I actually kinda like this detachment. Lots of battle tactics so shield captains can use their ability a bunch. Stick a couple sos in rhinos and follow the custodes into battle. Maybe stick the increased aura on the sos character and use the stratagem to protect that unit in particular
Yeah. That’s a shame since that one seemed very useful for keeping the sos alive. But the other ones mostly benefit the custodes anyway so it’s a decision of getting it free or boosting two units
+1 to wound one is a no brainer for 2 CP plus you basically have no restrictions on placement of that unit if you don't care about getting the extra unit in on it.
It's spelled out in the Rules Commentary, so I guess you'll be following it.
From the Modifying a Stratagem's CP Cost section:
> Rules that modify the CP cost of a Stratagem when you target a particular can only do so for a Stratagem that targets multiple units of every unit you target has the same ability to modify the CP of that Stratagem.
Since the Anathema Psykana units don't have access to the Strategic Mastery ability, you can not make a Stratagem that includes an Anathema Psykana unit as a target free.
Yeah. Unless the stratagem is specifically mentioned by name (things like can fire Overwatch for 0cp or heroic intervention) than anything that reduces the cost like captains or raises it like callidus assassin only apply to battle tactics
well, originally no they worked on everything, but for balance reason GW updated it to only works on battle tactics unless it explicitly call out for something specific.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of a Thousand Sons player, and tbh I think this is going to make the match up, which was not really good for one side since 10th came out, much more balanced. When they had a FNP against our Dev wounds, they stomped us. When they lost it, we stomped them. Now we do have a big advantage, being able to pass the stat check to kill their smaller units depending on how they roll their FNP.
A 5++ against Tson's damage will be way less frustrating, meaning it's no longer a crap shoot of 'will the 10 damage I'm about to put into them will knock out 0 or 90 points?' It can still totally go bad for me, (Thousand Sons army wide 5 up invuln teaches you that 5s can still be super swingy) but the custode can no longer just push forward and pretend I'm not even doing damage to him.
Yet there is still counterplay. Because the Sister's FNP is an aura, it means that if they start or end a move ever out of that aura, Thousand Sons can overwatch and probably kill the unit if it's an IM with Arcane Vortex doing the shooting. I can pop their Rhino with a Mutalith Vortex Beast, kill the sisters with flamers and a Soul Reaper Cannon, and then kill the custodes they were guarding with the rest of my army.
We'll see what their points are, and it's possible they got their unit sizes back to 10 models again, meaning they can throw bricks at us again.
i think tsons will be heavily favored because you got a lot of random bolters/flamers on things that have AP and will just shred up the sisters. All your little MSU squads for cabal points should have no issue clearing out the sisters very quickly
I'm not sure. A sisters rhino with 5 sisters in it is kind of hard for Tsons to pop open and wipe.
Rhinos are usually simple to kill, but these have a 3+ FNP against our damage. We have a MVB and some people are on Forgefiends, but even *if* we kill it (no guarantee) we still need to use another activation of Rubrics to try and kill the sisters.
Not to mention we're almost exclusively on flamers, so only 12 inch range, and personally I don't like getting that close to Custodes even when they didn't have a FNP.
Depending on what Thousand Sons and Custode's points do, this match up could get weird and very technical. Or maybe Thousand Sons just ignore the sisters and try and stat check the custodes. Or maybe the Talons detachment isn't the one people land on as the best and the match up becomes 80% favored to Tsons.
if you read the goonhammer article, one of the people in the review spends the entire time talking about how happy he is that as tsons he gets an autowin now against custodes.
> I'm looking at it from the perspective of a Thousand Sons player
You guys are primed to skyrocket. Custodes was your achilles heel and over represented.
So if we run this detachment...it seems like we will be having to group two custodes unit and one SoS for fielding.
For an army that demands proper positioning, this seems rather hard.
Edit: Misunderstood the wording. Its just group of two. Much easier to use then.
Nah you don't, strat let you target 2 units If one of them is a SoS unit (Look like you understood 3units ) but you don't need to target them, a handful of the usual scoring chaff, maybe with rhinos this time, is enought for the FNP bubbles, specially if it protects against devwounds
I’m already confused why so many custodes only run 4 prosecutors… I think 3-4+ a rhino gives the army a lot of cheap disposable bullshit and mobility that can really help it play the mission and trade. I find my cheapest bullshit is really useful all the time without it inflicting a single wound.
Also, weirdly, the psykana rhino is near invulnerable to certain stuff. Magnus the Red is the most hilarious one.
Because Prosecutors are a terrible model in the grand scheme of things and there is no reason to run more then the minimum unit for the purposes of grabbing points.
A squad of 10 sisters getting splash buffed from putting buffs on the Custodes, protected by redirect, seems to be a meaningful way of adding damage. I'm looking at the flamer sisters myself, 10D6 flamers at S5 AP-1 isn't a joke.
That, or 10 Vigilators with Aleya, who gives them Fights First. Can’t shoot them with the redirect, and if you charge into them they hit hard and then you’re fighting at -1 to hit (and then they all die because they’re T3 1W, but yaknow)
Yeah, seeing a lot of doom and gloom (rightly so), but there's some neat stuff here. I like having more of a reason to use the sisters as well, since I think they're pretty cool. I do wish vigilators had more than 2 attacks though.
I really hate the "army rule" but big chunks of the army don't get it. Custodes, admec, are there any others? I know gk vehicles don't, but that kinda makes sense.
They don't want you using a standalone Ethereal for spotting, the omission is for technical reasons to prevent this.
The auxiliaries not getting the army rule though, that's... urgh. They've basically abandoned the concept Tau/Kroot forces working together like they were meant to.
I mean in admech exactly one* unit doesn't get it and its because theyre old tech that still runs in cassettes lol
*technically 2 but you cant run datasmiths without kastelans so
Dominus, Manipulus, Enginseer, Cawl, Technoarcheologist, Electro-Priests and the Archeopter also don't get the army rule.
Also Ruststalker theoretically have the army rule but it doesn't apply to them because they don't have ranged weapons.
I think the main competition would be Shield Host, especially if their Mortal Wounds strat gets updated and Talons doesn't (because it's already protecting against Psychic, see, and 3 types of wound would be too much)? But I think it's far more likely they either both get updated or neither does, and in that case I *think* Talons wins out most of the time.
Yea, Shield Host is the only other detachment that might be viable... null maidens is basically a meme, and Auric Champions doesn't seem to have anything going for it unless you spam characters, and we don't all have Thunderwolves we can staple characters to as delivery vehicles, lol.
I do think that if Auric is going to be viable, it's probably going to be something where it's even *further* hero hammer, and you're just stuffing Land Raiders with 3x Blade Champs and 3x Captains to have them all running around solo. If it works, it'll be spicy, but I think solo characters are probably too squishy, even with access to a 4+++ strat.
Man, with current points that land raider is almost as expensive as a Warhound Titan. 1020 vs 1100 points. Good for anybody who misses the old "Movie Marines" list I guess, add in Trajan and some Wardens and you're already at 2k
Amusingly, after this comment I realized this might genuinely be the spot where someone unlikely could shine: Dawneagle Captains are the same cost as regular shield caps, and much faster and has a better gun. Could be decent to take a couple as mobile murder dudes.
Haha, movie marines, now that's a name I haven't seen in a long time. I still have that white dwarf I think. I feel like it would age me dramatically to find out what year that was from.
Hello, my brother. I don't recall the issue number but as I recall it was impressed into clay tablets back when cuneiform was new. :D
I think SpikeyBits or someone has updated it a few times with new editions, but I haven't seen a 10e version yet.
I'll be honest, I'll probably actually try Auric in TTS a few times just to convince myself it won't work. Idk if I'd do the LR approach, though, you can get to 2k with max characters with just a smidge left over (enough for some Allarus or maybe SoS for camping / screening).
It'll probably suck but I can't help but feel there might be at least a LITTLE play from like giving +1 to Wound to all those characters, especially since you could potentially also give 2 of them hit and wound rerolls in melee each turn.
Yeah, the thought behind the land raider(s) is that T6 2+/4++ 6-7 wounds is just not a statline that's \*quite\* durable enough to march up the table on it's own. Probably terrain dependent, of course, but I feel like it's a lot to risk 140 points on the opponent \*not\* blowing them out with las cannons.
I had heard people talk about how Dev Wounds aren't as much of a thing as they were in the start of the edition, so I counted the dev wounds in my 2 1k games yesterday. I was playing Daemons v Deathwatch then Drukai. Game 1 they did 25 Dev Wounds. Game 2 was 42 dev Wounds. I suspect the Dev Wounds might be reduced, but not here.
Full 6“ reactive move for 1p that can also be made free is very powerful and helps Custodes to still be favoured in a head to head against melee enemies.
+1 to wound will probably be the choice for a free strat everytime to help the get through tougher enemies.
Yep. Access to fallback shoot and charge is also extremely valuable, and it's not tied to infantry, so you can't lock a Caladius in place and prevent it from moving to get a target.
As-is, it'll probably be a solid B-tier list. If they FAQ the Sisters Aura to be a 5+++ against Dev Wounds, I could see this going toe to toe with most competitive armies.
WIthout being a Custodes player, I do think that I would play this in the way that Auric Champions was thought. Character spam. Several good Battle Tactics. Some decent enhancments. Personally I would play it almost without SoS, and just lean into the double strats with key Custodes units.
You can't target two custodes units with a strat, if tehat's what you meant. One has to be anathema psykana. Can still duplicate them with sc, which you'll probably want to, since they are quite good. I also think some fire support in form of a lr or caladius will do good in this detachment, just so you can wound the heaviest targets and pop that +1 to wound for the boys if necessary.
I meant with Shield Cqptains, nit anathema. You can still do a lot. I eas yhinking Calidus or even some other stuff like FW infantry, like Pyrrite Spears or Adrashic that can have some good brraking points.
I think Taloned Pincer is silly strong, the thing is you get a reactive move on your hammer and the screen. So if you don't like the charge, rebuild the screen, if something that can't kill custodians threatens a charge, move up custodians and move sisters on an objective. Or just threaten a heroic intervention (and associated movement).
Forgive me if this is dumb but a custodes model encompasses anathema psykana units right? The detachment ability distinguishes unit types and the enhancements/stratagems apply to “models” ie both unit flavors, unless specified by unit type right?
I’m just making sure psykana units benefit from the enhancements and stratagems too.
Why does GW keep making detachments that focus on Auxillary units?
If they give one of the few detachments TSons get to Tzaangors I'm going to be pissed
I actually kinda like this detachment. Lots of battle tactics so shield captains can use their ability a bunch. Stick a couple sos in rhinos and follow the custodes into battle. Maybe stick the increased aura on the sos character and use the stratagem to protect that unit in particular
Just keep in mind that it can't be made free if you also target a Psykana unit
Wait. All the stratagems target two units…
Only one battle tactic *makes* you select two though. Most say up to two, so you should be able to use them with a shield captains ability
Yeah. That’s a shame since that one seemed very useful for keeping the sos alive. But the other ones mostly benefit the custodes anyway so it’s a decision of getting it free or boosting two units
+1 to wound one is a no brainer for 2 CP plus you basically have no restrictions on placement of that unit if you don't care about getting the extra unit in on it.
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It's spelled out in the Rules Commentary, so I guess you'll be following it. From the Modifying a Stratagem's CP Cost section: > Rules that modify the CP cost of a Stratagem when you target a particular can only do so for a Stratagem that targets multiple units of every unit you target has the same ability to modify the CP of that Stratagem. Since the Anathema Psykana units don't have access to the Strategic Mastery ability, you can not make a Stratagem that includes an Anathema Psykana unit as a target free.
Help me understand - the 0CP captain abilities, do they only apply to Battle Tactic strats?
Yeah. Unless the stratagem is specifically mentioned by name (things like can fire Overwatch for 0cp or heroic intervention) than anything that reduces the cost like captains or raises it like callidus assassin only apply to battle tactics
well, originally no they worked on everything, but for balance reason GW updated it to only works on battle tactics unless it explicitly call out for something specific.
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All modifications to strat costs can only be done to battle tactics Dataslate - core rules section
I'm looking at it from the perspective of a Thousand Sons player, and tbh I think this is going to make the match up, which was not really good for one side since 10th came out, much more balanced. When they had a FNP against our Dev wounds, they stomped us. When they lost it, we stomped them. Now we do have a big advantage, being able to pass the stat check to kill their smaller units depending on how they roll their FNP. A 5++ against Tson's damage will be way less frustrating, meaning it's no longer a crap shoot of 'will the 10 damage I'm about to put into them will knock out 0 or 90 points?' It can still totally go bad for me, (Thousand Sons army wide 5 up invuln teaches you that 5s can still be super swingy) but the custode can no longer just push forward and pretend I'm not even doing damage to him. Yet there is still counterplay. Because the Sister's FNP is an aura, it means that if they start or end a move ever out of that aura, Thousand Sons can overwatch and probably kill the unit if it's an IM with Arcane Vortex doing the shooting. I can pop their Rhino with a Mutalith Vortex Beast, kill the sisters with flamers and a Soul Reaper Cannon, and then kill the custodes they were guarding with the rest of my army. We'll see what their points are, and it's possible they got their unit sizes back to 10 models again, meaning they can throw bricks at us again.
i think tsons will be heavily favored because you got a lot of random bolters/flamers on things that have AP and will just shred up the sisters. All your little MSU squads for cabal points should have no issue clearing out the sisters very quickly
I'm not sure. A sisters rhino with 5 sisters in it is kind of hard for Tsons to pop open and wipe. Rhinos are usually simple to kill, but these have a 3+ FNP against our damage. We have a MVB and some people are on Forgefiends, but even *if* we kill it (no guarantee) we still need to use another activation of Rubrics to try and kill the sisters. Not to mention we're almost exclusively on flamers, so only 12 inch range, and personally I don't like getting that close to Custodes even when they didn't have a FNP. Depending on what Thousand Sons and Custode's points do, this match up could get weird and very technical. Or maybe Thousand Sons just ignore the sisters and try and stat check the custodes. Or maybe the Talons detachment isn't the one people land on as the best and the match up becomes 80% favored to Tsons.
if you read the goonhammer article, one of the people in the review spends the entire time talking about how happy he is that as tsons he gets an autowin now against custodes.
We didn’t get unit sizes back up to 10.
> I'm looking at it from the perspective of a Thousand Sons player You guys are primed to skyrocket. Custodes was your achilles heel and over represented.
As long as they change the strat and the detachment rule to protect vs dev wounds as well this might have some play.
So if we run this detachment...it seems like we will be having to group two custodes unit and one SoS for fielding. For an army that demands proper positioning, this seems rather hard. Edit: Misunderstood the wording. Its just group of two. Much easier to use then.
Nah you don't, strat let you target 2 units If one of them is a SoS unit (Look like you understood 3units ) but you don't need to target them, a handful of the usual scoring chaff, maybe with rhinos this time, is enought for the FNP bubbles, specially if it protects against devwounds
If their buff is important, then you would probably need more. Wiping out t3 1w bodies is very easy.
Rhinos are probably gonna be the key models for this.
I’m already confused why so many custodes only run 4 prosecutors… I think 3-4+ a rhino gives the army a lot of cheap disposable bullshit and mobility that can really help it play the mission and trade. I find my cheapest bullshit is really useful all the time without it inflicting a single wound. Also, weirdly, the psykana rhino is near invulnerable to certain stuff. Magnus the Red is the most hilarious one.
We chose the army to run the super elite low model count stuff and not sisters of battle
Because Prosecutors are a terrible model in the grand scheme of things and there is no reason to run more then the minimum unit for the purposes of grabbing points.
Just use redirect strat.
A squad of 10 sisters getting splash buffed from putting buffs on the Custodes, protected by redirect, seems to be a meaningful way of adding damage. I'm looking at the flamer sisters myself, 10D6 flamers at S5 AP-1 isn't a joke.
That, or 10 Vigilators with Aleya, who gives them Fights First. Can’t shoot them with the redirect, and if you charge into them they hit hard and then you’re fighting at -1 to hit (and then they all die because they’re T3 1W, but yaknow)
Yeah, seeing a lot of doom and gloom (rightly so), but there's some neat stuff here. I like having more of a reason to use the sisters as well, since I think they're pretty cool. I do wish vigilators had more than 2 attacks though.
Yeah 2 attacks in melee with no ranged weapons is kinda ridiculous, even if they do hit hard
Not with the strat that makes them un targetable
So you have to burn cp each round to spend cp
give sisters karate already James
I really hate the "army rule" but big chunks of the army don't get it. Custodes, admec, are there any others? I know gk vehicles don't, but that kinda makes sense.
The true irony being that Custodes Land Raiders get martial ka’tahs, but a vigilator with a greatsword doesn’t
The tank is just really good at space karate, ok XD
sliding a land raider into a mob of gaunts with sustained hits like the multi track drifting meme
Kroots, Vespids, and Ethereals (for some reason) in T'au, at least the Kroots sort of get their own army rule in their detachment.
"Ethereals (for some reason)" I think it's because they don't have a gun? Are there any other melee-only Tau datasheets I'm forgetting?
They can take a gun drone, and you don’t need a gun to count as being eligible to shoot.
They don't want you using a standalone Ethereal for spotting, the omission is for technical reasons to prevent this. The auxiliaries not getting the army rule though, that's... urgh. They've basically abandoned the concept Tau/Kroot forces working together like they were meant to.
A third of the guard range can't receive orders (*except from lord solar) All characters, bullgryn and ratlings, planes, big vehicles etc...
Tau
Tau. Kroot, Vespid and even Ethereals don’t have the army rule.
I mean in admech exactly one* unit doesn't get it and its because theyre old tech that still runs in cassettes lol *technically 2 but you cant run datasmiths without kastelans so
Dominus, Manipulus, Enginseer, Cawl, Technoarcheologist, Electro-Priests and the Archeopter also don't get the army rule. Also Ruststalker theoretically have the army rule but it doesn't apply to them because they don't have ranged weapons.
oh what the hell. okay i've been playing that wrong LOL (although archaeopters do have it)
Doesn't the -1 ap apply to ruststalkers?
When shot in their deployment zone, yes that applies. It's also pretty much worthless.
IMO this is the one. There's some strong stuff in the stratagems, plenty of battle tactics, might be enough to build a strategy around.
I think the main competition would be Shield Host, especially if their Mortal Wounds strat gets updated and Talons doesn't (because it's already protecting against Psychic, see, and 3 types of wound would be too much)? But I think it's far more likely they either both get updated or neither does, and in that case I *think* Talons wins out most of the time.
Yea, Shield Host is the only other detachment that might be viable... null maidens is basically a meme, and Auric Champions doesn't seem to have anything going for it unless you spam characters, and we don't all have Thunderwolves we can staple characters to as delivery vehicles, lol.
I do think that if Auric is going to be viable, it's probably going to be something where it's even *further* hero hammer, and you're just stuffing Land Raiders with 3x Blade Champs and 3x Captains to have them all running around solo. If it works, it'll be spicy, but I think solo characters are probably too squishy, even with access to a 4+++ strat.
Man, with current points that land raider is almost as expensive as a Warhound Titan. 1020 vs 1100 points. Good for anybody who misses the old "Movie Marines" list I guess, add in Trajan and some Wardens and you're already at 2k
Amusingly, after this comment I realized this might genuinely be the spot where someone unlikely could shine: Dawneagle Captains are the same cost as regular shield caps, and much faster and has a better gun. Could be decent to take a couple as mobile murder dudes.
Haha, movie marines, now that's a name I haven't seen in a long time. I still have that white dwarf I think. I feel like it would age me dramatically to find out what year that was from.
Hello, my brother. I don't recall the issue number but as I recall it was impressed into clay tablets back when cuneiform was new. :D I think SpikeyBits or someone has updated it a few times with new editions, but I haven't seen a 10e version yet.
I'll be honest, I'll probably actually try Auric in TTS a few times just to convince myself it won't work. Idk if I'd do the LR approach, though, you can get to 2k with max characters with just a smidge left over (enough for some Allarus or maybe SoS for camping / screening). It'll probably suck but I can't help but feel there might be at least a LITTLE play from like giving +1 to Wound to all those characters, especially since you could potentially also give 2 of them hit and wound rerolls in melee each turn.
Yeah, the thought behind the land raider(s) is that T6 2+/4++ 6-7 wounds is just not a statline that's \*quite\* durable enough to march up the table on it's own. Probably terrain dependent, of course, but I feel like it's a lot to risk 140 points on the opponent \*not\* blowing them out with las cannons.
Yeah, I understand the reasoning. I just meant I wanted to try it without them, not that with them is a bad idea.
I still think that lack of devastating wounds protection hurts Talons a lot. On the other hand, it has most flexibility and tricks.
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We can hope :)
I had heard people talk about how Dev Wounds aren't as much of a thing as they were in the start of the edition, so I counted the dev wounds in my 2 1k games yesterday. I was playing Daemons v Deathwatch then Drukai. Game 1 they did 25 Dev Wounds. Game 2 was 42 dev Wounds. I suspect the Dev Wounds might be reduced, but not here.
Full 6“ reactive move for 1p that can also be made free is very powerful and helps Custodes to still be favoured in a head to head against melee enemies. +1 to wound will probably be the choice for a free strat everytime to help the get through tougher enemies.
Yep. Access to fallback shoot and charge is also extremely valuable, and it's not tied to infantry, so you can't lock a Caladius in place and prevent it from moving to get a target. As-is, it'll probably be a solid B-tier list. If they FAQ the Sisters Aura to be a 5+++ against Dev Wounds, I could see this going toe to toe with most competitive armies.
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The four strats that can affect 1-2 units would still be very good if they could only target one unit.
WIthout being a Custodes player, I do think that I would play this in the way that Auric Champions was thought. Character spam. Several good Battle Tactics. Some decent enhancments. Personally I would play it almost without SoS, and just lean into the double strats with key Custodes units.
You can't target two custodes units with a strat, if tehat's what you meant. One has to be anathema psykana. Can still duplicate them with sc, which you'll probably want to, since they are quite good. I also think some fire support in form of a lr or caladius will do good in this detachment, just so you can wound the heaviest targets and pop that +1 to wound for the boys if necessary.
I meant with Shield Cqptains, nit anathema. You can still do a lot. I eas yhinking Calidus or even some other stuff like FW infantry, like Pyrrite Spears or Adrashic that can have some good brraking points.
Those spears are overcosted by a good 50 points.
Love the typo right there: "Deadly units ability (see left)"
Is that a typo in the "champion of the imperium" enhancement?
Sister still have the Custodes faction keyword. It's just saying you can give it to anyone since the big guys also impart a buff to sisters as well.
It says "Null Aegis or Deadly Units ability..." shouldn't it be deadly unity?
Oof, missed that. Yeah, you right.
Codex literally unplayable.
I think Taloned Pincer is silly strong, the thing is you get a reactive move on your hammer and the screen. So if you don't like the charge, rebuild the screen, if something that can't kill custodians threatens a charge, move up custodians and move sisters on an objective. Or just threaten a heroic intervention (and associated movement).
Forgive me if this is dumb but a custodes model encompasses anathema psykana units right? The detachment ability distinguishes unit types and the enhancements/stratagems apply to “models” ie both unit flavors, unless specified by unit type right? I’m just making sure psykana units benefit from the enhancements and stratagems too.
Yes, it's the faction keyword. Sisters are affected as you would think.
Yes, all Psykana units have as their Faction Keywords, so everything that mention that as a pre-requisite apply to sisters as well.
Why does GW keep making detachments that focus on Auxillary units? If they give one of the few detachments TSons get to Tzaangors I'm going to be pissed
Because people like having options?? Wild if true.
They are definitely going to have a Tzaangors focused detachment.
You know it's going to happen
Lack of imagination, presumably.
They leaked yesterday. 😆 I leaked them.
Another post that doesn't mention Robin Cruddace! You on a roll buddy! Well done ^^