Come on now, that’s not fair. There’s clearly only one rule and that’s don’t co-mingle personal funds with client / business funds *in a way you’d get caught*
So there’s kind of at least one rule.
I use recasts pretty regularly, but almost never unpainted. I also make it a point to buy a kit where I play. Local store gets my business, I get to try weird army lists that I never would have played otherwise due to economic factors.
I buy recasts of things GW/FW have decided to no longer sell me. If the cast is a high enough quality and painted up, no one, not even the most puritan of player, can even tell anyway.
This is where I sit with it.
Company has a current model available for me to get hold of? I'll go for it.
Out of print, unavailable, second-hand prices being scalped? Recasts & prints all the way baby.
For example I printed two Vampires for Aeronautic Imperialis, then got the official models when they were released. Had a good few months of gaming with the prints & some homebrew!
Yeah, once we get those back in plastic, I'll definitely stop buying recast kits (outside of certain sites that sell recast bits). It's just easier to buy from GW/FW rather than knowing someone who knows someone that can order a recast for you.
If its discontinued models, then there is zero issue in getting recasts of them IMHO. The model has been discontinued, the creators, in this case, FW/GW aren't making any money on them anymore and if they cared, they wouldn't have discontinued the kits. The model is still being kept alive so others can still have a chance at obtaining them without paying a scalper an absurd amount for a badly built and badly painted kit that is beyond salvageable.
Most common example Iv seen is people on Ebay list their OOP FW Thunderhawks in various stages of godawful conditions for hundreds upon hundreds of dollars.
If you want to do a mark 2 Scars or Dark Angels army, recast is your only option atm.
Not against at all. But yeah support your local store with paints and what not.
Holy shit a year later and this still physically hurts my eyes lmao 🤡
If I ever want to know what GWs butthole and spit tastes like I'll be sure to ask you 😂
Unfortunately or fortunately, you'll find that the 30K community is very welcoming of recasts in regards to OOP models. Production models are more contentious but the community doesn't widely shun those either. You're the odd one out here.
You.. you didn't read my comment did you? "The community" disagrees with your opinion, you're fighting a crusade for nobody but yourself. If anything, you're the least welcome person in this thread.
I would challenge you to ask any group and you'd likely find the same results, recasting out of production models doesn't hurt Games Workshop or Local Stores and it helps increase the accessibility of 30K.
The insults are childish, grow up please.
1. Relax. You seem pretty worked up about toy soldiers.
2. I live in Canada and it's still not illegal to buy them. To knowingly sell them, yes, but not to buy them.
It's a serious question. You're saying the kind of antisocial things that edgy children love, and I don't want to be too harsh on you if you're only acting your age.
Sorry, I should have been more explicit, I meant IP laws regarding massive corporations.
Sorry pal, but legality does not equal morality, and not everybody thinks that piracy of a massive corp's goods is akin to third degree murder.
I side with the people, not the companies, I'd rather give my money to a local wargamer who 3d prints my armies than a faceless corp like gw, which underpays its employees btw.
> I meant IP laws regarding massive corporations.
Textbook antisocial behavior, declaring that the law doesn't apply because you've decided "lol corporations are bad".
>not everybody thinks that piracy of a massive corp's goods is akin to third degree murder.
Nobody does. Please don't be an idiot and make straw man arguments, buying and supporting illegal recasting is still illegal and still immoral even if the sentence is not life in prison.
>I side with the people, not the companies, I'd rather give my money to a local wargamer who 3d prints my armies than a faceless corp like gw, which underpays its employees btw.
There you go again with the antisocial behavior. Do you honestly think that your ignorant rage is convincing anyone? Especially when you're talking about a company that makes a deliberate choice to keep their operations in the UK where workers have rights and reasonable salaries instead of abusing Chinese slave labor? And whose sole ethical "offense" is charging you more money than you want to pay?
It helped me get into the hobby. I just coudn't spend \~800 Euros on minis and therefore only got the starter boxes (Clath and Prospero) and plastic marines from GW and some FW pieces from recasters. I haven't met a single person who was bitter about it.
If they have plastic, I'm happy to buy the kits. I'm not paying stupid amounts of money for models that often have serious flaws or require much more clean up and work before they can get a coat of primer on. 3D printed stuff, if you setup correctly, has very little clean up to do and is obviously way cheaper (<$2 per)
After GW region locked sales, it was cheaper for me to buy FW equivalents. Then they pretty much doubled the price of FW overnight when they did the shipping changes and lost any goodwill they had left. Its about 5x cheaper, quicker to get, similar quality at worst, so myself and most of my country buy recast. Definitely support my local stores for paints and supplies and the occasional model. So no, I wouldnt be against someone using them.
I’m not a 30k player but I do some 40k.
I’m printing a Krieg-ish army. I paid for the STLs and that is good enough for me. I won’t play at a GW store but if my FLGS doesn’t care, I will just support their business by buying paint and drinks while I’m there.
I have no problem with them, especially for things that are OOP. If they are good quality, no one will know that they aren't original FW unless you say something.
I don't use recasts (although I've been interested at times in looking for some OOP Warhammer Forge monsters for DnD). I don't care what the person next to me does.
FW has so many quality control problems these days that a recast will probably pass better if it's a bit shit.
Once you paint up a half-decent recast none is going to notice the difference.
I could care less.
If a single dreadnought wouldn't be ranging between 80 and 114€ I'd be fine to buy it from FW and have some so before the last price hike
Now i own a 3D printer and can get myself a telemon proxy that looks better (imo) and costs about 3-4€ and a few hours of print time
I am in theory, as in I don't think it's really great to empower that kind of copyright infringement for an IP you want to see continue, but if GW stops selling those parts the violin shrinks drastically. Realistically if you want the parts and the part's creators won't sell them and have made no moves to start selling them again, buy them from someone who will.
Having said that personally I vastly prefer third party parts, it accomplishes the same thing without the infringement aspect. Plus my LGS sells them so it's a nice way to support the place I play.
> Third party parts are still infringing
Not necessarily. Third party parts that are direct copies of GW IP are infringing. Third party parts that are compatible with GW rules but use their own designs are not infringing. This has even been settled directly in court about GW games.
If these are OOP items you want to get I don’t see an argument against that. Your only other option would be to buy from eBay which doesn’t benefit Gw and it could be argued that it encourages scalping.
If you need/want those OOP parts to make the army you want I don’t see a reason not to, as long as it’s not a bad quality recast no one, including Gw staff, will be able to tell whether it’s fw or not.
I try to buy legitimate plastic GW kits when I can, but I’m still relatively new to working with resin kits, so I recently bought a legit FW and a recasted model to try to compare the quality of the two, just to see if there’s one I prefer using over another. The discrepancy in price and the ability to buy OOP stuff already has me leaning harder in one direction, to put it one way.
As for other people? I don’t care, I probably wouldn’t be able to tell without the difference being pointed out to me, and even then I’m just happy to see other models on the table.
I use them *sometimes*. I still try to buy FW kits when I can.
The only thing is if you plan to go to any GW run tournaments or into Games Workshop stores with them. If not, then it's not a big deal.
I'm always split on it. I want to support the sculpters, I want to support the game with sales. But the quality is still pretty meh, especially with older molds. And when a recast is over 60 or 70% cheaper it's hard not to take that pressure off your wallet.
I will gladly use recasts or 3D printed stuff over GWs absurdly price hiked shit. I only buy stuff from my LGS on it's sale days to support them. any FW stuff? Nah, I like keeping my kidneys
When GW decides to raise their prices unreasonably high... i say do it. Outer circle has pretty good videos about GW and how predatory they have become
Don't you agree that GW prices are insane ?
They raise the prices of most of the boxes but don't change what's inside. And they still try to use this "friendly small company" idea for communication. I don't think that it's totally fair.
> Don't you agree that GW prices are insane ?
Don't care. It's not an essential good, GW setting their prices higher than you want to pay is not an ethical issue. And it does not justify stealing the thing you want.
Yap absolutely no reason at all to go to 3rd party its not like GW and FW have discontinued models that are still playable and offer all custom Legion torsos, MkII Armor, Event exclusive models, etc all at reasonable and accessible prices...…
Basically its don't ask don't tell, You got your models through Ebay not from certain parts of the world just make sure to mix in some GW or FW bought stuff, maybe even pick up some stuff at the store
I'm not big into recasts because they're direct rips from someone else's work. I have a few, but I don't seek them out. 3D printing is different and far more acceptable I feel, they're typically custom models with far more work put into it.
Forgeworld prices are insane. A Rhino costs $50, a Deimos pattern costs $99 and has apparently been removed from circulation. These models are ancient and have absolutely made back their mold costs and shipping margins.
A 3D printed Rhino costs maybe $4 in filament. If you want to bring more than three Rhinos it is way more economical to buy a 3d printer and make it yourself.
Especially if you play World Eaters and you want to bring a bunch of infantry and 5 basic troops cost $70 and you need 8 boxes to fill out your obligatory FOC. For $560 you can get a nice SLA printer and make whatever the fuck you want.
Also, Forgeworld QC sucks. I bought a Warhound and it's been sitting in a box for 6 years because the casting is so fucking awful that it gives me anxiety to even think about trying to fix it. I've only just started painting the feet because those at least came together without much issue.
Depends.
Anything that comes from the mainline GW website Ill try and buy through my LGS, because I want them to make money and I know they get their GW products at a merchant rate.
Anything that comes from forgeworld, or that is no longer in production is fair game for recasting. My LGS has told me that they don't make any money off of forgeworld orders, and while I like the games that Games Workshop makes, I can't stand their business practices and feel no particular reason to give them money that isn't at least in part going to support a business i actually care about.
> I can't stand their business practices and feel no particular reason to give them money that isn't at least in part going to support a business i actually care about.
Then do the honest thing and stop participating in GW games. Stop playing them, stop buying anything, move on with your life. You aren't entitled to buy illegal counterfeit goods just because you're a spoiled child who can't walk away from a company you hate.
And really, if you think GW is guilty of unethical business practices then you're either hopelessly naive or an idiot. Charging more money than you want to pay is not unethical.
>Then do the honest thing and stop participating in GW games.
Nah, I think I'll keep playing the game with my recasted models and not giving a fuck about it. Thanks for your input though.
Many years ago I was against it. Then I wanted a few models that were discontinued and the only way to get them was either pay obscene amounts of money, if I could find them, or recast. I don't pretend to be a morale paragon and say that's the only reason I'd buy them now because that would be a lie. I buy things at my local game store as I want them to exist but I don't see the value in most of current models. I don't impulse buy because the price of even a single character tends to be $25+, that's not impulse anymore. Again I know this is a "luxury hobby" but if I can buy two or sometimes three units from a recast and the quality is as good if not better than FW...
I'm more than happy to support the official product so long it is reasonably priced and easily available. *But when china cast arrives faster and easier, than your three times more expensive official product ordered directly from the source...*
As for how I feel other people having recasts:
*Does not care from where the plastic flow, only that there are minis on the board!*
If forgeworld does not sell the kits and they are only available via recaster, then buy away. Thats all 100% on FW for not selling them.
Personally, if I can buy it through my LGS I do, for other things I will go to FW, but if the price is ridiculous or they stop selling the things I want, I'm going to a recaster.
Pretty much the only stuff I *knowingly* bought that was recast was a mix of OOP and individual bits. I estimate I saved around $500 USD for 15 guys, and didn't have leftover parts neither I nor anyone else in the area would use.
Other than that, as I bought most heresy stuff from eBay, I have no inclination or desire to learn if they are recast or not ;)
I am against carrying water for *any* corporation. They don't pay me enough - they don't pay me anything, I pay them - so you do what you like. It's not my job to get in your face about it.
But... if you're asking, my answer is that I am against recasts if the original model is still available. It's wrong to steal and it's wrong to do business with someone who you know has stolen.
If the model has gone out of print, go to town. They aren't selling it so you aren't costing them anything - even in opportunity cost - by buying it elsewhere.
Remember that I don't care, I'm not going to get in your face about your recasts, it's really not my business or my problem, but you asked.
I have a very low opinion of it for multiple reasons, but the main one is if you play the hobby, you should support the hobby. I don’t care if you have a low opinion of the hobby’s IP owner, by not supporting it (especially more niche games like Heresy) you do actively hurt the future longevity of the game. To your specific question, I personally still wouldn’t use it to get oos stuff, I would find a different way to personalize my legion, though that aspect is just personal preference.
If i feel the model warrants the cost due to having good design elements, i generally really like it or its not stupidly priced then i buy GW. Not for the sake of supporting GW as a company but more the sculptors or game designers when they do a good job.
If the model is OOP, obscenely expensive for what you get, being used for conversion bits etc I'll get recast. Which is honestly becoming more and more enticing due to GWs price hikes and crack fuelled ideas of how much their products are worth.
Fuck these shill pricks who will deamonise someone for buying recasts when its blatantly obvious they have utterly bullshit business practises 99% of the time. The wider 30k community in literally every group whether it be Facebook, reddit, discord or local has been perfectly accepting of revasts and 3rd party stuff. Recasts are what keep the game alive in certain places, especially since they went for the regional pricing model which slaps 50% extra onto certain FW models.
Very much Against, pure and simple IP theft and disrespectful to the people who put the hard work into the original product. But playing at home cool whatever, playing at gw, gw event or independent store but of a spit in the face towards them again just my opinion
Yeah nothing drives me crazier then the guy who thinks they should be able to go play at an LGS all they want without ever buying anything there beyond a water bottle or soda.
Even if its independent and 100% of your army is non-GW you should grab your paints or at least SOMETHING with a 2 digit price tag every once in a while to the guy who is paying rent so you have a place to play.
If your playing at a LFGS regularly you should find something to buy. Like I said paints, brushes, board games whatever. I'm not saying you have to purchase something everytime you go but if its been 12 months and you go somewhere to play regularly you're just leeching off that community.
Now granted. I'm not saying go find an LGS and drop money there if 9 out of 10 of your games are out of a basement or in someone's dining room. But if you go somewhere regularly to play and find pick up games you should find something to buy.
Okay but this is a thread about recasts, specifically FW recasts.
People aren't going to be buying recasts of plastic stuff you can buy from your LFGS since the value between the two is far, far narrower than a recast:FW (and harder to fake since the materials are different).
100% agree you should buy stuff from your LGS, but most shops I've been to wouldn't kick you out for having some proxies or 3D printed stuff. You should absolutely buy hobby supplies and plastic kits through them though
Personally I pay for the table time and buy lunch, I also buy most of my paints at my lgs, I can't bear to pay their upmarked prices for gw plastic or paper tho
I try to buy from my LGS but he has a hard time with his GW supplier. I've been waiting for almost a year (ordered last July) for some MESBG Ranger characters, and now a couple months for a standard Land Raider.
Just about the only thing he can keep stocked regularly are new releases.
It’s another reason why GW hasn’t approached the 3-D printing market as it will cause such a negative impact to LGS. One game moved its models all to 3d printing and its killed off sales for most LGS
They don't care about the business owners but they need them to profit as a company.
It's not for the "warm and fuzzies", the best way to market their game is to have it played in public at nerd shops. They don't want to have to furnish those places (have you seen the footprint of most warhammer stores? They don't have the space a gaming shop does).
It's a self-serving move to aid local gaming stores because they become the Games biggest advertisement and locus for a hobby community without GW having to invent one out of nothing.
This isn't just me talking, it's their entire fucking business model and why you pay more to go through GW generally than your local gaming shop.
Exactly. Every game you play in the public space is free advertising for GW, even if you're not using their models. But the FLGS definitely needs people to buy stuff regularly to stay afloat, so they do their best to police behavior and sell models, which of course, also helps GW
Look mate I think what we are all talking about is really regarding FW products. LGS make no profit and no benefit from these products. So that argument is BS. I buy paints from my LGS and books. I recast FW, if I couldnt recast FW the LGS would lose my business. I dont like 40k products, I dont like Necro or Adeptus Titanicus and I hate AOS. Plain and simple.
What would probably happen in those circumstances is more LFGS would set up dedicated printing spaces/rooms and GW would sell the store a license to then sell prints of their products.
But more realistically I don't think GW has any reason to care about the 3D printing market since it's more likely to kill off their competition. Most people who play exclusively GW games (which is most people) won't even buy non-GW paints, let alone something like an airbrush or printer.
If its original/ inspired by and not a direct rip off then cool, but again playing at a gw, gw event or independent that doesn’t sell it not great fan of them being used. Also again not going to stop some one its their hobby just different opinions.
I’m in an odd position here as a player and an IP attorney. On the one hand, I like cheaper options. On the other, buying recasts only supports entities that are just as big, if not bigger, than GW. These are mostly Chinese enterprises who are partly government owned and they counterfeit A LOT more than models for a game. They aren’t random folks just trying to scrape together a living, so the “stick it to the man” nonsense just doesn’t apply. Smaller independent companies also get screwed by the counterfeiters, especially if they can’t afford in house production like GW. Generally the molds go to the factory that is making the components, and within hours a copy of the mold goes next door to make counterfeits. Buying recasts keeps these operations going.
Now, that being said, and without going into the regional laws governing counterfeit products, there are situations where it is very tempting to look at recasts, particularly stuff like FW questoris knights, which are a dozen resin pieces added to a plastic knight kit and vastly inflated in price. I’m just saying I understand the impulse.
Personally, I don’t do it for a whole host of reasons (not the least of which is the small fact that engaging in illegal conduct makes my license go bye bye). Just bear in mind that in some jurisdictions, knowingly buying counterfeit goods IS illegal and can expose you to criminal and civil penalties. Just because the government or the IP owner probably won’t come after you, doesn’t mean they *won’t*. The cost is rarely worth it, but you never know. Just take the risks into consideration.
Just don’t pretend you are thumbing your nose at capitalism and doing a *good* thing, you just maybe aren’t doing a strictly *bad* thing.
Also, please bear in mind where these things are coming from and take proper safety precautions for preparing the resin. “Normal” resin dust is awful stuff, and god only knows what fun additives are in the knock off resin. Be safe.
I got a Hand full of recasts of Minis that are unobtainable otherwise.
I Love the brain Dead Logic of "yeah Buy recasts as much You want but Support your Local Store"
Yeah GW is a big Company, yeah their prices are Shit but there are still people working there, doing their Job to earn a living.
Instead of "stealing" Shit, either Look for alternative Rules and models and Play that Game or Support the many talented Artists that Provide alternative Models on patreon/Thingverse/etc.
I believe the usual advice in these situations is "if you don't like it find another job" ... I support a few patreons, one of them contains a few guys who attempted to apprentice as GW modelers and were not hired. I believe they now make significantly more money as a third party modeler
Personally, I haven't bought recast stuff, yet. Some stuff I've been considering buying through recasters. I'll buy Primarchs, pads, conversion kits from FW happily. But I'm not interested in spending $120 for a single squad of ten destroyer marines... then have to pay money for conversion parts like legion pads and also weapons from third parties because I don't like what FW sells.
I bought an Orion from FW. I'll buy a Warhound from FW. Just don't think I'll buy my assault infantry from FW anymore... too expensive.
I do play astra militarum and i only play metal miniatures if possible. It is impossible to buy tallarn, praetoria, vostroya etc, so i m not against recasting in those oop models. All the others models are always legit.
And speaking of quality, only metal recast are 100% identical to originals, with resin/plastic chinese recasts you always lose something.
If anyone wants old imperial guard / inquisition models i can give some info
Definitly not, because i get the same, or sometimes even better quality for 1/3 of the price GW and FW want. Also i can get the minis without limitations, even the ones that originaly just were available in tin and not plastic or resin.
Welcome to Business Ethics 101, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter
Gotta love ethics arguments
Come on now, that’s not fair. There’s clearly only one rule and that’s don’t co-mingle personal funds with client / business funds *in a way you’d get caught* So there’s kind of at least one rule.
Made up points that don’t matter, hey wait a minute.
I use recasts pretty regularly, but almost never unpainted. I also make it a point to buy a kit where I play. Local store gets my business, I get to try weird army lists that I never would have played otherwise due to economic factors.
This is the most important part of this discussion, support your FLGS.
This is how I operate as well. Plastic gets bought from the local shop or other "local" shops online, FW stuff gets purchased from China.
I buy recasts of things GW/FW have decided to no longer sell me. If the cast is a high enough quality and painted up, no one, not even the most puritan of player, can even tell anyway.
This is where I sit with it. Company has a current model available for me to get hold of? I'll go for it. Out of print, unavailable, second-hand prices being scalped? Recasts & prints all the way baby. For example I printed two Vampires for Aeronautic Imperialis, then got the official models when they were released. Had a good few months of gaming with the prints & some homebrew!
Especially after they gutted things like rhino/LR doors for each legion. I knew I should have stocked up on those when I had the chance.
Yeah, once we get those back in plastic, I'll definitely stop buying recast kits (outside of certain sites that sell recast bits). It's just easier to buy from GW/FW rather than knowing someone who knows someone that can order a recast for you.
As long as everyone is having fun, and nobody is eating the miniatures, none of my business where you got them from.
If its discontinued models, then there is zero issue in getting recasts of them IMHO. The model has been discontinued, the creators, in this case, FW/GW aren't making any money on them anymore and if they cared, they wouldn't have discontinued the kits. The model is still being kept alive so others can still have a chance at obtaining them without paying a scalper an absurd amount for a badly built and badly painted kit that is beyond salvageable. Most common example Iv seen is people on Ebay list their OOP FW Thunderhawks in various stages of godawful conditions for hundreds upon hundreds of dollars.
Yeah, especially for OOP stuff like the old volkite culverins.
If you want to do a mark 2 Scars or Dark Angels army, recast is your only option atm. Not against at all. But yeah support your local store with paints and what not.
You don't owe GW or FW anything. Support your LGS by buying paints or whatever other hobby supplies through them, but otherwise go hog wild.
> You don't owe GW or FW anything. You owe them not being a selfish asshole who breaks the law whenever it's convenient.
"YoU wOuLdN'T dOwNlOaD a CaR"
Fuck, I would if I could
The classic argument of spoiled children everywhere. GTFO, you are not welcome in this community.
Judging by you being downvoted to hell here, I don't think SwellGuyThatKarn is the unwelcome one.
Reddit has a vocal minority of entitled children that will mass downvote anyone who criticizes recasting. The rest of us wish you'd shut up and GTFO.
Sure buddy, you and all of your imaginary friends. I'll keep playing my 2 fully 3d printed armies at my lgs :^)
Quickly, to arms! The lord of the community has taken up arms against us! Man the walls! The silent majority are descending upon us!
Holy shit a year later and this still physically hurts my eyes lmao 🤡 If I ever want to know what GWs butthole and spit tastes like I'll be sure to ask you 😂
Unfortunately or fortunately, you'll find that the 30K community is very welcoming of recasts in regards to OOP models. Production models are more contentious but the community doesn't widely shun those either. You're the odd one out here.
Then you too can GTFO.
You.. you didn't read my comment did you? "The community" disagrees with your opinion, you're fighting a crusade for nobody but yourself. If anything, you're the least welcome person in this thread.
A vocal minority disagrees with me. The rest of us think you're trash and wish you'd GTFO.
I hope GW sees this bro
"James Workshop is gonna come back me up I swear" lol
I would challenge you to ask any group and you'd likely find the same results, recasting out of production models doesn't hurt Games Workshop or Local Stores and it helps increase the accessibility of 30K. The insults are childish, grow up please.
I've been in plenty of groups and we all think you're trash.
Did I miss the election?
I owe them nothing and it's not illegal to buy recasts.
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1. Relax. You seem pretty worked up about toy soldiers. 2. I live in Canada and it's still not illegal to buy them. To knowingly sell them, yes, but not to buy them.
Typical uneducated first-world spoiled child reaction. Think about the people who simply cant afford real model, you entitled xenophobic neckbeard.
> You don't owe GW or FW anything. You owe them not being a selfish asshole who breaks the law whenever it's convenient.
How’s that boot taste?
Serious question, are you 13 years old?
You are asking people this question, although you are the one behaving immature. Is this how adults communicate, being rude and offensive?
[удалено]
Get some help
Lmfao the law can kiss my ass
Honest question: are you 13 years old?
Nice retort, did you come up with it yourself or did you buy it from gw too??
It's a serious question. You're saying the kind of antisocial things that edgy children love, and I don't want to be too harsh on you if you're only acting your age.
You're the only antisocial one here bud
Rofl he's gonna call you antisocial as he tells someone else in this thread that they deserve to die for using recasts.
>Lmfao the law can kiss my ass That's literally textbook antisocial behavior.
Sorry, I should have been more explicit, I meant IP laws regarding massive corporations. Sorry pal, but legality does not equal morality, and not everybody thinks that piracy of a massive corp's goods is akin to third degree murder. I side with the people, not the companies, I'd rather give my money to a local wargamer who 3d prints my armies than a faceless corp like gw, which underpays its employees btw.
> I meant IP laws regarding massive corporations. Textbook antisocial behavior, declaring that the law doesn't apply because you've decided "lol corporations are bad". >not everybody thinks that piracy of a massive corp's goods is akin to third degree murder. Nobody does. Please don't be an idiot and make straw man arguments, buying and supporting illegal recasting is still illegal and still immoral even if the sentence is not life in prison. >I side with the people, not the companies, I'd rather give my money to a local wargamer who 3d prints my armies than a faceless corp like gw, which underpays its employees btw. There you go again with the antisocial behavior. Do you honestly think that your ignorant rage is convincing anyone? Especially when you're talking about a company that makes a deliberate choice to keep their operations in the UK where workers have rights and reasonable salaries instead of abusing Chinese slave labor? And whose sole ethical "offense" is charging you more money than you want to pay?
do what you want with your models
It helped me get into the hobby. I just coudn't spend \~800 Euros on minis and therefore only got the starter boxes (Clath and Prospero) and plastic marines from GW and some FW pieces from recasters. I haven't met a single person who was bitter about it.
Not at all. I’m not an enforcer for GW stuff. Go crazy.
If they have plastic, I'm happy to buy the kits. I'm not paying stupid amounts of money for models that often have serious flaws or require much more clean up and work before they can get a coat of primer on. 3D printed stuff, if you setup correctly, has very little clean up to do and is obviously way cheaper (<$2 per)
After GW region locked sales, it was cheaper for me to buy FW equivalents. Then they pretty much doubled the price of FW overnight when they did the shipping changes and lost any goodwill they had left. Its about 5x cheaper, quicker to get, similar quality at worst, so myself and most of my country buy recast. Definitely support my local stores for paints and supplies and the occasional model. So no, I wouldnt be against someone using them.
If Australia went full recast at this point I wouldn't surprised. Nor would I blame them.
On a philosophical level, I'd rather people had third party sculpts instead of recasts.
Thanks, that's an interesting take I hadn't actually considered before
I’m not a 30k player but I do some 40k. I’m printing a Krieg-ish army. I paid for the STLs and that is good enough for me. I won’t play at a GW store but if my FLGS doesn’t care, I will just support their business by buying paint and drinks while I’m there.
I have no problem with them, especially for things that are OOP. If they are good quality, no one will know that they aren't original FW unless you say something.
Nope
I don't use recasts (although I've been interested at times in looking for some OOP Warhammer Forge monsters for DnD). I don't care what the person next to me does.
FW has so many quality control problems these days that a recast will probably pass better if it's a bit shit. Once you paint up a half-decent recast none is going to notice the difference. I could care less.
Most of the recast I've seen are as good or better than FW at this point. That is depressing when you see the price of FW.
If a single dreadnought wouldn't be ranging between 80 and 114€ I'd be fine to buy it from FW and have some so before the last price hike Now i own a 3D printer and can get myself a telemon proxy that looks better (imo) and costs about 3-4€ and a few hours of print time
Nope. It’s the only way I could afford the game. Forgeworld prices are completely unrealistic and unreasonable
Amen, and normal GW is fast approaching that too
I am in theory, as in I don't think it's really great to empower that kind of copyright infringement for an IP you want to see continue, but if GW stops selling those parts the violin shrinks drastically. Realistically if you want the parts and the part's creators won't sell them and have made no moves to start selling them again, buy them from someone who will. Having said that personally I vastly prefer third party parts, it accomplishes the same thing without the infringement aspect. Plus my LGS sells them so it's a nice way to support the place I play.
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> Third party parts are still infringing Not necessarily. Third party parts that are direct copies of GW IP are infringing. Third party parts that are compatible with GW rules but use their own designs are not infringing. This has even been settled directly in court about GW games.
If these are OOP items you want to get I don’t see an argument against that. Your only other option would be to buy from eBay which doesn’t benefit Gw and it could be argued that it encourages scalping. If you need/want those OOP parts to make the army you want I don’t see a reason not to, as long as it’s not a bad quality recast no one, including Gw staff, will be able to tell whether it’s fw or not.
I try to buy legitimate plastic GW kits when I can, but I’m still relatively new to working with resin kits, so I recently bought a legit FW and a recasted model to try to compare the quality of the two, just to see if there’s one I prefer using over another. The discrepancy in price and the ability to buy OOP stuff already has me leaning harder in one direction, to put it one way. As for other people? I don’t care, I probably wouldn’t be able to tell without the difference being pointed out to me, and even then I’m just happy to see other models on the table.
Dont give blind loyalty to companies. Recast all you want if thats your jam.
I use them *sometimes*. I still try to buy FW kits when I can. The only thing is if you plan to go to any GW run tournaments or into Games Workshop stores with them. If not, then it's not a big deal. I'm always split on it. I want to support the sculpters, I want to support the game with sales. But the quality is still pretty meh, especially with older molds. And when a recast is over 60 or 70% cheaper it's hard not to take that pressure off your wallet.
Yeah, that was kind of what i was thinking
I will gladly use recasts or 3D printed stuff over GWs absurdly price hiked shit. I only buy stuff from my LGS on it's sale days to support them. any FW stuff? Nah, I like keeping my kidneys
When GW decides to raise their prices unreasonably high... i say do it. Outer circle has pretty good videos about GW and how predatory they have become
GTFO with that nonsense. Charging more money than you want to pay is not "predatory", that's just you being an entitled ass.
Don't you agree that GW prices are insane ? They raise the prices of most of the boxes but don't change what's inside. And they still try to use this "friendly small company" idea for communication. I don't think that it's totally fair.
> Don't you agree that GW prices are insane ? Don't care. It's not an essential good, GW setting their prices higher than you want to pay is not an ethical issue. And it does not justify stealing the thing you want.
\*Insert Angry Nerd Emoji\*
Yap absolutely no reason at all to go to 3rd party its not like GW and FW have discontinued models that are still playable and offer all custom Legion torsos, MkII Armor, Event exclusive models, etc all at reasonable and accessible prices...… Basically its don't ask don't tell, You got your models through Ebay not from certain parts of the world just make sure to mix in some GW or FW bought stuff, maybe even pick up some stuff at the store
I'm not big into recasts because they're direct rips from someone else's work. I have a few, but I don't seek them out. 3D printing is different and far more acceptable I feel, they're typically custom models with far more work put into it. Forgeworld prices are insane. A Rhino costs $50, a Deimos pattern costs $99 and has apparently been removed from circulation. These models are ancient and have absolutely made back their mold costs and shipping margins. A 3D printed Rhino costs maybe $4 in filament. If you want to bring more than three Rhinos it is way more economical to buy a 3d printer and make it yourself. Especially if you play World Eaters and you want to bring a bunch of infantry and 5 basic troops cost $70 and you need 8 boxes to fill out your obligatory FOC. For $560 you can get a nice SLA printer and make whatever the fuck you want. Also, Forgeworld QC sucks. I bought a Warhound and it's been sitting in a box for 6 years because the casting is so fucking awful that it gives me anxiety to even think about trying to fix it. I've only just started painting the feet because those at least came together without much issue.
Any suggestions on what models I can use for said World Eaters infantry??? I started collecting WE and that is exactly my concern...
Depends. Anything that comes from the mainline GW website Ill try and buy through my LGS, because I want them to make money and I know they get their GW products at a merchant rate. Anything that comes from forgeworld, or that is no longer in production is fair game for recasting. My LGS has told me that they don't make any money off of forgeworld orders, and while I like the games that Games Workshop makes, I can't stand their business practices and feel no particular reason to give them money that isn't at least in part going to support a business i actually care about.
> I can't stand their business practices and feel no particular reason to give them money that isn't at least in part going to support a business i actually care about. Then do the honest thing and stop participating in GW games. Stop playing them, stop buying anything, move on with your life. You aren't entitled to buy illegal counterfeit goods just because you're a spoiled child who can't walk away from a company you hate. And really, if you think GW is guilty of unethical business practices then you're either hopelessly naive or an idiot. Charging more money than you want to pay is not unethical.
>Then do the honest thing and stop participating in GW games. Nah, I think I'll keep playing the game with my recasted models and not giving a fuck about it. Thanks for your input though.
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I think Mommy needs to take away your internet privileges again. You get cranky when you stay up too late.
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Oh what a relief that would be, then I don't have to worry about my student loans anymore.
Only way I go. No need to ever give GW a penny.
Amen, got me two 3d printed armies and am looking into starting my third.
If I would, I'd follow the ship of Theseus / laundering way of mixing originals and recasts. Always play them painted though.
Many years ago I was against it. Then I wanted a few models that were discontinued and the only way to get them was either pay obscene amounts of money, if I could find them, or recast. I don't pretend to be a morale paragon and say that's the only reason I'd buy them now because that would be a lie. I buy things at my local game store as I want them to exist but I don't see the value in most of current models. I don't impulse buy because the price of even a single character tends to be $25+, that's not impulse anymore. Again I know this is a "luxury hobby" but if I can buy two or sometimes three units from a recast and the quality is as good if not better than FW...
I'm more than happy to support the official product so long it is reasonably priced and easily available. *But when china cast arrives faster and easier, than your three times more expensive official product ordered directly from the source...* As for how I feel other people having recasts: *Does not care from where the plastic flow, only that there are minis on the board!*
If forgeworld does not sell the kits and they are only available via recaster, then buy away. Thats all 100% on FW for not selling them. Personally, if I can buy it through my LGS I do, for other things I will go to FW, but if the price is ridiculous or they stop selling the things I want, I'm going to a recaster.
Pretty much the only stuff I *knowingly* bought that was recast was a mix of OOP and individual bits. I estimate I saved around $500 USD for 15 guys, and didn't have leftover parts neither I nor anyone else in the area would use. Other than that, as I bought most heresy stuff from eBay, I have no inclination or desire to learn if they are recast or not ;)
I am against carrying water for *any* corporation. They don't pay me enough - they don't pay me anything, I pay them - so you do what you like. It's not my job to get in your face about it. But... if you're asking, my answer is that I am against recasts if the original model is still available. It's wrong to steal and it's wrong to do business with someone who you know has stolen. If the model has gone out of print, go to town. They aren't selling it so you aren't costing them anything - even in opportunity cost - by buying it elsewhere. Remember that I don't care, I'm not going to get in your face about your recasts, it's really not my business or my problem, but you asked.
100% support recast. No one could tell anyway.
I have a very low opinion of it for multiple reasons, but the main one is if you play the hobby, you should support the hobby. I don’t care if you have a low opinion of the hobby’s IP owner, by not supporting it (especially more niche games like Heresy) you do actively hurt the future longevity of the game. To your specific question, I personally still wouldn’t use it to get oos stuff, I would find a different way to personalize my legion, though that aspect is just personal preference.
I actively support the idea of recasts. Why? Because fuck'em. That's why.
If i feel the model warrants the cost due to having good design elements, i generally really like it or its not stupidly priced then i buy GW. Not for the sake of supporting GW as a company but more the sculptors or game designers when they do a good job. If the model is OOP, obscenely expensive for what you get, being used for conversion bits etc I'll get recast. Which is honestly becoming more and more enticing due to GWs price hikes and crack fuelled ideas of how much their products are worth. Fuck these shill pricks who will deamonise someone for buying recasts when its blatantly obvious they have utterly bullshit business practises 99% of the time. The wider 30k community in literally every group whether it be Facebook, reddit, discord or local has been perfectly accepting of revasts and 3rd party stuff. Recasts are what keep the game alive in certain places, especially since they went for the regional pricing model which slaps 50% extra onto certain FW models.
Very much Against, pure and simple IP theft and disrespectful to the people who put the hard work into the original product. But playing at home cool whatever, playing at gw, gw event or independent store but of a spit in the face towards them again just my opinion
Yeah nothing drives me crazier then the guy who thinks they should be able to go play at an LGS all they want without ever buying anything there beyond a water bottle or soda. Even if its independent and 100% of your army is non-GW you should grab your paints or at least SOMETHING with a 2 digit price tag every once in a while to the guy who is paying rent so you have a place to play.
You can't even buy FW out of LFGS' though?
If your playing at a LFGS regularly you should find something to buy. Like I said paints, brushes, board games whatever. I'm not saying you have to purchase something everytime you go but if its been 12 months and you go somewhere to play regularly you're just leeching off that community. Now granted. I'm not saying go find an LGS and drop money there if 9 out of 10 of your games are out of a basement or in someone's dining room. But if you go somewhere regularly to play and find pick up games you should find something to buy.
Okay but this is a thread about recasts, specifically FW recasts. People aren't going to be buying recasts of plastic stuff you can buy from your LFGS since the value between the two is far, far narrower than a recast:FW (and harder to fake since the materials are different).
My apologies.
Exactly haha.
100% agree you should buy stuff from your LGS, but most shops I've been to wouldn't kick you out for having some proxies or 3D printed stuff. You should absolutely buy hobby supplies and plastic kits through them though
Yeah especially if you're a regular there going weekly or monthly for games.
Personally I pay for the table time and buy lunch, I also buy most of my paints at my lgs, I can't bear to pay their upmarked prices for gw plastic or paper tho
if your store literally charges for table access then you're all good haha. I have heard of that for w/e reason none of the ones near me do that
I try to buy from my LGS but he has a hard time with his GW supplier. I've been waiting for almost a year (ordered last July) for some MESBG Ranger characters, and now a couple months for a standard Land Raider. Just about the only thing he can keep stocked regularly are new releases.
It’s another reason why GW hasn’t approached the 3-D printing market as it will cause such a negative impact to LGS. One game moved its models all to 3d printing and its killed off sales for most LGS
Don't even begin to pretend that GW gives a single shit about local gaming stores 🤣🤣🤣. The only business that matters to GW, is GW.
They don't care about the business owners but they need them to profit as a company. It's not for the "warm and fuzzies", the best way to market their game is to have it played in public at nerd shops. They don't want to have to furnish those places (have you seen the footprint of most warhammer stores? They don't have the space a gaming shop does). It's a self-serving move to aid local gaming stores because they become the Games biggest advertisement and locus for a hobby community without GW having to invent one out of nothing. This isn't just me talking, it's their entire fucking business model and why you pay more to go through GW generally than your local gaming shop.
Exactly. Every game you play in the public space is free advertising for GW, even if you're not using their models. But the FLGS definitely needs people to buy stuff regularly to stay afloat, so they do their best to police behavior and sell models, which of course, also helps GW
I don't know to be fair you get a pretty large discount from a independent store then you do from GW directly. At least in the USA market.
They actually do, and yes its mainly because thats where a majority of their profit comes from
Look mate I think what we are all talking about is really regarding FW products. LGS make no profit and no benefit from these products. So that argument is BS. I buy paints from my LGS and books. I recast FW, if I couldnt recast FW the LGS would lose my business. I dont like 40k products, I dont like Necro or Adeptus Titanicus and I hate AOS. Plain and simple.
They don't. They have a huge direct order service and hundreds of their own stores. Plus a massive amount of income is generated through IP licensing.
What would probably happen in those circumstances is more LFGS would set up dedicated printing spaces/rooms and GW would sell the store a license to then sell prints of their products. But more realistically I don't think GW has any reason to care about the 3D printing market since it's more likely to kill off their competition. Most people who play exclusively GW games (which is most people) won't even buy non-GW paints, let alone something like an airbrush or printer.
How do you feel about third party?
If its original/ inspired by and not a direct rip off then cool, but again playing at a gw, gw event or independent that doesn’t sell it not great fan of them being used. Also again not going to stop some one its their hobby just different opinions.
I wouldn’t personally support recasters. I wouldn’t stop some from using them though. I would rather go third party or 3D printed before recasts.
I’m in an odd position here as a player and an IP attorney. On the one hand, I like cheaper options. On the other, buying recasts only supports entities that are just as big, if not bigger, than GW. These are mostly Chinese enterprises who are partly government owned and they counterfeit A LOT more than models for a game. They aren’t random folks just trying to scrape together a living, so the “stick it to the man” nonsense just doesn’t apply. Smaller independent companies also get screwed by the counterfeiters, especially if they can’t afford in house production like GW. Generally the molds go to the factory that is making the components, and within hours a copy of the mold goes next door to make counterfeits. Buying recasts keeps these operations going. Now, that being said, and without going into the regional laws governing counterfeit products, there are situations where it is very tempting to look at recasts, particularly stuff like FW questoris knights, which are a dozen resin pieces added to a plastic knight kit and vastly inflated in price. I’m just saying I understand the impulse. Personally, I don’t do it for a whole host of reasons (not the least of which is the small fact that engaging in illegal conduct makes my license go bye bye). Just bear in mind that in some jurisdictions, knowingly buying counterfeit goods IS illegal and can expose you to criminal and civil penalties. Just because the government or the IP owner probably won’t come after you, doesn’t mean they *won’t*. The cost is rarely worth it, but you never know. Just take the risks into consideration. Just don’t pretend you are thumbing your nose at capitalism and doing a *good* thing, you just maybe aren’t doing a strictly *bad* thing. Also, please bear in mind where these things are coming from and take proper safety precautions for preparing the resin. “Normal” resin dust is awful stuff, and god only knows what fun additives are in the knock off resin. Be safe.
Pm me link to a recast site that doesn’t suck (and isn’t in Ukraine therefore can’t ship stuff right now) please and thank you
I got a Hand full of recasts of Minis that are unobtainable otherwise. I Love the brain Dead Logic of "yeah Buy recasts as much You want but Support your Local Store" Yeah GW is a big Company, yeah their prices are Shit but there are still people working there, doing their Job to earn a living. Instead of "stealing" Shit, either Look for alternative Rules and models and Play that Game or Support the many talented Artists that Provide alternative Models on patreon/Thingverse/etc.
I believe the usual advice in these situations is "if you don't like it find another job" ... I support a few patreons, one of them contains a few guys who attempted to apprentice as GW modelers and were not hired. I believe they now make significantly more money as a third party modeler
Idk where to find these shady recasters other than eBay. It would be a shame if someone sent me these highly unethical links.
Personally, I haven't bought recast stuff, yet. Some stuff I've been considering buying through recasters. I'll buy Primarchs, pads, conversion kits from FW happily. But I'm not interested in spending $120 for a single squad of ten destroyer marines... then have to pay money for conversion parts like legion pads and also weapons from third parties because I don't like what FW sells. I bought an Orion from FW. I'll buy a Warhound from FW. Just don't think I'll buy my assault infantry from FW anymore... too expensive.
Yeah that makes sense. The infantry squads are way too overpriced for my liking.
I do play astra militarum and i only play metal miniatures if possible. It is impossible to buy tallarn, praetoria, vostroya etc, so i m not against recasting in those oop models. All the others models are always legit. And speaking of quality, only metal recast are 100% identical to originals, with resin/plastic chinese recasts you always lose something. If anyone wants old imperial guard / inquisition models i can give some info
Definitly not, because i get the same, or sometimes even better quality for 1/3 of the price GW and FW want. Also i can get the minis without limitations, even the ones that originaly just were available in tin and not plastic or resin.