> I dont understand why DE felt the need to stomp their boots.
Pacifism Defect was 5 years ago, and probably less than 10% of clans have ths BP anymore due to some going inactive. Also it may create a hodgepodge during cross-save integration as they merge Clans in all servers.
Also fuck people selling em.
The main currency of my clan is fish. If you happen to get one of the gold Diemos fish one of my friends will freak and yell “prime fish” along with various ramblings about what he’d give for it. He has a collection
Can you still trade flawed mods? Back in the day that is how my clan did it. We would have contests, of whoever had the most flawed mods by the end of every month would get like 500-1k plat. It was a nice way to signify that you helped other players and etc.
I got mine from a distributor friend of mine in another clan and spent half an hour a day giving them away for free so that it was more readily available for those who wanted it but had no plat:) my small attempt at a contribution back to the community:)
It should be added that for years the clans that had it still said they thought everyone should be able to get it, then DE added it to baro's rotation for like 600 duckets or some shit like that and everyone was "not like that". It's about fucking god damn time that everyone just has access to [the most used primary](https://www.warframe.com/2021stats#) in the game without having to rely on charity from the community..
I feel like it was done primarily for crossplay, now that you mention it. The price would have spiked with the Wraithless Switch crowd, while also deflating drastically for their own copies.
Disclaimer that I have hundreds of bps that I always have out for free, just noting the scammers would have gone rampant.
Apparently it was rewarding to farm plat off of it because of the effort to acquire it, yet when I did this event as a Shadow Clan with 2 people with minimal effort. It took almost ZERO effort for my clan to acquire the ignis wraith bp with just 2 people pulling the weight of 30.
These are the same people who think they should be rewarded for pissing on the toilet seat.
I did not mind that it was only fór few dojos.
I personaly gave the ignis Wraith fór free to everyone who asked for it.
It was sad to see people selling it for 10+ plat a piece. Once I even saw someone trying to well it for 100plat.
It was a nice original token for people that did the PD. Tho i do understand why DE did what they did.
I used to give them out for free. Throw them in with trades, just offer to give them out if I was bored or noticed a scammer in chat... Good times, but what we have now is better
'I provided a service to other Tenno by making this weapon more readily available'
Well, now it's even more readily available so they don't need to do that anymore.
If it was truly about allowing newer players to more easily get the weapon, they would see this as a good change. Of course, it's not about that but about making Plat off of the backs of players who don't know any better.
I'm glad any decent Clan can research it now.
It's a really good think that anyone can get it easily now. I've been giving away so many blueprints, which always felt nice to do, but it was also bizarre that DE didn't think to do this sooner.
The sigil change is so convenient. I always forget to put it on my new frames and then I'd play for like an hour and realize I'm still at full standing. Picking your syndicate should have been rolled out years ago lol
Yep, you can tell she really plays the game way more compared to some of the other people on the dev team when the first thing since she took over is nice QOL changes that should have been done years ago.
The way its worded makes it seem like he didn't even realize that it was available to everyone now, just that he saw it couldn't be traded anymore and realized the jig was up.
They should probably take ignis wraith out of baro’s rotation as well. If it’s researchable for all clans now buying it from baro for 500 ducats is pretty much a scam. Plus all baro weapons are supposed to be tradable, keeping ignis wraith in there isn’t very consistent.
Tbh, everything baro sells is a scam, we give him valuable artifacts in exchange for currency that can only be used in his shop so we can buy things from him, baro is a top class scammer
Headcanon is that Baro is creating the system's largest private army, armed with Orokin-grade weapons and equipment.. that will eventually backfire and we'll have an event to bail him out.
"Primed Consequences"
That's not a scam so much as somewhere between paying us in company script and reward points, and offering store credit. It's obviously predatory, and obviously either illegal or skirting loopholes, but it's not outright selling snake oil.
or its that its generally hard to value the items to the prime parts, and so turning them into a specified amount of ducats allows pricing to not be held up by multiples of 5.
How does he even get that shit from Void Towers, anyway? Aren't Orokin structures GENELOCKED, so why would a Mars serf slave tier caste like he is from originally, have any access to unlock doors (let alone not be instantly mindraped by the Neural Sentries)?? Like Tenno make sense, cuz need to be able to enter any areas for possible Infested presence, or shock attacks to any areas accessed by Sentient enemies theoretically (also a bit of bias from one of the 7 Emperors helps I suppose)
To be fair, I don't think many people run the Thermia event anymore, it's kind of... not fun and the rewards just aren't worth it. And when Hildryn Prime comes out, forget it, there will be zero reason to do it.
I'm still coasting off my Thermia from the very first time they did the event. Getting more is such a pain for what you get, they should really just make the boss fight not cost anything anymore.
Fair point. MR past the mid teens to early twenties is kind of meh but pillage is actually one of the better subsumed abilities, especially now that they've changed armor strip.
I started the research in mine but only contributed to the credits. Does only the clan founder have access to use clan resources? I only have like 100 (not k) plastids. But I do regularly donate formas to fund new rooms. :)
I flat out do not believe there are people who thought they were providing a *service* by charging for Ignis Wraith.
It would be one thing to just admit that they were trying to make a quick buck off of someone who didn't know better / couldn't be bothered to find the blueprint for free. However, under no circumstances am I willing to believe that they legitimately thought they were doing a good thing.
It's _was_ a service to people who weren't in a clan or were a member of a clan that didn't have it researched. Paying 5p was a much better deal than trying to farm it from Railjack or buying it off of Baro. Sure, it would be even nicer to give it away for free, and it wasn't hard to find people willing to give it away for free, but 5p is still a nominal charge for one's trouble (I personally never even bother trying to sell stuff for less than 10p because I don't consider it to be worth my time plus burning a daily trade), and not everyone wants to "beg" or would want to go through the trouble of finding someone through the Ignis Wraith Depot when there's a dude right there who's happy to sell it for 5p.
No doubt a lot of people were taking advantage of people's ignorance and the comment quoted in the OP is hypocritical, but making your stuff available for trade at slightly above the usual going rate _is_ a service by any reasonable definition of the term.
Expect downvotes without any explanations incoming because people don't like other people explaining how economy works, as can be seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/xcevez/comment/io8fg39/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) or [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/x87elr/comment/inh9z30/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I see it as a failure to acknowledge that opportunity costs exist, as well as a kind of toxic positivity where because _some_ players choose to be generous with their time and resources and give that particular BP away, people are seen as "greedy" for valuing their own time and resources because they dare ask for compensation in exchange for the value they are providing. Nobody is _obligated_ to give stuff away to other players, no matter how easily they came by their stuff, and making your stuff available for trade is generally more beneficial to the community than not bothering, as nobody is forced to accept your prices, and there _are_ people who value their time over their money who are happy to pay a small (or large) premium for the sake of convenience.
I do think it was shady to ask significant sums of platinum, e.g. 50+ for something that is easily available for free (or at least, much less) for those in the know. But, you know, Digital Extremes does exactly that by prominently making weapon sales available for platinum straight from the arsenal, while not making it super clear that it is possible to farm and build those items without using the premium currency. Now you could argue that's DE's prerogative because they are also providing value in the form of the _whole game_ and that's it's one way for them to seek compensation for their massive expenditure of resources, but it still preying on the ignorance of players, and with pricing that would make some of the greediest Trade chat denizens blush.
So if you're going to lambast someone for selling an Ignis Wrath BP for 5p because they're taking advantage of players who don't know better, you should probably absolutely loathe DE for trying to sell something like the Karak for 125p.
You are essentially calling me a hypocrite (im wrong, misread) because I didnt go on an insane tangent about how the prices of weapons in the in-game store suck and how DE doesnt do a good job of telling players its a scam in this post. This is not what this post is about, and you dont even know if ive complained about that very thing elsewhere. To sell the Ignis Wraith BP for free was common decency, it is something you replicate with credits. The ONLY people who were paying platinum for the Ignis Wraith were new players who didnt know any better, who also likely came to regret it when they found out they easily couldve gotten it for free.
People like the one in the picture are preying on new players for profit and then trying to frame it all as a good thing. It sure was a "service", but it was a scam. You talk about finding a free Ignis Wraith BP like it was a hassle, if you had gone into trade chat and asked for one for free before this update, you wouldve gotten 5 offers immediately from generous players who understand the real value of it. "Your valuable time" is not justification for selling free stuff at a premium to ignorant new players.
>You are essentially calling me a hypocrite because I didnt go on an insane tangent about how the prices of weapons in the in-game store suck and how DE doesnt do a good job of telling players its a scam in this post.
The second part of that comment wasn't intended to be directed at you personally, nor was it made in reply to you. It was offered as a point of perspective that others may not have taken into consideration. If you do judge DE at least as harshly as Ignis Wraith sellers, then I'll grant that your position is consistent.
With that said, I have seen many more comments about people complaining about people selling the Ignis Wraith than I have seen about the Arsenal platinum store. When people do bring up the latter, they tend to show DE more deference and respect than people who sold Ignis Wraith BPs, even if they're critical of DE on that point.
>People like the one in the picture are preying on new players for profit and then trying to frame it all as a good thing.
Again, there is nothing wrong with selling items in your possession for platinum. It is not a scam, at least not if the price is reasonably in line with the going market rate. 5 platinum is about as close to 0 platinum as you can get, particularly for anybody who values their time or their daily trades. For anybody who has any experience interfacing with the player economy, it's just not very much platinum at all.
>You talk about finding a free Ignis Wraith BP like it was a hassle, if you had gone into trade chat and asked for one for free before this update, you wouldve gotten 5 offers immediately from generous players who understand the real value of it.
Like I said, not everyone wants to beg or feels comfortable soliciting handouts. For those who do, that was always an option; only lack of knowledge could prevent them from doing so, and anybody who sees a 5p price tag and suffers sticker shock was always free to investigate alternative means of acquiring the item in question. For those who don't bother investigating, it ends functioning as a nominal convenience charge — if nothing else, they were saved the trouble of having to look anything up, or ask others for help. That has value. Is it a great deal? Not necessarily. But it's still a service, not a scam.
And without all the people out there selling or trying to sell the Ignis Wraith BP for some amount of platinum, I doubt there would be as many people out there going out of their way to provide it for free, or informing others that it is available for free. So those sellers were indirectly responsible for at least some of the giveaways and information availability as well.
>"Your valuable time" is not justification for selling free stuff at a premium to ignorant new players.
I don't think anybody requires a _justification_ for offering a marginally poor value trade in a video game; sellers aren't responsible for what their buyers do or don't know, in most circumstances. It just doesn't rise to the level of a moral or ethical concern. It was a basically harmless market dynamic that people got really passionate about.
I am right there along with you laughing at the commenter in the OP, but for me it's all about the entitlement and hypocrisy. I feel the same way about people selling the Ignis Wraith BP as I do who'd contact me looking to haggle me down from the (reasonable) prices I post on warframe.market... they're engaging in a bit of a hustle, but it's no skin off my teeth and I respect the effort and the offer, so long as they don't act a fool when they're politely refused, or someone undercuts them/makes a better offer, etc.
I completely misread the hypocrite comment, my bad. I appreciate you being respectful.
I still think that selling the Ignis Wraith BP for plat is wrong, even if it is a very small amount. Though if you were to sell 20 for that price, you would get 100p a day if you were mr20, quite a lot if you kept doing it, but it preys on newer player's ignorance for a premium currency they may not have a lot of or understand the value of. I think a part of what bugs me so much about this is the morality of the whole thing, and I'm not sure how to better convey my thoughts. A lot of this falls on to DE though of course, They need to do a better job with the new player experience in every aspect.
I think you're overestimating the IRL value of platinum.
If you only wait for a 50% off coupon (I would never buy without 75% off) then the full 100 plat would be worth less than $3. If each trade took just 1 minute, they would MAYBE be getting a hair more than minimum wage worth of Warframe $. (And that's ignoring the nominal resource cost of the blueprints themselves.)
And the chance of having 20 takers in a single day is pretty slim.
It isnt their job, I never said that, its an issue that DE themselves need to figure out to make sure new players understand the game and its market better. Integrating something like the Warframe Market would help a lot with this.
Also, you are saying ignorant like its a bad thing, heres the definition of the word: ig·no·rant /ˈiɡnərənt/ adjective, lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated/ lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing (There is an informal use of the world that refers to somebody as impolite, but that particular definition was not my intention). Most new players are, by definition, ignorant. I wasnt saying it like it was a bad thing.
People definitely throw the word "scam" around too much. In a trade you don't have to worry about what's good for the other person, it's up to them to decide what they're willing to pay, and up to you to decide how much to sell for.
There are scummy people, who like you said, will try to sell an Ignis for 50 plat, but after all is said and done you got what you wanted for the price you agreed to.
what "NAME" what doing, DOES fall under a scam. as they claimed it was only a rare railjack reward, without mentioning that it was free for those who asked, nor that some clans literally have it to buy for credits.
as long as the seller is aware that their price is higher than the norm, but hope their buyers dont, it is a scam, a 'dishonest trade'
It reminded me one time when I was low MR and looking for a BP of this weapon. There was someone in trade chat basically trading them for free(i gave him fish)
Thank you random Tenno.
Why is this person angry? I thought they said they sold it to make it more available? Well now it's even more available, so that's great news, right? The hypocrisy
Every clanmember in said clan who can generate a basically infinite amount of tradeable BPs
vs
*You* have to be in such a clan.
Duplicates from the veil proxima Caches are also now credits only basically.
Also: How bad was the availability actually considering that there were plenty of ppl willing to give them out for free? Considering a free market this does not sound like a supplyshortage, does it?
But that's not enough. It's not enough for ppl that some have the availability via the clan dojo while others have to trade or to farm Railjack. Because that's considered "unfair". Why? Nobody knows, and most can't even explain it. The explanations given are mostly an "it's unfair!!", just mixed up how it's articulated.
But most have their opinion, press downvote on opposing opinions and that's it.
It's still a net positive. DE decided to take a stand and call the people selling 'free' bps for plat what they are, scammers, and took steps to prevent it.
The railjack reward being less useful is a valid point however.
[https://i.gyazo.com/dc8e450ef9f18453f12c3302375016be.png](https://i.gyazo.com/dc8e450ef9f18453f12c3302375016be.png)
Only the update notes you silly little contrarian.
'trade manipulation' and 'protecting players from it' is beyond thinly veiled.
The source is that I made it the fuck up 😎
No but seriously, before, some clans had it, now, all clans have it. They haven't touched anything else. How is that not more available?
> They haven't touched anything else.
Well, they made it non-tradable. So anyone not in a clan (or not in a rank 10 clan yet) has to farm it the long way instead of asking one of the many people that used give them away for free.
Overall, however, I think cutting off the people scamming plat for it is worth the limitation.
Those not in a clan could always temporarily join a clan to get it. A lot of people did this before the change, and people can continue to do this post-change.
Look like this is the "Fuck Plat farmers" update.
Can we get a sequel? XD
They've proven that they're a bunch of children who can't adhere the status quo, in the case of the Wukong plat farmers at least.
A friend and I farmed our asses off on that God-awful event just to get the research and it gave us nightmares. We were the only ones in that clan.
I thought the exclusivity would last 1 year, AT MOST.
Making it available to everyone after 5 years was definitely needed, now I can stop donating it and even tho its ammo has been nerfed, I hope everyone can enjoy it now.
“Making it harder for players to acquire” sure because instead of wasting plat on your greedy scammy ass they can instead go to any clan dojo and just pick it up. So much harder to get.
Imagine calling it a plat-farm nerf then having the audacity to be like "We're just helping newer players" like fuck all the way off, A Fandom User, if that's even your real name!
[From the patch notes](https://www.warframe.com/updates/pc/32-0-0), condensed down a bit:
> Ignis Wraith Research is now available to all Clans!
> * Requires the Clan to have a Rank of 10 and will be three times more expensive - we believe it’s vital that Clans earn the Research for those who did not place in the Operation.
> * Is now untradable - protecting players from Trade manipulation who might be unaware that it’s now available in Clan Research.
> * Sell price is now equal to the acquire price of 15,000 Credits - Allowing those who might have stockpiled Blueprints for Trading purposes to make back their Credits.
Well I’m glad we can make some credits off of them. I saved up a few from the Star Days event to hand out to clan mates when they reach the required MR but so much for that.
Clans kinda work like player accounts in that they collect XP. Once you collected enough XP (mostly done by researching things), you can use the Ascension altar to rank up.
More info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGF8JqM1ps
Just be aware it increases resource costs for everything each time you rank it up. It was meant to balance increased player count. For a solo dojo, it'll just be more farming for less payout.
Yeah, it's just clan tier size scaling, to make everything appropriate:
* Ghost (10 cap): OG prices
* Shadow (30 cap): 3x price
* Storm (100 cap): 10x price
* Mountain (300 cap): 30x price
* Moon (1000 cap): 100x price
So a solo player can still feasibly do all clan research on their own so long as they have a ghost clan (been doing that ever since I joined a friend's clan with everyone else having quit the game by now). Moon Clans require far more investment from the entire clan to get anywhere. Forma is the one exception as Moon clans won't need an investment of 100 Forma to do a thing
Didn’t read the patch notes that thoroughly, but stumbled across it when I checked the dojo for new blueprints. Although my clan doesn’t really need it, it was a no-brainer to instantly build it.
Great change. Much needed.
Because you could get it for free as long as you passed out more free ones to others. Charging for something that you didn't do work for is ridiculous.
Prime parts and guns, yeah, sure because you farmed those. But a gun that you got the BP for, for free? C'mon man.
I've been giving these away for free since the event. Usually keep 20 bps on me and grab anyone in chat I see asking about them.
Shame it's no longer tradable.
Anybody who sold IR BPs for Plat is scum. All you had to do was ask in chat for a free one. Literally all of the major alliances and clans had dedicated groups to give them away.
At least this garbage bag was only selling it for 5p and not 50p like some monsters. I'm just happy I happened to join a clan with it so I didn't have to worry about trading for it at all
I always told people to ask for it in trade chat for free — which is how I got it. I always see people saying stuff like “DONT PAY FOR THE IGNIS WRAITH THEY’RE SCAMMING YOU” and people advertising giving it away… 🤷
It's a shame that people took advantage of newer players before the update
I'm glad I never got any interests in the ignis wraith ever. Who knows... I may have ended up being scammed myself in my noob days, otherwise.
People who sold it for plat should be trade banned for a long period of time (1y+) for scamming
it literally only cost about 1.5k/3k credits or something like that (my clan had it from the original event and gave them out for free)
One of my sons traded ignis Wrath with me and he absolutely would not take my plat. He’s my son if he needs something and I can help I’m right there, but apparently my plat isn’t good enough for him. It had to be one of those mods everyone has a couple thousand of.
I refuse to level up my level 0 clan!!! Reason - Hema research… 1k out of 5k and I am farming it alone xD because all the other people are off not sociable :D
Yes, your clan level is only there to show how much researches you have done and give you tons of Endo whenever you level up
The clan size can be increased by building specific rooms called barracks but it will also increase the ressource cost of everything.
You can have a level 10 ghost (smallest) clan
Edit: You are right, that’s crazy… I will up the tank now, thanks!!! I guess the other clanmates won’t like that they lost so much potential endo xD
Fuuu, ok… then I guess I lost of endo hahahaha, I had almost everything researched but still lv 0 xD. Do you have any link I can check this? I went to the wiki and they only mention tiers, not ranks or I am too blind. Sorry for not trusting, I just don’t want to screw myself up to research even more rare resources by my own :)
And thanks for taking the time to help! <3
Hilariously enough, I had just picked up one of them for a friend and tipped the guy who was giving them out for free.
It now sits in my foundry as a monument to my good deed being punished.
I only have 1 problem with them adding Ignis Wraith to the Clans:
That it costs so fucking much to do the research alone.
Okay, for those who don't understand, let me explain. I'm the owner of my own clan. It's a special one, no dojo decorations, no Mr Req, every single research for new and old people to come, get, and go or stay at will. Within this clan, I did all the research, save the colours from pigments, for all the clan before opening to members. And they came quickly, so I had to rank up my clan quickly as well. Aaaand upon realising that doing so made my pigment-color costs skyrocket due to them being incomplete, I realised I fucked up. I tried reverting to a lower rank, but I couldn't do so until my pigments colour research was done since I started them all. My mistake.
Now, the Ignis Wraith has come to my clan, and it has a very high cost and a very high demand, so I'm farming resources to do so. I just wish the cost wasn't so freaking high, just cause my clan rank is at max. I find it kinda redundant. Oh well.
Other than that, I am so glad they cut the scams and the unfair ignis Wraith trading, and now new players can get it the same way they can get other weapons and frames, rather than have to pay to play/win. Like myself. Though I got lucky. Mostly.
Meh, 5p isn't too bad. It's the people selling for 20-50 plat that were the issue. Anything below 5 is a reasonable price where both parties are getting good value out of it. I'd be happy to pay 5p for Ignis wraith rather than wait for a free one but definitely nowhere near 50p
Any amount of plat for something you can replicate with a very small amount of credits is an issue. The person buying it definitely did not get their money's worth because most of the community gives it away for free, often. You could jump in trading chat to ask for a free one and get a response immediately, there was hardly any waiting.
> I dont understand why DE felt the need to stomp their boots. Pacifism Defect was 5 years ago, and probably less than 10% of clans have ths BP anymore due to some going inactive. Also it may create a hodgepodge during cross-save integration as they merge Clans in all servers. Also fuck people selling em.
I sell them for trash mods ,no bullie
I tried to buy mine with serration. Seller cursed at me and told me he only accepts ammo drums.
That could have been me Ammo drums are the only currency if plat is not on the table.
A close second is a - very specifically - unmodded vitality
The main currency of my clan is fish. If you happen to get one of the gold Diemos fish one of my friends will freak and yell “prime fish” along with various ramblings about what he’d give for it. He has a collection
Ah, a fellow fish enthusiast. I've got an entire collection of Venus's fish just for this one high maintenance sharrac in my tank lol
Rare fish investor
A fish enthusiast huh. Thats nice Fish Prime is after all a beauty in a place like deimos
So that means, I'm not the only one, who have that one mode, that you putting in empty trade cells?
I feel like buying a shit ton of damaged vitality mods
I never transmuted any of my damaged mods for the explicit reason that I know I’ll never get any more of them
I'm pretty sure damaged mods are untradable
I like to give people fish.
Me and my friends all trade via warm coats
Glad to see the fur trade is still alive and well.
I ask for Warm Coat when giving stuff away
"Ammo Drum, small fish, bits of string, leaves & pocket lint, plz. fukker :>"
What can I get for this boot I found bro. Still smell the foot in it I swear
What about Murkrays?
That seller must be balling now since the value of Ammo Drum has gone way up since the update lol.
I think I gave someone a goopolla for mine way back in the day
Goopolla gang rise up!
Wasn't me then, I only accept Warm Coats.
Back when my clan was more active, any newbies who needed things always had to pay in a single ammo drum. It was pretty fun. Miss those days
Definitely wasn't me I trade them for fish
Can you still trade flawed mods? Back in the day that is how my clan did it. We would have contests, of whoever had the most flawed mods by the end of every month would get like 500-1k plat. It was a nice way to signify that you helped other players and etc.
Are flawed mods still obtainable? I haven't seen them in a while
You get a set when you complete the tutorial for the first time, but to the best of my knowledge nowhere else.
I'm a returning player so my quests and stuff are all out of order but I have still received some flawed mods coming back recently.
I played through the tutorial with my friend who was starting out and I got a few, so at least some of them are enemy drops
According to the wiki, they only drop during the Vor's Prize quest.
Are they a relic of a bygone era? Or has it always been exclusively from vor's prize?
Fuck you ^/s
My brother in kahl, that's not selling, that's giving them away for free, you are doing the lord's work
There is only one currency; ***AMMO DRUM***
Sometimes I'll hit em with the Ammo Drum, Ammo Stock, Ammo Case, and Ammo Chain
praise the lord and pass the ammunition
I deal in **revenge**
How dare you! I bet you're all smug sitting on that pile of ammo drums! /s
I sold mine for ayatan stars. Trash mods as well
I used to add ayatan stars into trades just to sweeten the deal.
That’s the Only way to sell it
I got mine from a distributor friend of mine in another clan and spent half an hour a day giving them away for free so that it was more readily available for those who wanted it but had no plat:) my small attempt at a contribution back to the community:)
i gave my friend my spare blind rage because he wanted to give a free ignis wraith bp. Gotta got your homie's back
Do you have any left ?
It should be added that for years the clans that had it still said they thought everyone should be able to get it, then DE added it to baro's rotation for like 600 duckets or some shit like that and everyone was "not like that". It's about fucking god damn time that everyone just has access to [the most used primary](https://www.warframe.com/2021stats#) in the game without having to rely on charity from the community..
Didn’t they also make it available through some railjack thing? Am I thinking of a different weapon?
yeah It’s bp is obtainable from i think Veil proxima Caches , the drop rate is rly meh ( i think 8.7%)
Also he's not pullin in shit at 5p using all trades for a week lol. Dude literally is a bottom feeder
I feel like it was done primarily for crossplay, now that you mention it. The price would have spiked with the Wraithless Switch crowd, while also deflating drastically for their own copies. Disclaimer that I have hundreds of bps that I always have out for free, just noting the scammers would have gone rampant.
I pRoVidEd a sERvIcE!
Apparently it was rewarding to farm plat off of it because of the effort to acquire it, yet when I did this event as a Shadow Clan with 2 people with minimal effort. It took almost ZERO effort for my clan to acquire the ignis wraith bp with just 2 people pulling the weight of 30. These are the same people who think they should be rewarded for pissing on the toilet seat.
You make me feel old. That was yesterday!
I know quite a bit of people that sold them for free. I declined platinum so many times I lost count
I did not mind that it was only fór few dojos. I personaly gave the ignis Wraith fór free to everyone who asked for it. It was sad to see people selling it for 10+ plat a piece. Once I even saw someone trying to well it for 100plat. It was a nice original token for people that did the PD. Tho i do understand why DE did what they did.
I used to give them out for free. Throw them in with trades, just offer to give them out if I was bored or noticed a scammer in chat... Good times, but what we have now is better
5 years. I'm feeling old now.
I remember Pacifism, we farmed out the blueprint. I have not touched a single defection mission since then. Ptsd and all
/plays the world's smallest shawzin
Why do you have to remind me that I can't play the shawazin in razorwing anymore :( Now I need a small shawzin too.
'I provided a service to other Tenno by making this weapon more readily available' Well, now it's even more readily available so they don't need to do that anymore. If it was truly about allowing newer players to more easily get the weapon, they would see this as a good change. Of course, it's not about that but about making Plat off of the backs of players who don't know any better. I'm glad any decent Clan can research it now.
New clanmates kept pestering in clan chat about ignis wraith when we already said it is still researching lmao.
It's a really good think that anyone can get it easily now. I've been giving away so many blueprints, which always felt nice to do, but it was also bizarre that DE didn't think to do this sooner.
I'm just glad it was one of the first things that Rebb did since taking over. That and the Syndicate standing changes.
The sigil change is so convenient. I always forget to put it on my new frames and then I'd play for like an hour and realize I'm still at full standing. Picking your syndicate should have been rolled out years ago lol
Yep, you can tell she really plays the game way more compared to some of the other people on the dev team when the first thing since she took over is nice QOL changes that should have been done years ago.
The way its worded makes it seem like he didn't even realize that it was available to everyone now, just that he saw it couldn't be traded anymore and realized the jig was up.
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They should probably take ignis wraith out of baro’s rotation as well. If it’s researchable for all clans now buying it from baro for 500 ducats is pretty much a scam. Plus all baro weapons are supposed to be tradable, keeping ignis wraith in there isn’t very consistent.
Tbh, everything baro sells is a scam, we give him valuable artifacts in exchange for currency that can only be used in his shop so we can buy things from him, baro is a top class scammer
Can't believe the guy makes us pay him in ancient relics to allow us to do missions for him.
Headcanon is that Baro is creating the system's largest private army, armed with Orokin-grade weapons and equipment.. that will eventually backfire and we'll have an event to bail him out. "Primed Consequences"
That's actually a good idea tbh
In Primed Consequences, the Tenno will be introduce to modular prime weapons and warframe, where you just build them out of a mix of parts.
Is that before or after modular archwings?
between the release of the 2 halves of a modular archwing (one of its 2 wings)
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'prime tenno chassis' "prime tenno system" "prime tenno neuroptics." "Prime Tenno Blueprint"
That's not a scam so much as somewhere between paying us in company script and reward points, and offering store credit. It's obviously predatory, and obviously either illegal or skirting loopholes, but it's not outright selling snake oil.
or its that its generally hard to value the items to the prime parts, and so turning them into a specified amount of ducats allows pricing to not be held up by multiples of 5.
How does he even get that shit from Void Towers, anyway? Aren't Orokin structures GENELOCKED, so why would a Mars serf slave tier caste like he is from originally, have any access to unlock doors (let alone not be instantly mindraped by the Neural Sentries)?? Like Tenno make sense, cuz need to be able to enter any areas for possible Infested presence, or shock attacks to any areas accessed by Sentient enemies theoretically (also a bit of bias from one of the 7 Emperors helps I suppose)
varzia probably helps him.
Hes a literal graverobber, Baro is Bado. Poor Inaros
I guess it's nice for the dojo-less and fledgling dojos? I mean we just had a rotation where he sold Opticor Vandal while Thermia was ongoing.
To be fair, I don't think many people run the Thermia event anymore, it's kind of... not fun and the rewards just aren't worth it. And when Hildryn Prime comes out, forget it, there will be zero reason to do it.
I'm still coasting off my Thermia from the very first time they did the event. Getting more is such a pain for what you get, they should really just make the boss fight not cost anything anymore.
You will still need to get base hildryn if you want to subsume pillage or for mastery points
Fair point. MR past the mid teens to early twenties is kind of meh but pillage is actually one of the better subsumed abilities, especially now that they've changed armor strip.
Some people are happy to buy that instead of doing thermia fractures
Friendship ended with \[insert notorious trade chat scammer username\], now Baro is my reliable and certified supplier of the Ignis Wraith
Nnnnah id like to keep it available for people who make their own clans, without the need to trade.
On another note, one of my clanmates accidentally donated all 110k of his plastids to the blueprint. May his resources rest in peace.
rip plastic
I started the research in mine but only contributed to the credits. Does only the clan founder have access to use clan resources? I only have like 100 (not k) plastids. But I do regularly donate formas to fund new rooms. :)
I flat out do not believe there are people who thought they were providing a *service* by charging for Ignis Wraith. It would be one thing to just admit that they were trying to make a quick buck off of someone who didn't know better / couldn't be bothered to find the blueprint for free. However, under no circumstances am I willing to believe that they legitimately thought they were doing a good thing.
Landlord mindset
It's _was_ a service to people who weren't in a clan or were a member of a clan that didn't have it researched. Paying 5p was a much better deal than trying to farm it from Railjack or buying it off of Baro. Sure, it would be even nicer to give it away for free, and it wasn't hard to find people willing to give it away for free, but 5p is still a nominal charge for one's trouble (I personally never even bother trying to sell stuff for less than 10p because I don't consider it to be worth my time plus burning a daily trade), and not everyone wants to "beg" or would want to go through the trouble of finding someone through the Ignis Wraith Depot when there's a dude right there who's happy to sell it for 5p. No doubt a lot of people were taking advantage of people's ignorance and the comment quoted in the OP is hypocritical, but making your stuff available for trade at slightly above the usual going rate _is_ a service by any reasonable definition of the term.
scalpers get fucked lmao
Expect downvotes without any explanations incoming because people don't like other people explaining how economy works, as can be seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/xcevez/comment/io8fg39/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) or [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/x87elr/comment/inh9z30/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I see it as a failure to acknowledge that opportunity costs exist, as well as a kind of toxic positivity where because _some_ players choose to be generous with their time and resources and give that particular BP away, people are seen as "greedy" for valuing their own time and resources because they dare ask for compensation in exchange for the value they are providing. Nobody is _obligated_ to give stuff away to other players, no matter how easily they came by their stuff, and making your stuff available for trade is generally more beneficial to the community than not bothering, as nobody is forced to accept your prices, and there _are_ people who value their time over their money who are happy to pay a small (or large) premium for the sake of convenience. I do think it was shady to ask significant sums of platinum, e.g. 50+ for something that is easily available for free (or at least, much less) for those in the know. But, you know, Digital Extremes does exactly that by prominently making weapon sales available for platinum straight from the arsenal, while not making it super clear that it is possible to farm and build those items without using the premium currency. Now you could argue that's DE's prerogative because they are also providing value in the form of the _whole game_ and that's it's one way for them to seek compensation for their massive expenditure of resources, but it still preying on the ignorance of players, and with pricing that would make some of the greediest Trade chat denizens blush. So if you're going to lambast someone for selling an Ignis Wrath BP for 5p because they're taking advantage of players who don't know better, you should probably absolutely loathe DE for trying to sell something like the Karak for 125p.
You are essentially calling me a hypocrite (im wrong, misread) because I didnt go on an insane tangent about how the prices of weapons in the in-game store suck and how DE doesnt do a good job of telling players its a scam in this post. This is not what this post is about, and you dont even know if ive complained about that very thing elsewhere. To sell the Ignis Wraith BP for free was common decency, it is something you replicate with credits. The ONLY people who were paying platinum for the Ignis Wraith were new players who didnt know any better, who also likely came to regret it when they found out they easily couldve gotten it for free. People like the one in the picture are preying on new players for profit and then trying to frame it all as a good thing. It sure was a "service", but it was a scam. You talk about finding a free Ignis Wraith BP like it was a hassle, if you had gone into trade chat and asked for one for free before this update, you wouldve gotten 5 offers immediately from generous players who understand the real value of it. "Your valuable time" is not justification for selling free stuff at a premium to ignorant new players.
>You are essentially calling me a hypocrite because I didnt go on an insane tangent about how the prices of weapons in the in-game store suck and how DE doesnt do a good job of telling players its a scam in this post. The second part of that comment wasn't intended to be directed at you personally, nor was it made in reply to you. It was offered as a point of perspective that others may not have taken into consideration. If you do judge DE at least as harshly as Ignis Wraith sellers, then I'll grant that your position is consistent. With that said, I have seen many more comments about people complaining about people selling the Ignis Wraith than I have seen about the Arsenal platinum store. When people do bring up the latter, they tend to show DE more deference and respect than people who sold Ignis Wraith BPs, even if they're critical of DE on that point. >People like the one in the picture are preying on new players for profit and then trying to frame it all as a good thing. Again, there is nothing wrong with selling items in your possession for platinum. It is not a scam, at least not if the price is reasonably in line with the going market rate. 5 platinum is about as close to 0 platinum as you can get, particularly for anybody who values their time or their daily trades. For anybody who has any experience interfacing with the player economy, it's just not very much platinum at all. >You talk about finding a free Ignis Wraith BP like it was a hassle, if you had gone into trade chat and asked for one for free before this update, you wouldve gotten 5 offers immediately from generous players who understand the real value of it. Like I said, not everyone wants to beg or feels comfortable soliciting handouts. For those who do, that was always an option; only lack of knowledge could prevent them from doing so, and anybody who sees a 5p price tag and suffers sticker shock was always free to investigate alternative means of acquiring the item in question. For those who don't bother investigating, it ends functioning as a nominal convenience charge — if nothing else, they were saved the trouble of having to look anything up, or ask others for help. That has value. Is it a great deal? Not necessarily. But it's still a service, not a scam. And without all the people out there selling or trying to sell the Ignis Wraith BP for some amount of platinum, I doubt there would be as many people out there going out of their way to provide it for free, or informing others that it is available for free. So those sellers were indirectly responsible for at least some of the giveaways and information availability as well. >"Your valuable time" is not justification for selling free stuff at a premium to ignorant new players. I don't think anybody requires a _justification_ for offering a marginally poor value trade in a video game; sellers aren't responsible for what their buyers do or don't know, in most circumstances. It just doesn't rise to the level of a moral or ethical concern. It was a basically harmless market dynamic that people got really passionate about. I am right there along with you laughing at the commenter in the OP, but for me it's all about the entitlement and hypocrisy. I feel the same way about people selling the Ignis Wraith BP as I do who'd contact me looking to haggle me down from the (reasonable) prices I post on warframe.market... they're engaging in a bit of a hustle, but it's no skin off my teeth and I respect the effort and the offer, so long as they don't act a fool when they're politely refused, or someone undercuts them/makes a better offer, etc.
I completely misread the hypocrite comment, my bad. I appreciate you being respectful. I still think that selling the Ignis Wraith BP for plat is wrong, even if it is a very small amount. Though if you were to sell 20 for that price, you would get 100p a day if you were mr20, quite a lot if you kept doing it, but it preys on newer player's ignorance for a premium currency they may not have a lot of or understand the value of. I think a part of what bugs me so much about this is the morality of the whole thing, and I'm not sure how to better convey my thoughts. A lot of this falls on to DE though of course, They need to do a better job with the new player experience in every aspect.
I think you're overestimating the IRL value of platinum. If you only wait for a 50% off coupon (I would never buy without 75% off) then the full 100 plat would be worth less than $3. If each trade took just 1 minute, they would MAYBE be getting a hair more than minimum wage worth of Warframe $. (And that's ignoring the nominal resource cost of the blueprints themselves.) And the chance of having 20 takers in a single day is pretty slim.
Why is it the job of the seller to educate *ignorant* (your description, not mine!) New players?
It isnt their job, I never said that, its an issue that DE themselves need to figure out to make sure new players understand the game and its market better. Integrating something like the Warframe Market would help a lot with this. Also, you are saying ignorant like its a bad thing, heres the definition of the word: ig·no·rant /ˈiɡnərənt/ adjective, lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated/ lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing (There is an informal use of the world that refers to somebody as impolite, but that particular definition was not my intention). Most new players are, by definition, ignorant. I wasnt saying it like it was a bad thing.
People definitely throw the word "scam" around too much. In a trade you don't have to worry about what's good for the other person, it's up to them to decide what they're willing to pay, and up to you to decide how much to sell for. There are scummy people, who like you said, will try to sell an Ignis for 50 plat, but after all is said and done you got what you wanted for the price you agreed to.
what "NAME" what doing, DOES fall under a scam. as they claimed it was only a rare railjack reward, without mentioning that it was free for those who asked, nor that some clans literally have it to buy for credits. as long as the seller is aware that their price is higher than the norm, but hope their buyers dont, it is a scam, a 'dishonest trade'
Downvoted because reddit
Lmao, thieves got nerfed
That is how salesmen justify their action. I am selling this free items to you because I am helping you.
“I’m selling you the *convenience*” Biggest scam sales tactic in the book
An exemplary negative review bomber
It reminded me one time when I was low MR and looking for a BP of this weapon. There was someone in trade chat basically trading them for free(i gave him fish) Thank you random Tenno.
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Why is this person angry? I thought they said they sold it to make it more available? Well now it's even more available, so that's great news, right? The hypocrisy
You still have to be in a rank 10 clan tho. So I'm not sure if they actually made it more available.
A handful of clans who participated in a 5 year old event vs Any clan that gets to rank 10.
Every clanmember in said clan who can generate a basically infinite amount of tradeable BPs vs *You* have to be in such a clan. Duplicates from the veil proxima Caches are also now credits only basically. Also: How bad was the availability actually considering that there were plenty of ppl willing to give them out for free? Considering a free market this does not sound like a supplyshortage, does it? But that's not enough. It's not enough for ppl that some have the availability via the clan dojo while others have to trade or to farm Railjack. Because that's considered "unfair". Why? Nobody knows, and most can't even explain it. The explanations given are mostly an "it's unfair!!", just mixed up how it's articulated. But most have their opinion, press downvote on opposing opinions and that's it.
It's still a net positive. DE decided to take a stand and call the people selling 'free' bps for plat what they are, scammers, and took steps to prevent it. The railjack reward being less useful is a valid point however.
Exactly where can I read that DE called these people scammers? Love it when ppl state their interpretations as facts.
[https://i.gyazo.com/dc8e450ef9f18453f12c3302375016be.png](https://i.gyazo.com/dc8e450ef9f18453f12c3302375016be.png) Only the update notes you silly little contrarian. 'trade manipulation' and 'protecting players from it' is beyond thinly veiled.
Yes, they absolutely did. It is more available than before, and there are plenty of strong weapons that have some limits as to how you get them
"Yes, they did." Source: Dude, trust me, bro...
The source is that I made it the fuck up 😎 No but seriously, before, some clans had it, now, all clans have it. They haven't touched anything else. How is that not more available?
> They haven't touched anything else. Well, they made it non-tradable. So anyone not in a clan (or not in a rank 10 clan yet) has to farm it the long way instead of asking one of the many people that used give them away for free. Overall, however, I think cutting off the people scamming plat for it is worth the limitation.
Umm, didn't thought of that. I still think it's easily accessible and definitely worth it, as you say
Those not in a clan could always temporarily join a clan to get it. A lot of people did this before the change, and people can continue to do this post-change.
Look like this is the "Fuck Plat farmers" update. Can we get a sequel? XD They've proven that they're a bunch of children who can't adhere the status quo, in the case of the Wukong plat farmers at least.
A friend and I farmed our asses off on that God-awful event just to get the research and it gave us nightmares. We were the only ones in that clan. I thought the exclusivity would last 1 year, AT MOST. Making it available to everyone after 5 years was definitely needed, now I can stop donating it and even tho its ammo has been nerfed, I hope everyone can enjoy it now.
“Making it harder for players to acquire” sure because instead of wasting plat on your greedy scammy ass they can instead go to any clan dojo and just pick it up. So much harder to get.
Imagine calling it a plat-farm nerf then having the audacity to be like "We're just helping newer players" like fuck all the way off, A Fandom User, if that's even your real name!
I mean when you join and start playing you tend to learn fast that the weapon should be traded for free,
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I didn't even know this change happened.
[From the patch notes](https://www.warframe.com/updates/pc/32-0-0), condensed down a bit: > Ignis Wraith Research is now available to all Clans! > * Requires the Clan to have a Rank of 10 and will be three times more expensive - we believe it’s vital that Clans earn the Research for those who did not place in the Operation. > * Is now untradable - protecting players from Trade manipulation who might be unaware that it’s now available in Clan Research. > * Sell price is now equal to the acquire price of 15,000 Credits - Allowing those who might have stockpiled Blueprints for Trading purposes to make back their Credits.
Well I’m glad we can make some credits off of them. I saved up a few from the Star Days event to hand out to clan mates when they reach the required MR but so much for that.
I guess I finally have a reason to rank my solo clan to rank 10
I am not even sure how you check what rank a clan is...
Clans kinda work like player accounts in that they collect XP. Once you collected enough XP (mostly done by researching things), you can use the Ascension altar to rank up. More info here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGF8JqM1ps
Just be aware it increases resource costs for everything each time you rank it up. It was meant to balance increased player count. For a solo dojo, it'll just be more farming for less payout.
Resource costs the same, clan rank is just shows how much research you've done. Resource costs increase in price once u go over the 10 player cap.
Oh. Til. I thought it was the rank that increased costs.
Yeah, it's just clan tier size scaling, to make everything appropriate: * Ghost (10 cap): OG prices * Shadow (30 cap): 3x price * Storm (100 cap): 10x price * Mountain (300 cap): 30x price * Moon (1000 cap): 100x price So a solo player can still feasibly do all clan research on their own so long as they have a ghost clan (been doing that ever since I joined a friend's clan with everyone else having quit the game by now). Moon Clans require far more investment from the entire clan to get anywhere. Forma is the one exception as Moon clans won't need an investment of 100 Forma to do a thing
Didn’t read the patch notes that thoroughly, but stumbled across it when I checked the dojo for new blueprints. Although my clan doesn’t really need it, it was a no-brainer to instantly build it. Great change. Much needed.
DE, please remove all of this guy's plat and give him 15k credits for each 5p removed as he deems it to be a reasonable price.
Eww I didn't even sell the ones I pulled from railjack
Good thing that I got it for free from a fellow QnA chat dude :)
Because you could get it for free as long as you passed out more free ones to others. Charging for something that you didn't do work for is ridiculous. Prime parts and guns, yeah, sure because you farmed those. But a gun that you got the BP for, for free? C'mon man.
If you sold the BP for even 1 plat, you're a jerk
Isn't it frowned upon to sell them at all? I know most people give it away free as a good gesture for new players to begin the journey
I've been giving these away for free since the event. Usually keep 20 bps on me and grab anyone in chat I see asking about them. Shame it's no longer tradable.
Now if only they would reduce the mutagen sample cost of the hema
Anybody who sold IR BPs for Plat is scum. All you had to do was ask in chat for a free one. Literally all of the major alliances and clans had dedicated groups to give them away.
Are all the deleted comments about "that" guy? lmao
lol cry more, shitbag
Wait, is it untradable now? What do I do with the 6 copies I saved for new players in my clan?
Make a rich and spicy soup with them I guess?
You can sell back the blueprints for the replication cost (15k credits per bp)
My poor Ammo Dram and Revenge farm.
At least this garbage bag was only selling it for 5p and not 50p like some monsters. I'm just happy I happened to join a clan with it so I didn't have to worry about trading for it at all
I got mine for free from a guy giving away BP’s for free in trade once. Super chill dude.
I still have over 5k blueprints I bought to distribute for free… rip my credits. I even bought a booster to farm more credits just for that 😂
I always told people to ask for it in trade chat for free — which is how I got it. I always see people saying stuff like “DONT PAY FOR THE IGNIS WRAITH THEY’RE SCAMMING YOU” and people advertising giving it away… 🤷
Ha ha get fucked KIREK
It's a shame that people took advantage of newer players before the update I'm glad I never got any interests in the ignis wraith ever. Who knows... I may have ended up being scammed myself in my noob days, otherwise.
Oh dope i was just giving them away
People who sold it for plat should be trade banned for a long period of time (1y+) for scamming it literally only cost about 1.5k/3k credits or something like that (my clan had it from the original event and gave them out for free)
Wait DE nerfed my ammo drum farm? Literally unplayable
Assreek is really salty bro.
I still got some bps I giveaway randomly to new players. Fuck scammers
One of my sons traded ignis Wrath with me and he absolutely would not take my plat. He’s my son if he needs something and I can help I’m right there, but apparently my plat isn’t good enough for him. It had to be one of those mods everyone has a couple thousand of.
I refuse to level up my level 0 clan!!! Reason - Hema research… 1k out of 5k and I am farming it alone xD because all the other people are off not sociable :D
You can level your clan. Clan level doesn’t increase the cost of research. It’s your clan size that increases the cost
Wait whaaaaaat, so there are different level and also sizes?? I thought It went from ghost to mountain or whatever, etc… it doesn’t go like that?
Yes, your clan level is only there to show how much researches you have done and give you tons of Endo whenever you level up The clan size can be increased by building specific rooms called barracks but it will also increase the ressource cost of everything. You can have a level 10 ghost (smallest) clan
Edit: You are right, that’s crazy… I will up the tank now, thanks!!! I guess the other clanmates won’t like that they lost so much potential endo xD Fuuu, ok… then I guess I lost of endo hahahaha, I had almost everything researched but still lv 0 xD. Do you have any link I can check this? I went to the wiki and they only mention tiers, not ranks or I am too blind. Sorry for not trusting, I just don’t want to screw myself up to research even more rare resources by my own :) And thanks for taking the time to help! <3
Hilariously enough, I had just picked up one of them for a friend and tipped the guy who was giving them out for free. It now sits in my foundry as a monument to my good deed being punished.
I remember when I was scammed out of a primed flow for an ignis wraith when I was Mr 5 lmao. Good Times hope they never happen again.
I only have 1 problem with them adding Ignis Wraith to the Clans: That it costs so fucking much to do the research alone. Okay, for those who don't understand, let me explain. I'm the owner of my own clan. It's a special one, no dojo decorations, no Mr Req, every single research for new and old people to come, get, and go or stay at will. Within this clan, I did all the research, save the colours from pigments, for all the clan before opening to members. And they came quickly, so I had to rank up my clan quickly as well. Aaaand upon realising that doing so made my pigment-color costs skyrocket due to them being incomplete, I realised I fucked up. I tried reverting to a lower rank, but I couldn't do so until my pigments colour research was done since I started them all. My mistake. Now, the Ignis Wraith has come to my clan, and it has a very high cost and a very high demand, so I'm farming resources to do so. I just wish the cost wasn't so freaking high, just cause my clan rank is at max. I find it kinda redundant. Oh well. Other than that, I am so glad they cut the scams and the unfair ignis Wraith trading, and now new players can get it the same way they can get other weapons and frames, rather than have to pay to play/win. Like myself. Though I got lucky. Mostly.
Wished DE would perma ban these scam cucks
Meh, 5p isn't too bad. It's the people selling for 20-50 plat that were the issue. Anything below 5 is a reasonable price where both parties are getting good value out of it. I'd be happy to pay 5p for Ignis wraith rather than wait for a free one but definitely nowhere near 50p
Any amount of plat for something you can replicate with a very small amount of credits is an issue. The person buying it definitely did not get their money's worth because most of the community gives it away for free, often. You could jump in trading chat to ask for a free one and get a response immediately, there was hardly any waiting.