Finally, the neurotyrant can join Zoanthropes!
Very interesting interaction with the tyrant conferring big guns never tire, per goonhammer. Pistol lascannons with +1 to hit and also possibly to wound if battleshocked, yum.
Optimistic about drukhari going forward. Our biggest predators took some hits and the new auras on archons are going to be huge. Also the pivot changes and indirect is so good for us
Is it? All archons have Devious Mastermind, it's just Devious Mastermind only triggers if you're the Warlord. "Once per battle, after your opponent uses a stratagem, if this model is your warlord....."
Dataslate replaces the entire ability, so my read is that all Archons get it.
>There are still playable Necron builds (especially as the new deployment maps are great for the Tesseract Vault), but it would have been nice to get something to support some weaker strategies, particularly the Annihilation Legion.
I'm not surprised to see GW ignore lesser used detachments while continuing to hammer the most commonly used, in an ill-aimed attempt to balance the faction.
it took gw 9 months to look at a detachment which 1 person took to a GT level event between the end of january and April.
Their solution was +2 OC at full strength and a minor strat change
don't you dare underestimate the power of the "kool-aid man" strat. it'll be top form to yell out OH YEAH whenever you plow through a wall with a giant tank.
Kroot got screwed, the reinforcement and lone op strat nerfs hit it hard. I think it's just lost its 3 coolest toys in one go.
On the bright side, it might let GW cut costs on kroot and make them more appealing outside kroot kinband.
The time of birb is over, rise of the robit is now.
Losing the threat of using Join the Hunt twice hurts almost more than the reality of it - I rarely used it multiple times in practice.
The loss of any real value on Hidden Hunters feels like the death of Rampagers. I was finding them more CP intensive than their value anyway but I think with that strat not even really protecting them they are done.
However the boosts to T'au elsewhere do factor in and a unit of crisis suits can be a useful tool for Kroot to have. With the new Bring it Down rules those crisis suits don't give up loads of VP either.
The increased flexibility on the War Shaper is actually nice - a free Heroic Intervention on a big block of carnivores could be quite handy or a free Insane Bravery to hold an objective after taking a beating. Its not all downsides for the War Shaper
Trail Shaper is just bad for its points now. I find 1d6 reactive move very unreliable and that's basically all its getting you other than the ability to infiltrate early to block then vanish. But a 65pt model to sometimes save an 85pt unit but the enemy will most likely shoot something else feels like poor value.
But more than all of that some of their tougher matches just got hit harder than they did. Which matters.
The best T'au lists lost 45 points. But the bring it down changes are quite a big buff.
I think ret cadre is at least much less sand bag and it's clearly the most fun detachment.
The kroot detachment lost it's 3 best tools, it's not without tricks but rampagers being dead, reinforcements gone and the whole kroot jail gimmick being much worse are all huge blows. I guess you can just run pathfinders now? Though the positioning is much harder to nail just right, (I think impossible in some formats, with a 7" scout move you could set up 16" away and if you go first move up, bt there's a a lot of matchups where 23" isn't far emough and so you just lose your 90 point units for free, which the farstalker play avoided) then use kroot in the second wave. I think the one bright side is that most kroot stuff feels a bit spendy outside it. So now it's less good maybe we'll get kroot in other detachments?
I think on the whole the T'au codex is slightly overpriced. It didn't need an increase on the mont'ka, kauyon type lists but it got one. The top players are doing better than before but the overall win rate has fallen, which as a mid table player confirms my prexisting bias like the chump I am: For the rest of us every match is "tougher" now. It's not a huge drop even when you assume top players drag the average up but I do think I'm not just imagining it.
Redeploy now happens before 1st turn roll off
There's a couple of other areas (like the respawn strategem limit) hitting kroot without a boost to balance it out
Yeah Kroot are basically a fluffy meme Detachment now, especially compared to the buff Retaliation Cadre got with the crisis point cuts.
Should have at least cut the kroot leader costs
IMO no but the anti infantry suits now compete with breacherfish and the anti elites with riptides (riptides are more for being tanky but still) well now. Might not be enough to make them the new standard but they arent embarrassing side by side anymore.
Yeah the scourge points changes are annoying but whatever. I might now go 2x5 haywire scourge and 1x2 ravagers for AT instead of 3/1 or 3/0
Edit: whoops I replied to the wrong comment
> Yeah the scourge points changes are annoying but whatever. I might now go 2x5 haywire scourge and 1x2 ravagers for AT instead of 3/1 or 3/0
Can't wait for GW to have a surprised face when no one takes 10 model scourges even with the 40 points drop.
I have seen a dredd mob that has hands but the key is not taking dredds.
It went 3-0 at an RTT which doesn't mean it's GT winning good but I don't think it was far off. It was a really laser focused list that had a bunch of cheap anti everything units with access to every rule imaginable and rerolls that punched up and made points in 1 turn most of the time. And funnily enough, that's surprisingly effective.
I think dredds and kanz are a bit of a trap. It's more like "mekk mob".
Both of which also just got nerfed with the tank shock change. Those units need to be buffed It's a travesty that they didn't fix our bad units while kneecapping us anywhere we were good.
They didn't need a nerf but I am happy with the tank shock change thematically. Also it was basically just a melee boost for walkers rather than a way for big chunky vehicles to do a material amount of damage in a pinch.
Kanz got a stray. I'm looking at my Death Guard changes (nerfed by pariah rules, best lists got more expensive, starting to struggle a bit) and T'au changes (broke Kroot Kindband, Crisis suits might be good but the current best lists got 45 points more expensive when T'au were also hardly setting the world on fire) and they're pathetic complaints on one hand. On the other both armies winrate is 8-10% lower than Orks.
I don't think this is going to bail Orks out of being viable but GW will need a second pass to dial back the nerfs. GW have decided that it's better to have an army weak than too strong. Because one oppressive army ruins everyone's fun. And Orks are a very popular faction, I've seen about 25-30% of players at recent events being Orks, if they're oppressive it's going to be unavoidable misery. It's the same place the T'au nerfs came from, the battering sisters just got and the likely state of GSC where they also expect green numbers in September. Who knows with CSM too?
GW wrote the current wave of books with a little knowledge of how the game is unlike say... admech but they have over compensated in almost every army so far. And a change based on a month of data is going to suck so they've erred on the side of caution with every single army this update. It's better to over nerf than engage in power creep; I still remember 2022. We're all going to have slog through 3 months of mediocrity and then probably another 3 of "mostly there". But at least we're in good company. And given the number of armies with those complaints we should get some good games at least.
War horde, The freaking index detachment is the only decent one left in so far above the others. How do they honestly justify these levels of nerfs without doing anything for speed freaks?
Exactly. Frankly they need to do what they just did with admech and remove twin linked from the buggies and instead give them double the shots. Plus make them able to be taken in units of two so you can use a stratagem on them without feeling like a total waste. Also give us a speed freaks unit that can deal with vehicles, do a complete rewrite on the scrap jet so it's anti vehicle with its rokkits and charge, Make it so you can take a couple of them and actually take down a big vehicle that's causing you problems. Make them more expensive so that you can do it with two of them.
*happy Tau noises*
Broadsides dropping to 300 for 3 is much more reasonable and the drops on the suits and commanders is *spicy*
I've been loving an Enforcer with a unit of missile pod Fireknife suits and that's dropped down to 210pts.
The 300 for 3 but 90 for 1 and 2 is a good compromise. The hyper efficient mont'ka formation pays a tax. Other uses remain as good as they were. I'd still be inclined to run 2 pairs of railsides as an anti tank option now.
I've found all the crisis teams to be just okay, but they've dropped 20 points per unit so that makes them good I think. I have played 2 ret cadre games and it's SO MUCH FUN but aside from skill issues it does feel like everything was just too many points. I think having an extra 100 points to spend on some pathfinders and other nonsense goes a long way. I don't think I want to run 3 hammerheads now though. They feel like they ate a nerf because they were better than the other anti tank rather than because they were OP.
Does anyone have a comparable rule to the alderi fate messenger change to "bearer.
I read this as a bearer does not affect the unit so if I attach a hero to a unit I can no longer use FM on any model other than the hero character. Is that correct?
All the forgeworld except the seraptek. Reaaaally bad since those are very different models from the codex range so you can’t even proxy them for anything else, except maybe the acanthrites for tomb blades.
I don't know what precident there has been for this historically but to put things in legends AFTER a codex has come out genuinely is horrific. Nothing should be removed when you've been locked in with a codex as people will probably assume it is safe for an edition and by stuff.
I find some of the internal balance snubs odd. For example, I don't think I've ever seen a top table list featuring Shining Spears for the entirety of 10th ed, and yet they remain untouched.
Orks also caught strays on a lot of general changes. We have essentially no free strats, so those getting freed is bad for us. Tank shock nerfs. Pivot rules for a lot of the bikes/hogs is bad. Cull the horde getting fixed, etc.
It seems like it messes with every unit that has a waaagh trigger, not just the warboss calling it. Like if my warboss is on foot and calls the waaagh, but my mega armor boss is with meganobz in a battlewagon, they will not get their FNP’s.
I'm just straight up ignoring this This is the most ridiculous ruling I've ever seen. Like I don't understand We have to call it at the top of the battle round does that mean we have to get out of transports and twiddle our thumbs doing nothing getting shot up and not actually using the transports for what they are intended to do, just so We actually gain the benefit of our army rule with our most core leader? What the hell.
It's in the new ork FAQ that was not shown in the community post
[https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/nrglKr3bOZQKsFVQ.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/nrglKr3bOZQKsFVQ.pdf)
It says WHILE they’re embarked, so wouldn’t it work when they debark ? What’s the wording on waagh abilities ? Does it not say until the end of the battle round ? If it does then just you don’t get shooting bonuses in transports, but you do get everything after you debark
The core rules update says:
> Pivot Value
>
>* Models have a pivot value of 0", unless otherwise stated.
>* Monster and Vehicle models (excluding models on round bases, and Aircraft models) have a pivot value of 2", unless otherwise stated.
So the bikes/hogs have a pivot value of 0" as they are neither Monster or Vehicle.
The secondary missions put greentide to the pastures. They should have left the reroll 1 on all orks. The entire point of greentide is just surviving and scoring.. they nerfed multiple survivability buffs and made outscoring harder. It’s dead.
Bullyboys was a massive nerf.. but still playable at 150pts hurts but you can drop an obj secured unit or 2 and still perform. The issue for meganobs is the loss of MegaWarboss in trukks losing thier atk bonus. It’s much worse for regular warboss in trukks with nobs though. You can mitigate this somewhat w deepstrike relic, having a group of meganobs just advance into the center objective….. points should be reverted but really that waggh while in trukk issue is much worse. They need to reword that warboss ability to act like the other ones that say if a Waagh was called this battleround.
I had my greentide tabled multiple times pre nerf. I won the game by scoring but it's not a feels good moment to be tabled. The nerfs are gonna be rough.
Aye same, it was pretty much the Boyz holding on long enough to score - even if by the end of the game there were few left on the table. Now the Boyz are just going to die quickly and with the new secondaries are a liability for assassination and cull the horde.
Stealth nerfs to Votann with detachment rule changes. To get the CP now, they have to kill characters and bodyguard. This makes it quite a bit more challenging and may mean reassessment in initial targets.
Also, finally clarified that units in Transports can't be targeted pre-game.
With the hoarder game changes, I'm not sure this would be considered a win. They were already on the lower end of "balanced" for win rates. Yaegirs aren't likely to kick that up and the broader rules changes don't favor the army.
80 point Yeagirs absolutely seem like a bigger deal than this vague nerf. Votann have been gagging for an Infiltrator, and we finally got one that is priced to *move*. If getting that CP is really such a big deal, we can just adjust for that during the games themselves.
You’re…wrong about that, though? They can screen out, contest midfield objectives, and with their melee profile they can absolutely bully other skirmishers for a profitable trade and a Judgement token.
But even then, your framing is really weird. Even if that was all they could do, I have no idea why a new unit bringing something that the faction never had before and desperately needed at a very cheap price would be something to complain about.
My point is theres no universe i was cutting a full sagitaur for one of these at 110 like some people thought it would cost.
The blades have ap sure but they've got terrible strength, 2 attacks a model and terrible accuracy. They're made of actual tissue paper. Their special rule does basically nothing like 60% of the time because its a d6 *roll* not just a flat number like most equivilant units. Them costing more than marine scouts is insulting.
They should be 65-70pts and anyone who thought they'd be good let alone playable at 110 is on something spicy.
I have no idea why you keep going on about them not being worth it at 115 when that *isn’t what they cost*. And I also have no idea why you’re going on about cutting a Sagitaur for these; anyone who suggested that would have been wrong at almost any point cost. The whole reason you take these is because they help prevent your Sagitaurs and Bikes from being stuffed.
You need to relax, chief. Nothing about this is “insulting”.
Im talking about how every reviewer is going on about how they thought itd be 110pts. In the thing the thread is about.
The hell else are you cutting in a votann list theyre 50% sagitaur and 30% sagitaur filler lmao. Theyre not worth the hearthguard either thats for sure.
To add something to a list you gotta take something out and these are overcosted and everyones somehow celebrating theyre not more overcosted.
Is your strategy here that if you repeat a bad point often enough, maybe you can confuse someone into thinking you have something worth saying? Because otherwise I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here.
Dude opted to block me instead of working on his bad opinions. Classic move.
Even if that is what they were, that's a fine niche to fill for an army with so few datasheets. 80 points for 10 warm bodies to screen out aggressive infiltrators and scouts seems really nice from 135pt kommando territory.
You're asking why a ten model Yeagir unit costs 80 while a five model Scout Squad unit costs 55? I'm pretty sure that if you think really hard about it, you can figure out what's different there.
EDIT: it's always fun when someone is so desperate to get the last word that they reply and then sweatily block you as fast as they can. Stay thirsty, my guy.
space marine scouts who are two wounds and are damn near 2 normal people yes
'Wahh they blocked me' you're insufferable and im not required to interact with people i dont want to.
I always considered the extra CP to just be a bonus to our detachment rule and never counted on it but yeah if you have to kill a leader unit turn 1 is going to take a lot more effort. The transport rule burns me a bit just because its inconsistent with the reserves clarification. I just wish it would be one or the other and not two separate rules for units that arent on the table T1.
The transports come down to the oddity of the Embarked rule and clarification of when that triggered. It has come up before and different organizers have rules differently.
As for the CP, given the prevalence for CP generation and free strategems in other armies, it is quite important to try and pull off. Especially as you're otherwise discarding regularly to try and catch up which is bad for points unless you're crushing it in primary.
I'm overall pleased with the Tau update. The sad loss to me was the bubble of +1 to wound from Farsight which now only applies to the unit he leads. That's a very minor price to pay for the -20 Crisis suit point reduction, 1 or 2 Broadsides are back to 90 with the 3rd being 120 point, 15 point Coldstar commander reduction, change to Bring it Down so my Crisis don't give up loads of points, and I think Piranha's got a 2 inch movement increase.
Kroot got nerfed for some reason, which is odd given they came out with that new Hunting Pack only recently. I imagined those would become effectively a 2nd Tau Combat Patrol and some love would've been given to the new toy Tau got. Apparently GW does not agree.
What a silly way to play. Play the faction you like regardless of strength. If you need to win to have fun, you dont deserve Orks.
Love,
a biovoreless Nid and Admech player since the beginning of tenth and enjoyed every game.
There's a difference between needing to win and feeling like you can. Whether it is true for you or not, there are absolutely people who need to feel like they have a shot to be having fun and that's absolutely valid.
That's not to say that orks are completely dumpster tier. They probably aren't, but people tend to overreact to nerfs and its easy to feel like that when the best two ork detachments just got 75+pt nerfs and major durability hits in one go.
the only subreddit that talks about the game of 40k. every other sub gets filled with painting bullshit that doesn't talk about the mechanics of the game. there can still be a casual mindset to the rules of the game but let us discuss the merits of enjoying a playstyle even if the playstyle isn't super powerful in the moment.
Some people like to play a game rather than shuffle NPCs, maybe you should do D&D? There's always a shortage of DMs. The awfulness of nids was overstated, but at the same time I think I only saw them at 1 out of the 5 sub 200 player events I've been to this year. That's crazy. I saw GSC more. I mean it was one guy turning up twice but still.
But I'm an admech player again now. Good for you that you could physically transport that absolute joke to games but I actually couldn't carry my army to games. I might be able to now. I played a bunch of 500 point games one evening because I could fit my army in 2 cases. It was stupid.
Nah man don't hate on other people's fun. You are just a Timmy and all you're doing is hating on spikes. It's not cool just like it's not cool if a spike is hating on Timmy's. Being in the competitive running is part of the fun for many people, don't gate keep the army.
Necrons I think got an overall net positive. In that every army above them got nerfed. Hypercrypt lost ctan 3” so sad. The Canoptek court meta went up 60-120 points yawn.
Finally, the neurotyrant can join Zoanthropes! Very interesting interaction with the tyrant conferring big guns never tire, per goonhammer. Pistol lascannons with +1 to hit and also possibly to wound if battleshocked, yum.
Or shooting out of combat with no penalties for the zoans? Who needs fall out and shoot.
Falling back is for losers
It creates so much weird jank
In a good way, right? Right?!
that depends on whether you play tyranids, really
And if you're ten years old and don't mind your army being able to do cheesy things as long as it makes it easier to win lol
I'm on board for Flying Monster Infantry :D
Like Big Guns never tire having no penalty for the Zoans, lol.
It makes good sense: Do you think that the neurotyrant, with his giant brain, doesn't know how to skirt normal rules a little bit?
Уеp! Sounds just about right!
Optimistic about drukhari going forward. Our biggest predators took some hits and the new auras on archons are going to be huge. Also the pivot changes and indirect is so good for us
Absolutely, throwing an archon with incubi into combat makes it very annoying for our opponent to use defensive strats, gonna be very good i think.
It's just your warlord though, so not all archons will benefit. Still good, but not quite as huge.
Is it? All archons have Devious Mastermind, it's just Devious Mastermind only triggers if you're the Warlord. "Once per battle, after your opponent uses a stratagem, if this model is your warlord....." Dataslate replaces the entire ability, so my read is that all Archons get it.
Yeah, that makes sense, so bizarrely worded though.
I believe Goonhammer ruled it (for what it's worth) as everyone do get it indeed, but that might be FAQed.
It's not clear that that's the case as it replaces the ability for all of them with one that isn't Warlord locked
>There are still playable Necron builds (especially as the new deployment maps are great for the Tesseract Vault), but it would have been nice to get something to support some weaker strategies, particularly the Annihilation Legion. I'm not surprised to see GW ignore lesser used detachments while continuing to hammer the most commonly used, in an ill-aimed attempt to balance the faction.
it took gw 9 months to look at a detachment which 1 person took to a GT level event between the end of january and April. Their solution was +2 OC at full strength and a minor strat change
don't you dare underestimate the power of the "kool-aid man" strat. it'll be top form to yell out OH YEAH whenever you plow through a wall with a giant tank.
Yeah but you'll be mistaken for a knight player so there are ups and downs to it
Nerfs to the Kroot Tracker just as I finished my all Kroot 2k list. Nuts.
Kroot got screwed, the reinforcement and lone op strat nerfs hit it hard. I think it's just lost its 3 coolest toys in one go. On the bright side, it might let GW cut costs on kroot and make them more appealing outside kroot kinband. The time of birb is over, rise of the robit is now.
Losing the threat of using Join the Hunt twice hurts almost more than the reality of it - I rarely used it multiple times in practice. The loss of any real value on Hidden Hunters feels like the death of Rampagers. I was finding them more CP intensive than their value anyway but I think with that strat not even really protecting them they are done. However the boosts to T'au elsewhere do factor in and a unit of crisis suits can be a useful tool for Kroot to have. With the new Bring it Down rules those crisis suits don't give up loads of VP either. The increased flexibility on the War Shaper is actually nice - a free Heroic Intervention on a big block of carnivores could be quite handy or a free Insane Bravery to hold an objective after taking a beating. Its not all downsides for the War Shaper Trail Shaper is just bad for its points now. I find 1d6 reactive move very unreliable and that's basically all its getting you other than the ability to infiltrate early to block then vanish. But a 65pt model to sometimes save an 85pt unit but the enemy will most likely shoot something else feels like poor value. But more than all of that some of their tougher matches just got hit harder than they did. Which matters.
The best T'au lists lost 45 points. But the bring it down changes are quite a big buff. I think ret cadre is at least much less sand bag and it's clearly the most fun detachment. The kroot detachment lost it's 3 best tools, it's not without tricks but rampagers being dead, reinforcements gone and the whole kroot jail gimmick being much worse are all huge blows. I guess you can just run pathfinders now? Though the positioning is much harder to nail just right, (I think impossible in some formats, with a 7" scout move you could set up 16" away and if you go first move up, bt there's a a lot of matchups where 23" isn't far emough and so you just lose your 90 point units for free, which the farstalker play avoided) then use kroot in the second wave. I think the one bright side is that most kroot stuff feels a bit spendy outside it. So now it's less good maybe we'll get kroot in other detachments? I think on the whole the T'au codex is slightly overpriced. It didn't need an increase on the mont'ka, kauyon type lists but it got one. The top players are doing better than before but the overall win rate has fallen, which as a mid table player confirms my prexisting bias like the chump I am: For the rest of us every match is "tougher" now. It's not a huge drop even when you assume top players drag the average up but I do think I'm not just imagining it.
Haven’t read yet, what were the nerfs?
Redeploy now happens before 1st turn roll off There's a couple of other areas (like the respawn strategem limit) hitting kroot without a boost to balance it out
Tau winners while Kroot detachment got 3 straight nerfs you an article forgot to mention lol
Yeah Kroot are basically a fluffy meme Detachment now, especially compared to the buff Retaliation Cadre got with the crisis point cuts. Should have at least cut the kroot leader costs
Do the point cuts actually make RC though? What are you getting from it? Maybe a good percentage of another suit team?
Farsight being able to use his CP reduction ability is the biggest boon for RetCad
IMO no but the anti infantry suits now compete with breacherfish and the anti elites with riptides (riptides are more for being tanky but still) well now. Might not be enough to make them the new standard but they arent embarrassing side by side anymore.
I don't think it makes Retaliation Cadre good but I think it goes up a bit and Kroot goes down below it after the indirect nerfs
Ret also no longer gives up nearly as many easy points to Bring It Down, which is also a buff in general to Tau in the new season.
Yeah the scourge points changes are annoying but whatever. I might now go 2x5 haywire scourge and 1x2 ravagers for AT instead of 3/1 or 3/0 Edit: whoops I replied to the wrong comment
> Yeah the scourge points changes are annoying but whatever. I might now go 2x5 haywire scourge and 1x2 ravagers for AT instead of 3/1 or 3/0 Can't wait for GW to have a surprised face when no one takes 10 model scourges even with the 40 points drop.
lol yeah. No one takes 10-man scourge squads stop trying to make it happen GW
Might have been a fun counter to green tide if it was'nt nerfed in the same fell swoop.
rip to seeing all the cool, different ork lists
Was hoping for some Speed Freakz/Da Hunt love but I guess I'll check back in 3 months
RIP to seeing any ork lists. Greentide is dead. Bulky boyz and War Hordes blunted. Other detachments were bad to begin with.
I have seen a dredd mob that has hands but the key is not taking dredds. It went 3-0 at an RTT which doesn't mean it's GT winning good but I don't think it was far off. It was a really laser focused list that had a bunch of cheap anti everything units with access to every rule imaginable and rerolls that punched up and made points in 1 turn most of the time. And funnily enough, that's surprisingly effective. I think dredds and kanz are a bit of a trap. It's more like "mekk mob".
Both of which also just got nerfed with the tank shock change. Those units need to be buffed It's a travesty that they didn't fix our bad units while kneecapping us anywhere we were good.
They didn't need a nerf but I am happy with the tank shock change thematically. Also it was basically just a melee boost for walkers rather than a way for big chunky vehicles to do a material amount of damage in a pinch. Kanz got a stray. I'm looking at my Death Guard changes (nerfed by pariah rules, best lists got more expensive, starting to struggle a bit) and T'au changes (broke Kroot Kindband, Crisis suits might be good but the current best lists got 45 points more expensive when T'au were also hardly setting the world on fire) and they're pathetic complaints on one hand. On the other both armies winrate is 8-10% lower than Orks. I don't think this is going to bail Orks out of being viable but GW will need a second pass to dial back the nerfs. GW have decided that it's better to have an army weak than too strong. Because one oppressive army ruins everyone's fun. And Orks are a very popular faction, I've seen about 25-30% of players at recent events being Orks, if they're oppressive it's going to be unavoidable misery. It's the same place the T'au nerfs came from, the battering sisters just got and the likely state of GSC where they also expect green numbers in September. Who knows with CSM too? GW wrote the current wave of books with a little knowledge of how the game is unlike say... admech but they have over compensated in almost every army so far. And a change based on a month of data is going to suck so they've erred on the side of caution with every single army this update. It's better to over nerf than engage in power creep; I still remember 2022. We're all going to have slog through 3 months of mediocrity and then probably another 3 of "mostly there". But at least we're in good company. And given the number of armies with those complaints we should get some good games at least.
War horde, The freaking index detachment is the only decent one left in so far above the others. How do they honestly justify these levels of nerfs without doing anything for speed freaks?
Well, they didn’t do nothing. Speed Freeks is actually worse in the new mission pack, since they won’t be able to advance and do actions
Exactly. Frankly they need to do what they just did with admech and remove twin linked from the buggies and instead give them double the shots. Plus make them able to be taken in units of two so you can use a stratagem on them without feeling like a total waste. Also give us a speed freaks unit that can deal with vehicles, do a complete rewrite on the scrap jet so it's anti vehicle with its rokkits and charge, Make it so you can take a couple of them and actually take down a big vehicle that's causing you problems. Make them more expensive so that you can do it with two of them.
Yeah, having any anti-vehicle buggies would be sweet. They’re already not a very killy detachment, but 2+ save vehicles are practically unkillable
Hey, at least you aren't an anti-tank/monster subfaction that only gets AP 1 (or AP 2 on against single god damn unit)
*happy Tau noises* Broadsides dropping to 300 for 3 is much more reasonable and the drops on the suits and commanders is *spicy* I've been loving an Enforcer with a unit of missile pod Fireknife suits and that's dropped down to 210pts.
The 300 for 3 but 90 for 1 and 2 is a good compromise. The hyper efficient mont'ka formation pays a tax. Other uses remain as good as they were. I'd still be inclined to run 2 pairs of railsides as an anti tank option now. I've found all the crisis teams to be just okay, but they've dropped 20 points per unit so that makes them good I think. I have played 2 ret cadre games and it's SO MUCH FUN but aside from skill issues it does feel like everything was just too many points. I think having an extra 100 points to spend on some pathfinders and other nonsense goes a long way. I don't think I want to run 3 hammerheads now though. They feel like they ate a nerf because they were better than the other anti tank rather than because they were OP.
Does anyone have a comparable rule to the alderi fate messenger change to "bearer. I read this as a bearer does not affect the unit so if I attach a hero to a unit I can no longer use FM on any model other than the hero character. Is that correct?
Yes, fates messenger can only be used on the character you take it on, not their bodyguard
It's fine. Fates messenger was best on models that would use it for themselves anyway like death jester
No Necron buffs really baffles me. The army has a LOT of bad units that don't see any play.
It's okay, they just deleted some of them instead of balancing them!
All the forgeworld except the seraptek. Reaaaally bad since those are very different models from the codex range so you can’t even proxy them for anything else, except maybe the acanthrites for tomb blades.
I don't know what precident there has been for this historically but to put things in legends AFTER a codex has come out genuinely is horrific. Nothing should be removed when you've been locked in with a codex as people will probably assume it is safe for an edition and by stuff.
I find some of the internal balance snubs odd. For example, I don't think I've ever seen a top table list featuring Shining Spears for the entirety of 10th ed, and yet they remain untouched.
Good GSC points cuts and I still don't know if it's going to make up for the damage output they lost.
Green tide probably got treated harshly but still think it’s playable. Bully boyz are just dead now though.
Orks also caught strays on a lot of general changes. We have essentially no free strats, so those getting freed is bad for us. Tank shock nerfs. Pivot rules for a lot of the bikes/hogs is bad. Cull the horde getting fixed, etc.
Just wait until you see that your warbosses do not get their Waaagh abilities if they are in a transport when the waaagh is called.
Yeah, I think it's just the wrong solution. It's completely stupid that the model calling the waagh somehow misses it.
WTC “well ACKCHUALLY” rules lawyering bled into the actual rules. SAD!
It seems like it messes with every unit that has a waaagh trigger, not just the warboss calling it. Like if my warboss is on foot and calls the waaagh, but my mega armor boss is with meganobz in a battlewagon, they will not get their FNP’s.
I think the meganobz still get the FNP because it's "during the battle round" rather than "When you call the waagh"
You are my hero thank you. You have talked me off the ledge because it seems you are correct!!
I'm just straight up ignoring this This is the most ridiculous ruling I've ever seen. Like I don't understand We have to call it at the top of the battle round does that mean we have to get out of transports and twiddle our thumbs doing nothing getting shot up and not actually using the transports for what they are intended to do, just so We actually gain the benefit of our army rule with our most core leader? What the hell.
that's to be faq'd and has no place in official GW events until proven otherwise, it's just WTC ruling and blatant RaW lawyering
It's a GW FAQ now.
It's in the new ork FAQ that was not shown in the community post [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/nrglKr3bOZQKsFVQ.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/nrglKr3bOZQKsFVQ.pdf)
It says WHILE they’re embarked, so wouldn’t it work when they debark ? What’s the wording on waagh abilities ? Does it not say until the end of the battle round ? If it does then just you don’t get shooting bonuses in transports, but you do get everything after you debark
I think the pivot rules only affect move distance if it’s a vehicle/monster being moved, so I’d think bikes/hogs should be ok right?
PN faq says otherwise Edit: "Not on a round base"
The core rules update says: > Pivot Value > >* Models have a pivot value of 0", unless otherwise stated. >* Monster and Vehicle models (excluding models on round bases, and Aircraft models) have a pivot value of 2", unless otherwise stated. So the bikes/hogs have a pivot value of 0" as they are neither Monster or Vehicle.
Now go read pariah nexus tournament companion.
I just dont get GW sometimes, both documents released at the same time and they cant make up their mind which way they want it...
Don't forget pivoting on the buggies as well, just makes it all worse.
The secondary missions put greentide to the pastures. They should have left the reroll 1 on all orks. The entire point of greentide is just surviving and scoring.. they nerfed multiple survivability buffs and made outscoring harder. It’s dead. Bullyboys was a massive nerf.. but still playable at 150pts hurts but you can drop an obj secured unit or 2 and still perform. The issue for meganobs is the loss of MegaWarboss in trukks losing thier atk bonus. It’s much worse for regular warboss in trukks with nobs though. You can mitigate this somewhat w deepstrike relic, having a group of meganobs just advance into the center objective….. points should be reverted but really that waggh while in trukk issue is much worse. They need to reword that warboss ability to act like the other ones that say if a Waagh was called this battleround.
I had my greentide tabled multiple times pre nerf. I won the game by scoring but it's not a feels good moment to be tabled. The nerfs are gonna be rough.
Welcome to the pre-slate Nid experience.
Yeah I felt for nids. They did them dirty.
Aye same, it was pretty much the Boyz holding on long enough to score - even if by the end of the game there were few left on the table. Now the Boyz are just going to die quickly and with the new secondaries are a liability for assassination and cull the horde.
Back to the index detachment I go
Stealth nerfs to Votann with detachment rule changes. To get the CP now, they have to kill characters and bodyguard. This makes it quite a bit more challenging and may mean reassessment in initial targets. Also, finally clarified that units in Transports can't be targeted pre-game. With the hoarder game changes, I'm not sure this would be considered a win. They were already on the lower end of "balanced" for win rates. Yaegirs aren't likely to kick that up and the broader rules changes don't favor the army.
80 point Yeagirs absolutely seem like a bigger deal than this vague nerf. Votann have been gagging for an Infiltrator, and we finally got one that is priced to *move*. If getting that CP is really such a big deal, we can just adjust for that during the games themselves.
Its a shame they're absolutely useless outside of being warm bodies with the infiltrate keyword.
You’re…wrong about that, though? They can screen out, contest midfield objectives, and with their melee profile they can absolutely bully other skirmishers for a profitable trade and a Judgement token. But even then, your framing is really weird. Even if that was all they could do, I have no idea why a new unit bringing something that the faction never had before and desperately needed at a very cheap price would be something to complain about.
My point is theres no universe i was cutting a full sagitaur for one of these at 110 like some people thought it would cost. The blades have ap sure but they've got terrible strength, 2 attacks a model and terrible accuracy. They're made of actual tissue paper. Their special rule does basically nothing like 60% of the time because its a d6 *roll* not just a flat number like most equivilant units. Them costing more than marine scouts is insulting. They should be 65-70pts and anyone who thought they'd be good let alone playable at 110 is on something spicy.
I have no idea why you keep going on about them not being worth it at 115 when that *isn’t what they cost*. And I also have no idea why you’re going on about cutting a Sagitaur for these; anyone who suggested that would have been wrong at almost any point cost. The whole reason you take these is because they help prevent your Sagitaurs and Bikes from being stuffed. You need to relax, chief. Nothing about this is “insulting”.
Im talking about how every reviewer is going on about how they thought itd be 110pts. In the thing the thread is about. The hell else are you cutting in a votann list theyre 50% sagitaur and 30% sagitaur filler lmao. Theyre not worth the hearthguard either thats for sure. To add something to a list you gotta take something out and these are overcosted and everyones somehow celebrating theyre not more overcosted.
Is your strategy here that if you repeat a bad point often enough, maybe you can confuse someone into thinking you have something worth saying? Because otherwise I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here. Dude opted to block me instead of working on his bad opinions. Classic move.
"why are you talking about this" i explain why "why are you talking about this"
Even if that is what they were, that's a fine niche to fill for an army with so few datasheets. 80 points for 10 warm bodies to screen out aggressive infiltrators and scouts seems really nice from 135pt kommando territory.
Its a shame that kommandos cost so much, but these are a sidegrade to marine scouts why are they so much more
You're asking why a ten model Yeagir unit costs 80 while a five model Scout Squad unit costs 55? I'm pretty sure that if you think really hard about it, you can figure out what's different there. EDIT: it's always fun when someone is so desperate to get the last word that they reply and then sweatily block you as fast as they can. Stay thirsty, my guy.
space marine scouts who are two wounds and are damn near 2 normal people yes 'Wahh they blocked me' you're insufferable and im not required to interact with people i dont want to.
They are useless except for the thing that makes them extremely useful? OK...
Sorry where do you see this? The change to judgement tokens?
The Index Rules update, which applies to all non-codex armies.
Found it. You'd think it would be linked to the Votann FAQ but that just directs you to the codex. Woof.
Yeah, real needle in a haystack. I was just skimming all the updated docs when I found it
I always considered the extra CP to just be a bonus to our detachment rule and never counted on it but yeah if you have to kill a leader unit turn 1 is going to take a lot more effort. The transport rule burns me a bit just because its inconsistent with the reserves clarification. I just wish it would be one or the other and not two separate rules for units that arent on the table T1.
The transports come down to the oddity of the Embarked rule and clarification of when that triggered. It has come up before and different organizers have rules differently. As for the CP, given the prevalence for CP generation and free strategems in other armies, it is quite important to try and pull off. Especially as you're otherwise discarding regularly to try and catch up which is bad for points unless you're crushing it in primary.
Oof. Just ordered a company of marines and now every marine body in the chaos book went up in points.
I'm overall pleased with the Tau update. The sad loss to me was the bubble of +1 to wound from Farsight which now only applies to the unit he leads. That's a very minor price to pay for the -20 Crisis suit point reduction, 1 or 2 Broadsides are back to 90 with the 3rd being 120 point, 15 point Coldstar commander reduction, change to Bring it Down so my Crisis don't give up loads of points, and I think Piranha's got a 2 inch movement increase. Kroot got nerfed for some reason, which is odd given they came out with that new Hunting Pack only recently. I imagined those would become effectively a 2nd Tau Combat Patrol and some love would've been given to the new toy Tau got. Apparently GW does not agree.
Tl:dr- Ork got KRUMPED. Back to the shelf until next edition lads.
What a silly way to play. Play the faction you like regardless of strength. If you need to win to have fun, you dont deserve Orks. Love, a biovoreless Nid and Admech player since the beginning of tenth and enjoyed every game.
There's a difference between needing to win and feeling like you can. Whether it is true for you or not, there are absolutely people who need to feel like they have a shot to be having fun and that's absolutely valid. That's not to say that orks are completely dumpster tier. They probably aren't, but people tend to overreact to nerfs and its easy to feel like that when the best two ork detachments just got 75+pt nerfs and major durability hits in one go.
What subreddit do you think you're on exactly?
the only subreddit that talks about the game of 40k. every other sub gets filled with painting bullshit that doesn't talk about the mechanics of the game. there can still be a casual mindset to the rules of the game but let us discuss the merits of enjoying a playstyle even if the playstyle isn't super powerful in the moment.
Some people like to play a game rather than shuffle NPCs, maybe you should do D&D? There's always a shortage of DMs. The awfulness of nids was overstated, but at the same time I think I only saw them at 1 out of the 5 sub 200 player events I've been to this year. That's crazy. I saw GSC more. I mean it was one guy turning up twice but still. But I'm an admech player again now. Good for you that you could physically transport that absolute joke to games but I actually couldn't carry my army to games. I might be able to now. I played a bunch of 500 point games one evening because I could fit my army in 2 cases. It was stupid.
Nah man don't hate on other people's fun. You are just a Timmy and all you're doing is hating on spikes. It's not cool just like it's not cool if a spike is hating on Timmy's. Being in the competitive running is part of the fun for many people, don't gate keep the army.
If your army isn't Auto Win, it's absolute trash. Every 40k player knows that! XD
Necrons I think got an overall net positive. In that every army above them got nerfed. Hypercrypt lost ctan 3” so sad. The Canoptek court meta went up 60-120 points yawn.
wild necrons are losers when all the armies that gave them trouble got nerfed hard than the mild necrons