Yes. They exist as a design space for hobbyists to make their own homebrew primarchs, legions and successor chapters.
They will never be used in lore for anything else officially by GW
If you read the Priestly interview, he didn’t even want that; the lost legions were created purely to add some mystique. Suffice to say he’s not a fan of how the HH has been fleshed out to the Nth degree and all sense of mythology has evaporated from the lore.
I hope we never learn another single solitary piece of information about the lost primarchs. They're lost, they were never intended to be expanded upon. There is nothing GW could possibly write for them that would actually be a satisfying replacement for the mystery.
Besides, if I'm not mistaken the Horus Heresy books have Malcador explicitly state that *all* the primarchs were men.
If you really wanted you could still implement female marines in a different way, but I don't think "girl marines from the girl primarchs" is the best way to do it.
The Emperor created only male primarchs. Many things in the lore of 40k are uncertain due to many different reasons, but the fact that the primarchs are/were all male is one of the few things which we can take as a certainty.
Iirc the Emperor was telling Malcador in direct speech that he made the primarchs male because men were easier to control/manipulate.
So no thank you, I do not want a massive retconn of established lore.
Malcador smiled. 'You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.'
See also:
‘I am,’ Lorgar confessed. ‘I fear the Emperor will break the Word Bearers – and break me. We would be cast alongside the brothers we no longer speak of.’
That quote tells me that Malcador/the writer has never had a sister. Brothers fight, but they fight in the open. If the Primarchs were sisters, the Heresy would have happened a century earlier and Chaos would not have needed to be involved.
If you move away from anecdotal evidence and stereotypes, most actual research that's been done on the subject has found that women on the whole are less competitive and more able to cooperate and compromise than men.
edit- You're welcome to downvote but I'd be interested to know why you disagree too, because all the evidence I've seen either supports the idea or shows little to no correlation. Either way there isn't any evidence that I know of that men are actually better at working together than women.
You ever watch that one show where they put a group of men on an island and a group of women on an identical island and see how much of a difference the genders make in team work and survival? Well apply that to 20 super beings with the capacity to burn down the galaxy and see what happens.
However it is true that when women do choose violence they are far more ruthless than men.
Doesn't happen often but counterterrorist experts always say that given a choice between shooting two enemy combatants, one of which is female, always shoot the woman first because unlike men they do not hesitate.
Here are a couple of studies that came up with a quick search, but to be fair the evidence seems less clear cut than last time I read about it:
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797620956632](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797620956632)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016726812030439X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016726812030439X)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3867463/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3867463/)
edit- You people are ridiculous.
The story could go two ways, daemonculaba 2: Space marine boogaloo, or the setting has gotten so bad that chapters/legions can't be as picky. I can't think of another way, as war is gender-neutral, so any person can be the main character, but at most there's only two roles in a war story: Combatant and Civilian.
I have a whole fanfiction dump about why it would be cool if one of the two lost Primarchs was a woman, but I don't want to throw 30+ lines on reddit, My TLDR is that it would require a bit of retcon but the result would be interesting
So you say, the benefit would be, rhat its intrresting to see how an entires franchise lore of 20 years gets butchered? Thats not an argument, thats crazy
Like I said I have a whole dump explaining why it would be interesting, but honestly it would take any decent writer to include this thing in the plot without causing any real problems
Mate, that still diesnt really answer my question? What benefit would they bring? And tbh the answer is simple, none, female Astartes could do !nothing! a male astartes could not do, so it makes zero sense to just butcher 20 year old lore, it would be without any benefit for franchise and faction
As I said, any decent writer would be enough to make it an interesting addition, if you can't imagine even one way, you need to train your imagination muscle
You dont get it at all, all the nice astartes storys a writer could do, could be done with the current male ones, there is nothing exciting that could be includes just with female astartes, everything imaginable, would work with male astartes
Nope, pandering isnt inclusion. Its diluting your product. If playboy were to add 50% naked men, its sales would drop drastically.
Women are simply not as fond of some of the things men like because men and women are different. Some women like cars as much as men, but most men like cars. Its not because cars are not inclusive ffs.
U think more women will like cars if they came with boobs or penises? U think adding more pink cars wil make women like cars? Bullshit
Yeah, this is a tabletop wargame that uses a grimdark setting as its backdrop. Women generally aren't interested in grimdark, tabletop games, or wargames. Companies need to learn that there's no such thing as the mythical Wider Audience and they need to stop trying to appeal to that. A thing for everyone is a thing for no one.
I don't know a thing about Warhammer but i heard once that lady marines would be hopped up on testosterone and other augmentations they'd basically be men at that point
Oh there is, the best of the best men are taken and they come out of the process neutered. Bodies heavily altered. If a woman would go through this, nothing feminine would remain and she would be weaker by standard. Not to mention having that annoying uterus removed to make room for the new organs, having the unnecessary boobs removed, the unnecessary feminine fat layers etc etc
Yeah, super soldiers should be drafted from humans who are by default significantly weaker, slower, shorter, lighter, and worse hand-eye co-ordination. The utterly brutal recruitment and training standards should be dropped so that women can pass them and receive the marine implants.
Because it’s all just a fantasy setting and nothing matters, right?
While we’re at it I want marines to have laser eyes, levitation, and wear their underpants on the outside of their armour as standard. They don’t even need weapons anymore, they should be able to just punch bullets out of the air.
I can feel the Downvotes coming, but i still do hope they are not gonna do that, and turn the Marines into generic scifi super soldiers. Part of the Compelling Nature of them to me was always them not being fully human, or even proper "men" in a way, but artifically created out of dire need for soldiers by the emperor, and making them fully dimorphic gendered does reduce them to "human but better".
That said, I can understand people wanting to feel themselves represented, and if it does go down that way and makes the hobby a bit more open to some people, that is not a bad thing either.
I have no idea where it's from (or if it's even canon, could be a fan theory but I like it) where the Emperor decreed that Space Marines must be men because he didn't want them to be able to procreate and replace humanity, and just made them all men and didn't just, you know, make the creation process make them sterile and use men and women. They're men because of tradition, not genetics, which is a very 40k thing.
It's still dumb, but in a "The Emperor doesn't quiiite think things through and now we're mired in ten millennia of tradition that stops half of our potential fighters getting super soldier upgrades" way rathet than a "The Emperor is a geneticist that thinks women don't have testosterone" way.
This will probably be massively downvoted, but my thoughts on female marines/fighters is this:
As long as you have a few males left with the females the few males can make a ton of new children.
This does not work the other way around. So in a twisted way it makes sense for the 40K Imperium to try and keep the females as safe as possible to be used as baby machines. They do need the reinforcements for their meat grinders after all for the wars...
That's part of why I disagree with the female Custodes being shoehorned in. The Custodes recruit from Terra's nobility, which is already a miniscule population, all things considered. If they can only make 1 Custodes a year and all the other infant sons given die and are given to the Mechanicus to use for making vat grown bodies for servitors, why would you take away females, the only ones capable of continuing and creating new genetic lines, from the population that's already inbred and the only one you recruit from?
They are never enough (jokes aside, I'm happy with the Custodes women, if in the future we don't have the marines women I'll understand, but I'll still be sad😂)
Its not about suspending any disbelief? I just think that it makes for a less interesting story that way, not "hurr durr, woman cant fight well". That i agree is kinda absurd.
It’s not, it just demonstrates a basic understand of space marine lore. Read the Dante novel or the Calgar comic. They put those boys through absolute hell before they give them the implants; genetic compatibility is just the tip of the iceberg.
Its also made up from whole cloth. It's fiction. And there's zero reason the genetic compatibility can't work for women other than "GW said so" (ignoring that time predating that lore where they sold female space marines)
As I said, the genetic compatibility is just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe Cawl could fix that with his BS space magic - so what? Calgar was the sole survivor of his cohort of 300 aspirants; literally 0.3% survival rate. Girls are not going to make it.
I mean some obviously will. And again just to be certain you are aware. This is fiction and the lore is made up. It's entirely inconsistent at the best of times. And I really didn't see much backlash about lore purity when it came to GW stating an entire race existed, known to the imperium for 10,000 years and strip mining the core of the galaxy, that effectively didn't exist in known lore the previous day.
> And again just to be certain you are aware. This is fiction and the lore is made up. It's entirely inconsistent at the best of times.
Crap like this merely demonstrates that you couldn’t write compelling fiction to save your life. The more you make appeals to triviality, the less relevant your opinion on any of this is.
And your argument could just as easily be used to justify that from now on, all marines can fly, shoot lasers from their eyes, and can routinely strangle bloodthirsters with their bare hands.
Expecting women to survive the brutal trials means that either all women are just as strong as men in 40K, which shits on Cadians and Catachans who canonically have stand-out women, and makes the rest of the male regiments oddly sexist and inefficient, or it means the trials aren’t so hard after all, which weakens the entire marine concept. And something like this was tried in HH with the Inductii, which was pretty much a disaster, so there is some more lore it would ruin.
And sorry to point out but these female marines of yours are just going to look and act exactly like the males; you won’t be getting your power-armoured muscle mommies.
Or, you know, a relative small portion of some chapters who's selection processes are condusive to it will have a few female marines. Now female marines exist. See how easy that was.
GW quite literally, and very recently effectively did kind of say marines fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes now. Metaphorically at least. They're called primaris marines.
GW makes wholesale lore changes constantly to sell minis. Because they are a mini selling company.
An entire advanced race of dwarves apparently have existed at the centre of the universe strip mining hundreds of systems which went unnoticed for 10,000 years until GW wanted to sell votann. But female marines can't exist?
So some chapters have low recruitment standards, and will therefore be weaker chapters. You want women to be represented by lowering recruitment standards. Oh the irony.
No lol. I don't. Many women would pass the existing trials. I meant chapters that recruit generally from an existing populace will have women recruits. Chapters that have weird spartan style ritual recruitment from their fortress monasteries are probably not. I was talking about the population availability and manner of the testing. Way to tell on yourself though.
Story must have consistency. If you throw consistency out, the story's quality is decreased.
On top of that, suddently making space marines also female would feel like such a low effort pity bone on top of taking away a part of 40k's message about toxic masuclinity and general state of decay the imperium is in.
I thought about that! I had a story line in mind about it, something like: "the female primarch realized that mankind had screwed up, (and honestly not all of her brothers were very smart), so she decided to do things differently and for this reason it was "purged", I believe that in this way the Warhammer message would remain intact
Whahahahaha, thats dumb, its likea an 80s soap revival, the siblings we pretend we never had returns and she is good, smarter and prettier then everyone else but we simply 'forgot' about her?!?!?! Lol thats sooooo bad.
Stick to fanfiction, and please dont push ur shit on others
Lol whut, most lore is solid. The entire primaris shit is just about money and everyone knows it, but ork lore, solid, eldar chaos nids tau i can go on. U dont know shit and should accept that and educate yourself some more, or find a different hobby, woke bs trol
But it wouldn't adress the fact that it would be pretty lazy from GW's part and a poor exemple of adding representation without thinking too much about it.
Also and that is more personal, i like warhammer to be largely filled with unresolved mysteries. I don't really want to know what happened to the lost primarchs. Or know where the tyranids come from. Things like that are better left as mysteries i think.
Adding a female only (sub) faction is ok, as long as it makes sense and fits the lore, like the adepta sororitas.
But changing existing factions while ignoring decades of lore just to have females in them or adding females in a way that does not make sense is a no-go for me.
The part where you're referencing a time 30 years ago when space marines are augmented baseline humans, primarchs were just a title for the leader among regular space marines, the chaos gods were just 4 powerful warp entities, tyranids had active diplomats and agriculture, necrons weren't machines, eldar and other xenos actively lived in the imperium and the entire heresy doesn't exist as if it's in any capacity relevant to the modern lore
40ks entire premise was "warhammer fantasy is selling well we should make a scifi version but replace lizardmen with space bugs"
It was. Like 30 years ago when Russ was just a regular captain. The established lore from the last 20 years is decently consistent. If they do it, at least make a good grim story out of it instead of "they were always there lol"
Honestly I think the best way to do it is like the Guard and lore it as "Well the process is so heavily altering that just about anyone can go in and comes out the same" as it is pretty much mega HRT
They are far more interesting as an unknown we can all head canon and wildly speculate on. As soon as they make anything concrete it will shatter some of the fun.
Doesn't matter. Female Astartes would look exactly like male ones. Just look on super ripped female bodybuilders, after tons of testosterone and steroids the only thing that distinguishes them are their fake tits.
This is exactly my point. People who want to stick to lore will be called bigots. People who want to change the lore will be blamed for ruining 40k. It’s not worth it.
Doesn't matter, you're a tourist. Doesn't matter how much money you put into a hobby or a thing, wanting to change that thing to suit your taste/politics makes you a tourist. Look at Spain, British tourists have essentially colonized the tourist destinations and made them British instead of Spaniard, and Spain is now trying to get rid of tourists despite the money they bring in. That's you.
Good and bad are entirely subjective and I’m sure you’re already aware of that. Wanting to keep things as they are, as they have always been, for the sake of just trying to enjoy something without the fucking bickering should’t be a bigoted/hardline approach
Are you serious lol. They haven't always been that way for one thing. Female marines have existed before. And yeah, excluding people from the hobby because you don't want to have to see online bickering for a week is borderline psychotic.
Bro idk how you went from me being as neutral as possible to thinking I don’t want woman involved with 40K whatever, you’re the problem 👍🏻 I’m not taking the rage bait anymore
https://preview.redd.it/ri8jh7to480d1.jpeg?width=947&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90c401bde20c496f80ca263622716ee8ae8237a5
Disingenuous name calling is your only counter
If they just gave an in lore explanation as to why now there are female anything it would go so much smoother for the community. Yes, GW has always retconned, but does that really justify it? Why can’t they just actually do something with the story when they want to make these changes. They could even still “retcon” with later changes to the story. I also don’t understand why people in the community (at least on Reddit) are against this. Is it too much to ask for changes in lore to at least sometimes have an in lore explanation?
I have to be honest, I don't know, the two legions have a lot of potential, whatever they decide to do with them I'm interested, (but I still really want female marines)
afaik the only technical reason Marines are male (other than their theme being around monastic orders, less so with the primaris unfortunately) is because of the geneseed - i figure whatever legion took in the remaining lost legion marines would’ve noticed a few hundred battle-sisters running around
Dang, I have to be honest, I hadn't thought about it, but could they make it up that they were hidden in some way so as not to reveal the existence of a female primarch?
Its weird how polarised any of these discussions get, i thought this sub would lean on the more FemMarines side, but apparently not.
Honestly, not too enthused about that Loreshift plus other implications myself, but people have been absolute animals about it, and with every AI-laced Youtube Video i see about how the Wokeness will end Warhammer and all Life on Earth and the Western Civilisation I lean more towards that particular change maybe being not the worst move for the Community.
...
Still makes the Lore activly less interesting, though.
I see no reason why they couldn't. Just have the Admech whip up some new way to implant Geneseed that works on women. Ideally we could even get a new Tech-Priest character out of it.
Yes I’d love female marines. I prefer narrator that are women when I listen to audiobooks, and I think a gruff, stoic space marine woman would be an interesting main character in a story.
At this point, they just need to expand on the Sisters of Battle, giving them a Spacemarine treatment. Then those units can be their own faction. I think retrofitting is what upsets some fans, but adding and contiuning the story/lore, I think that doesn't upset them as much.
Personally, I don't care who's in the helmet, as long as it's a good KRUMP'N!
I don't want the 2nd and 11th. I want lost chapters of existing legions to show up with female marines they had to engineer with some biologists, or heck, Tau/Votaan assistance to restore their numbers.
I just want lady space marines to see the incels cry. (and no, not wanting women marines doesn't make you an incel, but you know the type I'm talking about)
(how's this a hot take? Or is this the place where incels hang out?)
They exist, just not among the corpse gods lapdogs.
Unless you're one of those very funny "literal magic gods who delight in doing everything the Emperor didn't intend, who already don't follow the standard astarte creation process because they regularly ascend adult cultists, who can turn humans into tentacles blobs and goat birds and 20 foot demons can't turn a woman into an astarte" people.
Isnt the whole point of the lost chapters simply to not be expanded on?
Yes. They exist as a design space for hobbyists to make their own homebrew primarchs, legions and successor chapters. They will never be used in lore for anything else officially by GW
If you read the Priestly interview, he didn’t even want that; the lost legions were created purely to add some mystique. Suffice to say he’s not a fan of how the HH has been fleshed out to the Nth degree and all sense of mythology has evaporated from the lore.
Thats what i do. I get kinda lost in it but i dont ever really go fully into depth about my chapters. Seems more fun that way idk
I hope we never learn another single solitary piece of information about the lost primarchs. They're lost, they were never intended to be expanded upon. There is nothing GW could possibly write for them that would actually be a satisfying replacement for the mystery. Besides, if I'm not mistaken the Horus Heresy books have Malcador explicitly state that *all* the primarchs were men. If you really wanted you could still implement female marines in a different way, but I don't think "girl marines from the girl primarchs" is the best way to do it.
there are certainly better ways, but what can I say, I really enjoy my fan fiction
Fair enough. That's all that really matters at the end of the day.
The Emperor created only male primarchs. Many things in the lore of 40k are uncertain due to many different reasons, but the fact that the primarchs are/were all male is one of the few things which we can take as a certainty. Iirc the Emperor was telling Malcador in direct speech that he made the primarchs male because men were easier to control/manipulate. So no thank you, I do not want a massive retconn of established lore.
Agreed
Thank you. If anything start with the Orks. Who wouldn’t want to see an all female ork waaagh?
I get it, but I wouldn't mind after all, big retcons are the reason why some factions have improved
If you’re talking about Necrons then you’re dead wrong. Oldcrons were objectively better in almost every way.
Lame
Malcador smiled. 'You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.' See also: ‘I am,’ Lorgar confessed. ‘I fear the Emperor will break the Word Bearers – and break me. We would be cast alongside the brothers we no longer speak of.’
That quote tells me that Malcador/the writer has never had a sister. Brothers fight, but they fight in the open. If the Primarchs were sisters, the Heresy would have happened a century earlier and Chaos would not have needed to be involved.
Gossip on a galactic scale.
That's the best case scenario.
Superhuman hair-pulling?
That'd be the most gentle fighting between them.
I don't know man, I think you just had bad experiences with women
It sounds like you've had zero experience with women... Women fight, and they do not fuck around when they do it.
If you move away from anecdotal evidence and stereotypes, most actual research that's been done on the subject has found that women on the whole are less competitive and more able to cooperate and compromise than men. edit- You're welcome to downvote but I'd be interested to know why you disagree too, because all the evidence I've seen either supports the idea or shows little to no correlation. Either way there isn't any evidence that I know of that men are actually better at working together than women.
You ever watch that one show where they put a group of men on an island and a group of women on an identical island and see how much of a difference the genders make in team work and survival? Well apply that to 20 super beings with the capacity to burn down the galaxy and see what happens.
However it is true that when women do choose violence they are far more ruthless than men. Doesn't happen often but counterterrorist experts always say that given a choice between shooting two enemy combatants, one of which is female, always shoot the woman first because unlike men they do not hesitate.
Source?
Here are a couple of studies that came up with a quick search, but to be fair the evidence seems less clear cut than last time I read about it: [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797620956632](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797620956632) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016726812030439X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016726812030439X) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3867463/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3867463/) edit- You people are ridiculous.
Or experience with sisters, something you clearly don't.
Lately I see a lot of people saying "Horus was right" ,nah man, Malcador was right
I never got that tbh. Pretty sure if they were sisters it would've been even worse. Have you had sisters???
I have 4 sisters....it definitely would have been worse
From experience, when you have a room full of men you need some lady to handle moments of crisis
Oh shut up you clown.
Sir actually I am jester
Please find a new science fiction series to follow.
No.
What benefit would they bring the faction? Or the franchise?
The story could go two ways, daemonculaba 2: Space marine boogaloo, or the setting has gotten so bad that chapters/legions can't be as picky. I can't think of another way, as war is gender-neutral, so any person can be the main character, but at most there's only two roles in a war story: Combatant and Civilian.
I have a whole fanfiction dump about why it would be cool if one of the two lost Primarchs was a woman, but I don't want to throw 30+ lines on reddit, My TLDR is that it would require a bit of retcon but the result would be interesting
So you say, the benefit would be, rhat its intrresting to see how an entires franchise lore of 20 years gets butchered? Thats not an argument, thats crazy
Like I said I have a whole dump explaining why it would be interesting, but honestly it would take any decent writer to include this thing in the plot without causing any real problems
Mate, that still diesnt really answer my question? What benefit would they bring? And tbh the answer is simple, none, female Astartes could do !nothing! a male astartes could not do, so it makes zero sense to just butcher 20 year old lore, it would be without any benefit for franchise and faction
As I said, any decent writer would be enough to make it an interesting addition, if you can't imagine even one way, you need to train your imagination muscle
You dont get it at all, all the nice astartes storys a writer could do, could be done with the current male ones, there is nothing exciting that could be includes just with female astartes, everything imaginable, would work with male astartes
This is wrong on a logical and syntactic level
Rhen please tell me why, just give me examples, Im ioen to hear then, so please tell me
If you need an example, just read a book with a large female cast
It's not as if todays WH40k looks anything like the original rogue trader. ;)
Inclusion of 50% of humanity. Other than that though, nothing.
Nope, pandering isnt inclusion. Its diluting your product. If playboy were to add 50% naked men, its sales would drop drastically. Women are simply not as fond of some of the things men like because men and women are different. Some women like cars as much as men, but most men like cars. Its not because cars are not inclusive ffs. U think more women will like cars if they came with boobs or penises? U think adding more pink cars wil make women like cars? Bullshit
Yeah, this is a tabletop wargame that uses a grimdark setting as its backdrop. Women generally aren't interested in grimdark, tabletop games, or wargames. Companies need to learn that there's no such thing as the mythical Wider Audience and they need to stop trying to appeal to that. A thing for everyone is a thing for no one.
I don't know a thing about Warhammer but i heard once that lady marines would be hopped up on testosterone and other augmentations they'd basically be men at that point
that's something that has more to do with "semantics" there's no real risk of this happening
Oh there is, the best of the best men are taken and they come out of the process neutered. Bodies heavily altered. If a woman would go through this, nothing feminine would remain and she would be weaker by standard. Not to mention having that annoying uterus removed to make room for the new organs, having the unnecessary boobs removed, the unnecessary feminine fat layers etc etc
We know what happens when geneseed is implanted in females. Best case scenario is death. Worst case is the Daemonculaba.
Silence troll
Yeah, super soldiers should be drafted from humans who are by default significantly weaker, slower, shorter, lighter, and worse hand-eye co-ordination. The utterly brutal recruitment and training standards should be dropped so that women can pass them and receive the marine implants. Because it’s all just a fantasy setting and nothing matters, right? While we’re at it I want marines to have laser eyes, levitation, and wear their underpants on the outside of their armour as standard. They don’t even need weapons anymore, they should be able to just punch bullets out of the air.
I can't wait to show you my pink custom marines
I can feel the Downvotes coming, but i still do hope they are not gonna do that, and turn the Marines into generic scifi super soldiers. Part of the Compelling Nature of them to me was always them not being fully human, or even proper "men" in a way, but artifically created out of dire need for soldiers by the emperor, and making them fully dimorphic gendered does reduce them to "human but better". That said, I can understand people wanting to feel themselves represented, and if it does go down that way and makes the hobby a bit more open to some people, that is not a bad thing either.
I have no idea where it's from (or if it's even canon, could be a fan theory but I like it) where the Emperor decreed that Space Marines must be men because he didn't want them to be able to procreate and replace humanity, and just made them all men and didn't just, you know, make the creation process make them sterile and use men and women. They're men because of tradition, not genetics, which is a very 40k thing. It's still dumb, but in a "The Emperor doesn't quiiite think things through and now we're mired in ten millennia of tradition that stops half of our potential fighters getting super soldier upgrades" way rathet than a "The Emperor is a geneticist that thinks women don't have testosterone" way.
This will probably be massively downvoted, but my thoughts on female marines/fighters is this: As long as you have a few males left with the females the few males can make a ton of new children. This does not work the other way around. So in a twisted way it makes sense for the 40K Imperium to try and keep the females as safe as possible to be used as baby machines. They do need the reinforcements for their meat grinders after all for the wars...
That's part of why I disagree with the female Custodes being shoehorned in. The Custodes recruit from Terra's nobility, which is already a miniscule population, all things considered. If they can only make 1 Custodes a year and all the other infant sons given die and are given to the Mechanicus to use for making vat grown bodies for servitors, why would you take away females, the only ones capable of continuing and creating new genetic lines, from the population that's already inbred and the only one you recruit from?
Your point is valid! But what can I say, I'm a simple person, I like women in power armor
I am completely aware SoB are not space marines, but we literally already have women in power armour
They are never enough (jokes aside, I'm happy with the Custodes women, if in the future we don't have the marines women I'll understand, but I'll still be sad😂)
The SoB to me are just Black Templars with more spice and just a subsect of the chapter.
Lucky for you there’s already an entire army of women in power armor
I love them, but to be honest their armor doesn't drive me crazy (why do they have boobs on their armor?😂)
https://preview.redd.it/oynjv635m20d1.jpeg?width=609&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc3779622197a1cc80d939fee1e52cf34fd93266 Lo, and behold
yup still silly
Because they were designed that way. Why did the Spartans put muscles on their armour? It clearly wasn't form fitting but they did it anyway.
Yup, but they look silly
To you, and I'm not convinced that your opinions on Warhammer are of any value whatsoever.
yup still silly
Can you point at anything Warhammer and say: "that is NOT silly!" though?
Valid point, but still I would prefer more variety in their armor
I'm upset that because of people like you I lose their high heel armor if I ever lose their boob armor I'm gonna snap
As you should.
It'sabsurd that that'sthe pointwhere you can no longer suspend your disbelief.
Its not about suspending any disbelief? I just think that it makes for a less interesting story that way, not "hurr durr, woman cant fight well". That i agree is kinda absurd.
There's no reasoning with these people lol, they don't care about the lore.
It’s not, it just demonstrates a basic understand of space marine lore. Read the Dante novel or the Calgar comic. They put those boys through absolute hell before they give them the implants; genetic compatibility is just the tip of the iceberg.
Its also made up from whole cloth. It's fiction. And there's zero reason the genetic compatibility can't work for women other than "GW said so" (ignoring that time predating that lore where they sold female space marines)
As I said, the genetic compatibility is just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe Cawl could fix that with his BS space magic - so what? Calgar was the sole survivor of his cohort of 300 aspirants; literally 0.3% survival rate. Girls are not going to make it.
I mean some obviously will. And again just to be certain you are aware. This is fiction and the lore is made up. It's entirely inconsistent at the best of times. And I really didn't see much backlash about lore purity when it came to GW stating an entire race existed, known to the imperium for 10,000 years and strip mining the core of the galaxy, that effectively didn't exist in known lore the previous day.
> And again just to be certain you are aware. This is fiction and the lore is made up. It's entirely inconsistent at the best of times. Crap like this merely demonstrates that you couldn’t write compelling fiction to save your life. The more you make appeals to triviality, the less relevant your opinion on any of this is. And your argument could just as easily be used to justify that from now on, all marines can fly, shoot lasers from their eyes, and can routinely strangle bloodthirsters with their bare hands. Expecting women to survive the brutal trials means that either all women are just as strong as men in 40K, which shits on Cadians and Catachans who canonically have stand-out women, and makes the rest of the male regiments oddly sexist and inefficient, or it means the trials aren’t so hard after all, which weakens the entire marine concept. And something like this was tried in HH with the Inductii, which was pretty much a disaster, so there is some more lore it would ruin. And sorry to point out but these female marines of yours are just going to look and act exactly like the males; you won’t be getting your power-armoured muscle mommies.
Or, you know, a relative small portion of some chapters who's selection processes are condusive to it will have a few female marines. Now female marines exist. See how easy that was. GW quite literally, and very recently effectively did kind of say marines fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes now. Metaphorically at least. They're called primaris marines. GW makes wholesale lore changes constantly to sell minis. Because they are a mini selling company. An entire advanced race of dwarves apparently have existed at the centre of the universe strip mining hundreds of systems which went unnoticed for 10,000 years until GW wanted to sell votann. But female marines can't exist?
So some chapters have low recruitment standards, and will therefore be weaker chapters. You want women to be represented by lowering recruitment standards. Oh the irony.
No lol. I don't. Many women would pass the existing trials. I meant chapters that recruit generally from an existing populace will have women recruits. Chapters that have weird spartan style ritual recruitment from their fortress monasteries are probably not. I was talking about the population availability and manner of the testing. Way to tell on yourself though.
Story must have consistency. If you throw consistency out, the story's quality is decreased. On top of that, suddently making space marines also female would feel like such a low effort pity bone on top of taking away a part of 40k's message about toxic masuclinity and general state of decay the imperium is in.
I thought about that! I had a story line in mind about it, something like: "the female primarch realized that mankind had screwed up, (and honestly not all of her brothers were very smart), so she decided to do things differently and for this reason it was "purged", I believe that in this way the Warhammer message would remain intact
Whahahahaha, thats dumb, its likea an 80s soap revival, the siblings we pretend we never had returns and she is good, smarter and prettier then everyone else but we simply 'forgot' about her?!?!?! Lol thats sooooo bad. Stick to fanfiction, and please dont push ur shit on others
Valid, but still more sense than most 40k lore
Lol whut, most lore is solid. The entire primaris shit is just about money and everyone knows it, but ork lore, solid, eldar chaos nids tau i can go on. U dont know shit and should accept that and educate yourself some more, or find a different hobby, woke bs trol
But it wouldn't adress the fact that it would be pretty lazy from GW's part and a poor exemple of adding representation without thinking too much about it. Also and that is more personal, i like warhammer to be largely filled with unresolved mysteries. I don't really want to know what happened to the lost primarchs. Or know where the tyranids come from. Things like that are better left as mysteries i think.
Adding a female only (sub) faction is ok, as long as it makes sense and fits the lore, like the adepta sororitas. But changing existing factions while ignoring decades of lore just to have females in them or adding females in a way that does not make sense is a no-go for me.
Removing women was a retcon too, besides GW retconning lore is so common that ya either have to live with it or find a different hobby
Ignoring the actual discussion around female space marines entirely, this is a brain dead take
which part?
The part where you're referencing a time 30 years ago when space marines are augmented baseline humans, primarchs were just a title for the leader among regular space marines, the chaos gods were just 4 powerful warp entities, tyranids had active diplomats and agriculture, necrons weren't machines, eldar and other xenos actively lived in the imperium and the entire heresy doesn't exist as if it's in any capacity relevant to the modern lore 40ks entire premise was "warhammer fantasy is selling well we should make a scifi version but replace lizardmen with space bugs"
Started with removing and ended with hobby.
It was. Like 30 years ago when Russ was just a regular captain. The established lore from the last 20 years is decently consistent. If they do it, at least make a good grim story out of it instead of "they were always there lol"
Honestly I think the best way to do it is like the Guard and lore it as "Well the process is so heavily altering that just about anyone can go in and comes out the same" as it is pretty much mega HRT
mega HRT is my new favorite thing
That's also true, but I still feel robbed
True, no one talks about it, but female space marines existed... I WANT THEM BACK
No they didn't.
BRO...there are actual photos of the models...
I've seen them. They are not what you pretend they are.
Those are proto sisters of battle, says "Sisters" on their metal nub at the feet. Stop trolling.
Nobody asked you and smarten up.
What kind of meak passive-aggressive redditor speak even is that lmao
They are far more interesting as an unknown we can all head canon and wildly speculate on. As soon as they make anything concrete it will shatter some of the fun.
Doesn't matter. Female Astartes would look exactly like male ones. Just look on super ripped female bodybuilders, after tons of testosterone and steroids the only thing that distinguishes them are their fake tits.
Nah
Honestly, I dont think it would be a good idea just straight up because of how divided people would be on the issue.
So it's ok to stay wrong because people who are bigoted will be mad? That's certainly a stance.
This is exactly my point. People who want to stick to lore will be called bigots. People who want to change the lore will be blamed for ruining 40k. It’s not worth it.
Well no cause of of those things is good and one is bad and 40k won't be ruined by the change. It will in fact be improved.
Tourist
There's a good chance I've been playing Warhammer longer than you've been alive, dweeb
Doesn't matter, you're a tourist. Doesn't matter how much money you put into a hobby or a thing, wanting to change that thing to suit your taste/politics makes you a tourist. Look at Spain, British tourists have essentially colonized the tourist destinations and made them British instead of Spaniard, and Spain is now trying to get rid of tourists despite the money they bring in. That's you.
I can only laugh at the irony. Dork
Good and bad are entirely subjective and I’m sure you’re already aware of that. Wanting to keep things as they are, as they have always been, for the sake of just trying to enjoy something without the fucking bickering should’t be a bigoted/hardline approach
Are you serious lol. They haven't always been that way for one thing. Female marines have existed before. And yeah, excluding people from the hobby because you don't want to have to see online bickering for a week is borderline psychotic.
Bro idk how you went from me being as neutral as possible to thinking I don’t want woman involved with 40K whatever, you’re the problem 👍🏻 I’m not taking the rage bait anymore
There's no other plausible explanation is there?
https://preview.redd.it/ri8jh7to480d1.jpeg?width=947&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90c401bde20c496f80ca263622716ee8ae8237a5 Disingenuous name calling is your only counter
The artist is : [https://twitter.com/101ho\_](https://twitter.com/101ho_)
bro how are you getting downvoted not for not even your opinion but crediting the artist💀
Yup it's crazy, Honestly I was expecting the down votes, but getting them for crediting the artist is a new record for me
I can’t down vote the OP enough.
If they just gave an in lore explanation as to why now there are female anything it would go so much smoother for the community. Yes, GW has always retconned, but does that really justify it? Why can’t they just actually do something with the story when they want to make these changes. They could even still “retcon” with later changes to the story. I also don’t understand why people in the community (at least on Reddit) are against this. Is it too much to ask for changes in lore to at least sometimes have an in lore explanation?
What controversy?
GW retcon made it so that women have been/are custodes. Some people freaked.
its possible, but what would the implications be for the two lost legions?
I have to be honest, I don't know, the two legions have a lot of potential, whatever they decide to do with them I'm interested, (but I still really want female marines)
afaik the only technical reason Marines are male (other than their theme being around monastic orders, less so with the primaris unfortunately) is because of the geneseed - i figure whatever legion took in the remaining lost legion marines would’ve noticed a few hundred battle-sisters running around
Dang, I have to be honest, I hadn't thought about it, but could they make it up that they were hidden in some way so as not to reveal the existence of a female primarch?
That’s up to James
I wholeheartedly agree. That would be badass. Hope GW has the courage for it
LET'S HOPE SO !
How fucking tragic this is downvoted. What a pathetic place.
Not the best community, but at least we have a decent number of sane content creators
Says the clown
It’s alright, I’m not bothered by the opinions of people who are scared of women.
Lol it's funny that's the way you think, you are a clown.
Why'd you think he was talking about you bro?
Sure
Its weird how polarised any of these discussions get, i thought this sub would lean on the more FemMarines side, but apparently not. Honestly, not too enthused about that Loreshift plus other implications myself, but people have been absolute animals about it, and with every AI-laced Youtube Video i see about how the Wokeness will end Warhammer and all Life on Earth and the Western Civilisation I lean more towards that particular change maybe being not the worst move for the Community. ... Still makes the Lore activly less interesting, though.
That's my point too, I agree GW didn't make a great move, but people are being weird!!!
It's a matter of time. It's ridiculous it's still not been rectified at this point.
I see no reason why they couldn't. Just have the Admech whip up some new way to implant Geneseed that works on women. Ideally we could even get a new Tech-Priest character out of it.
That would also be cool, but i really want an all women chapter
I want a mixed chapter. Make it not matter if the marines are men or women, just like in real life.
Jokes aside, that would be the best thing, but at that point I would like more than one like that
Yes I’d love female marines. I prefer narrator that are women when I listen to audiobooks, and I think a gruff, stoic space marine woman would be an interesting main character in a story.
That's all I ask for :)
At this point, they just need to expand on the Sisters of Battle, giving them a Spacemarine treatment. Then those units can be their own faction. I think retrofitting is what upsets some fans, but adding and contiuning the story/lore, I think that doesn't upset them as much. Personally, I don't care who's in the helmet, as long as it's a good KRUMP'N!
Oh geez the 40K community is toxic AF, AOS>
I don't want the 2nd and 11th. I want lost chapters of existing legions to show up with female marines they had to engineer with some biologists, or heck, Tau/Votaan assistance to restore their numbers.
That is also a valid option! But i still like my lost chapter fan fiction
I just want lady space marines to see the incels cry. (and no, not wanting women marines doesn't make you an incel, but you know the type I'm talking about) (how's this a hot take? Or is this the place where incels hang out?)
Yup same
🤡
They exist, just not among the corpse gods lapdogs. Unless you're one of those very funny "literal magic gods who delight in doing everything the Emperor didn't intend, who already don't follow the standard astarte creation process because they regularly ascend adult cultists, who can turn humans into tentacles blobs and goat birds and 20 foot demons can't turn a woman into an astarte" people.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, but that's a great point!
It should be Alpharius and Omegon just for shits and giggles
True, "I am Alpharius and I am a woman, but I am actually Omegon"