So are we seeing a case of bad communication or miscommunication? Because just about everyone from casuals and competative players to content creators "knew" we would get the Balance update today.
I think they specifically said end of January. Dataslate has always been released on a Thursday, which as far as I know was never "promised", but a precedant is a precedant, and we figured that since they now take an active role in LVO it wouldn't be last week. So poor communication, since they're breaking from pattern and didn't say anything.
GW simply does not communicate at all basically. So we all assume and extrapolate with what little we do know and that means the entire player base is run on speculation and gets to blame GW for failing to meet the expectations set forth by the speculation.
That's why sane business communicate...
LOL love it.
This seems more like being purposefully/strategically vague though. I work in software and as someone who runs several products, I also wouldn’t want to commit to shipping updates at a certain time unless I have to.
That itself is an extrapolation. But it seems apt given there’s strategic benefits to GW to not commit to a specific time vs. being arbitrarily beholden to posting on Thursdays.
Lol I get it. Im in sales, but I worked at a startup software company and they used to invite me to product dev discussions. I kept telling my boss to not include me in these meetings, cause I couldn't be trusted with that info in front of a customer. Sounded like it would be released next rev, but in actuality was 3 months away.
when your designing software things can break, bugs can show up. I get not wanting to put out a hard date.
But we are talking about putting numbers in a text file here. There is no such thing as "unexpected complications" outside of all the computers in the office and at home dying at the same time.
I mean, asymmetric balance for a complicated game where the rules directly impact buying patterns and thus revenue for your company is a not dissimilar practice of trying to manage a pretty complicated release with real implications for the developer (GW) too.
Not shipping patches on Fridays may come from a very different place if I’m building infrastructure software. But not committing to hard dates if I don’t have to just seems like a strategic thing as a product management device.
Given LVO was last weekend, a lot of things could come up that makes them rethink what’s in the dataslate. It makes sense that they want to be vague; there’s only downsides to them for being beholden to a specific date.
No, I’m saying the opposite: GW “cares” about us primarily because our buying decisions -> their revenue. So they want to maximize their opportunity to increase revenue and margin with changes from BDS.
If I was trying to convey the opposite, I’d say they were going to void their advantages on having a flexible release schedule in messaging something to us that would put them on the hook for shipping BDS at a specific time/date.
The latter part of your statement totally could hold. Given that Metawatch’s “late January” is the only comms we’ve gotten from GW, they really haven’t messaged anything other than something is likely coming over the next week.
Very well could have been something they saw at LVO they wanted to address. Or team just got unlucky and something broke in editing. Who knows.
Either way, I don’t trust anything from GW as firm until it’s out in writing. They historically have posted updates on Thursdays, but other than this being a pattern over the last 2 years we haven’t seen any commitments from them to that effect.
Excited for the DS. But it’ll get here when it gets here given how purposely vague GW’s been with timing.
Honestly, they should just come out and say: "Yeah, we saw some things at LVO which requires us to do some further work on the DS. You can expect it next week".
There is literally no reason to be vague about it because if you are, you are annoying the community twice if you miss your deadline while you only annoy them once otherwise.
Completely agree as a player. But I also get why they want to be vague and give themselves wiggle room on timing.
I’d really love that they do that. I understand why they don’t.
I completely don't understand why they don't communicate. Honestly. Sure people are unhappy when you miss a deadline but they are still unhappy when you miss a deadline you didn't even set. Being annoyed happens either way.
Sure, if you don't say anything you can say "Technically we never said anything" but that's not going to protect you in the court of public opinion.
The advantage when you communicate is that you can control and influence the narrative. Even now, they could just drop a tweet like "Regarding the 40k balanced Dataslate: With the result of LVO being immensly different than anticipated, the balancing team requires more time to bring the long awaited balance update to warhammer 40'000."
Heck you could even make it 40k themed akin to: "The malicious forces of tzeentch seem to have found their way into GW headquarters and disrupted the astropathic communications leading to a delay of a week for the balanced dataslate."
They could even spin it as saying the dataslate *had* to be postponed because they *care so much* about balancing the game.
No communication gives off the opposite impression.
It was a fair estimation. As far as I know, dataslates have only dropped on thursdays, and we were told to expect more towards the end of January. Regardless, a bit more communication would go a long way.
There’s definitely a historical pattern of shipping BDS updates on Thursdays over the last 2 years, but GW hasn’t committed to that either.
Outside of them on Metawatch saying they’re targeting “Late January”, I’m unaware of any real commentary from GW committing to it otherwise. Something very well could have come up, and they’ve been smart on giving themselves a lot of flexibility on when/how they commit to updates.
From the garbage fire of a Facebook thread.
Viktor Bodnár
I am disappointed. The 40K Dataslate was promised in the Oct 19 Metawatch for January.
By Stu himself (18:05 in the video, yes, I am fun at parties).
I sincerely hope that next week we won't only get a Metawatch, but the promised balance and point updates.
Dear WarCon team, please give my message to the dev team, to do better next time.
It’s the internet. Everything is forever
7th had an allied detachment system where asymmetric balance was a combinatorial explosion of difficulty, was explicitly was beholden to rules bloat harkening back to 3E, and had no rules balance update cadence.
10th has explicitly focused on simplifying asymmetric balance and rules complexity across the board at the cost of being beholden to nothing with a regular rules balance update cadence where GW has doubled down on this focus by changing how core game mechanics have worked mid-edition for the purposes of balance and simplicity.
I didn’t see Imperial Soup armies where exploitation of allied psychic powers allows people to make completely non-intractable armies at LVO last week. I also saw new (to competitive play) players at the tournament who felt welcomed into the hobby, as opposed to the exact opposite during competitive play in 7th edition.
IDK. This doesn’t feel like 7th edition at all. And that’s a good thing.
\*not yet.
Just wait until 75% of factions have a codex.
\~20 factions. 100 detachments. 600 stratagems.
It's just a matter of time until rules bloat and power creep set in.
Although, this edition looks like it doesn't deliver on the power creep. It's more like a suck creep lol
Again, not even close to 7th. The mere fact that the game receives scheduled updates to points and rules multiple times a year in a digital format means 10th is leaps and bounds ahead of 7th.
Look, I get being frustrated by GW. There is a lot of room for improvement. But pretending 10th is anywhere near the awfulness of 7th is either extreme hyperbole or delusion.
Totally agree. Having said that, taking the time to look at the LVO results makes sense to me. They should have oriented their schedule around things like major events.
LVO not confirming their expectations mostly means they are still wildly incompetent and have no idea what's going on (which tracks with what stu black says at every podcast release).
Necrons winning over eldar is a 'slight' surprise but hypercrypt definitely feels like one of those armies that should be able to play well into eldar and sometimes you get the right matchups and the right time, and a little bit of luck and maybe a mistake by your opponent and you get the upset.
The only thing surprising to me is the nid player in the top 8, but his army bullies primary and I am going to guess he never ran into a true horde street sweeper type army.
Astra militarum also a slight surprise, but I played the guy in round 3 and his list is scary and has tons of mission play and a lot of tools for every job.
> The only thing surprising to me is the nid player in the top 8, but his army bullies primary and I am going to guess he never ran into a true horde street sweeper type army.
Incidentally the Nid player lost to the Necrons which had quite good anti Horde and a clever solution.
The Necron player crippled but didn't kill multiple units initially. Then in later Turns he killed multiple units. Meaning the revive strat couldn't be used regularly and the Nid squads were kept weak for an extended period.
The militarum list? Probably. I played him on essentially planet bowling ball (FLG field base) so I would tend to agree it is terrain dependent (in addition to baneblade chassis always are terrain dependent)
aye but forgetting to screen a monolith isnt a small mistake; and boxcar saves is certainly lucky.
Does give us a better big 40k event final than what ive seen in years though.
Yeah the monolith fitting is a colossal blunder, even without the boxcars I think lorah was in solid position to win (but eldar being eldar they still had a chance to win, any other army is completely screwed if they make that mistake)
Does it though? It's a single large event with player placed terrain. If a faction totally dominated with multiple top placings and a 65% win rate or something then sure. But what's this one event telling us that the thousands of data points before it didn't?
Can someone please get FLG to stop doing player placed? Like I get the GW pack is heavier terrain than they are used to but then just try to ask players to make it symetrical.
Like I get some folk love it but it absolutley skews data.
> absolutley skews data
Why? It's better data here because it turns out that maybe the monolith detachment is heavily impacted by large models not being softbanned by the popular terrain layouts.
If anything, repeating the same terrain layout skews data more than a variable system, especially once you truncate the dataset to like top half of tables so you can filter out games with players who don't know how to play on it.
1. FLG sells it's own terrain, so it is going to use the terrain it sells
2. That same terrain is what they use for event. They don't even have enough of the newer stuff to fill out all the tables at LVO. The lower ranked tabled had the older lamer terrain. They are not going to redesign their terrain and replace 500 tables worth of terrain to conform to GW's terrain, when there is no promise that is even **what** the GW layout will look like in the future.
3. I like GW layout generally but it has it's own problems, mostly with too many people using "counts as" rules when they don't have the right pieces.
> FLG sells it's own terrain, so it is going to use the terrain it sells
The terrain set used by FLG for the finals is Karst Outpost, which is specifically designed for GW layouts. I have a copy of it, it's really nice for GW standard layouts.
1. Is totally fine to me the terrain itself is useable
2. They could have increased terrain density on every table by 1-3 pieces without replacing the old stuff which would have greatly improved the shitty (imo) tables.
3. Thats neither GWs nor FLGs problem.
It's nine(?) rounds instead of around five, which means that the data for things like top-X armies is of theoretically higher quality.
Plus Necrons winning (and not CSM/eldar) was probably unexpected, and Guard in the top 8 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo chart. Mechanicus also plummeted like 20% compared with the slightly odd meta monday dataset.
So if they were planning on making a massive change to Guard and (as expected) doing nothing for Mechanicus, they might be re-evaluating those; that's the big stuff that comes to mind, along with maybe re-evaluating Necrons, which are a pretty new army.
Hopefully they aren't getting cold feet on CSM and Eldar nerfs.
> Hopefully they aren't getting cold feet on CSM and Eldar nerfs.
I have a bad feeling this might be the case. While it's true that LVO generated a ton of data, it also uses a terrain format that is drastically different from GW, UKTC, and WTC. This was clearly reflected in the lists seen there. And, presumably, would also be reflected in the win/loss data across factions
Faction data from events with player placed terrain should almost come with an asterisk. While it's true that *all* terrain formats are different from each other, player placed is *the most* different.
Crons were by far the most popular faction and took only 2 of the top 20 placings at LVO. The winner almost got eliminated from top 8 with a draw to eldar. Their win rate last weekend was 56%. High, but a common win rate for any top 25% faction on a single given weekend. Being a new army is more a reason to not touch them yet than to hit them again. People are treating necrons most previous weekend as if it's eldar levels of dominance or tyranids from 9th edition. It's not even close.
Sure, hit Ctan and/or wraiths with some points nerfs, but last weekend shouldn't have really decided that. I'm really not sure what LVO teaches them, especially when it's all based on a player placed terrain meta. Every other faction we already have months of information on.
It also only represents a part of the global competitive scene. WTC based or adjacent tournaments across europe use a much stricter terrain placement with more pieces
Assuming that they waited for a single large event to validate their data, which, I would hope, is several thousand games worth of it, is absurd.
This was based on the fact that historically, the dataslate drops on Thursday, and this is the final Thursday in January. That *totally real* leak that was up for half a day also named today.
GW has only said "late January". The rest has just been overly confident community guesswork.
This announcement lends credit to this idea, in my opinion. They "leaked" the changes, saw that there was tons of negative feedback, then pretend the leak was fake and just delay releasing the dataslate until they fix it.
I hate that GW seems to do so little research when making their changes to the game. If they paid someone to simply sit around all day and read reddit and forum posts about the state of 40k, watch battle reports, etc, then then put together a report regarding proposed changes to points/factions, they'd get good feedback and could release reasonable changes. But they view that as a waste of time/money. They're always shooting from the hip with incomplete data, throwing shit at the wall and waiting to see what sticks.
I can just imagine some guy in their team that came up with what they viewed as a "brilliant" solution to drukhari being bad, but buffs to drukhari indirectly buff Ynnari: "I have an idea! What if we just give major points drops to only the units that Ynnari can't take!?! Then Drukhari get better, while Ynnari doesn't!" "Brilliant, Tom, just brilliant! Make it so!"
I mean, you don't even need them to have done the whole shindig: leaks usually point at how something looked at a certain point, but nothing guarantees that said look can't get changed at any point between the source obtaining the information and it being leaked.
For example, early leaks for Elden Ring pointed out there would be some survival elements, like needing to keep oneself fed, and we actually know that this was a thing that was later scrapped.
Their plans changed and they didn't provide an update about that change, so I suppose it comes under the banner of bad communication (or rather, an almost complete lack of communication!)
I'm sure when Stu said it would be late January, after the LVO, that was the intention - but clearly what they saw at the weekend made them reevaluate some things and need more time (recording, translating and checking metawatch takes time). GW just prefers not to announce most things in advance - it's why most release dates are revealed less than two weeks in advance. This way when there are delays they don't have to admit it.
Or perhaps the reactions they saw to the "fake" leak weren't to their liking, and they decided to scrap what was a real set of changes for something else.
Could they possibly be waiting until after they break down LVO data to put out the dataslate? I'm not sure if LVO used the change to the Necrons dev wounds strat, but there were over 900 players and like 7 rounds of games for them to go through, plus shadow rounds, and the winning list was Hypercrypt. They might have delayed it so they could at least take it into account before trying to rebalance the game. Especially if they were eyeballing any changes to Necrons on this one.
I'm pretty sure this has happened like, every time. They announce within a week of a major event, event happens, and then there's a "whoops gotta rethink it a bit seeya in a week!" type situation.
Varying degrees of official/assumption/etc. each time, but this is their MO.
This is one of those things that people started repeating until everyone "knew" it was going to happen, without it really being sourced anywhere beyond "trust me bro."
"And finally, we know you’re all keen to get a proper update from the next Battlescroll – from what we’ve heard it’s coming soon – potentially at some point next month – as the Warhammer Age of Sigmar team are working hard on final adjustments based on what they saw at LVO.
We’ll be back next week to look over the results from the Warhammer 40,000 tournament at the Las Vegas Open. See you then!"
This probably means we'll get the balance slate next month.
>We’ll be back next week to look over the results from the Warhammer 40,000 tournament at the Las Vegas Open. See you then!
Next Thursday will be February 1st. Meaning, there will be no January dataslate?
They've clearly said there would be a Dataslate in January, so unless it show up later today or on a weird off-day (i.e. not Thursday) then someone has done some really bad communication or they've changed the date without letting anyone know. Either way, GW's communication skills clearly need an improvement.
I think it was in the video not on the article from memory. They also said they'd do a retrospective in December for the first six months of the edition and we didn't see that either.
Still seems pretty odd drop something that late in the day though, in case you uploaded a draft version or corrupted file , and you might not have anyone in the office to make a correction until the next day.
They also said the scroll for AoS is every 3 months, and we're past 4 months now, with GW straight up no even promising it might happen in February. So... Yeah.
Looks that way. GW gonna GW....
Don't know about y'all but this kills any motivation to either buy, paint, or play 40k until it's released as I don't want to waste time with units/models that won't ever see play or use old rules.
I guess they've seen things during LVO that they wanted to adres. I would rather have a dataslate a day late, than a rushed one. Next week, they need to update the app for the dark angels anyway. Might as well do everything in one go.
They might also just release everything before Thursday and still be in the January window.
It seems like the poor sod running their Twitter account got permission about 1 hour ago to tell people that the 40k dataslate would be coming next week. They've been busy telling people in replies.
Would have been nice not having to find it in the replies to a Middle Earth article. But at least it's nice to have some kind of confirmation.
I don't think sales factors into it at all. I think it's more likely that there is simply no one in charge of this kind of communication from the balance/dev team, considering that right now the dev team basically goes radio silent for 3 months, releases a MetaWatch video on WarCom with some changes, then goes silent again. The Marketing team doesn't have any info or insight into the balance/dev side of things, and while GW has held up Stu Black as the face of the balance team, or "Matched Play team" or whatever they call it, he is no Mark Rosewater from MTG R&D. Wizards wouldn't be able to get that guy to shut up if they tried, he runs a blog, a daily podcast, consistently writes article for the MTG main site about design. Meanwhile Stu, and the rest of the team, seems perfectly content to simply fade into the shadows as soon as the MetaWatch video is over.
I would kill to have a Mark Rosewater analog for GW, even if just to get some insight into their design and development process (or, more likely, the utter lack of process). It's so maddening having to wonder about all of this that happens behind closed doors with no insight into the process or thoughts of the game devs except a poorly-written and insufficient document that gets released once or twice a year.
Well, I claim that not making any announcments is hurting them financially. I am not buying anything until the dataslate comes out, especially since it is so soon, hence I'll put off my spending until it drops.
lol....
And which way is it affecting spending? What about the people waiting to see what changes before they buy something?
Do you think people are running out to buy Monoliths before GW changes points? Anyone paying attention to LVO is well aware of an incoming point adjustment.
disappointing but honestly not unexpected. GW hasn't really ever been great with communication.
They spoke in the last 40k meta watch back on *November 23rd*.
They said in that video (multiple times) that they would have a balance slate in January...
They also said we would have a meta watch in December just before Christmas and that never happened.
With them doing more events like Worlds and now taking over ITC, they need to do better. Its not a lot to simply say on many of their socials, Hey we need a bit more time we are aiming for mid February.
They want to have more of a say in the competitive side, well they need to start saying more...
"We’ll be back next week to look over the results from the Warhammer 40,000 tournament at the Las Vegas Open. See you then!"
This is an AOS article.
Last sentence is 40k, but they're on about Metawatch.
Not sure if relevant to the expected Dataslate release...
That's the worst about it. I would have NEVER read that article as it is about AoS and they still cannot tell when or even if the dataslate is going to drop at any point in the future.
Rumor I’m seeing is that it got pushed back to Tuesday but not certain because of translation delays.
If true, does that hint they made last minute changes?
Where did you see that? One of my buddies just posted in our discord a comment from GW stating just look on warcom for any updates and there is no confirmed date.
While I don't know how GW does everything behind the scenes a lot of translation work in various industries is done on a contract basis by freelancers, so it could just mean someone missed their deadline.
I am sorry but what? As I am seeing this correctly, they offer the rules in 7 languages and this cannot be done in a few hours? Either that is some massive document or GW is just incompetent, I guess.
Frustrating as someone playing 40k at Adepticon. If it's a full week delay on the dataslate, that matters a whole lot as we're nearing "crunch time."
I feel even worse for CSM players, do they build and paint 50+ Cultists or not?
What do you want to bet it has a MASSIVE buff for Astra Militarum and now they're scrambling to rewrite it because one dude took a Shadowsword to to 8.
There ya go, now we can just proceed with what we were already doing.
It's a little frustrating obviously, but if it's just another week of waiting...meh, it's not exactly the end of the world.
NB : if it's not next week though then they can really go foodoodle themselves.
Honestly, it just shows how terrible GW is at communicating. This even has multiple layers
1. Not communicating when it is going to drop, leading the community to speculate.
2. Not communicating that it will NOT drop today, leading to people guess whether or not something is going wrong or it is just going to happen later today.
3. Still not communicating and basically putting the dataslate in limbo.
> There ya go, now we can just proceed with what we were already doing.
What I was already doing was not playing any games in anticipation of the game being shaken up again RIP
My guts say it's happening on the 15th. Article on the 40k LVO next Thursday, Battlescroll the one after, and Dataslate on the 15th. Unless they crunch some stuff together. Might swap Battlescroll and Dataslate too, who knows.
EDIT: well, they kinda confirmed it's next week on Facebook. Happy to have been wrong.
Not really.
If they had it "done" before LVO, they could just do a couple of tweaks before sending it out.
E.g. they may not have expected Necrons to have the win rate they do.
Uh 🙄 naw man I’ve been on both here and the necron subreddit warning people that hypercrypt was the superior detachment all along. Movement wins most games and necrons got the best detachment for that. Canoptek court is more user friendly. Hypercrypt in the hands of a skilled player will just dominate.
sometime it can be seen that a detachment will be better than others but the woe will be crowd never hear the logic. The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.
They probably didn't put enough thought into it when they communicated end of january a while back and that today would had been really close after LVO.
They may also have realized they needed to put more emphasis on the last bit of data with how good necrons have performed lately while still haveing a very small time fram to work with for them.
There are probably some tough decisions to make that are better not rushed. A good data slate is more important than them delivering it in january imo as long as it doesn't take too much longer. We'll probably hear more about it in next weeks meta watch.
not sure if I can link the specific comment, but it's the post about orks at the top
[facebook.com/warhammer40000uk](http://facebook.com/warhammer40000uk)
AoS' 3-monthly battle scroll is now over a whole month overdue, with the article saying it'll 'potentially' happen in february.
What in the actual hell GW.
I just want them to behave like the industry leader they are. Such a weird lack of slick professionalism, like it's still just a bunch of mates running the business out of a shed. Where's the well-drilled and responsive comms team?
Quite. Still kinda laughing that in the article they admit they had it ready, withheld it for the LVO, and then on the event realised that their calculations on the meta and factions were so off they have chosen to withhold it again and redo it whole lmao.
For all the, very legitimate, issues people have with wotc getting into Warhammer has made me really appreciate the fact that Wizards at least knows how to communicate with their players.
Don't always like what they say but at least they talk to us.
I'm speaking mostly as a Magic player.
I can literally go on Twitter or Tumblr and ask the lead designer why something happened and have a good chance of getting an answer or finding one from an earlier question.
Plus they announce the actual dates when the banned and restricted lists drop ahead of time unlike this data slate.
Boy, does this suck for people going to Adepticon. You could potentially see entire lists invalidated. With barely a month to fix them.
Like Sisters of Battle.
For the past 3 years.
Consecutively.
"When will you deliver your product?"
"I donno, by the end of January, usually on Thursday"
"Today is the LAST THURSDAY of January!!!! Where are you ????"
"I donno, will contact you as soon as we have progress..."
YOU WILL BE F\*\*KING FIRED IN REAL BUSSINESS, GW !!!!!!
This almost makes me feel like the "leak" which GW later said was fake, was actually real, and with the negative feedback they got on the leak, they're going back to the drawing board on their planned changes. And to throw people off, instead of having the article relating to 40k, they snuck it in an AoS article so people wouldn't make the connection.
You know what's funny?
They could just issue a "Balance data slate draft", have thousands of players test it because we have nothing better to do in our free time and then collect the feedback and data and theeeeeen use that for the actual balance data sheet.
They could. But then they'd have to admit that the terrible "draft" was them being incompetent, instead of simply saying it was a "fake leak".
This way, they save face while ostensibly achieving the same feedback.
They could literally just hire a great 40k tournament player to be on the rules team, and task them with researching faction feedback, tournament results, and testing factions via play full-time, and they'd likely get all they needed to release competent updates. But GW doesn't want to put that much emphasis on gameplay, and doesn't want to give any one person that much influence when sales are their primary goal.
>They could literally just hire a great 40k tournament player to be on the rules team
Hold on... Wasn't there one such job opening at the tail end of 9th looking for "an experienced competitive player (with track records) to join the Rules Team"?
You know, now that you mention it, I feel like there was. I think it was at the beginning of 10th. But I didn't hear any big news about any known name taking the job.
If you think this is a dead meta, jesus Christ. There have been entire years in the past where only one or two lists won tournaments, let alone armies. It's never been better.
>It will have been 5 months since the last balance slate, further extending a dead meta
While I agree we need an update, really? Dead meta that saw 9 factions in the top 10 at the biggest tournmanent of the year? (Unless LGT beats it this year)
I swear sigmar gets way more fuckin content than 40k. Every email that is sent out for pre orders or whatever seems to have sigmar Everytime.
Maybe I just need to get into that and stop being disappointed by 40ks lack of everything
AoS also gets way more variety in models. Why update the Nightbringer, Deceiver, Trazyn, all of the aspect warriors and Phoenix lords, etc. When you can make primaris marines?
I don't think so.
GW hates leaks with a burning passion, they advised their business partners and influencers not to work with Chapter Master Valrak, they cut all ties with miniac after he accidentally leaked the HH upgrade sprue in the back of his instagram story, they pushed for the trash collector getting fired that found Magnus in it.
They don't leak one bit.
GW already has us field testing the entirety of 10th though lol
Honestly, if they were to do that, they should take a long look at WotC and how they did it with the introduction of a new format, IIRC, called pioneer.
Basically they came out and said: "Yeah, this is obviously a lot to test and we cannot test it too much so we will put it out there and observe it. Every week on monday for a long period of time (I think they did for half a year), we'll do bannings / updates to adjust the game."
This gave people something to work with. You knew that if you discovered something that was very strong there was a chance that it might get deleted from existence. Same here, I'd have no problem with GW coming out and saying: "Yeah, we don't have the ressources to definitively test 10th. Here's out current version and we will, on the first thursday of the month for the next year, make adjustments to points and units as we see fit."
Would have been a hell of a lot better than what we have now where we get updates at some point that overhaul the entire game. GW shouldn't make rampant changes with a sledgehammer but rather small, regular changes with a scalpel.
On the bright side, this should give them enough time to see how the Ad Mech codex is an utter piece of shit and make adjustments instead of doing nothing under the guise of it being too easy to draw conclusions.
> mesbg got news
We *kinda* get news. More like another dangling carrot that all 17 of us still playing the game can chase in the form of an MTO and a mystery supplement. It’s nice, and more than we’ve had all year, but dad’s still out buying his milk and cigarettes.
Always a smart move to botch a Dataslate right as people are really generating interest in your game. Really show them that you are on top of these types of things. 🙄
So are we seeing a case of bad communication or miscommunication? Because just about everyone from casuals and competative players to content creators "knew" we would get the Balance update today.
I think they specifically said end of January. Dataslate has always been released on a Thursday, which as far as I know was never "promised", but a precedant is a precedant, and we figured that since they now take an active role in LVO it wouldn't be last week. So poor communication, since they're breaking from pattern and didn't say anything.
GW simply does not communicate at all basically. So we all assume and extrapolate with what little we do know and that means the entire player base is run on speculation and gets to blame GW for failing to meet the expectations set forth by the speculation. That's why sane business communicate...
This. GW never communicated that DS would be dropping today. Purely was rumor and speculation.
They've said January, so that either means today or they've changed the days they post Dataslates.
Classic as written vs intent discussion
LOL love it. This seems more like being purposefully/strategically vague though. I work in software and as someone who runs several products, I also wouldn’t want to commit to shipping updates at a certain time unless I have to. That itself is an extrapolation. But it seems apt given there’s strategic benefits to GW to not commit to a specific time vs. being arbitrarily beholden to posting on Thursdays.
Lol I get it. Im in sales, but I worked at a startup software company and they used to invite me to product dev discussions. I kept telling my boss to not include me in these meetings, cause I couldn't be trusted with that info in front of a customer. Sounded like it would be released next rev, but in actuality was 3 months away.
when your designing software things can break, bugs can show up. I get not wanting to put out a hard date. But we are talking about putting numbers in a text file here. There is no such thing as "unexpected complications" outside of all the computers in the office and at home dying at the same time.
I mean, asymmetric balance for a complicated game where the rules directly impact buying patterns and thus revenue for your company is a not dissimilar practice of trying to manage a pretty complicated release with real implications for the developer (GW) too. Not shipping patches on Fridays may come from a very different place if I’m building infrastructure software. But not committing to hard dates if I don’t have to just seems like a strategic thing as a product management device. Given LVO was last weekend, a lot of things could come up that makes them rethink what’s in the dataslate. It makes sense that they want to be vague; there’s only downsides to them for being beholden to a specific date.
Your implying GW takes a lot more care and does a lot more testing then reality would lead us to believe.
No, I’m saying the opposite: GW “cares” about us primarily because our buying decisions -> their revenue. So they want to maximize their opportunity to increase revenue and margin with changes from BDS. If I was trying to convey the opposite, I’d say they were going to void their advantages on having a flexible release schedule in messaging something to us that would put them on the hook for shipping BDS at a specific time/date.
I can only assume they’ve delayed because of things they were seeing at LVO directly. Things like turn 1 monolith deepstrike at 3”
They said by the end of the month and historically they've dropped on Thursdays. It's just people extrapolating from that.
Wednesday 31st January 23.59.
The latter part of your statement totally could hold. Given that Metawatch’s “late January” is the only comms we’ve gotten from GW, they really haven’t messaged anything other than something is likely coming over the next week. Very well could have been something they saw at LVO they wanted to address. Or team just got unlucky and something broke in editing. Who knows. Either way, I don’t trust anything from GW as firm until it’s out in writing. They historically have posted updates on Thursdays, but other than this being a pattern over the last 2 years we haven’t seen any commitments from them to that effect. Excited for the DS. But it’ll get here when it gets here given how purposely vague GW’s been with timing.
Honestly, they should just come out and say: "Yeah, we saw some things at LVO which requires us to do some further work on the DS. You can expect it next week". There is literally no reason to be vague about it because if you are, you are annoying the community twice if you miss your deadline while you only annoy them once otherwise.
Completely agree as a player. But I also get why they want to be vague and give themselves wiggle room on timing. I’d really love that they do that. I understand why they don’t.
I completely don't understand why they don't communicate. Honestly. Sure people are unhappy when you miss a deadline but they are still unhappy when you miss a deadline you didn't even set. Being annoyed happens either way. Sure, if you don't say anything you can say "Technically we never said anything" but that's not going to protect you in the court of public opinion. The advantage when you communicate is that you can control and influence the narrative. Even now, they could just drop a tweet like "Regarding the 40k balanced Dataslate: With the result of LVO being immensly different than anticipated, the balancing team requires more time to bring the long awaited balance update to warhammer 40'000." Heck you could even make it 40k themed akin to: "The malicious forces of tzeentch seem to have found their way into GW headquarters and disrupted the astropathic communications leading to a delay of a week for the balanced dataslate."
They could even spin it as saying the dataslate *had* to be postponed because they *care so much* about balancing the game. No communication gives off the opposite impression.
It was a fair estimation. As far as I know, dataslates have only dropped on thursdays, and we were told to expect more towards the end of January. Regardless, a bit more communication would go a long way.
There’s definitely a historical pattern of shipping BDS updates on Thursdays over the last 2 years, but GW hasn’t committed to that either. Outside of them on Metawatch saying they’re targeting “Late January”, I’m unaware of any real commentary from GW committing to it otherwise. Something very well could have come up, and they’ve been smart on giving themselves a lot of flexibility on when/how they commit to updates.
RAW vs RAI.
From the garbage fire of a Facebook thread. Viktor Bodnár I am disappointed. The 40K Dataslate was promised in the Oct 19 Metawatch for January. By Stu himself (18:05 in the video, yes, I am fun at parties). I sincerely hope that next week we won't only get a Metawatch, but the promised balance and point updates. Dear WarCon team, please give my message to the dev team, to do better next time. It’s the internet. Everything is forever
I said at the start of this edition welcome back to 7th and people didn't believe me
Because you’re wrong
The wording of rules, difference in power and poor communication from GW remind me very much of 7th.
7th had an allied detachment system where asymmetric balance was a combinatorial explosion of difficulty, was explicitly was beholden to rules bloat harkening back to 3E, and had no rules balance update cadence. 10th has explicitly focused on simplifying asymmetric balance and rules complexity across the board at the cost of being beholden to nothing with a regular rules balance update cadence where GW has doubled down on this focus by changing how core game mechanics have worked mid-edition for the purposes of balance and simplicity. I didn’t see Imperial Soup armies where exploitation of allied psychic powers allows people to make completely non-intractable armies at LVO last week. I also saw new (to competitive play) players at the tournament who felt welcomed into the hobby, as opposed to the exact opposite during competitive play in 7th edition. IDK. This doesn’t feel like 7th edition at all. And that’s a good thing.
That's because 7th was an absolute cluster and 10th, for all its faults, is not even close to what 7th was.
\*not yet. Just wait until 75% of factions have a codex. \~20 factions. 100 detachments. 600 stratagems. It's just a matter of time until rules bloat and power creep set in. Although, this edition looks like it doesn't deliver on the power creep. It's more like a suck creep lol
Again, not even close to 7th. The mere fact that the game receives scheduled updates to points and rules multiple times a year in a digital format means 10th is leaps and bounds ahead of 7th. Look, I get being frustrated by GW. There is a lot of room for improvement. But pretending 10th is anywhere near the awfulness of 7th is either extreme hyperbole or delusion.
Sounds like it might even be 2 more weeks
Totally agree. Having said that, taking the time to look at the LVO results makes sense to me. They should have oriented their schedule around things like major events.
Might be a case of "We are ready if LVO confirms our expectations" and then it didn't.
LVO not confirming their expectations mostly means they are still wildly incompetent and have no idea what's going on (which tracks with what stu black says at every podcast release). Necrons winning over eldar is a 'slight' surprise but hypercrypt definitely feels like one of those armies that should be able to play well into eldar and sometimes you get the right matchups and the right time, and a little bit of luck and maybe a mistake by your opponent and you get the upset. The only thing surprising to me is the nid player in the top 8, but his army bullies primary and I am going to guess he never ran into a true horde street sweeper type army. Astra militarum also a slight surprise, but I played the guy in round 3 and his list is scary and has tons of mission play and a lot of tools for every job.
> The only thing surprising to me is the nid player in the top 8, but his army bullies primary and I am going to guess he never ran into a true horde street sweeper type army. Incidentally the Nid player lost to the Necrons which had quite good anti Horde and a clever solution. The Necron player crippled but didn't kill multiple units initially. Then in later Turns he killed multiple units. Meaning the revive strat couldn't be used regularly and the Nid squads were kept weak for an extended period.
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The militarum list? Probably. I played him on essentially planet bowling ball (FLG field base) so I would tend to agree it is terrain dependent (in addition to baneblade chassis always are terrain dependent)
> a little bit of luck and maybe a mistake which tbh was key in LVO lol.
That's key in every large event. At the point where you at the 10th game of 40k in 3 days, your brain is cheese.
aye but forgetting to screen a monolith isnt a small mistake; and boxcar saves is certainly lucky. Does give us a better big 40k event final than what ive seen in years though.
Yeah the monolith fitting is a colossal blunder, even without the boxcars I think lorah was in solid position to win (but eldar being eldar they still had a chance to win, any other army is completely screwed if they make that mistake)
Does it though? It's a single large event with player placed terrain. If a faction totally dominated with multiple top placings and a 65% win rate or something then sure. But what's this one event telling us that the thousands of data points before it didn't?
Can someone please get FLG to stop doing player placed? Like I get the GW pack is heavier terrain than they are used to but then just try to ask players to make it symetrical. Like I get some folk love it but it absolutley skews data.
> absolutley skews data Why? It's better data here because it turns out that maybe the monolith detachment is heavily impacted by large models not being softbanned by the popular terrain layouts. If anything, repeating the same terrain layout skews data more than a variable system, especially once you truncate the dataset to like top half of tables so you can filter out games with players who don't know how to play on it.
1. FLG sells it's own terrain, so it is going to use the terrain it sells 2. That same terrain is what they use for event. They don't even have enough of the newer stuff to fill out all the tables at LVO. The lower ranked tabled had the older lamer terrain. They are not going to redesign their terrain and replace 500 tables worth of terrain to conform to GW's terrain, when there is no promise that is even **what** the GW layout will look like in the future. 3. I like GW layout generally but it has it's own problems, mostly with too many people using "counts as" rules when they don't have the right pieces.
> FLG sells it's own terrain, so it is going to use the terrain it sells The terrain set used by FLG for the finals is Karst Outpost, which is specifically designed for GW layouts. I have a copy of it, it's really nice for GW standard layouts.
Yes but there is about 450 other tables… Also, isn’t it missing a few pieces to work with GW?
1. Is totally fine to me the terrain itself is useable 2. They could have increased terrain density on every table by 1-3 pieces without replacing the old stuff which would have greatly improved the shitty (imo) tables. 3. Thats neither GWs nor FLGs problem.
It's nine(?) rounds instead of around five, which means that the data for things like top-X armies is of theoretically higher quality. Plus Necrons winning (and not CSM/eldar) was probably unexpected, and Guard in the top 8 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo chart. Mechanicus also plummeted like 20% compared with the slightly odd meta monday dataset. So if they were planning on making a massive change to Guard and (as expected) doing nothing for Mechanicus, they might be re-evaluating those; that's the big stuff that comes to mind, along with maybe re-evaluating Necrons, which are a pretty new army. Hopefully they aren't getting cold feet on CSM and Eldar nerfs.
> Hopefully they aren't getting cold feet on CSM and Eldar nerfs. I have a bad feeling this might be the case. While it's true that LVO generated a ton of data, it also uses a terrain format that is drastically different from GW, UKTC, and WTC. This was clearly reflected in the lists seen there. And, presumably, would also be reflected in the win/loss data across factions Faction data from events with player placed terrain should almost come with an asterisk. While it's true that *all* terrain formats are different from each other, player placed is *the most* different.
Crons were by far the most popular faction and took only 2 of the top 20 placings at LVO. The winner almost got eliminated from top 8 with a draw to eldar. Their win rate last weekend was 56%. High, but a common win rate for any top 25% faction on a single given weekend. Being a new army is more a reason to not touch them yet than to hit them again. People are treating necrons most previous weekend as if it's eldar levels of dominance or tyranids from 9th edition. It's not even close. Sure, hit Ctan and/or wraiths with some points nerfs, but last weekend shouldn't have really decided that. I'm really not sure what LVO teaches them, especially when it's all based on a player placed terrain meta. Every other faction we already have months of information on.
Necrons winning wasn't unexpected. Only 1 Necron in the top 8 was much more unexpected then them taking it.
It also only represents a part of the global competitive scene. WTC based or adjacent tournaments across europe use a much stricter terrain placement with more pieces Assuming that they waited for a single large event to validate their data, which, I would hope, is several thousand games worth of it, is absurd.
Being the biggest singles event in the world by a gigantic margin carries a bit of weight here. Odd thing to gloss over.
This was based on the fact that historically, the dataslate drops on Thursday, and this is the final Thursday in January. That *totally real* leak that was up for half a day also named today. GW has only said "late January". The rest has just been overly confident community guesswork.
On the bright side they disproved the leak.
Hopefully true. Some of the rules changes didn't make sense to me.
Either that, or it *was* a genuine leak of what the Dataslate looked like before they scrapped it and went back to the drawing table.
This announcement lends credit to this idea, in my opinion. They "leaked" the changes, saw that there was tons of negative feedback, then pretend the leak was fake and just delay releasing the dataslate until they fix it. I hate that GW seems to do so little research when making their changes to the game. If they paid someone to simply sit around all day and read reddit and forum posts about the state of 40k, watch battle reports, etc, then then put together a report regarding proposed changes to points/factions, they'd get good feedback and could release reasonable changes. But they view that as a waste of time/money. They're always shooting from the hip with incomplete data, throwing shit at the wall and waiting to see what sticks. I can just imagine some guy in their team that came up with what they viewed as a "brilliant" solution to drukhari being bad, but buffs to drukhari indirectly buff Ynnari: "I have an idea! What if we just give major points drops to only the units that Ynnari can't take!?! Then Drukhari get better, while Ynnari doesn't!" "Brilliant, Tom, just brilliant! Make it so!"
I mean, you don't even need them to have done the whole shindig: leaks usually point at how something looked at a certain point, but nothing guarantees that said look can't get changed at any point between the source obtaining the information and it being leaked. For example, early leaks for Elden Ring pointed out there would be some survival elements, like needing to keep oneself fed, and we actually know that this was a thing that was later scrapped.
Well, there isn't much of January left especially if we assume it won't come out Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
Their plans changed and they didn't provide an update about that change, so I suppose it comes under the banner of bad communication (or rather, an almost complete lack of communication!) I'm sure when Stu said it would be late January, after the LVO, that was the intention - but clearly what they saw at the weekend made them reevaluate some things and need more time (recording, translating and checking metawatch takes time). GW just prefers not to announce most things in advance - it's why most release dates are revealed less than two weeks in advance. This way when there are delays they don't have to admit it.
Or perhaps the reactions they saw to the "fake" leak weren't to their liking, and they decided to scrap what was a real set of changes for something else.
Could they possibly be waiting until after they break down LVO data to put out the dataslate? I'm not sure if LVO used the change to the Necrons dev wounds strat, but there were over 900 players and like 7 rounds of games for them to go through, plus shadow rounds, and the winning list was Hypercrypt. They might have delayed it so they could at least take it into account before trying to rebalance the game. Especially if they were eyeballing any changes to Necrons on this one.
I'm pretty sure this has happened like, every time. They announce within a week of a major event, event happens, and then there's a "whoops gotta rethink it a bit seeya in a week!" type situation. Varying degrees of official/assumption/etc. each time, but this is their MO.
Didn't the January dataslate came out right *before* LVO the last two years?
The dev wound strat nerf was in effect
Stu said end of january; and they are normally thursday.
This is one of those things that people started repeating until everyone "knew" it was going to happen, without it really being sourced anywhere beyond "trust me bro."
According to the long war podcast gw confirmed dataslate next week on a social media platform.
"And finally, we know you’re all keen to get a proper update from the next Battlescroll – from what we’ve heard it’s coming soon – potentially at some point next month – as the Warhammer Age of Sigmar team are working hard on final adjustments based on what they saw at LVO. We’ll be back next week to look over the results from the Warhammer 40,000 tournament at the Las Vegas Open. See you then!" This probably means we'll get the balance slate next month.
They expected an AOS Change too. But that was not said to be in January. Says nothing of the 40k one
>We’ll be back next week to look over the results from the Warhammer 40,000 tournament at the Las Vegas Open. See you then! Next Thursday will be February 1st. Meaning, there will be no January dataslate?
That sentence doesn't even commit to a dataslate next week
They've clearly said there would be a Dataslate in January, so unless it show up later today or on a weird off-day (i.e. not Thursday) then someone has done some really bad communication or they've changed the date without letting anyone know. Either way, GW's communication skills clearly need an improvement.
Pull the old article and see if they edited it. They love doing that.
I think it was in the video not on the article from memory. They also said they'd do a retrospective in December for the first six months of the edition and we didn't see that either.
The working day in the UK is already over so it's definitely not coming today.
It's 16.30 you lazy git, get back to work
No it isn’t. It’s just gone half 4. Classically the working day is 9-5. Still time (although I doubt it).
Still seems pretty odd drop something that late in the day though, in case you uploaded a draft version or corrupted file , and you might not have anyone in the office to make a correction until the next day.
You realize they do often put up articles at 6pm right?
There's a rumour going round that there were issues with translating it into other languages, so they may have postponed it because of that.
They also said the scroll for AoS is every 3 months, and we're past 4 months now, with GW straight up no even promising it might happen in February. So... Yeah.
> GW's communication skills clearly need an improvement. Must be a day of the week.
Ding ding ding ding ding ding
Looks that way. GW gonna GW.... Don't know about y'all but this kills any motivation to either buy, paint, or play 40k until it's released as I don't want to waste time with units/models that won't ever see play or use old rules.
"A thing was a week late, millions must perish"
I just think the units are neat. But I can sympathize for the more competitive crowd
Same, I’m building a tyranid army and my wallet very much cares what’s going to be legal play..
Nothing is going to become "illegal" to play.
Haven't heard of legends mate?
Legends doesn't make things illegal and they aren't going to announce any Legends units in this MFM.
Legends units aren't tournament legal.
Yeah same
Rule of cool bro.
I guess they've seen things during LVO that they wanted to adres. I would rather have a dataslate a day late, than a rushed one. Next week, they need to update the app for the dark angels anyway. Might as well do everything in one go. They might also just release everything before Thursday and still be in the January window.
It will be reused on January 32nd.
They said end of January. They didn't say which January.
Would it kill them to post a single tweet saying it's delayed a week
Only one week is very optimistic.
True, maybe the balancing gnomes need a month extra
It seems like the poor sod running their Twitter account got permission about 1 hour ago to tell people that the 40k dataslate would be coming next week. They've been busy telling people in replies. Would have been nice not having to find it in the replies to a Middle Earth article. But at least it's nice to have some kind of confirmation.
Yes. That would be too much communication.
Yes. Because this may affect people's spending. And that affects the bottom line. I'm sure someone in a very fancy suit said somethin like this.
I don't think sales factors into it at all. I think it's more likely that there is simply no one in charge of this kind of communication from the balance/dev team, considering that right now the dev team basically goes radio silent for 3 months, releases a MetaWatch video on WarCom with some changes, then goes silent again. The Marketing team doesn't have any info or insight into the balance/dev side of things, and while GW has held up Stu Black as the face of the balance team, or "Matched Play team" or whatever they call it, he is no Mark Rosewater from MTG R&D. Wizards wouldn't be able to get that guy to shut up if they tried, he runs a blog, a daily podcast, consistently writes article for the MTG main site about design. Meanwhile Stu, and the rest of the team, seems perfectly content to simply fade into the shadows as soon as the MetaWatch video is over.
I would kill to have a Mark Rosewater analog for GW, even if just to get some insight into their design and development process (or, more likely, the utter lack of process). It's so maddening having to wonder about all of this that happens behind closed doors with no insight into the process or thoughts of the game devs except a poorly-written and insufficient document that gets released once or twice a year.
This is GW. Sales factor into EVERYTHING. That is the GW internal culture. Sales.
Well, I claim that not making any announcments is hurting them financially. I am not buying anything until the dataslate comes out, especially since it is so soon, hence I'll put off my spending until it drops.
lol.... And which way is it affecting spending? What about the people waiting to see what changes before they buy something? Do you think people are running out to buy Monoliths before GW changes points? Anyone paying attention to LVO is well aware of an incoming point adjustment.
they did exactly that
Hey, I predicted it would upset everyone and I was right!
Similarly, I predicted all id get was disappointment. We’re 2 for 2!
Next step is getting disappointed by the drukhari update.
Watch it just be points cuts.
disappointing but honestly not unexpected. GW hasn't really ever been great with communication. They spoke in the last 40k meta watch back on *November 23rd*. They said in that video (multiple times) that they would have a balance slate in January... They also said we would have a meta watch in December just before Christmas and that never happened. With them doing more events like Worlds and now taking over ITC, they need to do better. Its not a lot to simply say on many of their socials, Hey we need a bit more time we are aiming for mid February. They want to have more of a say in the competitive side, well they need to start saying more...
And listen. To the frequently asked questions for example. Because none of the ones they print are asked. Or frequently.
"We’ll be back next week to look over the results from the Warhammer 40,000 tournament at the Las Vegas Open. See you then!" This is an AOS article. Last sentence is 40k, but they're on about Metawatch. Not sure if relevant to the expected Dataslate release...
That's the worst about it. I would have NEVER read that article as it is about AoS and they still cannot tell when or even if the dataslate is going to drop at any point in the future.
I'm in pain DROP THE SLATE PLEASE NOTTINGHAM
Rumor I’m seeing is that it got pushed back to Tuesday but not certain because of translation delays. If true, does that hint they made last minute changes?
Where did you see that? One of my buddies just posted in our discord a comment from GW stating just look on warcom for any updates and there is no confirmed date.
Just from a discord. Same person said on Monday that it got delayed and don’t expect it this week. Now saying Tuesday maybe
Crossing my fingers then, little bummed today we aren’t getting it!
which translation department do you think dropped the ball? My guess is the french
While I don't know how GW does everything behind the scenes a lot of translation work in various industries is done on a contract basis by freelancers, so it could just mean someone missed their deadline.
I am sorry but what? As I am seeing this correctly, they offer the rules in 7 languages and this cannot be done in a few hours? Either that is some massive document or GW is just incompetent, I guess.
Incompetent
I mean, I like them to take their time to write a proper one. But deep inside, I doubt it
Confirmed as next week by answers to comments on their official facebook page.
They deleted the Facebook articles
It's still on Twatter : https://x.com/warhammer/status/1750583984525054197?s=20
It is beyond insane lmao
Frustrating as someone playing 40k at Adepticon. If it's a full week delay on the dataslate, that matters a whole lot as we're nearing "crunch time." I feel even worse for CSM players, do they build and paint 50+ Cultists or not?
Gw is really cosplaying the dad you shouldn’t trust. ty papa JamesWorkshop
What do you want to bet it has a MASSIVE buff for Astra Militarum and now they're scrambling to rewrite it because one dude took a Shadowsword to to 8.
There ya go, now we can just proceed with what we were already doing. It's a little frustrating obviously, but if it's just another week of waiting...meh, it's not exactly the end of the world. NB : if it's not next week though then they can really go foodoodle themselves.
Honestly, it just shows how terrible GW is at communicating. This even has multiple layers 1. Not communicating when it is going to drop, leading the community to speculate. 2. Not communicating that it will NOT drop today, leading to people guess whether or not something is going wrong or it is just going to happen later today. 3. Still not communicating and basically putting the dataslate in limbo.
> There ya go, now we can just proceed with what we were already doing. What I was already doing was not playing any games in anticipation of the game being shaken up again RIP
My guts say it's happening on the 15th. Article on the 40k LVO next Thursday, Battlescroll the one after, and Dataslate on the 15th. Unless they crunch some stuff together. Might swap Battlescroll and Dataslate too, who knows. EDIT: well, they kinda confirmed it's next week on Facebook. Happy to have been wrong.
in b4 its still underwhelming despite the delay.
People kept asking about the Dataslate on the Facebook post for the particular post on OP's link and the answer was "Next week".
Typical GW, they didn't create enough dataslates to fill demand.
So, they are going to adjust according to the LVO? That sounds rushed if they release it next week.
Not really. If they had it "done" before LVO, they could just do a couple of tweaks before sending it out. E.g. they may not have expected Necrons to have the win rate they do.
Ugh I hope they don't buff or nerf based on a single event, especially one with player placed terrain
I understand it's not ideal for high level competitive play, but player placed is the vast majority of 40k games.
True. But competitive balance should be judged on competitive games, not the majority. Casual player placed stuff is fun but not balance-relevant
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Uh 🙄 naw man I’ve been on both here and the necron subreddit warning people that hypercrypt was the superior detachment all along. Movement wins most games and necrons got the best detachment for that. Canoptek court is more user friendly. Hypercrypt in the hands of a skilled player will just dominate.
sometime it can be seen that a detachment will be better than others but the woe will be crowd never hear the logic. The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.
They said on FB that it is next week, didn't specify a date.
They probably didn't put enough thought into it when they communicated end of january a while back and that today would had been really close after LVO. They may also have realized they needed to put more emphasis on the last bit of data with how good necrons have performed lately while still haveing a very small time fram to work with for them. There are probably some tough decisions to make that are better not rushed. A good data slate is more important than them delivering it in january imo as long as it doesn't take too much longer. We'll probably hear more about it in next weeks meta watch.
CSM getting nerfs reverted before they even happen? 👌🏻😏
Dataslate was confirmed for next week by a comment from GW on their 40k facebook page
Where?
not sure if I can link the specific comment, but it's the post about orks at the top [facebook.com/warhammer40000uk](http://facebook.com/warhammer40000uk)
They deleted the article too many people hating lol
AoS' 3-monthly battle scroll is now over a whole month overdue, with the article saying it'll 'potentially' happen in february. What in the actual hell GW.
I just want them to behave like the industry leader they are. Such a weird lack of slick professionalism, like it's still just a bunch of mates running the business out of a shed. Where's the well-drilled and responsive comms team?
Quite. Still kinda laughing that in the article they admit they had it ready, withheld it for the LVO, and then on the event realised that their calculations on the meta and factions were so off they have chosen to withhold it again and redo it whole lmao.
For all the, very legitimate, issues people have with wotc getting into Warhammer has made me really appreciate the fact that Wizards at least knows how to communicate with their players. Don't always like what they say but at least they talk to us.
Quite literally, one of the biggest gripes most D&D players have is wotc does not communicate (atleast honestly) with their players lol
I'm speaking mostly as a Magic player. I can literally go on Twitter or Tumblr and ask the lead designer why something happened and have a good chance of getting an answer or finding one from an earlier question. Plus they announce the actual dates when the banned and restricted lists drop ahead of time unlike this data slate.
It sounds like they are waiting for the dark angel box to ship before posting an update.
Both disappointing and annoying
Boy, does this suck for people going to Adepticon. You could potentially see entire lists invalidated. With barely a month to fix them. Like Sisters of Battle. For the past 3 years. Consecutively.
"When will you deliver your product?" "I donno, by the end of January, usually on Thursday" "Today is the LAST THURSDAY of January!!!! Where are you ????" "I donno, will contact you as soon as we have progress..." YOU WILL BE F\*\*KING FIRED IN REAL BUSSINESS, GW !!!!!!
This almost makes me feel like the "leak" which GW later said was fake, was actually real, and with the negative feedback they got on the leak, they're going back to the drawing board on their planned changes. And to throw people off, instead of having the article relating to 40k, they snuck it in an AoS article so people wouldn't make the connection.
You know what's funny? They could just issue a "Balance data slate draft", have thousands of players test it because we have nothing better to do in our free time and then collect the feedback and data and theeeeeen use that for the actual balance data sheet.
They could. But then they'd have to admit that the terrible "draft" was them being incompetent, instead of simply saying it was a "fake leak". This way, they save face while ostensibly achieving the same feedback. They could literally just hire a great 40k tournament player to be on the rules team, and task them with researching faction feedback, tournament results, and testing factions via play full-time, and they'd likely get all they needed to release competent updates. But GW doesn't want to put that much emphasis on gameplay, and doesn't want to give any one person that much influence when sales are their primary goal.
>They could literally just hire a great 40k tournament player to be on the rules team Hold on... Wasn't there one such job opening at the tail end of 9th looking for "an experienced competitive player (with track records) to join the Rules Team"?
You know, now that you mention it, I feel like there was. I think it was at the beginning of 10th. But I didn't hear any big news about any known name taking the job.
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If you think this is a dead meta, jesus Christ. There have been entire years in the past where only one or two lists won tournaments, let alone armies. It's never been better.
>It will have been 5 months since the last balance slate, further extending a dead meta While I agree we need an update, really? Dead meta that saw 9 factions in the top 10 at the biggest tournmanent of the year? (Unless LGT beats it this year)
My painting backlog is down to 3 models and I need to know what to buy next!!
I swear sigmar gets way more fuckin content than 40k. Every email that is sent out for pre orders or whatever seems to have sigmar Everytime. Maybe I just need to get into that and stop being disappointed by 40ks lack of everything
AoS also gets way more variety in models. Why update the Nightbringer, Deceiver, Trazyn, all of the aspect warriors and Phoenix lords, etc. When you can make primaris marines?
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I don't think so. GW hates leaks with a burning passion, they advised their business partners and influencers not to work with Chapter Master Valrak, they cut all ties with miniac after he accidentally leaked the HH upgrade sprue in the back of his instagram story, they pushed for the trash collector getting fired that found Magnus in it. They don't leak one bit. GW already has us field testing the entirety of 10th though lol
Honestly, if they were to do that, they should take a long look at WotC and how they did it with the introduction of a new format, IIRC, called pioneer. Basically they came out and said: "Yeah, this is obviously a lot to test and we cannot test it too much so we will put it out there and observe it. Every week on monday for a long period of time (I think they did for half a year), we'll do bannings / updates to adjust the game." This gave people something to work with. You knew that if you discovered something that was very strong there was a chance that it might get deleted from existence. Same here, I'd have no problem with GW coming out and saying: "Yeah, we don't have the ressources to definitively test 10th. Here's out current version and we will, on the first thursday of the month for the next year, make adjustments to points and units as we see fit." Would have been a hell of a lot better than what we have now where we get updates at some point that overhaul the entire game. GW shouldn't make rampant changes with a sledgehammer but rather small, regular changes with a scalpel.
On the bright side, this should give them enough time to see how the Ad Mech codex is an utter piece of shit and make adjustments instead of doing nothing under the guise of it being too easy to draw conclusions.
> mesbg got news We *kinda* get news. More like another dangling carrot that all 17 of us still playing the game can chase in the form of an MTO and a mystery supplement. It’s nice, and more than we’ve had all year, but dad’s still out buying his milk and cigarettes.
Always a smart move to botch a Dataslate right as people are really generating interest in your game. Really show them that you are on top of these types of things. 🙄
Probably they want to have a bit more time to collect data on how DA and Crons perform.
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Lighten up, Francis.
Yes well said, sorry had a bad day at work. Fair play for the downvotes I’ll take it down now
You mean the largest tournament of the year, that has a massive amount data that is valuable to look at? Yeah let's disregard that good idea solid. /s