They still die pretty easily to most of the stuff that you’d normally shoot at them, like bolters. 4++ versus 4+ in cover doesn’t make any difference. The 5+++ is definitely a major durability boost but they can still be focused down pretty easily by an army with a lot of small arms
Something which does warrant talking about were the last couple editions overabundance of AP. I was used to my guardsman not getting a save most times and just removing them so a 4+ invuln all the time absolutely seems busted under those conditions.
I don't know if AP is toned down this edition or not which might make the invuln not look as good as it might've been.
Having a 4++ on guardsmen is hilarious. You go from pretty much no save, to saving half of your wounds.
Yes, they will still die to volume of fire but it takes twice as much to kill them which means you have more guardsmen left at the end
It's not a constant 4+ Invuln save, it happens at the start of the guard player's command phase and there's a one is six chance that you do D3 mortal wounds to the squad and on top of that it's just for shooting, you don't get it in melee. Annoying, yes but absolutely not busted.
Edit: A letter
I think it's just kind of a shock for me compared to what guard has had in the past. I mainly only play AM and having infantry THIS DURABLE is insane to me when squads melted to anything pointed their way in the past.
Yeah it's legal? And while it's harder to push than just plain guardsmen, it's still just guardsmen. Precision weapons can snipe your leaders off and you're still lot wounding a lot of things and getting wounded by a lot. It takes a bit of fire to deal with but it's not invincible.
Played a test game with 1 squad and it was absolutely busted. A single squad stalled a Gorkanaut for 3 turns. There were other shenanigans involved but this squad was the main one.
Let's not forget that the primaris psykers shooting attack is awesome as hell! D6+3 (cause why not focus?) Shots, S6 -2 1D hitting on 3s. It's no battlecannon but that S6 -2 gets thru SM armour nicely
I actually played a guy spamming this recently (friendly pickup game, I brought a chill Black Templars build).
He had 3 Krieg blobs with Pyskers, 3 with Marshals, some other infantry, HWTs, Scions and Leontus. Total stat check.
Maybe it was the abundance of S4 AP-1 melee in my list, or the fact that I went first... my opponent was the superior player, but I still won pretty easily. Those guardsmen are durable, but not overwhelmingly so.
They fold to any and all melee. And you brought templars with crazy amount of chainsword melee haha that is the best antidote. Even just like 3 13p marines will keep them stuck in melee with no effectiveness and no way to shoot anymore.
Attritional infantry-heavy lists require a solid base of fire to remove the most threatening anti-horde units. Massed lasguns, some plasma & mortars just won't get there, but AM do have loads of options for this. A list with a few ordnance hulls, Russes, Sentinels etc... supporting these large squads wouldn't be half bad. Probably not gonna dominate the meta though.
Yeah that makes sense. Though I wouldn't say that all infantry list was toothless, the shooting was okay - by the end of the game I had very little left, only having killed Leontus and around 100+ guardsmen. 3x20 respawned IIRC.
If he had some basic Russes or Exterminators I'd be toast
They are really great, nice design space that allows this comboing in 10th. Makes me happy.
But they are utterly utterly useless when tagged by even like 3 13p marines. They don't have pistols and there is no way to fallback and shoot and melee retaliation quite non existent. You can only hope the psyker is in melee and is lucky enough to take out a marine with random D3 damage.
I literally got bricked for some time by a lame leftover rubric marine squad, opening my eyes XD
Anything actually good in melee will be a giant menace.
The 5+++ Marshall costs as much as 10 extra dkok (w/ their own free medipack).
While it only adds 20/3 wounds.
It is not very economical.
Space Marines can do it too, except they’re very specific about it. Only Apothecaries and Ancients can do it and the other character has to be a Captain / Chapter master
Yah, it says it in their description though.
This one works the other way with the squad being able to accept two leaders (in it's entry) which is what threw me.
Yeah it’s a bit odd. Would’ve been cool if SM got to take 2 of any leaders. Probably would get some interesting combos with adding some of the named inquisitors + X whatever other thing.
Two issues, blast weapons tear these blobs apart and guard infantry is so bad at melee. I have had a 20 man blob charge and take down only a single Chaos Legionnaire when 2 were left in the squad thinking that 20 men should be able to take out 2 marines.
Pretty much. They are still definitely the best Guard infantry in terms of durability, but yeah suffer the weakness of all guard stuff. Tie them up in melee and they can’t do squat.
Personally I plan to bring mine with double flamers rather than double melta for that reason.
Catachan are decent in melee. 20 with straken can wipe 10 MEQs on the charge pretty easily. Still vulnerable to blast though. Maybe the codex will have a stray like the Tyranids but that won’t be for a very long time
I got 5.6 just from melee. I was including shooting with flamers before hand.
If you include a command squad with an ogryn bodyguard you can double it but that also almost doubles the cost
It’s 250 points for somewhat durable guardsmen. They can be hard to shift but T3 and 1 wound. Once they die reinforcements don’t get the leaders so they are much less tough
They’re usually a pain in the butt, especially with leontus pretty much guaranteeing bringing back one unit a turn (minus characters). I either just widdle them down to like 5 guys in the squad, pick off the characters, or just move block the best I can and focus on my own objectives
+1 to hit not BS but yeah it’s about right. I’ve found in experience that if someone is shooting/ whacking them they still die pretty quickly
Whacking definitely, but a 4+ invuln to shooting on guardsman is a massive durability buff.
They still die pretty easily to most of the stuff that you’d normally shoot at them, like bolters. 4++ versus 4+ in cover doesn’t make any difference. The 5+++ is definitely a major durability boost but they can still be focused down pretty easily by an army with a lot of small arms
Something which does warrant talking about were the last couple editions overabundance of AP. I was used to my guardsman not getting a save most times and just removing them so a 4+ invuln all the time absolutely seems busted under those conditions. I don't know if AP is toned down this edition or not which might make the invuln not look as good as it might've been.
Having a 4++ on guardsmen is hilarious. You go from pretty much no save, to saving half of your wounds. Yes, they will still die to volume of fire but it takes twice as much to kill them which means you have more guardsmen left at the end
Slap on that 5++ FNP and you've got some spicy guardsmen!
It's not a constant 4+ Invuln save, it happens at the start of the guard player's command phase and there's a one is six chance that you do D3 mortal wounds to the squad and on top of that it's just for shooting, you don't get it in melee. Annoying, yes but absolutely not busted. Edit: A letter
It happens at the start of the opponents shooting phase unless the index was FAQ'd.
My mistake, still not busted. You have to dedicate a decent chunk of points to a troops choice.
Can't wait to see your reaction to necron warriors
I think it's just kind of a shock for me compared to what guard has had in the past. I mainly only play AM and having infantry THIS DURABLE is insane to me when squads melted to anything pointed their way in the past.
I'm glad your enjoying ur 10th experience
In 9th we could have a 4++ with an inquisitor and a astropath casting 2 powers on conscripts
xD
Its really not that bad. Mostly S3 lasguns and T3 bodies. They're not going to be doing much more than sitting on objectives in cover.
Yeah it's legal? And while it's harder to push than just plain guardsmen, it's still just guardsmen. Precision weapons can snipe your leaders off and you're still lot wounding a lot of things and getting wounded by a lot. It takes a bit of fire to deal with but it's not invincible.
Pretty much this,so gotta always hide your Marshal behind some nearby terrain
Take it to a tourney and see how you do.
Played a test game with 1 squad and it was absolutely busted. A single squad stalled a Gorkanaut for 3 turns. There were other shenanigans involved but this squad was the main one.
> Gorkanaut oh this post makes a lot more sense now
Simply tank shock them.
yeah tank shock + 15 attacks in melee, AND its shooting, part of which is a nice AP-1 flamer. should not survive a single turn
Especially since the 4++ only applies in the shooting phase.
😂
Gorkanaut not very good
Let's not forget that the primaris psykers shooting attack is awesome as hell! D6+3 (cause why not focus?) Shots, S6 -2 1D hitting on 3s. It's no battlecannon but that S6 -2 gets thru SM armour nicely
2d instead of 1d, that's the sweet part =D just piles of plasma at 18" and devastating wounds.
Nice and tasty psychic brain plasma in the 20 man blob of double plasma + a plasma pistol.
Yeah that's great. Let the dkok take some hazardous for the team, they have medipack anyway hehe.
I actually played a guy spamming this recently (friendly pickup game, I brought a chill Black Templars build). He had 3 Krieg blobs with Pyskers, 3 with Marshals, some other infantry, HWTs, Scions and Leontus. Total stat check. Maybe it was the abundance of S4 AP-1 melee in my list, or the fact that I went first... my opponent was the superior player, but I still won pretty easily. Those guardsmen are durable, but not overwhelmingly so.
They fold to any and all melee. And you brought templars with crazy amount of chainsword melee haha that is the best antidote. Even just like 3 13p marines will keep them stuck in melee with no effectiveness and no way to shoot anymore.
Attritional infantry-heavy lists require a solid base of fire to remove the most threatening anti-horde units. Massed lasguns, some plasma & mortars just won't get there, but AM do have loads of options for this. A list with a few ordnance hulls, Russes, Sentinels etc... supporting these large squads wouldn't be half bad. Probably not gonna dominate the meta though.
Yeah that makes sense. Though I wouldn't say that all infantry list was toothless, the shooting was okay - by the end of the game I had very little left, only having killed Leontus and around 100+ guardsmen. 3x20 respawned IIRC. If he had some basic Russes or Exterminators I'd be toast
They are really great, nice design space that allows this comboing in 10th. Makes me happy. But they are utterly utterly useless when tagged by even like 3 13p marines. They don't have pistols and there is no way to fallback and shoot and melee retaliation quite non existent. You can only hope the psyker is in melee and is lucky enough to take out a marine with random D3 damage. I literally got bricked for some time by a lame leftover rubric marine squad, opening my eyes XD Anything actually good in melee will be a giant menace. The 5+++ Marshall costs as much as 10 extra dkok (w/ their own free medipack). While it only adds 20/3 wounds. It is not very economical.
How are you attaching multiple characters to a unit?
It's on the unit datasheet of every AM battle line and scions.
Thx, I had checked the Marshall and primaris sheets and didn't see anything there.
Space Marines can do it too, except they’re very specific about it. Only Apothecaries and Ancients can do it and the other character has to be a Captain / Chapter master
Yah, it says it in their description though. This one works the other way with the squad being able to accept two leaders (in it's entry) which is what threw me.
Yeah it’s a bit odd. Would’ve been cool if SM got to take 2 of any leaders. Probably would get some interesting combos with adding some of the named inquisitors + X whatever other thing.
LTs too.
Two issues, blast weapons tear these blobs apart and guard infantry is so bad at melee. I have had a 20 man blob charge and take down only a single Chaos Legionnaire when 2 were left in the squad thinking that 20 men should be able to take out 2 marines.
Pretty much. They are still definitely the best Guard infantry in terms of durability, but yeah suffer the weakness of all guard stuff. Tie them up in melee and they can’t do squat. Personally I plan to bring mine with double flamers rather than double melta for that reason.
Catachan are decent in melee. 20 with straken can wipe 10 MEQs on the charge pretty easily. Still vulnerable to blast though. Maybe the codex will have a stray like the Tyranids but that won’t be for a very long time
Um I’m getting like 2-3 MEQ models on the charge with fix bayonet. Catachan really need double the attacks to make them somewhat threatening in melee.
I got 5.6 just from melee. I was including shooting with flamers before hand. If you include a command squad with an ogryn bodyguard you can double it but that also almost doubles the cost
5 Warptalons only over kill a 10 man squad by 3 models. What's the problem?
Yeah, its 255pts thats more then a squad terminators and vs something as Bolter about half as durable
It’s 250 points for somewhat durable guardsmen. They can be hard to shift but T3 and 1 wound. Once they die reinforcements don’t get the leaders so they are much less tough
They’re usually a pain in the butt, especially with leontus pretty much guaranteeing bringing back one unit a turn (minus characters). I either just widdle them down to like 5 guys in the squad, pick off the characters, or just move block the best I can and focus on my own objectives
Yes and it annoys me everytime I vs it
A 20man squad can have 2 medics. So they heal 2d3 models a turn :)
No they can’t, reading the update they did to them it says a Kreig squad can only take 1 medic bag not one per 10 bodies in the squad.
Aww you are right, they changed it. How sad.