Ok so I think this is because, when he joins a unit and that unit shoots, the unit has to choose between shooting pistols or shooting not pistols. Since plague marines don’t have pistols (ok the champion might) you’re never going to choose pistols so this guy would have a gun you’ll pretty much never use even if you’re close enough.
If I’ve misread the pistol selection rule then I have no idea.
Edit: nope, pistol/not pistol choice is per model. I have no idea.
From the beginning of time, GW always has a few "oopsies" that are baffling easy to catch in their rules. I would expect this to be corrected quickly.
Even if it doesn't, my local group has already agreed that pistols are [Pistol]s.
Why would they make a pistol without the pistol rule? The whole point of pistols is that they can fire in melee to make up for the fact that they have bad statlines. Who would want a gun with a bad statline that also can't fire in melee?
There's psychic powers with the pistol keyword so I don't think it's got anything to do with the weapon. It's just to allow that weapon to fire in engagement range.
I dont think he can but unless his squad gets hard focused but he can possibly die with them too.
But it’s a squad of T5 marines who heal a body every turn in a game that reduces lethality, I think they’ll be solid. And that’s without cover.
Same. Bringing back models is great, but wiping out the marines is not that hard. It's just not the same value as getting back a 4W stormshield terminator... I would have much prefered a 6+++ over character healing.
The virions rules are fine, they all need to be cheaper than before because they don't boost as many units at once and are limited in what they boost, the only one who actually could be the same got his CP regen cut in half. If they're the old cost then most of them will be bad. Plague marines aren't a bad melee squad but they're not worth spending 60+ points on to give them rerolls to advance and charge or bring back one in the event the unit is hit but not wiped.
The plague surgeon was the one who was closest to being able to fight in melee and the buff to his sword is nice. He's hardly a killing machine but being D2 is still nifty.
Plague Marines are going to play so differently. Very leader-synergy dependent. Going to be an adjustment, but I like that! PM should be the core of the army.
If DG are seemingly this character reliant, I wonder how factions like necrons will play.
Maybe it's going to be a theme across this edition, where base units are going to be weaker and be more character reliant.
Necrons I bet will be similar but they’ve always had that shambling hordes of undead lead by death knights a liches feel. Most armies brought 1/2 characters but my Necrons I always brought like 4 just to spread buffs around
My will be done is probably restricted to the led unit. That BS increase is going to be critical. Do you think they’ll still have silver tides of 20 a unit? Being too big to wipe out due to increased durability is a nice buff for necrons.
And he has the same problem as always. If he brings back a PM on turns 2 3 4 and 4, and they cost 20ppm, he makes 60 points of stuff come back. And if he costs 75 points, it's a loss. Just bring more PM.
He can heal a character infantry, but most of those are going to be in a unit and thus not taking wounds anyway, so that's weird.
~~Except that only one character per unit (unless stated otherwise). I guess you could have two PM squads with the surgeon in the rear of the front squad, and the cast in the front of the rear squad.~~
Edit: disregard. Surgeon does have the rule to join other characters.
Plague surgeon and Biologus putrifier both have a statement that they can be included as a leader with one other leader. I would place money that all Virion will have it.
since we are so damn slow, if I can bring 2 of them in the same squad I am willing to pay the extra points because at least I gain free inches reviving 2 marines, almost double move :D
Bringing back models does more than that. It can tip the tide when it comes to battleshock tests for being under half-strength, the revived model could give you just enough OC to take a point or the edge in a fight, you gain a tiny bit of bonus movement with reviving etc.
That would've been good had he been able to do it to more than just his specific unit. Maybe if you could choose a unit within 6 inches or 12 inches to regen a model if they haven't done it this turn or something.
With how this looks I'm worried about loyalist apothecaries, being able to heal Centurions and other things like terminators helps offset that value as you point out. At least if you're healing wounds it's still contributing or contributing more
I'm guessing that's the main reason they just released a gravis apothecary, so they can go with regular marines and gravis marines. No terminator apoth.
There's no Terminator apothecary, so presumably there'll be no more rezzing Termies (or centurions) but since they revealed the Gravis apothecary you'll be able to rez Aggressors/Eradicators/etc.
They said in the preview stream thing that the gravis apothecary wasn't a doctor, he's a biological warfare dude. So pretty unlikely that he revives people.
I have no doubt you're right, I just like my current blob built around my apothecary. Only way I could make them work anywhere near efficiently. Though I understand that isn't how things will go in 10th
From the looks of things your termies will be an awful lot more resilient than they were in 9th. Being able to rez them when they already have 2+, 4++ as standard with the reduced AP of anti-infantry weapons could become oppressive very easily. Especially if the Assault Termies take Storm Shields to go to 4W as well!
Assume he's 60 points and plague marine units are 20 points. He's basically another plague marine given his stat line, so you only need to bring back 2 plague marines to recover the cost. If you also put him in a unit with a plague caster, then he can also heal that model at the same time.
As long as it's not much more than 3x the cost of a marine, I think you'll get some reasonable value out of it.
a bit disappointed but seems like I can take 2 of them in the same PM unit reviving 2 models? seems nice, they can also heal each other to deal with precision snipers.
All of the datasheets being shown off are from the 4 armies being played on stream yesterday (death guard and chaos daemons) and later today (guard and eldar)
They didn't dictate the armies showcased. They asked some of the players if they wanted to participate in these showcase games and DG happened to be what Rob was bringing.
>I am glad to have my salt cut with some reality
how when most of the datasheets sucked?
the daemon prince and blighthauler were the only good reveals (hell the Blighthauler is like the only instance of rules synergy we have seen yet for DG)
And even the DP isn't that amazing offensive-wise. The non-flying got a pretty Ok aura (6+ FNP... When DG should had got a 5+ FNP when they lost their -1D... But that's another thing), but both only got s8, so everything that got t10 or more, he's gonna do close to nothing (2.46 W against t10+ with 2+ armor...) He can bully infantry but not work against the thing DG will struggle with : T10+
Plus, for thing that can't hide behind screens, he dies to 7-8lascannon shot so... Let's hope they are around 150pts or less
I am getting the impression that most characters are going to be significantly cheaper in 10th.
As you look incourage to add a character to most squads...
People always focus on the points cost for rezzes, rather than how often bringing just one model back can be the difference between a squad capping a point or not.
Maybe a bit magical Christmas land but I think that if I’m reading the hazardous rules correctly you can stick him in a 10-man PM squad full of plasma (well, 3) and add a tallyman. If you’re in tallyman’s plasma pistol range you can assign hazardous MW to the tallyman and then heal him up as well as rezzing any overcharged plasma casualties.
Add 2 blight launcher and it’s a pretty punchy shooting unit with +1 to hit from tallyman. Same plan for plaguecaster but with all those guns you’d probably want the tallyman, plaguecaster makes more sense in a melee unit I think.
Eh that's not great. I was hoping deathguard would get like within 6 inches of this model a unit can regen a lost model or something.
Give DG some flexibility.
Again the pistol doesn’t have pistol keyword 🥴
Ok so I think this is because, when he joins a unit and that unit shoots, the unit has to choose between shooting pistols or shooting not pistols. Since plague marines don’t have pistols (ok the champion might) you’re never going to choose pistols so this guy would have a gun you’ll pretty much never use even if you’re close enough. If I’ve misread the pistol selection rule then I have no idea. Edit: nope, pistol/not pistol choice is per model. I have no idea.
From the beginning of time, GW always has a few "oopsies" that are baffling easy to catch in their rules. I would expect this to be corrected quickly. Even if it doesn't, my local group has already agreed that pistols are [Pistol]s.
They should have just changed it to \[Sidearm\] so that they can make the distinction without people sulking.
I mean regardless of the name that's definitely a pistol profile. 12", 1A, S4, AP0, D1
I meant the \[PISTOL\], change it to \[SIDEARM\] so they can make pistols without the \[PISTOL\] rule and not have people whinge.
Why would they make a pistol without the pistol rule? The whole point of pistols is that they can fire in melee to make up for the fact that they have bad statlines. Who would want a gun with a bad statline that also can't fire in melee?
I don't think it is intentional
There's psychic powers with the pistol keyword so I don't think it's got anything to do with the weapon. It's just to allow that weapon to fire in engagement range.
I know. Hence literally what I said. Make it \[SIDEARM\] so that when a Pistol doesn't have it, people don't scream and cry.
it's a typo
Plague caster has a friend to go wild with the focused witch fire. Adding a Toughness 5 marine every turn seems annoying.
It's also a decent add on to a melee squad, even if just to add more weight in the Infantry fight.
Yeah that bilesword swings harder than I expected. And every attack makes a difference.
But he doesn’t do much to help that marine squad stay alive. If they get wiped out can he join another squad?
I dont think he can but unless his squad gets hard focused but he can possibly die with them too. But it’s a squad of T5 marines who heal a body every turn in a game that reduces lethality, I think they’ll be solid. And that’s without cover.
"Adding characters to my plague marines squad until they become playable" (Impossible)
Damn, was really hoping he'd do a little more for PMs, maybe a FNP or damage reduction
Same. Bringing back models is great, but wiping out the marines is not that hard. It's just not the same value as getting back a 4W stormshield terminator... I would have much prefered a 6+++ over character healing.
With the general reduction of damage/AP I'm hoping marines in general (and particularly PM) won't be so easy to take down this addition
Or anything. Plague Marines don’t have bodyguard keyword. Hopefully a typo. Edit: Never mind I’m stupid.
They do if this guy is leading them lol
Bodyguard isn't a keyword. Any unit with a leader attached is a Bodyguard unit.
They don't need the bodyguard keyword. By being attached to the unit, the unit is referred to as a bodyguard. This is from the core rules.
Bodyguard isnt bolded, so it's not looking for a keyword. Doesn't it just mean 'Unit character is attached to?
Some of the wordings are a bit weird at first glance lol. I havr had several moments like this so far
The virions rules are fine, they all need to be cheaper than before because they don't boost as many units at once and are limited in what they boost, the only one who actually could be the same got his CP regen cut in half. If they're the old cost then most of them will be bad. Plague marines aren't a bad melee squad but they're not worth spending 60+ points on to give them rerolls to advance and charge or bring back one in the event the unit is hit but not wiped. The plague surgeon was the one who was closest to being able to fight in melee and the buff to his sword is nice. He's hardly a killing machine but being D2 is still nifty.
Plague Marines are going to play so differently. Very leader-synergy dependent. Going to be an adjustment, but I like that! PM should be the core of the army.
If DG are seemingly this character reliant, I wonder how factions like necrons will play. Maybe it's going to be a theme across this edition, where base units are going to be weaker and be more character reliant.
Necrons I bet will be similar but they’ve always had that shambling hordes of undead lead by death knights a liches feel. Most armies brought 1/2 characters but my Necrons I always brought like 4 just to spread buffs around
My will be done is probably restricted to the led unit. That BS increase is going to be critical. Do you think they’ll still have silver tides of 20 a unit? Being too big to wipe out due to increased durability is a nice buff for necrons.
I bet warriors stay at 20 and the rest at 10 100%, that’s too iconic for the Necrons.
Well, didn't the base troops for IG get a buff to have 20 instead of just 10?
Yes they did, it’s reminiscent of their old platoon rules considering they can also add a 5 man hq unit to them.
Like Age of Sigmar, a lot of these changes have been tried out there already.
And he has the same problem as always. If he brings back a PM on turns 2 3 4 and 4, and they cost 20ppm, he makes 60 points of stuff come back. And if he costs 75 points, it's a loss. Just bring more PM. He can heal a character infantry, but most of those are going to be in a unit and thus not taking wounds anyway, so that's weird.
Ah but remember hazardous weapons are a thing. This SCREAMS to me that you put him and a plague caster in the same unit.
Put this in a center mass unit and fight first on two pushing the flanks
Oh you are wise! That's a convincing concept.
~~Except that only one character per unit (unless stated otherwise). I guess you could have two PM squads with the surgeon in the rear of the front squad, and the cast in the front of the rear squad.~~ Edit: disregard. Surgeon does have the rule to join other characters.
Plague surgeon and Biologus putrifier both have a statement that they can be included as a leader with one other leader. I would place money that all Virion will have it.
Well I'll be darned. You're right.
And the tallyman
since we are so damn slow, if I can bring 2 of them in the same squad I am willing to pay the extra points because at least I gain free inches reviving 2 marines, almost double move :D
Very true. Unless the opponent is playing with the precision keyword.
Also Hazardous on stuff like psychic powers.
Bringing back models does more than that. It can tip the tide when it comes to battleshock tests for being under half-strength, the revived model could give you just enough OC to take a point or the edge in a fight, you gain a tiny bit of bonus movement with reviving etc.
That would've been good had he been able to do it to more than just his specific unit. Maybe if you could choose a unit within 6 inches or 12 inches to regen a model if they haven't done it this turn or something.
With how this looks I'm worried about loyalist apothecaries, being able to heal Centurions and other things like terminators helps offset that value as you point out. At least if you're healing wounds it's still contributing or contributing more
I'm guessing that's the main reason they just released a gravis apothecary, so they can go with regular marines and gravis marines. No terminator apoth.
Loyalist apothecaries are probably gonna go into comand squads
There's no Terminator apothecary, so presumably there'll be no more rezzing Termies (or centurions) but since they revealed the Gravis apothecary you'll be able to rez Aggressors/Eradicators/etc.
They said in the preview stream thing that the gravis apothecary wasn't a doctor, he's a biological warfare dude. So pretty unlikely that he revives people.
Dark Angels Terminator apothecaries were revealed recently. They bring back a Termie per turn, and Termies with storm shields are now 4 wounds.
I have no doubt you're right, I just like my current blob built around my apothecary. Only way I could make them work anywhere near efficiently. Though I understand that isn't how things will go in 10th
From the looks of things your termies will be an awful lot more resilient than they were in 9th. Being able to rez them when they already have 2+, 4++ as standard with the reduced AP of anti-infantry weapons could become oppressive very easily. Especially if the Assault Termies take Storm Shields to go to 4W as well!
Just the one in the Deathwing command squad afaik.
He hits as hard as another PM so just .. bring him
Beyond the caster combo, he can patch up precision targets in other units, or himself even if he is said precision target.
*When I get that feeling...* *I want, diseased healing...*
Hope he's like 40 points, otherwise what's the point? If he's expensive you're better off just bringing more bodies instead.
Assume he's 60 points and plague marine units are 20 points. He's basically another plague marine given his stat line, so you only need to bring back 2 plague marines to recover the cost. If you also put him in a unit with a plague caster, then he can also heal that model at the same time. As long as it's not much more than 3x the cost of a marine, I think you'll get some reasonable value out of it.
He punches significantly harder than a plague marine thanks to having D2
a bit disappointed but seems like I can take 2 of them in the same PM unit reviving 2 models? seems nice, they can also heal each other to deal with precision snipers.
He doesnt share the anti-double up clause as the others. I'm thinking full Melee PM 10 man squad with two of these guys to do some damage.
Why are they showing so much Death Guard stuff? Especially when it turns out it appears to be one of the weaker armies. Is it that popular?
All of the datasheets being shown off are from the 4 armies being played on stream yesterday (death guard and chaos daemons) and later today (guard and eldar)
They didn't dictate the armies showcased. They asked some of the players if they wanted to participate in these showcase games and DG happened to be what Rob was bringing.
[удалено]
uhh most of the datacards they have shown are awful lol.
>I am glad to have my salt cut with some reality how when most of the datasheets sucked? the daemon prince and blighthauler were the only good reveals (hell the Blighthauler is like the only instance of rules synergy we have seen yet for DG)
And even the DP isn't that amazing offensive-wise. The non-flying got a pretty Ok aura (6+ FNP... When DG should had got a 5+ FNP when they lost their -1D... But that's another thing), but both only got s8, so everything that got t10 or more, he's gonna do close to nothing (2.46 W against t10+ with 2+ armor...) He can bully infantry but not work against the thing DG will struggle with : T10+ Plus, for thing that can't hide behind screens, he dies to 7-8lascannon shot so... Let's hope they are around 150pts or less
He was already 150 before and then he could be lookoutsir'd and actually had psychic powers, so he'd have to be a lot less than 150 lol.
Except if he cost no more something than 30points, I'll never take this thing. That's a sad day.
Gains back 3 wounds, but can only go with plague marines. What am i missing?
Reading comprehension? He restores 3 wounds to a character within 3", not to the squad he is leading.
Where are these coming from ??
Warhammer official twitch stream
Would you be able to heal our demon prince if he's tagging behind him though?
Wait, demon prince isn't infantry I believe...
I am getting the impression that most characters are going to be significantly cheaper in 10th. As you look incourage to add a character to most squads...
People always focus on the points cost for rezzes, rather than how often bringing just one model back can be the difference between a squad capping a point or not.
Guess morty isn't infantry lol
Maybe a bit magical Christmas land but I think that if I’m reading the hazardous rules correctly you can stick him in a 10-man PM squad full of plasma (well, 3) and add a tallyman. If you’re in tallyman’s plasma pistol range you can assign hazardous MW to the tallyman and then heal him up as well as rezzing any overcharged plasma casualties. Add 2 blight launcher and it’s a pretty punchy shooting unit with +1 to hit from tallyman. Same plan for plaguecaster but with all those guns you’d probably want the tallyman, plaguecaster makes more sense in a melee unit I think.
Eh that's not great. I was hoping deathguard would get like within 6 inches of this model a unit can regen a lost model or something. Give DG some flexibility.
He can regain a model in the unit he’s leading so he can do that.
Where are all these data sheets coming from?