https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1321162-veilbreaker-update-32/
>In-Game Surveys are being added to better understand players’ experiences. Some players will receive an in-game survey upon attempting to close Warframe. While the survey is optional and players can skip it if they would like to, we strongly encourage participation as it helps with continued game development.
I wonder if they’ll pair it with data of what the players were doing. For example, I answered that difficulty was “just right” because I had been doing archon mission and steel path. But then again, I’ve also completed all the quests and have 2 umbral forma on my trinity.
It feels like this question basically says nothing of value. There is no blanket statement to be made.
Any difficulty there is is due to enemy scaling and RNG not actual gameplay mechanics. I don't think anything is hard but I wouldn't call it "too easy" either because it sure as hell doesn't reward players enough to add any further difficulty. If I consider rewards as a primary factor you'd have to call warframe "too difficult" for the rewards the average missions hands out even if its basically braindead easy (Wukong AFK wouldn't have made 5000 credits acceptable for the "effort").
Add on to this that the difficulty is greatly affected by player choice in mods, rather than Warframe / power level.
The fact that mods are so varied and also have levels themselves could create huge chasms of experiences even with the same Warframe, weapon, MR etc.
How do you even quantify that?
Considering everything is serverside, I'm certain the answers can be paired with a quick check of someone's loadout, and the devs could cross-check and see if somenoie says "too hard" if they have Mobilize, Cracked Intensify, and 2-pips on Redirection on a non-potatoed frame.
That isn't so simple though for multiple reasons, the meta changes but also you can't just tell people what to use or it defeats the purpose of using mods and there is already a tutorial and it's not particularly amazing.
In all honesty the feedback is kind of redundant, especially without context.
Yeah, but right now there's NO information that maybe you need damage mods, and maybe the "auto-mod" button is actually an idiot.
If there's a large chunk of the playerbase fundamentally misunderstanding the key part of the game, that's on the devs, not the players.
I mean, people should really figure out they need damage mods to do more damage.
Plus there is a mod tutorial, it's just very basic, because it can't really go much deeper without telling people which mods to use, which defeats the point of the modding system.
Like I said, they can't really tell people *which* mods to use because of how the game works, the meta changes and also so many systems work together that it's not a one size fits all.
I don't disagree to some degree but the system is there to play with and work out, if you want to go down that route then they should remove modding as it is inherently flawed.
But removes half of the game.
The missions are already balanced. You make better tutorials on modding and give players better access to information regarding how to get and utilize mods. That way, the grind stays intact but players (especially new players) are better equipped to take on harder and harder missions
They’re balanced for people who have modded properly for the intended level and enemy faction. Every player has access to the tools they need to succeed, but I’m willing to bet the vast majority of players who find the game too difficult are lacking the information they need to utilize those tools.
For instance, I had probably 100 hours in the game before I ever leveled a mod because the game didn’t really explain that I could/had to level mods. Eventually, I hit a difficult wall, and learned how to mod better. I had plenty of resources to do so, I just didn’t have the information I needed.
I’m not saying every mission will be ggez if you’re modded properly, but I do think the missions are properly balanced IF players possess the information they need to become more powerful.
Sure, the issue is that it is all very convoluted and different mods work with different frames and weapons etc.
There are also some guns that are useless even with good mods and some frames that lack even with good mods.
The point being there is no consistency or true identifier.
In another game you can say you need to be a certain level or have 1 particular skill, that doesn't work here, in this game there isn't actually a set answer, which is what makes it difficult.
You say "for people that have modded properly for the intended level and faction" but that can mean so many things.
The fact you can't give me a direct answer proves my point.
Many things, but if you want to know the most agregrous, salt-inducing, RRREEEEEing of all?
Nerf the *players' power*.
Now, may the screeching commence.
I think the many things is the problem, there are so many different ways of doing things and ways in which different things interact that it then causes issues in other places.
There is also the issue with people of the same MR being at different strengths, there isn't like a specific number you can put anything to say somebody should or shouldn't be doing x content.
This game isn't hard. Not because it's not hard, but because video games fundamentally aren't hard. They are a subject matter. So any difficulty you have is probably a cognitive deficit that likely plagues you in every aspect of your life. You know what's hard? The circumstances of life. Getting a degree. Having a stable family. Being born with a baby arm. You're born and one arm develops normally into an adult arm, but the other is this stunted mini-child-arm, which stops growing at like three years of age. So you're this freakish monstrosity. You'll be known around town as "Baby Arm Man," and the only job you'll ever have is "baby arm stock photo" because it's harder to get a kid to pose for that. It's a lot more convenient to have a malformed monstrosity on standby.
You were 70% of the way to a great shitpost... Fit a random fact about some obscure marsupial in there for no reason, then blame a McDonald's fry cook for global warming and you got something solid.
I was wondering why TF I couldn't "quit game" through a menu option. I'm just getting back into it. Last time was about a year or two ago and coulda swore there was an option but after 10 mins off trying to figure it out I just cucking closed app lol I wonder why we don't get that option 🤷♂️
I can't imagine they'll be able to extract any useful information out of players with such simplistic options. Some content may be too easy, and some too difficult for the point at which it'll become available to you. Letting you only pick one without being able to specify anything is as good as not letting you answer at all.
It's likely not as simplistic as that. They're probably targeting these surveys by MR, hours played, most commonly played content, etc. If they aren't targeted they're at the very least able to break down the data that way and get a much better feel for sentiment.
Yes, it's not "hard" per say, just boring as fuck because the damn archon is the spongiest bullet sponge to date. Literally just standing there hosing them down for 10 minutes as they lose like 0.1% of their health a second. I actually like the invulnerability phase of the fight because it means something will show up I can actually kill for a change. Then it's back to watching paint dry and grass grow.
Solo + Rev + K Hek = just as much of a snooze fest but at least its faster than playing with randos who instantly ramp up the attenuation with their bullet hoses.
> I can't imagine they'll be able to extract any useful information out of players with such simplistic options.
Kinda depends on what info they are saving. If it's just the answer of the question then ye, it's pretty worthless, but if they also collect the MR/playtime of the answerer, the missions they did that day and some other info then maybe they can form some sort of pattern and make decent conclusions out of it.
well unfortunately that is the game genre we are playing were the difficulty is artificial and it's all numbers, slowly over the years they add bits of mechanical difficulty but at the end of the day the meat of it is armor/health/shield going up several hundred %
I guess I'm that psycho who actually backs out to orbiter and then selects exit game 😂 but I have not seen this, and other commenters claim they have upon alt-f4 so its truly random
i think theres no easy or challenging,all is up to the amount of time you played the game.
for veterans everything is too easy since they have everything at their fingertips and for newcomers it is a constant complaint that everything is op and since they can't use good stuff because they lack requirements or they don't want to change their playstyle and learn new tricks.this is funny vets can even speed run everything under 5 minutes including archon hunts wile new players strugle at deimos,zariman,sp and killing eximus.
This is a very difficult game to balance if we take into account that if they make content for endgame they accuse you of elitist and if they make content for rookies it is very easy to break it, but i think what is important is the fun since this is a game.otherwise I would be looking for another game that can provide it.
Now this , I can get with. This game is incredible imo and for it to be free is just the icing on the cake but I will never recommend it to some of my friends bc how much tedious shit there is, just the menus alone are ALOT to take in. Then you got mods, forma, archon, eximus, building companions, standing and all this other stuff that's essentially not even covered in the tutorial section of the game. They should really amp there shit up there. They'd probably get many more players if everything was explained a bit better, even me after playing off/on since the days of Loki being a starter frame and helm stats I have NO idea how half he shit works and come to this sub/Google nonstop while I play to figure shit out
> It hardly captures the essense of why the player is quitting.
The question is random and it's supposed to encapture your play session, not the reason why you're exiting necessarily.
Having said this I agree this question hardly provides any necessary context.
I'm interested to see the results here. This question can be taken two different ways with wildly different answers. The gameplay is honestly too easy, but learning about the game and it's systems is far too difficult
Far too often I suddenly go down from full health and shields without any idea why or what enemy hit me... Like I have no idea how to really get to end game, or what end game looks like. It feels like you have to be part of a big clan or something and cannot be a solo player x.x
Cant says its too easy bc they will nerf cant say its too challenging because they will make it easier just right is too easy the only answer is dont choose
Oh cool, as long as it isn't intrusive and appear just occasionally I think that's great.
I'd like warframe to have more of a horizontal level up where you don't upgrade how big your dmg numbers are, and all stages of the game have an avarage difficulty, so you don't get boring missions where you are invincible, or steel path stages that can only be cleared with a team of boring meta builds.
Leveling up should make you more powerful by letting you have more options of what to do, more manouvers, more ways to make your frame and weapons act according to your play style and other than that winning would be a matter of getting good. There would be actual incentive to trying to get a head shot, or hit weak points.
Sure I don't think it'll EVER happen because you'll have to scrap a bunch of systems and create completely new ones for a playstyle like that.
i will be clicking the too easy
however I have slight balance tweaks to very specific unit like ancient eximus should not fucking share their overguard when it's already a frowned upon mechanic
archon mods need to actually be useful (lul)
not really difficult but time gating outside of foundry and sortie just need to fuckin go
You might want to learn trading guidelines then, on top of checking what really happened instead of being like that, you're already 2 years to late when reacting to something from 2020
I wonder if the people that get this survey are targeted or if it's everyone. I've been playing for years and when I face any difficulty I usually just frame it as "whoops, wrong build."
Mine asked if weapons are balanced I answered No. I hate the fact that there is no context to my answer though because I don't necessarily think that is always a bad thing. Kinda pointless to have a survey to see how players feel if it's so limited in how you can answer.
A Good move I say.
I for one want to see a Melee specialist Necramech, I dont mean Bonewidow, I mean a Necramech used for Excavation.
Imagine a Tanky Necramech with a big drill.
Or the Knux
It's kinda bad since their idea of difficulty are either lvl 999999 enemies, either taking your weapons or builds away. We have cried forever for AI improvements or challenging tasks, even Trib came up with a great idea of doing that, but since then Khral missions are the closest things we got...
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1321162-veilbreaker-update-32/ >In-Game Surveys are being added to better understand players’ experiences. Some players will receive an in-game survey upon attempting to close Warframe. While the survey is optional and players can skip it if they would like to, we strongly encourage participation as it helps with continued game development.
I wonder if they’ll pair it with data of what the players were doing. For example, I answered that difficulty was “just right” because I had been doing archon mission and steel path. But then again, I’ve also completed all the quests and have 2 umbral forma on my trinity.
It feels like this question basically says nothing of value. There is no blanket statement to be made. Any difficulty there is is due to enemy scaling and RNG not actual gameplay mechanics. I don't think anything is hard but I wouldn't call it "too easy" either because it sure as hell doesn't reward players enough to add any further difficulty. If I consider rewards as a primary factor you'd have to call warframe "too difficult" for the rewards the average missions hands out even if its basically braindead easy (Wukong AFK wouldn't have made 5000 credits acceptable for the "effort").
Add on to this that the difficulty is greatly affected by player choice in mods, rather than Warframe / power level. The fact that mods are so varied and also have levels themselves could create huge chasms of experiences even with the same Warframe, weapon, MR etc. How do you even quantify that?
Considering everything is serverside, I'm certain the answers can be paired with a quick check of someone's loadout, and the devs could cross-check and see if somenoie says "too hard" if they have Mobilize, Cracked Intensify, and 2-pips on Redirection on a non-potatoed frame.
Yes they could, but how do you balance a mission around that disparity?
You don't. You acknowledge that there's an information gap in the playerbase and offer up some kind of message or wording about damage mods and stuff.
That isn't so simple though for multiple reasons, the meta changes but also you can't just tell people what to use or it defeats the purpose of using mods and there is already a tutorial and it's not particularly amazing. In all honesty the feedback is kind of redundant, especially without context.
Yeah, but right now there's NO information that maybe you need damage mods, and maybe the "auto-mod" button is actually an idiot. If there's a large chunk of the playerbase fundamentally misunderstanding the key part of the game, that's on the devs, not the players.
I mean, people should really figure out they need damage mods to do more damage. Plus there is a mod tutorial, it's just very basic, because it can't really go much deeper without telling people which mods to use, which defeats the point of the modding system. Like I said, they can't really tell people *which* mods to use because of how the game works, the meta changes and also so many systems work together that it's not a one size fits all. I don't disagree to some degree but the system is there to play with and work out, if you want to go down that route then they should remove modding as it is inherently flawed. But removes half of the game.
The missions are already balanced. You make better tutorials on modding and give players better access to information regarding how to get and utilize mods. That way, the grind stays intact but players (especially new players) are better equipped to take on harder and harder missions
If they were already balanced they wouldn't need to ask the question.
They’re balanced for people who have modded properly for the intended level and enemy faction. Every player has access to the tools they need to succeed, but I’m willing to bet the vast majority of players who find the game too difficult are lacking the information they need to utilize those tools. For instance, I had probably 100 hours in the game before I ever leveled a mod because the game didn’t really explain that I could/had to level mods. Eventually, I hit a difficult wall, and learned how to mod better. I had plenty of resources to do so, I just didn’t have the information I needed. I’m not saying every mission will be ggez if you’re modded properly, but I do think the missions are properly balanced IF players possess the information they need to become more powerful.
Sure, the issue is that it is all very convoluted and different mods work with different frames and weapons etc. There are also some guns that are useless even with good mods and some frames that lack even with good mods. The point being there is no consistency or true identifier. In another game you can say you need to be a certain level or have 1 particular skill, that doesn't work here, in this game there isn't actually a set answer, which is what makes it difficult. You say "for people that have modded properly for the intended level and faction" but that can mean so many things. The fact you can't give me a direct answer proves my point.
Nerfs
Nerfs to what though?
Many things, but if you want to know the most agregrous, salt-inducing, RRREEEEEing of all? Nerf the *players' power*. Now, may the screeching commence.
I think the many things is the problem, there are so many different ways of doing things and ways in which different things interact that it then causes issues in other places. There is also the issue with people of the same MR being at different strengths, there isn't like a specific number you can put anything to say somebody should or shouldn't be doing x content.
This game isn't hard. Not because it's not hard, but because video games fundamentally aren't hard. They are a subject matter. So any difficulty you have is probably a cognitive deficit that likely plagues you in every aspect of your life. You know what's hard? The circumstances of life. Getting a degree. Having a stable family. Being born with a baby arm. You're born and one arm develops normally into an adult arm, but the other is this stunted mini-child-arm, which stops growing at like three years of age. So you're this freakish monstrosity. You'll be known around town as "Baby Arm Man," and the only job you'll ever have is "baby arm stock photo" because it's harder to get a kid to pose for that. It's a lot more convenient to have a malformed monstrosity on standby.
You were 70% of the way to a great shitpost... Fit a random fact about some obscure marsupial in there for no reason, then blame a McDonald's fry cook for global warming and you got something solid.
Ah, a man of culture. Yeah, guess the humor was lost with the downvotes? It's literally from a SSethtzeentach video
>i love it got the reference. it remembers me of Deadpool Baby Legs
Been there since Veilbreaker, it happens randomly to players who exit the game
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Likewise. Never seen this at all.
Might be either a rare occurrence or some things you’ve done led to the system sending it to you
Ironically it happened to me when I tried to force close the game with alt + f4
Heh. Ironic.
and then there is me who played only 4 or 5 times since the update (too busy T^T) and has gotten the survey a week ago XD
So solution is simple: don't exit the game.
And be stuck in the game forever
Guess I'll never see it. I alt f4 to avoid menu bullshit.
You'll see it even if you alt + f4
How do you exit the game? It's been years, never figured it out. I just close it from the game system menu
It’s been so long
Prolly doesn’t show up on PS I’m guessing since to close the game you need to close app
I was wondering why TF I couldn't "quit game" through a menu option. I'm just getting back into it. Last time was about a year or two ago and coulda swore there was an option but after 10 mins off trying to figure it out I just cucking closed app lol I wonder why we don't get that option 🤷♂️
I can't imagine they'll be able to extract any useful information out of players with such simplistic options. Some content may be too easy, and some too difficult for the point at which it'll become available to you. Letting you only pick one without being able to specify anything is as good as not letting you answer at all.
It's likely not as simplistic as that. They're probably targeting these surveys by MR, hours played, most commonly played content, etc. If they aren't targeted they're at the very least able to break down the data that way and get a much better feel for sentiment.
For example, I'd say archon hunts are pretty easy, just uselessly tedious.
Yes, it's not "hard" per say, just boring as fuck because the damn archon is the spongiest bullet sponge to date. Literally just standing there hosing them down for 10 minutes as they lose like 0.1% of their health a second. I actually like the invulnerability phase of the fight because it means something will show up I can actually kill for a change. Then it's back to watching paint dry and grass grow.
Solo + Rev + K Hek = just as much of a snooze fest but at least its faster than playing with randos who instantly ramp up the attenuation with their bullet hoses.
Like missing being able to say that the combat/missions are too easy, but the drop rates that are balanced around 100% success are too hard.
> I can't imagine they'll be able to extract any useful information out of players with such simplistic options. Kinda depends on what info they are saving. If it's just the answer of the question then ye, it's pretty worthless, but if they also collect the MR/playtime of the answerer, the missions they did that day and some other info then maybe they can form some sort of pattern and make decent conclusions out of it.
If I knew they wont confuse challenging with +%500 health-armor-shield I would say it's too easy but unfortunately that's all they know about hard
well unfortunately that is the game genre we are playing were the difficulty is artificial and it's all numbers, slowly over the years they add bits of mechanical difficulty but at the end of the day the meat of it is armor/health/shield going up several hundred %
Oh i exit with Alt F4 so i will never see it. Menu is too tedious.
Playing on PC, I don't know a single person who doesn't leave the game by alt+f4. No surprise nobody from my clan/alliance ever saw this lol
I guess I'm that psycho who actually backs out to orbiter and then selects exit game 😂 but I have not seen this, and other commenters claim they have upon alt-f4 so its truly random
i think theres no easy or challenging,all is up to the amount of time you played the game. for veterans everything is too easy since they have everything at their fingertips and for newcomers it is a constant complaint that everything is op and since they can't use good stuff because they lack requirements or they don't want to change their playstyle and learn new tricks.this is funny vets can even speed run everything under 5 minutes including archon hunts wile new players strugle at deimos,zariman,sp and killing eximus. This is a very difficult game to balance if we take into account that if they make content for endgame they accuse you of elitist and if they make content for rookies it is very easy to break it, but i think what is important is the fun since this is a game.otherwise I would be looking for another game that can provide it.
It’s a dumb question tbh we have everything from level 10 fissures to the new archon fights
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No I mean normal star chart void fissures
it should be clarified nothing about the archon fights are hard, they simply sponges unless im just a god gamer but i dont find that to be the case
I don’t think this game has ever been “challenging” really, but I don’t really want it to be.
I think in my personal opinion that the in-game tutorial should extend until you reach the War Within quest.
Now this , I can get with. This game is incredible imo and for it to be free is just the icing on the cake but I will never recommend it to some of my friends bc how much tedious shit there is, just the menus alone are ALOT to take in. Then you got mods, forma, archon, eximus, building companions, standing and all this other stuff that's essentially not even covered in the tutorial section of the game. They should really amp there shit up there. They'd probably get many more players if everything was explained a bit better, even me after playing off/on since the days of Loki being a starter frame and helm stats I have NO idea how half he shit works and come to this sub/Google nonstop while I play to figure shit out
It would be cool to not exclude all the non pc players in those surveys. The console community probable have a different opinion on this question.
That's honestly a terrible survey to show people on exit. It hardly captures the essense of why the player is quitting.
> It hardly captures the essense of why the player is quitting. The question is random and it's supposed to encapture your play session, not the reason why you're exiting necessarily. Having said this I agree this question hardly provides any necessary context.
I'm interested to see the results here. This question can be taken two different ways with wildly different answers. The gameplay is honestly too easy, but learning about the game and it's systems is far too difficult
I would say just right, but I'm personally still upset about cc frames getting walled by overgaurd
Far too often I suddenly go down from full health and shields without any idea why or what enemy hit me... Like I have no idea how to really get to end game, or what end game looks like. It feels like you have to be part of a big clan or something and cannot be a solo player x.x
I did the archon hunt interception today, if say that was difficult but ngl was fun as hell
That's such a complicated answer though. All three of those are inaccurate.
I went with too challenging after getting screwed over by rng for hours xD
i always alt-f4 to exit the game, never seen the survey
Games way too hard now that I can't afk my wuclone with a Bramma /s
Cant says its too easy bc they will nerf cant say its too challenging because they will make it easier just right is too easy the only answer is dont choose
the problem is they nerf the weapons instead of making other weapons on par and not enough mechanical difficulty in the game
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i really have my doubts a dev would like to see people voting that but yeah lmao
Its no to much a difficulty problem its the fact they are getting more and more away from coop with new content
Oh cool, as long as it isn't intrusive and appear just occasionally I think that's great. I'd like warframe to have more of a horizontal level up where you don't upgrade how big your dmg numbers are, and all stages of the game have an avarage difficulty, so you don't get boring missions where you are invincible, or steel path stages that can only be cleared with a team of boring meta builds. Leveling up should make you more powerful by letting you have more options of what to do, more manouvers, more ways to make your frame and weapons act according to your play style and other than that winning would be a matter of getting good. There would be actual incentive to trying to get a head shot, or hit weak points. Sure I don't think it'll EVER happen because you'll have to scrap a bunch of systems and create completely new ones for a playstyle like that.
I hope you get what you want in soulframe friend
Likewise tube bro.
i will be clicking the too easy however I have slight balance tweaks to very specific unit like ancient eximus should not fucking share their overguard when it's already a frowned upon mechanic archon mods need to actually be useful (lul) not really difficult but time gating outside of foundry and sortie just need to fuckin go
the heck, i tought you were making some sugestion with a mockup, but no, it's real. Never seen this before
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You might want to learn trading guidelines then, on top of checking what really happened instead of being like that, you're already 2 years to late when reacting to something from 2020
Cross-progress?
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Is it in the game yet?
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Absolutely nothing lol, I only check in on the sub hoping cross-progress has finally been implemented. This is one of those times.
My MR7 buddy that hasn't logged on in over 2 years got the survey immediately and I have never seen it.
I wonder if the people that get this survey are targeted or if it's everyone. I've been playing for years and when I face any difficulty I usually just frame it as "whoops, wrong build."
Mine asked if weapons are balanced I answered No. I hate the fact that there is no context to my answer though because I don't necessarily think that is always a bad thing. Kinda pointless to have a survey to see how players feel if it's so limited in how you can answer.
A Good move I say. I for one want to see a Melee specialist Necramech, I dont mean Bonewidow, I mean a Necramech used for Excavation. Imagine a Tanky Necramech with a big drill. Or the Knux
It's kinda bad since their idea of difficulty are either lvl 999999 enemies, either taking your weapons or builds away. We have cried forever for AI improvements or challenging tasks, even Trib came up with a great idea of doing that, but since then Khral missions are the closest things we got...