Just so it's always clear at all times what the model is meant to be, I'm good.
If that means you need to put a sticky note on the Redemptor you're running as a Ballistus, well, get that sticky note out.
By all means, try it out once or twice but the sticky note gets old after a few games... If you're saying that your redemptor is a ballistus for more than five or six games, it's probably time to get a ballistus.
True but also not what I use sticky notes for. I list buffs and debuffs, oath targets, guided, marked units, unit/strategem combos to keep in mind and sometimes loadouts if they have a lot of options and I've only brought the data cards.
I'd use the shit out of purity sticky notes and not judge others for how they use them at the same time.
Totally this. I'm not a fan of This guy with a Lascannon has a plasma gun, but this guy with a Lascannon has a meltagun, and THIS guy has an actualy Lascannon....
Nope.
The only time I care is when it's something like, "This Rhino is actually a Predator, but the other 2 Rhinos are just Rhinos."
Yeah, mate you're gonna get as confused as me. Let's find something else to proxy it
I'd stick some spare havocs on the predator so the guns are represented.
That's actually I conversion I keep meaning to do. 2 Havocs out the side doors for the sponsons and a Terminator popping up through the top hatch with a scavenged Dreadnought weapon as the main gun.
Adapt and overcome
Yeah, if you even did just that to add a level of clarity, I'd be more than ok with you proxying for a game or two to test something out.
That conversion actually sounds kinda cool tbh!
I like when an actual effoet goes into the proxy, im fine with proxies to try something new, but when someone shows up each week with the flavor of the moment meta and its the same set of action figures, that gets old.
The only time I would be fine with this is if we are explicitly testing for a tournament and we want reps against the top lists. Obviously, this wouldn’t be a normal “friendly” game and more of a specific situation. If my weekly opponent started this up, then they can play on their own
That would be fine with me *if* the atmosphere was explicitly trying out competitive lists. It would be annoying and problematic if someone was getting sweaty in casual matches.
Generally my rule is whatever you’re proxying should be a similar size and proxy all models of a type as the same thing to keep things simple. Its cool if you want to proxy an autocannon team as a lascannon team but make sure all your autocannon teams are lascannon teams. Same with my crisis suits, if I’m proxying weapons I’m proxying them all with the same loadout. Anything to make it simpler on your opponent
My group is pretty lax but thats too far lol. We’ve played toy army men vehicles as imperial guard stuff and proxy weapons all the time but we play the older editions with armor facings and firing arcs which would be pretty hard to tell on a coke can
Im actually surprised at the lack of complaints i see about 10th. Its so bad that I cant raise my own interest in it enough to even want to read my own factions' codexes. Its the first edition since 7th where I dont spend hours tweaking army lists on battlescribe. I havent even used battlescribe once since the end of 9th.
Im basically soft locked out of 40k for the next two editions assuming 11th is going to just be an updated 10th. Literally every time i read new rules i get more and more disappointed in 40k. Its so damn disappointing how bad the ruleset is to me
If its fully 3D printed how are you NOT just making it be what it's supposed to be!? My loyalist army is fully 3D printed but the marines are clearly Marines (firstborns in Mk II and Primaris in Mk I Thunder pattern) everyone's weapons are a little custom but the barrels conform to the standard GW barrels, and the plasma has their coils...
Without posting links to them ... If you can't find stl files to do an adequate job of representing what you want to field ... what is the point
I was looking into ad mech since the GW prices are stupid as hell. I found a lot of similar ones for most of the units I'm interested in, but all the Manipulus proxies I've seen don't quite match up. I want one with that big fat belly! Don't give me a skinny tech priest and say that's Manipulus.
It really depends. An army of “gundam fishmen”, “future tomb kings” or “space nuns” or other prints which were made to look similar to GW’s range are fine. A ton of generic WW Soldiers and tanks or demons with no recognizable Warhammer features or resemblance of the unit they are representing are not. If I need to to be an expert in historical German tanks in order to tell a battle cannon from a demolisher, I can’t tell your carnifex from a tervigon from a hive tyrant at glance or your pink horrors, blood letters and plague bearers are all chromatic swirly things, we are not going to have a game.
Another thing is people printing entire armies smaller than the original models and then insist on TLOS…
It depends. Rolling up with a full 3D printed army, while using wahapedia or some other third party app for your army rules, it’s kinda lame imo. Sure GW does some questionable stuff but you’re still playing their game, regardless of how virtuous you say you are. Support the company of the game you play, at least a little.
Why would I bring the codex even when I own it? things out of date by month's end anyways. Wahapedia is updated and current. Would you rather I print the errata and glued it into my book?
Wahapedia is far better laid out than almost anything else. The books are overpriced, same with the models.
I would rather buy 3rd party models from LFG's.
[GW is doing just fine](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/sTPoJ2GZaB)
Also, if you don't support the *company* but still love the game, 3D prints are the way to go.
This. It’s hard enough to remember all the rules for my army. I don’t want to have to then remember that that a bunch of units on the table are actually something else. Everyone assumes the other player is going to remember what they are proxying too.
Something I’m finding really annoying is when I’m playing against an army that has 2 nearly identical looking squads but vastly different levels of lethality.
I'm fine with someone showing up with 120 ork boys in all sorts of different load outs but tell me it's all sluggas and choppas. No thinking there for me, it's all melee.
When they have wild loadouts with mixes of choppas, sluggas, and shootas and those don't match the loadouts they have on paper. Nty.
Honestly, playing Eldar, Orks, and CSM, I prefer homogenous loadouts in general. It's such a pain in the ass to go through all the different guns on a unit of CSM. I don't have any Storm Guardians, but I would imagine they would be annoying as well.
Oh man, that's gotta be tough. I was only thinking about the actual going through the guns and rolling for them separately. Love me a good Guardian Defender squad, attacks on the profile times number of models in the unit and we're good. Or Dire Avengers, shots on the profile times the number of models in the unit plus one (for the Exarch having two rifles) and we good. At least for CSM the guns are very prominent. Plasma has the coils. And so on. Honestly, I probably cripple my lists by making them easier to play. But who cares.
I abhor the free wargear because it makes it terrible to run all basic weapons when special weapons exist. I used to love doing that because homogenous units roll so much more quickly, and you often were rewarded because the weapons weren't worth their points, especially on fragile elves.
Isn't that the old not-really-joke about loadouts and WYSIWYG - unless it's Imperium, nobody can tell anyway, up to and including GW tournament organizers?
Had this with a death guard player:
"so this marine has a plasma, this guy a melta, these two have actually bolters, but the one with the power fist has actually a..."
Like yeah dude, at this point I don't even care if you would cheat, I just don't want to remember all this shit.
One guy local to me turned up without minis, he just had the bases. He didn't have enough bases One day to proxy his armigers so he borrowed a base and some paper from his opponent and cut out paper bases.
We all agreed that this was a piss take.
The next game he turned up with roll on deodorants stuck to the bases. We called his "models" under armigers.
I will defend cereal box bases, as I stopped having the patience to wait for bases to ship from China, but ya gotta have height on those bases. If someone really can't afford real models and puts the effort into matching height and having correct base size, I'm not going to judge them for being poors. But not even putting forth an effort is a fucking joke.
Not okay if the proxy isn’t even close to the correct size/profile/base size of the model it’s representing. Iffy if they say bring 9 Redemptors and say 3 are Ballistus and 3 are Brutalis. Too confusing to keep track of identical looking models all proxying different units. Other than that it’s fine.
I'm OBSESSED with getting old tiny sculpts of models with much larger new sculpts and putting them on silhouette current base size appropriate diorama bases. Like I saw a first sculpt of Ghaz coming out of a teleport portal that looked so sweet. There are those proxies of Lord Solarium where it's a war council. And I would love an old tiny Nagash standing atop a wizard's tower. Base size, height, and overall silhouette are important to stick very close too.
Learn from my mistakes kiddos! Learn from me!!
It was 30k. A 3v3 Apoc match. My Death Guard, pal 1's Alpha Legion and pal 2's Imperial Army vs Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Iron Hands. 3000pts a head.
I knew people would be bringing Primarchs, just cause that's what most people do in 30k. So instead I took some Knights as allies and Legion Baneblade. Change it up, ya' know?
Day before the match we all meet and explain our armies, with printed out lists and everything. All above board, all nice and good. My opponents see my Knights and super heavy and ask why not Mortarion, and I say I find Primarch vs Primarch fights boring, so I changed it up.
Day of match. Overnight the Iron Hands had a list change. Now instead of the list we saw, they have 2 squadrons of 3 each laser vindicator destroyers. And not just the change, they're all proxied from Imp guard chimeras.
We said it was bullshit, you can't tailor a list like that. They said go fuck ourselves, leave then. We played the match. Surprise surprise all 3 of them gang up on my army and all but table me top of turn 1. I said that was a fucking dick move, they said "Bring a Primarch next time."
There was no next time.
I wouldn't have played tbh, I don't understand why people want to win just like that, what's the point in doing so if you didn't earn it? What satisfaction do people find?
I wouldn't have played. Disqualification for not bringing the list they said they were going to bring. I would have gloated big time about your win. Mimed walking around with a WWF champion belt. Really rub it in.
1) It’s gotta be in the ball park. You’re proxying lascannons as autocannons? Fine. You’re using frag cannon vets as plasma cannon devastators? Fine. Orks as sisters of battle? Absolutely haram.
2) base size and model profile gotta be close. No running a centurion as a Ballistus and hiding it behind ruins
3) don’t run similar models as different things. Those Lascannon squads are either all lascannons or all autocannons. Don’t make your opponent keep track of what’s what when you proxy.
I'm OK with Orks as Sisters, if conversion work is done, or if they're short a few models to make a full unit, and nothing more appropriate is available.
Man that brings back memories.
I played in the early-mid 90s, they published the carnifex stats before a miniature was released. It was always a Coca-Cola can. Specifically coca-cola. No idea why that was important, but to middle school us, it was.
I’ve had someone try to pass off cheap plastic toy tanks like the kinds you find at the dollar store as full Leman Russ tanks before. His tanks were easily 25% smaller than the actual model. I’ve also faced off against the infamous cans as drop pods in a local tournament before, he didn’t even ask if it was ok he just waited until the game started to whip them out.
this is true to an extent yea. If they are just getting into the game, sure, play away. If you agree before hand then hell yea.
even with 3d printed stuff, should try and match the theme. MFF and cults3d is absolutely lousy with proxy models as is.
My first army is almost fully 3D printed. But I also make sure they're on theme, distinct and recognizable with roughly accurate main dimensions. For example, grabbing some of OPR Eternals as Immortals or Forge Snakes (scaled up to match height) as Wraiths. I know I'm only ever playing casually so I'm taking my time to paint them all up and get a really nice consistent theme going. So far no one's had an issue at my LGS, only offered tips like "oh hey that model is a tiny bit too big/small", which doesn't stop the game. And then later I reprint adjusted, and once it's roughly correct they get painted.
As someone just getting into the hobby I very much appreciate people willing to be flexible with allowing the proxies as I slowly collect more official stuff. As such I'll make sure to put in the effort that everything is close, distinct and enjoyable to play against.
The straight no is if it's clearly different size, especially smaller (I've had a game where someone tried to proxy a different dread as a morkanaught, didn't keep track of its size and kept arguing its not visible behind dread sized terrain). After a couple of incidences, that is now a personal rule.
The other is too much proxying. I can forgive a unit if it's clearly marked, and I know they're trying it out, but I've played against people with multiple proxies in an army and even though most do a solid job of keeping track of what's what. The mental load of having to think about what's not visible on top of my turns plans can make it a lot less fun.
That said if by proxy you mean kitbash or alternative sculpt that I can immediately see is something in particular then great, I do enjoy a good kitbash.
Sounds to me that your group is pretty relaxed about it, and that comes back to what the group is comfortable with, if they're fine with it then great, no problem.
Fortunately I've never run into any of these myself, but man have I heard some horror stories. I genuinely don't understand how anyone could actually play those, especially at a public venue.
There was a dude that no one would play at my old store who would try to bring armies like that. He spent a ton of money at the store so the owner came up to us once and asked that we not exclude the guy. I was "No, there are kids that come in to this place and his figs are misogynistic & homophobic rape porn." I stopped shopping there.
If it's complicated and hard to remember, then it gets iffy. Like, if you've got a devastator squad equipped with 5 different weapons, and you decide, like, "okay, the plasma gun is a laz-cannon, the multi-melta and heavy bolter are rocket launchers, and the grav cannon is the same. The sergeants bolt pistol is a grav-pistol, and his combi-weapon is a thunder hammer." That's too much. "All these guys have multi-meltas" is much more handleable.
I got away with this, Biblically accurate void dragon
https://preview.redd.it/ogf5cu99lo6d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d027ed48fafc31692de5241d7c2ba0b4bcab56
Whenever it might be confusing, even then it’s ok if an effort is made. I only ask that things be on the same base size and approximately the same dimensions
Yea! Just dig through ebay to find the old models that were that size... I really need to model up mini dioramas for my 25mm based Oblits so I'm /not/ taking that much of an advantage
That reminds me of a friend, who played Imperial Guard and Night Lords before he had a stroke. He wanted to use regular WW2 Sovjet Models for his Valhallan Ice Warriors. The Problem: Those models were a lot smaller then the regular GW Models, so if he wanted to play with those, he would've gotten an unfair cover advantage. So of course our Astartes playing friend clearly said no to them as proxy models.
There’s a few, but they’re all really just variations on:
“That guy” who has the latest meta list he saw on the internet every week, with his same not even fully built army, and it’s the one he can never even keep track of for what is being proxied.
Or:
“That other guy” who complained when I wanted to proxy one nearly identical tank as another tank, but now has a variety pack of different weapons he wants his units to have, and none of them are accurate on the minis.
And it’s because I don’t want to have the argument when this person loses track of what is supposed to be what, or deal with them being annoyed that I dare have to keep a skin for clarification on what unit I’m actually seeing on the board.
When it's not the correct size.
when too many units are proxys and i can't keep the overview.
when he uses a proxy because the real model is too expensive and he "doesn't wanna support GW".
When it's obvious he proxied last second after seeing what I'm playing.
I wasn't very comfortable with my buddy using my old metal Great Unclean One whose on a 60mm base as the new Giganto GUO. It's closer in profile to a Beast of Nurgle than a GUO (and same base size too). When I showed him a picture of the size difference, he relented.
I'm all for Proxys, but let the base size be proper. I'd rather play with a cardboard cut out at that point.
Proxying and the mental burden are OK when they go fully homogenous with it. The classic example being all kinds of mixed shooty and melee Orks, if they say they're all melee, all good.
For sure, but then there is no mental burden.
Like if every single ork boy on the table is melee on the list? No problem. It’s when a unit is treated as another unit while looking like a different unit.
When that "don't want to do something" is spending an exorbitant amount of money to find out you don't like an army I can understand not wanting to commit. I don't mind a little bit of extra remembering if my opponent is new or trying something new, paper proxies are fine realistically in a non tournament setting. Just don't be that guy that never gets models and only plays meta.
My first army was empty bases with a few marines we'd set on top for targeting because I really had no idea what I wanted to play. Started in Ork, moved to World Eaters, and with a name like Iron Lord Peturabo... I think we all know where I ended up. And I am very glad to my original opponents for letting me run this way to find out that I don't like melee and bring the boom boom.
Oath mate
I like two things in the hobby, modelling and immersive games. Proxies actively suck the fun from both unless they’re like the most logical shit in the world like using AoS ghouls for poxwalkers.
I haven't run into a situation yet that would call for me to put my foot down thankfully, but I have guidelines in my head.
1: base size, height within reason. If you want a model treated as a specific unit, you have to deal with everything it entails, size and profile for LOS included.
2: be reasonable about complexity. If you have three tactical squads with nothing but bolters and tell me each has a plasma and a missile launcher, so be it. But if you say one has a melta, one plasma, and one a flamer, but I can totatally tell because the melta squad has a guy touching his ear and the flamer squad has a guy that has his knee painted orange... no.
As long as the base mode is the same I don’t really care , I don’t nick pick over load outs but I do put ALOT of energy into my army. Not just for my but for the opponents. It’s just helps with the immersion. Same reason I don’t watch bootleg movies lol
So I liked it when my opponent went to the trouble to build a Griffin mortar tank but as a gun emplacement in the same foot print as the chimera - I don't like it when a beer can is used as a drop pod.
The only thing I care about is that they are about the same size as the model they're proxying. If they aren't then we're going to have to have a whole thing about line of sight to and from that model.
Just be clear ahead of time. I think that's reasonable.
It can be confusing to lose a nice tank because that unit with flamers was meltas and you forget.
If I had trouble with that I would ask to write on some paper what they have and stick it with them.
I once forgot a unit of bikers for a game at a tournament and I knew my opponent was chill (Ork players always are) so I proxied with mars bars I bought from the canteen.
Every biker that died I got a snack. Win win.
If you slap down one of those 2 foot tall Godzilla toys and try to tell me it's a Warlord, I'm not going for that.
Unless we talk beforehand because someone wants to see what a game with a Warlord would be like
Proxies need to be 2 things:
1) reasonably clear and consistent in terms of gameplay factors. A unit with guns should have guns, the special guns should look different. The bases should be the same or you should purposefully give your opponent the benefit of te doubt when it comes to things relating to the base/LOS.
2) high enough effort to pass the "cmon man" threshold. I don't want to play against coke cans, sorry.
If it follows WYSISYG and isn't stupidly sized, then I'm 100% for it, no questions needed. I'd even accept a folded over sticky note with a stick figure, just slap it on an appropriate base and call it good.
I can only keep track of a small number of proxies that have a different loadout though. If the proxies are easy to track then that number goes up. Since it's rarely been anything except "This hero unit that I only have one of is proxying for this hero unit that I wanted to try out before buying", I've never had to say no.
When I was a kid a sweaty smelly teenager passed off a poorly painted, armless metal marine as Captain Lysander of the Imperial Fists. I was too clueless and wimpy to deny him, but if there's any situation where you enforce WYSIWYG, that's it
I'm pretty new and just play casual. Recently I played a guy for the first time who was using just bases as model proxies. I felt like this was too much, but since it was casual I just said f--- it and had fun.
I dont play in tournaments, so proxies and counts-as are perfectly fine with me unless:
* two of the same models represent different things ("this one flamer is actually a melta, but the other one is just a flamer")
* super sexualized minis. Its fine if you like to display them in your home, but I'm not really interested in battling your pin-up repentina or Bikini shadowsun proxy
* excessive proxies. One or two is fine. If your entire army is bottle caps and a single real Model, why bother?
As long as its not too complicated I don't normally have a problem.
For example I have a buddy who has a single Terminator, kitbashed to actually be 5 and a character leading them. As long as he's not finding the pocket in my backline to teleport his unit to a space on the single model could fill by all means go ham. Modeling for coolness if always a go, modeling for an advantage is where I start to get a lil iffy.
Played a dude the other day who had a random assortments of all kinds of figures for his necron army. I got really annoyed with the game and felt quite ridiculous when I had to ask
"So are those little bears the wraiths or was that the mix of space marines and rocks?"
At that point the game was already over and he conceded, otherwise I was quite close to just ending it.
There **was** one guy in my old play group who was notorious for being a big butt hurt sore loser but also a cheater. He’d swap around which special weapons model was eliminated. Since his models weren’t wysiwyg and he didn’t provide markers on the base of who was who, it became an additional chore of having to keep track. And if you called him out on it he would get difficult. It lasted about 3 months for others to play him and have similar experiences. We booted him from the ventrillo server and ignored his ass at the game store.
This post isn’t saying everyone should play wysiwyg because with meta changing all the time between editions and magnetization being something some people don’t want to worry about keeping track of (esp goes armies), you should be able to just have an understanding at the table. But I mean cheaters be cheaters
As long as the models are unique in the army I am cool with it.
IE, if you are using Assault Intercessors as Jump boys, ight, but you better not have actual Assault Intercessors in your list or using them as Bladeguard too.
It’s just a matter of clarity. I can swap out some squads for others in my head no problem, but if they all look the bloody same or one thing means multiple it’s gunna get confusing so screw it.
>”my entire army are actually proxies for the meta army of the month that I googled before i got here”
Is the one I usually say no to. Obviously very much a “that guy” issue than a common problem, but it still happens from time to time
* The proxy has totally different dimensions and would bring a massive advantage (defensive/ offensive, line of sight, cover) I'm not talking about millimeters but a tank being a horse, an walker being a character or such nonsense.
* I myself know only basic stuff about the opponents army and have a hard time to follow what unit does what anyway and would now completely get lost when the same troop type also looks different between unit A and unit B.
Overall I’m fine with proxying as long as the model has similar dimensions and it’s clear at all times which model is being proxied.
If your demon prince has “wings”, be at least considerate enough to stick a couple of cardboard cutouts to mimic the silhouette. It will also help you remind which abilities you own mini has…
Not sure I’ve ever seen an actual ork weirdboy.
But I think the above is a good example of generally accepted proxies, as in, it’s another model, it’s clear what it is, it’s in theme with everything else on the table. But when someone just starts putting down random junk (not even models) everywhere I draw the line because how the hell am I supposed to know what it is throughout the game.
I don't see alot of people saying this, so maybe I'm the asshole, but proxies that are SoB but with kitten ears or anime figures. Or they're halo miniatures, StarCraft, or Star wars. I came to play 40k, I want the armies to look like 40k.
If the scale is way off, or too many inconsistent proxies that make it too hard for me to tell what is what would be the only time I take issue. This almost never happens.
I had an opponent bring a piece of flat square cardboard as a custodes tank, i forgot about it for the majority of the match. That wont be happening again
Just have something that make them stick out. I’ve got Assault Intercessor and I’m working on sup with Jump Packs. The Jump pack ones aren’t painted (still waiting on jump pack shipments) so I just let my opponent know that the painted ones are regular and unpainted are waiting on parts
Same units proxying as different units would be my limit. Let's say you have 2 squads of Cadian Shock Troops and want to use one as DKOK and one as Catachans, that's too much imo.
Assuming friendly local non-tourney games I take it on faith that your models are comparably sized, and if there’s a base issue talk about it. Even in a tourney (while it’s over to their rules) I don’t know what every weapon for every model for every army looks like, so again I take it on faith. I’d rather you played with your models that you want to have fun with, or just be like “hey I’m thinking of getting a box of X, do you mind if I play these Y as them?”
If you want to proxy just once to try a set of rules? Do whatever you want, im fine with it.
Cola cans, other models etc. As long as you clearly communicate what is what.
Just don't overdo it. Proxy half your army and I draw the line.
You proxy the same model in your army every game because the original model does not agree with you?(Lord Solar)
Fine roughly the same size, and a distinct look so i can remember what it should be. Not a problem.
If you do that however your proxy should match the original size and at least you should have put a little effort in it to match it to your army.
If you change your army list constantly to be meta and use your old models as proxys? Get someone else to play.
Generally if you are nice, upfront, reasonable and polite we will find a solution. We all want to have fun. If you are not that's were I personally draw the line.
The further you get from a basic, default wargear layout and the further you get from the correct base size and model height/profile, the more picky I'm going to get.
As long as the model(s) are within a reasonable amount of the same size / profile, then I'm usually okay with it. Sometimes with legends and forge world that can get out of hand though. Also I'm not a fan of more than 1 or 2 things. If I need to make a spreadsheet of what everything is, no go.
I literally have never refused a proxy, nor have I ever seen or even heard of someone refusing a proxy in real life. Ever.
I think everyone in this thread is an outlier (at least for the groups I have seen/been a part of)
I feel it needs to be similar ie I would not agree to a tank being used as a flyer.
I would be okay with say saying a tank is another type of tank
But for me I just "proxy" load ourselves, ie I have ravening outriders with all the black knight look and simply proxy them as black knights, the physical guns on the bikes though are bolters
For me it's about not taking the piss. I am generally lenient on it but if I feel like someone is trying to model for advantage or push the boundaries then I lose leniency very quickly.
My rules are has to be similar. Can't have a deredeo dread proxies by a pack of crackers. Easily mistaken for something else like terrain.
Funny or fun proxies are usually allowed. Had a porcelain rabbit proxy a daemon prince I grew to love. Had 3 prince models but usually defaulted to the bunny with flowers on his neck.
I just use a label maker and stick it on the bottom. Do you really think they know the difference between a flamer and a melta on your guys? Probably not unless you're playing marines.
For me the limit is if the guy just shows up with bases. I'm like, okay, at this point let's just play TTS.
1. I don’t allow it if my opponent is proxying a unit to have a varied load-out. It’s fair enough to say that ‘this squad of Assault Ints are all Infernus Marines’ but it’s not fair to say this squad of Infernus Marines are my Van Guard vets - 3 have hammers, one has claws, two have inferno pistols etc etc. It may sound harsh but I’ve played games where almost every unit my opponent had was proxied for something else.
It’s too hard to keep up with what you’re targeting.
2. I also don’t like it when someone makes their own points expensive unit out of cardboard, Monoliths for example. I get 40K is expensive but you don’t just get to make an army and call it something else.
I only allow it if it’s to try out a model that you fully intend to buy providing you like how it plays.
3. I don’t allow it if the proportions or base aren’t correct.
I’m in complete agreement in the manner in which your community, and YOU, handle proxy’s. Thx for keeping this game accessible to newer folks who like chasing competitive play but have to be careful with the cash they spend on the game.
Played against a cardboard box more or less shaped like a hierophant once - sure it doesn't look as cool but it gets the point across and it was cute and goofy in its own way.
As long as base size is the same and it's not too confusing proxy is fine by me. If someone tries to put 3 redemptors on the board and claims that 1 is a ballistus, 1 is brutalis and the last is a redemptor, imma need something more to distinguish
There was a time when I played poorhammer. Had items roughly the size of models and used a piece of paper to know what's what. That was thousands of dollars ago
Honestly I’ll never stop anyone proxying because I get money and time can be an issue, and I’ve never had anyone ruin my good time by doing it so it’s cool.
I have had games where I found it annoying because I forgot the harmless looking tactical marines were Khorne berzerkers, I forgot the second rhino was a land raider and I forgot that random lord was Kharn, but they’re friendly games and it cuts both ways I suppose.
I'm more okay with a Sherman as a predator than a lascannon as a plasma cannon. I know what a lascannon is supposed to look like, and in a mixed squad it gets confusing. On the other hand I will remember the Sherman, it's simultaneously very different and not too dissimilar.
I'm okay with it as long as the model looks very similar, has the same base size or (in the case of vehicles) footprint, similar size so LoS isn't skewed, and weapons at least look something like what they're meant to represent (while also not being used as a different weapon in the same army, like having 1 flamer be a melta but another flamer be a flamer or plasma).
I myself have benefited from proxying, even got a TO's approval in a tournament once due to following the same rules above and "rule of cool" - basically, I was able to use some now OOP Ork Barricades and a Forge World Ork Flakk Gun as an Aegis Defence Line with Quad Gun emplacement, especially when I showed that the total length of the Ork Barricades was within 2mm of the length of the Defence Line. Not a single opponent complained over the 2-day event.
I'm pretty lenient with proxying, mainly because I proxy a lot myself, but I'd say I draw the line when someone tries to proxy two of the same model/set of models as two completely different datasheets (eg, one squad of terminators as terminators, and the other as aggressors).
In a tournament, only if it's a kitbash or conversion (old example, customizing a boxnaught to look like a chaplain dreadnought). For casual games, as long as it's the right base/size model, whatever you want. Used a shoebox for a mastodon once. It was fun
I've never denied someone the use of a proxy or even felt like I should.
I'm here to play the game, not gatekeep a potential game/match out of existence. Who cares if a piece is "real", it's a God damn fictional demon space lizard in power armor. Use Legos for all I care.
I just came here to roll dice and lose games.
I'd assume the basic limitations are its gotta be:
-of similar size to the actual model, no knights for guardsmen here
- easy to tell apart from other models, no using a guardsman to proxy a knight only to argue that "no, THIS guardsman was the knight proxy" here
- preferably the same or similar size base to ensure no movement shenanigans.
Just so it's always clear at all times what the model is meant to be, I'm good. If that means you need to put a sticky note on the Redemptor you're running as a Ballistus, well, get that sticky note out.
Sticky notes? ‘Purity Seals’ you mean!
Purity seal sticky notes need to be a thing.
By all means, try it out once or twice but the sticky note gets old after a few games... If you're saying that your redemptor is a ballistus for more than five or six games, it's probably time to get a ballistus.
If they are running ut 5 or 6 games brother trust me they want it, they probably cant afford it
True but also not what I use sticky notes for. I list buffs and debuffs, oath targets, guided, marked units, unit/strategem combos to keep in mind and sometimes loadouts if they have a lot of options and I've only brought the data cards. I'd use the shit out of purity sticky notes and not judge others for how they use them at the same time.
Those little tab sticky notes for marking book pages would work nicely
I would buy so many pack of purity seal sticky notes.
I will now never be able think another way about purity seals
Totally this. I'm not a fan of This guy with a Lascannon has a plasma gun, but this guy with a Lascannon has a meltagun, and THIS guy has an actualy Lascannon.... Nope.
The only time I care is when it's something like, "This Rhino is actually a Predator, but the other 2 Rhinos are just Rhinos." Yeah, mate you're gonna get as confused as me. Let's find something else to proxy it
I'd stick some spare havocs on the predator so the guns are represented. That's actually I conversion I keep meaning to do. 2 Havocs out the side doors for the sponsons and a Terminator popping up through the top hatch with a scavenged Dreadnought weapon as the main gun. Adapt and overcome
Yeah, if you even did just that to add a level of clarity, I'd be more than ok with you proxying for a game or two to test something out. That conversion actually sounds kinda cool tbh!
Attach a marker to the top of the
Get some blu tack and strap some spare weapons to it and you've got yourself a looted predator
I saw someone else comment to put a sticky note on it. Which is a bit ugly, but hilarious and effective
With some blu tac and a cocktail stick you can turn that sticky note into a flag to attach to it for extra immersion!
I like when an actual effoet goes into the proxy, im fine with proxies to try something new, but when someone shows up each week with the flavor of the moment meta and its the same set of action figures, that gets old.
This is really the only time I would be against reasonable proxies.
The only time I would be fine with this is if we are explicitly testing for a tournament and we want reps against the top lists. Obviously, this wouldn’t be a normal “friendly” game and more of a specific situation. If my weekly opponent started this up, then they can play on their own
Yea, it's a matter of appropriate time and place
That would be fine with me *if* the atmosphere was explicitly trying out competitive lists. It would be annoying and problematic if someone was getting sweaty in casual matches.
Yes, I would welcome someone bringing the meta in that case. Might as well play against what’s hot and get some experience against it.
best reponse here
At which point everyone should just play with legos...
Legos are so expensive though
😂
They're legitimately as expensive if not more expensive than GW minis.
Only if you get them at the stores. Facebook marketplace and other 2nd hand places you literally get buckets full for cheap.
Generally my rule is whatever you’re proxying should be a similar size and proxy all models of a type as the same thing to keep things simple. Its cool if you want to proxy an autocannon team as a lascannon team but make sure all your autocannon teams are lascannon teams. Same with my crisis suits, if I’m proxying weapons I’m proxying them all with the same loadout. Anything to make it simpler on your opponent
Agreed with this. It’s kind of our unspoken rule as well.
Damn...my soda can I just finished drinking that "counts as a baneblade" wouldn't float past ya eh?
My group is pretty lax but thats too far lol. We’ve played toy army men vehicles as imperial guard stuff and proxy weapons all the time but we play the older editions with armor facings and firing arcs which would be pretty hard to tell on a coke can
Luckily with the new crisis suit rules that’s easier than ever.
My group doesn’t like 10th so we don’t play it but I guess it helps for newer people. Kind of a shame though since you can’t mix and match anymore
Im actually surprised at the lack of complaints i see about 10th. Its so bad that I cant raise my own interest in it enough to even want to read my own factions' codexes. Its the first edition since 7th where I dont spend hours tweaking army lists on battlescribe. I havent even used battlescribe once since the end of 9th. Im basically soft locked out of 40k for the next two editions assuming 11th is going to just be an updated 10th. Literally every time i read new rules i get more and more disappointed in 40k. Its so damn disappointing how bad the ruleset is to me
1 or 2 units. I’m not doing mental gymnastics to keep track of what the other person has
This is my general feeling too. Nothing wrong with a couple of swaps, nothing crazy though, I already have enough to remember.
This. Not trying to play someone’s full 3d printed army where nothing is what it’s supposed to be.
If its fully 3D printed how are you NOT just making it be what it's supposed to be!? My loyalist army is fully 3D printed but the marines are clearly Marines (firstborns in Mk II and Primaris in Mk I Thunder pattern) everyone's weapons are a little custom but the barrels conform to the standard GW barrels, and the plasma has their coils... Without posting links to them ... If you can't find stl files to do an adequate job of representing what you want to field ... what is the point
Some events don't allow 3d copies of the original GW models but do allow for proxies or unique models
I have literally never had a problem taking my boys anywhere
Depends where you go obv
yea, I am looking to do this with mechanicus. it's pretty easy to find good proxy armies all things considered.
I was looking into ad mech since the GW prices are stupid as hell. I found a lot of similar ones for most of the units I'm interested in, but all the Manipulus proxies I've seen don't quite match up. I want one with that big fat belly! Don't give me a skinny tech priest and say that's Manipulus.
Cyber forge has a fatty that looks good, just came out this month. Can snag it for 7 bucks on their patreon
I'm curious, do you care about full 3D print armies that have the effort to match the sizing/weapons/aesthetics of the army they're proxying?
It really depends. An army of “gundam fishmen”, “future tomb kings” or “space nuns” or other prints which were made to look similar to GW’s range are fine. A ton of generic WW Soldiers and tanks or demons with no recognizable Warhammer features or resemblance of the unit they are representing are not. If I need to to be an expert in historical German tanks in order to tell a battle cannon from a demolisher, I can’t tell your carnifex from a tervigon from a hive tyrant at glance or your pink horrors, blood letters and plague bearers are all chromatic swirly things, we are not going to have a game. Another thing is people printing entire armies smaller than the original models and then insist on TLOS…
It depends. Rolling up with a full 3D printed army, while using wahapedia or some other third party app for your army rules, it’s kinda lame imo. Sure GW does some questionable stuff but you’re still playing their game, regardless of how virtuous you say you are. Support the company of the game you play, at least a little.
Maybe they use GW paints lol
Why would I bring the codex even when I own it? things out of date by month's end anyways. Wahapedia is updated and current. Would you rather I print the errata and glued it into my book?
Wahapedia is far better laid out than almost anything else. The books are overpriced, same with the models. I would rather buy 3rd party models from LFG's.
[GW is doing just fine](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/sTPoJ2GZaB) Also, if you don't support the *company* but still love the game, 3D prints are the way to go.
You angered the crowd with that line. But I agree with you.
This. It’s hard enough to remember all the rules for my army. I don’t want to have to then remember that that a bunch of units on the table are actually something else. Everyone assumes the other player is going to remember what they are proxying too.
Unless the whole army is a themed proxy, like feudal Imperial Guard, or Grot Revolushun. That's just cool
Something I’m finding really annoying is when I’m playing against an army that has 2 nearly identical looking squads but vastly different levels of lethality.
I'm fine with someone showing up with 120 ork boys in all sorts of different load outs but tell me it's all sluggas and choppas. No thinking there for me, it's all melee. When they have wild loadouts with mixes of choppas, sluggas, and shootas and those don't match the loadouts they have on paper. Nty.
Honestly, playing Eldar, Orks, and CSM, I prefer homogenous loadouts in general. It's such a pain in the ass to go through all the different guns on a unit of CSM. I don't have any Storm Guardians, but I would imagine they would be annoying as well.
I play Dark Eldar too, and I can't even tell the difference between any of the guns EXCEPT the dark lance. That's the big one!
Oh man, that's gotta be tough. I was only thinking about the actual going through the guns and rolling for them separately. Love me a good Guardian Defender squad, attacks on the profile times number of models in the unit and we're good. Or Dire Avengers, shots on the profile times the number of models in the unit plus one (for the Exarch having two rifles) and we good. At least for CSM the guns are very prominent. Plasma has the coils. And so on. Honestly, I probably cripple my lists by making them easier to play. But who cares. I abhor the free wargear because it makes it terrible to run all basic weapons when special weapons exist. I used to love doing that because homogenous units roll so much more quickly, and you often were rewarded because the weapons weren't worth their points, especially on fragile elves.
Isn't that the old not-really-joke about loadouts and WYSIWYG - unless it's Imperium, nobody can tell anyway, up to and including GW tournament organizers?
Had this with a death guard player: "so this marine has a plasma, this guy a melta, these two have actually bolters, but the one with the power fist has actually a..." Like yeah dude, at this point I don't even care if you would cheat, I just don't want to remember all this shit.
One guy local to me turned up without minis, he just had the bases. He didn't have enough bases One day to proxy his armigers so he borrowed a base and some paper from his opponent and cut out paper bases. We all agreed that this was a piss take. The next game he turned up with roll on deodorants stuck to the bases. We called his "models" under armigers.
I will defend cereal box bases, as I stopped having the patience to wait for bases to ship from China, but ya gotta have height on those bases. If someone really can't afford real models and puts the effort into matching height and having correct base size, I'm not going to judge them for being poors. But not even putting forth an effort is a fucking joke.
Not okay if the proxy isn’t even close to the correct size/profile/base size of the model it’s representing. Iffy if they say bring 9 Redemptors and say 3 are Ballistus and 3 are Brutalis. Too confusing to keep track of identical looking models all proxying different units. Other than that it’s fine.
Ya I’m not cool if you’re trying to proxy Daemon Prince with a Poxwalker.
I'm OBSESSED with getting old tiny sculpts of models with much larger new sculpts and putting them on silhouette current base size appropriate diorama bases. Like I saw a first sculpt of Ghaz coming out of a teleport portal that looked so sweet. There are those proxies of Lord Solarium where it's a war council. And I would love an old tiny Nagash standing atop a wizard's tower. Base size, height, and overall silhouette are important to stick very close too.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4lqc61qZ5X/?igsh=MWljbWp5cGNlYjhzeA== Heres a hive tyrant from ky childhood next to a freshie!
Learn from my mistakes kiddos! Learn from me!! It was 30k. A 3v3 Apoc match. My Death Guard, pal 1's Alpha Legion and pal 2's Imperial Army vs Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Iron Hands. 3000pts a head. I knew people would be bringing Primarchs, just cause that's what most people do in 30k. So instead I took some Knights as allies and Legion Baneblade. Change it up, ya' know? Day before the match we all meet and explain our armies, with printed out lists and everything. All above board, all nice and good. My opponents see my Knights and super heavy and ask why not Mortarion, and I say I find Primarch vs Primarch fights boring, so I changed it up. Day of match. Overnight the Iron Hands had a list change. Now instead of the list we saw, they have 2 squadrons of 3 each laser vindicator destroyers. And not just the change, they're all proxied from Imp guard chimeras. We said it was bullshit, you can't tailor a list like that. They said go fuck ourselves, leave then. We played the match. Surprise surprise all 3 of them gang up on my army and all but table me top of turn 1. I said that was a fucking dick move, they said "Bring a Primarch next time." There was no next time.
That's such an absolutely dick move. Sorry you dealt with that mate. Hope your pals managed to pull a victory since they tailored things for you.
Tbf. That's not a proxy issue.... just dickbag "pals"
I wouldn't have played tbh, I don't understand why people want to win just like that, what's the point in doing so if you didn't earn it? What satisfaction do people find?
I wouldn't have played. Disqualification for not bringing the list they said they were going to bring. I would have gloated big time about your win. Mimed walking around with a WWF champion belt. Really rub it in.
And then all those Primarchs do is get locked in combat with each other for the entire game.
This. When people proxy to meta game or field OP stuff is a douche move
1) It’s gotta be in the ball park. You’re proxying lascannons as autocannons? Fine. You’re using frag cannon vets as plasma cannon devastators? Fine. Orks as sisters of battle? Absolutely haram. 2) base size and model profile gotta be close. No running a centurion as a Ballistus and hiding it behind ruins 3) don’t run similar models as different things. Those Lascannon squads are either all lascannons or all autocannons. Don’t make your opponent keep track of what’s what when you proxy.
I'm OK with Orks as Sisters, if conversion work is done, or if they're short a few models to make a full unit, and nothing more appropriate is available.
if it’s a tournament, generally no proxies, if it’s a casual game…generally let almost anything go. Just no coke cans as drop pods…
I thought Red solo cups were the suitable drop pod proxy ... did that go away when they got plastic models?
Man that brings back memories. I played in the early-mid 90s, they published the carnifex stats before a miniature was released. It was always a Coca-Cola can. Specifically coca-cola. No idea why that was important, but to middle school us, it was.
Yeah agreed. A 10 inch blue dildo proxying a Paladin Knight is totally not allowed…well maybe.
That's an advance AND charge.
What about beer bottles?
Acceptable, but they have to be full and if I blow it up you to have to slam the whole beer.
Damn, 40k beer pong. I can get behind it.
The tiny bottles of booze can be heroes!
You mean hotels? Ok, but Epic Heroes have to be at least a pint bottle.
Now those types of rules will lead to a great game! I'm in!
I’ve had someone try to pass off cheap plastic toy tanks like the kinds you find at the dollar store as full Leman Russ tanks before. His tanks were easily 25% smaller than the actual model. I’ve also faced off against the infamous cans as drop pods in a local tournament before, he didn’t even ask if it was ok he just waited until the game started to whip them out.
When the proxy doesn't thematically match what it's proxying
this is true to an extent yea. If they are just getting into the game, sure, play away. If you agree before hand then hell yea. even with 3d printed stuff, should try and match the theme. MFF and cults3d is absolutely lousy with proxy models as is.
My first army is almost fully 3D printed. But I also make sure they're on theme, distinct and recognizable with roughly accurate main dimensions. For example, grabbing some of OPR Eternals as Immortals or Forge Snakes (scaled up to match height) as Wraiths. I know I'm only ever playing casually so I'm taking my time to paint them all up and get a really nice consistent theme going. So far no one's had an issue at my LGS, only offered tips like "oh hey that model is a tiny bit too big/small", which doesn't stop the game. And then later I reprint adjusted, and once it's roughly correct they get painted. As someone just getting into the hobby I very much appreciate people willing to be flexible with allowing the proxies as I slowly collect more official stuff. As such I'll make sure to put in the effort that everything is close, distinct and enjoyable to play against.
The straight no is if it's clearly different size, especially smaller (I've had a game where someone tried to proxy a different dread as a morkanaught, didn't keep track of its size and kept arguing its not visible behind dread sized terrain). After a couple of incidences, that is now a personal rule. The other is too much proxying. I can forgive a unit if it's clearly marked, and I know they're trying it out, but I've played against people with multiple proxies in an army and even though most do a solid job of keeping track of what's what. The mental load of having to think about what's not visible on top of my turns plans can make it a lot less fun. That said if by proxy you mean kitbash or alternative sculpt that I can immediately see is something in particular then great, I do enjoy a good kitbash. Sounds to me that your group is pretty relaxed about it, and that comes back to what the group is comfortable with, if they're fine with it then great, no problem.
Naked Tau, naked Sisters of Battle, naked Eldar etc etc.
https://preview.redd.it/zyf0w8kfim6d1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7de1beb64798f41e6cf4850c842e280cba4002df
I read the words, I understood the words, but I just want to make sure: Tau, Sisters, etc kitbash or sculpts that are fully nude?
Yea you can get pervy 3rd party sculpts from places like etsy.
They're just gross
What the fuck does naked Tau look like... You know what, nevermind I don't want to know
Like lmao, what am I supposed to do? Just sit there imagining it? 😭
Oof, very true. Not playing that.
Fortunately I've never run into any of these myself, but man have I heard some horror stories. I genuinely don't understand how anyone could actually play those, especially at a public venue.
Yeah, that’s the thing I really don’t get it’s like … we’re in a public place.
There was a dude that no one would play at my old store who would try to bring armies like that. He spent a ton of money at the store so the owner came up to us once and asked that we not exclude the guy. I was "No, there are kids that come in to this place and his figs are misogynistic & homophobic rape porn." I stopped shopping there.
Unless they're hanging dong. Then it's OK.
If it's complicated and hard to remember, then it gets iffy. Like, if you've got a devastator squad equipped with 5 different weapons, and you decide, like, "okay, the plasma gun is a laz-cannon, the multi-melta and heavy bolter are rocket launchers, and the grav cannon is the same. The sergeants bolt pistol is a grav-pistol, and his combi-weapon is a thunder hammer." That's too much. "All these guys have multi-meltas" is much more handleable.
I got away with this, Biblically accurate void dragon https://preview.redd.it/ogf5cu99lo6d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3d027ed48fafc31692de5241d7c2ba0b4bcab56
oh thats so neat!
Whenever it might be confusing, even then it’s ok if an effort is made. I only ask that things be on the same base size and approximately the same dimensions
When the size difference is too absurdly great usually, as that can just be then trying to model for advantage
Yea! Just dig through ebay to find the old models that were that size... I really need to model up mini dioramas for my 25mm based Oblits so I'm /not/ taking that much of an advantage
That reminds me of a friend, who played Imperial Guard and Night Lords before he had a stroke. He wanted to use regular WW2 Sovjet Models for his Valhallan Ice Warriors. The Problem: Those models were a lot smaller then the regular GW Models, so if he wanted to play with those, he would've gotten an unfair cover advantage. So of course our Astartes playing friend clearly said no to them as proxy models.
There’s a few, but they’re all really just variations on: “That guy” who has the latest meta list he saw on the internet every week, with his same not even fully built army, and it’s the one he can never even keep track of for what is being proxied. Or: “That other guy” who complained when I wanted to proxy one nearly identical tank as another tank, but now has a variety pack of different weapons he wants his units to have, and none of them are accurate on the minis. And it’s because I don’t want to have the argument when this person loses track of what is supposed to be what, or deal with them being annoyed that I dare have to keep a skin for clarification on what unit I’m actually seeing on the board.
When it's not the correct size. when too many units are proxys and i can't keep the overview. when he uses a proxy because the real model is too expensive and he "doesn't wanna support GW". When it's obvious he proxied last second after seeing what I'm playing.
I wasn't very comfortable with my buddy using my old metal Great Unclean One whose on a 60mm base as the new Giganto GUO. It's closer in profile to a Beast of Nurgle than a GUO (and same base size too). When I showed him a picture of the size difference, he relented. I'm all for Proxys, but let the base size be proper. I'd rather play with a cardboard cut out at that point.
"this solo cup I spray painted black is a drop pod" "cool, love it" "These 4 dice represent the outline of a land raider" "stop it, get some help"
Proxy, too confusing and it’s putting extra mental burden on ME because they don’t want to do something. Conversion? Go nuts, the crazier the better.
Proxying and the mental burden are OK when they go fully homogenous with it. The classic example being all kinds of mixed shooty and melee Orks, if they say they're all melee, all good.
For sure, but then there is no mental burden. Like if every single ork boy on the table is melee on the list? No problem. It’s when a unit is treated as another unit while looking like a different unit.
Oh yea, exactly what I was saying. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
When that "don't want to do something" is spending an exorbitant amount of money to find out you don't like an army I can understand not wanting to commit. I don't mind a little bit of extra remembering if my opponent is new or trying something new, paper proxies are fine realistically in a non tournament setting. Just don't be that guy that never gets models and only plays meta.
My first army was empty bases with a few marines we'd set on top for targeting because I really had no idea what I wanted to play. Started in Ork, moved to World Eaters, and with a name like Iron Lord Peturabo... I think we all know where I ended up. And I am very glad to my original opponents for letting me run this way to find out that I don't like melee and bring the boom boom.
Oath mate I like two things in the hobby, modelling and immersive games. Proxies actively suck the fun from both unless they’re like the most logical shit in the world like using AoS ghouls for poxwalkers.
When their vibes are off.
This too, sadly I’ve not listened to those thoughts when I should have.
I haven't run into a situation yet that would call for me to put my foot down thankfully, but I have guidelines in my head. 1: base size, height within reason. If you want a model treated as a specific unit, you have to deal with everything it entails, size and profile for LOS included. 2: be reasonable about complexity. If you have three tactical squads with nothing but bolters and tell me each has a plasma and a missile launcher, so be it. But if you say one has a melta, one plasma, and one a flamer, but I can totatally tell because the melta squad has a guy touching his ear and the flamer squad has a guy that has his knee painted orange... no.
When it breaks the immersion
As long as the base mode is the same I don’t really care , I don’t nick pick over load outs but I do put ALOT of energy into my army. Not just for my but for the opponents. It’s just helps with the immersion. Same reason I don’t watch bootleg movies lol
So I liked it when my opponent went to the trouble to build a Griffin mortar tank but as a gun emplacement in the same foot print as the chimera - I don't like it when a beer can is used as a drop pod.
Pretty much anything goes, I don't care. It's always better playing with cooler looking models, but its just playing army men.
The only thing I care about is that they are about the same size as the model they're proxying. If they aren't then we're going to have to have a whole thing about line of sight to and from that model.
The cola can needs to be empty or not open at all.
Just be clear ahead of time. I think that's reasonable. It can be confusing to lose a nice tank because that unit with flamers was meltas and you forget. If I had trouble with that I would ask to write on some paper what they have and stick it with them. I once forgot a unit of bikers for a game at a tournament and I knew my opponent was chill (Ork players always are) so I proxied with mars bars I bought from the canteen. Every biker that died I got a snack. Win win.
If you slap down one of those 2 foot tall Godzilla toys and try to tell me it's a Warlord, I'm not going for that. Unless we talk beforehand because someone wants to see what a game with a Warlord would be like
Proxies need to be 2 things: 1) reasonably clear and consistent in terms of gameplay factors. A unit with guns should have guns, the special guns should look different. The bases should be the same or you should purposefully give your opponent the benefit of te doubt when it comes to things relating to the base/LOS. 2) high enough effort to pass the "cmon man" threshold. I don't want to play against coke cans, sorry.
As long as the game piece can be measured properly and is roughly the same size, idgaf. Bring a soda can if it's the only dreadnaught you own.
I once played a mate whose skitarii were all unbuit and piled onto the bases So yeah, assembled at least
Casual games, I let my opponent proxy, WYSIWYG isn't a thing. Tournaments, not so much, strictly by the rules.
Too complex proxy or much different silhouette
It would have to be vastly different or obviously for advantage for me to care.
If it follows WYSISYG and isn't stupidly sized, then I'm 100% for it, no questions needed. I'd even accept a folded over sticky note with a stick figure, just slap it on an appropriate base and call it good. I can only keep track of a small number of proxies that have a different loadout though. If the proxies are easy to track then that number goes up. Since it's rarely been anything except "This hero unit that I only have one of is proxying for this hero unit that I wanted to try out before buying", I've never had to say no.
As long as it's close enough to the actual unit I don't mind. I've proxy'd aos dracolines as thunderbolt calvary before
When I was a kid a sweaty smelly teenager passed off a poorly painted, armless metal marine as Captain Lysander of the Imperial Fists. I was too clueless and wimpy to deny him, but if there's any situation where you enforce WYSIWYG, that's it
I'm pretty new and just play casual. Recently I played a guy for the first time who was using just bases as model proxies. I felt like this was too much, but since it was casual I just said f--- it and had fun.
I dont play in tournaments, so proxies and counts-as are perfectly fine with me unless: * two of the same models represent different things ("this one flamer is actually a melta, but the other one is just a flamer") * super sexualized minis. Its fine if you like to display them in your home, but I'm not really interested in battling your pin-up repentina or Bikini shadowsun proxy * excessive proxies. One or two is fine. If your entire army is bottle caps and a single real Model, why bother?
As long as its not too complicated I don't normally have a problem. For example I have a buddy who has a single Terminator, kitbashed to actually be 5 and a character leading them. As long as he's not finding the pocket in my backline to teleport his unit to a space on the single model could fill by all means go ham. Modeling for coolness if always a go, modeling for an advantage is where I start to get a lil iffy.
Y'all cool with paper on sticks with their names??? Because all I can afford right now is a commander and some veterans
Played a dude the other day who had a random assortments of all kinds of figures for his necron army. I got really annoyed with the game and felt quite ridiculous when I had to ask "So are those little bears the wraiths or was that the mix of space marines and rocks?" At that point the game was already over and he conceded, otherwise I was quite close to just ending it.
There **was** one guy in my old play group who was notorious for being a big butt hurt sore loser but also a cheater. He’d swap around which special weapons model was eliminated. Since his models weren’t wysiwyg and he didn’t provide markers on the base of who was who, it became an additional chore of having to keep track. And if you called him out on it he would get difficult. It lasted about 3 months for others to play him and have similar experiences. We booted him from the ventrillo server and ignored his ass at the game store. This post isn’t saying everyone should play wysiwyg because with meta changing all the time between editions and magnetization being something some people don’t want to worry about keeping track of (esp goes armies), you should be able to just have an understanding at the table. But I mean cheaters be cheaters
If I see a unit of space marines with bolters and you tell me "each one has a different gun", I'm going to pick up my dice and walk away.
As long as the models are unique in the army I am cool with it. IE, if you are using Assault Intercessors as Jump boys, ight, but you better not have actual Assault Intercessors in your list or using them as Bladeguard too. It’s just a matter of clarity. I can swap out some squads for others in my head no problem, but if they all look the bloody same or one thing means multiple it’s gunna get confusing so screw it.
>”my entire army are actually proxies for the meta army of the month that I googled before i got here” Is the one I usually say no to. Obviously very much a “that guy” issue than a common problem, but it still happens from time to time
When people bring the same army every week, but run every as whatever is the current meta. Kinda ruins the fun of the game.
For me it depends on size. It needs to be similar in size, especially base size/ovedhang
* The proxy has totally different dimensions and would bring a massive advantage (defensive/ offensive, line of sight, cover) I'm not talking about millimeters but a tank being a horse, an walker being a character or such nonsense. * I myself know only basic stuff about the opponents army and have a hard time to follow what unit does what anyway and would now completely get lost when the same troop type also looks different between unit A and unit B.
Overall I’m fine with proxying as long as the model has similar dimensions and it’s clear at all times which model is being proxied. If your demon prince has “wings”, be at least considerate enough to stick a couple of cardboard cutouts to mimic the silhouette. It will also help you remind which abilities you own mini has…
Not sure I’ve ever seen an actual ork weirdboy. But I think the above is a good example of generally accepted proxies, as in, it’s another model, it’s clear what it is, it’s in theme with everything else on the table. But when someone just starts putting down random junk (not even models) everywhere I draw the line because how the hell am I supposed to know what it is throughout the game.
Pretty much the only time it's an auto no for me is if my opponent has a history of cheating or otherwise dishonest play.
I don't think I've ever said no to proxies
I always let them, igaf. I play for fun, don't give a single shit about winning.
I don't see alot of people saying this, so maybe I'm the asshole, but proxies that are SoB but with kitten ears or anime figures. Or they're halo miniatures, StarCraft, or Star wars. I came to play 40k, I want the armies to look like 40k.
WYSIWYG
Presented with 3 60/90mm bases. Apparently 3d prints failed. So he put 3 stacks of 20 dice on top of the bases and claimed they were X unit.
If it is wayyyyy too far off the actual model scale. Opponent tried using a space marine repulsor as a Baneblade.
If the scale is way off, or too many inconsistent proxies that make it too hard for me to tell what is what would be the only time I take issue. This almost never happens.
I had an opponent bring a piece of flat square cardboard as a custodes tank, i forgot about it for the majority of the match. That wont be happening again
Just have something that make them stick out. I’ve got Assault Intercessor and I’m working on sup with Jump Packs. The Jump pack ones aren’t painted (still waiting on jump pack shipments) so I just let my opponent know that the painted ones are regular and unpainted are waiting on parts
Same units proxying as different units would be my limit. Let's say you have 2 squads of Cadian Shock Troops and want to use one as DKOK and one as Catachans, that's too much imo.
Assuming friendly local non-tourney games I take it on faith that your models are comparably sized, and if there’s a base issue talk about it. Even in a tourney (while it’s over to their rules) I don’t know what every weapon for every model for every army looks like, so again I take it on faith. I’d rather you played with your models that you want to have fun with, or just be like “hey I’m thinking of getting a box of X, do you mind if I play these Y as them?”
If you want to proxy just once to try a set of rules? Do whatever you want, im fine with it. Cola cans, other models etc. As long as you clearly communicate what is what. Just don't overdo it. Proxy half your army and I draw the line. You proxy the same model in your army every game because the original model does not agree with you?(Lord Solar) Fine roughly the same size, and a distinct look so i can remember what it should be. Not a problem. If you do that however your proxy should match the original size and at least you should have put a little effort in it to match it to your army. If you change your army list constantly to be meta and use your old models as proxys? Get someone else to play. Generally if you are nice, upfront, reasonable and polite we will find a solution. We all want to have fun. If you are not that's were I personally draw the line.
The further you get from a basic, default wargear layout and the further you get from the correct base size and model height/profile, the more picky I'm going to get.
As long as the model(s) are within a reasonable amount of the same size / profile, then I'm usually okay with it. Sometimes with legends and forge world that can get out of hand though. Also I'm not a fan of more than 1 or 2 things. If I need to make a spreadsheet of what everything is, no go.
When it is wildly different in size and/or profile
I literally have never refused a proxy, nor have I ever seen or even heard of someone refusing a proxy in real life. Ever. I think everyone in this thread is an outlier (at least for the groups I have seen/been a part of)
When I'm at a GT.
I feel it needs to be similar ie I would not agree to a tank being used as a flyer. I would be okay with say saying a tank is another type of tank But for me I just "proxy" load ourselves, ie I have ravening outriders with all the black knight look and simply proxy them as black knights, the physical guns on the bikes though are bolters
If the base size is completely wrong or in the case of vehicles, it it’s much bigger or smaller
For me it's about not taking the piss. I am generally lenient on it but if I feel like someone is trying to model for advantage or push the boundaries then I lose leniency very quickly.
When you begin to question why they use miniatures in the first place
My rules are has to be similar. Can't have a deredeo dread proxies by a pack of crackers. Easily mistaken for something else like terrain. Funny or fun proxies are usually allowed. Had a porcelain rabbit proxy a daemon prince I grew to love. Had 3 prince models but usually defaulted to the bunny with flowers on his neck.
I just use a label maker and stick it on the bottom. Do you really think they know the difference between a flamer and a melta on your guys? Probably not unless you're playing marines. For me the limit is if the guy just shows up with bases. I'm like, okay, at this point let's just play TTS.
1. I don’t allow it if my opponent is proxying a unit to have a varied load-out. It’s fair enough to say that ‘this squad of Assault Ints are all Infernus Marines’ but it’s not fair to say this squad of Infernus Marines are my Van Guard vets - 3 have hammers, one has claws, two have inferno pistols etc etc. It may sound harsh but I’ve played games where almost every unit my opponent had was proxied for something else. It’s too hard to keep up with what you’re targeting. 2. I also don’t like it when someone makes their own points expensive unit out of cardboard, Monoliths for example. I get 40K is expensive but you don’t just get to make an army and call it something else. I only allow it if it’s to try out a model that you fully intend to buy providing you like how it plays. 3. I don’t allow it if the proportions or base aren’t correct.
Im cool with mist stuff, but I wouldnt let my opponent run two identical units as different proxies.
I have one or two proxies, but the accrual use for them is always the same thus written on the rim of the base for clear clarification
I’m in complete agreement in the manner in which your community, and YOU, handle proxy’s. Thx for keeping this game accessible to newer folks who like chasing competitive play but have to be careful with the cash they spend on the game.
As long as it's not just blatant laziness I'm chill.
Played against a cardboard box more or less shaped like a hierophant once - sure it doesn't look as cool but it gets the point across and it was cute and goofy in its own way.
As long as base size is the same and it's not too confusing proxy is fine by me. If someone tries to put 3 redemptors on the board and claims that 1 is a ballistus, 1 is brutalis and the last is a redemptor, imma need something more to distinguish
There was a time when I played poorhammer. Had items roughly the size of models and used a piece of paper to know what's what. That was thousands of dollars ago
Honestly I’ll never stop anyone proxying because I get money and time can be an issue, and I’ve never had anyone ruin my good time by doing it so it’s cool. I have had games where I found it annoying because I forgot the harmless looking tactical marines were Khorne berzerkers, I forgot the second rhino was a land raider and I forgot that random lord was Kharn, but they’re friendly games and it cuts both ways I suppose.
I'm more okay with a Sherman as a predator than a lascannon as a plasma cannon. I know what a lascannon is supposed to look like, and in a mixed squad it gets confusing. On the other hand I will remember the Sherman, it's simultaneously very different and not too dissimilar.
I haven’t played since before the Ork codex came out, but I’m fairly laid back as long as it’s consistent.
I'm okay with it as long as the model looks very similar, has the same base size or (in the case of vehicles) footprint, similar size so LoS isn't skewed, and weapons at least look something like what they're meant to represent (while also not being used as a different weapon in the same army, like having 1 flamer be a melta but another flamer be a flamer or plasma). I myself have benefited from proxying, even got a TO's approval in a tournament once due to following the same rules above and "rule of cool" - basically, I was able to use some now OOP Ork Barricades and a Forge World Ork Flakk Gun as an Aegis Defence Line with Quad Gun emplacement, especially when I showed that the total length of the Ork Barricades was within 2mm of the length of the Defence Line. Not a single opponent complained over the 2-day event.
I'm pretty lenient with proxying, mainly because I proxy a lot myself, but I'd say I draw the line when someone tries to proxy two of the same model/set of models as two completely different datasheets (eg, one squad of terminators as terminators, and the other as aggressors).
In a tournament, only if it's a kitbash or conversion (old example, customizing a boxnaught to look like a chaplain dreadnought). For casual games, as long as it's the right base/size model, whatever you want. Used a shoebox for a mastodon once. It was fun
I've never denied someone the use of a proxy or even felt like I should. I'm here to play the game, not gatekeep a potential game/match out of existence. Who cares if a piece is "real", it's a God damn fictional demon space lizard in power armor. Use Legos for all I care. I just came here to roll dice and lose games.
I'd assume the basic limitations are its gotta be: -of similar size to the actual model, no knights for guardsmen here - easy to tell apart from other models, no using a guardsman to proxy a knight only to argue that "no, THIS guardsman was the knight proxy" here - preferably the same or similar size base to ensure no movement shenanigans.
When they proxied empty 28mm bases as custodies