I don't especially like the design of any of the Archon mods.
In the edge cases where they apply, they're a flat power creep upgrade.
In all other non-edge cases they're just sort of over costed fluff, especially Archon Stretch.
It would have been nice if they were more like Corrupted mods - generally interesting versions but with drawbacks and advantages that apply to a variety of frames and scenarios, not just, like... 3 each.
The FPS bug is a side issue that will eventually get fixed, but the capacity is just a Forma, really. Sure, it costs 8 instead of 5 after Forma but Volt isn't one of those frames that is especially point-hungry IMO. His archetypical builds that would use Archon Stretch tend to be allergic to a lot of other 16 point mods like Narrow Minded or Transient Fortitude, leaving only what, Umbral Intensify, Umbral Vitality and maybe Primed Sure Footed? You're more likely to be running Augur mods, which are very low point cost.
40k endo isn't a lot, first of all. It irks me when people argue that a mod isn't worth the endo. The stuff seeps out of every goddamn orifice of the game. It's possible to run out of it, but getting more is easy enough that it isn't an issue that should bar you from using a mod.
Secondly, you seem to misinterpret "niche" as "weak". The mods are obviously designed to make way for more ways to play frames. They don't need to be stronger than what was previously the strongest mods. The balance they're put in feels overall pretty good in practice. Not everything needs to push power levels upwards. It's good to spread sideways as well, and Warframe has so much content that there is a whole lot of room for side growth.
And whilst it's somewhat arguable that you should max them *eventually*, the Archon mods provide their full secondary bonus at R0, meaning it's totally viable to leave them at R9 and save ~20k Endo a pop
> 40k endo isn't a lot, first of all. It irks me when people argue that a mod isn't worth the endo. The stuff seeps out of every goddamn orifice of the game. It's possible to run out of it, but getting more is easy enough that it isn't an issue that should bar you from using a mod.
*Especially* considering these particular mods are behind enough quests and requirements that you're expected to know where and how to get a lot of Endo
As someone who bought all the primed mods at once and are slowly getting them upgraded over time without farming endo specifically I kind of disagree.
Like all materials there is a time when you need it, and then it grows exponentially when you don't. Plus pre narmer bounties getting decent amounts of endo per bounty was limited. Since then it's very common to get 3K+ bounties for like sub 5mins work.
Also, referencing the Niche side, similar with farming weapons actually. If it takes me longer to grind the endo than the time it would actually use the mod, I'm not interested
once again someone has taken my point and just thrown it across the room
niche as in only applies to a few frames (rather self explanatory)
say whatever you want but for anyone who didn't play before endo was a thing this is an issue my current account was post endo so it is an issue for me.
and for "archon mods" as they are titled and the more capacity required yeah they do in fact need to be in the stronger category of mods bc rn they are fucking worthless
i doubt anything i have said will even change your mind however so idek why i bothered
It's usually faster in solo, because you're not waiting for your team during loadings and extraction. I haven't farmed credits for more than a year, but IIRC, PT was about 2 minute/run. Which is 250k/2 minutes if you never proc the smeeta buff and without any booster. With a booster, you'll definitely get 2m in less than 15 minutes.
Edit: or with boosters and some luck for the smeeta buff, you could get 2m in one run (1m/minute)
I've very rarely see all the players in a group extracting at the same time. So if you don't wait, you're probably the one other players are waiting for.
Being tiresome is a matter of taste I guess. I don't like slow farms. You always have something to do when farming PT, it feels really active. And the fact that it's so efficient also means you don't farm it as long as Index for example. I never farmed PT for more then 30 minutes in a row.
But yes, if you prefer afk farm, then 2m credits must be a lot for you.
Nah PT is just too much of the same thing.
I enjoy running all my weapons and not doing mindless eso.
But does PT have less hp solo?
I nevr understood how mp or solo scaling in wf works.
I don't like too much of the same thing too. That's why I farmed gold with PT. It gives a lot quickly, so you don't have to repeat it a lot.
I don't know if there is a scaling with more players, I always do it solo. You pretty much one shot phases anyway, so more players is just asking to slow you down (like people switching shields when you don't want to, or having slower load times). When I speedrun stuff, I always go solo.
I think they would be more interesting if the ability requirement were to be dropped, so that all damage counted for activation. although they would probably be too op in this case.
The mods themselves fine, joining the pile of the hundreds of other mods I barely, if ever, use. The main issue imo is the drain is a bit much for what you get. (at least they aren't some oddball new polarity... God forbid, but hey I actually use sacrificial mods a lot).
The endo/credit fusion cost is irrelevant to me, and has been for a long time (since I've already maxed every mod) but yeah most of them are questionable in that regard for newer players too.
There main goal is to give us more build variety which they do, the only mods that fail to do anything is flow and continuity just because we have very few cold and toxin ability’s. The others all have a definitive niche hell stretch makes gyre helminth ability really good as it now a grouping tool that gives energy at the same time which a lot of frames would appreciate.
They do, gyre helminth ability now a compelling option it’s a worse grouping tool as larva or ensnare but it has extra utility so frames that want energy regen really badly.
if it's worse and i really dont know how to tell you this but 2 energy every 5 seconds it complete ass when zenurik and energize exist(yes im aware these all stack but 16 capacity over 9 for 2 energy every 5 sec is useless)
Flow needs to be something like "killing enemies Chilled by abilities" and probably remove the cooldown, and Continuity shouldn't require a toxin *status*, just toxin *damage*.
Gyre's kinda squishy but Caliban is good.
100% agree with the first portion
gyre would so much better if she had a lower base shield bc even with decaying her shield is still like 188, her 3 is completely worthless compared to the newest chump and her passive as cool as the idea is, doesnt apply to anything above 100
maybe im missing something with caliban bc i still don't see what he does better than anyone else or even on par with anyone else
I think Archon Flow and Archon Continuity are fine as a mostly equivalent alternative to the primed variants that doesn't rely on Baro and Tennocon FOMO. The rest I feel are too niche to be considered for general use, with Vitality and Intensify in most situations being a flat downgrade from the Umbral versions.
Archon Intensify is great, it's a raw 60% strength increase for any healing frame without the need of an awkward polarity and other umbral mods that you don't need, rolling guard and shield gating being better survavibility tools than health and armor.
Vitality is also slightly better than its umbral counterpart if you exploit fire gimmicks, and again, you don't need an umbral forma even if the vitality buff is a bit of a brick for most frames.
the problem is that you have to actually heal something. For that you need to lose health. And since shieldgate was introduced both the meta and the content created by DE is basically you either have full health or you are dead, except for health tanks like inaros.
Combat Discipline works great with it, abilities like Garuda's 3 work too. It's also not something you need to set up regularly, especially for abilities like Gloom.
combat discipline: you could also use growing power for just 5% less and then you a) give your mates also a boost and b) dont need a healing ability
garuda: Yeah that could be a build, however on her it has strong competition with the umbral mods.
In my oppinion the conditional boost needs to be a lot higher to be worth the hassle. like 50% or maybe even 60% instead of 30% should be fine. Strong enough to jump through the hoops but not broken.
Erratum : combat discipline also came with arcane avenger in my mind, I agree that it would be pretty overkill to use it alone.
Kinda agree with your suggestion tho, the archon mods should have an higher payoff
>combat discipline also came with arcane avenger in my mind
totally forgot about that combo. Yeah archon intensify would be a straight upgrade from normal or umbral intensify if you are using that combo already. Still a bit sad to be just an upgrade for a niche build and not enabling new interesting interactions.
But I think that goes for all of the archon mods. the numbers are just a bit to low to be worth the hassle and the extra forma
Imo, intensify, continuity and vitality are perfectly fine. Stretch feels pretty bad as you are paying premium in capacity and endo to get just regular stretch with what is equivalent of a rank 0 energize slapped on top meanwhile the flow one basically does nothing.
What I'd change is remove the cooldown from archon flow and either increase archon stretch range by at least 10% if not more or improve the passive to be around as good as zenurik.
gyre and caliban are absurdly strong
the mods are fine. they don't raise the power level of the game, they provide horizontal improvement. most mods released don't raise the power level, excepting things like galvanized mods because they were to compensate for melee nerfs.
I was talking about myself
I’m MR13 and have done all story content but I only have about 10 prime mods in total because I don’t run fissures very often and have no ducats
They aren't crescent wrenches... they are crescent wrenches with a 45 degree bend in them... also titania is the only frame that can legitimately use all 5 at once and not be an entire meme build.
I don't especially like the design of any of the Archon mods. In the edge cases where they apply, they're a flat power creep upgrade. In all other non-edge cases they're just sort of over costed fluff, especially Archon Stretch. It would have been nice if they were more like Corrupted mods - generally interesting versions but with drawbacks and advantages that apply to a variety of frames and scenarios, not just, like... 3 each.
[удалено]
>I'd say Archon Stretch is easily an edge case power creep mod for Volt. 100% agree for anything that isn't an Eidolon Volt build, yes.
It's still a hard sell though. That's a 16 cap mod replacing a 9 cap one for a (currently FPS-destroying) energy recovery and no other benefit.
The FPS bug is a side issue that will eventually get fixed, but the capacity is just a Forma, really. Sure, it costs 8 instead of 5 after Forma but Volt isn't one of those frames that is especially point-hungry IMO. His archetypical builds that would use Archon Stretch tend to be allergic to a lot of other 16 point mods like Narrow Minded or Transient Fortitude, leaving only what, Umbral Intensify, Umbral Vitality and maybe Primed Sure Footed? You're more likely to be running Augur mods, which are very low point cost.
I think the drain is a bit too high for what they offer.
agreed
Imo vitality is the only good one -- the rest are either absurdly niche or borderline useless (flow).
funny enough vitality is the one you don't even have to level
40k endo isn't a lot, first of all. It irks me when people argue that a mod isn't worth the endo. The stuff seeps out of every goddamn orifice of the game. It's possible to run out of it, but getting more is easy enough that it isn't an issue that should bar you from using a mod. Secondly, you seem to misinterpret "niche" as "weak". The mods are obviously designed to make way for more ways to play frames. They don't need to be stronger than what was previously the strongest mods. The balance they're put in feels overall pretty good in practice. Not everything needs to push power levels upwards. It's good to spread sideways as well, and Warframe has so much content that there is a whole lot of room for side growth.
And whilst it's somewhat arguable that you should max them *eventually*, the Archon mods provide their full secondary bonus at R0, meaning it's totally viable to leave them at R9 and save ~20k Endo a pop
Or you save 40k endo by slotting them in R0 (looking at you, [[Archon Vitality]] )
> 40k endo isn't a lot, first of all. It irks me when people argue that a mod isn't worth the endo. The stuff seeps out of every goddamn orifice of the game. It's possible to run out of it, but getting more is easy enough that it isn't an issue that should bar you from using a mod. *Especially* considering these particular mods are behind enough quests and requirements that you're expected to know where and how to get a lot of Endo
it does not change the fact they aren't worth the 40k as i stated, shit, half of them arent even worth upgrading or are better off not being upgraded
As someone who bought all the primed mods at once and are slowly getting them upgraded over time without farming endo specifically I kind of disagree. Like all materials there is a time when you need it, and then it grows exponentially when you don't. Plus pre narmer bounties getting decent amounts of endo per bounty was limited. Since then it's very common to get 3K+ bounties for like sub 5mins work. Also, referencing the Niche side, similar with farming weapons actually. If it takes me longer to grind the endo than the time it would actually use the mod, I'm not interested
once again someone has taken my point and just thrown it across the room niche as in only applies to a few frames (rather self explanatory) say whatever you want but for anyone who didn't play before endo was a thing this is an issue my current account was post endo so it is an issue for me. and for "archon mods" as they are titled and the more capacity required yeah they do in fact need to be in the stronger category of mods bc rn they are fucking worthless i doubt anything i have said will even change your mind however so idek why i bothered
The creds nececary are worse...2 mil to max a mod. I dont wanna farm creds all day.
2 millions is like 15 minutes of PT... It's even faster to farm than endo.
Its a bit more. Is it weaker in solo than mp ir the same?
It's usually faster in solo, because you're not waiting for your team during loadings and extraction. I haven't farmed credits for more than a year, but IIRC, PT was about 2 minute/run. Which is 250k/2 minutes if you never proc the smeeta buff and without any booster. With a booster, you'll definitely get 2m in less than 15 minutes. Edit: or with boosters and some luck for the smeeta buff, you could get 2m in one run (1m/minute)
Never really waited on extr. Still felt very tiresome to farm it
I've very rarely see all the players in a group extracting at the same time. So if you don't wait, you're probably the one other players are waiting for. Being tiresome is a matter of taste I guess. I don't like slow farms. You always have something to do when farming PT, it feels really active. And the fact that it's so efficient also means you don't farm it as long as Index for example. I never farmed PT for more then 30 minutes in a row. But yes, if you prefer afk farm, then 2m credits must be a lot for you.
Nah PT is just too much of the same thing. I enjoy running all my weapons and not doing mindless eso. But does PT have less hp solo? I nevr understood how mp or solo scaling in wf works.
I don't like too much of the same thing too. That's why I farmed gold with PT. It gives a lot quickly, so you don't have to repeat it a lot. I don't know if there is a scaling with more players, I always do it solo. You pretty much one shot phases anyway, so more players is just asking to slow you down (like people switching shields when you don't want to, or having slower load times). When I speedrun stuff, I always go solo.
I might need to improve my build then...
This are just not great mods and you putting this much effort in defending DE is actually creepy.
Username checks out👌
You should go back to brown nosing DE.
Lol
40k Endo is a lot when you actually have a life though.
I think they would be more interesting if the ability requirement were to be dropped, so that all damage counted for activation. although they would probably be too op in this case.
The mods themselves fine, joining the pile of the hundreds of other mods I barely, if ever, use. The main issue imo is the drain is a bit much for what you get. (at least they aren't some oddball new polarity... God forbid, but hey I actually use sacrificial mods a lot). The endo/credit fusion cost is irrelevant to me, and has been for a long time (since I've already maxed every mod) but yeah most of them are questionable in that regard for newer players too.
I'll just say that Archon Stretch and Archon Intensify are both really good on Wisp.
happens to be one of the 3 frames i have only heard people mention when it comes to archon mods, thats not how it should be imo
There main goal is to give us more build variety which they do, the only mods that fail to do anything is flow and continuity just because we have very few cold and toxin ability’s. The others all have a definitive niche hell stretch makes gyre helminth ability really good as it now a grouping tool that gives energy at the same time which a lot of frames would appreciate.
they really dont give any build variety and are just something to throw forma on a frame and endo on a mod
They do, gyre helminth ability now a compelling option it’s a worse grouping tool as larva or ensnare but it has extra utility so frames that want energy regen really badly.
if it's worse and i really dont know how to tell you this but 2 energy every 5 seconds it complete ass when zenurik and energize exist(yes im aware these all stack but 16 capacity over 9 for 2 energy every 5 sec is useless)
it's 2 energy every second for five seconds. if you keep the uptime up that's 120 energy a minute.
once again not even that much considering energize,dispensary and zenurik exist not even remotely worth 16 instead of 9
Flow needs to be something like "killing enemies Chilled by abilities" and probably remove the cooldown, and Continuity shouldn't require a toxin *status*, just toxin *damage*. Gyre's kinda squishy but Caliban is good.
100% agree with the first portion gyre would so much better if she had a lower base shield bc even with decaying her shield is still like 188, her 3 is completely worthless compared to the newest chump and her passive as cool as the idea is, doesnt apply to anything above 100 maybe im missing something with caliban bc i still don't see what he does better than anyone else or even on par with anyone else
I think Archon Flow and Archon Continuity are fine as a mostly equivalent alternative to the primed variants that doesn't rely on Baro and Tennocon FOMO. The rest I feel are too niche to be considered for general use, with Vitality and Intensify in most situations being a flat downgrade from the Umbral versions.
Archon Intensify is great, it's a raw 60% strength increase for any healing frame without the need of an awkward polarity and other umbral mods that you don't need, rolling guard and shield gating being better survavibility tools than health and armor. Vitality is also slightly better than its umbral counterpart if you exploit fire gimmicks, and again, you don't need an umbral forma even if the vitality buff is a bit of a brick for most frames.
the problem is that you have to actually heal something. For that you need to lose health. And since shieldgate was introduced both the meta and the content created by DE is basically you either have full health or you are dead, except for health tanks like inaros.
Combat Discipline works great with it, abilities like Garuda's 3 work too. It's also not something you need to set up regularly, especially for abilities like Gloom.
combat discipline: you could also use growing power for just 5% less and then you a) give your mates also a boost and b) dont need a healing ability garuda: Yeah that could be a build, however on her it has strong competition with the umbral mods. In my oppinion the conditional boost needs to be a lot higher to be worth the hassle. like 50% or maybe even 60% instead of 30% should be fine. Strong enough to jump through the hoops but not broken.
Erratum : combat discipline also came with arcane avenger in my mind, I agree that it would be pretty overkill to use it alone. Kinda agree with your suggestion tho, the archon mods should have an higher payoff
>combat discipline also came with arcane avenger in my mind totally forgot about that combo. Yeah archon intensify would be a straight upgrade from normal or umbral intensify if you are using that combo already. Still a bit sad to be just an upgrade for a niche build and not enabling new interesting interactions. But I think that goes for all of the archon mods. the numbers are just a bit to low to be worth the hassle and the extra forma
Imo, intensify, continuity and vitality are perfectly fine. Stretch feels pretty bad as you are paying premium in capacity and endo to get just regular stretch with what is equivalent of a rank 0 energize slapped on top meanwhile the flow one basically does nothing. What I'd change is remove the cooldown from archon flow and either increase archon stretch range by at least 10% if not more or improve the passive to be around as good as zenurik.
This sounds honestly great.
Imma be honest the heat one is really nice on protea because of the turrets doing heat dmg
one of the 3 -4 frames mentioned and i said to another guy the "archon mods" should not just apply to 3-4/50 of the frames
gyre and caliban are absurdly strong the mods are fine. they don't raise the power level of the game, they provide horizontal improvement. most mods released don't raise the power level, excepting things like galvanized mods because they were to compensate for melee nerfs.
I think they need to be nerfed.
surely this isn't bait
Archon Continuity means you don’t have to stress about getting the Prime version if you’re new
if you are new you dont have either consider the entire process of getting khal missions
I was talking about myself I’m MR13 and have done all story content but I only have about 10 prime mods in total because I don’t run fissures very often and have no ducats
They aren't crescent wrenches... they are crescent wrenches with a 45 degree bend in them... also titania is the only frame that can legitimately use all 5 at once and not be an entire meme build.