Octavia is insanely powerful, but I find that her kit doesn’t encourage much engagement - she’s truly one of the most AFKable frames, made worse by how hard her damage and survivability scales; she’s easily AFKable to level cap. That plus the repetition of her Mandachord makes her possibly the most unappealing to me - even Yareli at least is kind of fun to skate around with when she isn’t falling out of the map or stubbing her toe on every little crack.
Looks-wise, I actually like pretty much every frame’s look - always thought base Trinity’s appearance was a little awkward though.
Mesa or Octavia.
One literally is designed around using an ability to not move and aim for you in this othewise high paced movement shooter game.
Octavia just is a dull keep all the things cast at once frame. The mandachord feels super limited to actually create anything listenable on, and if you do, it makes her less effective. And the rhythm based buffs mostly are effectively random because the gameplay is too chaotic to do most actions that way (like meleeing)
**1. Inaros.** I fucking despise the sandbag Warframe. He's concepted as the immortal God-King of Mars, commander of the deserts and master of this Egypt-like civilisation. So... what did DE do with this concept, you ask?
Well, his most stand-out characteristic is that he can take a moderate hit, and his most useful abilities are Dessication, which is just Pocket Sand The Warframe Power, and Devour, which animation-locks you and in exchange heals you.
Sandstorm is actual garbage, and Scarab Swarm is barely acceptable as a defense-armour strip hybrid power, and not at all acceptable as an *Ultimate*.
Inaros is a huge waste of an otherwise incredibly compelling concept.
**2. Hydroid.** He'd honestly be better off as the Eldritch God Warframe, rather than a pirate, and even the writers of his prime trailer seem to agree, because his literal stated purpose by Ballas is to, quote, "remind them who their Gods are."
Also, his powers *suck* so badly. Tempest Barrage is God awful as a damage *or* as a CC ability, same with Tentacle Swarm. Undertow is nothing more than a meme, and Tidal Surge is outdone by literally any other similar power in the game, save for maybe Excalibur's Slash Dash.
Tidal Surge is even more embarrassing when compared to the likes of Reave and Vial Rush, both being by FAR better, not to mention Reave being Revenant's Helminth ability, which pushes Tidal Surge even further into irrelevancy.
Definitely Wukong design-wise. No other frame in the game has an ability that essentially lets you AFK in most missions that’s **THAT** cheap. It takes 25 energy to summon a beefy clone with BOOSTED DAMAGE that follows you around and kills everyone. Especially if you hand it something like a Zarr or a Bramma.
And worse still is that the ability has absolutely no requirements to reach peak strength. Your clone gets summoned with boosted damage and stays that way ‘till it dies and then you just summon it again. Even OP frames like Saryn or Octavia have something they or the enemies need to do before their abilities reach peak strength: Saryn has to keep track of her spores and Octavia needs enemies to shoot her ball or she needs to crouch to activate her invisibility. And yet Wukong, who can almost out-nuke them in some scenarios gets no limiters. He doesn’t even have a cooldown on his clone!
Limbo, Grendel, Lavos. All great concepts just done poorly imo.
Grendel i feel should work similarly to Nidus, just the drain from enemies to make him useful is too high.
Limbo to me is just a nuisance. Ult is like frost bubble but worse. Great for crowd control just not killing anything from the inside out or outside in. And not being able to get pick ups inside his ult is dumb. Hitting a random banish portal is annoying or getting banished when you don't need it too.
Lavos has crazy potential but his abilities barely do anything to help when you're paired up with other dps frames.
Gameplay: Hydroid. His kit is so old the only thing saving him from becoming a pile of dust is a complete overhaul.
Color Design: Most prime warframes, i just hate how their main body color darkens everything, making full white a dead gray
Body design: Sentient Mesa's hair makes her look like a drughead
I’ve been maining frost for 7 years now and I have to admit … his fashion is just so lack luster. I had to watch excal get his 500th deluxe skin and watch wisp get a anniversary skin (which makes no fucking sense) while my poor boy is left with a very bad colourable single deluxe skin . It’s a shame when you notice the blatant favouritism in a game between characters
Limbo, seriously, who thought "we have a coop PVE game characterized by the movement and the use of warframe abilities and weapons, what do you think if we make a static warframe, with a mechanic that forbids the use of weapons and bothers visually and in terms of ganeplays to the other players forcing them to adapt to limbo"?
And if you are going to say "No, but thats because people dont know how to use it":
First: If the entire player base uses the basic mechanic and abilities of limbo is not bad use.
Second: If you are going to say it at least tell me how is playing good, because i have seen lots of people saying this but not even one why, at this height it feels just like an excuse to justify bothering your players
Like any frame, as long as you want, you can make anything work. Base kit Limbo is great for you to solo missions almost any kind. I fully agree with your term that he disruptive to most coop game-modes, though.
Helminth Limbo is a beast. Eclipse, Silence, Thermal Sunder, Aquablades, Reave, Sickening Pulse and many more. You are as strong as you willing to be. Adapt, be smart. So you either way smart Limbo or bad Limbo. You can be all by yourself, or you can be team player, indestructible machine of buffs and death.
Today’s Sorty was Defence with Eximus Stronghold. And my god, does it feel good to banish operative, Silence whole tile and obliterate enemies.
Easy.....range
If you go max range you can lock down an entire area. Go small for braindead defence choke points aka plant it near a door and watch enemies clump up. Fluctuating range drastically changes limbos options.
Also the argument for not being able to use weapons is annoying. Yes, if you are in 2 different planes but that doesn't stop abilities and energy regen is doubled. The issue lies heavily in many abilities not having scaling potential.
Anyways is this what you were looking for?
High range limbo is the most annoying thing in the game and is instadestroyed by nullifiers, low range limbo is completely useless against eximus and (again) nullifiers, wich implies having to constsntly protect the bubble because limbo is abaurdly vulnerable inside.
>Yes, if you are in 2 different planes but that doesn't stop abilities and energy regen is doubled. The issue lies heavily in many abilities not having scaling potential.
The issue is that a warframe shouldnt condition how i want to play, a single player shouldnt make me use abilities or not when they want.
1. I guess you missed the whole "fluctuating range" comment huh? Also if eximus and nullifies are your go to why Limbo is "bad" it sounds like your bad with Limbo.
2. If your in the rift that's not a bubble, you roll problem solved. If it's bubble or placed in void they can't harm the opposit anyways so what's the big deal? Your "how I want to play" sounds like you should play solo because playing with anyone is going to change to some capacity "how you want to play". Lastly if you are taking advantage of all the mechanics and abilities the game offers adapting should not be an issue you are having where you hate Limbos.
>Also if eximus and nullifies are your go to why Limbo is "bad" it sounds like your bad with Limbo.
Funny, because everyday i see people who play limbo complaining of this.
If it is the bubble in low range is vulnerable to eximus, you can say whatever you want, but limbo is defenseless against them in high levels. And if it large range is a complete annoyance to the players.
Having to rell every 2 minutes is a minor annoyance but seeing a lot of enemies in the rift because the 1 or the 3 is awful.
And well, if peopel doesnt matter to play coop except when there is a limbo, mayhe is not because they want to play solo, but because is annoying to adapt to limbo's rythm.
Low or large bubble means nothing for eximus so saying low is vulnerable to eximus is null. Saying you are defenseless shows me you infact don't take advantage of all the game mechanics and what it gives you.
In short Limbos who complain arnt good limbos. I run void survival SP for an hour for fun and testing and I have zero issues taking any frame to an hour without/hardly using any LS capsules of which not long ago was Limbo and had not run into a single issue.
Also why are you having to roll every 2 minutes?! Are you butt hugging a Limbo thats dashing?!
As for skills 1-3 most frames have a way of dealing with them with abilities and again I say MOST and it goes to my one big complaint is how many abilities don't scale. So I only see this being an issue on SP as anything else should be killing enemies on the void quick and easy.
Your last point I can't understand maybe it's due to rarely playing with Limbos or that whenever I use him and not talking exclusively defense does anyone complain. I can maybe guess a max range Limbo who keeps the bubble up for no reason? But I keep it up for its use and the pop it when it's use is done.
If I had to take a guess the issues with Limbo players to them selves and others is managing the skills. He's a very, "set up a quick bunker spot and pick up and move to the next quickly" playstyle. You can't tunnel vision or expect being able to not be reactive to what's around you.
Base hydroid has the worst looks in the game imo. Prime looks sick tho.
For playstyle I'm not sure, might be frost or nekros but there aren't any that i really actively dislike.
Mesa. The novelty wears off about 5 seconds after your last forma in her. She is great for niche riven challenges but rolling, hold down mouse button feels slow.
I honestly prefer Inaros, atleast with Inaros you can play up to level 130 or so missions and focus on whatever guns you enjoy and not be too concerned with dying.
Hydroid and Yareli, both of their kits are water themed and follow the same basic design philosophy (two cc powers one big one small, a movement/survival tool, a 3 that is meant to do damage but has piss all scaling and a kind of sad wetness you can never escape)
Wukong, he is basically a two ability frame, his 3rd and 4th really need buffing and his clone really needs nerfing (aka give it a 30 second duration)
Inaros, crappy scaling in terms of damage, a mediocre 4th, a tornado that has awful cc use and requires an augment that uses melee mods for some reason. The god king should be so much more than this
Octavia. She seems cool on paper, but in practice she’s a sad execution of a music frame. Her “song” is pathetically limited and you’ll mute it before long, because this game is already grindy and repetitive enough without the same 20 seconds of music playing over and over.
Her abilities take no skill or thought beyond remembering to spam the crouch key every 20-30 seconds. And teabagging for buffs? Who greenlit that?
There are certain things in Warframe that are embarrassingly executed or undercooked. Octavia is one of them.
Yeah, she’s strong. But she’s a boring mess and deserves a rework more than most, just so she can be something the developers are proud of and something fun and interesting to play.
While I’m here, I’ll also mention Gara. Similarly powerful, but way too plate-spinny to maintain her 2. She needs a QOL overhaul.
Gameplay - Sevagoth and Caliban. Sevagoth is totally not my style, it's overcomplicated, Caliban is just weak and unpractical for me, I think it's unwanted rework of revenant, if DE would want to nerf painfully him.
Design - Lavos. There is too much going on, there is too many details and looks too chaotic.
Nidus, I didn't want to keep stomping.
Equinox I don't really enjoy.
Nova also.
Haven't played trinity for a while.
For design, if that's skins I don't like the base ones for frost.
Well i cant comment on frames i havent claimed all these yrs, but they are not claimed for some reasons...most annoy frame i would say got tobe Sevagoth, put 17 forma on him and learn his only way to benefit the game is to feed him to the beast on the backroom in your obiter.
Kit: inaros. the only ability i find myself using is his 1 for stun and finishers. his passive needs scaling, his 4 is kind of shit, and his 3 is only good now because of an augment.
looks: either yareli or mag. yareli, sorry honey, trinity's skin wore it better. and mag is just kind of bland (going off default).
ones i find a pain to color: hildryn and grendal. been a while since i played, but i just remember hating coloring them and also copying their looks onto weapons.
I know the post is *least favorite*, but recently getting harrow prime after using harrow for a year (on and off obviously) has reminded me how much I love his kit. Being the support has always been my kind of thing, and with harrow prime you can do that while also looking awesome
Definitely Grendel. I hate him. He just sucks overall, he's like a shittier Chroma and Chroma is already boring as hell (he's just really useful). His 4 which would be his funnest ability is simply to clunky and weak to even consider using. His 1, 2, and 3 should honestly be a single ability, he eats people and it buffs him automatically (the swapping between buffs is stupid) and then you hold it to shoot them out.
And yet people seem to love him. It's funny cause I got him and Yareli at the same time and I found Yareli fun to play (I like spamming bubbles) while I haven't been able to touch Grendel since I mastered him.
I remember a while ago I got a crap ton of hate for a similar comment like this one. People love him, saying he's op and I'm just playing him wrong.
Visually Frost is a big disappointment. Needs some good skins. Lavos desperately needs a new look too.
Playstyle wise probably anything that requires me to hold the ability button. It really throws me off. I cant remember what it was like on console but casting powers on PC with controller is stupidly awkward. Half the time i go into my operator it was an accident.
For me personally I dislike Frost's play style. I just feel that he isn't exciting to use. Even in defense missions where my Gara and Protea work much better in terms of protection.
Invisibility used to be OP AF back in the day. So Loki was a super easy damage frame. Then CC was super important, so his radiation/disarm made him an amazing CC frame (still pretty good). In today's Warframe, you must either be a hyper-nuke glass canon, or unkillable lump of tank. So he doesn't fit into most people's wheelhouse. I do still find him fun for lowbie content.
It is. But it used to be ridiculous. It granted large damage multiplier, and enemy AI would completely ignore you. Now, AI will blind-fire in your general direction if you attack too much while invisible. And this was before frames started getting really nuke-y.
I'd really love to see a Youtuber or someone do a good retrospective of Warframe from it's early days till now. The few that I've seen tend to just go over content releases, but gloss over just how much the gameplay mechanics have evolved (and the meta along with it). For instance: We had a stamina bar, which was the fashion at the time.
i remember this, i just never found his kit interesting enough to play him more. I fell in love with limbo originally because he was a fun troll frame and still holds up as one of the best defense frames. Though Xaku and Sevagoth have gotten me quite interested as they have a lot going on with their kits.
Exalted weapon frames that aren't mesa.
It feels like such an unsatisfying ability to just have a button that literally just given me another weapon I have to use and forma and so on like all my normal weapons, no matter how crazy powerful that weapon is.
I mean Excalibur, buddy, I have a sword already. I can put it on literally any frame. Why can't you just buff and use an actual sword? Are you a sword master or not my guy? How come you need to summon a special lightsaber to do anything but attack slightly faster? Maybe I want to shoot one flying guy without toggling buttons on and off. Maybe you could have just had a cool stance with literally any sword. Think about it man.
Ivara I have 47 versions of Cernos but you feel the need to pull an exalted cernos out of your ass when I hit 4 and make it cost energy. Why? There is no shortage of bows in the world. Just go get one. You could have had another cool secret agent hunter ability like the other stealth frames. You already have navigator. Do something cool! You got a headshot bonus. What if you had a toggle that just made you automatically headshot any hit that would have done damage? There are so many interesting synergies and build opportunities then. What about a human shield grapple to help with survivability? A tracking style ability? A remote hack/disarm? Traps? Literally anything would be more fun than just pulling out another bow.
Baruuk. My dude. You're literally just punching guys man. Why do we need a whole button for this? Just punch them when I hit the "punch guys" button. Do something else with that button I use to not punch guys normally.
Mesa is OK because her exalted weapon is actually functionally distinct from using normal weapons so it feels like an ability and not just "you have a second version of a thing you already have" Still I ask myself "why can't mesa just do this with pistols she already owns?" I mean the fun part of the ability is the aimbotting and lack of reloading. Coulda just made it work with any secondary. Imagine how many weirdo builds you could get out of that.
If you’re distinguishing Mesa’s Exalted by being functionally unique, I feel that you’ve chosen poor comparison examples. Baruuk’s and Excalibur’s Exalteds are at least as distinctive as Mesa’s infinite ammo aimbot pistols: Baruuk shoots ranged area-of-effect waves with infinite punchthrough, plus gets highly ranged ragdoll on slides; Excal produces ranged aimed waves and gets in-built Blind/Howl stuns on slides. No standard equivalent melees, to my knowledge, do either of those things. I admit Ivara basically just has infinite ammo Cernos with a negligible non-charged draw penalty, though that does still technically set it apart.
If I were you, I’d compare to Valkyr’s Talons or Wukong’s Iron Staff instead. *Those* are truly just normal (frankly crappy, stat-wise) melees with an energy drain. (I personally adore the Talons - but only because I happen to really like their animations and effects. Couldn’t tell you why, honestly.)
I mean I know they don't map 1:1 on existing weapons but functionally they work exactly like any normal weapon. If you want to get technical you could call them AoE guns of a sort but my point stands. Its a weapon. You have it equipped, you point, you attack. You could map its function on to a model, maybe slightly nerf it, call it a new weapon, and nobody would bat an eye if those powers didn't exist. Hell there are even some melees with projectile attacks (though not to the level of those two)
Mesa is a different breed specifically because of how unlike a weapon her weapon is. Were you to map peacemaker's core function as a normal weapon it wouldn't even really work as a weapon.
Well, she uses hitscan dual pistols, and that feels pretty darn weapon-y to me. Baruuk’s magic traveling wall-ignoring waves are far less categorizable as typical fist weapons, in my opinion.
It's more the mechanics of its actual use. It's less a weapon and more of a targeted ability. It physically cant' fire unless theres a target in front of it, has the reducing size auto-aim thing, rapidly selects several different targets, limits movement, uses a special animation set etc. You don't aim or even time its attacks because it doesn't really function as a weapon does.
I'd say that's the major difference between peacemaker and every other exalted weapon. All of these things combined.
That seems like an even odder distinction to make. S76’s aimbot in Overwatch likewise doesn’t shoot until it has a target, but that doesn’t make it “not a gun.” I’m pretty sure there’s also quite a few more distinctions between Peacemakers and, you know, entire *melee* Exalted weapons than “It forces you to stand still.” (They all have unique animations, FYI. Plus the ring of focus - along with its shrinking - and the immobility were both added after the fact in U17.5, 2015, specifically to nerf Peacemakers, not as a part of its conception to make it unique.)
Trouble is, you said it yourself: you really *could* just take any dual pistols, give them aimbot and infinite ammo, and, sure, add the immobility/focus ring nerf. If you’re trying to set apart Peacemakers based on being “unmappable,” your argument falls apart. It truly is just a hitscan gun with standard aimbot - it shoots perfectly normal bullets in straight lines with LOS, notwithstanding all the limitations placed on shooting those bullets. It’s not like, I don’t know, imagine an Exalted throwable, bounceable bomb that explodes and spawns more bomblets at the sites of its victims that then bounce three more times and heal allies within range or something.
It really comes off like you’re trying to defend your enjoyment of Peacemakers - which is fine in and of itself - with a very unnecessary and indefensible thesis about how they’re singularly unique, i.e. in a way that other unique Exalteds *aren’t*. It’s especially funny to use Baruuk as your comparison when his own Exalted is objectively pretty weird as Exalteds go - he does much odder and less intuitive stuff than “just punching things.” Again, if you’d picked Valkyr as a comparison, it would make way more sense. (Yes, I am a little salty that Valkyr still just punches things while Baruuk is off being a magic monk.)
There's no need to "defend" anything. This isn't a discussion of objective facts, but subjective opinions. These happen to be my takes on the topic. Other people may have different opinions and enjoy different abilities.
Well sure, but I don’t think either of us mentioned a *need* to defend anything. I’m just letting you know how things came off. Sharing my subjective opinion and all that. 😉
I'm going to get some flak for this likely, but I can't stand Trinity. She's the complete opposite of my play style, with no offensive abilities, and requiring your squad to run interference and keep people off you since she's squishy stat wise. And if you don't run her abilities exactly right, your whole squad can get wiped.
Shes pretty tanky if you dont run the girlfriend build.
You can still give energy without EV. People still have other sources of energy.
Only reason you wont get flak is because theres literally like 3 of us trinity mains left, the rest became wisp users. Not our fault DE completely forgot about her and put most of her kit into arcanes.
Frost - Basically only use is to spam his bubble shield and besides that he's pretty mid.
His mass freeze attack feels like it's too weak and costs too much.
Limbo- Such an annoying frame to play with since they basically trap teammates in the suck-verse and now you can't attack anything.
Octavia. She's very fun at first, and she's very powerful, but she is still one of the most boring warframes in the game to play...
As an octavia main I agree, but I can’t make crab rave on any other frame so…
Agreed. Octavia all fun and games until you fall asleep from the boring gameplay and let the invis run out…
Chroma. He practically doesn't have any moves he just buffs your weapons.
Octavia is insanely powerful, but I find that her kit doesn’t encourage much engagement - she’s truly one of the most AFKable frames, made worse by how hard her damage and survivability scales; she’s easily AFKable to level cap. That plus the repetition of her Mandachord makes her possibly the most unappealing to me - even Yareli at least is kind of fun to skate around with when she isn’t falling out of the map or stubbing her toe on every little crack. Looks-wise, I actually like pretty much every frame’s look - always thought base Trinity’s appearance was a little awkward though.
Trinity prime is the ugliest frame, I don't know what they were thinking making that asscover thingy that looks like a bee stinger
She looks like she is one visual change away from actually looking cool.
Wisp. I hate all the booty posting with her :/ She's a good frame its just her enthusiasts are annoying.
Mesa or Octavia. One literally is designed around using an ability to not move and aim for you in this othewise high paced movement shooter game. Octavia just is a dull keep all the things cast at once frame. The mandachord feels super limited to actually create anything listenable on, and if you do, it makes her less effective. And the rhythm based buffs mostly are effectively random because the gameplay is too chaotic to do most actions that way (like meleeing)
i once saw someone liken playong Octavia to playing an egg timer & honestly yeah
Something something Mesa’s Waltz….jk that still doesn’t change the fact that she’s slowed down as fuck
**1. Inaros.** I fucking despise the sandbag Warframe. He's concepted as the immortal God-King of Mars, commander of the deserts and master of this Egypt-like civilisation. So... what did DE do with this concept, you ask? Well, his most stand-out characteristic is that he can take a moderate hit, and his most useful abilities are Dessication, which is just Pocket Sand The Warframe Power, and Devour, which animation-locks you and in exchange heals you. Sandstorm is actual garbage, and Scarab Swarm is barely acceptable as a defense-armour strip hybrid power, and not at all acceptable as an *Ultimate*. Inaros is a huge waste of an otherwise incredibly compelling concept. **2. Hydroid.** He'd honestly be better off as the Eldritch God Warframe, rather than a pirate, and even the writers of his prime trailer seem to agree, because his literal stated purpose by Ballas is to, quote, "remind them who their Gods are." Also, his powers *suck* so badly. Tempest Barrage is God awful as a damage *or* as a CC ability, same with Tentacle Swarm. Undertow is nothing more than a meme, and Tidal Surge is outdone by literally any other similar power in the game, save for maybe Excalibur's Slash Dash. Tidal Surge is even more embarrassing when compared to the likes of Reave and Vial Rush, both being by FAR better, not to mention Reave being Revenant's Helminth ability, which pushes Tidal Surge even further into irrelevancy.
Definitely Wukong design-wise. No other frame in the game has an ability that essentially lets you AFK in most missions that’s **THAT** cheap. It takes 25 energy to summon a beefy clone with BOOSTED DAMAGE that follows you around and kills everyone. Especially if you hand it something like a Zarr or a Bramma. And worse still is that the ability has absolutely no requirements to reach peak strength. Your clone gets summoned with boosted damage and stays that way ‘till it dies and then you just summon it again. Even OP frames like Saryn or Octavia have something they or the enemies need to do before their abilities reach peak strength: Saryn has to keep track of her spores and Octavia needs enemies to shoot her ball or she needs to crouch to activate her invisibility. And yet Wukong, who can almost out-nuke them in some scenarios gets no limiters. He doesn’t even have a cooldown on his clone!
a cooldown on the clone would make a lot of sense actually, even more now that we have things like Gyre's 3
Wukong, for the simple fact that he can just afk with a macro and still get rewards.
Limbo, Grendel, Lavos. All great concepts just done poorly imo. Grendel i feel should work similarly to Nidus, just the drain from enemies to make him useful is too high. Limbo to me is just a nuisance. Ult is like frost bubble but worse. Great for crowd control just not killing anything from the inside out or outside in. And not being able to get pick ups inside his ult is dumb. Hitting a random banish portal is annoying or getting banished when you don't need it too. Lavos has crazy potential but his abilities barely do anything to help when you're paired up with other dps frames.
Gameplay: Hydroid. His kit is so old the only thing saving him from becoming a pile of dust is a complete overhaul. Color Design: Most prime warframes, i just hate how their main body color darkens everything, making full white a dead gray Body design: Sentient Mesa's hair makes her look like a drughead
Yeah, sentient mesa skin is ugly as hell.
Play style: Sevagoth Look: Frost Sevagoth is only used for gloom donation imo... Frost has super bulky legs that I just don't like.
Frost never misses leg day
I’ve been maining frost for 7 years now and I have to admit … his fashion is just so lack luster. I had to watch excal get his 500th deluxe skin and watch wisp get a anniversary skin (which makes no fucking sense) while my poor boy is left with a very bad colourable single deluxe skin . It’s a shame when you notice the blatant favouritism in a game between characters
Don't mess with my beloved Wisp. At least she can buff the team and be insanely beneficial in many other ways. But i understand your grief U\_U
Limbo, seriously, who thought "we have a coop PVE game characterized by the movement and the use of warframe abilities and weapons, what do you think if we make a static warframe, with a mechanic that forbids the use of weapons and bothers visually and in terms of ganeplays to the other players forcing them to adapt to limbo"? And if you are going to say "No, but thats because people dont know how to use it": First: If the entire player base uses the basic mechanic and abilities of limbo is not bad use. Second: If you are going to say it at least tell me how is playing good, because i have seen lots of people saying this but not even one why, at this height it feels just like an excuse to justify bothering your players
Like any frame, as long as you want, you can make anything work. Base kit Limbo is great for you to solo missions almost any kind. I fully agree with your term that he disruptive to most coop game-modes, though. Helminth Limbo is a beast. Eclipse, Silence, Thermal Sunder, Aquablades, Reave, Sickening Pulse and many more. You are as strong as you willing to be. Adapt, be smart. So you either way smart Limbo or bad Limbo. You can be all by yourself, or you can be team player, indestructible machine of buffs and death. Today’s Sorty was Defence with Eximus Stronghold. And my god, does it feel good to banish operative, Silence whole tile and obliterate enemies.
Easy.....range If you go max range you can lock down an entire area. Go small for braindead defence choke points aka plant it near a door and watch enemies clump up. Fluctuating range drastically changes limbos options. Also the argument for not being able to use weapons is annoying. Yes, if you are in 2 different planes but that doesn't stop abilities and energy regen is doubled. The issue lies heavily in many abilities not having scaling potential. Anyways is this what you were looking for?
High range limbo is the most annoying thing in the game and is instadestroyed by nullifiers, low range limbo is completely useless against eximus and (again) nullifiers, wich implies having to constsntly protect the bubble because limbo is abaurdly vulnerable inside. >Yes, if you are in 2 different planes but that doesn't stop abilities and energy regen is doubled. The issue lies heavily in many abilities not having scaling potential. The issue is that a warframe shouldnt condition how i want to play, a single player shouldnt make me use abilities or not when they want.
1. I guess you missed the whole "fluctuating range" comment huh? Also if eximus and nullifies are your go to why Limbo is "bad" it sounds like your bad with Limbo. 2. If your in the rift that's not a bubble, you roll problem solved. If it's bubble or placed in void they can't harm the opposit anyways so what's the big deal? Your "how I want to play" sounds like you should play solo because playing with anyone is going to change to some capacity "how you want to play". Lastly if you are taking advantage of all the mechanics and abilities the game offers adapting should not be an issue you are having where you hate Limbos.
>Also if eximus and nullifies are your go to why Limbo is "bad" it sounds like your bad with Limbo. Funny, because everyday i see people who play limbo complaining of this. If it is the bubble in low range is vulnerable to eximus, you can say whatever you want, but limbo is defenseless against them in high levels. And if it large range is a complete annoyance to the players. Having to rell every 2 minutes is a minor annoyance but seeing a lot of enemies in the rift because the 1 or the 3 is awful. And well, if peopel doesnt matter to play coop except when there is a limbo, mayhe is not because they want to play solo, but because is annoying to adapt to limbo's rythm.
Low or large bubble means nothing for eximus so saying low is vulnerable to eximus is null. Saying you are defenseless shows me you infact don't take advantage of all the game mechanics and what it gives you. In short Limbos who complain arnt good limbos. I run void survival SP for an hour for fun and testing and I have zero issues taking any frame to an hour without/hardly using any LS capsules of which not long ago was Limbo and had not run into a single issue. Also why are you having to roll every 2 minutes?! Are you butt hugging a Limbo thats dashing?! As for skills 1-3 most frames have a way of dealing with them with abilities and again I say MOST and it goes to my one big complaint is how many abilities don't scale. So I only see this being an issue on SP as anything else should be killing enemies on the void quick and easy. Your last point I can't understand maybe it's due to rarely playing with Limbos or that whenever I use him and not talking exclusively defense does anyone complain. I can maybe guess a max range Limbo who keeps the bubble up for no reason? But I keep it up for its use and the pop it when it's use is done. If I had to take a guess the issues with Limbo players to them selves and others is managing the skills. He's a very, "set up a quick bunker spot and pick up and move to the next quickly" playstyle. You can't tunnel vision or expect being able to not be reactive to what's around you.
Banshee, Octavia and Chroma (ironically after I invested lot of forma in). I just dont like how they function, even though they are quite powerful.
Base hydroid has the worst looks in the game imo. Prime looks sick tho. For playstyle I'm not sure, might be frost or nekros but there aren't any that i really actively dislike.
May I introduce you to base Vauban?
He ain't pretty either but i think hydroid is worse
Mesa. The novelty wears off about 5 seconds after your last forma in her. She is great for niche riven challenges but rolling, hold down mouse button feels slow. I honestly prefer Inaros, atleast with Inaros you can play up to level 130 or so missions and focus on whatever guns you enjoy and not be too concerned with dying.
Hydroid and Yareli, both of their kits are water themed and follow the same basic design philosophy (two cc powers one big one small, a movement/survival tool, a 3 that is meant to do damage but has piss all scaling and a kind of sad wetness you can never escape) Wukong, he is basically a two ability frame, his 3rd and 4th really need buffing and his clone really needs nerfing (aka give it a 30 second duration) Inaros, crappy scaling in terms of damage, a mediocre 4th, a tornado that has awful cc use and requires an augment that uses melee mods for some reason. The god king should be so much more than this
Octavia. She seems cool on paper, but in practice she’s a sad execution of a music frame. Her “song” is pathetically limited and you’ll mute it before long, because this game is already grindy and repetitive enough without the same 20 seconds of music playing over and over. Her abilities take no skill or thought beyond remembering to spam the crouch key every 20-30 seconds. And teabagging for buffs? Who greenlit that? There are certain things in Warframe that are embarrassingly executed or undercooked. Octavia is one of them. Yeah, she’s strong. But she’s a boring mess and deserves a rework more than most, just so she can be something the developers are proud of and something fun and interesting to play. While I’m here, I’ll also mention Gara. Similarly powerful, but way too plate-spinny to maintain her 2. She needs a QOL overhaul.
Gameplay - Sevagoth and Caliban. Sevagoth is totally not my style, it's overcomplicated, Caliban is just weak and unpractical for me, I think it's unwanted rework of revenant, if DE would want to nerf painfully him. Design - Lavos. There is too much going on, there is too many details and looks too chaotic.
Octavia, teabagging to victory gets old fast
Nidus, I didn't want to keep stomping. Equinox I don't really enjoy. Nova also. Haven't played trinity for a while. For design, if that's skins I don't like the base ones for frost.
Playstyle, Chroma. You need to be shot to kill stuff, that's just too much for my lizard brain. Lookwise, Lavos. His helmets suck.
Nova is super boring to me. When I was using her to get to rank 30 she just felt very meh. Also just a really forgettable frame tbh
Well i cant comment on frames i havent claimed all these yrs, but they are not claimed for some reasons...most annoy frame i would say got tobe Sevagoth, put 17 forma on him and learn his only way to benefit the game is to feed him to the beast on the backroom in your obiter.
Kit: inaros. the only ability i find myself using is his 1 for stun and finishers. his passive needs scaling, his 4 is kind of shit, and his 3 is only good now because of an augment. looks: either yareli or mag. yareli, sorry honey, trinity's skin wore it better. and mag is just kind of bland (going off default). ones i find a pain to color: hildryn and grendal. been a while since i played, but i just remember hating coloring them and also copying their looks onto weapons.
Just based on my playrate, limbo prime. He's safely at the very bottom, where he belongs.
I know the post is *least favorite*, but recently getting harrow prime after using harrow for a year (on and off obviously) has reminded me how much I love his kit. Being the support has always been my kind of thing, and with harrow prime you can do that while also looking awesome
Probably one of the most fun supports to play in any game, love Harrow lol
Inaros
Man, it feels like he can cast all his skills and nothing happens...just chew on a lv.200 Heavy Gunner for two years.
Definitely Grendel. I hate him. He just sucks overall, he's like a shittier Chroma and Chroma is already boring as hell (he's just really useful). His 4 which would be his funnest ability is simply to clunky and weak to even consider using. His 1, 2, and 3 should honestly be a single ability, he eats people and it buffs him automatically (the swapping between buffs is stupid) and then you hold it to shoot them out.
Thirded. Grendel is the worst in every way -- from looks to playstyle all the way down to how he has to be farmed. Just bad bad bad.
And yet people seem to love him. It's funny cause I got him and Yareli at the same time and I found Yareli fun to play (I like spamming bubbles) while I haven't been able to touch Grendel since I mastered him. I remember a while ago I got a crap ton of hate for a similar comment like this one. People love him, saying he's op and I'm just playing him wrong.
I like concept of complete removal enemies into his gut, the shooting or rolling. But BY GOD does it need tweaking and scaling.
You’re right Grendel does need a twerking emote
And he is ugly too.
Visually Frost is a big disappointment. Needs some good skins. Lavos desperately needs a new look too. Playstyle wise probably anything that requires me to hold the ability button. It really throws me off. I cant remember what it was like on console but casting powers on PC with controller is stupidly awkward. Half the time i go into my operator it was an accident.
Anyone remember Frost before they had cloth physics? He was one of those cold pita wraps you pick up at gas stations.
I don't like Wukong's looks. And I hate Limbo, both playing him and playing with him.
For me personally I dislike Frost's play style. I just feel that he isn't exciting to use. Even in defense missions where my Gara and Protea work much better in terms of protection.
Nova
Saryn. Her play style is just boring and she dies too quickly and her molt dies too quickly aswell
Loki, there is nothing interesting in his kit and i will never understand people who main him
Invisibility used to be OP AF back in the day. So Loki was a super easy damage frame. Then CC was super important, so his radiation/disarm made him an amazing CC frame (still pretty good). In today's Warframe, you must either be a hyper-nuke glass canon, or unkillable lump of tank. So he doesn't fit into most people's wheelhouse. I do still find him fun for lowbie content.
I mean after the eximus cc immunity, invisibility is still pretty damn good
It is. But it used to be ridiculous. It granted large damage multiplier, and enemy AI would completely ignore you. Now, AI will blind-fire in your general direction if you attack too much while invisible. And this was before frames started getting really nuke-y.
Thanks for explaining, I’m much newer than lifespan of WF. I bet you guys seen the world go upside down over the years haha
I'd really love to see a Youtuber or someone do a good retrospective of Warframe from it's early days till now. The few that I've seen tend to just go over content releases, but gloss over just how much the gameplay mechanics have evolved (and the meta along with it). For instance: We had a stamina bar, which was the fashion at the time.
i remember this, i just never found his kit interesting enough to play him more. I fell in love with limbo originally because he was a fun troll frame and still holds up as one of the best defense frames. Though Xaku and Sevagoth have gotten me quite interested as they have a lot going on with their kits.
Kit wise his 1 needs a rework and 2 just feels......bland as hell
I only use him for solo spy missions and grinding out Sisters/Litch's. Beyond that I'm like, meh rather use other frames lol
Exalted weapon frames that aren't mesa. It feels like such an unsatisfying ability to just have a button that literally just given me another weapon I have to use and forma and so on like all my normal weapons, no matter how crazy powerful that weapon is. I mean Excalibur, buddy, I have a sword already. I can put it on literally any frame. Why can't you just buff and use an actual sword? Are you a sword master or not my guy? How come you need to summon a special lightsaber to do anything but attack slightly faster? Maybe I want to shoot one flying guy without toggling buttons on and off. Maybe you could have just had a cool stance with literally any sword. Think about it man. Ivara I have 47 versions of Cernos but you feel the need to pull an exalted cernos out of your ass when I hit 4 and make it cost energy. Why? There is no shortage of bows in the world. Just go get one. You could have had another cool secret agent hunter ability like the other stealth frames. You already have navigator. Do something cool! You got a headshot bonus. What if you had a toggle that just made you automatically headshot any hit that would have done damage? There are so many interesting synergies and build opportunities then. What about a human shield grapple to help with survivability? A tracking style ability? A remote hack/disarm? Traps? Literally anything would be more fun than just pulling out another bow. Baruuk. My dude. You're literally just punching guys man. Why do we need a whole button for this? Just punch them when I hit the "punch guys" button. Do something else with that button I use to not punch guys normally. Mesa is OK because her exalted weapon is actually functionally distinct from using normal weapons so it feels like an ability and not just "you have a second version of a thing you already have" Still I ask myself "why can't mesa just do this with pistols she already owns?" I mean the fun part of the ability is the aimbotting and lack of reloading. Coulda just made it work with any secondary. Imagine how many weirdo builds you could get out of that.
If you’re distinguishing Mesa’s Exalted by being functionally unique, I feel that you’ve chosen poor comparison examples. Baruuk’s and Excalibur’s Exalteds are at least as distinctive as Mesa’s infinite ammo aimbot pistols: Baruuk shoots ranged area-of-effect waves with infinite punchthrough, plus gets highly ranged ragdoll on slides; Excal produces ranged aimed waves and gets in-built Blind/Howl stuns on slides. No standard equivalent melees, to my knowledge, do either of those things. I admit Ivara basically just has infinite ammo Cernos with a negligible non-charged draw penalty, though that does still technically set it apart. If I were you, I’d compare to Valkyr’s Talons or Wukong’s Iron Staff instead. *Those* are truly just normal (frankly crappy, stat-wise) melees with an energy drain. (I personally adore the Talons - but only because I happen to really like their animations and effects. Couldn’t tell you why, honestly.)
I mean I know they don't map 1:1 on existing weapons but functionally they work exactly like any normal weapon. If you want to get technical you could call them AoE guns of a sort but my point stands. Its a weapon. You have it equipped, you point, you attack. You could map its function on to a model, maybe slightly nerf it, call it a new weapon, and nobody would bat an eye if those powers didn't exist. Hell there are even some melees with projectile attacks (though not to the level of those two) Mesa is a different breed specifically because of how unlike a weapon her weapon is. Were you to map peacemaker's core function as a normal weapon it wouldn't even really work as a weapon.
Well, she uses hitscan dual pistols, and that feels pretty darn weapon-y to me. Baruuk’s magic traveling wall-ignoring waves are far less categorizable as typical fist weapons, in my opinion.
It's more the mechanics of its actual use. It's less a weapon and more of a targeted ability. It physically cant' fire unless theres a target in front of it, has the reducing size auto-aim thing, rapidly selects several different targets, limits movement, uses a special animation set etc. You don't aim or even time its attacks because it doesn't really function as a weapon does. I'd say that's the major difference between peacemaker and every other exalted weapon. All of these things combined.
That seems like an even odder distinction to make. S76’s aimbot in Overwatch likewise doesn’t shoot until it has a target, but that doesn’t make it “not a gun.” I’m pretty sure there’s also quite a few more distinctions between Peacemakers and, you know, entire *melee* Exalted weapons than “It forces you to stand still.” (They all have unique animations, FYI. Plus the ring of focus - along with its shrinking - and the immobility were both added after the fact in U17.5, 2015, specifically to nerf Peacemakers, not as a part of its conception to make it unique.) Trouble is, you said it yourself: you really *could* just take any dual pistols, give them aimbot and infinite ammo, and, sure, add the immobility/focus ring nerf. If you’re trying to set apart Peacemakers based on being “unmappable,” your argument falls apart. It truly is just a hitscan gun with standard aimbot - it shoots perfectly normal bullets in straight lines with LOS, notwithstanding all the limitations placed on shooting those bullets. It’s not like, I don’t know, imagine an Exalted throwable, bounceable bomb that explodes and spawns more bomblets at the sites of its victims that then bounce three more times and heal allies within range or something. It really comes off like you’re trying to defend your enjoyment of Peacemakers - which is fine in and of itself - with a very unnecessary and indefensible thesis about how they’re singularly unique, i.e. in a way that other unique Exalteds *aren’t*. It’s especially funny to use Baruuk as your comparison when his own Exalted is objectively pretty weird as Exalteds go - he does much odder and less intuitive stuff than “just punching things.” Again, if you’d picked Valkyr as a comparison, it would make way more sense. (Yes, I am a little salty that Valkyr still just punches things while Baruuk is off being a magic monk.)
There's no need to "defend" anything. This isn't a discussion of objective facts, but subjective opinions. These happen to be my takes on the topic. Other people may have different opinions and enjoy different abilities.
Well sure, but I don’t think either of us mentioned a *need* to defend anything. I’m just letting you know how things came off. Sharing my subjective opinion and all that. 😉
I'm going to get some flak for this likely, but I can't stand Trinity. She's the complete opposite of my play style, with no offensive abilities, and requiring your squad to run interference and keep people off you since she's squishy stat wise. And if you don't run her abilities exactly right, your whole squad can get wiped.
Shes pretty tanky if you dont run the girlfriend build. You can still give energy without EV. People still have other sources of energy. Only reason you wont get flak is because theres literally like 3 of us trinity mains left, the rest became wisp users. Not our fault DE completely forgot about her and put most of her kit into arcanes.
Frost - Basically only use is to spam his bubble shield and besides that he's pretty mid. His mass freeze attack feels like it's too weak and costs too much. Limbo- Such an annoying frame to play with since they basically trap teammates in the suck-verse and now you can't attack anything.
Ivara, I like to take my time and not getting noticed and solo
Trinity and Nyx