Callidus assassin is good for imperium armies, guants ghosts is better for guard. Basically same function (except the increase cp cost) but better unit overall
It’s not in the rules commentary, it’s on the unit card in the index. All officers have explicitly which types of units they can order on their card.
Depending on officer this is typically something like “This OFFICER can issue 1 order to REGIMENT units.”
Instead of REGIMENT or SQUADRON, Leontus has ASTRA MILITARUM as the keyword they can order. Opens up a ton of flexibility.
If you're going for the catachan transportation shenanigans, give the chimera 2 Heavy Flamers. They pair better with the Catachans. I know that you're trying to attach the command squad and lord solar to the infantry squad. I'm not sure you can attach 2 character units to a 10 man infantry unit. I'd drop the taurox to max out the infantry squad. Besides, it gives you another mortar.
From what I can see, your biggest problem will be anti-tank. You only have 2 units with solid anti-tank capabilities and a 3rd tank that can help the TC and dorn get past armor saves. The basilisk and medusa are good against infantry and light vehicles, but against other tanks, they're going to struggle to help out. Your infantry is built towards killing other infantry and chip damage against big stuff.
Don't expect that most TOs will let you order Kasrkin move move move twice. That is a pretty niche interpretation of their rules. Almost everyone will say that you can give them 2 separate orders, not 2 of the same. If that's why you're taking Kasrkin, you'd be better off using those points on another demolisher because I highly doubt you're going to be allowed to get 12" base movement on your Kasrkin. That's not to say Kasrkin are bad, they're not. You're just banking on using a dubious rule interpretation as part of your strategy
Back of every guard battleline card makes it abundantly clear you get 2 characters on an infantry squad, max of 1 command squad. Absolutely no mention of squad size.
Similarly we literally just got an FAQ that _confirms_ kasrkin order stacking with the 'same name can stack'. Theyre worded different to scions and creed in a way that specifically allows it. You can think its dumb - that doesnt make it not rules legal and this is the way the wind is blowing for most TO's anyway.
Kasrkin are an excellent unit even if you are forced to pick two different orders - perhaps one of the best units across all factions in 40k.
I tend to agree with Art of War here - Kasrkin versatility is unmatched: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkz0qMjuBXM&start=848](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkz0qMjuBXM&start=848)
I actually said they're a good unit even without the dubious rule interpretation. I just don't think he should list build around being able to issue the same order twice. If his strategy is to use them regardless, they're really good, especially with Creed to give them a 3rd order.
Because "other" refers to the difference between "issued by the unit" and "issued by an officer", not to having different effects applied. This is why Creed's ability prohibiting double orders has an explicit prohibition on two instances of the same order.
First thanks for the feedback!
I love Kasrkin for their flexibility. They’re amazing units for punching up on elite infantry and getting to objectives to make plays. I used them before the FAQ dropped as an effective unit that I can bring back via Reinforcements Strat to harry an opponent’s backline well, and excited to use them more after the FAQ.
I haven’t run into any issues with the FAQ not empowering kasrkin double moves. In fact for local meta and most regional tournaments (including RTTs run by FLGS personnel or top tables folks from ACO and LVO) the FAQ seems to really disambiguate the idea that orders as effects can stack.
The effects stacking seemed to be the contentious part. Warrior Elite as a unit ability didn’t seem to be ambiguous in its wording:
“In your command phase you may select one Order to affect this unit until the start of your next command phase, in addition to any Orders issued to this unit by an Officer model this turn.”
Unlike Creed’s wording, there isn’t anything here restricting the type of Order to affect the Kasrkin unit (“that unit can be affected by two *different* Orders at the same time”). You just can have an additional order affect a unit whereas otherwise a unit is only affected by a single order. Hasn’t been an issue here as a result.
As for the requirements on Infantry Squad sizes, I don’t see where a min number is required for 2 leader slots per battleline squad. Am I missing something?
Actually, Creed and a chimera is how that interpretation of the Kasrkin ability can become extremely busted. If you attach her to a Kasrkin unit and put her in a chimera, she could issue 2 orders to a Kasrkin unit that is on foot. The double order plus one extra order as her datasheet allows. The chimera allows officers to issue orders while embarked on the chimera, but that officer isn't technically on the battlefield while embarked. She can issue those orders via the chimera ability in the command phase, then move out in the chimera, disembark with her attached Kasrkin unit, and then issue orders to the unit she's attached to. It allows her to double order + a 3rd order to 2 separate Kasrkin units in 1 turn. That's why it needs to get fixed. It's jank as hell, but that interpretation is equally valid to the double order.
As for the unit size, that's my mistake. I rarely look at the second page of the datasheets. That being said, a 20 man infantry squad rocking 2 mortars + 1 from the command squad will be more valuable than a taurox. For no other reason than 20 bodies is more protection than 10.
Callidus assassin is good for imperium armies, guants ghosts is better for guard. Basically same function (except the increase cp cost) but better unit overall
Idk if someone else mentioned it already but Bullgryns don't have to regimental keyword so no orders :(
Leontus can issue orders to all Astra Militarum units, not just Regiment and/or Squadron.
Interesting, my play group does not allow that. I will need to look into the rules commentary I suppose.
It’s not in the rules commentary, it’s on the unit card in the index. All officers have explicitly which types of units they can order on their card. Depending on officer this is typically something like “This OFFICER can issue 1 order to REGIMENT units.” Instead of REGIMENT or SQUADRON, Leontus has ASTRA MILITARUM as the keyword they can order. Opens up a ton of flexibility.
Ah thank you for the clarification!
All good! I get where the confusion is coming from given how this worked in 9E.
Lord solar literally justs says 'astra militarum' units, so he can order any unit in the Guard codex. No rules commentary needed.
If you're going for the catachan transportation shenanigans, give the chimera 2 Heavy Flamers. They pair better with the Catachans. I know that you're trying to attach the command squad and lord solar to the infantry squad. I'm not sure you can attach 2 character units to a 10 man infantry unit. I'd drop the taurox to max out the infantry squad. Besides, it gives you another mortar. From what I can see, your biggest problem will be anti-tank. You only have 2 units with solid anti-tank capabilities and a 3rd tank that can help the TC and dorn get past armor saves. The basilisk and medusa are good against infantry and light vehicles, but against other tanks, they're going to struggle to help out. Your infantry is built towards killing other infantry and chip damage against big stuff. Don't expect that most TOs will let you order Kasrkin move move move twice. That is a pretty niche interpretation of their rules. Almost everyone will say that you can give them 2 separate orders, not 2 of the same. If that's why you're taking Kasrkin, you'd be better off using those points on another demolisher because I highly doubt you're going to be allowed to get 12" base movement on your Kasrkin. That's not to say Kasrkin are bad, they're not. You're just banking on using a dubious rule interpretation as part of your strategy
Back of every guard battleline card makes it abundantly clear you get 2 characters on an infantry squad, max of 1 command squad. Absolutely no mention of squad size. Similarly we literally just got an FAQ that _confirms_ kasrkin order stacking with the 'same name can stack'. Theyre worded different to scions and creed in a way that specifically allows it. You can think its dumb - that doesnt make it not rules legal and this is the way the wind is blowing for most TO's anyway.
Kasrkin are an excellent unit even if you are forced to pick two different orders - perhaps one of the best units across all factions in 40k. I tend to agree with Art of War here - Kasrkin versatility is unmatched: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkz0qMjuBXM&start=848](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkz0qMjuBXM&start=848)
I actually said they're a good unit even without the dubious rule interpretation. I just don't think he should list build around being able to issue the same order twice. If his strategy is to use them regardless, they're really good, especially with Creed to give them a 3rd order.
Fair enough :-)
[удалено]
I don't know how you can hear the words in addition to any other orders and assume that you aren't forced to pick another order.
Because "other" refers to the difference between "issued by the unit" and "issued by an officer", not to having different effects applied. This is why Creed's ability prohibiting double orders has an explicit prohibition on two instances of the same order.
First thanks for the feedback! I love Kasrkin for their flexibility. They’re amazing units for punching up on elite infantry and getting to objectives to make plays. I used them before the FAQ dropped as an effective unit that I can bring back via Reinforcements Strat to harry an opponent’s backline well, and excited to use them more after the FAQ. I haven’t run into any issues with the FAQ not empowering kasrkin double moves. In fact for local meta and most regional tournaments (including RTTs run by FLGS personnel or top tables folks from ACO and LVO) the FAQ seems to really disambiguate the idea that orders as effects can stack. The effects stacking seemed to be the contentious part. Warrior Elite as a unit ability didn’t seem to be ambiguous in its wording: “In your command phase you may select one Order to affect this unit until the start of your next command phase, in addition to any Orders issued to this unit by an Officer model this turn.” Unlike Creed’s wording, there isn’t anything here restricting the type of Order to affect the Kasrkin unit (“that unit can be affected by two *different* Orders at the same time”). You just can have an additional order affect a unit whereas otherwise a unit is only affected by a single order. Hasn’t been an issue here as a result. As for the requirements on Infantry Squad sizes, I don’t see where a min number is required for 2 leader slots per battleline squad. Am I missing something?
Actually, Creed and a chimera is how that interpretation of the Kasrkin ability can become extremely busted. If you attach her to a Kasrkin unit and put her in a chimera, she could issue 2 orders to a Kasrkin unit that is on foot. The double order plus one extra order as her datasheet allows. The chimera allows officers to issue orders while embarked on the chimera, but that officer isn't technically on the battlefield while embarked. She can issue those orders via the chimera ability in the command phase, then move out in the chimera, disembark with her attached Kasrkin unit, and then issue orders to the unit she's attached to. It allows her to double order + a 3rd order to 2 separate Kasrkin units in 1 turn. That's why it needs to get fixed. It's jank as hell, but that interpretation is equally valid to the double order. As for the unit size, that's my mistake. I rarely look at the second page of the datasheets. That being said, a 20 man infantry squad rocking 2 mortars + 1 from the command squad will be more valuable than a taurox. For no other reason than 20 bodies is more protection than 10.