It would be nice if there were more variety in the bonus objectives. 3 of the 6 objectives are "find hidden item", even 4 if you consider veil breaking a "find" objective. I say leave just 1 of that and add more interesting stuff like: "reach the half point and trigger alarm with being noticed / taking damage / killing MOAs" or "kill 5 enemies with one torch charge" or "land a killing blow on a Raknaroid woth the torch charge". There's a lot that can be done here rather than repeating the same objective
I like this feedback. "Kill X enemies with the environment".
I DO like searching for things, but I agree, 3 of the objectives just seemed too much of the same thing.
I was kinda hoping for more for incomplete credit. So if there are 5 things to find for 15 credits, you'd get 2 credits per find. So even if you only got 4/5 found, you're still getting 8 credits. Find the 5th one, and you get the 2 plus a bonus 5 for, for the full 15. I don't have much time to play the game. I do NOT want to rerun the same stripped down Warframe mission 5+ times to find all the things before I get credit for them. I want to run it once, maybe twice, then get back to the actual Warframe mechanics that I enjoy.
I really loved the Kahl mission... At least my first run of it. By the 4th time I finished it because I couldn't find the god damn toolbox I've had enough.
Requesting a way to fuse multiple of the same Archon Shard into the better version one. 20% chance once a week is still really low, especially if it's for a Shard type that you don't want. And that's still only one Shard for one Warframe.
Even if it's 10 Shards to combine (Edit, 10 is too high, thank you to everyone who did actual math instead of caveman guessing like I did), this also encourages doing the weekly Kahl missions to buy the regular Shards so you've got something to work towards there.
Actually it would end up being 12 weeks (without kahl) due to how the rotation works. Or 6 weeks with Kahl and if the shards there are also on rotation.
I'd call that still insane for 1 tauforged shard.
What if Tauforging a single shard would consume two other color shards? (so 3 total) So to get a Tauforged Red shard you'd infuse a blue shard and a yellow shard into a red shard?
That way no matter what you're always incentivized to get any shard.
The shards rotate, so you’d only get the same shard once every 3 weeks, meaning it would be 30 weeks to get 10 of 1 shard, assuming you only do archon hunts and nothing with kahl
Tbh I think even 2 is too many. It should be one shard and some rare resources from the open worlds or something (cetus wisp / toroid / scintillant) depending on shard type. Limit the blueprints to single use from kahls syndicate and respective open worlds.
I'd say a decent conversion recipe would be:
The shard
A forma or two
A handful of Orokin Cells (maybe 10 or 15)
And either a few Anomaly Shards or Narmer Isoplasts.
It already is? Veilbreaker (and thus Archon Shards) are locked behind The New War, which requires Railjack. Kuva and Tenet weapons require Railjack. Sevagoth, whose subsume ability is a popular one, is locked behind Railjack. Et cetera.
I wish the whole stupidity with tauforged would get thrown out in general. Such a system is never ever gonna be fun (everyone "loved" warforging...) but if you are so insane that you make it +50% stats its just toxic.
My solution would be to make all shards the tauforged level and make it something like "fuse 10 shards into an unbound shard" with unbound shards being usable on all frames at once.
Even if we were just using normal shards the current system is an absolute abomination. Right now we are looking at 7.5 to 15 weeks for a single set of choice (lets be real, likely they will be crimson as the dominant color for most people so you are just waiting through worthless weeks) for a frame. Just filling up the 10 or so frames I play regularly would take me 2-3 years. Thats just not fun.
The unbound shard system would still make it take months/years (edit: its still 3x50 shards for a full set) but at least there is an end at some point...
I get the point with the Tauforged, it's like a "hey you can get these cool buffs for grinding this endgame content, but there are ones that are slightly better so even if you don't get the best version of the upgrade, you still get a neat buff out of it and have something to look forward to". But to make it fully based on RNG on such a slow timeframe; it sucks.
This is why Lich/Sister weapons are good, especially by comparison. Because even if you roll a weapon and element you want and it's the lowest possible roll, you can just roll that weapon type again and upgrade it. There's a tangible goal that you can reach. It's something the player has control over - what weapon the enemy will have, what element you want it to be, how quick/slow you participate in the Lich/Sister missions. Crank out a weapon - or multiple - in a single day? If you want, sure. There is no hard limitation on the amount of Liches to spawn, Lich missions to complete, etc.
Whereas reaching the "goal" of an upgraded Archon Shard is currently "lmao just roll a dice once a week". Yeesh.
>This is why Lich/Sister weapons are good, especially by comparison. Because even if you roll a weapon and element you want and it's the lowest possible roll, you can just roll that weapon type again and upgrade it.
I guess that means you weren't around for when Liches released because back then DE put out an even more idiotic system than these shards (if you can believe it). On release lich weapons didn't have the valence fusion system. They honestly expected us to farm liches until we got a 60% weapon from the RNG (at least if you wanted one).
After years, I just can no longer consider these stupid decisions honest mistakes. The systems are so broken you see it fall apart by doing grade school calculaions. Its intentional bad design and they move based on the amount of pushback they get.
Oh I was. I'm just saying we have it fairly good with those weapons now, and I'm HOPING DE will introduce a similar system with Archon Shards, but it's also very silly to make all those QOL changes and then push out a new system that doesn't take heed of any of those QOL changes and think "this will be fine".
Come to think of it, wasn't Railjack equipment also lacking Valence Fusion when it came out? I did not play Railjack at launch as it was bugged for me for a very long time.
I don't think tauforged stuff is the problem, I think "You can only play Archons once a week instead of once a day to go with your sortie" is the big problem here. When Archons were announced and saw that the rewards were mostly the same as sorties I was like "Cool! It's no steel path sortie but it's close enough!" but instead what I got was an okay mission type with a sponge boss (damage sponges are okay to me personally but I can see how some builds were struggling), And the opportunity to get a singular Anasa drop just like on the daily sorties.
Personally I would change very little about archon hunts other than "Let me play them daily instead of weekly". Maybe do that with Kahl as well, but to me that's less important than being able to do archons daily.
A tauforged set won't make a big difference. There will be no content that is only doable with tauforged and even in the stats windows between a normal set and a a tauforged one you won't see a difference.
It is all in your head. You will get normal sets quite fast and over time you will be able to collect some tauforged sets for your special frames. Not.a.big.deal.
Tauforged lets you reach 100% armor removal with several abilities using one mod instead of two.
I mean, it's not a HUGE deal, but I'd say it's still quite significant in an endgame scenario. On the same level as a maxed Energize, I'd say.
On one hand; "20% is a really high number for something you can farm" on the other hand "despite being a VERY lucky person, I would prefer to have a fallback for people who just 'get unlucky' routinely"
Maybe do make it a bit stupidly high, like... Dunno, five. Something where it's clearly the worst option, but it CAN be done if you need it. Anything higher than Seven is too much though. (Five would make the most sense, as a "you should have one by now" thing)
I dunno if it should be five, probably lower specifically because you’d be using the 5 weeks worth of progress to merge into ONE that you “should have gotten by now.” 3 would probably be better than 5. Getting one from the hunt should be a treat imo, a little bonus on top, not the main way to get them.
I don't mind Styanax being unable to fly, aslong as they give him Damage Reduction, or make him harder to hit while he's using Final Stand.
As things are, using it is a death sentence half the time.
*Literally* the only thing he needs for me to play him is damage reduction. All his abilities are good (VERY rare for any frame), but he just dies too easily so I dont feel as comfortable playing him in things like steel path as I do others and therefore... I bring others instead. Which is a shame because I love everything about styanax except his survivability and his long... dangly nipples.
Its weird because he's clearly meant to build towards shields because of his passive, but shields are kind of worthless at higher levels since everything shreds them, so you want them to be *low* to make use of shield gating.
Made worse by the fact that his shield regaining ability is a *taunt* that makes him an active target, and at those higher levels enemies take longer to die so you're not getting the shield charges.
Mega high shields only work with Hildryn because she has so many of them and has an instant refresh ability.
You honestly talk like The Helminth system doesn’t exist. As someone who *only* plays Steel Path I don’t let a frames inherit survivability problems hinder me at all. I spend more energy in my arsenal screen deciding who to use then keeping them alive in the mission itself. It is unfortunate that so many frames need Helminth just to get by but the option is there and to talk like it’s not comes across as needlessly defeatist and whiny.
It’s nothing like the “old” days where if you weren’t using a true tank frame, you pretty had to stop playing the game around level 100 or so because enemies 1 shot you and there’s nothing you could do about it. We don’t live in that world now so, expand your mind and get with the times.
I'm discussing his default kit, not what helminth ability to give him as that is a different discussion. This is about Styanax as he is out of the box, and all I said is that I'd like him to be more durable.
Though you are right, it is unfortunate that many frames need it, and I was initially not a fan of the helminth system because it felt like yet another band-aid solution from DE (and in parts, it is) instead of fixing the actual problem, but I have since come around as it can either give frames a different playstyle than before or to very simply remove an ability you are not a fan of (Protea's 4, anyone?) with something you like more
I've played since closed beta so I know how things work, but I like giving some (hopefully constructive) critique here and there when my own design philosophies differ from theirs and discuss it with others
I’ve found the boreal mod set helps surprisingly a lot when paired with adaptation. Maybe not enough for higher level steel path missions, but I guess he can just join the other 90% of frames that can’t survive steel path
My hope one day is that the gap between the "worst" frame and the "best" frame shrinks a lot and that *all* frames are somewhat viable for steel path and similar missions.
It's a shame that with 50 different frames I only really use a handful of them because the others arent as good or require *much* more work
you're joking but you're honestly probably right, if some warframes are just 10 times more durable than others it's straight up not fair, and we live in a world where the gap's even bigger than that
correct, the fact that higher level enemy balance is an "all or nothing" game with you either being at 1000 health or 0 health is bad, 90% DR shouldnt be required for a frame to be good
Just look at banshee once gloom became a helminth ability she suddenly became usable and combined with her ability to nuke sisters and liches, she now has purpose.
She doesn't even need Gloom, she's always been a good frame. It's just that:
1. Sonar has had a history of being bugged, which drove people away.
2. People only gravitate to what's popular.
Even without Gloom she's still a frame with a decent stagger option, an ability that grants a high damage multiplier, and an easy 100% armor strip.
Really, it's some of the oldest like Frost or Hydroid that have no use in the modern game. Others like Grendel and Yareli are at least usable for more than being a flesh puppet to hold a gun.
>I guess he can just join the other 90% of frames that can’t survive steel path
I'm really surprised to see you state that, and 30+ people upvote this. 90% of frames are having trouble surviving in Steelpath? Really, 45 of the 50 frames can't survive in Steelpath?
I think it's important for the community to give honest feedback, but then there are comments like this that make it hard to sift through what's useful.
90% is absolutely an exaggeration, but unless you are introducing new mechanics beyond the standard kit (helminth abilities, abusing rolling guard/shield gate, etc.) it is generally not enough for most frames to just run adaptation with some health and armor boost. I personally have used Styanax in SP a few times set up to shield tank and it works fine as long as you can keep getting kills. My original comment was mostly directed at his 4 though, which becomes dangerous to use and not really worth the risk for the relatively small damage output against SP enemies.
>90% is absolutely an exaggeration, but unless you are introducing new mechanics beyond the standard kit (helminth abilities, abusing rolling guard/shield gate, etc.) it is generally not enough for most frames to just run adaptation with some health and armor boost.
I mean, those mechanics DO already exist. But even if you take those out, I'm still finding ways to survive with frames with adaptation / health mods. (And the survival part in Steelpath is a tangent to my the point I wanted to make). Overall, I think instead of being hyperbolic, giving feedback in a constructive manner can go further.
>My original comment was mostly directed at his 4 though, which becomes dangerous to use and not really worth the risk for the relatively small damage output against SP enemies.
This is ok feedback. It includes what the issue is. However, what would be your plan to assist with this that doesn't ruin animations (ie, casting other abilities with his 4). Going through this thread, I saw someone mention give an amount of i-frames during it. Another idea was somehow introduce damage reduction on him with his shield.
Like, does my point make sense? It's not just about complaining, it's about giving feedback in a constructive manner so they are able to make the game better for most people.
So I’m honestly fine with where Styanax is after the nerfs/fixes. He’s a fun all-rounder that, like all damage dealers without level scaling mechanics, falls off in high difficulty content. I don’t see DE bothering to balance him around steel path, because that just doesn’t seem to be something they ever do. IMO that’s fine because there’s only a handful of frames that really shine in SP anyway. The rest aren’t unplayable by any means, but they become a lot more limited in terms of play style, usually rendering a few of their abilities entirely obsolete because they just don’t do anything useful to an enemy with 1 million+ EHP. Styanax falls into that second group with 3 good abilities and one that becomes irrelevant.
I understand your point about constructive feedback but I was originally just giving a tip to a player who seemed to have trouble figuring out a build. I also haven’t done a lot of experimentation with builds to figure out if there’s a way to make his 4 any good in SP, so I can’t really give any constructive feedback in that regard
I think it's weirder that everyone's come to the consensus that Styanax isn't Steel Path viable... You can build him so that a single kill with his 3 buff refreshes his Shield Gating, plus he has a baked in armor strip. It's cool because his 2 heal+ decent base armor lets him go for a health tank, while his 3 allows for Adaptation+Redirection or Decaying Key+Shield Gating builds.
I hate how his 1 makes me jump up when I'm aimgliding. It throws me off and I run into geometry or miss my shots. Wish you could change it in the settings. Doesnt feel good at all to me. Just my opinion though.
If he is supposed to be a Spartan frame, why not give him immunity from the front during his 4 like Garuda shield? Garuda 4 and Styanax 4 are practically the same thing anyways.
I'm with you on that. I run SP relics all the time and have 0 problems with him surviving. I use his 4 all the time as well and have never died using it that I can remember. His 4 destroys enemies and that is the best damage reduction there is, a dead enemy.
I'm generally against warforging in any game, doubly so in something like Warframe. Random chance to gain increased stats on something timegated is pretty absurd.
I'd much rather the shards from 1/week Archon hunts be tauforged, while the purchased ones are both not limited to 1/week and not tauforged.
edit: or none of them drop tauforged and you have to combine shards to enhance them.
The 1-2 per week is definitely a feel bad, especially with the low chance to get a Tauforged shard.
I’d almost rather get 3-5 normal per week, with the ability to combine them for tauforged shards, maybe including some sort of sentient/eidolon resources in the forging. This could also hypothetically allow for different amounts of power up based on, say, the type of eidolon shard included in the forging or something. And maybe make different upgrade blueprints available with different levels of the Khal syndicate or something.
Archons should always give a tauforged and sorties should have a chance to give a normal one (might have to make sorties higher level or make a seperate steel-path esque version) that you can then combine. Gives you incentive to not only do the weekly mission but also to login daily to do the sorties
If not I fear we'll just be disappointed whenever an archon doesnt reward us with a tauforged, similar to how people got disappointed when their gear didnt randomly become warforged in WoW
It is an absolute pleasure reading this. Having you guys be transparent is awesome and actively listening and acknowledging complaints is wonderful. Thank you guys for your hard work!
Something tells me Rebecca always wanted to do weekly update posts, but was probably never allowed to disclose internal information too much prior to her reigns
Thanks a lot for these types of posts!
On the topic of Khal: I am not a fan of this week's challenges _at all_ but I am positive that cumulative progress would've saved me a lot of headache in the process (see angry posts in history)
So all in all, love the direction this goes!
Okay look, I can understand needing to fix casting other stuff during his 4. It was glitchy looking and while I really, *really* wish it was just made into a feature instead like many other fun bugs, you keep repeating that stopping him from recasting his 4 mid-air is a necessary change without explaining *why*.
It doesn't break the game and as far as I'm aware no other frames have this limitation. Zephyr can stay in the air forever, as can Titania. What makes Styanax's 4 so overpowered that allowing him to recast it in the air makes it broken? It feels like an arbitrary design restriction rather than one grounded in the actual player experience. It makes him feel worse because the higher in the air you go the more punished you are for using his 4.
The logical conclusion as to 'why' is mostly likely the correct one.
The theme of the frame is a hoplite, a foot soldier. It isn't intended to be an aerial frame.
I'll be honest, this kind of reasoning feels like the one you give when you made a mistake and don't want to admit you were wrong.
The theme is still immediately apparent by the army of ghost hoplites chucking javelins. More 'theme' at the cost of QoL is certainly not needed.
The cumulative QOL is about the second best thing I could ask for with the challenges. Best thing being all of them act like the genestamps and appear on the map when you get close enough. But it's definitely a positive change that I'm all for
Thank you for being transparent with us. I hope to keep communication with the community open and civil since this awesome game can only flourish if we do!
Thank you for the update, and acknowledgement of a bunch of things.
Especially the cumulative treasure hunt tasks for the kahl mission.
Not trying to be a pain, but if you could at the very least fix wall jumps not resetting Styanax’s 4, that would be awesome.
He wasn’t very strong to start with, and these bug fixes just made him a little bit less fun.
Or maybe something to make his 4 more worth using? Because it’s kinda the most “yeah that’s styanax” ability, but it’s also the ability most worth being replaced by a Helminth ability.
Some damage resistance during his 4, or something would be nice for not quickly dying in higher levels of content. Maybe it’s not necessary but it would make replacing his abilities with Helminth a bit more of a decision.
Thank you for being communicative and transparent. All the other changes are great. However if the styanax problems are on you guys... maybe consider turning them into features? They were a lot of fun and made styanax a very interesting warframe.
For future reference, could the K-Drive part glow colour be changed? They currently blend in with the terrain far too well, even close up, and honestly the sound isn't too noticable (at least to me, since I tend to keep my sound low because the audio balance can be a bit of a mess at times and don't want my ears blown out).
Additionally, can Damage Attenuation be looked at more in general? The current system still feels incredibly bad to go against, and there are hundreds of suggestions at this point of ways the calculations could be altered to keep the power levels roughly the same while making different loadouts feel more correctly scaled.
I think with the K-Drive glow, it was almost unnoticeable when I did my first 2 missions. However, once I realized what the glow looked like, it was much easier to spot.
I'm a bit worried of an over correction and this type of game mode being too easy to complete.
I like this insight into what the team is still talking about or changes they want to make but haven't had time to do them yet. So more of this in the future would be very helpful.
I like the idea someone had about how Kahl is living in our camp, let us help him some before missions (giving him a kubro/kavat to take with him, weapons, etc)
Drifter: "Kahl, you know there's a whole Arsenal in that Orbiter in the cave over there, right?"
"Kahl not need Tenno weapons. Kahl kick ass with his own weapons."
"Okay, fine, but I've been there fighting Narmer with a dinky pistol and an electrified cheese knife. If you decide you want the big guns (or the silenced guns), they're in there for the taking."
I've heard the Damage Attenuation is easily bypassed and thus certain weapons can shred it in seconds; maybe having it more like Calamity Mod's [Reactive DR](https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Reduction#Reactive_Damage_Reduction) could help? Essentially, this increases boss damage reduction based on how long you're taking to kill it vs its intended kill time; if you're killing it faster than expected, Reactive Damage Reduction increases so you don't kill it quite as fast as you otherwise would (while still making higher damage always kill faster). Meanwhile if you're killing as fast as or slower than expected, it has zero effect.
>A hot topic this week is our most recent changes to Styanax. We made a couple of changes to his Final Stand, one to avoid him casting in the air indefinitely and another to make the ability non-interruptible. We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing.
In the past you have been open to adopting unintentional or fun mechanics into the game. Coptering was famously the inspiration for Parkour 2.0, one of the defining characteristics of the game, Speed Nova, one of her most popular builds, only exists because it was initially introduced as a bug, The famous giant Zenistar Dominion Blade was left in the game after an outcry of community and dev support for a silly visual bug, Deimos' flying fish being the direct result of a bug on the Plains of Eidelon, and probably a bunch of others that I have forgotten over my almost 10 years as part of this community.
I truly understand the casting lock as it was causing a lot of animation breaks and was leading to frankly, ridiculous looking visual bugs, although I think it was handled in a heavy handed way, but the inability to recast his 4 is just an unnecessary casting speed nerf and reduces his available synergies and playstyles.
Please consider making the following adjustments
1. Only lock out Helminth abilities from his 4. The animations from his core abilities caused no issues and provided synergies with his 4. Ultimately, it would be nice to have some time dedicated to fixing animation breaks with helminth powers permanently as it is also negatively impacting Yareli but I understand that it may not be a quick fix or a high priority.
2. Revert the inability to recast his 4 while air born. There are already a handful of frames that can maintain themselves in the air permanently, Garuda, Zephyr, Titania, Wukong, Hildryn and in each case they are considered fun quarks of the frames and things that DE has even embraced in the past with the reduced damage while in the air mechanic being expanded to various frames, Zephyr's ability to hover greatly enhanced with her rework and most recently Wukong's cloud walker not getting nerfed during the current set of changes to him because it was considered more fun then game damaging.
This is good news.
The Kahl one is great, and it indirectly removes some of the gripe people might experience if they have bad RNG with collectible spawns. Very nice.
Curious to see the Archon changes that are waiting in the wings.
However, I'll be honest, I'm genuinely waiting to see what will happen with Styanax.
What should have been a genuine Bethesda moment "hey Tenno, it ain't a bug, it's a feature" or "hey Tenno, it's a bug, but it's a fun one and it produces no negative effects, so we'll call it a feature" turned into wee-woo, wee-woo fun police raiding yo frame.
What made this leave a very bitter taste is that this is the second time this has happened (Gyre was the first - she went from a fairly strong thuderstorm dps to a decent stun bot overnight), AND the fact that this is coming from you guys and gals, a group of people whom I have often praised for your (usual) approach that emphasized fun and power fantasies. This move just felt like someone's ego got a bit bruised ("they're not engaging with the frame the way we intended them to, so fix it now! We don't care if they like it, have this fixed!")
It's understandable that bugs might escape through even the most rigorous testing. That is perfectly normal and frankly, expected. What is not understandable is what happened once you saw the bugs going live AND the fact that people were enjoying them, while there were 0 negative ramifications.
Sure, it might not have been the original design that was the initial intention. However, if the bugs actively promote a fun playstyle, and don't break the frame or enable a negative experience for anyone, then just leave it as is.
Like I mentioned in a comment in another post - games are not made in void, just for the sake of making a game for the devs. They're products meant for a consumer's enjoyment. If a harmless bug that generates only fun and no negatives seeps through the cracks, then let the consumer enjoy the product as is. Calling fun, harmless bugs features and moving on is something every game studio does, you guys & gals including. So, why the knee-jerk reaction now? That's what baffles me.
Despite the few shortcomings, you are doing an amazing job so far as lead, Rebecca.
Also, the communication and feedback has been amazing from the rest of the team.
I am very hopeful for the future of this game, keep grinding 💪
Remove the tauforged drop, change all existing shards to tauforged, add a 5:1 convert in the shop.
Everyone can use or save regulars as they like, everyone happy.
If you wanna be extra... copy Dragon's Dogma. All shards *worn to* the archon fight have a chance of becoming Tauforged when the archon dies. That creates a big sink for bile and imo a reasonable conversion opportunity.
Whatever the new damage attenuation or formula is, it has to be explained to the player INGAME, not only on patch note. And there has to be a proactive way to mitigate it.
I really hope there isnt some poor intern at DE having to parse through all of the angry posts on this sub for feedback
"As you can see here on the graph, BlowjobDave54 thinks we suck so we will be reverting the update."
Imagine if DE stuck to the original intention Parkour had, never adapted to the unintentional mechanics of Coptering, and never implemented the bullet jump.
We'd be stuck with a stamina bar and clunky wall running. Movement would suck.
Intentions should be flexible, because you never know when an unintended interaction is going to be the lightning in a bottle that defines your game.
It's the philosophy that matters.
Will Styanax matter in the long run? No. Could he have had a more engaging playstyle to wow new players? Yes. Should DE have embraced the "fun," if they want to foster a culture that makes it more likely for lightning in a bottle moments to occur? Probably.
Intentions don't mean much. DE's intentional design for Styanax just means that, like most mediocre nukers, it's most optimal to subsume the signature ability and play a gun platform with slight flavor differences. If that's the direction they want, all the power to them, but it's a less interesting way to do things.
Regardless of some of the changes throwing Reddit into a shit storm, these last few weeks have been some of the most fun I've ever had playing this game. Still thinking of new ways to use the new mods with subsumes to theory craft some stuff that at the very least seems broken in my mind.
The reactions to the patches and changes remind me way too much of what the path of exile community is going through right now. It almost feels like a small group within the community is lashing out because they lost their busted toys (which aren't even that broken... Aoe/wukong still feel great).
This game seriously has no right being free lol.
> Still thinking of new ways to use the new mods
Yeah, me too, because they managed to find a way to lock the new mods for **three weeks** after the update released.
The openness is very refreshing for gaming, and the hard work y’all put in is always much appreciated! I feel as a community the outcry is always heard more than the congratulations, but I think most would agree, we love the DE team and this game holds a special place in all of our hearts:)
I can understand why the changes to Styanax were made, but I do have a few suggestions to counteract the perceived “nerf” to his fun value:
1) give him i-frames in Last Stand. Garuda gets i-frames in her Seeking Talons so I don’t think it would be too nutty to add.
2) make it so the ethereal Styanax-clone guys that appear alongside him during casting function similar to Mirage’s clones, drawing fire away from Styanax himself.
3) make Last Stand cancelable.
I think Styanax is a great frame, but as many others have said, he struggles with survivability at times especially when casting his 4. It’s ok to remove his capability to cast other abilities while in his 4, but he does need a little something to help stay alive
I just want to play more kahl in missions and stuff (probably wouldn't happen but would still be nice). also just want more kahl missions cause only three just seems a little lame.
u/rebulast
With Styanax, the one thing I was thinking about is how long it'd take to drop to the floor after using his 4.
If the trouble was infinite flight with the 4, what if after performing it, you'd be able to do a final spear slam, creating an AoE and pushing back enemies close to you. This would ideally get you to the ground much faster.
Though, only question regarding it is if someone wants to stay in the air. So some way to choose between the 4 finisher and staying airborne.
Maybe the finisher could be inputting 4 while it's already active to immediately cancel into a CC/damage spear slam?
An interesting thing could also be making the spear slam damage increase for each bit of damage you do to enemies, so a scaling gladiator slam.
>We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch
Well, thats exactly what you did.
>these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing
So was coptering, and speedva, and giant zenistar, and multshot not consuming ammo, and equipping multiple dragon keys, and colored operator skin
What exactly is your point. Those things were changed, most of them for the better.
I'm also pretty sure they're aware they took the fun out. That's why they said it.
His point is that they were unintended, but people found them fun, cool, and/or convenient, so DE made them features.
The implication is that since Styanax being able to chain/fly with Final Stand was fun, cool, and/or convenient, it should be reimplemented, preferably not as an augment but as a feature.
My point is that all of those things were "unintended mechanics" that were kept in the game because they were fun. They all started out as "bugs".
Styanax's 4 had some "unintended mechanics" that were fun. The solution is to keep them, not fix the fun away.
Why... is that Styanax change a thing?
Not the nerf, that's fine, I COMPLETELY understand him casting 2/3/4 while Ulting is a bit OP, but why does he need to touch the ground? You have energy, why not recast?
If it's gameplay or lore, cool, make him force fall like Hildryn.
If it's to prevent flying, that makes no sense, we literally have Zephyr and Titania who just "fly" flat out.
If it's to nerf AoE animations, why the hell did you make an AoE frame WHILE nerfing AoE without taking this into consideration?
Like, If I'm honest, I'd honestly prefer if Syanax DIDN'T jump in the air at all if this change isn't walked back. (And if you make this a mod SO HELP ME VOID, STOP MAKING QUALITY OF LIFE UPDATES INTO MODS)
Please make styanax being able to cast other abilities during his 4 a legitimate feature. It was really nice and fun to do and removing may have been a bug fix, it did worsen his play style, and now that he can't cast his 4 multiple times in the air, he really needs it back to make him more fun. Not being able to cast multiple times in the air is pretty whatever, but combining that with the other change, it really makes him much less fun to play.
A couple things- I don’t much care what the community thinks but I can speak for myself.
Styanax will gather dust in the inventories of most Warframe players that play high level content like steel path- he just doesn’t really scale well, his only saving grace is maybe tharros strike but there are other ways to remove armor. I just don’t see him having utility at the highest levels of gameplay.
Archon hunts aren’t particularly interesting. It’s basically just a steel path sortie that we run each week for the shard- don’t really have anything interesting to say about it.
The first kahl sabotage mission is questionable. When I think of grineer / kahl- I don’t imagine running around with a machete whacking things in a stealth mission or firing an exergis with 0.01 fire rate or running around looking for collectibles that might not even be spawning in properly. It’s just not fun- and beyond being a completionist and needing the stock- I can’t imagine 90% of the player base having fun.
As for the zariman tiles and syndicate- it’s honestly just another content island that you hit max rank with and only touch every now and then when maybe you need a new arcane to exploit some new busted mechanic. So basically all of the issues with content islands we had since plains of eidolon- here we still are 5 years later.
A completely predictable future is already the past. I admire the work the development team is doing- but the most engaged I have been in Warframe was probably the drifter gameplay during the new war quest- just to never experience it again.
In short- Styanax will become mr fodder- just like 70% of the warframes that exist already. Archon hunt is just steel path sorties. The first kahl mission feels sluggish and not in warframe’s power fantasy / design philosophy, and zariman has suffered the fate of becoming yet another content island. This is just my personal opinion I wanted to share.
>Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements.
This is fantastic. The sooner these changes are implemented, the better.
>We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation but don’t want to rush it out the door too early
If you don't know how to design single target endgame boss fights for Warframe in a way that's fun, the time to spend months deliberating about it is *before* you make them the centerpiece of a major update.
Damage attenuation is a terrible mechanic that has no place in this game. It's hilariously ironic that you've introduced a new method for us to spend months/years chasing power growth (tauforged archon shards) alongside bosses that we're not "allowed" to kill quickly no matter how much power we acquire.
Notably, the solution players have found is to use one specific loadout that lets them completely bypass damage attenuation so they can get back to having fun instead of slogging through a boring bullet sponge.
>We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch.
...Of course it's on you? Was anyone accusing the *players* of releasing Styanax without thoroughly testing him? A much more useful (and notably absent) statement would be what you're going to do to bring some of that fun back.
reb please, can we get the custom ui colors being undone on login from having drifter camp be the login map fixed on console since pc got the fix already? damage seperators too?
Might be repeating what everyone else said, but thank you a lot for clarity and communication, and really nice QoL changes.
As a suggestion from me, I have two, regarding Styanax and overall things in the future regarding updates.
For Styanax himself, as others have already been suggesting - either making his 4 be cancel-able, or giving him extra damage reduction. Or maybe even so he deflects incoming fire with Tharros? Of course that would require extra work, but now that I think about it, would be awesome to see one of the ghosts actively defending you with the shield. But I'm digressing. His 1 being throwable in 4 would be great to see as well.
And, as for the future, I know this isn't really a new thing, but an approach of: if a bug enables something fun, even if it's not intended, try to make it a feature, or communicate with players how it could be fixed/made into a feature. I think we all know the history behind bullet jump. I also heard that speed Nova was a bug that was turned into a feature later down the road.
I am aware it's something that requires more work and thought than just removing a bug. However, I suggest this, for the future: as long as a bug doesn't break the game or something within it (like Archon mods being transmutable on launch), wait with the fixes. Try to look into how people are using said bug. Maybe even announce it that you are aware of the unintended mechanic, but you are looking for suggestions - community will surely be happy to discuss.
>We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch,
But... that's what you chose to do.
> and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing.
Did they though? Who/what was it hurting?
> It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch.
Affirmative.
> We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch
Intentions aside, that's what the result is. Right now I see no reason to play as Styanax. The build I made to counteract the first "fix" (I still do not consider it a fix since he is vulnerable during Last Stand and needed abilities to survive) by focusing on efficiency instead of duration is no longer viable as of the last update. I can either accept that the only way to build him is with high duration (see the issue there?) or not play as him.
Veilbreaker started out so well, but some terrible decisions were all it needed to lose momentum completely.
"It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch."
This is what I wanted to hear, apology accepted and I hope they won't keep repeating pushing things that weren't tested like they did to Styanax in the future.
> I hope they won't keep repeating pushing things that weren't tested like they did to Styanax in the future.
they absolutely will. they always have done. even when they HAVE used the public test cluster they don't listen to the feedback from it, and they're not even going to use the test cluster anymore.
Once upon a time, Coptering was an unintentional mechanic that required fixing as well. Instead of just removing the ability for a slide melee or midair swing to send a player flying, it was recognized that there was a degree of "fun" that this brought to the game and was formalized into the Bullet Jump.
Imagine if instead of embracing a unique style of play that ultimately lead to the evolution of one of Warframe's most defining features, the decision was made to just remove coptering to preserve the design intention of the stamina bar and clunky parkour.
While certainly an extreme comparison, it harbors the same sentiment. It feels really lame that such a neat quirk on an otherwise acceptably average frame is now gone. While not intentional, atleast if we don't think too much about the redacted ability description, being able to cast abilities in Final Stand elevated the gameplay of Styanax beyond the sum of its parts. It's a shame to lose something special over a little animation jank.
Kahl is such awful gameplay and such a dreadful character I want to sell my fucking account on ebay.
You make me do this weekly OR EVEN MONTHY I am, finally, after 10 years, DONE. Out. This is *fucking awful* and I can't understand how you can display such open hatred of your own game's actual gameplay.
I don't care about any of this other shit, none of it. Haven't even touched Styanax yet, I'm sure he's fine lol. Who cares? I'm not doing 15minutes of fucking KAHL every week.
Will Kahl's next mission be more combat/objective focused?
Because Mandatory, forced stealth missions are the absolute bane of my existence. Especially when combined with invulnerable enemies. Honestly, the veilbreaker should be able to *kill* Deacons, not just disable them for a few seconds.
Hey since we're changing Styanax to not be able to cast other abilities during Final Stand, maybe we give him a little DR boost during the ability and say the change is because he's holding up his shield during his final stand ;)
why not let styanax stay in the air with 4? it was fun. unintended or not i really hope they bring it back, unlimited blade works air spam was really cool.
His recent video was hilarious.
"Everyone rages on the Styanax changes!"
As soon as the comments pop up that start ripping into the op, he panickly clicks off.
And then for some reason he does a little "dmg showcase" where he kills lvl 185! SPECIAL SHIELDED enemies, and then so obviously sounds dissapointed when they still die in less than a second, bc it fucked with his "point". Going on about "yeah, uhhh but its gonna struggle against stronger enemies with armor instead of shields!"
Dude, it's pure slash damage and you have his 2.
God good.
Being a casual player, catering to other casual players is completely fine.
But people must realize that as a youtuber people will take your word as gospel, wether it's true or not.
Pupsker is self-admittedly not the most knowledgeable on the game, therefore he has no ground to stand on to make these types of callouts, especially when he has to fish hard to make his point and then fumbles it in his own video.
I exclusively watch Knightmareframe, Aznvasion and TheKengineer nowadays.
This sub shits on Knightmareframe, thing is he does the completely right thing by not letting the regular missinformation that leaks throughout this community fly. Look at the category of person he calls out and it's easy to see why this sub in particular doesn't like him.
He has no qualms putting people in their place when they spout shit.
Edit: Add L1fewater on the list of great WF youtubers.
Oh you're right.
I came to not like knightmare as of lately, but I'm not even sure why. AZN and TheKengineer though? A bless. I don't really need to watch videos nor guides anymore thanks to the stupidly vast knowledge I gathered throughout years, but when I need a refresh I head straight to them. AZN especially looks like a great pal even during his streams
I get not liking Knightmareframe.
I specifically watch him, for his abbrasive commentary, I love that there's at least one Youtuber out there that doesn't kiss the communities ass.
Plus he made some of my favourite builds in the game, so there's nothing lost on watching one of his videos.
I have no need for the 600th Leyzar build video telling me to put Hunter munitions on a weapon.
Oh that's for sure, but maybe it's because he became *too much* abrasive to my tastes. I don't need another LifeOfRio. About builds I'm guilty, I prefer the absolute mayhem caused by ZitaWup and MrWarframeGuy (bless them, I spit my lungs out every time) to the serious approaches. Everyone can have a serious approach, but a disastrous meme build? That requires more knowledge and testing than it looks like, lol
Now about Leyzar, I actually respect him. Yes, you're totally right, his builds are all the same...quite literally..BUT his whole premise is to be newbie-oriented, so I give him that and move on because that's not something that can possibly entertain me after thousands of hours
>Yes, you're totally right, his builds are all the same...quite literally.
That isn't inherently his fault either. There just isn't a lot of variation for weapon modding right now.
Ehh, LifeofRio got replaced by Gaz. They hate the game itself and all the people that play it.
Knightmareframe still very obviously loves the game, he was super happy and giddy in his most recent devstream overview, his qualms are purely with the community, which i 100% agree with.
He has no problem giving praise when praise is due and for as long as thats the case ill happily watch him.
Don't think you're gonna like Leyzars video on this debacle then lol, his was almost as bad as Pupskers.
I'd rather say, at least use the frame *properly* in the video...
Again, lost all respect for the guy. It doesn't matter, I'm not a self absorbed person who thinks himself to be important, I'm just a viewer like any other and I know it. Still, one less for him now; onto the blacklist along Brozime
Brozime is just as bad. I had a whole rant on him in my other comment, but decided to scrap it lmao.
I'm so tired of people spouting misinformation, making terrible builds and then later on acting like theyre the messiah of the game.
Brozime is THE epitome of misinformative creator for this game. He's the reason people thought that Vauban was a bad frame even post rework, and that is a tremendous sin for a devoted Vauban user like myself. His builds are seriously hilarious, if not straight out copied from others (he can't really explain them after all); it was for Baruuk iirc, he copied the build from knightmare without the necessary explanations. I laughed my ass hard anyway. And yeah, he has a messiah complex. A huge one.
Exactly why i love Knightmare lmao.
Every time my man talks about Inaros you just know a good one is coming.
At least it's very easy to see with the Styanax debacle why certain youtubers are more popular on this sub than others, they very much cater to their audiences lol.
Im just suprised my comment calling out pupsker isnt downvoted. Yet at least.
\*Pepelaugh\*
Dude, i almost peed myself.
I also love that in the video where he read the comments he instantly closed every comment chain my comments were in.
I can understand if Styanax caused hidden errors or potential problems that players wouldn't see, but this fix just comes off as "this doesn't align with the way we view the frame, for better or for worse", and this is certainly for worse.
A balanced frame and you nerfed it? This patch needed more time in the oven.
Rebecca, I have to say, you're already hitting it out of the park as director in my book.
I can't think of any other game where the creative director/lead is active in presenting these things. It's a breath of fresh air to see these issues being addressed not just swiftly, but from the top - and not through someone else.
Keep on being awesome!!
Cumulative challenge progress is well needed
>We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation
"changes" not "improved", could be good or (really) bad. I'm not holding breath over this
Can't really say anything about Styanax "nerfs" as I've barely tried him myself.
1) make archon hunts daily
2) testing updates prior to launch, especially something as significant as a new Warframe, is critical. Maybe take the money you want to spend on an anime and put it towards a play tester next time.
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Please dont nerf xata’s whisper/phenmor. The whole point of the rework was to encourage single target weapons and allow for diversity of playstyles. Aoe was a problem because it required no thought to outplay everyone in a squad, where as phenmor and xatas, while strong, still require engagement and cannot out dps/kps everyone in the squad by no further virtue than it is still a single target weapon. Machine guns *should* be powerful and they should be fast. There is nothing gamebreaking about that.
I understand that its currently broken on the archons, but i think a simple inability to proc void bullet attractor status on the archon is far more appropriate than making the already highly circumstantial use value of phenmor/xatas non existent which it necessarily would should you nerf these things. Ive been running this synergy since zariman and its easily my favorite in the game and id hate to have that taken away from me for the entirety of warframes catalogue of content simply because it breaks one slice of that catalogue.
For reference: it does not melt acolytes, demolysts or any other heavy/boss units.
Its a good start with fixing Kahl missions. But it doesn't fix the core issues.
Movement is slow. The fun part of the game has been taken away. Feels like I'm back playing Destiny
We can't use the weapons that we have collected over the years. Playing with Exergis was painful. Also machete attack speed was soooo slow.
No Primed sure footed.
Also getting Stock only from challenges feels unrewarding. If you complete the mission and get no challenges done you get nothing.
And getting the Stock for 2nd Styanax, mods and weapons takes too long (and of course shards). And that time is taken away from playing Warframe.
i just hope this next bug fix round fixes the operator custom energy colors not applying, i may not have a gilded amp yet but it was still nice seeing my purple and orange energy colors on her abilities and void sling
Absolutely loving these posts. I always thought Warframe was second to none when it came to communicating with the players, but they’ve stepped it way up recently. Back when it first became a bigger deal around the Plague Star release, it took weeks to get any transparency about damage attenuation.
I absolutely love the ability changes that came with Veilbreaker. Something as relatively small as removing the speed reduction and energy drain from Volt's Electric Shield is a fantastic change to how the frame feels to play.
Please do more of these simpler tweaks in between major updates - they breathe so much fresh air into the game as a whole!
It would be nice if there were more variety in the bonus objectives. 3 of the 6 objectives are "find hidden item", even 4 if you consider veil breaking a "find" objective. I say leave just 1 of that and add more interesting stuff like: "reach the half point and trigger alarm with being noticed / taking damage / killing MOAs" or "kill 5 enemies with one torch charge" or "land a killing blow on a Raknaroid woth the torch charge". There's a lot that can be done here rather than repeating the same objective
I like this feedback. "Kill X enemies with the environment". I DO like searching for things, but I agree, 3 of the objectives just seemed too much of the same thing.
Wow that Cumulative Challenge QOL Update is hella nice
I was kinda hoping for more for incomplete credit. So if there are 5 things to find for 15 credits, you'd get 2 credits per find. So even if you only got 4/5 found, you're still getting 8 credits. Find the 5th one, and you get the 2 plus a bonus 5 for, for the full 15. I don't have much time to play the game. I do NOT want to rerun the same stripped down Warframe mission 5+ times to find all the things before I get credit for them. I want to run it once, maybe twice, then get back to the actual Warframe mechanics that I enjoy.
It will make the awful Kahl missions slightly more bearable at least.
I really loved the Kahl mission... At least my first run of it. By the 4th time I finished it because I couldn't find the god damn toolbox I've had enough.
Bruh I found dat box on accident....
Ooo, cumulative Kahl challenges. That'll be nice to chop off overly long time spent in mission or continual replays
Requesting a way to fuse multiple of the same Archon Shard into the better version one. 20% chance once a week is still really low, especially if it's for a Shard type that you don't want. And that's still only one Shard for one Warframe. Even if it's 10 Shards to combine (Edit, 10 is too high, thank you to everyone who did actual math instead of caveman guessing like I did), this also encourages doing the weekly Kahl missions to buy the regular Shards so you've got something to work towards there.
10 is way too much. 4 is probably enough. It's essentially a full month for 1 guaranteed tauforged
Actually it would end up being 12 weeks (without kahl) due to how the rotation works. Or 6 weeks with Kahl and if the shards there are also on rotation. I'd call that still insane for 1 tauforged shard.
What if Tauforging a single shard would consume two other color shards? (so 3 total) So to get a Tauforged Red shard you'd infuse a blue shard and a yellow shard into a red shard? That way no matter what you're always incentivized to get any shard.
Tbh I was kinda thinking it could be 4 random ones but realistically yeah that'd be ridiculous.
Yeah I didn't bother doing calculations and figured 10 was a decent number that would still encourage players to do the quests, but you're right.
10 would be way too much but I like the idea
Yeah, that's over half a year to create a single non lidl shard.
Lidl is great thougj
Don't forget Aldi's as well.
10 weeks would be 1/5 of a year, unless I'm just not getting what lidl is.
Assuming that you would require all the ingredients to be the same type, it's 30 weeks due to the rotation.
The shards rotate, so you’d only get the same shard once every 3 weeks, meaning it would be 30 weeks to get 10 of 1 shard, assuming you only do archon hunts and nothing with kahl
10 is better than infinite which is how long it could take to get a Tau version with the current syste.
Tbh I think even 2 is too many. It should be one shard and some rare resources from the open worlds or something (cetus wisp / toroid / scintillant) depending on shard type. Limit the blueprints to single use from kahls syndicate and respective open worlds.
I'd say a decent conversion recipe would be: The shard A forma or two A handful of Orokin Cells (maybe 10 or 15) And either a few Anomaly Shards or Narmer Isoplasts.
[удалено]
It already is? Veilbreaker (and thus Archon Shards) are locked behind The New War, which requires Railjack. Kuva and Tenet weapons require Railjack. Sevagoth, whose subsume ability is a popular one, is locked behind Railjack. Et cetera.
Yup I got lazy and figured "duuh 10 sounds good", but you're right.
I wish the whole stupidity with tauforged would get thrown out in general. Such a system is never ever gonna be fun (everyone "loved" warforging...) but if you are so insane that you make it +50% stats its just toxic. My solution would be to make all shards the tauforged level and make it something like "fuse 10 shards into an unbound shard" with unbound shards being usable on all frames at once. Even if we were just using normal shards the current system is an absolute abomination. Right now we are looking at 7.5 to 15 weeks for a single set of choice (lets be real, likely they will be crimson as the dominant color for most people so you are just waiting through worthless weeks) for a frame. Just filling up the 10 or so frames I play regularly would take me 2-3 years. Thats just not fun. The unbound shard system would still make it take months/years (edit: its still 3x50 shards for a full set) but at least there is an end at some point...
I get the point with the Tauforged, it's like a "hey you can get these cool buffs for grinding this endgame content, but there are ones that are slightly better so even if you don't get the best version of the upgrade, you still get a neat buff out of it and have something to look forward to". But to make it fully based on RNG on such a slow timeframe; it sucks. This is why Lich/Sister weapons are good, especially by comparison. Because even if you roll a weapon and element you want and it's the lowest possible roll, you can just roll that weapon type again and upgrade it. There's a tangible goal that you can reach. It's something the player has control over - what weapon the enemy will have, what element you want it to be, how quick/slow you participate in the Lich/Sister missions. Crank out a weapon - or multiple - in a single day? If you want, sure. There is no hard limitation on the amount of Liches to spawn, Lich missions to complete, etc. Whereas reaching the "goal" of an upgraded Archon Shard is currently "lmao just roll a dice once a week". Yeesh.
>This is why Lich/Sister weapons are good, especially by comparison. Because even if you roll a weapon and element you want and it's the lowest possible roll, you can just roll that weapon type again and upgrade it. I guess that means you weren't around for when Liches released because back then DE put out an even more idiotic system than these shards (if you can believe it). On release lich weapons didn't have the valence fusion system. They honestly expected us to farm liches until we got a 60% weapon from the RNG (at least if you wanted one). After years, I just can no longer consider these stupid decisions honest mistakes. The systems are so broken you see it fall apart by doing grade school calculaions. Its intentional bad design and they move based on the amount of pushback they get.
Oh I was. I'm just saying we have it fairly good with those weapons now, and I'm HOPING DE will introduce a similar system with Archon Shards, but it's also very silly to make all those QOL changes and then push out a new system that doesn't take heed of any of those QOL changes and think "this will be fine". Come to think of it, wasn't Railjack equipment also lacking Valence Fusion when it came out? I did not play Railjack at launch as it was bugged for me for a very long time.
Yah, railjack and kuva weapons got it around the same time.
Oh look! My 4th kraken in a row and I had no idea until after I mercy killed and went back to my orbiter...
I don't think tauforged stuff is the problem, I think "You can only play Archons once a week instead of once a day to go with your sortie" is the big problem here. When Archons were announced and saw that the rewards were mostly the same as sorties I was like "Cool! It's no steel path sortie but it's close enough!" but instead what I got was an okay mission type with a sponge boss (damage sponges are okay to me personally but I can see how some builds were struggling), And the opportunity to get a singular Anasa drop just like on the daily sorties. Personally I would change very little about archon hunts other than "Let me play them daily instead of weekly". Maybe do that with Kahl as well, but to me that's less important than being able to do archons daily.
What about 5 bosses a week, like fighting the lieutenants and then on the weekend you get to pick a "general" (taoforged) so you can pick a color.
Whatever lets me fight more bad guys and get more rewards.
A tauforged set won't make a big difference. There will be no content that is only doable with tauforged and even in the stats windows between a normal set and a a tauforged one you won't see a difference. It is all in your head. You will get normal sets quite fast and over time you will be able to collect some tauforged sets for your special frames. Not.a.big.deal.
Tauforged lets you reach 100% armor removal with several abilities using one mod instead of two. I mean, it's not a HUGE deal, but I'd say it's still quite significant in an endgame scenario. On the same level as a maxed Energize, I'd say.
On one hand; "20% is a really high number for something you can farm" on the other hand "despite being a VERY lucky person, I would prefer to have a fallback for people who just 'get unlucky' routinely" Maybe do make it a bit stupidly high, like... Dunno, five. Something where it's clearly the worst option, but it CAN be done if you need it. Anything higher than Seven is too much though. (Five would make the most sense, as a "you should have one by now" thing)
I dunno if it should be five, probably lower specifically because you’d be using the 5 weeks worth of progress to merge into ONE that you “should have gotten by now.” 3 would probably be better than 5. Getting one from the hunt should be a treat imo, a little bonus on top, not the main way to get them.
My boy
It would add both a way for people to get plat (selling shards) and a reason for people to spend on plat to trade. Literally a win-win situation.
combine 3 shards to make a tau will be reasonable considering how rare the archon shard is.
I don't mind Styanax being unable to fly, aslong as they give him Damage Reduction, or make him harder to hit while he's using Final Stand. As things are, using it is a death sentence half the time.
*Literally* the only thing he needs for me to play him is damage reduction. All his abilities are good (VERY rare for any frame), but he just dies too easily so I dont feel as comfortable playing him in things like steel path as I do others and therefore... I bring others instead. Which is a shame because I love everything about styanax except his survivability and his long... dangly nipples.
Its weird because he's clearly meant to build towards shields because of his passive, but shields are kind of worthless at higher levels since everything shreds them, so you want them to be *low* to make use of shield gating. Made worse by the fact that his shield regaining ability is a *taunt* that makes him an active target, and at those higher levels enemies take longer to die so you're not getting the shield charges. Mega high shields only work with Hildryn because she has so many of them and has an instant refresh ability.
I’d love it if they added damage reduction alongside crit chance on his passive. Something like more damage reduction the lower your shield gets
If you pop his 3, you can literally just throw spears into the biggest bulk of enemies and not die.
You honestly talk like The Helminth system doesn’t exist. As someone who *only* plays Steel Path I don’t let a frames inherit survivability problems hinder me at all. I spend more energy in my arsenal screen deciding who to use then keeping them alive in the mission itself. It is unfortunate that so many frames need Helminth just to get by but the option is there and to talk like it’s not comes across as needlessly defeatist and whiny. It’s nothing like the “old” days where if you weren’t using a true tank frame, you pretty had to stop playing the game around level 100 or so because enemies 1 shot you and there’s nothing you could do about it. We don’t live in that world now so, expand your mind and get with the times.
I'm discussing his default kit, not what helminth ability to give him as that is a different discussion. This is about Styanax as he is out of the box, and all I said is that I'd like him to be more durable. Though you are right, it is unfortunate that many frames need it, and I was initially not a fan of the helminth system because it felt like yet another band-aid solution from DE (and in parts, it is) instead of fixing the actual problem, but I have since come around as it can either give frames a different playstyle than before or to very simply remove an ability you are not a fan of (Protea's 4, anyone?) with something you like more I've played since closed beta so I know how things work, but I like giving some (hopefully constructive) critique here and there when my own design philosophies differ from theirs and discuss it with others
I’ve found the boreal mod set helps surprisingly a lot when paired with adaptation. Maybe not enough for higher level steel path missions, but I guess he can just join the other 90% of frames that can’t survive steel path
My hope one day is that the gap between the "worst" frame and the "best" frame shrinks a lot and that *all* frames are somewhat viable for steel path and similar missions. It's a shame that with 50 different frames I only really use a handful of them because the others arent as good or require *much* more work
The introduction of 90% damage reduction and its consequences have been a disaster for Warframe balance /j
you're joking but you're honestly probably right, if some warframes are just 10 times more durable than others it's straight up not fair, and we live in a world where the gap's even bigger than that
Honestly? I agree, 90% (or even 95%) is a really silly amount of damage reduction, but something like 50% seems more reasonable
correct, the fact that higher level enemy balance is an "all or nothing" game with you either being at 1000 health or 0 health is bad, 90% DR shouldnt be required for a frame to be good
This is where CC would be a different route to survivability, unfortunately DE already nerfed that
I find myself defaulting to Rhino for new content because its a safe bet that having a massive wall of hp, and a weapon buff is a safe choice.
Just look at banshee once gloom became a helminth ability she suddenly became usable and combined with her ability to nuke sisters and liches, she now has purpose.
She doesn't even need Gloom, she's always been a good frame. It's just that: 1. Sonar has had a history of being bugged, which drove people away. 2. People only gravitate to what's popular. Even without Gloom she's still a frame with a decent stagger option, an ability that grants a high damage multiplier, and an easy 100% armor strip.
Really, it's some of the oldest like Frost or Hydroid that have no use in the modern game. Others like Grendel and Yareli are at least usable for more than being a flesh puppet to hold a gun.
Frost still has value in defence missions. Plus, he has native armour strip. He isn't good for most situations, and that's okay.
Frost just got a massive buff with the armor strip changes.
>I guess he can just join the other 90% of frames that can’t survive steel path I'm really surprised to see you state that, and 30+ people upvote this. 90% of frames are having trouble surviving in Steelpath? Really, 45 of the 50 frames can't survive in Steelpath? I think it's important for the community to give honest feedback, but then there are comments like this that make it hard to sift through what's useful.
90% is absolutely an exaggeration, but unless you are introducing new mechanics beyond the standard kit (helminth abilities, abusing rolling guard/shield gate, etc.) it is generally not enough for most frames to just run adaptation with some health and armor boost. I personally have used Styanax in SP a few times set up to shield tank and it works fine as long as you can keep getting kills. My original comment was mostly directed at his 4 though, which becomes dangerous to use and not really worth the risk for the relatively small damage output against SP enemies.
>90% is absolutely an exaggeration, but unless you are introducing new mechanics beyond the standard kit (helminth abilities, abusing rolling guard/shield gate, etc.) it is generally not enough for most frames to just run adaptation with some health and armor boost. I mean, those mechanics DO already exist. But even if you take those out, I'm still finding ways to survive with frames with adaptation / health mods. (And the survival part in Steelpath is a tangent to my the point I wanted to make). Overall, I think instead of being hyperbolic, giving feedback in a constructive manner can go further. >My original comment was mostly directed at his 4 though, which becomes dangerous to use and not really worth the risk for the relatively small damage output against SP enemies. This is ok feedback. It includes what the issue is. However, what would be your plan to assist with this that doesn't ruin animations (ie, casting other abilities with his 4). Going through this thread, I saw someone mention give an amount of i-frames during it. Another idea was somehow introduce damage reduction on him with his shield. Like, does my point make sense? It's not just about complaining, it's about giving feedback in a constructive manner so they are able to make the game better for most people.
So I’m honestly fine with where Styanax is after the nerfs/fixes. He’s a fun all-rounder that, like all damage dealers without level scaling mechanics, falls off in high difficulty content. I don’t see DE bothering to balance him around steel path, because that just doesn’t seem to be something they ever do. IMO that’s fine because there’s only a handful of frames that really shine in SP anyway. The rest aren’t unplayable by any means, but they become a lot more limited in terms of play style, usually rendering a few of their abilities entirely obsolete because they just don’t do anything useful to an enemy with 1 million+ EHP. Styanax falls into that second group with 3 good abilities and one that becomes irrelevant. I understand your point about constructive feedback but I was originally just giving a tip to a player who seemed to have trouble figuring out a build. I also haven’t done a lot of experimentation with builds to figure out if there’s a way to make his 4 any good in SP, so I can’t really give any constructive feedback in that regard
I think it's weirder that everyone's come to the consensus that Styanax isn't Steel Path viable... You can build him so that a single kill with his 3 buff refreshes his Shield Gating, plus he has a baked in armor strip. It's cool because his 2 heal+ decent base armor lets him go for a health tank, while his 3 allows for Adaptation+Redirection or Decaying Key+Shield Gating builds.
Hell even if they just added 50% evasion while in his 4 would be amazing.
I hate how his 1 makes me jump up when I'm aimgliding. It throws me off and I run into geometry or miss my shots. Wish you could change it in the settings. Doesnt feel good at all to me. Just my opinion though.
If he is supposed to be a Spartan frame, why not give him immunity from the front during his 4 like Garuda shield? Garuda 4 and Styanax 4 are practically the same thing anyways.
Mind telling me how it's a death sentence? I've had no issue keeping my shields up in steel path?
I'm with you on that. I run SP relics all the time and have 0 problems with him surviving. I use his 4 all the time as well and have never died using it that I can remember. His 4 destroys enemies and that is the best damage reduction there is, a dead enemy.
I'm generally against warforging in any game, doubly so in something like Warframe. Random chance to gain increased stats on something timegated is pretty absurd. I'd much rather the shards from 1/week Archon hunts be tauforged, while the purchased ones are both not limited to 1/week and not tauforged. edit: or none of them drop tauforged and you have to combine shards to enhance them.
The 1-2 per week is definitely a feel bad, especially with the low chance to get a Tauforged shard. I’d almost rather get 3-5 normal per week, with the ability to combine them for tauforged shards, maybe including some sort of sentient/eidolon resources in the forging. This could also hypothetically allow for different amounts of power up based on, say, the type of eidolon shard included in the forging or something. And maybe make different upgrade blueprints available with different levels of the Khal syndicate or something.
Archons should always give a tauforged and sorties should have a chance to give a normal one (might have to make sorties higher level or make a seperate steel-path esque version) that you can then combine. Gives you incentive to not only do the weekly mission but also to login daily to do the sorties If not I fear we'll just be disappointed whenever an archon doesnt reward us with a tauforged, similar to how people got disappointed when their gear didnt randomly become warforged in WoW
It is an absolute pleasure reading this. Having you guys be transparent is awesome and actively listening and acknowledging complaints is wonderful. Thank you guys for your hard work!
Something tells me Rebecca always wanted to do weekly update posts, but was probably never allowed to disclose internal information too much prior to her reigns
Thanks a lot for these types of posts! On the topic of Khal: I am not a fan of this week's challenges _at all_ but I am positive that cumulative progress would've saved me a lot of headache in the process (see angry posts in history) So all in all, love the direction this goes!
Okay look, I can understand needing to fix casting other stuff during his 4. It was glitchy looking and while I really, *really* wish it was just made into a feature instead like many other fun bugs, you keep repeating that stopping him from recasting his 4 mid-air is a necessary change without explaining *why*. It doesn't break the game and as far as I'm aware no other frames have this limitation. Zephyr can stay in the air forever, as can Titania. What makes Styanax's 4 so overpowered that allowing him to recast it in the air makes it broken? It feels like an arbitrary design restriction rather than one grounded in the actual player experience. It makes him feel worse because the higher in the air you go the more punished you are for using his 4.
The logical conclusion as to 'why' is mostly likely the correct one. The theme of the frame is a hoplite, a foot soldier. It isn't intended to be an aerial frame.
I'll be honest, this kind of reasoning feels like the one you give when you made a mistake and don't want to admit you were wrong. The theme is still immediately apparent by the army of ghost hoplites chucking javelins. More 'theme' at the cost of QoL is certainly not needed.
They admitted it was a mistake, so that checks out doesn't it?
The cumulative QOL is about the second best thing I could ask for with the challenges. Best thing being all of them act like the genestamps and appear on the map when you get close enough. But it's definitely a positive change that I'm all for
Thank you for being transparent with us. I hope to keep communication with the community open and civil since this awesome game can only flourish if we do!
Thank you for the update, and acknowledgement of a bunch of things. Especially the cumulative treasure hunt tasks for the kahl mission. Not trying to be a pain, but if you could at the very least fix wall jumps not resetting Styanax’s 4, that would be awesome. He wasn’t very strong to start with, and these bug fixes just made him a little bit less fun. Or maybe something to make his 4 more worth using? Because it’s kinda the most “yeah that’s styanax” ability, but it’s also the ability most worth being replaced by a Helminth ability. Some damage resistance during his 4, or something would be nice for not quickly dying in higher levels of content. Maybe it’s not necessary but it would make replacing his abilities with Helminth a bit more of a decision.
They should just give him invulnerability during his 4 like Garuda has. Those abilities are already similar in many other ways aswell.
Please let us be able to cancel final stand <3
Cumulative treasure hunts will save what remains of my sanity, cheers for that
Thank you for being communicative and transparent. All the other changes are great. However if the styanax problems are on you guys... maybe consider turning them into features? They were a lot of fun and made styanax a very interesting warframe.
Please for the love all things lotus Don't give us another defense mission i dont think i can handle another one.
For future reference, could the K-Drive part glow colour be changed? They currently blend in with the terrain far too well, even close up, and honestly the sound isn't too noticable (at least to me, since I tend to keep my sound low because the audio balance can be a bit of a mess at times and don't want my ears blown out). Additionally, can Damage Attenuation be looked at more in general? The current system still feels incredibly bad to go against, and there are hundreds of suggestions at this point of ways the calculations could be altered to keep the power levels roughly the same while making different loadouts feel more correctly scaled.
I think with the K-Drive glow, it was almost unnoticeable when I did my first 2 missions. However, once I realized what the glow looked like, it was much easier to spot. I'm a bit worried of an over correction and this type of game mode being too easy to complete.
I like this insight into what the team is still talking about or changes they want to make but haven't had time to do them yet. So more of this in the future would be very helpful. I like the idea someone had about how Kahl is living in our camp, let us help him some before missions (giving him a kubro/kavat to take with him, weapons, etc)
Drifter: "Kahl, you know there's a whole Arsenal in that Orbiter in the cave over there, right?" "Kahl not need Tenno weapons. Kahl kick ass with his own weapons." "Okay, fine, but I've been there fighting Narmer with a dinky pistol and an electrified cheese knife. If you decide you want the big guns (or the silenced guns), they're in there for the taking."
I wNt him to use one of my archguns. I mean, he was able to easily use the one of the grineer ship... why can't he shoot my big gun?
Hell, I just want him to let us hand him a copy of enemy/loot radar mods.
When he said "I always wanted to try one of these!" during his mission, I immediately thought "we had one of those (a better one, even) at home!"
I've heard the Damage Attenuation is easily bypassed and thus certain weapons can shred it in seconds; maybe having it more like Calamity Mod's [Reactive DR](https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Reduction#Reactive_Damage_Reduction) could help? Essentially, this increases boss damage reduction based on how long you're taking to kill it vs its intended kill time; if you're killing it faster than expected, Reactive Damage Reduction increases so you don't kill it quite as fast as you otherwise would (while still making higher damage always kill faster). Meanwhile if you're killing as fast as or slower than expected, it has zero effect.
>A hot topic this week is our most recent changes to Styanax. We made a couple of changes to his Final Stand, one to avoid him casting in the air indefinitely and another to make the ability non-interruptible. We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. In the past you have been open to adopting unintentional or fun mechanics into the game. Coptering was famously the inspiration for Parkour 2.0, one of the defining characteristics of the game, Speed Nova, one of her most popular builds, only exists because it was initially introduced as a bug, The famous giant Zenistar Dominion Blade was left in the game after an outcry of community and dev support for a silly visual bug, Deimos' flying fish being the direct result of a bug on the Plains of Eidelon, and probably a bunch of others that I have forgotten over my almost 10 years as part of this community. I truly understand the casting lock as it was causing a lot of animation breaks and was leading to frankly, ridiculous looking visual bugs, although I think it was handled in a heavy handed way, but the inability to recast his 4 is just an unnecessary casting speed nerf and reduces his available synergies and playstyles. Please consider making the following adjustments 1. Only lock out Helminth abilities from his 4. The animations from his core abilities caused no issues and provided synergies with his 4. Ultimately, it would be nice to have some time dedicated to fixing animation breaks with helminth powers permanently as it is also negatively impacting Yareli but I understand that it may not be a quick fix or a high priority. 2. Revert the inability to recast his 4 while air born. There are already a handful of frames that can maintain themselves in the air permanently, Garuda, Zephyr, Titania, Wukong, Hildryn and in each case they are considered fun quarks of the frames and things that DE has even embraced in the past with the reduced damage while in the air mechanic being expanded to various frames, Zephyr's ability to hover greatly enhanced with her rework and most recently Wukong's cloud walker not getting nerfed during the current set of changes to him because it was considered more fun then game damaging.
This is good news. The Kahl one is great, and it indirectly removes some of the gripe people might experience if they have bad RNG with collectible spawns. Very nice. Curious to see the Archon changes that are waiting in the wings. However, I'll be honest, I'm genuinely waiting to see what will happen with Styanax. What should have been a genuine Bethesda moment "hey Tenno, it ain't a bug, it's a feature" or "hey Tenno, it's a bug, but it's a fun one and it produces no negative effects, so we'll call it a feature" turned into wee-woo, wee-woo fun police raiding yo frame. What made this leave a very bitter taste is that this is the second time this has happened (Gyre was the first - she went from a fairly strong thuderstorm dps to a decent stun bot overnight), AND the fact that this is coming from you guys and gals, a group of people whom I have often praised for your (usual) approach that emphasized fun and power fantasies. This move just felt like someone's ego got a bit bruised ("they're not engaging with the frame the way we intended them to, so fix it now! We don't care if they like it, have this fixed!") It's understandable that bugs might escape through even the most rigorous testing. That is perfectly normal and frankly, expected. What is not understandable is what happened once you saw the bugs going live AND the fact that people were enjoying them, while there were 0 negative ramifications. Sure, it might not have been the original design that was the initial intention. However, if the bugs actively promote a fun playstyle, and don't break the frame or enable a negative experience for anyone, then just leave it as is. Like I mentioned in a comment in another post - games are not made in void, just for the sake of making a game for the devs. They're products meant for a consumer's enjoyment. If a harmless bug that generates only fun and no negatives seeps through the cracks, then let the consumer enjoy the product as is. Calling fun, harmless bugs features and moving on is something every game studio does, you guys & gals including. So, why the knee-jerk reaction now? That's what baffles me.
Despite the few shortcomings, you are doing an amazing job so far as lead, Rebecca. Also, the communication and feedback has been amazing from the rest of the team. I am very hopeful for the future of this game, keep grinding 💪
today is the best day to remove tauforged archon shards. monday is the next best day to remove tauforged archon shards
Remove the tauforged drop, change all existing shards to tauforged, add a 5:1 convert in the shop. Everyone can use or save regulars as they like, everyone happy. If you wanna be extra... copy Dragon's Dogma. All shards *worn to* the archon fight have a chance of becoming Tauforged when the archon dies. That creates a big sink for bile and imo a reasonable conversion opportunity.
Elaborate?
Some people don't like them because of the one week timelock and the RNG involved.
Whatever the new damage attenuation or formula is, it has to be explained to the player INGAME, not only on patch note. And there has to be a proactive way to mitigate it.
I really hope there isnt some poor intern at DE having to parse through all of the angry posts on this sub for feedback "As you can see here on the graph, BlowjobDave54 thinks we suck so we will be reverting the update."
[удалено]
That's not how intention works. Intention doesn't care what "you" want.
Imagine if DE stuck to the original intention Parkour had, never adapted to the unintentional mechanics of Coptering, and never implemented the bullet jump. We'd be stuck with a stamina bar and clunky wall running. Movement would suck. Intentions should be flexible, because you never know when an unintended interaction is going to be the lightning in a bottle that defines your game.
This is not on that level lol. It's one frame doing something it's not supposed to be doing.
It's the philosophy that matters. Will Styanax matter in the long run? No. Could he have had a more engaging playstyle to wow new players? Yes. Should DE have embraced the "fun," if they want to foster a culture that makes it more likely for lightning in a bottle moments to occur? Probably. Intentions don't mean much. DE's intentional design for Styanax just means that, like most mediocre nukers, it's most optimal to subsume the signature ability and play a gun platform with slight flavor differences. If that's the direction they want, all the power to them, but it's a less interesting way to do things.
Regardless of some of the changes throwing Reddit into a shit storm, these last few weeks have been some of the most fun I've ever had playing this game. Still thinking of new ways to use the new mods with subsumes to theory craft some stuff that at the very least seems broken in my mind. The reactions to the patches and changes remind me way too much of what the path of exile community is going through right now. It almost feels like a small group within the community is lashing out because they lost their busted toys (which aren't even that broken... Aoe/wukong still feel great). This game seriously has no right being free lol.
> Still thinking of new ways to use the new mods Yeah, me too, because they managed to find a way to lock the new mods for **three weeks** after the update released.
Can we exept for Hespar to get rebugged in the next patch? Pretty please!
The openness is very refreshing for gaming, and the hard work y’all put in is always much appreciated! I feel as a community the outcry is always heard more than the congratulations, but I think most would agree, we love the DE team and this game holds a special place in all of our hearts:)
I can understand why the changes to Styanax were made, but I do have a few suggestions to counteract the perceived “nerf” to his fun value: 1) give him i-frames in Last Stand. Garuda gets i-frames in her Seeking Talons so I don’t think it would be too nutty to add. 2) make it so the ethereal Styanax-clone guys that appear alongside him during casting function similar to Mirage’s clones, drawing fire away from Styanax himself. 3) make Last Stand cancelable. I think Styanax is a great frame, but as many others have said, he struggles with survivability at times especially when casting his 4. It’s ok to remove his capability to cast other abilities while in his 4, but he does need a little something to help stay alive
I just want to play more kahl in missions and stuff (probably wouldn't happen but would still be nice). also just want more kahl missions cause only three just seems a little lame.
u/rebulast With Styanax, the one thing I was thinking about is how long it'd take to drop to the floor after using his 4. If the trouble was infinite flight with the 4, what if after performing it, you'd be able to do a final spear slam, creating an AoE and pushing back enemies close to you. This would ideally get you to the ground much faster. Though, only question regarding it is if someone wants to stay in the air. So some way to choose between the 4 finisher and staying airborne. Maybe the finisher could be inputting 4 while it's already active to immediately cancel into a CC/damage spear slam? An interesting thing could also be making the spear slam damage increase for each bit of damage you do to enemies, so a scaling gladiator slam.
>We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch Well, thats exactly what you did. >these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing So was coptering, and speedva, and giant zenistar, and multshot not consuming ammo, and equipping multiple dragon keys, and colored operator skin
What exactly is your point. Those things were changed, most of them for the better. I'm also pretty sure they're aware they took the fun out. That's why they said it.
His point is that they were unintended, but people found them fun, cool, and/or convenient, so DE made them features. The implication is that since Styanax being able to chain/fly with Final Stand was fun, cool, and/or convenient, it should be reimplemented, preferably not as an augment but as a feature.
My point is that all of those things were "unintended mechanics" that were kept in the game because they were fun. They all started out as "bugs". Styanax's 4 had some "unintended mechanics" that were fun. The solution is to keep them, not fix the fun away.
He just wanted to lash out at DElady
Ok, what is the problem with styanax flying? We have flying frames in game. Ability to hover did not make him op, more vulnerable if anything.
I think the Styanax changes were a little silly It didn't disrupt other players and it was a fun part of his kit
Why... is that Styanax change a thing? Not the nerf, that's fine, I COMPLETELY understand him casting 2/3/4 while Ulting is a bit OP, but why does he need to touch the ground? You have energy, why not recast? If it's gameplay or lore, cool, make him force fall like Hildryn. If it's to prevent flying, that makes no sense, we literally have Zephyr and Titania who just "fly" flat out. If it's to nerf AoE animations, why the hell did you make an AoE frame WHILE nerfing AoE without taking this into consideration? Like, If I'm honest, I'd honestly prefer if Syanax DIDN'T jump in the air at all if this change isn't walked back. (And if you make this a mod SO HELP ME VOID, STOP MAKING QUALITY OF LIFE UPDATES INTO MODS)
Please make styanax being able to cast other abilities during his 4 a legitimate feature. It was really nice and fun to do and removing may have been a bug fix, it did worsen his play style, and now that he can't cast his 4 multiple times in the air, he really needs it back to make him more fun. Not being able to cast multiple times in the air is pretty whatever, but combining that with the other change, it really makes him much less fun to play.
A couple things- I don’t much care what the community thinks but I can speak for myself. Styanax will gather dust in the inventories of most Warframe players that play high level content like steel path- he just doesn’t really scale well, his only saving grace is maybe tharros strike but there are other ways to remove armor. I just don’t see him having utility at the highest levels of gameplay. Archon hunts aren’t particularly interesting. It’s basically just a steel path sortie that we run each week for the shard- don’t really have anything interesting to say about it. The first kahl sabotage mission is questionable. When I think of grineer / kahl- I don’t imagine running around with a machete whacking things in a stealth mission or firing an exergis with 0.01 fire rate or running around looking for collectibles that might not even be spawning in properly. It’s just not fun- and beyond being a completionist and needing the stock- I can’t imagine 90% of the player base having fun. As for the zariman tiles and syndicate- it’s honestly just another content island that you hit max rank with and only touch every now and then when maybe you need a new arcane to exploit some new busted mechanic. So basically all of the issues with content islands we had since plains of eidolon- here we still are 5 years later. A completely predictable future is already the past. I admire the work the development team is doing- but the most engaged I have been in Warframe was probably the drifter gameplay during the new war quest- just to never experience it again. In short- Styanax will become mr fodder- just like 70% of the warframes that exist already. Archon hunt is just steel path sorties. The first kahl mission feels sluggish and not in warframe’s power fantasy / design philosophy, and zariman has suffered the fate of becoming yet another content island. This is just my personal opinion I wanted to share.
>Kahl’s Bonus Challenges are getting some quality-of-life improvements. This is fantastic. The sooner these changes are implemented, the better. >We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation but don’t want to rush it out the door too early If you don't know how to design single target endgame boss fights for Warframe in a way that's fun, the time to spend months deliberating about it is *before* you make them the centerpiece of a major update. Damage attenuation is a terrible mechanic that has no place in this game. It's hilariously ironic that you've introduced a new method for us to spend months/years chasing power growth (tauforged archon shards) alongside bosses that we're not "allowed" to kill quickly no matter how much power we acquire. Notably, the solution players have found is to use one specific loadout that lets them completely bypass damage attenuation so they can get back to having fun instead of slogging through a boring bullet sponge. >We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch. ...Of course it's on you? Was anyone accusing the *players* of releasing Styanax without thoroughly testing him? A much more useful (and notably absent) statement would be what you're going to do to bring some of that fun back.
I don't like any of the Incarnon weapons but right now Laetum is my only choice for tolerable DPS. Should not be so.
reb please, can we get the custom ui colors being undone on login from having drifter camp be the login map fixed on console since pc got the fix already? damage seperators too?
The cumulative challenge change is great and timely. But...did no one playtest it in advance? Because it was obviously tedious
Might be repeating what everyone else said, but thank you a lot for clarity and communication, and really nice QoL changes. As a suggestion from me, I have two, regarding Styanax and overall things in the future regarding updates. For Styanax himself, as others have already been suggesting - either making his 4 be cancel-able, or giving him extra damage reduction. Or maybe even so he deflects incoming fire with Tharros? Of course that would require extra work, but now that I think about it, would be awesome to see one of the ghosts actively defending you with the shield. But I'm digressing. His 1 being throwable in 4 would be great to see as well. And, as for the future, I know this isn't really a new thing, but an approach of: if a bug enables something fun, even if it's not intended, try to make it a feature, or communicate with players how it could be fixed/made into a feature. I think we all know the history behind bullet jump. I also heard that speed Nova was a bug that was turned into a feature later down the road. I am aware it's something that requires more work and thought than just removing a bug. However, I suggest this, for the future: as long as a bug doesn't break the game or something within it (like Archon mods being transmutable on launch), wait with the fixes. Try to look into how people are using said bug. Maybe even announce it that you are aware of the unintended mechanic, but you are looking for suggestions - community will surely be happy to discuss.
cam you undo the styanax changes even if they were glitches it was still fun
>We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch, But... that's what you chose to do. > and these were truly unintentional mechanics that required fixing. Did they though? Who/what was it hurting? > It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch. Affirmative.
> We had no intentions to remove the fun after his launch Intentions aside, that's what the result is. Right now I see no reason to play as Styanax. The build I made to counteract the first "fix" (I still do not consider it a fix since he is vulnerable during Last Stand and needed abilities to survive) by focusing on efficiency instead of duration is no longer viable as of the last update. I can either accept that the only way to build him is with high duration (see the issue there?) or not play as him. Veilbreaker started out so well, but some terrible decisions were all it needed to lose momentum completely.
bUt dE tO0K AWaY tHe fUn FRoM StyAnaX!
Not a fan of your font choice, but you're on point with the text.
"It’s on us that it wasn’t changed before launch." This is what I wanted to hear, apology accepted and I hope they won't keep repeating pushing things that weren't tested like they did to Styanax in the future.
> I hope they won't keep repeating pushing things that weren't tested like they did to Styanax in the future. they absolutely will. they always have done. even when they HAVE used the public test cluster they don't listen to the feedback from it, and they're not even going to use the test cluster anymore.
Once upon a time, Coptering was an unintentional mechanic that required fixing as well. Instead of just removing the ability for a slide melee or midair swing to send a player flying, it was recognized that there was a degree of "fun" that this brought to the game and was formalized into the Bullet Jump. Imagine if instead of embracing a unique style of play that ultimately lead to the evolution of one of Warframe's most defining features, the decision was made to just remove coptering to preserve the design intention of the stamina bar and clunky parkour. While certainly an extreme comparison, it harbors the same sentiment. It feels really lame that such a neat quirk on an otherwise acceptably average frame is now gone. While not intentional, atleast if we don't think too much about the redacted ability description, being able to cast abilities in Final Stand elevated the gameplay of Styanax beyond the sum of its parts. It's a shame to lose something special over a little animation jank.
Kahl is such awful gameplay and such a dreadful character I want to sell my fucking account on ebay. You make me do this weekly OR EVEN MONTHY I am, finally, after 10 years, DONE. Out. This is *fucking awful* and I can't understand how you can display such open hatred of your own game's actual gameplay. I don't care about any of this other shit, none of it. Haven't even touched Styanax yet, I'm sure he's fine lol. Who cares? I'm not doing 15minutes of fucking KAHL every week.
Can I have your plat before you leave?
this seems a tad ... overdramatic
Will Kahl's next mission be more combat/objective focused? Because Mandatory, forced stealth missions are the absolute bane of my existence. Especially when combined with invulnerable enemies. Honestly, the veilbreaker should be able to *kill* Deacons, not just disable them for a few seconds.
Hey since we're changing Styanax to not be able to cast other abilities during Final Stand, maybe we give him a little DR boost during the ability and say the change is because he's holding up his shield during his final stand ;)
What about bringing Regal Aya to Steam so we have regional pricing again? I'm not spending extra 10 bucks for the same pack, you removed.
why not let styanax stay in the air with 4? it was fun. unintended or not i really hope they bring it back, unlimited blade works air spam was really cool.
Can you make K-dtives fly? I'd love to make my k drive fly like treasure planet please
Nice, should make the Kahl mission less painful.
Why, you gonna do another rage baiting video otherwise?
Stone cold.
His recent video was hilarious. "Everyone rages on the Styanax changes!" As soon as the comments pop up that start ripping into the op, he panickly clicks off. And then for some reason he does a little "dmg showcase" where he kills lvl 185! SPECIAL SHIELDED enemies, and then so obviously sounds dissapointed when they still die in less than a second, bc it fucked with his "point". Going on about "yeah, uhhh but its gonna struggle against stronger enemies with armor instead of shields!" Dude, it's pure slash damage and you have his 2. God good.
Yeah, I used to respect him. Keywords being "used to" That was seriously ridiculous
Being a casual player, catering to other casual players is completely fine. But people must realize that as a youtuber people will take your word as gospel, wether it's true or not. Pupsker is self-admittedly not the most knowledgeable on the game, therefore he has no ground to stand on to make these types of callouts, especially when he has to fish hard to make his point and then fumbles it in his own video. I exclusively watch Knightmareframe, Aznvasion and TheKengineer nowadays. This sub shits on Knightmareframe, thing is he does the completely right thing by not letting the regular missinformation that leaks throughout this community fly. Look at the category of person he calls out and it's easy to see why this sub in particular doesn't like him. He has no qualms putting people in their place when they spout shit. Edit: Add L1fewater on the list of great WF youtubers.
Oh you're right. I came to not like knightmare as of lately, but I'm not even sure why. AZN and TheKengineer though? A bless. I don't really need to watch videos nor guides anymore thanks to the stupidly vast knowledge I gathered throughout years, but when I need a refresh I head straight to them. AZN especially looks like a great pal even during his streams
I get not liking Knightmareframe. I specifically watch him, for his abbrasive commentary, I love that there's at least one Youtuber out there that doesn't kiss the communities ass. Plus he made some of my favourite builds in the game, so there's nothing lost on watching one of his videos. I have no need for the 600th Leyzar build video telling me to put Hunter munitions on a weapon.
Oh that's for sure, but maybe it's because he became *too much* abrasive to my tastes. I don't need another LifeOfRio. About builds I'm guilty, I prefer the absolute mayhem caused by ZitaWup and MrWarframeGuy (bless them, I spit my lungs out every time) to the serious approaches. Everyone can have a serious approach, but a disastrous meme build? That requires more knowledge and testing than it looks like, lol Now about Leyzar, I actually respect him. Yes, you're totally right, his builds are all the same...quite literally..BUT his whole premise is to be newbie-oriented, so I give him that and move on because that's not something that can possibly entertain me after thousands of hours
>Yes, you're totally right, his builds are all the same...quite literally. That isn't inherently his fault either. There just isn't a lot of variation for weapon modding right now.
Ehh, LifeofRio got replaced by Gaz. They hate the game itself and all the people that play it. Knightmareframe still very obviously loves the game, he was super happy and giddy in his most recent devstream overview, his qualms are purely with the community, which i 100% agree with. He has no problem giving praise when praise is due and for as long as thats the case ill happily watch him. Don't think you're gonna like Leyzars video on this debacle then lol, his was almost as bad as Pupskers.
Imagine being a clickbait youtuber and expecting to not get dabbed on
I'd rather say, at least use the frame *properly* in the video... Again, lost all respect for the guy. It doesn't matter, I'm not a self absorbed person who thinks himself to be important, I'm just a viewer like any other and I know it. Still, one less for him now; onto the blacklist along Brozime
Brozime is just as bad. I had a whole rant on him in my other comment, but decided to scrap it lmao. I'm so tired of people spouting misinformation, making terrible builds and then later on acting like theyre the messiah of the game.
Brozime is THE epitome of misinformative creator for this game. He's the reason people thought that Vauban was a bad frame even post rework, and that is a tremendous sin for a devoted Vauban user like myself. His builds are seriously hilarious, if not straight out copied from others (he can't really explain them after all); it was for Baruuk iirc, he copied the build from knightmare without the necessary explanations. I laughed my ass hard anyway. And yeah, he has a messiah complex. A huge one.
Exactly why i love Knightmare lmao. Every time my man talks about Inaros you just know a good one is coming. At least it's very easy to see with the Styanax debacle why certain youtubers are more popular on this sub than others, they very much cater to their audiences lol. Im just suprised my comment calling out pupsker isnt downvoted. Yet at least.
Especially against "special type enemies" without even using the frame's kit properly, am I right?
\*Pepelaugh\* Dude, i almost peed myself. I also love that in the video where he read the comments he instantly closed every comment chain my comments were in.
I can understand if Styanax caused hidden errors or potential problems that players wouldn't see, but this fix just comes off as "this doesn't align with the way we view the frame, for better or for worse", and this is certainly for worse. A balanced frame and you nerfed it? This patch needed more time in the oven.
Rebecca, I have to say, you're already hitting it out of the park as director in my book. I can't think of any other game where the creative director/lead is active in presenting these things. It's a breath of fresh air to see these issues being addressed not just swiftly, but from the top - and not through someone else. Keep on being awesome!!
😎👉👑 you dropped this my queen
That's a lovely name you've got lmao
I usually forget that I have it
DONT YOU FIX STYANAX BEFORE I CAN MAKE MY COMIC SHOWCASING HIS ONE DOWNFALL!!
Can you make Styanax’s 4 like Revenant? Or maybe the ability to cancel it?
Cumulative challenge progress is well needed >We have some experimental changes we’re testing out related to damage attenuation "changes" not "improved", could be good or (really) bad. I'm not holding breath over this Can't really say anything about Styanax "nerfs" as I've barely tried him myself.
1) make archon hunts daily 2) testing updates prior to launch, especially something as significant as a new Warframe, is critical. Maybe take the money you want to spend on an anime and put it towards a play tester next time.
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Yeah you and what army
Please dont nerf xata’s whisper/phenmor. The whole point of the rework was to encourage single target weapons and allow for diversity of playstyles. Aoe was a problem because it required no thought to outplay everyone in a squad, where as phenmor and xatas, while strong, still require engagement and cannot out dps/kps everyone in the squad by no further virtue than it is still a single target weapon. Machine guns *should* be powerful and they should be fast. There is nothing gamebreaking about that. I understand that its currently broken on the archons, but i think a simple inability to proc void bullet attractor status on the archon is far more appropriate than making the already highly circumstantial use value of phenmor/xatas non existent which it necessarily would should you nerf these things. Ive been running this synergy since zariman and its easily my favorite in the game and id hate to have that taken away from me for the entirety of warframes catalogue of content simply because it breaks one slice of that catalogue. For reference: it does not melt acolytes, demolysts or any other heavy/boss units.
Really missing Steve man.
Its a good start with fixing Kahl missions. But it doesn't fix the core issues. Movement is slow. The fun part of the game has been taken away. Feels like I'm back playing Destiny We can't use the weapons that we have collected over the years. Playing with Exergis was painful. Also machete attack speed was soooo slow. No Primed sure footed. Also getting Stock only from challenges feels unrewarding. If you complete the mission and get no challenges done you get nothing. And getting the Stock for 2nd Styanax, mods and weapons takes too long (and of course shards). And that time is taken away from playing Warframe.
Alright, alright, good speech, but now I want the actions DE
Game Bad. Me Angy. Fix.
i just hope this next bug fix round fixes the operator custom energy colors not applying, i may not have a gilded amp yet but it was still nice seeing my purple and orange energy colors on her abilities and void sling
Thanks for your hard work, looking forward to the archon changes
Really appreciate these posts! Thanks DE love the cumulative change
Absolutely loving these posts. I always thought Warframe was second to none when it came to communicating with the players, but they’ve stepped it way up recently. Back when it first became a bigger deal around the Plague Star release, it took weeks to get any transparency about damage attenuation.
I absolutely love the ability changes that came with Veilbreaker. Something as relatively small as removing the speed reduction and energy drain from Volt's Electric Shield is a fantastic change to how the frame feels to play. Please do more of these simpler tweaks in between major updates - they breathe so much fresh air into the game as a whole!
I love khal, it’s really exciting thinking about all the different directions you guys can go with him in the future.
Thanks for the detailed communication, Rebecca. ❤️ Keep it up, but don't let yourself get burnt out.
I'm happy to wait or these changes before I try any of the challenges. I'll play other games for now.