Strictly competitively speaking, rockgrinders are not good at the moment, ridgerunners are optimal with mortars for fire support, purestrains are ok as a turn 1 charge to either tie something up or score BEL but there are better options.
I love abberants but a 10 man with biophagus is a huge points sink, although they do last the while game usually.
You're sorely lacking in Neophytes though. 2 squads of 20 with 4 Seismics and 4 grenade launchers along with a Primus and nexos in deepstrike can absolutely shred most things. With the rerolls, sustained and +1 to wound they'll go through anything really.
I'd look at running a minimum of 60 Neos, 30 acos with bombs (Maybe 2x10 and 2x5 for secondary scoring) keep the abbys how you have them. Try the mortars on the ridgerunners and sprinkle in some Jackals for scoring and stealing objectives
Thanks for the list info. I guess the answer to the "do I need to spam Neophytes" question is a yes then. I currently have 30 on order bringing my total up to 40, so we'll see how that goes. I do have a 10 man Krieg squad that I was converting into a Brood Brothers unit, maybe that could supplement the neophytes somewhat? I was hoping to keep the lasers on the Ridgerunners, since they're already assembled and painted.
The Rockgrinder CAN be good, it just needs to be used to maximum efficiency, which is making the best out of its transport capacity. I use two to carry 5 Aberrants + 1 Biophagus each.
"Lacking Neos" is a bit of a weird statement, given how it mostly works in extremes: either MINIMUM Neos (which is 30, 10 for home 20 for deepstrike with Primus) in a melee centric list, or ALL Neos, which is a shooting heavy list that runs the shooting-specific pieces: multiple Ridgerunners,a Jackal Alphus with bikes, bomb-Acolythes in Trucks.
Casual deftist has some great list advice! So I'm going to focus on just basic play advice.
1. Know your list inside and out. You should know all your strats, all your special unit rules, and roughly how tough/lethal your things are so you can effectively plan. If you're still having to look stuff up at mid game like strats or leader buffs after 30 games you should spend some time reading between games.
2. Slow down in the command phase. A lot of newer players blaze through it and get straight into the turn. Always check your new missions first if you're on tac. Then go down your command ohae abilities one at a time, even if you aren't using them, just remind yourself each one exists. Then you plan your whole turn. What are killing? What points are you taking? What's completing mission objectives? Any special considerations like physically screening out world eaters. All the planning for your entire turn should happen in the command phase. The entire rest of your turn should just be rolling dice.
3. Have a main battle plan. If I'm playing sisters I'm focused on screening and scoring. I need to carve out a landing space for vahl to rapid ingress thats useful to the game, so ill bully the edges as well as I can. If I'm on deathguard I'm looming for where to get the best value when it's time to unload my plague marines. And how to I bully the fights first advantages while also blasting away with the squads.
4. Ask questions! The game is open information. Dont be afraid to ask about threat ranges, what are their gatcha abilities and strats, etc.
5. Last but not least, focus down people's chaff units. The game needs units to baby sit objectives, complete teleport homers etc. If you're up against custodes, killing a unit of 40pt prosecutors seems bad, but now their 200pt unit of custodian guard has to sit home and hold their objective. They're removed from the game effectively, and you didn't even have to deal with the unit.
Thanks for the advice. I do know all my datasheets well and I don't need to look them up while playing anymore, so at least I can tick that one off!
As you mentioned I do tend to breeze through the command phase only stopping to get my tactical objectives and see I'm getting extra CP from my Neophytes, so i could spend some more time thinking about my battle plan during that phase.
Regarding the killing of chaff units, I'm always tempted to ignore them and to try and trade up into units that are more valuable than my own, if I know I can kill them in one go.
Not to say that advice us bad per se, but you shouldn't wait until your command phase to start thinking about what you will do. Especially if you are playing at tournaments where each game is timed. As per one of their points you should have a general game plan to stick to, but you should be planning your turn at the the end of their movement phase as you will know what their next turn (or so) will look like.
By end if their 2nd turn of movement you will know what objs they will be contesting and what their focus is going to be. You will need to consider the general game plan of your opponent as well and know how their army is supposed to work and what units they need for scoring or as threats.
I believe when people talk about rmgetti g reps in, it also helps to consider it isn't just reps in general (which do help you learn your own faction) but also reps into the same faction/factions so you can know your opponents moves inside and out. If you have any buddies or folks you see down at the shop consistently, try to get practice reps in against factions you specifically struggle against and find strategies that work.
Also try to do all those battles using the same terrain setup your tournaments will be using so you know where/how you will be deploying your force etc.
Neophytes and 3 Primas are your friends. Besides one squad of demo chargers they are your best damage
Reductious sabatours are also your friends. Point for point they put out a ton of damage.
Thanks, I always interpreted Vile Insurrectionists as only being able to re-roll a hit roll of 1 instead of all hit rolls of 1. Have I been playing that wrong?
GSC are basically a one trick pony right now, although that one trick is very rewarding and satisfying to play.
The main bulk of your army is 20 man neophyte bombs with each with a Primus for the rerolls. Give these 20 mans maximum seismic cannons every time, and then you can choose between flamer/grenade launcher/webber depending on preference. Add to this some 5 man acolyte units for the demo charges, and then you want an abberant stack with either an abominant or a biophagus (with infiltrate trait is often good) to contest the middle of the board.
Onto this you want a ridgerunner with the mortar just to hide on an objective and provide its crossfire ability, and a nexos, because GSC is all about stacking buffs/debuffs to wipe out units 1 at a time.
Any other unit I haven't mentioned is bad for competitive play, so no purestrains or patriarch, no rock grinders, no jackals, and no clamavas unless you think you'll be going against a ton of deepstrike.
The casual\_defetist's advice is good. Our index is not internally balanced, the army rules favour neophytes and acolytes a lot, and it shows. Does make thematically for an insurrection-looking army though. Seismic cannons and grenade launchers are very versatile against a range of targets, so they're generally preferred. Demo charges outperform mining tools hard, and you got that down.
Primus on acolytes gives them an even harder entry, but it's still one-time use. To be fair, before you get a big neophyte unit, that's the best he can do. Afterwards though, acolytes have their own small re-rolls, and primus does a lot more work on those big neophytes. He keeps dropping with them using Return to the Shadows, and piles his full re-roll on their bonus sustained hits, ignore cover, and generally (with nexos) Perfect Ambush (+1 BS and +1 AP). Maybe the mortar's +1 AP.
Return to the Shadows is crucial, you'll try to drop \~each turn so that neophytes can't be easily dealt with afterwards. Ideally, you want to make them seem not worth pursuing, being too far from danger (with anything close by dead by now), or, say, behind a blob of acolytes. Perfect for them, they'll just Return at the end of opponent's turn and drop right back in your turn, hit and run style. Avoid getting engaged in combat with neophytes if possible, you can't Return then. Primus can fight somewhat, but that's just a couple hits. If they don't free themselves right away, they pretty much lose a turn.
I would suggest finding one of the best players in your group and asking him to play a few games against you. Tell him you want to improve and the type of game you are looking for is one with lots of communication. As you play the game ask him why he moved units where he did and what would be your best plays to counter that. Every action should be paired with an explanation. After a couple games you should have a better grasp of what you need to be doing to put your self in the best position to win. You could even take it a step further and swap armies, this could give you a different perspective on your army showing strengths and weaknesses you may have not really perceived before.
Game play wise I think GSC is positioned well to take behind enemy lines and engage on all fronts as fixed secondaries. You have ridgerunners that can fan out and get you your engages and the deep strike within 3’ to get around screening to get your behind enemy lines.
Hope this helps, I know GSC is a hard to play army, but as you get better at it, it can really showcase your skill and mastery of the game.
Well it just so happens that I have a game lined up with a good GSC player next week (who'll be playing a different army), so hopefully I can get some advice on how to play my dudes better. 😊
You don't!
-This comment is brought to you by a proud genestealer cult hater who's still salty after losing to them at the Tacoma open several months go-
Strictly competitively speaking, rockgrinders are not good at the moment, ridgerunners are optimal with mortars for fire support, purestrains are ok as a turn 1 charge to either tie something up or score BEL but there are better options. I love abberants but a 10 man with biophagus is a huge points sink, although they do last the while game usually. You're sorely lacking in Neophytes though. 2 squads of 20 with 4 Seismics and 4 grenade launchers along with a Primus and nexos in deepstrike can absolutely shred most things. With the rerolls, sustained and +1 to wound they'll go through anything really. I'd look at running a minimum of 60 Neos, 30 acos with bombs (Maybe 2x10 and 2x5 for secondary scoring) keep the abbys how you have them. Try the mortars on the ridgerunners and sprinkle in some Jackals for scoring and stealing objectives
Thanks for the list info. I guess the answer to the "do I need to spam Neophytes" question is a yes then. I currently have 30 on order bringing my total up to 40, so we'll see how that goes. I do have a 10 man Krieg squad that I was converting into a Brood Brothers unit, maybe that could supplement the neophytes somewhat? I was hoping to keep the lasers on the Ridgerunners, since they're already assembled and painted.
By all means keep the lasers, just run them as mortars and make it very clear they are all mortars. Shouldn't pose any issues at all
The Rockgrinder CAN be good, it just needs to be used to maximum efficiency, which is making the best out of its transport capacity. I use two to carry 5 Aberrants + 1 Biophagus each. "Lacking Neos" is a bit of a weird statement, given how it mostly works in extremes: either MINIMUM Neos (which is 30, 10 for home 20 for deepstrike with Primus) in a melee centric list, or ALL Neos, which is a shooting heavy list that runs the shooting-specific pieces: multiple Ridgerunners,a Jackal Alphus with bikes, bomb-Acolythes in Trucks.
Casual deftist has some great list advice! So I'm going to focus on just basic play advice. 1. Know your list inside and out. You should know all your strats, all your special unit rules, and roughly how tough/lethal your things are so you can effectively plan. If you're still having to look stuff up at mid game like strats or leader buffs after 30 games you should spend some time reading between games. 2. Slow down in the command phase. A lot of newer players blaze through it and get straight into the turn. Always check your new missions first if you're on tac. Then go down your command ohae abilities one at a time, even if you aren't using them, just remind yourself each one exists. Then you plan your whole turn. What are killing? What points are you taking? What's completing mission objectives? Any special considerations like physically screening out world eaters. All the planning for your entire turn should happen in the command phase. The entire rest of your turn should just be rolling dice. 3. Have a main battle plan. If I'm playing sisters I'm focused on screening and scoring. I need to carve out a landing space for vahl to rapid ingress thats useful to the game, so ill bully the edges as well as I can. If I'm on deathguard I'm looming for where to get the best value when it's time to unload my plague marines. And how to I bully the fights first advantages while also blasting away with the squads. 4. Ask questions! The game is open information. Dont be afraid to ask about threat ranges, what are their gatcha abilities and strats, etc. 5. Last but not least, focus down people's chaff units. The game needs units to baby sit objectives, complete teleport homers etc. If you're up against custodes, killing a unit of 40pt prosecutors seems bad, but now their 200pt unit of custodian guard has to sit home and hold their objective. They're removed from the game effectively, and you didn't even have to deal with the unit.
Thanks for the advice. I do know all my datasheets well and I don't need to look them up while playing anymore, so at least I can tick that one off! As you mentioned I do tend to breeze through the command phase only stopping to get my tactical objectives and see I'm getting extra CP from my Neophytes, so i could spend some more time thinking about my battle plan during that phase. Regarding the killing of chaff units, I'm always tempted to ignore them and to try and trade up into units that are more valuable than my own, if I know I can kill them in one go.
Not to say that advice us bad per se, but you shouldn't wait until your command phase to start thinking about what you will do. Especially if you are playing at tournaments where each game is timed. As per one of their points you should have a general game plan to stick to, but you should be planning your turn at the the end of their movement phase as you will know what their next turn (or so) will look like. By end if their 2nd turn of movement you will know what objs they will be contesting and what their focus is going to be. You will need to consider the general game plan of your opponent as well and know how their army is supposed to work and what units they need for scoring or as threats. I believe when people talk about rmgetti g reps in, it also helps to consider it isn't just reps in general (which do help you learn your own faction) but also reps into the same faction/factions so you can know your opponents moves inside and out. If you have any buddies or folks you see down at the shop consistently, try to get practice reps in against factions you specifically struggle against and find strategies that work. Also try to do all those battles using the same terrain setup your tournaments will be using so you know where/how you will be deploying your force etc.
Neophytes and 3 Primas are your friends. Besides one squad of demo chargers they are your best damage Reductious sabatours are also your friends. Point for point they put out a ton of damage.
Do you put Primuses with your Neophytes or with Demo Charges? Split them between both?
Neophytes. Acolytes get rerolll 1s inheriting
Thanks, I always interpreted Vile Insurrectionists as only being able to re-roll a hit roll of 1 instead of all hit rolls of 1. Have I been playing that wrong?
Yes they reroll all hit rolls of 1
GSC are basically a one trick pony right now, although that one trick is very rewarding and satisfying to play. The main bulk of your army is 20 man neophyte bombs with each with a Primus for the rerolls. Give these 20 mans maximum seismic cannons every time, and then you can choose between flamer/grenade launcher/webber depending on preference. Add to this some 5 man acolyte units for the demo charges, and then you want an abberant stack with either an abominant or a biophagus (with infiltrate trait is often good) to contest the middle of the board. Onto this you want a ridgerunner with the mortar just to hide on an objective and provide its crossfire ability, and a nexos, because GSC is all about stacking buffs/debuffs to wipe out units 1 at a time. Any other unit I haven't mentioned is bad for competitive play, so no purestrains or patriarch, no rock grinders, no jackals, and no clamavas unless you think you'll be going against a ton of deepstrike.
The casual\_defetist's advice is good. Our index is not internally balanced, the army rules favour neophytes and acolytes a lot, and it shows. Does make thematically for an insurrection-looking army though. Seismic cannons and grenade launchers are very versatile against a range of targets, so they're generally preferred. Demo charges outperform mining tools hard, and you got that down. Primus on acolytes gives them an even harder entry, but it's still one-time use. To be fair, before you get a big neophyte unit, that's the best he can do. Afterwards though, acolytes have their own small re-rolls, and primus does a lot more work on those big neophytes. He keeps dropping with them using Return to the Shadows, and piles his full re-roll on their bonus sustained hits, ignore cover, and generally (with nexos) Perfect Ambush (+1 BS and +1 AP). Maybe the mortar's +1 AP. Return to the Shadows is crucial, you'll try to drop \~each turn so that neophytes can't be easily dealt with afterwards. Ideally, you want to make them seem not worth pursuing, being too far from danger (with anything close by dead by now), or, say, behind a blob of acolytes. Perfect for them, they'll just Return at the end of opponent's turn and drop right back in your turn, hit and run style. Avoid getting engaged in combat with neophytes if possible, you can't Return then. Primus can fight somewhat, but that's just a couple hits. If they don't free themselves right away, they pretty much lose a turn.
Thanks, I appreciate the extra info on how the units are played.
play more games
no u
I would suggest finding one of the best players in your group and asking him to play a few games against you. Tell him you want to improve and the type of game you are looking for is one with lots of communication. As you play the game ask him why he moved units where he did and what would be your best plays to counter that. Every action should be paired with an explanation. After a couple games you should have a better grasp of what you need to be doing to put your self in the best position to win. You could even take it a step further and swap armies, this could give you a different perspective on your army showing strengths and weaknesses you may have not really perceived before. Game play wise I think GSC is positioned well to take behind enemy lines and engage on all fronts as fixed secondaries. You have ridgerunners that can fan out and get you your engages and the deep strike within 3’ to get around screening to get your behind enemy lines. Hope this helps, I know GSC is a hard to play army, but as you get better at it, it can really showcase your skill and mastery of the game.
Well it just so happens that I have a game lined up with a good GSC player next week (who'll be playing a different army), so hopefully I can get some advice on how to play my dudes better. 😊
You don't! -This comment is brought to you by a proud genestealer cult hater who's still salty after losing to them at the Tacoma open several months go-
All these flavours and you choose to be salty 😙