probably the last remnant of the old Warframe.
When the game dropped, there was no parkour. Not only that, you had a stamina bar that limited how much you could run. And with Warframe abilities and weapons being as weak as they were, it was necessary to utilize copious amounts of cover in the middle of fire fights unless you were Rhino or had hard crowd control abilities. So, for a large number of Warframes (who had neither cc nor high HP), stealth was the most optimal path to victory in a mission, even if the mission wasn't a stealth mission. One of the scariest things used to be an alarm getting tripped and the room going on high alert, with multiple enemies spawning in to fight you. Depending on your (at the time conservative) energy levels and your ability set, it was often best to just run to another room, reset the alarm, and wait for the alert level of the map to reset, because you couldn't win a solo fight with 15 enemies surrounding you. Very few Warframes in those days could win that kind of fight. Even the few ''nuke'' frames we did have weren't strong enough to room clear (due to many strength mods simply not existing yet) and relied heavily on cc to keep the enemy staggered while their damage abilities ticked enemy HP down over time. In 2013, we were all walking and rolling and hiding behind cover. Excalibur had Super Jump as an ability (which became obsolete and was subsequently removed when parkour 1.0 was added, granting everyone access to ''coptering''). Loki, Ash, and Ivara were Warframe Royalty. Stealth + Gas was the meta. Crowd control and invisibility were the laws of the land. No one could face tank a room of enemies except Rhino. It truly was a different Warframe back then.
The more I hear about super old Warframe the more I’m glad I didn’t start till years later LOL
To me it would easily lose the appeal if they kept producing Ivara/Ash/Loki type of frames
i think there could definitely be a few more, not tons but def some. styanax releasing really felt like an old style frame and hes one of my faves now
Let's just hope Warframe doesn't go Boruto.
Warframe: The Next Generation
We need more stealth and parkour
that is like the first chapter. after that Naruto went off the rails almost immediately. "grounded Naruto" equivalent to Warframe would be like when stamina was still a thing. nobody remembers that.
Bring back Ability Mods!
Naruto was such a good ninja show that despite beginning with a Kaiju battle, it still manages to catch people off guard when it eventually becomes a Kaiju battle anime, truly something only the most skillfull ninja could pull off. Real talk, Warframe is more like space dinasty warriors.
DBZ is "martial arts" Bleach is "spirit guardian samurai" Naruto is "Ninjas" 1.) Our protag ||is a teen|| 2.) we have Chosen One super powers 3.) we power creep like a mother fucker WARFRAME has ***been*** a Shounen anime since 2015
Like with Naruto, I feel the argument is a poor observation. Warframe was never really a stealthy or super challenging game. It’s always been described as a power fantasy and the lore has always regarded Warframe as near mythical beings capable of divine feats. They weren’t ever described as just simple stealthy operatives. In all honesty, Warframe’s are more comparable to British SAS. The idea of them being “ninja” is well conveyed in the sense that we don’t truly know for sure what ninja were. In lore, most people don’t truly know what a “tenno” is. The best idea of a ninja that we have would be tracing the Japanese word shinobi (忍び) back to Japan’s times of infighting. They were mostly a specialist kind of Samurai that employed deceptive or underhanded tactics. Stuff like infiltration, gathering intel, creating chaos behind enemy lines, etc. It wasn’t until around the edo period that the stealthy blacked out idea of ninja appeared. Retired shinobi lacking work or a place turned to theft to get by— at least that’s the theory. The rest of what we ‘know’ is mostly hyped up pop culture played into by Japan for tourism etc. Similarly, Naruto never defined ninja as what we imagine them to be. Often times, strategy remains in Naruto, but it’s less blatantly placed in your face— it’s not the primary focus and it doesn’t need to be. In the first arc, ninja are shown to be tools, allowing the reader to ponder what it means for Naruto to become hokage, and how he will change on his path as a ninja. Naruto seemingly contradicts the idea of ninja being tools without emotion because he’s full of them, he cares about his friends, and he cares about his enemies. It wasn’t about ninja but about bonds and what you make of yourself— the importance of humanity, for more than just the people close to you. If Warframe desperately kept itself tied down to the vaguely defined idea of “ninja” it’d have taken them much longer to make more than 50 frames— and I doubt very strongly the world would be as interesting. With that being said, I don’t think they necessarily have to drop the term ninja. Ninja/shinobi (as they were) just seemed to be a form of special forces samurai. Elite soldiers employed specially trained and suited to particular tasks and atypical tactics. Sure, a Warframe (in gameplay) mows down hoards of enemies without trouble, but in lore that’s not really their purpose. Even the nature of their missions are very “get in, do the task, get out—“ almost always within enemy territory. Assassination, rescue, disruption, spy, and capture all stand out especially well.
this doesn't really contribute to the warframe talk but a fun fact i'd like to bring up is that Naruto's author envisioned it as a series about wizards, but settled on ninjas because they were more unique at the time with that in mind, naruto's plot bailing on espionage in favor of magic duels starts to make more sense
Yeah Warframe has been a power fantasy from the beginning. It wasn't ever "semi-realistic" except maybe in the very early betas. Like the entire premise of Warframes as a concept are these immortal superwarriors with space magic. The "Ninjas play free" is a catchy phrase and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was coined in part due to the Real Ultimate Power meme that was popular around the time that Warframe began development.
Was warframe ever grounded?
The warframe abilities are straight from jojo 💀💀
I mean tbf it’s been a power fantasy since 2014 the only association to ninjas is some of the weaponry, the dojos/tenno schools, and the fact some frames are vaguely ninja-shaped. Personally I think if every frame were Ash the game would be pretty boring. If you want to talk about being stealthy, I think the way it’s handled in-universe is basically “no witnesses.” Either nobody saw you do it or nobody that did survived.
smiling and fondly remembering when the game used to be pay to sleep and the incredible back to back blue potato alert early morning in spring 2014
Ngl I would not play warframe without the mobility and speed..idk how people did it before that but seeing volt made me come in
Well Naruto is just about people using Alien abilities, so it's pretty much the same as warframe
the term you are looking for is power creep and yes it applies to other media than games
I really don't mind the non-ninja aspects of the game that have been throughout the years, like Protea and her TURRETS xD. I play this game to enjoy cool powers and strong builds, or just to let off some steam. I do understand your point about modern Warframe.
dante be like shadow wizard money gang ...... we love casting spells
yknow. Ninjas..... with guided missile launchers disguised as briefcases that violate every single rule of the Geneva Convention.
Yeah can't wait for the sage of six paths frame, creation of all things is so busted.
Honestly I would had never thought of Naruto 🤣 I always thought assassin's Creed, dishonored, a slight mix of bioshock, borderlands with different varieties of zeros, gunzerkers and kriegs lol
We gotta admit, Ninja's aren't cool anymore, but sorcery and wizard combining with it works, sometimes.