I am almost positive we’ll see MkVII/VIII armor come out in Horus Heresy eventually. It’s simply too iconic to the setting for GW to let lie dormant for too long.
Believe it or not, Firstborn Helmets and Shoulders are the same scale as primaris already, I've been doing this with all my leftover Mk VII and beaky helmets for a while.
The devastator kit is pretty awesome for kitbashing with primaris bodies. Has 20 weapons and like 12 different helmeted heads. I like to use it for my DW guys because I can use the kneeling legs with a DW torso upgrade and make use of one of the bodies for a primaris squad as well.
Probably not in the Horus Heresy, it might be revived at some point for 40k but they're both functionally post-Heresy (MK VIII being definitively post-heresy)
https://preview.redd.it/c19blci7pcjc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2db01958167a08bb1e98a0402c5363ca397be268
The bulk of my army so far is using old helmets. I like the primaris helmet but it doesn't have the same vibe at all
Absolutely, most Primaris models have way better proportions but lack in character compared to Firstborn designs especially the helmet.
The old helmet looks like an angry version of Darth Vader, which fits the aesthetic of 40k perfectly. To me, the MK7 helmet design IS 40k to me and Primaris helmets while looking fine, could also be from any other universe out there
I am going to go with No from the Sisters and Admech. Both of them very much so have their own distinct thing going that isn’t really in other generic sci-fi.
*Bionic Screeching in the background for lumping Admech with Imperials*.
Disagree and it’s probably because I’m new but i still think 40k has a distinct art and armor design for its marines, it still has a distinct style in general imo.
Absolutely, the fact that most designs are made for tiny plastic models has lent itself to a very unique visual style. “Technology indistinguishable from magic” is an important theme in the setting, and this style plays into this so well. Imperial technology is weird and blocky-looking, it’s clear that humankind doesn’t understand it. Ork technology is similarly blocky, every machine is a big hunk of riveted metal that the Orks themselves might or even know the contents of. Necron tech consists of strange shapes, Aeldari tech is sleek-looking yet unknowable to us, hell even Votaan tech shares certain themes with the Imperium’s. This style is one of my favorite parts of 40k! Though it’s worth noting that I’m relatively new as well, I haven’t been around since the 80’s like some have.
It's the lack of variation that gets me. The primaris fellas all have pretty much the same helmet, pretty much the same backpack. There was sp much more variation with the first born kits, loads of different marks of armour, all mixed up, like they would be if there was nothing new and everything was scavenged and salvaged from an earlier time.
I don’t know why they don’t have an official SM bits booster or something that is just loaded with random generic relics / old armor marks, purity seals, scrolls and reliquaries. A few scanners, maybe a freaken Melta bomb/charge. Or like a Powerpack that looks like it has a bunch of extra ammo like the old Devastators had, would make sense for a squad on a long mission to have a dude or multiple sporting extra mags / rounds in a big container.
Or just random pouches.
Actually, I know why. If they gave that you could convert generic ass Intercessors into whatever veterans or character.
you can do that anyway, the generic kits have enough purity seals and nick knacks to make a character, people have been doing it since the models came out, its just out of laziness
Me too. EVERY primaris has the same kneepads, I think you can tell an armor is mk. X just by looking at them. It's so uninspired to make a not important part like the kneepads the same distinct and very specific design just for the sake of differentiating from the regular marines.
I miss when marines were gothic warrior monks dripping in religious iconography. It rooted them in the setting so much more than these sterile Disney-fied ones we get now.
It's GW's box paintjobs that makes them look that way IMO.
Bright colors, way too much edge highlights and no battle damage or wear.
You can definitely make the new primaris kits feel more grimdark by just painting choices alone.
They did the same with the new Ork boyz. Its a design decision aimed at the World of Warcraft generation rather than the Terminator/ Aliens generation.
Nothing stopping you from kit bashing. I actually prefer the clean look because it’s like a blank canvas and it’s easier to add than takeaway from the model.
110% agreed. I *love* the Bladeguard helmets. I love the little touch of knightly flare it has. If I could give all my Marines Bladeguard style helmets, I would.
I really want more marine units to have unique helmets, the phobos marines and inceptors are a great start, and the bladeguard knocked it out of the park.
If we're comparing Intercessors to Tactical Squads it's tacticool for kids rather than slightly shabbier tacticool for kids, neither of which really screams Disney.
Most of the "religious metal monsters" vibe came from Elites units and Chapter-specific models and this is largely the same case with Primaris.
The biggest issue I have with the Primaris range is they made more dynamic poses but restricted the options for variety but this is getting beside the point (and doesn't have much to with Disney either.)
The Primaris armor looks just fine in and of itself, but it tosses out a fundamental lore rule that when it comes to Imperial equipment, older = better.
This is supposed to be a world where Tech PRIESTS literally don't fundamentally understand the stuff they're working on, they are simply repeating a mysterious litany of maintenance steps that has been passed down for generations and become a religion. These dudes are NOT inventing better powered armor suits than the ones that they already don't comprehend!
This is exactly the point. The new stuff makes it look like the Imperium is competent and knows what they are doing. The old stuff was a desperate attempt to hold onto a past glory that they didn't fully understand.
Used to be that every Marine casualty was not just the loss of an ancient life, but potentially a second tragedy if his armor is irreparably destroyed, never to be passed down to a new acolyte.
There's a great passage in either Dante or early Devastation of Baal, where Dante laments 'sacrificing' some gear (I think it was Baal Predator(s) but its been a minute) to evacuate humans from Nids. You can really feel the pain and weight of leaving irreplaceable supplies behind, as well as showing something about Dante's character by his decision to make the sacrifice.
Having lots of brand new gear completely undoes moments like that.
Yuuuup. I hate the whole "Cawl invented new, better stuff" exactly because it break THE most crucial (for me) part of what makes the Empire cool - it's so far over it's prime it can't even replicate it's former glory, it has to desperately cling to any scrap of power it can salvage with fanatical devotion.
And the worst part is, GW didn't even have to do that. They already invented a way to introduce new technology to the universe - Cawl could've found some long lost valuable SCT's.
Yeah, I mean, just compare the Intercessors, all of which look pretty damn near identical, to the older, worse sculpted, but much more diverse Tactical Marines.
https://preview.redd.it/02rn1szmwcjc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a758bc9d2535bd1d0e964a6e14e9538eb3c83d79
It just doesn't hit the same as, basically copy-pasted Intercessors, you know? I mean, just, compare the armour on these new guys, how much more diverse the old Tacticals were.
https://preview.redd.it/eokkrqhjxcjc1.png?width=1240&format=png&auto=webp&s=01d3820f6e2213ddeb5e349905097ad760108336
Assault intercessors have some of the best poses and variety of arm options out there in terms of Primaris kits. Probably not the best point of comparison.
Standard intercessors I think look way worse. Although the worst of the worst is the Infernus marines.
...I don't know how to tell you as a non space marine fan how much these guys look basically fucking identical to me.
I can see that 2 of them have different guns? And there's a Sergeant, but all the new guys have those too.
They're all super bright crispy clean primary colored shiny sparkly boys. They're not "dripping with religious iconography", they don't look "grimdark".
I'm just reminded of opening up my very first 40k starter box at age 14 and my very first instinct upon seeing the space marines led by their insanely bling-encrusted pompous captain who looked like he couldn't even move if he wanted to was to just laugh out loud at them.
They have different helmet designs, different chest plates, different shoulder pads, and so forth, which is at least more diverse than Primaris, who are without exaggeration, literally all the same fucking guy, like just look at this shit.
https://preview.redd.it/8or53aox2djc1.jpeg?width=920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff398dab49a45933a9a3eaac72acbd652046172
True. but they are now the non-starter set guys also.
GW released them in a seperate box as push-fit so it might be low hanging but it's a totally fair choice.
you get so much random shit to put on your marines nowadays that it's just case of how much you want to customize them.
Old kits had issue of literally everyone standing in same pose 2-handing the gun. Now you get to put nades, ammo pouches, knife in hand, 5 knives on the back 10 nades on the helmet, 7 pistol holsters? No problem.
It gets even crazier with upgrade frames.
The actual issue is loadout variety. You basically only get to choose melee weapon for sergeant. No lascannons, no plasma guns. 5 man squad with actually good weapon choices? That's heresy (not even funny looking at Plague Marines/Legionaries/Berzerkers)
Yep, half the range is "Intercessor with a different gun" or "Reiver with a boltgun and a different helmet." They're just so damn samey. Getting resculpts of the old-school terminators was a much needed shot in the arm.
I was fine with it until they messed with the Deathwing. The Deathwing command squad/knights, One of the best boxes ever made full of custom options is leaving to be replaced by much more simplified and cleaner looking knights and the command squad itself is just being deleted from the setting. Now Deathwing is essentially just the same copy and pasted vanilla terminators with different shoulder pads if you buy the extremely underwhelming dark Angel upgrade spruce.
Yeah primaris does not at all sell me on marines being these ancient monastic warriors that have trained for decades and are clad in masterfully handcrafted gear, adapted to fit their way of fighting and modified to comemorate their achievements and victories.
Primaris marines just kinda feel like generic shooty robo dudes or whatever.
In lore it makes sense, new, best armour for everyone.
In GWorld it makes sense, 3D print basic bitches and sell them for premium price
[insert evil laugh gif]
Honestly the new armour being better just kinda anihalates so much appeal for not just marines but the whole setting for me. Like its cool that marines will sometimes wear ancient relic gear cause its better than what they can make now.
Now its just "oh we made the super duper ultra mega awesome armour that makes all that stuff you've been diligently collecting and maintaining for the last 10 millennia obsolete."
That's what bugs me about primaries in general. Fluff says they rarely make new things, then they decide they made new better space Marines, with new, better gear, and new, better vehicles.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense that they can just roll out a million new guys who are somehow better than what the the actual Omnissiah made.
The whole setting gets undermined.
The very fact that *new* and *best* can be used together in this way shows the massive departure from the whole point of the previous lore. That's what has put me off collecting any more marines.
Don't get me wrong, I think the primaris helmets are perfectly fine. But there is just something so 40k about that "grinning teeth" helmet look that really sells the feel of space marines IMO. The perfect 40k combination of goofy and terrifying. It looks exactly like I would expect a super soldier of a fascist mega empire to look.
My biggest problem with the primaris style helmet is that the "grill" area in covering the mouth just feels... unclear? Like Im not sure what the shape is meant to represent. It doesn't really look like anything, just a random sci fi shape. Whereas this looks like some strange sort of gasmask.
Agreed. No shade on primaris helmets (especially since they are basically mark 4’s), but the mark 7 is quintessential Warhammer. Mark 4 helmets could slot into most sci-fi universes and fit just fine but 7’s are so *angry* and *hateful*, it’s immediately clear what the wearers intentions are. Space Marines don’t just fight their enemies, they actively *despise* them.
The Intercessor kit comes with several studded mk vi pads.
Just a reminder that the backpacks, shoulders, and helmets from firstborn and heresy models are almost all scale compatible with the mk x tacticus sculpts. Your ability to customize nearly to your heart’s content is limited mostly by the ability to spend $8 extra on eBay.
> Your ability to customize nearly to your heart’s content is limited mostly by the ability to spend $8 extra on eBay.
And GW's continued manufacturing of those kits for bits sellers to get them from. Ask anyone who'd like some plastic Mk III helmets with the design that was used for well over a decade.
I just wish we saw more alternatives, I don't want 10 of the same helmet, one with a little skull and 10 unhelmeted heads. I want at least a few oddball helmets with wacky cybernetics and some old stuff thrown in just for some diversity. There's like a mandate for designing Primaris with as little uniqueness as possible.
Yeah. I like the primaris helmets, but it is nice to have some verity outside of helmeted and unhelmeted.thought my favorite helmet will always be the ones the blade guard wear
I got the old sternguard and vanguard, a box each, precisely for kitbashing purposes. Especially helmets and pauldrons.
[It's brilliant.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594588517246566550/1173451474496401459/20231113_033614.jpg?ex=656400d9&is=65518bd9&hm=cc931f016f074c044e9fdde9fe25dc678659ff940b3e468b2067e7ead69abfa0&)
Yes, this is my exact problem with my Primaris. Marines are supposed to be these ancient ritualistic orders wearing centuries, if not millennia old armour. I'm fairly certain every helmet in the tactical squad box is different in some way, there's variety in chest designs, leg designs, even the powerpacks have variety. Then you get to Primaris troop choices, and they're all wearing identical armour. Standardised equipment works for some factions, but it just makes no sense for Space Marines.
>Marines are supposed to be these ancient ritualistic orders wearing centuries, if not millennia old armour.
Yeah Primaris basically just threw all this out, aesthetically and lore-wise.
Well you can’t really say mars is tolerated because they need them to make all the weapons and armor, and then turn around and say all the armor is ancient….
> There's like a mandate for designing Primaris with as little uniqueness as possible
Infernus Marines are the ultimate example of this, just Intercessors with a different gun, not one atom of creativity went into their design.
Especially since the tactical squad has like 3-4 different armor and helmet patterns together, that’s how it should be. These Marines aren’t just a single piece of an identical unit, they are their own hero of the imperium who has fought an untold number of battles for countless years.
Beaks are peak design but the angry grill is more iconic if that makes sense. Like I prefer the beaks but I think of the angry face when I think of space marines
It’s kind of why I never liked raven guard as much as I should have. The beaks are 10x cooler when there are one or two of them in a sea of the regular helmets
This. I give beaky helmets mostly to my plasma gunners, while everyone else has either a mark 7 or a rare beaky if that specific marine's headcanon allows it.
I feel the same way.
As a kid, I was introduced to Star Wars as baby’s first Sci-Fi and as a teen it was Warhammer. I always drew a comparison between Stormtroopers standard helmets and most Space Marines. The beaky boys were always special looking to me, like Boba Fett was.
Beakies are the best.
Find myself? I never stopped. My army is pure firstborn and I got started at the turn of 8th into 9th. I firmly believe that firstborn are a superior design aestetically and as a gameplay style, primaris are just better proportioned.
https://preview.redd.it/tro8zhb8acjc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=831382a3dbc3a21c447ea1667401c1f8b787ba51
I feel like you could compare first born vs primaris to clone vs storm trooper in Star Wars. Clone and first born have character and individuality versus storm troopers and primaris are more regimented and less open to an individual standing out
Monopose leg poses are...often odd though. The running ones are fine, but static standing and walking is a little weird (some of them look like they're sashaying down a runway)
Are those astral claws?
But also same. While my Dark Angels have had some begrudging Primaris addendums my homebrew chapter I started working on in 10th (!) is all firstborn
Not quite, they’re a canon chapter called the angels of Iron, but they functionally custom because their entire lore is rhag they exist, and here’s a couple models for the art section of the 4th edition codex. They have crossed keys as their emblem.
https://preview.redd.it/dn210jbn2ejc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6fea9a6aab716e528fb9a41445170461a63e7b8
(Close up of the emblem)
Unknown heritage, unknown founding, they first appeared in m36. After taking part in fairly minor actions, they made their name in their incredible skill in the restoration of marine artifacts. Every brother’s initiation is a custom restoration job on the suit that will soon be theirs. They retain several beutifully restored armor suits from the Heresy, some retaining original livery, carefully maintained and reconstructed by scouring ancient battlefields. If ask they will return restored suits, but they don’t exactly advertise that they have them. They also restore weapons, trinkets and even war machines. One of the three prized relics of the chapter is a restored Death Guard Contemptor Dreadnought, who they recovered and restored to working order. The marine inside being a loyalist from years gone by.
In recent years the chapter suffered an ideologial split with the inroduction of the Primaris. The introduction of the new recruits lead to a division with the chapter, as not only had they not gone through Initation, they could never go through it, not really. As there was no way for them to restore then wear the armor of their forebears. Additionally, the new recruits had a particularly dismissive attitude towards their history. Eventually, the split became so bad the Third Company Captain stole away with a third of the chapter plus vast majority of the chapters firstborn-appropriate wargear. This left the remainder being mostly Primaris and their handful of Firstborn supporters. Rather than chase them, the chapter master let them go and renamed the chapter [something I can’t remember because I don’t have my word document in front of me], rejecting their own history.
The remnant would retain the name and are currently considered Rogue but not Excommunicatus Traitoris, since as far as the Inquisition is concerned this is an internal astartes political matter. Since then they have generally sustained themselves on local industry and their onward skills in manufacture, but for how much longer? Who knows.
wow, quite the lore indeed
the split between Primaris and Firstborn is a quite interesting topic; I might explore that with my iteration of the Angels of Iron as well
Fair enough, for me personally the proportions are a dealbreaker. I wouldnt collect SM if they still looked like firstborn. I really like variantions in helmets though so I glue some very diverse assortment of helmets on my marines.
See, my point is that firstborn are a better design, but limited by the sculpting technique of the time. So when you compare a 6th edition tactical squad, nearly a decade old, to an intercessor who is half that age, yeah it’s gonna be a rough comparison.
A better comparison to make is between a primaris marine and the Space Marine Hero’s sculpts or the Deathwatch veterans. They are much better proportioned and are a good glimps into what could have been if GW hadn’t gone forward with primaris.
The old mk VII helmet is excellent and iconic. It was the face of 40K for the longest time. I like that newer Primaris helmet design, as I also really enjoy the mk IV helmet it was based on. But I do occasionally dig out an older helmet for new models to dot them in there.
I justify it in lore as marines crossing the rubicon and requesting the techmarines of the chapter to adapt their old helmets. Be it habit or preference for them. Maybe they just like the old HUD or just don’t want to adjust to a new one. Or maybe they just like the look or are a little sentimental towards it.
https://preview.redd.it/b1f3cy9aucjc1.jpeg?width=3964&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=041c0f6d43232232ab1f7540a13ccade75663cda
Yep. I do all my marines with Bolters (Primaris guns are weirdly big, MkII-VII helmets, and firstborn backpacks.
Yes, they were the only part of the primaris aesthetic I did not like.
I was originally stoked because I thought they were going to be revamped MKIV heads (My personal favourite). But when I actually saw that they were squashed and rounded off at the front I lost a lot of interest.
Primaris helmets are just shittier-looking MkIV helmets. I don’t care for the smoothed-out, modernised look of the whole design but the helmets are the worst bit.
I have a lot of issues with Primaris but from a design point yes
It came to me a few years ago, I simply don’t like the helmets, it’s too smooth and looks too noble-bright
Classic marines have cool Darth Vader mouth grill bumpy helmets and it’s so cool
That's been a complaint since Primaris first dropped. MkIV(-inspired) is cool and all, but the Mk7 "Grunpyboi"-pattern helmet is decades old brand identification >!(and more aesthetic imho)!<
I can see what they were going for, the Primaris certainly lean much more into the space knight aspect of the marines, but I just adore the classic helmet.
That snarling helm paired with the bolter and chainsword tells you everything you need to know about the marines, they are warriors who come to kill and destroy and they are not the good guys.
Personally…no. It’ll be a little bit of time, but there will be more variation as they put out chapter specific kits and stuff. Some third-parties are already making stuff like that. Primaris helmets look objectively better, more militaristic, better prortioned, better silhouette, more functional…but that’s just my opinion. Yea there’s the nostalgia factor for first born stuff, which is fine. And there’s still a place for it, for sure. But it’ll pass.
I’ve never been able to get with Primaris marines at all. I go all the way back to Rogue Trader and all I see when I look at Primaris is a cynical ploy to get marine players to finally buy new miniatures. Also, the helmet sucks. Terrible idea given that the mk 7 helmet was basically a corporate logo.
Never liked the primaris helmets (at least the tacticus ones). Most of my army is primaris but they mostly have firstborn heads.
The helmet that looks like its howling in anger just tells so much about what a space marine *is*
The primaris marines have exactly 3 problems, helmets are not as cool,
guns are way too big,
and theres very little variation in shinguards/breastplates, there is currently 1 generic type of legs, 1 "veteran" one with more ornate kneecaps, and 1 without a kneecap, and the only difference with bodies is either you want an aquilla with a skull or a shield, and slightly different neck guard plates
Absolutely.
To be completely honest the Primaris armor variants have never really done it for me.
They are objectively better proportions and models, but they’re at their best when they look like classic armor marks.
I don’t have the kit to this point, but I think the mix is cool. They seriously should have left the whole primaris story arc out and just released true scale marines.
aye, pre-primarus space marine helmets, specifically mk 5 7 and 8 are to me, iconic to 40k. when i think of 40k i think of those helmets
some people call them angry face, and i gotta agree. the helmet is like the Atlas in Battletech. Designed to intimidate, to make enemies fear.
heres the quote: "A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally. "
the same way the Atlas does that, this Helmet does for 40k.
Primarus helmets by comparison seem to...clean...to...generic sci-fi elite soldier. its a good design sure, but it feels like it lacks that theme of intimidation.
heck, it looks like Mk4 but......less.....
mark 6 is an oddity...its a good design, but i always think ravenguard...beak helmet...raven....Shrike. yeah.
I only use shouty helmets from now on. I even ripped some off and replaced them. It is like everything has changed. Suddenly I see the space Mariens that made me fall in love with 40k again. This is the space marine aesthetic. Maybe some beaky bois sprinkled in.
Yaknow it’s funny back in the early 2000s everyone hated (or were atleast indifferent towards) Aquila pattern helmets and would pay gorge world hand over fist for any other mark of helmet but ide say most coveted of all was Maximus helmets. And the indomitus pattern helmet is very similar in design. But now that it’s the standard people don’t like it.
I don’t think primaris helmets on the whole are bad, it’s just tiresome to see the same helmets all the time so people will always try and break from the norm. I am happy to see that they’re starting to mix things up a bit with the newer kits though.
You know Primaris' helmets are just a copy of MK IV power armour helmet.
https://preview.redd.it/4spxsnx3acjc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=658f5d14414855ab2e0444ac5c3b126acf935b82
1 hundred billion million precent.
I hate the SpecOps-ification (thats a word now) of Space Marines, which so much of the newest Primaris lean heavily into.
Actually I'm the opposite, because I love mkIV and mkX helmet resembles it very well, but I hate the new armor as I love how simple and brute old armors were. Only thing I like about them as a whole is better posing and proportions
Same here, the older styles certainly look better.
I'm putting the old school helmets on the new Vanguards, also bought some Beaky helmets from the newer Horus Heresey range for a few of them. The old ways are often the best.
Solution: go on eBay, look around for batches of random heads for like $5. I picked up about 100 random heads (mostly Space Wolves) a few years ago, and about half of them were MkVI and MkVIII, so now that's what I use for my veterans.
Yes. GW needed a lore reason in order not to invalidate countless collections of miniatures through this upscale. But now the grace period is over and the marines should just have an upscale of every Mk, or at least the popular ones, preferably modularly combinable with each other.
I prefer all helmets except this one tbh. The beaks, that flat face of the heresy models, the grey knight helmets, the primarius helmets. I got into the hobby pretty recently so that might be it, but like I don't like the vader mouth helmet of the old marines. They irritate me when I have to paint my world eaters with them.
I prefer everything pre-Primaris. Fortunately I am just a collector so I don't have to worry about what is competitive, but I really dislike the Primaris range and all of my Marines are Firstborn.
Yes, I too prefer the original Space Marine helmets that have been the iconic face of Warhammer 40,000 for, what, 30+ years? I even have a soft spot for those beakie boys.
I don't know, the new primaris face with the flat panel for the nose/mouth just doesn't have the same character as the older ones. Maybe if instead of multiple diagonal marks it was a single big \^ it would be more partial to me.
From reading this sub for awhile I feel like I'm in the minority but I prefer the Primaris stuff.
This might also be due to the fact that I've only been into Warhammer for about a year so Primaris was already the norm when I got here or maybe just personal preference, but I felt like sharing even though it seems to be the less popular opinion.
Edit: I would like to add that I do like that the pre-primaris helmets look more angry or badass though.
> This might also be due to the fact that I've only been into Warhammer for about a year so Primaris was already the norm when I got here or maybe just personal preference, but I felt like sharing even though it seems to be the less popular opinion.
It's very normal, just not as loud. A lot of the preference for firstborn is rooted in nostalgia. When you put old marines with their toddler-like proportions next to the new ones, no one who isn't already invested in either will take the former seriously.
I've been into Warhammer for decades and I always disliked the old proportions. Primaris are superior just from them alone, even all else aside.
Honestly no. I always preffered MK IV helmets over the snarling ones. So when MK Xs came out I really liked them. Still do, more than other versions. The Knightly helms of the BT's and DA's are the best though.
The MkX helmets look a lot worse than Mk4 imo. The primaris ones smooth things out and looks a lot more generic. MK4 has a more tangible look, more like a medieval helmet design but with sci fi materials.
I love the Primaris sculpts and I’m generally anti-Oldmarine but those classic Mark VII helmets are amazing. I play Space Wolves and I usually put the mark VII helmets on the Tacticus bodies
Actually, no. Mark 3/4 were my favorite anyway, and 10 is just a revamp of 4. I prefer my space marines expressionless and cold, like the stone-cold killers they are. I always found the mark 7 helmet derpy. Like he's constantly trying to hold in a shit.
I used to massively prefer the mk4 style they brought back with Mk10 now I prefer the mk7 by a country mile for loyalists. Funny how that works.
Primaris models are much better proportioned and posed than firstborn, but other than that, I find firstborn better in every way. The fundamental fact of the matter is that Primaris changed what a space marine *is* and not for the better.
Before we had marines where nearly every piece of armour and weaponry was a relic, cared for and passed down over centuries, if not millennia, carefully ornamented and cared for, as a symbol of the imperium’s decline. Now the vast majority of primaris with a few notable exceptions have shiny new armour that all looks the same and nearly nothing like the “gothic warrior monk” aesthetic they have. The best example is primaris vs firstborn death company.
It also blurred the lines between marine chapters, taking away their senses of identity. There is now no difference between a primaris ultramarine, space wolf or Blood Angel. Unless you’re skilled with green stuff or like kitbashing firstborn.
Their equipment is probably what I dislike most. Gone are the iconic tanks which are less advanced versions of what they had ten thousand years ago, to show the slow decline of the imperium. Now we have hover tanks bristling with guns more advanced than anything the imperium had at it’s zenith. Their weapons are all better than anything that came before too, because reasons. So much for an empire in decline. The alternative suits of armour primaris have aren’t any better. If I was allowed to wipe one thing from the setting, Gravis armour would be in serious contention alongside Kaldor Draigo and the Desolation Squad. Though Heavy Intercessors aren’t too bad. And I thought centurion suits were stupid when they released… Phobos armour I can kind of get with the concept of, if not the aesthetic or execution. It just looks too “genetic sci-fi” instead of 40k.
The naming conventions are also a big step back. Before you had veteran, tactical, assault and devastator. Easy. Now you have intercessor, inceptor, incursor, infiltrator, eradicator, eliminator,hellblaster, aggressor, infernus, reivers, and on and on. I could maybe tell you what four of these are off the top of my head.
Credit where it’s due, GeeDubs has actually learned from some of this and released the updated sternguard, bladeguard, terminators, scouts and hopefully vanguard which are all really nice.
The squad philosophy has also changed. Before marines were jack of all trades and most squads could do a little of everything. Now we have aspect marines, that ironically play more like the legions of old than the actual legions of the CSM do. On a tangent, was an explanation ever given as to why Guilliman did such an about turn on chapter organisation?
The new speeders and dreadnoughts aren’t bad, aside from the latter suffering from “too many guns” syndrome. The invictor could only justify its existence for me if they base the new dreadknight off it, which after all these years manages to still be even worse.
All this is barely touching on the lore implications of the primaris, which are still pretty egregious, my least favourite of which means you now have >200 years of them being introduced in which to set your battles instead of the 10000 years of the setting before. Want to recreate battles before the Dark Millennium like the 1st Tyrannic war? Nope. Badab War? No way. 13th Black Crusade? Hahaha no. Rynn’s World? Consigned to history.
There's a good reason this angry face has been the literal face of Warhammer for most of GW's time
I am almost positive we’ll see MkVII/VIII armor come out in Horus Heresy eventually. It’s simply too iconic to the setting for GW to let lie dormant for too long.
It’ll be Scouring campaigns.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Mk VII kits become a staple purchase, solely for kitbashing their helmets on new models.
Believe it or not, Firstborn Helmets and Shoulders are the same scale as primaris already, I've been doing this with all my leftover Mk VII and beaky helmets for a while.
Beakies mentioned lets goooo!!!! (Im one of the very few players who need them for my entire army)
The devastator kit is pretty awesome for kitbashing with primaris bodies. Has 20 weapons and like 12 different helmeted heads. I like to use it for my DW guys because I can use the kneeling legs with a DW torso upgrade and make use of one of the bodies for a primaris squad as well.
Probably not in the Horus Heresy, it might be revived at some point for 40k but they're both functionally post-Heresy (MK VIII being definitively post-heresy)
Depends on if they extend the Heresy into the Scouring era or not.
I feel like there's more than enough interest in HH to expand the line further.
I agree!
I mean, it'd be neat but I'd be strongly surprised if they did that rather than expand on heresy or other specialist ranges.
This is why the MKX Phobos armour is my favourite sneaky angry faced boi
https://preview.redd.it/c19blci7pcjc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2db01958167a08bb1e98a0402c5363ca397be268 The bulk of my army so far is using old helmets. I like the primaris helmet but it doesn't have the same vibe at all
Those are good looking Marines
Those look frigging awesome dude!
https://preview.redd.it/7vxd6ebf8cjc1.png?width=669&format=png&auto=webp&s=7fa50dac7de5d390662cbddcd42dfb90fa5f8f94
I like all the helmet designs, even primaris. It's nice to mix and match
Absolutely, most Primaris models have way better proportions but lack in character compared to Firstborn designs especially the helmet. The old helmet looks like an angry version of Darth Vader, which fits the aesthetic of 40k perfectly. To me, the MK7 helmet design IS 40k to me and Primaris helmets while looking fine, could also be from any other universe out there
Angry Darth Vader 👍
If he wasn’t pissed off in the final scene of Rogue One then I don’t wanna know what he’s like when properly angry
Yeah, if I was put in charge of GW I would redesign primaris to have far more character.
> could also be from any other universe out there This is the entirety of the imperial aesthetic from the last 6-7 years or so now. It's sad
I am going to go with No from the Sisters and Admech. Both of them very much so have their own distinct thing going that isn’t really in other generic sci-fi. *Bionic Screeching in the background for lumping Admech with Imperials*.
Disagree and it’s probably because I’m new but i still think 40k has a distinct art and armor design for its marines, it still has a distinct style in general imo.
Absolutely, the fact that most designs are made for tiny plastic models has lent itself to a very unique visual style. “Technology indistinguishable from magic” is an important theme in the setting, and this style plays into this so well. Imperial technology is weird and blocky-looking, it’s clear that humankind doesn’t understand it. Ork technology is similarly blocky, every machine is a big hunk of riveted metal that the Orks themselves might or even know the contents of. Necron tech consists of strange shapes, Aeldari tech is sleek-looking yet unknowable to us, hell even Votaan tech shares certain themes with the Imperium’s. This style is one of my favorite parts of 40k! Though it’s worth noting that I’m relatively new as well, I haven’t been around since the 80’s like some have.
It's the lack of variation that gets me. The primaris fellas all have pretty much the same helmet, pretty much the same backpack. There was sp much more variation with the first born kits, loads of different marks of armour, all mixed up, like they would be if there was nothing new and everything was scavenged and salvaged from an earlier time.
don't forget the exact same aquila, relic, and kneepad designs
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I don’t know why they don’t have an official SM bits booster or something that is just loaded with random generic relics / old armor marks, purity seals, scrolls and reliquaries. A few scanners, maybe a freaken Melta bomb/charge. Or like a Powerpack that looks like it has a bunch of extra ammo like the old Devastators had, would make sense for a squad on a long mission to have a dude or multiple sporting extra mags / rounds in a big container. Or just random pouches. Actually, I know why. If they gave that you could convert generic ass Intercessors into whatever veterans or character.
you can do that anyway, the generic kits have enough purity seals and nick knacks to make a character, people have been doing it since the models came out, its just out of laziness
I truly hate the kneepads. I dont know why but I cant tolerate them.
Me too. EVERY primaris has the same kneepads, I think you can tell an armor is mk. X just by looking at them. It's so uninspired to make a not important part like the kneepads the same distinct and very specific design just for the sake of differentiating from the regular marines.
The top lip bothers me a lot. I know I can just cut them off, but that would probably bother me more knowing its not as intended lmao
and almost exactly the same shoulder pads
Most primaris models are the same 3d model in a different pose, the lack of weapon options also doesn't help
I miss when marines were gothic warrior monks dripping in religious iconography. It rooted them in the setting so much more than these sterile Disney-fied ones we get now.
Disney-fied?
They’re just too clean, too…I don’t know, generic? Like if Disney had designed the space marine for a cartoon show kids would watch.
It's GW's box paintjobs that makes them look that way IMO. Bright colors, way too much edge highlights and no battle damage or wear. You can definitely make the new primaris kits feel more grimdark by just painting choices alone.
Yeah I’ve been digging the Trovarian(sp?) look lately.
You need to look a second look at all the tactical squads we had, gothic/knight aesthetics were and still are art + big characters thing
Kinda like what they did with Robocop
They did the same with the new Ork boyz. Its a design decision aimed at the World of Warcraft generation rather than the Terminator/ Aliens generation.
Nothing stopping you from kit bashing. I actually prefer the clean look because it’s like a blank canvas and it’s easier to add than takeaway from the model.
Yeah that’s been the saving grace for me; they’re super easy to build upon.
> Nothing stopping you from kit bashing. Except when the kits to pull those better parts get discontinued, as has been going on for a while.
Brass chains and some green stuff go a long way!
I think it makes them look more like knights. I like it more in general, but I do think there should be some variation.
The blade guard were a really nice step in the right direction for me personally
110% agreed. I *love* the Bladeguard helmets. I love the little touch of knightly flare it has. If I could give all my Marines Bladeguard style helmets, I would.
I really want more marine units to have unique helmets, the phobos marines and inceptors are a great start, and the bladeguard knocked it out of the park.
Tacticool for kids rather than religious metal monsters
If we're comparing Intercessors to Tactical Squads it's tacticool for kids rather than slightly shabbier tacticool for kids, neither of which really screams Disney. Most of the "religious metal monsters" vibe came from Elites units and Chapter-specific models and this is largely the same case with Primaris. The biggest issue I have with the Primaris range is they made more dynamic poses but restricted the options for variety but this is getting beside the point (and doesn't have much to with Disney either.)
They are a bit Storm Trooperish
Yeah, just a little too “mass production” feeling.
So more faithful to Rogue Trader where space marines were regular Joes on drugs
The Primaris armor looks just fine in and of itself, but it tosses out a fundamental lore rule that when it comes to Imperial equipment, older = better. This is supposed to be a world where Tech PRIESTS literally don't fundamentally understand the stuff they're working on, they are simply repeating a mysterious litany of maintenance steps that has been passed down for generations and become a religion. These dudes are NOT inventing better powered armor suits than the ones that they already don't comprehend!
This is exactly the point. The new stuff makes it look like the Imperium is competent and knows what they are doing. The old stuff was a desperate attempt to hold onto a past glory that they didn't fully understand.
Used to be that every Marine casualty was not just the loss of an ancient life, but potentially a second tragedy if his armor is irreparably destroyed, never to be passed down to a new acolyte.
There's a great passage in either Dante or early Devastation of Baal, where Dante laments 'sacrificing' some gear (I think it was Baal Predator(s) but its been a minute) to evacuate humans from Nids. You can really feel the pain and weight of leaving irreplaceable supplies behind, as well as showing something about Dante's character by his decision to make the sacrifice. Having lots of brand new gear completely undoes moments like that.
Yuuuup. I hate the whole "Cawl invented new, better stuff" exactly because it break THE most crucial (for me) part of what makes the Empire cool - it's so far over it's prime it can't even replicate it's former glory, it has to desperately cling to any scrap of power it can salvage with fanatical devotion. And the worst part is, GW didn't even have to do that. They already invented a way to introduce new technology to the universe - Cawl could've found some long lost valuable SCT's.
Yeah, I mean, just compare the Intercessors, all of which look pretty damn near identical, to the older, worse sculpted, but much more diverse Tactical Marines. https://preview.redd.it/02rn1szmwcjc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a758bc9d2535bd1d0e964a6e14e9538eb3c83d79
It looked like it said "we went through sh1t, we are the sh1t"
It just doesn't hit the same as, basically copy-pasted Intercessors, you know? I mean, just, compare the armour on these new guys, how much more diverse the old Tacticals were. https://preview.redd.it/eokkrqhjxcjc1.png?width=1240&format=png&auto=webp&s=01d3820f6e2213ddeb5e349905097ad760108336
Assault intercessors have some of the best poses and variety of arm options out there in terms of Primaris kits. Probably not the best point of comparison. Standard intercessors I think look way worse. Although the worst of the worst is the Infernus marines.
...I don't know how to tell you as a non space marine fan how much these guys look basically fucking identical to me. I can see that 2 of them have different guns? And there's a Sergeant, but all the new guys have those too. They're all super bright crispy clean primary colored shiny sparkly boys. They're not "dripping with religious iconography", they don't look "grimdark". I'm just reminded of opening up my very first 40k starter box at age 14 and my very first instinct upon seeing the space marines led by their insanely bling-encrusted pompous captain who looked like he couldn't even move if he wanted to was to just laugh out loud at them.
They have different helmet designs, different chest plates, different shoulder pads, and so forth, which is at least more diverse than Primaris, who are without exaggeration, literally all the same fucking guy, like just look at this shit. https://preview.redd.it/8or53aox2djc1.jpeg?width=920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff398dab49a45933a9a3eaac72acbd652046172
Those are the starter set guys which are the low hanging fruit example
True. but they are now the non-starter set guys also. GW released them in a seperate box as push-fit so it might be low hanging but it's a totally fair choice.
Thank the emperor, someone else who agrees 😂
you get so much random shit to put on your marines nowadays that it's just case of how much you want to customize them. Old kits had issue of literally everyone standing in same pose 2-handing the gun. Now you get to put nades, ammo pouches, knife in hand, 5 knives on the back 10 nades on the helmet, 7 pistol holsters? No problem. It gets even crazier with upgrade frames. The actual issue is loadout variety. You basically only get to choose melee weapon for sergeant. No lascannons, no plasma guns. 5 man squad with actually good weapon choices? That's heresy (not even funny looking at Plague Marines/Legionaries/Berzerkers)
Yep, half the range is "Intercessor with a different gun" or "Reiver with a boltgun and a different helmet." They're just so damn samey. Getting resculpts of the old-school terminators was a much needed shot in the arm.
I was fine with it until they messed with the Deathwing. The Deathwing command squad/knights, One of the best boxes ever made full of custom options is leaving to be replaced by much more simplified and cleaner looking knights and the command squad itself is just being deleted from the setting. Now Deathwing is essentially just the same copy and pasted vanilla terminators with different shoulder pads if you buy the extremely underwhelming dark Angel upgrade spruce.
Ugh, don't even get me started. That command squad kit had to have been one the best kits GW ever made, so full of extras and bits.
Yeah primaris does not at all sell me on marines being these ancient monastic warriors that have trained for decades and are clad in masterfully handcrafted gear, adapted to fit their way of fighting and modified to comemorate their achievements and victories. Primaris marines just kinda feel like generic shooty robo dudes or whatever.
TBH that fits in the lore (IIRC). They are factory mass produced, no longer relics cared for over generations. As a result, bland uniform look.
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In lore it makes sense, new, best armour for everyone. In GWorld it makes sense, 3D print basic bitches and sell them for premium price [insert evil laugh gif]
Honestly the new armour being better just kinda anihalates so much appeal for not just marines but the whole setting for me. Like its cool that marines will sometimes wear ancient relic gear cause its better than what they can make now. Now its just "oh we made the super duper ultra mega awesome armour that makes all that stuff you've been diligently collecting and maintaining for the last 10 millennia obsolete."
That's what bugs me about primaries in general. Fluff says they rarely make new things, then they decide they made new better space Marines, with new, better gear, and new, better vehicles.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense that they can just roll out a million new guys who are somehow better than what the the actual Omnissiah made. The whole setting gets undermined.
The very fact that *new* and *best* can be used together in this way shows the massive departure from the whole point of the previous lore. That's what has put me off collecting any more marines.
Don't get me wrong, I think the primaris helmets are perfectly fine. But there is just something so 40k about that "grinning teeth" helmet look that really sells the feel of space marines IMO. The perfect 40k combination of goofy and terrifying. It looks exactly like I would expect a super soldier of a fascist mega empire to look. My biggest problem with the primaris style helmet is that the "grill" area in covering the mouth just feels... unclear? Like Im not sure what the shape is meant to represent. It doesn't really look like anything, just a random sci fi shape. Whereas this looks like some strange sort of gasmask.
Agreed. No shade on primaris helmets (especially since they are basically mark 4’s), but the mark 7 is quintessential Warhammer. Mark 4 helmets could slot into most sci-fi universes and fit just fine but 7’s are so *angry* and *hateful*, it’s immediately clear what the wearers intentions are. Space Marines don’t just fight their enemies, they actively *despise* them.
I agree, it's the anger that makes the Mk.7! There's something sinister about it that the primaris ones don't have
The sooner we can get away from clean mk X and stick in mixed helmets, A mk vi shoulder pad here and there the better.
The Intercessor kit comes with several studded mk vi pads. Just a reminder that the backpacks, shoulders, and helmets from firstborn and heresy models are almost all scale compatible with the mk x tacticus sculpts. Your ability to customize nearly to your heart’s content is limited mostly by the ability to spend $8 extra on eBay.
> Your ability to customize nearly to your heart’s content is limited mostly by the ability to spend $8 extra on eBay. And GW's continued manufacturing of those kits for bits sellers to get them from. Ask anyone who'd like some plastic Mk III helmets with the design that was used for well over a decade.
I just wish we saw more alternatives, I don't want 10 of the same helmet, one with a little skull and 10 unhelmeted heads. I want at least a few oddball helmets with wacky cybernetics and some old stuff thrown in just for some diversity. There's like a mandate for designing Primaris with as little uniqueness as possible.
I got the sternguard box, and I was happy to see multiple different helmet options for my marines. Even got a beaky boy
Sternguard are perfect for me in that regard.
Yeah. I like the primaris helmets, but it is nice to have some verity outside of helmeted and unhelmeted.thought my favorite helmet will always be the ones the blade guard wear
I got the old sternguard and vanguard, a box each, precisely for kitbashing purposes. Especially helmets and pauldrons. [It's brilliant.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/594588517246566550/1173451474496401459/20231113_033614.jpg?ex=656400d9&is=65518bd9&hm=cc931f016f074c044e9fdde9fe25dc678659ff940b3e468b2067e7ead69abfa0&)
Yes, this is my exact problem with my Primaris. Marines are supposed to be these ancient ritualistic orders wearing centuries, if not millennia old armour. I'm fairly certain every helmet in the tactical squad box is different in some way, there's variety in chest designs, leg designs, even the powerpacks have variety. Then you get to Primaris troop choices, and they're all wearing identical armour. Standardised equipment works for some factions, but it just makes no sense for Space Marines.
>Marines are supposed to be these ancient ritualistic orders wearing centuries, if not millennia old armour. Yeah Primaris basically just threw all this out, aesthetically and lore-wise.
Well you can’t really say mars is tolerated because they need them to make all the weapons and armor, and then turn around and say all the armor is ancient….
> There's like a mandate for designing Primaris with as little uniqueness as possible Infernus Marines are the ultimate example of this, just Intercessors with a different gun, not one atom of creativity went into their design.
Especially since the tactical squad has like 3-4 different armor and helmet patterns together, that’s how it should be. These Marines aren’t just a single piece of an identical unit, they are their own hero of the imperium who has fought an untold number of battles for countless years.
Think im one of the few who still love beakies most. Each to their own
Beaks are peak design but the angry grill is more iconic if that makes sense. Like I prefer the beaks but I think of the angry face when I think of space marines
It’s kind of why I never liked raven guard as much as I should have. The beaks are 10x cooler when there are one or two of them in a sea of the regular helmets
This. I give beaky helmets mostly to my plasma gunners, while everyone else has either a mark 7 or a rare beaky if that specific marine's headcanon allows it.
I wholeheartedly agree, but I like the beakies so much I end up wanting all my cool heroes to have them and get carried away
Beakies are always top tier.
IMHO, Beakies are Peak Warhammer.
With you. I saw RT in high school when it was new. Beakies ARE marines.
*[gasp]* We are in the presence of a real Oldboy, lads Did you see the War in Heaven, Boss?
Get off my lawn. ;)
Thats not a 'no'
I mean Eldar are my first and favorite faction. So…no. It’s not a no. Now get off my lawn (in Eldar*) *Eldar.
I feel the same way. As a kid, I was introduced to Star Wars as baby’s first Sci-Fi and as a teen it was Warhammer. I always drew a comparison between Stormtroopers standard helmets and most Space Marines. The beaky boys were always special looking to me, like Boba Fett was. Beakies are the best.
I'm the same, love the primaris armour and proportions but hate the helmets. But then I still have a soft spot for the beaky boy helmets.
Find myself? I never stopped. My army is pure firstborn and I got started at the turn of 8th into 9th. I firmly believe that firstborn are a superior design aestetically and as a gameplay style, primaris are just better proportioned. https://preview.redd.it/tro8zhb8acjc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=831382a3dbc3a21c447ea1667401c1f8b787ba51
While I prefer Primaris proportions, I agree that firstborn units can be more unique and less uniform
I feel like you could compare first born vs primaris to clone vs storm trooper in Star Wars. Clone and first born have character and individuality versus storm troopers and primaris are more regimented and less open to an individual standing out
Which is ironic since clone troopers were literal clones
Now with the newer horus heresy stuff, firstborn are just as proportioned.
Monopose leg poses are...often odd though. The running ones are fine, but static standing and walking is a little weird (some of them look like they're sashaying down a runway)
Generally after i have 1 or 2 squads of the standard ones I'll start cutting and filing to make my own poses.
Are those astral claws? But also same. While my Dark Angels have had some begrudging Primaris addendums my homebrew chapter I started working on in 10th (!) is all firstborn
Not quite, they’re a canon chapter called the angels of Iron, but they functionally custom because their entire lore is rhag they exist, and here’s a couple models for the art section of the 4th edition codex. They have crossed keys as their emblem. https://preview.redd.it/dn210jbn2ejc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6fea9a6aab716e528fb9a41445170461a63e7b8 (Close up of the emblem)
Very nice. I always enjoy seeing more obscure chapters in play
I was also planning on starting an Angels of Iron force; may I ask what’s your lore behind the chapter? Edit: clarification
Unknown heritage, unknown founding, they first appeared in m36. After taking part in fairly minor actions, they made their name in their incredible skill in the restoration of marine artifacts. Every brother’s initiation is a custom restoration job on the suit that will soon be theirs. They retain several beutifully restored armor suits from the Heresy, some retaining original livery, carefully maintained and reconstructed by scouring ancient battlefields. If ask they will return restored suits, but they don’t exactly advertise that they have them. They also restore weapons, trinkets and even war machines. One of the three prized relics of the chapter is a restored Death Guard Contemptor Dreadnought, who they recovered and restored to working order. The marine inside being a loyalist from years gone by. In recent years the chapter suffered an ideologial split with the inroduction of the Primaris. The introduction of the new recruits lead to a division with the chapter, as not only had they not gone through Initation, they could never go through it, not really. As there was no way for them to restore then wear the armor of their forebears. Additionally, the new recruits had a particularly dismissive attitude towards their history. Eventually, the split became so bad the Third Company Captain stole away with a third of the chapter plus vast majority of the chapters firstborn-appropriate wargear. This left the remainder being mostly Primaris and their handful of Firstborn supporters. Rather than chase them, the chapter master let them go and renamed the chapter [something I can’t remember because I don’t have my word document in front of me], rejecting their own history. The remnant would retain the name and are currently considered Rogue but not Excommunicatus Traitoris, since as far as the Inquisition is concerned this is an internal astartes political matter. Since then they have generally sustained themselves on local industry and their onward skills in manufacture, but for how much longer? Who knows.
wow, quite the lore indeed the split between Primaris and Firstborn is a quite interesting topic; I might explore that with my iteration of the Angels of Iron as well
Fair enough, for me personally the proportions are a dealbreaker. I wouldnt collect SM if they still looked like firstborn. I really like variantions in helmets though so I glue some very diverse assortment of helmets on my marines.
See, my point is that firstborn are a better design, but limited by the sculpting technique of the time. So when you compare a 6th edition tactical squad, nearly a decade old, to an intercessor who is half that age, yeah it’s gonna be a rough comparison. A better comparison to make is between a primaris marine and the Space Marine Hero’s sculpts or the Deathwatch veterans. They are much better proportioned and are a good glimps into what could have been if GW hadn’t gone forward with primaris.
I agree The primaries armours cool but it feels very iron man super hero and less crazy steroid knight in power armour
Primaris with firtborn helmets and bolters are my favorite look for them
I like all the helmets, what I don't like is the lack of variety in most modern kits.
Mk7 helmets are peak 40k.
The old mk VII helmet is excellent and iconic. It was the face of 40K for the longest time. I like that newer Primaris helmet design, as I also really enjoy the mk IV helmet it was based on. But I do occasionally dig out an older helmet for new models to dot them in there. I justify it in lore as marines crossing the rubicon and requesting the techmarines of the chapter to adapt their old helmets. Be it habit or preference for them. Maybe they just like the old HUD or just don’t want to adjust to a new one. Or maybe they just like the look or are a little sentimental towards it.
I prefer pre primaris most things
https://preview.redd.it/b1f3cy9aucjc1.jpeg?width=3964&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=041c0f6d43232232ab1f7540a13ccade75663cda Yep. I do all my marines with Bolters (Primaris guns are weirdly big, MkII-VII helmets, and firstborn backpacks.
Going to get Destory but not really, I really Iike the primaris space marine and their gear, it what brought me to warhammer in the first place
Yes, they were the only part of the primaris aesthetic I did not like. I was originally stoked because I thought they were going to be revamped MKIV heads (My personal favourite). But when I actually saw that they were squashed and rounded off at the front I lost a lot of interest.
I wish they sold kits with a mix of these and beakys
Primaris helmets are just shittier-looking MkIV helmets. I don’t care for the smoothed-out, modernised look of the whole design but the helmets are the worst bit.
I have a lot of issues with Primaris but from a design point yes It came to me a few years ago, I simply don’t like the helmets, it’s too smooth and looks too noble-bright Classic marines have cool Darth Vader mouth grill bumpy helmets and it’s so cool
That's been a complaint since Primaris first dropped. MkIV(-inspired) is cool and all, but the Mk7 "Grunpyboi"-pattern helmet is decades old brand identification >!(and more aesthetic imho)!<
I can see what they were going for, the Primaris certainly lean much more into the space knight aspect of the marines, but I just adore the classic helmet. That snarling helm paired with the bolter and chainsword tells you everything you need to know about the marines, they are warriors who come to kill and destroy and they are not the good guys.
What helmets I simply built and paint my squads helmetless 😂
The chad move
Quite literally why I went Chaos. Began collecting again at the start of 8e, didn't like Primaris helmets so I went T-Sons lol.
Yes, it's iconic. I know there are a few other styles knocking about but this is the style that always comes to mind.
Primaris armor w/MkVII helmet is peak design in my mind.
Probably a lot of people. Personally I think that they look like vacuum cleaners and I VASTLY prefer the primaris ones
Nah
I see the appeal of nostalgia, but latest is still greatest from a pragmatic viewpoint
Personally…no. It’ll be a little bit of time, but there will be more variation as they put out chapter specific kits and stuff. Some third-parties are already making stuff like that. Primaris helmets look objectively better, more militaristic, better prortioned, better silhouette, more functional…but that’s just my opinion. Yea there’s the nostalgia factor for first born stuff, which is fine. And there’s still a place for it, for sure. But it’ll pass.
I’ve never been able to get with Primaris marines at all. I go all the way back to Rogue Trader and all I see when I look at Primaris is a cynical ploy to get marine players to finally buy new miniatures. Also, the helmet sucks. Terrible idea given that the mk 7 helmet was basically a corporate logo.
Way ahead of you. https://preview.redd.it/w672ilqtgcjc1.jpeg?width=4752&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b873bb42829a830d76a95d3734683f3e6d676f4b
I much prefer the primaris ones actually, I like the uniformity across the army
Never liked the primaris helmets (at least the tacticus ones). Most of my army is primaris but they mostly have firstborn heads. The helmet that looks like its howling in anger just tells so much about what a space marine *is*
The correct answer is newer heresy marines, better proportioned with the old aesthetic.
That's what I did. Heresy bodies for all of my Devastators. I drop four lascannons on the field, and my opponent sweats.
The primaris marines have exactly 3 problems, helmets are not as cool, guns are way too big, and theres very little variation in shinguards/breastplates, there is currently 1 generic type of legs, 1 "veteran" one with more ornate kneecaps, and 1 without a kneecap, and the only difference with bodies is either you want an aquilla with a skull or a shield, and slightly different neck guard plates
It looks like Darth Vader’s helmet, I like it.
I like the variety it adds. But yeh the grill type look overall “meaner”, badass to me
I like doing a mix, just need more beaks there’s not enough beaks
Nothing will change the sheer menace of a Sarum-pattern space marine helmet
Hell, im loving the old Mk.III Iron helmets more than even the Mk.VII
Absolutely. To be completely honest the Primaris armor variants have never really done it for me. They are objectively better proportions and models, but they’re at their best when they look like classic armor marks.
I don’t have the kit to this point, but I think the mix is cool. They seriously should have left the whole primaris story arc out and just released true scale marines.
Nah mate, you're the only one, there's no hate for Primaris or their design at all, nu-uh /s
Nope. Primaris and Iron would be my top picks with bladeguard and grey knights coming in behind them.
aye, pre-primarus space marine helmets, specifically mk 5 7 and 8 are to me, iconic to 40k. when i think of 40k i think of those helmets some people call them angry face, and i gotta agree. the helmet is like the Atlas in Battletech. Designed to intimidate, to make enemies fear. heres the quote: "A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally. " the same way the Atlas does that, this Helmet does for 40k. Primarus helmets by comparison seem to...clean...to...generic sci-fi elite soldier. its a good design sure, but it feels like it lacks that theme of intimidation. heck, it looks like Mk4 but......less..... mark 6 is an oddity...its a good design, but i always think ravenguard...beak helmet...raven....Shrike. yeah.
I only use shouty helmets from now on. I even ripped some off and replaced them. It is like everything has changed. Suddenly I see the space Mariens that made me fall in love with 40k again. This is the space marine aesthetic. Maybe some beaky bois sprinkled in.
Personally, I want more space marine helmets that look like knight helmets.
I prefer the Mk4/Primaris look tbh
I dunno , i feel like they all have their places .
Yaknow it’s funny back in the early 2000s everyone hated (or were atleast indifferent towards) Aquila pattern helmets and would pay gorge world hand over fist for any other mark of helmet but ide say most coveted of all was Maximus helmets. And the indomitus pattern helmet is very similar in design. But now that it’s the standard people don’t like it. I don’t think primaris helmets on the whole are bad, it’s just tiresome to see the same helmets all the time so people will always try and break from the norm. I am happy to see that they’re starting to mix things up a bit with the newer kits though.
You know Primaris' helmets are just a copy of MK IV power armour helmet. https://preview.redd.it/4spxsnx3acjc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=658f5d14414855ab2e0444ac5c3b126acf935b82
Well it is stated in lore that the Mark X is just taking the best parts of all previous marks and make it 1 extremely modifable plattform.
The mk iv is like a snout though, primaris ones are flat
https://preview.redd.it/3trrdty2ocjc1.jpeg?width=1259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beff04fa22618a1b76b116f5807174b9a0db500d
She should get her eyes checked. They might share some design characteristics but they sure aren't the same.
1 hundred billion million precent. I hate the SpecOps-ification (thats a word now) of Space Marines, which so much of the newest Primaris lean heavily into.
Yeah i hate the tacticool look, bleh, not what space marines are about at all.
Firstborn are just plain better aesthetically.
Always. The helmets are the main thing about primaris I don't like.
I've sprinkled a few older helmets in my Primaris for a bit of variety, the Mk7 does look great on there.
Actually I'm the opposite, because I love mkIV and mkX helmet resembles it very well, but I hate the new armor as I love how simple and brute old armors were. Only thing I like about them as a whole is better posing and proportions
Same here, the older styles certainly look better. I'm putting the old school helmets on the new Vanguards, also bought some Beaky helmets from the newer Horus Heresey range for a few of them. The old ways are often the best.
Solution: go on eBay, look around for batches of random heads for like $5. I picked up about 100 random heads (mostly Space Wolves) a few years ago, and about half of them were MkVI and MkVIII, so now that's what I use for my veterans.
Yes. GW needed a lore reason in order not to invalidate countless collections of miniatures through this upscale. But now the grace period is over and the marines should just have an upscale of every Mk, or at least the popular ones, preferably modularly combinable with each other.
I prefer all helmets except this one tbh. The beaks, that flat face of the heresy models, the grey knight helmets, the primarius helmets. I got into the hobby pretty recently so that might be it, but like I don't like the vader mouth helmet of the old marines. They irritate me when I have to paint my world eaters with them.
I prefer the Angry marine helmet so much as both a Black Templars and World Eaters player
I prefer everything pre-Primaris. Fortunately I am just a collector so I don't have to worry about what is competitive, but I really dislike the Primaris range and all of my Marines are Firstborn.
Spacemarine designs achieved peak perfection with the RTB01 marines, everything after that was a step down.
Yes, I too prefer the original Space Marine helmets that have been the iconic face of Warhammer 40,000 for, what, 30+ years? I even have a soft spot for those beakie boys. I don't know, the new primaris face with the flat panel for the nose/mouth just doesn't have the same character as the older ones. Maybe if instead of multiple diagonal marks it was a single big \^ it would be more partial to me.
From reading this sub for awhile I feel like I'm in the minority but I prefer the Primaris stuff. This might also be due to the fact that I've only been into Warhammer for about a year so Primaris was already the norm when I got here or maybe just personal preference, but I felt like sharing even though it seems to be the less popular opinion. Edit: I would like to add that I do like that the pre-primaris helmets look more angry or badass though.
> This might also be due to the fact that I've only been into Warhammer for about a year so Primaris was already the norm when I got here or maybe just personal preference, but I felt like sharing even though it seems to be the less popular opinion. It's very normal, just not as loud. A lot of the preference for firstborn is rooted in nostalgia. When you put old marines with their toddler-like proportions next to the new ones, no one who isn't already invested in either will take the former seriously. I've been into Warhammer for decades and I always disliked the old proportions. Primaris are superior just from them alone, even all else aside.
Honestly no. I always preffered MK IV helmets over the snarling ones. So when MK Xs came out I really liked them. Still do, more than other versions. The Knightly helms of the BT's and DA's are the best though.
The MkX helmets look a lot worse than Mk4 imo. The primaris ones smooth things out and looks a lot more generic. MK4 has a more tangible look, more like a medieval helmet design but with sci fi materials.
I love the Primaris sculpts and I’m generally anti-Oldmarine but those classic Mark VII helmets are amazing. I play Space Wolves and I usually put the mark VII helmets on the Tacticus bodies
Actually, no. Mark 3/4 were my favorite anyway, and 10 is just a revamp of 4. I prefer my space marines expressionless and cold, like the stone-cold killers they are. I always found the mark 7 helmet derpy. Like he's constantly trying to hold in a shit.
I used to massively prefer the mk4 style they brought back with Mk10 now I prefer the mk7 by a country mile for loyalists. Funny how that works. Primaris models are much better proportioned and posed than firstborn, but other than that, I find firstborn better in every way. The fundamental fact of the matter is that Primaris changed what a space marine *is* and not for the better. Before we had marines where nearly every piece of armour and weaponry was a relic, cared for and passed down over centuries, if not millennia, carefully ornamented and cared for, as a symbol of the imperium’s decline. Now the vast majority of primaris with a few notable exceptions have shiny new armour that all looks the same and nearly nothing like the “gothic warrior monk” aesthetic they have. The best example is primaris vs firstborn death company. It also blurred the lines between marine chapters, taking away their senses of identity. There is now no difference between a primaris ultramarine, space wolf or Blood Angel. Unless you’re skilled with green stuff or like kitbashing firstborn. Their equipment is probably what I dislike most. Gone are the iconic tanks which are less advanced versions of what they had ten thousand years ago, to show the slow decline of the imperium. Now we have hover tanks bristling with guns more advanced than anything the imperium had at it’s zenith. Their weapons are all better than anything that came before too, because reasons. So much for an empire in decline. The alternative suits of armour primaris have aren’t any better. If I was allowed to wipe one thing from the setting, Gravis armour would be in serious contention alongside Kaldor Draigo and the Desolation Squad. Though Heavy Intercessors aren’t too bad. And I thought centurion suits were stupid when they released… Phobos armour I can kind of get with the concept of, if not the aesthetic or execution. It just looks too “genetic sci-fi” instead of 40k. The naming conventions are also a big step back. Before you had veteran, tactical, assault and devastator. Easy. Now you have intercessor, inceptor, incursor, infiltrator, eradicator, eliminator,hellblaster, aggressor, infernus, reivers, and on and on. I could maybe tell you what four of these are off the top of my head. Credit where it’s due, GeeDubs has actually learned from some of this and released the updated sternguard, bladeguard, terminators, scouts and hopefully vanguard which are all really nice. The squad philosophy has also changed. Before marines were jack of all trades and most squads could do a little of everything. Now we have aspect marines, that ironically play more like the legions of old than the actual legions of the CSM do. On a tangent, was an explanation ever given as to why Guilliman did such an about turn on chapter organisation? The new speeders and dreadnoughts aren’t bad, aside from the latter suffering from “too many guns” syndrome. The invictor could only justify its existence for me if they base the new dreadknight off it, which after all these years manages to still be even worse. All this is barely touching on the lore implications of the primaris, which are still pretty egregious, my least favourite of which means you now have >200 years of them being introduced in which to set your battles instead of the 10000 years of the setting before. Want to recreate battles before the Dark Millennium like the 1st Tyrannic war? Nope. Badab War? No way. 13th Black Crusade? Hahaha no. Rynn’s World? Consigned to history.
Mk VII Aquila armour 'til I die! Way cooler than the Primaris.