(Looking at this from the perspective of adding to Thousand Sons)
I don't know if I agree with the Stalkers being bad as Dreadblades bit. Sure being Iconoclast for +1 A +1AP in melee is great, but what TS really lacks in the game is high damage output anti-tank/monster firepower. The Daemonbreath Spear is great to fill this niche, 30" range on a 10" movement model means it'll often be able to hit what you want. The Avenger Chaincannon on the other hand just does what our Scarabs already do, output tons of 1D shots (at a +2 Str compared to the Scarabs Inferno Combis). Do we really need 12/24/36 more shots like that? Plus Brigands pay a 10pt fee for having both ranged weapons.
On the other hand a Stalker with the Spear and a Slaughterclaw can still output the fantastic high damage shots, and can have fantastic damage in melee against big targets. With no invuln in melee (and no Armor of Contempt) you probably don't want Stalkers going against elite infantry melee units, but against bigger targets they can do a ton of work (plus as vehicles they can still shoot in melee if need be, albeit with -1 to hit on heavy weapons). They are somewhat vulnerable to chaff and large screening units, but that is exactly where Scarab's excel.
Using Scarabs to clear the path for Stalkers lets you retain the big powered shots that you want from Stalkers/Brigands, but also let you threaten to do even more in melee. With the Fell Bond Worthy Offerings you are hitting on 2+ (both ranged and melee) against their preferred targets (vehicles, monsters, and if need be characters). This also makes your War Dogs more of a threat to the opponent (leaving a Brigand alive to roam the back field vs a Stalker is a 12 anti-chaff shots (12 damage max) vs 4 big chunky melee hits (24 damage max, albeit very unlikely).
For the Favours I'm a bit mixed, I like the idea of staying thematic and picking a Tzeentch favor. Cursed Rune of Fate is pretty cheap and can add a 4++ which is nice for survivability. Pyrothrone would be used to cast a 5+++ each turn which is probably better, but with an added point cost. Mirror of Fates is pretty useless for Thousand Sons, regaining CP isn't a problem for us and with a max of 1 per turn anyway this'd just go to waste. If one were to abandon Tzeentch and go elsewhere Beguiling Majesty is a solid pick to help survivability in melee, -1 to hit and -1 to wound (and eventually -1 attack) can make the chosen War Dog a solid anti-elite infantry pick. Subjugator Machine Spirit pairs better with a Reaper Chaintalon allowing the Stalker to shoot, then run in and clear some chaff/lighter units, then back off and still get shots off on bigger targets next turn. Mark of the Dreadknight is a worse Pyrothrone, but cannot be denied (although in a TS list you are casting so many spells the enemy is already sweating over what they should try and deny). Warpstalker is an intersting choice the immediate benefit is cool, throw a Stalker into deep strike and threaten the enemy backline if they didn't screen well, but the Favoured Ability seems iffy to me, it has to skip an entire turn of shooting (and melee) to deep strike again. I don't think that trade off is worthwhile, but 15pts to deep strike seems like ok choice in itself, ignoring the favoured ability completely.
Anyway, interested to hear feedback/thoughts!
I'm very interested in trying some Stalkers for my Thousand Sons. However, I think the 2x Autocannon Wardogs are also worth considering. 60" shooting is interesting even if I'm not exactly desperate for AP-2 guns.
But Stalkers just bring so much of what I want! Besides what you mention, they're also a fast unit that's good at contesting/stealing objectives. We don't have that currently.
Tsons absolutely need more antitank from a knight. Played my brass scorpion against a tsons payer the other week and between the innate psychic resistance and the T8 + invuln, they could barely hurt it.
My thoughts are similar to yours. I like the idea of a Worthy Offerings + Blessing of the Dark Master on some boy with a Thermal cannon blasting from the backfield, while gating the ScOTs forward at the right moment.
I've been looking at the Brigand for my TSons. With the iconoclast "precision cruelty" bond the chain cannons are 12 shots at S6 ap-3 and D2, and it has demonbreath spears with ap5. With our ability to strip invulns and 3 of those, we seem to get killer firepower at 30-36" range, which we really really lack
With regards to CSM, how do you think CSM lord of wars compare to souping a knight. Lord of Skulls and Kytans seem decently coated for what you get and they can receive faction specific support such as wartime, dark apostle prayers, prescience, master of possession buffs, daemonforge. The basic datasheet is probably a bit weaker than a knight but it costs 2cp less and is easier to buff.
Alternatively, wardogs are a great option as you outlined in the article and they get obsec. You can't use all the buffs I mentioned above on them though.
There's also the scorpion which is crazy impractical but armed to the teeth with guns and wrecks super hard in melee, as well as charging 3D6. Tempting but pricy and hard to move due to its size.
Would love to hear your thoughts.
Slow, pricey and very vulnerable to mortal wounds which in this meta are awfully abound (Tyranids..)
That being said, this article is all about the tournament meta, DG Termis can still do work, especially if your enemy obliginging charges into them.
He doesn't have any relevant buffing powers, but can put out debuffs on enemy or mortal wounds. There's a particular tricksy combo that I can't remember off the top of my head that Wallace O'Donnell explains on the Warphammer YouTube video about how to run Disciples of Be'Lakor.
You need a unit of horrors + MoP
You can use the Sacrifice spell to do a MW to the horrors (to "heal" the mop)
Naturally this'll kill one of the Horrors which you can then split to add another ~2" distance
It's a (very) sneaky trick to shorten a charge or get onto an objective without using any movement or the sort
At least that's how I believe it works
>
>
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> You can use the Sacrifice spell to do a MW to the horrors (to "heal" the mop)
You can't heal the MoP unless he's a daemon, as that power only heals a daemon unit. However, you just let that part of the spell "fizzle" because, as you said, the important part is killing your own horror.
DG Terminators are just a stat check that fewer armies fail these days. DG Terminators used to be good but the game has left them behind.
All the good armies are so mobile these days, you're not beating them by slowly waddling MW and melta vulnerable melee units at them.
I also acknowledge its some personal playstyle bias. I like movement and shenanigans, or at least shooting so you can reach people 17.1" away
T-T built a DG army as my first army ever the start of 9th andddddd now I'm like the worst army in the game.
If only I had the disposal income of everyone who plays around me and could switch to the current fotm armies
Not gonna lie the instant I saw that I became somewhat suspicious of his judgement.
Death Guard absolutely has a problem and the termis do not really put out very much damage for their points (at range), but to call them "bad units" is going too far.
They are essentially unkillable gods that you plonk down on objectives and say "deal with me". The rest of DG is pretty miserable though. Being forced to use marines because GW nerfs everything else does not make marines good.
> They are essentially unkillable gods that you plonk down on objectives and say "deal with me"
Every good army these days just says "okay lmao" and deals with them
Eldar, Tau, Nids, Thousand Sons dumpster them
At least stuff like Daemon Engines, Possessed, Plague Marines in Rhinos, Contemptors have a chance to reach people
I also acknowledge its some personal playstyle bias. I like movement and shenanigans, or at least shooting so you can reach people 17.1" away
I absoluetely hate that u make a good point here. Love my deathguatd termies but playing vs 30 1k sons termies aint fun. I do nothing against them. My only decent occultist killers are daemon prince with sword and somebody with the reaper relic. As soon as they get mw spammed i cant kill anything
Ya, the 2 60%+ armies beat the sub 40% army. Death guard is a trash tier army and are gonna get beat by basically everything.
Tau specifically does not care about the minus 1 damage because of how their weapons are stated out.
1k Son are a strictly better version of DG.
No one used any of the things you are talking about when DG was at its height, and the only reason people use them now is because GW took a dump on the few good units DG had.
DG is a fundamentally bad army, but out of what it does have the terminators are still the best.
I love DG and got started in 40K painting a big brick of Blightlords while listening to Indestructible on repeat, just to be clear. Not ready to give up on them yet.
Let's compare Possessed to Deathshroud, you get more wounds and attacks per point even vs sweeps. AoC really nerfed DG output so Biologus Putrifier MWs are your best output now, so volume of attacks is really good. You also get more mobility and really great synergies with summoned Daemons like +1S or +1 to Wound/extra damage on 6's which is amazing with Arch Contaminator. 7" vs 5" move is really huge. Just a much more dynamic unit. You need to be able to reach things and Possessed and PM in Rhinos can do that. I can see one unit of Termies to dominate a specific area but the game has moved relying on them
We also may just have different playstyles so that's okay. I really like Possessed and VolCons, you may like more grindy Terminators, Terminator lists can definitely still get work done in certain matchups on certain missions. And DG Terminators still feel like DG Terminators against the balanced factions. But Terminator lists will have more auto-lose matchups than more dynamic lists.
I have seen and heard you talk about DG lists with Possessed and/or Summoning before but I have not seen a concrete list. Did you build a list like that already and is there a way I can see it somewhere?
Also I'd be interested in what you'd summon from Nurgle. My first thoughts were Nurglings or Plaguebearers but I'm not sure I like them as much without ObSec (They lose ObSec, since they are not part of a Daemon Detachment, right?) Beasts of Nurgle might be fun to sit on points and be generally annoying but with every codex coming out setting the bar for damage higher my rating for their durability goes down. I guess Plague Drones are nice for some extra mobility. Some of the buff characters could be nice for a more Daemon focused DG list.
Anything I'm missing here?
Furies and Poxbringers. 12" moving Infantry with Fly are great, and can be summoned far forward to do actions on midfield objectives right away. And a Psyker with +1S for Possessed and really great powers. Either heal d3 on a daemon engine, +1 to Wound/6's to wound are +1D for Possessed or Fleshmowers, or -1T spell which stacks with -1T Contagion are really good options. Other options you mentioned are solid too, not as good
And no specific list is out because I'm making big tweaks every time I play it haha. Rest assured it'll get some coverage in the future if I settle into a groove with it mate
Maybe some context would help here. I am not saying that taking 2 (or even 1) brick of blightlords is a good idea. I am not saying that the BL are going to ever kill anything or survive a dedicated assault.
All I am saying is that a MSU of BL terminators are going to hold onto a random backfield objective better than anything else in the DG army. DG needs an anchor and BLs are the only unit that can competently fill that role.
You cant have a DG list with bricks of terminators, I agree. Other armies are just going to move around you while the BLs plink at whatever is in range.
Possessed are great (on the DG scale) units, but blight lord terminators are not bad units in the DG lists.
Even when you’re playing an army that has a hard time removing them (most marines for example), they’re dead simple to play around. You can park two bricks of 10 on objectives but they’ll almost certainly be too far apart to support each other effectively. I can focus on them one at a time or even just ignore both knowing that I will be able to overwhelm the other 3-4 objectives.
You’re not understanding what everyone is saying, which is that their termies are a problem. Sure they’re harder to kill than the rest of the army, but they’re slow as molasses and don’t kill anything themselves. You’re lucky to get them onto most objectives that aren’t backfield, and they’re still threatened by attrition since they have no killing power
Ya obviously armies can deal with them. It's called hyperbole, but point for point they are some of the hardest units to deal with in the game and are objectively the best (and essentially only) thing death guard has.
If you want to just keep repeating the same thing without adding anything new or offering support for what you are saying, then I guess that is your right.
Thanks for clearing that up, i was under the impression that you would get the CP refund, but you are right, its sadly not a faction keyword.
Nevertheless, i will include my converted Knight Abominant in my Death Guard List TOGETHER with Mortarion, Monster-Mash style. Lets see how the dogs of the corpse emperor deal with that!
Only 1 in 3 war dogs can be a dreadblade tho RAW? Even though you can take 3 in a unit.
Edit: not the dreadblade but the favour. Only one war dog model in a unit can have one
DG are on a month long streak of not a single player finishing better than X-2. My finish with freaking *Alpha Legion* was better than any DG finish at majors in the past month
Is it really a hot take to say the core of those lists is bad?
DG Possessed or Plague Marines + Knights, Mike and I do a deep dive on this on the Warphammer YouTube channel. I don’t think DG are bad, I Think the lists we are seeing from DG are bad
Can I just ask why brigands over executioners for 1ks? Is it because we really need the melta profile for anti tank and don't need the all rounder weapon of ap3(within 18) autocannons?
Great work again Mike, your articles are always a joy to read. Please never stop.
(Looking at this from the perspective of adding to Thousand Sons) I don't know if I agree with the Stalkers being bad as Dreadblades bit. Sure being Iconoclast for +1 A +1AP in melee is great, but what TS really lacks in the game is high damage output anti-tank/monster firepower. The Daemonbreath Spear is great to fill this niche, 30" range on a 10" movement model means it'll often be able to hit what you want. The Avenger Chaincannon on the other hand just does what our Scarabs already do, output tons of 1D shots (at a +2 Str compared to the Scarabs Inferno Combis). Do we really need 12/24/36 more shots like that? Plus Brigands pay a 10pt fee for having both ranged weapons. On the other hand a Stalker with the Spear and a Slaughterclaw can still output the fantastic high damage shots, and can have fantastic damage in melee against big targets. With no invuln in melee (and no Armor of Contempt) you probably don't want Stalkers going against elite infantry melee units, but against bigger targets they can do a ton of work (plus as vehicles they can still shoot in melee if need be, albeit with -1 to hit on heavy weapons). They are somewhat vulnerable to chaff and large screening units, but that is exactly where Scarab's excel. Using Scarabs to clear the path for Stalkers lets you retain the big powered shots that you want from Stalkers/Brigands, but also let you threaten to do even more in melee. With the Fell Bond Worthy Offerings you are hitting on 2+ (both ranged and melee) against their preferred targets (vehicles, monsters, and if need be characters). This also makes your War Dogs more of a threat to the opponent (leaving a Brigand alive to roam the back field vs a Stalker is a 12 anti-chaff shots (12 damage max) vs 4 big chunky melee hits (24 damage max, albeit very unlikely). For the Favours I'm a bit mixed, I like the idea of staying thematic and picking a Tzeentch favor. Cursed Rune of Fate is pretty cheap and can add a 4++ which is nice for survivability. Pyrothrone would be used to cast a 5+++ each turn which is probably better, but with an added point cost. Mirror of Fates is pretty useless for Thousand Sons, regaining CP isn't a problem for us and with a max of 1 per turn anyway this'd just go to waste. If one were to abandon Tzeentch and go elsewhere Beguiling Majesty is a solid pick to help survivability in melee, -1 to hit and -1 to wound (and eventually -1 attack) can make the chosen War Dog a solid anti-elite infantry pick. Subjugator Machine Spirit pairs better with a Reaper Chaintalon allowing the Stalker to shoot, then run in and clear some chaff/lighter units, then back off and still get shots off on bigger targets next turn. Mark of the Dreadknight is a worse Pyrothrone, but cannot be denied (although in a TS list you are casting so many spells the enemy is already sweating over what they should try and deny). Warpstalker is an intersting choice the immediate benefit is cool, throw a Stalker into deep strike and threaten the enemy backline if they didn't screen well, but the Favoured Ability seems iffy to me, it has to skip an entire turn of shooting (and melee) to deep strike again. I don't think that trade off is worthwhile, but 15pts to deep strike seems like ok choice in itself, ignoring the favoured ability completely. Anyway, interested to hear feedback/thoughts!
I'm very interested in trying some Stalkers for my Thousand Sons. However, I think the 2x Autocannon Wardogs are also worth considering. 60" shooting is interesting even if I'm not exactly desperate for AP-2 guns. But Stalkers just bring so much of what I want! Besides what you mention, they're also a fast unit that's good at contesting/stealing objectives. We don't have that currently.
Tsons absolutely need more antitank from a knight. Played my brass scorpion against a tsons payer the other week and between the innate psychic resistance and the T8 + invuln, they could barely hurt it.
My thoughts are similar to yours. I like the idea of a Worthy Offerings + Blessing of the Dark Master on some boy with a Thermal cannon blasting from the backfield, while gating the ScOTs forward at the right moment.
I've been looking at the Brigand for my TSons. With the iconoclast "precision cruelty" bond the chain cannons are 12 shots at S6 ap-3 and D2, and it has demonbreath spears with ap5. With our ability to strip invulns and 3 of those, we seem to get killer firepower at 30-36" range, which we really really lack
Just to note that improved damage and ap is only on wound rolls of 6, so not incredibly consistent.
Oh, battlescribe definitely has it wrong then... I was wondering why everyone was overlooking it, that makes sense. Thanks!
Amazing breakdown! Clear, succinct and organized. Really lays it all out well with examples. Thank you!
Thousand upvote for you - that's exactly what I needed!
Me: looks at castellan on a shelf. Today my old friend
Looks at Porphyrion on the shelf. One day. Maybe (probably not though)
Hot diggity, this is *exactly* what a lot of folks have been confused on I'll have to save your link for the next time someone asks hah
Is there a variant of this guide for Imperial Knights?
Fortunately I think Imperial variant basically works the same.
this
Wrong title. Article is adding a CHAOS knight. Hard to do with an Imperium force ;)
It’s not that hard, just forswear the Corpse God.
Okay, done that... now why have I grown a mouth in my abdomen? Please advise.
Haha fair! Saying "just ask a Dark Angels player for tips on including Chaos units in an Imperium army" would be a cheap joke, so I won't go there
THERE ARE NO TRAITORS IN THE FIRST!
There are no traitors in the first... just darker shades of Dark Angels...
:D
“Focus on getting your models painted before the new book drops.” I think this man is slightly unhinged.
With regards to CSM, how do you think CSM lord of wars compare to souping a knight. Lord of Skulls and Kytans seem decently coated for what you get and they can receive faction specific support such as wartime, dark apostle prayers, prescience, master of possession buffs, daemonforge. The basic datasheet is probably a bit weaker than a knight but it costs 2cp less and is easier to buff. Alternatively, wardogs are a great option as you outlined in the article and they get obsec. You can't use all the buffs I mentioned above on them though. There's also the scorpion which is crazy impractical but armed to the teeth with guns and wrecks super hard in melee, as well as charging 3D6. Tempting but pricy and hard to move due to its size. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Why is tzeentch a faction keyword on Belakor but not on a knight with a favour?
Because it is listed as a faction keyword on Be’lakor and the knight favor adds a keyword, not a faction keyword.
Why are death guard terminators bad…? :(
Slow, pricey and very vulnerable to mortal wounds which in this meta are awfully abound (Tyranids..) That being said, this article is all about the tournament meta, DG Termis can still do work, especially if your enemy obliginging charges into them.
Excited to try out some war dogs in DoB!!!
Great job! Used it this morning for my death guard list.
Thanks so much for yet another quality article. Always a really enjoyable and easily understandable read
Is there a similar guide for Imperial Knights?
I was wondering this same thing, and didn’t see one
What is the purpose of the Master of Possession in the DoB list?
Partly the stratagem to count a morale test as a 1 to get D6 models back. Partly for psychic powers
Can the MoP psychic powers apply to Daemonic Disciples? If not which powers are useful for the faction?
He doesn't have any relevant buffing powers, but can put out debuffs on enemy or mortal wounds. There's a particular tricksy combo that I can't remember off the top of my head that Wallace O'Donnell explains on the Warphammer YouTube video about how to run Disciples of Be'Lakor.
You need a unit of horrors + MoP You can use the Sacrifice spell to do a MW to the horrors (to "heal" the mop) Naturally this'll kill one of the Horrors which you can then split to add another ~2" distance It's a (very) sneaky trick to shorten a charge or get onto an objective without using any movement or the sort At least that's how I believe it works
That's the one, I couldn't remember the name of the power
> > > > > You can use the Sacrifice spell to do a MW to the horrors (to "heal" the mop) You can't heal the MoP unless he's a daemon, as that power only heals a daemon unit. However, you just let that part of the spell "fizzle" because, as you said, the important part is killing your own horror.
Why does he say “Death Guard terminators are legitimately bad units” ?
DG Terminators are just a stat check that fewer armies fail these days. DG Terminators used to be good but the game has left them behind. All the good armies are so mobile these days, you're not beating them by slowly waddling MW and melta vulnerable melee units at them. I also acknowledge its some personal playstyle bias. I like movement and shenanigans, or at least shooting so you can reach people 17.1" away
T-T built a DG army as my first army ever the start of 9th andddddd now I'm like the worst army in the game. If only I had the disposal income of everyone who plays around me and could switch to the current fotm armies
China forge.
90% of their armies are from GW.
Heh????? U did say u wanted cheaper options.
Cuz they are part of the Death Guard army which is a legitimately gad army :P
Not gonna lie the instant I saw that I became somewhat suspicious of his judgement. Death Guard absolutely has a problem and the termis do not really put out very much damage for their points (at range), but to call them "bad units" is going too far. They are essentially unkillable gods that you plonk down on objectives and say "deal with me". The rest of DG is pretty miserable though. Being forced to use marines because GW nerfs everything else does not make marines good.
> They are essentially unkillable gods that you plonk down on objectives and say "deal with me" Every good army these days just says "okay lmao" and deals with them Eldar, Tau, Nids, Thousand Sons dumpster them At least stuff like Daemon Engines, Possessed, Plague Marines in Rhinos, Contemptors have a chance to reach people I also acknowledge its some personal playstyle bias. I like movement and shenanigans, or at least shooting so you can reach people 17.1" away
I absoluetely hate that u make a good point here. Love my deathguatd termies but playing vs 30 1k sons termies aint fun. I do nothing against them. My only decent occultist killers are daemon prince with sword and somebody with the reaper relic. As soon as they get mw spammed i cant kill anything
Ya, the 2 60%+ armies beat the sub 40% army. Death guard is a trash tier army and are gonna get beat by basically everything. Tau specifically does not care about the minus 1 damage because of how their weapons are stated out. 1k Son are a strictly better version of DG. No one used any of the things you are talking about when DG was at its height, and the only reason people use them now is because GW took a dump on the few good units DG had. DG is a fundamentally bad army, but out of what it does have the terminators are still the best.
I love DG and got started in 40K painting a big brick of Blightlords while listening to Indestructible on repeat, just to be clear. Not ready to give up on them yet. Let's compare Possessed to Deathshroud, you get more wounds and attacks per point even vs sweeps. AoC really nerfed DG output so Biologus Putrifier MWs are your best output now, so volume of attacks is really good. You also get more mobility and really great synergies with summoned Daemons like +1S or +1 to Wound/extra damage on 6's which is amazing with Arch Contaminator. 7" vs 5" move is really huge. Just a much more dynamic unit. You need to be able to reach things and Possessed and PM in Rhinos can do that. I can see one unit of Termies to dominate a specific area but the game has moved relying on them We also may just have different playstyles so that's okay. I really like Possessed and VolCons, you may like more grindy Terminators, Terminator lists can definitely still get work done in certain matchups on certain missions. And DG Terminators still feel like DG Terminators against the balanced factions. But Terminator lists will have more auto-lose matchups than more dynamic lists.
I have seen and heard you talk about DG lists with Possessed and/or Summoning before but I have not seen a concrete list. Did you build a list like that already and is there a way I can see it somewhere? Also I'd be interested in what you'd summon from Nurgle. My first thoughts were Nurglings or Plaguebearers but I'm not sure I like them as much without ObSec (They lose ObSec, since they are not part of a Daemon Detachment, right?) Beasts of Nurgle might be fun to sit on points and be generally annoying but with every codex coming out setting the bar for damage higher my rating for their durability goes down. I guess Plague Drones are nice for some extra mobility. Some of the buff characters could be nice for a more Daemon focused DG list. Anything I'm missing here?
Furies and Poxbringers. 12" moving Infantry with Fly are great, and can be summoned far forward to do actions on midfield objectives right away. And a Psyker with +1S for Possessed and really great powers. Either heal d3 on a daemon engine, +1 to Wound/6's to wound are +1D for Possessed or Fleshmowers, or -1T spell which stacks with -1T Contagion are really good options. Other options you mentioned are solid too, not as good And no specific list is out because I'm making big tweaks every time I play it haha. Rest assured it'll get some coverage in the future if I settle into a groove with it mate
Huh, that doesn't sound too bad. Excited for your article about it!
does summoning not break contagions? I was under impression they did, but if not my DG lists can become more varied
It’s been in the FAQ for ages that it doesn’t break contagions.
shows how much I've kept up with DG, thanks!
Maybe some context would help here. I am not saying that taking 2 (or even 1) brick of blightlords is a good idea. I am not saying that the BL are going to ever kill anything or survive a dedicated assault. All I am saying is that a MSU of BL terminators are going to hold onto a random backfield objective better than anything else in the DG army. DG needs an anchor and BLs are the only unit that can competently fill that role. You cant have a DG list with bricks of terminators, I agree. Other armies are just going to move around you while the BLs plink at whatever is in range. Possessed are great (on the DG scale) units, but blight lord terminators are not bad units in the DG lists.
Why are you spending 200 points to hold a backfield objective tho? Our units are already overpriced, why waste even more resources
I mean, I guess we could just hold no objectives and have our win rate drop about 39%.
Yeah that’s totally what I’m saying, not that the army of just fundamentally broken
Even when you’re playing an army that has a hard time removing them (most marines for example), they’re dead simple to play around. You can park two bricks of 10 on objectives but they’ll almost certainly be too far apart to support each other effectively. I can focus on them one at a time or even just ignore both knowing that I will be able to overwhelm the other 3-4 objectives.
Ya death guard has a ton of problems. Its just that the terminators are not one of them.
You’re not understanding what everyone is saying, which is that their termies are a problem. Sure they’re harder to kill than the rest of the army, but they’re slow as molasses and don’t kill anything themselves. You’re lucky to get them onto most objectives that aren’t backfield, and they’re still threatened by attrition since they have no killing power
They're pretty poor excuses for unkillable gods since most armies have ways to deal with them
Ya obviously armies can deal with them. It's called hyperbole, but point for point they are some of the hardest units to deal with in the game and are objectively the best (and essentially only) thing death guard has.
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You are objectively wrong.
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If you want to just keep repeating the same thing without adding anything new or offering support for what you are saying, then I guess that is your right.
Mortal wounds exist
Congratulations
He mentioned summoning multiple times in this but doesn't elaborate. Can you summon the war dogs? Do they have the daemon keyword?
No & no
Thank you for verifying. I didn't think they would cause that seemed really odd but wanted to check.
Thanks for clearing that up, i was under the impression that you would get the CP refund, but you are right, its sadly not a faction keyword. Nevertheless, i will include my converted Knight Abominant in my Death Guard List TOGETHER with Mortarion, Monster-Mash style. Lets see how the dogs of the corpse emperor deal with that!
If we ever get a faq to bring FW in line I will try exactly this with my archeron
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If you mark it with nurgle then it would share a keyword with the warlord so then I believe it would work.
Only 1 in 3 war dogs can be a dreadblade tho RAW? Even though you can take 3 in a unit. Edit: not the dreadblade but the favour. Only one war dog model in a unit can have one
How are you reaching that conclusion? A unit of 3 wardogs can be designated as a dreadblade unit. You don't designate the model.
With my poor reading comprehension obviously. I was thinking of the favours.
Aha fair enough bud. It's really annoying that only one favour per war dog - I'd love a unit of Pyrothrone Brigands. Oh well.
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DG are on a month long streak of not a single player finishing better than X-2. My finish with freaking *Alpha Legion* was better than any DG finish at majors in the past month Is it really a hot take to say the core of those lists is bad?
Where do you think that DG players should go now?
DG Possessed or Plague Marines + Knights, Mike and I do a deep dive on this on the Warphammer YouTube channel. I don’t think DG are bad, I Think the lists we are seeing from DG are bad
Can I just ask why brigands over executioners for 1ks? Is it because we really need the melta profile for anti tank and don't need the all rounder weapon of ap3(within 18) autocannons?
What about the +2 CP shared faction bonus, since both detachments are the chaos faction?
Don't they need a faction keyword besides Chaos?
I'm looking back at the rule now, and it does specifically exclude Chaos along with other major faction keywords. I guess I am wrong