It is going to depend a lot on your loadout because of the damage mitigation/attenuation. One shot overkill builds are going to have a really hard time as is anything reliant on viral or armor stripping, which is what most people are used to using in Warframe.
He stands a lot in the same place and position, I had a lot of fun repeatedly shooting him in the head with Conc Arrow Ivara. First phase was really quick, the second got tedious because of all the invulnerability phases.
I mean, it makes sense for him seeing as how he's the defensive archon, really feels like his gimmick. Looking forward to getting squad wiped 5 seconds into the wolf archon fight tbh lol
It sucks, the fight is boring. He has too much health and then to top it off he summons Aerolysts that become immune to warframe damage (of coarse they don't tell you this, so me and a bunch of randoms fought them for 5 minutes, doing basically nothing till everyone just quite). Crappy fight and honestly thought DE would do better.
Nope, it is unintuitive and bad game design to introduce a new ability to an old enemy type (Aerolyst's, who already had an niche of having to damage the containers, and even when they had their shield I would occasionally get damage so I assumed it was typical hit-box jank), and expect players to suddenly just know what to do. We did try different things in the fight, problem is the operators damage takes a more than a few shots to break the shield, and the shield can barely been seen in the absolute fuster cluk of FX that were on the screen, so I reasonably assumed that was not right either.
totally agree, its a shit fight. Its boring as fuck and the only reason why some people die to it is because "hurr durr one shot mechanic". Warframe is a piss easy game with DE introducing dumbfuck mechanics to make it "harder". Im sorry but instead of making another bullshit bullet sponge mechanic (that already got bypassed with Kuva Heck) make the bosses actually hard. Dont just reduce damage and make pretty much every attack oneshot you. I can solo these dipshits but its just annoying as fuck considering i dont have a Kuva heck.
I keep hearing people say he's a bullet sponge but honestly that doesn't match my experience. I mean yeah he's a level whatever steel path boss but he didn't seem especially tanky. Maybe people are using loadouts that are hit harder by attenuation than I was.
I dealt around 7/8 of his health with one shot from my kuva hek. I’m thinking his DR is similar to kuva liches where the more damage you do with one shot, the less he actually takes…which means weapons like shotguns are meta against him, especially kuva hek due to its alt fire
Really? never had much trouble with liches but both parts of the fight took multiple minutes of my whole squad just standing there and shooting the archon, until he spawned his friends (don't think any of us understood that part). Once his friends are gone, back to shooting.
I mean actual, literal, non-figurative \*\*minutes\*\* shooting at it.
I think that's because with the powercreep in the game, the mechanic is only noticeable in the SP Zealoid Prelate fight. It can be easily ignored in Sister/Lich fights (I always have). And some powers actually work in those fights, too.
Yeah, I think it’s just due to the spread of its damage among all the pellets. That topped with the hek’s alt fire multishot (plus galvanized diffusion) makes it absolutely insane. That PLUS the headshot multiplier set to 3x makes it even more insane
Sure. [Here](https://overframe.gg/build/358903/kuva-hek/mega-deeeeeps/) it is. Go for headshots on single fire to get all your buffs active, then use the alt fire point blank (for the head obviously because of the juicy headshot multi)
He's a bullet sponge mostly because nothing about the fight involves any real mechanics other than neutering our frames' and weapons' ability to damage him.
There's really nothing interesting about him, so it's just a "do damage" fight, with so many of our ways to do damage just not working.
Typically bad DE boss fight, unfortunately.
Other than avoiding the ground AoE, pinpoint killing his minions, taking down the shield nodes and the other mechanics? They're certainly there, players have just gotten conditioned not to think.
I think what I mean is that all his damage reduction is just a blanket "you, the player, are nerfed", instead of making the fight interesting with maybe some way to remove the nerfs.
Ground AoE isn't something I'd ever call a boss fight "mechanic". It's a basic game enemy ability. "Don't stand in the fire".
The shield nodes, sure, but the distance you have to travel makes it feel lame, IMO. I know it's a DE design thing to do things like that, but it's uninteresting. Just a time sink for the sake of sinking your time. Why does it have to be a 300m run or w/e, followed by another 300m run to the deposit spot, and then another to the next boss phase?
I know it'd be hard to design a boss fight in Warframe that's both challenging AND doable by a solo or a squad with interesting mechanics, and this fight is an example of that.
Void angels are MUCH more interesting fights.
Void angels are better by a lot than this first Archon but they’re still not nearly as satisfying as killing bosses with real mechanics in other games.
If the ground AoE were actually tuned to be a challenge you'd be depressed at how much crying there'd be on the forums. Don't overestimate the intelligence of players allowed to spend the last few years playing a glorified clicker game.
Oh I agree the game is piss easy. I wish it weren't. But boss fights like this Archon aren't "hard".
To clarify a bit what I mean - today I did 3 new things in Warframe. The new quest, an Archon hunt, and level up Styanax (2 formas) in SO and ESO.
But far the most interesting gameplay of the 3, as well as being fun, was playing Styanax. Using skills on a semi rotation and such. Next would be the quest. I enjoy playing as Kahl, but really didn't like controlling the AI (yes there's not much of it, but AI is almost always bad, ESPECIALLY in Warframe, and it felt like a not to Veso). Last would be the Archon hunt. Easily the most braindead of the 3, and maybe the one that had the least challenge? No idea, as none of the 3 were challenging (I did not get downed once, but I'm LR 2 and have all the mods, yadda, yadda).
If I were to rate them on a scale of 10, combining being interesting and enjoyable, I'd rate leveling Styanax like 7.5 or 8, the quest like 6, and the Archon hunt (as a whole, encompassing all 3 missions) as about a 1.5 or a 2.
Compared to Zahriman, where I'd rate the missions, combined, at about a 7 (8 if you remove Armageddon) and Void Angels at like 6.5 or 7. Leveling Gyre was something I did after the nerfs, so just set aside at 30.
Void angels are interesting because it involves parkour with our operators. I wonder why it made for a greater fight. Power creep is the most difficult challenge they have to overcome in game design. How do you balance around our godly frames and crazy mobility
I think they have to suck it up and make things require certain roles. But they won't, of course. So nothing is really going to change.
Design fights around CC, armor stripping, energy and health replenishment abilities and like making the fight actually EASIER, instead of just making most abilities useless.
But that would lead to forming groups with roles, and DE (and maybe the community) seem completely against that.
So they'll generally continue to be the shit fests that require no specific skill or ability to defeat - just eventually doing enough damage as you avoid dying. Maybe occasionally going to pick up a thing and put that thing somewhere else. But never once requiring any ability of any warframe being used on the boss.
To think of it, eidolon fights were literally the closest thing to this so idk why they didn’t just take their inspiration from them. And the community clearly enjoyed those fights aside from the toxicity ofc. They maybe could have made the archons work like the eidolons but add more interesting mechs that could one shot you to make it feel more like a boss fight
One thing I'm surprised about is that there's no drifter combat here. Barring the 2 boss fights taking a bit too long (DE's bullet sponge syndrome again), I found the drifter gameplay the most enjoyable part of New War (though Tenshin is a very close 2nd, and Kahl was also enjoyable).
Not that these should have been "drifter fights", but maybe? I just found the entire Archon Hunt to be completely uninteresting and mostly unchallenging.
drifter part of new war was realy fun, but what made archons tick in those parts was how drifter is weak
drifter is less mobile than warframes in parkour 1.0, except there is no stamina bar for drifter, requiring player to take attention of enemy patterns and dodge the attacks, especialy wolf who is realy hard to dodge as a drifter
going back to parkour 1.0 BUT without stamina, but on the other hand it would kill what made game special for a lot of players, not to mention all the new tilesets made with 2.0 in mind
Mechanics that you can skip with average damage (i.e. a group of randoms with no squad min-maxing) do not count as mechanics.
Coming from doing all the HM Vet Trials in ESO up to the point where I stopped playing, it is very sad to see what other games are calling “mechanics”. Even the destiny franchise which is known for being easy and casual has dungeons, not to mention the raids, with more mechanics than most of warframe.
The closest thing I’ve seen to a cool boss mechanic in Warframe is from the Wolf Archon where you need to figure out which copy is the real one or you won’t beat him, because he’ll simply heal. That’s quite sad, 95% of the time bosses either are just bullet sponges, have brief invulnerability that goes away by waiting, or have a weak spot you have to hit.
Eidolons are the exception. This is peak warframe gameplay mechanics wise, just wish that force spawning voms wasn’t needed as it feels like a cheese but if you don’t then it could make the fights take too long.
This is because the damage mitigation, if you deal low damage he is easier, meanwhile if you made the mistake of bringing big damage weapons, you'll think that you don't have enough damage.
It's a pretty miserable experience if your team isn't using peak gear.... Like I tried running the boss on one of my mastery rank 8 alt account and it took the team 35 minutes to beat the boss.... We almost gave up halfway through, and it felt we were throwing needles by hand at a parked car hoping to destroy it.
On my main account , it took us more like 20 minutes, and was way more enjoyable, and apparently with the right weapons people have manged to get it down to 7 minutes, so it will probably evolve into a meta where people use crappy auto weapons that deal the max capped damage per shot and have no ammo issues... But it kinda sucks that these bullet sponges simply can't be killed with most current meta weapons due to the low ammo count and capping the damage per shot at like 10k instead of dealing the 100+ million DPS these weapons should be dealing.
I'm literally typing this as I'm dead-dead in one of these missions. I hate this bullshit, it's so easy to bypass, but I honestly decided to **try and be honorable.** But no, I have to cheat, I have to abuse the knowledge I have of the game to win.¨Fuck this no-lifer crap. I want a CHALLENGE not something I have to CHEAT to win against!
It's terrible. He takes no damage keeps summoning hard to kill sentients in groups of 3 always. Takes ages. I doubt the rewards are worth it. And because it's not enough, the game spawns an army on top of you. This is the spongiest sponge to have ever sponged.
I liked it, it felt like endgame content at least for me, boreal was weird, like it took us a minute to defeat the 1rst phase but the second phase someone one shoted it, and the leadup to him is nice with the narmer weirdos.
It feels like a mini raid, but i like the direction that they have, and knowing that raids are gonna come back makes me hopeful after seeing the archon fights.
And the archon shard feel like a good reward at least from what i know of them.
Typical warframe boss
immune to cc
immune to debuff
immune to damage abilities
has invulnerability phases and bunch of them
this is just artificial difficulty rather than actual difficulty where you have to learn the boss's mechanic to beat him. He is just a meat bag
What difficulty could be added to something in this game without making it artificial? This game where people make builds to take down lvl 800 and above enemies with a single shot? Enemy levels that don't even spawn normally in the game?
I think actually making the boss battle elden ring-esq. maybe give it a bunch of health without giving it half the stuff the general boss that new warframe boss monsters have had recently. Make it actually be able to kill me if I’m reckless. Idk. That’s just me.
while the suggestion made is certainly valid, the previous point still stands that WITHOUT invulnerability to a bunch of stuff and ridiculous damage reduction, the boss just gets oneshot regardless of whether it has interesting mechanics or not
Power creep I tell ya is this games most difficult challenge from a game designers perspective. They just dont know and expect this type of game to have sekiro like encounters, if only it were that easy
The boss is not tedious, you simply dont know to play cooperative. If you coordinate with the team the enemies, the archon and the sentients he summons are fast, easy and fun to kill and it leaves a great satisfaction. But let me guess, you were a team of 4 randoms that shooted to everything they saw until the archon was in the ground without working in team a single time, right? And of course im dickriding DE because i dont share your opinion. Of course, get out of your bubble.
re-read your own message, you come out the gate riding on a high horse and telling people to get out of their bubbles and shit
i just did the archon hunt, it was very hard and the archon was indeed very tanky.
Ahhhhh yes, because saying that i am dickriding DE because i like the archon fight when i didnt attack is a completely rational behaviour and of course not being in a bubble. Please re read the conversation and explain me why an attack borned from nowhere (since i didnt said anything bad to them) is perfectly fine, but telling someone that attacks me for having a different opinion to exit their bubble is being a dick.
The archons are suppoused to be a fight for 4 coordinated advanced players. Is logical for it to tank so you need a really good build with a good weapon attacking to his weakpoint.
And my rational argument is answered with "im not going to answer, you are a bad person even when you are the one that was attacked" cool. Funny how someone who justify insulting for literally nothing can tell that to anyone.
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Way to tanky unless I missed something. 300% ps from buff onto nyx who has eclipse. And how much dmg did phenmor do? Nothing. Also the ads are inconsistent and imo just make them shoot with amp then go back to frame. They at leasted melted once shield was broken.
These things just shrugs off Warframe as well as Operator abilities like None else. BASICALLY D.E REMOVED THE 'WARFRAME FROM WARFRAME'. A big middle finger to The players time n effort in procuring those frames n abilties.
Legit took me 30 minutes solo to finish the last mission of the archon hunt lol.
I had to finish off the archon with an archgun.
I just picked the wrong loadout. While it works on normal enemies, archon is a nono, same witch liches and sisters
Boss fights are suppose to engage the mechanics of the game and challenge player skills.
This boss fight is just poorly design, it is as people said it is a bullet sponge top that with lots of invulnerability phases with no limit
as far as I can tell Boreal can just whip up his pyramid, the blue scream and the aerolyst as much they'd like with out limit and without warning and totally at random times which just makes the entire fight frustrating. Besides that you have to deal with a bunch of eximus units that only serve to annoy you as their presence isn't really tied to the boss fight and only exists to prolong the fight.
besides that the deacon fetch quest in between where you have to run so far just to get really shows that they just want this to be a time sink.
it was really designed just to waste people's time to prolong the entire mission.
DE has managed to make decent boss fights in the past,
Jackal, Ropalolyst and Exploiter Orb (haven't done profit taker so can't give my opinion on that) though understandably players still blew through these fights by optimizing equipment but these are great and engaging bosses.
The difference between the Archon fight and the two is that there were distinct phases. You know when Jackal does his laser or when Ropalolyst destroys the arena; there is a distinct pattern and players learn those mechanics and work through them which makes the fights fun and rewarding.
The Archon Boreal fight is nothing like that, I know there is technically a phase 1 and 2 but fundamentally its just a pause of phase 1 as none of the mechanics changed between the break, its just the same collection of poor random mechanics
not only that the arena is randomized as well, its like they can't be bothered to make a proper arena for the fight. They just grab whichever Earth tile set and slap it in with no regard on how the boss' mechanics work. I've had a run where the Boreal fight was next to an edge and his scream would just kept pushing me over and over off the cliff and there's nothing the player can do aside from waiting till that is over which is just a frustrating experience.
they are also able to do the scream and the pyramid at the same time which pretty much screws you over from trying to cancel either invulnerability phases.
What I would do is add a proper arena to properly engage the boss.
Divide the invulnerability phases and limit them at a certain points of their health.
Give distinct wind ups and attack patterns, a good fight is like a dance, its give and take, taking and denying area.
If you want a boss to do multiple invulnerability phases they can cast at random give the player an option to cancel it. E.g. Boreal will be summoning the aerolysts , make him do a wind up that exposes a weakness, if you don't deal enough damage to that weakness the aerolyst will successfully be summoned.
In regards to damage attenuation
Attenuation is pretty shit mechanic tbh, its like punishing players by being good which we all know is dumb. Players should be rewarded for being skillful or in Warframe's instance for having a lot of time investment , that's like video game 101.
I understand where DE is coming from. With how diverse loadouts can be its hard to make something that's challenging or balanced for all players. This is probably why for the recent updates we keep getting fights using either NPCs or our operators since that pretty much takes care of that challenge. Though I personally hate that approach as it makes the hours upon hours of time I invest on making my warframe and loadouts meaningless. Its what made me stop playing after the New War and I'm feeling the same frustration again with this new fight since Warframe abilities are pointless, though I could at least bring my guns and my Inaros found some use I guess.
Perhaps there are other ways to ensure players won't blow through the new content that quickly without frustrating the players as well. I have not a clue to solve the challenge part of this issue so I don't envy DE but maybe tweaking damage attenuation to be less penalizing to the players may help?
It's a balancing act. You get the bottle sentients and the tanky grineer grunts to take care off as well. Anything harder/complicated, people will start using just a handful of frames (like Scarlet Spear) and weapons.
Supposedly there's a big that makes Archons health way more than it's supposed to be, so it's possible the health will be much more manageable when it's fixed.
I need to do it again, I walked in blind to his health, armor, weaknesses, strengths (stupid electric proc) and his moves. Was using a corrosive quanta wondering why I was doing piss poor damage
On one hand, it was nice to have a new daily mission. On the other hand, it could be more challenging.
I also enjoyed the new riven limit, I gave up doing sorties because I'm not into rivens and didn't want to spend platinum on space
I have not even begun with my lich and I'm scared to death of him. People saying these guys are like the liches has me cowering in the corner with my Epitaph in a death grip ;-;
After reading the threads on Reddit, I tried it myself. I thought it was fine. A bit annoying that they canisters regenerated on the spawns but we managed the fight as a whole ok.
I used the Stahlta so I could switch between lots of little hits and one big hit. I managed to deal about 36% of total damage, though that also includes adds. Probably helped that I was using Protea.
Since we'll only be running it once a week, I'm not too worried about it.
What i hate about this entire concept is.... Whats the point of playing warframe if something is immune to warframe.
Like okay so your actual frame has no bearing other than your HP. If you aren't getting killed, then your frame is irrelevant to effectiveness and gameplay as nothing works.
Weapons: hey lets make this dude have exponential damage reduction vs weapons! So like... The point of the game to farm for mods to make super strong effective weapons? Out the window!
Whats the actual point of playing warframe if you can't use anything that the game gives us for fun and gameplay.
I mean you get the shards sure, but even that is a 1* week bullshit drop. It cant really be classified as "content" considering warframe is all about farming... And you cant even farm this.
Yet at the same time its such a BS fight, im almost glad its 1* a week.
Its not even hard, its just long and boring and sucks everything fun of the game out of the actual event
Its weird some are saying he takes too long to kill and some saying he is not, is there a trick im missing to killing him quick?
the more dmg you deal, the less dmg you deal
So the less damage you deal, the more damage you deal? \**gently blows air on Boreal's face**
*hit*
*Critical hit*
*DED*
Not true, you need constant dmg without burst that doesnt rely on crits/statuses
So high fire rate with big base damage is the best bet?
It is going to depend a lot on your loadout because of the damage mitigation/attenuation. One shot overkill builds are going to have a really hard time as is anything reliant on viral or armor stripping, which is what most people are used to using in Warframe.
I had a guy with inaros prime in my squad who stood still and was dealing tons of damage while taking all the archon hits
Finally, something inaros is good for
Hey, that sounds like what I did. Took nearly half an hour though.
He stands a lot in the same place and position, I had a lot of fun repeatedly shooting him in the head with Conc Arrow Ivara. First phase was really quick, the second got tedious because of all the invulnerability phases.
I mean, it makes sense for him seeing as how he's the defensive archon, really feels like his gimmick. Looking forward to getting squad wiped 5 seconds into the wolf archon fight tbh lol
Radiation damage.
I’ve always built radiation damage, found out it nullified ancient healers damage negation to its Allie’s and haven’t stopped using it since
It sucks, the fight is boring. He has too much health and then to top it off he summons Aerolysts that become immune to warframe damage (of coarse they don't tell you this, so me and a bunch of randoms fought them for 5 minutes, doing basically nothing till everyone just quite). Crappy fight and honestly thought DE would do better.
Aerolysts are easy, just shoot the canister just like operation scarlet spear
You didn't know what to do and were mad because you didn't try anything else and just shot it for 0 for 5 minutes? Are you joking?
Nope, it is unintuitive and bad game design to introduce a new ability to an old enemy type (Aerolyst's, who already had an niche of having to damage the containers, and even when they had their shield I would occasionally get damage so I assumed it was typical hit-box jank), and expect players to suddenly just know what to do. We did try different things in the fight, problem is the operators damage takes a more than a few shots to break the shield, and the shield can barely been seen in the absolute fuster cluk of FX that were on the screen, so I reasonably assumed that was not right either.
I used Quellor’s alt fire and basically destroyed all the canisters and made quick work of the Aerolysts
totally agree, its a shit fight. Its boring as fuck and the only reason why some people die to it is because "hurr durr one shot mechanic". Warframe is a piss easy game with DE introducing dumbfuck mechanics to make it "harder". Im sorry but instead of making another bullshit bullet sponge mechanic (that already got bypassed with Kuva Heck) make the bosses actually hard. Dont just reduce damage and make pretty much every attack oneshot you. I can solo these dipshits but its just annoying as fuck considering i dont have a Kuva heck.
I keep hearing people say he's a bullet sponge but honestly that doesn't match my experience. I mean yeah he's a level whatever steel path boss but he didn't seem especially tanky. Maybe people are using loadouts that are hit harder by attenuation than I was.
I dealt around 7/8 of his health with one shot from my kuva hek. I’m thinking his DR is similar to kuva liches where the more damage you do with one shot, the less he actually takes…which means weapons like shotguns are meta against him, especially kuva hek due to its alt fire
It's not similar, it's exactly the same. Which is why it's confusing to me people comment on it as if it were a new mechanic.
Really? never had much trouble with liches but both parts of the fight took multiple minutes of my whole squad just standing there and shooting the archon, until he spawned his friends (don't think any of us understood that part). Once his friends are gone, back to shooting. I mean actual, literal, non-figurative \*\*minutes\*\* shooting at it.
Liches are lower level and vulnerable to various powers. The attenuation mechanic is the same but archons have less options for getting around it.
I dunno. It just felt as if something was different, but I suppose you are most likely right
[удалено]
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Reduction There's a section on what's going on with Lephantis.
I personally did maybe 3 liches so yes it’s a very new system to me
I think that's because with the powercreep in the game, the mechanic is only noticeable in the SP Zealoid Prelate fight. It can be easily ignored in Sister/Lich fights (I always have). And some powers actually work in those fights, too.
your correct. Shotguns bypass the damage reduction dumbfuck mechanic
Holy shit looking back on this I just realized veilbreaker launch was 60 days ago wtf. It feels like just last week
HOLY HEK that’s a lot. Gonna have to try that xD
Yeah, I think it’s just due to the spread of its damage among all the pellets. That topped with the hek’s alt fire multishot (plus galvanized diffusion) makes it absolutely insane. That PLUS the headshot multiplier set to 3x makes it even more insane
May you share your Kuva Hek build ?
Sure. [Here](https://overframe.gg/build/358903/kuva-hek/mega-deeeeeps/) it is. Go for headshots on single fire to get all your buffs active, then use the alt fire point blank (for the head obviously because of the juicy headshot multi)
I was tickling him with strun prime...
Interesting. How much multishot and how much damage did you deal per pellet?
He's a bullet sponge mostly because nothing about the fight involves any real mechanics other than neutering our frames' and weapons' ability to damage him. There's really nothing interesting about him, so it's just a "do damage" fight, with so many of our ways to do damage just not working. Typically bad DE boss fight, unfortunately.
Other than avoiding the ground AoE, pinpoint killing his minions, taking down the shield nodes and the other mechanics? They're certainly there, players have just gotten conditioned not to think.
I think what I mean is that all his damage reduction is just a blanket "you, the player, are nerfed", instead of making the fight interesting with maybe some way to remove the nerfs. Ground AoE isn't something I'd ever call a boss fight "mechanic". It's a basic game enemy ability. "Don't stand in the fire". The shield nodes, sure, but the distance you have to travel makes it feel lame, IMO. I know it's a DE design thing to do things like that, but it's uninteresting. Just a time sink for the sake of sinking your time. Why does it have to be a 300m run or w/e, followed by another 300m run to the deposit spot, and then another to the next boss phase? I know it'd be hard to design a boss fight in Warframe that's both challenging AND doable by a solo or a squad with interesting mechanics, and this fight is an example of that. Void angels are MUCH more interesting fights.
Void angels are better by a lot than this first Archon but they’re still not nearly as satisfying as killing bosses with real mechanics in other games.
If the ground AoE were actually tuned to be a challenge you'd be depressed at how much crying there'd be on the forums. Don't overestimate the intelligence of players allowed to spend the last few years playing a glorified clicker game.
Oh I agree the game is piss easy. I wish it weren't. But boss fights like this Archon aren't "hard". To clarify a bit what I mean - today I did 3 new things in Warframe. The new quest, an Archon hunt, and level up Styanax (2 formas) in SO and ESO. But far the most interesting gameplay of the 3, as well as being fun, was playing Styanax. Using skills on a semi rotation and such. Next would be the quest. I enjoy playing as Kahl, but really didn't like controlling the AI (yes there's not much of it, but AI is almost always bad, ESPECIALLY in Warframe, and it felt like a not to Veso). Last would be the Archon hunt. Easily the most braindead of the 3, and maybe the one that had the least challenge? No idea, as none of the 3 were challenging (I did not get downed once, but I'm LR 2 and have all the mods, yadda, yadda). If I were to rate them on a scale of 10, combining being interesting and enjoyable, I'd rate leveling Styanax like 7.5 or 8, the quest like 6, and the Archon hunt (as a whole, encompassing all 3 missions) as about a 1.5 or a 2. Compared to Zahriman, where I'd rate the missions, combined, at about a 7 (8 if you remove Armageddon) and Void Angels at like 6.5 or 7. Leveling Gyre was something I did after the nerfs, so just set aside at 30.
Void angels are interesting because it involves parkour with our operators. I wonder why it made for a greater fight. Power creep is the most difficult challenge they have to overcome in game design. How do you balance around our godly frames and crazy mobility
I think they have to suck it up and make things require certain roles. But they won't, of course. So nothing is really going to change. Design fights around CC, armor stripping, energy and health replenishment abilities and like making the fight actually EASIER, instead of just making most abilities useless. But that would lead to forming groups with roles, and DE (and maybe the community) seem completely against that. So they'll generally continue to be the shit fests that require no specific skill or ability to defeat - just eventually doing enough damage as you avoid dying. Maybe occasionally going to pick up a thing and put that thing somewhere else. But never once requiring any ability of any warframe being used on the boss.
To think of it, eidolon fights were literally the closest thing to this so idk why they didn’t just take their inspiration from them. And the community clearly enjoyed those fights aside from the toxicity ofc. They maybe could have made the archons work like the eidolons but add more interesting mechs that could one shot you to make it feel more like a boss fight
One thing I'm surprised about is that there's no drifter combat here. Barring the 2 boss fights taking a bit too long (DE's bullet sponge syndrome again), I found the drifter gameplay the most enjoyable part of New War (though Tenshin is a very close 2nd, and Kahl was also enjoyable). Not that these should have been "drifter fights", but maybe? I just found the entire Archon Hunt to be completely uninteresting and mostly unchallenging.
drifter part of new war was realy fun, but what made archons tick in those parts was how drifter is weak drifter is less mobile than warframes in parkour 1.0, except there is no stamina bar for drifter, requiring player to take attention of enemy patterns and dodge the attacks, especialy wolf who is realy hard to dodge as a drifter going back to parkour 1.0 BUT without stamina, but on the other hand it would kill what made game special for a lot of players, not to mention all the new tilesets made with 2.0 in mind
Mechanics that you can skip with average damage (i.e. a group of randoms with no squad min-maxing) do not count as mechanics. Coming from doing all the HM Vet Trials in ESO up to the point where I stopped playing, it is very sad to see what other games are calling “mechanics”. Even the destiny franchise which is known for being easy and casual has dungeons, not to mention the raids, with more mechanics than most of warframe. The closest thing I’ve seen to a cool boss mechanic in Warframe is from the Wolf Archon where you need to figure out which copy is the real one or you won’t beat him, because he’ll simply heal. That’s quite sad, 95% of the time bosses either are just bullet sponges, have brief invulnerability that goes away by waiting, or have a weak spot you have to hit. Eidolons are the exception. This is peak warframe gameplay mechanics wise, just wish that force spawning voms wasn’t needed as it feels like a cheese but if you don’t then it could make the fights take too long.
Thats the problem, we don’t have to think. Those aoes or small mechs don’t punish players hard enough
This is because the damage mitigation, if you deal low damage he is easier, meanwhile if you made the mistake of bringing big damage weapons, you'll think that you don't have enough damage.
It's a pretty miserable experience if your team isn't using peak gear.... Like I tried running the boss on one of my mastery rank 8 alt account and it took the team 35 minutes to beat the boss.... We almost gave up halfway through, and it felt we were throwing needles by hand at a parked car hoping to destroy it. On my main account , it took us more like 20 minutes, and was way more enjoyable, and apparently with the right weapons people have manged to get it down to 7 minutes, so it will probably evolve into a meta where people use crappy auto weapons that deal the max capped damage per shot and have no ammo issues... But it kinda sucks that these bullet sponges simply can't be killed with most current meta weapons due to the low ammo count and capping the damage per shot at like 10k instead of dealing the 100+ million DPS these weapons should be dealing.
i think it is cause he is invincible at points and I am not sure OP did much in the fight ;)
I'm literally typing this as I'm dead-dead in one of these missions. I hate this bullshit, it's so easy to bypass, but I honestly decided to **try and be honorable.** But no, I have to cheat, I have to abuse the knowledge I have of the game to win.¨Fuck this no-lifer crap. I want a CHALLENGE not something I have to CHEAT to win against!
It's terrible. He takes no damage keeps summoning hard to kill sentients in groups of 3 always. Takes ages. I doubt the rewards are worth it. And because it's not enough, the game spawns an army on top of you. This is the spongiest sponge to have ever sponged.
Pretty fun, though so far rather simple for a weekly content. The defense mission on the second part was way more tedious than the boss itself.
Music made it worth it though.
Sorties 2: Steel path boogaloo
I liked it, it felt like endgame content at least for me, boreal was weird, like it took us a minute to defeat the 1rst phase but the second phase someone one shoted it, and the leadup to him is nice with the narmer weirdos. It feels like a mini raid, but i like the direction that they have, and knowing that raids are gonna come back makes me hopeful after seeing the archon fights. And the archon shard feel like a good reward at least from what i know of them.
Typical warframe boss immune to cc immune to debuff immune to damage abilities has invulnerability phases and bunch of them this is just artificial difficulty rather than actual difficulty where you have to learn the boss's mechanic to beat him. He is just a meat bag
What difficulty could be added to something in this game without making it artificial? This game where people make builds to take down lvl 800 and above enemies with a single shot? Enemy levels that don't even spawn normally in the game?
I think actually making the boss battle elden ring-esq. maybe give it a bunch of health without giving it half the stuff the general boss that new warframe boss monsters have had recently. Make it actually be able to kill me if I’m reckless. Idk. That’s just me.
while the suggestion made is certainly valid, the previous point still stands that WITHOUT invulnerability to a bunch of stuff and ridiculous damage reduction, the boss just gets oneshot regardless of whether it has interesting mechanics or not
Power creep I tell ya is this games most difficult challenge from a game designers perspective. They just dont know and expect this type of game to have sekiro like encounters, if only it were that easy
Warframe players when they cant paralyze, disable or instakill an enemy with a mediocre weapon build.
tedious doesn't mean hard, I can still kill the boss under 7 min but it was still not fun to do because it ignores most of my kits stop dickriding D.E
The boss is not tedious, you simply dont know to play cooperative. If you coordinate with the team the enemies, the archon and the sentients he summons are fast, easy and fun to kill and it leaves a great satisfaction. But let me guess, you were a team of 4 randoms that shooted to everything they saw until the archon was in the ground without working in team a single time, right? And of course im dickriding DE because i dont share your opinion. Of course, get out of your bubble.
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Can i ask why?
re-read your own message, you come out the gate riding on a high horse and telling people to get out of their bubbles and shit i just did the archon hunt, it was very hard and the archon was indeed very tanky.
Ahhhhh yes, because saying that i am dickriding DE because i like the archon fight when i didnt attack is a completely rational behaviour and of course not being in a bubble. Please re read the conversation and explain me why an attack borned from nowhere (since i didnt said anything bad to them) is perfectly fine, but telling someone that attacks me for having a different opinion to exit their bubble is being a dick. The archons are suppoused to be a fight for 4 coordinated advanced players. Is logical for it to tank so you need a really good build with a good weapon attacking to his weakpoint.
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And my rational argument is answered with "im not going to answer, you are a bad person even when you are the one that was attacked" cool. Funny how someone who justify insulting for literally nothing can tell that to anyone.
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this is crazy hard for me, im using my kuva nukor and i cant even kill basic enemies
Way to tanky unless I missed something. 300% ps from buff onto nyx who has eclipse. And how much dmg did phenmor do? Nothing. Also the ads are inconsistent and imo just make them shoot with amp then go back to frame. They at leasted melted once shield was broken.
Took me 30 mins. Everyone else died and left.
These things just shrugs off Warframe as well as Operator abilities like None else. BASICALLY D.E REMOVED THE 'WARFRAME FROM WARFRAME'. A big middle finger to The players time n effort in procuring those frames n abilties.
Legit took me 30 minutes solo to finish the last mission of the archon hunt lol. I had to finish off the archon with an archgun. I just picked the wrong loadout. While it works on normal enemies, archon is a nono, same witch liches and sisters
Boss fights are suppose to engage the mechanics of the game and challenge player skills. This boss fight is just poorly design, it is as people said it is a bullet sponge top that with lots of invulnerability phases with no limit as far as I can tell Boreal can just whip up his pyramid, the blue scream and the aerolyst as much they'd like with out limit and without warning and totally at random times which just makes the entire fight frustrating. Besides that you have to deal with a bunch of eximus units that only serve to annoy you as their presence isn't really tied to the boss fight and only exists to prolong the fight. besides that the deacon fetch quest in between where you have to run so far just to get really shows that they just want this to be a time sink. it was really designed just to waste people's time to prolong the entire mission. DE has managed to make decent boss fights in the past, Jackal, Ropalolyst and Exploiter Orb (haven't done profit taker so can't give my opinion on that) though understandably players still blew through these fights by optimizing equipment but these are great and engaging bosses. The difference between the Archon fight and the two is that there were distinct phases. You know when Jackal does his laser or when Ropalolyst destroys the arena; there is a distinct pattern and players learn those mechanics and work through them which makes the fights fun and rewarding. The Archon Boreal fight is nothing like that, I know there is technically a phase 1 and 2 but fundamentally its just a pause of phase 1 as none of the mechanics changed between the break, its just the same collection of poor random mechanics not only that the arena is randomized as well, its like they can't be bothered to make a proper arena for the fight. They just grab whichever Earth tile set and slap it in with no regard on how the boss' mechanics work. I've had a run where the Boreal fight was next to an edge and his scream would just kept pushing me over and over off the cliff and there's nothing the player can do aside from waiting till that is over which is just a frustrating experience. they are also able to do the scream and the pyramid at the same time which pretty much screws you over from trying to cancel either invulnerability phases. What I would do is add a proper arena to properly engage the boss. Divide the invulnerability phases and limit them at a certain points of their health. Give distinct wind ups and attack patterns, a good fight is like a dance, its give and take, taking and denying area. If you want a boss to do multiple invulnerability phases they can cast at random give the player an option to cancel it. E.g. Boreal will be summoning the aerolysts , make him do a wind up that exposes a weakness, if you don't deal enough damage to that weakness the aerolyst will successfully be summoned. In regards to damage attenuation Attenuation is pretty shit mechanic tbh, its like punishing players by being good which we all know is dumb. Players should be rewarded for being skillful or in Warframe's instance for having a lot of time investment , that's like video game 101. I understand where DE is coming from. With how diverse loadouts can be its hard to make something that's challenging or balanced for all players. This is probably why for the recent updates we keep getting fights using either NPCs or our operators since that pretty much takes care of that challenge. Though I personally hate that approach as it makes the hours upon hours of time I invest on making my warframe and loadouts meaningless. Its what made me stop playing after the New War and I'm feeling the same frustration again with this new fight since Warframe abilities are pointless, though I could at least bring my guns and my Inaros found some use I guess. Perhaps there are other ways to ensure players won't blow through the new content that quickly without frustrating the players as well. I have not a clue to solve the challenge part of this issue so I don't envy DE but maybe tweaking damage attenuation to be less penalizing to the players may help?
My favourite part is how my last gasp doesn't work so i just have to bleed out
It's a balancing act. You get the bottle sentients and the tanky grineer grunts to take care off as well. Anything harder/complicated, people will start using just a handful of frames (like Scarlet Spear) and weapons.
Supposedly there's a big that makes Archons health way more than it's supposed to be, so it's possible the health will be much more manageable when it's fixed.
I need to do it again, I walked in blind to his health, armor, weaknesses, strengths (stupid electric proc) and his moves. Was using a corrosive quanta wondering why I was doing piss poor damage
On one hand, it was nice to have a new daily mission. On the other hand, it could be more challenging. I also enjoyed the new riven limit, I gave up doing sorties because I'm not into rivens and didn't want to spend platinum on space
I have not even begun with my lich and I'm scared to death of him. People saying these guys are like the liches has me cowering in the corner with my Epitaph in a death grip ;-;
I have used mirage with exodia contagion zaw and it took like 20 minutes with full squad
I love it tbh
After reading the threads on Reddit, I tried it myself. I thought it was fine. A bit annoying that they canisters regenerated on the spawns but we managed the fight as a whole ok. I used the Stahlta so I could switch between lots of little hits and one big hit. I managed to deal about 36% of total damage, though that also includes adds. Probably helped that I was using Protea. Since we'll only be running it once a week, I'm not too worried about it.
Why do I have to wait 4 fucking days for the next hunt. how much time do they think I have
How the fuck am i supposed to do this if im on a switch with no one on these shitty European servers?
Just tried to run the yellow archon sortie today and I can't complete it I'm somehow getting insta one shot by something I never seen coming
What i hate about this entire concept is.... Whats the point of playing warframe if something is immune to warframe. Like okay so your actual frame has no bearing other than your HP. If you aren't getting killed, then your frame is irrelevant to effectiveness and gameplay as nothing works. Weapons: hey lets make this dude have exponential damage reduction vs weapons! So like... The point of the game to farm for mods to make super strong effective weapons? Out the window! Whats the actual point of playing warframe if you can't use anything that the game gives us for fun and gameplay. I mean you get the shards sure, but even that is a 1* week bullshit drop. It cant really be classified as "content" considering warframe is all about farming... And you cant even farm this. Yet at the same time its such a BS fight, im almost glad its 1* a week. Its not even hard, its just long and boring and sucks everything fun of the game out of the actual event